Lettuce be real hear James harden is manufactured

[SMoKe0uT]

Game predicated on getting flopping calls driving to the basket.

garbage

:lol

[Screamingdoom]

His game doesn't impress me even though I haven't watched him much. But once refs stop blowing their whistles his game falls apart.

[SMoKe0uT]

His game doesn't impress me even though I haven't watched him much. But once refs stop blowing their whistles his game falls apart.

truth

[DaSeba5]

He was awful in the 2nd half. He really hurt his team tonight taking low percentage jumpers and forcing himself into the paint to get the whistle.

[imdaman99]

you guys will be back on his balls when he goes bananas on OKC in 1 game of this series, like he did a lil while back

[Svendiggity]

I went to a Cavs game when they played the Rockets. His game is even more boring in person

[DaSeba5]

you guys will be back on his balls when he goes bananas on OKC in 1 game of this series, like he did a lil while back

I'm indifferent. I could care less about Houston. I don't mind Harden at all. I hope he goes off on OKC so there will be a fun series.

[strifed169]

Why blame the players when its obvious its their jackass of a coach? dude has 1 set play he runs all game long, dribble handoff > ISO, and the political idiot JVG said he was a COTY candidate, he's full of shit and doesn't even watch their games.

[buddha]

His game doesn't impress me even though I haven't watched him much. But once refs stop blowing their whistles his game falls apart.

reminds me of the finals

[SCdac]

He's a great player, and will continue to improve probably, but not as great as his numbers suggest IMO.

He definitely embellishes every little touch. But hardly the first player to do so.

[imdaman99]

I'm indifferent. I could care less about Houston. I don't mind Harden at all. I hope he goes off on OKC so there will be a fun series.
He went off against the Heat too, altho in a losing effort. I'm pretty much indifferent to the Rockets too, but that game he had against OKC was a thing of beauty. I dont like the guy, but that comeback he led had me saying WOW.

[SMoKe0uT]

no beard = no calls just something for the nba to hype up.

[Kurosawa0]

Harden is a great talent, but at no point should he be taking 13 threes in a game. He needs to watch some Wade tapes. His jump shot comes freeing up space from drives, not the other way around.

[WeGetRing2012]

Game predicated on getting flopping calls driving to the basket.

garbage

:lol

Harden > Wade

only because Harden doesn't whine for the whistle

[SMoKe0uT]

Harden > Wade

only because Harden doesn't whine for the whistle


i cant stand wade but i disagree.

[Phantom_Blue]

I didn't watch Harden much in OKC, was this how he played with the 2nd unit? OKC fans feel free to chime in.

[bdreason]

I didn't watch Harden much in OKC, was this how he played with the 2nd unit? OKC fans feel free to chime in.


He took better shots in OKC. In Houston, he had the green light, and his shot selection has suffered.

Harden is really good, but I have to agree that he's either hittin 3's or getting to the FT line... and not much in between.

Houston desperately needs a big guy who can create his own shot. I would love to see them go after a guy like Millsap in the offseason.

[Leftimage]

What impresses me about Harden's game is the fact he can score 25+ppg on a playoff team despite having:

1. Seemingly subpar athleticism.
2. Seemingly mediocre skill level.

Don't get me wrong, there is little doubt in my mind he is a very skilled player, but his style is just so casual.

Guess he just has great timing and an innate ''feel' for the game.

Don't see him as manufactured.

[mjokc]

It's funny how when KD gets FTs, everybody talks shit and gets insecure about him. But Harden's game relies on FTs because he has no mid-range game and everyone is blowing his *** bubbles out of their ***hole.

[KungFuJoe]

What impresses me about Harden's game is the fact he can score 25+ppg on a playoff team despite having:

1. Seemingly subpar athleticism.
2. Seemingly mediocre skill level.

Don't get me wrong, there is little doubt in my mind he is a very skilled player, but his style is just so casual.

Guess he just has great timing and an innate ''feel' for the game.

Don't see him as manufactured.

He scores 25ppg cuz he's a chucker with no conscience who expends zero energy on defense.

I bet there's quite a few guys who could score like James if they had the green light, wasn't expected to play d, and ran a high tempo offense like Houston's.

His entire offense is dribble at the top til the shot clock gets down to 5 then shoot a 3 (which he can actually do at a decent clip), drive in hoping for the foul, or pass to some unlucky teammate who has 3 seconds to put up a prayer.

[chips93]

Why blame the players when its obvious its their jackass of a coach? dude has 1 set play he runs all game long, dribble handoff > ISO, and the political idiot JVG said he was a COTY candidate, he's full of shit and doesn't even watch their games.


yet their offense is one of the best in the league, despite being so simple :confusedshrug:

also, they got harden very late in training camp, so its not like they had a long time to build their offense around him.

[MARLO]

I didn't watch Harden much in OKC, was this how he played with the 2nd unit? OKC fans feel free to chime in.


He ran the offense off the bench a little more during his time at OKC, but yeah he's been doing the 3pt./slash/eurosteptothebasketanddrawthefoul thing for the latter part of his career. Sometimes it's effective(2012 WC Playoffs). Sometimes it isn't(2012 Finals).

