Kid tells teacher like it is

[enayes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj5z3dhTpVw


:cheers:

[ace23]

Saw this earlier since I'm cool and hip.

:applause:

[HardwoodLegend]

"So, don't try and take credibility for teaching me jack"

He tried to get too fancy with it at the end. The word he was looking for is "credit".

Nice vid tho. Square biz.

[miller-time]

I hate that the attitude of a lot of teachers or people going into teaching is that it is for the pay check - which he says she said outright. You should go into teaching because you want to be an educator, not a high paid babysitter.

[Styles p]

:applause:

[ace23]

I hate that the attitude of a lot of teachers or people going into teaching is that it is for the pay check - which he says she said outright. You should go into teaching because you want to be an educator, not a high paid babysitter.
Teachers are generally overpaid anyway. $40,000-$100,000 to work 8 hours/day, 180 days a year? :oldlol:

[DeuceWallaces]

Teachers are generally overpaid anyway. $40,000-$100,000 to work 8 hours/day, 180 days a year? :oldlol:

Jesus you're an idiot.

[CelticBaller]

Awesome :applause:

Never liked those asshole teachers who never tried to interact with the students. Back in HS I loved the charismatic teachers.

[Dolphin]

Teachers are generally overpaid anyway. $40,000-$100,000 to work 8 hours/day, 180 days a year? :oldlol:

Teachers should actually be paid more than they are now. They have a very important role in the future of every nation on earth....however, it is up to the gov't to put a system in place to allow teachers to earn that sort of pay...and it's up to the people to want it. I mean, the way things are now, many teachers should be earning jack squat, but in reality they hold so much power over future generations that if the gov't acknowledged this, they would be trained in a way that would in turn lead to them being paid a lot. First, way more money has to be put into the teachers' own educational system.

People seem to focus on how little the teachers should make because of poor outcomes from the students....when the focus should be on why teachers aren't being trained in a way that would lead to better teaching and thus make it obvious they deserve to earn more. The people have to really want it first, but I don't see the local, state and federal gov'ts really being pressured much on a grand scale.

Just food for thought.

[Patrick Chewing]

Teachers are generally overpaid anyway.


:facepalm :rolleyes:

[macmac]

Teachers are generally overpaid anyway. $40,000-$100,000 to work 8 hours/day, 180 days a year? :oldlol:

Whoever taught you anything was overpaid that's for sure. Because you're as dumb as a cinder block

[InspiredLebowski]

My mom only taught preschool and that shit was a solid 12 hour a day job, often more. Where exactly do you think lesson plans and tests and worksheets and exercises and all that comes from?

[Cangri]

My mom only taught preschool and that shit was a solid 12 hour a day job, often more. Where exactly do you think lesson plans and tests and worksheets and exercises and all that comes from?
Maybe the first year, but after that they just recycle the same sht and same tests over and over again.

[unbreakable]

teachers are definitely UNDERPAID.. i worked as a teachers aid at an elementary and MY GOODNESS these mother****ers work hard as hell... 12 hr days.. dealing with idiot kids, idiot parents, idiot principals.. etc...

teachers should make 60,000 easy

[ace23]

Whoever taught you anything was overpaid that's for sure. Because you're as dumb as a cinder block
:cheers:

[ace23]

Jesus you're an idiot.
Definitely.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/how-many-days-per-year-does-a-teacher-work/question-1552159/

[joe]

I feel bad for anyone who is currently enrolled in the shit storm we call public school. Terrible teachers, boring subjects, zero student choice, stupid rules. We had a rule that nobody could wear jacket in our school. So you've got little 100 pound girls in class, middle of winter, freezing cold not allowed to wear jackets. Damn. Retarded.

The reason for the rule was because someone could conceal a gun in a jacket, due to paranoia about the school shootings. Somehow the reason is even dumber than the rule itself. Thanks to 2-3 idiots in other states, we have to suffer? And how is banning jackets going to prevent a school shooting? If someone wanted to shoot up the school, they weren't going to be prevented by a no jacket rule.

Teachers > principles > their higher ups > their higher ups. The higher up the chain you go, the more retarded they get when it comes to public schools.

[ballup]

Teachers have pretty bad pay from what I hear. Also, they don't work only 180 days a year on average. They have to work maybe a week to a month before and after the school year. I have also heard that some teachers need to do extra work in the summer.

Anyways, back to the video. Any teacher would be pissed if they were told how to do their job. I won't judge the teacher because I have not experienced taht particular class and there is no context to that video. Don't get me wrong, only passing packets and not going over them is blatantly bad teaching. Teaching is largely communication and simplification of complex ideas.

[Just2McFly]

underpaid in terms of what? because they are job is important?

[L.Kizzle]

underpaid in terms of what? because they are job is important?
Damn, who was your teacher?

[Cali Syndicate]

I hate that the attitude of a lot of teachers or people going into teaching is that it is for the pay check - which he says she said outright. You should go into teaching because you want to be an educator, not a high paid babysitter.

But teachers don't make jack shit. For the most part, people know this but still get into education because they want to be a part of the system. Problem is the system is garbage.

[HardwoodLegend]

Damn, who was your teacher?

Mrs. iPhone Autocorrect.

[MAC system]

Most teachers are shitheads that go into it cause it's an easy paycheck if you do bare minimum work. My mom's a teacher, and she makes one 100k a year doing it. But she is a department chair, avid supervisor, senior class advisor, link crew coordinator teaches on her prep period and has a class after school. Not to mention all the games and extracurricular activities she is at. She used to leave our house at 6 am and not get home til 6 or 7. There are teachers that are dedicated like that, and America needs to find them by paying teachers more. Require masters to teach in a public school and weed out the idiots who want to just collect a paycheck. Make school days longer. Get rid of standardized testing, because that is a waste of time. Take money out of the middle east and welfare homes nd put it into our schools. That is the most important thing right now for our future So we don't have a generation of kkids trying to emulate lil wayne and shit.

[Kblaze8855]

My mother was and is a teacher...and my grandmother was a math and sunday school teacher for like 40 years.

But that doesnt mean they are underpaid.

Public schools are a joke these days, The extreme vast majority really is babysitting. I learned next to nothing after I left private school and schools have if anything gotten worse since my days.

More kids, more teaching to the test not for knowledge, and kids doing worse.

Being given a massive responsibility doesnt mean you are underpaid even if you arent good at it.

Even if teachers are good...most of the schools are so rigid they cant show it.

Pay a guy 200 thousand...if he has to teach from a text book, hand out work sheets, and teach to a statewide test for weeks at a time the kids still dont come out caring. Some say pay them more and more qualified people take the jobs...but run the numbers. Where is the money to come from? And its not like more education makes one better at teaching. The best teacher I ever had had passion...but he wasnt really that good at math...which he taught. Not like...brilliant. He taught from the book but he was just interesting...fun.


This isnt the 60s with black teachers smuggling books from white schools so little black kids could learn history.

I know teachers. Plural. My ex girlfriend is a second grade teacher. And as I said...my mom is one too.

But it isnt high on the underpaid list.

Ive worked retail. The money these people are used to generate is astounding and they get minimum wage.

I could go teach in high school...tomorrow. My defensive coordinator from football was my math teacher for 2 years. Handed out sheets, read from a book, and passed anyone useful to sports.

It isnt that hard to be an average teacher. Its hard to be a great one.

Most teachers arent doing anything to justify high pay. They possibly could...but not in the system America gives them.

[GatorKid117]

I'm a teacher over here in China.

I wish teachers would be as respected in America as they are here. Education is actually seen as a quality major unlike in America. Its nice to feel appreciated and respected.

And in turn, I've tried my best to make my lessons interesting. Students seem to like my classes and some of my students have really surprised me. I teach geography and history btw. And kindergarten.

Don't see myself teaching in America though. Don't want to get involved in that crap fest.

[ace23]

Couple clowns in here.

I specifically remember my HS psych teacher citing these reasons for becoming a teacher after getting his degree:

1. Summers off
2. 8-hour days

We did nothing in his class but watch movies and discuss current events. We all received 100s on our report cards after turning in the odd biweekly worksheet.

Dude made 80K+/year. It's a joke.

[Just2McFly]

Damn, who was your teacher?
K. anyways, ive stopped feeling for teachers a long time ago.

I agree with K Blaze

[shlver]

underpaid in terms of what? because they are job is important?
I think this is a good question to ask.
Are teachers underpaid? Yes, the skillset of a good teacher generally means he or she will get paid better elsewhere, most markedly in science. Last time we had this discussion, I think I posted a link where there was a severe shortage of qualified educators in the stem fields. I think the necessary qualification to be considered "qualified" was a subject specific major or higher education.

