Pat Riley : LeBron James is the best of any player in history

[3LiftHeatCurse]

"All the players I have observed, watched, and seen... over 47 years of my experience... somewhere they always got better as their career advanced. I think the man we are looking at here (LeBron) is the best of all of them."



http://video.ca.msn.com/watch/video/pat-riley-thinks-lebron-is-the-best-hes-seen/2jvw9gihj

[NumberSix]

True story.

[nathanjizzle]

for the decade sure, up to this point yea. wait till he is exposed.

[HeatFanSince88]

Pat Riley who cares?

I'd much rather listen to the 20 year old asian Kobe stan on the Insidehoops message boards.

[DaSeba5]

Pat Riley who cares?

I'd much rather listen to the 20 year old asian Kobe stan on the Insidehoops message boards.

How dare you disrespect Pat Riley like that! No true Heat fan would ever say that. :no:

[HeatFanSince88]

How dare you disrespect Pat Riley like that! No true Heat fan would ever say that. :no:

Lol Im kidding.

But you know some dude with a Kobe avatar is going to come in and find a way to talk shit about this somehow.

[DaSeba5]

Lol Im kidding.

But you know some dude with a Kobe avatar is going to come in and find a way to talk shit about this somehow.

Most of ISH is going to flame this thread. Not even worth my time.

[lebeast666]

http://www.imgur.com/iJxyBXc.png

[DMV2]

He's the best at quitting on his team too. 2009 playoffs, 2010 playoffs and 2011 Finals.

[(e)]

Why did Miami retire MJ's number then?

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I don't know about that. But he's about even with Wilt and a championship away from undoubtedly surpassing him.

[DaSeba5]

Why did Miami retire MJ's number then?

I was wondering the same thing.

[LikeABosh]

Legends like Bird, Riley, Magic attest to LeGOAT's greatness but nope, ISH retards like RIPTHEKIK and kennethgriffin are right, Lebron is a choking bum.

[lebeast666]

Why did Miami retire MJ's number then?

That happened in 2003, LeBron was a rookie, not even on the Heat team. :confusedshrug:

[macmac]

Skill plus Athleticism. A case can be made.

However, achievements and will to win and bend others to your whims. Not even remotely close

[livinglegend]

:applause: :applause: :rockon: :rockon: :bowdown:

[Zodiac]

Lol no.

Let's put Lebron in an era where there are actually bigs that change the game.

Do you think Lebron is as good as he is if every time he drove the post Mutombo, Olajwoun, Shaq, or Ewing is there waiting?

Who's been the best C during Lebron's timeframe? Dwight, and he couldn't hold a candle to Cs of the past

[kamil]

Why did Miami retire MJ's number then?

To give people the impression that Miami has class.

Hint; it doesn't.

[oh the horror]

Really fellas? Pat, who happens to be the employer of Lebron, saying he's the greatest ever?


No bias there.



That's like Mitch saying Dwight will have a statue at staples one day.




Look, Lebron is one of the most dominant players I've ever seen but don't sit there and quote a dude Bron works for and act like the shit is gospel. Really.

[LAZERUSS]

We will know more in the next 5-10 years. I would wait until then.

[raprap]

Lol no.

Let's put Lebron in an era where there are actually bigs that change the game.

Do you think Lebron is as good as he is if every time he drove the post Mutombo, Olajwoun, Shaq, or Ewing is there waiting?

Who's been the best C during Lebron's timeframe? Dwight, and he couldn't hold a candle to Cs of the past
:lol :hammerhead:

[red1]

Really fellas? Pat, who happens to be the employer of Lebron, saying he's the greatest ever?


No bias there.



That's like Mitch saying Dwight will have a statue at staples one day.




Look, Lebron is one of the most dominant players I've ever seen but don't sit there and quote a dude Bron works for and act like the shit is gospel. Really.
LOL not even the biggest laker fan would buy that

[Pushxx]

Of course he'd say that... he plays for his ****ing team.

[oh the horror]

LOL not even the biggest laker fan would buy that

I don't think even Dwight believed that shit

[KyleKong]

Skill plus Athleticism. A case can be made.

However, achievements and will to win and bend others to your whims. Not even remotely close

Game 6 against Boston.

Your logic is invalid.

[DMAVS41]

The current version of Lebron over the last 2 years definitely has a case for highest impact player of all time. Or I should say that of players I have seen. I did not see Wilt or Russell play.

But...in terms of my own opinion and players I have seen. MJ is the only player i would take over current Lebron. And it's really not that close for 3rd.

Now, where Lebron ranks all time right now is a different story. He has to finish off this year and win more. He has to make up for his epic collapse in 11.

If Lebron wants to finish 2nd all time or even challenge MJ...then he needs to win this title and another one. And then win 2 more.

The best part of this is that there are no excuses or hypotheticals we need to play. Lebron is in the heart of his prime and he has the best help out of anyone in the league. So far that has yielded mixed results. Amazing run last year...epic collapse the year before.

So while I completely agree that the level Lebron has reached these last two years is absolutely amazing, the results have to come with it. He's on the best team...that needs to produce titles. End of story.

If he does produces titles. Then he'll have a claim to the GOAT throne in 10 years. If not...he'll finish somewhere around the 5th best player ever. End of story.

[red1]

I don't think even Dwight believed that shit
true. darius morris would get a statue before dwight

[LongLiveTheKing]

Of course he'd say that... he plays for his ****ing team.
http://i.minus.com/iM0ZAx7ZydNC3.gif

[LAZERUSS]

If LeBron were to retire following this season...and let's just say that his Heat win the title, and he wins the FMVP...would his resume be considered that of the GOAT?

4 MVPs
2 FMVPs
2 Rings

A solid resume to be sure, but there are several players with better careers.

Now, if Riley were to say that James has the potential to be the GOAT, I think it would be a valid claim. But the King still has some work to do.

[chosen_wun]

:applause: :applause: :rockon: :rockon: :bowdown:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/03d7a9d9c2c49c5d46f33cad337fba3b/tumblr_mh7sq1Jt3q1rwg5gso1_500.gif

[jrong]

You're gonna make me start making me root against them, Pat. All it would take is failing to win it all this year, and that would put the brakes on all this LeBron GOAT talk.

