Bill Russell vs Michael Jordan - only thing people 100 years from now will care about

[kennethgriffin]

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/frewgr_zpse736acdf.png (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/cashforcards/media/frewgr_zpse736acdf.png.html)

[kennethgriffin]

i proved kareem was better

now i'm proving russell is better

nobody can argue with titles

scoring is down compared to mike. but he was mainly a defensive anchor that grabbed 20-25 rebounds a game and ran the offense from the high post

that combined with his player/coach titles and theres no comparison

[keepinitreal]

If this is the only thing people 100 years from now will care about, then we are certainly doomed.

[Hittin_Shots]

All you have ever proven is that no-one should open your threads

[SpecialQue]

All you have ever proven is that no-one should open your threads

:applause:

[AintNoSunshine]

i proved kareem was better

now i'm proving russell is better

nobody can argue with titles

scoring is down compared to mike. but he was mainly a defensive anchor that grabbed 20-25 rebounds a game and ran the offense from the high post

that combined with his player/coach titles and theres no comparison


100 years from now people will remember MJ being the best still, russell with the most championships. Definitely noone's gonna remember some inefficient chucker named kobe bryant that's for sure

[kennethgriffin]

:applause:


:cheers:

saying jordan is better than russell is like a lebron fan saying their guy is better than jordan due to "per" or some crap

[kennethgriffin]

100 years from now people will remember MJ being the best still, russell with the most championships. Definitely noone's gonna remember some inefficient chucker named kobe bryant that's for sure


i beg to differ

kobes 5 titles / mvp/ finals mvps combo puts in him pretty rare company

[AintNoSunshine]

i beg to differ

kobes 5 titles / mvp/ finals mvps combo puts in him pretty rare company


:lol He has exactly one MVP and same amoutn of deserved FMVP as chauncey billups, less titles than robert horry, plus all his fanboys like yourself will be dead by the time, so I'm sure noone remembers him

[Ne 1]

MVP

Russell - 5
Jordan - 5


Number of NBA championships

Russell - 11 He won 8 straight championships (an octo-peat)
Jordan - 6

Number of conference championships

Russell - 10
Jordan - 6

Number of times he failed to make the conference finals

Russell - 0
Jordan - 7

Number of times he failed to make the playoffs

Russell - 0
Jordan - 2

Number of losing seasons (below .500)

Russell - 0
Jordan - 5


Number of seasons playing college basketball

Russell - 3
Jordan - 3

Number of Championships

Russell - 2
Jordan - 1

Number of Final 4 appearances

Russell - 2
Jordan - 1


Bill Russell without Bob Cousy (6 seasons)

NBA Championships - 5
MVPs - 1

NBA Finals - 5
Best Record in the NBA - 2

Michael Jordan without Pippen (5 seasons)

NBA Championships - 0
MVPs - 0
NBA Finals - 0
Best Record in the NBA - 0


Bill Russell, first 3 years

NBA championships - 2
MVPs - 1
NBA Finals - 3
Best record in NBA - 3
Playoff record - 23-9
Losing Records 0


Michael Jordan, first 3 years

NBA championships - 0
MVPs - 0
NBA Finals - 0
Best record in NBA - 0
Playoff record - 1-9
Losing Records 3



Bill Russell

Years played 13
MVPs 5
Championships 11
First team all-defense 10


Michael Jordan

Years played 15

MVPs 5
Championships 6
First team all-defense 9



Jordan is great but in terms of achievements, Bill Russell is GREATER than Jordan. Finals MVP didn't exist during Russell's time.

Media over hype is what made Jordan the greatest in the eyes of many. Nothing draws the fans in to the game other than telling him the "greatest" player is currently playing on television. Give Russell, Wilt, Oscar, Kareem, etc. the benefit of advance cable and satellite television like it was during Jordan's time and they would be the ones bringing the NBA to a global audience.

Russell is an awesome rebounder averaging 22rpg, a surprisingly good ball handler for a big man since he often runs the ball after rebounding to get a clear pass down court and start the fastbreak, and of course a great defender. He is also a great passer; he was even ranked #5 in assists in one time and he is a center. Not most guards could do that. His scoring is alright at 15ppg. Not exactly mind blowing numbers but then EVERYONE on the 60's Celtics doesnt have mind blowing PPG. Red Auerbach runs a structured offense wherein all five guys on the floor have the opportunity to shine and score. The highest scorer on the team averages on 22ppg and there are five to six other guys scoring in double digits. Russell or anyone else on the Celtics need not to fully exert themselves on offense because the scoring is distributed. Russell has the same shooting percentage as the top two scorers (Sam Jones and Havlicek) on the team. Anyway back in college, Russ was scoring 20ppg with a 52FG%. The man has an all around game.

