Wade Fans:Will You Ever Forgive Lebron For 2011 Finals?

[Vragrant]

The logical answer is yes, because of the battles with injuries Wade has faced over the last 2 seasons Lebron and a championship supporting cast, has allowed Wade to still add to his championship resume.

However.....and yet........the pungent stench of the 2011 Finals still lingers, haunting the dark enclaves of my memory. No matter how hard I try to drown it, it persists in bubbling up to the surface every time I see Wade grimacing, clutching his knee. Its an errant dunk here, a listless block attempt there, or a jumpshot that meekly falls off the front of the rim.

The 2011 Finals was the last time we saw Dwyane Wade as Dwyane Wade, as playoff Dwayne Wade, ....as FINALS Dwayne Wade and he could not wrest Finals MVP because Lebron's soul was demonized by fear.

It was the one last time Wade had of picking up a major accolade, (a huge accolade that could have moved him up significantly up the all time list), his last brush with individual glory, after a career of being overlooked and dare I say it, disrespected. A slew of all defensive/1st team NBA snubs would have been rectified.

Now we will never see it....again. That Wade is gone through a shifting of team dynamics/health/ and the damn near omnipotent shadow of Lebron.

It was the perfect finals for Wade to win. After the all the ridiculous BS Wade fans have had to put up for years about an alleged Stern rigged Finals, I really wanted Wade to put the final stake in the heart of that argument by destroying Dallas again en route to yet another legendary performance. The stage was set.....it was perfect. Now that I think back....almost too perfect.

I grudgingly forgive Lebron, but will never forget.

[DaSeba5]

Yes. I forgave LeBron. Especially since he redeemed himself, and is on his way to another title. If he didn't win last year, then I would have probably started to doubt LeBron would ever win like a lot of people did.

It hurts, but it's in the past. If you would have told me we would win the East after the season before that, I would have taken that in a heart beat.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Hmm. Lebron performed poorly so there's not much point in harping over that. But Wade still could have performed better in the clutch, which is something the whole team had a problem with. Particularly, in game 4 when he missed the final free throw and fumbled the inbound pass. And he didn't play all that well in game 6.

But yeah, it would have been nice if Wade won that Finals MVP.

[dannysc305]

U guys think lebron sabotaged wade? Would he squander the opportunity to win his first ring just because wade overshadowed him? Sort of like that meme of lebrons reaction wheb wade won 2010 asg mvp and instead of clapping like everyone else he was in the corner all salty lookin n shit?LeBron kind of strikes me as a selfish two faced backstabbing disloyal person that does a great job vieling it. Im not too sure if lebron genuinely loves wade like a brother or if he over exxagerates it to stay on wades good side because he knows he needs a legit sidekick...idk but as a true lre lebron era heat fan it wouldnt surprise me one bit if he turns his back on declining wade and joins some other supreme talent im kinda bracing myself for it actually

[aburre21]

Bron pretty much had the same stats against the Mavs that Wade had against the Bulls in 2011...one series the Heat managed to win, the other they didn't

[DMV2]

Hmm. Lebron performed poorly so there's not much point in harping over that. But Wade still could have performed better in the clutch, which is something the whole team had a problem with. Particularly, in game 4 when he missed the final free throw and fumbled the inbound pass. And he didn't play all that well in game 6.

But yeah, it would have been nice if Wade won that Finals MVP.
He got hurt in the 3rd quarter of Game 5.

By the way, Game 4 was 100% LeBron's fault. 8 fcking points!!!!! :facepalm
Wade could have missed 4 straight free throws and fumbled three straight possessions in that game and it would still have been LeBron's fault.

Wade was on his way to another All-Time great Finals performance and LeBron screwed him.

[SamuraiSWISH]

That 2011 Finals is a skid mark on LeBron, Wade's and the Miami Heat's "Big Three" era forever. No matter how dominant they get, or how high Bron ascends the all-time ranks, or how much Wade slips from people's consciousness of the player he used to be. I will always remember, and it will always affect all of their legacies in my book.

I'm of the mind LeBron deliberately gave up that season because Wade took the Finals by the horns and was making it his show. LeBron knew the "Pippen" narrative would be there if he didn't win his first ring as the definitive best player on the team. It's sad, it's pathetic.

Wade was balling that series, hell overall he was their best player that entire season and post season. He would be sitting on 2x FMVP and about to be his 4th ring this season if LeBron didn't throw the series. That's quite the resume right there. Wade prior to his hip flexor was incredibly clutch and dominant during that series. From the 2nd half of game 1 on he was the Heat's best player by a LARGE margin.

[Frozen1]

Wade got hurt in game 5, missed almost 2 quarters, and still finished with more points than lebron.

Lebron was a disgrace in the nba finals, and that 8 point performance on a pivotal game 4(miami would go up 3-1), was the biggest choke in professional sports history.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

He got hurt in the 3rd quarter of Game 5.

By the way, Game 4 was 100% LeBron's fault. 8 fcking points!!!!! :facepalm
Wade could have missed 4 straight free throws and fumbled three straight possessions in that game and it would still have been LeBron's fault.

Wade was on his way to another All-Time great Finals performance and LeBron screwed him.

I know. I already said Lebron played terrible. It's just that the game was still within reach.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Bron pretty much had the same stats against the Mavs that Wade had against the Bulls in 2011...one series the Heat managed to win, the other they didn't
Context, not box scores clowns ...

Difference being Wade had a number of clutch defensive plays and shot that he hit in the final minutes of close games against the Bulls, even though he didn't play well for much of the series.

Most notably the 3 point play plus the foul he hit on the road in Chicago to change the entire momentum of the game into the Heat's favor. Shortly after that it seemed LeBron finally had the confidence to hit some shots.

You know ... after Wade made the game changing plays.

[Young X]

I'm a Wade fan who roots against the Heat and was happy they lost so :confusedshrug:

On one hand I was happy the Heat lost

On the other hand I lost respect for LeSabotage

[PJR]

Eh, I find it pretty silly hold a grudge over that. A Finals MVP in that series wasn't going to elevate Wade's 'legacy' that much IMO. It's all about context. For instance, that run would still pale in comparison to Wade's 2006 title run, due to the circumstances. Wade was consistently exceptional all through-out that post-season, and was the undisputed best player on the team thru the entire season. That wouldn't have been the case with the 2011 run.

People are too obsessed with individual legacies. A great player is a great player. Wade's going Springfield on the first ballot, when he retires. As a multiple champion at that.

And at the end of the day, No one will ever take away Wade's 2006 run. That's entrenched in NBA history, FOREVER.

This eras Heat team is LeBron's, and rightfully so. I'm just grateful that both of these players true peak years came in Miami Heat uniforms. :applause:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Wade got hurt in game 5, missed almost 2 quarters, and still finished with more points than lebron.

Lebron was a disgrace in the nba finals, and that 8 point performance on a pivotal game 4(miami would go up 3-1), was the biggest choke in professional sports history.

His game 4 was terrible but he actually played decent in game 5.

[keep-itreal]

Yes. I forgave LeBron. Especially since he redeemed himself, and is on his way to another title. If he didn't win last year, then I would have probably started to doubt LeBron would ever win like a lot of people did.

It hurts, but it's in the past. If you would have told me we would win the East after the season before that, I would have taken that in a heart beat.

lol, why do you care?

You're a lebron fan, not a heat fan.

[pauk]

Did you even watch the series? Wade wasnt able to deliver in the clutch either / close out games enough and had some very bad games to... Wade led them in PPG but that doesnt mean he didnt underperform, he had 3 games where he performed worse than Lebron overall and his Game 5 & especially Game 6 was horrible... it all got overshadowed/forgotten by everybody talking about Lebron underperforming, Lebron didnt even seem to try and perform, its not like he shot bad or something... his 18 ppg was the exact result of taking a backseat to Wade and Wade just wasnt able to deliver enough....

Wades/Lebrons decisions cost them the Finals, that year they had chemistry issues and offense was basically "my turn your turn", they figured out very accurately who was gona take the backseat next year in order for them to succeed.... and look what happened... and will happen again...

The only way they were gona win that 11 Finals is if Lebron didnt take that backseat to Wade and performed up to his standards (taking more shots than he did is a good start, he averaged only 14 FGA), which means no FMVP for Wade anyways...

[3LiftHeatCurse]

I swear to you, I seriously considered crazy conspiracy theories, like LeBron was involved in gambling and intentionally tanked due to it.

It was the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. LeBron wasn't going down fighting, he was just "there".

I forgive him obviously, but it's true that it hurts to see Wade be snubbed for so long. That 2009 year should have been his MVP, and the all D team snubs in favor of overrated players like Kobe winning it on name alone......just sad.

But on top of all this, the refs rigged the 2011 Finals for the Mavs. That much is fact.

So what. Real Wade/Heat fans have been fighting the good fight for years. We know that Prime Wade is a better basketball/team player than Prime Kobe. There was a time, in Wade's prime, when we knew he was better than LeBron too. Now, Wade is older so that's not the case anymore.

Also, Wade is the man responsible for all of our success. Without Wade, Miami is still a mid-tier organization with 0 rings and we would still be suffering fans. Wade's amazing rookie season + playoffs, especially that shot on Baron Davis game winner.... that right there IMPRESSED Shaquille O'Neal, which made Shaq want to come to Miami when the Lakers were in the midst of their drama. Bam, Miami becomes a title contender, shoulda won it in 2005, but wins it all in 2006. Wade. Then fast forward, and once again, Wade brings in talent to play with him, this time Bron and Bosh.

I love Wade, he is tied for the best thing to ever happen to the Miami Heat... tied with Riles and Zo.

That's a'ight. As long as Wade retires in a Heat uniform, and he keeps up rackin the chips with Bron and Bosh, I'm good.

[SamuraiSWISH]

PJR,

You don't think after the 2013 season that a resume of:

2x FMVP
4x Championships

Isn't significantly greater than:

FMVP
3x Championships

???

How many players have 4x championship rings along with at least 2x FMVPs hardware trophies?

[Raymone]

Was that a typo? Because 2011 was entirely Wade's fault.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Context, not box scores clowns ...

Difference being Wade had a number of clutch defensive plays and shot that he hit in the final minutes of close games against the Bulls, even though he didn't play well for much of the series.

Most notably the 3 point play plus the foul he hit on the road in Chicago to change the entire momentum of the game into the Heat's favor. Shortly after that it seemed LeBron finally had the confidence to hit some shots.

You know ... after Wade made the game changing plays.

That was game 5. He didn't play all that well in game 3 and 4.

It's almost kind of pathetic how much you're trying to degrade Lebron's performance in the Bulls series.

[tmacattack33]

Wtf...if Lebron never went to Miami, there was no way Miami was getting past Boston and Chicago that year.

And they'd probably even have had problems in Round 1 getting past Atlanta or Orlando.



If you thought about that for a second, that coulda saved you from writing a pointless essay. But hey, that was a slightly entertaining read i guess.

[Frozen1]

Did you even watch the series? Wade wasnt able to deliver in the clutch either / close out games enough and had some very bad games to... Wade led them in PPG but that doesnt mean he didnt underperform, he had 3 games where he performed worse than Lebron overall and his Game 5 & especially Game 6 was horrible... it all got overshadowed/forgotten by everybody talking about Lebron underperforming, Lebron didnt even seem to try and perform, its not like he shot bad or something... his 18 ppg was the exact result of taking a backseat to Wade and Wade just wasnt able to deliver eventually....

Wades/Lebrons decisions cost them the Finals, they figured out very accurately who was gona take the backseat next year in order for them to succeed.... and look what happened... and will happen again...

The only way they were gona win that 11 Finals is if Lebron didnt take that backseat to Wade and performed up to his standards (taking more shots than he did is a good start, he averaged only 14 FGA), which means no FMVP for Wade anyways...

The only game Wade played worse than lebron was game 6, and he was hurt. Lebron choked and period, game 4 sums it all.

And if i take your logic, and say lebron took the backseat for wade in 2011, i must say that the injured second fiddle wade, on only one good knee, gave a much better contribution to the heat than a prime "second fiddle" lebron james.

[dannysc305]

U guys think lebron sabotaged wade? Would he squander the opportunity to win his first ring just because wade overshadowed him? Sort of like that meme of lebrons reaction wheb wade won 2010 asg mvp and instead of clapping like everyone else he was in the corner all salty lookin n shit?LeBron kind of strikes me as a selfish two faced backstabbing disloyal person that does a great job vieling it. Im not too sure if lebron genuinely loves wade like a brother or if he over exxagerates it to stay on wades good side because he knows he needs a legit sidekick...idk but as a true lre lebron era heat fan it wouldnt surprise me one bit if he turns his back on declining wade and joins some other supreme talent im kinda bracing myself for it actually

[SamuraiSWISH]

his 18 ppg was the exact result of taking a backseat to Wade and Wade just wasnt able to deliver enough....
You essentially just said the 2011 Finals loss was all on Wade.

