where do the jazz find all these white people

[knicks15]

do they search for white people or something i mean their 4 best players arent black. im not sure what deron williams is but he doesnt look totally black, boozer might be but he's alaskan, kirilenko, okur. Add in matt harpring.

[Jerz Netz]

thats what the mormons like to see.

[Xsatyr]

They are just marketing to the people who live in that area.

[reppy]

How many white people do they draft? If I recall, they draft as many blacks as any other team. This nonsense has gone on too far.

Last time I checked, Mormons don't drink beer, either. Yet they still sell beer at the arena. Don't they know they should be marketing to racist white Mormons? :confusedshrug:

[knicks15]

They are just marketing to the people who live in that area.

thats interesting. wonder if thats why they took williams over paul

[SomeBunghole]

thats interesting. wonder if thats why they took williams over paul

No, they took Williams over Paul so whiny *****es like you could cry when the mostly white Jazz beat the gangstas the Knicks have assembled.

[Skywalker]

boozer might be but hes alaskan

:roll:

[SomeBunghole]

how many hoods do u have in your closet?

Funny you assume that I would be white.

[Timmeh]

do they search for white people or something i mean their 4 best players arent black. im not sure what deron williams is but he doesnt look totally black, boozer might be but hes alaskan, kirilenko, okur. add in matt hapring and you have half a klan rally. then u go back a few years and theres stockton n hornacek. At first I thought you were just being stupid, but then I realized you're a Knick fan so I now know you're just retarded. There's no rule in the NBA that states that only 100% black players are the only ones on a team that are allowed to be good. Just because some is white, alaskan, biracial, whatever, doesn't mean they can't be good at basketball. You're stupid.

[knickscity]

Reprted, Reported, Reported

[DoubleTech]

the thread starter raises a good point.

where DOES one find white people? the jazz seem to have found a bunch, i wonder where they looked? maybe they have some kinda white guy radar. it's a mystery for the ages...

[knickscity]

At first I thought you were just being stupid, but then I realized you're a Knick fan so I now know you're just retarded. There's no rule in the NBA that states that only 100% black players are the only ones on a team that are allowed to be good. Just because some is white, alaskan, biracial, whatever, doesn't mean they can't be good at basketball. You're stupid.

OT The 'cats have have a mod?

[knicks15]

At first I thought you were just being stupid, but then I realized you're a Knick fan so I now know you're just retarded. There's no rule in the NBA that states that only 100% black players are the only ones on a team that are allowed to be good. Just because some is white, alaskan, biracial, whatever, doesn't mean they can't be good at basketball. You're stupid.


youre either blind or an idiot or just in denial if you dont notice anything with the jazz. im not saying its wrong its just noteworthy. if the nhl fielded a team with 3-4 black starters i think people might take notice

[SomeBunghole]

youre either blind or an idiot or just in denial if you dont notice anything with the jazz. im not saying its wrong its just noteworthy.

Why is it noteworthy? Why not post a thread about the Raptors and the fact that they often have 3-4 white players on the floor. Plus Parker, who in your view qualifies as some sort of a half-breed.

[Jailblazers7]

Did they not just draft Dee Brown, Ronnie Brewer, and Paul Millsap in this year draft.

[Hoonyo]

They found Okur rotting on the Detroit bench.

[boozehound]

do they search for white people or something i mean their 4 best players arent black. im not sure what deron williams is but he doesnt look totally black, boozer might be but hes alaskan, kirilenko, okur. add in matt hapring and you have half a klan rally. then u go back a few years and theres stockton n hornacek.
Im sure Boozer or Williams would take great offense to you denying their American African heritage. Racial classifications have only superficial associations with skin color (tayshaun prince is black).

[boozehound]

They found Okur rotting on the Detroit bench.
yes rotting, started over 30 games, played about 24 mins a night.

[Chalkmaze]

First off, Utah as a whole is pretty non-racist, at least in a negative way, so your unfounded speculation is just that, unfounded. The Jazz tend to pick-up players who fit the local culture somewhat so you tend to get less urban and ghetto culture, and that might be what you tend to notice most. I mean, obviously New York and New Jersey tends to choose a lot of inner-city products more so than the most of the league, since that fits the New York culture a little better. Ultimately, the Jazz just want the best guy for the job, a guy that has a good chance to fit in, and can play good basketball.

[bigboi_baller]

the thread starter raises a good point.

where DOES one find white people? the jazz seem to have found a bunch, i wonder where they looked? maybe they have some kinda white guy radar. it's a mystery for the ages...
:roll:

Maybe they make them in Mormon factories.

[shaqman]

the thread starter raises a good point.

where DOES one find white people? the jazz seem to have found a bunch, i wonder where they looked? maybe they have some kinda white guy radar. it's a mystery for the ages...
:roll:

[Mewwem22]

do they search for white people or something i mean their 4 best players arent black. im not sure what deron williams is but he doesnt look totally black, boozer might be but hes alaskan, kirilenko, okur. add in matt hapring and you have half a klan rally. then u go back a few years and theres stockton n hornacek.

Sore looser i see from last night...

What does race have to do with anything? I mean come on! How old do you have to be to know that good players=good team. This is the year 2007, grow up!

[Chalkmaze]

My cousin started a Popeye's chicken business in Utah and it went bankrupt after 2 months, not a lot of brothas in utah.:roll:

Or could it be because he was competing with Kentucky Fried Chicken, which was started in Utah?

[Targus]

what's even more funny is that their called the "Jazz"...white ppl...jazz...doesn't mix.

[Darkess]

Anybody notice that the Knicks have just one white guy? (David Lee)

Uh-oh. Looks like we have a conspiracy on our hands.

[statman32]

First off, Utah as a whole is pretty non-racist, at least in a negative way, so your unfounded speculation is just that, unfounded. The Jazz tend to pick-up players who fit the local culture somewhat so you tend to get less urban and ghetto culture, and that might be what you tend to notice most. I mean, obviously New York and New Jersey tends to choose a lot of inner-city products more so than the most of the league, since that fits the New York culture a little better. Ultimately, the Jazz just want the best guy for the job, a guy that has a good chance to fit in, and can play good basketball.


Utah is full of mormans...Mormans just recently(last 20 years) started letting black people become members...Alot of places are also closed on sundays and there are alot of stupid liquor laws...Utah is mainly a white community with racists(even thoughthey might not say they arent)

[Xsatyr]

Anybody notice that the Knicks have just one white guy? (David Lee)

Uh-oh. Looks like we have a conspiracy on our hands.

Considering that the NBA is dominated by blacks, it is a fair question to ask about the Jazz. They didn't get these players by accident, believe what you want. Either way I don't care what you do as long as you have a good team.

[wang4three]

Where does New York find so many bad players/GMs and give them huge contracts?

[SomeBunghole]

Utah is full of mormans...Mormans just recently(last 20 years) started letting black people become members...Alot of places are also closed on sundays and there are alot of stupid liquor laws...Utah is mainly a white community with racists(even thoughthey might not say they arent)

Utah is 62% Mormon. SCL is less than 50% Mormon. Wealthy neighbourhoods and suburbs such as Park City, where most of the Jazz players live, are even less Mormon.

Furthermore, there's more non-whites in Utah, percentage wise, than in many of the New England states. I also don't know what liquor laws have to do with racism, or why an NBA player absolutely must be able to get liquored up on a Sunday.

As far as Mormons not letting blacks become members, I have absolutely no idea why this would bother an average black person. Are there that many blacks in the US that desperately want to be Mormons?

[Darkess]

Utah is full of mormans...Mormans just recently(last 20 years) started letting black people become members...Alot of places are also closed on sundays and there are alot of stupid liquor laws...Utah is mainly a white community with racists(even thoughthey might not say they arent)

Mormons USED to be very racist. They wouldn't let black people have the priesthood (mormon terminology), had no temples in africa, and because of all that Utah was the last state to adopt MLK Day.

However, that being said, there's been a very swift change, and Utah's not like that anymore. Actually, Utah's growing quite a bit with minorities, which is in sharp contrast to the past.

*BTW, no I'm not mormon...

[Jerz Netz]

Or could it be because he was competing with Kentucky Fried Chicken, which was started in Utah?
thats weird. i thought it started in Kentucky. sounds better than Utah Fried Chicken

[Chalkmaze]

Utah is full of mormans...Mormans just recently(last 20 years) started letting black people become members...Alot of places are also closed on sundays and there are alot of stupid liquor laws...Utah is mainly a white community with racists(even thoughthey might not say they arent)

I've lived here my whole life... Three of my best friends have dark skin color. I don't care for the mormons, I don't really like the culture and am looking to move out. Yes the mormons had some old doctrine about dark skinned people which has been revised. However... you'll actually find that there is much more of what they call "positive racism" in Salt Lake City, than anything else. People see someone with dark skin color and it actually makes them want to get to know them, what they are about, help them out, be extra friendly or whatever. You are just guessing and coming to your own conclusions, but it's not the way things really are here. I'd also note, that even back in the day when racism was really bad everywhere in America, Utah was not a state that treated those with dark skin badly comparatively speaking.

