Historically, how good is Tony Parker?

[Clifton]

So, Tony Parker is pretty damn good.

Is he a HOFer? First ballot? Top ten all time PG? Better than Iverson or not? Cousy? Tim Hardaway? Penny Hardaway? What players do you think he's most like?

I don't know, myself. It's hard to say. He's a system player, but he's such a great one. He's the best layup shooter I've ever seen. I haven't seen him miss a midrange jumpshot off a pick since 2006. He's the best player on a perennial contender and has been for years. Yet I have a tough time saying he's even top ten right now.

Any thoughts?

[fpliii]

So, Tony Parker is pretty damn good.

Is he a HOFer? First ballot? Top ten all time PG? Better than Iverson or not? Cousy? Tim Hardaway? Penny Hardaway? What players do you think he's most like?

I don't know, myself. It's hard to say. He's a system player, but he's such a great one. He's the best layup shooter I've ever seen. I haven't seen him miss a midrange jumpshot off a pick since 2006. He's the best player on a perennial contender and has been for years. Yet I have a tough time saying he's even top ten right now.

Any thoughts?

Not sure that I agree with that.

He has the GOAT floater though, incredible stuff.

[Clifton]

Not sure that I agree with that.

He has the GOAT floater though, incredible stuff.
I'm not sure I agree with it either. Up until a few months ago I wouldn't have said it. I'm also not sure whether "best player on the Spurs" is even a meaningful honor. They're a collective, and Duncan is undoubtedly the foundation of that if any player is. But the offense really is Tony Parker's. They lean on him quite heavily. Ginobili is sunsetting, Duncan doesn't do any more than any given role player most nights, and otherwise all they have is set shooters and decent post players.

[Lebron23]

He's a first ballot hall of famer. He has a solid international and NBA Resume. TP9 is a top 2 PG this season.

[fpliii]

I'm not sure I agree with it either. Up until a few months ago I wouldn't have said it. I'm also not sure whether "best player on the Spurs" is even a meaningful honor. They're a collective, and Duncan is undoubtedly the foundation of that if any player is. But the offense really is Tony Parker's. They lean on him quite heavily. Ginobili is sunsetting, Duncan doesn't do any more than any given role player most nights, and otherwise all they have is set shooters and decent post players.

Agreed.

[OldSkoolball#52]

I agree he's a tough dude to judge in terms of all time context.

His game actually reminds me of Isiah Thomas.

It's hard to say how he'd be perceived outside the context of the Spurs system and success.

Honestly tho, the way he's played the last couple years to me is comparable to what dwayne wade was for most of his career. he could dominate individually in a pretty efficient way, but at the end of the day without a quality team around him how far can he actually go with a team?

people sort of forget that between the shaq years and the big 3 years, wade's heat really werne't much of a factor, despite how great wade was. to me, that's what you'd get with Tony Parker in a different situation.

[AussieG]

He's another one of those players where his stats aren't superstar level.. but he just knows how to win games.

[Bandito]

He's like Gasol, a great player at what he does, but not a top 10 kind of player.

[OldSkoolball#52]

I'm also not sure whether "best player on the Spurs" is even a meaningful honor.


Exactly. Why can't the difference between Duncan and Parker be just considered negligible? People always have to figure out "who's 1 and who's 2" in order to figure out how to dole out credit.

Why don't you just look at a guy's game and just make your points based on that?

everyone falls back on these cliches about "who is the man, how many rings he has, best player on a contender, second option, batman and robin" etc.

Mark of a simple mind.

[9512]

He is a player with great talent and his personality and attitude is not of a diva or prima donna.

His style is or looks very conventional (minus his trade mark tear drop shot).

He is or was really quick. He's a great ball handler and has a style that is controlled and disciplined and still looks somewhat compelling as a baller.

He always reminded of Kevin Johnson. A super quick guard who drives and who became a good to great jump shooter.

Somehow I think he falls under the radar when it comes to elite player or PG discussions.

I don't know about future accolades like HOF or whatever. But damn once he will retire he may fade as an after thought because he wasn't as talked about today. Too many people talking and still talking about controversial players like AI or Marbury (for being crazy with no team success despite having all the skill set of a great PG).

