Kobe will NEVER be better than MJ

[andgar923]

And Bron will be remembered as being superior than Kobe.

Stop trying to come up with hypothetical scenarios and lame excuses.

[ripthekik]

Mj of course.

As for lebron.. he is the big asterisk that ran with his tails behind him to join another top 3 player with another top 5 pf. Why is his name in the conversation again? :oldlol:

[gengiskhan]

And Bron will be remembered as being superior than Kobe.

Stop trying to come up with hypothetical scenarios and lame excuses.

LBJ once 2nd MVP "SWEEP", 2nd Ring with 2nd FMVP will LOCK 10th GOAT spot forever.

Lets face the reality here.

4 mvps, 2 fmvps is just too much for 12-14 spot kobe to handle.

Kobe is more in the company of moses, charles, duncan, malone etc.

[Legends66NBA7]

Who's coming up with legit hypothetical scenarios ? I've never seen one on here.

[WayOfWade]

Was he ever supposed to be?

[unbreakable]

andgar has proven he dont know shlt about hoops so just move along people.. move along

[uoykcuf]

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1644/bronrings.gif

[gengiskhan]

Was he ever supposed to be?

This.

ESPN & NBA hype to desperately annoint 2nd coming of Michael Jordan.

All this done to sell NBA tickets.

Many dont realize LAL has won DESPITE kobe & not inspite of him.

West & coach Phil Built a great franchise there who recruited NBA's top defensive talent & BIG MEN talent to come play for LAL.

This resulted in Kobe's bloated & inflated legacy.

Kobe is great but he is drexler kind of great.

you factor in playing for & pampered by NBA's winningest franchise that can deliver rings, you are inflating legacy to Shaq's level, a GUARANTEED LOCKED Top 10 GOATs.

Shaq delivered LAL franchise rings.

LAL franchise delivered Kobe rings.

two different things.


Shaq was due to win rings btw 1999-2004 even with 3rd of 4rh best franchises then in NBA.


Kobe can only win ring in LA.


Huge difference!

[TonyMontana]

Kobe is ancient history.

His time is over and he failed. He couldn't even make it to the playoffs with his hall of fame lineup projected to win 60+ games and the conference. His only hope of remaining relevant in the NBA is to find a superstar to leech off of at this point. I'd like to say he isn't welcome in Miami.

This years failure kicks him out of the top ten all-time for sure.

Meanwhile LeBron is on his way to matching Kobes Finals MVPs at age 28, having 4x as many MVPs, and just being a better basketball player overall. The sky is the limit for LeBron, but for Kobe? He is finished.

[G-Funk]

Kobe is ancient history.

His time is over and he failed. He couldn't even make it to the playoffs with his hall of fame lineup projected to win 60+ games and the conference. His only hope of remaining relevant in the NBA is to find a superstar to leech off of at this point. I'd like to say he isn't welcome in Miami.

This years failure kicks him out of the top ten all-time for sure.

Meanwhile LeBron is on his way to matching Kobes Finals MVPs at age 28, having 4x as many MVPs, and just being a better basketball player overall. The sky is the limit for LeBron, but for Kobe? He is finished.

Lebron couldnt win with a dominant Shaq

[Rooster]

This.

ESPN & NBA hype to desperately annoint 2nd coming of Michael Jordan.

All this done to sell NBA tickets.

Many dont realize LAL has won DESPITE kobe & not inspite of him.

West & coach Phil Built a great franchise there who recruited NBA's top defensive talent & BIG MEN talent to come play for LAL.

This resulted in Kobe's bloated & inflated legacy.

Kobe is great but he is drexler kind of great.

you factor in playing for & pampered by NBA's winningest franchise that can deliver rings, you are inflating legacy to Shaq's level, a GUARANTEED LOCKED Top 10 GOATs.

Shaq delivered LAL franchise rings.

LAL franchise delivered Kobe rings.

two different things

Shaq was due to win rings btw 1999-2004 even with 3rd of 4rh best franchises then in NBA.


Kobe can only win ring in LA.


Huge difference!

Lakers won 5 rings and Kobe was a big part for every single of it. Sure he will never be greater than Jordan but if theres anything close it's him. You can hate all you want but you can't rewrite history.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe is ancient history.

His time is over and he failed. He couldn't even make it to the playoffs with his hall of fame lineup projected to win 60+ games and the conference. His only hope of remaining relevant in the NBA is to find a superstar to leech off of at this point. I'd like to say he isn't welcome in Miami.

This years failure kicks him out of the top ten all-time for sure.

Meanwhile LeBron is on his way to matching Kobes Finals MVPs at age 28, having 4x as many MVPs, and just being a better basketball player overall. The sky is the limit for LeBron, but for Kobe? He is finished.

He was never a Top 10 GOAT to begin with.

when you factor in his efficiency, stats, individual accolades etc etc there is nothing there besides 5 rings

but rings are won by winning franchises with great management & great coaches.

Its not like Kobe turned warriors or magic franchise to championship calibre.

argument of kobe has 5 rings dont hold up at all when you play for NBA's best franchise ever which has 16 rings!

Kobe was great but not GOAT calibre.

[gengiskhan]

Lebron couldnt win with a SERNIOR CITIZEN INJURY RIDDEN Shaq

corrected for FULL RETARD = Kobe'tard

[NumberSix]

Lakers won 5 rings and Kobe was a big part for 4 of them. Sure he will never be greater than Jordan but if theres anything close it's him. You can hate all you want but you can't rewrite history.
Fixed

[Rooster]

Kobe is ancient history.

His time is over and he failed. He couldn't even make it to the playoffs with his hall of fame lineup projected to win 60+ games and the conference. His only hope of remaining relevant in the NBA is to find a superstar to leech off of at this point. I'd like to say he isn't welcome in Miami.

This years failure kicks him out of the top ten all-time for sure.

Meanwhile LeBron is on his way to matching Kobes Finals MVPs at age 28, having 4x as many MVPs, and just being a better basketball player overall. The sky is the limit for LeBron, but for Kobe? He is finished.

If putting 5 rings in your finger is FAILURE than 99% failed. You guys are funny sometimes. Maybe Lebron will be a greater player but that does not change the fact about Kobe.

[Rooster]

Fixed

Enlighten me with the other one please

[TonyMontana]

He was never a Top 10 GOAT to begin with.

when you factor in his efficiency, stats, individual accolades etc etc there is nothing there besides 5 rings

but rings are won by winning franchises with great management & great coaches.

Its not like Kobe turned warriors or magic franchise to championship calibre.

argument of kobe has 5 rings dont hold up at all when you play for NBA's best franchise ever which has 16 rings!

Kobe was great but not GOAT calibre.

Yeah good points considering his 5 rings were all because he played on the most stacked team.

He never faced adversity like LeBron in Game 6 vs Boston or even won a single series as an underdog like LeBron and the Heat upsetting the OKC Thunder.

Even when he got drafted by a Charlotte, he bitched his way to LA. When he was mad Shaq was getting the credit for LAs success he cried til he had his own team. When he couldn't win a single series as the man he cried to management and demanded to be traded because he just didn't have the talent to win a single playoff series on his own.

The guy is pathetic and has benefitted from stacked casts more than any other player in NBA History.

[willds09]

Lebron will NEVER be better than Kobe

[KyleKong]

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1644/bronrings.gif

:lol

[gengiskhan]

Lebron will NEVER be better than Kobe

4th MVP.

Best player since 2008 - present even in an era in which LAL franchise was gifted Kobe rings.

LBJ was still better.

[Rooster]

Yeah good points considering his 5 rings were all because he played on the most stacked team.

He never faced adversity like LeBron in Game 6 vs Boston or even won a single series as an underdog like LeBron and the Heat upsetting the OKC Thunder.

Even when he got drafted by a Charlotte, he bitched his way to LA. When he was mad Shaq was getting the credit for LAs success he cried til he had his own team. When he couldn't win a single series as the man he cried to management and demanded to be traded because he just didn't have the talent to win a single playoff series on his own.

The guy is pathetic and has benefitted from stacked casts more than any other player in NBA History.

Kobe never adversity?:oldlol:

You probably started watching when Lebron started playing.

Kobe has been there done that since Lebron is in high school.

[willds09]

4th MVP.

Best player since 2008 - present even in an era in which LAL franchise was gifted Kobe rings.

LBJ was still better.
kobe played in tha west for 17 years, won 5 rings, more all star mvps than lebron.
lebron played for tha east his whole career, 1 given ring.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe never adversity?:oldlol:

You probably started watching when Lebron started playing.

