Id like to ask someone in the know about a few Euroleague players.....

[Kblaze8855]

...and the likelyhood of them coming over and how well they think they would do if they did.

Because I made the topic I have no problem just deleting any reference to Anthony Parker, Arkansas, or anything if the kind....I will not offend myself.

Serious question about some of these guys...

Ive long believed that at least at point....and center...there have to be great players in europe. Perhaps less on the wings where some of the NBa athletes might just eat them up. But you see bigmen looking great in the olympics...points who never get a shot here have owned teams of NBa players.

So many teams are short on talent, fundamentals, or just....players who look like they belong on the floor. Meanwhile Juan Carlos Navarro is in europe. He looked solid on Memphis. Pekovic didnt get here till he was...25? Contract issues I believe. Teodosic is a euroleague MVP. Nocioni is back over there. He was one of my favorite Bulls. Diamantidis is a 5 or 6 time DPOY over there and is supposed to be a great point forward. I know he can take someones spot.

Rudy Fernandez briefly looked like the truth in Portland before he was just...never seen again for some reason.

I remember in like 02 or 03 we thought the huge Greek center(6'9'' 350 or so at the time) was coming over. Im not even gonna attempt to sound out his name. Ill call him Sofo. He was supposed to join the clippers. I heard he tried out again and didnt make it. Has no stamina...but cmon. You see some of the scum out here at the 5?

You pay any attention to Festus Ezeli last night? I know hes a rookie but...he straight up gave away like 3 posessions and 2 lobs in 5 minutes of key playoff basketball with mistakes. Losing his man off the ball. Moving screen. Just being lost and frustrated.

There isnt some 29 year old big bodied center in Europe who could just make the right play...stand in the right spot...rebound...make a crafty hook or two? Some guy to get these guys off the floor till they are ready?

All these project bigmen are taking up space id like to use on more ready players probbaly going unseen elsewhere.

But....

A few of the people I saw play in the euroleague/international games ive watched I thought would be good...just...didnt work out.

Spanoulis...we wont go into. But Jasikevičius(had to google that one)...he looked so ready to step in and run a team. Confidence out the ass. Jumper....pure. He was dropping passes into windows I could barely see on replay. Gets over here...nothing. I thought he would get a real shot on the warriors with Nellie....nothing.

Look at Pablo Prigioni...all euroleague not long ago. Hes getting old but he was still a good player in europe a few years back going by the all euroleague teams.

Hes....ok...here. Thats about all.

Is it the points who have trouble with the transition?

Any other Pekovics over there?

How much would it take to get Navarro back? Cant you see him like....coming off the bench for the Spurs playing the 1 and 2?

These guys just not being offered the money to justify leaving europe? Are NBA teams just not convinced they are that good?


Am I wrong to have high hopes for Nikola Mirotic on the Bulls next year? He looked solid in the clips/half a game I watched. Dirk looking jumper I suspect is hell to block and he seems like a good shot blocker.

Are there just dozens of middling bigmen over there teams could make use of here if they didnt worry about getting the next big thing?

An awful lot of guys I see just...shouldnt be on the court.

I gotta believe there are 8-10 year vets in europe who just know the game better.

They demanding too much? Buyout issues too major?

Whats the problem?

Why am I subjected to all these borderline Dleagers with so many decent players looking good vs team USA and and in preseason games?


Really...how hard would it be for the Celtics to pull a pass first point out of Europe to help fill in for Rondo on offense?

DeSagana Diop just keeps hanging on in the league. Ive not seen him make a move the equal of some I saw put on tyson Chandler in the olympics...ever. And hes not even that good a defender.

What the **** NBA gms?


There must be 90 people in europe better than Ish Smith. They cant be demanding 10 million each.

Someone explain.

[Teanett]

of course there are better players than ezeli in europe but they play for top dollar in the final stages of the season in european leagues. you cant just tell them to come over and fill in for a couple of months.

if a 35 year old prigioni can play in the nba, so can other euroleaguers.
the thing is, they CHOOSE to play in europe for various reasons other than money. be it playing time, culture, language, playing for their childhood team, not dealing with long ass flights etc...

rudy is the perfect example. i think he went back to spain because of the adoration of the spanish fans and he plays for real madrid, which for spaniards is like playing for the lakers.
(the 2.7 mio € dont hurt either)

[Kblaze8855]

[quote=Teanett]of course there are better players than ezeli in europe but they play for top dollar in the final stages of the season in european leagues. you cant just tell them to come over and fill in for a couple of months.

if a 35 year old prigioni can play in the nba, so can other euroleaguers.
the thing is, they CHOOSE to play in europe for various reasons other than money. be it playing time, culture, language, playing for their childhood team, not dealing with long ass flights etc...

rudy is the perfect example. i think he went back to spain because of the adoration of the spanish fans and he plays for real madrid, which for spaniards is like playing for the lakers.
(the 2.7 mio

[BoutPractice]

I'm not as big a Euroleague fan as an NBA fan, but I do watch games from time to time.

Among guards, I think Teodosic, McCaleb and Llull could be awesome under the right circumstances, but I don't see them making the jump.

And if you're looking for competent bigmen who could teach a thing or two to some of the low bball iq fillers in the league right now, you always have Erazem Lorbek (Spurs have his rights I believe), Darius Lavrinovic, or Giorgios Printezis.

[Teanett]

I dont mean a couple months. I mean sign them long term. What are the rules on undrafted FA rookie contracts? I know Pekovic was taken second round for the express purpose of being able to offer him more than he could get as say...the 29th pick. To cover his buyout.

