simple reason why I think Jordan > Kobe or LeBron

[jzek]

Jordan never lost in the Finals and he was always the FMVP.

Kobe has 5 rings but he lost twice in the Finals and was FMVP only twice which means he got carried on the other 3 titles otherwise he would've won FMVP.

LBJ only has one ring and one FMVP and he has already lost in the Finals.

Thank you.

[NumberSix]

Robert Horry never lost in the finals either. 7 rings.

CP3 also, never lost in the finals.

[tikay0]

Lebron lost the 11' Finals on purpose because he didn't want Wade to get the FMVP. I'm sure of it.

Lebron is a mental midget.

[NumberSix]

Losing in the finals = more winning than losing in earlier rounds.

[razzredazzre]

Robert Horry never lost in the finals either. 7 rings.

CP3 also, never lost in the finals.

I know you're trying to make a point but really it's overused.... they're not in the same overall caliber players of the likes of Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, etc......

we're talking about who got the edge over someone when we're talking about "great" players..

[TheReal Kendall]

Russell got 11 rings though

[Kblaze8855]

My reasoning is also quite simple. He was more athletic than Kobe which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate....and when combined with better shot selection it made him a more reliable scorer...which combined with better and more game in game out high level defense makes him a better player.

Far as Lebron....Jordan simply....either had a greater desire to win or at least played angrier which made him appear to. He was also a better midrange shooter, man to man defender, and less likely to defer to a worse player down the stretch. If Lebron had Jordans "Something to prove" mentality he might be Jordan good...if he also had a better 10-18 foot game.

As things are...Jordan is just better.

He could have won 1 ring or 35. I dont need that information to see who was best among those three.

[Bandito]

Losing in the finals = more winning than losing in earlier rounds.
That logic:applause: :roll: :roll: :facepalm

[Mr. Jabbar]

there's a difference between losing a finals and single handedly costing your team a finals, lebron 2011 alone separates himself from kobe and jordan forever with this feat :applause:

[NumberSix]

That logic:applause: :roll: :roll: :facepalm
Is it not true?

[#number6ix#]

My reasoning is also quite simple. He was more athletic than Kobe which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate....and when combined with better shot selection it made him a more reliable scorer...which combined with better and more game in game out high level defense makes him a better player.

Far as Lebron....Jordan simply....either had a greater desire to win or at least played angrier which made him appear to. He was also a better midrange shooter, man to man defender, and less likely to defer to a worse player down the stretch. If Lebron had Jordans "Something to prove" mentality he might be Jordan good...if he also had a better 10-18 foot game.

As things are...Jordan is just better.

He could have won 1 ring or 35. I dont need that information to see who was best among those three.
Yet another great post by kblaze :applause: :cheers:

[andgar923]

Jordan never lost in the Finals and he was always the FMVP.

Kobe has 5 rings but he lost twice in the Finals and was FMVP only twice which means he got carried on the other 3 titles otherwise he would've won FMVP.

LBJ only has one ring and one FMVP and he has already lost in the Finals.

Thank you.
Simple reason why I think MJ >> Kobe or Bron

Logic

[NumberSix]

So, Melo has better career than Durant though, right? Melo never lost a finals.

[DMAVS41]

Simple.

Not only was MJ the better player in terms of what he could do on the floor on both ends...but he has better career achievements and performances than either of them as well.

If said player is just flat out better in terms of impact on the court...any number of titles or fmvps should never change that.

I mean...are we going to start saying Duncan was better than MJ if we somehow wins 2 more rings or something? Of course not.

We all know MJ was a better player than Duncan. Just like anyone that watched Kobe and MJ...knows MJ was easily the better player.

Lebron is more difficult because at his best...he's the only player I've seen since around 1975 that could have the impact MJ did. But Lebron is often not at his best and doesn't have that "it" the same way MJ did. There are also more holes in Lebron's game as well.

But the way Lebron played last year and this year so far...he's the only player I've seen that should be on that MJ level.

But that is where career stuff comes in. The idea that MJ puts up a performance like Lebron in the 11 finals at any point in his career is laughable. So that should matter when comparing them.

[Bandito]

But the way Lebron played last year and this year so far...he's the only player I've seen that should be on that MJ level. Honestly I think the same thing too. I wonder what was going through his mind when that happen. Is like he was blank or something. He didn't try to take over, or just chuck a lot of shots or nothing. He just disappeared. But boy DID he learn of that mistake...

[NumberSix]

Simple.

Not only was MJ the better player in terms of what he could do on the floor on both ends...but he has better career achievements and performances than either of them as well.

If said player is just flat out better in terms of impact on the court...any number of titles or fmvps should never change that.

I mean...are we going to start saying Duncan was better than MJ if we somehow wins 2 more rings or something? Of course not.

We all know MJ was a better player than Duncan. Just like anyone that watched Kobe and MJ...knows MJ was easily the better player.

Lebron is more difficult because at his best...he's the only player I've seen since around 1975 that could have the impact MJ did. But Lebron is often not at his best and doesn't have that "it" the same way MJ did. There are also more holes in Lebron's game as well.

But the way Lebron played last year and this year so far...he's the only player I've seen that should be on that MJ level.

But that is where career stuff comes in. The idea that MJ puts up a performance like Lebron in the 11 finals at any point in his career is laughable. So that should matter when comparing them.
The problem is with Jordan is that his myth has be blown out of proportion to a point that nobody could ever live up to..... Jordan included.

[DMAVS41]

The problem is with Jordan is that his myth has be blown out of proportion to a point that nobody could ever live up to..... Jordan included.

That may or may not be true...but that myth started in reality. He did amazing things...things Lebron hasn't touched so far.

And he didn't do pathetic things...10 celtics series and 11 finals like Lebron did.

If Lebron wants that "myth" he needs to have more "myth" creating moments. Like his legendary Pistons game and legendary Celtics game last year...and less "choking on the big stage" moments as well...

I mean...lets just take a second and realize the following.

MJ averaged 33/6/6 on excellent efficiency for his CAREER in the playoffs. He also happened to be a better overall defender than Lebron as well....and much better in crunch time. He never lost in the finals. He has many iconic moments in the playoffs.

There is no comparison so far.

[NumberSix]

That may or may not be true...but that myth started in reality. He did amazing things...things Lebron hasn't touched so far.

And he didn't do pathetic things...10 celtics series and 11 finals like Lebron did.

If Lebron wants that "myth" he needs to have more "myth" creating moments. Like his legendary Pistons game and legendary Celtics game last year...and less "choking on the big stage" moments as well...
Not really. I don't remember Jordan EVER having that game6 that LeBron had last season. I never saw him do that.