I can imagine when he could do if he had more freedom on a team like OKC or Chicago that let RWB or D Rose run loose.

[Clifton]

He has the GOAT floater though, incredible stuff.
It truly amazes me how good he is in the paint. Not even point-blank, but toward the outside of the paint too. I look at this guy, who is shorter than I am, scoring with ease over the best defensive players in the world, doing more than I can do against rec league competition.

[Clifton]

people sort of forget that between the shaq years and the big 3 years, wade's heat really werne't much of a factor, despite how great wade was. to me, that's what you'd get with Tony Parker in a different situation.
How many years has he had like that though? I remember his rookie year well. He overachieved with a young group that had no size. Took the Pacers, who were a 60 win team, to 6.

I don't think I've seen Parker take over like Wade did in the Finals against the Mavs. To me, Wade is closer to Lebron than to Parker.

--

I'll say one thing.... I don't know where Parker "ranks"... but regardless of where that is I can tell you with certainty that there are at least a dozen guys "ranked" higher who I would take Parker over.

Maybe even at his own position. Every time I watch him I just beam with pride. He's the rare example of a player who couldn't have turned out better than he did. Totally maximized his potential.

[unbreakable]

Duncan doesn't do any more than any given role player most nights, and otherwise all they have is set shooters and decent post players.


LMAO. stop posting. Duncan is first team all nba this year, no doubt about it.

Tony , Tim and Manu are first ballot HOFers. :bowdown:

[ShaqAttack3234]

He's like Gasol, a great player at what he does, but not a top 10 kind of player.

You mean Marc or Pau? Because Pau was a top 10 caliber player 2-3 seasons and Parker has been the last couple of seasons.

[BoutPractice]

Yeah, Parker was definitely top 10 in the league at least twice in his career.

He's clearly a HoFer based on his resume. He's the classic "2nd/3rd option on a multiple championship team who proved he could also be the 1st". Those tend to get into the HoF.

[andremiller07]

Has there even been a player roughly 6 foot be able to make layups/circus shots/floaters like Parker has season in season out on a high % for as long as he has? His finishing ability always blows me away.

[TheBigVeto]

Top 20 of all time.
Will go into the HoF.

[Dbrog]

How was Parker ever a top 10 player in the league for 2-3 seasons? Top 10 PGs, yes, definitely. Player though? Come on man....he's more like on Joe Johnson's level (which is still really good!).

[fefe]

I also think Pau Gasol is a good comparison in the aspect of all-time ranking and HOF probablility.

Both have multiple rings, both have had very nice statistical averages for their careers, but most of the time they were second options.
Gasol has more international achievements, but Parker has his finals MVP to boot.

I think they are about the same level on all-time rankings.

If we need to find a PG to compare with, maybe Isiah Thomas level, but it's very tough to say it.

[Dbrog]

Now his career is being compared to Pau? Gasol gets so disrespected on this board :facepalm . He's led the Spanish team to much better things in Europe than Tony failing every year with France. In the NBA, Pau was a franchise player for many years and was always just short of the Sheed/Dirk/KG/Duncan club. Can't say any of that about Tony. What did he do? Have a good series against a horribly outmatched and outcoached Cavs squad with a super young LeBron? Duncan was easily their best player that entire playoffs (yes, including the Cavs series). Hell, Ginobli has a better career than Tony. At least he won a few games in that 2005 series with the pistons.

[unbreakable]

Now his career is being compared to Pau? Gasol gets so disrespected on this board :facepalm . He's led the Spanish team to much better things in Europe than Tony failing every year with France. In the NBA, Pau was a franchise player for many years and was always just short of the Sheed/Dirk/KG/Duncan club. Can't say any of that about Tony. What did he do? Have a good series against a horribly outmatched and outcoached Cavs squad with a super young LeBron? Duncan was easily their best player that entire playoffs (yes, including the Cavs series). Hell, Ginobli has a better career than Tony. At least he won a few games in that 2005 series with the pistons.


Pau plays with many other NBA stars.. the French team only has Tony. I love Pau but historically he is not ranked higher than Tony Parker who is a multiple champion, clutch, and Finals MVP.