Kobe has been there done since Lebron is in high school.

Yes.

NEVER.

When kobe was starting to face ADVERSITY! he wanted to LEAVE LAL in 2007.

remember that!

LBJ never THREATENED to leave a CLE franchise that got him ZERO rings.

KOBE under adversity THREATENED to leave NBA"S BEST FRANCHISE EVER after getting 3 RINGS!

this is not the first adversity kobe was chickening out of.

2004 Kobe FAILED as well. Driving SHAQ out. Phil called him "UNCOACHABLE"

[willds09]

Yes.

NEVER.

When kobe was starting to face ADVERSITY! he wanted to LEAVE LAL in 2007.

remember that!

LBJ never THREATENED to leave a CLE franchise that got him ZERO rings.

KOBE under adversity THREATENED to leave NBA"S BEST FRANCHISE EVER after getting 3 RINGS!

this is not the first adversity kobe was chickening out of.

2004 Kobe FAILED as well. Driving SHAQ out. Phil called him "UNCOACHABLE"
but what happened?? kobe still stayed with tha lakers, and lebron quit and joined two superstars just to win a ring.

[gengiskhan]

kobe played in tha west for 17 years, won 5 rings, more all star mvps than lebron.
lebron played for tha east his whole career, 1 given ring.

all-star mvps. :lol :roll:

3 rings without fmvp are NOT Gifts given. :lol :roll:

1 ring with CLEAN MVP SWEEP is a Gift. :lol :roll:

0 out of 5 rings has Season MVP SWEEP are NOT Gifts. :lol :roll:


all-star mvps. :lol :lol


IQs must be checked before giving username & password on ISH.

[ripthekik]

LBJ never THREATENED to leave a CLE franchise that got him ZERO rings.

KOBE under adversity THREATENED to leave NBA"S BEST FRANCHISE EVER after getting 3 RINGS!

What lebron did was worst. He didn't threaten, he just left. What he did was the equivalent of a father just leaving his kid in the middle of the night without leaving a word behind.

What kobe did? It was a tactic to make the office make better moves. And guess what happened a few years after? :pimp:
Using the same example, it would be Kobe telling the wife to get her shiiit together, then they continue on to be one big happy family.

Lebron's the guy that left, Kobe's the guy that continue to give chances, and pushes his own organization to make better moves instead of just leaving them.

Tell me again who's worst here?

[Rooster]

Yes.

NEVER.

When kobe was starting to face ADVERSITY! he wanted to LEAVE LAL in 2007.

remember that!

LBJ never THREATENED to leave a CLE franchise that got him ZERO rings.

KOBE under adversity THREATENED to leave NBA"S BEST FRANCHISE EVER after getting 3 RINGS!

this is not the first adversity kobe was chickening out of.

2004 Kobe FAILED as well. Driving SHAQ out. Phil called him "UNCOACHABLE"

Let me help you down the memory lane.

Game 5, other team has the momentum do or die

Down 14 game 7, other team has the momentum.

Big Fella fouled out, injured but won the game in OT

Other team was slight favorite with home court advantage and sweep them

Down 3-2, other team has all that momentum

Down 10 late in the 4th, again with another great team

Down 16, defending champ has the lead .



Etc Etc So many others

You probably did not see these games

Because you only know who won

But you don't know how the champions were made.

[KyleKong]

What lebron did was worst. He didn't threaten, he just left. What he did was the equivalent of a father just leaving his kid in the middle of the night without leaving a word behind.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Rooster]

but what happened?? kobe still stayed with tha lakers, and lebron quit and joined two superstars just to win a ring.

Not only that, the UNCOACHABLE was coached again by the same guy.

Common sense

Whatever Kobe did

Must have been right after all:confusedshrug:

5 rings:rockon:

[gengiskhan]

What lebron did was worst. He didn't threaten, he just left. What he did was the equivalent of a father just leaving his kid in the middle of the night without leaving a word behind.

What kobe did? It was a tactic to make the office make better moves. And guess what happened a few years after? :pimp:
Using the same example, it would be Kobe telling the wife to get her shiiit together, then they continue on to be one big happy family.

Lebron's the guy that left, Kobe's the guy that continue to give chances, and pushes his own organization to make better moves instead of just leaving them.

Tell me again who's worst here?

What LBJ did was BEST.

CLE is EXACT OPPOSITE of LAL franchise.

That franchise was happy with LBJ collecting MVPs & making it a CASH COW!

Rings, championships dont mean anything to CLE.

LBJ forced that team to NBA Finals & that was the farthest it will ever get.

NO all-star in his peak prime yrs in right mind will ever play for CLE, its a DEAD city with nothing to do.

LBJ by walking out made the BEST CAREER DECISION.

The way he made the decision was wrong. I agree

now he is Establishing GOAT status.

If LBJ wins 3 ring HEAT with 3 MVPs, he'll LOCK Top 8 GOAT spot ahead of SHAQ.


Just imagine what his career would've been as CAV. :lol :roll:

[willds09]

all-star mvps. :lol :roll:

3 rings without fmvp are NOT Gifts given. :lol :roll:

1 ring with CLEAN MVP SWEEP is a Gift. :lol :roll:

0 out of 5 rings has Season MVP SWEEP are NOT Gifts. :lol :roll:


all-star mvps. :lol :lol


IQs must be checked before giving username & password on ISH.
you sound real dumb thinking kobe's rings are given and lebron's arent.

[Quizno]

great thread, thanks for sharing. will bookmark and read again. plz make more threads like this, youre a stand up guy. thanks pal

[gengiskhan]

Not only that, the UNCOACHABLE was coached again by the same guy.

Common sense

Whatever Kobe did

Must have been right after all:confusedshrug:

5 rings:rockon:

retard.

LAL with management led by Jerry West know Phil & West can get talents like Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest

NBA's dominant big men & best perimeter defense (artest is DPOY) to LAL & win more.

All this DESPITE kobe's ball hogging, shot jocking "JUST GET THE REBOUND" attitude.

Phil is a fantastic coach. He just ignored kobe.

But still Kobe destroyed Phils FOURTH 3-peat by sabotaging 2008 NBA Finals.

You just didnt see the whole picture.

[ripthekik]

Kobe should really be applauded for his actions. Instead of leaving, he forces management to make better moves. This ends up to 2 championships few years later, how great is Kobe :bowdown:

if Lebron had done the same, he would have easily been able to win in CLE. He already went to the finals, and was a 60+ win twice?? He was basically 1 piece away from a championship team. But he only knows to quit.. not how to adjust.. that's the difference between him and Kobe.

Thanks to gengiskhan for pointing this out to us all:applause:

[willds09]

Not only that, the UNCOACHABLE was coached again by the same guy.

Common sense

Whatever Kobe did

Must have been right after all:confusedshrug:

5 rings:rockon:
exactly. dem lebron stans just dont wanna admit it:confusedshrug:

[Rooster]

retard.

LAL with management led by Jerry West now Phil & West can get talents like Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest

NBA's dominant big men & best perimeter defense (artest is DPOY) to LAL & win more.

All this DESPITE kobe's ball hogging, shot jocking "JUST GET THE REBOUND" attitude.

Phil is a fantastic coach. He just ignored kobe.

But still Kobe destroyed Phils FOURTH 3-peat by sabotaging 2008 NBA Finals.

You just didnt see the whole picture.

So you give credit Lebron for winning with Wade and Bosh

Yet Kobe can't get credit because he has Gasol and Artest.

Hmm interesting:oldlol:

[gengiskhan]

Kobe should really be applauded for his actions. Instead of leaving, he forces management to make better moves. This ends up to 2 championships few years later, how great is Kobe :bowdown:

if Lebron had done the same, he would have easily been able to win in CLE. He already went to the finals, and was a 60+ win twice?? He was basically 1 piece away from a championship team. But he only knows to quit.. not how to adjust.. that's the difference between him and Kobe.

Thanks to gengiskhan for pointing this out to us all:applause:

Biggest applaud he'll get is for r***ing the girl in the colorado hotel from Kobe'tards. :applause:

you do realize that kobe wanted to leave NBA's greatest franchise ever with 14 rings!

compare that to ZERO rings earned by NBA's worse franchise called CAVS.


I forgot. KOBE"TARDS are FULL RETARDS. they dont now the difference btw 14 rings & ZERO rings.

