LeBron's decision was a smart one.

[NBAller]

He no longer has to carry 90% of the load. The role players on Miami are all better than the starters he started with on Cleveland. His goal is to win championships, so this was the smartest career move he could have made for himself. It's clear that's all he wants too, otherwise he wouldn't have left. I'm sure he knew he would be hated for switching teams, but to a man that just wants championships, that shit doesn't matter. I'm truly happy for the man now that a lot of it is said and done.

Also take note how every other superstar that traded to other teams didn't get half the shit he got for leaving. CP3 to play with that deep squad, Howard got some shit for going to LA.

he's just lucky he doesn't have to play the rockets cause we'd crush his dreams.:D

[Crafty]

It might have been the right decision. But he did it the wrong way.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Clearly it's easier to win a Championship with Wade and Bosh. But his success is not as meaningful as it would have been had he managed to do it in Cleveland. He's accomplished a great deal and I absolutely don't want to sound like I'm belittling winning Championships and MVPs no matter the team you do it for. But he himself is not the hometown hero in Miami like he was as a Cav. He wasn't just a ballplayer there, he was a pillar of the economy that people depended on, a symbol of hope for a state that wasn't just down in sports but in life. He will never be as socially and economically as significant as he could have been and to me that's the missed opportunity.

And just on the court, I prefer to see more competitive spirit in superstars. HE should have been looking to surpass Wade's ring count, not enhance it.

Certainly doesn't make him a bad guy and I'm not judging him as such I just feel like he could have been a lot more significant than he is/will be, even though he is and will be an all-time great.

[chips93]

He no longer has to carry 90% of the load. The role players on Miami are all better than the starters he started with on Cleveland. His goal is to win championships, so this was the smartest career move he could have made for himself. It's clear that's all he wants too, otherwise he wouldn't have left. I'm sure he knew he would be hated for switching teams, but to a man that just wants championships, that shit doesn't matter. I'm truly happy for the man now that a lot of it is said and done.

i dont think he had any idea of the vitriol that would come his way. no idea.

[Trollsmasher]

Funny, how getting role players to play for you is an easy task for him now. That shows how was Cavs' FO pathetic.

[kennethgriffin]

that remains to be seen


if he won a title and finals mvp in cleveland during a real season and not a lockout. it would be worth 50000000 times as much


i think he would have gotten atleast one there.... if he wins a few more in miamia and atleast one without wade... then itel be a good decision

[ripthekik]

Great, he won rings.

But I don't he will get any respect or appraise for it. This year they will win. So what? Ain't nobody's impressed.

Congrats Lebron, you sabotaged your own career. Have fun with those rings.

[longtime lurker]

Clearly it's easier to win a Championship with Wade and Bosh. But his success is not as meaningful as it would have been had he managed to do it in Cleveland. He's accomplished a great deal and I absolutely don't want to sound like I'm belittling winning Championships and MVPs no matter the team you do it for. But he himself is not the hometown hero in Miami like he was as a Cav. He wasn't just a ballplayer there, he was a pillar of the economy that people depended on, a symbol of hope for a state that wasn't just down in sports but in life. He will never be as socially and economically as significant as he could have been and to me that's the missed opportunity.

And just on the court, I prefer to see more competitive spirit in superstars. HE should have been looking to surpass Wade's ring count, not enhance it.

Certainly doesn't make him a bad guy and I'm not judging him as such I just feel like he could have been a lot more significant than he is/will be, even though he is and will be an all-time great.

:applause: great post

[TheMarkMadsen]

He's playing alongside 2 top 15 players in the league, 2 other all star starters. Not to mention the career leader in 3pters in Ray Allen along with superb role players in Battier & Chalmers.

This HEAT team is more stacked than any championship team in the past 15 years.

[Trollsmasher]

He's playing alongside 2 top 15 players in the league, 2 other all star starters. Not to mention the career leader in 3pters in Ray Allen along with superb role players in Battier & Chalmers.

This HEAT team is more stacked than any championship team in the past 15 years.

And their offense and defense are still entirely dependable on him.

For example Bosh/Wade (without James) combo is net negative. One would say that two top 15 players + 3 great role players would be able to be at least somehow positive.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

He's playing alongside 2 top 15 players in the league, 2 other all star starters. Not to mention the career leader in 3pters in Ray Allen along with superb role players in Battier & Chalmers.

This HEAT team is more stacked than any championship team in the past 15 years.

Why're you counting Bosh and Wade twice?

[iamgine]

Certainly doesn't make him a bad guy and I'm not judging him as such I just feel like he could have been a lot more significant than he is/will be, even though he is and will be an all-time great.
Disagree. Bird, Magic and MJ all won with stacked teams. Olajuwon and Dirk who won with much inferior supporting cast definitely isn't seen as great as these guys were.

[Kurosawa0]

This is no longer a debate really. Miami had better talent, a better organization and simply a better city.

[AlphaWolf24]

Funny, how getting role players to play for you is an easy task for him now. That shows how was Cavs' FO pathetic.


- reigning DPOY Ben Wallace?.....Shaq?.....Jamison?....

- when Cavs picked up Jamison ( allstar caliber player who played great against the Cavs in the playoffs).....everyone said it would put Cleveland over the top and easily make them Championship contenders..

- and it did!!!...they won 66 games and lost to the ECChampions in the ECFinals! in a close series.( lost 1 game by 1 point and another in OT)

- Cavs had a great team.....and were close to winning a title.....until Lebron left.