[HarryCallahan]

How was Parker ever a top 10 player in the league for 2-3 seasons? Top 10 PGs, yes, definitely. Player though? Come on man....he's more like on Joe Johnson's level (which is still really good!).

Parker has been a top5 player the last two seasons.

JJohnson is an inefficient chucker who hasn't done anything beside lose in the first round, his inefficient low IQ game is a major reason why the Hawks were so mediocre for so long.

SMH at "system player" shooting over 50% isn't because of the system it's because he trains hard, plays hard, looks to set-up his teammates and doesn't take bad shots.

[Crafty]

HOF. One of the best internation players ever. Underrated since he's in the league

[ihatetimthomas]

It truly amazes me how good he is in the paint. Not even point-blank, but toward the outside of the paint too. I look at this guy, who is shorter than I am, scoring with ease over the best defensive players in the world, doing more than I can do against rec league competition.

He led the league in points in the paint a few years back. Its incerdible a pg led the league in points in the paint. Thats over the best bigmen who make a living in the paint

[Qwertyazerty]

Pau plays with many other NBA stars.. the French team only has Tony. I love Pau but historically he is not ranked higher than Tony Parker who is a multiple champion, clutch, and Finals MVP.

The French team has a roster full of NBA players some of them like Noah or Batum very talented. It is true though that the combo Pau/Navarro has been very dominant in FIBA competition.

Parker is amazing, excellent, ultra efficient and beautiful to watch. HoFer IMHO.

[sportjames23]

I agree he's a tough dude to judge in terms of all time context.

His game actually reminds me of Isiah Thomas.
It's hard to say how he'd be perceived outside the context of the Spurs system and success.

Honestly tho, the way he's played the last couple years to me is comparable to what dwayne wade was for most of his career. he could dominate individually in a pretty efficient way, but at the end of the day without a quality team around him how far can he actually go with a team?

people sort of forget that between the shaq years and the big 3 years, wade's heat really werne't much of a factor, despite how great wade was. to me, that's what you'd get with Tony Parker in a different situation.


I'm not seeing the resemblance to Isaiah's game at all.

But, I do think TP is a future HOFer. I don't think he'll be a first ballot HOFer, though.

[Straight_Ballin]

It truly amazes me how good he is in the paint. Not even point-blank, but toward the outside of the paint too. I look at this guy, who is shorter than I am, scoring with ease over the best defensive players in the world, doing more than I can do against rec league competition.

Stop posting and work on your floater!

[Alan Ogg]

Used to be controversial to call him a HOFer, but now it's pretty much universally accepted. He's not even close to done either.

[Nick Young]

One of the best PGs of all time, he's not a conventional PG and played with Duncan his whole life so doesn't get the credit he deserves even though the Spurs keep on ticking when Duncan and Manu go out do to Parker stepping up his game every time.

Best scoring point guard of all time.

Top 5 PG of all time.


When he retires he will get the credit he deserves hopefully.

People rating Rondo and Deron over him are fools. Considering the fact Parker has 3 rings and a Finals MVP and CP3 hasn't even been to the finals, Parker is IMO better then CP3 as well.


His teardrop is the best shot in basketball, and now that he has a solid jumper he is virtually unguardable and his decision making is elite level.


People don't ever say this but Tony Parker is an all time great level PG. All anyone ever wants to do is discredit him. Just like they always discredit San Antonio as playing boring basketball, they discredit Tony Parker as boring even though to me he is one of the most exciting players in the league along with Manu for the past decade.

[madmax]

dude is a straight up baller, that's for sure...no other PG in NBA history has his finishing ability in and near the paint most probably. Along with CP3 he's the best PG in the game hands down and has been very consistent with his level of play for several years now. He doesn't choke, falter or whine - he just does his job with a clockwork precision and persistance. French can be proud of raising a player of such caliber for sure:applause:

[Sakkreth]

Finally ish gives some props for him, good time to wake up.

[RichieW]

Everyone is rewriting history. This has been Tonys team for 2 years. That's it.

It was still built around Timmy when the Spurs got swept by the Suns. Then we moved to a higher tempo and Manu was the main guy in 10/11 (he started 79 games). Then Manu got hurt and went back to the bench in the lockout season and Tony took over.

