Melo is averaging 4rpg, 1apg, and shooting 40% in this series.

[longhornfan1234]

:roll: :roll:

[Psycho]

Yeah, too bad Melo doesn't statpad. Then b1tches like you would defend him on internet message boards.

[kNicKz]

So the best scorer in the league this year should pass more?

I understand jacking 3s in game 5 was a disgrace, but c'mon son. Troll harder, no one expects him to pass the ball. That's what point guards are for

[DaSeba5]

Yeah, too bad Melo doesn't statpad. Then b1tches like you would defend him on internet message boards.

Stat padders are more efficient and win games. If the player is stat padding, they are winning the game obviously. If a player has to chuck up shots to carry his team, they are not.

This has nothing to do with LeBron/Melo. Just speaking in general.

[Levity]

Stat padders are more efficient and win games. If the player is stat padding, they are winning the game obviously.


Kevin Love and the 2011-2012 Timberwolves beg to differ.

[NumberSix]

Melo is a good player. Not great, but solidly good. That's all he's ever been.

People have always tried to put him in the tier of the LeBron's, the Kobe's, the Wade's, but he's never been that. He's more in line with the Joe Johnson's, the Carlos Boozer's and the Blake Griffin's.

[OldSkoolball#52]

So the best scorer in the league this year should pass more?



The best scorer in the league isn't playing in this series. Just the highest scorer.

Intelligent fans know the difference.

[LikeABosh]

So the best scorer in the league this year should pass more?

I understand jacking 3s in game 5 was a disgrace, but c'mon son. Troll harder, no one expects him to pass the ball. That's what point guards are for
23 shots per game on 38% shooting, yes he should pass more. :oldlol:

[DaSeba5]

Kevin Love and the 2011-2012 Timberwolves beg to differ.

Well it's not like that team was great. Love's numbers had an impact on games. Rebounds, assists, and points still impact a game even if they are stat padding. It's better than relying on your shots only.

[leMVP]

He's just chucking and chocking

[kNicKz]

The best scorer in the league isn't playing in this series. Just the highest scorer.

Intelligent fans know the difference.

http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.4356470.1356228173!/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.JPG

click click click

[outbreak]

Melo is a good player. Not great, but solidly good. That's all he's ever been.

People have always tried to put him in the tier of the LeBron's, the Kobe's, the Wade's, but he's never been that. He's more in line with the Joe Johnson's, the Carlos Boozer's and the Blake Griffin's.
While I rate him higher then jj, boozer and griffin, I agree with you. He isn't a guy who will carry a team through the play offs. Until they start treating him like that and not expecting him to take every possession they won't have play off success.They need the balls to tell melo that he isn't allowed to iso every single play and if he is going to be forced into a tough shot check if anyone else is open first.

[HomieWeMajor]

Stat padders are more efficient and win games. If the player is stat padding, they are winning the game obviously. If a player has to chuck up shots to carry his team, they are not.

This has nothing to do with LeBron/Melo. Just speaking in general.
Nah

[kNicKz]

23 shots per game on 38% shooting, yes he should pass more. :oldlol:

False. He should stop taking threes and attack the rim, if that fails then he should post up. Who should he have passed to in game 5? JR Smith?

[The-Legend-24]

1apg? :oldlol:

And lol @ best scorer in the league, everybody knows that's Durant.

[DaSeba5]

Nah

Not always, but I mean if somebody is padding their stats they are leaving an impact on the game more. I don't mean somebody carrying a bad team and trying to get stats. I mean like having 10 assists and 8 rebounds with 30 points helps the team more staying in the game, then somebody who relies on shooting only.

[che guevara]

False. He should stop taking threes and attack the rim, if that fails then he should post up. Who should he have passed to in game 5? JR Smith?
If Melo could make a layup, then maybe. But he's an awful finisher at the rim, I don't know if I've ever seen somebody blow easy layups more frequently. He's 12-25 at the rim in this series. :oldlol:


False. He should stop taking threes and attack the rim, if that fails then he should post up. Who should he have passed to in game 5? JR Smith?
Maybe Felton? You know, the best Knick player in this series?

[HomieWeMajor]

Not always, but I mean if somebody is padding their stats they are leaving an impact on the game more. I don't mean somebody carrying a bad team and trying to get stats. I mean like having 10 assists and 8 rebounds with 30 points helps the team more staying in the game, then somebody who relies on shooting only.
I hear that

[tpols]

Damn.. That's pathetic.

Brook lopez>Melo.

[FiveRings]

Haha and Knicks fans facepalmed me when I said Melo is not better than D-Wade. When's the last time Wade averaged 1 apg in a series?

Do Knicks fans still think they can compete with Miami? :lol

[russwest0]

Best scorer? LOL. Look at the box score of KD's last two games. He was double teamed all game and put up those numbers

[DetroitPistonFan]

Melo is a inefficient ball hogging chucker. More than Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter.

[DMAVS41]

Melo is a good player. Not great, but solidly good. That's all he's ever been.

People have always tried to put him in the tier of the LeBron's, the Kobe's, the Wade's, but he's never been that. He's more in line with the Joe Johnson's, the Carlos Boozer's and the Blake Griffin's.

He is definitely better than Griffin, Boozer, and Joe Johnson...but I agree with the point you were trying to make.

[Hoopz2332]

Melo being the best scorer in the game is laughable to begin with. Give me eff and potent scoring over aesthetics any day

[Mr. Incredible]

Melo going to be Melo.

[OldSkoolball#52]

He is definitely better than Griffin, Boozer, and Joe Johnson...but I agree with the point you were trying to make.

No he's not.

You think this because in your mind there's a natural tendency to compare them with the assumption each one is at his best. You aren't taking into account how often Melo can be a liability, which the other guys are not.

If you were to make each guy a line on a graph, Melo would have higher peaks, but he'd also have deeper valleys. It'd average out to about the same.

Marc Gasol is a more valuable player overall than Carmelo. You need to look at the whole game and not just individual scoring totals.

[DMAVS41]

I really like Melo...and his game, but this more par for the course.