[Bandito]

Why're you counting Bosh and Wade twice?
He meant Westbrook and Durant last year:pimp:

[JMT]

Leaving Ohio for Florida is pretty much always a sound decision.

[NBAller]

He's playing alongside 2 top 15 players in the league, 2 other all star starters. Not to mention the career leader in 3pters in Ray Allen along with superb role players in Battier & Chalmers.

This HEAT team is more stacked than any championship team in the past 15 years.

So ****ing what? If they switched LeBron with you, they'd be significantly worse. Have some respect.

[NBAller]

that remains to be seen


if he won a title and finals mvp in cleveland during a real season and not a lockout. it would be worth 50000000 times as much


i think he would have gotten atleast one there.... if he wins a few more in miamia and atleast one without wade... then itel be a good decision

lmao, what?

It'll be a good decision if he wins one without wade? . they teamed up with the same goal in mind and that's to win championships. that was the decision, how the **** is that even close to being a bad decision?

The man wants championships, he doesn't want to be your ideal basketball player that you think all superstars should be.

If his supporting cast in cleveland didn't suck so much he probably wouldn't have left.

[pegasus]

And their offense and defense are still entirely dependable on him.

For example Bosh/Wade (without James) combo is net negative. One would say that two top 15 players + 3 great role players would be able to be at least somehow positive.
Who cares about that +/- shit. What's their record without any of their superstars?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

should have signed with Dallas

Cavs would have traded him.

[theBIGjabroni]

wont get respect from real bball fans. leshortcut is a hoe

[Mr Exlax]

Who cares about that +/- shit. What's their record without any of their superstars?

What was Clevland's record when he was out and what's Miami's record when he's out?

[ihatetimthomas]

Yes it was. People will say it hinders him by teaming up but it actually is making him even bigger by doing so. Even with the talent he plays with, he is still considered by and far the best player in the world. He is playing out of his mind. People wondered whose team it would be but he has clearly taken this team. He is the leader. He is dominating the game and playing it right. How he left will always be sour but in just a few short years, most people are starting to forget how he left. Winning heals all and the more titles he wins, the less people will care how he left (except Cavs fans)

[ReturnofJPR]

I thought this thread was going to be about LeBron's decision to start wearing 3 headbands instead of 2.

[ProfessorMurder]

He should've won in 2010, and definitely would've won a few around this time if he stayed in Cleveland. Look at how weak the East is.

He could've won but he bitched out.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He should've won in 2010, and definitely would've won a few around this time if he stayed in Cleveland. Look at how weak the East is.

He could've won but he bitched out.

This. Guy quit against Boston AND nobody will ever convince me otherwise. I don't fault him for any of the years prior to 2010, though.

[PJR]

Micky Arison, Pat Riley, Erik Spoelsta. Two great & unselfish players in Wade and Bosh, who's only motives are to win. South Florida living? It was a no brainer.

[All Net]

As it sounds out it is looking like the best thing he has ever done...

[All Net]

He should've won in 2010, and definitely would've won a few around this time if he stayed in Cleveland. Look at how weak the East is.

He could've won but he bitched out.

He would never of won anything with that roster...

[NBAller]

I thought this thread was going to be about LeBron's decision to start wearing 3 headbands instead of 2.


:roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

So ****ing what? If they switched LeBron with you, they'd be significantly worse. Have some respect.


You're right if they replaced Lebron with ME they WOULD be worse..

damn i guess they aren't as stacked as i though :roll:

[NBAller]

You're right if they replaced Lebron with ME they WOULD be worse..

damn i guess they aren't as stacked as i though :roll:

They are 'stacked'. I don't think anyone will dispute that. I'm sure the HEAT themselves will be the first to say so, like Artest has said about the Lakers.

That's the whole point of the decision. That's why it's a smart decision........

If you have anything but winning on your mind, then you aint thinking right.

[DaSeba5]

He did it the wrong way, but he had the right to leave. He was never going to win a championship there. His life and career is more important to him than what you people think of him.

[ShaqAttack3234]

He should've won in 2010, and definitely would've won a few around this time if he stayed in Cleveland. Look at how weak the East is.

He could've won but he bitched out.

He could have beat Boston had he played anywhere near his usual level after getting the 2-1 lead, and they would have matched up better with Orlando than they had the previous year, but Cleveland did not look like they were in a great position to win titles after 2010, much less a lock.

Look at the 2010 team, Shaq was 38 and would be 39 the next season, Z and Anthony Parker were 35 and Jamison was 34. Those were 4 of their rotation players from 2010. They tried building around Lebron with veterans, and did contend for 2 seasons, but those players barely had any time left. Cleveland had struck out pretty much every time they tried to get one of the big free agents and as long as they had Lebron, they were going to be too good to get a lottery pick.

Saying he definitely would have won a few is a strange assumption considering it didn't look like they were going to be better than they had been in '09 and '10.

The bitched out thing is ridiculous as well. He played out his contract, had a ton of suitors, and picked what he thought was the best situation. That's the whole point of free agency. He earned his ring as much as anyone with the level he played at last season.

[BBallZen83]

He could have beat Boston had he played anywhere near his usual level after getting the 2-1 lead, and they would have matched up better with Orlando than they had the previous year, but Cleveland did not look like they were in a great position to win titles after 2010, much less a lock.