Are good teachers underpaid? Sure, but good teachers need to be qualified to teach their subject. How will you challenge bright students if you are not learned in your subject? Currently, in a significant portion of our classrooms, we have education majors without a science minor teaching high school science classes. This is unacceptable.

Meritocracy and giving financial incentive to subject specific majors or phd's to teach in high schools is necessary. Good, qualified teachers are an invaluable investment and there needs to be a major perceptual change in what it means and what is expected of an educator.

[NotYetGreat]

Maybe the first year, but after that they just recycle the same sht and same tests over and over again.

Teachers are often rotated around the grde levels and what works for one level may not necessarily work for another. I's much harder than you think, especially for the elementary levels. Te kind of peparation that goes into each class is astonishing.

Being a future educator, I can't help but feel rage towards that "teacher," if she can even call herself that. Such audacity. If she was looking for a paycheck, she should be looking elsewhere coz that's not what this profession will get you. I've come to terms with that fact, knowing even that I'll probably live a much simpler life materially than I am now. However, when I think about all those kids Imma be helping in the future, I simply don't care about it anymore. This kid is right on the money. I really hope this video goes viral.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Teachers should actually be paid more than they are now. They have a very important role in the future of every nation on earth....however, it is up to the gov't to put a system in place to allow teachers to earn that sort of pay...and it's up to the people to want it. I mean, the way things are now, many teachers should be earning jack squat, but in reality they hold so much power over future generations that if the gov't acknowledged this, they would be trained in a way that would in turn lead to them being paid a lot. First, way more money has to be put into the teachers' own educational system.

People seem to focus on how little the teachers should make because of poor outcomes from the students....when the focus should be on why teachers aren't being trained in a way that would lead to better teaching and thus make it obvious they deserve to earn more. The people have to really want it first, but I don't see the local, state and federal gov'ts really being pressured much on a grand scale.

Just food for thought.All of this. Going into teaching seems to be a second option now for a lot of people. If they fail at what they want to do, they do teaching instead, it's not given the importance it needs to be given. Teachers need to be trained as thoroughly as doctors or engineers, they are that important. They shape the youth of the world at times and in matters that are very important, it should not be taken lightly. The school system needs some major changes.

[Cali Syndicate]

Couple clowns in here.

I specifically remember my HS psych teacher citing these reasons for becoming a teacher after getting his degree:

1. Summers off
2. 8-hour days

We did nothing in his class but watch movies and discuss current events. We all received 100s on our report cards after turning in the odd biweekly worksheet.

Dude made 80K+/year. It's a joke.

Did you go to some private or charter school?

Not sure how it is in Texas but i know for a fact no k-12 teacher in California makes anywhere near $80k. Average is like $40k - $50k

[Rubio2Gasol]

When I worked in various Latin American schools for a year as a teacher - you could teach in a school - then go teach an informal outside school class as well. That was the biggest motivator for me because to get people to pay you directly for classes - you need to actually have a good reputation.

That's probably illegal in the states.

You go to work...get paid - teach...don't teach noone cares. Extra effort doesn't really help your bottom line. I think school on the whole is just going to take a big hit - people are not going to be going to school to learn- you can do that on youtube - they're just going to school to socialize.

[d.bball.guy]

:applause:

I'm pretty happy I have never had a teacher that only cares about their pay check and not the students' future.

[ace23]

Did you go to some private or charter school?

Not sure how it is in Texas but i know for a fact no k-12 teacher in California makes anywhere near $80k. Average is like $40k - $50k
Public. He had at least 20 years of exp. fwiw.

[Rasheed1]

teachers have it pretty tough... they get stuck with alot of bs and they its a trap because they are expected to do alot of things without many resources or help from the faculty..

that said.. I agree with the kid. You do have teachers who take that dismissive attitude like the teacher in the video seems to have... those teachers need to be rooted out and let go...

if you dont care? get another job and stop wasting kid's time. There are kids in every class who actually want to learn and teacher cant lose sight of that.

I bet that teacher was embarrassed when she thinks back on what happened

[Myth]

"So, don't try and take credibility for teaching me jack"

He tried to get too fancy with it at the end. The word he was looking for is "credit".

Nice vid tho. Square biz.

Poor kid would know the difference if she taught him.

[Myth]

Couple clowns in here.

I specifically remember my HS psych teacher citing these reasons for becoming a teacher after getting his degree:

1. Summers off
2. 8-hour days

We did nothing in his class but watch movies and discuss current events. We all received 100s on our report cards after turning in the odd biweekly worksheet.

Dude made 80K+/year. It's a joke.

That is a crazy high income. I know many teachers personally and none of them make even close to that much money. How did you know his income? Did the teacher brag about it in class, or are you pulling that number out of your butt?

[IamRAMBO24]

If this kid is truly as smart as he claims to be, he would attack the curriculum and not the teacher; teachers are only following a bullsh*t curriculum based on killing off creativity, using the lowest level kind of thinking (memorization and repitition), and training the mind to view the world through an erroneous perspective (materialism, facts, objectivity).

Classes are structured to be boring, textbooks are written like instructional guides on purpose to block conceptual thinking, and teachers are told to follow the procedure or they will be fired.

What the f*ck else are they supposed to do?

Blame the curriculum; no matter how much money you throw at the system or how many great teachers you have, if it is sh*t, you can't turn that sh*t into anything other than sh*t.

Kids an idiot. F*ck him.

[RedBlackAttack]

That is a crazy high income. I know many teachers personally and none of them make even close to that much money. How did you know his income? Did the teacher brag about it in class, or are you pulling that number out of your butt?
My brother is an administrator and he doesn't make that kind of money. Ace is making some pretty general assumptions in this thread, overall.

I know a lot of good teachers who genuinely care about the kids and have devoted their lives to what they do. As with any career, there is a range of employees with different levels of interest/involvement.

As for rate of pay for teachers, it fluctuates based on cost of living in the area, but I don't know a single teacher/coach who makes anything close to $80,000 a year.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I work as a Classified staff member (after school program) and I am going to be a history teacher at the secondary level.

In response to the video: I agree that as a student it can be very very frustrating when no one around you takes as big an interest in your education as you do. Even if you don't care, it is the educators job to make you care. I would have been hesitant to applaud the kid since it's a short video and you have no idea if he was being an idiot beforehand, but her response to him made me believe that all of his points were valid. That kind of teaching gives educators a bad name, it makes the students check out, AND they don't learn shit. Even as just a ASP leader I have a personal, vested interest in the education of my students.

History in particular frustrated me because it's often the laziest form of teaching. But if I get on that track you won't get me off so...

As for the pay of teachers: teachers, or I should say, good-great teachers, at every level are underpaid. These are the ones who not only pour everything they have into their actual contracted hours, but also spend countless hours of their own personal time, and also their own money to further enhance their abilities as a teacher. It takes serious dedication, and patience. I love the field of education, I love my students, and I really want to teach history, but even I have considered very strongly doing something else because of the money. That shouldn't be the case.

There needs to be a greater emphasis put on education in our society. And there needs to be more incentive for the right kind of people to go into teaching. It really is a thankless job. I would love to higher salaries, and merit based evaluation (opposed to seniority). The only problem is what is the metric for a good teacher? It's not always concrete. The standardized testing is, imo, straight bullshit, and creates a culture that discourages real good education.

Finally, we cannot have misplaced teachers. I want to teach history because I love the shit out of history. It fascinates me, I drive those around me crazy talking about something I've read or my ideas on a current event, etc. I have a serious passion for the field, and I hope that as an educator my students will be able to notice that, and in turn I will be able to inspire a passion in them. If I go somewhere and they're like: "Oh we need you to teach theater." that won't work. I'll be competent, I'm a smart guy, I can figure it out, but without that passion for it I will not be nearly as effective as I should be.

I have written such a long post because the topic of education is one I care very much about. I feel all over the place when I write about it on ISH because I have so much I want to say, and so many ideas I have a hard time cutting it down. But this student is right, even if they all show up. Even if they are the smartest kids in school. Even if they do all of their work diligently, without the teacher giving their all it's a moot point. I have rough days at work with my kids, it happens, but if it becomes a consistent problem you have to take a step back and reevaluate it all.

[ace23]

That is a crazy high income. I know many teachers personally and none of them make even close to that much money. How did you know his income? Did the teacher brag about it in class, or are you pulling that number out of your butt?
I looked it up on some website that had all the salaries of every teacher and administrator in the school. I can't find it right now.

[Rake2204]

My brother is an administrator and he doesn't make that kind of money. Ace is making some pretty general assumptions in this thread, overall.

I know a lot of good teachers who genuinely care about the kids and have devoted their lives to what they do. As with any career, there is a range of employees with different levels of interest/involvement.