Still a dynamic player with frightening potential in the beginning of his career despite his current flaws.

[Leftimage]

He scores 25ppg cuz he's a chucker with no conscience who expends zero energy on defense.

I bet there's quite a few guys who could score like James if they had the green light, wasn't expected to play d, and ran a high tempo offense like Houston's.

His entire offense is dribble at the top til the shot clock gets down to 5 then shoot a 3 (which he can actually do at a decent clip), drive in hoping for the foul, or pass to some unlucky teammate who has 3 seconds to put up a prayer.

There must be a reason for him getting the green light on a playoff team, surely. Or is his coach an idiot?

I think he's a fantastic scorer who's playing ''his age'' defensively, will only get better with time though.

Besides, It's not like the media has anointed him an all-time great either, they've just taken note of the fact Harden has achieved stardom. (as determined by fan base I suppose)

[Xsatyr]

His numbers dropped a couple months when he got injured. He has not been the same since.

[Shepseskaf]

I don't think Harden is "manufactured", but playoff-style ball does tend to expose his game because its not as loose and fluid as regular season play.

Now, we really get to see if Presti knew what he was doing, or not. My bet is on the former.

[Electric Slide]

He is more than likely fatigued from carrying the Rockets all season. I don't think he conditioned or worked hard enough in the off-season to carry such a load because he was traded right at the end of preseason.

[WeGetRing2012]

He took better shots in OKC. In Houston, he had the green light, and his shot selection has suffered.

Harden is really good, but I have to agree that he's either hittin 3's or getting to the FT line... and not much in between.

Houston desperately needs a big guy who can create his own shot. I would love to see them go after a guy like Millsap in the offseason.

Josh Smith?

[KungFuJoe]

There must be a reason for him getting the green light on a playoff team, surely. Or is his coach an idiot?

I think he's a fantastic scorer who's playing ''his age'' defensively, will only get better with time though.

Besides, It's not like the media has anointed him an all-time great either, they've just taken note of the fact Harden has achieved stardom. (as determined by fan base I suppose)

I hope it's just a slump, but his March was the worst month he had all year. And it's continued into this month. Talk about the WORST timing as we head into the playoffs.

His last 6 games, other than Sac (but it's Sac...anyone looks great against them), have been ATROCIOUS. Shooting like crap, jacking up bad shot after bad shot, playing NO D, turning the ball over like crazy (had back to back games of 8 and 9 TOs), and really being a detriment to the team. The whole flow of the offense suffers when he's on the court.

And he's been HORRIBLE in crunch time. He was horrible tonight against the Lakers, he was something like 0-7 in the 4th quarter of their last game. And he was horrible against the Suns...his "winning" basket was a miss that ONeal tipped out.

If he keeps this up into the playoffs, Houston is going to get blown out and swept.

[Euroleague]

Harden is the absolute worst kind of player there is. No defense, no team play, and relies solely on flopping to score..............

[Euroleague]

Why blame the players when its obvious its their jackass of a coach? dude has 1 set play he runs all game long, dribble handoff > ISO, and the political idiot JVG said he was a COTY candidate, he's full of shit and doesn't even watch their games.

No, Jeff Van Gundy probably actually believes that. Jeff Van Gundy was one of the worst coaches I have ever seen.

That kind of offense right there, is "proper basketball" according to that moron. Thank god the NBA teams finally stopped hiring coaches like him.

[dekciw]

People need to stop looking at the stats sheet to build their opinion on a player :facepalm He hasn't gotten too hot lately but when he's on, he can expose defense like none other.

[mjokc]

Harden is the absolute worst kind of player there is. No defense, no team play, and relies solely on flopping to score..............


:applause:

[Electric Slide]

People need to stop looking at the stats sheet to build their opinion on a player :facepalm He hasn't gotten too hot lately but when he's on, he can expose defense like none other.
Actually people need to stop looking at his FG% because how frequently he gets to the line and how well he converts on his attempts offsets it. That is what the stat true shooting percentage is for.

[mjokc]

People need to stop looking at the stats sheet to build their opinion on a player :facepalm He hasn't gotten too hot lately but when he's on, he can expose defense like none other.

His defense also regularly gets exposed like none other. When Jody Meeks is blowing by you for a slam dunk, you need to work on that defense.

[Xsatyr]

Harden is the absolute worst kind of player there is. No defense, no team play, and relies solely on flopping to score..............

He was doing fine the first half of the season creating for others but he is worn out. Also his numbers dropped significantly when he got injured a couple months ago. He is shooting around 40% since his injury.

[mjokc]

He was doing fine the first half of the season creating for others but he is worn out. Also his numbers dropped significantly when he got injured a couple months ago. He is shooting around 40% since his injury.

I see a lot of people using that excuse but I believe teams have started to figure Harden out.

[Xsatyr]

I see a lot of people using that excuse but I believe teams have started to figure Harden out.

So every team figured him out at the same time? His numbers dropped immediately since tweaking his ankle and bruising his knee. His eurostep looks like garbage now and he has slowed down tremendously.

