LeBron James IS what Grant Hill COULD'VE been. Agree/Disagree?

[Scholar]

6'8", sub-200 lb SF who can play any position required of him.

Grant Hill before the career altering injury averages:
http://imageftw.com/uploads/20130420/Capture.PNG

LeBron James' career stats:
27.6/7.3/6.9/1.7 on .490/.337/.747

What they had in common:
- Neither are (or in younger Hill's case, were) great 3-pt shooters
- Guys who seemingly could score at the basket at will
- Incredible passers
- Arguably the best rebounders (outside of true big men)

You can say LeBron is the better scorer, but we truly don't know how different Hill's stats could've been if he hadn't been injured. In the 1999-2000 season, he averaged 25.8 ppg, so maybe if he had been healthy throughout his late-20's to early 30's, he could've averaged close to 27 per game.

I have a feeling some LeBron fans will find this to be disrespectful, but that's probably because most of them started watching basketball in 2010. Grant Hill was toted as the next best player. If he had remained healthy, he obviously would've given any MVP a run for their money. Hill was probably the best all-around player in the '90s... And yes, that's even looking at Pippen.

So what do you guys think? Agree or disagree?

[inclinerator]

nope, maybe on lebron's worse year

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Lebron James is Grant Hill on steroids.

[LikeABosh]

Poor mans Lebron

[knickswin]

lebron is wayyyy bigger, faster, and more explosive than grant hill

hill had better footwork though

[SyRyanYang]

Lebron is top5 rebounding SF but not the Best:lol

[Myth]

Grant Hill was great and would have been greater than we have seen him, but he wouldn't have been better than LeBron.

[LikeABosh]

Is Lebron even top5 rebounding SF?
Best?:lol
Lebron is #1 in the league in rebounding outside of C/PFs.....:coleman:

[chazzy]

It's not like he got hurt when he was 20.. we saw him at 27

[chosen_wun]

:kobe:

Those are just slightly above rookie LeBron numbers..

[SyRyanYang]

Lebron is #1 in the league in rebounding outside of C/PFs.....:coleman:

a. Numbers don't tell the whole story
b. I don't even need to look up to know J-Smoove has more RPG.

[LikeABosh]

Hill would never have sniffed 27 ppg, 57% shooting, 41% from three, 8 rebounds and 7 assists

[inclinerator]

a. Numbers don't tell the whole story
b. I don't even need to look up to know J-Smoove has more RPG.
josh smith is a pf

[LikeABosh]

a. Numbers don't tell the whole story
b. I don't even need to look up to know J-Smoove has more RPG.
Josh Smith gets just .4 rebounds per game more...and he's a PF

[Noyze]

This is a solid comparison actually. LeBron is alittle better then Grant Hill (in his prime) at everything. LeBron is faster, shoots alittle better from 3, bigger and stronger. But Hill could break down his man better, overall Hill had better individual moves with a great crossover and stutter step. Hills mid range game was better, Bron post up better.

The biggest difference imo was on the defensive end. Hill didn't start playing great def till he got to phoenix, and even then Bron is just a better overall defender.

[Haymaker]

Poor mans Lebron this

[SyRyanYang]

josh smith is a pf


Josh Smith gets just .4 rebounds per game more...and he's a PF

I know you bandwagoners don't really watch any games so I'm just gonna tell you this straight up: Lebron plays PF way more often than Josh this year

[Dave3]

This is a solid comparison actually. LeBron is alittle better then Grant Hill (in his prime) at everything. LeBron is faster, shoots alittle better from 3, bigger and stronger. But Hill could break down his man better, overall Hill had better individual moves. Hills mid range game was better, Bron post up better.

The biggest difference imo was on the defensive end. Hill didn't start playing great def till he got to phoenix, and even then Bron is just a better overall defender.
He's more than a little bit better. He's a much better scorer, and he's also much better at shooting 3s. LeBron shot 41% on 3s this year on 3 attempts a game. Grant Hill's best during that span was 35% on 1 attempt a game.

LeBron's career average is 34% on 4 attempts, Hill's was 26% on .5 attempts.