He shoots 41.8% for his career in the playoffs. That just isn't good enough...but especially not when you dominate the ball and jack it up 22 or 23 times a night like he has in his prime in the playoffs.

And you can't average less than 3 assists per game when you dominate the ball like that.

It's not winning basketball unless he gets that efficiency way up. I hope he does...because the Knicks could pose some problems and make the East interesting.

[DMAVS41]

No he's not.

You think this because in your mind there's a natural tendency to compare them with the assumption each one is at his best. You aren't taking into account how often Melo can be a liability, which the other guys are not.

If you were to make each guy a line on a graph, Melo would have higher peaks, but he'd also have deeper valleys. It'd average out to about the same.

Marc Gasol is a more valuable player overall than Carmelo. You need to look at the whole game and not just individual scoring totals.

I actually agree about Marc Gasol (or it is at least a debate...but the other guys just aren't as good as Melo)...but I think Marc Gasol is definitely better than those other 3 guys.

So I don't see your point at all. Boozer, Griffin, and JJ are just not as good as Melo.

Marc Gasol is a different story mate.

[kNicKz]

Marc Gasol is a more valuable player overall than Carmelo

:coleman:

[chazzy]

What makes Joe Johnson better than Melo :wtf:

[DMAVS41]

What makes Joe Johnson better than Melo :wtf:

Nothing. People have to go to extremes...just because Melo is over-rated...does not mean he's on the same level as Boozer/JJ...that is just madness.

[NumberSix]

I actually agree about Marc Gasol (or it is at least a debate...but the other guys just aren't as good as Melo)...but I think Marc Gasol is definitely better than those other 3 guys.

So I don't see your point at all. Boozer, Griffin, and JJ are just not as good as Melo.

Marc Gasol is a different story mate.
To be fair, I never explicitly claimed Melo was worse than those players. Just that he's in the same general tier of players they are in. Just as Griffin is definitely better than Boozer, they're still within the same tier.

[DMAVS41]

To be fair, I never explicitly claimed Melo was worse than those players. Just that he's in the same general tier of players they are in.

Yea, but he's not in their tier. He's definitely in a higher tier than those guys. Definitely.

[NumberSix]

Yea, but he's not in their tier. He's definitely in a higher tier than those guys. Definitely.
Debatable. Depends how loosely or tightly you want categorize tiers.

[Psycho]

To be fair, I never explicitly claimed Melo was worse than those players. Just that he's in the same general tier of players they are in. Just as Griffin is definitely better than Boozer, they're still within the same tier.

:wtf: Boozer and Griffin are not in the same tier. :facepalm

[NumberSix]

:wtf: Boozer and Griffin are not in the same tier. :facepalm
See the above post

[OldSkoolball#52]

So I don't see your point at all. Boozer, Griffin, and JJ are just not as good as Melo.



Well Joe Johnson, no. He's not as good as the other three.

But Boozer and Griffin are.

Frankly, a lot of guys in this league are on the same level as Carmelo for the simple fact of knowing when NOT to shoot, and doing other things that contribute. Boozer and Griffin are both very good rebounders. Both pass the ball well. In fact Boozer averages the same number of assists per 14 shots taken that Carmelo does per 22 shots taken. Carmelo is a volume scoring shot jacker who is, to be frank, still dumb and immature. He's just a dumb person/player. Period.

Again, there are nights when Carmelo is a LIABILITY to his team. There are only a handful of guys in the league who play meaningful minutes that that can be said about. Those guys are all volume scorers and inherently overrated. If you go and look at adjusted stats, it always bears that out. Carmelo's impact on wins and losses is not equal to what most peoples impression is of him based on his "skills" scoring the basketball. Ball movement puts the ball in the basket just as often as volume chuckers. The Nuggets have finished with a better record in the west than he has with the knicks in the east both years since he left.

Griffin and Boozer are good, quality players, but clearly not studs. Just like Carmelo. Carmelo is not a stud. Lebron James is a stud. Dirk Nowitzki was a stud in the playoffs two years ago. Parker was a stud this year.

I don't know what you think makes Carmelo Anthony a tier above Griffin and Boozer.

[DMAVS41]

Debatable. Depends how loosely or tightly you want categorize tiers.

If we, as a basketball community, can't come to agreement that Carmelo Anthony is definitely better than the likes of Griffin, JJ, and Boozer...then debating anything is pointless.

:wtf:

[Scoooter]

You have to define "better" better.

[NumberSix]

If we, as a basketball community, can't come to agreement that Carmelo Anthony is definitely better than the likes of Griffin, JJ, and Boozer...then debating anything is pointless.

:wtf:
I never said he wasn't.

LeBron is DEFINITELY better than Durant. They're still in the same tier.

[DMAVS41]

Well Joe Johnson, no. He's not as good as the other three.

But Boozer and Griffin are.

Frankly, a lot of guys in this league are on the same level as Carmelo for the simple fact of knowing when NOT to shoot, and doing other things that contribute. Boozer and Griffin are both very good rebounders. Both pass the ball well. In fact Boozer averages the same number of assists per 14 shots taken that Carmelo does per 22 shots taken. Carmelo is a volume scoring shot jacker who is, to be frank, still dumb and immature. He's just a dumb person/player. Period.

Again, there are nights when Carmelo is a LIABILITY to his team. There are only a handful of guys in the league who play meaningful minutes that that can be said about. Those guys are all volume scorers and inherently overrated. If you go and look at adjusted stats, it always bears that out. Carmelo's impact on wins and losses is not equal to what most peoples impression is of him based on his "skills" scoring the basketball. Ball movement puts the ball in the basket just as often as volume chuckers. The Nuggets have finished with a better record in the west than he has with the knicks in the east both years since he left.

Griffin and Boozer are good, quality players, but clearly not studs. Just like Carmelo. Carmelo is not a stud. Lebron James is a stud. Dirk Nowitzki was a stud in the playoffs two years ago. Parker was a stud this year.

I don't know what you think makes Carmelo Anthony a tier above Griffin and Boozer.

There are games in which Boozer and Griffin are also liabilities. Melo makes the other team develop entire game plans around stopping him. Griffin and Boozer are afterthoughts....and afterthoughts that both struggle defensively and have limited games as well.