[shoops]

He was doing fine the first half of the season creating for others but he is worn out. Also his numbers dropped significantly when he got injured a couple months ago. He is shooting around 40% since his injury.
It's more than just being worn out I'd say. His decision making and habits have been shit-astic lately. What was up with those 2 or 3 lobs in a short span to Asik this game? No way in hell can Asik jump that high. Also, he's been dribbling away the clock, sizing up and trying to cross over the opponent for around 20 seconds before even trying to initiate a play or just dumping the ball off to a teammate. Don't know what's up with that.

[Xsatyr]

It's more than just being worn out I'd say. His decision making and habits have been shit-astic lately. What was up with those 2 or 3 lobs in a short span to Asik this game? No way in hell can Asik jump that high. Also, he's been dribbling away the clock, sizing up and trying to cross over the opponent for around 20 seconds before even trying to initiate a play or just dumping the ball off to a teammate. Don't know what's up with that.

He is tired and worn out. He runs iso plays bc they don't require much energy. It is Tmac all over again. He has slowed down and is not as effective getting to the rim. Not to mention refs started to swallow their whistles as playoffs approached. He needs to adapt his game and develop a mid-range game.

I know, 23 post.
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=237205&page=2

[brantonli]

Why blame the players when its obvious its their jackass of a coach? dude has 1 set play he runs all game long, dribble handoff > ISO, and the political idiot JVG said he was a COTY candidate, he's full of shit and doesn't even watch their games.

Brand new team, only Parsons and Greg Smith left from last year, implemented a completely new offense, most people predicted 20-30 wins, and you are saying that McHale doesn't deserve at least some consideration?


Whilst he won't win, and some of his rotations are truly puzzling (hmm, Jeremy Lin liked a couch so much, I think I'll keep him on the bench for longer), he's done a great job with this Houston team. Unfortunately, I don't think he can go very much further.

[Xsatyr]

Brand new team, only Parsons and Greg Smith left from last year, implemented a completely new offense, most people predicted 20-30 wins, and you are saying that McHale doesn't deserve at least some consideration?


Whilst he won't win, and some of his rotations are truly puzzling (hmm, Jeremy Lin liked a couch so much, I think I'll keep him on the bench for longer), he's done a great job with this Houston team. Unfortunately, I don't think he can go very much further.

Rockets win in spite of Mchale. This far into the season they should have some plays. Mchale is one of the only coaches I know who runs an iso play after a timeout.
Don't even get me started how he plays Delfino at the four. His rotations are putrid.

[shoops]

Rockets win in spite of Mchale. This far into the season they should have some plays. Mchale is one of the only coaches I know who runs an iso play after a timeout.
Don't even get me started how he plays Delfino at the four. His rotations are putrid.
Agreed. I thought he was a pretty bad coach, and I got used to it over time, and I thought he might have improved a little bit. But after some of these recent games where he got exposed, at the end of the day I think it's like shining shit and he's still a shit coach. His deficiencies are glaring as ever. They were getting dominated on the boards several times in a row in one of the quarters with Delfino was in vs Gasol, and he either didn't call a timeout or called a timeout but didn't take him out, I forgot exactly but it was just idiotic. :biggums:
That's just one of them too. He needs to go if these Rockets want to go anywhere.

[INDI]

TBH harden is a beast. Every time he gets the ball I get nervous, the dude possibly has the quickest first step in the league. I think he took a page out of lebrons book though because he knows that if he beats his man and attacks aggressively, he will make contact and 9x out of 10 he will get a whistle.

NTM soon as he gets the contact he tries to sell it like he's being hit (that's the part of the game that I hate).

[bmd]

He hasn't been the same since he got hurt.

He'll still get his numbers, but he has been much more inefficient in doing so.

[Ken_Masters]

This guy can't do anything if the opposing team stops him from turning the corner on a pick and roll. That's what Miami did in the finals, and he was garbage. He gets a ton of points when he backs up a few steps and gets a running start, but if the defense doesn't allow him to get running starts or turn the corner on pick and rolls, he is ineffective.

[PotOdds]

Harden is kinda like a young LeBron. He hasn't figured it out yet. He shows incredible flashes of brilliance but the winners are the ones who do it night in, night out over the course of a season.

I commented early in the season how I thought he possessed a level of maturity that you don't see in a player so young but his play of the last 2 month has shown otherwise. He's avging 5 TOs a game this month. In the last 5 games, he's had games with 9, 8, 6 turnovers. The play where he bull drives into the post looking for the foul without regards to actually making the shot is getting old. Yet he keeps doing it over and over again. Earlier when he was actually looking to make the shot, the fouls happened naturally.

[nosfan773]

no beard = no calls just something for the nba to hype up.

Thats interesting. Maybe he keeps that stupid ass beard to help accentuate his head jerks and flops.

[DMAVS41]

Did Harden try to blow that game in the 2nd half so he could play the Thunder? Thought crossed my mind last night.

