Excerpts from Phil Jackson's book on MJ vs. Kobe.

[Indian guy]

http://www.foxsportswest.com/fox-sports-networks/story/Phil-Jackson-book-MJ-more-charismatic-th?blockID=902903&feedID=3707

[quote]Phil Jackson book: MJ more charismatic than Kobe
FOX SPORTS WEST STAFF |
Published: Thursday, May 16, 2013
Perhaps Los Angeles would prefer not to be reminded of this detail, but before he was theirs, Phil Jackson belonged — in the sense that any coach can belong, at least – to Chicago. He was the Bulls coach of the storied 1990s, winning six NBA championship rings. He was Michael Jordan's coach.

Before Kobe Bryant. Before the next five championships. Before he became Jeanie Buss's boyfriend and then fianc

[K Xerxes]

Cue in Kobe fanboys who say the 11 time champion who coached both of them doesn't know what he's talking about and has an anti-Kobe agenda.

But, let's be real, this is kind of all common knowledge.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I think this officially puts the comparisons to bed....(not that there were ANY to begin with).

[ShaqAttack3234]

Definitely going to get this book. I have Phil's other books and they've always been good, insightful reads about both his teams and opponents as well as basketball in general.

[DuMa]

a phil book when it was written when he has no ties to any organization and is free to say whatever he wants?

http://img.pandawhale.com/44950-Dis-gon-b-gud--this-is-gonna-b-28wH.gif

[daily]

Cue in Kobe fanboys who say the 11 time champion who coached both of them doesn't know what he's talking about and has an anti-Kobe agenda.

But, let's be real, this is kind of all common knowledge.
:facepalm

He didn't say anything bad about Bryant, just contrasting the differences

[chosen_wun]

* Jackson's daughter, Brooke, had been the victim of sexual assault by an athlete in college, and when the Bryant situation occurred, it "triggered all my unprocessed anger and tainted my perception of him," Jackson said.

[Rooster]

Cue in Kobe fanboys who say the 11 time champion who coached both of them doesn't know what he's talking about and has an anti-Kobe agenda.

But, let's be real, this is kind of all common knowledge.

I believed Phil was pretty accurate.

I am a Kobe apologist

But Jordan took smarter shots

And was a smarter player at both ends.

[KingBeasley08]

Jordan >>>>>>>>> Kobe in every category other than maybe love of the game

[K Xerxes]

:facepalm

He didn't say anything bad about Bryant, just contrasting the differences

Yeah, so? In the categories he mentioned, he pretty much said Jordan was better in all. I didn't say he said bad stuff about Kobe, but you know the extreme Kobe fans have issue with this.

[KG215]

"No question, Michael was a tougher, more intimidating defender," Jackson writes. "He could break through virtually any screen and shut down almost any player with his intense, laser-focused style of defense."

But...All-Defense Teams! Kobe has the most!

[crisoner]

* Jackson's daughter, Brooke, had been the victim of sexual assault by an athlete in college, and when the Bryant situation occurred, it "triggered all my unprocessed anger and tainted my perception of him," Jackson said.

WOW...did not know that.

[Magic 32]

Jackson considers the Lakers' Game 7 victory over the Boston Celtics in the 2010 NBA Finals the most satisfying of his career.

I like that, I like that alot.

Suck on that Chicago.

[Doranku]

Jordan was a better leader and defender than Kobe?

Wow, this is some really groundbreaking stuff from Phil here. :oldlol:

[Replay32]

This is obvious to anyone who's old enough to have seen both players careers. I'm interested in reading this book though.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I like that, I like that alot.

Suck on that Chicago.

Kobe shot 6/24 that game. Sly as a fox, Phil is, huh? :oldlol:

[ripthekik]

Good stuff. Also great to hear them being compared, 2 guys who approached the game with hard work, determination, and no shortcuts :applause:

[chosen_wun]

I like that, I like that alot.