In short, you cant use Jordan's "all around game" as an excuse to put him over Russell in a GOAT debate. He also has a much higher college scoring average than Jordan (17 something PPG).

[KOBE143]

Poor Man's Joel Anthony VS Poor Man's Tony Allen

It's really hard to choose.. It could go either way.. :confusedshrug:

[Cali Syndicate]

in 3013....

[TonyMontana]

i proved kareem was better

now i'm proving russell is better

nobody can argue with titles

scoring is down compared to mike. but he was mainly a defensive anchor that grabbed 20-25 rebounds a game and ran the offense from the high post

that combined with his player/coach titles and theres no comparison

Here is Prime Russells numbers when you adjust for pace regarding numbers of possessions and MPG

Adjusted: 11.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 2.7 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

Actual Numbers: 18.9 ppg, 23.6 rpg, 4.5 apg in his ~150 poss. per game. & 45.2 mpg.

Russell was Ben Wallace before Ben Wallace. Good rebounder and defensive player but his titles was more to the fact that he played on a stacked franchise in an 8-team league more than his "dominance". If people are going to credit Russell so much for those titles then those same people should have Bob Cousy in their top ten. Otherwise their hypocrites

[pejavelin]

this guy will be remembered for ever

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/files/2012/03/0302_wilt-100.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

Here is Prime Russells numbers when you adjust for pace regarding numbers of possessions and MPG

Adjusted: 11.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 2.7 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

Actual Numbers: 18.9 ppg, 23.6 rpg, 4.5 apg in his ~150 poss. per game. & 45.2 mpg.

Russell was Ben Wallace before Ben Wallace. Good rebounder and defensive player but his titles was more to the fact that he played on a stacked franchise in an 8-team league more than his "dominance". If people are going to credit Russell so much for those titles then those same people should have Bob Cousy in their top ten. Otherwise their hypocrites

if ben wallace won 11 titles and 5 mvps. then you'd have a point

[2010splash]

Kareem and Russell were both vastly inferior players to Jordan. Jordan basically sits at #1 all by himself with no real competition as of now (LeBron will be close in 5 years). Kareem was the king of all second fiddles as proven by his shameless coattail-riding of Magic in the mid-late 80's, winning titles while averaging role player like numbers of 18/7... Russell basically put up Mutombo-like stats and won titles in a grossly watered down and weak era. Neither player should be ranked anywhere near Jordan. Honestly, players like Shaq, LeBron, Wilt and Magic should be ranked higher than them.

[andgar923]

And yet, not even 100 years from now and people know that MJ>>>>>> Kobe

By next season most will care about is that Bron>>>>> Kobe


Must be sad being a Kobe fan.

[kennethgriffin]

And yet, not even 100 years from now and people know that MJ>>>>>> Kobe

By next season most will care about is that Bron>>>>> Kobe


Must be sad being a Kobe fan.


not really... allot of former players/coaches call kobe one of the top 5 ever

every poll has kobe top 5 too


only on message boards is he ranked top 7-9

and his career isnt even done yet. he could come back and play another 2-3 seasons

[andgar923]

not really... allot of former players/coaches call kobe one of the top 5 ever

every poll has kobe top 5 too


only on message boards is he ranked top 7-9

and his career isnt even done yet. he could come back and play another 2-3 seasons
With all that said, MJ is still ranked ahead of Kobe regardless of how many more season he plays.

Bron is regarded as the better player, but Kobe has more titles thus far. Funny thing is, if Bron only wins 1 more ring he'll be regarded as better than Kobe by a huge majority, 2 more rings and he'll def be regarded better than Kobe hands down.

yet, Kobe can win 8 rings and he still won't be regarded better than MJ.

Must be sucky being a Kobe fan.

[Breezy]

In all likelihood 100 years from now there will be someone who is currently unknown, and probably as of now a generation or 2 from being born who will be considered the best player of all time. But if that doesn't happen then I think we can safely account for the generational bias and say that as of now Micheal Jordan is almost universally considered the superior player so there is no legitimate reason to think that time will change it. People will pass down their opinions to their children who will in turn pass them down to their kids.

The important thing is to recognize the Lebron James is currently better than Kobe bryant is or ever was. :banana:

[alleykat]

I'm sorry bruh but u got it all wrong....

