Which center in NBA history would be the biggest defensive challenge for Shaq?

[jongib369]

Who would defend him the best? And could anyone hold him below 50%?

It would either be Wilt Chamberlain or Nate Thurmond IMO






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh90_lXqh5o

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/HolyGrailSports/1970s-NateThurmond.jpg


I am posting the aggregated stats of Kareem against Nate Thurmond during the period 1969 - 1973 season by season, as in that period both players met 3 times in the playoffs and in total of 34 times (including the regular season meetings):

1969 - 1970 (Kareem's rookie season) 3 games - reg.season

Kareem - 42.0 mpg 21.67 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, 0.348 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 46.7 mpg 20.67 ppg, 17.0 rpg, 3.3 apg, 0.490 FG/FGA

1970 - 1971 6 games - reg.season

Kareem - 26.67 ppg, 14.7 rpg, 0.484 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 23.83 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 0.477 FG/FGA

1970 - 1971 5 games - playoffs

Kareem - 39.2 mpg 27.8 ppg, 15.6 rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.486 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 38.4 mpg 17.60 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.0 apg, 0.371 FG/FGA

1971 - 1972 3 games - reg.season

Kareem - 24.00 ppg, 16.3 rpg, 0.441 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 16.33 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 0.260 FG/FGA

1972 - 1973 5 games - playoffs

Kareem - 47.0 mpg 22.8 ppg, 19.0 rpg, 5.4 apg, 0.405 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 46.0 mpg 25.40 ppg, 17.8 rpg, 5.2 apg, 0.434 FG/FGA

1972 - 1973 6 games - reg.season

Kareem - 25.83 ppg, 13.7 rpg, 0.488 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 13.67 ppg, 15.0 rpg, 0.367 FG/FGA

1972 - 1973 6 games - playoffs

Kareem - 46.0 mpg 22.83 ppg, 16.2 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.428 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 42.5 mpg 13.5 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.423 FG/FGA


Side question, who WAS shaqs biggest challenge defensively?

[Foster5k]

'04 Ben Wallace

[daj0264]

The only person capable of keeping shaq under 50% is shaq. Wilt would keep him in the low 50s imo but i never saw wilt play so maybe he is better defensively then i think.

[Rubio2Gasol]

A 7' foot 260 Chuck Hayes.

[willds09]

hakeem

[Myth]

I'm going with Russell even though he isn't very big.

[jzek]

Prime Mutombo and not 76'ers Mutombo.

[Xsatyr]

hakeem

Shaq can score on Hakeem and vice versa. Hakeem is the overall better player though imho.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I've suspected Nate Thurmond or Lakers Wilt for a while. Thurmond has stated that he didn't think he could guard guys like Shaq or Yao, but I think he'd do s well as anyone. Once players get to a certain level of dominance offensively, you can't hope to stop them, but as far as limiting Shaq and making him work harder, I see that as possible. I think Artis Gilmore could do a good job as well. For the most part, to be successful in limiting prime Shaq, your best bet was a center that could negate some of his size and strength advantage as well as a good team defense. See the 2000 WCF for a good example of this.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I've suspected Nate Thurmond or Lakers Wilt for a while. Thurmond has stated that he didn't think he could guard guys like Shaq or Yao, but I think he'd do s well as anyone. Once players get to a certain level of dominance offensively, you can't hope to stop them, but as far as limiting Shaq and making him work harder, I see that as possible. I think Artis Gilmore could do a good job as well. For the most part, to be successful in limiting prime Shaq, your best bet was a center that could negate some of his size and strength advantage as well as a good team defense. See the 2000 WCF for a good example of this.

I think your best bet would be to get him in foul trouble ---------------> on the next side of the court. Under today's riles I'd zone and deny post entry lanes and foul hard if he catches it. Not even bothering to have someone try to stop him from posting up.

[Trollsmasher]

How about Mark Eaton? I don't really know a lot about him so if anyone could elaborate?

[willds09]

Shaq can score on Hakeem and vice versa. Hakeem is the overall better player though imho.
but hakeem is his biggest defensive challenge, especially with his post moves and all

[Orlando Magic]

'04 Ben Wallace

More like '04 Kobe Bryant, you ****ing moron.

[DonDadda59]

Tim Duncan was the only player I saw during Shaq's prime who could somewhat effectively play him 1 on 1.