As for rate of pay for teachers, it fluctuates based on cost of living in the area, but I don't know a single teacher/coach who makes anything close to $80,000 a year.Yeah, I do not think $80,000 is that common for a teacher. But like you said, it kind of depends upon location and district.

In our district, pay begins at $34,000 and if someone is employed at that district for 25 years (and did not achieve a Masters) the highest they'll be paid is around $63,000 per year. With a Masters, 30 more credits on top and over 25 years of service, that number can reach $70,000. So $80,000 is not far-fetched, but it'd take a lot of experience and going above and beyond a Masters to make it happen.

In regards to teaching itself, I think the truth about the time, the effort, and the pay (or lack thereof), lies somewhere in the middle of what everyone's saying here. It's certainly not a 180 day/8 hour job. But I also don't think teachers are totally in the poor house. As other folks said, at least a teacher's wage is, for the most part, livable, where there's many other occupations that require more work and pay less. I suppose it's all relative though.

If you guys want more information on teacher pay, most school websites have a "Transparency" icon on their homepage where they're obligated to showcase contract information to the public.


If this kid is truly as smart as he claims to be, he would attack the curriculum and not the teacher; teachers are only following a bullsh*t curriculum based on killing off creativity, using the lowest level kind of thinking (memorization and repitition), and training the mind to view the world through an erroneous perspective (materialism, facts, objectivity).

Classes are structured to be boring, textbooks are written like instructional guides on purpose to block conceptual thinking, and teachers are told to follow the procedure or they will be fired.Well, I feel teachers can be terrible regardless of curriculum but you raise a very solid point anyway. A lot of teachers are handcuffed. The freedom we as students so desire is not always as possible as we wish it to be. Each administration and every state values percentages and numbers, not whether our students are actually learning. I mean, I think they wish and hope that high percentages and numbers mean kids are learning, but I think we all know they don't always go hand in hand.

As such, with higher standardized test scores and established benchmarks being a school's primary set of goals, there's often a very specific manner with which every topic and subject must be taught. Within my district, all teachers teaching the same subject level must be at the same exact spot in their progress on a day to day basis. That means if one teacher is at the point where they must make their students read The Great Gatsby and they're on page 45, any other teacher teaching their own English 2 class must also be at that point on the same day.

Schools, states, and districts want uniformity. There are very specific benchmarks to be met and oftentimes, that means a teacher is not able to go down the roads they wish to go, or spend the amount of time they wish to spend. The great ones can find a way, but at this point they're still never free to unleash what they're capable of. The words of wisdom given by most older teachers in our district these days is, "Whew, I feel bad for you new teachers. It's crazy what you guys have to go through now." So that's always comforting.

If you understandably skipped all the long text above, here's the essence of what the modern day public school system has developed into:

"What was educationally significant and hard to measure has been replaced by what is educationally insignificant and easy to measure. So now we measure how well we taught what isn't worth learning." - Arthur Costa

[boozehound]

several things. That teacher and her terrible attitude piss me off. Duncanville is a fairly crappy suburb of dallas that needs all the help it can get, not dumb and lazy bitches like her.

Teachers arent paid enough. The work load extends well past the classroom into your evenings and weekends. Most school districts have expectations that you use your own salary to outfit the classroom (I know a first grade teacher that was told she needed to provide a class library for her students and was then told that the ~100 books she had bought with her own money were not enough. She was also expected to buy the large rug for the room and many of the basic supplies). Ridiculous

Because teachers arent paid enough (or really considered an important job), many of the best potential teachers do not go into the field. Just looking at my HS class through facebook, all of the people who are now teachers were the middling and average kids in the school. None of them expressed a great aptitude or passion for the subject they now teach. Essentially, they went into education because there are jobs in the field. All of the top students from my class and the ones with a passion for a certain subject do something else now (professor, lawyers, doctors, architects, business). So, what do we expect when very few of our best and brightest go on to engage our youth in education.

[Just2McFly]

I would say teaching the future of the the country you live in is a darn important job.
Redundant joke is redundant.

[ItsMillerTime]

Couple clowns in here.

I specifically remember my HS psych teacher citing these reasons for becoming a teacher after getting his degree:

1. Summers off
2. 8-hour days

We did nothing in his class but watch movies and discuss current events. We all received 100s on our report cards after turning in the odd biweekly worksheet.

Dude made 80K+/year. It's a joke.

No public high school teacher makes $80K a year. You're flat out lying.

And to base your opinions of teachers on 1 slacker that didn't care about his job is simply asinine.

[Rasheed1]

For certain teachers with tenure it can get up to $80,000..but no public school teacher makes that much.. Administrators? they might get that much... maybe a superintendent of a large district will get that... but teachers dont really get that much in salary.. definitely not public school

Vast majority of teachers are making in the range of 30 to 50 thousand a year. 80 thou is pretty rare... but I see it often quoted by people who want to undermine and misrepresent teachers. like anti blue collar types who scream "union thugs" at anyone who takes about collective bargaining.

its basically a misrepresentation of what teachers make...

[UConnCeltics]

80k for a superintendent? My town has 4 schools and the guy was pulling in 120k, he just retired.

[Rasheed1]

80k for a superintendent? My town has 4 schools and the guy was pulling in 120k, he just retired.


I meant simply administration.. my bad for the confusion.. supes make over 100, and admin in big districts will see 80 thousand.

like I said there are some teachers who will see 80 thousand, but that is the vast minority of teachers..

I looked it up and there are 6 in the philadelphia school district (which surprises me)

6 Top-Earning Teachers
1. Amish Shah, $145,733.55
2. Barbara Jo Bess Pashak, $132,685.75
3. Michael Hawkins, $130,821.40
4. Patricia Harrell, $121,684.91
5. Carol E. Walton, $121,133.85
6. Karen Kelly Nickens, $119,394.41

but generally you wont see those numbers in a school district unless you are in administration..

[enayes]

My mother is a 2nd grade public school teacher teacher in Port Jervis, NY and her salary is currently at $81,000, and it will max out at $90,000. She is 48 years old, has a master's and has been teaching for 18 years.

Where are you guys getting your numbers? :lol

A friend of mine who graduated in 2009 landed a high school earth science teaching job in Westchester, NY with a starting pay of $51,000. Granted this is a very wealthy area.

Most schools will start you off at $30-$40,000, but you get a raise every year or couple of years. It doesn't take long to get in the $50,000+ range.

[Rasheed1]

My mother is a 2nd grade public school teacher teacher in Port Jervis, NY and her salary is currently at $81,000, and it will max out at $90,000. She is 48 years old, has a master's and has been teaching for 18 years.

Where are you guys getting your numbers? :lol

A friend of mine who graduated in 2009 landed a high school earth science teaching job in Westchester, NY with a starting pay of $51,000. Granted this is a very wealthy area.

Most schools will start you off at $30-$40,000, but you get a raise every year or couple of years. It doesn't take long to get in the $50,000+ range.


48 years old with a masters and teaching for 18 years in NY probably is why she is pulling 81 g's

you are right about the starting salary being in the 30 to 40 range... But I know in this state we have a republican governor who is cutting education every chance he gets in order to give tax breaks to his fracking friends, so there isnt going to be many raises in the near future for teachers. In fact, alot of positions are being cut. Not many teachers will last long enough to have enough tenure to make that kind of money

[Rake2204]

My mother is a 2nd grade public school teacher teacher in Port Jervis, NY and her salary is currently at $81,000, and it will max out at $90,000. She is 48 years old, has a master's and has been teaching for 18 years.

Where are you guys getting your numbers? :lol

A friend of mine who graduated in 2009 landed a high school earth science teaching job in Westchester, NY with a starting pay of $51,000. Granted this is a very wealthy area.

Most schools will start you off at $30-$40,000, but you get a raise every year or couple of years. It doesn't take long to get in the $50,000+ range.Whew, starting at $51,000 is pretty impressive. I never see that. In Michigan and its surrounding states it seems pretty much standard that a starting teacher's salary will be between $29,000 and $34,000.

And your mom's salary is more than believable, particularly if she's put in almost 20 years and has a Masters.

The real crazy salaries to me belong to superintendents. Ann Arbor's super is currently making $245,000 per year (http://www.annarbor.com/news/education/database-ann-arbor-public-schools-patricia-green-is-no-1-highest-paid-superintendent-in-michigan/). The district reasoned they had to find a way to draw a good super to the city. Significant outcry seemed to lead to A2's decision to cap the next super salary at $220,000. It seemed folks weren't pumped about schools taking cuts at every turn while boosting the superintendent's salary along the way.

[longhornfan1234]

Liberal teachers are destroying the youth.