[loot]

do they search for white people or something i mean their 4 best players arent black. im not sure what deron williams is but he doesnt look totally black, boozer might be but he's alaskan, kirilenko, okur. Add in matt harpring.


in my nbawatching career ive only seen a couple of player who would qualify as black. tyrone hill, michael finley, keon clark, manute bol and luol deng. and then some.

also i bet that when your dear ol mother would get mugged by a person any other than a caucasian, you'd tell the police he's black, so i dont really care about these kind of questions.

[geeWiz15]

MORMONS DON'T WATCH BASKETBALL.

okay??! if Utah were 100% mormons there would not be an NBA franchise there. buy brains.

[statman32]

I don't care for the mormons, I don't really like the culture and am looking to move out.

hmm maybe black nba free agents feel the same way as you :confusedshrug:

[Chalkmaze]

hmm maybe black nba free agents feel the same way as you :confusedshrug:

Maybe a lot of people from elsewhere feel that way... But, um... I'd definitely love to play for the Jazz, and absolutely would stick around and not think twice if I made the kind of money they did.

[knicks15]

lol what a bunch of politically correct robots you are. u guys must live in a world where ponys roam the streets and everyone is the same color. its like youre trying to not notice the obvious. theres nothing wrong with the jazz getting a lot of whites which just happens to coincide with their population. but i dont know if u can say its just a coincidence. my guess is 5 or 10 years down the road the jazz will still have more whites than normal teams. and this clown loot. if you count a guy who was born in germany and raised in alaska, who just happens to be light skinned, as a run in the mill black guy then maybe u need to open your eyes a little. and deron williams is white and black i believe, also not fully black.

[SomeBunghole]

Maybe a lot of people from elsewhere feel that way... But, um... I'd definitely love to play for the Jazz, and absolutely would stick around and not think twice if I made the kind of money they did.

Nevermind all the other things that make the experience of a black NBA player living in Utah very different from the experience of a black electrician living in Utah.

As an NBA player, you're automatically treated differently. Sure, you'll hear stories of people facing racism in Utah, but NBA players? Has anyone heard a single former Jazz player complain about having racial slurs hurled at him on the street? I mean, Karl Malone has a god-like status in Utah.

As an NBA player, you work for the league, which is a nation-wide organization. You don't face any more workplace discrimination in SLC than you would in Atlanta.

As an NBA player, you spend half of your season on the road. Meaning you don't live in SLC 365 days a year. Nor is anyone forcing you to live there during off-season.

As an NBA player, you make the kind of cash most people can only dream of. Hence, regardless of which city you live in, you probably own a house in an upper-class, affluent neighbourhood which is most likely predominantly white. It's not as if Lamar Odom has a house in Compton. His neighbourhood is as white as any in SLC.

[sizzlehot]

I saw Rodney King once in Utah, he was trying to aggravate the police so they would beat him up and Rodney can sue, but the Police decided its better to invite him to a party, I was gonna go too but I have a lot of wives to attend too, what's a KKK party? coz that where Rodney is invited.

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

I saw Rodney King once in Utah, he was trying to aggravate the police so they would beat him up and Rodney can sue, but the Police decided its better to invite him to a party, I was gonna go too but I have a lot of wives to attend too, what's a KKK party? coz that where Rodney is invited.
Sizzle...hot?

Name Stealer! :oldlol:

[statman32]

MORMONS DON'T WATCH BASKETBALL.

okay??! if Utah were 100% mormons there would not be an NBA franchise there. buy brains.

:confusedshrug: :hammerhead: :wtf:

[sizzlehot]

Sizzle...hot?

Name Stealer! :oldlol:

so there's another sizzlehot ont his board?

[ElPigto]

Utah is 62% Mormon. SCL is less than 50% Mormon. Wealthy neighbourhoods and suburbs such as Park City, where most of the Jazz players live, are even less Mormon.

Furthermore, there's more non-whites in Utah, percentage wise, than in many of the New England states. I also don't know what liquor laws have to do with racism, or why an NBA player absolutely must be able to get liquored up on a Sunday.

As far as Mormons not letting blacks become members, I have absolutely no idea why this would bother an average black person. Are there that many blacks in the US that desperately want to be Mormons?

Checkmate.

[BBallBeatwriter]

[QUOTE=Targus

[Mewwem22]

lol what a bunch of politically correct robots you are. u guys must live in a world where ponys roam the streets and everyone is the same color. its like youre trying to not notice the obvious. theres nothing wrong with the jazz getting a lot of whites which just happens to coincide with their population. but i dont know if u can say its just a coincidence. my guess is 5 or 10 years down the road the jazz will still have more whites than normal teams. and this clown loot. if you count a guy who was born in germany and raised in alaska, who just happens to be light skinned, as a run in the mill black guy then maybe u need to open your eyes a little. and deron williams is white and black i believe, also not fully black.

Did you know that in the days of slavery even if you were 1/8 black you were considered black and could be a slave? It doesn't matter if deron and boozer are half black and white, they are considered black a lot more than they are considered white.

[BBallBeatwriter]

iN HIS NEW BOOK, FORMER JAZZ C JOHN AMAECHI CALLS JAZZ OWNER LARRY MILLER A BIGGOT AND HAS SOME QUOTES TO BACK IT UP.

[ALBballer]

Did you know that in the days of slavery even if you were 1/8 black you were considered black and could be a slave? It doesn't matter if deron and boozer are half black and white, they are considered black a lot more than they are considered white.

Hyperdescent Rule, in some states, stated that if you were 1/32 of a minority (usually black) then you are considered a minority.

[allball]

You know they used to say the same about the Celtics

[knicks15]

Did you know that in the days of slavery even if you were 1/8 black you were considered black and could be a slave? It doesn't matter if deron and boozer are half black and white, they are considered black a lot more than they are considered white.

are we in the days of slavery? who cares what youre considered according to the U.S. census. were talking about the general fans perception, as thats all that would matter to the jazz. if we found out that kirilenko is 1/8 black do u think the fans would look at him as a black player?

[Lakerz_Forever]

Mormons. :no:

[jody]

LOL. so one single team in the entire NBA is not majority black, and that's a problem.

it must be this new diversity they also want in the NFL, where all players, coaches, and refs are black.

[SomeBunghole]

LOL. so one single team in the entire NBA is not majority black, and that's a problem.

it must be this new diversity they also want in the NFL, where all players, coaches, and refs are black.

The funny thing is that the Jazz ARE majority black. 8 out of their 13 players are black.

[Chalkmaze]

iN HIS NEW BOOK, FORMER JAZZ C JOHN AMAECHI CALLS JAZZ OWNER LARRY MILLER A BIGGOT AND HAS SOME QUOTES TO BACK IT UP.

I'd like to read the quote's. Is he talking about homosexuality or racism?

[reppy]

Mormons, in my experience, love basketball. And I know this because I was raised Mormon. Almost every Mormon church you'll goto has some sort of basketball league. In fact, the LDS church even made a movie called "Church Ball" or something. It doesn't really advertise the fact that they're Mormon, though. You wouldn't know. It has Gary Coleman and a few other people in it.

Mormons get way too much crap for "racism". I personally have never met a Mormon that had anything bad to say about another race.

[New Jazzy Nets]

Not reading all the posts so i apologize if this has bene said.

The Jazz have one white guy that is actually American.

Matt Harpring

the rest our foreign

and if i remember right someone made a comment about the older mavs team when they had nash, christie, dirk.

[Xsatyr]

Not reading all the posts so i apologize if this has bene said.

The Jazz have one white guy that is actually American.

Matt Harpring

the rest our foreign

and if i remember right someone made a comment about the older mavs team when they had nash, christie, dirk.

The point they were trying to make was that they try to get players that appeal to the city. Obviously their team would suck if they just went for white Americans. Nor can they always draft white players bc then that would be obvious. But to sit here and say that they do not look for white players would be a lie. I am not saying they are racist or anything but they tend to have a preference.

[New Jazzy Nets]

The point they were trying to make was that they try to get players that appeal to the city. Obviously their team would suck if they just went for white Americans. Nor can they always draft white players bc then that would be obvious. But to sit here and say that they do not look for white players would be a lie. I am not saying they are racist or anything but they tend to have a preference.

okay i understand. this makes this a absolute horrible thread then. the jazz dont give a damn what race the player is. makes no sense. foreign guys appeal to utah's city how? The jazz go for the best player. how many non white players does a team need to have?

Williams
Fisher
Brown
Miles
Brewer
Boozer
Millsap
Collins

this topic is retarded. and the whole mormon thing. you people dont know anything about mormons except for that stupid south park episode you saw once. so please dont stereo type my state and the people who live here.

[Kblaze8855]

I cant make claims about the people who run the Jazz as people but I simply refuse to believe that the historically whitest franchise in the NBA just happens to be in the whitest state(that doesnt border canada) and is mostly filled with people of a faith that has been openly racist against black people.

Im not just making claims off something I read either. Ive known and currently know mormons. I used to do some charity work with a group that helped distribute Deseret foods to the poor. Deseret is the name the mormons use for their line of foods. I can even prove it. I actually have left over stuff of theirs in the kitchen. Cake mixes and ****. could scan a bag if I had to(I dont thin I need to though)

Ive sat and talked with them quite a bit. The mormon church was openly flat out racist until very recently. The Jazz existed in Utah before the mormons even officially changes their stance on black people. the reasons black people couldnt be a priest in their church(and still cant in some places) is because they believe dark people to be the result of a curse from god.