[LikeABosh]

I know you bandwagoners don't really watch any games so I'm just gonna tell you this straight up: Lebron plays PF way more often than Josh this year
Not really. Haslem and Bosh start and Battier plays alot at the 4. Lebron more often than not is playing outside running the offense. Josh Smith is inside all the time and way more of a traditional PF.

[PJR]

LeBron was better than Grant Hill EVER was as a 2nd year player, at 19 years old.

[chosen_wun]

This site shows how many boards Josh Smiths gets when logging minutes at SF compared to what LeBron gets at SF.

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&season=2012&player_ids[]=574&player_ids[]=163

Change both their positions to SF and see for yourself.

[Living Being]

Grant Hill COULD'VE never been the joke LeBron has become. He was an awesome player, but can't touch LeBron when it comes to being immature.

Grant Hill without injuries is a more offensive-minded, softer version of Scottie Pippen.

[pauk]

That there was his best after many years.... similar type of breed/style of players, but he was more closer to the level of a Pippen, without the defense.

[Hoopz2332]

hill and lebron really aren't that similar outside of the fact that they were all around players. lebron is a far better scorer w/o question.

[Sarcastic]

Grant Hill is so overrated on this forum. He has nothing on Lebron James, and never COULD be at that level.

[Legends66NBA7]

More like what Tracy McGrady could've been. I'd say even Vince Carter.

[Psycho]

Grant Hill don't choke yo. This be an embarrassment yo. :facepalm

[Hoopz2332]

Grant Hill don't choke yo. This be an embarrassment yo. :facepalm


Grant Hill was just as much of 2nd round virgin as T-mac:oldlol:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/376304-tracy-mcgrady-or-grant-hill-who-is-more-hall-of-fame-worthy

[I.R.Beast]

Hill would never have sniffed 27 ppg, 57% shooting, 41% from three, 8 rebounds and 7 assists
hill never had wade and bosh to inflate his efficiency

[wakencdukest]

Who can really say how good Grant Hill would have been? Injuries cut his career in half. He was well on his way to becoming one of the best players in the league, and was definitely the most versatile. Personally, I think he could have done everything LeBron does, except he didn't dominate the ball half as much.

[Lebron23]

Grant Hill was just as much of 2nd round virgin as T-mac:oldlol:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/376304-tracy-mcgrady-or-grant-hill-who-is-more-hall-of-fame-worthy


Prime Mcgrady was better than Prime Grant Hill in the regular season, and in the playoffs. Grant Hill is like a Poor Man's version of LeBron. Just what Sarcastic said he wasn't in the same level as LeBron. A 21 yrs.old LBJ is already a top 2 MVP Candidate.

[b1imtf]

Prime Mcgrady was better than Prime Grant Hill in the regular season, and in the in the playoffs.
No shit?

[che guevara]

Who can really say how good Grant Hill would have been? Injuries cut his career in half. He was well on his way to becoming one of the best players in the league, and was definitely the most versatile. Personally, I think he could have done everything LeBron does, except he didn't dominate the ball half as much.
:facepalm Hill was 28 years old when he got injured. He wasn't getting much better, if at all. He was who he was at that point.

[Phenith]

Hill was probably the last player with a shot at a triple double season before LeBron, it's a true shame his ankle took him out of the game for his prime. Hill had all time great written all over him until injuries hit him.

[secund2nun]

More like a 37 year old Lebron is what Grant Hill could have been. Prime Lebron is leagues above Grant Hill as good as Hill was.

[Phenith]

:facepalm Hill was 28 years old when he got injured. He wasn't getting much better, if at all. He was who he was at that point.

He was already putting up incredible statlines, and players with that kind of skill playing the wing have a long prime, he had at least 4-6 years of prime left that we didn't get to see. He came into the league at what 22? That's 4 years older than LeBron, he didn't have the mileage on him that high schoolers do at that age. He wasn't LeBron, but he was damn good.

[wakencdukest]

:facepalm Hill was 28 years old when he got injured. He wasn't getting much better, if at all. He was who he was at that point.