[stax]

Metal as f***

[ace23]

No public high school teacher makes $80K a year. You're flat out lying.
Shut up, kid.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/fashion/01generationb.html?_r=0

[boozehound]

She started teaching in 1978 for $11,250 a year

So, you took a 35 year tenured teacher in the area with the highest cost of living in the country as your representative example. Really?

http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state/

You will notice there are only about 5 states where the average teacher salary (including ladies like the one in your article) makes over 60k. Your POV is way out of line with reality.

[The_Yearning]

That kid is embarrassing.

[STATUTORY]

My mom worked at a saudi private school in one of the richest counties in America and only made 60k a year.

I'm also friends with a teacher and if she's gonna be making 100k a year soon I need to marry her asap.

even private school teachers in US make less than their public school counterparts after controlling for neighborhoods.

Public school teachers at some wealthy counties pull in 100k+ plus easy.

[Dbrog]

Shut up, kid.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/fashion/01generationb.html?_r=0

As someone else said...this is not a representative sample. For instance, my mother who retired in her 30th year of teaching, was pulling just over 60k...and that was with a Master's. This is going to be a much more accurate number for most of the nation.

[ace23]

I'm not trying to get some representative sample. Read what this fool wrote:


No public high school teacher makes $80K a year. You're flat out lying.

Yes, I'm the one lying. :oldlol:

[knickballer]

LOL, some of my HS gym teachers were getting paid over 100k. Talk about a waste of tax payer money...

[Balla_Status]

I blame feminism. Teaching used to be the lone female profession outside of a housewife so all the best females were teachers.

And shit teachers like this is why I took AP US History my junior year. That was an awesome class and was well behind the other students in terms of writing but I got better because of it. History/Geography classes were a joke. Freshman year the teacher actually cared but the kids in the class were dumb as hell. Getting 30s and 40s on tests over finding cities and states in Europe. Basic shit. I got a 96 and everyone is like, "omg nerd all you do is study." Takes an hour to memorize that garbage.

My soccer coach was also a world history teacher and he was terrible. All he would do is sit at his computer and once a week go up to the chalkboard and write shit up there and then you'd just copy it. That was it. There was no teaching involved whatsoever. We would sit in his classroom the majority of the time and play cards and make bets and shit.

Some students absolutely DGAF either so it doesn't really matter what the teacher does. I won't say that they're under or overpaid because they get summers off.

[Positive]

I'm not trying to get some representative sample. Read what this fool wrote:



Yes, I'm the one lying. :oldlol:

:biggums:

that's the correct use... :facepalm

You're or you are flat out lying.

[ace23]

:biggums:

that's the correct use... :facepalm

You're or you are flat out lying.
I know it's the correct usage. Catch up, son.

EDIT: Let me fix my post to emphasize my point.

[chips93]

american schools sound ****ed up

[knickballer]

I blame feminism. Teaching used to be the lone female profession outside of a housewife so all the best females were teachers.

And shit teachers like this is why I took AP US History my junior year. That was an awesome class and was well behind the other students in terms of writing but I got better because of it. History/Geography classes were a joke. Freshman year the teacher actually cared but the kids in the class were dumb as hell. Getting 30s and 40s on tests over finding cities and states in Europe. Basic shit. I got a 96 and everyone is like, "omg nerd all you do is study." Takes an hour to memorize that garbage.

My soccer coach was also a world history teacher and he was terrible. All he would do is sit at his computer and once a week go up to the chalkboard and write shit up there and then you'd just copy it. That was it. There was no teaching involved whatsoever. We would sit in his classroom the majority of the time and play cards and make bets and shit.

Some students absolutely DGAF either so it doesn't really matter what the teacher does. I won't say that they're under or overpaid because they get summers off.

Pretty much this lol. It's pretty much a joke. However, the only classes where I actually learned was in science classes everything else was pathetic.

Part of the problem is that once teachers get tenure they stop giving a **** and get all lazy. Why teach anything once your job is safe? I literally had teachers who didn't teach shit and the day before the test he'd give us the questions that'd be on the test.

In english classes most of the time we'd read a chapter and answer the questions on it. How does that relate to learning anything about the subject?

In Math we'd basically learn how to use a calculator.

[enayes]

She started teaching in 1978 for $11,250 a year

So, you took a 35 year tenured teacher in the area with the highest cost of living in the country as your representative example. Really?

http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state/

You will notice there are only about 5 states where the average teacher salary (including ladies like the one in your article) makes over 60k. Your POV is way out of line with reality.

Your article only looks at salaries after 10 years of teaching, so 50-60K makes sense. When you get close to/beyond 20 years you should be in the 80-100K range, just like the woman from the article. :confusedshrug:

[Balla_Status]

Pretty much this lol. It's pretty much a joke. However, the only classes where I actually learned was in science classes everything else was pathetic.

Part of the problem is that once teachers get tenure they stop giving a **** and get all lazy. Why teach anything once your job is safe? I literally had teachers who didn't teach shit and the day before the test he'd give us the questions that'd be on the test.

In english classes most of the time we'd read a chapter and answer the questions on it. How does that relate to learning anything about the subject?

In Math we'd basically learn how to use a calculator.

Not to mention a lot of the books you do read are very boring and uninteresting. I'd like to read what I want to read please.

[Jackass18]

I would love to higher salaries, and merit based evaluation (opposed to seniority)

How would you go about that, though? Have an observer sit in every class? They need to overhaul the system, but I don't have the answers.

Some of the classes were just sad. I remember taking Spanish I my senior year and I felt like I was in a 1st grade level class.

[InspiredLebowski]

Because teachers arent paid enough (or really considered an important job), many of the best potential teachers do not go into the field. Just looking at my HS class through facebook, all of the people who are now teachers were the middling and average kids in the school. None of them expressed a great aptitude or passion for the subject they now teach. Essentially, they went into education because there are jobs in the field. All of the top students from my class and the ones with a passion for a certain subject do something else now (professor, lawyers, doctors, architects, business). So, what do we expect when very few of our best and brightest go on to engage our youth in education.I understand the position, but I honestly don't see this as a problem. I don't want our best and brightest chemists teaching high school kids, I want them doing actual chemistry...stuff, for example. Public school teachers aren't exactly teaching even 300 level courses or anything, they don't need to be masters of a field. Would it help? Clearly, but it's not anywhere near necessary or feasible really.

I think it's a helluva lot more important to have an actual interest in educating the unknowing on a general subject than it is to have mastered the subject in regards to k-12 education. I'm sure we all had profs that were insanely learned in a field, published multiple times, well respected, all that jazz, and couldn't teach for shit. It's like the young DeuceWallaces in the video was saying, it's about engaging kids and making them want to learn, that's the hard part, not some basic understanding of covalent bonds or whatever. You coulda been as average a HS student as you want, your education didn't end after 12th grade, but if you do that I'll be happy to send my nonexistent kids to your classroom.

Just the general structure of American education is a major problem as well, but that's a whole other thread and doesn't even have an actual answer since it's pretty community specific.

[lilojmayo]

wow he really articulated himself well. a future politician?

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

I blame feminism. Teaching used to be the lone female profession outside of a housewife so all the best females were teachers.

And shit teachers like this is why I took AP US History my junior year. That was an awesome class and was well behind the other students in terms of writing but I got better because of it. History/Geography classes were a joke. Freshman year the teacher actually cared but the kids in the class were dumb as hell. Getting 30s and 40s on tests over finding cities and states in Europe. Basic shit. I got a 96 and everyone is like, "omg nerd all you do is study." Takes an hour to memorize that garbage.

My soccer coach was also a world history teacher and he was terrible. All he would do is sit at his computer and once a week go up to the chalkboard and write shit up there and then you'd just copy it. That was it. There was no teaching involved whatsoever. We would sit in his classroom the majority of the time and play cards and make bets and shit.

Some students absolutely DGAF either so it doesn't really matter what the teacher does. I won't say that they're under or overpaid because they get summers off.


AP US History was indeed awesome. Probably my fondest memory of a high school class.

The workload was insane. Study guides, outlines,, consistent quizzes, exams, but my God did we learn a sh!t load.

Dude challenged every belief in the book and had us do these little trials.

Debating FDR's Antics as unconstitutional or not
Debating how much of a nuisance we were to the Redcoats as opposed to a heroic feasible thread
Symbolism with

Whole lotta critical thinking, whole lotta detailed analysis, whole lot of cool stuff.

Thanks for bringing back the memoirs, Hawkster.

[MavsSuperFan]

The real problem in America and the reason we are turning into a 3rd world nation and will soon be surpassed by China is our culture.

I am not sure when it happened, but at some point we turned into a culture that looks down upon educated people. Hollywood has a huge effect on culture and helped propagate the stereotype of the nerd, especially in the 80s.

Kids put effort into getting good at what gives them gratification. The gratification of education does not occur immediately and combined with the negatives associated with being a "nerd" a lot of American children don't invest the effort and time needed to master harder subjects (STEM subjects).

