Serious question, are the Lakers going to be better with Kobe gone?

[tgan3]

These are my reasons:

1) Gasol and Howard have more touches. With kobe gone, both of them have to step up offensively. Seeing both make 20 ppg each is not unrealistic.

2) Nash would be able to handle the ball most of the times (Instead of Kobe) which we know is his most effective game as he can easily deliver good looks for the big men.

3) The spirit of the team gets stronger. We have seen it with Kevin Ware and the Louisville team, one ugly injury and it spirited the team to win the national championship just to honor the fallen teammate. Now we have Kobe with a full blown achilles tendon and a video of him crying in the press conference. Im not saying the Lakers will win it all, but maybe they make a deep run for their fallen hero..

[#number6ix#]

Nope

[AngelEyes]

Nah

[Uncle Drew]

Yes, Blake going HAM.

[Orlando Magic]

You're going to get ripped so hard by most of this board for posing that question... but it's something I've wondered about myself.

Their biggest problem is, imo, despite the fact that he's an overrated closer, now who do they go to down the stretch?

Who do they have that's going to create their own shot with the game on the line? They don't have anyone like that anymore.

[bukowski81]

You're going to get ripped so hard by most of this board for posing that question... but it's something I've wondered about myself.

Their biggest problem is, imo, despite the fact that he's an overrated closer, now who do they go to down the stretch?

Who do they have that's going to create their own shot with the game on the line? They don't have anyone like that anymore.

Steve Blake

[DFish24]

Absolutely they will be. It already obvious from the first half of the game that Kobe was holding them back.

[Xiao Yao You]

Could be. They've still got big issues besides Kobe's selfishness.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Kobe is like the selfish, abusive, naricistic boss or father, keeps everyone else down so he can look taller, once hes gone the rest of the office or family grows.

"Laker" fans dont ever call him out tho. Bc theyre not Laker fans, theyre submissive worshippers of Cult Leader Kobe

[Cali Syndicate]

Didn't the Lakers sign Goldilocks? Can't forget about that x-factor.

[Andrew Wiggins]

kobe fans will get their panties in a bunch, but in my opinion, yes.

- better ball movement
- less reliance on one player to bail them out
- more shots to go around usually equals more effort on defense
- offense run through the post with two of the best bigs in the game
- less matador defense at the 2 spot

[OldSkoolball#52]

Watch how media spins it: "Theyre doing it for kobe", "kobe is teaching them from the bench how to win", "kobe has set them up perfectly and now they need to spread their wings and fly"

It will still be all about Kobe. Somehow Kobe himself will make sure of that. He'll prob shoot baskets from a wheelchair for an hour after the game

[Fiz411]

maybe. but it won't make those 3 any younger.

[LosScandalous]

Lakers are playing inspired defense tonight but nobody can create any real offense without spaghetti falling all over the court

[BlackVVaves]

These are my reasons:

1) Gasol and Howard have more touches. With kobe gone, both of them have to step up offensively. Seeing both make 20 ppg each is not unrealistic.

2) Nash would be able to handle the ball most of the times (Instead of Kobe) which we know is his most effective game as he can easily deliver good looks for the big men.

3) The spirit of the team gets stronger. We have seen it with Kevin Ware and the Louisville team, one ugly injury and it spirited the team to win the national championship just to honor the fallen teammate. Now we have Kobe with a full blown achilles tendon and a video of him crying in the press conference. Im not saying the Lakers will win it all, but maybe they make a deep run for their fallen hero..

Are you watching the Lakers-Spurs game right now?

[D.J.]

Short-term, yes. Long-term, absolutely not.

[OJ SIMPSON 2.0]

G.

[TonyMontana]

Yep. Their hanging with the Spurs.

If Kobe was playing they'd be down by double digits and Kobes field goal percentage would be >45%.

The Lakers have never been about Kobe. Their only going as far as Dwight Howard can take them and without Kobe hogging the ball they can actually run their offense through the correct player. Kobe is an old inefficient chucker at this point.

[chazzy]

This myth that Kobe is holding down their offense is hilarious.

[LosScandalous]

Lakers lose 27 ppg and you can see it so far in todays game

[dh144498]

it takes an off-game Duncan and a 1-10 FG Tony Parker for Lakers to hang in there with the Spurs without Kobe. :oldlol:

Lakers shooting 34%......

Yeah Kobe definitely is a team cancer..... :rolleyes:

:coleman:

[OldSkoolball#52]

This myth that Kobe is holding down their offense is hilarious.
Be honest. You want them to fail right now. Kobes rep is more important to you than the Lakers success without him.

[OldSkoolball#52]

it takes an off-game Duncan and a 1-10 FG Tony Parker for Lakers to hang in there with the Spurs without Kobe. :oldlol:

Lakers shooting 34%......

Yeah Kobe definitely is a team cancer..... :rolleyes:

:coleman:


:lol

[tazb]

Yes.

[ripthekik]

Yes.
should have stayed banned.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Laker fans are pisssssssed at the team for winning without KoMe :applause:

[chazzy]

Be honest. You want them to fail right now. Kobes rep is more important to you than the Lakers success without him.
Not at all, dumbass. Who are you? :oldlol:

[ripthekik]

Laker fans are pisssssssed at the team for winning without KoMe :applause:
I dont see anyone pissed.

Who's alt is this? 100% One of the banned dumbasses the last few days. Trying too hard, son.

[Electric Slide]

They will be better in certain aspects like ball-movement and defense but overall losing Kobe is a negative.

One poster actually said it best. They are better for the short-term but not long-term.

[OldSkoolball#52]

They will be better in certain aspects like ball-movement and defense but overall losing Kobe is a negative.

One poster actually said it best. They are better for the short-term but not long-term.


Makes no sense. Ball movement and defense are pretty good long term ideas.

This is basically like the Nuggets getting slightly better when they dumped their overrated one-dimensional ballhog who was the hero of the dumb fans. Same will happen with Lakers/KoMe.