And of course Jordan has done pathetic things. Didn't have a playoff game where he was like 2 of 19?

Michael Jordan is just a human being. Not a god. Half the mythology about him is pushed by people who where 10 years old when they watched him play.

[Segatti]

This has nothing to do with FMVP's or losing in the finals. Jordan is the superior player, both offensively and defensively compared to Lebron and Kobe so he is the best player, simple like that.

[2010splash]

Jordan is better than LeBron, but LeBron is closer to Jordan than he is to Kobe. Honestly Kobe shouldn't be mentioned as being in the same class as those two.

Kobe is in the same category as Duncan and Bird when it comes to dominance. He honestly wasn't even the best peak SG of his own era (prime Wade was better).

Jordan and LeBron are almost on the same level of individual dominance, but Jordan has much more playoff success thus far and so is better at this moment. Kobe could never carry Cleveland's trash to 66 wins. He missed the playoffs without Shaq and lost in the first round.

[NumberSix]

That may or may not be true...but that myth started in reality. He did amazing things...things Lebron hasn't touched so far.

And he didn't do pathetic things...10 celtics series and 11 finals like Lebron did.

If Lebron wants that "myth" he needs to have more "myth" creating moments. Like his legendary Pistons game and legendary Celtics game last year...and less "choking on the big stage" moments as well...

I mean...lets just take a second and realize the following.

MJ averaged 33/6/6 on excellent efficiency for his CAREER in the playoffs. He also happened to be a better overall defender than Lebron as well....and much better in crunch time. He never lost in the finals. He has many iconic moments in the playoffs.

There is no comparison so far.
Says who?

I'm not even having this discussion. Their eras had wildly different defensive rules. Saying one is definitively better than the other defensively is absurd.

[Orlando Magic]

LeBron can carry scrub teams further than either of these guys can. I'm not going to give a long post as to why because I really don't give a **** if any of you believe me or not.

Dude's a straight up more impacting team basketball player. The other two are both better 1 on 1 players... which IDGAF about.

[DMAVS41]

Not really. I don't remember Jordan EVER having that game6 that LeBron had last season. I never saw him do that.

And of course Jordan has done pathetic things. Didn't have a playoff game where he was like 2 of 19?

Michael Jordan is just a human being. Not a god. Half the mythology about him is pushed by people who where 10 years old when they watched him play.

We aren't talking about just bad games. We are talking about some of the worst collapses out of a top 10 type player of all time...in the heart of his prime.

Comparing anything MJ ever did to the 11 Finals is a joke.

You don't remember MJ ever having a game as good as Lebron's? Well...then you either didn't watch or you have a terrible memory.

[andgar923]

My reasoning is also quite simple. He was more athletic than Kobe which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate....and when combined with better shot selection it made him a more reliable scorer...which combined with better and more game in game out high level defense makes him a better player.

Far as Lebron....Jordan simply....either had a greater desire to win or at least played angrier which made him appear to. He was also a better midrange shooter, man to man defender, and less likely to defer to a worse player down the stretch. If Lebron had Jordans "Something to prove" mentality he might be Jordan good...if he also had a better 10-18 foot game.

As things are...Jordan is just better.

He could have won 1 ring or 35. I dont need that information to see who was best among those three.


Just to add to this, the main reason why MJ separates himself from everybody else is CONSISTENCY.

Yes there was other players with big games, big moments and big numbers.
Yes there's been other players that had similar skill set and athletic abilities.
Yes there's a comparison that can be made between MJ and other player.

But MJ was more CONSISTENT.

It reminds me of the times when Kobe stans try to flaunt some of Kobe's playoff stats for a series, but don't realize that his great stats for a specific series were basically MJ's CAREER stats, not just a series.

I was talking to a co-worker about MJ and other players and I told him that everybody can make tough shots. But only the great players can make easy shots. To be so good that even tho the defense is concentrating on you, yet you still manage to make easy shots is a feat that only great players can do. Kobe can do that, just not as consistently as MJ. Bron has started to learn how to do that, but he is still not to that level yet.

MJ could make his share of tough shots, but he always found a way to make easy shots for himself, which is impressive considering the defense is focused on him.

[NumberSix]

We aren't talking about just bad games. We are talking about some of the worst collapses out of a top 10 type player of all time...in the heart of his prime.

Comparing anything MJ ever did to the 11 Finals is a joke.

You don't remember MJ ever having a game as good as Lebron's? Well...then you either didn't watch or you have a terrible memory.
Feel free to point one out.

[DMAVS41]

Says who?

I'm not even having this discussion. Their eras had wildly different defensive rules. Saying one is definitively better than the other defensively is absurd.

Not at all. Anyone that watched them both play knows this. I've defended Lebron's defense for years on here...but MJ was on a different level defensively.

You are just proving you never really watched the Bulls play...quite obvious.

There is a reason why MJ was essentially the GOAT after his 1st or 2nd title....and it's not a myth...it's reality.

If anything...Lebron is the one going off of myth more actually.

[Mr. Jabbar]

We aren't talking about just bad games. We are talking about some of the worst collapses out of a top 10 type player of all time...in the heart of his prime.

Comparing anything MJ ever did to the 11 Finals is a joke.

You don't remember MJ ever having a game as good as Lebron's? Well...then you either didn't watch or you have a terrible memory.

plus lebron didnt have a bad finals game, he had a shameful series, theres nothing even to compare, that loser cost his super friends a championship, tainted for ever

[NumberSix]

Not at all. Anyone that watched them both play knows this. I've defended Lebron's defense for years on here...but MJ was on a different level defensively.

You are just proving you never really watched the Bulls play...quite obvious.

There is a reason why MJ was essentially the GOAT after his 1st or 2nd title....and it's not a myth...it's reality.

If anything...Lebron is the one going off of myth more actually.
How old are you my man?

[DMAVS41]

Feel free to point one out.

Like...the exact same stats or something? ROFL

Jordan's last game as a Bull was just as good or better...even though the stats won't reflect it.

His 55 against the Suns in the 93 finals...definitely as good or better. There are a lot more, but....you know...keep thinking he's all myth.

[NumberSix]

Like...the exact same stats or something? ROFL

Jordan's last game as a Bull was just as good or better...even though the stats won't reflect it.
:rolleyes:

[DMAVS41]

:rolleyes:

this just proves my point. you have no clue what you are talking about.

given the circumstances, that was one of the best games i've ever seen played.

[NumberSix]

this just proves my point. you have no clue what you are talking about.

given the circumstances, that was one of the best games i've ever seen played.
So, you said you were how old?