Ive heard it from the mouth of a mormon minister(I dont remember the word for them...I dont think he was a priest). They work to change it and those ive met were genuine nice people looking ot help the poor. So im not saying all mormons are racist. But the faith itself has been very racist and the mormon leaders have often been very racist. Some high ranking mormon back in the 70s claimed the civil rights movement was just a comminust plot.

Combo of an openly racist faith who until very very recently didnt even have adults who grew up learning the revised less racist version and a very white population mostly made up of that faith just makes me feel its no suprise they often have the whitest teams.

People speak on where FAs want to go and it probably is a factor. But really....there is too much coincidence for me to ignore the racial issue.

The majority of adults in Utah are white people who grew up being taught the ways of the world by a flat out racist church. maybe the 18-20 yearolds came along after major changes but the people with true influence are the 30+ yearold who grew up learning from people like the mormon who wrote this:



The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to the restriction placed upon them. "No person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood" (Brigham Young). It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a "Nation of Priesthood holders"....

The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent, and then, of course, they have been persuaded by some of the arguments that have been put forth....We who teach in the Church certainly must have our feet on the ground and not to be led astray by the philosophies of men on this subject....

I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, "First we pity, then endure, then embrace"....


I dont care what anyone says.....a mormon state run by people who grew up learning racism as a basic part of life having really white teams simply is not coincidence. Doesnt make the Gm and all that racist but the most influential portion of the fanbase was taught racism as a basic way of life. I wouldnt build a team like the Knicks for that fanbase either.

[SomeBunghole]

The point they were trying to make was that they try to get players that appeal to the city. Obviously their team would suck if they just went for white Americans. Nor can they always draft white players bc then that would be obvious. But to sit here and say that they do not look for white players would be a lie. I am not saying they are racist or anything but they tend to have a preference.

You state that the Jazz have a preference with such conviction, yet offer no proof whatsoever. Instead, you offer copouts like "they don't draft white players because it would be too obvious" and "they can't make a team out of only white americans because it would suck."

If the Jazz were so desperate for white players, why didn't they try to trade up for Milwaukee's pick two years ago? They take Bogut, who's not only white but a local product as well, and give their pick to the Bucks, plus some other future picks and someone like Snyder. Then they could turn around and send Boozer for Hinrich and solve their PG problem. Bam, all-white starting 5 of Bogut, Okur, AK47, Giricek, and Hinrich. Plus Harpring off the bench. And they'd be fairly competitive.

Either way, if all these conspiracy theories were true, the Jazz would have more white players than any other team in the league. And that, believe it or not is not the case. Bobcats have the same amount, and the Magic have one more. There may be other teams I can't think of right now. How do you explain that?

[yobore]

okay i understand. this makes this a absolute horrible thread then. the jazz dont give a damn what race the player is. makes no sense. foreign guys appeal to utah's city how? The jazz go for the best player. how many non white players does a team need to have?

Williams
Fisher
Brown
Miles
Brewer
Boozer
Millsap
Collins

this topic is retarded. and the whole mormon thing. you people dont know anything about mormons except for that stupid south park episode you saw once. so please dont stereo type my state and the people who live here.

lol just saw this thread I'm not saying they're racist or anything but it is very funny whenever I go lurk at jazzfanz.com they always have their radar out for white players, which seems to work well for them considering maybe sometimes white players get undervalued.

I remember last year all year there were a disproportionate number of threads about whether or not they should get Redick or Morrison or how they could get him then this year there was a stretch where they all wanted to get David Lee or Pavlocic. It's hard to deny that some Jazz fans are at least a little bit more into white players.

[Xsatyr]

okay i understand. this makes this a absolute horrible thread then. the jazz dont give a damn what race the player is. makes no sense. foreign guys appeal to utah's city how? The jazz go for the best player. how many non white players does a team need to have?

Williams
Fisher
Brown
Miles
Brewer
Boozer
Millsap
Collins

this topic is retarded. and the whole mormon thing. you people dont know anything about mormons except for that stupid south park episode you saw once. so please dont stereo type my state and the people who live here.

I already said they can't just go for white Americans bc then the team will suck. The foreign players they do have are white so it is an easier transition. And obviously they are going to have black players otherwise they would be stupid. My point is that they try to bring white players to the team more than anyone else. I am not saying they want an all white team, I am saying they put more of an effort to getting white players or black players who look white. It is obvious.

[Xsatyr]

You state that the Jazz have a preference with such conviction, yet offer no proof whatsoever. Instead, you offer copouts like "they don't draft white players because it would be too obvious" and "they can't make a team out of only white americans because it would suck."
If the Jazz were so desperate for white players, why didn't they try to trade up for Milwaukee's pick two years ago? They take Bogut, who's not only white but a local product as well, and give their pick to the Bucks, plus some other future picks and someone like Snyder. Then they could turn around and send Boozer for Hinrich and solve their PG problem. Bam, all-white starting 5 of Bogut, Okur, AK47, Giricek, and Hinrich. Plus Harpring off the bench. And they'd be fairly competitive.

Either way, if all these conspiracy theories were true, the Jazz would have more white players than any other team in the league. And that, believe it or not is not the case. Bobcats have the same amount, and the Magic have one more. There may be other teams I can't think of right now. How do you explain that?

Yeah bc creating a team that can't win will sale tickets.

[Xsatyr]

lol just saw this thread I'm not saying they're racist or anything but it is very funny whenever I go lurk at jazzfanz.com they always have their radar out for white players, which seems to work well for them considering maybe sometimes white players get undervalued.

I remember last year all year there were a disproportionate number of threads about whether or not they should get Redick or Morrison or how they could get him then this year there was a stretch where they all wanted to get David Lee or Pavlocic. It's hard to deny that some Jazz fans are at least a little bit more into white players.

We should give it up bc they lack common sense. They think that we are trying to say that they are completely racist and want all white players. When all I am trying to say is that they just would like to have some white players who are productive.

[knicks15]

You state that the Jazz have a preference with such conviction, yet offer no proof whatsoever. Instead, you offer copouts like "they don't draft white players because it would be too obvious" and "they can't make a team out of only white americans because it would suck."

If the Jazz were so desperate for white players, why didn't they try to trade up for Milwaukee's pick two years ago? They take Bogut, who's not only white but a local product as well, and give their pick to the Bucks, plus some other future picks and someone like Snyder. Then they could turn around and send Boozer for Hinrich and solve their PG problem. Bam, all-white starting 5 of Bogut, Okur, AK47, Giricek, and Hinrich. Plus Harpring off the bench. And they'd be fairly competitive.

Either way, if all these conspiracy theories were true, the Jazz would have more white players than any other team in the league. And that, believe it or not is not the case. Bobcats have the same amount, and the Magic have one more. There may be other teams I can't think of right now. How do you explain that?


they are not in the business to create an all white team. they are in the business of winning basketball games and making money. all thats being said is they have had a lot of significant non black players and have been known for having a lot of white guys, and probably not by accident

[Kblaze8855]

I found my book of mormon. I forgot they gave it to me.

[New Jazzy Nets]

I cant make claims about the people who run the Jazz as people but I simply refuse to believe that the historically whitest franchise in the NBA just happens to be in the whitest state(that doesnt border canada) and is mostly filled with people of a faith that has been openly racist against black people.

Im not just making claims off something I read either. Ive known and currently know mormons. I used to do some charity work with a group that helped distribute Deseret foods to the poor. Deseret is the name the mormons use for their line of foods. I can even prove it. I actually have left over stuff of theirs in the kitchen. Cake mixes and ****. could scan a bag if I had to(I dont thin I need to though)

Ive sat and talked with them quite a bit. The mormon church was openly flat out racist until very recently. The Jazz existed in Utah before the mormons even officially changes their stance on black people. the reasons black people couldnt be a priest in their church(and still cant in some places) is because they believe dark people to be the result of a curse from god.

Ive heard it from the mouth of a mormon minister(I dont remember the word for them...I dont think he was a priest). They work to change it and those ive met were genuine nice people looking ot help the poor. So im not saying all mormons are racist. But the faith itself has been very racist and the mormon leaders have often been very racist. Some high ranking mormon back in the 70s claimed the civil rights movement was just a comminust plot.

Combo of an openly racist faith who until very very recently didnt even have adults who grew up learning the revised less racist version and a very white population mostly made up of that faith just makes me feel its no suprise they often have the whitest teams.

People speak on where FAs want to go and it probably is a factor. But really....there is too much coincidence for me to ignore the racial issue.

The majority of adults in Utah are white people who grew up being taught the ways of the world by a flat out racist church. maybe the 18-20 yearolds came along after major changes but the people with true influence are the 30+ yearold who grew up learning from people like the mormon who wrote this:





I dont care what anyone says.....a mormon state run by people who grew up learning racism as a basic part of life having really white teams simply is not coincidence. Doesnt make the Gm and all that racist but the most influential portion of the fanbase was taught racism as a basic way of life. I wouldnt build a team like the Knicks for that fanbase either.

Dude, you make mormons seem like the KKK it's not like that at all.

[reppy]

I found my book of mormon. I forgot they gave it to me.

:roll:

I still have my Book of Mormon + Bible. I'd feel weird if I did anything to it.

[SomeBunghole]

Alright, lets just settle this bullsh*t right now before the thread goes to sh*t. All kinds of claims are being thrown around, so lets see which ones are true.