[Guy Ledouche]

Wilt would be the best at guarding him, but I don't think he'd be able to hold Shaq under 50%. I don't think any player in history could do that.

Eaton would be way too slow to guard Shaq.

[QuebecBaller]

Hakeem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvMZU9fbpiY

[TonyMontana]

Wilt is the only center with the natural strength and size to have a chance vs Prime Shaquille O'Neal

Tired of seeing Thurmond get posted as some ironman. Its always that same pic too. Just because the guy is vascular doesn't mean hes stronger than Shaq :oldlol:. Wilt and Shaq are in a class of their own in terms of strength.

[Odinn]

Wilt would be the best at guarding him, but I don't think he'd be able to hold Shaq under 50%. I don't think any player in history could do that.
In 1999 playoffs, Shaq scored on 49.3% against the Spurs.
In 2002 playoffs, Shaq scored on 44.7% against the Spurs.

Duncan-DRob was a great duo defensively. While holding Shaq under 50% is quite tough, it's not completely impossible.

[ProfessorMurder]

A real prime Sabonis or Wilt would be the best. But if he was called for offensive fouls a lot more could make it competitive.


Tired of seeing Thurmond get posted as some ironman. Its always that same pic too.

That's not the pic that's always posted, this is:

http://i40.tinypic.com/292xmra.jpg

[plowking]

Sabonis in his prime.

I'd also love to see how Shaq would fare against flat footed, immovable beast Aaron Gray. LOL...
Dude is as slow as they come, both in the head and with his feet, but he is immovable. Strong as an axe.

[Nick Young]

Greg Ostertag guarded Shaq 1v1 better than any other player. He was a tree, a 7'2 tree

[Nick Young]

Tim Duncan was the only player I saw during Shaq's prime who could somewhat effectively play him 1 on 1.
I remember Shaq shitting on Duncan 1v1. Shaq only had trouble with the D-Rob/Duncan double team but 1v1 he easily scored on either of them.

That's why Popovich invented the hack a shaq, conventional methods didn't work.

LOL@ idiots saying Hakeem was a better player.

He knew more moves, but also he took more moves and spent more energy to accomplish what Shaq could simply by bullying his defender and putting up a baby hook

[DuMa]

focused and in shape derrick coleman.

[jongib369]

Wilt is the only center with the natural strength and size to have a chance vs Prime Shaquille O'Neal

Tired of seeing Thurmond get posted as some ironman. Its always that same pic too. Just because the guy is vascular doesn't mean hes stronger than Shaq :oldlol:. Wilt and Shaq are in a class of their own in terms of strength.
[IMG]
I am posting the aggregated stats of Kareem against Nate Thurmond during the period 1969 - 1973 season by season, as in that period both players met 3 times in the playoffs and in total of 34 times (including the regular season meetings):

1969 - 1970 (Kareem's rookie season) 3 games - reg.season

Kareem - 42.0 mpg 21.67 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, 0.348 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 46.7 mpg 20.67 ppg, 17.0 rpg, 3.3 apg, 0.490 FG/FGA

1970 - 1971 6 games - reg.season

Kareem - 26.67 ppg, 14.7 rpg, 0.484 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 23.83 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 0.477 FG/FGA

1970 - 1971 5 games - playoffs

Kareem - 39.2 mpg 27.8 ppg, 15.6 rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.486 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 38.4 mpg 17.60 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.0 apg, 0.371 FG/FGA

1971 - 1972 3 games - reg.season

Kareem - 24.00 ppg, 16.3 rpg, 0.441 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 16.33 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 0.260 FG/FGA

1972 - 1973 5 games - playoffs

Kareem - 47.0 mpg 22.8 ppg, 19.0 rpg, 5.4 apg, 0.405 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 46.0 mpg 25.40 ppg, 17.8 rpg, 5.2 apg, 0.434 FG/FGA

1972 - 1973 6 games - reg.season

Kareem - 25.83 ppg, 13.7 rpg, 0.488 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 13.67 ppg, 15.0 rpg, 0.367 FG/FGA

1972 - 1973 6 games - playoffs

Kareem - 46.0 mpg 22.83 ppg, 16.2 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.428 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 42.5 mpg 13.5 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.423 FG/FGA

:wtf:

[willds09]

Tim Duncan was the only player I saw during Shaq's prime who could somewhat effectively play him 1 on 1.
u forgetting someone:rolleyes:

[AintNoSunshine]

I don't think there is anyone thruout the history of the game can effectively stop Shaq, look what he did to a 7'2 4 times DOY Mutombo.