And my original loyalties are to Michael Jordan. LeBron's playing with a team that talent-wise is better than MJ's 2nd 3-peat and head-and-shoulders above the first threepeat. If LeBron threepeats in Miami, and then goes back to Cleveland without superstar talent around him and threepeats again, I'll entertain the notion that he could be the GOAT.

Like it's not conflicting enough to root for the Heat already. How am I supposed to feel about the fact that three top 15 players, when leading their own teams, banded together, and now the team also has the best supporting cast in the league after those three? You mean that team is now dominating the NBA? What a shocking accomplishment!

So don't add this shit on top of it, Riles.

[HiphopRelated]

You're gonna make me start making me root against them, Pat. All it would take is failing to win it all this year, and that would put the brakes on all this LeBron GOAT talk.

And my original loyalties are to Michael Jordan. LeBron's playing with a team that talent-wise is better than MJ's 2nd 3-peat and head-and-shoulders above the first threepeat. If LeBron threepeats in Miami, and then goes back to Cleveland without superstar talent around him and threepeats again, I'll entertain the notion that he could be the GOAT.

Like it's not conflicting enough to root for the Heat already. How am I supposed to feel about the fact that three top 15 players, when leading their own teams, banded together, and now the team also has the best supporting cast in the league after those three? You mean that team is now? What a shocking accomplishment!

So don't add this shit on top of it, Riles.
what are you talking about?

You're a Heat fan that has loyalty to Jordan but don't like the Big 3?

Go back to Cleveland and 3peat with garbage? What aer you saying?

[ripthekik]

yet the best player in history needs to quit his leave and join another top3 player and stacked team :rolleyes:

ironic huh?

[BlackVVaves]

I would still take peak MJ and peak Kareem. Possibly still peak Wilt and Peak Bird, but those are beginning to become very debatable at the least.

Kareem needed Oscar/Magic as Bron needed Wade/Bosh, both from that point on are still dominant. If that's the equalizer career wise, give me the big man over the perimeter player unless that perimeter player can dominate on two ends of the court the way a big man and usually only a big man can - that rarity is in the form of a man named Michael Jordan. Lebron is very effective defensively, one of the best help defenders I've ever seen on the perimeter (I'd still take Pippen's defense though, but it's closer than some people try to assert), but Jordan at his peak could literally LOCK YOU UP on the other end of the floor - pick your pocket, force turnovers, just take away possessions for the other team and psyche them out mentally - and still drop 35 on your head.

And, that's why the other player I'd take over Bron (at this point, it could possibly change as he may still have room to grow) peak for peak is MJ.

Those two definitely. The two GOATS in my book. But, I get what Riley is doing. He's trying to stir up the pot and create a discussion on it in the open forum. Bron will end up being Top 5 ever, so I guess he deserves an argument to be made for him.

[chosen_wun]

yet the best player in history needs to quit his leave and join another top3 player and stacked team :rolleyes:

ironic huh?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/27142069a982cf886bebc6495d9f3339/tumblr_mkazytptHX1qfkn7ao1_400.gif

[strifed169]

Pat Riley who cares?

I'd much rather listen to the 20 year old asian Kobe stan on the Insidehoops message boards.

Why is ISH so racist against asians?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Fans going crazy, haters just hating.

Lebron is one of the greatest ever (not the greatest) but Riley owns the Heat so take it for what it is...

[NBAller]

All the dumbasses on this site fail to realize that he's not saying Dwayne Wade is the best player in history, he's saying LeBron is.

AKA he's speaking from reason and not from biasness. he's not saying Chris Bosh is the best center the league has ever seen, cause THAT would be biasness, just like him saying D-Wade is the best SG he's ever seen. No.

I should be paid.

[tazb]

Truth and will be fact in about 10 years or so.

[ripthekik]

You're gonna make me start making me root against them, Pat. All it would take is failing to win it all this year, and that would put the brakes on all this LeBron GOAT talk.

And my original loyalties are to Michael Jordan. LeBron's playing with a team that talent-wise is better than MJ's 2nd 3-peat and head-and-shoulders above the first threepeat. If LeBron threepeats in Miami, and then goes back to Cleveland without superstar talent around him and threepeats again, I'll entertain the notion that he could be the GOAT.

Like it's not conflicting enough to root for the Heat already. How am I supposed to feel about the fact that three top 15 players, when leading their own teams, banded together, and now the team also has the best supporting cast in the league after those three? You mean that team is now dominating the NBA? What a shocking accomplishment!

So don't add this shit on top of it, Riles.
:applause:
excellent post.

[FiveRings]

You've got to be pretty naive to think that this is actually what Riley thinks.

He's simply sucking up to Lebron because he knows Bron is a disloyal guy, and Riles wants to ensure LBJ doesn't bail and sticks around in South Beach for the rest of his career.

[KOBE143]

You've got to be pretty naive to think that this is actually what Riley thinks.

He's simply sucking up to Lebron because he knows Bron is a disloyal guy, and Riles wants to ensure LBJ doesn't bail and sticks around in South Beach for the rest of his career.
this

Riley just want an assurance..

[TheOne]

Best player? Maybe. Greatest? Need more rings/MVPs/FMVPs.

[uoykcuf]

Best player? Maybe. Greatest? Need more rings/MVPs/FMVPs.

Pretty much this :applause:

[gengiskhan]

I was wondering the same thing.

MIA was happy as hell hosting their First Post Season Home Game Ever in arena's & franchises' history.

They were in the celebration mood with all the fireworks.

Jordan brought his own fireworks to the party & resulted in 56 pts.

Franchise decided MJ's celebration was better so they retired his jersey for good as his was ULTIMATE INSULT to MIA Franchise's first ever party.

[Kurosawa0]

Pat Riley is a very smart man. The seeds he's been planting over that last few months have been hilarious. Wants to leave no doubt that Miami is where LeBron should want to be.

[gengiskhan]

what are you talking about?

You're a Heat fan that has loyalty to Jordan but don't like the Big 3?