Suck on that Chicago.
That was a subliminal shot by Phil, that they didn't need Kobe to win.

[Doranku]

Kobe shot 6/24 that game. Sly as a fox, Phil is, huh? :oldlol:

Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with it being the only Game 7 he has ever coached in the NBA Finals. Or the fact that his team trailed for the majority of the game, but stuck with it and grinded it out against a great defensive team.

He was clearly taking a subtle jab at Kobe!

[lakersfan2046]

Most of what Phil Jackson said is non controversial. I am a huge Kobe fan but I agree with everything Phil said

[Dragonyeuw]

a phil book when it was written when he has no ties to any organization and is free to say whatever he wants?

http://img.pandawhale.com/44950-Dis-gon-b-gud--this-is-gonna-b-28wH.gif

I've always said wait until Phil is done coaching and then you'll get the real scoop on how he feels about MJ and Kobe.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with it being the only Game 7 he has ever coached in the NBA Finals. Or the fact that his team trailed for the majority of the game, but stuck with it and grinded it out against a great defensive team.

He was clearly taking a subtle jab at Kobe!

It had ALOT to do w/ those things, no doubt, but don't underestimate PJax's "zen". There's a method to his madness - and taking little jabs at Kobe isn't necessarily beneath him. :oldlol:

[BlackVVaves]

Nothing I didn't know. Jordan was triple the defender Bryant was. Kobe's best years of defense were prior to his prime and peak, while Jordan's were during his prime and peak.

Jordan was a shut down defender that would simultaneously drop 30-5-6 on you.

This is generally something that players like Lebron and Kobe, as great as they are, simply don't have on their basketball resumes.

[kamil]

Nothing I didn't know. Jordan was triple the defender Bryant was. Kobe's best years of defense were prior to his prime and peak, while Jordan's were during his prime and peak.

Jordan was a shut down defender that would simultaneously drop 30-5-6 on you.

This is generally something that players like Lebron and Kobe, as great as they are, simply don't have on their basketball resumes.

Neither of these guys went 6/6 in championships either.

So far, LeBron* is 1/3 and a BIG asterisk next to his first ring.

[BlackVVaves]

Kobe shot 6/24 that game. Sly as a fox, Phil is, huh? :oldlol:

Not for nothing, but Doc Rivers has said many times that the Celtics lost that game to rebounding. And Kobe was the game's leading rebounder if I'm not mistaken.

When you're shot isn't falling, you have to find other ways to contribute to a win. Kobe had a horrible shooting night, but he and Pau dominated the boards, which lead to them getting second chance shots and limiting the Celtics to one shot once their defense stepped up in the second half.

I understand your affinity to stick it to Kobe stans here over the years, but that doesn't mean you have to ignore the good the guy's done, you know?

[Rose'sACL]

Neither of these guys went 6/6 in championships either.

So far, LeBron* is 1/3 and a BIG asterisk next to his first ring.
i get it. if you lose in the earlier rounds, that year counts as a success. if you lose in the finals, it is a bigger failure than losing in the first round.
Great First Take tier logic there. i bet you get a lot of likes on your ESPN's board comments.

[DMV2]

On the Game 7 quote -

I think that's more to due with the rivalry they had with Boston than "taking a jab at Kobe." I don't know where you guys came to that conclusion. I mean, not only was it an intense series but he avenged the 2008 Finals loss.

And he didn't really bash Kobe at all. Jordan was better than Kobe at everything that wasn't the 3-point arc.

[BlackVVaves]

On the Game 7 quote -

I think that's more to due with the rivalry they had with Boston than "taking a jab at Kobe." I don't know where you guys came to that conclusion. I mean, not only was it an intense series but he avenged the 2008 Finals loss.

And he didn't really bash Kobe at all. Jordan was better than Kobe at everything that wasn't the 3-point arc.

Posters who have an unhealthy loathing for Kobe will always grasp at straws to denounce his value.

