It's sad that Hibbert's career night is an off-night for Shaquille.

[black&scholes]

Makes me shake my head seeing Roy Hibbert's face on all the sports website saying how he carried the team to a win....

His statline tonight is:
24 points, 12 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 50%FG

Shaq's season average in his prime was:
29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8apg, 3 bpg, 0.5 spg, 57.4%FG

Shaquille's regular night average is better than Hibbert's career night in all statistical categories....

I am sorry but this is ****ing sad, the centers of this age is an embarassment.

[1987_Lakers]

Apr 2013

[black&scholes]

Apr 2013


June 2007

[Ancient Legend]

Nobody is comparing or has compared Hibbert to any great center, past or present, much less Shaq. GTFO.

If you want to play that game... Shaq's stats you just posted are a way off-night compared to Wilt's 50 ppg 25 rpg prime.

[black&scholes]

Nobody is comparing or has compared Hibbert to any great center, past or present, much less Shaq. GTFO.

If you want to play that game... Shaq's stats you just posted are a way off-night compared to Wilt's 50 ppg 25 rpg prime.


wilt played against skinny short white guys, put shaq in the 60s he would average 80ppg and 50 rpg

[97 bulls]

Ive always seen Roy Hibbert as nothing more than Luc Longley. Longley would be an upper echelon center had he played today.

[Gotterdammerung]

wilt played against skinny short white guys, put shaq in the 60s he would average 80ppg and 50 rpg
:biggums:
:coleman:
:kobe:

This is why April 2013 posters should be summarily banned.

[TheCorporation]

wilt played against skinny short white guys, put shaq in the 60s he would average 80ppg and 50 rpg

:lol :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Ive always seen Roy Hibbert as nothing more than Luc Longley. Longley would be an upper echelon center had he played today.

They are similar in a way for the fact that they are both flat footed, but Hibbert is a slightly better rebounder and has a much higher impact on the defensive end.

[PTstyle272]

This was not Hibberts career night

[97 bulls]

They are similar in a way for the fact that they are both flat footed, but Hibbert is a slightly better rebounder and has a much higher impact on the defensive end.
Longley would look much better defensively if he played today vs these centers

[plowking]

Ive always seen Roy Hibbert as nothing more than Luc Longley. Longley would be an upper echelon center had he played today.

Longley wouldn't sniff top 20 center in this era. You're an idiot.

[Dro]

People who don't watch the Pacers should shut up...This is not Hibbert's career night and if you weren't sure whether it was or not, you should've asked somebody who knows what the hell they're talking about...

[NumberSix]

NumberSix

[SyRyanYang]

Is it weird that I've never met someone in real life that are remotely as dumb as many posters here:confusedshrug:

[Wavves]

This is the most idiotic thread I've seen on here in a while.

And that says a lot.

[ShaqAttack3234]

As a Knicks fan, I'll say that Hibbert was dominant tonight to the point where I was frustrated as hell watching the game. Instead of tearing Roy down by comparing him to a player not a single person ever thought Roy would approach, why not appreciate an excellent performance. Roy ruined my night, so needless to say, he impressed me. :oldlol:


Nobody is comparing or has compared Hibbert to any great center, past or present, much less Shaq. GTFO.

If you want to play that game... Shaq's stats you just posted are a way off-night compared to Wilt's 50 ppg 25 rpg prime.

Agreed with the first part, though the second part is not a good analogy because many consider Shaq and Wilt to have had comparable primes/peaks.


Ive always seen Roy Hibbert as nothing more than Luc Longley. Longley would be an upper echelon center had he played today.

Longley would probably be a solid role player at the center position just like when he played. He wouldn't be one of the better centers. I don't know where you get this shit from. I watched Luc play and he wasn't the scrub some make him out to be, but he simply wasn't good enough to be a top center in any era.

[CavaliersFTW]

:biggums:
:coleman:
:kobe:

This is why April 2013 posters should be summarily banned.
:lol co-signed

[Mrofir]

Makes me shake my head seeing Roy Hibbert's face on all the sports website saying how he carried the team to a win....