Go back to Cleveland and 3peat with garbage? What aer you saying?

There are lots of FULL RETARDS who are not in chains in nearest Psych wards.

unfortunately, we have to deal with them.

LBJ is Top 10 GOATs no doubt. His sheer dominance is fantastic.

MJ's sheer dominance was on another level. yes. ANOTHER LEVEL. as he dominated League filled with GREAT CENTERS & GREAT POWER FORWARDS.

LBJ dont have to deal with this.

Its too easy to win season MVP for LBJ cuz he already got Wade & Bosh, both #1 scoring options on their franchises before LBJ showed up.

Pippen was never a #1 scoring option of Bulls ahead of MJ.

[inclinerator]

of course he's not talking about career wise, but as a player he's pretty much up there

[alleykat]

Wait til he leaves Miami.....

Not gonna be singing the same song

[Lebron23]

Not yet

LeBron is only a top 7 or 8 player of all time if the Heat wins the championship this year.

[rmt]

Guess even GMs have to suck up to star players. Love it - puts even more pressure on Lebron to win. Would be a massive fail if the Heat lose. Anything can happen - this flu bug that Robinson/Deng have could sweep through the Heat enough to soften them up for CHI or NYK/IND.

[HeatFanSince88]

LBJ dont have to deal with this.

Its too easy to win season MVP for LBJ cuz he already got Wade & Bosh, both #1 scoring options on their franchises before LBJ showed up.

Pippen was never a #1 scoring option of Bulls ahead of MJ.


Scottie Pippen won 55 games as the alpha on the Bulls and he didn't have any all-stars.

Wade and Bosh have one 50 win season between them as the best player and it was Wades 52-30 year in 05-06 where Shaq was still All NBA 1st Team. Not going to count the year before that because Shaq should have been League MVP and he was the alpha.


Not yet

LeBron is only a top 7 or 8 player of all time if the Heat wins the championship this year.

Why not? Because he doesn't have enough media awards?

Who gives a ****. I judge players by what they bring on the court and there isn't 5 guys all-time who dominate harder than LeBron is right now.

[miller-time]

He's the best at quitting on his team too. 2009 playoffs, 2010 playoffs and 2011 Finals.

So 2007 finals, he quit then too? You know, when he took that terrible Cavs team to the finals and only lost by 3 and 1 points in the final two games? When he made a 3pt shot with 4 seconds on the clock at the end of game 4. Was he quitting on his team then?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So 2007 finals, he quit then too? You know, when he took that terrible Cavs team to the finals and only lost by 3 and 1 points in the final two games? When he made a 3pt shot with 4 seconds on the clock at the end of game 4. Was he quitting on his team then?

Relax fanboi. lol

[deja vu]

Yeah he's so great that he can't lead his team to the promised land so he teamed up with 2 other superstars.. Dude can't take the pressure so he took the easy route to the title.

[Nash]

Some people need to think. Stop bringing resumes and rings and team success into the whole thing. Pat is talking about the individual skill and what he observed with his eyes.

A lot of people have said that Lebron is one of the best if not the best individual talent this league has ever seen. Even Lebron hater Skip has said it.

[BoutPractice]

As a general rule, you deliver first, brag later.

What Riley said could well be true, but we don't know yet just what LeBron's made of. He needs to face more adversity to seal his place in history. We suspect that current LeBron's good enough to overcome about anything thrown at him at this point, but until it happens, it remains just that - a suspicion.

[Doranku]

So 2007 finals, he quit then too? You know, when he took that terrible Cavs team to the finals and only lost by 3 and 1 points in the final two games? When he made a 3pt shot with 4 seconds on the clock at the end of game 4. Was he quitting on his team then?

Is this a joke? How on EARTH are you trying to spin that series in LeBron's favor?

Yeah, LeBron's team was so terrible that they managed to stay competitive in Games 3 and 4 despite LeBron's AWFUL performances.

A combined 19-53 (35.8%) with 11 turnovers in Games 3 and 4. Hell, even in Game 1 they only lost by 9. LeBron's "terrible" team showed up and shot a solid 50% from the field. LeBron? 14 points on 16 shots (25% from the field). :roll:

It's really baffling to me that people completely ignore this atrocious series by LeBron on the basis that his team was terrible. Yet, that terrible team showed up to play in that series... LeBron didn't.

[imnew09]

Kobe is the best player in the planet - Obama.

[MetsPackers]

Really fellas? Pat, who happens to be the employer of Lebron, saying he's the greatest ever?


No bias there.



That's like Mitch saying Dwight will have a statue at staples one day.




Look, Lebron is one of the most dominant players I've ever seen but don't sit there and quote a dude Bron works for and act like the shit is gospel. Really.

LMAO this dude always shows up mad as fvck whenever something good is said about Lebron or something bad is said about Kobe, all while acting like everyone else is mad and immature and he is above it all. Get over it bro, Lebron > Kobe

[Trollsmasher]

http://i.imgur.com/6OGMOB9.jpg

[OldSkoolball#52]

Pat Riley who cares?

I'd much rather listen to the 20 year old asian Kobe stan on the Insidehoops message boards.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


high five for this.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Now, where Lebron ranks all time right now is a different story. He has to finish off this year and win more. He has to make up for his epic collapse in 11.

If Lebron wants to finish 2nd all time or even challenge MJ...then he needs to win this title and another one. And then win 2 more.



So as a player, Lebron is arguably the most impactful of all time. As in, impactful on winning games.

But to be the best player, his teammates also have to play at a certain level, his coach has to make the correct decisions, lucky bounces and unpredictable nba officiating must go exclusively his teams way in 5 or 6 finals, his team can't suffer any injuries etc. etc.


This sounds like the argument of someone who can't compare two players as individuals and must fall back on the lazy and inadequate cop-out cliche: "rings cuz championship is winning for teh rings and you have champion rings rings durrr"

:applause:

[DMAVS41]

So as a player, Lebron is arguably the most impactful of all time. As in, impactful on winning games.

But to be the best player, his teammates also have to play at a certain level, his coach has to make the correct decisions, lucky bounces and unpredictable nba officiating must go exclusively his teams way in 5 or 6 finals, his team can't suffer any injuries etc. etc.