Nothing new, really. Stans do the same exact thing, on the opposite side of the spectrum.

[kamil]

i get it. if you lose in the earlier rounds, that year counts as a success. if you lose in the finals, it is a bigger failure than losing in the first round.
Great First Take tier logic there. i bet you get a lot of likes on your ESPN's board comments.

So then.... MJ went for 6/6 but did phuck all in his previous years? You wanna compare, why dont you use the full picture?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not for nothing, but Doc Rivers has said many times that the Celtics lost that game to rebounding. And Kobe was the game's leading rebounder if I'm not mistaken.

When you're shot isn't falling, you have to find other ways to contribute to a win. Kobe had a horrible shooting night, but he and Pau dominated the boards, which lead to them getting second chance shots and limiting the Celtics to one shot once their defense stepped up in the second half.

I understand your affinity to stick it to Kobe stans here over the years, but that doesn't mean you have to ignore the good the guy's done, you know?

Honestly? I have no issues w/ Bean. The guy is a legend.

I'm just saying. Phil Jackson is a master manipulator. There's ALWAYS an ulterior motive with that guy.

[Glide2keva]

I like that, I like that alot.

Suck on that Chicago.He never had to coach a Game 7 in the Finals in Chicago. 5-6 was always enough to get the job done.

:cheers:

[sportjames23]

a phil book when it was written when he has no ties to any organization and is free to say whatever he wants?

http://img.pandawhale.com/44950-Dis-gon-b-gud--this-is-gonna-b-28wH.gif


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[hawke812]

1. Jordan had prime Phil Jackson; Kobe had a Phil Jackson that was unable to make road games.
2. Jordan had a stacked team, evidenced by them making it to the conference finals without Jordan; Lakers without Kobe for a season do not make playoffs ever.
3. Jordan played in the watered down era of early 90's basketball; Kobe did not.
4. Jordan could not win more than one playoff game without GOAT Scottie Pippen; Kobe won two championships without Shaq.

[sportjames23]

* Jackson's daughter, Brooke, had been the victim of sexual assault by an athlete in college, and when the Bryant situation occurred, it "triggered all my unprocessed anger and tainted my perception of him," Jackson said.


The rape jokes will definitely never end now.

[jzek]

There really is no comparison. Jordan was undefeated in the Finals and was always the FMVP.

/enddiscussion

[9erempiree]

In b4 Phil ask to coach Kobe again.

[Doctor Rivers]

1. Jordan had prime Phil Jackson; Kobe had a Phil Jackson that was unable to make road games.
2. Jordan had a stacked team, evidenced by them making it to the conference finals without Jordan; Lakers without Kobe for a season do not make playoffs ever.
3. Jordan played in the watered down era of early 90's basketball; Kobe did not.
4. Jordan could not win more than one playoff game without GOAT Scottie Pippen; Kobe won two championships without Shaq.

1. You're an idiot.

[General]

Bashing Kobe to sell some books, what a scumbag.

[9erempiree]

Phil also said in his first book that he would never coach Kobe again.

Him saying MJ is a better leader and defender? Take it for a grain of salt.

:facepalm

[General]

1. You're an idiot.
He has some good points:confusedshrug:

[sportjames23]

1. Jordan had prime Phil Jackson; Kobe had a Phil Jackson that was unable to make road games.
2. Jordan had a stacked team, evidenced by them making it to the conference finals without Jordan; Lakers without Kobe for a season do not make playoffs ever.
3. Jordan played in the watered down era of early 90's basketball; Kobe did not.
4. Jordan could not win more than one playoff game without GOAT Scottie Pippen; Kobe won two championships without Shaq.