Melos well-rounded and beastly now, but at the time it was the same principle.

[DonDadda59]

Coachbe with a 3-1 record this season (counting the game he 'played' against IND) and 8-3 overall the past 2 seasons. Watch out D'Antoni, Lakers might've found your replacement :applause:

[Sharmer]

These are my reasons:

1) Gasol and Howard have more touches. With kobe gone, both of them have to step up offensively. Seeing both make 20 ppg each is not unrealistic.

2) Nash would be able to handle the ball most of the times (Instead of Kobe) which we know is his most effective game as he can easily deliver good looks for the big men.

3) The spirit of the team gets stronger. We have seen it with Kevin Ware and the Louisville team, one ugly injury and it spirited the team to win the national championship just to honor the fallen teammate. Now we have Kobe with a full blown achilles tendon and a video of him crying in the press conference. Im not saying the Lakers will win it all, but maybe they make a deep run for their fallen hero..


Much better without him.

Now they have to run their offense through two 7 footers.

This is a much better method for success than having Kobe take so many shots.

[chazzy]

Much better without him.

Now they have to run their offense through two 7 footers.

This is a much better method for success than having Kobe take so many shots.
Laker offense was like a well oiled machine tonight, beautiful stuff

[miles berg]

Can't answer this question without seeing Nash in there with Dwight, Gasol, Artest, Meeks, Clark, & Blake.

Could be a very potent team.

[Mrofir]

it takes an off-game Duncan and a 1-10 FG Tony Parker for Lakers to hang in there with the Spurs without Kobe. :oldlol:


And Gasol went 3-17 from the field. They played a basketball game and the Lakers won. That's what happened.

[Sharmer]

And Gasol went 3-17 from the field. They played a basketball game and the Lakers won. That's what happened.

But Dwight was there for the put backs when Gasol went for 3/17.

With Kobe having the lane cleared and taking fade away shots, Dwight is not there for offense rebounds or put backs.

[Heavincent]

When your best player is out, you get significantly worse.

It's really simple stuff, but apparently a few of you need it to be explained.

[disel]

Considering Dwight>choke when used with a right method.

[Sharmer]

When your best player is out, you get significantly worse.

It's really simple stuff, but apparently a few of you need it to be explained.

Have you even watched Kobe defense this year, its pathetic.

[PickernRoller]

But Dwight was there for the put backs when Gasol went for 3/17.

With Kobe having the lane cleared and taking fade away shots, Dwight is not there for offense rebounds or put backs.

Actually that's most of the way Dwight gets his points - putbacks, and easy lobs - regardless of who's on the floor.

Son, why try so hard. It's a lost cause. :lol :lol

[BlackVVaves]

Yep. Their hanging with the Spurs.

If Kobe was playing they'd be down by double digits and Kobes field goal percentage would be >45%.

The Lakers have never been about Kobe. Their only going as far as Dwight Howard can take them and without Kobe hogging the ball they can actually run their offense through the correct player. Kobe is an old inefficient chucker at this point.

Should I pull out some stats for you, or just reduce my post to a plethora of terms that highlight your distinct idiocy as a poster?

And you've been here for less than a month. Good god.

[outbreak]

Kobe has been great this year but his style hasn't worked well with Howard. Personally I think they may actually be a bit better with out Kobe and running through Howard and Gasol. This isn't a knock on Kobe, he's a great player, but I just think they haven't geled right and so neither has been performing to the best that they could.

[Sharmer]

Of course their going to be better going through Dwight and Gasol. Basketball 101, don't run your offense through jump shooters.

[Mrofir]

my official answer to the thread question:

This season, and right now, the Lakers are better without Kobe.

In the grand scheme, the team can never reach its full potential without Kobe.

But it's gotta be a Kobe that figures out how to maximize the potential of his teammates, not the one from this season. I've said it for a while now and I'll keep saying it. I always thought he would come back next season as a different player and figure out how to mesh better. If he's such a great coach and tactician the least he could do is figure out how to fit into this team.

[PickernRoller]

Should I pull out some stats for you, or just reduce my post to a plethora of terms that highlight your distinct idiocy as a poster?

And you've been here for less than a month. Good god.

Prob an alt. Like most anyway - no need for proof when it's the same rhetoric repeated a 1000 times.

As for this thread - Simply NO. A bunch of hypotheticals, a bunch of speculation, a bunch of nothing. The thread ask if the team is better or not - not full potential or half potential or ultimate goal BS.

The system and coaching is horrible - the injuries plagued the team + some pieces are just a bad fit/not what the team needs. Not necessarily a Dwight and Kobe meshing issue. Look how well Pau and Kobe meshed the last few games of the season + the Kobe, Pau, Dwight connection. They just got their shit together and forget whatever D'Antoni was preaching. D'Antoni himself admitted the system was messed up.

Not necessarily all teams tank and perform horrible when their stars go down or rest. Proof of that is everywhere - if you can't find it then f'ck yourself for being a moron.

[Sharmer]

Kupchak should use the amnesty clause with Kobe.

He's done anyway.

[BlackVVaves]

Can't answer this question without seeing Nash in there with Dwight, Gasol, Artest, Meeks, Clark, & Blake.

Could be a very potent team.

This. Somewhat...

Can't determine what the team will be like without Kobe until Nash returns .

The problem is this. The Lakers are noticeably better defensively these last two weeks without Nash. So, his addition will likely impact them negatively on that side of the ball, and will result in Dwight getting in foul trouble early in games again because he (and Kobe) couldn't stay in front of quick, driving guards.

Also, you have to account for D'Antoni being a stubborn mule. Nash returning may mean that he will revert to PHX ball, trying to pick and roll with Nash and run and gun, instead of slowing down the game and utilizing the bigs. That will also negatively impact the team.

So, really, there are several variables involved with just one piece being added to the equation. But, in general, losing Kobe will hurt the Lakers offensively (as evident in the game tonight).