Do you have LeBron's face tattooed on your shaft or something? You can't be serious even insinuating this.

2011 Finals loss was all on LeBron detaching himself ala the 2010 Cleveland Cavaliers playoffs, pouting, and being invisible on the court every game. And being a total non factor in crunch time.

Wade performed very well down the stretch for much of those games. Hell, I remember him blocking a Tyson Chandler dunk straight up.

Oh, revisionist history from absolutely disturbed LeBron stans. I don't know if you saw the same live game telecasts in Croatia that we all saw, pauk.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

The only game Wade played worse than lebron was game 6, and he was hurt. Lebron choked and period, game 4 sums it all.

And if i take your logic, and say lebron took the backseat for wade in 2011, i must say that the injured second fiddle wade, on only one good knee, gave a much better contribution to the heat than a prime "second fiddle" lebron james.

Lebron played better in game 1 and 6. Other than that, Wade was better.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Lebron played better in game 1 and 6. Other than that, Wade was better.
Game 1 is arguable. Wade was actually better in the 2nd half.

[DMV2]

You essentially just said the 2011 Finals loss was all on Wade.

Do you have LeBron's face tattooed on your shaft or something? You can't be serious even insinuating this.

2011 Finals loss was all on LeBron detaching himself ala the 2010 Cleveland Cavaliers playoffs, pouting, and being invisible on the court every game. And being a total non factor in crunch time.

Wade performed very well down the stretch for much of those games. Hell, I remember him blocking a Tyson Chandler dunk straight up.

Oh, revisionist history from absolutely disturbed LeBron stans. I don't know if you saw the same live game telecasts in Croatia that we all saw, pauk.
If Pauk's two thousand words essay wasn't embarrassing enough. Look at this: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230174

[3LiftHeatCurse]

U guys think lebron sabotaged wade? Would he squander the opportunity to win his first ring just because wade overshadowed him? Sort of like that meme of lebrons reaction wheb wade won 2010 asg mvp and instead of clapping like everyone else he was in the corner all salty lookin n shit?LeBron kind of strikes me as a selfish two faced backstabbing disloyal person that does a great job vieling it. Im not too sure if lebron genuinely loves wade like a brother or if he over exxagerates it to stay on wades good side because he knows he needs a legit sidekick...idk but as a true lre lebron era heat fan it wouldnt surprise me one bit if he turns his back on declining wade and joins some other supreme talent im kinda bracing myself for it actually

Before The Decision, I remember hearing reports down here in Miami that Wade's family and friends did NOT want LeBron to come to Miami. They thought LeBron was going to come in here and "swoop" away what Wade has here with Micky Arison/Pat Riley and the Heat organization. They wanted him to roll with Bosh and have Riley finish building around them 2.


I never thought anything of it. But I do think it's weird and bizarre how LBJ vanished. It wasn't even like the Mavs were doing a good job on defense... they had Jason Kidd guarding him sometimes and Jason Terry... smaller defenders......way smaller...... though, in 2011, LBJ had not worked on developing his post game at all. During the 2012 championship run, you saw LBJ go to his post game moves a lot with great success.... something he simply didn't have in 2011. I remember after the 2011 Finals, Riles was like "Lebron you gotta get a go-to move, brah" and LBJ added the post game....


As far as LBJ acting shady.... he did try to get Spo fired and was bumping Spo, remember "Bumpgate"..... honestly, the Cavaliers did a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE job at helping LeBron James grow up into a respectable man. They basically spoiled him and let him do anything he wanted...... which is why 2011 LBJ still had bad habits he had to work on... like the pre-mature celebrations in the 2011 Finals trying to shadowbox Wade when the Heat went up 15 pts in the 4th quarter with only 7 mins left in the game.....

LBJ coming to Miami, under the tutelage and discipline of Pat Riley, Arison, and all these guys, it was the best thing for LeBron to grow as a man and become a better human being.

[creepingdeath]

It's as much Wade's fault as it is Lebron. Dallas' gameplan completely revolved around stopping Lebron, so, naturally, Wade should have stepped up more than he did.

[PJR]

PJR,

You don't think after the 2013 season that a resume of:

2x FMVP
4x Championships

Isn't significantly greater than:

FMVP
3x Championships

???

How many players have 4x championship rings along with at least 2x FMVPs hardware trophies?

It would've looked nice, certainly. But it's all about context, though. Accolades on paper don't always tell the whole story.

James Worthy is a 3x Champion, with a Finals MVP, but that doesn't mean he's on Bird's level.

Plus I feel like Wade would still be criminally underrated regardless.

[SamuraiSWISH]

If Pauk's two thousand words essay wasn't embarrassing enough. Look at this: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230174
That post is the essence of what actually probably went through LeBron's mind. And why he visibly was so nonchalant on such a big stage, for all the marbles.

:biggums:

Wait, does that mean pauk is either Savanna James, Gloria James, or LeBron himself?

It all makes sense now. The fierce and disturbing defense of LeBron, even when he's clearly in the wrong, can only be attributed to this.

[K Xerxes]

It's funny, because I actually think the '11 catastrophe is the best thing that ever happened to LeBron. He developed and refined his game because he lost - particularly his non existent post game which he utilised to a devastating effect against the Celtics and Thunder especially. Had he taken a backseat to Wade and won '11, I don't believe we would be seeing this LeBron. At least not until later on in his career possibly.

You reach your lowest point before you experience the greatest change.

[Poochymama]

Did you even watch the series? Wade wasnt able to deliver in the clutch either / close out games enough and had some very bad games to... Wade led them in PPG but that doesnt mean he didnt underperform, he had 3 games where he performed worse than Lebron overall and his Game 5 & especially Game 6 was horrible... it all got overshadowed/forgotten by everybody talking about Lebron underperforming, Lebron didnt even seem to try and perform, its not like he shot bad or something... his 18 ppg was the exact result of taking a backseat to Wade and Wade just wasnt able to deliver enough....

Wades/Lebrons decisions cost them the Finals, that year they had chemistry issues and offense was basically "my turn your turn", they figured out very accurately who was gona take the backseat next year in order for them to succeed.... and look what happened... and will happen again...

The only way they were gona win that 11 Finals is if Lebron didnt take that backseat to Wade and performed up to his standards (taking more shots than he did is a good start, he averaged only 14 FGA), which means no FMVP for Wade anyways...

What a load of crap. You'll defend lebron/tear down Lebron's teammates at all costs. You're the Ne 1 of Lebron fans.

[WayOfWade]

I forgave LeBron. Losing in the finals, while rough, was almost necessary. It pushed LeBron to always improve in every aspect of his game. He now has a post game, a jumpshot, he's actually clutch now, and he is a true leader now. Would winning it all in 2011 have been nice? Yeah, but it wouldn't help prepare the Heat for the next few years. It's not about if you get knocked down, it's if you choose to get back up.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

**** i hate writing long posts with info and nobody cares

off to do something else

[guy]

Wtf...if Lebron never went to Miami, there was no way Miami was getting past Boston and Chicago that year.

And they'd probably even have had problems in Round 1 getting past Atlanta or Orlando.



If you thought about that for a second, that coulda saved you from writing a pointless essay. But hey, that was a slightly entertaining read i guess.

Arguments like this are ridiculous. You're basically saying all star players should be immune to criticism. I could say T-Mac's teams don't even make the playoffs without him so he shouldn't get criticized for not getting out the first round. Stupid argument.

[DMV2]

It would've looked nice, certainly. But it's all about context, though. Accolades on paper don't always tell the whole story.

James Worthy is a 3x Champion, with a Finals MVP, but that doesn't mean he's on Bird's level.

Plus I feel like Wade would still be criminally underrated regardless.
That's the thing though. A 2011 Finals MVP reward wouldn't have just been on a little note on his resume. He was giving another all-time GOAT Finals performance through the first 4 games, and the first half of the Game 5 too.

He could have rivaled Jordan and Shaq in the subject of GOAT Finals performers. That would have been a great legacy for Wade.

[willds09]

wade fans needs to thank david stern for rigging tha 2012 finals in tha first place.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan / Shaq / West = GOAT Finals Performers

[guy]

That's the thing though. A 2011 Finals MVP reward wouldn't have just been on a little note on his resume. He was giving another all-time GOAT Finals performance through the first 4 games, and the first half of the Game 5 too.

He could have rivaled Jordan and Shaq in the subject of GOAT Finals performers. That would have been a great legacy for Wade.

He wouldn't rival them. That's a bit much. Maybe a level below them.

Imagine Wade with 2 Finals MVPs and then a few more titles after that with Lebron as the FMVP. At least resume wise, Kobe vs Wade wouldn't sound like such a one-sided argument.

[pauk]

I swear to you, I seriously considered crazy conspiracy theories, like LeBron was involved in gambling and intentionally tanked due to it.

It was the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. LeBron wasn't going down fighting, he was just "there".


What Lebron did in 2011 Finals is exactly what Larry Bird did in the 1981 Finals playing with Cedric Maxwell (Bird was even more passive)....

He took a backseat to Wade, he let him run the show, thats exactly what it looked like and happened...

How else do you explain him averaging only 14 FGA, he never shot that little in a span of 4-6 games in his life, especially not in the playoffs, its not like he shot bad either (48%FG)... he was just being way to unselfish for his own good... defering... to Wade... there is no other rational explanation....

But what people seem to always ignore/forget is why Lebron didnt either mind doing this..... because Miami were actually doing pretty good, the ONLY problem was the 4th quarter/clutch where he nor Wade were able to deliver enough.... they could have won the Championship with Wade being the FMVP if only they could stepped up enough when it really mattered.....


What a load of crap. You'll defend lebron/tear down Lebron's teammates at all costs. You're the Ne 1 of Lebron fans.

How did i defend him exactly? Tell me? Just because i am not birdbrained enough to say "He choked!" "He was horrible!"? Yes he underperformed, but all i am talking about is the REASON to why/how that happened....

[Young X]

Wades/Lebrons decisions cost them the Finals, that year they had chemistry issues and offense was basically "my turn your turn", they figured out very accurately who was gona take the backseat next year in order for them to succeed.... and look what happened... and will happen again...

The only way they were gona win that 11 Finals is if Lebron didnt take that backseat to Wade and performed up to his standards (taking more shots than he did is a good start, he averaged only 14 FGA), which means no FMVP for Wade anyways...
Why did Wade take more shots per game in the 2012 Finals than he did in 2011 Finals?

[jlip]

A bigger question IMO is which would have provided more ammunition for Lebron "haters/ critics"...Lebron winning a title with Wade as the FMVP or him playing the way horrible way he actually did in the '11 Finals? Could you imagine all of the "Lebron rode Wade's coattails." or "Lebron is nothing but a sidekick." threads if the Heat had won, and Wade had clearly been the better performer winning the FMVP?

[Raymone]

2011 Finals (Wade ball hogging and costing us a title)

LeBron: 15 FGA/G
Wade: 18 FGA/G

2012 Finals (Wade allowing LeBron to carry him)

LeBron: 21.6 FGA/G
Wade: 18.4 FGA/G

[305Baller]

:kobe:

It wasn't that big of a deal. Wade gave us the best Finals performance in NBA history...everything else is just icing on the cake.

[PJR]

A bigger question IMO is which would have provided more ammunition for Lebron "haters/ critics"...Lebron winning a title with Wade as the FMVP or him playing the way horrible way he actually did in the '11 Finals? Could you imagine all of the "Lebron rode Wade's coattails." or "Lebron is nothing but a sidekick." threads if the Heat had won, and Wade had clearly been the better performer winning the FMVP?

Yes, this would've been pure foolishness as well.

I believe everything happened for the best for all parties. Finals loss and all. A hierarchy was established, and the Heat look to be on a potential historic run.

[GrapeApe]

I'm a huge Wade fan but I'm a Heat fan first and foremost. I couldn't care less about the individual glory bullshit. Nobody loses or wins a series by themself. In the '11 finals the Heat were outplayed and beaten as a team. The entire team deserves blame, not just LeBron. They won a title last year as a team. The entire team deserves credit, not just LeBron. It works both ways. I get that the NBA is a player driven league but the fanboy star worship is out of control. End rant.

[TheNaturalWR]

Eh, I find it pretty silly hold a grudge over that. A Finals MVP in that series wasn't going to elevate Wade's 'legacy' that much IMO. It's all about context. For instance, that run would still pale in comparison to Wade's 2006 title run, due to the circumstances. Wade was consistently exceptional all through-out that post-season, and was the undisputed best player on the team thru the entire season. That wouldn't have been the case with the 2011 run.