His statline tonight is:
24 points, 12 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 50%FG

Shaq's season average in his prime was:
29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8apg, 3 bpg, 0.5 spg, 57.4%FG

Shaquille's regular night average is better than Hibbert's career night in all statistical categories....

I am sorry but this is ****ing sad, the centers of this age is an embarassment.


totally agree, I also thinking its fvcking sad that everyone's making such a big deal out of norris cole's game 3. Dude had a career night and his line was only 18/2/1. Compare that to MJs prime, where he was averaging 30+/7/7, its just fvcking sad.

[Dro]

totally agree, I also thinking its fvcking sad that everyone's making such a big deal out of norris cole's game 3. Dude had a career night and his line was only 18/2/1. Compare that to MJs prime, where he was averaging 30+/7/7, its just fvcking sad.
:lol

[97 bulls]

As a Knicks fan, I'll say that Hibbert was dominant tonight to the point where I was frustrated as hell watching the game. Instead of tearing Roy down by comparing him to a player not a single person ever thought Roy would approach, why not appreciate an excellent performance. Roy ruined my night, so needless to say, he impressed me. :oldlol:



Agreed with the first part, though the second part is not a good analogy because many consider Shaq and Wilt to have had comparable primes/peaks.



Longley would probably be a solid role player at the center position just like when he played. He wouldn't be one of the better centers. I don't know where you get this shit from. I watched Luc play and he wasn't the scrub some make him out to be, but he simply wasn't good enough to be a top center in any era.
In this era? Longley would be on Hibberts level. Especially if his role were bigger. The Pacers depend on Hibbert much more than the Bulls did on Longley. I mean honestly, how many centers today are better than Longley especially when circumstances are taken into account. Meaning roles, competition, teammates etc.

[plowking]

In this era? Longley would be on Hibberts level. Especially if his role were bigger. The Pacers depend on Hibbert much more than the Bulls did on Longley. I mean honestly, how many centers today are better than Longley especially when circumstances are taken into account. Meaning roles, competition, teammates etc.

Idiot.

[1987_Lakers]

In this era? Longley would be on Hibberts level. Especially if his role were bigger. The Pacers depend on Hibbert much more than the Bulls did on Longley. I mean honestly, how many centers today are better than Longley especially when circumstances are taken into account. Meaning roles, competition, teammates etc.

I can't believe you are still this bias after all of these years.:oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

In this era? Longley would be on Hibberts level. Especially if his role were bigger. The Pacers depend on Hibbert much more than the Bulls did on Longley. I mean honestly, how many centers today are better than Longley especially when circumstances are taken into account. Meaning roles, competition, teammates etc.

Centers better than Longley this season? There's the following players who I can't see any argument for Longley over.

Tim Duncan
Marc Gasol
Joakim Noah
Dwight Howard
Brook Lopez
Roy Hibbert
Tyson Chandler
Al Horford
Al Jefferson
Nikola Pekovic
Demarcus Cousins
Omer Asik

Then there's players who aren't really centers, but play at the position for their teams such as KG and Bosh.

Longley may be less effective in this era than he was in his own because there's less traditional back to the basket players for him to use his bulk defending and the game has become smaller and more perimeter-oriented so I could less his mobility becoming more of an issue, particularly combined with the game being less physical which could make him even more foul prone.

[KyleKong]

NumberSix

I second this notion.

[MetsPackers]

Like I just said in the game thread, Hibbert always lets you down just when you think he's about to play up to his potential. He'll have a game (or a few) where he looks like the superstar center that he should be, then follow it up with a game where he gets 7/7 on 45% and fouls out in 29mins. Indiana fans will agree with me I think. Atleast that's what i've seen from him. Even if Hibbert dominates the rest of this series I garuentee he lays an egg against Miami. He just cannot sustain greatness for some reason

[Scholar]

Wow... This thread reeks of epic failure in magnified proportions.

[deja vu]

Prime Longley in today's league would be top 5 center easily. Don't kid yourself. He's not even top 30 in the 90s.

He'll own Dwight easily.

Hibbert is basically a poor man's Longley. :lol

[deja vu]

Centers better than Longley this season? There's the following players who I can't see any argument for Longley over.