[Mrofir]

Of course their going to be better going through Dwight and Gasol. Basketball 101, don't run your offense through jump shooters.


after so many lakers fans blaming d'antoni for not running the offense through the big guys, will be interesting to see the rest of the way..

somehow I doubt we're going to see meeks and glock shooting combined 30fga a game in the d'antoni system.

[K]

When your best player is out, you get significantly worse.

It's really simple stuff, but apparently a few of you need it to be explained.

No, you're just a simpleton. According to you, what is "significantly worse". All the evidence in the last few seasons indicates that the Lakers do not get "significantly worse" when he's out.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Kupchak should use the amnesty clause with Kobe.

He's done anyway.


This is a fact. But it will be trumped by sentiment, and will not happen. Even tho from a pure success standpoint it should.

Irony is, the fans love to idealize kobe as a ruthless killer instinct warrior assasin who would shoot his own dog to get an extra 2 ppg. But these idiot fans are too subservient to him to do whats in their own teams interest at his expense.

He really is like a cult leader, and his flock of stans are too dumb, gullible, and insecure to stand up to him. He owns their little pea brains with his exaggerated and mythical reputation.

[Goldrush25]

That's an overly simplistic question. There's no way they can be "better." The Lakers' ceiling is lower because you can't replace that kind of talent. They can't win a championship, but I didn't think they could even with Kobe.


But I disagree with anyone who says that they can't make some noise and make a run at the WCF. I seriously think they could upset the SAS/OKC in the first round, or push them to a game 7. There's not a ton of gametape on this version of the Lakers, so I think their first playoff opponent is going to have their hands full, JMO.

[chazzy]

Lakers had the top 6-8 offense all year with Nash and Pau missing significant time and Dwight not looking like himself at all for large portions of the season. Let that sink in. Unless you think Meeks is a significantly better defender... :oldlol:

[Shepseskaf]

The playoffs just got a lot more interesting. What can this team do without Kobe?

A championship is doubtful, but if they make some real noise it will make for some interesting reflections.

[Heavincent]

I didn't know the Lakers winning a couple of games without Kobe made the trolls so happy. After so many years of built up frustration, they take what they can get I guess.

[Sharmer]

This is a fact. But it will be trumped by sentiment, and will not happen. Even tho from a pure success standpoint it should.

Irony is, the fans love to idealize kobe as a ruthless killer instinct warrior assasin who would shoot his own dog to get an extra 2 ppg. But these idiot fans are too subservient to him to do whats in their own teams interest at his expense.

He really is like a cult leader, and his flock of stans are too dumb, gullible, and insecure to stand up to him. He owns their little pea brains with his exaggerated and mythical reputation.

I understand that he is a mythical figure- most of his achievements when put into context have been as a result of help by Shaq, Bynum, or Gasol.

Still a good opportunity for the Lakers to get rid of this cancer.

[Mrofir]

I didn't know the Lakers winning a couple of games without Kobe made the trolls so happy. After so many years of built up frustration, they take what they can get I guess.


I don't see many kobe haters in here. If you're saying I'm a troll cause I think it's interesting to see what LA can do without Kobe, because I think the role team chemistry plays in W-L is interesting, because I'm a basketball fan wondering what's gonna happen, I think that makes you the troll.

[black&scholes]

I didn't know the Lakers winning a couple of games without Kobe made the trolls so happy. After so many years of built up frustration, they take what they can get I guess.

hi f@gget

[Heavincent]

I don't see many kobe haters in here. If you're saying I'm a troll cause I think it's interesting to see what LA can do without Kobe, because I think the role team chemistry plays in W-L is interesting, because I'm a basketball fan wondering what's gonna happen, I think that makes you the troll.

Wasn't really referring to you. I was talking more about the brain dead idiots such as sharmer and oldskoolball.

[Sharmer]

No reasonable argument can be made to justify Kobe taking twice as many shots as Dwight.

[Heavincent]

No reasonable argument can be made to justify Kobe taking twice as many shots as Dwight.

Kobe is a far superior offensive player.

There, I just did.

[no pun intended]

If they are better, it's because Kobe doesn't fit in D'Antoni's offense as well as spot-up shooters do.

[chazzy]

No reasonable argument can be made to justify Kobe taking twice as many shots as Dwight.
Why did a healthy Dwight take even fewer shots as the first option in 2010?

[The-Legend-24]

You dudes should really stop responding, just let the thread die.

[Sharmer]

Kobe is a far superior offensive player.

There, I just did.

Not when you look at FG %.

[Sharmer]

If they are better, it's because Kobe doesn't fit in D'Antoni's offense as well as spot-up shooters do.

There actually a better defensive team without Kobe.

Anyway ones who watched the Lakers play this year could see how pathetic Kobe's defense has been.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Posted this in another thread...


Honestly, I think they play better defense without Kobe. Ball moves around more AND they force-feed their bigs too. LAL just needs a perimeter player that can create his own shot ... Nash?!?!

[Sharmer]

Posted this in another thread...

:bowdown:

Kobe and Nash worst defensive guard combo in the league.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:bowdown:

Kobe and Nash worst defensive guard combo in the league.

That's true. At least now it won't be a "combo" lol. IF LA gets matched up w/ SA, though, AND Nash is healthy, there's a STRONG possibility of an upset special.

[Magic 32]

Yes, and Heat is better without Wade and Lebron. Bosh was being held back.

http://i.imgur.com/ElRJyrn.gif

The haters are predictable, snotty little kids.

Go away.

[knicksman]

Actually that's most of the way Dwight gets his points - putbacks, and easy lobs - regardless of who's on the floor.

Son, why try so hard. It's a lost cause. :lol :lol

But I thought dwight is a scrub. But it seems he plays better without kobe.

[SyRyanYang]

But I thought dwight is a scrub. But it seems he plays better without kobe.
but..but..but:rolleyes:

[All Net]

Not when teams close out the paint...