This sounds like the argument of someone who can't compare two players as individuals and must fall back on the lazy and inadequate cop-out cliche: "rings cuz championship is winning for teh rings and you have champion rings rings durrr"

:applause:

Not at all.

What fans on here don't understand. And by "fans"...I mean 15 year old April 2013 posters....

Is that it is the job of the best player / leader of a team to put his teammates into their comfort zones so they perform at a high level. Magic was probably the best at this all time....or maybe Russell. Bird and Duncan are also fantastic at this as well. And so is Lebron.

It's all about expectations based on circumstances. Lebron has the best team in the league around him...and he's in the heart of his prime. He has to at least match what other players in the top 10 have done. Hakeem found a way to win back to back with much less. Duncan found a way to win 4 with much less. Magic won 5. Bird won 3...etc.

The impact has to translate to results...or the impact doesn't really exist now does it?

Using titles to rank players is silly without context. But with the circumstances Lebron is now in...he has to produce titles. Sorry...no other way around it. You don't get to wake up with Wade and Bosh...and probably the best group of role players in the league around you...and not win the title and still get GOAT talk.

Doesn't work that way and it shouldn't.

Go back to school and educate yourself son...

And again. Did 2011 not happen for you? Was that now Lebron's fault? Lebron already cost he and his team a ring. So yea...bad luck could cost him another. That is why you have to capture every chance you have to win...and Lebron's play already cost him at least 1 title...maybe 2 if you count the meltdown in 10.

[FiveRings]

Why not? Because he doesn't have enough media awards?

Who gives a ****. I judge players by what they bring on the court and there isn't 5 guys all-time who dominate harder than LeBron is right now.
Regular season dominance, yeah. Lebron fans love to prop up his media awards and pretend that regular season dominance is just as important as playoff dominance. It's a joke really.

MJ wasn't known to fail in the big playoff moments (when he had good teammates) like Lebron. Six for six doesn't lie. Knowledgeable basketball fans couldn't even fathom MJ freezing up and letting a sixth man outscore him en route to one of the biggest Finals upsets ever.

Lebron is going to win his rings, but he'll fail at least once more in the Finals. KD is getting his ring eventually. Bron's got a lot of years ahead of him, and he might lose a couple more times in the Finals, so he'll probably end up with three or four more Finals losses than Jordan. That's your GOAT?:roll:

Put Lebron and Jordan in the league at the same time and Bron probably gets one ring in his entire career.

[Burgz V2]

inb4 200 pages

[Trollsmasher]

Regular season dominance, yeah. Lebron fans love to prop up his media awards and pretend that regular season dominance is just as important as playoff dominance. It's a joke really.

MJ wasn't known to fail in the big playoff moments (when he had good teammates) like Lebron. Six for six doesn't lie. Knowledgeable basketball fans couldn't even fathom MJ freezing up and letting a sixth man outscore him en route to one of the biggest Finals upsets ever.

Lebron is going to win his rings, but he'll fail at least once more in the Finals. KD is getting his ring eventually. Bron's got a lot of years ahead of him, and he might lose a couple more times in the Finals, so he'll probably end up with three or four more Finals losses than Jordan. That's your GOAT?:roll:

Put Lebron and Jordan in the league at the same time and Bron probably gets one ring in his entire career.
That makes no sense. While LeBron would be going to the Finals, MJ would would be getting swept in 1st round as was his good habit.

Or more likely MJ would not even make playoffs. You have to be better than 38-44 today.

[FiveRings]

That makes no sense. While LeBron would be going to the Finals, MJ would would be getting swept in 1st round as was his good habit.

Or more likely MJ would not even make playoffs. You have to be better than 38-44 today.
Getting to the Finals and getting swept, yeah. An accomplishment that's almost right up there with Iverson and Dwight. Those two didn't get swept in their Finals though.

When they both got good teammates, the Bulls would be knocking Miami out of the playoffs every year. Bron would probably get his first ring during Jordan's first retirement :lol

[COnDEMnED]

Scottie Pippen won 55 games as the alpha on the Bulls and he didn't have any all-stars.

Wade and Bosh have one 50 win season between them as the best player and it was Wades 52-30 year in 05-06 where Shaq was still All NBA 1st Team. Not going to count the year before that because Shaq should have been League MVP and he was the alpha.



Why not? Because he doesn't have enough media awards?

Who gives a ****. I judge players by what they bring on the court and there isn't 5 guys all-time who dominate harder than LeBron is right now.
You cant think of at least 5 players, all time, who dominated in the NBA better than LeBron James?

I notice your join date also..:facepalm

[Magic 32]

4 years of "dominance" We are all witnesses.

The Decision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTeCc8jy7FI
The Prediction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT-I8jQDQ7c
The Dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU9g14BIC3M
The Cough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoOXKha7uL4
The Answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKj3Zwcy7ME
The Walk of
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Gz724sjAQ
The Tweet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YS7YqQoJBc
The Ringless Celebration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfrlHm88tYo

[Mr. Jabbar]

This is the equivalent of a mother saying his son is the best.... no need to look further into it guys, comment holds little to no value. Riley is just trying to boost dat lebron confidence so that he doesn't go missing in action again

[HomieWeMajor]

It's like your mother telling you that you're the most handsome boy in the playground

[Breezy]

Breezy: "Lebron James is not the best player in History"

Well there you go. Pat Riley apparently doesn't know everything.

[LuigiChambles]

Kobe is the best player in the planet - Obama.

"Kobe is the reason why SHAQ has 3 rings as a member of the Lakers" - imnew09

[ThaRegul8r]

"All the players I have observed, watched, and seen... over 47 years of my experience... somewhere they always got better as their career advanced. I think the man we are looking at here (LeBron) is the best of all of them."

Interestingly enough, I don't see "in history" in those words that are quoted here. The quoted statement says "that I have seen," (meaning GIES, not GOAT, which I've actually said more people should be speaking in terms of) which he dates back to 1966.

I find it annoying when people attributed to people words that weren't said. But I guess since the period from 1966-2013 includes Jordan's career, that's why this thread was made.