[BlackVVaves]

Lebron's a great defender. But in terms of consistent defensive dominance, and specifically man to man defense, he hasn't displayed that he's as good as Jordan (or Pippen) was defensively.

Just my two cents.

[Legends66NBA7]

Michael Jordan was a more consistent regular season and playoff performer than Kobe Bryant and LeBron James.

All there is to it, really.

[DatAsh]

My reasoning is also quite simple. He was more athletic than Kobe which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate....and when combined with better shot selection it made him a more reliable scorer...which combined with better and more game in game out high level defense makes him a better player.

Far as Lebron....Jordan simply....either had a greater desire to win or at least played angrier which made him appear to. He was also a better midrange shooter, man to man defender, and less likely to defer to a worse player down the stretch. If Lebron had Jordans "Something to prove" mentality he might be Jordan good...if he also had a better 10-18 foot game.

As things are...Jordan is just better.

He could have won 1 ring or 35. I dont need that information to see who was best among those three.

That reasoning is more reasonable.

[pauk]

Jordan never lost in the Finals and he was always the FMVP.

Kobe has 5 rings but he lost twice in the Finals and was FMVP only twice which means he got carried on the other 3 titles otherwise he would've won FMVP.

LBJ only has one ring and one FMVP and he has already lost in the Finals.

Thank you.

What the hell... a Heat/Lebron fan with Kobetard troll logic?

You dont understand the problem with that logic do you?

Player A:
Loses in the 1st round and/or misses playoffs for 3 years and next year gets to Finals and wins = 1 / 1 in Finals.

or

Player B:
Loses in the Finals for 3 years and next year gets to Finals again and wins = 1 / 4 in Finals.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Feel free to point one out.


His 55 against the Suns in the 93 finals

:confusedshrug:

[pauk]

Lebron's a great defender. But in terms of consistent defensive dominance, and specifically man to man defense, he hasn't displayed that he's as good as Jordan (or Pippen) was defensively.

Just my two cents.

Yes, but Lebron effectively defends all other positions compared to Jordan who would guard only SG or a PG at times.... let that one sink in... Pippen though was just as versatile of defender but he couldnt guard Centers for example as effectively (he could, but not exactly as effective) mostly due to about 1 inch, 50 lbs and a portion of athleticism less....

[DatAsh]

Yes, but Lebron defends 4 other positions compared to Jordan.... let that one sink in... Pippen though was just as versatile of defender but he couldnt guard Centers for example as effectively (he could, but not exactly as effective) due to about 1 inch and 50 lbs less....

Jordan was better defending the SG, and PG positions. Lebron is better at defending the other 3. Jordan at his best was still a notch or two above Lebron defensively, though it would be interesting to see how Lebron would utilize handchecking.

[BlackVVaves]

Michael Jordan was a more consistent regular season and playoff performer than Kobe Bryant and LeBron James.

All there is to it, really.

Pretty much.

Kobe, in reality, only had a couple seasons that were really comparable to Jordan.

From 2006 to 2008, he averaged 32, 6, and 5 on 46% FG, 57% TS.

And even so, those years weren't as good as Jordan's, just...Jordan-esque. If you are going to compare just those years, Kobe was not even in the same league with Jordan defensively...and yet, Jordan would put up those numbers, on better efficiency, with un-worldly defense.

As for Lebron, in terms of impact, he has the potential to have the same comprehensive effect on a game as peak MJ and peak Kareem did, however he's just not there yet. I'd like to see him for the next couple of seasons really commit to dominating the game defensively, as well as score, rebound, and distribute the ball as he has been these last 2 seasons. If he can do that....

[pauk]

My reasoning is also quite simple. He was more athletic than Kobe which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate....and when combined with better shot selection it made him a more reliable scorer...which combined with better and more game in game out high level defense makes him a better player.


Far as Lebron....Jordan simply.... either had a greater desire to win or at least played angrier which made him appear to.
He was also a better midrange shooter, man to man defender, and less likely to defer to a worse player down the stretch. If Lebron had Jordans "Something to prove" mentality he might be Jordan good...if he also had a better 10-18 foot game.

Kblaze you were really not so benovelent & honest in your Jordan/Lebron comparison, you basically told everything Jordan was better at and left out EVERYTHING Lebron is better at extremly clearly:

*Offensive & Defensive versatility (lets just say he could guard & play more positions)
*Rebounding
*Passing ability & court vision

At the end of the day i hate comparing those two players.... completely different games & MINDSETS (which you were talking about)...... the mindset of Jordan having a greater desire to win than Lebron is extremly combative, but Jordan sure had a different mindset, he was more scoring minded, more agressive scoring wise and his persona was just more serious...... where as Lebrons mindset was more similar to Magic, more unselfish is the word and not "defering to a worse player down the stretch" :rolleyes: Being doubled and kicking it out to example a wideopen shooter like Ray Allen / Mike Miller / James Jones is a very fundamental & logical basketball play.... yes those players are worse than Lebron, but not at hitting wideopen jumpshots... i would take any pure shooting specialist over Jordan or Lebron or ANYBODY to take the wideopen shot, especially in god damn last second gamewinning/gamelosing situations.....

Because the mindsets/styles are different that doesnt mean one mindset/style is better....


You have been fair in your Kobe/Jordan comparison though, way to fair imo.... in reality Michael Jordan was better at EVERYTHING (tied only in the FT/3PT department).... its factual, objective, rational and extremly simple aswell...

Unlike Lebron there is not a single thing Kobe was better at than Jordan, whatsoever... nada...

[BlackVVaves]

Yes, but Lebron effectively defends all other positions compared to Jordan who would guard only SG or a PG at times.... let that one sink in... Pippen though was just as versatile of defender but he couldnt guard Centers for example as effectively (he could, but not exactly as effective) mostly due to about 1 inch, 50 lbs and a portion of athleticism less....

Let me preface by saying that, please spare me the "he can defend centers" sentiment...let me see Lebron lock down Marc Gasol, a healthy Andrew Bynum, or even Tim Duncan in the post for a game or series and then I'll concede credibility to this notion that Lebron can guard all 5 positions. Defending Kendrick Perkins or Noah, or those type of centers doesn't apply, at least not for me.

As we proceed. Though versatility accounts for something, it doesn't replace impact. We've all seen MJ completely shut down opposing stars for entire halves and games before. It was so bad that he would just shut down an entire side of the floor for spurts of time, similiar to an elite cornerback in football. I've literally never seen Lebron do this. KD still scored 30 points per game on 50% in the Finals against the Heat last year. If you tell me that's because Lebron wasn't guarding him, that tells me that he wasn't up to the challenge or wasn't confident in him being able to slow KD down. If you tell me he did guard KD, then that tells me that he wasn't as effective a defender as he is made out to be.