[Element]

Refs been whistling him a bit better. He desperately needs a mid-range game. That abilty to be a triple threat from 18 feet (Dirk is the best at this!), that's what sets up your offense. When teams actually fear you out there, it gives you open space and multiple options to work with. You can't be one of the floor spreaders if you're a ball dominant superstar, unless you play the 4. That's ehy D'Antoni wanted Pau to be a shooter (it failed) because, yeah, while Kobe has a great 3-Ball when unguarded, he has the ball in his hands all the time and won't spread the floor as much as a Steve Nash spotting up (which is what Dumbtonin declined to do for a long time; it failed as well). That's why guys like him and Melo are much more valuable offensively than you might think and why teams like HOU will get exposed when the game slows down.

[PotOdds]

I seriously doubt that. Houston was 1-2 against OKC. While Harden had perhaps his best game against them in the one win, OKC led throughout that game but Houston caught momentum at the right time late in the 4th. I'm sure OKC will want payback.

Since the schedule is spaced out, so there's time for recuperation. I think Houston may win one or 2 games but OKC is heavily favored.

But damn, it's gonna be an exciting series.


Did Harden try to blow that game in the 2nd half so he could play the Thunder? Thought crossed my mind last night.

[Mr Exlax]

We need another threat to take some of the pressure off of him. Lin can create his own shot from time to time. Parsons will start creating more in the future too. Right now though, everything we can consistently get is outside. we don't have anybody in the post on offense. What else can he really do to get us point? He's getting fouled when he's driving to the basket. He's not flailing his arms. He's getting hit and finishing.

[B-Easy8]

Everytime I watch I see him flopping or shooting awful shots. In my opinion he cost the Rockets the game against the Lakers. That being said they don't really have another 'go to' scorer on that team.

[andremiller07]

If every player got the James Harden treatment from the refs no one would watch NBA basketball. Its just to much at times imo, never understood why elite players need extra help the guy is excellent regardless but its super annoying.

[Xsatyr]

If every player got the James Harden treatment from the refs no one would watch NBA basketball. Its just to much at times imo, never understood why elite players need extra help the guy is excellent regardless but its super annoying.

His treatment is no different. He just relied on a gimmick that many players caught onto to. He extends his arm when going for a layup to bait defenders. Most of the fouls on him are legit. The guy also gets abused a lot with no calls so it averages out.

[KungFuJoe]

I had high hopes for harden throughout most of the season. He appeared to be the goods.

But this recent "trend" of shitty play has gone on for way too long. Now I'm thinking he's just a hard headed idiot who refuses to adjust and just blames everyone else for his mistakes.

Watching him glare and complain at Asik (who is the hardest working player in the league) when he doesn't catch an alley oop that is 10 feet over his head or a bullet pass to his feet from 4 feet away shows what kind of teammate Harden is.

Maybe I'm wrong and his teammates love him, but what from I've seen, if I was on that Rockets squad, I'd want him gone.

People talk about Harden being the only scorer. Wrong. They are among the league leaders in points scored. Parsons is an excellent scorer, can make it from anywhere on the floor, and can create his own shot....was NON EXISTANT in the 4th and OT, except for that heroic shot that he only got after harden coughed up the ball. Lin is a capable scorer...delfino, smith, and a deep bench...but where were they late in the game? Nowhere to be found. That's cuz, late in the game, harden insists on being the hero...jacking up bad shots, dribbling the clock down, taking everyone else out of the game.

And then the way he doesn't play any ****ing D. That close out on Meeks was so weak. I mean ****ing MEEKS blows by you for a dunk during crunch time. MEEKS!!! And it happens so often in so many games.

I get that he's injured...and it's affecting him on both sides of the court. But goddamn if you're injured work on getting other people involved more and stop trying to force things. SO frustrating to watch Harden as a Rockets fan. It's like being a Laker fan all over again.

[Xsatyr]

I had high hopes for harden throughout most of the season. He appeared to be the goods.

But this recent "trend" of shitty play has gone on for way too long. Now I'm thinking he's just a hard headed idiot who refuses to adjust and just blames everyone else for his mistakes.

Watching him glare and complain at Asik (who is the hardest working player in the league) when he doesn't catch an alley oop that is 10 feet over his head or a bullet pass to his feet from 4 feet away shows what kind of teammate Harden is.

Maybe I'm wrong and his teammates love him, but what from I've seen, if I was on that Rockets squad, I'd want him gone.

People talk about Harden being the only scorer. Wrong. They are among the league leaders in points scored. Parsons is an excellent scorer, can make it from anywhere on the floor, and can create his own shot....was NON EXISTANT in the 4th and OT, except for that heroic shot that he only got after harden coughed up the ball. Lin is a capable scorer...delfino, smith, and a deep bench...but where were they late in the game? Nowhere to be found. That's cuz, late in the game, harden insists on being the hero...jacking up bad shots, dribbling the clock down, taking everyone else out of the game.

And then the way he doesn't play any ****ing D. That close out on Meeks was so weak. I mean ****ing MEEKS blows by you for a dunk during crunch time. MEEKS!!! And it happens so often in so many games.

I get that he's injured...and it's affecting him on both sides of the court. But goddamn if you're injured work on getting other people involved more and stop trying to force things. SO frustrating to watch Harden as a Rockets fan. It's like being a Laker fan all over again.