Really fellas? Pat, who happens to be the employer of Lebron, saying he's the greatest ever?


No bias there.



That's like Mitch saying Dwight will have a statue at staples one day.




Look, Lebron is one of the most dominant players I've ever seen but don't sit there and quote a dude Bron works for and act like the shit is gospel. Really.

There's a point here, because, for instance, I'm old enough to remember Riley continually saying Kareem was the greatest during the 80's, but once Riley went to the Knicks and was no longer associated with the Lakers, he said Magic was better. You need to assuage people's egos when you're with them, so I find it means more when someone speaks on the issue after they no longer have ties with them so they can give an honest answer without worrying about offending people.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron is superb in this era, absolute dominance over the rest of the league. However, hes not even the third best player Riley ever coached, when you had Magic, Kareem and Shaq before.

[LBJ 23]

I don't know why you all bringing rings and accomplishments into this discussion. The way I see it, Riley was talking about Lebron and his abilities/skills/impact/dominance all bonding together as a whole and forming him as a basketball player. The sum of all basketball skills that a player has and what a player can do on the court. And Lebron is not necessarily the greatest of all time in that regard, but he is definitely top 1-3.

And people saying ''of course Riley would say something like this, Lebron is playing for his team after all''. Well, I don't think Riley would go that far and say something like this if he wouldn't actually believe it. I mean, there are probably ten thousand other ways how to praise Lebron for his 4th MVP and he chooses this one of them all? And you think Riley is not honestly believing that and saying this just to keep Lebron in Miami?

[ripthekik]

4 years of "dominance" We are all witnesses.

The Decision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTeCc8jy7FI
The Prediction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT-I8jQDQ7c
The Dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU9g14BIC3M
The Cough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoOXKha7uL4
The Answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKj3Zwcy7ME
The Walk of
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Gz724sjAQ
The Tweet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YS7YqQoJBc
The Ringless Celebration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfrlHm88tYo
damn.. :oldlol:

yea.. I agree with the posts that says Riley is just trying to make his player happy. Didn't the same thing happened just recently? Danny Ainge criticized Lebron.. and Pat came out of nowhere to defend Lebron.

This is the same. He wants to make sure Lebron stays in Miami, that's all.

[Haymaker]

How does Wade feel about this? :oldlol:

First Bron takes over his team, now Riley baptized Bron as the GOAT.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't know why you all bringing rings and accomplishments into this discussion. The way I see it, Riley was talking about Lebron and his abilities/skills/impact/dominance all bonding together as a whole and forming him as a basketball player. The sum of all basketball skills that a player has and what a player can do on the court. And Lebron is not necessarily the greatest of all time in that regard, but he is definitely top 1-3.

And people saying ''of course Riley would say something like this, Lebron is playing for his team after all''. Well, I don't think Riley would go that far and say something like this if he wouldn't actually believe it. I mean, there are probably ten thousand other ways how to praise Lebron for his 4th MVP and he chooses this one of them all? And you think Riley is not honestly believing that and saying this just to keep Lebron in Miami?

Don't be naive. If he wants to keep Lebron, of course he'll go that far. Riley would say and do just about anything. :oldlol:

[Dro]

I don't know why you all bringing rings and accomplishments into this discussion. The way I see it, Riley was talking about Lebron and his abilities/skills/impact/dominance all bonding together as a whole and forming him as a basketball player. The sum of all basketball skills that a player has and what a player can do on the court. And Lebron is not necessarily the greatest of all time in that regard, but he is definitely top 1-3.

And people saying ''of course Riley would say something like this, Lebron is playing for his team after all''. Well, I don't think Riley would go that far and say something like this if he wouldn't actually believe it. I mean, there are probably ten thousand other ways how to praise Lebron for his 4th MVP and he chooses this one of them all? And you think Riley is not honestly believing that and saying this just to keep Lebron in Miami?
Gullible are we?:banghead:

[BIZARRO]

I'll take Mike.

[lebeast666]

I'll take Bron Bron

[tpols]

He might be.. Physically its 100% true.

[sportjames23]

I'll take Bron Bron

And you'll lose.

[Clifton]

Do you think Lebron is as good as he is if every time he drove the post Mutombo, Olajwoun, Shaq, or Ewing is there waiting?
Yeah, and you don't even mention the Pistons or Jazz. Heck, let's just see how he does with Hibbert in the paint and Paul George on him for a 7 game series.

A comparable-sized SF who actually keeps his man in front of him, and a 7 footer who is conscientious about defense and doesn't foul like a moron. That's definitely more than Lebron had to go through last year.

Lebron's resume is very overrated in a league where the only players of quality are SFs and PGs. Jordan was a 49% playoff shooter in the toughest defensive era in NBA history. Won 6 titles without a big man in the years in the roughest era in the history of the game. Lebron never succeeded in Cleveland, and he's never been seriously challenged since joining the Heat. (Yet he still lost against Dallas, getting outscored by Jason Terry.)

[Trollsmasher]

Yeah, and you don't even mention the Pistons or Jazz. Heck, let's just see how he does with Hibbert in the paint and Paul George on him for a 7 game series.

A comparable-sized SF who actually keeps his man in front of him, and a 7 footer who is conscientious about defense and doesn't foul like a moron. That's definitely more than Lebron had to go through last year.

Lebron's resume is very overrated in a league where the only players of quality are SFs and PGs. Jordan was a 49% playoff shooter in the toughest defensive era in NBA history. Won 6 titles without a big man in the years in the roughest era in the history of the game. Lebron never succeeded in Cleveland, and he's never been seriously challenged since joining the Heat. (Yet he still lost against Dallas, getting outscored by Jason Terry.)
How many times did Jordan face a sub 100 defensive rating team in the postseason? Twice?:lol

[PJR]

Considering Pat Riley possesses more acumen for the game of basketball than the members of this entire discussion forum combined(and then some), I'll respect his opinion. He may be a bit bias, but he sure as hell isn't blowing any smoke. It's either Jordan or LeBron.