However I do believe there are many legendary centers who would give Shaq fits on the offensive end, Kareem, Hakeem, Wilt, etc.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'm really not sure a prime Sabonis would be more effective in limiting Shaq's offense than 2000 Sabonis was. There are 2 reasons for this. One being that Sabonis was about as heavy as Shaq by that point, and another being that very rarely do player's devote as much energy to stopping a star player when they're also relied on to be a first or second option. A prime Sabonis is likely a 20+ ppg scorer who would have the offense run through him a lot due to his passing. With that in mind, he'd have to conserve a bit more energy and foul trouble would become a much bigger issue. This does go both ways though as Shaq would have to work harder defending Sabonis in the post, in addition to Sabonis hitting the outside shot, which he was already able to exploit vs Shaq.

This is a big misconception I see with fans who are obsessed with individual match ups is the belief that a certain player held his own when he was old against another player in his prime so that means he'd dominate them if both were in their primes. Often times, it's a case of the older player really getting up for that one game(most players who were former greats still have nights where they can play like superstars, the difference is often not being able to do it on a consistent basis) and the other factor being a reduced offensive role which can allow your focus to be more on the defensive end. Once you're offense isn't as important and you're not relied on for 35+ minutes, fouls aren't as much of an issue, but if you're expected to play big minutes and produce like a star offensively then you really can't afford to take as many risks.

I would put Sabonis as one of the best I've seen at limiting Shaq with the others being legit 7 footers also up around 300 pounds or more(Ostertag and Longley) but Sabonis was only a part of Portland's defense vs Shaq. He was big enough to prevent Shaq from getting deep position as frequently, which allowed Pippen to double on the catch. Take away Pippen and Portland's defensive strategy and Shaq actually dominated Sabonis 2 years in a row in the playoffs('97 and '98) with the latter year being a season Sabonis put up 16/10/3 over 32 mpg in as opposed to the 12/8/1, 26 mpg he averaged during the 2000 season.

[deja vu]

Yao

[KB24]

Arvydas Sabonis

[Djahjaga]

I'm really not sure a prime Sabonis would be more effective in limiting Shaq's offense than 2000 Sabonis was. There are 2 reasons for this. One being that Sabonis was about as heavy as Shaq by that point, and another being that very rarely do player's devote as much energy to stopping a star player when they're also relied on to be a first or second option. A prime Sabonis is likely a 20+ ppg scorer who would have the offense run through him a lot due to his passing. With that in mind, he'd have to conserve a bit more energy and foul trouble would become a much bigger issue. This does go both ways though as Shaq would have to work harder defending Sabonis in the post, in addition to Sabonis hitting the outside shot, which he was already able to exploit vs Shaq.

This is a big misconception I see with fans who are obsessed with individual match ups is the belief that a certain player held his own when he was old against another player in his prime so that means he'd dominate them if both were in their primes. Often times, it's a case of the older player really getting up for that one game(most players who were former greats still have nights where they can play like superstars, the difference is often not being able to do it on a consistent basis) and the other factor being a reduced offensive role which can allow your focus to be more on the defensive end. Once you're offense isn't as important and you're not relied on for 35+ minutes, fouls aren't as much of an issue, but if you're expected to play big minutes and produce like a star offensively then you really can't afford to take as many risks.

I would put Sabonis as one of the best I've seen at limiting Shaq with the others being legit 7 footers also up around 300 pounds or more(Ostertag and Longley) but Sabonis was only a part of Portland's defense vs Shaq. He was big enough to prevent Shaq from getting deep position as frequently, which allowed Pippen to double on the catch. Take away Pippen and Portland's defensive strategy and Shaq actually dominated Sabonis 2 years in a row in the playoffs('97 and '98) with the latter year being a season Sabonis put up 16/10/3 over 32 mpg in as opposed to the 12/8/1, 26 mpg he averaged during the 2000 season.

Well f*cking said. Repped.

Do you think this complicates the so-called "bridge" argument (i.e. Kareem played against Wilt and guys like Hakeem/Ewing)?

[Artillery]

I remember Shaq shitting on Duncan 1v1. Shaq only had trouble with the D-Rob/Duncan double team but 1v1 he easily scored on either of them.