Tim Duncan
Marc Gasol
Joakim Noah
Dwight Howard
Brook Lopez
Roy Hibbert
Tyson Chandler
Al Horford
Al Jefferson
Nikola Pekovic
Demarcus Cousins
Omer Asik

Then there's players who aren't really centers, but play at the position for their teams such as KG and Bosh.

Longley may be less effective in this era than he was in his own because there's less traditional back to the basket players for him to use his bulk defending and the game has become smaller and more perimeter-oriented so I could less his mobility becoming more of an issue, particularly combined with the game being less physical which could make him even more foul prone.

Damn...nobody in that list would even crack top 10 in the 90s except for Duncan who isn't a center. I'll take Longley over all these guys save for Duncan and Marc. :lol

[LAZERUSS]

wilt played against skinny short white guys, put shaq in the 60s he would average 80ppg and 50 rpg

How about this? In his last two seasons, and in years in which he seldom even shot the ball, he battled the 6-11 260 lb. Bob Lanier in 11 straight games....

1. 26 pts. 15 rebs. 11-14
2. 31 pts. 31 rebs. 15-22
3. 29 pts. 18 rebs. 13-17
4. 30 pts. 21 rebs. 14-18
5. 28 pts. 14 rebs. 10-13

144 pts. 89 rebs. 63-84

28.8 ppg 17.8 rpg .750 FG%

72-73

1. 22 pts. 19 rebs. 10-12
2. 21 pts. 21 rebs. 9-10
3. 14 pts 9 rebs 7-8
4. 18 pts unknown unknown
5. 22 pts. 14 rebs. 11-15
6. 22 pts. 13 rebs. 9-10

119 pts. in six games
76 rebs in five games
46-55 in five games

19.8 ppg 15.2 rpg .836 FG%


11 games


23.9 ppg

10 games

16.5 rpg

10 games


109-139 .784 FG%


All of the above from a Chamberlain whom was way past his prime, playing on a surgically repaired knee, and not even thinking about leading the league in scoring. Think about that. 24 ppg on .784 shooting!

BTW, Lanier had his highest scoring season in the 71-72, and was already nearing his peak. And while he certainly won his share of battles with Chamberlain in those two years, he was fortunate enough to not have faced a prime scoring Chamberlain. The same Wilt who had an incredible 20 straight games against the 6-11 HOF center, Walt Bellamy, in which he averaged 48.2 ppg over that span (yes... 48.2 ppg over the course of 20 straight games.)

[Bigsmoke]

Hibbert is one of those player that have me thinking "why isn't he averaging 18/10?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Damn...nobody in that list would even crack top 10 in the 90s except for Duncan who isn't a center. I'll take Longley over all these guys save for Duncan and Marc. :lol

Duncan has spent almost all of his time at center for more than the last half decade. More importantly, while the center position was clearly better in the 90's, your exaggerations are a joke. You can't make a decent case for Longley as a top 10 center today, and yes, pick any year Longley was a starter and I guarantee that more than Duncan would be a top 10 center.

The center position has always been top-heavy as far as stars simply because there aren't that many 7 foot people, much less healthy ones who are also coordinated enough to play basketball and develop a decent skill set.

Remember the contract Seattle gave Jim McIlvaine? And that was right during the Bulls run when Longley was starting for them.

[STATUTORY]

OP got blown up worse than LTCM

[Haymaker]

Rik Smits was a better center than Hibbert.

[BoutPractice]

It's good to see old school giants have games like this from time to time. We may have no Shaq nowadays, but I think the average quality of centers is actually going up. It's better than in the 00s, one of the worst center eras ever. Fewer and fewer teams have an Erick Dampier, Brendan Haywood, Kwame Brown or DeSagana Diop starting.

[La Frescobaldi]

wilt played against skinny short white guys, put shaq in the 60s he would average 80ppg and 50 rpg
you were doing good up to then.that's been blown up so many times...

I mean, it's free speech and all... but it just makes you look bad to say that out loud...

try to do better

[jzek]

Really? 0 block for the tallest player on the court? :facepalm

[La Frescobaldi]

It's good to see old school giants have games like this from time to time. We may have no Shaq nowadays, but I think the average quality of centers is actually going up. It's better than in the 00s, one of the worst center eras ever. Fewer and fewer teams have an Erick Dampier, Brendan Haywood, Kwame Brown or DeSagana Diop starting.