[ripthekik]

Considering Pat Riley possesses more acumen for the game of basketball than the members of this entire discussion forum combined(and then some), I'll respect his opinion. He may be a bit bias, but he sure as hell isn't blowing any smoke. It's either Jordan or LeBron.
should I get you quotes from the top 10 GOAT's about Lebron? :rolleyes:

[Clifton]

Considering Pat Riley possesses more acumen for the game of basketball than the members of this entire discussion forum combined(and then some), I'll respect his opinion. He may be a bit bias, but he sure as hell isn't blowing any smoke. It's either Jordan or LeBron.
Pat Riley's acumen for the game is exactly why he's saying this. Not because it's true (or untrue). Lebron as Basketball God is exactly the sort of thing he wants cultivated. If people believe it, that's how he'll play, and that's how teams will play him.

That doesn't mean that critical NBA fans have to turn their brains off because Pat Riley ipse dixit.

[Solefade]

Yeah, and you don't even mention the Pistons or Jazz. Heck, let's just see how he does with Hibbert in the paint and Paul George on him for a 7 game series.

A comparable-sized SF who actually keeps his man in front of him, and a 7 footer who is conscientious about defense and doesn't foul like a moron. That's definitely more than Lebron had to go through last year.

Lebron's resume is very overrated in a league where the only players of quality are SFs and PGs. Jordan was a 49% playoff shooter in the toughest defensive era in NBA history. Won 6 titles without a big man in the years in the roughest era in the history of the game. Lebron never succeeded in Cleveland, and he's never been seriously challenged since joining the Heat. (Yet he still lost against Dallas, getting outscored by Jason Terry.)

You make it seem like he went through no adversity at all. He went through most of the playoffs without Chris Bosh and played with an injured Dwyane Wade who got his knee drained throughout the entire playoffs. People need to STFU about Cleveland already because no one wins without other greats.

[Dro]

Pat Riley's acumen for the game is exactly why he's saying this. Not because it's true (or untrue). Lebron as Basketball God is exactly the sort of thing he wants cultivated. If people believe it, that's how he'll play, and that's how teams will play him.

That doesn't mean that critical NBA fans have to turn their brains off because Pat Riley ipse dixit.
Good point..:applause:

[Akhenaten]

Is this a joke? How on EARTH are you trying to spin that series in LeBron's favor?

Yeah, LeBron's team was so terrible that they managed to stay competitive in Games 3 and 4 despite LeBron's AWFUL performances.

A combined 19-53 (35.8%) with 11 turnovers in Games 3 and 4. Hell, even in Game 1 they only lost by 9. LeBron's "terrible" team showed up and shot a solid 50% from the field. LeBron? 14 points on 16 shots (25% from the field). :roll:

It's really baffling to me that people completely ignore this atrocious series by LeBron on the basis that his team was terrible. Yet, that terrible team showed up to play in that series... LeBron didn't.

Lebron has had some of the worst series for a goat/superstar:

07 Finals
08 ECF
10 ECSF
11 Finals


all of these on the level or worse than Ewing's 94 Finals, what wad horrendous. That 08 ECSF was the worst offensive showing by a superstar ever that I can remember.

[BlackVVaves]

Considering Pat Riley possesses more acumen for the game of basketball than the members of this entire discussion forum combined(and then some), I'll respect his opinion. He may be a bit bias, but he sure as hell isn't blowing any smoke. It's either Jordan or LeBron.

If you were going to start a franchise with a player, Kareem would still go before Bron.

He still has time to continue to evolve and extend his dominance and change that, but there's a reason Kareem was able to be attain 5 MVPs and 6 championships.

If you are talking peak for peak, Jordan and Kareem > Bron. There are others in the conversation like Bird's peak and Wilt's peak and Shaq's peak, but the definites right now are MJ and Kareem.

[Sarcastic]

Of course Riley would say something like this. He wants Lebron to stay after 2014.

[2010splash]

Not as ridiculous of a claim as people are making it out to be. Jordan is the best ever, but honestly you have people who say Kareem or Russell is GOAT, which is far more ridiculous than saying LeBron is the best individual player ever, since LeBron is better than either Kareem or Russell. He's not better than Jordan yet, but if anyone can get to Jordan's level, it's LeBron. At worst he'll finish #2 all-time so the gap won't be that massive.

[Sarcastic]

Not as ridiculous of a claim as people are making it out to be. Jordan is the best ever, but honestly you have people who say Kareem or Russell is GOAT, which is far more ridiculous than saying LeBron is the best individual player ever, since LeBron is better than either Kareem or Russell. He's not better than Jordan yet, but if anyone can get to Jordan's level, it's LeBron. At worst he'll finish #2 all-time so the gap won't be that massive.

How the fck do you know Lebron is better Kareem or Russell. You have never seen either of them play.



I can't wait till 2023, when all the Wiggins and Seventh Woods' fanbois are all claiming them to be the GOAT, and how Lebron wasn't on their level.

[DMAVS41]

Not as ridiculous of a claim as people are making it out to be. Jordan is the best ever, but honestly you have people who say Kareem or Russell is GOAT, which is far more ridiculous than saying LeBron is the best individual player ever, since LeBron is better than either Kareem or Russell. He's not better than Jordan yet, but if anyone can get to Jordan's level, it's LeBron. At worst he'll finish #2 all-time so the gap won't be that massive.

What are you talking about?

At worst he'll finish top 2...:wtf:

He very well could, but he could easily finish only in the top 8 or so if he fails to win more than 1 more title.

What if he pulls another 2011 in the finals this year?

[2010splash]

How the fck do you know Lebron is better Kareem or Russell. You have never seen either of them play.



I can't wait till 2023, when all the Wiggins and Seventh Woods' fanbois are all claiming them to be the GOAT, and how Lebron wasn't on their level.
It's called common sense. That's how.

[Sarcastic]

It's called common sense. That's how.


:roll: :roll: :roll:


So ranking players is now based off common sense? Facts are thrown out the window, amirite?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[2010splash]

What are you talking about?

At worst he'll finish top 2...:wtf:

He very well could, but he could easily finish only in the top 8 or so if he fails to win more than 1 more title.