[willds09]

Biggest applaud he'll get is for r***ing the girl in the colorado hotel from Kobe'tards. :applause:

you do realize that kobe wanted to leave NBA's greatest franchise ever with 14 rings!

compare that to ZERO rings earned by NBA's worse franchise called CAVS.


I forgot. KOBE"TARDS are FULL RETARDS. they dont now the difference btw 14 rings & ZERO rings.
:biggums: who said 14?? and kobe didnt rape no girl, she came on to him, duh:rolleyes:

[gengiskhan]

you sound real dumb thinking kobe's rings are given and lebron's arent.

Shaq 3 x DOMINANT BEASTING FMVPs. :facepalm

Kobe has received GIFTs after GIFTS every yr faakit.

[Rooster]

Kobe should really be applauded for his actions. Instead of leaving, he forces management to make better moves. This ends up to 2 championships few years later, how great is Kobe :bowdown:

if Lebron had done the same, he would have easily been able to win in CLE. He already went to the finals, and was a 60+ win twice?? He was basically 1 piece away from a championship team. But he only knows to quit.. not how to adjust.. that's the difference between him and Kobe.

Thanks to gengiskhan for pointing this out to us all:applause:

Great accomplishment comes with great risk.

I guess Lebron took a great risk when he left the Cav

And joined Wade and Bosh.

And Kobe took an easy way out

By letting Buss to let go of Shaq

Hmmm interesting.

[Quizno]

retard.

LAL with management led by Jerry West know Phil & West can get talents like Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest

NBA's dominant big men & best perimeter defense (artest is DPOY[b/]) to LAL & win more.

All this DESPITE kobe's ball hogging, shot jocking "JUST GET THE REBOUND" attitude.

Phil is a fantastic coach. He just ignored kobe.

[B]But still Kobe destroyed Phils FOURTH 3-peat by sabotaging 2008 NBA Finals.

You just didnt see the whole picture.
yeah...and lebron couldn't win with shaq, a 3x FMVP and 1x MVP

you seriously just called lakers ron artest the best perimeter defender in the NBA. you do not watch basketball. plz stop

edit for real why do you guys hate kobe so much? lmao like did he not give you an autograph one time? this ghengis khan dude sounds like a broken hearted ex girlfriend. every time i come to the NBA forum i see her posting the same thing about kobe all angry trying to convince everyone how bad he is. why's he on your mind so much lmao

[ripthekik]

gengiskhan getting fully dissected in this thread :roll:

[NumberSix]

Kobe should really be applauded for his actions. Instead of leaving, he forces management to make better moves. This ends up to 2 championships few years later, how great is Kobe :bowdown:

if Lebron had done the same, he would have easily been able to win in CLE. He already went to the finals, and was a 60+ win twice?? He was basically 1 piece away from a championship team. But he only knows to quit.. not how to adjust.. that's the difference between him and Kobe.

Thanks to gengiskhan for pointing this out to us all:applause:
I actually totally agree with what I bolded.

Truth is though, LeBron, Wade and Bosh we're gonna form a big 3 anywhere. My guess is that Cleveland wasn't willing to shell out the money for it. Everybody thought it was unrealistic, but Miami was willing to cut the check. Cleveland should have put their bid in first..... But remember, it's still Cleveland. You gotta pay MORE than Miami, Chicago or New York, not equal. That's the price of doing business in Cleveland.

[fandarko]

LBJ once 2nd MVP "SWEEP", 2nd Ring with 2nd FMVP will LOCK 10th GOAT spot forever.

Lets face the reality here.

4 mvps, 2 fmvps is just too much for 12-14 spot kobe to handle.

Kobe is more in the company of moses, charles, duncan, malone etc.

Kobe's better than Barkley, Malone and Duncan.

[willds09]

Shaq 3 x DOMINANT BEASTING FMVPs. :facepalm

Kobe has received GIFTs after GIFTS every yr faakit.
kobe helped shaq dummy, lebron receives gifts after gifts every year. get that shit right:no:

[fandarko]

Kobe is ancient history.

His time is over and he failed.
Meanwhile LeBron is on his way to matching Kobes Finals MVPs at age 28, having 4x as many MVPs, and just being a better basketball player overall. The sky is the limit for LeBron, but for Kobe? He is finished.

Kobe has 5 titles, LBJ has one, conquered with a star-studded team.

How is he exactly the better player? On par, yes, better? No way.

You seem to have forgotten how great prime Kobe was. We'll see LBJ at 34.

[TAZORAC]

And Bron will be remembered as being superior than Kobe.

Stop trying to come up with hypothetical scenarios and lame excuses.

Lebron James is better then Michael Jordan though.

[razzredazzre]

If putting 5 rings in your finger is FAILURE than 99% failed. You guys are funny sometimes. Maybe Lebron will be a greater player but that does not change the fact about Kobe.

agree

[razzredazzre]

Yeah good points considering his 5 rings were all because he played on the most stacked team.

He never faced adversity like LeBron in Game 6 vs Boston or even won a single series as an underdog like LeBron and the Heat upsetting the OKC Thunder.

Even when he got drafted by a Charlotte, he bitched his way to LA. When he was mad Shaq was getting the credit for LAs success he cried til he had his own team. When he couldn't win a single series as the man he cried to management and demanded to be traded because he just didn't have the talent to win a single playoff series on his own.

The guy is pathetic and has benefitted from stacked casts more than any other player in NBA History.

Stopped reading at "upsetting" the OKC Thunder...

Honestly during the times when Kobe had a bad supporting cast vs. LeBron's cavs days supporting cast.. if you look up the roster.. you'd know Kobe had worse players around him

Kobe is a proven winner.. LeBron now only won 1 chip in a really good team.... he choked in many playoff games due to his lack of shooting or skill or pressure or whatever it was... LeBron had as much as failing moments as Kobe did imo if not more (and even Jordan wasn't winning jack shiz before the Bulls got Pippen and PJ)

also not to mention people forget how Kobe dominated in some playoff series during the Lakers' 3 peat.. and played truly Jordan-esque.. Shaq wasn't winning shizz without Kobe

LeBron and Kobe are different players both are surely all-time greats but personally I'd much prefer to watch Kobe.. the way he methodically dissects the defense is much more watchable than just LeBron overpowering other players like little kids

[KG215]

I'm not trying to deny Kobe's success, but this version of LeBron is better than any version of Kobe.

[K Xerxes]

I'm not trying to deny Kobe's success, but this version of LeBron is better than any version of Kobe.

Agreed. I thought '12 LeBron was already good enough, but this LeBron is even better.

[Doranku]

OP is insecure af. :roll: What a desperate, unnecessary thread.

[Bandito]

Yeah good points considering his 5 rings were all because he played on the most stacked team.

He never faced adversity like LeBron in Game 6 vs Boston or even won a single series as an underdog like LeBron and the Heat upsetting the OKC Thunder.

Even when he got drafted by a Charlotte, he bitched his way to LA. When he was mad Shaq was getting the credit for LAs success he cried til he had his own team. When he couldn't win a single series as the man he cried to management and demanded to be traded because he just didn't have the talent to win a single playoff series on his own.

The guy is pathetic and has benefitted from stacked casts more than any other player in NBA History.
Adversity Underdog? HAhahahahahahahahahahaha lebron had been on more stacked teams these last three years than Kobe has in the Lakers and he still lost one finals by CHOKING!

[lakeshow1]

Kobe is ancient history.

His time is over and he failed. He couldn't even make it to the playoffs with his hall of fame lineup projected to win 60+ games and the conference. His only hope of remaining relevant in the NBA is to find a superstar to leech off of at this point. I'd like to say he isn't welcome in Miami.

This years failure kicks him out of the top ten all-time for sure.

Meanwhile LeBron is on his way to matching Kobes Finals MVPs at age 28, having 4x as many MVPs, and just being a better basketball player overall. The sky is the limit for LeBron, but for Kobe? He is finished.

You need to get outside more.

[chosen_wun]

This thread is not even neccessary. It was already decided during the 40 point blowout in the 08 finals that he was never going to be as good as Jordan, conversation sparked backed up in 09' but died again after that.

In reality, it was always a fallacy.

[Nashty]

Kobe Bryant .045 705-384 (.647) 56-37 (.602)

Michael Jordan .266 699-355 (.663) 70-106 (.397)

LeBron James .205 501-263 (.655) 18-22 (.450)

Give me the two guys who will get me wins, not the guy who will chuck all day and ruin team chemistry.

Kobe was carried to 5 rings, he was never the MVP of the Lakers, he is just a chucker who has minimal impact on his teams wins and losses, and was lucky to play with dominant bigs in Shaq/Odom/Gasol.