If anyone still wants to claim the Jazz are the whitest team in the league, now or ever, produce some numbers. Until then, stop spouting bullsh*t.

[Xsatyr]

Dude, you make mormons seem like the KKK it's not like that at all.

Yeah I am not saying they are racist, I am just saying that they would like to have some productive white players on the team. I also think it is funny how some of the black players look white. I personally think it is the GM who is just trying to appeal to a group of people who came from a religious background that was racist. I am not saying they are racist now but some could and probably still are. But many people today are racist and they are not Mormon.

[Kblaze8855]

Dude, you make mormons seem like the KKK it's not like that at all.

I know they arent. In all honesty those I know are among the nicest people ive ever met. almost nice ot the point its creepy. Not in the Southpark episode way. but they seem to be real good people who care about the world and maybe im just not used to meeting those types.

But fact remains they grew up learning that black people were the result of a curse from god and that white people are superior to blacks and native americans(as we know them). They made no secret of it. The church was super racist and even now with the changes most of those in power within the church they say still have those feelings. The change was more because they knew how bad it would make the church looks once America tried to change its ways.

The same guy who said all that stuff I posted was in the church when they made the change. And those arent feelings that change with some panel making a decision for the sake of being PC.

The mormon faith...the more racist old version of it...is the version learned by the people in Utah who really run things. Thats not my opinion. Its a simple fact. does that make all of them racist? No. Of course not.

Does it make me think its not by chance a state populated mostly by these people has by the numbers the whitest teams over their history? Yes. They have had 2 black all stars I know of in their history. One of them was a cowboy truck driver who listened to country music. The other was a scoring champ who they traded for white players Kent Benson and Kelly Tripuka.

Now they have Deron Williams and Boozer who are as unblack as anyone can be and still be called black. Im not gonna say they drafted Deron over Paul because he was closer to white. Or that they signed Boozer because hes....whatever he is.

Im just saying its part of a long list of things that if they are all coincidence....id be suprised. These things happening in like....Atlanta. Or Golden state. Id say "thats odd". But in a white state where the most powerful people were raised in an openly racist faith? Thats a bit past odd.

[Kblaze8855]

Alright, lets just settle this bullsh*t right now before the thread goes to sh*t. All kinds of claims are being thrown around, so lets see which ones are true.

If anyone still wants to claim the Jazz are the whitest team in the league, now or ever, produce some numbers. Until then, stop spouting bullsh*t.

The belief partly comes from an old article on NBA economics and if race changes how well fans respond to a team. Was posted on the old board years ago. guy had a breakdown of the history of every team and the whitest team historically was Utah and I think Boston was second.

Im not about to search through 60 years of history to find out if its accurate. And I imagine he did have a year cutoff somewhere because if he counted the 40s there were all white teams. I think he only did the last 25 years. But this was maybe 2003 or 2004 so it covered Utahs entire history.


If the guy was wrong then he was just wrong. But he had the numbers. Was a good sized discussion on it back then. More work than I(or anyone probably) am willing to do.



Well here is something. Just on one year though. Jazz were the whitest team in years at the time. 9 of 14 players were white. I cant think of a whiter team in a long time. If there was one I missed it. Kings and Mavs were kinda white at one point but I dont think they were that white at any time.

http://www.castefootball.us/viewarticle.asp?sportID=4&teamID=0&ID=22853


Utah Jazz – The Jazz created history of a sort last season by having four white starters and nine white players on their 14 man roster. This season isn’t quite as good – three white starters and seven whites overall on their 17 man roster going into the season.

[knicks15]

Alright, lets just settle this bullsh*t right now before the thread goes to sh*t. All kinds of claims are being thrown around, so lets see which ones are true.

If anyone still wants to claim the Jazz are the whitest team in the league, now or ever, produce some numbers. Until then, stop spouting bullsh*t.


okur
kirilenko
williams
boozer
giricek
harpring
araujo
amundson

ive included deron williams and boozer on that list and youre gonna argue it but deron williams is white and black, and boozer was born in germany/raised in alaska. both of them look rather white. nevertheless thats 8 players, including the best 4 or 5 players on the team. and the 3 players you think of when u think of the 90s, malone, stockton, hornacek.

[reppy]

okur
kirilenko
williams
boozer
giricek
harpring
araujo
amundson

ive included deron williams and boozer on that list and youre gonna argue it but deron williams is white and black, and boozer was born in germany/raised in alaska. both of them look rather white. nevertheless thats 8 players, including the best 4 or 5 players on the team. and the 3 players you think of when u think of the 90s, malone, stockton, hornacek.

What's their draft picture look like? And it's true that Jazz wants the "whiter" black players.. whatever that means. Utah isn't going to want a team filled with Darius Miles, Stephen Jackson, Zach Randolph, Ron Artest, etc. Hell, nobody should.

[SomeBunghole]

ive included deron williams and boozer on that list and youre gonna argue it but deron williams is white and black, and boozer was born in germany/raised in alaska. both of them look rather white. nevertheless thats 8 players, including the best 4 or 5 players on the team.

So you now get to decide who's white and who isn't? Is Livingston white? Is Diaw white? Rick Fox? Grant Hill? Or lets go outside of basketball. Halle Berry? Obama? Is everyone whose ancestry is both black and white automatically white according to you? Or does this only apply when you're whining about your team's loss the night before?


and the 3 players you think of when u think of the 90s, malone, stockton, hornacek.

Malone's white?

[New Jazzy Nets]

if you include boozer and williams then you have to exclude all the foreign players.

because you say boozer is white because he grew up in alaska? then all the foreign players arent white because they grew up outside the US.

[Mewwem22]

I know they arent. In all honesty those I know are among the nicest people ive ever met. almost nice ot the point its creepy. Not in the Southpark episode way. but they seem to be real good people who care about the world and maybe im just not used to meeting those types.

But fact remains they grew up learning that black people were the result of a curse from god and that white people are superior to blacks and native americans(as we know them). They made no secret of it. The church was super racist and even now with the changes most of those in power within the church they say still have those feelings. The change was more because they knew how bad it would make the church looks once America tried to change its ways.

The same guy who said all that stuff I posted was in the church when they made the change. And those arent feelings that change with some panel making a decision for the sake of being PC.

The mormon faith...the more racist old version of it...is the version learned by the people in Utah who really run things. Thats not my opinion. Its a simple fact. does that make all of them racist? No. Of course not.

Does it make me think its not by chance a state populated mostly by these people has by the numbers the whitest teams over their history? Yes. They have had 2 black all stars I know of in their history. One of them was a cowboy truck driver who listened to country music. The other was a scoring champ who they traded for white players Kent Benson and Kelly Tripuka.

Now they have Deron Williams and Boozer who are as unblack as anyone can be and still be called black. Im not gonna say they drafted Deron over Paul because he was closer to white. Or that they signed Boozer because hes....whatever he is.

Im just saying its part of a long list of things that if they are all coincidence....id be suprised. These things happening in like....Atlanta. Or Golden state. Id say "thats odd". But in a white state where the most powerful people were raised in an openly racist faith? Thats a bit past odd.

Thats interesting that, as long as i have lived in Utah, i never knew how mormons used to feel about blacks. I looked at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_Mormonism and that is pretty crazy. I do want to say though that mormons, as annoying as they can be, are very nice people. I go to school in Salt Lake and the people there are some of the most nice high school kids you will ever find. Salt Lake also isn't as mormon/white as some people think. There are plenty of mexicans, tongans, and straight up Africans here. I honestly don't care who they put on the jazz team though as long as they can play basketball. I don't think that race has to do with anything and people need to grow up if they think it does. I think that it is possible that the jazz have gone after talented white players more than black players equally talented. But i don't think they are doing it solely to get white players like the OP said. The fact still is that the jazz have 8 black players, 5 white players, and own the third best record in the league because of the talent.

[Dizzle-2k7]

then all the foreign players arent white because they grew up outside the US.

this makes no sense at all. white is a skin color, not a race.

and kblaze owned all you suckaz... as usual.

[Kblaze8855]

I look at it like this....

If there were a state founded and populated mostly by the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers and it had the blackest teams.....

What would you assume the reason is?

Sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one. The Jazz have a lot of white players because of a mostly white fanbase who grew up learing a faith partly based on white supremacy. Its gonna reduce the number of black people who want to be there and the number anyone trying to appeal to the fans would look to aquire.

Doesnt make everyone in Utah evil. But lets be real here....whitest state outside those that border canada....60+ percent of the population part of a historically racist faith....

Even if it is pure chance they have whiter teams than most you gotta understand how someone might think otherwise.

[Xsatyr]

So you now get to decide who's white and who isn't? Is Livingston white? Is Diaw white? Rick Fox? Grant Hill? Or lets go outside of basketball. Halle Berry? Obama? Is everyone whose ancestry is both black and white automatically white according to you? Or does this only apply when you're whining about your team's loss the night before?



Malone's white?

Read Kblaze's post.

[New Jazzy Nets]

this makes no sense at all. white is a skin color, not a race.



I was saying that boozer growing up in alaska means absolutely nothing.