[Ass Dan]

These are my reasons:

1) Gasol and Howard have more touches. With kobe gone, both of them have to step up offensively. Seeing both make 20 ppg each is not unrealistic.

2) Nash would be able to handle the ball most of the times (Instead of Kobe) which we know is his most effective game as he can easily deliver good looks for the big men.

3) The spirit of the team gets stronger. We have seen it with Kevin Ware and the Louisville team, one ugly injury and it spirited the team to win the national championship just to honor the fallen teammate. Now we have Kobe with a full blown achilles tendon and a video of him crying in the press conference. Im not saying the Lakers will win it all, but maybe they make a deep run for their fallen hero..

If we can play SA in the first round, I like our chances, we hold the tie breaker against the rockets, so I am hoping they lose their final two (one is versus us).

Here is the reason, we can run a Memphis type situation with Howard and Gasol being a better version of Randolph and Gasol, MWP being a better Tony Allen, and with Steve and Steve handling the rock, dishing and spotting up for 3s the offense will be very very potent. Especially if D'Antoni can cook up some pick and rolls as well.

Defense is a sore spot, but if Nash and Blake can just funnel guys into the middle, our frontline defenders are world class, and this shit can get done.

We will need JM, AJ, or Hill to step up each night, but I think if Dwight goes into beast mode, we will be good.

Our two best wins of the year (at Indy and tonight's) were WITHOUT Bean, so we can do this, we just gotta believe.

Trouble is too many 'Laker Fans' are simply Kobe hero-worshippers and were likely upset we won tonight.

Sad reality of Laker Nation.

[elementally morale]

The Lakers will have a few games when they are better and many games when they are worse.

The offense will become more fluid and that's a positive. When the team is hitting its outside shots and Dwight makes his FTs they can be better playing without Kobe. On most nights though, that just won't happen.

For a game or two they can look better any time. In the long run, not a chance. Now if you add a few good perimeter shooters and better defenders to Pau and Dwight, that's a different story. But this team as it is will not be better w/o Bryant.

[DMAVS41]

The big thing, if they make the playoffs, will be if Nash can come back and play well.

Because they will really need him now.

[Nash]

Can't wait to see Nash back working with the big men.

[ripthekik]

Can't wait to see Nash back working with the big men.
First Nash post in over 4000 posts :applause: :applause:

[Allstar24]

:oldlol: Get it out quick while you can right? ONE win and suddenly the Lakers are better without Kobe, one of the greatest of all time. Trolls trying too hard.

Anyways, Dwight and Steve Blake, great game :cheers:

[PickernRoller]

But I thought dwight is a scrub. But it seems he plays better without kobe.


Keyword: SEEMS.

Given the fact that both Shaq and Pau had most of their career success when both paired with a guy named Kobe Bryant I don't think there is an argument as to what will lead to more success. There is NO argument.

It's a no brainer that Dwight will average better numbers with Kobe off the floor- overall very probable. He will have to pick some of the scoring slack, be a floor leader more so than before and be on-guard at all times. That is in no way shape or form a dig at Kobe making him look worse, holding him back or preventing Dwight and the Lakers from having success. It means the team dynamics are different.

Dwight IS a scrub offensively. Is that any news or will haters want to deny that fact? There is only one true test- the eye test and it's as clear as night and day the shortcomings of Dwight on offense. When compared to a softie yet skilled Pau Gasol for example.

[DMAVS41]

Keyword: SEEMS.

Given the fact that both Shaq and Pau had most of their career success when both paired with a guy named Kobe Bryant I don't think there is an argument as to what will lead to more success. There is NO argument.

It's a no brainer that Dwight will average better numbers with Kobe off the floor- overall very probable. He will have to pick some of the scoring slack, be a floor leader more so than before and be on-guard at all times. That is in no way shape or form a dig at Kobe making him look worse, holding him back or preventing Dwight and the Lakers from having success. It means the team dynamics are different.

Dwight IS a scrub offensively. Is that any news or will haters want to deny that fact? There is only one true test- the eye test and it's as clear as night and day the shortcomings of Dwight on offense. When compared to a softie yet skilled Pau Gasol for example.

Tyson Chandler is a scrub offensively. Howard is absolutely not. Scrubs can't produce the way Howard does.

****ing morons...

[deja vu]

How can the Lakers be better when they lost an all-time great player and their biggest superstar? It's just like the Bulls losing Jordan to retirement. I'm not saying that Kobe is equal to or better than MJ but he's one of the best players of all time (top 10 IMO). Nobody can replace him except another all-time great player.

Of course, the Lakers might play well in the few succeeding games because they are motivated. Kobe's injury might have inspired them and they try to play harder to make up for the loss of their leader. They can't play like that forever so sooner or later, they will be playing at an average or slightly mediocre level. They might make it to the playoffs and make things hard for OKC or SA the first few games, but will ultimately succumb to superior opposition.

[PickernRoller]

Tyson Chandler is a scrub offensively. Howard is absolutely not. Scrubs can't produce the way Howard does.

****ing morons...

:coleman: I don't know what's worse, picking on a word used as loosely as scrub or the fact that you are the moron. I guess that's what morons got these days - cherry picking for lack of better. Dwight is a scrub offensively - I give two rats what your definition of scrub is, and to what degree, for Dwights stature anyway compared to his peers.

[DMAVS41]

:coleman: I don't know what's worse, picking on a word used as loosely as scrub or the fact that you are the moron. I guess that's what morons got these days - cherry picking for lack of better. Dwight is a scrub offensively - I give two rats what your definition of scrub is, and to what degree, for Dwights stature anyway compared to his peers.

What?

You just want to be able to say anything. If Howard is a scrub offensively...what is Chandler?

****ing moron...

[Sharmer]

:coleman: I don't know what's worse, picking on a word used as loosely as scrub or the fact that you are the moron. I guess that's what morons got these days - cherry picking for lack of better. Dwight is a scrub offensively - I give two rats what your definition of scrub is, and to what degree, for Dwights stature anyway compared to his peers.