What if he pulls another 2011 in the finals this year?
Yeah, no way. With 4 MVP's he's a lock to finish top 5 all-time. I don't know where you get your crazy criteria for ranking players from, but all the 4-time MVP winners (Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Wilt) are UNIVERSALLY regarded as top 5 all-time players. Yet you think LeBron moves into "Hakeem/Kobe range at 8-10" if he wins yet another title? Ridiculous.

He's on pace to finish top 2 all-time barring an early career-ending injury for sure. Of course something like 2011 can't happen, but I am assuming it won't. If it does (not likely), then we adjust the rankings accordingly.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, no way. With 4 MVP's he's a lock to finish top 5 all-time. I don't know where you get your crazy criteria for ranking players from, but all the 4-time MVP winners (Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Wilt) are UNIVERSALLY regarded as top 5 all-time players. Yet you think LeBron moves into "Hakeem/Kobe range at 8-10" if he wins yet another title? Ridiculous.

He's on pace to finish top 2 all-time barring an early career-ending injury for sure. Of course something like 2011 can't happen, but I am assuming it won't. If it does (not likely), then we adjust the rankings accordingly.

Exactly.

So he's not a lock to finish top 2 all time.

You just said so yourself.

I think he most likely finishes in the top 5 as well, but anything could happen.

And yes, Lebron has to prove he can rattle off a number of titles playing on stacked teams...just like every other top 10 great did.

Rings vs rings doesn't matter much unless you put in the context. Well, Lebron is now already in his 3rd year of having the best help in the league...easily the best help this year.

The results are mixed so far. 1 great year. 1 epic failure. What happens this year is huge for his legacy.

If they win...he moves into the top 10 for sure and starts challenging that 5-8 range.

But he has to win 3 titles given his circumstances to pass up guys like Bird, Shaq, Duncan...etc.

Playing on this stacked of a team...against what has now become a very weak league this year....it demands results.

I think you forget that Duncan has 4 titles, 3 fmvp's, and 2 mvp awards. So...uhhh...no, Lebron doesn't pass him yet after his year. Especially considering how much less help Duncan had when he won....and Duncan never failed epically the way Lebron did in the finals. In which Lebron has now done twice....god help him and his fans if it happens a 3rd time this year.

Let it play out...

[BlackVVaves]

Peak Kareem > current Lebron (but, that can still change depending on how he dominates the game for the duration of his peak play).

Stop being a fanboy, 2010whoever. Know your history, there's a reason why MJ and Kareem are considered the GOAT small and big, and it really has nothing to do with rings or MVPs - those are just the coins of validation that they were able to attain via their dominance.

[2010splash]

Peak Kareem > current Lebron (but, that can still change depending on how he dominates the game for the duration of his peak play).

Stop being a fanboy, 2010whoever. Know your history, there's a reason why MJ and Kareem are considered the GOAT small and big, and it really has nothing to do with rings or MVPs - those are just the coins of validation that they were able to attain via their dominance.
You gotta stop with this nostalgic overrating of past players just because they played in the past. LeBron is far better than Kareem ever was. Kareem would tell you this himself. Kareem is far from the clear-cut GOAT big. Plenty of people argue Wilt and Shaq were better.

LeBron - 4 seasons with a 30+ PER (3 of which were 31+ PER's)

Kareem - 0 seasons with a 30+ PER

Kareem's playoff runs were nothing special. What LeBron did last year was better than anything Kareem ever did. Kareem = king of coattail-riding Robins. We're talking about a guy who won 4 titles averaging roughly 17/8 during that span. Comparing him to LeBron... :oldlol: :applause:

[BlackVVaves]

You gotta stop with this nostalgic overrating of past players just because they played in the past. LeBron is far better than Kareem ever was. Kareem would tell you this himself. Kareem is far from the clear-cut GOAT big. Plenty of people argue Wilt and Shaq were better.

LeBron - 4 seasons with a 30+ PER (3 of which were 31+ PER's)

Kareem - 0 seasons with a 30+ PER

Kareem's playoff runs were nothing special. What LeBron did last year was better than anything Kareem ever did. Kareem = king of coattail-riding Robins. We're talking about a guy who won 4 titles averaging roughly 17/8 during that span. Comparing him to LeBron... :oldlol: :applause:

This is the second post I've seen you make in the last 24 hours resorting to PER to distinguish between two players.

Are you a single-cell organism, or do you just play one on ISH?

[Sarcastic]

Neil Johnston is 10th all time in PER.
Bill Russell is 103rd all time in PER.


Great stat, huh?

[Doctor Rivers]

You gotta stop with this nostalgic overrating of past players just because they played in the past. LeBron is far better than Kareem ever was. Kareem would tell you this himself. Kareem is far from the clear-cut GOAT big. Plenty of people argue Wilt and Shaq were better.

LeBron - 4 seasons with a 30+ PER (3 of which were 31+ PER's)

Kareem - 0 seasons with a 30+ PER

Kareem's playoff runs were nothing special. What LeBron did last year was better than anything Kareem ever did. Kareem = king of coattail-riding Robins. We're talking about a guy who won 4 titles averaging roughly 17/8 during that span. Comparing him to LeBron... :oldlol: :applause:
Just go ahead and create a thread claiming LeBron to be GOAT.

LeBron >> Jordan

come on... i know you want to say it

[BlackVVaves]

Neil Johnston is 10th all time in PER.
Bill Russell is 103rd all time in PER.


Great stat, huh?

PER, GOAT stat :bowdown:

[Solefade]

Why don't the GOAT players from ESPN, NBATV, TNT just vote on this and settle it since they've played with Jordan, their words mean more than anyone else. Most of them have clarified that Jordan is the GOAT but have also attested that LeBron could potentially be better than Michael Jordan. Y'all act like he'll never touch it or come close to it, but it's not a far fetched thing.

[HeatFanSince88]

You gotta stop with this nostalgic overrating of past players just because they played in the past. LeBron is far better than Kareem ever was. Kareem would tell you this himself. Kareem is far from the clear-cut GOAT big. Plenty of people argue Wilt and Shaq were better.