In other cultures getting high test marks actually increases your popularity and peer acceptance. This is a huge factor in why they will in 20-30 years surpass us.

[MavsSuperFan]

Did you go to some private or charter school?

Not sure how it is in Texas but i know for a fact no k-12 teacher in California makes anywhere near $80k. Average is like $40k - $50k

I think he went to school in Texas, just like me. Unless he went to a real fancy private school there is no way his teachers made 80k a year.

[KG215]

My mother was and is a teacher...and my grandmother was a math and sunday school teacher for like 40 years.

But that doesnt mean they are underpaid.

Public schools are a joke these days, The extreme vast majority really is babysitting. I learned next to nothing after I left private school and schools have if anything gotten worse since my days.

More kids, more teaching to the test not for knowledge, and kids doing worse.

Being given a massive responsibility doesnt mean you are underpaid even if you arent good at it.

Even if teachers are good...most of the schools are so rigid they cant show it.

Pay a guy 200 thousand...if he has to teach from a text book, hand out work sheets, and teach to a statewide test for weeks at a time the kids still dont come out caring. Some say pay them more and more qualified people take the jobs...but run the numbers. Where is the money to come from? And its not like more education makes one better at teaching. The best teacher I ever had had passion...but he wasnt really that good at math...which he taught. Not like...brilliant. He taught from the book but he was just interesting...fun.


This isnt the 60s with black teachers smuggling books from white schools so little black kids could learn history.

I know teachers. Plural. My ex girlfriend is a second grade teacher. And as I said...my mom is one too.

But it isnt high on the underpaid list.

Ive worked retail. The money these people are used to generate is astounding and they get minimum wage.

I could go teach in high school...tomorrow. My defensive coordinator from football was my math teacher for 2 years. Handed out sheets, read from a book, and passed anyone useful to sports.

It isnt that hard to be an average teacher. Its hard to be a great one.

Most teachers arent doing anything to justify high pay. They possibly could...but not in the system America gives them.
I agree with pretty much all of this. Both of my parents have been teachers for about 30 years. I'm actually about to finish up my education degree and plan on teach, although that's partially because I want to coach. But even if I didn't want to coach, I still would've majored in education.

And you touched on this, but the system and school curriculum's do limit what teachers can do, and what levels they can reach as educators. I had great teachers in high school and lazy teachers who gave you a worksheet or packet of worksheets, where all you had to do was follow along in the chapter and the answers were there word-for-word, in order. I got the same grades and probably learned about the same amount in both types of classes. However, that's not to say teachers can't expand on the curriculum and actually make students do some critical thinking work/exercises. Most teachers can almost always make more of an effort. At the very least, make them more excited about your class than their other classes. It may be a more challenging class but can be one you make more interesting/fun than the normal worksheets/packet, read the chapter, take a test class.

As for teachers being underpaid...I never really grew up thinking that. My parents never talked about how much they made. They never complained about their pay. I think between both of them, they make around $100,000 per year, so about $50,000/year each. That's after 30 years and past the point of where they can retire. Of course we're from Arkansas where cost of living is very cheap compared to most other states.

I don't know of any teachers (that just teach) that are making anywhere close to $100K/year in Arkansas. I do know that there are plenty of coaches, though, that make in the $100K neighborhood. Football is a big deal in Northwest Arkansas, and the head coaches at the biggest schoosl (7A) are pulling in 6-figures. We just hired a football coach at my old high school (5A school in the River Valley) and he's making something like $95K/year. Thing is, those people don't even really teach. I know at my school the head football and head basketball coaches had a few P.E. classes, along with their athletic period which was the last period of the day. So, until last period when it was time for practice, they usually just rolled some balls out into the gym and let the kids play dodgeball, basketball, or dick around. Getting paid 6-figures to do jack shit until 2:00, coach for 2-3 hours, and go home. Granted, during the season coaching is a full-time job since you're going to games 2-3 nights a week, and don't get home until 10:00 or later. And I know at smaller schools here it's a lot worse. My dad was a head basketball coach for about 20 years at a 2A school. He also had to coach (assistant) football. My uncle has been the head football coach for nearly 30 years at the same school, and he also has to coach baseball. Which means they basically spend from August to May or October to May staying after school 2-3 hours for practices, and travelling and getting home late 2-3 times a week during the season, and only getting a month or two off in the summer.

[mlh1981]

I teach PE for Pinellas County Schools in St. Petersburg, FL. Here, the teacher salary tops out at about $63,000.

Currently, the school I'm at is classified as "fundamental," meaning that a certain level of parental involvement is required, and excess infractions by the students can result in their dismissal. It's not a private school, but there is a waiting list to get in, and we typically deal with less behavior problems/parent neglect, than other places.

With that said, I recently found out I'm losing my position due to "redistribution of funds." Basically, there will be fewer PE staff to watch the same number of students, who are all at risk of losing their daily PE. It's terrible.

I am super passionate about what I do, and the money sucks, but the kids are great, I know what I'm doing, and I do my best to teach them new skills. I really hope I find a similar position. It's all really upsetting right now.

[D-Rose]

I really don't get some of the hate this kid is receiving. Especially when I see people bashing the way he looks or talks...seriously? The most important thing is that this guy wants to learn, how many students in regulars classes with BS teachers really show this kind of passion? I hope this video was seen by as many administrators and principals around the country...who knows maybe it turned some important heads.

[Chrono90]

Does anyone here agree with me that the kid went over the line and he should be disciplined?

[Chrono90]

I really don't get some of the hate this kid is receiving. Especially when I see people bashing the way he looks or talks...seriously? The most important thing is that this guy wants to learn, how many students in regulars classes with BS teachers really show this kind of passion? I hope this video was seen by as many administrators and principals around the country...who knows maybe it turned some important heads.

We don't know that. He was expelled before and came back. No way we can make any concrete judgement from just a segment of what happened.

[D-Rose]

We don't know that. He was expelled before and came back. No way we can make any concrete judgement from just a segment of what happened.
I'm sure there is more context to it. But from watching the video, the kid expresses discontent at learning from packets and from his teacher not getting up and teaching the class. I like that. Although, I agree that perhaps his manner of solving this wasn't the best but he's pretty young so not surprising.

[enayes]

I think he went to school in Texas, just like me. Unless he went to a real fancy private school there is no way his teachers made 80k a year.

We have already established that PUBLIC SCHOOl teachers from all over the country can make over 80K a year. My mom is one of them, teaching 2nd grade in Port Jervis, NY (a pretty poor area) and making 81K this year.

[Bucket_Nakedz]

high school teachers can be so awful. i love the fact that when i started college, my instructors were like, everything u learned in high school and below is wrong.

[D-Rose]

My history professor in college was hilarious. Took as many shots as he could at high school curricula. He had this running gag where he referred to everyone's high school history teacher as "Coach Johnson" :roll:

[Chrono90]

I'm sure there is more context to it. But from watching the video, the kid expresses discontent at learning from packets and from his teacher not getting up and teaching the class. I like that. Although, I agree that perhaps his manner of solving this wasn't the best but he's pretty young so not surprising.

The problem is we hear the kid vent but the teacher never got a chance to explain her side of her story. It's as if we saw a video of a teacher lecturing a kid with lots of passion, we would say she's a good teacher and kids are not into education these days.

Not saying you're wrong. But just saying there's lot more to the whole story and it's unfair to say the teacher is not enthusiastic about teaching without hearing her side of the story.

[ElPigto]

I completely feel where this kid is coming from. When I graduated back in 2010, while looking for a job in my field (engineering), I was able to network with a principal at a school who gave me a job as a tutor. He started me off at $21/hr and I worked 8 hours/day. I was helping out the math department and it really sucked.

One thing I can say, I hate standardized testing. I suppose it serves it purpose for kids that learn just to get by, but for those students that want to be challenged, it is really tough to get them engaged. I few of the students I tutored weren't idiots, math was just challenging to them, however, I made every effort to teach them things the correct way. Unfortunately in this school, they had this TI-89's that did the work for them, so most students would get their answers this way, but had no idea how the calculator arrived at this conclusion. I brought this up to the math department chair, telling her how stupid it was to teach kids to only use a calculator to get to the answer, but she got after me for trying to teach kids how to actually arrive at an answer without the calculator.

Obviously, these super high tech calculator have a good purpose and I definitely could have used one in college, rather than doing things by hand that I already knew how to do. However, in this school they were driven by standardized scores (like I am sure most schools are) and they just tried to teach these kids the simplest way to get an answer.