You really are one of the worst on here. You have don

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The Washington Wizards have the worst offense in the league clocking in with a 100.1 offensive rating.

The Lakers last night finished the game with a 97.5 offensive rating.

DAT KOBELESS OFFENSE :bowdown:

[OldSkoolball#52]

The Washington Wizards have the worst offense in the league clocking in with a 100.1 offensive rating.

The Lakers last night finished the game with a 97.5 offensive rating.

DAT KOBELESS OFFENSE :bowdown:


Thats because the guys behind Kornbe in the rotation havent played in months. With a lil swagger from the win and Nash comin back to the lineup, the offense bout to go to new heights, one that Chuckbe could never produce but will predictably try to take some credit for with his contrived Coachbe gimmicks.

[PickernRoller]

What?

You just want to be able to say anything. If Howard is a scrub offensively...what is Chandler?

****ing moron...

Wait since when I can't say anything I chose to say? :roll: :roll:

Ohh there is a new low here. Morons trying to dictate what someone can or cannot say. :roll: :roll: :roll:

BTW Chandler is another scrub offensively. He's in the league for a reason - defense. Just like Dwight even thou he's indeed a better all around player - still, a scrub offensively - post game is ridiculously bad. Not a dig, just a fact. Dwight is, despite his limitations, an athletic freak - allowing him to overpower the weak crop of centers of today. That too is also a fact. To say he's a good offensive player after what he has showcased this season is a stretch. Even healthy and on the perfect "Dwight" system he was very limited - benefiting from that system to maximize his "potential" - not much if you take defense out of the equation.

As for Shamer. Go back to your hole son. I don't give a shit what you think. Troll asking for too much attention. I seen way better.


Thats because the guys behind Kornbe in the rotation havent played in months. With a lil swagger from the win and Nash comin back to the lineup, the offense bout to go to new heights, one that Chuckbe could never produce but will predictably try to take some credit for with his contrived Coachbe gimmicks.

He takes all the credit. Mamba too good, whether you like it not. :bowdown: :bowdown:

[AlphaWolf24]

- Serious answer - I do expect them to play Great basketball in the playoff's....even maybe upsetting SA or OKC.

- and while they will play inspired , with all the role players stepping up and playing a more engaged style.

- How long will it last?...and how much will Kobe's creativity and skillset be missed?

- remember how well Chicago Played when MJ retired in 94?....they won 55 games and nearly upset the ECChampions Knicks in the 2nd round.

but it was MJ's closing games ability that IMO hurt them more then anything. The Bull's made up for most MJ's skillset ( offensive FG% and def points allowed all improved)....but couldn't make up the most important...MJ's ability to get any shot he wanted when the game is slowed down / in the post season.( although PIP did play amazing)

- I expect the same from LA......an upset in the 1rst round would not surprise me at all.

[Xiao Yao You]

Keyword: SEEMS.

Given the fact that both Shaq and Pau had most of their career success when both paired with a guy named Kobe Bryant I don't think there is an argument as to what will lead to more success. There is NO argument.

You forget that Kobe has done next to nothing without Phil.

[DMAVS41]

Wait since when I can't say anything I chose to say? :roll: :roll:

Ohh there is a new low here. Morons trying to dictate what someone can or cannot say. :roll: :roll: :roll:

BTW Chandler is another scrub offensively. He's in the league for a reason - defense. Just like Dwight even thou he's indeed a better all around player - still, a scrub offensively - post game is ridiculously bad. Not a dig, just a fact. Dwight is, despite his limitations, an athletic freak - allowing him to overpower the weak crop of centers of today. That too is also a fact. To say he's a good offensive player after what he has showcased this season is a stretch. Even healthy and on the perfect "Dwight" system he was very limited - benefiting from that system to maximize his "potential" - not much if you take defense out of the equation.

As for Shamer. Go back to your hole son. I don't give a shit what you think. Troll asking for too much attention. I seen way better.



He takes all the credit. Mamba too good, whether you like it not. :bowdown: :bowdown:

Scrubs don't produce like Howard in the post 1 on 1.

He is absolutely not a scrub in any way. Go back to pretending that he's a "system" player....when playing 2nd fiddle on a team with terrible chemistry while fighting through injuries was able to average 17/12.

And that "system player" last night had a truly great game on both ends despite playing for a coach, system, and with players that are awful for his style. Oh, and he did it against Duncan.

****ing moron...

[PickernRoller]

Scrubs don't produce like Howard in the post 1 on 1.

He is absolutely not a scrub in any way. Go back to pretending that he's a "system" player....when playing 2nd fiddle on a team with terrible chemistry while fighting through injuries was able to average 17/12.

And that "system player" last night had a truly great game on both ends despite playing for a coach, system, and with players that are awful for his style. Oh, and he did it against Duncan.

****ing moron...

I see no rebuttal there. Other than the fact that you consider an old Duncan someone to be feared defensively when he no longer is. Despite what this watered down league has people believing. I guess the standards have fallen.

Also your sample size is great - thanks for that. I know I choose to forget the countless times he got force fed in the post and kept bricking the ball or turning it over. Or, when a basket in a critical moment was needed he bricked it and wasn't dependable. Or, how teams Hack-A-Howard for a reason. Or how the Lakers lost games earlier in the season because of this. Or........should I continue, or will you cherry pick your way through a stupid "argument" - there is none bud. He's a scrub offensively. Take his defense out of the equation and you're left with little, very little. FACT.

Look if you wanna bitch about the word scrub go ahead. Tell your mom too. Wait for an answer, you know what she'll say......

F'cking moron.

[DMAVS41]

I see no rebuttal there. Other than the fact that you consider an old Duncan someone respectable defensively when he no longer is. Despite what this watered down league has people believing.

