Duncan gets only 1 out of 30 ESPN (poll) votes for DPOY

[rmt]

ESPN votes for Defensive Player of the Year:

M. Gasol - 11
Tony Allen - 8
Noah - 6
Lebron - 2
Chandler - 1
Duncan - 1
Sanders - 1

Gasol - 7.8 reb/1 stl/1.7 blk in 35 min Def Rating 98.5 (#5) DefWinShr 5.4 (#2)
Allen - 4.6 reb/1.5 stl/0.6 blk in 26.7 min DR 98.4 (#4) DWS 4.1 (#15)
Duncan - 9.9 reb/0.7 stl/2.6 blk in 30.1 min DR 95 (#1) DWS 4.9 (#4)
Noah - 11.1 reb/1.2 stl/2.1 blk in 36.8 min DR 98.6 (#7) DWS 4.7 (#11)
Sanders - 9.5 reb/0.8 stl/2.8 blk in 27.3 min DR 98.5 (#6) DWS not top 20

Time argument: Tony Allen plays only 26.7 mins. Duncan 30.1 mins.

Top defensive team: Memphis has both Gasol/Allen - usually votes are diluted because voters don't know who's most responsible (same reasoning for Duncan/Bowen). MEM Def Rating 100.3 (2nd) SAS Def Rating 101.6 (#3)

Stats: Duncan is producing more in less time than Gasol and more than Allen

I wish the voters would be consistent in the criteria that they use. When Camby won DPOY, Denver was terrible at defense. Some years they go by stats, some years team defense, etc.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/DPOY-2013/2012-13-defensive-player-year?src=mobile

[westsideozzie]

These people dont know jack about basketball.

[oolalaa]

He didn't play enough minutes.

[HurricaneKid]

Sanders got 1 vote and he should be the run away winner.

[nosfan773]

Stein's the only guy I really respect at ESPN with the NBA.

[andremiller07]

I'm actually more shocked Marc Gasol got that many outside of people who consistantly watch Grizz games I have not really heard anyone talk about him. He would be a deserving winner as would Timmy D.

[lilgodfather1]

Gasol is a worthy DPOY, although I would like to see it go to Duncan. LeBron getting 2 votes is a joke imo.

[chips93]

I'm actually more shocked Marc Gasol got that many outside of people who consistantly watch Grizz games I have not really heard anyone talk about him. He would be a deserving winner as would Timmy D.

maybe im reading too much into it, but zach lowe is probably the most respected nba writer online, and hes a huge marc gasol fan, he called him his favorite player, and his DPOY, and i think his opinion really carries a lot of weight. like i said, i could be reading too much into this, but having an esteemed writer in your corner cant hurt your case.

[K Xerxes]

I saw that yesterday and didn't really get it. I don't mind any of Duncan, Gasol or Noah getting the award, but why is Duncan getting such little attention? I also saw some guy on NBA.com choose his winners from nominations, and Duncan wasn't even one of the 5 nominees (Ibaka was there lol). Ridiculous. If anything, I would have expected Duncan to easily win the award given that he hasn't won one yet and has been a stellar defender throughout his career.

On a separate note, LeBron has been spectacular on the offensive end of the spectrum, but this season his defense (particularly on-ball) at times has left something to be desired. I don't know why he's gotten any DPOY votes, and I'm not even sure he should be in the all defensive first team (IMO: Bradley, Allen, George, Duncan, Gasol).

[rmt]

He didn't play enough minutes.

That doesn't explain why Tony Allen who plays only 26.7 minutes (compared to Duncan's 30.1) got 8 times as many votes as Duncan.

[NBASTATMAN]

Gasol is a worthy DPOY, although I would like to see it go to Duncan. LeBron getting 2 votes is a joke imo.


:mad: .

[KyrieTheFuture]

Allen got those votes purely on reputation he was not that good this year. ESPN continues it's lack of quality

[dh144498]

lebron got more votes than Duncan.
:roll:

[dunksby]

ESPN so called experts buy to their own hype :lol

[TonyMontana]

Avery Bradley is the best defender in the NBA. Not one ****ing vote?