If the Spurs win it and Tony gets the Finals MVP, he must surely move into the discussion for Top 25 player. 4x titles, 2x finals MVP is a strong resume.

[Euroleague]

He has the GOAT floater though, incredible stuff.

Navarro says hi.

[Euroleague]

Pau plays with many other NBA stars.. the French team only has Tony. I love Pau but historically he is not ranked higher than Tony Parker who is a multiple champion, clutch, and Finals MVP.

France has always had more NBA players than Spain. I'm not sure what you are talking about............

[Nick Young]

Navarro says hi.
Parker's is better, he does it against taller and more athletic competition, sometimes in ACB league JCN is going up against 6'7" 37 year old bald lithuanian centers and power forwards defending the paint:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Euroleague]

Parker's is better, he does it against taller and more athletic competition, sometimes in ACB league JCN is going up against 6'7" 37 year old bald lithuanian centers and power forwards defending the paint:roll: :roll: :roll:

Juan Carlos Navarro has the best floater in the history of world basketball. Anyone that does not know that has a very limited general basketball knowledge.

Parker = best floater in the current NBA

Navarro = best floater of all time in the world

[Nero Tulip]

Navarro is the precursor, but his floater isn't necessarily better. Faster, definitely, but not as consistent IMO.

Besides he does it on one leg, which means you have to commit to it, and it's easier to see it coming; Parker can fake his floater and just stop and do an up-and-under.

I'd love to see the stats though. Is there any way to get this kind of number?

[Foster5k]

Parker > some fool playing versus inferior competition in Europe(Navarro)

[Qwertyazerty]

Parker's is better, he does it against taller and more athletic competition, sometimes in ACB league JCN is going up against 6'7" 37 year old bald lithuanian centers and power forwards defending the paint:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25GVX3vQTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvzISlKZZA

At its best, Navarro's floater was almost impossible to stop. Parker is better in many other areas, but floaters and 3pt shooting are Navarro's best weapons.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Amazingly, astoundingly, Tony Parker doesn't turn 31 until next month. He's already played 12 seasons and 872 regular-season games, as well as 153 playoff games and counting. He just submitted his best all-around season — 20.3 points, 7.6 assists, 52 percent shooting, 23.0 PER and .206 win share/per 48 (highest of his career) — and has shown ZERO signs of slipping.

So where does this go? Let's say he plays five more years at this level, or something close: something like 350 regular-season games and 50 playoff games, his usual 18-20 a game with 50 percent shooting, a couple more playoff runs, and all the other Parkerish stuff he does (while avoiding any major injuries). By the end of the 2016-17 season, Parker might have 16 seasons banked, as well as three rings (at least), a Finals MVP (in 2007), 1,200-plus regular-season games (only 33 players have done it), 200-plus playoff games (only six players have done it),10 20,000-plus points (only 42 players have done it) and 7,500-plus assists (only 10 players have done it). By the way …

• Oscar Robertson and Gary Payton are the only members of the 20K/7K Club for career points and assists. That's it. Just Oscar and GP.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9203345/nba-trade-value-part-2

Two things will dictate the direction of his career, imo:
1) If these last two seasons are his peak or prime. I don't think he can play better, although I never expected him to become this good.
2) How long Pop coaches and how Parker plays after he retires (which I expect to happen before Parker does).

To those saying he hasn't been a top 10 player lately... You can go ahead and stop posting about basketball. He's been one of the top 2-4 candidates for MVP the last two seasons.

[Nero Tulip]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25GVX3vQTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvzISlKZZA

At its best, Navarro's floater was almost impossible to stop. Parker is better in many other areas, but floaters and 3pt shooting are Navarro's best weapons.

Anyone can shoot unstoppable shots. The thing that matters the most is how consistent you are. It's not something you can show with a highlight video.

[retaxis]

This guy is incredible. Haven't seen anyone utilize a pick and roll like he does. Nash was good but Nash doesn't have the critical side step and agility which Parker does however Nash had that great 3 point shooting off the dribble which made up for it. If I draft a team I draft parker as my boy because he doesn't call 8 pick and rolls in one play:oldlol:

[Sakkreth]

Parker's is better, he does it against taller and more athletic competition, sometimes in ACB league JCN is going up against 6'7" 37 year old bald lithuanian centers and power forwards defending the paint:roll: :roll: :roll:

Player you described doesn't exist.