100% agree
today's centers, as far as overall league-wide, are probably better than they were for almost the last half of the Shaq era.

[LAZERUSS]

While I agree that the current crop of NBA centers is among the worst in NBA history, I do believe that they are somewhat under-rated. Hibbert and Gasol are obviously skilled. And as has been posted by other's, Duncan has been a center for the majority of his career (at least post-Robinson.) And I was completely wrong about Noah. I didn't think he would even make a decent center, but his work ethic is the best in the league, and I would take him on my team anytime. Lopez is good offensive center. Pekovic is an up-and-coming quality center. And Chandler's defense has been an asset wherever he has played. And while Howard fought injuries (and had other issues) this season, he would be among the best in any era (not saing the very best, but clearly among them.)

And while some have labeled the 90's as the "golden age" of the big man, I would argue that the early 70's was equally as strong (especially if you factor in ABA Gilmore.) Thurmond, Cowens, Lanier, Unseld, Hayes, Reed, Bellamy, McAdoo, Kareem, and Chamberlain...in smaller leagues...and playing each other 4-6 times per season. Those guys didn't have the luxury of as many "nights off" playing against scrubs that the later eras had.

[madmax]

Really? 0 block for the tallest player on the court? :facepalm

I know right:lol
dude is huge, but his reflexes and timing on defense suck big time. The success of this scrub makes me confident that young athletic centers like Valanciunas and Drummond may still dominate the current game with it's messed up rules in the future

[InspiredLebowski]

Read this thread. Take note of people that say "no blocks! omgz!" Even though he had a clean one that he got called for a foul, but watching live I could see where the refs were coming from, I thought he fouled him too.

But that's not the point. This is Serge Ibaka Syndrome. He puts up block numbers, he's elite! No, he's not. Altering every single shot that comes withing 8 feet of the rim makes you elite. Nevermind that Hibbert blocked two and half shots a game this year.

[JMT]

Is it weird that I've never met someone in real life that are remotely as dumb as many posters here:confusedshrug:


Saddest part is they think they have something really insightful to say.

[JMT]

100% agree
today's centers, as far as overall league-wide, are probably better than they were for almost the last half of the Shaq era.

This :cheers:

[La Frescobaldi]

Read this thread. Take note of people that say "no blocks! omgz!" Even though he had a clean one that he got called for a foul, but watching live I could see where the refs were coming from, I thought he fouled him too.

But that's not the point. This is Serge Ibaka Syndrome. He puts up block numbers, he's elite! No, he's not. Altering every single shot that comes withing 8 feet of the rim makes you elite. Nevermind that Hibbert blocked two and half shots a game this year.
Blocks are a strange thing. A center, or anyone really, that goes for a block just automatically throws themselves out of position for the rebound. And a guy that goes for positioning - especially if he's a boxing center - doesn't get a lot of blocked shots.
Very very few guys can get a lot of block shots AND rebounds (those 3 or 4 guys in history who can also be high scoring while doing all that are the world class elite) - it just is not in the nature of basketball to be able to do both, since your hips have to be positioned completely different to perform those 2 completely different very powerful functions.

[andremiller07]

Read this thread. Take note of people that say "no blocks! omgz!" Even though he had a clean one that he got called for a foul, but watching live I could see where the refs were coming from, I thought he fouled him too.

But that's not the point. This is Serge Ibaka Syndrome. He puts up block numbers, he's elite! No, he's not. Altering every single shot that comes withing 8 feet of the rim makes you elite. Nevermind that Hibbert blocked two and half shots a game this year.

I slept hard on Hibbert last few seaons hes much better than I thought and comparing him to Ibaka is a insult to Roy, Ibaka can't D his own position Roy can.