LeBron - 4 seasons with a 30+ PER (3 of which were 31+ PER's)

Kareem - 0 seasons with a 30+ PER

Kareem's playoff runs were nothing special. What LeBron did last year was better than anything Kareem ever did. Kareem = king of coattail-riding Robins. We're talking about a guy who won 4 titles averaging roughly 17/8 during that span. Comparing him to LeBron... :oldlol: :applause:

:applause:

Good shit. Kareem is one of the most overrated players. He got his ass spanked by old Wilt with a ****ed up knee. He couldn't even lead his team to the playoffs in his prime when he didn't have another superstar. He was ok once he started riding Magics dick though, surprised he didnt get HIV.

[hawke812]

"All the players I have observed, watched, and seen... over 47 years of my experience... somewhere they always got better as their career advanced. I think the man we are looking at here (LeBron) is the best of all of them."



http://video.ca.msn.com/watch/video/pat-riley-thinks-lebron-is-the-best-hes-seen/2jvw9gihj

I don't fault Pat for trying to sell his product. If he never had a vested interest in LBJ, his statement would be legit.

[DMAVS41]

You gotta stop with this nostalgic overrating of past players just because they played in the past. LeBron is far better than Kareem ever was. Kareem would tell you this himself. Kareem is far from the clear-cut GOAT big. Plenty of people argue Wilt and Shaq were better.

LeBron - 4 seasons with a 30+ PER (3 of which were 31+ PER's)

Kareem - 0 seasons with a 30+ PER

Kareem's playoff runs were nothing special. What LeBron did last year was better than anything Kareem ever did. Kareem = king of coattail-riding Robins. We're talking about a guy who won 4 titles averaging roughly 17/8 during that span. Comparing him to LeBron... :oldlol: :applause:

You can't be serious. Please just stop.

[fpliii]

Neil Johnston is 10th all time in PER.
Bill Russell is 103rd all time in PER.


Great stat, huh?

This. Also, PER prior to 77-78 doesn't include turnovers, and prior to 73-74 doesn't include blocks, steals, or separate offensive/defensive rebounds.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Neil Johnston is 10th all time in PER.
Bill Russell is 103rd all time in PER.


Great stat, huh?

You do understand Neil Johnston was a great player, right? He was a better offensive player than Bill Russell. But back then, defensive stats like blocks were not recorded so Bill gets the shaft.

3

[ripthekik]

Sure proved it tonight :bowdown:

[DMAVS41]

Sure proved it tonight :bowdown:

Obviously 1 game means nothing.

But that is the point. What if the Heat lose this year. What if they lose in the 2nd round with Lebron playing poorly?

All this talk about "for sure" and top 2 all time go away....probably for good...that is how fragile this stuff is.

And it's insulting to all the other great players in the top 10 that have accomplished so much in their careers.

[knicksman]

edit

[knicksman]

You gotta stop with this nostalgic overrating of past players just because they played in the past. LeBron is far better than Kareem ever was. Kareem would tell you this himself. Kareem is far from the clear-cut GOAT big. Plenty of people argue Wilt and Shaq were better.

LeBron - 4 seasons with a 30+ PER (3 of which were 31+ PER's)

Kareem - 0 seasons with a 30+ PER

Kareem's playoff runs were nothing special. What LeBron did last year was better than anything Kareem ever did. Kareem = king of coattail-riding Robins. We're talking about a guy who won 4 titles averaging roughly 17/8 during that span. Comparing him to LeBron... :oldlol: :applause:


well magic doesnt have 30+ PER and jordan won his championships with only one 30+ PER.

So among the top 5 goats only one player has 30+ PER which is shaq considering jordan only has one in his 6 championships.

Here are my top GOATS-jordan, magic, duncan, shaq, russell

And oh jordans 32 8 8 team sucked while jordans 30 6 4 team won 72 games. SAme with oscar robertson who has no rings despite having a PER better than magic

[knicksman]

You gotta stop with this nostalgic overrating of past players just because they played in the past. LeBron is far better than Kareem ever was. Kareem would tell you this himself. Kareem is far from the clear-cut GOAT big. Plenty of people argue Wilt and Shaq were better.

LeBron - 4 seasons with a 30+ PER (3 of which were 31+ PER's)

Kareem - 0 seasons with a 30+ PER

Kareem's playoff runs were nothing special. What LeBron did last year was better than anything Kareem ever did. Kareem = king of coattail-riding Robins. We're talking about a guy who won 4 titles averaging roughly 17/8 during that span. Comparing him to LeBron... :oldlol: :applause:


well magic doesnt have 30+ PER and jordan won his championships with only one 30+ PER.

So among the top 5 goats only one player has 30+ PER which is shaq considering jordan only has one in his 6 championships.

Here are my top GOATS-jordan, magic, duncan, shaq, russell

And oh jordans 32 8 8 team sucked while jordans 30 6 4 team won 72 games. SAme with oscar robertson who has no rings despite having a PER better than magic

[G-Funk]

A Heat executive just trying to sell his product.

[willds09]

pat riley smoking that shit:lol

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

wow times change

[Gileraracer]

now he's 2/6 with some legendary choke-jobs and nobody says shit like that anymore.

[SexSymbol]

now he's 2/6 with some legendary choke-jobs and nobody says shit like that anymore.
It's so easy for media to create a superstar these days and Lebron still failed

[RRR3]

Bron got these Kobetards madder than a sumo wrestler at a weight watchers convention :oldlol:

[Wally450]

Still one of the greatest regardless.

[bizil]

I think Lebron is the most versatile player of all time. I also think he's the most physically dominant perimeter player ever. THAT COMBINATION is what Riley is talking about. Peak wise, I would still take MJ over Lebron. MJ is the only perimeter player FOR SURE i would take over Bron peak wise.

I could see arguments for guys like Kobe and Bird over Bron too. But at the end of the day, Lebron is the most unique player in NBA history. If Lebron DID have the killer instinct of Kobe, MJ, or Bird, then he would for sure be the best perimeter player of all time peak wise. I think the peaks of Shaq, Wilt, and Kareem belong in their own category. Because there is nothing like dominant 7 footers who can control the paint on both ends.

[305Baller]

Riley also called Wade best in world in 09.