Most overrated player in the history of sports!

[gengiskhan]

Kobe Bryant .045 705-384 (.647) 56-37 (.602)

Michael Jordan .266 699-355 (.663) 70-106 (.397)

LeBron James .205 501-263 (.655) 18-22 (.450)

Give me the two guys who will get me wins, not the guy who will chuck all day, play no defense and ruin team chemistry.

Kobe was carried to 5 rings, he was never the MVP of the Lakers, he is just a chucker who has minimal impact on his teams wins and losses, and was lucky to play with dominant bigs in Shaq/Odom/Gasol.

Most overrated player in the history of sports!

This

also most polarizing player in the history of sports

also most fake artificial player in the history of sports.

That 1 MVP he won for NBA media & critics literally waiting & waiting for LAL to finally get to 60th win mark.

Even they know, if kobe is not gifted that MVP, he'll never ever win because of his chucking attitude & "go get the rebounds" attitude towards all-star team mates.

I call 2008 kobe MVP a consolation MVP.

Like Best Actor Oscar given to 70 yrs old veteran as a Token of Appreciation.

[imdaman99]

if kobe is a big part of 2-3 more rings on the lakers, i will move him up. we all know thats not happening :lol

till than, yes the sky is blue too :hammerhead:

[gengiskhan]

if kobe is a big part of 2-3 more rings on the lakers, i will move him up. we all know thats not happening :lol

till than, yes the sky is blue too :hammerhead:

Thats another fallacy.

Even if Kobe wins 3 more rings with Howard as LAL. That wouldn't move him up at all.

Lakers already have NBA's extinct positions best player in the league in Howard.

There is no competition to him.

Only way Kobe is upping the ladder of Top 15 players is by walking out of LA

going to MEDIOCRE franchise like MEM or DEN or NYK & winning FMVP there.

Kobe has to do what many GOATs havent done including MJ.

win atleast 1 or more rings with 2 different franchises with fmvps.

[uoykcuf]

this guy is all the same person:

ripthekik, willds09, bladers

Worst troll on here, no point in arguing clear facts with her.

[lakeshow1]

Thats another fallacy.

Even if Kobe wins 3 more rings with Howard as LAL. That wouldn't move him up at all.


The hate consumes you. :oldlol:

[JellyBean]

Yet another thread created by insecure Jordan or Lebron fans. :rolleyes:

[Rooster]

Kobe Bryant .045 705-384 (.647) 56-37 (.602)

Michael Jordan .266 699-355 (.663) 70-106 (.397)

LeBron James .205 501-263 (.655) 18-22 (.450)

Give me the two guys who will get me wins, not the guy who will chuck all day and ruin team chemistry.

Kobe was carried to 5 rings, he was never the MVP of the Lakers, he is just a chucker who has minimal impact on his teams wins and losses, and was lucky to play with dominant bigs in Shaq/Odom/Gasol.

Most overrated player in the history of sports!

You just called Odom and Gasol dominant bigs:oldlol:

Wonderful insights.:applause:

[Rooster]

This

also most polarizing player in the history of sports

also most fake artificial player in the history of sports.

That 1 MVP he won for NBA media & critics literally waiting & waiting for LAL to finally get to 60th win mark.

Even they know, if kobe is not gifted that MVP, he'll never ever win because of his chucking attitude & "go get the rebounds" attitude towards all-star team mates.

I call 2008 kobe MVP a consolation MVP.

Like Best Actor Oscar given to 70 yrs old veteran as a Token of Appreciation.

never win.

He got 5 rings

BTW Jerry West never won MVP

That does not make him less of a player

[Rooster]

Thats another fallacy.

Even if Kobe wins 3 more rings with Howard as LAL. That wouldn't move him up at all.

Lakers already have NBA's extinct positions best player in the league in Howard.

There is no competition to him.

Only way Kobe is upping the ladder of Top 15 players is by walking out of LA

going to MEDIOCRE franchise like MEM or DEN or NYK & winning FMVP there.

Kobe has to do what many GOATs havent done including MJ.

win atleast 1 or more rings with 2 different franchises with fmvps.

So let me guess

You hate Kobe because you love Shaq

And you believe Kobe kick him out of Los Angeles

BTW Kareem fits your GOAT criteria

[tomtucker]

kobe stayed with one team.........and never made a fool of himself by starting to play baseball, never will sink so low to be GM of the fukking bobcats........dresses better then MJ.........has more love and passion for the game then MJ ever had..................okay, so he raped a bitch, still : kobe >> MJ.......:rockon:

[Nashty]

You just called Odom and Gasol dominant bigs:oldlol:

Wonderful insights.:applause:

Explain me please why are they played worse without Odom or Gasol then Kobe?

[WayOfWade]

kobe stayed with one team.........and never made a fool of himself by starting to play baseball, never will sink so low to be GM of the fukking bobcats........dresses better then MJ.........has more love and passion for the game then MJ ever had..................okay, so he raped a bitch, still : kobe >> MJ.......:rockon:
You're logic is undeniable

[Rooster]

Explain me please why are they played worse without Odom or Gasol then Kobe?

Explain why you call them dominant?:oldlol:

Please enlighten me.:oldlol:

[Nashty]

Explain why you call them dominant?:oldlol:

Please enlighten me.:oldlol:

Odom because he carried Kobe in the middle 3 years, and Gasol because he carried Kobe from 07-08 to now :pimp:

[branslowski]

Yet another thread created by insecure Jordan or Lebron fans. :rolleyes:

This. These same n!ggas been at this shit for damn near a decade, go get some pusse and hop off MJs dic

[branslowski]

Odom because he carried Kobe in the middle 3 years, and Gasol because he carried Kobe from 07-08 to now :pimp:

Is this why ppl have sockaccounts? So they won't be held responsible for retarded comments, like this?

[Nashty]

Is this why ppl have sockaccounts? So they won't be held responsible for retarded comments, like this?

Can you please explain me why were the Lakers in the middle 3 years played worse without Odom then without Kobe?

Can you please explain me why were the Lakers played worse without Gasol then without Kobe from 07-08 till now?

[ripthekik]

Can you please explain me why were the Lakers in the middle 3 years played worse without Odom then without Kobe?

Can you please explain me why were the Lakers played worse without Gasol then without Kobe from 07-08 till now?
How did Gasol do this year in the playoffs without Kobe?:oldlol:

[ThaRegul8r]

For those who also think so, this is preaching to the choir, and the people who do believe Kobe's better will never be convinced otherwise, so this thread is pointless either way.

[gengiskhan]

How did Gasol do this year in the playoffs without Kobe?:oldlol:

Kobe's ability to destroy Gasol the whole regular season carried into the post season!

23FGA to get to 27 ppg. :lol :roll:

Gasol & Howard both were playing Kobe-ball 82 games.

All of a sudden this choker deliberately tears his achilles to not get swept 3 yrs in a row.

[gengiskhan]

The hate consumes you. :oldlol:

You cannot play for NBA's best franchise & hide behind dominant big men your whole career.

If kobe is man enough, he has to win wihtout Howard with PERIMETER heavy line up

just like MJ did it.

Just like LBJ is doing it.

Or else, kobe's legacy aint advancing. He is stuck at 12th position forever.

1 consolation MVP in 17 seasons is PATHETIC.

Magic playing with dominant front court has 3 MVPs.

[Rooster]

Kobe's ability to destroy Gasol the whole regular season carried into the post season!

23FGA to get to 27 ppg. :lol :roll:

Gasol & Howard both were playing Kobe-ball 82 games.

All of a sudden this choker deliberately tears his achilles to not get swept 3 yrs in a row.

Deliberately tore his Achilles.:facepalm

Another refreshing thoughts.:oldlol:

First Odom and Gasol were dominant.

I get the sense that you guys need lobotomy.:oldlol:

[Vienceslav]

Genghis you are making a great mistake here, nobody is arguing Kobe>Jordan.
You are propping Lebron so people think he is better than Kobe, eventually people will put Lebron in the discussion with Jordan and then what?
You have to think ahead here I think.
You have it all wrong you should be shitting on Lebron and saying that he is no Kobe so you can then argue Jordan >>>> Lebron which is coming.

[Nashty]

How did Gasol do this year in the playoffs without Kobe?:oldlol:

Is that the best you can think of?

The last two games their's starting backourt was Morris and Goudelock, and first two they had one legged Nash, and in the other 2 he didn't even play.