It is not just Harden, it's also Mchale's fault for not having an offensive scheme. Harden injuries, lack of mid-range game and refs swallowing their whistles is why he is struggling. He needs to quit looking to draw contact and go for the shot. He def has some work for the offseason but he is only 23.

"if I was on that Rockets squad, I'd want him gone." Well good thing you're not on the Rockets. I doubt his teammates share your view.

[NBAller]

:lol @ the idiots on this board discrediting hardens game. especially to those that say he's just some chucker that waits till the shot clock runs out to shoot a three. despite what comes out of some of yalls moronic mouths, he knows what he's doing out there and that is why he puts up 25ppg night in and out, aginst your favorite player and your most hated player.

if you see him chucking up a three most of the time it's because of aforementioned shot clock and that's just what the defense gives him. defensively you want the ball far away from the basket as possible. if you give a great shooter like him space then why wouldn't he take it? he has a high basketballl iq.

you dont get 25ppg 5ast 5rb or whatever he averages by being some bum that you are so used to seeing at your local park. he's putting those numbers up against the best of the best. stop the hate, start to appreciate. FEAR THE BEARD LETS GO PLAYOFF TIME BABY

[NBAller]

I had high hopes for harden throughout most of the season. He appeared to be the goods.

But this recent "trend" of shitty play has gone on for way too long. Now I'm thinking he's just a hard headed idiot who refuses to adjust and just blames everyone else for his mistakes.

Watching him glare and complain at Asik (who is the hardest working player in the league) when he doesn't catch an alley oop that is 10 feet over his head or a bullet pass to his feet from 4 feet away shows what kind of teammate Harden is.

Maybe I'm wrong and his teammates love him, but what from I've seen, if I was on that Rockets squad, I'd want him gone.

People talk about Harden being the only scorer. Wrong. They are among the league leaders in points scored. Parsons is an excellent scorer, can make it from anywhere on the floor, and can create his own shot....was NON EXISTANT in the 4th and OT, except for that heroic shot that he only got after harden coughed up the ball. Lin is a capable scorer...delfino, smith, and a deep bench...but where were they late in the game? Nowhere to be found. That's cuz, late in the game, harden insists on being the hero...jacking up bad shots, dribbling the clock down, taking everyone else out of the game.

And then the way he doesn't play any ****ing D. That close out on Meeks was so weak. I mean ****ing MEEKS blows by you for a dunk during crunch time. MEEKS!!! And it happens so often in so many games.

I get that he's injured...and it's affecting him on both sides of the court. But goddamn if you're injured work on getting other people involved more and stop trying to force things. SO frustrating to watch Harden as a Rockets fan. It's like being a Laker fan all over again.


should he take asik to get some ice cream after the game pat him on the back and say "Hey big guy, I really wish you would catch the ball. I mean it's ok if you don't there's always tomorrow...." oh wait...

they're grown men playing professionally if someone ****s up they **** up. If Asik was playing like Shaq he wouldn't be getting those glares, but he's Asik. He's really good and I appreciate his hard work, but he's no superstar and he's gonna **** up a lot more than Harden is. Nobody on the team is happy at the person that ****s up. If anyone should be given slack when they **** up it's Harden cause he's the leader and has the most pressure on him to play at his best every single night, or this team's seriously screwed.

don't be so sensitive.

[retaxis]

Harden is like a young Kobe but he ain't no Lebron. Harden did all he can physically and defensively in the finals but Lebron beasted on him regardless in the post. Power, Height, Strength and skill is what set these two apart.

[Xsatyr]

:lol @ the idiots on this board discrediting hardens game. especially to those that say he's just some chucker that waits till the shot clock runs out to shoot a three. despite what comes out of some of yalls moronic mouths, he knows what he's doing out there and that is why he puts up 25ppg night in and out, aginst your favorite player and your most hated player.

if you see him chucking up a three most of the time it's because of aforementioned shot clock and that's just what the defense gives him. defensively you want the ball far away from the basket as possible. if you give a great shooter like him space then why wouldn't he take it? he has a high basketballl iq.

you dont get 25ppg 5ast 5rb or whatever he averages by being some bum that you are so used to seeing at your local park. he's putting those numbers up against the best of the best. stop the hate, start to appreciate. FEAR THE BEARD LETS GO PLAYOFF TIME BABY

Recently he has been dribbling the clock out and passes the ball to a teammate. He is throwing teammates under the bus by doing that.

[NBAller]

Recently he has been dribbling the clock out and passes the ball to a teammate. He is throwing teammates under the bus by doing that.
it also puts your back against the wall driving you to the point of a do or die mindset, which is what happend when Parsons hit that game tying shot. Some people need that. Some fold.

[Heavincent]

you guys will be back on his balls when he goes bananas on OKC in 1 game of this series, like he did a lil while back

Sefolosha will lock him down.

I do like Harden though.

[Shepseskaf]

ISH had to endure at least two threads each week saying that Presti was an idiot for letting Harden go. Now we'll find out the truth.

[Xsatyr]

it also puts your back against the wall driving you to the point of a do or die mindset, which is what happend when Parsons hit that game tying shot. Some people need that. Some fold.