Actually, you're wrong. Here's an analysis of the Spurs defense against Shaq in the early 2000s from another website:

I decided to go over the 01, 02, 03 Lakers/Spurs playoffs series to see who was primarily guarding Shaq and how effective they were in guarding him. I didn't go over every possession, but I decided to look at every FGA and turnovers forced that Shaq had in those games. I didn't get every game from that 01-03 span, but I did get a majority of the games.

vs. Duncan: 21-49 (.429), 8 TOV (5 of them charges/offensive fouls drawn)

vs. Robinson: 31-63 (.492), 5 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Rose: 15-27 (.556), 2 TOV (2 offensive fouls)

vs. Other big men (Bryant, Willis, Walker): 6-12, 1 TOV (1 offensive foul)

vs. Guards: 0-3

vs. open shots with no one guarding Shaq: 11-13

I also kept track of double teams both before the shot and double teams during the shot (sometimes both happened). I didn't count double teams that had no effect on the shot or soft double teams.

vs. Duncan: 11 before shot, 14 after shot, 20 total double teams (35.1% double team%)

vs. Robinson: 10 before shot, 15 after shot, 23 total double teams (33.8% double team%)

vs. Rose: 4 before shot, 5 after shot (33.3% double team%)

vs. other big men: 2 before shot, 3 after shot, 3 total double teams (23.1 double team%)

In 2003, The Spurs made a concerted effort not to double Shaq. They even mentioned it in one of the broadcasts where Popovich told them that they didn't want anyone else to beat them. In the other years, Shaq got a decent amount of double teams and very few triple teams. Most of the double teams I saw were soft and had no effect. Shaq was making his move by the time the double came.


Now here are the stats for who was guarding Shaq in the games Duncan/Robinson played (Robinson missed 1 of the games). This is why I started the project. I wanted to see if Robinson was the sole Shaq defender or if the Spurs took turns defending him.

Duncan 31.0%
Robinson 46.9%
Rose 19.3%
Willis 2.1%
Walker 0.7%

I didn't include any wide open shots or times when guards defended him. Usually, Robinson started off the game vs. Shaq. Then Rose would come in and guard Shaq and take turns with Duncan. Usually in the middle of the game, Duncan and Robinson took turns guarding Shaq even in clutch situations.

Duncan looked slightly better vs. Shaq and the numbers back it up. There were plenty of instances where Shaq couldn't back down Duncan. But Shaq did dunk on him quite a bit. Shaq dunked on everyone from the Spurs.


That's why Popovich invented the hack a shaq, conventional methods didn't work.

Pop didn't invent the hack-a-shaq. Don Nelson did in the early 90s but the Blazers and Pacers were the earliest teams to use it on Shaq. Rick Adelman too.

[wally_world]

Kendrick Perkins all day every day

[Patrick Chewing]

How about Mark Eaton? I don't really know a lot about him so if anyone could elaborate?


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Ancient Legend]

Strength wise Wilt would hold his own against Shaq, maybe Nate Thurmond as well..

Skill wise, Hakeem owned Shaq. I would guess he wouldn't be able to stop Kareem's sky hook either.

[willds09]

A real prime Sabonis or Wilt would be the best. But if he was called for offensive fouls a lot more could make it competitive.



That's not the pic that's always posted, this is:

http://i40.tinypic.com/292xmra.jpg
damn he look like a steroid alien:biggums:

[RedMax]

If there's any center that can score on Shaq any day any time its Hakeem. Even Shaq admitted it. He couldn't guard Hakeem and he couldn't get in his head because of his composure. Prime Hakeem murdered Orlando Shaq in the Finals and I bet prime Hakeem would have done similar to Lakers Shaq.

As far as guarding Shaq successfully, I really can't come up with anyone. Shaq would murder Kareem and would bully Russell. Wilt didn't have the greatest lower body strength and that would be all Shaq would need to get his way down low.

And please don't mention Mutombo.

[MetsPackers]

Sabonis in his prime.

I'd also love to see how Shaq would fare against flat footed, immovable beast Aaron Gray. LOL...
Dude is as slow as they come, both in the head and with his feet, but he is immovable. Strong as an axe.

LOL @ Aaron Gray. Reminds me of this:

Glen Davis Tries To Eat Aaron Gray (http://nba247365.com/?p=9897)

[eliteballer]

David Robinson was as physically imposing as almost any player in NBA history and Shaq used to throw him around like a ragdoll.

