A Comparison of Kobe and LeBron's Careers Without Superstar Help

[Deuce Bigalow]

I really don't get the weak era argument...how can you possibly determine whether a particular era is weak...based on some preconceived notion of how many superstars are playing? You could easily argue that the nba is the deepest it's ever been since the league got 20+ teams as there are so many international players and the population has gone up. You could also argue that any modern player's stats are deflated beacuse of the low pace in the league (not that this affect rings just accumulators).

If you want to argue anyone besides kaj and mj over lebron after 2 rings more, go look at their advanced stats...win shares, PER, playoff win shares, playoff PER etc. and imagine 2 more good years for lebron. Kobe is ridiculous...he's just about ahead of Lebron at the moment, but you could easily argue the other way. Just for your info...Kobe has never led the league OR the playoffs in any of the following: PER, WS, WS/48, pm, net pm, adj pm, even if you impose quite strict minimum limits on minutes played, shots taken etc. Kobe has rings over lebron, but if (!) he gets 2 more there isn't much of an argument really.
Kobe led the NBA in WS during the 2001 Playoffs.

And if we go by real stats - Kobe led the NBA in scoring twice in the regular season, and three times in the Playoffs. Led the NBA in total points 4 times in the regular season and 4 times in the Playoffs.

[Element]

Pau/Odom are superstars now? Lol

Let me see...imagine LeBron would've had to go up against prime Nash's Suns in 06/07 playoffs. He'd most likely lose in 5. It took kobe to go Magic Johnson, then Michael Jordan for the Lakers to lose in 7 at his absolute peak. LeBron would've done better? Hell no.

And now, imagine Kobe could've feasted on the JJ Hawks, JV Wizards, Old Pistons etc etc. He'd probably make the Finals in 07 and the conference finals in 06, even with that crap cast.

[PickernRoller]

What on earth are you talking about?


This is my exact problem with how stupid people are. Who cares what Odom would do as the franchise guy. He's playing 3rd option on a team...that is what we care about. Not to mention...Odom as the franchise guy on a bad team in Toronto playing 35 plus minutes and taking more shots etc....would have roughly been a 18/11/5 type player. As good as Bosh in that role? No, but you people are nuts to not understand what Odom could do.

Lol at thinking your third option argument has any relevance at all. It doesn't. That's why you're the moron you're. You just don't bring the potential (ceiling of play) of a player down by the role they perform on court. Bosh is a franchise player period - he doesn't magically decline to third option status cause that's his role in the Heat. Plus, Bosh at his role, even with similar stats, brings significantly more to the table than Odom ever did. Keep talking BS, ignoring points, creating hypothetical arguments and spewing filth, you're still a moron. Your point is of no relevance at all in equating him and his play to that of Odom.

Wade = Pau, KG = Kareem, Terry = Robinson. I am pretty sure we can agree on this NO?

Like I said, Keep on and never give up.

[Round Mound]

Why Make More Lebron vs Kobe Threads? :confusedshrug:

Everyone else other than Kobe Tards Know Lebron is a Better Total Player!

[DMAVS41]

Lol at thinking your third option argument has any relevance at all. It doesn't. That's why you're the moron you're. You just don't bring the potential (ceiling of play) of a player down by the role they perform on court. Bosh is a franchise player period - he doesn't magically decline to third option status cause that's his role in the Heat. Plus, Bosh at his role, even with similar stats, brings significantly more to the table than Odom ever did. Keep talking BS, ignoring points, creating hypothetical arguments and spewing filth, you're still a moron. Your point is of no relevance at all in equating him and his play to that of Odom.

Wade = Pau, KG = Kareem, Terry = Robinson. I am pretty sure we can agree on this NO?

Like I said, Keep on and never give up.

It matters what the players actually do on the court. Last year in the playoffs. Bosh's impact was nothing more than Odom's in LA. Absolutely nothing more. Similar stats...and Bosh does very little else of note outside of stats to begin with.

It's not about brining a player down. It's about evaluating what they actually contribute...not what they are capable of. We don't have to play some stupid hypothetical you moron. We saw what happened. And we saw a player be the third option while averaging 14/8/1 and do nothing else of note.