[Chalkmaze]

it's hard to deny that some Jazz fans are at least a little bit more into white players. not any more than it is to say that fans from Chicago are at least a little more into darker skinned players. Everyone has their leanings on a subconsious level, but I really don't see that here, it seems really fair, and there's not one going "damn, we had to get a black player", people could care less. Utah was absolutely thrilled to have Karl Malone, Adrian Dantley, Rickey Green, Tyrone Corbin, Thurl Bailey, etc... and everyone was thrilled we drafted Ronnie Brewer and could care less if he was turquoise. I've lived in Utah my whole life.. you are in another state, talking with mormons from that state who may interpret things their own way. I'm letting you know.... I'm informing you.... I am a better source than the guy from the Deseret Industries, I really don't see it the way you do, and I'd be the first to bash the place if it was like that. Nowhere is perfect, but I'd say there is very little racism here when compared with the rest of the country. I was roommates and best friends with a guy who just got off his mormon missionary from Mozambique (where he grew up), everyone loved the guy to death. It's more about fitting into the culture, not about skin color.

[SomeBunghole]

I look at it like this....

If there were a state founded and populated mostly by the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers and it had the blackest teams.....

What would you assume the reason is?

Sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one. The Jazz have a lot of white players because of a mostly white fanbase who grew up learing a faith partly based on white supremacy. Its gonna reduce the number of black people who want to be there and the number anyone trying to appeal to the fans would look to aquire.

Doesnt make everyone in Utah evil. But lets be real here....whitest state outside those that border canada....60+ percent of the population part of a historically racist faith....

Even if it is pure chance they have whiter teams than most you gotta understand how someone might think otherwise.


Correlation does not imply causation. The simplest principle of statistics.

And to say Mormonism is based on white supremacy is very misleading. To say something is based on a concept is to say that the concept is its raison d'etre. Mormonism was not founded with the purpose of opressing blacks. It is its byproduct and reflection of the time it was founded in. It was its policy for a long time, but the entire religion isn't based on it. Like most religion stemming from the Semitic root, it's based on the idea of salvation.

Not that I'm really qualified to speak on Mormon theology.

[Kblaze8855]

I've lived in Utah my whole life.. you are in another state, talking with mormons from that state who may interpret things their own way. I'm letting you know.... I'm informing you.... I am a better source than the guy from the Deseret Industries, I really don't see it the way you do, and I'd be the first to bash the place if it was like that.

What makes you a better source? Guys I spoke to are from Utah. grew up there. Still ive there. Just travel the country for the purposes of charity.

Im sure 3 people from a place can all think something different about it. I choose to take the word of those I know better.

[New Jazzy Nets]

not any more than it is to say that fans from Chicago are at least a little more into darker skinned players. Everyone has their leanings on a subconsious level, but I really don't see that here, it seems really fair, and there's not one going "damn, we had to get a black player", people could care less. Utah was absolutely thrilled to have Karl Malone, Adrian Dantley, Rickey Green, Tyrone Corbin, Thurl Bailey, etc... and everyone was thrilled we drafted Ronnie Brewer and could care less if he was turquoise. I've lived in Utah my whole life.. you are in another state, talking with mormons from that state who may interpret things their own way. I'm letting you know.... I'm informing you.... I am a better source than the guy from the Deseret Industries, I really don't see it the way you do, and I'd be the first to bash the place if it was like that. Nowhere is perfect, but I'd say there is very little racism here when compared with the rest of the country. I was roommates and best friends with a guy who just got off his mormon missionary from Mozambique (where he grew up), everyone loved the guy to death. It's more about fitting into the culture, not about skin color.

hmm wonder why you picked this color of all the colors.

this have anything to do with it?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=4183&dateline=1161193323

[Xsatyr]

not any more than it is to say that fans from Chicago are at least a little more into darker skinned players. Everyone has their leanings on a subconsious level, but I really don't see that here, it seems really fair, and there's not one going "damn, we had to get a black player", people could care less. Utah was absolutely thrilled to have Karl Malone, Adrian Dantley, Rickey Green, Tyrone Corbin, Thurl Bailey, etc... and everyone was thrilled we drafted Ronnie Brewer and could care less if he was turquoise. I've lived in Utah my whole life.. you are in another state, talking with mormons from that state who may interpret things their own way. I'm letting you know.... I'm informing you.... I am a better source than the guy from the Deseret Industries, I really don't see it the way you do, and I'd be the first to bash the place if it was like that. Nowhere is perfect, but I'd say there is very little racism here when compared with the rest of the country. I was roommates and best friends with a guy who just got off his mormon missionary from Mozambique (where he grew up), everyone loved the guy to death. It's more about fitting into the culture, not about skin color.

Your missing the point completely! The one thing I have been saying from the start that it seems the GM for Utah likes to have productive white players. Even some of the black players look white or mixed. No one is saying they hate black people and do not want them on their team. I just think they make an effort to have some white players.

[statman32]

Correlation does not imply causation. The simplest principle of statistics.

And to say Mormonism is based on white supremacy is very misleading. To say something is based on a concept is to say that the concept is its raison d'etre. Mormonism was not founded with the purpose of opressing blacks. It is its byproduct and reflection of the time it was founded in. It was its policy for a long time, but the entire religion isn't based on it. Like most religion stemming from the Semitic root, it's based on the idea of salvation.

Not that I'm really qualified to speak on Mormon theology.

No your right...I grew up morman so I would know :D

[statman32]

Your missing the point completely! The one thing I have been saying from the start that it seems the GM for Utah likes to have productive white players. Even some of the black players look white or mixed. No one is saying they hate black people and do not want them on their team. I just think they make an effort to have some white players.

Exactly and combine that with the fact that some black players dont want to live in utah and that explains why the jazz are mostly always a all white team

[Xsatyr]

Exactly and combine that with the fact that some black players dont want to live in utah and that explains why the jazz are mostly always a all white team

I think people went over board on this thread with racism.

[statman32]

I think people went over board on this thread with racism.


Lol yah probably..but some people brought up good points about racism in utah...some were just a lil out there though

[Kblaze8855]

Correlation does not imply causation. The simplest principle of statistics.

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck its a duck. The simplest principle of common sense.


And to say Mormonism is based on white supremacy is very misleading. To say something is based on a concept is to say that the concept is its raison d'etre. Mormonism was not founded with the purpose of opressing blacks. It is its byproduct and reflection of the time it was founded in. It was its policy for a long time, but the entire religion isn't based on it. Like most religion stemming from the Semitic root, it's based on the idea of salvation.

Not that I'm really qualified to speak on Mormon theology.

I said partly. And it is partly true. It wasnt founded for the sake of being racist. But cmon now....

From the book of Nephi:



For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people. (Moses 7:8).



And [God] had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God; I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities." (2 Nephi 5:21


O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God. Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness..." (Jacob 3:8-9).


Some compasion in that one. Black people are filthy and evil but dont hate them for it. I can just feel the love.

Oh and from the leader of the fundamentalist church(who believe they are closer to the "pure" teachings:


"The black race is the people through which the devil has always been able to bring evil unto the earth."

"[Cain was] cursed with a black skin and he is the father of the Negro people. He has great power, can appear and disappear. He is used by the devil, as a mortal man, to do great evils."

"Today you can see a black man with a white woman, et cetera. A great evil has happened on this land because the devil knows that if all the people have Negro blood, there will be nobody worthy to have the priesthood."

"If you marry a person who has connections with a Negro, you would become cursed."[3]

And thats not even old. Like since 2000.

There have always been racist sections of every major american faith. Christians have some real racist **** in their past. But its not such a basic part of the faith and it wasnt something officially supported by the church in modern times.

The mormons I know tell me there is a lot of undercover racism among the higher ups and its just something many are trying to change. Most mormons I bet arent really racist. But fact is most of them grew up kinda learning they are superior for being white. Im not saying it was beaten into them. Not calling them the Klan. But really now....

I cant ignore the obvious because I dont like it.

[Chalkmaze]

double post

[Chalkmaze]

What makes you a better source? Guys I spoke to are from Utah. grew up there. Still ive there. Just travel the country for the purposes of charity.

Im sure 3 people from a place can all think something different about it. I choose to take the word of those I know better.

Well whatever... regardless of what they are taught, plenty of people don't follow the teachings worth a damn anyway, and I really don't find more racism in the streets, jobs, etc. here than anywhere else in the US. I'm not about to defend the mormon church, and I don't give a damn about what they have to say in their books... They had a form of racism as they believe in different tribes of human beings related to color and that sort of ****, and although they didn't allow them to hold the priesthood, they still treated them very well. Regardless of all of that you just don't find much racism here. I've been to 48 other states, so I know that Utah as a whole is much less racist than most places.

http://blacklds.org/mormon/history.html <---- I skimmed it, it's all BS anyway, but maybe you'll find your answer or not. I am unsupportive of the mormon church, but I just don't find much racism here.. It's like me telling you that your home state has a problem with cannibolism or some ****.. it just isn't the case.