Also your sample size is great - thanks for that. I know I choose to forget the countless times he got force fed in the post and kept bricking the ball or turning it over. Or, when a basket in a critical moment was needed he bricked it and wasn't dependable. Or, how teams Hack-A-Howard for reason. Or how the Lakers lost games earlier in the season because of this. Or........

Look if you wanna bitch about the word scrub go ahead. Tell your mom too. Wait for an answer, you know what she'll say......

F'cking moron.

Did you really just throw "sample size" at me when we've seen Howard produce for years in the post?

And Duncan still is absolutely a very good defensive player. What NBA season have you been watching?

[Mrofir]

How can the Lakers be better when they lost an all-time great player and their biggest superstar? It's just like the Bulls losing Jordan to retirement. I'm not saying that Kobe is equal to or better than MJ but he's one of the best players of all time (top 10 IMO). Nobody can replace him except another all-time great player.

Of course, the Lakers might play well in the few succeeding games because they are motivated. Kobe's injury might have inspired them and they try to play harder to make up for the loss of their leader. They can't play like that forever so sooner or later, they will be playing at an average or slightly mediocre level. They might make it to the playoffs and make things hard for OKC or SA the first few games, but will ultimately succumb to superior opposition.

To answer your first question, because the team has major chemistry issues and this clears the path for other players to feel better about their roles and contribute more effectively.

In response to paragraph 2, so you are going out on a limb and saying the 8th seed Lakers are going to lose to the 1 seed? How much do you charge?

This team was going to lose in the 1st round regardless. I tell you one thing, if they become the 3rd 8th seed to ever advance in the playoffs, the whole premise of this thread gains a lot of credibility. That's a fact. Conversely the Kobe fans who predicted erroneously that the team had a chance with Kobe to upset in the 1st round now have to at least admit that if they do it without him, then as great of a player as he is, he hadn't figured out how to contribute to this team without negating or hampering his teammate's contributions. fortunately for us all nba basketball is pretty predictable and while I think they will win 2 games, I don't see them winning a series, so the result will be the same as it would have been with kobe.

[PickernRoller]

Did you really just throw "sample size" at me when we've seen Howard produce for years in the post?

And Duncan still is absolutely a very good defensive player. What NBA season have you been watching?

Duncan:
Depends what you consider very good if you watched him in the early 2000's. But yeah you didn't so. Back then he was very good, not DPOY, very good. I'll give you average when comparing him to Gasol today. Big difference yooung and prime Tim from this Tim. Not even his fans recall.

Dwight:
System player - today and now - scrub. What have I been saying? Like I said - go cry to your momma.

[Mrofir]

Dwight:
System player - today and now - scrub. What have I been saying? Like I said - go cry to your momma.



You are confused my friend. D12 played like sh!t earlier this season, partially due to maybe the back, partially due to immaturity, partially due to team chemistry issues.

But my friend, D12 is not a scrub, nor is he a system player. He is the most talented big in the league and capable of leading a team to the finals as the main piece. Do you think Orlando gets to the finals without D12? Do you think a scrub can lead a team to the finals? If it was the system, why don't all teams just use that system and find a scrub to lead them to the finals?

You are name calling that is not nice and sounds like you are feeling defensive about your misinformed and terribly unfortunate point of view. I will set an example by not calling you names.

[PickernRoller]

^^^^^^^^^Before mister nice jumps into the wagon.

Scrub offensively. I never said scrub overall as a player - so maybe you should read over before giving someone a history lesson. I am very aware of it thank you. I appreciate the manners for once.

I was on board trading him for Bynum and I still back that support. I love the guy for his defense but I'll rip him apart for his offense. His defensive qualities make up for much more than his offensive deficiencies and for that reason we need him. I will however not sit back and cheer him up like a cheerleader when he still can't deliver offensively like we need him to. Might never happen. Although I am sure he'll work on his post game non-stop this off-season. It's too apparent his extremely limited. If he doesn't diversify and learn some fundamentals he will get nowhere.

The proposition is simple. Take Dwight's defense out of the equation and then people should tell me with a straight face that they'll take him over the following:

Pau Gasol
Roy Hibbert
Marc Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Duncan(he's a center playing PF)
Asik this season...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Calling Dwight a "scrub" on offense is nonsensical. It doesn't matter how he gets his points, the BOTTOM LINE is he's a career 18ppg scorer on better than 57% shooting. This is what you call having IMPACT.

[PickernRoller]

Calling Dwight a "scrub" on offense is nonsensical. It doesn't matter how he gets his points, the BOTTOM LINE is he's a career 18ppg scorer on better than 57% shooting. This is what you call having IMPACT.

Still a scrub - impact does not equal dependability to deliver. Nice for you to drop by for another hammer. :roll: :roll: :roll:

You'll never get over it i suppose. It's all good, means it was a deep cut.

[chazzy]

Dwight has had some issues on the low post for large parts of the year, but being able to put yourself in position to score 17 a night while not being 100% is part of your offensive ability. Your offensive skill isn't only judged by what you do 1on1 on the low block. As he's gotten healthier, he's regaining his Orlando strength down low and able to finish strong again around the rim. Look at his numbers this past month.. this myth that Dwight has no post moves needs to end.

[Pacers4ever]

PickernRoll proves that kobestans know next to nothing about basketball :facepalm

[tpols]

Dwight played with so much hustle last night.. You could see the difference so clearly when he ran the floor. Dude was gazelle outrunning everyone, jumping at every layup, crashing the boards, working the post at least decent, hitting FTs when they mattered.

Now that he sees the burden is on him to be the leader and best player he is actually trying. Really a batch move that he couldn't put differences aside and do this earlier.

And yes the way Dwight played offensively this year especially at the beginning was scrub like. In the 40s for FTs, no passing ability, out of the post and very turnover prone. His FG is high because if he isn't getting a shot at the rim he is most likely getting fouled or turning it over, which results in nothing and happens about half of the time.