LOL

1. So Phil from 2000-2002 was..?

2. Um, no. The Bulls did NOT make the Conference Finals without MJ. They only made it the SECOND ROUND. The Knicks and Pacers played in the Eastern Conference Finals that year. Why do stans forget this? Nevermind, forget I asked. Oh, and Kobe's Lakers weren't stacked? I guess having Shaq, Fisher, Horry and Fox and then later Gasol, Odom, Bynum and Artest means not having stacked teams. :rolleyes:

3. 90s Blazers, Suns, Jazz, Spurs, Rockets, Knicks, Pacers, Heat, Sonics = watered down era? Those teams would own this current NBA. Now, talk about watered down...

4. Yeah, Kobe replaced Shaq with Gasol, Bynum and Odom. Replace Pip with, say, David Robinson and MJ keeps winning rings without breaking stride.

The stans are gonna need some Preparation H for all the butthurt.

[sportjames23]

He has some good points:confusedshrug:

All refuted by me.

None of his points were good.

[The_Yearning]

Well, there you have it. Everyone hates a rapist.

[jzek]

Him saying MJ is a better leader and defender? Take it for a grain of salt.

:facepalm

Jordan = 6 rings in 6 finals appearances
Kobe = 5 rings in 7 finals appearances

Jordan = 6 FMVP in 6 finals appearances
Kobe = 2 FMVP in 7 finals appearances


Jordan is clearly superior when it mattered the most.

[Doctor Rivers]

He has some good points:confusedshrug:

You can't possibly believe those are good points. If so, then you're an idiot as well.

[9erempiree]

Jordan = 6 rings in 6 finals appearances
Kobe = 5 rings in 7 finals appearances

Jordan = 6 FMVP in 6 finals appearances
Kobe = 2 FMVP in 7 finals appearances


Jordan is clearly superior when it mattered the most.

Same damn thing.

FMVP is voted upon. They both won a lot of championships.

FMVP is voted upon. Kobe leads in career scoring and top 5 in assists in the post season. Those cannot be voted in.

[Doctor Rivers]

Kobe leads in career scoring and top 5 in assists in the post season.

wrong

[Darius]

Well that pretty much ends it.

MJ > Kobe.

From the guy who would unquestionably know best.

[tazb]

Same damn thing.

FMVP is voted upon. They both won a lot of championships.

FMVP is voted upon. Kobe leads in career scoring and top 5 in assists in the post season. Those cannot be voted in.

wtf kind of retarded post is this

[AlphaWolf24]

Cue in Kobe fanboys who say the 11 time champion who coached both of them doesn't know what he's talking about and has an anti-Kobe agenda.

But, let's be real, this is kind of all common knowledge.


- He said MJ was a better defender...and better leader for the majority of his career ( Kobe had to learn how to lead) :confusedshrug:

no sh!T!

- Phil said things that most fans would agree with.....the problem occurs when MJ stans get jimmies rustled when People/basketball fans also say Kobe is very close to MJ's overall basketball greatness/skillset....

and on many aspects Kobe has a very similar skillset with similar results...and some even better then Jordan.....wich Phil has also said multiple times.

- Is MJ better?...yes......Is Kobe close to MJ?.....yes...are they similar players with similar results?...absolutley.

[Solefade]

- He said MJ was a better defender...and better leader for the majority of his career ( Kobe had to learn how to lead) :confusedshrug:

no sh!T!

- Phil said things that most fans would agree with.....the problem occurs when MJ stans get jimmies rustled when People/basketball fans also say Kobe is very close to MJ's overall basketball greatness/skillset....

and on many aspects Kobe has a very similar skillset with similar results...and some even better then Jordan.....wich Phil has also said multiple times.

- Is MJ better?...yes......Is Kobe close to MJ?.....yes...are they similar players with similar results?...absolutley.

Uh no he is not close to MJ. Did Kobe copy MJ's style? Yes. Are they similar players with similar results? No.