That's because he was 22 in his first season. He played 6 seasons, and was never the same after. his career was cut in half, like I said. He was just as versatile as LeBron, he just didn't have the ball in his hands all the time and wasn't expected to be the primary scorer and primary facilitator like James is in Miami. LeBron is pretty much the one to initiate everything that team runs. Not trying to take anything away from LeBron, he's a great player. The main difference to me is that Lebron is just bigger and more explosive than Hill.

[tmacattack33]

Da fuq?

Grant hill was healthy up until age 28... We had already seen his best or close to it.

Now penny hardaway is a different story and had his first if his major injuries when he was like 24 or something

[Psycho]

Da fuq?

Grant hill was healthy up until age 28... We had already seen his best or close to it.

Now penny hardaway is a different story and had his first if his major injuries when he was like 24 or something

Please refrain from swearing, this is a family friendly site. Thank you :)

[Kiddlovesnets]

Nope, Grant Hill has never been as good as Lebron James even prior to injury, enough said.

[Psycho]

Nope, Grant Hill has never been as good as Lebron James even prior to injury, enough said.

I respect your opinion, but I think you should leave the conversation open so you have the opportunity to learn from others :)

[che guevara]

That's because he was 22 in his first season. He played 6 seasons, and was never the same after. his career was cut in half, like I said. He was just as versatile as LeBron, he just didn't have the ball in his hands all the time and wasn't expected to be the primary scorer and primary facilitator like James is in Miami. LeBron is pretty much the one to initiate everything that team runs. Not trying to take anything away from LeBron, he's a great player. The main difference to me is that Lebron is just bigger and more explosive than Hill.
Hill had the ball in his hands a ton, more than Lebron in Miami, and he was obviously his team's primary scorer and facilitator. Don't know what the hell you're talking about; did you even watch Hill in his prime? He was his team's PG; how the hell do you think he averaged 6.5 assists over his first 5 seasons? Yeah, his career was cut in half, but we saw the best of Hill. How many superstar wing players got better after 28? I can't think of one.

The other big difference between Lebron and Hill, is that Lebron is a much better shooter and scorer.

[Smoke117]

Everyone likes to bring up the fact that Hill scored 26ppg in 2000 but not that his rebounds, assist, and defensive effort fell as he scored more. (like it does for most players) Lebron in general scores more and does all those things better so Grant Hill was never going to be what Lebron is.

[hitmanyr2k]

Why compare? Grant Hill played in a different era. Prime Grant Hill most likely puts up much better numbers playing in Stern's post-2004 bullshit "no-touch" era designed to handcuff defenders and inflate the perimeter player's numbers. Is it any coincidence just about every damn star SG/SF suddenly saw their numbers inflated in 04-05 and beyond?

[Zodiac]

I know you bandwagoners don't really watch any games so I'm just gonna tell you this straight up: Lebron plays PF way more often than Josh this year
And even then Josh is lazy on the boards, he doesn't box out at all

[Greg Oden 50]

nope, maybe on lebron's worse year

LeBron is so lucky can plays in a weak era & dominant :banana:

[Derka]

In what universe does Lebron weight less than 200lbs? Certainly not this one.

Grant Hill could never have done what Lebron does.

[TylerOO]

No way.

[AintNoSunshine]

:facepalm Just because someone's versatile doesn't mean he can be Lebron, Lebron is a physical specimen

[plowking]

6'8", sub-200 lb SF who can play any position required of him.

Grant Hill before the career altering injury averages:
http://imageftw.com/uploads/20130420/Capture.PNG

LeBron James' career stats:
27.6/7.3/6.9/1.7 on .490/.337/.747

What they had in common:
- Neither are (or in younger Hill's case, were) great 3-pt shooters
- Guys who seemingly could score at the basket at will
- Incredible passers
- Arguably the best rebounders (outside of true big men)

You can say LeBron is the better scorer, but we truly don't know how different Hill's stats could've been if he hadn't been injured. In the 1999-2000 season, he averaged 25.8 ppg, so maybe if he had been healthy throughout his late-20's to early 30's, he could've averaged close to 27 per game.

I have a feeling some LeBron fans will find this to be disrespectful, but that's probably because most of them started watching basketball in 2010. Grant Hill was toted as the next best player. If he had remained healthy, he obviously would've given any MVP a run for their money. Hill was probably the best all-around player in the '90s... And yes, that's even looking at Pippen.