Say there is some guy...maybe 28...Europe...roughly that good. never been drafted. Makes 2 million...net. I know thats the difference...they often pay your taxes there. But anyway....

What is the max for such a player? If you wanted to throw him 8 million for a year...could you?

Teams are paying 50 million for anyone who can put up 12/9....

Money shouldnt be as big an obstacle as it seems it is.

afaik prigioni and copeland play for the rookie minimum.

[Djetic]

Well, when u already mentioned Pekovic, we(Montenegrins) have one youngish(21 year) player which we call Baby Pek.He is basically less stronger version of Pek with outside jumper and 3pt range(45% for 3).He plays PF/C for Valencia in ACB league he is team 2nd scorer(had few 30+ pts game which is huge for euroball),1st in rebounding and fouls drawn which brought him Eurocup Rising star award.His game is very psychical,he gets under the basket easily using simple but effective post moves(like Pekovic does).He somehow managed to go under the scouts radar.I didn't saw him being projected for this draft in mock drafts.

He have few things to fix, but he is not rushing for NBA nor he is interested of playing abroad according to last infos i had from him.

[Grinder]

I dont mean a couple months. I mean sign them long term. What are the rules on undrafted FA rookie contracts? I know Pekovic was taken second round for the express purpose of being able to offer him more than he could get as say...the 29th pick. To cover his buyout.

Say there is some guy...maybe 28...Europe...roughly that good. never been drafted. Makes 2 million...net. I know thats the difference...they often pay your taxes there. But anyway....

What is the max for such a player? If you wanted to throw him 8 million for a year...could you?

Teams are paying 50 million for anyone who can put up 12/9....

Money shouldnt be as big an obstacle as it seems it is.

You can sign them for more than the rookie minimum. Mirza Teletovic was an undrafted international free agent and he has a 3 year/$10 million contract with the Nets. I think he was initially offered the MLE until they lowered their offer because of signing Gerald Wallace. Alexey Shved is on a similar contract.


Well, when u already mentioned Pekovic, we(Montenegrins) have one youngish(21 year) player which we call Baby Pek.He is basically less stronger version of Pek with outside jumper and 3pt range(45% for 3).He plays PF/C for Valencia in ACB league he is team 2nd scorer(had few 30+ pts game which is huge for euroball),1st in rebounding and fouls drawn which brought him Eurocup Rising star award.His game is very psychical,he gets under the basket easily using simple but effective post moves(like Pekovic does).He somehow managed to go under the scouts radar.I didn't saw him being projected for this draft in mock drafts.

He have few things to fix, but he is not rushing for NBA nor he is interested of playing abroad according to last infos i had from him.

You're talking about Dubljevic right? I like his game but he's not that similar to Pekovic. You guys have a great team for such a small country. I like Nikola Ivanovic as well.



I'm not as big a Euroleague fan as an NBA fan, but I do watch games from time to time.

Among guards, I think Teodosic, McCaleb and Llull could be awesome under the right circumstances, but I don't see them making the jump.

And if you're looking for competent bigmen who could teach a thing or two to some of the low bball iq fillers in the league right now, you always have Erazem Lorbek (Spurs have his rights I believe), Darius Lavrinovic, or Giorgios Printezis.


I think the Blazers have Printezis' draft rights. He'd be a great fit in the NBA. Lorbek was close to joining the Spurs this past year but it'll be hard to get him. He plays on a great club in a beautiful city and makes a lot of money in a featured role. No team would sign Lavrinovic. He's past his prime.

Llull's draft rights are owned by the Rockets, they paid a pretty penny for it too, but it's hard to believe he'll leave Real Madrid and I think he's locked into a long term contract.

[TimmyDuncan]

Spurs had a lot of trouble to make Tiago Splitter come in the NBA even with the draft rights.

Because he was already a 25+ year old already proven in Spain and Euroleague (Spanish league MVP) so he had a lot of offers better than the spurs one (2 years 4M because of salary cap).

So Splitter had to choose either a better offer from an euroleague team or come in the NBA, hope he does well and then make the big $$$ at 27 or 28 years old with his 2nd NBA contract

Now we know he made the good choice. He had a good year, is FA this off season and will probably have 8+ or 10+ M$ per year for at least 3 or 4 years but it could have been 2 bad years and he would have lost a lot of money

It's not an easy choice to prove yourself again for less money at 25+ year old

[Djetic]

You're talking about Dubljevic right? I like his game but he's not that similar to Pekovic. You guys have a great team for such a small country. I like Nikola Ivanovic as well.
Yeah. lol, i cant believe i forgot to type guy name after all those things i wrote :D

Dubljevic game is more diverse, Pek does a lot of work in low-post and he does it well but Dubljevic is multiple threat, he can hurt you from perimeter,from behind the arc,he is very good at pick and roll(while he would probably struggle in NBA vs more athletic and faster PF's) and we probably misunderstood when i said he looks like Pek because their post moves are so much alike so i dared to compare them.

Nikola Ivanovic stagnated this year, improved very little mostly because most our coaches are pure guard killers, his job was to bring the ball to the other side and give it either to first or 2nd scoring option.When he attempted to make some play by himself(drive to the basket,make space for his own shot) he would get benched and it killed his confidence later in season, and even his shooting stroke was gone making him liability in offense.

Few weeks ago FIBA published nice article about our bigs and rest of the team:Montenegro,The big men factory (http://www.fibaeurope.com/coid_1CFBowPCJiADEp9SRbi-f2.articleMode_on.html)

[CeltsGarlic]

A lot of retired or close to it euro players often say, after being asked about why they didnt chose NBA, that NBA was their dream when they were young and looked at it like a main destination point, but after getting their name and game done in euroleague, that just didnt find the point to leave. They admit that they had offers, but why to risk so much to possibly waste couple years of their prime (macijauskas).