So no, what said player has previously done does not mean shit when we can talk about what actually happened.

Now, it would be right to say that Bosh has the potential to be a better player in his role than Odom for all the given reasons we've talked about. But that hasn't happened yet...and it certainly didn't happen in the playoffs last year (uhhhh...what we were talking about)

Here's what happened. Bosh averaged 14/8/1...Odom averaged 11/9/2. Odom is the better and more versatile defender...and is a better playmaker. I think any objectivity leads to the conclusion that they had a very similar impact on the teams in their roles. Bosh's ceiling has nothing to do with it...it's about what he actually did. And we know what he did...because it happened.

****ing morons on here are so stupid. They think a player should be judged on his potential when we are talking about something that already ****ing happened.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's why you're the moron you're.

Sorry, I had to LOL at this. :oldlol:

[PickernRoller]

It matters what the players actually do on the court. Last year in the playoffs. Bosh's impact was nothing more than Odom's in LA. Absolutely nothing more. Similar stats...and Bosh does very little else of note outside of stats to begin with.

It's not about brining a player down. It's about evaluating what they actually contribute...not what they are capable of. We don't have to play some stupid hypothetical you moron. We saw what happened. And we saw a player be the third option while averaging 14/8/1 and do nothing else of note.

So no, what said player has previously done does not mean shit when we can talk about what actually happened.

Now, it would be right to say that Bosh has the potential to be a better player in his role than Odom for all the given reasons we've talked about. But that hasn't happened yet...and it certainly didn't happen in the playoffs last year (uhhhh...what we were talking about)

Here's what happened. Bosh averaged 14/8/1...Odom averaged 11/9/2. Odom is the better and more versatile defender...and is a better playmaker. I think any objectivity leads to the conclusion that they had a very similar impact on the teams in their roles. Bosh's ceiling has nothing to do with it...it's about what he actually did. And we know what he did...because it happened.

****ing morons on here are so stupid. They think a player should be judged on his potential when we are talking about something that already ****ing happened.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Not gonna waste more of my time with you. I said what I had to say. There is a reason I said keep on.....you'll bury this thread to 40 pages if it needs to .....blabbing about the same non-sense. You're still a moron. Your point still irrelevant and the comparison as pathetic as ever. You trying to convince ISH? lol

This is just a bit contradictory don't you think?

"Odom is the better and more versatile defender...and is a better playmaker."

"Bosh's ceiling has nothing to do with it." meaning do not take into consideration anything that Bosh can do/brings......all in the same sentence and context -ohhhh really?

He's that much better yet he can't be a franchise player like Bosh. Give me a second to process this one.....

I am not going to even argue about your other claims - they are just too ridiculous. Like I said - done with you. On the other thread you let me know of my quotes too.......if you can miraculously pull shit out of your @ss.

Tripping all over yourself. Keep on.

[longtime lurker]

It matters what the players actually do on the court. Last year in the playoffs. Bosh's impact was nothing more than Odom's in LA. Absolutely nothing more. Similar stats...and Bosh does very little else of note outside of stats to begin with.

It's not about brining a player down. It's about evaluating what they actually contribute...not what they are capable of. We don't have to play some stupid hypothetical you moron. We saw what happened. And we saw a player be the third option while averaging 14/8/1 and do nothing else of note.

So no, what said player has previously done does not mean shit when we can talk about what actually happened.

Now, it would be right to say that Bosh has the potential to be a better player in his role than Odom for all the given reasons we've talked about. But that hasn't happened yet...and it certainly didn't happen in the playoffs last year (uhhhh...what we were talking about)

Here's what happened. Bosh averaged 14/8/1...Odom averaged 11/9/2. Odom is the better and more versatile defender...and is a better playmaker. I think any objectivity leads to the conclusion that they had a very similar impact on the teams in their roles. Bosh's ceiling has nothing to do with it...it's about what he actually did. And we know what he did...because it happened.

****ing morons on here are so stupid. They think a player should be judged on his potential when we are talking about something that already ****ing happened.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

:wtf: :facepalm