People are too obsessed with individual legacies. A great player is a great player. Wade's going Springfield on the first ballot, when he retires. As a multiple champion at that.

And at the end of the day, No one will ever take away Wade's 2006 run. That's entrenched in NBA history, FOREVER.

This eras Heat team is LeBron's, and rightfully so. I'm just grateful that both of these players true peak years came in Miami Heat uniforms. :applause:

Wade would be elevated to top 15 with that Finals MVP....Wade was the best player on the Heat in 2011, anyone who watched the Heat knew that. The regular season was ridiculously close but the post-season was a different story. Wade might of struggled against the Bulls in 2011 but he came up HUGE down the stretch during crunch time and especially in the closeout game. Can't say the same for LeBron who straight up disappeared.

[guy]

A bigger question IMO is which would have provided more ammunition for Lebron "haters/ critics"...Lebron winning a title with Wade as the FMVP or him playing the way horrible way he actually did in the '11 Finals? Could you imagine all of the "Lebron rode Wade's coattails." or "Lebron is nothing but a sidekick." threads if the Heat had won, and Wade had clearly been the better performer winning the FMVP?

If it was the former, people wouldn't care about it as long as Lebron still did what he did in 2012.

[PJR]

I'm a huge Wade fan but I'm a Heat fan first and foremost. I couldn't care less about the individual glory bullshit. Nobody loses or wins a series by themself. In the '11 finals the Heat were outplayed and beaten as a team. The entire team deserves blame, not just LeBron. They won a title last year as a team. The entire team deserves credit, not just LeBron. It works both ways. I get that the NBA is a player driven league but the fanboy star worship is out of control. End rant.

Well said.

[Young X]

2011 Finals (Lebron playing like a p*ssy)

LeBron: 15 FGA/G
Wade: 18 FGA/G

2012 Finals (Lebron not playing like a p*ssy)

LeBron: 21.6 FGA/G
Wade: 18.4 FGA/G
Fixed.
Wade took the SAME AMOUNT OF SHOTS in both series.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wade gave us the best Finals performance in NBA history...everything else is just icing on the cake.
Stop.

He played well, but it's obscured by the absurd amount of foul calls. Regardless if he played well or not, you can't call it THE best when people had such a problem with terrible officiating.

MJ / Shaq / West ... and then Wade.

[305Baller]

Stop.

He played well, but it's obscured by the absurd amount of foul calls. Regardless if he played well or not, you can't call it THE best when people had such a problem with terrible officiating.

MJ / Shaq / West ... and then Wade.

Nope. Disagree 100%.

Best. ALL. TIME.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Nope. Disagree 100%.

Best. ALL. TIME.
And people with a brain, who watched the absurd officiating all season (2006) ... especially ones not from Miami and Heat homers ... come to a climax in the Finals when it was a whistle show of epic proportions. Touch foul calls galore would STRONGLY disagree with you. Wade won MIA the series, no doubt. Given the shady officiating, it isn't even top five all-time Finals performances.

Best Finals performances should be about BUCKETS ... not how many times you got to the foul line, en route to leading your team back into a series. It's anti climactic, and lends to questionable officiating. The 2006 was terribly officiated, and the Finals magnified it and took it to another level of ridiculousness.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Wade would be elevated to top 15 with that Finals MVP....Wade was the best player on the Heat in 2011, anyone who watched the Heat knew that. The regular season was ridiculously close but the post-season was a different story. Wade might of struggled against the Bulls in 2011 but he came up HUGE down the stretch during crunch time and especially in the closeout game. Can't say the same for LeBron who straight up disappeared.

huh? Lebron played far better than Wade in the Bulls series, and had just as much impact in closing out game 5, if not more. He stank it up in the Finals but he was great in the previous three series. From what I remember, they had pretty much identical stats heading into the Finals.

[305Baller]

And people with a brain, who watched the absurd officiating all season (2006) ... especially ones not from Miami and Heat homers ... come to a climax in the Finals when it was a whistle show of epic proportions. Touch foul calls galore would STRONGLY disagree with you. Wade won MIA the series, no doubt. Given the shady officiating, it isn't even top five all-time Finals performances.

Best Finals performances should be about BUCKETS ... not how many times you got to the foul line, en route to leading your team back into a series. It's anti climactic, and lends to questionable officiating. The 2006 was terribly officiated, and the Finals magnified it and took it to another level of ridiculousness.

Nope, my brain is plenty good. Your negativity just blinds you.
That conspiracy is one of the most over-hyped in league history.

Whistles blew but that was because Dallas could not handle Wade's speed. No one could at that time, really.

:coleman:

[pmj]

Wade's 2011 series is so overrated. He was efficient but basically had his averages, nothing special and nothing in the clutch, including him failing many times.

[plowking]

Did you even watch the series? Wade wasnt able to deliver in the clutch either / close out games enough and had some very bad games to... Wade led them in PPG but that doesnt mean he didnt underperform, he had 3 games where he performed worse than Lebron overall and his Game 5 & especially Game 6 was horrible... it all got overshadowed/forgotten by everybody talking about Lebron underperforming, Lebron didnt even seem to try and perform, its not like he shot bad or something... his 18 ppg was the exact result of taking a backseat to Wade and Wade just wasnt able to deliver enough....

Wades/Lebrons decisions cost them the Finals, that year they had chemistry issues and offense was basically "my turn your turn", they figured out very accurately who was gona take the backseat next year in order for them to succeed.... and look what happened... and will happen again...

The only way they were gona win that 11 Finals is if Lebron didnt take that backseat to Wade and performed up to his standards (taking more shots than he did is a good start, he averaged only 14 FGA), which means no FMVP for Wade anyways...

F*cking idiot. Pathetic. You probably make excuses for yourself, blaming others on your short comings too.

Idiot. People get dumber reading the shit you write.

[BallsOut]

Did you even watch the series? Wade wasnt able to deliver in the clutch either / close out games enough and had some very bad games to... Wade led them in PPG but that doesnt mean he didnt underperform, he had 3 games where he performed worse than Lebron overall and his Game 5 & especially Game 6 was horrible... it all got overshadowed/forgotten by everybody talking about Lebron underperforming, Lebron didnt even seem to try and perform, its not like he shot bad or something... his 18 ppg was the exact result of taking a backseat to Wade and Wade just wasnt able to deliver enough....

Wades/Lebrons decisions cost them the Finals, that year they had chemistry issues and offense was basically "my turn your turn", they figured out very accurately who was gona take the backseat next year in order for them to succeed.... and look what happened... and will happen again...

The only way they were gona win that 11 Finals is if Lebron didnt take that backseat to Wade and performed up to his standards (taking more shots than he did is a good start, he averaged only 14 FGA), which means no FMVP for Wade anyways...

I am by no means a Wade fan, but you need to pull your head out of your ass and quit revising history. Wade was far and away the best player in the 2011 Finals series between the Mavs and Heat. If it weren't for Lebron's disappearing act, he'd have 2 Finals MVPs by now.

[305Baller]

I actually agree with the notion that Wade was not clutch in that series.

Also that white dude from Dallas went in and Charlie Horsed him pretty badly.

He wasnt the same after that in that series.

(Finass 2011_)

[KG215]

Did you even watch the series? Wade wasnt able to deliver in the clutch either / close out games enough and had some very bad games to... Wade led them in PPG but that doesnt mean he didnt underperform, he had 3 games where he performed worse than Lebron overall and his Game 5 & especially Game 6 was horrible... it all got overshadowed/forgotten by everybody talking about Lebron underperforming, Lebron didnt even seem to try and perform, its not like he shot bad or something... his 18 ppg was the exact result of taking a backseat to Wade and Wade just wasnt able to deliver enough....

Wades/Lebrons decisions cost them the Finals, that year they had chemistry issues and offense was basically "my turn your turn", they figured out very accurately who was gona take the backseat next year in order for them to succeed.... and look what happened... and will happen again...

The only way they were gona win that 11 Finals is if Lebron didnt take that backseat to Wade and performed up to his standards (taking more shots than he did is a good start, he averaged only 14 FGA), which means no FMVP for Wade anyways...
It's sad what people can convince themselves of, regardless of how delusional and stupid it is.

[D-Wade316]

The logical answer is yes, because of the battles with injuries Wade has faced over the last 2 seasons Lebron and a championship supporting cast, has allowed Wade to still add to his championship resume.

However.....and yet........the pungent stench of the 2011 Finals still lingers, haunting the dark enclaves of my memory. No matter how hard I try to drown it, it persists in bubbling up to the surface every time I see Wade grimacing, clutching his knee. Its an errant dunk here, a listless block attempt there, or a jumpshot that meekly falls off the front of the rim.

The 2011 Finals was the last time we saw Dwyane Wade as Dwyane Wade, as playoff Dwayne Wade, ....as FINALS Dwayne Wade and he could not wrest Finals MVP because Lebron's soul was demonized by fear.

It was the one last time Wade had of picking up a major accolade, (a huge accolade that could have moved him up significantly up the all time list), his last brush with individual glory, after a career of being overlooked and dare I say it, disrespected. A slew of all defensive/1st team NBA snubs would have been rectified.

Now we will never see it....again. That Wade is gone through a shifting of team dynamics/health/ and the damn near omnipotent shadow of Lebron.

It was the perfect finals for Wade to win. After the all the ridiculous BS Wade fans have had to put up for years about an alleged Stern rigged Finals, I really wanted Wade to put the final stake in the heart of that argument by destroying Dallas again en route to yet another legendary performance. The stage was set.....it was perfect. Now that I think back....almost too perfect.

I grudgingly forgive Lebron, but will never forget.
^^^

[jrong]

Never. It should have been Wade's last moment of glory before he passed the baton. Two FMVPs would have beyond any doubt sealed his legacy because the list of players who have more than one is very exclusive.

Now I feel like Wade's legacy is (preposterously) still in doubt. In fact, it's like every season he has to mount a new defense of that legacy-- even though he has numbers that blow away some of the players who are considered all-time greats (and that's even without considering the statistical limiting factors on his averages such as injuries and star teammates), he has two championships, he has proved he could carry nothing teams to the playoffs, and has proven that he can win at an elite level with good teams.

In other words, he's passed every test there is for greatness, except getting the world to recognize his. Of course, that lack of recognition has translated into a far emptier awards shelf than he should have.

I would have happily seen Wade stand aside for James in 2012 if he could have gotten that final capstone. I was actually starting to become a LeBron fan in 2011. But, that series still burns like acid. Eight points, LeBron. Twelve would've done it. But, in Game 4, with the chance to take a 3-1 stranglehold, you gave us eight ****ing points..... And in Game 2, after Wade was sitting on 36 with 7:00 left and a 15 pt lead, you decided you were going to be the closer-- to the tune of 0-4, including an air-balled finger-roll. And after being hyped as the best defender in the NBA, you let everyone from Shawn Marion to Jason Terry to JJ Barea light you up all series long.

LeBron's presence has, in effect, taken away my second childhood. I never expected to experience the feelings again that I had as a kid watching Jordan, but when I discovered Wade, I experienced some of that once more. Wade obviously isn't Jordan, but I experienced the same sense of wonder watching him play and, yes, the same emotional reaction.

Maybe an adult shouldn't care about such things, but in case you haven't noticed, the world kind of sucks. Watching Wade was both a joy and an escape. It was appointment viewing for nine years. But, that's gone now.

I want this partnership over after 2014. LeBron has unfinished business in Cleveland, anyway. And I don't care what anybody thinks of the fact that this is what I want. I'm nine-parts Wade fan, one-part Heat fan. And I don't care what anyone thinks about that either.

[ripthekik]

this thread is so damn right and so much justice is being done.

Wade should have gotten FMVP, ending up with 2 FMVP, 4 rings by the end of this playoffs. That's a top 20 all time career for sure. Instead Lebron sabotaged it all :facepalm

he's salty.. he self-conscious, evidenced by his acknowledgement of his stats.. he knows what'll happen if he doesn't win FMVP, especially with all the attention from the media that year. It's definitely a huge reason why he choked.

and LMAO at pauk's post in this thread.. he serious!? :roll: :roll:

[itsGameTime]

Did you even watch the series? Wade wasnt able to deliver in the clutch either / close out games enough and had some very bad games to... Wade led them in PPG but that doesnt mean he didnt underperform, he had 3 games where he performed worse than Lebron overall and his Game 5 & especially Game 6 was horrible... it all got overshadowed/forgotten by everybody talking about Lebron underperforming, Lebron didnt even seem to try and perform, its not like he shot bad or something... his 18 ppg was the exact result of taking a backseat to Wade and Wade just wasnt able to deliver enough....