Quite frankly, after that experience, I could never be a teacher. I tried my best to be creative with these kids and I made an effort to teach them without using a calculator. Unfortunately, many of them were used to the ****ing calculator that they couldn't even do simple division at times! I always engaged my groups. I can't imagine having to do teaching full time. Dealing with the administration that doesn't always support you is also bullshit. Unfortunately, at the end, it's all about those numbers, which is why I think many teachers lose their passion.

There will always be teachers that are bad apples, but many of my friends that went into the education field, actually really care about their kids. I am sure at some point, most of them will be worn down by the restrictions administration imposes and most will lose their passion for teaching.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Does anyone here agree with me that the kid went over the line and he should be disciplined?

Oh absolutely. But his points remain valid.

[tpols]

Oh absolutely. But his points remain valid.
Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.

[Bandito]

Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.
He coyodve had a debate with the teacher about it, not storm off the classroom.

[ace23]

He coyodve had a debate with the teacher about it, not storm off the classroom.
She told him to leave...

[IamRAMBO24]

Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.

It's not the teacher's fault and it's not the fault of the kid either. The problem lies in the curriculum: teachers are supposed to follow it to the tee, which means they can't teach creatively or they will get fired, and since they can't teach it creatively, the kids can't engage it creatively, hence why they get bored.

The main job of the teacher is to teach the curriculum and keep the students in line with it through discipline.

The true purpose of the curriculum is not to teach, but to control the behaviors of the student.

[tpols]

It's not the teacher's fault and it's not the fault of the kid either. The problem lies in the curriculum: teachers are supposed to follow it to the tee, which means they can't teach creatively or they will get fired, and since they can't teach it creatively, the kids can't engage it creatively, hence why they get bored.

The main job of the teacher is to teach the curriculum and keep the students in line with it through discipline.

The true purpose of the curriculum is not to teach, but to control the behaviors of the student.
Thats all well and good.. but Im just saying if the kid was saying something true without being offensive(calling her a bitch, throwing something etc.) then why should he be punished for speaking the truth?

[Rameek]

Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.
Exactly why I would never teach again. Most people have no idea what it entails to teach.

But to have a child/teenager feel they have the right to challenge an adult is where society has failed. When good teachers have to face children/teenagers that dont know boundaries the system is failing. And I am not even saying bad teachers because there are plenty of them. But the lack of respect by children/teenagers for their parents let alone a teacher is a deterrent. Then you meet the children/teenagers parents and you realize they have the lack of self control, self discipline and self respect as their child/teenager.

I would never ever suggest anyone to become a teacher unless they can go to a quality school to teach.

As far as the video its possible that teacher is there for the paycheck or they were worn down.

Like Gatorkid said I loved teaching and coaching in Japan for the most part.

[IamRAMBO24]

Exactly why I would never teach again. Most people have no idea what it entails to teach.

But to have a child/teenager feel they have the right to challenge an adult is where society has failed. When good teachers have to face children/teenagers that dont know boundaries the system is failing. And I am not even saying bad teachers because there are plenty of them. But the lack of respect by children/teenagers for their parents let alone a teacher is a deterrent. Then you meet the children/teenagers parents and you realize they have the lack of self control, self discipline and self respect as their child/teenager.

I would never ever suggest anyone to become a teacher unless they can go to a quality school to teach.

As far as the video its possible that teacher is there for the paycheck or they were worn down.

Like Gatorkid said I loved teaching and coaching in Japan for the most part.

The irony is strict discipline generates rebellion. It is ok to be strict, but you have to find a balance. Some kids struggle in school because the curriculum is boring and too rigid, for example, as stated above, they don't teach you math anymore; they tell you to use a calculator and memorize the answers. I'm sorry to say, but memorizing a bunch of sh*t and repeating it on a test is boring as f*ck, and I can understand why kids become disinterested in school. It doesn't make kids who feel this way bad students; it's not a one way street. In China, they firmly believe if a kid fails, it is the fault of the teacher; in America, we always blame the kids, but noone ever criticizes the curriculum and the method of teaching.

[tpols]

Exactly why I would never teach again. Most people have no idea what it entails to teach.

But to have a child/teenager feel they have the right to challenge an adult is where society has failed. When good teachers have to face children/teenagers that dont know boundaries the system is failing. And I am not even saying bad teachers because there are plenty of them. But the lack of respect by children/teenagers for their parents let alone a teacher is a deterrent. Then you meet the children/teenagers parents and you realize they have the lack of self control, self discipline and self respect as their child/teenager.

I would never ever suggest anyone to become a teacher unless they can go to a quality school to teach.

As far as the video its possible that teacher is there for the paycheck or they were worn down.

Like Gatorkid said I loved teaching and coaching in Japan for the most part.
Yea.. the reason kids dont respect teachers is because.. are teachers really experts in their topics? Do you need to be some sort of senior scientist to teach biology? Do you have to have a phd in cold war history to teach American History 2?

Nope. You dont really need shit. Just read from the book, make some powerpoints and make the kids mindlessly regurgitate it.

When I think of teaching I tihnk old type greek schools where a scholar would take a kid under his wing and inspire him to be great in whatever field. Scoietys to big and full of morons to do that now.. so nothing will change. The good students will always show an interest though so well still progress.

[Rake2204]

Thats all well and good.. but Im just saying if the kid was saying something true without being offensive(calling her a bitch, throwing something etc.) then why should he be punished for speaking the truth?I feel you here. This is certainly a unique situation and the simple fact this kid's semi-outburst has led to discussions like this one all across the nation and/or world proves that sometimes challenging the status quo, even if it's at the wrong time and in the wrong place, can provide us an opportunity to think twice about what we're doing and why we're doing it.

That said, classrooms do tend to have rules that discourage misbehavior, dissent and a general lack of disrespect. In this particular case, I think it can be argued as to whether this student was breaking any rules. Then again, we'd probably also have to know what he did to earn his suggested removal from class in the first place.

Based on his rant alone though, I don't think this particular case would warrant any sort of punishment. Generally speaking though, I do not believe classrooms can afford to open the floor to any and all students to go on diatribes against the system whenever they personally feel it's prudent.

[Rasheed1]

The kid in the video did nothing wrong (during the video)... Children should be able to challenge teachers (intellectually not physically). That is apart of true learning. When a teacher can put to rest the questions in a child's mind? then the child will begin to accept the knowledge being offered.

Some kids will call BS and a competent teacher should be able to handle those situations without simply throwing the kid out of class for questioning them. True learning is a process much deeper than simple indoctrination..

school would be alot more stimulating if it wasnt simply indoctrination and teaching kids to 'pass the test' instead of teaching them how to think critically.

Ive done a small bit of teaching (ive mostly been in administration through my career) but I plan to do some teaching and I know I will need to be creative to get around the stiff curriculums and testing outlines that bog teachers down.

Teaching kids to learn how to "think" is the key. Teaching them to take pride in being able to think critically in all the things they do will help them be more curious in life and make better decisions for themselves in the future.

Some kids are really thirsty for that knowledge and they should have more opportunities to get it than they currently do

[IamRAMBO24]

The kid in the video did nothing wrong (during the video)... Children should be able to challenge teachers (intellectually not physically). That is apart of true learning. When a teacher can put to rest the questions in a child's mind? then the child will begin to accept the knowledge being offered.

Some kids will call BS and a competent teacher should be able to handle those situations without simply throwing the kid out of class for questioning them. True learning is a process much deeper than simple indoctrination..

school would be alot more stimulating if it wasnt simply indoctrination and teaching kids to 'pass the test' instead of teaching them how to think critically.

Ive done a small bit of teaching (ive mostly been in administration through my career) but I plan to do some teaching and I know I will need to be creative to get around the stiff curriculums and testing outlines that bog teachers down.

Teaching kids to learn how to "think" is the key. Teaching them to take pride in being able to think critically in all the things they do will help them be more curious in life and make better decisions for themselves in the future.

Some kids are really thirsty for that knowledge and they should have more opportunities to get it than they currently do

If you can manage to do that without getting fired, then you will be one of those rare teachers a lot of kids credit for their success in life.

The above poster got in trouble for trying to teach a student how to arrive at a math answer rather than letting him take the shortcut with a calculator.

Sadly, the curriculum overburdens the teachers with materials which can stifle learning. Learning should be a slow process, but if too much material is being thrown at the students, there won't be any time to reflect on the material, hence why they are told to just memorize as fast as possible and pass it on a test.

[Rake2204]

Yea.. the reason kids dont respect teachers is because.. are teachers really experts in their topics? Do you need to be some sort of senior scientist to teach biology? Do you have to have a phd in cold war history to teach American History 2?

Nope. You dont really need shit. Just read from the book, make some powerpoints and make the kids mindlessly regurgitate it.