So what do you guys think? Agree or disagree?

It seems like you're the one who didn't start watching ball until recently. Hill peaked, he was 28. He turned out into all he could have, and he wasn't close to touching the effectiveness, or level of play Lebron has achieved.

[jbryan1984]

Honestly, Grant Hill at one time was great, probably the face of the league but he was never a LeBron or going to be one. People knew LeBron was going to be huge when he was in high school, Grant Hill wasn't even picked first in his draft. Believe me, I am the last person who wants to give LeBron more compliments but I just don't agree.

[MetsPackers]

LeBron was better than Grant Hill EVER was as a 2nd year player, at 19 years old.

This

Hill is insanely overrated on this forum, probably because half you kids never even saw him in his prime and just want to bash Lebron. Hill was never on Lebron's level after his 3rd year

[Scholar]

In what universe does Lebron weight less than 200lbs? Certainly not this one.

Grant Hill could never have done what Lebron does.

My bad. I sometimes forget that "sub 200" doesn't mean "close to 250."
I know LeBron is ~240 lbs, and though I don't know how much G.Hill weighed in his heyday, I do know he weighs 220 lbs now. :confusedshrug:

Anyway, a lot of you are ignoring two key elements here:
1) Grant Hill began his prime when hand checking was still allowed.
and
2) I said "could've been," not "Definitely was going to be."

We'll never know what Grant Hill could've mustered out if he continued playing at an elite level into his 30's. I mean, sure his rebound and assist numbers dropped in 1999-00, but I think he could've been a 28/7/7 player for a good 4-5 years (meaning, from 2000-01 through 2004-05). That's just what I think, though. Like I already started this paragraph off with: "We'll never know..."

I'm also not trying to argue that young Grant Hill was the exact same player current LBJ is. I'm just saying that if you watched G.Hill back then, he was very similar to LeBron, except LBJ is a more explosive scorer.

With hand checking allowed and the way the league is now definitely on the side of making calls go in favor of superstars, Hill might've managed averaging 10-12 free throw attempts per game. That ultimately equates to a possible additional 2-4 PPG (most likely 2 more since G.Hill wasn't much of a FT shooter), which means his scoring average could've eclipsed 27 ppg. :confusedshrug:

Oh, well. No point in debating about the impossible. It's just a fun debate to have until people start actually arguing.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why compare? Grant Hill played in a different era. Prime Grant Hill most likely puts up much better numbers playing in Stern's post-2004 bullshit "no-touch" era designed to handcuff defenders and inflate the perimeter player's numbers. Is it any coincidence just about every damn star SG/SF suddenly saw their numbers inflated in 04-05 and beyond?
This ...

Not to say Hill is better, but his numbers would've absolutely been better in the post 2006 rule change NBA.

LeBron is a better defender, and especially post 2012, understands how to switch on / off the Magic esque team playmaker role, with when to take over and dominate individually in Jordan esque mode.

Hill was easily the more likable, and mature athlete. He might be quicker off the dribble and first step. And he had a lethal crossover.

Hill is a slightly lesser version of LeBron, much in the way Kobe and Wade are slightly lesser versions of Jordan. Only odd difference is Hill came before LeBron.

Hill obviously had elements of Magic and Pippen in his game. LeBron influences by MJ, Pippen, and Penny (who also is an off spring of Magic)

[arifgokcen]

My bad. I sometimes forget that "sub 200" doesn't mean "close to 250."
I know LeBron is ~240 lbs, and though I don't know how much G.Hill weighed in his heyday, I do know he weighs 220 lbs now. :confusedshrug:

Anyway, a lot of you are ignoring two key elements here:
1) Grant Hill began his prime when hand checking was still allowed.
and
2) I said "could've been," not "Definitely was going to be."

We'll never know what Grant Hill could've mustered out if he continued playing at an elite level into his 30's. I mean, sure his rebound and assist numbers dropped in 1999-00, but I think he could've been a 28/7/7 player for a good 4-5 years (meaning, from 2000-01 through 2004-05). That's just what I think, though. Like I already started this paragraph off with: "We'll never know..."