[Jolokia]

Two players on the same team as top vote getters. Doesn't make sense.

[1987_Lakers]

As much as I love Duncan he doesn't deserve DPOY, he's not a good pick & roll defender & his help defense isn't elite due to his lack of agility. Marc Gasol & Noah are more deserving, I would give it to Marc since Noah missed tons of games down the stretch.

[eSOL]

.....How the **** did duncan only get 1 vote?


Poll voters must've been on some strong ass crack

[TMT]

Straight disrespectful. :no: Spurs can't get credit for anything can they?

[theBIGjabroni]

bspn trying to market lefagggot once again. how does that scrub who doesn't play d get more votes than sanders and timmy

[monkeypox]

Defense is more than just numbers.

[MTing]

Embarrassing and disrespectful.

[eSOL]

bspn trying to market lefagggot once again. how does that scrub who doesn't play d get more votes than sanders and timmy


says theBIGfagggot

[Heavincent]

Most of those so called "experts" (Broussard, Abbott, etc.) don't really know shit about basketball. Just the way it is.

[AussieG]

So does this mean Marc will probably get it, or are these poll votes sometimes way off?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Avery Bradley is the best defender in the NBA. Not one ****ing vote?
LOL what?

He's good but so is Tony Alleny, Mike Conley, Iman Shumpert, Andre Iguodala, and a slew of others.

[SCdac]

Tyson Chandler won the award playing 33 mpg for 62 games (while averaging less blocks than Duncan) so I don't think minutes/games played automatically disqualifies Duncan.

[All Net]

alot of votes for Marc...

[DaSeba5]

LeBron getting more votes than Duncan is a joke. Only 1? Morons

Marc deserves it though. I'm happy for him.

[rmt]

So does this mean Marc will probably get it, or are these poll votes sometimes way off?

Don't know if these 30 particular ESPN voters are the ones voting for DPOY - wiki says that there are 124 voters from sportswriters and broadcasters throughout US and Canada who place 1st (5 pts), 2nd (3 pts) and 3rd (1 pt) place votes - highest total vote-getter gets the award.

So this poll is about 1/3 of the actual number.

[ThaRegul8r]

zach lowe is probably the most respected nba writer online, and hes a huge marc gasol fan, he called him his favorite player, and his DPOY

I tend to take what people say regarding a player they've openly stated they're a "huge fan" of and is their favorite player with a grain of salt. Not saying whether it's deserved or not, but oftentimes it's hard for people to be objective about their favorite player(s).

[eSOL]

Avery Bradley is the best defender in the NBA. Not one ****ing vote?


u wot m8?

[TheBigVeto]

Media hate against Duncan and the Spurs in general is crazy.

[Buckshot]

Sanders got 1 vote and he should be the run away winner.

thank u :bowdown:

[FreezingTsmoove]

Not even anchoring a top 10 D

[oolalaa]

I tend to take what people say regarding a player they've openly stated they're a "huge fan" of and is their favorite player with a grain of salt. Not saying whether it's deserved or not, but oftentimes it's hard for people to be objective about their favorite player(s).

He's a "huge fan" of Gasol in the same way that you're a huge fan of Bill Russell or 1976 Julius Erving - i.e, because he's a really good player.

[Scholar]

There would be a couple of ESPN clowns voting for LeBron. I bet one of them was Colin Cowherd.

[Droid101]

Sanders got 1 vote and he should be the run away winner.
Bingo.

The whole stupid "Tim Duncan should win!" thing is such bullshit.

[ThaRegul8r]

He's a "huge fan" of Gasol in the same way that you're a huge fan of Bill Russell or 1976 Julius Erving - i.e, because he's a really good player.

I find this odd, because I've never said I was a "huge fan" of anyone or anything in my life. I don't even use the word "fan" in regards to myself, either in speech/type or thought, as "fan" is short for "fanatic." I consider myself an appreciator.