[statman32]

Kblaze you really shouldnt have brought up the fundamentalist morman church but anways

Mormans decided to let black men hold the preisthood after supposely getting "word" from above...I think that is bull**** and the real reason is because it was no longer acceptable for them not to let "blacks" hold the preisthood...and i dont understand that because morman doctrine says you will be judged only byyour transgressions...so why hold it against blacks becasue of what "dark skinned" people did in the past

Mormans also only abolished pilegamy(sp?) becasue the u.s wouldnt allow it..If it were allowed if would still be a very popular thing for mormans...tahst kinda off topic but it just pisses me off

[Hoonyo]

yes rotting, started over 30 games, played about 24 mins a night.
OH

[New Jazzy Nets]

people, its Mormons not Mormans

[Kblaze8855]

Oh im well aware the guy I mentioned isnt the norm. Like I said I dont even believe most mormons are really racist. I mentioned him to show a modern version of the racism I speak of. The kind of thing that was still supported by the church in somewhat modern times.

I know hes not the leader of the church as a whole. I dont even know if hes still free. FBI had him top 10 most wanted in the world.

[SomeBunghole]

Exactly and combine that with the fact that some black players dont want to live in utah and that explains why the jazz are mostly always a all white team

Bingo. It took 6 pages for someone to even raise the real issue. That the hand of the Jazz organization may be forced by players themselves. And we're not even talking about black players alone here. The Jazz had Rony Seikaly refused to report after being traded, because he didn't want to live in Utah. Rony Seikaly!

Not that this is a phenomenon restricted to Utah only. The Raptors, in their short history, three times traded for a former all-star, only to have the said all-star refused to report, presumably because he thought Canada was Afghanistan or something.

It's probably a good thing that only once in the last 20 years did the Jazz have a top 10 pick. Most players chosen by the Jazz were not in a position to bargain, but had they had top 3 picks consistently, like some teams, you probably would've seen players refuse to report.

[Mewwem22]

now that kblaze has just summed up how mormons think about blacks, i have a good example to show that they still are not even close to being racists. In 9th grade, my class full of white/mormon kids had to read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. I was the only black kid in the class and before we even started reading the book, my teacher pulled me aside and asked if i would be ok discussing the book and the class using the word "nigg**". Once my class started talking about how they felt about it, the whole class said how much they didn't like the book because of the slavery elements in the story and the over use of the word "nigg**". My class also had to watch videos of white supremacy and the kkk to show how stupid those people were to think about blacks that way. The class was shocked that any group of people could feel that way about black people. So obviously mormons are not taught to be racist people. So even though mormons are taught some weird things, they shouldn't be regarded as racist. Like i said before, they are some of the nicest people you will ever meet.

[statman32]

now that kblaze has just summed up how mormons think about blacks, i have a good example to show that they still are not even close to being racists. In 9th grade, my class full of white/mormon kids had to read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. I was the only black kid in the class and before we even started reading the book, my teacher pulled me aside and asked if i would be ok discussing the book and the class using the word "******". Once my class started talking about how they felt about it, the whole class said how much they didn't like the book because of the slavery elements in the story and the over use of the word "******". My class also had to watch videos of white supremacy and the kkk to show how stupid those people thought about blacks. The class was shocked that any group of people could feel that way about black people. So obviously mormons are not taught to be racist people. So even though mormons are taught some weird things, they shouldn't be regarded as racist. Like i said before, they are some of the nicest people you will ever meet.


Ok mormons nowadays arent brought up racists...that is mostly the older generation of mormons...but still when a black person walks into a mormom church people notice and everyone stares...That imo is a little racist

[Kblaze8855]

Like i said before, they are some of the nicest people you will ever meet.

I said the exact same thing.

I have never met a nicer person than those mormons. Never. To the point it felt like it almost had to be a show. Some people doing an over the top parody of nice people.

Even when talking about how there is so much undercover racism the higher up you get he had a big smile on his face.

[statman32]

I said the exact same thing.

I have never met a nicer person than those mormons. Never. To the point it felt like it almost had to be a show. Some people doing an over the top parody of nice people.

Even when talking about how there is so much undercover racism the higher up you get he had a big smile on his face.


LOL I grew up mormon so I know what you mean

Here is another "weird" thing about mormons...when a youth goes in annualy to meet with there bishop...there bishop asks if they m-a-s-t-e-r-b-a-t-e...talk about awkward...I just told him I have No problem with it :D

[Chalkmaze]

LOL I grew up mormon so I know what you mean

Here is another "weird" thing about mormons...when a youth goes in annualy to meet with there bishop...there bishop asks if they m-a-s-t-e-r-b-a-t-e...talk about awkward...I just told him I have No problem with it :D

LIES hahah :banana:

[haterofhaters]

Simple. They go to the white people store and purchase them.

[SomeBunghole]

Ok mormons nowadays arent brought up racists...that is mostly the older generation of mormons.

Older generations of white people in general were brought up racist. If you were raised in the 60s or before, chances are that you didn't grow up with a lot of friends from other ethnic, racial, or religious backgrounds.

[Xsatyr]

Bingo. It took 6 pages for someone to even raise the real issue. That the hand of the Jazz organization may be forced by players themselves. And we're not even talking about black players alone here. The Jazz had Rony Seikaly refused to report after being traded, because he didn't want to live in Utah. Rony Seikaly!

Not that this is a phenomenon restricted to Utah only. The Raptors, in their short history, three times traded for a former all-star, only to have the said all-star refused to report, presumably because he thought Canada was Afghanistan or something.

It's probably a good thing that only once in the last 20 years did the Jazz have a top 10 pick. Most players chosen by the Jazz were not in a position to bargain, but had they had top 3 picks consistently, like some teams, you probably would've seen players refuse to report.

Yes that is the only reason, I am sure of it. Ignore the simple truth. Most players such as Steve Francis who has publicly stated did not want to go to the Raptors bc of taxes.

[Xsatyr]

now that kblaze has just summed up how mormons think about blacks, i have a good example to show that they still are not even close to being racists. In 9th grade, my class full of white/mormon kids had to read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. I was the only black kid in the class and before we even started reading the book, my teacher pulled me aside and asked if i would be ok discussing the book and the class using the word "nigg**". Once my class started talking about how they felt about it, the whole class said how much they didn't like the book because of the slavery elements in the story and the over use of the word "nigg**". My class also had to watch videos of white supremacy and the kkk to show how stupid those people were to think about blacks that way. The class was shocked that any group of people could feel that way about black people. So obviously mormons are not taught to be racist people. So even though mormons are taught some weird things, they shouldn't be regarded as racist. Like i said before, they are some of the nicest people you will ever meet.

I don't think your GM was in that class, check the roll to be sure.

[SomeBunghole]

Yes that is the only reason, I am sure of it. Ignore the simple truth. Most players such as Steve Francis who has publicly stated did not want to go to the Raptors bc of taxes.

Francis was drafted when by the Raptors exactly?

Oh, and the taxes excuse is right up there with Spree's kids not having food excuse. I'm sure an extra couple of percentage points in taxes must be terrible when you're making millions.

[knicks15]

Francis was drafted when by the Raptors exactly?

Oh, and the taxes excuse is right up there with Spree's kids not having food excuse. I'm sure an extra couple of percentage points in taxes must be terrible when you're making millions.

canadians pay a lot higher percentage in tax than in the US

[SomeBunghole]

canadians pay a lot higher percentage in tax than in the US

And yet somehow, we manage to make ends meet. And most of us don't make nearly the kind of money Francis would have. Furthermore, I don't think Chris Bosh is panhandling outside the Air Canada Centre, so I think Francis would've been just fine.

[statman32]

MEWMEW...I know this is ot but who cares..most of this thread is

For those kids or anybody to say they didnt like huckfinn becasue of the slave elements and niqqa being used is dumb...Huckfinn is a very good book and should not be considered a racist book at all

[Xsatyr]

And yet somehow, we manage to make ends meet. And most of us don't make nearly the kind of money Francis would have. Furthermore, I don't think Chris Bosh is panhandling outside the Air Canada Centre, so I think Francis would've been just fine.

Obviously you are getting paid millions, either way your rich. But to say they do not care about taxes? Taxes=money
Why would people hire agents if money was not important? It does not matter which sport we are talking about, players always try to get as much as they can. Reggie Bush said he wanted the Texans to draft him bc Texas did not have state taxes. Your a fool if you think otherwise. Which is why you probably think the Jazz don't look for white players.

[SomeBunghole]

Obviously you are getting paid millions, either way your rich. But to say they do not care about taxes? Taxes=money
Why would people hire agents if money was not important? It does not matter which sport we are talking about, players always try to get as much as they can. Reggie Bush said he wanted the Texans to draft him bc Texas did not have state taxes.

Whatever way you wanna spin it, his conduct makes Francis a real piece of sh*t as a person. So much so that I take enormous pleasure in watching his career go down the toilet right now, as some kind of a karmic justice for what he did.

[haterofhaters]

Canadian tax is 15% which is ridiculously high... but getting free health care would be the sh!t. Here i've spent $500 at a hospital just to be given some motrin and told to drink lots of fluids.

[Xsatyr]

Whatever way you wanna spin it, his conduct makes Francis a real piece of sh*t as a person. So much so that I take enormous pleasure in watching his career go down the toilet right now, as some kind of a karmic justice for what he did.

I can't hate him, I am a Rockets fan but I certainly do not like him.

[knicks15]

Whatever way you wanna spin it, his conduct makes Francis a real piece of sh*t as a person. So much so that I take enormous pleasure in watching his career go down the toilet right now, as some kind of a karmic justice for what he did.

would you rather be making 7 mill in your country or 5 mill in another?

[SomeBunghole]

I can't hate him, I am a Rockets fan but I certainly do not like him.