Look at the 2010 team, Shaq was 38 and would be 39 the next season, Z and Anthony Parker were 35 and Jamison was 34. Those were 4 of their rotation players from 2010. They tried building around Lebron with veterans, and did contend for 2 seasons, but those players barely had any time left. Cleveland had struck out pretty much every time they tried to get one of the big free agents and as long as they had Lebron, they were going to be too good to get a lottery pick.

Saying he definitely would have won a few is a strange assumption considering it didn't look like they were going to be better than they had been in '09 and '10.

The bitched out thing is ridiculous as well. He played out his contract, had a ton of suitors, and picked what he thought was the best situation. That's the whole point of free agency. He earned his ring as much as anyone with the level he played at last season.
Good objective, logical post man. More posters in here needed like you. If I'm correct you rep the lakers, yet you give respect where respect is due. No over blown dick sucking or hate spewing idiocy. Rep to you sir if i could give it.

[DaSeba5]

He could have beat Boston had he played anywhere near his usual level after getting the 2-1 lead, and they would have matched up better with Orlando than they had the previous year, but Cleveland did not look like they were in a great position to win titles after 2010, much less a lock.

Look at the 2010 team, Shaq was 38 and would be 39 the next season, Z and Anthony Parker were 35 and Jamison was 34. Those were 4 of their rotation players from 2010. They tried building around Lebron with veterans, and did contend for 2 seasons, but those players barely had any time left. Cleveland had struck out pretty much every time they tried to get one of the big free agents and as long as they had Lebron, they were going to be too good to get a lottery pick.

Saying he definitely would have won a few is a strange assumption considering it didn't look like they were going to be better than they had been in '09 and '10.

The bitched out thing is ridiculous as well. He played out his contract, had a ton of suitors, and picked what he thought was the best situation. That's the whole point of free agency. He earned his ring as much as anyone with the level he played at last season.

This is why you're my favorite poster here. You always provide a fair objective argument. There's no agenda here.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Disagree. Bird, Magic and MJ all won with stacked teams. Olajuwon and Dirk who won with much inferior supporting cast definitely isn't seen as great as these guys were.
1: It's not just about rings. The first group has a lot more MVPs than the second.

2: If it didn't matter how the rings are won no one would mention James having to join Wade.

3: You didn't address a very important part of my post. The social and economic significance he had for Cleveland and Ohio were huge.

[Y2Gezee]

Always going to tarnish his legacy for me. I can't watch a guy who is probably the best player in the world, and probably the best pure basketball overall talent in history from a skill and physical standpoint...run to join a team that was going to be good enough to win with him or without him, when he had multiple other choices to join and could've joined other superstars/stars like Blake Griffin, Brook Lopez, Derrick freakin Rose, etc....and he joins 2 other superstar players including his chief rival...Can't watch that and be impressed by him.

I've played basketball, and the history of the game supports the fact that playing with good/great players makes you better. It's no accident that Lebron/Wade/Bosh are shooting career highs...teams have to cover you differently because of who you play with. It's no accident that Durant is shooting at a career high, playing with a top 10 player like Westbrook.

It's one thing if it happens sort of organically, but that's clearly not the case here. He simply took the easy way out, and that's fine, but don't expect me to respect your accomplishments as much as I do some other greats. Even his MVP trophy this year means less to me.

It's like if the Lakers had Shaq/Kobe and cleared enough space to pick up Tmac in like 04. It's not a knock on Shaq/Kobe, Tmac was the one to join and make things easy for himself to finally get over the hump.

I'm actually enjoying watching the Big 3 play, its fun for the league, brings eyeballs to the screens. However, don't read me this guy's stat sheet and tell me how he's everything for the Heat when 2 others have sacrificed to really highlight him, and a plethora of replacement stars could take James' spot and the Heat would be the favorite to win it all.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

1: It's not just about rings. The first group has a lot more MVPs than the second.

2: If it didn't matter how the rings are won no one would mention James having to join Wade.

3: You didn't address a very important part of my post. The social and economic significance he had for Cleveland and Ohio were huge.

People only do that because they're trying to discredit his accomplishments. It's kind of like when people say Kobe didn't earn his first three rings because he played with Shaq despite making huge contributions in the 2001 and 2002 playoffs.

[Pointguard]

I think this team has a chance to be great and among the greatest in the modern era. Why not go for being the greatest on a great team. His style of play matches that moreso than him trying to be GOAT. He's just more suited to be called the GOAT team player than just GOAT.

I really don't think anybody will look back and say Wade and Bosh were great compliments to Lebron. He still had to lead his team in rebounds, assist and points (avg) for close to 300 games now. They're all play like SF's when you really look at it. Wade isn't really a shooter. Pat Riley kept plugging away to make the team what it is now. It seems like all of the major contributors are having a career year. The team is like an extension of Lebron whereas, in Cleveland it was a team he had to save. They know how to win, have fun together and he gets to be with lifetime friends. In life you rarely get the Lebron situation unless you make it happen. You will acquire pain getting there, but you will have that in your bad situation for a longer period of time anyway.