[Burgz V2]

1. Jordan had prime Phil Jackson; Kobe had a Phil Jackson that was unable to make road games.
2. Jordan had a stacked team, evidenced by them making it to the conference finals without Jordan; Lakers without Kobe for a season do not make playoffs ever.
3. Jordan played in the watered down era of early 90's basketball; Kobe did not.
4. Jordan could not win more than one playoff game without GOAT Scottie Pippen; Kobe won two championships without Shaq.

wow.

one of these points could satisfy a terrible post on ISH. the fact that you managed to come up with FOUR horrendous contributions to this site is really impressive. bravo

[Burgz V2]

Kobe leads in career scoring and top 5 in assists in the post season. Those cannot be voted in.

it's ok to be a dumbass, but a lying dumbass is where I draw the line.

[AlphaWolf24]

Uh no he is not close to MJ. Did Kobe copy MJ's style? Yes. Are they similar players with similar results? No.


- Yes they are....they are very similar players.....

the top 2 greatest sg of alltime.....a decade of 28PPG 5reb and 5ast with 5 titles.......a decade of 31PPG 5reb 5ast with 6 titles....

- and they both have had very similar results....expecially for playing in diffrent era's.

[AlphaWolf24]

it's ok to be a dumbass, but a lying dumbass is where I draw the line.


He's #3 alltime playoff scoring and #7 alltime playoff assists....

close.

[Fox]

Only Kobe stans think Kobe is even close to Jordan on the all time list.

[SuperPippen]

:lol

at you fools acting like MJ was far and away a better player than Kobe.

MJ vs. Kobe is a legitimate comparison, and although MJ was better, acting as if he's miles ahead of Kobe is ridiculous.

[AlphaWolf24]

Only Kobe stans think Kobe is even close to Jordan on the all time list.

Majority of the basketball community has Kobe ranked from #5 - #7......

Majority of the basketball fanbase has MJ ranked #1 - #3

considering the History of the NBA.....and MJ and Kobe are the 2 greatest SG's....and 2 greatest players of thier era's

WTF is your idea of close?

[diamenz]

:lol

at you fools acting like MJ was far and away a better player than Kobe.

MJ vs. Kobe is a legitimate comparison, and although MJ was better, acting as if he's miles ahead of Kobe is ridiculous.

you're one of those cats that compares 96-98 mj to kobe. any era of kobe. kobe can't lay a finger on what mj showcased in the eighties and even early nineties.

kobe is as close as it comes to mj as far as sg's, but there's still a big gap.

[chosen_wun]

Majority of the basketball community has Kobe ranked from #5 - #7......

Majority of the basketball fanbase has MJ ranked #1 - #3

considering the History of the NBA.....and MJ and Kobe are the 2 greatest SG's....and 2 greatest players of thier era's

WTF is your idea of close?
:wtf:

Kobe has always been ranked 9-10 with Hakeem...

[chosen_wun]

Kobe 5-7...omfg..

[GrapeApe]

I think the gap between MJ and Kobe is pretty big. Kobe is a top 10 all time player and the 2nd greatest SG, but Jordan was just a different animal altogether. This is my opinion of course, but I think most people within basketball circles feel the same way.

[SwayDizzle]

- Yes they are....they are very similar players.....

the top 2 greatest sg of alltime.....a decade of 28PPG 5reb and 5ast with 5 titles.......a decade of 31PPG 5reb 5ast with 6 titles....

- and they both have had very similar results....expecially for playing in diffrent era's.
Truer words have never been spoken. MJ= 1 SG all time, KB = 2 SG all time. It doesn't get closer than that! There's no SG that's better than MJ and Kobe all time.

Now think about how many SGs the NBA has had throughout the years, n tell me the gap between MJ and Kobe is big. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe 5-7...omfg..


easily top 7.....

name 6 other player with 5 NBA Titles and over 30,000 points...

again...I'm talking basic simply logic that most fans use....



- no one gives a shit about advanced stats that prove Kevin Love was better then Moses Malone...