[SMoKe0uT]

Dwight has had some issues on the low post for large parts of the year, but being able to put yourself in position to score 17 a night while not being 100% is part of your offensive ability. Your offensive skill isn't only judged by what you do 1on1 on the low block. As he's gotten healthier, he's regaining his Orlando strength down low and able to finish strong again around the rim. Look at his numbers this past month.. this myth that Dwight has no post moves needs to end.

lets not get athletic around the rim mistaken with post moves. he dont have any quite simple his points come from put backs and dunks with an occasional sweeping hook that seems to miss more than it hits.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Still a scrub - impact does not equal dependability

Do you not understand what an AVERAGE means? He's been a consistent 18 ppg+ scorer for the last 5 seasons. How is he undependable? Better yet, how is he a scrub? :oldlol:

[PickernRoller]

PickernRoll proves that kobestans know next to nothing about basketball :facepalm

Kobe stans know best. Thanks for confirming people actually pay attention to Kobe stans. Beat em, beat em. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Still a scrub fellas, still a scrub. :rockon:

bunch of pathetic morons arguing about "scrub" status. Kuniva and DMAVs trying to take a dig - what more can you ask than to see the effort and attempt for such a thing. If it ain't pathetic I don't know what is.

I don't need to explain myself son. It's what it's - scrub period.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe stans know best. Thanks for confirming people actually pay attention to Kobe stans. Beat em, beat em. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Still a scrub fellas, still a scrub. :rockon:

bunch of pathetic morons arguing about "scrub" status. Kuniva and DMAVs trying to take a dig - what more can you ask than to see the effort and attempt for such a thing. If it ain't pathetic I don't know what is.

But, you still haven't explained how Dwight is a "scrub" :confusedshrug:

[PickernRoller]

But, you still haven't explained how Dwight is a "scrub" :confusedshrug:

The way you keep asking I might have to..:oldlol:

I feel compelled to do it, clean my name, fulfill the ultimate rebuttal.

The again maybe not and you're still pathetic following around each and everyone of my posts.

Ask again. Beg.

[willds09]

they would be worse:facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The way you keep asking I might have to..:oldlol:

I feel compelled to do it, clean my name, fulfill the ultimate rebuttal.

The again maybe not and you're still pathetic following around each and everyone of my posts.

You don't own copyrights to these threads dude. :oldlol: In fact, I commented yesterday...before you even.

Forget all of that though. I'd like to hear why you believe Dwight is a "scrub". I'll wait.

[PickernRoller]

You don't own copyrights to these threads dude. :oldlol: In fact, I commented yesterday...before you even.

Really though, I'd like to hear why you believe Dwight is a "scrub". I'll wait.

I never said I did. I said you follow each and everyone of my post. That's a clear undeniable fact - backed by a long history of whip lashing for being a clown with no self-respect. from that moment on, boy have you glued yourself to my posts. There is no revenge - it's only ISH.

Anyway beg and I might...:roll: :roll:

[Mrofir]

Wasn't really referring to you. I was talking more about the brain dead idiots such as sharmer and oldskoolball.

appreciate this clarification. :cheers:


^^^^^^^^^Before mister nice jumps into the wagon.

Scrub offensively.

.. he still can't deliver offensively like we need him to. Might never happen. Although I am sure he'll work on his post game non-stop this off-season. It's too apparent his extremely limited. If he doesn't diversify and learn some fundamentals he will get nowhere.

The proposition is simple. Take Dwight's defense out of the equation and then people should tell me with a straight face that they'll take him over the following:

Pau Gasol
Roy Hibbert
Marc Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Duncan(he's a center playing PF)
Asik this season...

I would take all those players over Dwight if he wasn't the defensive monster he is, but the thing is, he wouldn't be career 18ppg without the same attributes that make him such a force at the defensive end. He is a physically dominant big man in a league with very precious few of those. None of the other guys on that list can say that. That's where his offense comes from, and his offense ain't bad.

I think what you're saying is his post game isn't great. I agree, but I don't think it's a scrub post game either. There are tons of examples of worse post games than D12. It's just, when you compare his post game with other big men we would like to compare him to, aka hakeem, shaq, whatever, it is garbage. Still, for emphasis, this isn't where the majority of his offense comes from, and when you stitch it all together, the guy puts the ball in the bucket in a variety of high efficiency ways. He's pretty good offensively, capable of putting up the same numbers as anyone on the list you mentioned. And he does..

In the playoffs if LA wants to pull an upset, Dwight is going to need to focus on reducing turnovers, can't be more than 3 a game if they want to win on the road.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I never said I did. I said you follow each and everyone of my post.

No one is "following" you. I posted in here long before you did. That's the point.


That's a clear undeniable fact - backed by a long history of whip lashing for being a clown with no self-respect. from that moment on, boy have you glued yourself to my posts. There is no revenge - it's only ISH.

Anyway beg and I might...:roll: :roll:

So, what you're saying is..you cant back up your opinion?

[chazzy]

Roy Hibbert? Really?

[chips93]

I see no rebuttal there. Other than the fact that you consider an old Duncan someone to be feared defensively when he no longer is. Despite what this watered down league has people believing. I guess the standards have fallen

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/zi_ultimate/gif/shocked.gif (http://s956.photobucket.com/user/zi_ultimate/media/gif/shocked.gif.html)


He is the most talented big in the league and capable of leading a team to the finals as the main piece. Do you think Orlando gets to the finals without D12? Do you think a scrub can lead a team to the finals? If it was the system, why don't all teams just use that system and find a scrub to lead them to the finals?

this is a great point, that predictably got ignored

if you can build an offense around a scrub like howard, and get to the finals, why doesnt everybody do it?

[PickernRoller]

this is a great point, that predictably got ignored

if you can build an offense around a scrub like howard, and get to the finals, why doesnt everybody do it?

You can answer that question. I never ignored it. I am not a typing machine intended to reply to any winy poster. There is more to Dwight that his offense am I rite. That should be enough.