That is the stupidest thing I heard all week. Parsons got lucky hitting that line drive three. Good teams try to find the easiest basket but at times you have to take shots like the one Parsons hit. You don't dribble the clock out and take a low percentage contested shot.

[Xsatyr]

ISH had to endure at least two threads each week saying that Presti was an idiot for letting Harden go. Now we'll find out the truth.

How does Rockets losing to OKC justify the trade??? It's irrelevant.

[Shepseskaf]

How does Rockets losing to OKC justify the trade??? It's irrelevant.
:facepalm

Obviously, if OKC goes all the way and wins a 'chip, then the Harden trade is entirely justified.

People kept squealing that the Thunder would miss Harden and drop a few levels. Now we'll see.

[Xsatyr]

:facepalm

Obviously, if OKC goes all the way and wins a 'chip, then the Harden trade is entirely justified.

People kept squealing that the Thunder would miss Harden and drop a few levels. Now we'll see.

You didn't say anything about winning a championship in your post. I thought you were referring to the first round match-up. But even if they win a championship it does not mean they are better without Harden. It just means they could win it without him and Presti would no longer have to answer to anyone about the trade.

[KungFuJoe]

should he take asik to get some ice cream after the game pat him on the back and say "Hey big guy, I really wish you would catch the ball. I mean it's ok if you don't there's always tomorrow...." oh wait...

they're grown men playing professionally if someone ****s up they **** up. If Asik was playing like Shaq he wouldn't be getting those glares, but he's Asik. He's really good and I appreciate his hard work, but he's no superstar and he's gonna **** up a lot more than Harden is. Nobody on the team is happy at the person that ****s up. If anyone should be given slack when they **** up it's Harden cause he's the leader and has the most pressure on him to play at his best every single night, or this team's seriously screwed.

don't be so sensitive.

I understand but I wouldn't mind a "my bad" every now and then. Some of his passes to Asik were horrible and he still would glare at him or say something like it was his fault.

Harden seems like he has a "I can do no wrong attitude." I hope I'm wrong because he can be very very good when he's at the top of his game.

He needs more effort on D though. That is inexcusable.

McHale does deserve the bulk of the blame. The Rockets win in spite of him, not because of him. He is clueless out there.

[PickernRoller]

Harden just did what he's accustomed to doing. The problem is a motivated Howard was guarding the paint tonite - not the previous Howard of the past games this season, not Bynum or Gasol or any of the scrub Centers of this league.

Howard wasn't smiling tonite....

[Shepseskaf]

You didn't say anything about winning a championship in your post. I thought you were referring to the first round match-up. But even if they win a championship it does not mean they are better without Harden. It just means they could win it without him and Presti would no longer have to answer to anyone about the trade.
True, I wasn't clear about what I was referring to, but basically this season is all about OKC getting back to, and possibly winning, a championship without Harden.

[NBAller]

That is the stupidest thing I heard all week. Parsons got lucky hitting that line drive three. Good teams try to find the easiest basket but at times you have to take shots like the one Parsons hit. You don't dribble the clock out and take a low percentage contested shot.

then you must not read your own posts :pimp:

[Xsatyr]

then you must not read your own posts :pimp:

Nothing wrong with my post. They contain valid arguments and viewpoints some of which are subjective. Your post...

[Euroleague]

:lol @ the idiots on this board discrediting hardens game. especially to those that say he's just some chucker that waits till the shot clock runs out to shoot a three. despite what comes out of some of yalls moronic mouths, he knows what he's doing out there and that is why he puts up 25ppg night in and out, aginst your favorite player and your most hated player.

if you see him chucking up a three most of the time it's because of aforementioned shot clock and that's just what the defense gives him. defensively you want the ball far away from the basket as possible. if you give a great shooter like him space then why wouldn't he take it? he has a high basketballl iq.

you dont get 25ppg 5ast 5rb or whatever he averages by being some bum that you are so used to seeing at your local park. he's putting those numbers up against the best of the best. stop the hate, start to appreciate. FEAR THE BEARD LETS GO PLAYOFF TIME BABY

Harden is the biggest ball hog and most selfish player in the entire NBA.

[NBAller]

Harden is the biggest ball hog and most selfish player in the entire NBA.

:roll:

[Xsatyr]

Harden is the biggest ball hog and most selfish player in the entire NBA.

I miss seeing those red squares by your name.

[WayOfWade]

Watching the Laker game last night, Harden was doing what usually works when he just runs into defenders and draws fouls, but last night when they weren't being called because of Howard's defense, Harden just fell apart. I almost never didn't see him trying to go for a foul call.

[BlackVVaves]

Actually people need to stop looking at his FG% because how frequently he gets to the line and how well he converts on his attempts offsets it. That is what the stat true shooting percentage is for.

When your FG% is low due to low quality shots that ultimately waste multiple possessions and inhibit your team from placing themselves in winning position, that TS% shit doesn't matter. What does matter is impact and results.

No matter how much we try and boil sports down to statistics and numbers, sports are entities that you just watch to understand contextually, unless you are a golf fiend. Last night, Harden hurt his team down the stretch and in critical possessions. He dribbled the clock down and would pass the ball out with minimum seconds left on the clock - even in the LAST possession of regulation. And, more importantly, his team lost.