You really think that this 4 games (which Lakers would lose with Kobe or without him) beats years and years, and games and games of Lakers playing worse without Gasol than without Kobe?

I'm still waiting for your answer Rooster.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Why do people forget Kobe sucked in his first couple of years while LeBron and Jordan were already dominating.
Kobe is one of the few superstars ever to suck and not start their first years.

[gengiskhan]

Deliberately tore his Achilles.:facepalm

Another refreshing thoughts.:oldlol:

First Odom and Gasol were dominant.

I get the sense that you guys need lobotomy.:oldlol:

How do you deliberately tear achilles.

at age 34, lacking trust in teammates DECEPTIVELY so that you build the case for your 23 FGA & "this is my team" crapp.

Playing every min of 48 mins PLUS overtime mins to make sure HERO-BALL is not abandoned & Big Men not getting enough TOUCHES.

showing off you need to be there all 48 mins & bullying your own coach from benching so that LAL make the post-season.

Yes. Kobe Knew what injury was coming.

This pretentious mentality of GOING DOWN AS A HERO in regular season fighting for his team when you're given Howard-Gasol-Nash-Artest. :facepalm

It was done to destroy a team's chemistry.

Only Lakers'stans, kobe'stans cant see that.

[gengiskhan]

Why do people forget Kobe sucked in his first couple of years while LeBron and Jordan were already dominating.
Kobe is one of the few superstars ever to suck and not start their first years.

Jordan was DOMINATING form Game 2 of his pro career.

You dont shoot 51.5%FG as a rookie & score 28+ppg/6.5/6 playing all 82 games of rookie yr & NOT dominate!

Rookie MJ was >> than any season of prime peak kobe.

ANY!

including that PATHETIC 45%FG shooting 35 ppg season that destroyed the whole team.

[Vienceslav]

combo breaker.

[TonyMontana]

Since the Kobetards keep ignoring this guys comments.


"Can you please explain me why were the Lakers in the middle 3 years played worse without Odom then without Kobe?"

The Numbers support the facts, your cockroach opinion is not a fact, but an opinion. Numbers are facts.

:rockon:


Stopped reading at "upsetting" the OKC Thunder...


http://oi40.tinypic.com/330ffiv.jpg

11/18 pick OKC to win. OKC was the favorite per Vegas as well.



2012 NBA Finals: Thunder favored by Vegas oddsmakers

The Oklahoma City Thunder opened at 10/17 favorites to win the NBA title Monday (money line -170), according to Bovada.lv. Pretty narrow there, with the Heat at 3/2 odds,. The Thunder are also five-point favorites at home Tuesday night in Game of the 2012 NBA Finals.

It's become an interesting storyline since the Heat won the Eastern Conference Championship Saturday night as the Heat find themselves underdogs to a team with three stars who have never one played in an NBA Finals game, and only a handful of supporting role players with Finals experience (though to be fair Derek Fisher has enough for everyone).

Also of note, LeBron James' over/under on points per game in this series is set at 29.5 points per game, with Kevin Durant's at 28.5, right behind him. Durant is favored to win the Finals MVP award at 1/1 odds with James behind him at 2/1. Serge Ibaka is at 20/1 if you feel like setting fire to some cash.

It'll be interesting to see how the Heat perform as underdogs, the superteam behind the young guns in the oddsmakers' eyes.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19332621/nba-finals-thunder-favored-by-vegas-oddsmakers


If you have no experience on the betting game, please shut the **** up kid. The Thunder were heavy favorites. Meanwhile on the other hand the only series Kobe Bryant has ever won in his career was when he had the stacked team and was the favorite. He has never won a series Vegas picked him to lose. This guy doesn't elevate teams, but merely cruises along for the ride on the stacked cast. This is a reason he isn't on par with players like LeBron James in terms of all-time greats.

[chosen_wun]

This dude came in and murdered Kobesexuals with pure facts and numbers.

Colby fans always argue with anecdote evidence and campfire stories but can never use real facts :lol

[hawke812]

Any player who did not play in Jordan's watered down era of bball is already better than MJ.

Jordan wasn't even the best player on his team. With Jordan before the GOAT Pippen-all first round exits.

GOAT Pippen without Overrated MJ-Eastern Conference Finals.

I witnessed it all. You can't fool me.

[gengiskhan]

This dude came in and murdered Kobesexuals with pure facts and numbers.

Colby fans always argue with anecdote evidence and campfire stories but can never use real facts :lol

Its so easy to DESTROY & DISMANTLE kobe's EXCESSIVELY INFLATED BLOATED legacy.

I've mentioned this thousand times, Kobe wont make most post-seasons of his career with 45%FG shooting with the amount of CHUCKING he does.

Impossible to get that 8th seed when you are going into 81st & 82nd MUST WIN reg season game if you play for AVERAGE NON-ELITE franchises.

If Kobe wasn't traded to NBA's best franchise from Hornet on draft day, he'll struggle to be in top 30 players ever.

His legacy is GIFTED to him because of EXCELLENCE of Elite franchise like LAL.

I can see Shaq-vince, Shaq-AI, Shaq-T'mac combos all winning 4 rings btw 2000-2004.

[Rooster]

Since the Kobetards keep ignoring this guys comments.


"Can you please explain me why were the Lakers in the middle 3 years played worse without Odom then without Kobe?"

The Numbers support the facts, your cockroach opinion is not a fact, but an opinion. Numbers are facts.

:rockon:



http://oi40.tinypic.com/330ffiv.jpg

11/18 pick OKC to win. OKC was the favorite per Vegas as well.



http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19332621/nba-finals-thunder-favored-by-vegas-oddsmakers


If you have no experience on the betting game, please shut the **** up kid. The Thunder were heavy favorites. Meanwhile on the other hand the only series Kobe Bryant has ever won in his career was when he had the stacked team and was the favorite. He has never won a series Vegas picked him to lose. This guy doesn't elevate teams, but merely cruises along for the ride on the stacked cast. This is a reason he isn't on par with players like LeBron James in terms of all-time greats.

So using your logic

Bulls have worse record when

Jordan played without Pippen

Then Pippen carried Jordan

Facts is facts

[PrettyCool]

I actually totally agree with what I bolded.

Truth is though, LeBron, Wade and Bosh we're gonna form a big 3 anywhere. My guess is that Cleveland wasn't willing to shell out the money for it. Everybody thought it was unrealistic, but Miami was willing to cut the check. Cleveland should have put their bid in first..... But remember, it's still Cleveland. You gotta pay MORE than Miami, Chicago or New York, not equal. That's the price of doing business in Cleveland.


I somewhat agree with this. 30 years from now when one of them is irrelevant and trying to hype a book up their going to say that they made some sort of pact in the Olympics or something. I don't think it was really set in stone though.

With regards to Cleveland being cheap, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Cleveland under Dan Gilbert has cut no costs, and routinely fleeced cheap owners. The next year they took Baron Davis's albatross of a contract for a top ten pick (which turned out to be Kyrie Irving). Gilberts willingness to spend wasn't even a product of having Lebron.

[Unbiased_one]

more all star mvps than lebron..

Seriously?

[PrettyCool]

Its so easy to DESTROY & DISMANTLE kobe's EXCESSIVELY INFLATED BLOATED legacy.

I've mentioned this thousand times, Kobe wont make most post-seasons of his career with 45%FG shooting with the amount of CHUCKING he does.

Impossible to get that 8th seed when you are going into 81st & 82nd MUST WIN reg season game if you play for AVERAGE NON-ELITE franchises.

If Kobe wasn't traded to NBA's best franchise from Hornet on draft day, he'll struggle to be in top 30 players ever.

His legacy is GIFTED to him because of EXCELLENCE of Elite franchise like LAL.

I can see Shaq-vince, Shaq-AI, Shaq-T'mac combos all winning 4 rings btw 2000-2004.

Kobe 5 rings.

u mad?

[TonyMontana]

So using your logic

Bulls have worse record when

Jordan played without Pippen

Then Pippen carried Jordan

Facts is facts

Do you have a mental condition? How about you answer the question instead of trying to go off-topic with your obvious butthurt.

"Can you please explain me why were the Lakers in the middle 3 years played worse without Odom then without Kobe?"

[Nashty]

So using your logic

Bulls have worse record when

Jordan played without Pippen

Then Pippen carried Jordan

Facts is facts

You can't compare Jordan early years when he was playing with role players, and Pippen years when he was playing with Jordan, you have to compare seasons when they played together. I will do that later, and will come back with the results.