If you come out of a tough situation or place in life, you always know that it is better to be in a better situation than trying to change what is around you. You give those who have invested in you a chance but you don't owe them your life. It isn't disloyal if folks are making millions off of you either when you are the cream of the crop. You earned your place to be the most desired person in your field, you earned whatever perks come with that.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Good objective, logical post man. More posters in here needed like you. If I'm correct you rep the lakers, yet you give respect where respect is due. No over blown dick sucking or hate spewing idiocy. Rep to you sir if i could give it.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Not a Laker fan, though. People probably make that mistake because Shaq was my favorite player.

[Real Men Wear Green]

People only do that because they're trying to discredit his accomplishments. It's kind of like when people say Kobe didn't earn his first three rings because he played with Shaq despite making huge contributions in the 2001 and 2002 playoffs.
Or they want to put the magnitude of what he's done in context. He is great and is in the midst of what will be remembered as one of the greatest careers ever. but to me it's fair to question how competitive he really is.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Or they want to put the magnitude of what he's done in context. He is great and is in the midst of what will be remembered as one of the greatest careers ever. but to me it's fair to question how competitive he really is.

True. They're looking really dominant this season. But I hardly think it'll be a cakewalk like many people here think. Pacers and Knicks have both given them trouble this season.

Also, you can't really knock what Lebron did last season during the playoffs. Bosh was down for most of the Pacers and Celtics series. The role players really played like crap until the Finals. And Wade was inconsistent in the Celtics series.

I can understand if you say that about this year since they've been actually playing like a real team and don't depend on Lebron as much as they did last season.

[DMV2]

Playing with Wade and Bosh in the Eastern Conference.

LeBron was truly a genius!

Why bust your ass competing against FIVE 56+ wins teams when you can play a sub-500 team in the first round? You also get to play three teams with less than 30 wins in your division.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Or they want to put the magnitude of what he's done in context. He is great and is in the midst of what will be remembered as one of the greatest careers ever. but to me it's fair to question how competitive he really is.


here's your answer: competitive until he doesn't get his way

He's gone through his entire life being bigger, stronger & faster than everybody else, when he entered the NBA he assumed it was a forgone conclusion that he would fall into multiple rings..

He didn't, and became frustrated. If Lebron could have won a title with the Cavs it would have been huge, the team was built PERFECTLY for a player with Lebrons skill set, for 2 straight years they were the favorites to win the title..

Fact is there isn't a single incident in NBA history where the reigning MVP leaves his team to go join another all NBA 1st team players team. Lebron will probrably never win a ring w/o a former FMVP by his side

[Goldrush25]

Always going to tarnish his legacy for me. I can't watch a guy who is probably the best player in the world, and probably the best pure basketball overall talent in history from a skill and physical standpoint...run to join a team that was going to be good enough to win with him or without him, when he had multiple other choices to join and could've joined other superstars/stars like Blake Griffin, Brook Lopez, Derrick freakin Rose, etc....and he joins 2 other superstar players including his chief rival...Can't watch that and be impressed by him.

I've played basketball, and the history of the game supports the fact that playing with good/great players makes you better. It's no accident that Lebron/Wade/Bosh are shooting career highs...teams have to cover you differently because of who you play with. It's no accident that Durant is shooting at a career high, playing with a top 10 player like Westbrook.

It's one thing if it happens sort of organically, but that's clearly not the case here. He simply took the easy way out, and that's fine, but don't expect me to respect your accomplishments as much as I do some other greats. Even his MVP trophy this year means less to me.

It's like if the Lakers had Shaq/Kobe and cleared enough space to pick up Tmac in like 04. It's not a knock on Shaq/Kobe, Tmac was the one to join and make things easy for himself to finally get over the hump.

I'm actually enjoying watching the Big 3 play, its fun for the league, brings eyeballs to the screens. However, don't read me this guy's stat sheet and tell me how he's everything for the Heat when 2 others have sacrificed to really highlight him, and a plethora of replacement stars could take James' spot and the Heat would be the favorite to win it all.

I can respect where you're coming from.

But honestly I can also respect where Lebron is coming from. You articulate well what a lot of people who hate the guy can't say, that the problem is that the Heat weren't assembled "organically." But to that I say, how many players can it really happen that way for? We've seen many a great players toil with underacheiving teams for years, chasing maximum dollar instead of moving on to greener pastures while they can still win. The "typical" thing for Lebron to do would've been to sign a max contract with Cleveland and continue on whatever course he was headed to anyway. We can say that he may have won a title in Cleveland but of course we have no way of knowing that. What we do know is that he has won in Miami.

If a star player is stuck with a second rate front office that won't or can't acquiese to the player's desires, the player either knuckles under and takes the money or he leaves town. We've seen players knuckle under for decades for whatever reason.


What if the Bulls never drafted Scottie Pippen? Does MJ still 3-peat? Probably not. What if the Lakers never got Kobe? Do the Lakers still 3-peat? It takes a hell of a lot of things going right for the "organic" process to materialize. Rarely it does, most often it doesn't.

Bottom line is work smarter, not harder. I get the hate for "The Decision." Completely self-indulgent, and I'd like to think he'd take it back if he had it to do again. But yeah, he did make the right decision. If winning is your ultimate goal, why wouldn't you put yourself in the best possible scenario to do so? It's completely counter-intuitive to do what some fans say is the "right" way to do things. Bite and claw for years to *maybe* win a championship when the stars align?? Stars don't stay in second rate organizations because they prioritize winning. They stay there to get top dollar.