[alexd]

in the nba and europe there are different standards of how we judge players.for example pietrus was considered great defender and good player in nba but not so much in europe.in europe the game is more basic.what i mean by that is that almost all players have good fundamentals can shoot.the coach has a bigger role.you can play zone so you can take advantage of the others team poor shooting.what you won t see is high flying dunks,super athletes and showmanship
by sofo you mean schortianitis.he has a mini size shaq body type but he s lazy.prefers going out and partying than getting in shape.in 2006 he played very good against.he made howard bosh etc look like fools.but he got fat and out of shape
jasikevicius was one of the best players in europe.amazing shooter cold blooded and the best pick and roll pg.he can pass like rubio shoot like a machine.i had the chance to practice with him once and the guy just couldn t miss.but he was never a great athelete that s why he couldn t make it to the nba
printezis is an ok athlete with awful shooting form.can shoot decently when left open but can t shoot at all when under pressure.for close range he s affective and can use both hands.i wouldn t count him for a solid nba carrer
good players to watch out are
tomic from barcelona (2.17 guy with good shooting)
obviolusly mcalleb but he s not getting any younger
diamantidis is now old and almost washed up.used to be a great player and amazing defender
teodosic is the westbrook of europe without his athleticism.he s very good but damn he s an idiot
spanoulis would fit to the nba.fast slasher amazing first step but lacks the mentality and the iq to make a career in the nba
another guy i like for the nba is papanikolaou.long fast athletic with decent shooting(new york drafted him last year )
others to look out from europe are
papagiannis is another greek talent (15 years old 2.10 cm)
Rudy Gobert from france
giannis adetokoubo from greece

all these players i don t say that they will play nba but they are young and have room to develop
if you have any questions just let me know

[ZenMaster]

in the nba and europe there are different standards of how we judge players.for example pietrus was considered great defender and good player in nba but not so much in europe.in europe the game is more basic.what i mean by that is that almost all players have good fundamentals can shoot.the coach has a bigger role.you can play zone so you can take advantage of the others team poor shooting.what you won t see is high flying dunks,super athletes and showmanship
by sofo you mean schortianitis.he has a mini size shaq body type but he s lazy.prefers going out and partying than getting in shape.in 2006 he played very good against.he made howard bosh etc look like fools.but he got fat and out of shape
jasikevicius was one of the best players in europe.amazing shooter cold blooded and the best pick and roll pg.he can pass like rubio shoot like a machine.i had the chance to practice with him once and the guy just couldn t miss.but he was never a great athelete that s why he couldn t make it to the nba
printezis is an ok athlete with awful shooting form.can shoot decently when left open but can t shoot at all when under pressure.for close range he s affective and can use both hands.i wouldn t count him for a solid nba carrer
good players to watch out are
tomic from barcelona (2.17 guy with good shooting)
obviolusly mcalleb but he s not getting any younger
diamantidis is now old and almost washed up.used to be a great player and amazing defender
teodosic is the westbrook of europe without his athleticism.he s very good but damn he s an idiot
spanoulis would fit to the nba.fast slasher amazing first step but lacks the mentality and the iq to make a career in the nba
another guy i like for the nba is papanikolaou.long fast athletic with decent shooting(new york drafted him last year )
others to look out from europe are
papagiannis is another greek talent (15 years old 2.10 cm)
Rudy Gobert from france
giannis adetokoubo from greece

all these players i don t say that they will play nba but they are young and have room to develop
if you have any questions just let me know

Have you seen the big kid Larsen from Denmark?

[alexd]

Have you seen the big kid Larsen from Denmark?

you mean the 7 footer?

[outbreak]

One thing to remember though is that if a player has grown up dreaming of playing in the NBA chances are that they would have come over for college or at least declared when they were eligible for the draft.

If they've already established themselves in Europe chances are they will have a family and will already be making a couple of mil a year. Coming to the NBA means moving their family and possibly taking a pay cut as NBA teams usually don't throw money at a player who's an unproven rookie in the NBA. Plus they risk going from being a star to being a scrub riding the bench.

Yeah there's exceptions to this but for the majority I think it fits.

I think we'll keep seeing more and more euro kids in the draft though as for this current generation they would have grown up with MUCH more access to following the NBA through league pass. A lot of the vets in the Euroleague would have followed euroleague over NBA as it was hard to follow the NBA due to time differences and it not being on tv. If a kid grows up following the NBA he's more liking to want to come play college ball and try to be in the NBA.

[ZenMaster]

you mean the 7 footer?

Yeah, what you think of him?

[HarryCallahan]

It's hard to get player to leave their home country and uproot their family to go to America. I think a more reliable bet is to go after guys who have already moved from their home country such as Joe Ingles, like the Spurs did with Baynes who will be very successful in the NBA.

I'd love Lorbek to come over, but that looking like it'll never happen now.

[Sakkreth]

What often happens to good european players in nba: They come over and get 10mins a game at most in complete different system and type of basketball and even different rules, if they don't succeed they get benched, and at some point maybe gets another chance for even less time if gets it ever, some has language barriers also. It's hard to produce in those 5-10 minutes in completely new environemnt and different game and pressure is on u have to produce or u get benched and who knows when u getting next chance.

[32MJ32]

What often happens to good european players in nba: They come over and get 10mins a game at most in complete different system and type of basketball and even different rules, if they don't succeed they get benched, and at some point maybe gets another chance for even less time if gets it ever, some has language barriers also. It's hard to produce in those 5-10 minutes in completely new environemnt and different game and pressure is on u have to produce or u get benched and who knows when u getting next chance.