Wades/Lebrons decisions cost them the Finals, that year they had chemistry issues and offense was basically "my turn your turn", they figured out very accurately who was gona take the backseat next year in order for them to succeed.... and look what happened... and will happen again...

The only way they were gona win that 11 Finals is if Lebron didnt take that backseat to Wade and performed up to his standards (taking more shots than he did is a good start, he averaged only 14 FGA), which means no FMVP for Wade anyways...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You sir are ****ing pathetic. It's one thing to be a Lebron stan. It's a whole other thing to diminish what Wade, the best player in the 2011 finals, did in that series whilst Lebron quit.

Is it that hard to admit to yourself? Lebron simply quit. I imagine he didn't want to be regarded as Wade's Pippen, which is respectable. However, the way in which he chose to carry out that mindset was weak and backstabbing considering how much Wade had sacrificed for them to all get together in Miami. Your revisionist history is getting exposed again, pauk.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron in 11 Finals;

Worst performance by a superstar in NBA history in the Finals. End of story.

Even though the Mavs did everything to stop Lebron...everything...and I mean everything. He still was beyond bad and clearly choked.

I can actually understand the inept offense because Lebron never shoots jumpers unless he's hot and is so limited when he can't get to the rim...but it was his defense that actually killed the Heat.

That is where Lebron's epic collapse isn't given enough justice even to this day. He was putrid on offense...but equally bad defensively. He missed help side all the time. Got beat in ever situation imaginable...etc.

Worst performance in the finals by a superstar ever.

[TheBigVeto]

It was the perfect finals for Wade to win. After the all the ridiculous BS Wade fans have had to put up for years about an alleged Stern rigged Finals, I really wanted Wade to put the final stake in the heart of that argument by destroying Dallas again en route to yet another legendary performance.

LOL nikkapleaze, that 2006 finals was the worst rigged finals that did not involve the Lakers.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Lebron in 11 Finals;

Worst performance by a superstar in NBA history in the Finals. End of story.
Even though the Mavs did everything to stop Lebron...everything...and
I mean everything. He still was beyond bad and clearly choked.

I can actually understand the inept offense because Lebron never shoots jumpers unless he's hot and is so limited when he can't get to the rim...but it was his defense that actually killed the Heat.

That is where Lebron's epic collapse isn't given enough justice even to this day. He was putrid on offense...but equally bad defensively. He missed help side all the time. Got beat in ever situation imaginable...etc.

Worst performance in the finals by a superstar ever.
First of all, excellent post. And I totally agree. Especially with it being slept on with how LeBron's man defense got torn to shreds by Jason Terry and Shawn Marion. Yes his offense was putrid (8 points, really?!) but his defense was equally bad.

His off the ball / rotations / team defense were lazy (very uncharacteristic of LeBron as that is his greatest strength defensively) ... which is a dead give away that he wasn't even trying.

As for the bold ... do you still feel that way now in regards to LeBron's game? I thought he improved leaps and bounds in 2012, and even more so this year in 2013 given he has more of a post game, and a better more consistent mid range jumper / scoring game.

It's no coincidence he won and was finally successful and won a ring once he got an improved post game and mid range scoring arsenal. Just watch game 6 v.s. Boston, that was the only way to beat them. Mid range. It's why he struggled with them for so many years, why Kobe's long range game made him in efficient v.s. the Celtics, and why Wade was so successful. Mid range wins in the playoffs.

Teams don't let you get to the basket easily, and they chase and actually contest three pointers. Unlike the regular season.

[chazzy]

But on top of all this, the refs rigged the 2011 Finals for the Mavs. That much is fact.
Wait, what?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Never. It should have been Wade's last moment of glory before he passed the baton. Two FMVPs would have beyond any doubt sealed his legacy because the list of players who have more than one is very exclusive.

Now I feel like Wade's legacy is (preposterously) still in doubt. In fact, it's like every season he has to mount a new defense of that legacy-- even though he has numbers that blow away some of the players who are considered all-time greats (and that's even without considering the statistical limiting factors on his averages such as injuries and star teammates), he has two championships, he has proved he could carry nothing teams to the playoffs, and has proven that he can win at an elite level with good teams.

In other words, he's passed every test there is for greatness, except getting the world to recognize his. Of course, that lack of recognition has translated into a far emptier awards shelf than he should have.

I would have happily seen Wade stand aside for James in 2012 if he could have gotten that final capstone. I was actually starting to become a LeBron fan in 2011. But, that series still burns like acid. Eight points, LeBron. Twelve would've done it. But, in Game 4, with the chance to take a 3-1 stranglehold, you gave us eight ****ing points..... And in Game 2, after Wade was sitting on 36 with 7:00 left and a 15 pt lead, you decided you were going to be the closer-- to the tune of 0-4, including an air-balled finger-roll. And after being hyped as the best defender in the NBA, you let everyone from Shawn Marion to Jason Terry to JJ Barea light you up all series long.

LeBron's presence has, in effect, taken away my second childhood. I never expected to experience the feelings again that I had as a kid watching Jordan, but when I discovered Wade, I experienced some of that once more. Wade obviously isn't Jordan, but I experienced the same sense of wonder watching him play and, yes, the same emotional reaction.

Maybe an adult shouldn't care about such things, but in case you haven't noticed, the world kind of sucks. Watching Wade was both a joy and an escape. It was appointment viewing for nine years. But, that's gone now.

I want this partnership over after 2014. LeBron has unfinished business in Cleveland, anyway. And I don't care what anybody thinks of the fact that this is what I want. I'm nine-parts Wade fan, one-part Heat fan. And I don't care what anyone thinks about that either.
:biggums:

Dat Ether

[jrong]

It's funny, because I actually think the '11 catastrophe is the best thing that ever happened to LeBron. He developed and refined his game because he lost - particularly his non existent post game which he utilised to a devastating effect against the Celtics and Thunder especially. Had he taken a backseat to Wade and won '11, I don't believe we would be seeing this LeBron. At least not until later on in his career possibly.

You reach your lowest point before you experience the greatest change.

Well, that's lovely for Wade isn't it? I'm so glad that the fact that he ****ed up Wade's standing in history set LeBron on his path to greatness.

This is the single most nauseating aspect of the revisionism that has taken place after 2011. LeBron's failure was projected on to Wade, and over time, the narrative became that Wade had to "learn to humble himself" and let James lead in order for the team to grow into champions.

Bullshit. He needed a 5% better performance from LeBron. LeBron performing as well as Bosh would have done it, frankly. He needed LeBron to do for him what he did for LeBron in the Bulls series and, despite struggles, step up at the end of games, as Wade did in Games 3, 4 , and 5.

So in 2012, LeBron gets the redemption narrative, and Wade is forgotten yet again.

I've always thought that the James/Wade friendship was great for James and terrible for Wade. This goes to Wade's psychology as someone perpetually underrated. I always sensed that he wanted to prove he belonged on the same court with Bron/Melo and later Bron/Kobe. But, I never got the sense that he believed he could be better.

The practical effect of this, I beleive, was to provide James a psychological advantage over Wade when they were competitors. I would've rather seen Wade take the approach toward him that Magic and Bird had toward each other. Because, if Wade hadn't gotten hurt in the 05 ECFs and 07 season, he could've challenged James to become the player of their generation.

And, oh boy, now that they're teammates, it couldn't work out better for LBJ. Wade loves his boy so much that, on an individual level, he has sacrificed his goddamn legacy so that LeBron has a (completely undeserved) chance to be considered the GOAT.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Well, that's lovely for Wade isn't it? I'm so glad that the fact that he ****ed up Wade's standing in history set LeBron on his path to greatness.

This is the single most nauseating aspect of the revisionism that has taken place after 2011. LeBron's failure was projected on to Wade, and over time, the narrative became that Wade had to "learn to humble himself" and let James lead in order for the team to grow into champions.

Bullshit. He needed a 5% better performance from LeBron. LeBron performing as well as Bosh would have done it, frankly. He needed LeBron to do for him what he did for LeBron in the Bulls series and, despite struggles, step up at the end of games, as Wade did in Games 3, 4 , and 5.

So in 2012, LeBron gets the redemption narrative, and Wade is forgotten yet again.

I've always thought that the James/Wade friendship was great for James and trerrible for Wade. This goes to Wade's psychology as someone perpetually underrated. I always sensed that he wanted to prove he belonged on the same court with Bron/Melo and later Bron/Kobe. But, I never got the sense that he believed he could be better.

The practical effect of this, I beleive, was to provide James had a psychological advantage over Wade when they were competitors. I would've rather seen Wade toward him that Magic and Bird had toward each other. Because, if Wade hadn't gotten hurt in the 05 ECFs and 07 season, he could've challenged James to become the player of their generation.

And, oh boy, now that they're teammates, it couldn't work out better for LBJ. Wade loves his boy so much that, on an individual level, he has sacrificed his goddamn legacy so that LeBron has a (completely undeserved) chance to be considered the GOAT.
Mother of god. By far the best post I've ever seen regarding Wade and his symbiotic relationship with LeBron.

Eloquently worded, and I completely agree. I was a major fan of Wade prior to the move he pulled in 2010. Those last three paragraphs from you are gold.

Is Wade your favorite player of all-time, by the way?

[DMAVS41]

First of all, excellent post. And I totally agree. Especially with it being slept on with how LeBron's man defense got torn to shreds by Jason Terry and Shawn Marion. Yes his offense was putrid (8 points, really?!) but his defense was equally bad.

His off the ball / rotations / team defense were lazy (very uncharacteristic of LeBron as that is his greatest strength defensively) ... which is a dead give away that he wasn't even trying.

As for the bold ... do you still feel that way now in regards to LeBron's game? I thought he improved leaps and bounds in 2012, and even more so this year in 2013 given he has more of a post game, and a better more consistent mid range jumper / scoring game.

It's no coincidence he won and was finally successful and won a ring once he got an improved post game and mid range scoring arsenal. Just watch game 6 v.s. Boston, that was the only way to beat them. Mid range. It's why he struggled with them for so many years, why Kobe's long range game made him in efficient v.s. the Celtics, and why Wade was so successful. Mid range wins in the playoffs.

Teams don't let you get to the basket easily, and they chase and actually contest three pointers. Unlike the regular season.

He's improved, but it is still there and I think it will be really interesting to see how that weakness comes out against the Pacers and potentially the Grizzlies.

Those are not only the two best defensive teams in my opinion, but just a nightmare for Wade and Lebron.

It will be really interesting to see how Lebron reacts by having to take jumpers a lot and if he can still remain aggressive on both ends while rightfully settling for longer shots.

Can't wait to see it.

[HeatFanSince88]

I swear to you, I seriously considered crazy conspiracy theories, like LeBron was involved in gambling and intentionally tanked due to it.

It was the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. LeBron wasn't going down fighting, he was just "there".

I thought something like this too. My thoery was LeBron had people threatening his family if he won or some shit. Was just weird how he stood there and didn't seem to care at all.

I think what really happened though was LeBron took the moment for granted. He thought his team was unbeatable after the Heat humiliated the Bulls. So in the Finals he wanted Wade to be "the man" and get his Finals MVP since in 2011 the Heat was still viewed as Wades team despite Bron being the best player.

He fixed his shit the next year though, and learned if Miami is going to win it all, hes gotta be the guy to get it done.

Also are there really people that are Wade fans, but not LeBron fans? This thread looks like the typical bunch of retards that do anything to degrade lebrons greatness. :oldlol:
Like any real heat fan is mad LeBron the best player in the world signed with the team. :oldlol:

[305Baller]

I thought something like this too. My thoery was LeBron had people threatening his family if he won or some shit. Was just weird how he stood there and didn't seem to care at all.

I think what really happened though was LeBron took the moment for granted. He thought his team was unbeatable after the Heat humiliated the Bulls. So in the Finals he wanted Wade to be "the man" and get his Finals MVP since in 2011 the Heat was still viewed as Wades team despite Bron being the best player.

He fixed his shit the next year though, and learned if Miami is going to win it all, hes gotta be the guy to get it done.

Also are there really people that are Wade fans, but not LeBron fans? This thread looks like the typical bunch of retards that do anything to degrade lebrons greatness. :oldlol:
Like any real heat fan is mad LeBron the best player in the world signed with the team. :oldlol:

this.

(icon of something)

[DMAVS41]

I thought something like this too. My thoery was LeBron had people threatening his family if he won or some shit. Was just weird how he stood there and didn't seem to care at all.

I think what really happened though was LeBron took the moment for granted. He thought his team was unbeatable after the Heat humiliated the Bulls. So in the Finals he wanted Wade to be "the man" and get his Finals MVP since in 2011 the Heat was still viewed as Wades team despite Bron being the best player.