And Marc Gasol is not clearly better than Melo either.

I get the point you and the other guy are trying to make, but please...listing the likes of JJ/Griffin/Boozer are just really bad examples. Terrible really...

[OldSkoolball#52]

If we, as a basketball community, can't come to agreement that Carmelo Anthony is definitely better than the likes of Griffin, JJ, and Boozer...then debating anything is pointless.

:wtf:


I've seen you over rate Kobe, and for the exact same reasons you are overrating Carmelo.

He is not "responsible" for the Knicks have a good season this year. He was one guy who was part of a successful team. Boozer and Griffin were the same way. Carmelo Anthony is not some big difference maker. He's just not. He just makes more highlights than other guys because out of all the factors that contirbute to winning a basketball game, scoring happens to be the one that gets the most attention on sports center.

[kNicKz]

I've seen you over rate Kobe, and for the exact same reasons you are overrating Carmelo.

He is not "responsible" for the Knicks have a good season this year. He was one guy who was part of a successful team. Boozer and Griffin were the same way. Carmelo Anthony is not some big difference maker. He's just not. He just makes more highlights than other guys because out of all the factors that contirbute to winning a basketball game, scoring happens to be the one that gets the most attention on sports center.

april 2013

obvious alt

:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

I never said he wasn't.

LeBron is DEFINITELY better than Durant. They're still in the same tier.

Are there 25 players in your tier in which all these guys are in? That isn't a tier.

If you put Melo and JJ in the same tier....you are listing like 30 plus players. Honestly...where does Joe Johnson rank in the NBA in terms of the best players.

Is he top 40?

[Leftimage]

If we, as a basketball community, can't come to agreement that Carmelo Anthony is definitely better than the likes of Griffin, JJ, and Boozer...then debating anything is pointless.

:wtf:

For the sake of simplicity let's just all agree he is the 10th to 15th best player in the league.

[NumberSix]

Are there 25 players in your tier in which all these guys are in? That isn't a tier.

If you put Melo and JJ in the same tier....you are listing like 30 plus players. Honestly...where does Joe Johnson rank in the NBA in terms of the best players.

Is he top 40?
I think it's fair. Basic A player, B players, C player, etc.

It's fair enough. It's not it a real ranking system or anything.

As for JJ. Yeah, I'd say he's a top 40 player in the NBA.

[secund2nun]

Yea, but he's not in their tier. He's definitely in a higher tier than those guys. Definitely.

Imo he is in the same tier as Boozer etc. Melo, like Rose, is unfairly getting all of the credit for his team which mainly wins with team defense which he has nothing to do with in an attempt to artificially create a "superstar" with hype to generating ratings in a big market.

[OldSkoolball#52]

There are games in which Boozer and Griffin are also liabilities. Melo makes the other team develop entire game plans around stopping him. Griffin and Boozer are afterthoughts....and afterthoughts that both struggle defensively and have limited games as well.

And Marc Gasol is not clearly better than Melo either.

I get the point you and the other guy are trying to make, but please...listing the likes of JJ/Griffin/Boozer are just really bad examples. Terrible really...


Carmelo is more talented than Boozer and Griffin. He SHOULD be easily a better player. But the way he plays, his low IQ basketball, compromises his overall impact.

I'm telling you man. The adjusted numbers ALWAYS reveal that guys like Carmelo do not nearly have the impact that most people think they do. They basically take shots that end up giving them credit for what the rest of the team could have done easily by moving the ball. And where is his impact in the other aspects? It's negligible. So therefore he's really not a huge difference maker.

Not everyone can pass and defend like Marc Gasol. The team itself can't compensate for having a guy like him being able to pass and defend from the post. The team itself can compensate for guys like Carmelo shooting 44%. That's just a fact. Plain and simple.

People who act like adjusted stats are worthless just hate them because it exposes their favorite player. They dont tell the whole story, but they tell more of it than raw stats. Carmelo is one of the players who sees the biggest drop from raw stats to adjusted stats. He's a really overrated player.

[DMAVS41]

I've seen you over rate Kobe, and for the exact same reasons you are overrating Carmelo.

He is not "responsible" for the Knicks have a good season this year. He was one guy who was part of a successful team. Boozer and Griffin were the same way. Carmelo Anthony is not some big difference maker. He's just not. He just makes more highlights than other guys because out of all the factors that contirbute to winning a basketball game, scoring happens to be the one that gets the most attention on sports center.

Just to get this straight. You are using "highlights" as the reason Melo is known to be an elite player...and then turning around and talking about Griffin.

Is there a player in the league that benefits more from highlights than Griffin?

WTF are you talking about?

Yea...Kobe wasn't the driving force on the Lakers. They looked great without him against the Spurs...and their offense was amazing.

I've now heard it all. Melo is on the same tier as Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.

[DMAVS41]

I think it's fair. Basic A player, B players, C player, etc.

It's fair enough. It's not it a real ranking system or anything.

As for JJ. Yeah, I'd say he's a top 40 player in the NBA.

And where you do rank Melo? Let's say JJ is the 35th best player in the league...that honestly is probably high, but for argument sake that is fine.

Where does Melo rank for you?

[secund2nun]

There are games in which Boozer and Griffin are also liabilities. Melo makes the other team develop entire game plans around stopping him. Griffin and Boozer are afterthoughts....and afterthoughts that both struggle defensively and have limited games as well.

And Marc Gasol is not clearly better than Melo either.

I get the point you and the other guy are trying to make, but please...listing the likes of JJ/Griffin/Boozer are just really bad examples. Terrible really...

Marc Gasol is easily better than Melo. Volume low efficiency no defense chuckers like Melo are extremely overrated.

[DMAVS41]

Carmelo is more talented than Boozer and Griffin. He SHOULD be easily a better player. But the way he plays, his low IQ basketball, compromises his overall impact.

I'm telling you man. The adjusted numbers ALWAYS reveal that guys like Carmelo do not nearly have the impact that most people think they do. They basically take shots that end up giving them credit for what the rest of the team could have done easily by moving the ball. And where is his impact in the other aspects? It's negligible. So therefore he's really not a huge difference maker.