[Bandito]

He did it the wrong way, but he had the right to leave. He was never going to win a championship there. His life and career is more important to him than what you people think of him.
That's always been the problem the How he did it. He's such a moron:roll: . He ruin his image by himself. Kobe had to rape someone in order to ruin his image and it wasn't as bad as lebron.

[NBAller]

Always going to tarnish his legacy for me. I can't watch a guy who is probably the best player in the world, and probably the best pure basketball overall talent in history from a skill and physical standpoint...run to join a team that was going to be good enough to win with him or without him, when he had multiple other choices to join and could've joined other superstars/stars like Blake Griffin, Brook Lopez, Derrick freakin Rose, etc....and he joins 2 other superstar players including his chief rival...Can't watch that and be impressed by him.

I've played basketball, and the history of the game supports the fact that playing with good/great players makes you better. It's no accident that Lebron/Wade/Bosh are shooting career highs...teams have to cover you differently because of who you play with. It's no accident that Durant is shooting at a career high, playing with a top 10 player like Westbrook.

It's one thing if it happens sort of organically, but that's clearly not the case here. He simply took the easy way out, and that's fine, but don't expect me to respect your accomplishments as much as I do some other greats. Even his MVP trophy this year means less to me.

It's like if the Lakers had Shaq/Kobe and cleared enough space to pick up Tmac in like 04. It's not a knock on Shaq/Kobe, Tmac was the one to join and make things easy for himself to finally get over the hump.

I'm actually enjoying watching the Big 3 play, its fun for the league, brings eyeballs to the screens. However, don't read me this guy's stat sheet and tell me how he's everything for the Heat when 2 others have sacrificed to really highlight him, and a plethora of replacement stars could take James' spot and the Heat would be the favorite to win it all.


Like someone either in this thread or another thread as mentioned, Dirk has done it with no superstars, but sure enough people started to hype Jason Terry up (look how he's doing now?) they hyped Marion up and just about every other role player to discredit the win, and Dirk. Sort of like what they're doing with Miami now. I can't think of a championship team that didn't either have A) the most dominant player in the league or B) a stacked team with at least two superstars besides Dirk and I THINK Olajuwon? but then again I haven't been watching the NBA since it started running.

Besides people are acting like the current Lakers, Nuggets, Thunder, Knicks are all cakewalks. They act like this is really just given to Miami. Someone in this thread already said "Miami wins, who cares?" ( I bet he was sucking Jordans dick though).

All that aside I still haven't seen one legitimate reason in this thread that would sway my opinion otherwise. How was this a bad decision? I'll wait.

[NBAller]

I can respect where you're coming from.

But honestly I can also respect where Lebron is coming from. You articulate well what a lot of people who hate the guy can't say, that the problem is that the Heat weren't assembled "organically." But to that I say, how many players can it really happen that way for? We've seen many a great players toil with underacheiving teams for years, chasing maximum dollar instead of moving on to greener pastures while they can still win. The "typical" thing for Lebron to do would've been to sign a max contract with Cleveland and continue on whatever course he was headed to anyway. We can say that he may have won a title in Cleveland but of course we have no way of knowing that. What we do know is that he has won in Miami.

If a star player is stuck with a second rate front office that won't or can't acquiese to the player's desires, the player either knuckles under and takes the money or he leaves town. We've seen players knuckle under for decades for whatever reason.


What if the Bulls never drafted Scottie Pippen? Does MJ still 3-peat? Probably not. What if the Lakers never got Kobe? Do the Lakers still 3-peat? It takes a hell of a lot of things going right for the "organic" process to materialize. Rarely it does, most often it doesn't.

Bottom line is work smarter, not harder. I get the hate for "The Decision." Completely self-indulgent, and I'd like to think he'd take it back if he had it to do again. But yeah, he did make the right decision. If winning is your ultimate goal, why wouldn't you put yourself in the best possible scenario to do so? It's completely counter-intuitive to do what some fans say is the "right" way to do things. Bite and claw for years to *maybe* win a championship when the stars align?? Stars don't stay in second rate organizations because they prioritize winning. They stay there to get top dollar.


:applause: :applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Like someone either in this thread or another thread as mentioned, Dirk has done it with no superstars, but sure enough people started to hype Jason Terry up (look how he's doing now?) they hyped Marion up and just about every other role player to discredit the win, and Dirk. Sort of like what they're doing with Miami now. I can't think of a championship team that didn't either have A) the most dominant player in the league or B) a stacked team with at least two superstars besides Dirk and I THINK Olajuwon? but then again I haven't been watching the NBA since it started running.

Besides people are acting like the current Lakers, Nuggets, Thunder, Knicks are all cakewalks. They act like this is really just given to Miami. Someone in this thread already said "Miami wins, who cares?" ( I bet he was sucking Jordans dick though).

All that aside I still haven't seen one legitimate reason in this thread that would sway my opinion otherwise. How was this a bad decision? I'll wait.


that's not true at all, he got some hype due to some big shots like this http://nsa28.casimages.com/img/2011/09/05/110905062930416927.gif

But nobody was seriously considering him to be a legit 2nd option to a championship team.. people also brought JT up a lot due to not only the big shots like i showed above but also because he outplayed (well, outscored Lebron in the finals and that was a big deal for a bench player to do)

So yeah, JT & Marion got some love due to big shots & in Marions case his defense on Lebron, but everybody realizes that these are not your typical 2nd & 3rd best players on a championship team

[Pointguard]

Always going to tarnish his legacy for me. I can't watch a guy who is probably the best player in the world, and probably the best pure basketball overall talent in history from a skill and physical standpoint...run to join a team that was going to be good enough to win with him or without him, when he had multiple other choices to join and could've joined other superstars/stars like Blake Griffin, Brook Lopez, Derrick freakin Rose, etc....and he joins 2 other superstar players including his chief rival...Can't watch that and be impressed by him.