I'm also not trying to argue that young Grant Hill was the exact same player current LBJ is. I'm just saying that if you watched G.Hill back then, he was very similar to LeBron, except LBJ is a more explosive scorer.

With hand checking allowed and the way the league is now definitely on the side of making calls go in favor of superstars, Hill might've managed averaging 10-12 free throw attempts per game. That ultimately equates to a possible additional 2-4 PPG (most likely 2 more since G.Hill wasn't much of a FT shooter), which means his scoring average could've eclipsed 27 ppg. :confusedshrug:

Oh, well. No point in debating about the impossible. It's just a fun debate to have until people start actually arguing.
Dude you are pushing it too much.

Lebron highest PPG is 31.4.That was not in his prime.That was as 21 year old kid.

Lebron is not 240 he used to weigh that much in high school.He is definitely more than 265(many people verified this.This year during miami training camp he was reported as 266lbs).

The only thing hill used to do better was rebounding the ball and that was because he used to play a lot closer to basket than lebron.You say you watched him i dont think you did.

You say with no hand checking hill could have averaged 27ppg yet you dont even consider is 2003-2004 season was by far the most brutal season i have ever seen.It was a slugfest.Kobe only managed to average 24ppg.T-mac led the league with 28ppg on 417%fg with 24shots per game.

Most may not remember but pistons was routinely holding their opponents to low 70s high 60s.League took action after that season.That season lebron as 18 year old kid averaged 20.9ppg on fg.417%

Hilll in his prime averaged 8.2fta.Lebron averaged 7fta per game in his prime.

Imagine prime hill today,do you really think he would even be considered 2nd best player against durant.I dont think so.Yet lebron is head and shoulders better than any other player including durant.

[TAZORAC]

6'8", sub-200 lb SF who can play any position required of him.

Grant Hill before the career altering injury averages:
http://imageftw.com/uploads/20130420/Capture.PNG

LeBron James' career stats:
27.6/7.3/6.9/1.7 on .490/.337/.747

What they had in common:
- Neither are (or in younger Hill's case, were) great 3-pt shooters
- Guys who seemingly could score at the basket at will
- Incredible passers
- Arguably the best rebounders (outside of true big men)

You can say LeBron is the better scorer, but we truly don't know how different Hill's stats could've been if he hadn't been injured. In the 1999-2000 season, he averaged 25.8 ppg, so maybe if he had been healthy throughout his late-20's to early 30's, he could've averaged close to 27 per game.

I have a feeling some LeBron fans will find this to be disrespectful, but that's probably because most of them started watching basketball in 2010. Grant Hill was toted as the next best player. If he had remained healthy, he obviously would've given any MVP a run for their money. Hill was probably the best all-around player in the '90s... And yes, that's even looking at Pippen.

So what do you guys think? Agree or disagree?

Hey stat geek, Grant Hill in his prime is equal too 18 year old Lebron, outside of that Lebron, Lebron is like a Tiger and Grant Hill is a Bobcat.

[Hoopz2332]

:coleman:

[G-train]

I wonder how many of you teenagers have watched Grant Hill play in his prime?

[Round Mound]

I wonder how many of you teenagers have watched Grant Hill play in his prime?

[B]True. Many Youngsters Think of Hill as a Role Player but Before He Got Hurt The Dude Had Mad Athletic Skills and Great Fundamnetals and High B-BAll I. I Was There To Watch Him and Kidd

[The_Yearning]

Prime Grant Hill would probably been a second year LeBron at best.

[guy]

I dont think Hill at his best isn't even better then Durant. At best, he would be the third best player today.

[G-train]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]True. Many Youngsters Think of Hill as a Role Player but Before He Got Hurt The Dude Had Mad Athletic Skills and Great Fundamnetals and High B-BAll I. I Was There To Watch Him and Kidd

[G-train]

Prime Grant Hill would probably been a second year LeBron at best.

Prime Grant Hill is only a slight notch below prime Lebron, the difference being HGH.

Yeah I said it.