He certainly has the tools to be a shut down defender though, and that's why I think it's still within the realm of possiblity for him to grow into a more treacherous defender role. Like MJ was...like Pippen was. But, he's not there yet.

[Segatti]

Says who?

I'm not even having this discussion. Their eras had wildly different defensive rules. Saying one is definitively better than the other defensively is absurd.

lol :lol

Lebron just can't shut down players like Jordan did, just deal with it.

[veilside23]

jordan is the goat

then there's everyone else...

and about lebron defending all positions is a myth... no player can guard all positions on a consistent basis .. KG is the closest in my book . Lebron's defense is quite overrated actually .. he has been in the league for a decade now and he never led the league in steals as oppose to MJ who has won it 3 times. He never led the league in blocks because in reality lebron is just good in chasing small guys and goes up for the block.. defensively dwade is better than lebron .

scoring MJ's go to move is money ... i find it hard to believe that lebron doesnt have a go to move? if he does please educate me . A go to move is not a buzzer beater shot. kobe on the other hand is like a 90% MJ when it comes to offense.. maybe better at the 3 point shot but MJ's midgame is money even at age 40 :)

its just sad that young kids can only see the highlights of MJ.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Let me get this right going to the finals is worse than the being eliminated in the first/second or third or even missing the playoffs.

Fail logic

Yes it's worse, because if your team sucks, you get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round.

But if your team is good enough to reach the Finals, you are good enough to win the ring. So losing in the Finals is worse than losing in the 1st or 2nd round.

[shady6121]

My reasoning is also quite simple. He was more athletic than Kobe which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate....and when combined with better shot selection it made him a more reliable scorer...which combined with better and more game in game out high level defense makes him a better player.

Far as Lebron....Jordan simply....either had a greater desire to win or at least played angrier which made him appear to. He was also a better midrange shooter, man to man defender, and less likely to defer to a worse player down the stretch. If Lebron had Jordans "Something to prove" mentality he might be Jordan good...if he also had a better 10-18 foot game.

As things are...Jordan is just better.

He could have won 1 ring or 35. I dont need that information to see who was best among those three.

This. :applause:

[Reginald Kyle]

Jordan was a better defender than both.

[Solefade]

Like...the exact same stats or something? ROFL

Jordan's last game as a Bull was just as good or better...even though the stats won't reflect it.

His 55 against the Suns in the 93 finals...definitely as good or better. There are a lot more, but....you know...keep thinking he's all myth.


Sorry but his 55 pt performance doesn't measure up to LeBron's game in Boston last year. It didn't have the same narrative and pressure.

LeBron is the most scrutinized athlete in the history of professional sports. He came into that game with extreme astronomical pressure know that this game would make or break his career. He put the team on his back and literally played like he was being controlled by God himself. A lot of historians of the game would agree that it was the greatest and most transcendent playoffs performance ever.

[veilside23]

Sorry but his 55 pt performance doesn't measure up to LeBron's game in Boston last year. It didn't have the same narrative and pressure.

LeBron is the most scrutinized athlete in the history of professional sports. He came into that game with extreme astronomical pressure, put the team on his back and literally played like he was being controlled by God himself. A lot of historians of the game would agree that it was the greatest playoffs performance ever.


U NEED TO ****ING GET OFF LEBRONS NUTS .. seems like you eat sleep and dream of lebron .. damn if lebron wants to have a child i might also be the one to give birth to it...

I cant believe that someone would say such .... Greatest playoff performance my a$$ he lost dude... he may have put 45 points but he lost....

[2010splash]

U NEED TO ****ING GET OFF LEBRONS NUTS .. seems like you eat sleep and dream of lebron .. damn if lebron wants to have a child i might also be the one to give birth to it...

I cant believe that someone would say such .... Greatest playoff performance my a$$ he lost dude... he may have put 45 points but he lost....
No, he won. The Heat won the game. :oldlol:

[BlackVVaves]

U NEED TO ****ING GET OFF LEBRONS NUTS .. seems like you eat sleep and dream of lebron .. damn if lebron wants to have a child i might also be the one to give birth to it...

I cant believe that someone would say such .... Greatest playoff performance my a$$ he lost dude... he may have put 45 points but he lost....

Though the rest of your post is both comical and accurate, you're embarrassingly wrong about the bolded part. Do you follow basketball?

[BlackVVaves]

Sorry but his 55 pt performance doesn't measure up to LeBron's game in Boston last year. It didn't have the same narrative and pressure.

LeBron is the most scrutinized athlete in the history of professional sports. He came into that game with extreme astronomical pressure know that this game would make or break his career. He put the team on his back and literally played like he was being controlled by God himself. A lot of historians of the game would agree that it was the greatest and most transcendent playoffs performance ever.

Jordan has had more dominant playoff performances than Lebron has thusfar. That's simply a fact; choosing to ignore so is choosing to be ignorant to the history of the game for the sole purpose of propping up your favorite player.

Also known as, stanhood.

[Solefade]

U NEED TO ****ING GET OFF LEBRONS NUTS .. seems like you eat sleep and dream of lebron .. damn if lebron wants to have a child i might also be the one to give birth to it...

I cant believe that someone would say such .... Greatest playoff performance my a$$ he lost dude... he may have put 45 points but he lost....


That performance deserved at least a handy for sure. Just giving credit where it's due. :confusedshrug:



Also, you're a dumbass. :applause:

[kNicKz]

Kobe has 5 rings but he lost twice in the Finals and was FMVP only twice which means he got carried on the other 3 titles otherwise he would've won FMVP.



April 2013

[veilside23]

That performance deserved at least a handy for sure. Just giving credit where it's due. :confusedshrug:



Also, you're a dumbass. :applause:

am a dumbass ??? good one then that makes you 9 years old :) ....

that was one of the greatest but pierce actually got more credit on that win .. lebron may have scored as much but was he able to defend pierce effectively?

Jordan can go 60 points but the other guy wont even be able to score 40 .. damn it try to become a better basketball fan.. and stop sucking lbj's dck sometimes :P

[Cali Syndicate]

this just proves my point. you have no clue what you are talking about.

given the circumstances, that was one of the best games i've ever seen played.

Even Phil Jackson attributes that game to be one MJ's best career games.

[Solefade]

Jordan has had more dominant playoff performances than Lebron has thusfar. That's simply a fact; choosing to ignore so is choosing to be ignorant to the history of the game for the sole purpose of propping up your favorite player.

Also known as, stanhood.