You're stressing way too much on how teams are put together rather than what they are. Bosh didn't play a lot in their championship run. Wade wasn't himself either. So I would much more have preferred prime Shaq in one set than those two. I would have preferred McHale and Parrish in another set, and Kareem and Worthy in another set, Pippen and Rodman in another set, Westbrook and Harden/Ibaka in another set. They cover much more bases than Wade and Bosh. Lebron was competing against a reality of how things come to be rather than a basketball fan's conception of how things should be done.

The harshest reality is that either things get done or they don't. You can keep up with the world or get left behind. You either make your best decision or you don't.

What I find amazing is that Rose and Lebron were easily the two biggest competitors in the league. When a star player lines up across from them they are the only two you can count on giving an all out game. Pierce is close. But you guys who are so hard core against Lebron, I never see yall, talk about competition unless its to dog Lebron. I don't recall you as a poster so its not personal here.


I've played basketball, and the history of the game supports the fact that playing with good/great players makes you better. It's no accident that Lebron/Wade/Bosh are shooting career highs...teams have to cover you differently because of who you play with. It's no accident that Durant is shooting at a career high, playing with a top 10 player like Westbrook.
Durant is conscious of his quality of shots. He usually follows Lebron's lead.

Lebron is playing a flat out quality game all over the court. Its real rare to lead the league in points in the paint and shoot 40% from three. Its rare to lead your team in all the major categories for three years and they win a great percentage of them. Its even harder when you say he has great teammates - there's a reason why nobody else has done that. His teammates don't make him the best all around defender in the game. His teammates don't make him a sound decision maker. If you choose not to see quality its on you. Don't blame his decision. A true fan wouldn't let that get in the way anymore than realizing that there are dynasties in the sport.



It's like if the Lakers had Shaq/Kobe and cleared enough space to pick up Tmac in like 04. It's not a knock on Shaq/Kobe, Tmac was the one to join and make things easy for himself to finally get over the hump.

I'm actually enjoying watching the Big 3 play, its fun for the league, brings eyeballs to the screens. However, don't read me this guy's stat sheet and tell me how he's everything for the Heat when 2 others have sacrificed to really highlight him, and a plethora of replacement stars could take James' spot and the Heat would be the favorite to win it all.
Curious, do you feel that way about the current Lakers?

[Ne 1]

He would never of won anything with that roster...

That's not what all the ESPN experts, Cavs/LeBron fanbase and LeBron James himself were saying.

http://oi43.tinypic.com/v8elpi.jpg

http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/issue-133-shaq-lebron.jpg


"It

[All Net]

Ne 1 I agree with what you posted...people did believe the hype and thought because those players came up big in the regular season and won so many games which is why they were favourites against teams they had no business being favourites against.

Magic for one killed them in their main weaknesses. Mo Williams was an all-star that one year due to how well he played in the regular season but a team of one superstar and role players isn't getting it done vs better balanced teams. It's why people do get things confused with regular season and playoff basketball.

Jamison for one people saw his very good stats on a bad team and thought it would carry over and didn't.

[pegasus]

"It’s also important to me to make the team I’m on now the best," says James about his Cavaliers team. "I don’t want to go "Ring - Chasing" as I call it, you know. Going to a team that’s already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion. And I feel like we’re on our way." -LeBron James

OMG!:roll: That's too delicious, it's gotta be fattening!:roll:

[Goldrush25]

[QUOTE=pegasus]"It

[HoopsFanNumero1]

[QUOTE=pegasus]"It

[HoopsFanNumero1]

That's not what all the ESPN experts, Cavs/LeBron fanbase and LeBron James himself were saying.


The ESPN "experts" were also saying Lakers would dominate...

[diamenz]

ya it's sorta like how ewing went to the bulls to win. oh wait, that didn't happen.

lebron gets no respect.

[jzek]

Clearly it's easier to win a Championship with Wade and Bosh. But his success is not as meaningful as it would have been had he managed to do it in Cleveland.

Kobe's titles are also not as meaningful. He did it with prime Shaq, prime Pau, and the GOAT coach. It would have been meaningful had he won a title without either of those 3 but we all know what happened (lost in the first round, missed the playoffs, lost in the first round again... then demanded to be traded).

Same with KG's, PP, and Allen's. They only won after teaming up and couldn't do it by themselves.

LBJ was the only one who reached the Finals with a scrub team.

[AlphaWolf24]

He could have beat Boston had he played anywhere near his usual level after getting the 2-1 lead, and they would have matched up better with Orlando than they had the previous year, but Cleveland did not look like they were in a great position to win titles after 2010, much less a lock.

Look at the 2010 team, Shaq was 38 and would be 39 the next season, Z and Anthony Parker were 35 and Jamison was 34. Those were 4 of their rotation players from 2010. They tried building around Lebron with veterans, and did contend for 2 seasons, but those players barely had any time left. Cleveland had struck out pretty much every time they tried to get one of the big free agents and as long as they had Lebron, they were going to be too good to get a lottery pick.