Injured or not, this board holds other players accountable when they perform subpar. Whether Bron, Kobe, Melo. These players play hurt all the time, yet are not given any leeway by most of ISH's most notable thread detractors when analyzing their performances. So, please don't give us that "But he's playing hurt!" nonsense.

If you want to label him a star, you better be prepared to scrutinize him as such.

[Electric Slide]

When your FG% is low due to low quality shots that ultimately waste multiple possessions and inhibit your team from placing themselves in winning position, that TS% shit doesn't matter. What does matter is impact and results.
being able to get to the free throw line and convert makes an impact and helps you get the result of winning, so yes it is relevant. last i checked, free throws are worth points too.

[KungFuJoe]

Harden is the biggest ball hog and most selfish player in the entire NBA.

He has definitely been playing this way as of late.

I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt due to his young age and being thrown into the fire as a "superstar". He was living up to it (and then some) early and mid season so perhaps it got to his head a bit.

He just needs to learn when to pull back and say to himself, "Ok...this isn't working...I gotta do something else".

But right now, he's in "square peg in the round hole" mode.

[Graviton]

And some said he was better than Westbrook. :roll:

Compared to Westbrook he is a horrible defender, even worse with turnovers, not as good a passer, takes even worse shots (3s over and over) while Westbrook at least attacks the rim, breaks down the defense and looks to score or pass to an open teammate instead of flopping for free throws every single time. :oldlol:

[BlackVVaves]

being able to get to the free throw line and convert makes an impact and helps you get the result of winning, so yes it is relevant. last i checked, free throws are worth points too.

When a particular game's performance is predicated on drawing fouls (which didn't occur last night because Dwight was locked in defensively) instead of creating high quality shots - all of which was culminated in the last critical possessions of a game - that "impact" you are referring to is negated by the detriment his play imposed on the team.

There's no way you can justify someone taking 13 3 point shots in a game, either. Unless you're Steph Curry, I don't want you taking anywhere NEAR that many threes.

[Electric Slide]

When a particular game's performance is predicated on drawing fouls (which didn't occur last night because Dwight was locked in defensively) instead of creating high quality shots - all of which was culminated in the last critical possessions of a game - that "impact" you are referring to is negated by the detriment his play imposed on the team.

There's no way you can justify someone taking 13 3 point shots in a game, either. Unless you're Steph Curry, I don't want you taking anywhere NEAR that many threes.
I have no idea what you just said but you act like drawing FTs and making FTs is irrelevant when it is clearly a big deal since they are free shots for points.

Harden has a Kobe-esque FG%, but he is one of the league leaders in FTA and is one of the better FT shooters in the league. He also shoots and makes a lot of 3s. He is ultimately efficient because of that.

FG% is a joke of a stat.

[Graviton]

I have no idea what you just said but you act like drawing FTs and making FTs is irrelevant when it is clearly a big deal since they are free shots for points.

Harden has a Kobe-esque FG%, but he is one of the league leaders in FTA and is one of the better FT shooters in the league. He also shoots and makes a lot of 3s. He is ultimately efficient because of that.

FG% is a joke of a stat.
How old are you? Please don't lie.

[Xsatyr]

And some said he was better than Westbrook. :roll:

Compared to Westbrook he is a horrible defender, even worse with turnovers, not as good a passer, takes even worse shots (3s over and over) while Westbrook at least attacks the rim, breaks down the defense and looks to score or pass to an open teammate instead of flopping for free throws every single time. :oldlol:

I'd still take him over Westbrook. This is his first year starting and leading a team. He's done a solid job but he does have some glaring weaknesses to work on.

[Graviton]

I'd still take him over Westbrook. This is his first year starting and leading a team. He's done a solid job but he does have some glaring weaknesses to work on.
Their playoff series will ultimately show who is better.

[Xsatyr]

Their playoff series will ultimately show who is better.

Really, how? It is only going to show who has a better team.

[Graviton]

Really, how?
By showing their overall impact on the court, every time I watch Harden his defense usually gives up 30-40% of the points he scores. His turnovers give the opponents more possessions, his whole game is focused on free throws and 3s. In the playoffs refs won't be gifting him so many free throws on his flops. You will see what he is really made of.

I think he will just vanish again against a quality defense like OKC, like he has against most elite teams this season.

[BlackVVaves]

I have no idea what you just said but you act like drawing FTs and making FTs is irrelevant when it is clearly a big deal since they are free shots for points.

Harden has a Kobe-esque FG%, but he is one of the league leaders in FTA and is one of the better FT shooters in the league. He also shoots and makes a lot of 3s. He is ultimately efficient because of that.

FG% is a joke of a stat.

And those FTA are largely because of his flops in the variation of sudden head jerks and flailing arms. As I already pointed out, if he comes across a formidable interior presence (Dwight last night, likely OKC in the post-season) or a rather swarming perimeter defense (Miami last June), his proficiency will dip in drastic fashion.