I've talked about Russell before purely because of the fact that he's the GOAT candidate that people know the least about. There's a litany of Jordan fans who can copy and paste everything he's ever done at a moment's notice. Wilt's been well-represented by Judd "Air Judden" Vance, who put together the best site on Wilt I've ever seen, which has been widely cited by Wilt fans, and, on this board, jlauber/LAZERUSS. I believe it was fatal9 who's posted facts about Kareem, and I've seen other people do so as well. I talk about things most people don't know. I've also posted about Nate Thurmond, who was unfortunately overshadowed by Wilt and Russell and then forgotten, though on this board it's been derailed by people with agendas. Recently someone brought up Mutombo, and I said he was the best at combining rebounding and shotblocking since the league started officially keeping track, because it's something people didn't know, instead of repeating the same thing about players who always get talked about all the time.

And perhaps my memory is failing me, but I don't recall ever posting about '76 Julius Erving on this board. I've only mentioned Erving in passing, and that was to someone regarding a project of mine.

[HarryCallahan]

Duncan should win. I could handle Noah or Gasol winning (maybe even Sanders, though he only plays 25mpg). It's debatable that Gasol or Noah were better, but Timmy should have get it as a life-time achievement award.

T. Allen getting 8 votes is silly, have these guys seen any Grizz games this year? I'd guess not, because his defence isn't as good as last year (still good enough for first team imo)

LeBron is ridiculous, the dude has played some horrible, inattentive D this year, waaaay too inconsistent, shouldn't have gotten any votes.

[oolalaa]

I find this odd, because I've never said I was a "huge fan" of anyone or anything in my life. I don't even use the word "fan" in regards to myself, either in speech/type or thought, as "fan" is short for "fanatic."

I'm sure you havn't. You come across as someone who chooses their words very carefully.


I consider myself an appreciator.

And so does Zach Lowe. That's all I'm pointing out. I've read most of what he's written over the last year and I don't recall him explicitly saying he's a "huge fan" of Marc Gasol. And even if he did, that's only because of his appreciation for his basketball skills. There is no NBA writer more objective than Zach Lowe.


And perhaps my memory is failing me, but I don't recall ever posting about '76 Julius Erving on this board. I've only mentioned Erving in passing, and that was to someone regarding a project of mine.

I remember reading through the "50 Highest Peaks project" threads on RealGM and coming across something like "I'd still take '76 Julius over any version of Lebron." which I found a little striking at the time (and completely absurd, but that's another issue). I just happen to remember that it was you who said it.

[Bandito]

Avery Bradley is the best defender in the NBA. Not one ****ing vote?
:facepalm


I think Tony and Gasol, M deseve the DPOY this year.

[clayton]

LOL @ LeBron being voted in DPOY. :facepalm

[ThaRegul8r]

I consider myself an appreciator.

And so does Zach Lowe. That's all I'm pointing out.

It's hardly the same. It's taking what seems to be a superficial similarity in order to draw a parallel.

I categorically reject the notion of being a "fan." In the same way that Charles Barkley said "I am not a role model," I am not a fan. In the past I've juxtaposed the scarcity of people who simply appreciate greatness when and wherever it is with "fans" who denigrate, detract, disparage and belittle anything and anyone who poses a current or historical threat to whomever they're a "fan" of. "Fans" who must bring other people down in order for the players they're a "fan" of to look good in comparison, because to them it's a zero-sum game. "Fans" who will use any means necessary in order (including blatant fabrications, falsifications and distorting/twisting/omission of facts) to further their agenda. And when I've talked about this before on this board, one poster replied, "that's what fans do."

Hunh. Really now?

Since "that's what fans do" then, I am most assuredly not a fan and I repudiate it. (And I won't even get into "fans" who will beat down people who root for the opposing team who happen to be in their stadium/arena, or who riot and do damage to their own city when their team wins a championship.) I can guarantee that Zach Lowe does not feel the same way I do, and I would venture to say that he hasn't so much as given any thought to it, so, no, it isn't remotely the same thing.