[RedMax]

David Robinson was as physically imposing as almost any player in NBA history and Shaq used to throw him around like a ragdoll.
This.

[Artillery]

David Robinson was as physically imposing as almost any player in NBA history and Shaq used to throw him around like a ragdoll.

That's actually false. Robinson had muscles on top of muscle but he didn't play like a power player(more finesse actually). He was a face up guy that scored a lot in transition. Duncan, for example, was always a better post player than DRob despite looking smaller than him. Howard is definitely more of a power player than DRob was too(though nowhere near as quick, agile, or skilled).

[SwayDizzle]

A real prime Sabonis or Wilt would be the best. But if he was called for offensive fouls a lot more could make it competitive.



That's not the pic that's always posted, this is:

http://i40.tinypic.com/292xmra.jpg
He looks like LeBron's dad

[iDunkOnFatKids]

Yao Ming, he got the height and gained size during the end of his career.

Too bad he couldn't stay healthy.

[Big#50]

Duncan. The greatest defensive player of all time.

[willds09]

Duncan. The greatest defensive player of all time.
:facepalm

[RedMax]

That's actually false. Robinson had muscles on top of muscle but he didn't play like a power player(more finesse actually). He was a face up guy that scored a lot in transition. Duncan, for example, was always a better post player than DRob despite looking smaller than him. Howard is definitely more of a power player than DRob was too(though nowhere near as quick, agile, or skilled).
He was talking about defensively. Not his offensive game.

[elementally morale]

He was talking about defensively. Not his offensive game.

Looking strong and being strong are not the same. Robinson looked stronger than he was.

[LAZERUSS]

If there's any center that can score on Shaq any day any time its Hakeem. Even Shaq admitted it. He couldn't guard Hakeem and he couldn't get in his head because of his composure. Prime Hakeem murdered Orlando Shaq in the Finals and I bet prime Hakeem would have done similar to Lakers Shaq.As far as guarding Shaq successfully, I really can't come up with anyone. Shaq would murder Kareem and would bully Russell. Wilt didn't have the greatest lower body strength and that would be all Shaq would need to get his way down low.

And please don't mention Mutombo.

Interesting...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

Evidently being outscored, outshot, outrebounded, and outassisted by sizeable margins conclusively proves that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in their career matchups.

[Nick Young]

Arvydas Sabonis
Sabonis/Pippen/Wallace triple teams didn't stop shaq, dont see how just sabonis would have been able to

[Xsatyr]

but hakeem is his biggest defensive challenge, especially with his post moves and all

Yeah, I misread the thread title.

[brantonli]

Interesting...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

Evidently being outscored, outshot, outrebounded, and outassisted by sizeable margins conclusively proves that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in their career matchups.

Over half of those matchups occurred when Hakeem was 35/36.

[LAZERUSS]

Over half of those matchups occurred when Hakeem was 35/36.

And many of them are when Shaq was between 20-22 as well. And if you take a close look at even those, Shaq more than held hiw own against a prime Hakeem.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wilt on the Lakers. The original "sherman tank".

Despite clearly being out of his prime, he was still a fantastic defender. Checkout some of those H2H games-logs against Kareem. :eek:

[La Frescobaldi]

depends on which rules they use.

[RedMax]

Interesting...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

Evidently being outscored, outshot, outrebounded, and outassisted by sizeable margins conclusively proves that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in their career matchups.
Most of those matchups were late in Hakeem's career. Anything after 97 or 98 is past prime Hakeem. Besides, I didn't say Hakeem could guard Shaq if you actually took the time to read and understand my post. I said Hakeem could score on Shaq any day any time, more than any center in NBA history. The rest of my post points out that no one could really guard Shaq. I don't see what you're trying to prove.

[jzek]

Atlanta Hawk Mutombo

[jongib369]

depends on which rules they use.
elaborate?

[veilside23]

ben wallace maybe ?

no mention of ewing ?

i would put rodman on shack because rodman can get inside your head and ruin your game ... sure you will be able to put up points but rodman is a MOFO.

LoL at Drob being strong ...

I dont know if we will see another center like Shaq... maybe not anymore because post up bigs are extinct .. bigs can just dunk or shoot jumpshot or fall inlove with the 3 :D ...

[La Frescobaldi]

elaborate?

With the current rules and a mediocre passing perimeter team, nobody could keep O'Neal under 40ppg.