[InspiredLebowski]

Blocks are a strange thing. A center, or anyone really, that goes for a block just automatically throws themselves out of position for the rebound. And a guy that goes for positioning - especially if he's a boxing center - doesn't get a lot of blocked shots.
Very very few guys can get a lot of block shots AND rebounds (those 3 or 4 guys in history who can also be high scoring while doing all that are the world class elite) - it just is not in the nature of basketball to be able to do both, since your hips have to be positioned completely different to perform those 2 completely different very powerful functions.They aren't strange though. Blocks are great, obviously, they're just REALLY overrated, people have got to stop trying to quantify defense, you just can't. People that determine a player's defensive value based on nothing but blocks and steals are frankly just ignorant. Watch the games and digest them, look for the shots that aren't even attempted because of guys like Hibbert. Watch how Hibbert's rim protection enables Indy's' defense by almost never having to help in the paint.

But the pick and roll! they say. Fine, that's a weakness. But pick a weakness for a big defensively, you want a dude that denies everything at the rim, or a guy that comes out and hedges too hard just to get blow by? You wanna try and win by shooting 15 foot pull ups all day? Cool, do it, a few guys can. Most can't, those two points aren't worth more than the two points they get at the rim much more effectively. It's just common sense. If you can beat the scheme then do it, but the vast majority of teams can't.

[LAZERUSS]

Blocks are a strange thing. A center, or anyone really, that goes for a block just automatically throws themselves out of position for the rebound. And a guy that goes for positioning - especially if he's a boxing center - doesn't get a lot of blocked shots.
Very very few guys can get a lot of block shots AND rebounds (those 3 or 4 guys in history who can also be high scoring while doing all that are the world class elite) - it just is not in the nature of basketball to be able to do both, since your hips have to be positioned completely different to perform those 2 completely different very powerful functions.

Somewhat off topic, but it always amazed me that Russell and Chamberlain, who were clearly the greatest shot-blockers of all-time, as well as the greatest rebounders of all-time, were still challenged as often as they were. In baseball, the outfielders with the best arms seldom record very many assists, simply because they are not challenged.

And yet, Wilt and Russell were not only blocking many shots, and altering many other's, but also grabbing a ton of rebounds, as well. As Psileas and ThaRegul8r have pointed out, those two probably lost several rebounds per game by blocking and challenging so many other shots (and taking themselves out of rebounding position.)

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

That why shaq is alltime great top 5 and hibbert will be nothing more than an allstar:confusedshrug:

[InspiredLebowski]

That why shaq is alltime great top 5 and hibbert will be nothing more than an allstar:confusedshrug:bummer? what idiot is trying to compare Roy Hibbert to Shaq? how insecure are Shaq stans?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

bummer? what idiot is trying to compare Roy Hibbert to Shaq? how insecure are Shaq stans?
that what the title and Op is about. Centers so weak hibbert gets max and is allstar now. He would be average at best in the 90s:wtf:

[InspiredLebowski]

that what the title and Op is about. Centers so weak hibbert gets max and is allstar now. He would be average at best in the 90s:wtf:Roy Hibbert makes less money than Tyson Chandler. I just want to point this out to InsidePoops since they hear "max contract" and all other logic goes out the window. And this isn't the 90s, so that's a pretty irrelevant point.

[Nezty]

Nobody is comparing or has compared Hibbert to any great center, past or present, much less Shaq. GTFO.

If you want to play that game... Shaq's stats you just posted are a way off-night compared to Wilt's 50 ppg 25 rpg prime.



You clearly didn't get the point of his thread. It's less of comparing Hibbert and Shaq and more of saying the Centers of this era suck. And that is true, I say put a prime Shaq in any team and they can win a title. Shaq would bully any Center today more than he did ith Centers in the past.

[InspiredLebowski]

You clearly didn't get the point of his thread. It's less of comparing Hibbert and Shaq and more of saying the Centers of this era suck. And that is true, I say put a prime Shaq in any team and they can win a title. Shaq would bully any Center today more than he did ith Centers in the past.Stick a top 8ish player of all time on a team and they'd win a ring. I'm shocked. Do you people realize how dumb this "argument" is? You're not talking about the quality of NBA bigs, you're talking about putting one of the best players in basketball history on a current team. It's like saying stick Lebron on the Barkley 6ers and trying to act like the wings in the 80s sucked.