[Kblaze8855]

Id say if you dropped him into 1990 with Magic, Isiah, Timmy, KJ, Stockton, Price, Porter, and Harper you could argue hes the 7th or 8th best point....id say closer to 5th. He would be a 25ppg scorer at the time.

Then you add in the likes of Oscar, Payton, Kidd, Nash, Tiny, Frazier, Cousy and so on?

Then Paul, Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Deron and the modern guys?


Im seeing no less than 11 one could argue goes over him and 16 you could argue were better players.

That said I think hes held back numbers wise by the system hes in. Drop him in place of some of the other all time elite points he would do numbers.

Tony in the late 80s west might be a 26/8 player on 55% shooting some years.

[Le Shaqtus]

He aight.

[Clifton]

I also think Pau Gasol is a good comparison in the aspect of all-time ranking and HOF probablility.
I hate comparing him to Pau though. I'm very high on both players, but Pau is such an underachiever, even from one minute to the next, that it's painful.


Im seeing no less than 11 one could argue goes over him and 16 you could argue were better players.
That's the thing. There are so many guys I can't put him over, even though he's so dependable and so good that I really want to. There are just a lot of really good point guards, both now and in the past.

Especially today. Almost every team has a PG they're really happy with. Ty Lawson probably isn't even clearly top ten at the position, and he's the best player on an outside title contender. It's a stacked position right now, and Parker is only on the outside of the top 5 IMO.

[RichieW]

Parker is only on the outside of the top 5 IMO.

If Parker isn't #1, then he's a close 2nd behind Chris Paul. No way can you put Rondo, Deron or Rose over him. Irving, Curry and Westbrook are probably close but none is as good as Parker this year or last.

[Dbrog]

Parker has been a top5 player the last two seasons.

JJohnson is an inefficient chucker who hasn't done anything beside lose in the first round, his inefficient low IQ game is a major reason why the Hawks were so mediocre for so long.

SMH at "system player" shooting over 50% isn't because of the system it's because he trains hard, plays hard, looks to set-up his teammates and doesn't take bad shots.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:coleman:

[Dragonyeuw]

.

Top 5 PG of all time.




Career (team) achievement-wise, probably. As an actual talent, who off the following list does he bump to get into the top 5?

Magic
Oscar
Stockton
Isiah
Kidd

Better than Gary Payton? Nash? Do his rings won as a key contributor alongside a top 10 GOAT player, all-time great coach, and one of the best run franchises in American team sports make him a better player than those two?

[Qwertyazerty]

Anyone can shoot unstoppable shots. The thing that matters the most is how consistent you are. It's not something you can show with a highlight video.

Those highlights were in response to Nick young comment about Navarro doing his floater only against weak defenders. In those videos Navarro does it against elite NBA players.

But are you really doubting Navarro's consistence with his floater??? Maybe one highlight may not show you that, nor 100 of them which I'm not going to post. What I can say is that he already destroyed with it the USA jr team in 1999 world's junior championship and he's still using it efficiently this season (being old and affected by injuries).

I really like Parker, he was born close to my own town and he is amazing, but I'm not sure his floater is (or has ever been) better than Navarro's at its best.

[Nick Young]

Career (team) achievement-wise, probably. As an actual talent, who off the following list does he bump to get into the top 5?

Magic
Oscar
Stockton
Isiah
Kidd

Better than Gary Payton? Nash? Do his rings won as a key contributor alongside a top 10 GOAT player, all-time great coach, and one of the best run franchises in American team sports make him a better player than those two?
Clearly better then Nash. He outplays him every time they go against eachother.

And yes Kidd is amazing as a pure PG, but Tony Parker with his scoring and penetration is more effective, the proof is in the titles.

[SoCalLakersFan1]

He's been the 3rd best player on his own team for over half his career, but that's not his fault. He's always been a top 5-7 point guard in the league who has been in the top 3 a few times (in my opinion, the 2nd best point guard last year and this year), but in the playoffs, he never steps up like the other two members of the Spurs' big 3 usually do (unless its against poor defensive point guards).