I'm not saying LeBron had MORE dominant performances than Jordan. We all know Jordan has an untouchable career. All I'm saying is, he had a stigma of the biggest superstar choker ever. But on the biggest stage, with the most pressure any professional athlete has ever faced, he responded after failing miserably the year prior. Remember that no one picked MIA to win that game 6 in Boston.

LeBron was literally under the microscope of the media and they were all ready to set him on fire as soon as he lost, but he didn't. The narratives weren't the same for Jordan.

Of course this is all debatable, call it stanning or whatever you want but elimination Game 6 in Boston > Game 4 in Phoenix while up 2-1.

[SamuraiSWISH]

My reasoning is also quite simple. He was more athletic than Kobe which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate....and when combined with better shot selection it made him a more reliable scorer...which combined with better and more game in game out high level defense makes him a better player.

Far as Lebron....Jordan simply....either had a greater desire to win or at least played angrier which made him appear to. He was also a better midrange shooter, man to man defender, and less likely to defer to a worse player down the stretch. If Lebron had Jordans "Something to prove" mentality he might be Jordan good...if he also had a better 10-18 foot game.

As things are...Jordan is just better.

He could have won 1 ring or 35. I dont need that information to see who was best among those three.:pimp:

[BlackVVaves]

I'm not saying LeBron had MORE dominant performances than Jordan. We all know Jordan has an untouchable career. All I'm saying is, he had a stigma of the biggest superstar choker ever. But on the biggest stage, with the most pressure any professional athlete has ever faced, he responded after failing miserably the year prior. Remember that no one picked MIA to win that game 6 in Boston.

LeBron was literally under the microscope of the media and they were all ready to set him on fire as soon as he lost, but he didn't. The narratives weren't the same for Jordan.

Of course this is all debatable, call it stanning or whatever you want but elimination Game 6 in Boston > Game 4 in Phoenix while up 2-1.

Ok, I see where you're coming from. Yes, given the external circumstances, that win was heavily weighted on the impressive scale in terms of timely dominance. I certainly agree there.

However, I think you're relinquishing the significance of a player going for 55 points on 57% shooting in the NBA Finals.

[dh144498]

Lebron lost the 11' Finals on purpose because he didn't want Wade to get the FMVP. I'm sure of it.

Lebron is a mental midget.

:applause: :applause:

[Alan Ogg]

Magic Johnson lost in 4 Finals appearances!! What a scrub.

[deja vu]

MJ = 5 MVPs, 6 titles as the main man, 6/6 in Finals

LeBron = 4 MVPs, 1 title as questionable main man, 1/3 in Finals

Kobe = 1 MVP, 2 titles as main man, 5/7 in Finals

You know who's the best... :banana:

[DMAVS41]

MJ = 5 MVPs, 6 titles as the main man, 6/6 in Finals

LeBron = 4 MVPs, 1 title as questionable main man, 1/3 in Finals

Kobe = 1 MVP, 2 titles as main man, 5/7 in Finals

You know who's the best... :banana:

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[jzek]

MJ = 5 MVPs, 6 titles as the main man, 6/6 in Finals

LeBron = 4 MVPs, 1 title as questionable main man, 1/3 in Finals

Kobe = 1 MVP, 2 titles as main man, 5/7 in Finals

You know who's the best... :banana:

Pretty much.

You can't be the "GOAT" if you've lost in the Finals ***and*** you aren't always the FMVP.

[I<3NBA]

here's why MJ's the greatest: because.

[ZeN]

My reasoning is also quite simple. He was more athletic than Kobe which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate....and when combined with better shot selection it made him a more reliable scorer...which combined with better and more game in game out high level defense makes him a better player.

Far as Lebron....Jordan simply....either had a greater desire to win or at least played angrier which made him appear to. He was also a better midrange shooter, man to man defender, and less likely to defer to a worse player down the stretch. If Lebron had Jordans "Something to prove" mentality he might be Jordan good...if he also had a better 10-18 foot game.

As things are...Jordan is just better.

He could have won 1 ring or 35. I dont need that information to see who was best among those three.
Absolutely This.

[NumberSix]

Ok, I see where you're coming from. Yes, given the external circumstances, that win was heavily weighted on the impressive scale in terms of timely dominance. I certainly agree there.

However, I think you're relinquishing the significance of a player going for 55 points on 57% shooting in the NBA Finals.
45 points on 73%, 15 rebounds and 5 assists in THAT game is clearly more impressive.

Stop being a Jordan mythologist. Many all time great performances, but he never did that.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

45 points on 73%, 15 rebounds and 5 assists in THAT game is clearly more impressive.

Stop being a Jordan mythologist. Many all time great performances, but he never did that.

Jordan's 55 points in a finals game, against the leagues MVP, was just as impressive. Quit being dense.

[K Xerxes]

Going by the GOAT list, which means judging careers as a whole in most peoples' eyes, Jordan stands at the top of the three, no question. And that's unlikely to change. It's all because Jordan at his lowest never came close to LeBron at his lowest. I'm mainly talking about '11, but the final couple of games of '10 factor in partly. Jordan certainly had sub-standard performances over his career, but never like that on the biggest stage.

Not only that, but he sustained his championship dominance over a 6 year period. He never missed a beat when it came to prolonged dominance, even when he wasn't winning titles with his weak supporting cast. 6 titles, 6 finals MVPs, 5 MVPs... only Russell comes close to that, and Russell was never combined offense and defense like Jordan.

Jordan is the greatest player ever.

However, what I'm seeing now from LeBron... it is something unique. What I mean is going just from his play right now (thus forgoing his '11 performance) is something I have never seen before. It is the ability to combine dominance over all aspects of the game and consistently churn out great performances to help his team win. His understanding of the game, what is needed at particular times, combined with the actual ability to do it, is what is so special.

This LeBron is literally the closest I have seen to Jordan. Jordan was a better scorer and a better man to man defender. But LeBron is more effective on the boards (virtue of his size and strength) as well as a better passer and help defender. They're different but the dominance they exert overall is similar. The edge I would give to Jordan is that 'it' factor. Jordan had that 'something' which LeBron is said not to have... but that game 6 performance against Boston proved to me what this LeBron has that when his back is against the wall. The 40-18-9 against Indiana only reinforces that further.

Depending on what transpires in the next few years (big if), I could genuinely see LeBron going down as the best player of all time. Don't confuse this with career greatness, LeBron is unlikely to touch Jordan in that regard. But as a purely better basketball player in peak years? Who knows.

This is just my opinion.

[NumberSix]

Jordan's 55 points in a finals game, against the leagues MVP, was just as impressive. Quit being dense.
Oh yeah. In game 4 where neither team was at risk of being eliminated. Sure thing pal. :roll:

15 rebounds, 5 assists > 8 rebounds, 4 assists


Unless you're gonna act like 55 on 56.8% is somehow better than 45 on 73.1%, there's nothing to argue here.