This has been the case for a couple of Aussie guys - as great as the NBA is, they don't want to risk giving up 30+ minutes a game in a good European league to potentially ride the pine.

For the top stars, too, the value of their contracts in Europe may trump what they can make in the NBA. And from what I understand, NBA teams can't pay more than $300,000 to buy them out, either.

With a more liberal system, such as the transfer market in soccer, where a player can jump leagues as long as a fee is negotiated between the two clubs, you might see more guys coming over.

[32MJ32]

Also I'd like to nominate Sasha Kaun as someone who deserves an NBA gig and doesn't have one, for whatever reason.

He's a monster, he's smart, he's tough and he can finish in traffic. He shoots free throws like a left tackle but so do at least 40 other NBA bigs

[rustycage]

I think the Blazers have Printezis' draft rights. He'd be a great fit in the NBA.

His rights were traded to OKC for Eric Maynor some months ago. And yes, he would be a great fit.

[chocolatethunder]

I dont mean a couple months. I mean sign them long term. What are the rules on undrafted FA rookie contracts? I know Pekovic was taken second round for the express purpose of being able to offer him more than he could get as say...the 29th pick. To cover his buyout.

Say there is some guy...maybe 28...Europe...roughly that good. never been drafted. Makes 2 million...net. I know thats the difference...they often pay your taxes there. But anyway....

What is the max for such a player? If you wanted to throw him 8 million for a year...could you?

Teams are paying 50 million for anyone who can put up 12/9....

Money shouldnt be as big an obstacle as it seems it is.
I can say a little about this because I have a bunch of friends who play in europe and one who plays in the NBA but know a few ex NBA guys as well, one who played in Europe first and one who played in Europe after the NBA. I know guys who play in C leagues all the way up to the best leagues. One of my friends plays for Maccabbi Tel Aviv ( where Sofo played last year). This dude is American and he makes around a million in Israel. He has been offered NBA contracts but has not taken them because the likelyhood of him making more money in the NBA isn't that great. He's over 25 and makes like a million in Israel w/ his club paying his taxes and his agent fees all while housing him as well. The Spurs offered him a two year deal and he declined because the money was similar but here he pays his agent and his taxes and he's likely not going to play or maybe 5-10 min a game. There he plays a lot, is visible and could make even more money. Of course the potential to make loads of money exists in the NBA but the risk it too great I'd say, plus he's comfortable.

[32MJ32]

I think some of it is related to the risk aversity of NBA GM's, too. We have a saying down here about one of our national sports teams that goes: "It's harder to get out, than get in."

Read: as hard as it is to get in to the NBA, once you're in, you're probably going to be in for a while, because teams would rather bring in a veteran "name" than take a risk on someone new....

...even if that veteran name is DeSagana Diop.

[Euroleague]

Kblaze8855 --->

It's nice to see that you finally started to grasp (about time) how overrated the level of the NBA and its players are. Now what you need to grasp is the real reason so many very good players in Europe don't play in the NBA - even though many of them are better than the typical 8-15 men on most NBA teams.

It's because the NBA is a 100% marketing gimmick driven league. The whole basis of the NBA's existence is this image, rep, and perception of it being "the best league in the world".

Look at this forum, 95+% of the people here say the NBA is the ONLY "pro league" in the world, and that even a league like Euroleague is a "minor league" and not even NCAA level.

This shit is obviously completely insane, but that's what the average NBA fan, not just in the USA, but worldwide, actually believes.

IF, IF, IF, the NBA started bringing in a lot more of the good players in Europe, the NBA image and perception of being the best league in the world, would be totally gone very quickly.

As it stands now, the NBA plays it all very carefully, with gimmick marketing guys like Rubio (a guy that was below average, to even scrub like, for the standards of a Euroleague point guard) and markets them up.

The NBA is absolutely terrified of players like Navarro, Teodosic, Spanoulis, Diamantidis, Jasikevicius, Macijuaskas coming to the NBA and getting good consistent playing time and a big role in the team, and one that suits their play and game. Because it would destroy the NBA image permanently.

Thus, the almost universal no NBA interest in these players, or them being treated badly and unfairly if they do come to the NBA.

The NBA started this with Drazen Petrovic (the original threat to NBA marketing themes), and ever since then, that has been their standard operating procedure. Top European basketball is a direct competitor and threat to the NBA, thus, that is why the NBA acts like it does in regards to this.

THAT is why you have probably 30 or so NBA centers with jobs year after year in the NBA, that probably not a single one of them could to stay in the rotation of a good Euroleague club.

The NBA is OK with a couple guys like Splitter or Pekovic coming from Euroleague and getting some playing time, but ONLY after they get benched for a a year or two (to prop up the IMAGINARY FAKE perception that the NBA is "better" than the Euroleague), but then you can't start having a whole bunch of these guys.............that would damage the NBA image and brand.

The truth is that for example, Euroleague point guards are generally MUCH BETTER on average than NBA point guards, and all you ever hear from the NBA marketing is how it's the best era of all time for NBA point guards, and how "Euroleague point guards can't transition to the NBA"...........

The REAL reason and TRUTH is, that the Euroleague has much better point guards in general, and so the NBA is terrified of touching them, that way they can't come in and tear up the NBA, and in the process expose just how bad the NBA really is these days.

But you can take a 36 year old washed up has been like Prigioni, a scrub from Euroleague like Gary Neal, Goran Dragic, Ricky Rubio, a below average guy from Euroleague like Jose Calderon, and do what you want with them in the NBA.