Not everyone can pass and defend like Marc Gasol. The team itself can't compensate for having a guy like him being able to pass and defend from the post. The team itself can compensate for guys like Carmelo shooting 44%. That's just a fact. Plain and simple.

People who act like adjusted stats are worthless just hate them because it exposes their favorite player. They dont tell the whole story, but they tell more of it than raw stats. Carmelo is one of the players who sees the biggest drop from raw stats to adjusted stats. He's a really overrated player.

I agree he is over-rated...but that doesn't make guys like Boozer and JJ and Griffin as good as him.

And you keep using Marc Gasol...why? He does things those other guys don't. Like actually defend and pass the ball well...etc.

Wow...April 2013 has never been more appropriate.

[DMAVS41]

Marc Gasol is easily better than Melo. Volume low efficiency no defense chuckers like Melo are extremely overrated.

I wouldn't argue too much over that one....certainly more reasonable than Boozer/Griffin/JJ:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[NumberSix]

Just to get this straight. You are using "highlights" as the reason Melo is known to be an elite player...and then turning around and talking about Griffin.

Is there a player in the league that benefits more from highlights than Griffin?

WTF are you talking about?

Yea...Kobe wasn't the driving force on the Lakers. They looked great without him against the Spurs...and their offense was amazing.

I've now heard it all. Melo is on the same tier as Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.
Not really an honest comparison. The Spurs are a great team. It's not like the Lakers WITH Kobe this season were routinely beating quality opponents. Kobe-less Lakers beat the spurs before the playoffs. Doesn't mean anything. Lakers would have been swept with or without Kobe.

[secund2nun]

Just to get this straight. You are using "highlights" as the reason Melo is known to be an elite player...and then turning around and talking about Griffin.

Is there a player in the league that benefits more from highlights than Griffin?

WTF are you talking about?

Yea...Kobe wasn't the driving force on the Lakers. They looked great without him against the Spurs...and their offense was amazing.

I've now heard it all. Melo is on the same tier as Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer.

You are really overrating scoring. I value scoring, but high efficiency scoring. Melo's low efficiency scoring is useless and often times destructive, not to mention his bad D.

LA looked about as bad this playoffs as they did the last 2 playoffs when Kobe played including getting swept by Dallas. SA would have swept them with Kobe as well just like Dallas did 2 years ago or how OKC did in 5 last season to LA.

[Psycho]

I wouldn't argue too much over that one....certainly more reasonable than Boozer/Griffin/JJ:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I think you are underrating Griffin. He developed a nice post game and has been a great passer/improved defender this year. I wouldn't call comparing him to Melo absurd (although Melo is clearly better), while I would consider comparing Melo to JJ/Boozer laughable.

[Psycho]

You are really overrating scoring. I value scoring, but high efficiency scoring. Melo's low efficiency scoring is useless and often times destructive, not to mention his bad D.

LA looked about as bad this playoffs as they did the last 2 playoffs when Kobe played including getting swept by Dallas. SA would have swept them with Kobe as well just like Dallas did 2 years ago or how OKC did in 5 last season to LA.

Maybe Melo's efficiency is destructive if you're comparing him to Lebron. But if you are comparing Melo's efficiency to the efficiency to the Knick's without Melo, then Melo's contested 3s are much more efficient over the long haul than Raymond Felton creating for the team.

Team's have to shoot the ball eventually, and if no one can create a good shot, having a guy like Melo is a huge asset.

[chazzy]

Not really an honest comparison. The Spurs are a great team. It's not like the Lakers WITH Kobe this season were routinely beating quality opponents. Kobe-less Lakers beat the spurs before the playoffs. Doesn't mean anything. Lakers would have been swept with or without Kobe.
They were 26-12 with Kobe to close the season and started playing legit defense once Dwight got healthier. Their offense was top 6-8 all year and plummeted to some of the worst Laker offenses in recent time without him after his injury. Definitely not a guaranteed sweep with him.

[DMAVS41]

You are really overrating scoring. I value scoring, but high efficiency scoring. Melo's low efficiency scoring is useless and often times destructive, not to mention his bad D.

LA looked about as bad this playoffs as they did the last 2 playoffs when Kobe played including getting swept by Dallas. SA would have swept them with Kobe as well just like Dallas did 2 years ago or how OKC did in 5 last season to LA.

But you are comparing him to other guys that have just as many weaknesses and don't demand the kind of attention Melo does.

JJ is less efficient and scores much less...8 point less per game in the playoffs I think. What does JJ do that puts him on the same tier as Melo? The answer is nothing.

Boozer is a nice complimentary piece, but he's not the caliber of player Melo is. And if you are going to use Melo's defense...Boozer is hardly a great defender himself. All Boozer does well on defense is rebound.

Griffin is easily the best player out of the 3 you guys have mentioned...and even then Melo is clearly the better player right now. You talk about efficiency? Griffin is shooting 44% in the playoffs this year. And his rebounding is just not good either. He can't stretch the floor and he's an average defender at best. He does nothing to make other teams scared and game plan around.

I totally agree that Melo is over-rated...been saying it for years. But don't over correct and start comparing him to players that he is clearly better than.

[secund2nun]

They were 26-12 with Kobe to close the season and started playing legit defense once Dwight got healthier. Their offense was top 6-8 all year and plummeted to some of the worst Laker offenses in recent time without him after his injury. Definitely not a guaranteed sweep with him.

Most of those wins came against subpar teams also that was a regular season. They lose in 4-5 with Kobe to the Spurs (most likely 4 games). They got destroyed with Kobe in 5 last year by OKC and in 4 by Dallas in 2011.

[secund2nun]

Maybe Melo's efficiency is destructive if you're comparing him to Lebron. But if you are comparing Melo's efficiency to the efficiency to the Knick's without Melo, then Melo's contested 3s are much more efficient over the long haul than Raymond Felton creating for the team.

Team's have to shoot the ball eventually, and if no one can create a good shot, having a guy like Melo is a huge asset.