I remember reading through the "50 Highest Peaks project" threads on RealGM and coming across something like "I'd still take '76 Julius over any version of Lebron." which I found a little striking at the time (and completely absurd, but that's another issue). I just happen to remember that it was you who said it.

And where from that do you get me being "a huge fan?" I'm genuinely curious. Another poster who participated in that project asked if Erving's '76 season could be considered, and I said that I'd put some stuff out there about that season and see what other people have to say about where it should be ranked, as I wasn't one to make lists (to this day I have never made a personal GOAT player list, team list, or any type of list historically ranking any athlete in any sport in numerical order. I've had numerous people ask me over the years if I would share my GOAT list with them, but the fact of the matter is I don't have one and have never attempted to make one). It has nothing to do with "being a huge fan," and everything to do with raising historical awareness. As I said, I talk about what most people don't know, not the same things that get discussed ad nauseum. The latter doesn't in any way further the body of knowledge available.

Erving led his team in scoring, rebounds and assists, and took a team that their own coach said were "a lot of role players"

[oolalaa]

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]It's hardly the same. It's taking what seems to be a superficial similarity in order to draw a parallel.

I categorically reject the notion of being a "fan." In the same way that Charles Barkley said "I am not a role model," I am not a fan. In the past I've juxtaposed the scarcity of people who simply appreciate greatness when and wherever it is with "fans" who denigrate, detract, disparage and belittle anything and anyone who poses a current or historical threat to whomever they're a "fan" of. "Fans" who must bring other people down in order for the players they're a "fan" of to look good in comparison, because to them it's a zero-sum game. "Fans" who will use any means necessary in order (including blatant fabrications, falsifications and distorting/twisting/omission of facts) to further their agenda. And when I've talked about this before on this board, one poster replied, "that's what fans do."

Hunh. Really now?

Since "that's what fans do" then, I am most assuredly not a fan and I repudiate it. (And I won't even get into "fans" who will beat down people who root for the opposing team who happen to be in their stadium/arena, or who riot and do damage to their own city when their team wins a championship.) I can guarantee that Zach Lowe does not feel the same way I do, and I would venture to say that he hasn't so much as given any thought to it, so, no, it isn't remotely the same thing.



And where from that do you get me being "a huge fan?" I'm genuinely curious. Another poster who participated in that project asked if Erving's '76 season could be considered, and I said that I'd put some stuff out there about that season and see what other people have to say about where it should be ranked, as I wasn't one to make lists (to this day I have never made a personal GOAT player list, team list, or any type of list historically ranking any athlete in any sport in numerical order. I've had numerous people ask me over the years if I would share my GOAT list with them, but the fact of the matter is I don't have one and have never attempted to make one). It has nothing to do with "being a huge fan," and everything to do with raising historical awareness. As I said, I talk about what most people don't know, not the same things that get discussed ad nauseum. The latter doesn't in any way further the body of knowledge available.

Erving led his team in scoring, rebounds and assists, and took a team that their own coach said were "a lot of role players"

[ThaRegul8r]

I very clearly was implying that you were both "appreciators." I knew this before I responded to you the first time. And, in fact, considering I did favourably compare you to the best NBA writer on the interwebs, you should be grateful. Although, having said that, you probably see this an insult, considering you intimated that he was basically an unthinking sheep compared to yourself. You are irritatingly arrogant.

This is the last time I'm going to respond, as it seems a pattern is beginning to develop, and I wish to nip things in the bud and address it.

Before I do that, though. Let's put personal emotions aside for a moment, and clear things up by looking at the facts.

FACT: I said nothing about, nor intimated anything of the sort about Zach Lowe—or anyone, actually—being an "unthinking sheep." You've projected your latent dislike of me and consequently are seeing things that aren't there, as well as presuming to know how I—an anonymous person on the Internet whom you know nothing about—perceive things.