Doesn't matter if Russell beat Jordan in championships or even awards, MJ's name alone transcends basketball. Does Russell's? No, I bet u you take a poll of people not even remotely interested in basketball or its history, and they will know Jordan, not Bill.

His brand is implemented in modern culture, not Russell's. So 100 years from know people will still talk Jordan.

[deja vu]

Kobe 2 titles as main man >>> MJ 6 titles as main man :bowdown:

[poido123]

not really... allot of former players/coaches call kobe one of the top 5 ever

every poll has kobe top 5 too


only on message boards is he ranked top 7-9

and his career isnt even done yet. he could come back and play another 2-3 seasons

Top 5? LOL Kobe is not better than Kareem, Wilt, Jordan, Shaq, Bird, Magic or Russell. I have him at 11, behind James, Duncan and Hakeem 8, 9, and 10. Arguably Oscar is better than Kobe...

[kamil]

this guy will be remembered for ever

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/files/2012/03/0302_wilt-100.jpg

Can you post a high-res pic of that?

[kennethgriffin]

Top 5? LOL Kobe is not better than Kareem, Wilt, Jordan, Shaq, Bird, Magic or Russell. I have him at 11, behind James, Duncan and Hakeem 8, 9, and 10. Arguably Oscar is better than Kobe...


did you even read what i said... i said message board posters don't rank him top 5


you're a message board poster


we either overrate him or under rate him here... usually it balances out anywhere from top 6-9

you being part of the rare people that put him barely top 10 and list anyone within a mile of kobe ahead of him

you don't really matter

not saying i do either... just sayin majority of people on earth always vote kobe top 5

sometimes even top 3

he was only behind jordan and magic during the last sports nation poll

thats all that matters.

i can prove that bill russell is better than jordan on a message board. but where does that get me in the real world right?

[HeatFanSince88]

did you even read what i said... i said message board posters don't rank him top 5


you're a message board poster


we either overrate him or under rate him here... usually it balances out anywhere from top 6-9

you being part of the rare people that put him barely top 10 and list anyone within a mile of kobe ahead of him

you don't really matter

not saying i do either... just sayin majority of people on earth always vote kobe top 5

sometimes even top 3

he was only behind jordan and magic during the last sports nation poll

thats all that matters.

i can prove that bill russell is better than jordan on a message board. but where does that get me in the real world right?

So you value the opinion of a casual dude that watches a few games a year and only knows like 5 players over the opinion of someone that knows/studies the history of the game and debates it in their free time?

Well...that explains a lot. Arn't you the same retard that tried downplaying bigmen because their not as popular among casual fans? :oldlol:

[FKAri]

100 years from now no one will give a phuk.

[TheBigVeto]

All you have ever proven is that no-one should open your threads

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[blackification]

10-0 in game 7s 21-0 in ncaa, olympics, and nba. Give me russell anyday

[ThaRegul8r]

This thread was only made in order to further an agenda, not to promote any meaningful discussion.

[fpliii]

This thread was only made in order to further an agenda, not to promote any meaningful discussion.

True, BTW did you have the misfortune of reading this:


Here is Prime Russells numbers in my opinion when you adjust for pace regarding numbers of possessions and MPG

Adjusted: 11.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 2.7 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

Actual Numbers: 18.9 ppg, 23.6 rpg, 4.5 apg in his ~150 poss. per game. & 45.2 mpg.

In my opinion Russell was Ben Wallace before Ben Wallace. Good rebounder and defensive player but his titles was more to the fact that he played on a stacked franchise in an 8-team league more than his "dominance". If people are going to credit Russell so much for those titles then those same people should have Bob Cousy in their top ten. Otherwise their hypocrites

I thought the Cousy defense died when the Celtics had their then-best season to date in 64 (and arguably got even better in 65)?

[NBASTATMAN]

i proved kareem was better

now i'm proving russell is better

nobody can argue with titles

scoring is down compared to mike. but he was mainly a defensive anchor that grabbed 20-25 rebounds a game and ran the offense from the high post

that combined with his player/coach titles and theres no comparison


HONDO BETTER THAN kOBE AND MJ :rockon:

Hondo's stats are clearly better than Kobe cuz he played in the 70's. The defensive rating of the 70's shits on what defenses do now.. Shit Hondo may be AS GOOD AS MJ or even better. :rockon:

[sundizz]

if ben wallace won 11 titles and 5 mvps. then you'd have a point

Or if Bill Russell played in a league with players of comparable athleticism, strength...and oh let's say maybe 20 more teams that dilute the talent :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[Nashty]

http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2011/9/15/its-all-about-the-ws-bill-russell.html


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