I'd say its just destructive period. I'd rather just play team ball and go from there instead of forcing the offense through a player who is not good enough to have it forced through. If he were Lebron or Durant then you can force the offense through them, but not Melo.

[secund2nun]

But you are comparing him to other guys that have just as many weaknesses and don't demand the kind of attention Melo does.

JJ is less efficient and scores much less...8 point less per game in the playoffs I think. What does JJ do that puts him on the same tier as Melo? The answer is nothing.

Boozer is a nice complimentary piece, but he's not the caliber of player Melo is. And if you are going to use Melo's defense...Boozer is hardly a great defender himself. All Boozer does well on defense is rebound.

Griffin is easily the best player out of the 3 you guys have mentioned...and even then Melo is clearly the better player right now. You talk about efficiency? Griffin is shooting 44% in the playoffs this year. And his rebounding is just not good either. He can't stretch the floor and he's an average defender at best. He does nothing to make other teams scared and game plan around.

I totally agree that Melo is over-rated...been saying it for years. But don't over correct and start comparing him to players that he is clearly better than.

In terms of those players I do believe Melo is a tier above JJ, but I put him in the same tier as Boozer and Griffin. Even if he is better than those 2 I don't think he has shown anything to be a tier above them.

Blake has been shooting poorly this series, but he is going up against the DPOY and is getting beat up by z-bo. Blake shot 54% in the regular season and 55% last season. Also he shot 53% in the playoffs vs memphis last year.

I'd rather take Blake over Melo because Blake is a better complimentary player so yes I consider him a better player. Melo is in no man's land. He is not good enough to be the man and have the offense centered around him, but his style and bad habits make him a terrible complementary player as he will just jack many shots up and disrupt the offense and his scoring has low efficiency and the only other thing he can do aside from low efficiency scoring is rebound. Blake is a decent rebounder, passer, can give you a decent amount of points on pretty good efficiency.

[chazzy]

How can you say Melo and Boozer are in the same tier with a straight face? Maybe if you're only basing it on the past 5 games..

[DMAVS41]

In terms of those players I do believe Melo is a tier above JJ, but I put him in the same tier as Boozer and Griffin. Even if he is better than those 2 I don't think he has shown anything to be a tier above them.

Blake has been shooting poorly this series, but he is going up against the DPOY and is getting beat up by z-bo. Blake shot 54% in the regular season and 55% last season. Also he shot 53% in the playoffs vs memphis last year.

I'd rather take Blake over Melo because Blake is a better complimentary player so yes I consider him a better player. Melo is in no man's land. He is not good enough to be the man and have the offense centered around him, but his style and bad habits make him a terrible complementary player as he will just jack many shots up and disrupt the offense and his scoring has low efficiency and the only other thing he can do aside from low efficiency scoring is rebound. Blake is a decent rebounder, passer, can give you a decent amount of points on pretty good efficiency.

Griffin is certainly the closest to Melo in that group, but I also think a lot of what you say about Melo might change with an elite playmaker like Paul on his team.

And if we are talking about the past. Melo had a very nice playoff run in 2009 on good efficiency overall.

Yes...I also have said that Melo can't be the best player on a title winning team. But I wouldn't take it as far as you do...D-Rose and Melo would make a pretty lethal combo similar to Westbrook and Durant...and I certainly think that pairing, along with the right supporting cast...could challenge for the title.

[aj1987]

30 points on 27 shots at 38%. GOAT scorer.

[Element]

You guys...overreacting to every bad game

The first 3 games Melo was averaging something like 35ppg @ 56 TS%. Now he has two bad shooting nights and he's awful? I'm betting he wont't stay cold for 3 straight games. Not him.

[Crafty]

30 points on 27 shots at 38%. GOAT scorer.
Mvp stuff right here

[3LiftHeatCurse]

146 shots on 6 assists for melo

[maybeshewill13]

Typical Melo, nothing to see here.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

You guys...overreacting to every bad game

The first 3 games Melo was averaging something like 35ppg @ 56 TS%. Now he has two bad shooting nights and he's awful? I'm betting he wont't stay cold for 3 straight games. Not him.

That's how it is until you prove yourself. Usually takes a championship, or a really dominant consistent run.

[f0und]

Mvp stuff right here

didnt iverson win an MVP with similar numbers?

[Crafty]

didnt iverson win an MVP with similar numbers?
31.4 ppg on 40% with 5.5 apg

[chips93]

I'd say its just destructive period. I'd rather just play team ball and go from there instead of forcing the offense through a player who is not good enough to have it forced through. If he were Lebron or Durant then you can force the offense through them, but not Melo.

team ball is kinda overrated imo

the most unselfish, best passing team in the league (the spurs), still has to lean pretty heavily on parker, ginobili (less this year) and duncan to get the defense out of position.

[klee]

The sad thing is, when he does show up, no one says a word.

[Dro]

This is Melo, this is what he does. You can see guys motivation dwindle when he just dribbles around and hoists up a shot...People who play with ballhogs in real life would understand. Even if he is scoring everytime, nobody else can get a rhythm so of course they will clank shots when they finally get them and will give less effort on defense, less help defense, more uncontested drives to the hoop, less diving for loose balls, less making the extra pass...Why make the extra pass if you know it will just stick when it gets in Melo's hands?

[jzek]

146 shots on 6 assists for melo

No way this is true. :no: That's... just... unheard of!

[Dro]

team ball is kinda overrated imo

the most unselfish, best passing team in the league (the spurs), still has to lean pretty heavily on parker, ginobili (less this year) and duncan to get the defense out of position.
The difference is, if you move the ball, run some plays, set some screens and THEN get it back, the defense will be moving and out of position, giving you a cleaner look. With Melo, he gets the ball, dribbles, dribbles, and either hoists up a contested jumper or passes to someone like Shumpert who gives it right back WITHOUT much player movement, screens being set or anything. Thats the difference I see when watching the Knicks and Spurs. Even Miami has great ball movement even if it does end up back in Lebron's hands, he's moved the defense, maybe caused a switch, now they have mismatches...I don't see the Knicks do any of these, I never see them create mismatches. There offense is Melo, JR Smith and everyone else. Even when Felton scores, it feels like he's tired of not getting shots and just makes up his mind and forces his way to the basket or just pulls up and shoot a three. None of the Knicks scoring seems like its predicated on true ball movement or a truly effective offensive system and that is why I don't think they can beat defenses like Miami or Indiana in a playoff series. If Rondo was healthy, they would not even beat Boston because of Boston's defense.