Stop being a fcuking hater. You know deep down that LeBron's game was better. It's not even really close.

[Solefade]

Going by the GOAT list, which means judging careers as a whole in most peoples' eyes, Jordan stands at the top of the three, no question. And that's unlikely to change. It's all because Jordan at his lowest never came close to LeBron at his lowest. I'm mainly talking about '11, but the final couple of games of '10 factor in partly. Jordan certainly had sub-standard performances over his career, but never like that on the biggest stage.

Not only that, but he sustained his championship dominance over a 6 year period. He never missed a beat when it came to prolonged dominance, even when he wasn't winning titles with his weak supporting cast. 6 titles, 6 finals MVPs, 5 MVPs... only Russell comes close to that, and Russell was never combined offense and defense like Jordan.

Jordan is the greatest player ever.

However, what I'm seeing now from LeBron... it is something unique. What I mean is going just from his play right now (thus forgoing his '11 performance) is something I have never seen before. It is the ability to combine dominance over all aspects of the game and consistently churn out great performances to help his team win. His understanding of the game, what is needed at particular times, combined with the actual ability to do it, is what is so special.

This LeBron is literally the closest I have seen to Jordan. Jordan was a better scorer and a better man to man defender. But LeBron is more effective on the boards (virtue of his size and strength) as well as a better passer and help defender. They're different but the dominance they exert overall is similar. The edge I would give to Jordan is that 'it' factor. Jordan had that 'something' which LeBron is said not to have... but that game 6 performance against Boston proved to me what this LeBron has that when his back is against the wall. The 40-18-9 against Indiana only reinforces that further.

Depending on what transpires in the next few years (big if), I could genuinely see LeBron going down as the best player of all time. Don't confuse this with career greatness, LeBron is unlikely to touch Jordan in that regard. But as a purely better basketball player in peak years? Who knows.

This is just my opinion.

Good objective post. :applause:


I agree, LeBron probably won't get 6 rings and match Jordan's resume overall. But I believe he will win more MVPs (I'm guessing he can win 7) and it will be very debatable who was the GOAT during their peaks.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Oh yeah. In game 4 where neither team was at risk of being eliminated. Sure thing pal. :roll:




Unless you're gonna act like 55 on 56.8% is somehow better than 45 on 73.1%, there's nothing to argue here.

Stop being a fcuking hater. You no deep down that LeBron's game was better. It's even really close.

It's the finals, you clown. The Bulls also lost 2 of their HOME games in that series, so lets not act like his 55 points wasn't needed.


15 rebounds, 5 assists > 8 rebounds, 4 assists

Nice argument. My turn.

55 on the biggest stage >>> 45 against an old Celtics team
4 assists on the biggest stage >>> 5 against an old Celtics team

[Solefade]

It's the finals, you clown. The Bulls also lost 2 of their HOME games in that series, so lets not act like his 55 points wasn't needed.



Nice argument. My turn.

55 on the biggest stage >>> 45 against an old Celtics team
4 assists on the biggest stage >>> 5 against an old Celtics team

:facepalm

First off, Bulls only lost one at home in game 5 and one at PHX in game 3.


Second, the 55 points was just a great performance but it was nowhere near the pressure LeBron was facing. Regardless of what round it is ECF or finals, Game 4 in PHX while you're up 2-1 is nowhere near the same pressure as an elimination game 6 in Boston while down 2-3 and he ended the game in 3 quarters all on his own basically.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:facepalm

First off, Bulls only lost one at home in game 5 and one at PHX in game 3.

Stop posting and educate yourself.

[Odinn]

Insecure fans are just as bad as stans...

[chosen_wun]

Kobe has the "It" factor like Jordan but didnt have the natural talent. LeBron has the natural talent like Jordan but doesnt have the "It" factor... well supposedly.

In ECF game 6 we saw LeBron approach the game the same way Jordan or Kobe would, and he made it look so much easier too. But maybe it was a flash in the pan performance, who knows.

[ripthekik]

:facepalm

First off, Bulls only lost one at home in game 5 and one at PHX in game 3.



From the source you just posted:
Game 1 Wed, June 9 Chicago Bulls 100 @ Phoenix Suns 92
Game 2 Fri, June 11 Chicago Bulls 111 @ Phoenix Suns 108
Game 3 Sun, June 13 Phoenix Suns 129 @ Chicago Bulls 121
Game 4 Wed, June 16 Phoenix Suns 105 @ Chicago Bulls 111
Game 5 Fri, June 18 Phoenix Suns 108 @ Chicago Bulls 98
Game 6 Sun, June 20 Chicago Bulls 99 @ Phoenix Suns 98

game 3 at PHX? :lol
nothing to see here, another retarded lebron fan.


edit: lol this biitch ass deleted his post where he posted http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1993.html and told kuniva to get educated :lol

[Solefade]

Stop posting and educate yourself.


Welp, I totally forgot the first two games were in PHX not CHI my mistake.

But regardless, elimination Game 6 in Boston > Game 4 at home up 2-1.

[DatAsh]

Going by the GOAT list, which means judging careers as a whole in most peoples' eyes, Jordan stands at the top of the three, no question. And that's unlikely to change. It's all because Jordan at his lowest never came close to LeBron at his lowest. I'm mainly talking about '11, but the final couple of games of '10 factor in partly. Jordan certainly had sub-standard performances over his career, but never like that on the biggest stage.

Not only that, but he sustained his championship dominance over a 6 year period. He never missed a beat when it came to prolonged dominance, even when he wasn't winning titles with his weak supporting cast. 6 titles, 6 finals MVPs, 5 MVPs... only Russell comes close to that, and Russell was never combined offense and defense like Jordan.

Jordan is the greatest player ever.

However, what I'm seeing now from LeBron... it is something unique. What I mean is going just from his play right now (thus forgoing his '11 performance) is something I have never seen before. It is the ability to combine dominance over all aspects of the game and consistently churn out great performances to help his team win. His understanding of the game, what is needed at particular times, combined with the actual ability to do it, is what is so special.

This LeBron is literally the closest I have seen to Jordan. Jordan was a better scorer and a better man to man defender. But LeBron is more effective on the boards (virtue of his size and strength) as well as a better passer and help defender. They're different but the dominance they exert overall is similar. The edge I would give to Jordan is that 'it' factor. Jordan had that 'something' which LeBron is said not to have... but that game 6 performance against Boston proved to me what this LeBron has that when his back is against the wall. The 40-18-9 against Indiana only reinforces that further.