When I think of teaching I tihnk old type greek schools where a scholar would take a kid under his wing and inspire him to be great in whatever field. Scoietys to big and full of morons to do that now.. so nothing will change. The good students will always show an interest though so well still progress.I cannot agree with you in this regard. While teachers are not required to hold Ph.D's, they are required to be highly qualified in their given field. It doesn't mean they're geniuses, but it does usually mean they have more than enough knowledge on a given subject to educate high school level students and below.

I believe it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to expect students to respect teachers because most often teachers are folks who have put an inordinate amount of time and effort into finding ways to ensure those students are able to carve something worthwhile and useful out their lives. Does every teacher deserve blind respect? Clearly not. But I do believe it'd be silly to excuse a student's disrespect simply because a teacher does not hold a Ph.D.

[Rameek]

It's hard to teach children that lack self discipline and self control and understanding boundaries.

Children/Teenagers without these qualities but for the sake of argument can try to tell any teacher they dont want to learn x y z at a whim because its boring and unstimulating. Not everything is fun and exciting. There are things that are what they are.

Learning is applied knowledge. It does require some memorization but teachers are not teaching to entertain students. That requires time consuming planning that a teacher doesnt have the time in the day to for every lesson. No one is debating that students shouldnt be engaged.

Children/Teenagers have a rebellious nature that will go against anything they deem unworthy of their time no matter what a teacher does.

Again in the video had the teacher been a packet making sit down and used inappropriate language and crossed the line then she has opened up this behavior.

Again I site the type of rebellious nature that a teacher should not have to deal with.... This statement is the absolutely asinine (I am not saying you are or your opinion isnt valid)


tpols: Yea.. the reason kids dont respect teachers is because.. are teachers really experts in their topics? Do you need to be some sort of senior scientist to teach biology? Do you have to have a phd in cold war history to teach American History 2?

Nope. You dont really need shit. Just read from the book, make some powerpoints and make the kids mindlessly regurgitate it.


These are the statements heard daily by a teacher from a child/teenager. The nerve of a child to question a teacher in such a manner is utterly disrespectful.

Everyone here has a style they want a teacher to present to make education work. And the ones that do not get that style then its there right to be rebellious?

As much as the school system has failed America so has the parents of children that believe a child/teenager gets to question an adult at every turn.

In what occupation can a subordinate question a supervisor or manager or president or owner of a company or establishment outright. What would the outcome be for that child/teenager/employee in the real world?

[tpols]

In what occupation can a subordinate question a supervisor or manager or president or owner of a company or establishment outright. What would the outcome be for that child/teenager/employee in the real world?
If you have a bad manager or boss who is a terrible decision maker doesnt get shit done right, etc. youre right you cant question him really. All you can do is do your work so well as to build a good rep/provide value and then rise up to a position where you can do something.. but then youll just have another guy ahead of you anyways.

Teachers you have a little more leeway.. they dont dictate your salary, and if you question them but study hard and get As, theres nothing they can really do to you. Im not saying you can be disrespectful, and this kid was approaching the boundary.. but you should be able to at least privately talk to the teacher about their methods.

And yes youre right, you can never question credentials, of course. Even if it may be true in some cases.

[Rameek]

If you have a bad manager or boss who is a terrible decision maker doesnt get shit done right, etc. youre right you cant question him really. All you can do is do your work so well as to build a good rep/provide value and then rise up to a position where you can do something.. but then youll just have another guy ahead of you anyways.

Teachers you have a little more leeway.. they dont dictate your salary, and if you question them but study hard and get As, theres nothing they can really do to you. Im not saying you can be disrespectful, and this kid was approaching the boundary.. but you should be able to at least privately talk to the teacher about their methods.

And yes youre right, you can never question credentials, of course. Even if it may be true in some cases.
Agreed as a student you have more power to change what happens in the classroom but you dont have to challenge the teacher disrespectfully unless the teacher crosses the line. Students can go to parents and administration which is appropriate.

My problem always has been students think they are on equal footing with a teacher. This is what makes boundaries important. Children/Teenagers lack the self discipline, self control etc because they dont recognize they are not adults yet but they want to be treated with the same level as an adult. They are not adults they are not mature, knowledgeable, and wise enough for that equal status.

This is why I say parents have failed because children/teenagers dont respect that distinction.

As you said in the real world you would never behave in such a manner whether the teacher is right or wrong. But for some reason in our society starting with parents this line has been blurred.

If a teacher crosses those boundaries then they get what they deserve. But from my experience only paying students understand these boundaries or in the Asian countries. Not that children/teenagers dont challenge the system or the teachers and hold them accountable but in America too many children/teenagers try to think like adults and demand that respect and equal footing when it just isnt so.

For example I would never have my children in an environment where the teacher is not doing there job and students are disruptive in the classroom.

[Rameek]

In New York I had to spend the better part of a month or 2 setting up discipline and commanding and earning the respect of the students. This is the fault of our Society and parents. I have to motivate, discipline, make engaging lessons, teach children boundaries, teach respect, make sure they do homework, do well on standardize test, grade test, deal with home issues, hormonal changes etc etc....

I go to Japan I can just teach and deal with wayward outliers as the situation arises. Or paying students (students with tuition) I can just go teach etc etc

[Rasheed1]

In New York I had to spend the better part of a month or 2 setting up discipline and commanding and earning the respect of the students. This is the fault of our Society and parents. I have to motivate, discipline, make engaging lessons, teach children boundaries, teach respect, make sure they do homework, do well on standardize test, grade test, deal with home issues, hormonal changes etc etc....

I go to Japan I can just teach and deal with wayward outliers as the situation arises. Or paying students (students with tuition) I can just go teach etc etc





thats just the way it is here.. we should be past the point of complaining about it if you are teaching here..

commanding respect and teaching children boundaries is simply apart of the job.. it can be done, and it is done everyday by plenty of teachers

the part of a teacher's job (especially in bad neighborhoods) that is unfair imo is the trap that is set for teachers...

children are a product of their environments and school is only a portion of their environments... If teachers are to be held accountable by the state and by the school board for outcome of the children? then the teachers will need more resources, support from community, state, and school board.

You do a wonderful job teaching a child discipline and critical thinking during the school day, but if the child lives in a dysfunctional environment? then the kid simply goes home at night and has all your hard work undone by the dysfunctional forces that dominate his life.

it is unfair to have some of these AYP programs that put the onus on teachers to do the impossible while at the same time the state and the school board continues to cut the resources and play games with the school districts for profit and political purposes..

Its plain as day that the needs of the children do not come first, and that has to change if anything positive is going to happen in public education in this country. There are plenty of hard working teachers who can work with almost any kid if the teachers receive the kind of supports they need from the higher ups..

Without the support? its just a trap where the teachers are scapegoated for failing kids and a failing educational system.

[Rameek]

Sheed I wholeheartedly agree and I am not making excuses for terrible teachers but then have a small sliver of understanding what a good or normal teacher has to go through in a day. Low income or otherwise environment. People saying teachers get overpaid really? When you have to literally raise these children yourself for the few hours a day you are with them? I've got to teach children/teenagers values, self respect, motivate, self esteem, social norms (That is the parents job!) etc etc make test, grade test, give papers, grade papers, give quizes, grade quizes, prepare for standardized test, lesson plan, make sure its engaging and entertaining... To have to deal with lack of parental support or involvement until the child comes home to complain about the teacher or the lack of support and resources from the school system and administration.

I say hold bad teachers accountable but it isnt easy being a teacher. They are not overpaid.

I chose to give it up here in the States.

[Clifton]

Teachers are generally overpaid anyway. $40,000-$100,000 to work 8 hours/day, 180 days a year?
More like $40-60,000 to work 8 hours a day, then go home and grade and prepare for the next day's classes, all while taking care of their own kids.

And since most parents rely on the public school system to raise their kids, the job itself ends up being quite a bit more than merely "teaching."

"But they get the summer off." I won't say most, but many teachers have to supplement their incomes at least by working a lot of the summer. Many more have to take on extra grading or teaching opportunities besides their main day job.

Teachers should be paid enough to live comfortably. Any given teacher you pick at random probably works harder than you and makes less. Not that a person should be paid strictly according to "how hard they work," but people who perform a valuable service to society should be able to afford to feed a family.

[Rake2204]

the part of a teacher's job (especially in bad neighborhoods) that is unfair imo is the trap that is set for teachers...

children are a product of their environments and school is only a portion of their environments... If teachers are to be held accountable by the state and by the school board for outcome of the children? then the teachers will need more resources, support from community, state, and school board.

You do a wonderful job teaching a child discipline and critical thinking during the school day, but if the child lives in a dysfunctional environment? then the kid simply goes home at night and has all your hard work undone by the dysfunctional forces that dominate his life.

it is unfair to have some of these AYP programs that put the onus on teachers to do the impossible while at the same time the state and the school board continues to cut the resources and play games with the school districts for profit and political purposes..