[GOBB]

His game is scoring. Not sure why people look into stats so intensely. If Lebrom James avg a triple double while being efficient only to get swept from a playoff series? Your stat argument changes and isnt consistent at all.

"stat whore"
"stat padding"
"only cares about stats *insert bron t shirt photo*"
"no killer instinct, not a winner"

I'm sure I'm leaving other stuff out. But now the stats dont matter. Here we ave Carmelo and you guys want certain stat criteria met. Is Carmelo arguably the best scorer? Yes. Has his scoring helped the NYK? Yes. He gets paid to score.

Now how he chooses to score in games can without a doubt be questioned. Much like the jacking up ill advised 3's. When in reality he cant be guarded in the post. I know I know if he avg more assists then his teammates would get involved and score. Thus helping NYK win. Carmelo has never been the playmaker where his assists are creating the kind of scoring opportunities that open up an offense. He's no Lebron. He's not facilitating the offense.

Better shot selection?
More work on the low block given his size/strength/low post ability?

Yes those are things he needs to improve which were clearly missing the last 2 games NYK lost.

[chips93]

The difference is, if you move the ball, run some plays, set some screens and THEN get it back, the defense will be moving and out of position, giving you a cleaner look. With Melo, he gets the ball, dribbles, dribbles, and either hoists up a contested jumper or passes to someone like Shumpert who gives it right back WITHOUT much player movement, screens being set or anything.Thats the difference I see when watching the Knicks and Spurs. Even Miami has great ball movement even if it does end up back in Lebron's hands, he's moved the defense, maybe caused a switch, now they have mismatches...I don't see the Knicks do any of these, I never see them create mismatches. There offense is Melo, JR Smith and everyone else. Even when Felton scores, it feels like he's tired of not getting shots and just makes up his mind and forces his way to the basket or just pulls up and shoot a three. None of the Knicks scoring seems like its predicated on true ball movement or a truly effective offensive system and that is why I don't think they can beat defenses like Miami or Indiana in a playoff series. If Rondo was healthy, they would not even beat Boston because of Boston's defense.

yeah, i mean i agree, if the knicks could utilise melo, with ball movement, that would be ideal.

but the guy i quoted said that they would be better off without melo. if you are running plays, you still need some playmaker to create opening, that good ball movement can take advantage of.

you still need that catalyst, and without melo, the knicks wouldnt have that catalyst.

[Dro]

His game is scoring. Not sure why people look into stats so intensely. If Lebrom James avg a triple double while being efficient only to get swept from the NBA Finals? Your stat argument changes and isnt consistent at all.

"stat whore"
"stat padding"
"only cares about stats *insert bron t shirt photo*"
"no killer instinct, not a winner"

I'm sure I'm leaving other stuff out. But now the stats dont matter. Here we ave Carmelo and you guys want certain stat criteria met. Is Carmelo arguably the best scorer? Yes. Has his scoring helped the NYK? Yes. He gets paid to score.

Now how he chooses to score in games can without a doubt be questioned. Much like the jacking up ill advised 3's. When in reality he cant be guarded in the post. I know I know if he avg more assists then his teammates would get involved and score. Thus helping NYK win. Carmelo has never been the playmaker where his assists are creating the kind of scoring opportunities that open up an offense. He's no Lebron. He's not facilitating the offense.

Better shot selection?
More work on the low block given his size/strength/low post ability?

Yes those are things he needs to improve which were clearly missing the last 2 games NYK lost.
Its not about the stats, its about the style of play which will result in him having higher stats in certain areas. Its more about the style of play being reflected in his stats rather than just being about stats and ignoring whether their style of play is working or not. To me, their style just does not work in the long term but I guess thats still yet to proven. Hell, maybe they'll win the championship for all we know. Time will tell...

[Dro]

yeah, i mean i agree, if the knicks could utilise melo, with ball movement, that would be ideal.

but the guy i quoted said that they would be better off without melo. if you are running plays, you still need some playmaker to create opening, that good ball movement can take advantage of.

you still need that catalyst, and without melo, the knicks wouldnt have that catalyst.
Well yeah, I agree with that. Suggesting they would be better without melo is ridiculous. What I don't get is that in college, Melo proved to be a great all around player, able to pass, rebound, and defend, but in the NBA he is mainly just a scorer and not even an efficient scorer.

[chosen_wun]

146 shots on 6 assists for melo
:biggums: :wtf:

Kobe would at least have 6 assists in one of these games...let alone 6 for a series..

[GOBB]

Its not about the stats, its about the style of play which will result in him having higher stats in certain areas. Its more about the style of play being reflected in his stats rather than just being about stats and ignoring whether their style of play is working or not. To me, their style just does not work in the long term but I guess thats still yet to proven. Hell, maybe they'll win the championship for all we know. Time will tell...

NYK are lucky Rondo is injured or they wouldnt be getting past the first rd. And I agree the style of play doesnt work long term. Atleast thats how I see it.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

:biggums: :wtf:

Kobe would at least have 6 assists in one of these games...let alone 6 for a series..

Kobe would have at least 20 asissts by now. Kobe will have games with 1 or 2 assists, but then the next one he will get 5 or 6.

Melo is taking chucking to a whole new level.

[Dro]

146 shots on 6 assists for melo
Wow. what? This can't be true. A player who has the ball as much as him should get 6 assists by accident in 1-2 games, let alone 5:lol

[LikeABosh]

Carmelo is what Kobe haters make him out to be

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well both Carmelo and KD(poor man's Carmelo) are one-dimensional players, they need to score to be effective. When they are scoring on high efficiency, their teammates also get better open looks. When their shots aint falling, theres little they can do to help the team.