- anyone saying F'ing oscar Robertson or even Bird has or is a better overall player and has had a better career then Kobe should be muted

[AlphaWolf24]

I think the gap between MJ and Kobe is pretty big. Kobe is a top 10 all time player and the 2nd greatest SG, but Jordan was just a different animal altogether. This is my opinion of course, but I think most people within basketball circles feel the same way.


- of course when we talk about charisma or ability to connect to the fanbase and move shoes.....Jordan is unrivaled..

- he was special person and a special athlete.....no one comes close.

but what has happened on abasketball court.....Kobe is close to MJ...

close...not better.....but damn near

[SamuraiSWISH]

I think the gap between MJ and Kobe is pretty big. Kobe is a top 10 all time player and the 2nd greatest SG, but Jordan was just a different animal altogether. This is my opinion of course, but I think most people within basketball circles feel the same way.
Good post. No one in their right mind wouldn't call Kobe a top ten player of all-time ... at the very least top 15 on the staunchest of haters lists. Just too much longevity, accomplishments, and skill to be ignored. He's close to Jordan, more so in terms of skill and aesthetics to his game. Sometimes it blurs the reality of production and productivity between the two.

With that said, PJ highlights here the essence of what separates MJ and Kobe in terms of quality. Has nothing to do with marketing, moving shoes, or popularity. That's a separate issue where MJ is clearly leaps and bounds superior. In terms of game, ultimately what is the difference between THE best player of all-time (Jordan) and Kobe who is anywhere in the 7 - 12 range of best players of all-time:

MJ was the superior leader, easily. Players wanted to follow him, and whether the haters want to admit it or not, it was Jordan who molded Pippen into the superstar player he eventually turned into from 1992 on wards. MJ was also the more tenacious and consistent defender. Whether a Kobe fan wants to argue Kobe as a comparable scorer, he's close, but I take MJ's superior mid range game, attacking ability, and efficiency over Kobe's penchant quick trigger for the long ball and the possible superior long range jumper.

Phil points out Kobe was too focused on trying to be like MJ, or better. He was too focused on his ultimate legacy. MJ became the best by knocking down each individual challenge along the way, ultimately culminating in being the best. Kobe's potential could've been greater, if he wasn't focused on the wrong things.

He's close to Jordan, and that's where his career will end up. Best guard since MJ, #2 SG of all-time, closest in terms of aesthetics to Jordan's skill and mastery of the game. But he still isn't as good as MJ ... he didn't put it all together like Mike.

[sportjames23]

Good post. No one in their right mind wouldn't call Kobe a top ten player of all-time ... at the very least top 15 on the staunchest of haters lists. Just too much longevity, accomplishments, and skill to be ignored. He's close to Jordan, more so in terms of skill and aesthetics to his game. Sometimes it blurs the reality of production and productivity between the two.

With that said, PJ highlights here the essence of what separates MJ and Kobe in terms of quality. Has nothing to do with marketing, moving shoes, or popularity. That's a separate issue where MJ is clearly leaps and bounds superior. In terms of game, ultimately what is the difference between THE best player of all-time (Jordan) and Kobe who is anywhere in the 7 - 12 range of best players of all-time:

MJ was the superior leader, easily. Players wanted to follow him, and whether the haters want to admit it or not, it was Jordan who molded Pippen into the superstar player he eventually turned into from 1992 on wards. MJ was also the more tenacious and consistent defender. Whether a Kobe fan wants to argue Kobe as a comparable scorer, he's close, but I take MJ's superior mid range game, attacking ability, and efficiency over Kobe's penchant quick trigger for the long ball and the possible superior long range jumper.

Phil points out Kobe was too focused on trying to be like MJ, or better. He was too focused on his ultimate legacy. MJ became the best by knocking down each individual challenge along the way, ultimately culminating in being the best. Kobe's potential could've been greater, if he wasn't focused on the wrong things.