[gengiskhan]

Do you have a mental condition? How about you answer the question instead of trying to go off-topic with your obvious butthurt.

"Can you please explain me why were the Lakers in the middle 3 years played worse without Odom then without Kobe?"

These kobe'tards are the worlds pathetic scum.

they'll never answer single question

NEVER!

they run around the bushes to a point where they believe LOCKED Top 10 GOAT
shaq never existed

& it was all kobe who won those 5 rings

& he never costed lakers any rings.

& he was robbed of other 3 fmvps.

& he was robbed of season mvps.

personally, I cannot wait for this faakit to retire for good. as the revisionist will destroy his ranking

its bound to happen sooner than later.

[Rooster]

Do you have a mental condition? How about you answer the question instead of trying to go off-topic with your obvious butthurt.

"Can you please explain me why were the Lakers in the middle 3 years played worse without Odom then without Kobe?"

What's your point?

The GOAT has a worse record without Pippen

While Kobe has worse record without Odom.

Around here they call Odom DOMINANT

The Pippen must be GOD.

[Rooster]

You can't compare Jordan early years when he was playing with role players, and Pippen years when he was playing with Jordan, you have to compare seasons when they played together. I will do that later, and will come back with the results.

You're trying to make sense

But Odom was NEVER a dominant player.

[DatAsh]

What's your point?

The GOAT has a worse record without Pippen

While Kobe has worse record without Odom.

Around here they call Odom DOMINANT

The Pippen must be GOD.

I haven't kept up with this thread at all, but I don't really follow this logic. Pippen was an amazing player, on both ends of the floor. Why would Jordan NOT be better off with him than without him?

[BBallZen83]

Who ever said Kobe was better than Jordan? Besides slobbering Kobetards? MJ is the Shakespeare of basketball. All the factors aligned at the right time for him, combined with his career achievements and overall dominance of a decade of basketball.

[Nashty]

I didn't include first 2 Pippens season because he wasn't a starter so this is from 89-90 to 97-98.

Bulls record without Pippen: 37-20 (.649)
Bulls record with Pippen: 508-173 (.746)

Bulls record without Jordan: 35-36 (.493)
Bulls record with Jordan: 455-130 (.778)

Pippens record without Jordan: 86-55 (.610)
Jordans record without Pippen: 33-12 (.733)

It's pretty obvious that Jordan is the MVP of the Bulls.

And read this once again, I see you don't understand.

Lakers record from 04-05 to 06-07

With Kobe: 112-111 (.502)
Without Kobe: 9-14 (.391)

With Odom: 106-94 (.530)
Without Odom: 15-31 (.326)

You understand now? Lakers had worse record when Odom was out then when Kobe was out. So, the conclusion is that Odom was the MVP in those 3 years.

Odom was averaging 15-10-5 on .475 shooting, it's not Shaq-dominant but it's pretty damn good, good enough to miss him more than Kobe.

[funnystuff]

To be honest, for a guy who was hyped up to be the next MJ, one consolation MVP in 17 years is pretty pathetic.


Plus rings have less value on you if you aren't the FMVP. Can't argue that.

[Ne 1]

Maybe if Jordan worked more on his 3-point shot, off hand, handles, foot work, post game, shooting form, ball handling, left hand, mid range game and help defense he could have been as good as Kobe.


trolling Jordan stans/Kobe haters

[Ne 1]

To be honest, for a guy who was hyped up to be the next MJ, one consolation MVP in 17 years is pretty pathetic.


13 years of elite play > media-driven awards



Plus rings have less value on you if you aren't the FMVP. Can't argue that.



So you think Duncan, Bird, and Magic's rings all have qualifiers on them?

[funnystuff]

13 years of elite play > media-driven awards




So you think Duncan, Bird, and Magic's rings all have qualifiers on them?
You're exaggerating by like 11 years.

[PrettyCool]

The fact that Kobe is even being compared to Jordan means he's top 5.

Jordan >>> Kobe >>>>> Lebron

[NumberSix]

13 years of elite play > media-driven awards




So you think Duncan, Bird, and Magic's rings all have qualifiers on them?
Well, there's a difference between being a major factor on a championship team and just being a guy that was lucky enough to be on the team. Like, Nobody gives a shit about Ronny Turiaf's ring.

This argument really stems from Kobe's 2000 ring. He was less important than 2012 Mario Chalmers in that finals. Is it fair? Not really. Jalen Rose intentionally took him out of that series. It is what it is. He still has 4 that NOBODY can argue with. He without question was a major factor for those.

[SwayDizzle]

The fact that Kobe is even being compared to Jordan means he's top 5.

Jordan >>> Kobe >>>>> Lebron
this :cheers:

[Ne 1]

You're exaggerating by like 11 years.

So you honestly believe Kobe only had 2 years of elite play?

[Ne 1]

This argument really stems from Kobe's 2000 ring. He was less important than 2012 Mario Chalmers in that finals.


lol, no. Chalmers' role for Miami is to make wide open threes and play solid defense. Kobe was the Lakers facilitator/playmaker, defensive stopper, 2nd scoring option, and the go to guy in the clutch. He had to set up the offense, advance the ball, read the defense and consistently make big plays at critical times and also usually defend the other teams' best swingman. Now I don't think his '00 rings is a meaningful as his other 4, but saying he was as important as Mario freaking Chalmers is ridiculous. If anything his 2000 championship is more similar to Pippen's on the 3-peat Bulls teams, 2012 Wade or 1995 Drexler.

[TonyMontana]

I didn't include first 2 Pippens season because he wasn't a starter so this is from 89-90 to 97-98.

Bulls record without Pippen: 37-20 (.649)
Bulls record with Pippen: 508-173 (.746)

Bulls record without Jordan: 35-36 (.493)
Bulls record with Jordan: 455-130 (.778)

Pippens record without Jordan: 86-55 (.610)
Jordans record without Pippen: 33-12 (.733)

It's pretty obvious that Jordan is the MVP of the Bulls.

And read this once again, I see you don't understand.

Lakers record from 04-05 to 06-07

With Kobe: 112-111 (.502)
Without Kobe: 9-14 (.391)

With Odom: 106-94 (.530)
Without Odom: 15-31 (.326)

You understand now? Lakers had worse record when Odom was out then when Kobe was out. So, the conclusion is that Odom was the MVP in those 3 years.

Odom was averaging 15-10-5 on .475 shooting, it's not Shaq-dominant but it's pretty damn good, good enough to miss him more than Kobe.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Do you have a website where you have articles on wins with/without? I've seen you posts links to it before and looks like some good stuff.


What's your point?

The GOAT has a worse record without Pippen

While Kobe has worse record without Odom.

Around here they call Odom DOMINANT

The Pippen must be GOD.

And the question is dodged yet again! If your not going to respond dont bother showing your face in the thread again.

"Can you please explain me why were the Lakers in the middle 3 years played worse without Odom then without Kobe?"

[dh144498]

TonyMontana, Nashty, and funnystuff in here going full retard.
:roll: :lol :lol :oldlol: :oldlol:

all probably the same person.

[funnystuff]

So you honestly believe Kobe only had 2 years of elite play?
Why not? You stans believe Lebron only won because of his stacked team.

This statement is on the same level as that.

[NumberSix]

lol, no. Chalmers' role for Miami is to make wide open threes and play solid defense. Kobe was the Lakers facilitator/playmaker, defensive stopper, 2nd scoring option, and the go to guy in the clutch. He had to set up the offense, advance the ball, read the defense and consistently make big plays at critical times and also defends the other teams' best swingman during crunchtime. Now I don't think his '00 rings is a meaningful as his other 4, but saying he was as important as Mario freaking Chalmers is ridiculous. If anything his 2000 championship is more similar to Pippen's on the 3-peat Bulls teams, 2012 Wade or 1995 Drexler.
Don't be ridiculous. Do you not remember Mario Chalmers closed out one of those finals games last season?

Kobe averaged 15.6, 4.2 & 4.3 on 41%. He was a role player that series. He was nowhere near being 2012 Wade.

[Rooster]

I didn't include first 2 Pippens season because he wasn't a starter so this is from 89-90 to 97-98.

Bulls record without Pippen: 37-20 (.649)
Bulls record with Pippen: 508-173 (.746)

Bulls record without Jordan: 35-36 (.493)
Bulls record with Jordan: 455-130 (.778)

Pippens record without Jordan: 86-55 (.610)
Jordans record without Pippen: 33-12 (.733)

It's pretty obvious that Jordan is the MVP of the Bulls.

And read this once again, I see you don't understand.

Lakers record from 04-05 to 06-07

With Kobe: 112-111 (.502)
Without Kobe: 9-14 (.391)

With Odom: 106-94 (.530)
Without Odom: 15-31 (.326)

You understand now? Lakers had worse record when Odom was out then when Kobe was out. So, the conclusion is that Odom was the MVP in those 3 years.

Odom was averaging 15-10-5 on .475 shooting, it's not Shaq-dominant but it's pretty damn good, good enough to miss him more than Kobe.

You gave excuses for few season Jordan played with role players

While Kobe should not be excuse for playing with Smush and Kwe

Lets just assume your numbers are accurate

Odom was never a DOMINANT player

[Nashty]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Do you have a website where you have articles on wins with/without? I've seen you posts links to it before and looks like some good stuff.



And the question is dodged yet again! If your not going to respond dont bother showing your face in the thread again.

"Can you please explain me why were the Lakers in the middle 3 years played worse without Odom then without Kobe?"

Those articles were not mine, I read it on some blog (http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2011/10/6/its-all-about-the-ws-steve-nash.html), but it has just a few players, so I decided to make some other players on my own.

They won't answer the question because they can't deny the fact that Kobe never had much impact, and that he was carried to his 5 rings and never was the MVP of the Lakers :cheers:

[Rooster]

Don't be ridiculous. Do you not remember Mario Chalmers closed out one of those finals games last season?

Kobe averaged 15.6, 4.2 & 4.3 on 41%. He was a role player that series. He was nowhere near being 2012 Wade.

You neglect to mention he was playing injured in the series.

So you can justify him as a role player

[Nashty]

You gave excuses for few season Jordan played with role players

While Kobe should not be excuse for playing with Smush and Kwe

Lets just assume your numbers are accurate

Odom was never a DOMINANT player

I didn't say he is bad because that team couldn't win a championship or something like that, I was just saying that he wasn't the MVP of that team.

They accurate, believe me, why would I lie?

He never had the individual quality that Kobe has, but he got his team more wins, and the team played much worse without him and that's all that matters. Basketball is a team sport, you play to win games, not for your individual stats.

[NumberSix]

You neglect to mention he was playing injured in the series.

So you can justify him as a role player
Oh, really?

This argument really stems from Kobe's 2000 ring. He was less important than 2012 Mario Chalmers in that finals. Is it fair? Not really. Jalen Rose intentionally took him out of that series. It is what it is. He still has 4 that NOBODY can argue with. He without question was a major factor for those.
Read better.

[Rooster]

Those articles were not mine, I read it on some blog (http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2011/10/6/its-all-about-the-ws-steve-nash.html), but it has just a few players, so I decided to make some other players on my own.

They won't answer the question because they can't deny the fact that Kobe never had much impact, and that he was carried to his 5 rings and never was the MVP of the Lakers :cheers:

Never had much impact

Can you check Kobe's numbers

Against the Spurs

Their biggest rival last decade

[pauk]

Mj of course.

As for lebron.. he is the big asterisk that ran with his tails behind him to join another top 3 player with another top 5 pf. Why is his name in the conversation again? :oldlol:

So you wanted him to stay with scrubs for his entire career and end up ringless instead?

Stupid question for a Kobetard anyways, ofcourse you would want that....

This "asterisk" assumption thing is hilarious coming from a Kobe fan though, you know why? Because Kobe was very close to do the same (Jordan aswell), at least Lebron tried to win it with scrubs for 7 years.... never complained or demanded a trade or something.... Kobe couldnt last a year without immediately starting to complain, whine about his teammates and publicly DEMANDED TO BE TRADED (during his post-shaq and pre-gasol days), hell even today he is complaining about his teammates and probably keeping his options open.......... and he got what he wanted (so did Jordan), he got his supporting casts handed to him on a silverplate 24-7, however Lebron didnt, never.... he had to eventually get it himself... and lets be honest, the only reason you are "mad" about this is because you never wanted Lebron to FINALLY have a supporting cast............. because you know what that means when a player who is a better player than Kobe ever was gets a supporting cast.... you knew Lebron would surpass Kobe in everything, at least you wanted that 5 rings argument..... lol.... sorry fella... you will have to dig up more "asterisks" to place on the big pile of FMVPs Lebron will have....

[SamuraiSWISH]

None of these hyped guys are as great as Mike was ...

LeBron / Kobe / Wade / Durant, they all pale in comparison.

[PickernRoller]

IQs must be checked before giving username & password on ISH.

You wouldn't be posting now would you?

So many Letisk fans... soooo many.....

[NumberSix]

None of these hyped guys are as great as Mike was ...

LeBron / Kobe / Wade / Durant, they all pale in comparison.
And Mike ain't great as Wilt was.

[gengiskhan]

None of these hyped guys are as great as Mike was ...

LeBron / Kobe / Wade / Durant, they all pale in comparison.

This is what GOAT said about Kobe

"as far as the guards are concern, he is up there in Top 10"

MJ believed Kobe is in TOP 10 when you count greatest PGs/SGs to ever play.

It dont mean He is Top 10 GOAT.

This is a reality to Kobe'tards.

At some point they have to understand 45%FG pales in comparison

Blowing 24 pts lead at halftime AT HOME in a must win game to win ring pales in comparison.

1 consolation MVP pales in comparison.

Shaq winning 3 FMVPs over Kobe with SHEER DOMINANCE pales kobe in comparison.

Truth is bitter but still its truth.

[Quizno]

oh look, ghengis khan is spending his whole day posting about kobe again. he's been at it since the morning :roll:

[NumberSix]

This is what GOAT said about Kobe

"as far as the guards are concern, he is up there in Top 10"

MJ believed Kobe is in TOP 10 when you count greatest PGs/SGs to ever play.

It dont mean He is Top 10 GOAT.

This is a reality to Kobe'tards.

At some point they have to understand 45%FG pales in comparison

Blowing 24 pts lead at halftime AT HOME in a must win game to win ring pales in comparison.

1 consolation MVP pales in comparison.

Shaq winning 3 FMVPs over Kobe with SHEER DOMINANCE pales kobe in comparison.

Truth is bitter but still its truth.
To be fair, the whole myth of Jordan being drastically more efficient than Kobe is very exaggerated.

Jordan career eFG%: 50.9%
Kobe Career eFG%: 48.7%

It's not some kind of landslide or something.

[pauk]

None of these hyped guys are as great as Mike was ...

LeBron / Kobe / Wade / Durant, they all pale in comparison.

Kobe / Wade / Durant.... you are right...

However, Lebron.... hehe.... dont be insecure now my man... different type of players, but Lebron is up there individually as a player.... the least you can say is that he is easily the greatest/most dominant perimeter player since Jordan...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe / Wade / Durant.... you are right...

However, Lebron.... hehe.... dont be insecure now my man...

:confusedshrug:

Lebron isn't either. We need to see more.

[SamuraiSWISH]

And Mike ain't great as Wilt was.
You're right ... he was better. He won, and elevated his play in the post season.

He won 6 with the meager chips (Pippen) he was dealt.

[Nashty]

Never had much impact

Can you check Kobe's numbers

Against the Spurs

Their biggest rival last decade

Don't have to. I looked at the most important numbers, team record with him, and the team record without him, and he didn't make much of an impact...

[dh144498]

This is what GOAT said about Kobe

"as far as the guards are concern, he is up there in Top 10"

MJ believed Kobe is in TOP 10 when you count greatest PGs/SGs to ever play.

It dont mean He is Top 10 GOAT.

This is a reality to Kobe'tards.

At some point they have to understand 45%FG pales in comparison

Blowing 24 pts lead at halftime AT HOME in a must win game to win ring pales in comparison.

1 consolation MVP pales in comparison.

Shaq winning 3 FMVPs over Kobe with SHEER DOMINANCE pales kobe in comparison.

Truth is bitter but still its truth.

that was like 10 years ago you idiot.

[Vertical-24]

Well, there's a difference between being a major factor on a championship team and just being a guy that was lucky enough to be on the team. Like, Nobody gives a shit about Ronny Turiaf's ring.

This argument really stems from Kobe's 2000 ring. He was less important than 2012 Mario Chalmers in that finals. Is it fair? Not really. Jalen Rose intentionally took him out of that series. It is what it is. He still has 4 that NOBODY can argue with. He without question was a major factor for those.