He fixed his shit the next year though, and learned if Miami is going to win it all, hes gotta be the guy to get it done.

Also are there really people that are Wade fans, but not LeBron fans? :oldlol:
Like any real heat fan is mad LeBron the best player in the world signed with the team. :oldlol:

I'm more of a Wade fan than a Lebron fan. Easy to admit Lebron has been easily the better player since the 11 Finals. But Wade was the best player on the Heat in 11 in my opinion...and Wade's performance in the Finals breaks any tie there was previously.

What people are getting at is that Lebron was so bad that he actually cost his team (and Wade) the title. That is the issue. It's not like Lebron just played average or something.

He was so bad that people, to this day, still can't figure it out. He wasn't hurt. It was just him going ghost on both ends of the floor.

Again, I get why he struggled on offense. He was facing a great scheme and he clearly was shook by the pressure and his already inconsistent jumper went even more broke.

But it was his overall effort and energy and defense that made it the worst performance I've ever seen from a superstar I've ever seen on that stage.

[madmax]

It's funny, because I actually think the '11 catastrophe is the best thing that ever happened to LeBron. He developed and refined his game because he lost - particularly his non existent post game which he utilised to a devastating effect against the Celtics and Thunder especially. Had he taken a backseat to Wade and won '11, I don't believe we would be seeing this LeBron. At least not until later on in his career possibly.

You reach your lowest point before you experience the greatest change.

not to mention, Dirk was on absolute fire that season and Mavs played great team basketball too...funny how no credit is given to these guys for their stellar postseason run

[HeatFanSince88]

I'm more of a Wade fan than a Lebron fan. Easy to admit Lebron has been easily the better player since the 11 Finals. But Wade was the best player on the Heat in 11 in my opinion...and Wade's performance in the Finals breaks any tie there was previously.

What people are getting at is that Lebron was so bad that he actually cost his team (and Wade) the title. That is the issue. It's not like Lebron just played average or something.

He was so bad that people, to this day, still can't figure it out. He wasn't hurt. It was just him going ghost on both ends of the floor.

Again, I get why he struggled on offense. He was facing a great scheme and he clearly was shook by the pressure and his already inconsistent jumper went even more broke.

But it was his overall effort and energy and defense that made it the worst performance I've ever seen from a superstar I've ever seen on that stage.

Wade hasn't been better than LeBron since the 06 man.

People saying Wade was better than Bron in 2011 are just revising history all because of one series. LeBron had 522 votes for MVP that year....Wade had 24.... I love Wade, but until Bron the Heat were just a first round and out team. Wade couldn't even win a single playoff series in the East from the time Shaq stopped being All NBA 1st team and before LeBron came. Bron was carrying his team of scrubs to deep playoff runs and the Finals while Wade lost in round 1.....this was every year. Wade just isn't the same caliber of player as Bron. Not many are.



I want this partnership over after 2014. LeBron has unfinished business in Cleveland, anyway. And I don't care what anybody thinks of the fact that this is what I want. I'm nine-parts Wade fan, one-part Heat fan. And I don't care what anyone thinks about that either.

Man I thought the kobe fans were bad until I read this dicksuckers post.

If the LeBron-Wade partnership ends I hope wade is the one that goes and you too. Wade is playing like shit while LeBron is in the prime of his career. Wade will go back to where he was post Shaq and pre LeBron. First round. Let me know how that works out for you dude. Im a Wade fan, but thats the truth. I dont let my like/dislike of players blind my judgement. Your thinking like a woman.

[jrong]

Mother of god. By far the best post I've ever seen regarding Wade and his symbiotic relationship with LeBron.

Eloquently worded, and I completely agree. I was a major fan of Wade prior to the move he pulled in 2010. Those last three paragraphs from you are gold.

Is Wade your favorite player of all-time, by the way?

Yes. There are three athletes who have affected me on an emotional level. Jordan, Agassi, and Wade.

Rooting for MJ was just an excercise in rooting for sublime perfection. Watching him entranced me because I was a kid. If I watched him as an adult, I would have still been a huge fan, but it wouldn't have been a visceral experience.

What being a fan of Wade adds is the underrated underdog component. Rooting for Wade is an exercise in rooting for sublime imperfection. But, the fact that he's surreally underappreciated, has transformed the action of promoting his legacy into a veritable cause for me.

Being a fan of Jordan wasn't the same because nobody undercredited Mike. It was like I said, being a fan of perfection.

But, with Wade, the injustice aspect that comes from the lack of deserved respect has given me a crusader mentality. I feel almost a moral obligation to try to see that he gets his due, and I'm naive enough (probably) to think that I can single-handedly accomplish this through literary means.

[DMAVS41]

Wade hasn't been better than LeBron since the 06 man.

People saying Wade was better than Bron in 2011 are just revising history all because of one series. LeBron had 522 votes for MVP that year....Wade had 24.... I love Wade, but until Bron the Heat were just a first round and out team. Wade couldn't even win a single playoff series in the East from the time Shaq stopped being All NBA 1st team and before LeBron came. Bron was carrying his team of scrubs to deep playoff runs and the Finals while Wade lost in round 1.....this was every year. Wade just isn't the same caliber of player as Bron. Not many are.



Man I thought the kobe fans were bad until I read this dicksuckers post.

If the LeBron-Wade partnership ends I hope wade is the one that goes and you too. Wade is playing like shit while LeBron is in the prime of his career. Wade will go back to where he was post Shaq and pre LeBron. First round. Let me know how that works out for you dude. Im a Wade fan, but thats the truth. I dont let my like/dislike of players blind my judgement. Your thinking like a woman.

I should clarify. I was talking about the 11 playoffs. I thought Wade was the best player on the team in the playoffs.

[Xiengqichess]

After game 3, when the Heat lead 2-1, James intended to give up. The reason is, if the Heat won, the FMVP would go to Wade, and James's legacy would be forever destroyed. He knew that the Heat eventually will win the years to come.
Imagine if the Heat won 2011 and Wade won FMVP, James would be known riding Wade to win chips. That's why Nike and his people told him to give up. If he really tried, he would not be that bad.

[Trollsmasher]

Lebron in 11 Finals;

Worst performance by a superstar in NBA history in the Finals. End of story.

Even though the Mavs did everything to stop Lebron...everything...and I mean everything. He still was beyond bad and clearly choked.

I can actually understand the inept offense because Lebron never shoots jumpers unless he's hot and is so limited when he can't get to the rim...but it was his defense that actually killed the Heat.

That is where Lebron's epic collapse isn't given enough justice even to this day. He was putrid on offense...but equally bad defensively. He missed help side all the time. Got beat in ever situation imaginable...etc.

Worst performance in the finals by a superstar ever.
Someone forgot about 2004 Kobe here...

[plowking]

Mother of god. By far the best post I've ever seen regarding Wade and his symbiotic relationship with LeBron.

Eloquently worded, and I completely agree. I was a major fan of Wade prior to the move he pulled in 2010. Those last three paragraphs from you are gold.

Is Wade your favorite player of all-time, by the way?

All I read was a giant crock of shit from a player only fan. :oldlol:

Hes almost as bad as pauk. Neither really care about the team and are just looking out for their boys. :oldlol:

[Dream34]

Jason Terry called him out after game three. He let Terry torch him for the later half of the series including the game 6 where Terry poured in a big-time 28 points. That's just totally inexcusable.
As for the offensive end, the Dallas zone exposed his inconsistent mid range game and his inability to post up. I do concede Lebron made some nice passes to find Wade, Bosh, and Haslem on cuts, but he was lethargic/disengaged throughout the later course of series. I find it all very ironic because he was the ONE who voiced in the pre-game huddle prior to game 4 that "they all needed play with a sense of urgency".

Of course, Lebron had a sensational 2012 post-season to obtain some sort of atonement, but I can't fault big-time Wade fans still being moderately bitter about that disgusting 2011 performance. However, there's a solid chance that Lebron is going to get a severely hobbled Wade a third ring in this current post-season at the very least.

[jrong]

Man I thought the kobe fans were bad until I read this dicksuckers post.

If the LeBron-Wade partnership ends I hope wade is the one that goes and you too. Wade is playing like shit while LeBron is in the prime of his career. Wade will go back to where he was post Shaq and pre LeBron. First round. Let me know how that works out for you dude. Im a Wade fan, but thats the truth. I dont let my like/dislike of players blind my judgement. Your thinking like a woman.

I'm not even going to rise to your provocation. I already explained my rationale for why I feel the way that I do, and if you or anyone doesn't respect that, then as I said, I could give a shit.

But, I'm cool if Wade leaves too. He is rightly regarded as a civic treasure in Miami, but if he were to explain to the fans that he'll always love them and the city, but he wants one last chance to challenge himself in a new situation, I would hope that they would let him go with adoration and respect. Of course, I was only a Floridian for one year, so I understand that it's a lot easier for me to say that.

And if he never made it past the first round again or even to the playoffs, I would still relish the opportunity to watch him try.

[Young X]

What pisses me off the most is that Wade will forever be looked at as Brons sidekick when he was MUCH more than that, hell when you look at stats/playoff performances he was just as good as him. The fact that people rank Manu, Pippen, or Miller ahead of him is a disgrace. NOBODY can convince me that Wade isn't the most overlooked/underrated superstar ever.

[SamuraiSWISH]

All I read was a giant crock of shit from a player only fan. :oldlol:

Hes almost as bad as pauk. Neither really care about the team and are just looking out for their boys. :oldlol:
Oh stop, whatever makes someone a fan is their reason. Why is someone not allowed to be a "player only fan"?

For the same reason you being a Miami Heat / San Francisco 49er fan is equally absurd. You live in Australia. Go watch rugby or some shit. You don't even have loose affiliation with either of these states or team franchises.

The difference with jrong is he isn't psychotic, and doesn't go out of his way to defend Wade and play mental gymnastics to defend him. He's simply defending an underrated player. If you were a fan of the Heat franchise, I figured you would cherish him doing that.

[DMAVS41]

Someone forgot about 2004 Kobe here...

Nope. Lebron's was worse. Simple as that.

[jrong]

All I read was a giant crock of shit from a player only fan. :oldlol:

Hes almost as bad as pauk. Neither really care about the team and are just looking out for their boys. :oldlol:

Really? Just think about that on its face. Pauk can't even write in proper grammatical sentences-- probably not even in his own language. And if I'm not the absolute most literate poster on this board, I'm at the very least anyone's equal in that respect.

I've explained the unique circumstances of my Wade/Heat fandom on several occasions. If you can't grasp it, well who the **** are you to me, anyway?

[Trollsmasher]

Nope. Lebron's was worse. Simple as that.
Hardly

[plowking]

Oh stop, whatever makes someone a fan is their reason. Why is someone not allowed to be a "player only fan"?

For the same reason you being a Miami Heat / San Francisco 49er fan is equally absurd. You live in Australia. Go watch rugby or some shit. You don't even have loose affiliation with either of these states or team franchises.

The difference with jrong is he isn't psychotic, and doesn't go out of his way to defend Wade and play mental gymnastics to defend him. He's simply defending an underrated player. If you were a fan of the Heat franchise, I figured you would cherish him doing that.

I actually do have family in San Fran, so nice fail.

I live in Australia, so what? You shouldn't eat foods imported in to your countries, or that invented by other cultures or use inventions created by non Americans. Ignorant f*ck.
I choose to live in Australia. If I wanted to live in America, I'd be there.

Hes not doing anything for the Heat franchise. Hes propping up one player while pulling down the rest. Stick to talking about your own shitty franchise since you have no affiliation to the Heat. That's how it works, right?

[plowking]

Really? Just think about that on its face. Pauk can't even write in proper grammatical sentences-- probably not even in his own language. And if I'm not the absolute most literate poster on this board, I'm at the very least anyone's equal in that respect.

I've explained the unique circumstances ofmy Wade/Heat fandom on several occasions. If you can't grasp it, well who the **** are you to me, anyway?

Calm down ass wipe. I called out another poster for being a lap dog to your shit.

I don't care how you support, who you support, why you support. But it is a bias view of the Heat organization as a whole, which is your opinion, and I'm fine with it. Just idiots on here acting as if its the holy grail of logic is idiotic.

[jrong]

Bye, plowking. Unlike the other two posters I've blocked, I used to consider you a worthy poster. But, this isn't the first time you've attacked me by peddling your bullshit pronouncements about what constitutes legitimate fandom.

So I now lump you in with Jacks and Tony Montana. Proud company to share.