[Nezty]

Stick a top 8ish player of all time on a team and they'd win a ring. I'm shocked. Do you people realize how dumb this "argument" is? You're not talking about the quality of NBA bigs, you're talking about putting one of the best players in basketball history on a current team. It's like saying stick Lebron on the Barkley 6ers and trying to act like the wings in the 80s sucked.


The point of it was to show how weak Centers are. You can put Shaq on the Bobcats and they would win simply because there is no Center that could contain Shaq. Only a handful of Centers would play decent D on him.

[InspiredLebowski]

The point of it was to show how weak Centers are. You can put Shaq on the Bobcats and they would win simply because there is no Center that could contain Shaq. Only a handful of Centers would play decent D on him.So where's it end? Put Stockton, hell Magic, on the Bocats, do they even make the playoffs in this PG crop that's the best that basketball's ever seen?

[MisterAmazing]

comparing hibbert to shaq :roll: :roll: :roll: :hammerhead: :facepalm

[mentallooser]

Yes Centers are weak. It's been said by almost everyone for awhile now. What's the point?

[Nezty]

So where's it end? Put Stockton, hell Magic, on the Bocats, do they even make the playoffs in this PG crop that's the best that basketball's ever seen?


This is getting out of topic. Wouldn't Stockton just be another Steve Nash? Could Magic dominate with a team of scrubs? A Center and a Point Gaurd have different impacts. That comparison is like comparing an apple and an orange.

[Dwade305]

Ive always seen Roy Hibbert as nothing more than Luc Longley. Longley would be an upper echelon center had he played today.
Yea and Kukoc will be top 10 player right:roll: :sleeping

[SCdac]

Center is so weak nowadays players who traditionally play PF (Duncan, Garnett, Bosh, etc) are pushed to the 5. Even Horford should probably be a 4 but he plays center. Definitely a weak era for big, but I partly blame the growing "stretch 4" fad of the last 4-6 years.

[La Frescobaldi]

The point of it was to show how weak Centers are. You can put Shaq on the Bobcats and they would win simply because there is no Center that could contain Shaq. Only a handful of Centers would play decent D on him.

The Bobcats are not winning because they have Shaq. Not happening. That's not just flawed reasoning, that's broke right in two reasoning.

[La Frescobaldi]

They aren't strange though. Blocks are great, obviously, they're just REALLY overrated, people have got to stop trying to quantify defense, you just can't. People that determine a player's defensive value based on nothing but blocks and steals are frankly just ignorant. Watch the games and digest them, look for the shots that aren't even attempted because of guys like Hibbert. Watch how Hibbert's rim protection enables Indy's' defense by almost never having to help in the paint.

But the pick and roll! they say. Fine, that's a weakness. But pick a weakness for a big defensively, you want a dude that denies everything at the rim, or a guy that comes out and hedges too hard just to get blow by? You wanna try and win by shooting 15 foot pull ups all day? Cool, do it, a few guys can. Most can't, those two points aren't worth more than the two points they get at the rim much more effectively. It's just common sense. If you can beat the scheme then do it, but the vast majority of teams can't.

yeah. you said it better than i did :cheers:

[chips93]

lebron, for pretty much the first time in his career, had to start shooting floaters to score on indiana, when hibbert was in the game. the heat still won, and lebron was still effective, but it says alot about your defense when you can force the best player on the planet, to have to take a pretty rough shot, pretty consistently.

hibbert forced lebron to change his game significantly, not a lot of defenders can say that.

[Myth]

wilt played against skinny short white guys, put shaq in the 60s he would average 80ppg and 50 rpg

You have a lot of faith in Shaq's endurance.

[Doctor Rivers]

NumberSix

is a tool

[Nezty]

The Bobcats are not winning because they have Shaq. Not happening. That's not just flawed reasoning, that's broke right in two reasoning.


Why not, they could have a strong chance of going deep. Shaq would dominate any Center and when he gets doubled he would be kicking it out to Kemba and Gordon. That alone would be dangerous.

[Droid101]

Against the current Knicks, peak Shaq would average 35/15/4/4 easily.

Edit: I like Hibbert and think he is the key to Indy beating the Knicks and the Heat. His +/- numbers pretty much prove it over the past two playoffs. Him in the game means getting leads. Him sitting means losing them.

[iDunk]

Goofy ass mutha****a.