Depending on what transpires in the next few years (big if), I could genuinely see LeBron going down as the best player of all time. Don't confuse this with career greatness, LeBron is unlikely to touch Jordan in that regard. But as a purely better basketball player in peak years? Who knows.

This is just my opinion.

Lebron is a more versatile defender than Jordan, but he's not a better help defender. Many regard Jordan as the best help defender ever. That's what he was known for on that end of the floor. Lebron's a great help defender, but he's not in that "greatest ever" tier, at least not yet. He mentioned that it's one of his goals to win DPOY, so I imagine he'll continue to improve on that end of the floor.

[DatAsh]

Kobe has the "It" factor like Jordan but didnt have the natural talent. LeBron has the natural talent like Jordan but doesnt have the "It" factor... well supposedly.


What is the "it" factor? All that should matter is how much you do to help your team win.

[hawke812]

Jordan never lost in the Finals and he was always the FMVP.

Kobe has 5 rings but he lost twice in the Finals and was FMVP only twice which means he got carried on the other 3 titles otherwise he would've won FMVP.

LBJ only has one ring and one FMVP and he has already lost in the Finals.

Thank you.

Jordan Facts:

1. All first round exits without GOAT Pippen

2. 1W-9L Playoff Record without GOAT Pippen

3. Zero Finals MVPs without GOAT Pippen

4. Zero chips without GOAT Pippen

5. Won chips in most watered down era in NBA history

I witnessed it all. Get your crap outta here.

[DatAsh]

Yes it's worse, because if your team sucks, you get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round.

But if your team is good enough to reach the Finals, you are good enough to win the ring. So losing in the Finals is worse than losing in the 1st or 2nd round.

Winning the 1st round, 2nd round, and 3rd round is always better than winning no rounds. This shouldn't be up for debate.

[Legends66NBA7]

Insecure fans are just as bad as stans...

The 3 worst player stan bases are all mentioned in the title, so it's mostly stans in here.

[chosen_wun]

What is the "it" factor? All that should matter is how much you do to help your team win.
My interpretation of having the "It" factor is playing without the fear of failing and instead relentlessly playing with the goal in mind to humiliate and assinate your opponent. Otherwise known as Killer Instinct.

LeBron will show this for stretches but then will elect to take his foot off the pedal when he no longer feels that he needs to assert himself to win. Theres nothing wrong with that in theory but sometimes you just need to demoralize your opponent, dont let up on the gas even if your up 10-15.

[DatAsh]

My interpretation of having the "It" factor is playing without the fear of failing and instead relentlessly playing with the goal in mind to humiliate and assinate your opponent. Otherwise known as Killer Instinct.

LeBron will show this for stretches but then will elect to take his foot off the pedal when he no longer feels that he needs to assert himself to win. Theres nothing wrong with that in theory but sometimes you just need to demoralize your opponent, dont let up on the gas even if your up 10-15.

Would you say Magic Johnson had the "it" factor? Bill Russell? I think different players go about helping their teams in different ways, and any one way isn't inherently better than any other.

[chosen_wun]

Would you say Magic Johnson had the "it" factor? Bill Russell? I think different players go about helping their teams in different ways, and any one way isn't inherently better than any other.
The difference is LeBron has all the tools to take over games in a way those guys couldnt. IMHO he can and he should more often.

Being meek and passive gets you 2011's finals. Being domineering and emphatic gets you 2012's run.

[SpecialQue]

Simple reason why I think OP is an idiot:


Jordan never lost in the Finals and he was always the FMVP.

Kobe has 5 rings but he lost twice in the Finals and was FMVP only twice which means he got carried on the other 3 titles otherwise he would've won FMVP.

LBJ only has one ring and one FMVP and he has already lost in the Finals.

Thank you.

Thank you.

[K Xerxes]

Lebron is a more versatile defender than Jordan, but he's not a better help defender. Many regard Jordan as the best help defender ever. That's what he was known for on that end of the floor. Lebron's a great help defender, but he's not in that "greatest ever" tier, at least not yet. He mentioned that it's one of his goals to win DPOY, so I imagine he'll continue to improve on that end of the floor.

Eh, because I'm sure Jordan made his defensive name for his man to man defense, the ability to lock down one player and drop 35 on the offensive end. Jordan was spectacular in that regard in his first few years.

Don't get me wrong, he was a great help defender, but LeBron is terrific too. Not only that, Miami's defensive system is conducive to help defense. Perhaps it was too bold to say better than Jordan, and you're right that he is more versatile. My point was that their impact was similar.

And, Jordan as the greatest help defender ever? From what I've seen and heard, Russell is pretty much unanimously regarded as that...

[tobethdope]

the thing with mj is, that people just havnt seen him lose after he got his first ring, sure he lost in his comeback season and as an old guy, but most people kinda dismiss these seasons i think, and this is not completely unreasonable imo, at least these seasons have an asterix in jordans career.
so the six ring winning seasons are pretty much the last seasons he played on a high competetive level in terms of shape and preperation.
he figuered out how to win and repeated this in every of the 5 proper shots he had after that, which is insanly unlikely - and he was the main reason the won, he just wudnt let them lose, he is the ultimate winner - and he was ****ing spectacular:cheers:

[Nick Young]

there's a difference between losing a finals and single handedly costing your team a finals, lebron 2011 alone separates himself from kobe and jordan forever with this feat :applause:
omg i remember that:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Lebron's biggest accomplishment in his career is something people will eventually forget. When he led the Cavs to beat the Pistons in 6 that was a peak for him.

[SwayDizzle]

lawd lawdbe lawdbenson is second. MJ > DA LAWD > LEbronzina

[SpecialQue]

Jordan and Shaq get the most excuses from people on ISH. Like when the Bulls lost to the Magic in 95, some bullshit about Jordan being "rusty," like that's a valid excuse. Or that same year, Shaq getting swept in the finals. ISH posters pick and choose random bullshit to prop up whatever player they're sexually attracted to. The fact is, the only player to have close to a perfect career was Russell, only that "doesn't count" because the majority of posters on ISH think that a small league with a much more densely-packed collection of talent is "worse" than the modern league where talent is spread wafer-thin.

[NumberSix]

Jordan and Shaq get the most excuses from people on ISH. Like when the Bulls lost to the Magic in 95, some bullshit about Jordan being "rusty," like that's a valid excuse. Or that same year, Shaq getting swept in the finals. ISH posters pick and choose random bullshit to prop up whatever player they're sexually attracted to. The fact is, the only player to have close to a perfect career was Russell, only that "doesn't count" because the majority of posters on ISH think that a small league with a much more densely-packed collection of talent is "worse" than the modern league where talent is spread wafer-thin.
Obviously. How can anybody surpass Jordan when we've apparently decided the criteria for GOAT is taylor made to be exactly what fits into whatever criteria decides Jordan is the GOAT?