[Hoopz2332]

Prime Grant Hill is only a slight notch below prime Lebron


:oldlol: :biggums:

[G-train]

:oldlol: :biggums:

Cool story 12 year old.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I dont think Hill at his best isn't even better then Durant. At best, he would be the third best player today.
All around he was absolutely better, and his PPG numbers weren't padded by being coddled and promoted by the league and their soft perimeter rules.

He was the better defender, ball handler, passer, playmaker, rebounder, you name it.

You honestly don't think '96 - 2000 Grant Hill with Russell Westbrook wouldn't be as good, or better than they are right now?

Grant Hill dragged some garbage Pistons teams to the playoffs outside of Allan Houston, and an old Joe Dumars. None of those guys being as good as Westbrook from 2010 - current

[che guevara]

Cool story 12 year old.
:oldlol: Dude, you can stop accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you of being a teenager. I saw plenty of Hill in his prime, and he definitely wasn't near Lebron's level. He wasn't even as good as Durant is right now, as Guy said. Is Grant a much better human being than Lebron? Yes. But if we're wondering who's better at playing basketball, it's Lebron by a big margin. We're talking about a guy who never won a playoff series, and averaged 20+ ppg just ONCE in his entire postseason career (and he did that on a paltry 44% from the field).

[plowking]

Prime Grant Hill is only a slight notch below prime Lebron, the difference being HGH.

Yeah I said it.

You've become way off base with your comments since Lebron joined our Heat team it seems.

I remember you arguing Penny was a similar level to Lebron as well... It just isn't close...

[AngelEyes]

:oldlol: Dude, you can stop accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you of being a teenager. I saw plenty of Hill in his prime, and he definitely wasn't near Lebron's level. He wasn't even as good as Durant is right now, as Guy said. Is Grant a much better human being than Lebron? Yes. But if we're wondering who's better at playing basketball, it's Lebron by a big margin. We're talking about a guy who never won a playoff series, and averaged 20+ ppg just ONCE in his entire postseason career (and he did that on a paltry 44% from the field).

When did LeBron become Stalin? Better human being? Don't pretend like you know either of these guys.

[Hoopz2332]

Cool story 12 year old.


U mad?:oldlol:

As far as impact goes and all around play, Grant Hill is like the next step up from Igoudala but with better offense and no defense but still below lebron.

[Rake2204]

I'm a long time Pistons fan and I very much recall Grant Hill's years in Detroit. He was in fact a great player, a superstar. And he led some pretty darn mediocre teams to some pretty outstanding regular season performances, at one point winning 54 games with the top scorers outside of Hill being, in order, Lindsey Hunter, 33 year old Joe Dumars, 34 year old Otis Thorpe, Terry Mills, and Theo Ratliff.

However, I do not think Grant Hill was ever on LeBron James' level. And that's not an insult to Hill. That's more of a compliment of James. I believe LeBron James is, or will go down as, one of the one of the top players in the history of the NBA. And for Hill not to measure up just means I don't think Hill was one of the top 5, 10, 15, or 20 players of all time (depending upon where folks like to rank LeBron).

As others said, Hill was not nearly as physically imposing as James. He could not impart his will upon others as regularly as LeBron does. Also, even in the all around categories in which I felt Hill excelled, I think James does most of them better.

Perhaps most importantly to this thread, watching Hill back then, I felt we were seeing his prime form. That doesn't mean I'm right, but it felt as though he reached his peak pretty early on in his career and was hovering at it for a while (which was great for Pistons fans, because his peak was very high). I mean, we didn't come into each year saying, "Oh my god! He's even better!" Even when the scoring average changed, it still felt like Grant. Though, I guess 2000 felt a little different, with fellow mega scorer Jerry Stackhouse being on the roster that year too. Hill's "team running" seemed to take a small step back that year with such a capable iso scorer joining him on the roster. Instead of Hill running everything all the time, it sometimes felt more like they were taking turns trying to score.