[LAZERUSS]

The title of this topic is somewhat deceptive. What player on the offensive end, would test Shaq's defense the most.

Dave Cowens comes to mind. So does Bob McAdoo. Kareem would give any center problems on the offensive end. A prime scoring Chamberlain, with his varied post moves, 15+ ft range, exceptional quickness, 7-8 wingspan, 40+ inch vertical, and enormous strength would give Shaq all he could handle.

[LAZERUSS]

Most of those matchups were late in Hakeem's career. Anything after 97 or 98 is past prime Hakeem. Besides, I didn't say Hakeem could guard Shaq if you actually took the time to read and understand my post. I said Hakeem could score on Shaq any day any time, more than any center in NBA history. The rest of my post points out that no one could really guard Shaq. I don't see what you're trying to prove.

Ok, in the 92-93 and 93-94 seasons, covering four h2h games, a 30-31 year old Hakeem averaged 26 ppg on .469 shooting against a 20-21 year old Shaq.

In the 94-95 and 95-96 regular season h2h's, again, covering four games, Hakeem averaged 27.3 ppg on .444 shooting against Shaq.

Sorry, but I don't see a prime Hakeem just scoring at will against even a young Shaq.


As for the 94-95 Finals, I found this post here, but taken from another forum, and by a poster named Colts18. Here again, this is not my breakdown, although I recall much of that series in much the same fashion...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296382&page=4



I decided to rewatch the 1995 finals and chart each possession to see to how effective Shaq and Hakeem were on the court. A special shout out to Jordanbulls for providing the video of this series


Total:
Hakeem: 253 touches, 140 doubles (55.3%)
Shaq: 221 touches, 146 doubles (66.1%)

Here are their stats when they were guarded by each other:
Shaq 32-57 (56.1 FG%), 6-8 FT, 67.3 double teamed%, .578 TS%, 17 assists, 1 O-reb allowed to Hakeem
Hakeem: 31-75 (41.3 FG%), 9-13 FT, 60.2 double teamed%, .446 TS%, 8 assists, 3 O-reb allowed to Shaq

Shaq blocked 2 Hakeem shots, Hakeem blocked 0 Shaq shots. Hakeem did make a 3P on Shaq. Hakeem guarded Shaq on 73.3% of the touches he had, while Shaq guarded Hakeem on 69.6% of his touches. Hakeem got a lot more fastbreak touches than Shaq so in the halfcourt, they guarded each other about even.

When they weren't being guarded by each other, Shaq was being guarded by Charles Jones and Hakeem by Horace Grant.

Shaq vs Jones: 7-11 FG (63.6 FG%), 35 doubles in 52 touches (67.3%), 2 assists
Hakeem vs Grant: 13-24 (54.2 FG%), 33 double teams in 58 touches (56.9%), 6 assists

Jump shots:
Hakeem: 27-62 (43.5%)
Shaq: 2-7 (28.6%)

The vast majority of Shaq's shots were close range hooks.

Dunks:
Hakeem: 1 dunk (vs grant)
Shaq: 9 dunks (2 of them were in Hakeem's face)

Fouls drawn on offense:
Shaq: 37 (17 on Hakeem)
Hakeem: 21 (9 on Shaq)

Hakeem did draw 4 Shaq charges.

Shaq was called for 5 travels, Hakeem 2.

Plus/Minus (Houston outscored Orlando by 28 points total):
On court:
Shaq: -12 in 180 minutes
Hakeem: +17 in 179 minutes

Off court:
Shaq: -16 in 16:37 of action (Houston scored 133 points per 48 in the minutes Shaq missed)
Hakeem: +11 in 17:11 of action (134 points per 48 in the minutes he was off the court)

Interestingly enough, in 2 of the games, the Magic outscored the Rockets when Shaq was on the court. The magic were -8 in about 9 minutes of action without Shaq in game (lost by just 2 points). In game 3, they were -4 in the minutes Shaq missed in a game where they lost by 3 points. In game 1, the Rockets outscored the magic by 9 in the minutes Hakeem missed, but they were outscored by a combined 4 points in games 3 and 4 without Hakeem.

Observations:
-Orlando was for some reason really committed to doubling Hakeem in game 1. They were throwing a lot of hard doubles. Hakeem had 5 assists in that game, all of them 3 pointers, 4 came off of doubles (one was a triple team). I'm guessing it was a response to Hakeem's series vs Robinson. For the rest of the series, Orlando didn't double Hakeem as much and they threw softer doubles.