But, go on and peddle whatever bullshit you like. I just won't have to read it anymore.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Bye, plowking. Unlike the other two posters I've blocked, I used to consider you a worthy poster. But, this isn't the first time you've attacked me by peddling your bullshit pronouncements about what constitutes legitimate fandom.

So I now lump you in with Jacks and Tony Montana. Proud company to share.

But, go on and peddle whatever bullshit you like. I just won't have to read it anymore.

You're a good writer but you don't need to pronounce to the world who you're blocking. Makes you look a bit insecure.

[retaxis]

Yes. There are three athletes who have affected me on an emotional level. Jordan, Agassi, and Wade.
okay


Rooting for MJ was just an excercise in rooting for sublime perfection.
no such thing as 'perfection' are you saying MJ was a perfect human being? You think he was a good man to his family? his friends? his team mates? You think he is a good business owner? There is no such thing as perfection kid


Watching him entranced me because I was a kid. If I watched him as an adult, I would have still been a huge fan, but it wouldn't have been a visceral experience.
Sure it would, MJ was a once in a life time athlete.


What being a fan of Wade adds is the underrated underdog component. Rooting for Wade is an exercise in rooting for sublime imperfection. But, the fact that he's surreally underappreciated, has transformed the action of promoting his legacy into a veritable cause for me.
Hate to break it to you but no one is perfect and a sport stars fame should not be a 'cause' for anyone. Even hippies at least have at least global causes e.g. reduce violence and rape against women, reduce corruption, equality etc Your cause is a basketball players 'legacy?' says a lot about you.


Being a fan of Jordan wasn't the same because nobody undercredited Mike. It was like I said, being a fan of perfection.
keyword 'fan'. Except being a fan doesn't mean sh1t for you. As you already found out no one respects you or cares about whether your a fan or not. People care about these things in life in the following order -> Personality, career, physique. Not whether your a basketball fan or not chump.


But, with Wade, the injustice aspect that comes from the lack of deserved respect has given me a crusader mentality. I feel almost a moral obligation to try to see that he gets his due, and I'm naive enough (probably) to think that I can single-handedly accomplish this through literary means.
When you say something like that..You can go down 2 paths. 1 to re-evaluate what you have been doing and saying and its affects on your personal growth/development and future outlook or continue doing so and becoming increasingly 'retarded' and socially awkward to the point that when you walk to the shopping centre, you feel that you are an alien because everyone is speaking another language to you. Your choice big cheese, I'm a therapist its about time you took some advice before you waste yourself out.

[Vertical-24]

That 2011 Finals is a skid mark on LeBron, Wade's and the Miami Heat's "Big Three" era forever. No matter how dominant they get, or how high Bron ascends the all-time ranks, or how much Wade slips from people's consciousness of the player he used to be. I will always remember, and it will always affect all of their legacies in my book.

I'm of the mind LeBron deliberately gave up that season because Wade took the Finals by the horns and was making it his show. LeBron knew the "Pippen" narrative would be there if he didn't win his first ring as the definitive best player on the team. It's sad, it's pathetic.

Wade was balling that series, hell overall he was their best player that entire season and post season. He would be sitting on 2x FMVP and about to be his 4th ring this season if LeBron didn't throw the series. That's quite the resume right there. Wade prior to his hip flexor was incredibly clutch and dominant during that series. From the 2nd half of game 1 on he was the Heat's best player by a LARGE margin.

Big egos never want to take a backseat.

[K Xerxes]

Well, that's lovely for Wade isn't it? I'm so glad that the fact that he ****ed up Wade's standing in history set LeBron on his path to greatness.

This is the single most nauseating aspect of the revisionism that has taken place after 2011. LeBron's failure was projected on to Wade, and over time, the narrative became that Wade had to "learn to humble himself" and let James lead in order for the team to grow into champions.

Bullshit. He needed a 5% better performance from LeBron. LeBron performing as well as Bosh would have done it, frankly. He needed LeBron to do for him what he did for LeBron in the Bulls series and, despite struggles, step up at the end of games, as Wade did in Games 3, 4 , and 5.

So in 2012, LeBron gets the redemption narrative, and Wade is forgotten yet again.

I've always thought that the James/Wade friendship was great for James and terrible for Wade. This goes to Wade's psychology as someone perpetually underrated. I always sensed that he wanted to prove he belonged on the same court with Bron/Melo and later Bron/Kobe. But, I never got the sense that he believed he could be better.

The practical effect of this, I beleive, was to provide James a psychological advantage over Wade when they were competitors. I would've rather seen Wade take the approach toward him that Magic and Bird had toward each other. Because, if Wade hadn't gotten hurt in the 05 ECFs and 07 season, he could've challenged James to become the player of their generation.

And, oh boy, now that they're teammates, it couldn't work out better for LBJ. Wade loves his boy so much that, on an individual level, he has sacrificed his goddamn legacy so that LeBron has a (completely undeserved) chance to be considered the GOAT.

Then this is just a matter of perspectives. You are a Wade fan, there is nothing wrong with that, and ultimately I understand your feelings.

But, for the Heat fanbase, what LeBron has become is because of '11. Honestly, the Heat wouldn't have won the championship in '12 with Wade's knee leg problems. He had 3 great games against Indiana but disappeared against Boston. You think we would have gotten that performance of the ages from LeBron had he won taking a backseat to Wade in '11? Perhaps, but less likely. Would he have been able to devastate the Thunder by working in the post all series? No.

As it stands, it seems more likely that LeBron will lead the Heat to more championships in the future than if Wade had retained the alpha role in '12.

It is actually disingenous to suggest Wade sacrificied his legacy. No he didn't. He had no choice. Even if he won in '11, he would have had to take a step due to his injuries. LeBron wouldn't have been ready though and I doubt the Heat would be as successful or historic as they are now.

Wade has done a lot for LeBron, but LeBron has done a lot for Wade too. He didn't give him his finals MVP, but without LeBron, Wade would have been stuck on a bottom feeder team unable to sniff the title. Without LeBron, the Heat would not have gone passed Boston or Chicago. Without LeBron, he wouldn't be getting more titles. He may second option, but, all else equal, LeBron has only enhanced Wade's legacy.

[Akhenaten]

ahh the good old days

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/Haskel45/unreal.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/Haskel45/flight.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/Haskel45/wade1wmviq8.gif



some times having inhuman athleticism can be a bane

How do you go from that to having to play like Paul Pierce, has to be devastating to the psyche.

This was a 6'4 player avg 27 ppg on 48-50% FG in his prime on mainly athleticism

never had a money jumper, handles were never particularly tight (for a guard), erratic FT shooter, poor 3 point shooter.

Wade used to DOMINATE games with pure athleticism, guy was a mutant.

[FLDFSU]

Bron pretty much had the same stats against the Mavs that Wade had against the Bulls in 2011...one series the Heat managed to win, the other they didn't


:applause:

[ILLsmak]

The logical answer is yes, because of the battles with injuries Wade has faced over the last 2 seasons Lebron and a championship supporting cast, has allowed Wade to still add to his championship resume.

However.....and yet........the pungent stench of the 2011 Finals still lingers, haunting the dark enclaves of my memory. No matter how hard I try to drown it, it persists in bubbling up to the surface every time I see Wade grimacing, clutching his knee. Its an errant dunk here, a listless block attempt there, or a jumpshot that meekly falls off the front of the rim.

The 2011 Finals was the last time we saw Dwyane Wade as Dwyane Wade, as playoff Dwayne Wade, ....as FINALS Dwayne Wade and he could not wrest Finals MVP because Lebron's soul was demonized by fear.

It was the one last time Wade had of picking up a major accolade, (a huge accolade that could have moved him up significantly up the all time list), his last brush with individual glory, after a career of being overlooked and dare I say it, disrespected. A slew of all defensive/1st team NBA snubs would have been rectified.

Now we will never see it....again. That Wade is gone through a shifting of team dynamics/health/ and the damn near omnipotent shadow of Lebron.

It was the perfect finals for Wade to win. After the all the ridiculous BS Wade fans have had to put up for years about an alleged Stern rigged Finals, I really wanted Wade to put the final stake in the heart of that argument by destroying Dallas again en route to yet another legendary performance. The stage was set.....it was perfect. Now that I think back....almost too perfect.

I grudgingly forgive Lebron, but will never forget.

lol dat prose.

-Smak

[guy]

I don't understand this excuse for Lebron that if it wasn't for what happened in 2011, he wouldn't have gotten better in 2012. Huh? So it would have to take an absolute embarrassment for him to work and improve on his game? And what exactly are you saying? "It's okay that you were a p*ssy in 2011, cause it made you not a p*ssy in 2012!" :oldlol:

And I also keep hearing people equate Wade's series vs. the Bulls to Lebron's vs. the Mavs. Let me ask those people something. Have you guys ever played in an organized basketball league or even just pick-up basketball? If yes, have you played with a very talented teammate who in one game just wasn't playing well either due to his shot not falling or the defense against him but was still giving his maximum effort and aggressiveness and could still go off at any second? Have you also played with a very talented teammate who all of a sudden just looked like he didn't want to play and was uncharacteristically too passive and deferred way more then usual? Did you notice a difference between how much more demoralizing for your team one of those scenarios was over the other? When mentally it feels like its 4-on-5, its feels obvious who's going to win from that point on.

[Nero Tulip]

Jesus Heat fans need to get real. Miami isn't that good. The Mavs were better, deal with it. The Eastern conference is basically like the NBDL, you'll get destroyed in the finals again if you make it that far.

[Akhenaten]

Plowking is the stereotypical Australian douchebag

[f0und]

for the most part, i can forgive him. but it really irks me how people gloss over his colossal failure in '11 and prop him up as goat, while at the same time ignoring wade. its like the '11 failure affects wade's legacy much more than bron's which isnt fair. lebron had one of the, if not the worst finals for a superstar ever, but why does it seem like wade's legacy takes more of a hit than lebron's? and in '12, wade helped bron win his title in a way that bron couldnt the year before, yet people make it out be that it was all lebron.

because of lebron, wade missed his last chance to add a significant trophy to his legacy, and hardly anyone cares. because of wade, lebron added a significant trophy to his legacy, and hardly anyone cares that wade helped him. wade got the *hit end of the stick in both cases, while bron still comes out smelling like roses.

[f0und]

and for those trying to compare the '11 finals to the 'ECF finals, you have selective memory. true wade played like crap for most of the games in the ECF, but in several of those games, he came up BIG down the stretch, offensively and defensively.

if bron would done the same thing in the finals, the heat wouldve won. but he played like crap throughout the ENTIRE game, and never flipped that switch.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

and for those trying to compare the '11 finals to the 'ECF finals, you have selective memory. true wade played like crap for most of the games in the ECF, but in several of those games, he came up BIG down the stretch, offensively and defensively.

if bron would done the same thing in the finals, the heat wouldve won. but he played like crap throughout the ENTIRE game, and never flipped that switch.

To be fair, no one in the team could come through when it counted that series. Bosh had that game winner in game 3, but apart from that, everyone was abysmal in the clutch.

Edit: Except Chalmers from what I recall.

[K Xerxes]

I don't understand this excuse for Lebron that if it wasn't for what happened in 2011, he wouldn't have gotten better in 2012. Huh? So it would have to take an absolute embarrassment for him to work and improve on his game? And what exactly are you saying? "It's okay that you were a p*ssy in 2011, cause it made you not a p*ssy in 2012!" :oldlol:

Well, yes. LeBron went to Miami to win a championship. If he had achieved that in '11, why would have felt the need to learn how to post up or massively improve on his long range game? The '11 loss gave him a completely new mindset.

Now, he might have developed that later if the Heat didn't go on to win another championship, but it wouldn't have manifested in the dominant '12 run. Because he failed really hard, and that's what it takes to humble a self-appointed king. He had excuse after excuse in Cleveland - he didn't have the team mates, he always averaged at least 27-7-7, other teams were just better. But that wasn't true in '11 finals.

And, honestly, what he did in '12 is worth more in my opinion than what he didn't do in '11. I'm not sure how people can hold a different view.

[Akhenaten]

Wade is mainly to fault though, as he's never had ENOUGH of the sharkish mentality that it takes to be an unquestioned all-time great

Game 2 he had 36 points with over 6 mins left
after that he shot a bunch of long threes when he wasn't deferring to Lebron

that was Wade's game to close and after hit that three in the corner he turned his aggression level way down

He figured the game was in the bag and got out the way so Lebron cold amass some stats

If Wade cared about his legacy he finishes that game off, instead Wade was thinking about Lebron's psyche :facepalm

then again there are other principalities at work here

it was curious to me how coming off that time out, Spo called about three straight plays for Lebron.

making sure Lebron was in a good space mentally always seemed to be a priority. Wade facilitated this, but it has gotten away from him, Lebron's talent/durability and the machine behind him (ESPN/Nike) has swallowed up every thing.