[tobethdope]

"LeBron James IS what Grant Hill COULD'VE been. Agree/Disagree?"

kinda true; hill was visibly more talented but james just has a one in a million body

[che guevara]

I'm a long time Pistons fan and I very much recall Grant Hill's years in Detroit. He was in fact a great player, a superstar. And he led some pretty darn mediocre teams to some pretty outstanding regular season performances, at one point winning 54 games with the top scorers outside of Hill being, in order, Lindsey Hunter, 33 year old Joe Dumars, 34 year old Otis Thorpe, Terry Mills, and Theo Ratliff.

However, I do not think Grant Hill was ever on LeBron James' level. And that's not an insult to Hill. That's more of a compliment of James. I believe LeBron James is, or will go down as, one of the one of the top players in the history of the NBA. And for Hill not to measure up just means I don't think Hill was one of the top 5, 10, 15, or 20 players of all time (depending upon where folks like to rank LeBron).

As others said, Hill was not nearly as physically imposing as James. He could not impart his will upon others as regularly as LeBron does. Also, even in the all around categories in which I felt Hill excelled, I think James does most of them better.

Perhaps most importantly to this thread, watching Hill back then, I felt we were seeing his prime form. That doesn't mean I'm right, but it felt as though he reached his peak pretty early on in his career and was hovering at it for a while (which was great for Pistons fans, because his peak was very high). I mean, we didn't come into each year saying, "Oh my god! He's even better!" Even when the scoring average changed, it still felt like Grant. Though, I guess 2000 felt a little different, with fellow mega scorer Jerry Stackhouse being on the roster that year too. Hill's "team running" seemed to take a small step back that year with such a capable iso scorer joining him on the roster. Instead of Hill running everything all the time, it sometimes felt more like they were taking turns trying to score.
Question, did you like Stackhouse? I hated him, he was a turnover machine who took lots of bad shots and liked to kill the flow of the offense. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Pistons regressed when they added him to the roster.

[Rake2204]

Question, did you like Stackhouse? I hated him, he was a turnover machine who took lots of bad shots and liked to kill the flow of the offense. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Pistons regressed when they added him to the roster.I liked the idea of acquiring him from Philly. At the time, he was a big name dating back to UNC and I thought he was a primetime scorer. But you are correct, he was definitely was one of those standard NBA iso scorers. Catch, look, dribble, look, wait, try to score.

On the flip side, it was well referenced, but I also don't think it was a coincidence that the Pistons took their big leap in '02 only once Stackhouse began cutting back a little bit and spreading the ball out a little more. Obviously, key acquisitions (Cliff Robinson, Jon Barry, Corliss Williamson) and emerging stars (Ben Wallace) also played a role, but I don't think the Pistons do what they did that year (division title, 2nd round playoffs) without Stackhouse attempting to buy in like he did.

In the Pistons' worst years, Stack was freezing and gunning. By the time '02 ended, I thought Joe Dumars had made a bad move by trading him for Richard Hamilton. Of course, like many times in Pistons transaction history, I was so terribly wrong on that one. Still, it was nice to see Stackhouse appear to kind of grow a little bit in his time here.

[KungFuJoe]

I hate Lebron...and I watched Hill play.

Whoever said poor man's Lebron is right.

[Bigsmoke]

disagree

[305Baller]

Grant Hill = Pippen

[Cali Syndicate]

Hill in his mid to late 30's was still taking defenders off the dribble and sending facials down at the rim like he was in his mid 20's.

Top shelf slasher. A consistent stop and pop jumper. Good post game and defender. Excellent play making and passing ability. The similarities in style of play is obvious. But as much as I dislike Lebron, Hill was never as good as Lebron. That's like saying Hill was arguably better than MJ from 96-98 cause IMO Current Lebron is playing at that same level, even better I suppose.

However, in today's era, prime Hill would have been a top 5 player a good number of times. Nevr the best though IMO.

[stevieming]

Prime Hill had a prettier game than Lebron, his crossover and spin moves were awesome. I felt Hill had a higher skill level, apart from shooting.

Lebron just has an incredible build, too big, too strong, too fast...

Bottom line though, Lebron is better.

Hill isn't as dominant and even if he didn't get injured, the amount he could have improved would amount to Lebron's best years.

One thing I never got, why the hell did he not change his shooting form when he was injured, for a 6"8 guy with the amount of coordination he has, he should be a much better 3 point shooter.