Harden is a very dynamic player, and can be troublesome due to his ability to create off the dribble, penetrate, get to the free throw line, and hit the 3. I'm not implying he's trash. What I AM saying however, is that he has too many games where he relies on getting calls from refs from contact he creates himself. He also has too many games when he settles for low percentage shots, and then passes the ball out to Lin or Parsons with 5 seconds or left on the shot clock (you mentioned Kobe's FG%, ironically and conversely, it's Kobe that is often tossed the ball after a broken play or possession with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock). His team takes after his habit to turn to ISO plays, and that's why they are a shitty half court team (which you will evidently see in the first round).

Again. There's no reason why a player should be going 4-13 in essentially the most important game of the season.

[Electric Slide]

And those FTA are largely because of his flops in the variation of sudden head jerks and flailing arms. As I already pointed out, if he comes across a formidable interior presence (Dwight last night, likely OKC in the post-season) or a rather swarming perimeter defense (Miami last June), his proficiency will dip in drastic fashion.
So you come across one example and you think this always happens when he plays against a good interior presence? :oldlol:

It doesn't matter how he draws the FTA because often times he gets it. He is also one of the leaders in and 1s. He is a tremendous finisher. If he wasn't getting all these FTAs, he would just be getting a lot of layups. It's an even trade off.

[Xsatyr]

By showing their overall impact on the court, every time I watch Harden his defense usually gives up 30-40% of the points he scores. His turnovers give the opponents more possessions, his whole game is focused on free throws and 3s. In the playoffs refs won't be gifting him so many free throws on his flops. You will see what he is really made of.

I think he will just vanish again against a quality defense like OKC, like he has against most elite teams this season.

The series is only going to show how much is required of Harden for them to even stay close to OKC. I would hate to see Westbrook as a first option. The Rockets would struggle if he was playing for the them instead of Harden. If Westbrook was on the Rockets and Harden was with OKC I guarantee you James would outplay him. It's an unfair advantage and a horrible way to compare players.

[Graviton]

The series is only going to show how much is required of Harden for them to even stay close to OKC. I would hate to see Westbrook as a first option. He would struggle if he was playing for the Rockets. If Westbrook was on the Rockets and Harden was with OKC I guarantee you James would outplay him. It's unfair advantage and a horrible way to compare players.
Well Westbrook already is a 1st option, and you think he would be worse with the fastest pace team in the league? If anything his points and assists would go up with that team's 3 point shooters and spacing. Wins wise they may be in the same position, but at least Westbrook would add more energy and defense.

James had his chance to outplay Westbrook in the Finals, he disappeared. How else do you want to compare players? Westbrook is a better defender, passer, has mid range game, can break down a defense to get people open shots and is a matchup nightmare. Harden is better at flopping, drawing fouls, shooting 3s and turning the ball over but he is also easy to stop by a good defense.

[Electric Slide]

Well Westbrook already is a 1st option,
:oldlol:


James had his chance to outplay Westbrook in the Finals, he disappeared. How else do you want to compare players?.
Who played better in the WCF and in the 1st round vs. Dallas?

[Graviton]

:oldlol:


Who played better in the WCF and in the 1st round vs. Dallas?
Westbrook was their best player against Dallas and Lakers. Durant/Harden against Spurs and Westbrook/Durant against Heat.

Westbrook had 3 good series, 1 below average series.
Harden had 1 good series, 1 ok series, 1 below average series, 1 vanishing act.

[Iceberg Slim]

knee jerk reaction as always.

[Xsatyr]

Well Westbrook already is a 1st option, and you think he would be worse with the fastest pace team in the league? If anything his points and assists would go up with that team's 3 point shooters and spacing. Wins wise they may be in the same position, but at least Westbrook would add more energy and defense.

James had his chance to outplay Westbrook in the Finals, he disappeared. How else do you want to compare players? Westbrook is a better defender, passer, has mid range game, can break down a defense to get people open shots and is a matchup nightmare. Harden is better at flopping, drawing fouls, shooting 3s and turning the ball over but he is also easy to stop by a good defense.

I'm done, you're not trolling me.

[BlackVVaves]

So you come across one example and you think this always happens when he plays against a good interior presence? :oldlol:

It doesn't matter how he draws the FTA because often times he gets it. He is also one of the leaders in and 1s. He is a tremendous finisher. If he wasn't getting all these FTAs, he would just be getting a lot of layups. It's an even trade off.

I gave you three examples - LA, OKC, and Miami. I also referenced the type of defenses he has struggled against, rather than just relying on one or two games.

But I guess I forgot you April 2013 posters can't count either.

[50_40_90_]

Chris Paul and Blake Griffin flop just as much as James Harden

[Electric Slide]

I gave you three examples - LA, OKC, and Miami. I also referenced the type of defenses he has struggled against, rather than just relying on one or two games.

But I guess I forgot you April 2013 posters can't count either.
How is relying on one or two games any different than relying on two to three games? :oldlol:

Harden's best games against Miami and OKC have come from their last meeting, which means that Harden adjusted his game to dominate them.

Harden struggled last year against the Lakers too, just not a team he plays well against. I doubt it was because of Bynum.