FACT: I initially said nothing about Zach Lowe specifically, I replied to someone who said Lowe was a huge Marc Gasol fan, that Gasol was his favorite player, and Gasol was his DPOY. I said that I tend to take what people say about their favorite players with a grain of salt, because oftentimes it's hard for people to be objective about their favorites (this was actually the subject of a study of mine once). There is no accusation of Lowe there, and I specifically said I wasn't saying that Lowe was right or wrong in this particular case (i.e., Marc Gasol being defensive player of the year). I gave a general rule of thumb. Had chips93 just said "Zach Lowe is probably the most respected NBA writer online and he has Marc Gasol as his DPOY," that would have been fine, and I wouldn't have replied to the post. But adding that Gasol happens to be his favorite player and he's a huge fan isn't a fact that in and of itself would add any credibility to the opinion. Didn't even say that Lowe was biased, or even dispute the selection. You can replace the names "Zach Lowe" AND "Marc Gasol" in the post I replied to, and I still would have made the same post. The particular names were irrelevant and unimportant. I even said that I am not excluded from that. I did not give myself an exemption as I don't believe in double standards.

FACT: The only time I actually mentioned Zach Lowe by name in either post is when I said he didn't feel the same way about "fans," as I do, and didn't disassociate himself from "fandom" as I have (I said I guaranteed that he didn't feel the same way I did because he's actually said he was a fan). There was no insult of Lowe there, nor did I "intimate" he was an "unthinking sheep."

FACT: What I said (i.e., the words I actually typed) was that he didn't feel the same way about it as I do, which is a factually true statement. He hadn't thought about the things I said just as I haven't given any thought to engineering (chosen randomly because of a brief conversation with someone who said he was studying engineering), or marijuana legalization, or forensic pathology, or any one of a host of other subjects I haven't given any deep thought to. It isn't an insult to him or me, it's a factual statement.

I'm not going to proceed any further, as I see it would clearly be pointless, and it falls upon cooler heads to prevail. If one knows better, then it falls upon one to do better. But I will also point out the fact that one doesn't even have to like a player in order to appreciate him, let alone be "a huge fan." One can say, for instance, that one didn't care for Shaq's game—hated it even, preferring instead someone like Hakeem (more aesthetically pleasing), but nevertheless, one can appreciate his dominance. One can also say that one can appreciate the fact that the Spurs have won four titles since Duncan arrived and that they've won 50 games every year, but nevertheless personally find them boring and not like them. These are just two examples that come to mind, though I'm sure others could just as easily be made.

Finally, interestingly enough, in my last post I spoke about being able to express displeasure with someone without resorting to ad hominems, and you reply by beginning with a backhand and ending with an insult, while in between falsely attributing something to me that is not said nor intimated in the words that were actually typed. Now, once before—last November, you said I was an off-putting intellectual snob (which was actually the first time you ever addressed a post toward me if I'm not mistaken, and in reply to a post that didn't even concern you, and wasn't on a general discussion topic that was open for general comment), and those feelings have resurfaced now. I didn't even give it the dignity of a response then, but since it's apparently still an issue, I must now to prevent it from recurring.

Since I am apparently such an irritation for you that you've continued to harbor this five months later and for who knows how long before then, the simple solution would be to simply put me in your ignore list and thus never have to deal with it again. It makes no sense for one to deliberately make the choice to read the posts of someone one finds so annoying, unless one is a masochist. So the best thing to do would be to put me on ignore, and I would appreciate it if you would not reply to any more of my posts in the future. I am not insulting you (veiled nor overt), nor calling you names, as my only feeling toward you is indifference. This thread is the only interaction I've ever had with you, so I have no reason to feel any differently toward you than I would toward any other random poster. Since there's a problem, I'm suggesting a solution in an adult manner so that this doesn't continue any further. So good day to you, good weekend, and I shall go my way and I hope you can go yours. Hopefully this is the last of this, though the only person whose actions I can control are my own.

[rmt]

M. Gasol 2 rebs / 0 stl / 0 blks in 40:54
Allen 0 rebs / 0 stl / 0 stl / 0 blks in 16:30

giving up 112 points in their most important game of the year so far. So much for DPOY :banghead:

[KyleKong]

This doesn't make sense to me, Duncan in my opinion should have finished at least second. Marc Gasol does deserve to win though.