What if some guy like Jasikevicius or Spanoulis is hell bent on playing in the NBA? OK then........give them a contract and then glue their ass to the bench, and trash them in the media until they get fed up and leave. Then tell everyone they "were not good enough for the vastly superior NBA, and they left with their tail between their legs to go back to the minor league in Europe".

The NBA teams, their announcers, and the NBA related sports media are ALL paid to do this by the NBA.

Eventually, if you really pay attention, you will grasp this.

And if you ever did start to follow the Euroleague and FIBA EuroBasket closely, you would see very quickly that it's a much better quality of basketball than the NBA is.

And in fact, guys like Ricky Rubio, Vassilis Spanoulis, Nenad Krstic, Sarunas Jasikevicius, Juan Carlos Navarro, Larry Bird, Larry Brown, Chris Kaman, Joakim Noah, and Mike Fratello have all basically said it is as well.

And magically..........whenever someone like that says it, you immediately see within 24 hours, where US sports media is flooded with some "interview" from someone that has been involved in both, saying how, "the NBA is vastly superior to the Euroleague".

Always.........like absolute clockwork. The problem is the statements made will conflict with previous or later statements made by the same people. Like how Kirilenko said the NBA was better than Euroleague, when he did an NBA interview, but then when he did a FIBA interview, he said the players in Euroleague were generally just as good as NBA players..........

It's all NBA bullshit marketing.

And you have been falling for it. Maybe now you are just starting to see the light.

And just so you know, THIS and EVERY other American themed basketball forum have NBA employees posting on them, and making tons of posts that push the NBA only marketing themes.

And the NBA related US sports media are paid to push it also, and that includes the NBA draft themed sites. Some of the NBA marketing sites even pose as European or international basketball sites.

[duskovujosevic]

i like euroleague, yes there are players who can make in NBA. Not an elite level, but solid back ups and role players. Players from Europe are important pieces in the puzzle of every serious team. Most likely you' ll get bench player with 10 + points, great fundamentals, understanding of team oriented bball etc.

Players like Manu, Tony Parker, Nowitzki, Stojakovic etc. are players (under euroleague standard) let's say one in 10 milion. And maybe one in 20 years.

Others mantioned like Teodosic, Mirotic, V-Span, are great under Euroleague measures, but lack of athleticism is something you must have if you are aiming elite level. If not you'll be great back up with 10 + pts and 5 rbs, or 5-6 as.

The gap between these basketball philosophies is getting smaller and smaller. In next 10 or 20 years maybe we will witness, equal games between europe teams and usa dream team in olympics

[outbreak]

Kblaze8855 --->

It's nice to see that you finally started to grasp (about time) how overrated the level of the NBA and its players are. Now what you need to grasp is the real reason so many very good players in Europe don't play in the NBA - even though many of them are better than the typical 8-15 men on most NBA teams.

It's because the NBA is a 100% marketing gimmick driven league. The whole basis of the NBA's existence is this image, rep, and perception of it being "the best league in the world".

Look at this forum, 95+% of the people here say the NBA is the ONLY "pro league" in the world, and that even a league like Euroleague is a "minor league" and not even NCAA level.

This shit is obviously completely insane, but that's what the average NBA fan, not just in the USA, but worldwide, actually believes.

IF, IF, IF, the NBA started bringing in a lot more of the good players in Europe, the NBA image and perception of being the best league in the world, would be totally gone very quickly.

As it stands now, the NBA plays it all very carefully, with gimmick marketing guys like Rubio (a guy that was below average, to even scrub like, for the standards of a Euroleague point guard) and markets them up.

The NBA is absolutely terrified of players like Navarro, Teodosic, Spanoulis, Diamantidis, Jasikevicius, Macijuaskas coming to the NBA and getting playing time and a big role. Because it would destroy the NBA image permanently.

Thus, the almost universal no NBA interest in these players, or them being treated badly and unfairly if they do come to the NBA.

The NBA started this with Drazen Petrovic (the original threat to NBA marketing themes), and ever since then, that has been their standard operating procedure. Top European basketball is a direct competitor and threat to the NBA, thus that is why the NBA acts like it does.

THAT is why you have probably 30 or so NBA centers with jobs year after year in the NBA, that probably not a single one of them could to stay in the rotation of a good Euroleague.

The NBA is OK with a couple guys like Splitter or Pekovic coming from Euroleague and getting some playing time, but ONLY after they get benched for a a year or two (to prop up the IMAGINARY FAKE perception that the NBA is "better" than the Euroleague), but then you can't start having a whole bunch of these guys.............that would damage the NBA image and brand.

The truth is that for example, Euroleague point guards are generally MUCH BETTER on average than NBA point guards, and all you ever hear from the NBA marketing is how it's the best era of all time for NBA point guards, and how "Euroleague point guards can't transition to the NBA"...........

The REAL reason and TRUTH is, that the Euroleague has much better point guards in general, and so the NBA is terrified of touching them, that way they can't come in and tear up the NBA, and in the process expose just how bad the NBA really is these days.

But you can take a 36 year old washed up has been like Prigioni, a scrub from Euroleague like Gary Neal, Goran Dragic, Ricky Rubio, a below average guy from Euroleague like Jose Calderon, and do what you want with them in the NBA.

What if some guy like Jasikevicius or Spanoulis is hell bent on playing in the NBA? OK then........give them a contract and then glue their ass to the bench, and trash them in the media until they get fed up and leave. Then tell everyone they "were not good enough for the vastly superior NBA, and they left with their tail between their legs to go back to the minor league in Europe".