I wasn't a fan of Grizzlies then or now, but I hate him for the same reason I hated Danny Ferry in the 80s and 90s. The draft system isn't perfect, but you as a player have no right to try to f*ck with it. I'm sorry that you weren't drafted by the team you wanted to be drafted by, but them's the breaks. Most players don't get drafted by their preferred teams. If it wasn't like that, though, who'd play in Milwaukee, or Utah, or Toronto?

[SomeBunghole]

would you rather be making 7 mill in your country or 5 mill in another?

It's called the draft for a reason. You don't get to pick and choose where you play. If you did, it wouldn't have the same name as the instituion of forcing young men in uniform and forcing them to die in some god-forsaken place. It'd be called The Annual NBA Please-pick-my-team-you-talented-college-phenom Extravaganza.

[eliteballer]

Hopefully the Mailman started to open up their minds and hearts.

[reppy]

Elijah Abel (July 25, 1810 - December 25, 1884) was the first black Elder and Seventy in The Latter Day Saint movement, and one of the few black members in the early history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to receive the priesthood.

Abel was born in Maryland as a slave, and is believed to have escaped slavery on the Underground Railroad into Canada. He was baptized in September 1832 by Ezekiel Roberts, and he married Mary Ann Adams, another African American.

He was ordained an Elder in March 1836 in Kirtland, Ohio, probably by Joseph Smith, Jr.. In December 1836, he was ordained a Seventy by Zebedee Coltrin and became a "duly licensed minister of the Gospel" for missionary work in Ohio. He also served missions in New York and Canada. In 1839, he was made a member of the Nauvoo Seventies Quorum. In Nauvoo, he worked as a mortician, at the request of Joseph Smith. He was a carpenter by profession, and assisted in the construction of temples in Kirtland, Nauvoo, and Salt Lake City.

In 1841, when Joseph Smith was arrested in Quincy, Illinois, Elijah Abel was among a group of seven elders including Hosea Stout who set out from Nauvoo to try and rescue him, although by the time they reached Quincy, Smith had been taken back to Nauvoo (History of the Church, 4:365).

In 1843, he served a mission in New York.

In 1847, he accompanied Brigham Young to Utah, where he managed a hotel. As a carpenter, he assisted in constructing the Salt Lake Temple; however, in 1853 he was barred by Brigham Young from receiving his own Endowment.

In Utah, Abel remained a Seventy, and in 1884 he served a final mission in Canada, during which he became ill. He died upon his return home to Utah.

At least two of Abel's descendants were ordained to the priesthood, his grandson being ordained an Elder on September 29, 1935.

In 2002, a monument was erected in Salt Lake City over his grave site to memorialize Abel and his wife. The monument was dedicated by LDS Apostle Elder M. Russell Ballard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Abel

Don't know if it's true or not, but whatever. I also NEVER heard anything regarding race brought up in church. Ever.

[Kblaze8855]

I read about him. Apparently Smith spoke out against slavery(to some degree) too.

[Xsatyr]

Nothing on this page has anything to do with the thread title.
Well when I typed this, I was reading the page before, obviously. So not this page but the one before. That might help those with lesser intelligence who are not capable of connecting the two.

[Chalkmaze]

edit

[New Jazzy Nets]

Okay why everyone thinks the jazz go after white guys, heres a thought for ya. The Jazz like to get character guys. paul punched some dude in the nuts you think the jazz really want that? Sloan runs a tight ship, maybe the reason the jazz are known for being a white team is because you dont hear about a lot of white guys who have character issues. im not saying that all black people have character issues, but this is just a theory, so all of you people that say the jazz go after white players is true to an extent, the jazz look for good character guys. This is why you wont see a artest or marbury on the jazz. And lastly the jazz want guys who will work their ass off. And again not saying that blacks dont work their ass off, but some white guys think they have to bust their ass because history says that black players are better then white.

[haterofhaters]

Okay why everyone thinks the jazz go after white guys, heres a thought for ya. The Jazz like to get character guys. paul punched some dude in the nuts you think the jazz really want that? Sloan runs a tight ship, maybe the reason the jazz are known for being a white team is because you dont hear about a lot of white guys who have character issues. im not saying that all black people have character issues, but this is just a theory, so all of you people that say the jazz go after white players is true to an extent, the jazz look for good character guys. This is why you wont see a artest or marbury on the jazz. And lastly the jazz want guys who will work their ass off. And again not saying that blacks dont work their ass off, but some white guys think they have to bust their ass because history says that black players are better then white.

That's the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

[raiderfan19]

the stupidity of this thread is that 2 of the guys arent white and none of them are an american born white which is mostly what you would try to market to these racist mormons that you are apparently so worried about. Its a turkish guy, a russian guy, a black guy from alaska, and i dont know exactly what deron williams is but overall thats pretty damn diverse.

[JohnnyBravo5]

the stupidity of this thread is that 2 of the guys arent white and none of them are an american born white which is mostly what you would try to market to these racist mormons that you are apparently so worried about. Its a turkish guy, a russian guy, a black guy from alaska, and i dont know exactly what deron williams is but overall thats pretty damn diverse.

Err Russian=White.

Turkish guy could be arguable, but in America...he's white too:)

[ALBballer]

Err Russian=White.

Turkish guy could be arguable, but in America...he's white too:)

Turks are white as long as they can play ball, but when he's pumping gas in your car, he's just another towel head.:rolleyes:

[Cannonball]

Okay why everyone thinks the jazz go after white guys, heres a thought for ya. The Jazz like to get character guys. paul punched some dude in the nuts you think the jazz really want that? Sloan runs a tight ship, maybe the reason the jazz are known for being a white team is because you dont hear about a lot of white guys who have character issues. im not saying that all black people have character issues, but this is just a theory, so all of you people that say the jazz go after white players is true to an extent, the jazz look for good character guys. This is why you wont see a artest or marbury on the jazz. And lastly the jazz want guys who will work their ass off. And again not saying that blacks dont work their ass off, but some white guys think they have to bust their ass because history says that black players are better then white.


You just said black people have character issues... in a round about way.

[New Jazzy Nets]

You just said black people have character issues... in a round about way.

No i said that there more known for having character issues. im not racist in anyway. I was very careful in what i typed. i didnt want to offend people. but how many times do you honestly hear about pat garrity was arrested today for DUI or missing consecutive practices. It's a bad stero type but blacks are talked about more for having character issues. im sure therews just as many of any race that have character issues but the black guys are the ones who get talked about and get a bad rep.

[Rasheed1]

No i said that there more known for having character issues. im not racist in anyway. I was very careful in what i typed. i didnt want to offend people. but how many times do you honestly hear about pat garrity was arrested today for DUI or missing consecutive practices. It's a bad stero type but blacks are talked about more for having character issues. im sure therews just as many of any race that have character issues but the black guys are the ones who get talked about and get a bad rep.

The league is majority black, so of course most of the issues will revolve around black players... at the same time, blacks are majority, so the best players are black... therefore, while your logic would avoid a few more incidents, it would also cut down your chances of winning anything too..

bottomline is, no need to use silly reasons to justify the Jazz roster.. If they want all white players, thats their business... its not like its hurting the rest of the league at all

:confusedshrug:

[statman32]

You want to know what happens when the jazz draft black players????


Utah Jazz rookie DeShawn Stevenson has been charged with raping a 14 year-old girl, a prosecutor said Tuesday.


Former Jazz center writes of trying to hide homosexuality

[QUOTE]At about 2:30 a.m. Oct. 23, RiverPlace employees saw Brown, Williams, Brewer and Milsap enter the hotel lobby with the woman. The players appeared to have to convince the woman to go farther, Rees wrote, but after a little time they all got in an elevator and went up to the fourth floor together.

About 40 minutes later, according to Rees

[saKf]

This whole thread is a debacle.

[raiderfan19]

are we going based on actual skin pigment? because if so, Mike bibby is the whitest player in the league.

[CakeorDeath]

Just to clear up some things which I have read in this thread.

-As far as I know, Deron Williams is NOT half-white. His mother is black and his father is Asian (however, I have only heard this from various people, I do not know for a fact).

-Both Larry Miller (Jazz owner) and Kevin O'Connor (Jazz GM) wanted to take Chris Paul two years ago, but Jerry Sloan wanted Deron Williams because of his size, defense, and jumpshot. The organization decided to take the guy that the coach thought was better for the team/system. Many Utah fans still regret not taking Paul (though that has changed a lot this season), so you can't argue that all of Utah wanted Williams because he's "whiter."

-In its draft history, over 2/3 of players drafted by the Jazz have been black. Of the remaining 1/3 who were white, a large portion were foreign born. The Jazz have rarely drafted American born white players. Since Kevin O'Connor became Jazz GM in 2000, the team has drafted 17 players; 13 are black, one (Kris Humphries) is of mixed race, and the remaining 3 white players (Raul Lopez, Sasha Pavlovic, Pavel Podkolzine) are all foreign born (though to be fair, the Jazz did trade the rights of two black players for one white player, Curtis Borchardt). The Jazz have drafted exactly 2 American white players (Nate Erdmann, Scott Padgett) in the last ten years, neither by the current GM.

-The Wizards have no white players; the Pistons only one (Delfino), who is foreign-born. To call them anti-white would be the result of an egregious jumping to conclusions. To say that they are just appealing to a local culture (considering that the general conception of both cities as being predominantly black has been influenced by popular culture) would be the same.