Its plain as day that the needs of the children do not come first, and that has to change if anything positive is going to happen in public education in this country. There are plenty of hard working teachers who can work with almost any kid if the teachers receive the kind of supports they need from the higher ups..

Without the support? its just a trap where the teachers are scapegoated for failing kids and a failing educational system.Good stuff. I agree with you here. As a teacher, I actually like the idea of being held accountable. However, I'm not entirely convinced measuring a teacher's worth and pay based upon their student's quiz and test scores would be the way to go.

As you said, a student's ability to learn and progress is only partly reliant upon a teacher's in-class ability. Home environment, parental guidance, and socio-economic level are just a few of the other major factors that can heavily affect a student's ability to pass a test or improve upon their test knowledge over a given period of time.

I feel as though the last thing we'd want to do is turn student grades and test results into a means of competition amongst teachers. If we feel educators are teaching to the test now, just wait to see what happens if their student's test scores begin affecting their salary.

But that's pretty much the system we're headed toward right now (if we're not there already). Immersion, critical thought, and understanding are all secondary qualities to teaching right now, only coming after the priorities of unstoppable forward progress (comprehension notwithstanding), benchmark meeting, and solid standardized test scores that never stop improving year by year by year.


More like $40-60,000 to work 8 hours a day, then go home and grade and prepare for the next day's classes, all while taking care of their own kids.

And since most parents rely on the public school system to raise their kids, the job itself ends up being quite a bit more than merely "teaching."

"But they get the summer off." I won't say most, but many teachers have to supplement their incomes at least by working a lot of the summer. Many more have to take on extra grading or teaching opportunities besides their main day job.

Teachers should be paid enough to live comfortably. Any given teacher you pick at random probably works harder than you and makes less. Not that a person should be paid strictly according to "how hard they work," but people who perform a valuable service to society should be able to afford to feed a family.Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.

[tpols]

More like $40-60,000 to work 8 hours a day, then go home and grade and prepare for the next day's classes, all while taking care of their own kids.

And since most parents rely on the public school system to raise their kids, the job itself ends up being quite a bit more than merely "teaching."

"But they get the summer off." I won't say most, but many teachers have to supplement their incomes at least by working a lot of the summer. Many more have to take on extra grading or teaching opportunities besides their main day job.

Teachers should be paid enough to live comfortably. Any given teacher you pick at random probably works harder than you and makes less. Not that a person should be paid strictly according to "how hard they work," but people who perform a valuable service to society should be able to afford to feed a family.
I think it depends on the teacher to be honest.. Like my mom is a teacher of special ed kindergarden kids. Kids who curse all day, fight, come from bad environments.. call her TAs bitches, spit, throw things. Pretty much the worst thing you can imagine.:oldlol:

And her job is to try and haul them in from their bad habits.. thats a whole other level of teaching right there.

Then you have my high school spanish teacher, who was spanish himself knew the language since a little kid who dealt with us being pretty respectable older kids who were going to a good HS and cared at least a bit about material.. All he had to do was teach for half hour out the book and make us do exercises, check our HW, do tests/quizes. Not that crazy of reposnibility. He used to joke with us all the time and was a decent teacher, but its clear he didnt have some crazy workload.

3 80 minute teaching blocks and 1 80 minute block to work in his office.. 730-3ish 5 days a week with tenure only 5 years away to be locked into a good salary and full benfits for life?

Id take that in a heart beat right now. Hes one of the lucky teachers though.

[Rameek]

Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.
In most states this is common practice.

[Clifton]

Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.
Something that's very strange to me is how increasingly hard it is to become a public school teacher, while at the same time, high school graduates are seriously dumb, undereducated people. I include myself here. When I graduated high school, I knew nothing. And I was one of the smart ones, and my school was good. But I had class-class-test mentality, and at the end of it I basically knew no history, science, or literature that happened before the Alabama Bus Boycott. I didn't know a foreign language and I didn't understand my own. And I had zero moral or character formation other than whatever you get in team sports.

And it's like... ok... all my teachers over age 40 have Master's degrees. Great. That doesn't help me understand the world around me and those who dwell in it, at all. But if I have to match Charlemagne with four multiple choice options on a test, I have excellent test-taking strategies to help me do that.

[Rake2204]

Something that's very strange to me is how increasingly hard it is to become a public school teacher, while at the same time, high school graduates are seriously dumb, undereducated people. I include myself here. When I graduated high school, I knew nothing. And I was one of the smart ones, and my school was good. But I had class-class-test mentality, and at the end of it I basically knew no history, science, or literature that happened before the Alabama Bus Boycott. I didn't know a foreign language and I didn't understand my own. And I had zero moral or character formation other than whatever you get in team sports.

And it's like... ok... all my teachers over age 40 have Master's degrees. Great. That doesn't help me understand the world around me and those who dwell in it, at all. But if I have to match Charlemagne with four multiple choice options on a test, I have excellent test-taking strategies to help me do that.That about sums it up. There's a lot of folks out there desperately trying to quantify all aspects of education but in their haste, they're quantifying but a small, small portion of what matters and treating it as if it's all that matters.

How do you quantify intriguing discussion? How do you measure whether a teacher is able to bring out the best in a student? What test is provided to show how a student's moralistic outlook was positively affected by a life-changing teacher role model? Instead, we test to see if everyone understands the Pythagorean Theorem and we judge an educator's worth based upon the results.

While we're at it, we insist teachers go back and take some classes, any classes, so they can eventually add what is oftentimes a worthless title to their name (many of the classes offered for teachers to re-new their certificates are generalized busy-work classes with no all-encompassing direction).

As I said before, this is it:

"What was educationally significant and hard to measure has been replaced by what is educationally insignificant and easy to measure. So now we measure how well we taught what isn't worth learning." - Arthur Costa

[mlh1981]

Before my current job, I spent a few months at an inner city elementary school in south St. Petersburg (very rough part of town). My biggest problems were the following: I came from a small, rural town in Ohio, and I had zero clue on how to deal with these kids, knowledge of where they came from, and understanding of how to deal with these situations, none of which I could EVER possibly relate to. I never recieved any proper training. New inner city teachers NEED intensive training They provided me a mentor teacher, gave me the curriculum, I was told that it was "gonna be tough" and that's about it.

Admittedly, these kids ate me alive. Most of my time was spent dealing with behavior issues, there was zero parental involvement (many of them had disconnected phones), and I left each day feeling frustrated beyond belief. My days were long, as I started at around 7 am and got home at about 6-6:30. Other teachers were routinely cussed out. That never happened to me, but fights, kids running out of class, and destroying classroom materials was a common occurance.

Through it all, I was unsure about my own approach. Too much yelling--they tune you out. Keeping an steady tone--sign of weaknesses. It takes a really special individual to teach at these schools. 2 months into the school year, I was placed on administrative leave.

I now know why they recruited me out of state. People currently in the district don't want these jobs. Very few can hack it.

[NuggetsFan]

Best part is the kid was probably doing that to fck with his teacher and get a laugh/attention from his classmates. I seriously doubt that kid is all rah rah about education and was just being a brat.

I don't know if there overpaid/underpaid but I have no idea why some people would want to deal with 14-17 year old kids. I had a few shitty teachers, but when I think about it, the mental strength some of these people have not to just unload and beat the piss outta some of these kids is crazy.

Maybe why you don't get highly qualified and educated people in HS. They'd get a handful of kids that wanted to actually learn, handful who didn't give a shit, and a handful that wanted to make there life miserable. Just makes sense to teach college instead of HS, atleast that's the way I'd look at it if I was some really smart educated guy.

[enayes]

Good stuff. I agree with you here. As a teacher, I actually like the idea of being held accountable. However, I'm not entirely convinced measuring a teacher's worth and pay based upon their student's quiz and test scores would be the way to go.

As you said, a student's ability to learn and progress is only partly reliant upon a teacher's in-class ability. Home environment, parental guidance, and socio-economic level are just a few of the other major factors that can heavily affect a student's ability to pass a test or improve upon their test knowledge over a given period of time.

I feel as though the last thing we'd want to do is turn student grades and test results into a means of competition amongst teachers. If we feel educators are teaching to the test now, just wait to see what happens if their student's test scores begin affecting their salary.

But that's pretty much the system we're headed toward right now (if we're not there already). Immersion, critical thought, and understanding are all secondary qualities to teaching right now, only coming after the priorities of unstoppable forward progress (comprehension notwithstanding), benchmark meeting, and solid standardized test scores that never stop improving year by year by year.

Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.

This is required in most states and is why the majority of people get a Master's degree. Once you have your Master's you are not required to take any more credits. So you mine as well get the degree if you have to take classes anyway.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.

He was disrupting class.

[Jackass18]

Nobody posted the update video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKjqjpePhTc