Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

[gengiskhan]

Now that this forum is running rampant with rabid ISH'ers

Here is a must watch 1996 FMVP highlights of Michael "TWILIGHT YRS" Jordan

31:37 mins of every highlight worthy play of 33 yrs old Jordan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxD3P0POH3Q)

why MJ was the only LEGIT Bull to deserve FMVP.

Game 1 fmvp candidates (winner gets the game)
1. Kemp: 32 / 2 / 8 @ 9/14 (64%FG) - Terrific Game
2. Jordan: 28 / 2 / 7 @ 9/18 (50%FG) - Good solid game
3. Kukoc: 18 / 4 / 4 @ 7/13 (54%FG) - SOLID off the Bench

Game 2: fmvp candidates winners gets the game
1. Jordan: 29 / 8 / 6 @ 41%FG
2. Rodman: 10 / 0 / 20 @ 50%FG
3. Kemp: 29 / 2 / 13 @ 44%FG

Game 3: fmvp candidates
1. Jordan: 36 / 5 / 3 @ 48%FG- GREAT game that sealed the FMVP for MJ. only way MJ was gonna loose FMVP was to Kemp or Payton if Sonics win Game 7 from here on out.

Till this point Bulls were 3-0!

Jordan was either "player of the game" or shared "player of the game" with co-starter of Bulls.

Game 4 was Jordan's first Bad game of this finals & since 1991 finals.
1. Kemp: 25 / 3 / 11 @ 70%FG: Terrific FMVP game by kemp as sonics won.
2. Payton: 23/6/9 @ 39%FG
3. Rodman: 14 rebounds game. Good effort.

Game 5
1. Kemp: 22 / 3 / 10 @ 50%FG: FMVP performance in a win.
2. Jordan: 26 / 1 / 4 @ 50%FG

Game 6:
1. Kemp: 18 / 3 / 14 @ 47%FG
2. Rodman:9 / 5 / 19 @ 44%FG
3. Jordan: 22 / 7 / 9 @ 34%FG

Why MJ was the only Bulls the deserved MVP:

-Pippen, Bulls 2nd best scoring option had HORRIBLE, DISASTEROUS finals. It was pathetic at 15.7 / 8.2 / 5.3 @ 34%FG as he clearly failed to solidify FMVP.

-Rodman only showed up in 2 games out of possible 6 with GREAT performances. 20 rebounds in game 2 & 19 rebounds in game 6.

BUT

Here is a catch. Rodman played GREAT only AT HOME. while Jordan's BEST game of the series was ON THE ROAD where he sealed a 3-0 lead for the Bulls.

FMVP meter:

Jordan 3 games.
Rodman 2 games.
Kemp 2 games.

Kemp was the only LEGIT FMVP candidates with GREAT finals stats of 23.3 / 2.2 / 10.00 @ 55%FG for the series.

followed by

Jordan: 27.3 / 4.2 / 5.3 @ 42%FG. - FMVP was given to the best player of the winning team.

Rodman DID NOT even cross 15 rpg ave (14.7) with scoring only 7.5 ppg. Rodman was 2nd best & better than Pippen but clearly wasn't the best player of the Bulls in the Finals series.

not enough to win an FMVP despite Jordan not BEASTING & DOMINATING finals.

[Magic 32]

Now that this forum is running rampant with rabid ISH'ers

Here is a must watch 1996 FMVP highlights of Michael "TWILIGHT YRS" Jordan

31:37 mins of every highlight worthy play of 33 yrs old Jordan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxD3P0POH3Q)

why MJ was the only LEGIT Bull to deserve FMVP.

Game 1 fmvp candidates (winner gets the game)
1. Kemp: 32 / 2 / 8 @ 9/14 (64%FG) - Terrific Game
2. Jordan: 28 / 2 / 7 @ 9/18 (50%FG) - Good solid game
3. Kukoc: 18 / 4 / 4 @ 7/13 (54%FG) - SOLID off the Bench

Game 2: fmvp candidates winners gets the game
1. Jordan: 29 / 8 / 6 @ 41%FG
2. Rodman: 10 / 0 / 20 @ 50%FG
3. Kemp: 29 / 2 / 13 @ 44%FG

Game 3: fmvp candidates
1. Jordan: 36 / 5 / 3 @ 48%FG- GREAT game that sealed the FMVP for MJ. only way MJ was gonna loose FMVP was to Kemp or Payton if Sonics win Game 7 from here on out.

Till this point Bulls were 3-0!

Jordan was either "player of the game" or shared "player of the game" with co-starter of Bulls.

Game 4 was Jordan's first Bad game of this finals & since 1991 finals.
1. Kemp: 25 / 3 / 11 @ 70%FG: Terrific FMVP game by kemp as sonics won.
2. Payton: 23/6/9 @ 39%FG
3. Rodman: 14 rebounds game. Good effort.

Game 5
1. Kemp: 22 / 3 / 10 @ 50%FG: FMVP performance in a win.
2. Jordan: 26 / 1 / 4 @ 50%FG

Game 6:
1. Kemp: 18 / 3 / 14 @ 47%FG
2. Rodman:9 / 5 / 19 @ 44%FG
3. Jordan: 22 / 7 / 9 @ 34%FG

Why MJ was the only Bulls the deserved MVP:

-Pippen, Bulls 2nd best scoring option had HORRIBLE, DISASTEROUS finals. It was pathetic at 15.7 / 8.2 / 5.3 @ 34%FG as he clearly failed to solidify FMVP.

-Rodman only showed up in 2 games out of possible 6 with GREAT performances. 20 rebounds in game 2 & 19 rebounds in game 6.

BUT

Here is a catch. Rodman played GREAT only AT HOME. while Jordan's BEST game of the series was ON THE ROAD where he sealed a 3-0 lead for the Bulls.

FMVP meter:

Jordan 3 games.
Rodman 2 games.
Kemp 2 games.

Kemp was the only LEGIT FMVP candidates with GREAT finals stats of 23.3 / 2.2 / 10.00 @ 55%FG for the series.

followed by

Jordan: 27.3 / 4.2 / 5.3 @ 42%FG. - FMVP was given to the best player of the winning team.

Rodman DID NOT even cross 15 rpg ave (14.7) with scoring only 7.5 ppg. Rodman was 2nd best & better than Pippen but clearly wasn't the best player of the Bulls in the Finals series.

not enough to win an FMVP despite Jordan not BEASTING & DOMINATING finals.

5-19

Right?

[gengiskhan]

5-19

Right?

reason why Rodman is the PLAYER OF THE GAME 6 with 19 rebounds.

still

7.5 ppg from Rodman when Pippen is struggling with 15 ppg @ 34%FG shooting.

That will never get Rodman MVP especially if he did not average 20-22 rpg for the series.

[97 bulls]

reason why Rodman is the PLAYER OF THE GAME 6 with 19 rebounds.

still

7.5 ppg from Rodman when Pippen is struggling with 15 ppg @ 34%FG shooting.

That will never get Rodman MVP especially if he did not average 20-22 rpg for the series.
It wasnt based on Rodmans ppg. His rehounding was outstanding. He had Kemp visibly flustered. I believe he avgd around 4 assists as well.

Back on Kemp. Most of his points were in garbage time. When the game was well in hand. Id even go so far to say as far as performance, It was Rodman, Jordan, Longley, Kukoc, then Pippen. Both Longley and Kukoc played well during that series.

[1987_Lakers]

Wonder what would of happened if GP was on Jordan the whole series.

[D.J.]

In the 3 complete games Payton guarded Jordan, the Sonics won 2 of them. Jordan was actually terrible that series, especially from the 2nd half of game 3 on. He took terrible shots, Payton's in your face D made Jordan do stupid things, and Jordan was also uncharacteristically missing open jump shots.

[gengiskhan]

In the 3 complete games Payton guarded Jordan, the Sonics won 2 of them. Jordan was actually terrible that series, especially from the 2nd half of game 3 on. He took terrible shots, Payton's in your face D made Jordan do stupid things, and Jordan was also uncharacteristically missing open jump shots.

When MJ is hounded by terrific defense. Pippen as usual disappeared. for 2nd best scorer of a team to ave 15 ppg is PATHETIC. That could've affected MJ mentally.

This was the series 31 yrs old Pippen needed to score 21-22 ppg. BUT he looked like he AGED more than MJ.

GP was 25. youth, athleticism, rock solid DPOY skills will make 33 yrs old TWILIGHT jordan take weird shots & miss easy ones.

Bulls 2nd best all-star FAILED to step up.

[gengiskhan]

It wasnt based on Rodmans ppg. His rehounding was outstanding. He had Kemp visibly flustered. I believe he avgd around 4 assists as well.

Back on Kemp. Most of his points were in garbage time. When the game was well in hand. Id even go so far to say as far as performance, It was Rodman, Jordan, Longley, Kukoc, then Pippen. Both Longley and Kukoc played well during that series.

Rodman's rebounding is OVERBLOWN

Rodman only averaged 14.5 rpg.

Its amazing people act like he averaged 17-20 rpg & had a TERRIFIC FMVP series.

He didn't

Infact, in seattle Rodman had 12, 9 rebounds.

for a ONE TRICK PONY who did not block any shots at age 34. its not good enough to win a series.

[97 bulls]

When MJ is hounded by terrific defense. Pippen as usual disappeared. for 2nd best scorer of a team to ave 15 ppg is PATHETIC. That could've affected MJ mentally.

This was the series 31 yrs old Pippen needed to score 21-22 ppg. BUT he looked like he AGED more than MJ.

GP was 25. youth, athleticism, rock solid DPOY skills will make 33 yrs old TWILIGHT jordan take weird shots & miss easy ones.

Bulls 2nd best all-star FAILED to step up.
Pippen was playing hurt. Was this thread made to bash Pippen? Or discuss who was most deserving of the finals MVP in 96

[gengiskhan]

Wonder what would of happened if GP was on Jordan the whole series.

Nothing.

GP would've burned out till Game 4.

You gotta understand, MJ did score a 50%FG in seattle ON THE ROAD on him.

You can physically harrass & hound MJ with in-your-face D & payton is terrific at that.

But eventually you'll burn out.

I believe Game 6 was the last game Payton would've played that Physical.

If there was a game 7, MJ would've come back with another 50%FG shooting night.

[gengiskhan]

Pippen was playing hurt. Was this thread made to bash Pippen? Or discuss who was most deserving of the finals MVP in 96

Pippen has always been hurt.

He was hurt in 1997 NBA finals.

His back was hurt in 1998 NBA Finals.

Those are not excuses. 15 ppg is way too low for Top 5 players in the game as a 2nd option.

reality is 31 yrs old Pippen was AGING pretty fast offensively. That put INCREDIBLE pressure on 33-35 yrs old MJ as Rodman was Rebounding specialist, a ONE TRICK PONY.

[97 bulls]

Rodman's rebounding is OVERBLOWN

Rodman only averaged 14.5 rpg.

Its amazing people act like he averaged 17-20 rpg & had a TERRIFIC FMVP series.

He didn't

Infact, in seattle Rodman had 12, 9 rebounds.

for a ONE TRICK PONY who did not block any shots at age 34. its not good enough to win a series.
Thats a hell of alot of boards for that time period. And so what he didnt get a large amount of rebounds in two games. For the series, he played great. Youre being unreasonable.

[gengiskhan]

Thats a hell of alot of boards for that time period. And so what he didnt get a large amount of rebounds in two games. For the series, he played great. Youre being unreasonable.

Jordan played 3 SOLID games out of 6 games.

& his best game of the series was the ROAD game 3.

That gave Bulls 3-0 lead!

MJ was clearly still the best player of the series for the Bulls.

Rodman was still 2nd best.

Anyone who say, Rodman won the series with 14.5 rpg / 7.5 ppg is retarded.

Rodman atleast needed to average DOUBLE DOUBLE to win FMVP over MJ. the way Pippen was tanking.

[D.J.]

Rodman singlehandedly won 2 games that series. George Karl even admitted it.

[97 bulls]

Pippen has always been hurt.

He was hurt in 1997 NBA finals.

His back was hurt in 1998 NBA Finals.

Those are not excuses. 15 ppg is way too low for Top 5 players in the game as a 2nd option.

reality is 31 yrs old Pippen was AGING pretty fast offensively. That put INCREDIBLE pressure on 33-35 yrs old MJ as Rodman was Rebounding specialist, a ONE TRICK PONY.

Its not an excuse. Its a reason. The same way for Bird, Wade, etc. Perhaps if Pippen decided to take a couple years off he could have allowed his body to heal and come back fresh. From 90 to 00, Pippens teams advanced deep into the playoffs. And he played in two Olympics.

[gengiskhan]

Rodman singlehandedly won 2 games that series. George Karl even admitted it.

thats not enough to win FMVP btw.

Rodman still need to average more than 7.5 ppg especially he barely blocked a SINGLE shot the whole series.

There were only 2 FMVPs for the series.

Either Kemp or Jordan.

Jordan won it cuz Bulls won the series.

[97 bulls]

Rodman singlehandedly won 2 games that series. George Karl even admitted it.
Exactly

[D.J.]

thats not enough to win FMVP btw.

Rodman still need to average more than 7.5 ppg especially he barely blocked a SINGLE shot the whole series.

There were only 2 FMVPs for the series.

Either Kemp or Jordan.

Jordan won it cuz Bulls won the series.


His impact can't be measured entirely by stats. He got in Brickowski's and Kemp's heads all series. His biggest impact was on the offensive glass. In 3 of the 6 games, he pulled down 8, 11, and 11 offensive rebounds. And 2 of those games were close right down to the end.

[97 bulls]

thats not enough to win FMVP btw.

Rodman still need to average more than 7.5 ppg especially he barely blocked a SINGLE shot the whole series.

There were only 2 FMVPs for the series.

Either Kemp or Jordan.

Jordan won it cuz Bulls won the series.
You only have to win 4 games bro. The opposing coach credited Rodman with two if thise wins SINGLEHANDEDLY. Not to mention he didnt play bad in the two losses.

[gengiskhan]

You only have to win 4 games bro. The opposing coach credited Rodman with two if thise wins SINGLEHANDEDLY. Not to mention he didnt play bad in the two losses.

He was pretty ordinary ON THE ROAD.

You win championships ON THE ROAD.

MJ had his BEST game of the series in Game 3 ON THE ROAD.

That ROAD WIN game, rodman had only 10 rebounds.


In so many words, Rodman needed back-2-back 18+ rebounding games to be a legit FMVP contender.

He may have won 2 games SINGLEHANDEDLY

BUT

ON THE 3 ROAD GAMES, his rebounding stats were 12 rpg. good but not great for ONE TRICK PONY with 0.2 bpg.

Bulls did not had 2nd 8+ rpg player.

rodman had to deliver 15+ rebounds game ON THE ROAD.

he failed there.

he was TERRIFIC at home.

[97 bulls]

He was pretty ordinary ON THE ROAD.

You win championships ON THE ROAD.

MJ had his BEST game of the series in Game 3 ON THE ROAD.

That ROAD WIN game, rodman had only 10 rebounds.


In so many words, Rodman needed back-2-back 18+ rebounding games to be a legit FMVP contender.

He may have won 2 games SINGLEHANDEDLY

BUT

ON THE 3 ROAD GAMES, his rebounding stats were 12 rpg. good but not great for ONE TRICK PONY with 0.2 bpg.

Bulls did not had 2nd 8+ rpg player.

rodman had to deliver 15+ rebounds game ON THE ROAD.

he failed there.

he was TERRIFIC at home.
In game 3 Rodman stat line was 5/10/2 on 67%shooting in ONLY 30 min of a BLOWOUT. The Bulls were plus 22 when he was on the floor. Im sure had he played another 11-12 minutes, his stats would probably be close to 9/17/4. This is why we cant put too mich stock in stats as a means to draw conclusions of a players impact.

[gengiskhan]

In game 3 Rodman stat line was 5/10/2 on 67%shooting in ONLY 30 min of a BLOWOUT. The Bulls were plus 22 when he was on the floor. Im sure had he played another 11-12 minutes, his stats would probably be close to 9/17/4. This is why we cant put too mich stock in stats as a means to draw conclusions of a players impact.

so would you make an argument that Rodman was an FMVP of 1996 nba finals on <15 rpg alone.

His bpg are horrendrous.

Kemp averaged 10rpg after averaging 23+ppg.

Many consider Rodman frustrated Kemp but I dont see how a PF really frustrates other PF with an average of 23+/10 @ 55%FG in NBA finals.

Rodman may have gotten a rebound.

Kemp played like runner-up MVP in 1996 finals. His could've easily been 25+/10+ had he not taken 7 FGA for 14 pts in Game 3.

[97 bulls]

so would you make an argument that Rodman was an FMVP of 1996 nba finals on <15 rpg alone.

His bpg are horrendrous.

Kemp averaged 10rpg after averaging 23+ppg.

Many consider Rodman frustrated Kemp but I dont see how a PF really frustrates other PF with an average of 23+/10 @ 55%FG in NBA finals.

Rodman may have gotten a rebound.

Kemp played like runner-up MVP in 1996 finals. His could've easily been 25+/10+ had he not taken 7 FGA for 14 pts in Game 3.
Rodman definitely got into Kemps head that series. He commited a lot of silly fouls, had a lot of TOs, and technicals. And again, a large portion if Kemps numbers occurred with the game well in hand.

[LA Lakers]

Rodman "only" averaged 14.5 rebounds per game! Haha. "Only". Most players can only dream of dominating the boards like that. 14.5 average! Are you kidding me? That is insane. Rodman was cleaning up the glass no doubt.

[KOBE143]

Even tho Rodman was the most important Bulls player in that series, I think Jordan still deserve the FMVP.. Both Jordan and Rodman were co-FMVP in that series and since Jordan was the face of the league and Devin Stern greener pasture so they gave it to Jordan..

[Psileas]

Rodman "only" averaged 14.5 rebounds per game! Haha. "Only". Most players can only dream of dominating the boards like that. 14.5 average! Are you kidding me? That is insane. Rodman was cleaning up the glass no doubt.

Yeah, and "only" a 23.9% rebounding rate. "Overblown" he says, needed to average 20-22 rpg...:oldlol:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

MJ stans are the worst stans in pro basketball:roll: Payton owned the shit outta MJ and then Rodman dominated on the boards and won chitown the games SMH biggest Fmvp robbery til 08:facepalm :coleman:

[gengiskhan]

Rodman "only" averaged 14.5 rebounds per game! Haha. "Only". Most players can only dream of dominating the boards like that. 14.5 average! Are you kidding me? That is insane. Rodman was cleaning up the glass no doubt.

You do know that Rodman's nemisis Kemp had 23+/10+ as PF & compare that to Bulls PF 7.5/14.5.

that aint enough to win FMVP over MJ who had 27+/4+/5+

no matter how you slice it.

MJ's assists stats went down cuz he played OFF THE BALL big time in this series more than 1997 finals & particularly 1998 finals..

Pippen was the PRIMARY BALL HANDLER & still tanked the whole series.

Rodman was GREAT but he was not FMVP worthy at all.

Rodman must average DOUBLE DOUBLE at 15rpg to be considered FMVP.

or

Rodman needed to average 20+rpg/7.5ppg to get FMVP over MJ.

he did not do it.

[gengiskhan]

Rodman "only" averaged 14.5 rebounds per game! Haha. "Only". Most players can only dream of dominating the boards like that. 14.5 average! Are you kidding me? That is insane. Rodman was cleaning up the glass no doubt.

question here is not MOST PLAYERs. :roll:

question here is Did Rodman deserved FMVP over MJ's 27+/4+/5+ especially since 2nd best scoring option had 15+ppg average.

NO!

Rodman was still the 2nd best peformer for Bulls in 1996 finals.

He was clearly not the best despite peforming great in 2 games of the finals.

[gengiskhan]

Rodman definitely got into Kemps head that series. He commited a lot of silly fouls, had a lot of TOs, and technicals. And again, a large portion if Kemps numbers occurred with the game well in hand.

Kemp had 4 FGM out of 7 FGA the whole game for scoring 14 pts. :facepalm

Kemp was actually criticized for not gunning for 35+pts like MJ in the most important game of franchises career AT HOME after being down 0-2.

thank god I dont see game only through Jordan's stans prism.

Kemp was actually critized for not going for 40 pts & getting seattle their first win AT HOME.

[gengiskhan]

MJ stans are the worst stans in pro basketball:roll: Payton owned the shit outta MJ IN 1/2 of NBA FINALS and then Rodman dominated on the boards and won chitown the games SMH biggest Fmvp robbery til 08:facepalm :coleman:

Corrected.

MJ was SOLID in game 1 with 29 pts.

MJ was SOLID in game 2 with 28 pts.

MJ was GREAT in payton's backyard with 36 pts.

Bulls were up 3-0!. MJ won them 2 games. Rodman won them 1 game.


No matter how you slice it, they NEVER give FMVP for averaging SINGLE DIGIT scoring.

7.5 ppg. :lol

to win FMVP, a primary scorer need to cross 25 ppg & another catagory with 5+. MJ DID

to win FMVP, a rebounder must cross 15 rpg & have DOUBLE DOUBE. rodman FAILED! :lol

Pippen FAILED too.

MJ is the reason why bulls pull out in 6 games.

Rodman played TERRIFIC. thats about it.

to win FMVP he still needed 10 ppg / 15 rpg ave.

especially since Pippen TANKED with 15 ppg @ 34%FG kobe like. :lol

[NBASTATMAN]

Thats a hell of alot of boards for that time period. And so what he didnt get a large amount of rebounds in two games. For the series, he played great. Youre being unreasonable.


Rodman was really good at rebounding the ball but he wasn't great in that series because Kemp destroyed him in that series.. Rodman was great at getting rebounds but most of that was off of the doubles and triple teams MJ was seeing..

Mj's shooting percentage wasn't great but when your second best scorer isn't getting it done it will have an impact..It's Not like having a CENTER shooting over 50 percent and winning BIG GAME 7 's for you...

IS MJ the only player ever able to carry a team to a title with his sidekick shooting under 40 percent for the entire playoffs? :bowdown:

[97 bulls]

Kemp had 4 FGM out of 7 FGA the whole game for scoring 14 pts. :facepalm

Kemp was actually criticized for not gunning for 35+pts like MJ in the most important game of franchises career AT HOME after being down 0-2.

thank god I dont see game only through Jordan's stans prism.

Kemp was actually critized for not going for 40 pts & getting seattle their first win AT HOME.
I was referring to the series as a whole. Not just game three. But again, at what point do we credit the defense (Rodmans) for limiting Kemps FGAs?

You cant be this simple.

[plowking]

Kemp owned the shit out of Rodman that series, and no one likes to bring up the fact that the Bulls got some handy calls going their way the whole series.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Rodman's rebounding in that series was crucial, but that's literally the ONLY thing he did. On defense, Kemp used and abused him.

Meanwhile, Mike carried the scoring load. Was probably the teams best playmaker too. His defense? Wasn't too shabby either. Payton and Hawkins were held to 16ppg (on average) and 44% shooting.

MJ was the Finals MVP. No doubt about it.

[gengiskhan]

Kemp owned the shit out of Rodman that series, and no one likes to bring up the fact that the Bulls got some handy calls going their way the whole series.

not just rodman was OWNED!

Pipped got RAPPED defensively bu Kemp.

Kemp had couple of posterizing dunks on both terrific all-time Top 5 defenders ever.

The problem with Jordan stans is, they see everything from Bulls prism.

Its almost like Kemp wasnt the best performer of the series 23+/10+ with more BPG than opponent's PF rodman.

Kemp was the only LEGIT FMVP besides Jordan.

Rodman was NEVER really an FMVP at all. His BPG was horrible. committed many turnovers.

He was a REBOUNDING SPECIALIST who did exactly that. played GREAT!

[Soundwave]

The 96 Finals was a bit of a weird one, the Bulls raced out to a 3-0 lead in the series, and pretty much everyone and their grandma said it was over. And it was, basically. Seattle just played their butts off the next two games to save face and Chicago let the foot off the gas pedal a little bit for the first time that year.

Really for the Bulls their NBA Finals that year was sweeping Orlando. That was the big match up. Beating who ever came out of the West was basically a formality.

I'll give MJ a pass on the Father's Day clinching game too, given the circumstances of it, I can understand why his head might've not be fully into the game.

[gengiskhan]

Rodman's rebounding in that series was crucial, but that's literally the ONLY thing he did. On defense, Kemp used and abused him.

Meanwhile, Mike carried the scoring load. Was probably the teams best playmaker too. His defense? Wasn't too shabby either. Payton and Hawkins were held to 16ppg (on average) and 44% shooting.

MJ was the Finals MVP. No doubt about it.

MJ FAILED to "DOMINATE" the NBA finals like 1991, 1992, 1993

that 31+/11+ or that 41 ppg/6+ were missing.

But that dont mean MJ did not deserve 1996 FMVP by being GOOD or SOLID 27+/4+/5+ especially the way Pippen had a KOBE like FLOP the whole series with 15+ppg at 34%FG

[longtime lurker]

MJ shot 5-19 in the deciding game. Obviously Rodman was the real finals MVP

[CAstill]

The 96 Finals was a bit of a weird one, the Bulls raced out to a 3-0 lead in the series, and pretty much everyone and their grandma said it was over. And it was, basically. Seattle just played their butts off the next two games to save face and Chicago let the foot off the gas pedal a little bit for the first time that year.

Really for the Bulls their NBA Finals that year was sweeping Orlando. That was the big match up. Beating who ever came out of the West was basically a formality.

I'll give MJ a pass on the Father's Day clinching game too, given the circumstances of it, I can understand why his head might've not be fully into the game.

:biggums:

Sonics would of beat the Magic in 7 with home court advantage
Kemp was the best player in the league that year. Too bad he wasn't
more selfish.

[Ne 1]

Post '96 finals analysis of the MVP.

"Listen, everybody knows I'm a Tarheel, undergraduate and graduate and obviously one of the world's biggest Jordan fans coming from that background. I really believe Dennis Rodman was the MVP of this series. Jordan was the difference in game 3. I think game 1 was largely a team effort. But in game 2 and 6, particularly yesterday when the psyche was hanging in the balance. I think he's the guy who established their authority for them on the court and the guy who provided clutch plays for them when they most needed them, particularly at the end of game 2."

As someone who has actually SEEN the series, I've been split 50/50 on who the MVP was. Rodman was (clearly) the MVP of two wins (Jordan played sub-par in those games), Jordan was clearly the MVP of the other two (Rodman played/rebounded well in those games).

Finals MVP voting broke down like this...

11 votes total

MJ got 6 votes
Kemp got 3 votes
Rodman got 2 votes

Rodman was definitely a candidate so I'm not sure why people are acting like saying Rodman was the MVP of the Soncis series is revisionist history when at the time many thought he deserved it, and he did in fact receive votes for the award too. Even in retrospect you can make that argument. Rodman's historic offensive rebounding was the single thing that made up for the Bull's and Jordan's shooting woes. That is the biggest reason they won despite shooting worse than Seattle, as Rodman kept buying possession after possession, which not only created second chance points for his team but huge momentum shifts as well.
Seattle coach George Karl said,

[Poetry]

Post '96 finals analysis of the MVP.

"Listen, everybody knows I'm a Tarheel, undergraduate and graduate and obviously one of the world's biggest Jordan fans coming from that background. I really believe Dennis Rodman was the MVP of this series. Jordan was the difference in game 3. I think game 1 was largely a team effort. But in game 2 and 6, particularly yesterday when the psyche was hanging in the balance. I think he's the guy who established their authority for them on the court and the guy who provided clutch plays for them when they most needed them, particularly at the end of game 2."

As someone who has actually SEEN the series, I've been split 50/50 on who the MVP was. Rodman was (clearly) the MVP of two wins (Jordan played sub-par in those games), Jordan was clearly the MVP of the other two (Rodman played/rebounded well in those games).

Finals MVP voting broke down like this...

11 votes total

MJ got 6 votes
Kemp got 3 votes
Rodman got 2 votes

Rodman was definitely a candidate so I'm not sure why people are acting like saying Rodman was the MVP of the Soncis series is revisionist history when at the time many thought he deserved it, and he did in fact receive votes for the award too. Even in retrospect you can make that argument. Rodman's historic offensive rebounding was the single thing that made up for the Bull's and Jordan's shooting woes. That is the biggest reason they won despite shooting worse than Seattle, as Rodman kept buying possession after possession, which not only created second chance points for his team but huge momentum shifts as well.
Seattle coach George Karl said, “As you evaluate the series, Dennis Rodman won two basketball games. Game 2 and tonight, he was the reason they were successful.”


It's a coin-toss between Michael and Dennis," Seattle coach George Karl said Monday, a day after his SuperSonics fell behind 3-0 to the Chicago Bulls in the NBA Finals.

In Game 6, in which Jordan shot 5-for-19 (26.3%) and Chicago 39.7% as a team, Rodman had 19 rebounds, 11 offensive, tying the single-game record for the second time, nine points, five assists and three steals.

In Game 2, in which Michael Jordan shot 9-for-22 (40.9%) and Chicago 39.0% as a team, Rodman scored 10 points and grabbed 20 rebounds, an NBA Finals record-tying 11 on the offensive glass, to lead the Bulls to a 92-88 win. “Rodman was definitely the difference,” Hershey Hawkins said. “Rodman killed us,” said Vincent Askew. “There is no question he was the MVP of the game,” Karl said. “His offensive rebounds hurt us. A lot of possessions, the momentum of the game, the style of the game, and even the scoreboard might have changed.”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ddBkyCKHus&#t=1m40s

Post '96 finals analysis of the MVP.

Listen, everybody knows I'm a Tarheel, undergraduate and graduate and obviously one of the world's biggest Jordan fans coming from that background. I really believe Dennis Rodman was the MVP of this series. Jordan was the difference in game 3. I think game 1 was largely a team effort. But in game 2 and 6, particularly yesterday when the psyche was hanging in the balance. I think he's the guy who established their authority for them on the court and the guy who provided clutch plays for them when they most needed them, particularly at the end of game 2.

As someone who has actually SEEN the series, I've been split 50/50 on who the MVP was. Rodman was (clearly) the MVP of two wins (Jordan played sub-par in those games), Jordan was clearly the MVP of the other two (Rodman played/rebounded well in those games).

Finals MVP voting broke down like this...

11 votes total

MJ got 6 votes
Kemp got 3 votes
Rodman got 2 votes

Rodman was definitely a candidate so I'm not sure why people are acting like this is revisionist history when at the time many thought he deserved it, and he did in fact receive votes for the award too. Even in retrospect you can make that argument. Rodman's historic offensive rebounding was the single thing that made up for the Bull's and Jordan's shooting woes. That is the biggest reason they won despite shooting worse than Seattle, as Rodman kept buying possession after possession, which not only created second chance points for his team but huge momentum shifts as well.


Plagiarism?

[gengiskhan]

Bulls # 2 scoring option.

1991 (age 26) - 20.8 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 6.6 apg, 2.4 spg, 45.3 FG%

1992 (age 27) - 20.8 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 48.4 FG%

1993 (age 28) - 20.8 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 7.7 apg, 2.0 spg, 43 FG%

1996 (age 31) - 15.7 ppg:lol :applause: , 8.2 rpg, 5.3 apg, 2.3 spg, 34 FG%:lol :applause:

1997 (age 32) - 20.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 42.1 FG%

1998 (age 33) - 15.7 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.7 spg 41 FG%

You're 2nd option puts up 15 pts every Finals game at 34%FG in his PRIME yrs. :lol

& MJ dont deserve FMVP for 27+/4+/5+ @ 42%FG. :lol :roll:

Dennis Rodman was ROBBED of FMVP for 7.5 / 14.5. :oldlol: :wtf:

[guy]

Jordan was the MVP. The people that usually have a problem with it are the ones that usually have a problem with how much credit Jordan gets in general.

Jordan played below his standards while Rodman didn't. But that doesn't mean Rodman was a better player in the series. There's no one in their right mind that can seriously say the Bulls would've had a better chance without Jordan then without Rodman.

The argument against Jordan seems to be his inefficiency and scoring impact in general wasn't greater then Rodmans rebounding impact. Well, why do these same people not argue for Wallace over Billups in 04, KG over Pierce in 08, and Gasol over Kobe in 2010? Scoring wise, their impact was equal or less, while their teammates not only had a huge impact on the boards that may have not been as big as Rodman's, but some of the clearly had a larger offensive impact then him.

[Smoke117]

Pippen has always been hurt.

He was hurt in 1997 NBA finals.

His back was hurt in 1998 NBA Finals.

Those are not excuses. 15 ppg is way too low for Top 5 players in the game as a 2nd option.

reality is 31 yrs old Pippen was AGING pretty fast offensively. That put INCREDIBLE pressure on 33-35 yrs old MJ as Rodman was Rebounding specialist, a ONE TRICK PONY.

No the reality is that Pippen was playing with a wrist, knee, and ankle injury in the 96 playoffs. He still led the playoffs in drating and defensive win shares.

[gengiskhan]

No the reality is that Pippen was playing with a wrist, knee, and ankle injury in the 96 playoffs. He still led the playoffs in drating and defensive win shares.

Good lord

now even better reason why Kemp had such a good finals. Kemp even posterized pippen & rodman like crazy with some Jam session of his own throughout the series.

Pippen cannot score but people expected Pippen-Rodman combo to defend Kemp.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Jordan was the MVP. The people that usually have a problem with it are the ones that usually have a problem with how much credit Jordan gets in general.

Jordan played below his standards while Rodman didn't. But that doesn't mean Rodman was a better player in the series. There's no one in their right mind that can seriously say the Bulls would've had a better chance without Jordan then without Rodman.

The argument against Jordan seems to be his inefficiency and scoring impact in general wasn't greater then Rodmans rebounding impact. Well, why do these same people not argue for Wallace over Billups in 04, KG over Pierce in 08, and Gasol over Kobe in 2010? Scoring wise, their impact was equal or less, while their teammates not only had a huge impact on the boards that may have not been as big as Rodman's, but some of the clearly had a larger offensive impact then him.
Billups in 04 had a huge difference in points and assists over Wallace while shooting 51/47/93 in the series.
KG has a good case for 08 FMVP.
Gasol averaged only 3.6 more RPG than Kobe in 2010.

Looking at the numbers, Jordan was the FMVP. The series was won after the first 3 games when the Bulls took a 3-0 lead. MJ had 28-7-2 on 50%, 29-6-8 on 41%, and 36-3-5 on 48% in those first 3 games. Those are FMVP worthy in any series. Game 3 which really put the series away since a 3-0 series lead with a win vs a 2-1 series lead with a loss is big. In that game 3 Rodman had 5 points and 10 rebounds while Jordan had 36 points.How can people say Rodman was FMVP? When you take into account the whole series, Jordan averaged nearly 20 more PPG than Rodman. Way too big of a gap offensively to even make a case for Rodman.

[97 bulls]

Billups in 04 had a huge difference in points and assists over Wallace while shooting 51/47/93 in the series.
KG has a good case for 08 FMVP.
Gasol averaged only 3.6 more RPG than Kobe in 2010.

Looking at the numbers, Jordan was the FMVP. The series was won after the first 3 games when the Bulls took a 3-0 lead. MJ had 28-7-2 on 50%, 29-6-8 on 41%, and 36-3-5 on 48% in those first 3 games. Those are FMVP worthy in any series. Game 3 which really put the series away since a 3-0 series lead with a win vs a 2-1 series lead with a loss is big. In that game 3 Rodman had 5 points and 10 rebounds while Jordan had 36 points.How can people say Rodman was FMVP? When you take into account the whole series, Jordan averaged nearly 20 more PPG than Rodman. Way too big of a gap offensively to even make a case for Rodman.
So the first three wins dont hold as much weight as the last one? Jordan should get credit for having statistically good performances in 2 losses? Wow

[gengiskhan]

So the first three wins dont hold as much weight as the last one? Jordan should get credit for having statistically good performances in 2 losses? Wow

MJ was ROCK SOLID in first 2 games.

MJ was GREAT in most important ROAD game of the series.

Game 3 & Game 5 are the most important games of Finals series.

Game 3 even more important cuz of 2-3-2 format.


Game 3 is a SITTING DUCK to be stolen by a visiting team before home team feels the ultimate heat of loosing finals


Even if a team wins 72 games, those 3 BACK-2-BACK-2-BACK games ON THE ROAD can literally make sure Finals series dont go back to THEIR HOME for game 6.

MJ stole Game 3 by having the best game of the series!

Bulls got incredible 3-0 lead!

CHI FMVP was decided.

[andgar923]

So MJ's leadership doesn't count for anything?

All this mention of Rodnan's 'other' aspects yet MJ didn't do any of these 'other' stuff???

Reminds me of Pip apologists that say "pip did the other stuff" as if MJ just stood in the corner like Kobe.

[97 bulls]

MJ was ROCK SOLID in first 2 games.

MJ was GREAT in most important ROAD game of the series.

Game 3 & Game 5 are the most important games of Finals series.

Game 3 even more important cuz of 2-3-2 format.


Game 3 is a SITTING DUCK to be stolen by a visiting team before home team feels the ultimate heat of loosing finals


Even if a team wins 72 games, those 3 BACK-2-BACK-2-BACK games ON THE ROAD can literally make sure Finals series dont go back to THEIR HOME for game 6.

MJ stole Game 3 by having the best game of the series!

Bulls got incredible 3-0 lead!

CHI FMVP was decided.
Lol. MJ "stole" game 3? IT WAS A TEAM EFFORT. The Bulls jumped out on the Sonics 11-2. Finished the half being up 25 pts. They won by 22

Pippen almost had a triple double, with 3 stls and led the Bulls in defensive rating
Kukoc had 14/7/7
Longley scored 19 on 61% and along with Rodman shut down Kemp by limiting him to only 14 shots.
Rodman 5/10 in only 30 min.

The game was never in doubt. The Bulls had the lead from start to fiinish

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=1996%20nba%20finals%20game%203%20full%20 game

Heres clip of the game

[97 bulls]

So MJ's leadership doesn't count for anything?

All this mention of Rodnan's 'other' aspects yet MJ didn't do any of these 'other' stuff???

Reminds me of Pip apologists that say "pip did the other stuff" as if MJ just stood in the corner like Kobe.
No. You guys act as if Pippen did little to nothing. That s always been my gripe. And not just Pippen, but the team as a whole.

[andgar923]

No. You guys act as if Pippen did little to nothing. That s always been my gripe. And not just Pippen, but the team as a whole.
Nobody ever said he didn't. The issue is you and your ilk exaggerating his feats and minimizing MJ's.

All we ever heard was "pip provides intangibles" and continue to spew the often debunked "pip always guards the best player" as if MJ didn't do any of all that.

People alluded to that in this thread with rodman again.

" but he plays defense and does the intangibles"
Again....as if MJ didn't do all that while leading the team and being the defensive focus.

[97 bulls]

Nobody ever said he didn't. The issue is you and your ilk exaggerating his feats and minimizing MJ's.

All we ever heard was "pip provides intangibles" and continue to spew the often debunked "pip always guards the best player" as if MJ didn't do any of all that.

People alluded to that in this thread with rodman again.

" but he plays defense and does the intangibles"
Again....as if MJ didn't do all that while leading the team and being the defensive focus.
A few post above this one...... Ghengis stated that Jordan "stole" game 3. STOLE!!!!!!! How do you steel a game in which you blow it he opposition out? I said it was a team effort. Ghengis credited Jordan, I credited the team as a whole.

[gengiskhan]

A few post above this one...... Ghengis stated that Jordan "stole" game 3. STOLE!!!!!!! How do you steel a game in which you blow it he opposition out? I said it was a team effort. Ghengis credited Jordan, I credited the team as a whole.

You did not understand the logic bruh!

Game 3 in NBA finals gives a "new" HOME COURT ADVANTAGE to home team.

whatever happened in first 2 games for AWAY team is distant now.

They have 3 STRAIGHT HOME GAMES in their back yard because of the 2-3-2 sequence.

BUT

Game 3 could be STOLEN by visiting team if they play the cards right especially if the series is 1-1.

HOME team is bit relaxed & doesnt really push the panic button to desperately win game 3.

Bulls exactly did that.

The reason why MJ is credited for Game 3 win at seattle?

MJ's best game of the series is Game 3. he hit 48%FG, his Finals average. He hit 36 pts mark, his finals average.

MJ as a visiting player was clearly the Game 3 "PLAYER OF THE GAME"

The way sonics played in game 1,2,4,5. Its clear that Bulls STOLE one led by MJ's 35+ pts performance.

Its a reality!

Pippen hasn't done much the entire series btw. He may have near triple double but 1996 finals were MJ-Rodman-Kukoc show.

[97 bulls]

You did not understand the logic bruh!

Game 3 in NBA finals gives a "new" HOME COURT ADVANTAGE to home team.

whatever happened in first 2 games for AWAY team is distant now.

They have 3 STRAIGHT HOME GAMES in their back yard because of the 2-3-2 sequence.

BUT

Game 3 could be STOLEN by visiting team if they play the cards right especially if the series is 1-1.

HOME team is bit relaxed & doesnt really push the panic button to desperately win game 3.

Bulls exactly did that.

The reason why MJ is credited for Game 3 win at seattle?

MJ's best game of the series is Game 3. he hit 48%FG, his Finals average. He hit 36 pts mark, his finals average.

MJ as a visiting player was clearly the Game 3 "PLAYER OF THE GAME"

The way sonics played in game 1,2,4,5. Its clear that Bulls STOLE one led by MJ's 35+ pts performance.

Its a reality!

Pippen hasn't done much the entire series btw. He may have near triple double but 1996 finals were MJ-Rodman-Kukoc show.
Im not arguing Pippen. For whatever reason Pip just didnt have it. Ive heard it was because GP20 was defending him, his injuries, fatigue, whatever. Ive always maintained that I was most impressed with Rodman and Longley. As well as Kukoc. They played very well. Jordan wasnt himself either.

I just dont think Jordan should he anointed with the MVP based on what he did in a blowout win and two losses.

And perhaps we dont see the term "stole" as having the same meaning when it comes to sports. Stole to me is when a team wins a close game they werent supposed to. Like in the Bulls/Heat series this year game 1. Or the flu game in 97. Or the game where Bird stole that errant Isiah Thomas pass. Not a game where a team is heavily favored blows the other team out and the players play well on top of that.

[TheTenth]

Most of Kemp's points didn't come necessarily in garbage time, they usually came when Longley guarded him. I don't see why anyone can make any claim about the 1996 series without watching any of the games. Obviously Rodman didn't "shut down" Kemp but he did play very good defense against him.

[Da_Realist]

1996 NBA Finals

Michael Jordan: 27.3 PPG (42% FG, 32% 3PT, 84% FT), 5.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.2 BPG
Dennis Rodman: 7.5 PPG (49% FG, 58% FG), 14.7 RPG (6.8 ORPG), 2.5 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG

Of course there’s more to the game than a stat sheet, but Jordan averaged 20 more PPG, Rodman averaged 10 more RPG, and Jordan had more APG and SPG by considerable margins.

The reason why Jordan shouldn’t have won
His numbers weren’t as dominant as they have been in his other finals. Gary Payton played him very well in the final 3 games of the series, holding him to 23.7 PPG on 37% shooting. This was the first time we’ve really seen Jordan struggle on this magnitude. We had seen him lose before, but not looking this uncomfortable. It was eye-opening, but because it showed vulnerability, it showed how great his performances were prior to the 96 finals.

The reasons why Rodman shouldn’t have won
We saw the offensive rebounding numbers from Rodman, but I mentioned before how the Sonics were doubling off him. It was his inability to score efficiently, even when open, which caused the Bulls offense to stall so bad. So yes, Rodman did create a lot of second chances for Chicago, but if we’re being honest, he was also the reason the Bulls were missing so many shots too. Had he been a more reliable scoring option, then Seattle can’t double as much, and if that’s the case, does Jordan shoot 37% in the final 3 games if he’s getting single-coverage by the Sonics? I think not, especially when you considered what Jordan did the very next time they played, and Rodman missed the game due to suspension.

Chicago at Seattle Feb 02, 1996

Michael Jordan: 45 points (19/ 28 FG, 2/3 3PT, 5/6 FT), 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal

Now I know it’s not a finals game, and it’s a small sample, but it’s worth noting what happened with essentially the same rosters, without Rodman.
The other reason why Rodman shouldn’t have taken the finals MVP is Games 4 and 5. The Bulls were annihilated, and let's look at that closely. Shawn Kemp, the guy that Rodman was assigned to, exploded for 25 points on 12/17 FG, and 11 rebounds in game 4. Game 5 was another Sonic blowout, and Kemp had 22 points on 8/16 shooting along with 10 rebounds. This led to the Bulls forcing to collapse at times on Kemp when he was isolated with Rodman, and led to clean looks for Hawkins and Payton from the perimeter, and opened up their offense. Not all of Kemp’s points came at the expense of Rodman, as (in another crazy coaching move), Phil Jackson opted to put Luc Longley on the explosive Shawn Kemp. This should have been Rodman’s role, but Rodman was far too prone to foul trouble, so he’s not getting a pass here for his lack of discipline.

Continued below...

Great analysis from More Than 6 Rings - Michael Jordan's Legacy: The case for Jordan being the greatest NBA player of all time (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08798HDFH/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=matthew+damian&qid=1587306626&s=digital-text&sr=1-1) by Matthew Damian

(Edited to fit within word-constraint limit)

[Da_Realist]

Continued from ^^^


Who should have won then?
It’s still Jordan. If you look in horror at Jordan’s shooting numbers, scroll down to the Bulls second-leading scorer, Scottie Pippen:

1996 NBA Finals
15.7 PPG (34% FG, 23% 3PT, 71% FT), 8.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.3 BPG

Outside of the scoring numbers, this is pretty good production. Unfortunately for Pip, the point I am making is how badly he struggled in scoring. Look at those shooting numbers, and that’s for the entire series. Let’s examine his scoring in the final 3 games (just like we did for M.J.)

Scottie Pippen in games 4, 5 and 6 of the 1996 Finals
13.3 PPG (29% FG, 22% 3PT, 75% FT), 9 RPG, 5.7 APG, 2 SPG, 1 BPG

If you winced at Jordan’s shooting numbers during that stretch, you might need a bucket nearby after reading Pippen’s. Now after all this info, I will still accept the fact that the Bulls wouldn’t have won in 96 without Rodman (especially after the job he did on Shaq in the conference finals), but that doesn’t mean he was the most valuable. I’ll go far enough to say the Bulls might not have won without Rodman. But when you factor in how Rodman hurt the Bulls offense and limited their ability to score, you can make an argument that they would have still won that series. On the other hand, when you look at the lack of offensive firepower they had, and how badly their other 2 scoring options (Kukoc and Pippen) played in that series, Chicago would not have even been competitive without Jordan, and that’s why he was (deservedly so) Finals MVP.

Great analysis from More Than 6 Rings - Michael Jordan's Legacy: The case for Jordan being the greatest NBA player of all time (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08798HDFH/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=matthew+damian&qid=1587306626&s=digital-text&sr=1-1) by Matthew Damian

(Edited to fit within word-constraint limit)

[Da_Realist]

^^^ Typo. The game was Feb 02, 1997

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199702020SEA.html

[Roundball_Rock]

Rodman got several FMVP votes and Karl (Seattle coach) thought Rodman was the FMVP.

[warriorfan]

Rodman got several FMVP votes and Karl (Seattle coach) thought Rodman was the FMVP.

That’s because George Karl is a spiteful bitch