[jrong]

Carmelo's game brings to mind the unofficial definition of insanity. How is it possible that he repeats the same actions over and over (i.e. plays the same way) and expects a different result?

Is it because he had success playing that way in college and high school?

I don't know how he can look at his numbers and feel like he's playing well. Does he not look past the 30 ppg and see the 39% shooting and 1.3 apg?

How can he just chuck and chuck and chuck and ball-stop and ball-stop and ball-stop, and think that he's taking the Knicks anywhere? And how can Knicks fans think that he's ever going to take them anywhere?

[NumberSix]

Using 65 possessions to put up 28 points isn't good basketball

[retaxis]

funny thing is, celtics don't even play good defence. Wait till they face the pacers or heat

[tontoz]

Well both Carmelo and KD(poor man's Carmelo) are one-dimensional players, they need to score to be effective. When they are scoring on high efficiency, their teammates also get better open looks. When their shots aint falling, theres little they can do to help the team.


That is just dumb. Carmelo is a poor man's KD. KD had the best scoring efficiency of any small forward this season.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf/sort/trueShootingPct

In the playoffs KD is averaging 33/8/6 shooting 48.6% from the field and averaging 10.6 MADE free throws per game.

[NumberSix]

That is just dumb. Carmelo is a poor man's KD. KD had the best scoring efficiency of any small forward this season.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf/sort/trueShootingPct

In the playoffs KD is averaging 33/8/6 shooting 48.6% from the field and averaging 10.6 MADE free throws per game.
No he didn't. LeBron did.

[GOBB]

tontoz ur dumb for even playing to that worthless poster. Give him no more text.

[28renyoy]

No he didn't. LeBron did.

No he didn't. Durant did. idiot

[tontoz]

No he didn't. LeBron did.


Do you need instructions on how to click on a link? :facepalm

[Psycho]

No he didn't. Durant did. idiot

Lebron:

eFG .603
TS .640

Durant:

eFG .559
TS .647

I'm taking Lebron here.

[chosen_wun]

Lebron:

eFG .603
TS .640

Durant:

eFG .559
TS .647

I'm taking Lebron here.
Exactly

[Crafty]

Do you need instructions on how to click on a link? :facepalm
LeBron eFG - 60,3%
Durant eFG - 55,9%

LeBron TS - 64%
Durant TS - 64,7%

[tontoz]

Lebron:

eFG .603
TS .640

Durant:

eFG .559
TS .647

I'm taking Lebron here.



I'll take the guy who shoots 90% from the line over the guy who shoots 15% worse.

[NumberSix]

LeBron eFG - 60,3%
Durant eFG - 55,9%

LeBron TS - 64%
Durant TS - 64,7%
eFG > TS

TS% is skewed by free throws, and if we're talking Durant, I'm sure as fcuk not using a stat that further skews it by rewarding him for his completely bullshit phantom free throws he constantly gets.

[tpols]

I'll take the guy who shoots 90% from the line over the guy who shoots 15% worse.
TS already factors in FT percentage.. And Durant only beats him by .7

While Lebron beats Durant by 5 percent from the floor..

5>0.7

[chazzy]

It's weird because the Knicks were a great offensive team throughout the year and Melo was efficient. I don't know what the hell they're doing right now

[NumberSix]

TS already factors in FT percentage.. And Durant only beats him by .7

While Lebron beats Durant by 5 percent from the floor..

5>0.7
Not to mention, that .7 on TS% is MASSIVELY skewed by Durant's constant parade to the foul line on bullshit phantom calls.

[tpols]

It's weird because the Knicks were a great offensive team throughout the year and Melo was efficient. I don't know what the hell they're doing right now
Boston defense.

[tontoz]

TS already factors in FT percentage.. And Durant only beats him by .7

While Lebron beats Durant by 5 percent from the floor..

5>0.7



Which makes Durant the more efficient scorer. Period

Plus Durants team relied on his scoring far more than Miami relied on Lebron's scoring. Opposing defenses had to worry about Lebron's teamates much more than Durant's.

[tontoz]

Not to mention, that .7 on TS% is MASSIVELY skewed by Durant's constant parade to the foul line on bullshit phantom calls.

:oldlol: @ a Lebron fan complaining about the refs.

[Nash]

So the best scorer in the league this year should pass more?

I understand jacking 3s in game 5 was a disgrace, but c'mon son. Troll harder, no one expects him to pass the ball. That's what point guards are for
He's not the best scorer in the league, Lebron, Durant and Kobe are better. Its just that mostly Lebron and Durant do other things than score and don't use 100% of their playing time trying to score like Melo. If they did, Melo would nowhere be near the best scorer in the league.

[Psycho]

He's not the best scorer in the league, Lebron, Durant and Kobe are better. Its just that mostly Lebron and Durant do other things than score and don't use 100% of their playing time trying to score like Melo. If they did, Melo would nowhere be near the best scorer in the league.

Honestly, if Lebron and Durant tried to play like Carmelo they would be worse at it than Carmelo.

[chosen_wun]

Honestly, if Lebron and Durant tried to play like Carmelo they would be worse at it than Carmelo.
:biggums:

LeBron in 2006 played like Melo and did waaaay better. He was even better than Carmelo is now:roll:

[tpols]

Which makes Durant the more efficient scorer. Period

Plus Durants team relied on his scoring far more than Miami relied on Lebron's scoring. Opposing defenses had to worry about Lebron's teamates much more than Durant's.
Yup

Technically you're right since TS is overall efficiency.. But when there's that big a gap in eFG it's worth something. That's a very big gap.

Bron is so much more efficient without the assistance of the ref's.. When FTs make up a 5 percent eFG difference.. That's crazy.

[tontoz]

Yup

Technically you're right since TS is overall efficiency.. But when there's that big a gap in eFG it's worth something. That's a very big gap.

Bron is so much more efficient without the assistance of the ref's.. When FTs make up a 5 percent eFG difference.. That's crazy.


Part of the reason foul shots make so much of a difference is that Lebron shoots 15% worse at the line than KD. Is that the refs fault too?