I agree with most of what you said. But Kobe being less important than Chalmers? I'll admit...I laughed. :oldlol:

Kobe's 2000 ring can be considered his "least" valuable ring by your standard, but Kobe was not just some position filler. Game 4 was a testament to how fundamental he was and could be during that run.

And Kobe will never be as great as MJ. Any realistic, rational basketball fan would co-sign that. But I also hate when he gets underrated or purposely belittled by disgruntled box-score nerds.

LeBron might go down as the greater player. I have no problem with that. What I don't understand is why we as basketball fans can't just appreciate all three players (Kobe, LeBron, Michael) for their individual greatness.

[dh144498]

Kobe / Wade / Durant.... you are right...

However, Lebron.... hehe.... dont be insecure now my man... different type of players, but Lebron is up there individually as a player.... the least you can say is that he is easily the greatest/most dominant perimeter player since Jordan...

since Kobe is actually the right answer.

[NumberSix]

You're right ... he was better. He won, and elevated his play in the post season.

He won 6 with the meager chips (Pippen) he was dealt.
Jordan would have won 0 titles, 0 scoring titles, 0 MVPs in Wilt's era......

Unless he was lucky enough to play Bill Russell's Celtics.

[gengiskhan]

To be fair, the whole myth of Jordan being drastically more efficient than Kobe is very exaggerated.

Jordan career eFG%: 50.9%
Kobe Career eFG%: 48.7%

It's not some kind of landslide or something.

listen up bruh.

The amount of open jumpshots kobe took in his first 7 yrs when Shaq was triple teamed.

If MJ ever took that many open jumpers behind DOUBLE TEAMED shaq. His FG% will be 54%+.

& I am estimating this from 21 yrs old rookie MJ constantly double teamed shot 51.5%FG.


If Kobe played all his 17 yrs DOUBLE, TRIPLE TEAMED with NO SHAQ, His real FG% will be 42%FG same as 6'0" kobe called Iverson

reality check!

despite all the help from shaq, kobe for career shot 45%FG

despite NO help & as primary scoring optioned DOUBLE TEAMED for whole career, MJ still shot 50%FG


Yes. There is a HUGE difference btw MJ & Kobe.

[baller562]

listen up bruh.

The amount of open jumpshots kobe took in his first 7 yrs when Shaq was triple teamed.

If MJ ever took that many open jumpers behind DOUBLE TEAMED shaq. His FG% will be 54%+.

& I am estimating this from 21 yrs old rookie MJ constantly double teamed shot 51.5%FG.


If Kobe played all his 17 yrs DOUBLE, TRIPLE TEAMED with NO SHAQ, His real FG% will be 42%FG same as 6'0" kobe called Iverson

reality check!

despite all the help from shaq, kobe for career shot 45%FG

despite NO help & as primary scoring optioned DOUBLE TEAMED for whole career, MJ still shot 50%FG


Yes. There is a HUGE difference btw MJ & Kobe.


Listen up brah... stop using the shaq excuse for Kobe's FG%. His FG% is actually higher playing without shaq than with. Did you ever consider Kobe's low FG% in his early years was due to him coming out of high school.. a raw talent? How do you explain Kobe maintaining the same FG% after Shaq leaving? No one is questioning that MJ was way better... NO SH$T sherlock

[gengiskhan]

Listen up brah... stop using the shaq excuse for Kobe's FG%. His FG% is actually higher playing without shaq than with. Did you ever consider Kobe's low FG% in his early years was due to him coming out of high school.. a raw talent? How do you explain Kobe maintaining the same FG% after Shaq leaving? No one is questioning that MJ was way better... NO SH$T sherlock

so you are refusing to take Kobe's IMMATURE wild shots btw ages 18-25 when he played with Shaq such as 3 STRAIGHT AIR BALLS.

You will only count Kobe's Peak Prime yrs btw 26-32 & show how wonderful his FG% is which is well below 48%.

& you think, without shaq IMMATURE, rookie & trigger happy 30 foot jumpshoots of Kobe as PRIMARY SCORING OPTION btw 18-25 will miraculously fall & get to 50%FG over constant double teams.

You may need psychiatric help.

[baller562]

so you are refusing to take Kobe's IMMATURE wild shots btw ages 18-25 when he played with Shaq such as 3 STRAIGHT AIR BALLS.

You will only count Kobe's Peak Prime yrs btw 26-32 & show how wonderful his FG% is which is well below 48%.

& you think, without shaq IMMATURE, rookie & trigger happy 30 foot jumpshoots of Kobe as PRIMARY SCORING OPTION btw 18-25 will miraculously fall & get to 50%FG over constant double teams.

You may need psychiatric help.

You make no sense... I just refuted your point about without Shaq, kobe averaging 42% FG his whole career. I'm sure he would have adjusted accordingly and would of caught on much quicker on how to play as the first option. The hit on his eff. would not have been as great as you are SPECULATING. All you do is speculate... their is no basis for your claims and you are a fool. There are plenty of seasons that show Kobe w/o Shaq having the same efficiency as he did while playing with him... those are FACTS

[Heavincent]

lol, gengiskhan has been posting about Kobe since 2:40 AM :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe's got this dude wide awake at the wee hours of the morning :lol

[Doctor Rivers]

Khaaaaaaaan

[Doctor Rivers]

lol, gengiskhan has been posting about Kobe since 2:40 AM :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe's got this dude wide awake at the wee hours of the morning :lol

Gengiskhan will never rest until Kobe is defeated!

[francesco totti]

Jordan is greatest of all time

kobe is closest thing we have seen to jordan tho, and he is the best jordan "immitator" i think..

but as a player, i think lebron is best we have seen since jordan.

[dajadeed]

Kobe will never be better than MJ.

Ok. So? How is that a slight to Kobe? :oldlol:

MJ is widely considered to be the GOAT.

It's like walking up to a very pretty girl and saying to her "bitch you ain't Halle Berry!"

But carry on with the stupidity.

Fwiw, when people say Kobe needs 1 more to catch Michael I think it's obvious they are only talking about rings. That's all. I can guarantee you no sane person will mean Kobe is equal to Michael in every way. Kobe's stated goal as a kid out of high school was to win as many rings as possible. For someone to be a 5 with a shot, no matter how long or far fetched, at six is pretty remarkable.

[NumberSix]

Jordan is greatest of all time

kobe is closest thing we have seen to jordan tho, and he is the best jordan "immitator" i think..

but as a player, i think lebron is best we have seen since jordan.
Jordan is the greatest of his own era.

[clutchinho]

I think that, in Jordans era without the sophisticated defensive systems of today, that Kobe could have averaged 40 ppg on close to 50% damn near every year

Jordan is slightly ahead because he never lost a finals in his prime, but I think even Jordan himself would have wanted no part of Kobe prime vs prime.

Nobody could match his legendary will to win other than Kobe, but Kobe has a more refined skillset and once Kobe sniffs blood it over. In that matchup, you prey for the bear.

[NumberSix]

I think that, in Jordans era without the sophisticated defensive systems of today, that Kobe could have averaged 40 ppg on close to 50% damn near every year

Jordan is slightly ahead because he never lost a finals in his prime, but I think even Jordan himself would have wanted no part of Kobe prime vs prime.

Nobody could match his legendary will to win other than Kobe, but Kobe has a more refined skillset and once Kobe sniffs blood it over. In that matchup, you prey for the bear.
This niqqa sippin' on sumfin

[HoopsFanNumero1]

I think that, in Jordans era without the sophisticated defensive systems of today, that Kobe could have averaged 40 ppg on close to 50% damn near every year

Jordan is slightly ahead because he never lost a finals in his prime, but I think even Jordan himself would have wanted no part of Kobe prime vs prime.

Nobody could match his legendary will to win other than Kobe, but Kobe has a more refined skillset and once Kobe sniffs blood it over. In that matchup, you prey for the bear.
:facepalm

[Bandito]

Gengiskhan will never rest until Kobe is defeated!I wonder what he will do when Kobe retires next year...or what he will do when Kobe doesn't start the season...
possible suicide watch?

[lakeshow1]

If kobe is man enough, he has to win wihtout Howard with PERIMETER heavy line up

just like MJ did it.

Just like LBJ is doing it.


Says who? This is incredibly inane. Who cares if you win with a dominant big or a dominant second guard? This is completely arbitrary. It's like me saying Lebron isn't great until he wins with a good big man. Or only with the team he started with (like Kobe or Jordan). Or in a uniform that is pink with one shoe.

Seriously, you guys who spend all of your time on this forum trying to discredit players are sad. Just enjoy the game and all of its players.