He's still in his prime though, so he has a few years to gather more all-star and all-nba appearances.

[sportjames23]

Clearly better then Nash. He outplays him every time they go against eachother.

And yes Kidd is amazing as a pure PG, but Tony Parker with his scoring and penetration is more effective, the proof is in the titles.

I'm sure playing with Duncan and Manu has a lot to do with that.

Put Parker on Kidd's Nets teams. Do they even make the Finals in the East back then?

[Clifton]

If Parker isn't #1, then he's a close 2nd behind Chris Paul. No way can you put Rondo, Deron or Rose over him. Irving, Curry and Westbrook are probably close but none is as good as Parker this year or last.
To me, Paul and Westbrook are clearly better. Rose, when healthy, is too. Then there are a whole slew of guys who I would say Parker is better than, but it's not obvious. The reason I take Parker over them is his resume / record. But it's not clear to me that Deron, Irving, Curry, Lillard, heck even Jrue Holiday or Ty Lawson (ok now I'm stretching but you get the point) couldn't step in and do what Parker is doing with Pop, Duncan, that system, those role players. The reason Parker gets the nod over them is because he IS doing it, right now, for us all to see.

[Euroleague]

Navarro is the precursor, but his floater isn't necessarily better. Faster, definitely, but not as consistent IMO.

Besides he does it on one leg, which means you have to commit to it, and it's easier to see it coming; Parker can fake his floater and just stop and do an up-and-under.

I'd love to see the stats though. Is there any way to get this kind of number?

Navarro's floater has range out to the 3 point line.

[Euroleague]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25GVX3vQTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvzISlKZZA

At its best, Navarro's floater was almost impossible to stop. Parker is better in many other areas, but floaters and 3pt shooting are Navarro's best weapons.

What's hilarious is that he was getting his floater off easier against Team USA than he usually does in ACB and Euroleague against those "slow, bald 37 year old 6-7 Lithuanian centers".

[Nick Young]

Those highlights were in response to Nick young comment about Navarro doing his floater only against weak defenders. In those videos Navarro does it against elite NBA players.

But are you really doubting Navarro's consistence with his floater??? Maybe one highlight may not show you that, nor 100 of them which I'm not going to post. What I can say is that he already destroyed with it the USA jr team in 1999 world's junior championship and he's still using it efficiently this season (being old and affected by injuries).

I really like Parker, he was born close to my own town and he is amazing, but I'm not sure his floater is (or has ever been) better than Navarro's at its best.
Parker's floater is better because Tony Parker is quicker and can jump higher.

JCN was a 40% shooter in the NBA and 10 ppg in 25 MPG. It's not bad stats but he's nowhere near the scorer Tony Parker is, in the paint or otherwise. JCN is quick don't get me wrong, I'm not calling him unathletic, but Tony Parker is quicker on a different level.

[Nick Young]

To me, Paul and Westbrook are clearly better. Rose, when healthy, is too. Then there are a whole slew of guys who I would say Parker is better than, but it's not obvious. The reason I take Parker over them is his resume / record. But it's not clear to me that Deron, Irving, Curry, Lillard, heck even Jrue Holiday or Ty Lawson (ok now I'm stretching but you get the point) couldn't step in and do what Parker is doing with Pop, Duncan, that system, those role players. The reason Parker gets the nod over them is because he IS doing it, right now, for us all to see.
How is worse defense playing 43% 21PPG shooting Derek Rose better then Tony Parker?

[rmt]

Parker's floater is better because Tony Parker is quicker and can jump higher.

JCN was a 40% shooter in the NBA and 10 ppg in 25 MPG. It's not bad stats but he's nowhere near the scorer Tony Parker is, in the paint or otherwise. JCN is quick don't get me wrong, I'm not calling him unathletic, but Tony Parker is quicker on a different level.

Parker doesn't jump very high - I've never even seen him dunk before. He has excellent body control, is durable (knows how to fall) and does exactly what Pop says. He doesn't try to go over his limits (like Manu).