The NBA teams, their announcers, and the NBA related sports media are ALL paid to do this by the NBA.

Eventually, if you really pay attention, you will grasp this.

And if you ever did start to follow the Euroleague and FIBA EuroBasket closely, you would see very quickly that it's a much better quality of basketball than the NBA is.

And in fact, guys like Ricky Rubio, Vassilis Spanoulis, Nenad Krstic, Sarunas Jasikevicius, Juan Carlos Navarro, Larry Bird, Larry Brown, Chris Kaman, Joakim Noah, and Mike Fratello have all basically said it is as well.

And magically..........whenever someone like that says it, you immediately see within 24 hours, where US sports media is flooded with some "interview" from someone that has been involved in both saying how "the NBA is vastly superior to the Euroleague".

Always.........like absolute clockwork. The problem is the statements made will conflict with previous or later statements made by the same people. Like how Kirilenko said the NBA was better than Euroleague, when he did an NBA interview, but then when he did a FIBA interview, he said the players in Euroleague were just as good as NBA players..........

It's all NBA bullshit marketing.

And you have been falling for it. Maybe now you are just starting to see the light.

And just so you know, THIS and EVERY other American themed basketball forum have NBA employees posting on them, and making tons of posts that push the NBA only marketing themes.

And the NBA related US sports media are paid to push it also, and that includes the NBA draft themed sites. Some of the NBA marketing sites even pose as European or international basketball sites.
:facepalm
you figured it out man it's all one big conspiracy! Teams are deliberately gimping themselves by not playing euro guys enough minutes to make them look bad. They don't care about the championship and all the extra cash they would make assembling a winning team of these euro monsters, they just care about keeping them down and making them look bad!

You also haven't realised the people who are claiming that euroleague is worse then ncaa are trolling you. Just accept euroleague and nba are different games, some players thrive in one (rubio in the nba) some players thrive in the other (parker in euroleague).

[Euroleague]

I can say a little about this because I have a bunch of friends who play in europe and one who plays in the NBA but know a few ex NBA guys as well, one who played in Europe first and one who played in Europe after the NBA. I know guys who play in C leagues all the way up to the best leagues. One of my friends plays for Maccabbi Tel Aviv ( where Sofo played last year). This dude is American and he makes around a million in Israel. He has been offered NBA contracts but has not taken them because the likelyhood of him making more money in the NBA isn't that great. He's over 25 and makes like a million in Israel w/ his club paying his taxes and his agent fees all while housing him as well. The Spurs offered him a two year deal and he declined because the money was similar but here he pays his agent and his taxes and he's likely not going to play or maybe 5-10 min a game. There he plays a lot, is visible and could make even more money. Of course the potential to make loads of money exists in the NBA but the risk it too great I'd say, plus he's comfortable.

Devin Smith?

[Euroleague]

i like euroleague, yes there are players who can make in NBA. Not an elite level, but solid back ups and role players. Players from Europe are important pieces in the puzzle of every serious team. Most likely you' ll get bench player with 10 + points, great fundamentals, understanding of team oriented bball etc.

Players like Manu, Tony Parker, Nowitzki, Stojakovic etc. are players (under euroleague standard) let's say one in 10 milion. And maybe one in 20 years.

Others mantioned like Teodosic, Mirotic, V-Span, are great under Euroleague measures, but lack of athleticism is something you must have if you are aiming elite level. If not you'll be great back up with 10 + pts and 5 rbs, or 5-6 as.

The gap between these basketball philosophies is getting smaller and smaller. In next 10 or 20 years maybe we will witness, equal games between europe teams and usa dream team in olympics

You have amazing math skills, reasoning ability, and logic.

[Euroleague]

:facepalm
you figured it out man it's all one big conspiracy! Teams are deliberately gimping themselves by not playing euro guys enough minutes to make them look bad. They don't care about the championship and all the extra cash they would make assembling a winning team of these euro monsters, they just care about keeping them down and making them look bad!

You also haven't realised the people who are claiming that euroleague is worse then ncaa are trolling you. Just accept euroleague and nba are different games, some players thrive in one (rubio in the nba) some players thrive in the other (parker in euroleague).

I have a high I.Q. That's all.

[Kblaze8855]

Whatever the reason those guys dont come over...it is not the NBA not wanting additional stars. David Stern is all about marketing yes....but as hes shown with the likes of Dirk, Yao, Rubio, and so on....his plan is to go get the fans where they are and make them NBA fans. To push the "NBA has the best players in the world" angle...by using the internationals.

If it were up to stern he would make a young euro a massive star and use it against european tv networks in the TV deals and so on. Hed be playing preseason games there like he did with Yao and Tmac in china. Hed like nothing more than 2-3 Rubios, an extra Dirk, and another Manu. Hes been trying to push the NBA globally for 20 years. More of those players would help.

Stern is pro money. Reducing the number of stars in the NBA does not help him. Few in america give a damn about the euroleague to begin with. Or even know it exists. Hes not gonna set aside millions of potential fans for the small number of hardcore fans who might question the NBAs best league status over some euro being good here.

Hed let the euro be great, use him to make more money off international tv, sell more jerseys in europe, and keep pushing the global NBA brand to his dream of a truly international league played on both sides of the atlantic.

Coaches who can barely keep a job arent gonna disregard an obvious star(based on practice) to...reduce...the number of european stars.

Which is so obvious I shouldnt have responded.....but **** it.

If I wasnt clear...im looking for basketball reasons. And maybe a few guys worth my attention over there.