No one is "following" you. I posted in here long before you did. That's the point.

So, what you're saying is..you cant back up your opinion?

Really that's the point? You're telling me that's the point? It's exactly not. Keep repeating the same thing every time you reply to my posts. Gets old, quick fast and easy. You're out of all the dumbnuts in this forum the one that tries the hardest. Which means you're the most pathetic. Who would have thought eh?

- As for the other classic - I don't need to back up my opinion other than what's already been said and what can be deduced as to what my opinion is. He's a scrub offensively period. Explain to me why you reply to my posts? or why you're a clown with no self-respect? I will wait for the answer.

[OldSkoolball#52]

You can answer that question. I never ignored it. I am not a typing machine intended to reply to any winy poster. There is more to Dwight that his offense am I rite. That should be enough.


Youre trying to minimize dwight to prop up kobe. Its obvious to all. Why u trying to hide it?

Kobe is the most important thing in your life. You must keep him propped up, because thats what keeps you propped up.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Really that's the point? You're telling me that's the point?

Yes, the point that nobody is "following" you. I'm sorry but you're not an internet celebrity. Get over it dude. :oldlol:


I don't need to back up my opinion other than what's already been said and what can be deduced as to what my opinion is. He's a scrub offensively period.

Why is he a scrub on offense, though? Save for this year, where he's been playing through injuries, Dwight has averaged 20 the last 3-4 seasons. On great efficiency too. Scrubs do this?


Explain to me why you reply to my posts? or why you're a clown with no self-respect? I will wait for the answer.

How about you explain to me why you posted in a thread I was already in? :confusedshrug:

[PickernRoller]

Youre trying to minimize dwight to prop up kobe. Its obvious to all. Why u trying to hide it?

Kobe is the most important thing in your life. You must keep him propped up, because thats what keeps you propped up.

Top 5 all time. :bowdown:

As for your accusation, lol really?

[PickernRoller]

Yes, the point that nobody is "following" you. I'm sorry but you're not an internet celebrity. Get over it dude. :oldlol:


I am an internet celebrity else I wouldn't have taken over the thread? Am I rite? Thought so. I attract strange creatures to my posts. You being one of them. Great retention numbers too. Usually the same bunch or similar in nature.

Had you begged or answered my questions? Guess not. You still don't get it and never will. Even if you do you can't comprehend it and suppress it. Makes you pathetic as most anyway I'll give you credit - you're not alone.

Dwight is a scrub offensively. Nothing more to it son.

[Laker4Lyfe]

Yes they are and now that he's gone the Lakers will go very very far into the playoffs with a good chance at winning it all. :banana::banana::banana:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I am an internet celebrity else I wouldn't have taken over the thread? Am I rite? Thought so. I attract strange creatures to my posts. You being one of them. Great retention numbers too. Usually the same bunch or similar.

But, you posted in a thread I was already in. :confusedshrug:


Had you begged or answered my questions? Guess not. You still don't get it and never will. Even if you do you can't comprehend it and suppress it. Makes you pathetic.

Dwight is a scrub offensively. Nothing more to it son.

You pooped your big boy pants here. :oldlol: Clean up and then explain why Dwight is a "scrub".

[knicksman]

Keyword: SEEMS.

Given the fact that both Shaq and Pau had most of their career success when both paired with a guy named Kobe Bryant I don't think there is an argument as to what will lead to more success. There is NO argument.

It's a no brainer that Dwight will average better numbers with Kobe off the floor- overall very probable. He will have to pick some of the scoring slack, be a floor leader more so than before and be on-guard at all times. That is in no way shape or form a dig at Kobe making him look worse, holding him back or preventing Dwight and the Lakers from having success. It means the team dynamics are different.

Dwight IS a scrub offensively. Is that any news or will haters want to deny that fact? There is only one true test- the eye test and it's as clear as night and day the shortcomings of Dwight on offense. When compared to a softie yet skilled Pau Gasol for example.

shaq is already successful before kobe. LOL and gasol is in the same place as kobe without an elite big which is first round exit. So try again

[knicksman]

How can the Lakers be better when they lost an all-time great player and their biggest superstar? It's just like the Bulls losing Jordan to retirement. I'm not saying that Kobe is equal to or better than MJ but he's one of the best players of all time (top 10 IMO). Nobody can replace him except another all-time great player.

Of course, the Lakers might play well in the few succeeding games because they are motivated. Kobe's injury might have inspired them and they try to play harder to make up for the loss of their leader. They can't play like that forever so sooner or later, they will be playing at an average or slightly mediocre level. They might make it to the playoffs and make things hard for OKC or SA the first few games, but will ultimately succumb to superior opposition.

kobe is nothing without phil. This season has proven that hes a low IQ player.

[PickernRoller]

shaq is already successful before kobe. LOL and gasol is in the same place as kobe without an elite big which is first round exit. So try again

Ohh really how many rings? :facepalm

Dwight still a scrub Kuniva. It needs no explanation. Keep on asking....work that extra mile.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Ohh really how many rings? :facepalm

Dwight still a scrub Kuniva. It needs no explanation. Keep on asking....work that extra mile.

I've already presented the facts. I'm sorry if your birth defects don't allow you to understand basic information. :confusedshrug:

[knicksman]

Ohh really how many rings? :facepalm

Dwight still a scrub Kuniva. It needs no explanation. Keep on asking....work that extra mile.

well kobe is a 6th man or a nobody when he first won his 1st ring so 1. And only idiots believe that a player capable of 23 ppg is a scrub.

[GawdBe]

Dwight is having his worst offensive AND defensive season in a long time. Stone hands on entry passes, predictable moves, turnovers when doubled etc etc. But to call him a scrub (even offensively), is asinine really. Dude is a 3 time DPOY and fully capable of 22/14 on good %'s. Coming off serious back surgery is brutal, but he's been rounding back in to form recently. Scrub? Smh just smh

[jzek]

Spurs in 5.