Saying he definitely would have won a few is a strange assumption considering it didn't look like they were going to be better than they had been in '09 and '10.

The bitched out thing is ridiculous as well. He played out his contract, had a ton of suitors, and picked what he thought was the best situation. That's the whole point of free agency. He earned his ring as much as anyone with the level he played at last season.


- Totally disagree...they also had great young talent in Hickson and Varajeo....

- They had solid role players and great perimeter play.

- again, they were great enough to win 60+ games 2 years traight....mainly due to the teams great defense and rebounding ..

( and of course Lebron James all world play)...but the Cleveland team had good young talent who knew how to rebound and play great defense.

- remember the Heat lost to a Mavs team that was really old!....and basically just upgraded to a above average defensive minded center.( Chandler)


- no doubt the Cavs break through once Lebron expanded his overall game ( like he did in 12')

- also ...saying he " played out his contract.....and just went to the best situation" is silly.....and gives no pulse to what everyone really thought of teh situation.

- In what situation does the hometown kid leave his hometown team/fans after winning 66 and 61 games....( MVP....plays in the finals a few years before.....has teh best record in the league....)...and says it's not a great situation????

it was a great situation.....leaving a 61 win team.....and saying you are never going to win is F'ing CRAZY!

[AlphaWolf24]

Ne 1 I agree with what you posted...people did believe the hype and thought because those players came up big in the regular season and won so many games which is why they were favourites against teams they had no business being favourites against.

Magic for one killed them in their main weaknesses. Mo Williams was an all-star that one year due to how well he played in the regular season but a team of one superstar and role players isn't getting it done vs better balanced teams. It's why people do get things confused with regular season and playoff basketball.

Jamison for one people saw his very good stats on a bad team and thought it would carry over and didn't.


this makes no sense...

- they played great in the Playoff's...and made it to the ECFinals...??

- how is it some people say a 66 team wasn't meant for the playoff's??...when they make it to the ECFinals??

- even in 2010...they lost to the ECChampions..:confusedshrug: ..

- were the 11' Heat not meant for the playof's because they lost to the WCChampions?? ( many people blame Lebron for disappearing in the Finals)


- If Lebron plays like " 2012' Lebron" in 09' and 10'.....Cavs get to the Finals and possibly win.

- Lebron refined his game...that's why teh Heat won.....he could have done that in Cleveland if he stayed.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's so funny to me... For years, people said Cavs fans needed to "move on" from James. I rarely if I ever see threads about James created by Cavs fans.

However, there is a constant looking back by his fans on his years in Cleveland.

Who cares? He has been gone for three years. Everything that could possibly be discussed has been discussed at extreme length. Move on.

[Just2McFly]

April 19, 2013

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm jst trying to keep it 100% pure....

- in no world does a basketball fan say a 66 win team that makes it to the ECFinals...or a 61 win team that loses to the ECChampions is not a good team/playoff team..

- again....answer me this...was the 11' Heat not meant for the playoff's?

they lost in the Finals ( just like the 07' Cavs)...

- I'm done with it...I used to prop LBJ up on platform...I knew he would bring Cleveland a Title...I knew he would never leave and play for his hometown forever!...I knew he was real...I knew he would change history and bring Ohio what it deserves!

F that sh!t......I'm done with that B!tchz.....great , he is a champion now....personally I think he is a good man.....but what he did aint right.

:lol at anyone saying a 60 win team wasn't good enough.....y'all are Fing crazy.

[Goldrush25]

ya it's sorta like how ewing went to the bulls to win. oh wait, that didn't happen.

lebron gets no respect.

Maybe he should've.

Mind you, I loved those early 90s Knicks teams. They're the reason I started watching basketball and I wanted them so badly to beat Chicago. But Ewing just didn't have the horses behind him. Now what is he remembered for? Being Scottie Pippen's biotch. That's what he gets for doing things the "right" way?

Now I'm a grown man and I don't idealize the way a player's career should be. Rings and money are all that count when a career's said and done. Get them however you can. If you can get both get both.

[SpecialQue]

I see Lebron as a successful corporation merging with other successful corporations and driving out competing businesses. It's a smart move, but it doesn't mean that I like it. He had every right to do it though, and since he wanted championships, why not? I just don't like it, but he's not going to lose any sleep over one random guy's opinion on him.

Lebron's a great player, and one of the best to ever play the game, but I would think that most people just don't like the decision he made, even if it was smart and is bringing him more success than he's ever had. It's an emotional reaction, not a logical one.

[Goldrush25]

I see Lebron as a successful corporation merging with other successful corporations and driving out competing businesses. It's a smart move, but it doesn't mean that I like it. He had every right to do it though, and since he wanted championships, why not? I just don't like it, but he's not going to lose any sleep over one random guy's opinion on him.

Lebron's a great player, and one of the best to ever play the game, but I would think that most people just don't like the decision he made, even if it was smart and is bringing him more success than he's ever had. It's an emotional reaction, not a logical one.

That's totally fair. I remember being a Saints fan in the mid-90s and was so pissed when Deion Sanders went to the 49ers and then Cowboys. I was like @#%^, like they need more help. But looking back on it, I was only mad because they were so good. What sense does it make to hate on a team for being too good?

My perspective now is you just have to tip your hat and appreciate game. It's like hating on the guy that always gets hot women. Don't hate, get yours.