Again....ill mention our prospect in europe:



CHICAGO -- Nikola Mirotic is probably at least two more years away from playing for the Chicago Bulls, but he already caught the eye of some of his future competition. That's because Mirotic has spent the last few days in the United States playing for Real Madrid against NBA teams. On Saturday it was the Memphis Grizzlies, the same team the Bulls faced on Tuesday night. Grizzlies All-Star Zach Randolph was impressed by what he saw from Mirotic.

"I didn't know that the Bulls drafted him ‘til (Monday) night," Randolph said before Tuesday's game. "One of the workers told me at Grand Lux, I was eating. I like the kid, man. He's got a stroke on him, he can play smart, he's a little physical. I think he can make a statement in this league one day."

Could he play right away, though?

"Yeah, you got to put him at the right spot," Randolph said. "I don't think he could play four or five. I don't know how his ballhandling is so I couldn't say, but I know he can shoot like a 3. I know he could shoot very well so if you put him in the right situation and the right spots I think he could be effective."

Grizzlies head coach Lionel Hollins wasn't as outward with his praise, but he knows with a little more seasoning Mirotic has a chance to be successful.

"I think he's got a chance to be in the league," Hollins said. "He can shoot the ball, he knows how to play. Obviously, when we start talking about a kid that hasn't come over, that is still young, it's about getting stronger and learning the NBA game. The NBA game is so much more aggressive and physical and over there a lot guys just stand on the perimeter and shoot shots and that's it. But he'll have to be able to play both positions and it will be tough for him (at times). We went small and played Rudy Gay at four and he became a non-factor. If he's playing against a bigger four, obviously, he's going to have a little bit more of an advantage."

Privately, Bulls executives have been impressed with Mirotic's game. They are hoping to bring him over as soon as possible, likely in two years when the restrictions in his contract become a little easier to negotiate around. In the meantime, the Bulls are left waiting, and hoping, the Mirotic continues to develop into the player they think he can be.

"He reminds me of Dirk (Nowitzki) and a little bit of Gallo (Danilo Gallinari), just a little bit," Randolph said. "But I can see the Dirk comparisons. I can see why, definitely.



Sounds kinda like Bargnani but he looked more physical when I watched him. I hope he comes over next year...just to get a look.

[Grinder]

Sounds kinda like Bargnani but he looked more physical when I watched him. I hope he comes over next year...just to get a look.

Regarding Mirotic - its tough to envision him coming over anytime soon because he's got a contract till 2017-2018 with a $3 million+ buyout.

So factoring in all the salary cap restrictions, rookie scale, and MLE rules,, he would have to give up somewhere in the range of $14-16 million to come to the NBA before his Real Madrid contract runs out. Real Madrid also is one of the best teams in Europe and doesn't need the money from a buyout so they'll have no reason to let him leave early.

He's not very similar to Bargnani but I can't really think of a player he's similar to in the NBA right now. The closest player in terms of style of play is probably Detlef Schrempf. He's a unique player and a very good asset for the Bulls to be sure though.

[HarryCallahan]

...

:applause:

Great work dude you figured it all out. I see now that it's Stern's fault that Splitter didn't get pt in his rookie year, and not Pop's for being a stubborn jackass. It's David Stern that makes Rubio a capable NBA player and not the bigger court and lower defensive expectations of pg's.


I have a high I.Q. That's all.

Evidently not, seeing as you can't distinguish between genuine and troll remarks like "Div II NCAA team could beat Panathinaikos."

[Kblaze8855]

Little known fact...the Bulls have the Bobcats first pick soon. I believe its from the Tyrus Thomas trade. Now its top 10 protected....top 8 after that...unprotected from there.

Be nice if dude comes over right in the middle of roses prime and we get a top 3 pick the same year.

[Dr.J4ever]

Kblaze8855 --->

It's nice to see that you finally started to grasp (about time) how overrated the level of the NBA and its players are. Now what you need to grasp is the real reason so many very good players in Europe don't play in the NBA - even though many of them are better than the typical 8-15 men on most NBA teams.

It's because the NBA is a 100% marketing gimmick driven league. The whole basis of the NBA's existence is this image, rep, and perception of it being "the best league in the world".

Look at this forum, 95+% of the people here say the NBA is the ONLY "pro league" in the world, and that even a league like Euroleague is a "minor league" and not even NCAA level.



This shit is obviously completely insane, but that's what the average NBA fan, not just in the USA, but worldwide, actually believes.

IF, IF, IF, the NBA started bringing in a lot more of the good players in Europe, the NBA image and perception of being the best league in the world, would be totally gone very quickly.





As it stands now, the NBA plays it all very carefully, with gimmick marketing guys like Rubio (a guy that was below average, to even scrub like, for the standards of a Euroleague point guard) and markets them up.

The NBA is absolutely terrified of players like Navarro, Teodosic, Spanoulis, Diamantidis, Jasikevicius, Macijuaskas coming to the NBA and getting good consistent playing time and a big role in the team, and one that suits their play and game. Because it would destroy the NBA image permanently.

Thus, the almost universal no NBA interest in these players, or them being treated badly and unfairly if they do come to the NBA.

The NBA started this with Drazen Petrovic (the original threat to NBA marketing themes), and ever since then, that has been their standard operating procedure. Top European basketball is a direct competitor and threat to the NBA, thus, that is why the NBA acts like it does in regards to this.

THAT is why you have probably 30 or so NBA centers with jobs year after year in the NBA, that probably not a single one of them could to stay in the rotation of a good Euroleague club.

The NBA is OK with a couple guys like Splitter or Pekovic coming from Euroleague and getting some playing time, but ONLY after they get benched for a a year or two (to prop up the IMAGINARY FAKE perception that the NBA is "better" than the Euroleague), but then you can't start having a whole bunch of these guys.............that would damage the NBA image and brand.