-Many black players have publicly stated that they would not want to play/live in Salt Lake City for a number of reasons. As we all remember, SLC topped the list of least desireable NBA cities for players. The Jazz are in the business of making the team as good as possible, and they chase any player that they think can make them better. However, the fact is, not all players are willing to sign an offer sheet/deal with the Jazz because of common misconceptions about Utah and its culture. As has been pointed out, these misconceptions are not strictly applied to black players, either. Rony Seikly refused to come here, and Dirk Nowitzki has publically cited Utah as the "worst city (sic) in the NBA." Dirk Nowitzki is also a dumbass.

-The vast majority of free agents signed/trades initiated by GM Kevin O'Connor since joining the Jazz in 2000 have been for non-white players. Included: John Starks, Donyell Marshall, Mark Jackson, Devin Brown, Keith McCleod, Milt Palacio, Corey Maggette (offer sheet), Elton Brand (offer sheet), Carlos Arroyo, Raja Bell, John Amaechi, Carlos Boozer, Calbert Cheaney, Keon Clark (who immediately demanded to be traded), Elden Campbell (who refused to report), Michael Ruffin, Mikki Moore, Tony Massenburg, and Danny Manning.

[RAPSCANWIN]

Does this mean we're Racist up here in Canada too. Cause The Raptors can through out Bargniani, Garbajosa, Nesterovic and Calderon with Anthony Parker as a Meleto.
NNNOOOOOOOOOO.

As others have said in this thread, Utah goes after quality people and Basketball players no matter what their Race. they could easily have a dominantly black team too. Its just the way it worked out.

[kav23]

whitest state outside those that border canada....

Yeah, Michigan and New York are sooo white :wtf: :rolleyes:

I agree that Alaska, Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine are pretty white. Washington and Minnesota are too, but to a lesser degree.

[ChuckOakley]

If I had to guess, I would say the Jazz are just trying put out a quality product, and based upon their record for the last 20 years or so, I'd say they know what they are doing.

Furthermore, I doubt they have intentionally made decisions that they thought would compromise the team's success.

[johndough]

If I had to guess, I would say the Jazz are just trying put out a quality product, and based upon their record for the last 20 years or so, I'd say they know what they are doing.

Furthermore, I doubt they have intentionally made decisions that they thought would compromise the team's success.


Yup.It's all about those dollar signs.White, black no matter.

[j Fresh]

very interesting subject...

FACT: The Utah Jazz have alot of white players.

FACT: Most Mormons are or were racist toward blacks, and they beleive(d) that blacks are cursed by God.

FACT: Karl Malone is indeed white. (wears Cowboy boots, hat, tight jeans and shirt,listens to country music etc.)

FACT: The Jazz used to be in New Orleans, but then moved to Utah. Utah and Jazz have little to nothing in coming.

FACT: This is the way life is.

[knicks15]

Does this mean we're Racist up here in Canada too. Cause The Raptors can through out Bargniani, Garbajosa, Nesterovic and Calderon with Anthony Parker as a Meleto.
NNNOOOOOOOOOO.

As others have said in this thread, Utah goes after quality people and Basketball players no matter what their Race. they could easily have a dominantly black team too. Its just the way it worked out.

and has traditionally gone that way. and my guess is it will continue to. for as long as i remember theyve always had a lot of white people on their team. some people recently who i can remember: greg foster, scott padgett, todd fuller, adam keefe, greg ostertag. and they were all at pretty much the same time(maybe same team). none of which were good at anything...except being white:oldlol:

[ak47smohawk]

very interesting subject...

FACT: Karl Malone is indeed white. (wears Cowboy boots, hat, tight jeans and shirt,listens to country music etc.)


FACT: You are a retard if you believe that skin color is determined by the way someone dresses and the music they prefer.

[JtotheIzzo]

FACT: Karl Malone is indeed white. (wears Cowboy boots, hat, tight jeans and shirt,listens to country music etc.)


Fact: you are a racist because you expect people to behave to the stereotypes of their culture.

Fact: I am white and Karl Malone is one hundred times more likely to get shot by the police than me because he is indeed BLACK.

The guy grew up in the falkin sticks and spent his professional life in Utah. Do you expect him to be 'hood?

Aint you ever heard of Charlie Pride?

http://www.knowitall.org/gullahmusic/journey/photos/pride.jpg

[saKf]

This whole thread is a debacle.
What he said.

[knicks15]

and has traditionally gone that way. and my guess is it will continue to. for as long as i remember theyve always had a lot of white people on their team. some people recently who i can remember: greg foster, scott padgett, todd fuller, adam keefe, greg ostertag. and they were all at pretty much the same time(maybe same team). none of which were good at anything...except being white:oldlol:


agreed. good points.

[JtotheIzzo]

http://www.knowitall.org/gullahmusic/journey/photos/pride.jpg


nice call on the Charlie pride, that dude kept it real foreal!

*I figured I'd get in on the whole quote yourself game.:rockon:

[j Fresh]

Fact: you are a racist because you expect people to behave to the stereotypes of their culture.

Fact: I am white and Karl Malone is one hundred times more likely to get shot by the police than me because he is indeed BLACK.

The guy grew up in the falkin sticks and spent his professional life in Utah. Do you expect him to be 'hood?

Aint you ever heard of Charlie Pride?

http://www.knowitall.org/gullahmusic/journey/photos/pride.jpg

FACT: You are retarted for not knowing sarcasm.

You call me a racist, and yet you say Karl Malone is 100% more likely to get shot by the cops. And I am the racist right? :confusedshrug: :rolleyes:

And who the f is Charlie Pride? :confusedshrug:

[Interminator]

ISH classic.

[darius15]

One of the dumbest threads ever.

Also, Mormons are nice people, they're not racist scumbags. They just have really weird beliefs. The Jazz play in Salt Lake City, which has a liberal, non Mormon culture.

[phoenix18]

One of the dumbest threads ever.

Also, Mormons are nice people, they're not racist scumbags. They just have really weird beliefs. The Jazz play in Salt Lake City, which has a liberal, non Mormon culture.
Outside of House, have you seen a black mormon?

[Mewwem22]

Outside of House, have you seen a black mormon?
Thurl Bailey and Gladys Knight off the top of my head...
But yeah, they may be few in number, but they exist.

And the statement that SLC is actually a more liberal and non-mormon area is actually pretty accurate. Obama almost won the majority of the vote last election here in SLC... As a state whole though, yeah it's pretty mormon and white. (Not that that's a huge problem though. Most mormons are pretty awesome actually.)

And btw, i remember this thread. :oldlol:
Good times ISH, good times...

[ihatetimthomas]

Would it be all that outlandish if the Jazz owner turned out to be racist? I mean, lets not act like racisim doesn't exist in the United States. I am not saying anyone in Utah is racist, but these people are human beings. And so are team owners. We live in a world where everything is not perfect, and humans are far from it too.

[darius15]

Outside of House, have you seen a black mormon?

That's because their beliefs are messed up, and yes they were racist in the past, not anymore though.

[YAH trick YAH]

Would it be all that outlandish if the Jazz owner turned out to be racist? I mean, lets not act like racisim doesn't exist in the United States. I am not saying anyone in Utah is racist, but these people are human beings. And so are team owners. We live in a world where everything is not perfect, and humans are far from it too.

Well the owner from when this thread started is dead, so we may never know.

[Chalkmaze]

Most mormons are pretty awesome actually.)

We're gonna have to disagree on that one Mew LOL... But yeah, they're not like what most people think (outside of Utah)

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________

I think people outside of Utah often hate mormons for the wrong reasons though. Believe me, there's plenty to bash on the mormons for and I do all the time, but people on this board bash them for things that arn't really true.

The old Jazz owner Larry Miller was not racist either. That's easily observable to anyone who's paid attention for the last 25 years.

[iDunk]

Ask the 2002 Sacramento Kings.

[gigantes]

do they search for white people or something i mean their 4 best players arent black. im not sure what deron williams is but he doesnt look totally black, boozer might be but he's alaskan, kirilenko, okur. Add in matt harpring.
what's unusual about white people being more reliable and earning jobs?

the NBA is not a league of pure athletic talent, you know.

[godofgods]

Damn, racism in this board and in America is getting out of hand.

[batneg12]

Ask the 2002 Sacramento Kings.

Bibby/Christie/Peja/Webber/Vlade... Then Turk and Pollard off the bench.

[Killer_Instinct]

Anyone ever see a minority in the audience?

[phoenix18]

Anyone ever see a minority in the audience?
Nope. I cannot recall.

[Raider007]

Even the Octomom would have aborted this thread.:(

[magnax1]

What the heck is the point of this thread? To prove Jazz fans are racist? Mormoens (exactly how do you spell that?) are racist?
Anyway, please don't say Kirilenko is one of the Jazz 4 best players again, and why are you calling D-Will and Boozer white?

[phoenix18]

This thread makes me get the giggles. Good job.

[Raider007]

This thread makes me get the giggles. Good job.
giggles?

Have a can of man:D

[phoenix18]

giggles?

Have a can of man:D
:oldlol: Hey, its very rare when I laugh so this thread is a great one in my book. And I will keep on giggling proudly. No matter what you say.