It's Pat Riley's doing. Who else in the summer of 2010 even thought it was possible to get all 3 of those guys together?? Was Chicago talking about it? Was New York talking about it? Nope, they were talking about getting 1 or maybe 2 of the 3. And that's the big difference. Pat Riley was the only one that thought he could get all 3 and that's why it happened for him. I believe if Chicago would've offered all 3, they'd be in Chicago. Same goes for New York.

Really, he thought like the Lakers of old thought. Why? Because he was a Laker. Lakers have always been the team to go out and take what they want. That's why they have the chips. That's all Riley did. He went and took what he wanted while everyone else was just hoping they'd get 1 or 2 of the 3. It's the difference between a top front office executive and second rate ones.

[2006suns]

i agree with the guy who said lebron ended up enhancing dwyade's ring count instead of countering it. he turned from the guy who could've had a magic-bird rivalry vs. wade but turned into the other guy's mercenary of sorts. i wonder if this has ever happened before. something that will go like bird going to l.a to team up with magic, wilt teaming up with russell, mj teaming up with barkley, and so on...

[Pointguard]

- Totally disagree...they also had great young talent in Hickson and Varajeo....

You used the word great. For the next two years they were subpar players.


- They had solid role players and great perimeter play.

You used the word great again. Who was solid? Mo would make about 5 FG per playoff game while shooting 40% and he was the shooter. Jamison was just a little bit better. The great Varajeon and Hickson were worth 9ppg and 7 rebounds together. In the playoffs Lebron lead the team in every major category by huge margins. None of them could be depended on in the playoffs.


- again, they were great enough to win 60+ games 2 years traight....mainly due to the teams great defense and rebounding ..
Once again you said great. No all team defenders and the best rebounder in the playoffs outside of Lebron was Jamison at 7.4.


- no doubt the Cavs break through once Lebron expanded his overall game ( like he did in 12')
Lebron improved his game just about every year.


- In what situation does the hometown kid leave his hometown team/fans after winning 66 and 61 games....( MVP....plays in the finals a few years before.....has teh best record in the league....)...and says it's not a great situation????

it was a great situation.....leaving a 61 win team.....and saying you are never going to win is F'ing CRAZY!

You are basically saying he should depend on Jamison and Mo who hadn't proven they could handle playoff pressure - in fact looked really inept. A team with no real strengths outside of his play. They had one of the worse teams ever when he left. Yeah Lebron is worth 60 wins on bad team but the playoffs. Not one of his teammates played well.

[All Net]

Has to be said even in his prime Jamison always struggled when the pressure was on. Jamison made that Cavs team so much worse defensively....and it showed.

[Cangri]

Has to be said even in his prime Jamison always struggled when the pressure was on. Jamison made that Cavs team so much worse defensively....and it showed.
Yeah I still remember Garnett just straight up destroying Jamison.

[diamenz]

Maybe he should've.

Mind you, I loved those early 90s Knicks teams. They're the reason I started watching basketball and I wanted them so badly to beat Chicago. But Ewing just didn't have the horses behind him. Now what is he remembered for? Being Scottie Pippen's biotch. That's what he gets for doing things the "right" way?

Now I'm a grown man and I don't idealize the way a player's career should be. Rings and money are all that count when a career's said and done. Get them however you can. If you can get both get both.

but you and i obviously see it different than everyone else. the new generation today would call him pippen's bitch, while people that actually watched the games remember ewing as the great player he was and he, along with malone, mark and stock get no less respect than mj and the bulls.

i do hear what you're saying though.

[Goldrush25]

but you and i obviously see it different than everyone else. the new generation today would call him pippen's bitch, while people that actually watched the games remember ewing as the great player he was and he, along with malone, mark and stock get no less respect than mj and the bulls.

i do hear what you're saying though.

I feel bad for Ewing that he never won the big one. But utimately that was his choice.

Give it another 10 years and only the most diehard basketball fans will even remember Patrick Ewing existed. Everyone knows MJ though. Why, because he got the chips. The more time passes, all people remember are the championships, not the people who lost doing it the "right" way.

Rings are what count. The best athletes make a choice as to what is important in their careers.

[NBAller]

What people meant by Cav fans need to move on is that they need to stop being butthurt/mad/sour/angry/rage/whatever word you want to use. Like burning his jersey? seriously? lol, or just hating the man in general for basically saying **** cleveland, and it's gm. Or telling other fans to move on because that's what you were told, like....move on already lol

Creating threads on the topic like mine is another story.

I'm also not 100 on the fact that those analysts provide their honest opinions on who they think will win. I think sometimes they do things for ratings or whatever.

and if Ewing wanted to stay in NY that's his decision, I'll respect that decision as much as I'll respect Brons decision to take his talents down south. I could be ridiculous and just absolutely trash Ewing for making that decision as well with shit like "Oh he's just a big giant panzy afraid of what fans will think of him if he decides to play with Jordan".

i like the way someone simply put it earlier.... Work smarter, not harder.

[HiphopRelated]

i agree with the guy who said lebron ended up enhancing dwyade's ring count instead of countering it. he turned from the guy who could've had a magic-bird rivalry vs. wade but turned into the other guy's mercenary of sorts. i wonder if this has ever happened before. something that will go like bird going to l.a to team up with magic, wilt teaming up with russell, mj teaming up with barkley, and so on...
This will always be a false argument because Bird and Magic had competent front offices.