[dh144498]

Michael Jordan was a more consistent regular season and playoff performer than Kobe Bryant and LeBron James.

All there is to it, really.

no, Jordan actually raised his level of play in the playoffs. Kobe and Lebron are some what consistent for both.

[dh144498]

Obviously. How can anybody surpass Jordan when we've apparently decided the criteria for GOAT is taylor made to be exactly what fits into whatever criteria decides Jordan is the GOAT?

aka a mix of everything involving basketball. He's near the top, if not at the top for everything involving basketball.

[SamuraiSWISH]

no, Jordan actually raised his level of play in the playoffs. Kobe and Lebron are some what consistent for both.
Thus, MJ = GOAT

Pressure busts pipes, or creates diamonds.

The true test of a player is in the playoffs, when everyone's play elevates, defense is better and everything is on the line. If I need to win a game, or series, and can only pick ONE player in history ... MJ is BY FAR the most trustworthy. No weakness as a player. He's got Kobe's skill, LeBron's natural talent / domination, superior mind for the game. He's just better than both of these kids.

MJ is going HAM when pressure is higher, and the lights brighter ... with more at stack.

MJ is the greatest money on the table player of all-time.

[jzek]

Jordan and Shaq get the most excuses from people on ISH. Like when the Bulls lost to the Magic in 95, some bullshit about Jordan being "rusty," like that's a valid excuse.

Jordan was out of the league for TWO YEARS (pause for a second and think about that) and then came back MIDWAY THROUGH THE SEASON WITHOUT PROPER TRAINING CAMP (again, pause for a minute or two and think about this too). Did you really expect him to be dominant? :biggums: Seriously? :facepalm

Let me repeat why Jordan was "rusty":

1) He was out of the league for two years.
2) He didn't have a proper training camp after being out for two eyars and came back midway through the season.

Guess what happened next season? That's right, 72-10 and swept every individual NBA award that year. Oh, and they also swept taht Magic team, too! What a difference a proper training camp and full season made!

[SamuraiSWISH]

Did you really expect him to be dominant?
He was though ... if Luc Longely didn't blow a WIDE open dunk / layup created for him at the end of game 5 by Jordan they could've beat the Magic.

Wasn't dominant? Here is his regular season numbers from 15 game sample size he played (barely a month and a half of games) and then see how quickly he elevated his game for the playoffs ...

1995 reg season
27 ppg on 41%

1995 playoffs
32 ppg on 48%

That's a 5 ppg increase on 7% better shooting percentage. That's absurd. All while still getting his bball legs, wind and body back.

32 years old, too. There was 2x games v.s. Orlando where he had 30 point halves, and just didn't have the basketball wind to keep his foot on the pedal for the Bulls.

[seanclayton]

Jordan played in weak era where all the 80s HOF declined to retirement. Yes, the same 80s players which Jordan can't beat. It's like sending Kobe back to the 60s and whooping asses.

[diamenz]

people can twist it anyway they want with stats, number of rings or whatever but anyone who watched both play just know that mj was just on another level.


Jordan played in weak era where all the 80s HOF declined to retirement. Yes, the same 80s players which Jordan can't beat. It's like sending Kobe back to the 60s and whooping asses.

it's weak now too. open lanes are everywhere these days and the rules are geared towards perimeter players. watch old school ball and notice how the lanes are filled and big men protect the rim. the late 90's were weak, but the early 90's still have competition and jordan wrecked it with insane stats.

[BlackVVaves]

He was though ... if Luc Longely didn't blow a WIDE open dunk / layup created for him at the end of game 5 by Jordan they could've beat the Magic.

Wasn't dominant? Here is his regular season numbers from 15 game sample size he played (barely a month and a half of games) and then see how quickly he elevated his game for the playoffs ...

1995 reg season
27 ppg on 41%

1995 playoffs
32 ppg on 48%

That's a 5 ppg increase on 7% better shooting percentage. That's absurd. All while still getting his bball legs, wind and body back.

32 years old, too. There was 2x games v.s. Orlando where he had 30 point halves, and just didn't have the basketball wind to keep his foot on the pedal for the Bulls.

Got to admit SpecialQue, this post makes a very good point. You can't fault a player for playing below his standards after being away for 2 years. If Kobe comes back next season, and underperforms for a couple of weeks while he re-assimilates to the game, I'm sure you'd feel like it would be unfair to overly critcize him given the circumstance of injury-recovery. And, that would only be a few months away from basketball...Jordan was gone for nearly 2 years.

However, I do agree with the premise of your post. I just think you used a bad example pertaining to Jordan. Using his career pre-90s would suit your argument much better.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Kobe could barely match LeBron's ROOKIE STATS in his THIRD SEASON!
:lol :lol :lol

[clutchinho]

Jordan never lost a playoff series in his prime, if you disregard his comeback season.

That alone separates him from everyone else.

Shaq/Kobe/Hakeem/Duncan/Lebron isn't even close. The thought of Jordan losing to the 2011 Mavs with a team that stacked is laughable, wouldnt have happened

[NumberSix]

Jordan never lost a playoff series in his prime, if you disregard his comeback season.

That alone separates him from everyone else.

Shaq/Kobe/Hakeem/Duncan/Lebron isn't even close. The thought of Jordan losing to the 2011 Mavs with a team that stacked is laughable, wouldnt have happened
And 1990.



And 1989.







And 1988







And 1987









Other than that, he never lost a playoff series.

[clutchinho]

And 1990.



And 1989.







And 1988







And 1987









Other than that, he never lost a playoff series.

With a scrub team.

losing to the 2011 mavs with Wade and Bosh on his team :lol :lol :lol Jordan would have ****ed those ****** up by himself

[NumberSix]

With a scrub team.

losing to the 2011 mavs with Wade and Bosh on his team :lol :lol :lol Jordan would have ****ed those ****** up by himself
89 and 90 were scrub teams huh?

[clutchinho]

89 and 90 were scrub teams huh?

Rookie and 2nd year Pip and Horace, you expect them to be a championship favorite based on that? When you got stacked 80s teams running around

[niko]

Jordan won six titles on two separate three-peats. Lebron (so far) has won ONE title. ONE. not two, not three, ONE.

If Lebron starts knocking off titles like nothing then we can talk but as of right now there is nothing to compare.

Jordan also did not have the Lebron moments where you sat there and wondered exactly why he stopped playing. Lebron needs to put those further in his rearview mirror too.