The minute Lebron said he was coming here I anticipated Wade being reduced to nothing. First off they play the same style of game, secondly look at Larry Hughes, I still don't understand how Wade didnt see this coming.

[guy]

Well, yes. LeBron went to Miami to win a championship. If he had achieved that in '11, why would have felt the need to learn how to post up or massively improve on his long range game? The '11 loss gave him a completely new mindset.

Now, he might have developed that later if the Heat didn't go on to win another championship, but it wouldn't have manifested in the dominant '12 run. Because he failed really hard, and that's what it takes to humble a self-appointed king. He had excuse after excuse in Cleveland - he didn't have the team mates, he always averaged at least 27-7-7, other teams were just better. But that wasn't true in '11 finals.

And, honestly, what he did in '12 is worth more in my opinion than what he didn't do in '11. I'm not sure how people can hold a different view.


Umm, why did he feel the need to improve his post up, long range, and overall decision making even more even after winning the title? And he had failures before 2011. You're basically downplaying how bad 2011 was because you're saying it made him more motivated for the next year. That should not be looked at as some positive thing because he could've had that motivation beforehand and it wouldn't have mattered.

On top of that, the Heat losing in 2011 had little to do with his overall game, and everything to do with his overall psyche. And I would say that's the biggest difference in 2012 and 2013 as well, not how much he's improved his game.

[AlphaWolf24]

:lol ....Bron stans always complained...

"Lebron has no teammates in Cleveland"......" Lebron's teammates don't know how to play"

Lebron did the same thing in 2011!!!!! with the most stacked team in the LEAGUE!!.......just as he did in Cleveland in 07'....08'....09'....10'

- Bron Totally disappearred " mentally".......

- If he played the same way in Cleveland as he did in 12' he could have won....teammates had nothing to do with it......he had great teammates....and had a great team in CLEVELAND

[dh144498]

:lol ....Bron stans always complained...

"Lebron has no teammates in Cleveland"......" Lebron's teammates don't know how to play"

Lebron did the same thing in 2011!!!!! with the most stacked team in the LEAGUE!!.......just as he did in Cleveland in 07'....08'....09'....10'

- Bron Totally disappearred " mentally".......

- If he played the same way in Cleveland as he did in 12' he could have won....teammates had nothing to do with it......he had great teammates....and had a great team in CLEVELAND

this. Lebron fans full of revisionist history to cover up for their boy. Lebron had all the tools and help since 2007, but he just could not get it done until 2012.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Well, yes. LeBron went to Miami to win a championship. If he had achieved that in '11, why would have felt the need to learn how to post up or massively improve on his long range game? The '11 loss gave him a completely new mindset.

Now, he might have developed that later if the Heat didn't go on to win another championship, but it wouldn't have manifested in the dominant '12 run. Because he failed really hard, and that's what it takes to humble a self-appointed king. He had excuse after excuse in Cleveland - he didn't have the team mates, he always averaged at least 27-7-7, other teams were just better. But that wasn't true in '11 finals.

And, honestly, what he did in '12 is worth more in my opinion than what he didn't do in '11. I'm not sure how people can hold a different view.

Really, though, what Lebron did in '12 wasn't any more impressive than what he was doing in '09...w/ NO help.

Him being a complete no show in the '11 Finals is/was the worst performance in history from a superstar.

[AlphaWolf24]

this. Lebron fans full of revisionist history to cover up for their boy. Lebron had all the tools and help since 2007, but he just could not get it done until 2012.


- again...Big Z was an allstar in 2003....They put a DPOY caliber player Ben Wallace....a servicable Shaq Oneal....allstar PG Williams....20PPG Antwan Jamison....Anderson Varejo ( Joakim Noah before Joakim Noah) and good bench Role players....next to Lebron...

- all these players played great!!....and were great defenders/rebounders....and made huge plays in teh playoff's....they made it to the ECFINALS!!...how does a team that makes it to ECFinals not be considered a good playoff team?

- again, even with superstars..Lebron still dissappeared and cost his team...just like in Cleveland...

[FLDFSU]

:lol ....Bron stans always complained...

"Lebron has no teammates in Cleveland"......" Lebron's teammates don't know how to play"

Lebron did the same thing in 2011!!!!! with the most stacked team in the LEAGUE!!.......just as he did in Cleveland in 07'....08'....09'....10'

- Bron Totally disappearred " mentally".......

- If he played the same way in Cleveland as he did in 12' he could have won....teammates had nothing to do with it......he had great teammates....and had a great team in CLEVELAND


Imma need that great team in Cleveland not to lose 20+ games in a row the year after Lebron left.

That is not the mark of a great team.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Imma need that great team in Cleveland not to lose 20+ games in a row the year after Lebron left.

That is not the mark of a great team.

People need to stop saying this. Cleveland was a completely different team the following year.

[FLDFSU]

People need to stop saying this. Cleveland was a completely different team the following year.

So Shaq and Big Z caused them to end up with the number one pick?

Or are now we saying Coach Brown was a genius?

The Cavs lost their best defender, highest scorer, best defensive re bounder, second leading re bounder, assist guy, free throw attempt guy, minutes played guy, steals guy, and blocks guy.

The problem with this is that IT IS THE SAME GUY.

My point remains...I going to need this "great" team not to let one guy dominate them so badly and then follow up the next year by setting losing streaks and getting the number one pick.

[Mass Debator]

No. Wade would've had 2 championships with 2 Finals MVP. That's winning 2 out of 2 finals as the best player in each. Instead of going for title #3 this year, he'd be aiming for title #4. Wade would've probably ended with 5-6 titles and be up there in the 2nd best shooting guard in history debate with Kobe (edge to Kobe of course). People also wouldn't be so damn dismissive of Wade's impact on the Heat in this year's playoff run because he would've already proven his dominance. Now all Wade is a big fat question mark regarding health concerns and declination.

Whatever the case, Wade will always be the leader of Lebron even if Lebron is leading the team.

[TheMan]

Forget 2006 FMVP, the most impressive thing Wade has done in his overrated career was convince LeBron to be seen as a turncoat by most fans and leave his original franchise. :applause:

We all know that Wade knew LBJ was going to be unstoppable and he'd have no chance against him so he whispered sweet nothings to LeBron and he got down on his knees along with that gangster Riley and sucked that LBJ cawk.

[SamuraiSWISH]

And I also keep hearing people equate Wade's series vs. the Bulls to Lebron's vs. the Mavs. Let me ask those people something. Have you guys ever played in an organized basketball league or even just pick-up basketball? If yes, have you played with a very talented teammate who in one game just wasn't playing well either due to his shot not falling or the defense against him but was still giving his maximum effort and aggressiveness and could still go off at any second? Have you also played with a very talented teammate who all of a sudden just looked like he didn't want to play and was uncharacteristically too passive and deferred way more then usual? Did you notice a difference between how much more demoralizing for your team one of those scenarios was over the other? When mentally it feels like its 4-on-5, its feels obvious who's going to win from that point on.
Preach

[Dengness9]

One side of me wants to call Wade smart for joining up with a stacked team he knew would win atleast 1 title if not multiple titles.


The other half of me wants to call him a huge ***** for accepting becoming the sidekick.

I guess the knee might not hold up anyway but Wade use to be a special player.... he's actually become the 3rd fiddle on the Heat. Bosh's importance outweighs Wade's w/out a doubt at this point.

Wade was good enough to win another w/out Lebron as long as he had someone like Chris Bosh to play with. But he decided titles, no matter how they come, are more important than anything, which is fair because its his prerogative. I bet down the road he will SOMEWHAT privately regret teaming with Lebron because he lost his role as team leader, and no one talks about him anymore really.

Plus Wade's individual legacy takes a hit in a way because as many of you have said in this thread, Lebron will have completely overshadowed him by the time the Big 3 era is over in Miami.

It's no longer Dade County, i dont care who tries to spin it another, he's not the man anymore for the Heat, and Bosh has moved into the "Robin" to Lebron's batman role.

[seanclayton]

LeBitch being the passive-aggressive ass that he is. Gets outperformed by Wade, sabotages the entire Finals anyways.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

One side of me wants to call Wade smart for joining up with a stacked team he knew would win atleast 1 title if not multiple titles.


The other half of me wants to call him a huge ***** for accepting becoming the sidekick.

I guess the knee might not hold up anyway but Wade use to be a special player.... he's actually become the 3rd fiddle on the Heat. Bosh's importance outweighs Wade's w/out a doubt at this point.

Wade was good enough to win another w/out Lebron as long as he had someone like Chris Bosh to play with. But he decided titles, no matter how they come, are more important than anything, which is fair because its his prerogative. I bet down the road he will SOMEWHAT privately regret teaming with Lebron because he lost his role as team leader, and no one talks about him anymore really.

Plus Wade's individual legacy takes a hit in a way because as many of you have said in this thread, Lebron will have completely overshadowed him by the time the Big 3 era is over in Miami.

It's no longer Dade County, i dont care who tries to spin it another, he's not the man anymore for the Heat, and Bosh has moved into the "Robin" to Lebron's batman role.

The thing is he didn't have much of a choice. He had to become the sidekick after 2012 due to injuries. As for regrets, I think he already does somewhat. I remember earlier during the season, he was pouting about how he misses taking more shots. And Wade has always been kind of underrated so I don't think that's a huge deal to him.

I'm curious about why you think his legacy would be diminished. It might seem that way right now, but at the end of it all, people will always remember he won a championship before the Big 3 era. Also, he played a huge role in the 2012 run.

[LBJ 23]

I should clarify. I was talking about the 11 playoffs. I thought Wade was the best player on the team in the playoffs.


Well, that's debatable. Lebron surely sucked in the Finals but in the 2 previous rounds against Boston and Chicago he was arguably better than Wade. Especially against Chicago. And remember, Chicago with MVP and Boston with ''big 3'', both teams were supposed to be bigger challenge to Miami than the Mavs team, at least before the playoffs started everyone thought so. And Lebron delivered against both teams, he was very clutch in both series and he also shut down 2011 MVP in the crucial minutes of the games.

Like posters before me said, Lebron was playing wayyyy below his standards in the Finals, and while Wade was playing very well he also couldn't really close out some close games against Dallas like Lebron did against Boston for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rxU9s2TqDc

[NJW1247]

Wade was balling that series, hell overall he was their best player that entire season and post season.


Uh no, lets not try to rewrite history here now...

[PrettyCool]

No. NBA fans will never forgive him either. When the supposed best player in the world embarrasses himself like that on the biggest stage, it lets you know how weak of an era we're in right now.

[dh144498]

Uh no, lets not try to rewrite history here now...

not in the regular season, but Wade was definitely their best player in the post season and in the finals in 2011.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

not in the regular season, but Wade was definitely their best player in the post season and in the finals in 2011.

Actually it was pretty even in the post season until the Finals.

[RRR3]

I'm a LeBron fan, and I like Wade but he's not one of my favorite players. But I am still bothered by the 2011 finals, because LeBron was inexplicably bad. The whole "sabotage" thing is hilariously stupid, though. Why on earth would LeBron (who was by far the most scrutinized athlete in the world at that time) play like horseshit, knowing full well he would get pilloried like no player in NBA history ever has?

[Ikill]

Well, that's debatable. Lebron surely sucked in the Finals but in the 2 previous rounds against Boston and Chicago he was arguably better than Wade. Especially against Chicago. And remember, Chicago with MVP and Boston with ''big 3'', both teams were supposed to be bigger challenge to Miami than the Mavs team, at least before the playoffs started everyone thought so. And Lebron delivered against both teams, he was very clutch in both series and he also shut down 2011 MVP in the crucial minutes of the games.

Like posters before me said, Lebron was playing wayyyy below his standards in the Finals, and while Wade was playing very well he also couldn't really close out some close games against Dallas like Lebron did against Boston for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rxU9s2TqDc
Wade was better against Dallas than Lebron was against Chicago and Wade was better against Boston than Lebron was against Boston. Wade had the top two series IMO and he also finished with better stats at the end of the postseason.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The whole "sabotage" thing is hilariously stupid, though. Why on earth would LeBron (who was by far the most scrutinized athlete in the world at that time) play like horseshit, knowing full well he would get pilloried like no player in NBA history ever has?
Why would he win as the 2nd best player, and have to deal with further "Pippen" or "Robin" narratives and backlash?

Why did LeBron quit on a 60+ win team, mid way through a series when they had just taken a 2 games to 1 lead on the Boston Celtics in the 2010 playoffs?

LeSabotage isn't as heinous or ridiculous as you make it out to be. Two seasons in a row LeBron visibly withdrew with an extreme lack of passion.