The truth is that for example, Euroleague point guards are generally MUCH BETTER on average than NBA point guards, and all you ever hear from the NBA marketing is how it's the best era of all time for NBA point guards, and how "Euroleague point guards can't transition to the NBA"...........

The REAL reason and TRUTH is, that the Euroleague has much better point guards in general, and so the NBA is terrified of touching them, that way they can't come in and tear up the NBA, and in the process expose just how bad the NBA really is these days.

But you can take a 36 year old washed up has been like Prigioni, a scrub from Euroleague like Gary Neal, Goran Dragic, Ricky Rubio, a below average guy from Euroleague like Jose Calderon, and do what you want with them in the NBA.

What if some guy like Jasikevicius or Spanoulis is hell bent on playing in the NBA? OK then........give them a contract and then glue their ass to the bench, and trash them in the media until they get fed up and leave. Then tell everyone they "were not good enough for the vastly superior NBA, and they left with their tail between their legs to go back to the minor league in Europe".

The NBA teams, their announcers, and the NBA related sports media are ALL paid to do this by the NBA.

Eventually, if you really pay attention, you will grasp this.

And if you ever did start to follow the Euroleague and FIBA EuroBasket closely, you would see very quickly that it's a much better quality of basketball than the NBA is.

And in fact, guys like Ricky Rubio, Vassilis Spanoulis, Nenad Krstic, Sarunas Jasikevicius, Juan Carlos Navarro, Larry Bird, Larry Brown, Chris Kaman, Joakim Noah, and Mike Fratello have all basically said it is as well.

And magically..........whenever someone like that says it, you immediately see within 24 hours, where US sports media is flooded with some "interview" from someone that has been involved in both, saying how, "the NBA is vastly superior to the Euroleague".

Always.........like absolute clockwork. The problem is the statements made will conflict with previous or later statements made by the same people. Like how Kirilenko said the NBA was better than Euroleague, when he did an NBA interview, but then when he did a FIBA interview, he said the players in Euroleague were generally just as good as NBA players..........

It's all NBA bullshit marketing.

And you have been falling for it. Maybe now you are just starting to see the light.

And just so you know, THIS and EVERY other American themed basketball forum have NBA employees posting on them, and making tons of posts that push the NBA only marketing themes.

And the NBA related US sports media are paid to push it also, and that includes the NBA draft themed sites. Some of the NBA marketing sites even pose as European or international basketball sites.


What? It's all just one big conspiracy according to Euroleague. Everyone is on it. TRUST NO ONE. THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE.

I guess even Spanoulis is in on it because he had dinner a couple years ago with Kobe Bryant in Greece, and in a presser, said , "who doesn't want to play in the NBA. The best players all play there.."

If you want to verify this, simply type "Kobe has dinner with Spanoulis" on Google and you will see this. I guess Kobe goes to Greece, and convinces Spanoulis to say this stuff.

Beyond ridiculous.

[32MJ32]

Grinder is like the anti-Euroleague (the poster, not the basketball competition)

Thanks for the write on Mirotic, dude

[Grinder]

Grinder is like the anti-Euroleague (the poster, not the basketball competition)

Thanks for the write on Mirotic, dude

No problem. I'm happy to discuss European and international basketball but it's difficult to without the poster Euroleague derailing every discussion about it. :cheers:

[bd#1pguard]

You can sign them for more than the rookie minimum. Mirza Teletovic was an undrafted international free agent and he has a 3 year/$10 million contract with the Nets. I think he was initially offered the MLE until they lowered their offer because of signing Gerald Wallace. Alexey Shved is on a similar contract.



You're talking about Dubljevic right? I like his game but he's not that similar to Pekovic. You guys have a great team for such a small country. I like Nikola Ivanovic as well.





I think the Blazers have Printezis' draft rights. He'd be a great fit in the NBA. Lorbek was close to joining the Spurs this past year but it'll be hard to get him. He plays on a great club in a beautiful city and makes a lot of money in a featured role. No team would sign Lavrinovic. He's past his prime.

Llull's draft rights are owned by the Rockets, they paid a pretty penny for it too, but it's hard to believe he'll leave Real Madrid and I think he's locked into a long term contract.

montenegro has the hottest women as well.

[duskovujosevic]

considering montengro,

vladimir mihailovic could be potential NBA player

[Djetic]

considering montengro,

vladimir mihailovic could be potential NBA player
He was fine once, but after injury everything went downhill for him,lost his confidence but he got crazy athleticism which is unusual for our classic guard player, coaches are just clueless about teaching him using that ability on a right way.Not to mention Radonjic slowed his progress and was doing that too with Ivanovic, guy is book example of guard killer coach.

About women comment, you should come visit us in few months to experience wild beauty :D Its amazing to come over in summer.Tourists usually complain about them being very tall for average women, but Montenegro is known as tallest nation in Europe, hell i am 194cm tall which is something about 6'4 and i know at least 3 ppl taller than me in my neighbourhood :D

[Kblaze8855]

With all the money floating around it may be time to look into this again.

When we pay guys nobody ever heard of Tom Brady money....isnt there some elite player in europe worth giving 40 million?

Some of the best bigmen in europe make 2 million bucks a year. Mosgov would not be the best center in europe.

I saw the Hawks signed one guy from the all euroleague first team...who came home only to find his brother had been shot(hes from Baltimore).

Is he it?

Are NBA teams not willing to throw this tv money at perfectly good euroleague players now that they can afford to blow away their pay over there and hardly feel it?