-Hakeem made like 5 or 6 baskets in transition to Shaq's 1 or so. So while Shaq didn't get credit for giving up those buckets since he didn't guard, a few of those times Shaq was slow in transition. Shaq got about 3 or shots

-One of the commentators compared Horry to Scottie Pippen and Walton took the comment seriously. They are vastly different players IMO

-I'm not sure why Penny wasn't more aggressive. Kenny Smith couldn't guard him at all. When Penny did drive to the basket, he made a few shots over Hakeem.

-Drexler was the man in this series. He really wanted to get his first title badly. For some reason, people rarely talk about him despite him getting more WS than Hakeem in that playoff run

-It's fashionable these days to **** on Hakeem's cast in 94, but this cast was much better than that one. The guards outplayed Orlando's guards. Horry played really well. The 3P shooters benefited a lot from the shortened 3P line.

-Contrary to popular belief, handchecking wasn't allowed in 95. The refs called like 2 handchecking fouls in this series

-I'm so thankful the NBA got rid of the illegal defense. The refs called like 5 of them in each game. It destroyed the flow of the game and limited the ways you could double team a player.


As he said...make of it what you will...


Furthermore, in their 20 regular season h2h's, Hakeem shot over 50% in just five of them. And how about their eight post-season h2h's? Three...and two of those were right at 50%.

[julizaver]

Wilt Chamberlain.

Shaq played good in the 95 Finals against Hakeem. It is popular belief that Hakeem killed him, BUT the reality was something else. The Orlando team lacked the experience of Houston team. '95 Magics were young and talented team at the time.

[LAZERUSS]

hakeem was too much for shaq tho

Hakeem's teammates were too much for Shaq's. They outshot Shaq's teammates by huge margins from both the field, and the arc, and they outscored them by 50 points from the FT line. Given the fact that Houston won three very close games in that series, those FTs made were the difference.

Hakeem outscored Shaq in that series, by about 5 ppg (33 to 28 ppg), but took 10 more FGA per game to do it. Shaq outshot Hakeem by a staggering .595 to .483 margin. And in the process, he outrebounded Hakeem, outscored him from the FT line, outblocked him, and outassisted him (and if his teammates hadn't missed so many open looks, that disparity would have been much greater.)

And one more time...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=onealsh01


Take a look at all 28 h2h games (20 regular seaon, and 8 post-season),ad you tell me who the more dominant player was. And, as I noted previously, even a prime Hakeem, going up against a 20-23 year old Shaq, struggled.

[LAZERUSS]

And I get so tired of the Hakeem fans pointing to the four game '95 Finals, as some kind of example that Olajuwon was the greater player. Shaq was 22 at the time, while Hakeem was supposedly in his prime, at age 32. Granted, O'Neal was near his athletic peak in '95, but he became an overpowering force shortly thereafter. And, of course, in their '99 playoff series, Shaq just destroyed a 36 year old Hakeem. Say what you want about Hakeem being past his prime at age 36, why don't the Olajuwon fans acknowledge that Shaq was not in his prime in '95, either?

[ShaqAttack3234]

And I get so tired of the Hakeem fans pointing to the four game '95 Finals, as some kind of example that Olajuwon was the greater player. Shaq was 22 at the time, while Hakeem was supposedly in his prime, at age 32. Granted, O'Neal was near his athletic peak in '95, but he became an overpowering force shortly thereafter. And, of course, in their '99 playoff series, Shaq just destroyed a 36 year old Hakeem. Say what you want about Hakeem being past his prime at age 36, why don't the Olajuwon fans acknowledge that Shaq was not in his prime in '95, either?

I thought you were jlauber before this post, and now I really think you're jlauber. I'm not positive, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you make the same arguments he did.

[LAZERUSS]

shaq was still amazing in 95 tho

He was amazing immediately in his NBA career. In some respects, he was probably more skilled, and certainly more athletic, early in his career, than by the middle of it. But, from the late 90's to the early 00's, he was just so phyically overpowering, that one-on-one, he was nearly unstoppable (and in some cases, such as his series against Mutombo, it was almost criminal.)