[FLDFSU]

Why would he win as the 2nd best player, and have to deal with further "Pippen" or "Robin" narratives and backlash?

Why did LeBron quit on a 60+ win team, mid way through a series when they had just taken a 2 games to 1 lead on the Boston Celtics in the 2010 playoffs?

LeSabotage isn't as heinous or ridiculous as you make it out to be. Two seasons in a row LeBron visibly withdrew with an extreme lack of passion.

Yea, if Lebron was concerned about that I don't think would be in a Miami Heat Uniform.

[RRR3]

Why would he win as the 2nd best player, and have to deal with further "Pippen" or "Robin" narratives and backlash?

Why did LeBron quit on a 60+ win team, mid way through a series when they had just taken a 2 games to 1 lead on the Boston Celtics in the 2010 playoffs?

LeSabotage isn't as heinous or ridiculous as you make it out to be. Two seasons in a row LeBron visibly withdrew with an extreme lack of passion.
Pretty sure LeBron at least put up good stats in 2010, which would give him something to point to. If he cared so much about being the first option, then he probably would have just started chucking and hogging the ball at Wade's expense. It would have been better for LeBron to win as second option than to lose the way he did. Hell, if he had put up say 22/7/7 or something, he'd probably get a lot less shit (assuming 2012 happened of course). Obviously, there would be a lot of "LeBron is a sidekick" etc until that happened, but if I were LBJ I would prefer that to being considered the biggest choker of all time.

[jlip]

There is very little case for saying that Wade was the Heat's best post season player up until the '11 Finals. I can't think of any metric or "eye test" to validate the claim that Wade was better than Lebron through the first three rounds. As a matter of fact I remember at the end of both Conf. Finals, either ESPN or NBA.com did a poll asking who had been the playoff MVP up until that point, Dirk or Lebron. Wade was not even an option. Keep in mind, this was at a time when anti- Lebron sentiment was at its highest.


1st round vs Sixers
Lebron-24.2/10.6/6.2 on 46.9fg%
Wade- 22.2/8.4/5.2 on 43.8fg%

Lebron led in scoring 3 games. Wade led 2 games. This series was never really in doubt, and while Lebron had better stats, there was really no need for a "better" player. I do vaguely remember Wade playing better in the closeout game of that series though. If you had to give the advantage to one for the series it would be Lebron.

2nd round vs Celtics
Lebron- 28.0/8.2/3.6 on 47.2fg%
Wade- 30.2/6.8/4.8 on 52.6fg%

Wade led the team in scoring in 3 of the games (2 wins). In 2 of those games Wade outscored Lebron by a relatively huge margin 61-37. Lebron led the team in scoring in 2 of the wins. Lebron took over the 4th quarter in game 4 sending the game to OT. Wade had 5 pts in OT. Lebron had 2. Lebron closed out game 5 with a 10-0 run. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evkc-3ZmLUU)

If you had to choose a better player here it would be Wade.

3rd round
Lebron-25.8/7.8/6.6 on 44.7fg%
Wade- 18.8/6.4/2.2 on 40.2fg%
Lebron was clearly the better player and had dominant performances on both sides of the ball. Wade had arguably the worst playoff series of his career but came through along with Lebron in the clutch of game 5 though. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgLMI784M4E)


Cumulative stats through first rounds
Lebron-26/8.9/5.5 on 46.3fg%
Wade- 23.7/7.2/4.1 on 46.0fg%

We know that Wade outplayed Lebron in the Finals, but I can't think of how any case can be made that he was the Heat's best player through the first three rounds or the regular season for that matter.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wade got hurt in game 5, missed almost 2 quarters, and still finished with more points than lebron.

Lebron was a disgrace in the nba finals, and that 8 point performance on a pivotal game 4(miami would go up 3-1), was the biggest choke in professional sports history.
Here was his pre-game speech in game 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEFOLOVePVk

:bowdown:

[R.I.P.]

The Mavs were a great defensive team. That

[Doctor Rivers]

Before The Decision, I remember hearing reports down here in Miami that Wade's family and friends did NOT want LeBron to come to Miami. They thought LeBron was going to come in here and "swoop" away what Wade has here with Micky Arison/Pat Riley and the Heat organization. They wanted him to roll with Bosh and have Riley finish building around them 2.


I never thought anything of it. But I do think it's weird and bizarre how LBJ vanished. It wasn't even like the Mavs were doing a good job on defense... they had Jason Kidd guarding him sometimes and Jason Terry... smaller defenders......way smaller...... though, in 2011, LBJ had not worked on developing his post game at all. During the 2012 championship run, you saw LBJ go to his post game moves a lot with great success.... something he simply didn't have in 2011. I remember after the 2011 Finals, Riles was like "Lebron you gotta get a go-to move, brah" and LBJ added the post game....


As far as LBJ acting shady.... he did try to get Spo fired and was bumping Spo, remember "Bumpgate"..... honestly, the Cavaliers did a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE job at helping LeBron James grow up into a respectable man. They basically spoiled him and let him do anything he wanted...... which is why 2011 LBJ still had bad habits he had to work on... like the pre-mature celebrations in the 2011 Finals trying to shadowbox Wade when the Heat went up 15 pts in the 4th quarter with only 7 mins left in the game.....

LBJ coming to Miami, under the tutelage and discipline of Pat Riley, Arison, and all these guys, it was the best thing for LeBron to grow as a man and become a better human being.

lol @ you

[Sarcastic]

Has any player ever seen his stats go up by playing with Lebron? Larry Hughes, Ilgauskas, Antawn Jamison, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh. All of them watched their stats plummet playing with Lebron.

I think the only one whose stats went up was Mo Williams, and it was like a smidge better.

[jrong]

Then this is just a matter of perspectives. You are a Wade fan, there is nothing wrong with that, and ultimately I understand your feelings.

But, for the Heat fanbase, what LeBron has become is because of '11. Honestly, the Heat wouldn't have won the championship in '12 with Wade's knee leg problems. He had 3 great games against Indiana but disappeared against Boston. You think we would have gotten that performance of the ages from LeBron had he won taking a backseat to Wade in '11? Perhaps, but less likely. Would he have been able to devastate the Thunder by working in the post all series? No.

As it stands, it seems more likely that LeBron will lead the Heat to more championships in the future than if Wade had retained the alpha role in '12.

It is actually disingenous to suggest Wade sacrificied his legacy. No he didn't. He had no choice. Even if he won in '11, he would have had to take a step due to his injuries. LeBron wouldn't have been ready though and I doubt the Heat would be as successful or historic as they are now.

Wade has done a lot for LeBron, but LeBron has done a lot for Wade too. He didn't give him his finals MVP, but without LeBron, Wade would have been stuck on a bottom feeder team unable to sniff the title. Without LeBron, the Heat would not have gone passed Boston or Chicago. Without LeBron, he wouldn't be getting more titles. He may second option, but, all else equal, LeBron has only enhanced Wade's legacy.

That's inconclusive. Wade/Bosh/players obtained with $ spent on LeBron would have been a contender. They wouldn't have been the favorite, but they would have been a contender. And remember, they weren't the favorite in 06 either.

[TheNaturalWR]

Uh no, lets not try to rewrite history here now...

Wade was the best player in the league in 2011. There's a reason why I always hate it when people say "oh shit he'll never be as good as he was in 06' anymore" when his two best seasons have easily been 2009 and 2011.

[BallsOut]

bump

pauk just exposed again in this thread

[Magic 32]

We know that Wade outplayed Lebron in the Finals, but I can't think of how any case can be made that he was the Heat's best player through the first three rounds or the regular season for that matter.

Jason Terry outplayed Lebron. :oldlol:

[sc19]

In b4 Wade sabotages LeBron.

[dreamshake]

The logical answer is yes, because of the battles with injuries Wade has faced over the last 2 seasons Lebron and a championship supporting cast, has allowed Wade to still add to his championship resume.

However.....and yet........the pungent stench of the 2011 Finals still lingers, haunting the dark enclaves of my memory. No matter how hard I try to drown it, it persists in bubbling up to the surface every time I see Wade grimacing, clutching his knee. Its an errant dunk here, a listless block attempt there, or a jumpshot that meekly falls off the front of the rim.

The 2011 Finals was the last time we saw Dwyane Wade as Dwyane Wade, as playoff Dwayne Wade, ....as FINALS Dwayne Wade and he could not wrest Finals MVP because Lebron's soul was demonized by fear.

It was the one last time Wade had of picking up a major accolade, (a huge accolade that could have moved him up significantly up the all time list), his last brush with individual glory, after a career of being overlooked and dare I say it, disrespected. A slew of all defensive/1st team NBA snubs would have been rectified.

Now we will never see it....again. That Wade is gone through a shifting of team dynamics/health/ and the damn near omnipotent shadow of Lebron.

It was the perfect finals for Wade to win. After the all the ridiculous BS Wade fans have had to put up for years about an alleged Stern rigged Finals, I really wanted Wade to put the final stake in the heart of that argument by destroying Dallas again en route to yet another legendary performance. The stage was set.....it was perfect. Now that I think back....almost too perfect.

I grudgingly forgive Lebron, but will never forget.

True Wade fans will never forgive nor forget Lebron. The ones that have are still living in denial.

[TheBigVeto]

Without Lebron, the Heat wasn't going to the finals that year.

[plowking]

True Wade fans will never forgive nor forget Lebron. The ones that have are still living in denial.

Good thing Heat fans can simply enjoy the titles we did get.

jrong and Dresta are the only ones still mad about that year. And somehow pauk because he has spit that BS about Wade sabotaging Bron so much that he now believes his own fantasy. :oldlol:

[Rose'sACL]

LeBron was the biggest reason the heat lost along with bosh. LeBron wasn't shooting a lot like 2004 kobe so there were shots for bosh.

Heat would have still pushed it to game 7 at least if wade also didn't disappear in the clutch in more than 1 game. he also had a pretty bad game 6.

Also, if lebron played better, he wouldn't be that far off from wade.

The truth is that lebron choked but no player on either teams was otherwordly so if lebron played better, he would have had a good case of FMVP himself if he just averaged 25ppg which would still be low from his standards but he would be right there with wade and dirk.

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron was the biggest reason the heat lost along with bosh. LeBron wasn't shooting a lot like 2004 kobe so there were shots for bosh.

Heat would have still pushed it to game 7 at least if wade also didn't disappear in the clutch in more than 1 game. he also had a pretty bad game 6.

Also, if lebron played better, he wouldn't be that far off from wade.

The truth is that lebron choked but no player on either teams was otherwordly so if lebron played better, he would have had a good case of FMVP himself if he just averaged 25ppg which would still be low from his standards but he would be right there with wade and dirk.

Lol, so if he just averaged 7 more ppg in the series, he'd have a case for Finals MVP? Same could be said for most, if not all championship second options

[Wade's Rings]

LeBron was the biggest reason the heat lost along with bosh. LeBron wasn't shooting a lot like 2004 kobe so there were shots for bosh.

Heat would have still pushed it to game 7 at least if wade also didn't disappear in the clutch in more than 1 game. he also had a pretty bad game 6.

Also, if lebron played better, he wouldn't be that far off from wade.

:roll: :roll: In Game 2 after Wade put the Heat up 15 and Bron's celebration, Bron held the Ball for 4+ Possessions while Wade got cold and out of the Offensive flow.

In Game 4 Wade played well outside of the missed Free Throw and Dropped Ball. Even then what did Bron do? He had 2 pts cone off an infamous flop and another 2 come from an outlet fastbreak pass from Wade. So while Wade "disappeared" In the 4th Bron created 4pts for himself the whole Game :oldlol:

In Game 5 Wade was great in the Clutch while Bron played like shit.

In Game 6 Wade was hurt after the hipcheck Brian Cardinal gave him in Game 5.

You can't take Bron Stans seriously....I give Kobe stans prop for at least making sense at times but every Bron Stan on here is a stupid troll :oldlol:

[dubeta]

LOOL what type of bullshit thread is this?


I could clearly argue that not only did LeBron not play bad in the 2011 Finals, but Wade was actually noticeable worse than LeBron in those finals.


If anything these wade stans/heat fans shouldve apologized to LeBron for those years of undeserved backlash against him.

[Droid101]

I could clearly argue that not only did LeBron not play bad in the 2011 Finals, but Wade was actually noticeable worse than LeBron in those finals.

So it's gone from the "Wade sabotage!" delusion to straight up lying about their performances.

Dubeta, you're off your game. Go take another few week break and re-think your approach here.

[eliteballer]

Wade got effed..

[superduper]

Dwyane Wade's Gamescore in 2012 and 2013 was higher than LeGOAT's in 2011 :(