[tpols]

Part of the reason foul shots make so much of a difference is that Lebron shoots 15% worse at the line than KD. Is that the refs fault too?
And another part of the reason is he took 215 more FTs.. Which is absurd.

[STATUTORY]

:roll: thread has derailed to KD vs Lebron cause it's basically unanimous that melo is a low iq chucker and there's no need for further discussion

[tontoz]

And another part of the reason is he took 215 more FTs.. Which is absurd.


First of all you completely dodged the fact that it isn't the refs fault that Lebron can't make foul shots. Secondly Durant played in 5 more games so looking at the total number difference doesn't make sense.

Durant averaged a 2.3 more foul shots per game than Lebron. BFD

[TheMarkMadsen]

First of all you completely dodged the fact that it isn't the refs fault that Lebron can't make foul shots. Secondly Durant played in 5 more games so looking at the total number difference doesn't make sense.

Durant averaged a 2.3 more foul shots per game than Lebron. BFD


So what you're saying is that Durant got to the line ONE more time than Lebron per game

And that the difference in TS% is do more to Durant being a 15% better shooter from the line?

Too much logic

[K Xerxes]

First of all you completely dodged the fact that it isn't the refs fault that Lebron can't make foul shots. Secondly Durant played in 5 more games so looking at the total number difference doesn't make sense.

Durant averaged a 2.3 more foul shots per game than Lebron. BFD

If Durant played the same number of games as LeBron (76), he would have taken roughly 175 more FTs than LeBron. This despite LeBron taking about 150 more shots at the rim (even with Durant playing 5 more games).

Yeah...

[tontoz]

If Durant played the same number of games as LeBron (76), he would have taken roughly 175 more FTs than LeBron.

Like i said Durant took 2.3 more foul shots per game than Lebron. Did you think you were correcting me?

[K Xerxes]

Durant took 2.3 more foul shots per game than Lebron. What part of this is confusing to you?

How slow do you want me to go? Multiply 2.3 by 76 and you'll see how many more FTs Durant would have taken if they both played 76 games.

[tontoz]

How slow do you want me to go? Multiply 2.3 by 76 and you'll see how many more FTs Durant would have taken if they both played 76 games.


So what is the point of repeating something i already said? :facepalm

[Hoopz2332]

Lebron:

eFG .603
TS .640

Durant:

eFG .559
TS .647

I'm taking Lebron here.


..end thread:applause:

[Hoopz2332]

eFG > TS

TS% is skewed by free throws, and if we're talking Durant, I'm sure as fcuk not using a stat that further skews it by rewarding him for his completely bullshit phantom free throws he constantly gets.


bottome line, noone puts the ball in the hoop better than lebron in thenba. Dude gets buckets w/o loads of FT's:bowdown:

[che guevara]

Bizarre fact: Melo has taken 15 more midrange jumpers in this series than the Rockets AS A TEAM.

Melo's shooting splits in this series:

Rim: 12-25, 48%

3-10 ft: 2-8, 25%

10-16 ft: 21-39, 53.8%

16-23 ft: 11-37, 29.7%

3s: 8-28, 28.6%

He's sucked ass everywhere aside from 10-16 ft, that finishing at the rim is borderline hysterical.

[NumberSix]

bottome line, noone puts the ball in the hoop better than lebron in thenba. Dude gets buckets w/o loads of FT's:bowdown:
Not too mention, these shooting percentages don't take into account how much Durant turns the ball over.

Durant's FT numbers are slightly skewed to. He takes all the technical foul shots. That has nothing to do with his scoring.

[tontoz]

Not too mention, these shooting percentages don't take into account how much Durant turns the ball over.

Durant's FT numbers are slightly skewed to. He takes all the technical foul shots. That has nothing to do with his scoring.


:oldlol:

Actually it does. Made free throws count on the scoreboard. Every team wants their best foul shooter at the line to take technicals.

Durant is a 90% shooter from the line so of course he is going to take technical free throws. What team is going to let a 75% shooter take technical foul shots?

What you need to ask yourself is why Lebron's free throw attempts were the lowest since his rookie year.

[Hoopz2332]

What you need to ask yourself is why Lebron's free throw attempts were the lowest since his rookie year.


The refs are robbing him of ft's this year..no other way to explain it


Carmelo
http://oi46.tinypic.com/313rx46.jpg

Durant:
http://i46.tinypic.com/4tvd4j.png

Harden:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2zr3no4.png

Lebron:
http://i46.tinypic.com/qp18jm.png


@ April 10th 2013




Durant: 1390 FGA (325 3PA), 730 FTA, 513 fouls drawn,
LeBron: 1332 FGA (253 3PA), 519 FTA, 428 fouls drawn,

FGA 5 feet or less:
LeBron: 563 FGA
Durant: 365 FGA

Here's what's crazier. Compare Lebron to himself

FGA 5 feet or less:

2004: 558
2005: 586
2006: 707
2007: 592
2008: 652
2009: 569
2010: 546
2011: 533
2012: 437
2013: 563

FTA:

2004: 460
2005: 636
2006: 814
2007: 701
2008: 771
2009: 762
2010: 773
2011: 663
2012: 502
2012: 519

FTA/FGA Ratio


2004: 0.82
2005: 1.09
2006: 1.15
2007: 1.18
2008: 1.18
2009: 1.34
2010: 1.42
2011: 1.24
2012: 1.15
2013: 0.92

He's driving more frequently this season than he has since 2010. It's not even a debate, the drive was not even a facet of his game in 2011, and last year it was common against awful defenses that frequently left a gaping hole open in the lane but that's about it. This season is easily the best he's looked physically since coming to Miami, and yet, for the only time since his rookie season, that ratio has fallen under 1.0.

[IncarceratedBob]

Looks like lebrons finals ppg

[HoopsFanNumero1]

:oldlol:

Actually it does. Made free throws count on the scoreboard. Every team wants their best foul shooter at the line to take technicals.

Durant is a 90% shooter from the line so of course he is going to take technical free throws. What team is going to let a 75% shooter take technical foul shots?

What you need to ask yourself is why Lebron's free throw attempts were the lowest since his rookie year.

What's your explanation?

[macpierce]

pathetic numbers