Look, a prime Hakeem was a great player. He was a more rounded player than O'Neal, as well. But he was never as dominant, and even at his peak, and going up against a young Shaq, I wouldn't concede that he outplayed Shaq. But even if were to do so, there is absolutely no shred of evidence that exists that Hakeem just dominated Shaq in that series.

And once again, that was not a prime Shaq, either. IMHO, a peak Shaq was a considerably greater player than a peak Hakeem. And even over the course of their long careers, Hakeem's resume pales in comparison to Shaq's.

[LAZERUSS]

As for the OP, once again, players like Cowens, McAdoo, Kareem, and Chamberlain would have given Shaq all he could handle defensively.

But, what about at the other end of the floor? Of those four, only Wilt could have stood toe-to-toe with Shaq. And I'm reasonably positive that Shaq would have done his share of damage against him, as well. In fact, given the fact that Wilt was generally a "gentle giant" (and, given the nature of the rules that were enacted which were aimed strictly at him, I'm sure the NBA would not have allowed him tor have been anything more), it would have been interesting to see how he would have responded against an equally imposing physical force.

[LAZERUSS]

As a sidenote, am I among the few here who are perplexed by how Shaq's career is now perceived? In the early 00's, most all the "experts" were calling him one of the most dominant players in the history of the game. Now, in the last couple of years, his role in the three-peat has somehow been diminished by the Kobe fans. Not only that, but his resume is largely overlooked in these "all-time" discussions. True, he only one MVP, but the truth was, he was regarded as the best player in the game for a span of at least five seasons. He won four rings, and he was certainly the key figure in three of them. And his performances in the "three-peat" Finals were quite possibly the three greatest ever played.

[VeeCee15]

Lets be serious. No one can defend SHAQ...there would not be much of a difference between Aaron Gray defending Shaq or Wilt defending Shaq. Obviously Wilt would be better but the difference is negligable.

SHAQ can dominate 2 players defending him (Duncan AND DROB)...think about it.

[DatAsh]

I thought you were jlauber before this post, and now I really think you're jlauber. I'm not positive, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you make the same arguments he did.

He is.

[La Frescobaldi]

As for the OP, once again, players like Cowens, McAdoo, Kareem, and Chamberlain would have given Shaq all he could handle defensively.

But, what about at the other end of the floor? Of those four, only Wilt could have stood toe-to-toe with Shaq. And I'm reasonably positive that Shaq would have done his share of damage against him, as well. In fact, given the fact that Wilt was generally a "gentle giant" (and, given the nature of the rules that were enacted which were aimed strictly at him, I'm sure the NBA would not have allowed him tor have been anything more), it would have been interesting to see how he would have responded against an equally imposing physical force.

But none of those guys played Shaq's game. They were all deeply skilled in offense and avoided the full contact offense that was Shaq's claim to fame.

Dave Cowens would not have lost his fierce high tempo mid-range game just because Shaq was defending him. He shot over far greater defensive Centers than O'Neal ever was.

[LAZERUSS]

But none of those guys played Shaq's game. They were all deeply skilled in offense and avoided the full contact offense that was Shaq's claim to fame.

Dave Cowens would not have lost his fierce high tempo mid-range game just because Shaq was defending him. He shot over far greater defensive Centers than O'Neal ever was.

You are echoing my point. Cowens and McAdoo could shoot lights out from 18-20 ft. And I doubt Shaq could contain either KAJ's, or Wilt's, offensive skills.

I was just commenting that, at the other end of the floor, of that group, only Wilt would be able to physically match up with Shaq, and even then, I suspect Shaq would still get his share. And the only other center that I think might have given Shaq a physical battle, would have been Gilmore.

Now, as you indicated in an earlier post, if Shaq would have played in the rules of the 60's, where a charge was a charge, and a travel was a travel, I suspect that his offense would have suffered some. Still, as great an athlete as Shaq was, he would have adapted.

But, once again, players like Reed, Lanier, KAJ, Bellamy, Lucas (when he played center), Cowens, and McAdoo, would have given him fits with their ofensive skills and range.

[JMT]

Whichever one that had enough respect from the refs that he would have been rewarded for taking the charge when Shaq used his "move" (read: lowering your shoulder to go through a defensive players chest).

[secund2nun]

No one could stop or even slow Shaq down 1 on 1 on defense. He is the NBA's version of the Juggernaut.

Hakeem is arguably the best defensive player of all time and in his prime a young 22 year old Shaq tore up his vaunted defense.