He's close to Jordan, and that's where his career will end up. Best guard since MJ, #2 SG of all-time, closest in terms of aesthetics to Jordan's skill and mastery of the game. But he still isn't as good as MJ ... he didn't put it all together like Mike.

Real talk. :cheers:

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

lol at some of these mj d!ck riders celebrating like they haven't won a title since '98. oh wait, a majority of these clowns are Miami Heat fans now. I wonder how odd it felt rooting against their "old team" for the past week. But lakers fans are supposed to be mad? anybody ever notice how it's always mj/kobe comparisons coming out of these goon's mouth, but then they be like in the same thread they created, "Kobe, Jordan...non comparable"? MJ been retired for ten years, move on fellas.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

didn't even notice indian guy created this thread. used to be a bulls fan when he first joined ish, now he all about lebron and the heat. :rockon:

[alleykat]

lol at some of these mj d!ck riders celebrating like they haven't won a title since '98. oh wait, a majority of these clowns are Miami Heat fans now. I wonder how odd it felt rooting against their "old team" for the past week. But lakers fans are supposed to be mad? anybody ever notice how it's always mj/kobe comparisons coming out of these goon's mouth, but then they be like in the same thread they created, "Kobe, Jordan...non comparable"? MJ been retired for ten years, move on fellas.

R u a laker fan?

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Uh no he is not close to MJ. Did Kobe copy MJ's style? Yes. Are they similar players with similar results? No.
you were ten when mj won his last championship. please tell us more..

[The-Legend-24]

If Kobe and Jordan switched places, Kobe would be the GOAT. Face it Jordan played in a weak era. Suns, Lakers without Kareem, Blazers in the finals LOL. Bulls were a bunch of vultures, picking up the pieces after all the great teams of the 80's broke down.

09 Magic > any team Jordan played in the finals.

[SamuraiSWISH]

lol at some of these mj d!ck riders celebrating like they haven't won a title since '98. oh wait, a majority of these clowns are Miami Heat fans now. I wonder how odd it felt rooting against their "old team" for the past week. But lakers fans are supposed to be mad? anybody ever notice how it's always mj/kobe comparisons coming out of these goon's mouth, but then they be like in the same thread they created, "Kobe, Jordan...non comparable"? MJ been retired for ten years, move on fellas.
LOL @ acting like it's some difficult task being a Laker fan. You guys never face adversity as a fan base. You were irrelvant from '92 - '96, a 4 to 5 year stretch and the fan base wasn't like it normally is ...

Bulls fans went from the top of the mountain (arguably greatest team / player ever) to the outhouse quickly, having to root for Tim Floyd / Eddie Robinson / Ron Mercer led teams ... and they still led the league in attendance.

Your silver spoon ass franchise always steals transcendent talents, or gets gifted them in the shadiest of fashions (Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, anyone?) ... Dwight Howard this past summer. You're spoiled.

Don't act like your allegiance as a fan, or your mettle as a fan has ever been tested. Lakers are always relevant because of their ideal location, and deep pockets. Your mexican fan base doesn't know jack shit about basketball. Stick to soccer, and claiming to be fans of the game.

If you guys were legit fans, you wouldn't knock the 90's era as being so weak (a 4 year stretch you were irrelevant) as being crap, just because you weren't competing for Finals during that stretch.

It's EASY to be a Laker fan. Try being a thick and thin fan of any of the other 28 ball clubs in the league, not named the Boston Celtics. That or go cut some grass, or watch FIFA ... because that's the only thing "Lakers fans" actually know about.

I see you guys when they go to clips outside of Staples. Nothing but spicks in yellow jerseys, drunk off tequila, acting a fool like they know the game of basketball.

You homos are spoiled with great players, and you put down any all time great who hasn't played in your jersey because you're THAT spoiled that a couple greats haven't played for the Lakers.

Don't you see what you guys say about MJ, Bird, and LeBron? It's pathetic. Your fan base is PATHETIC:


09 Magic > any team Jordan played in the finals.
See?

This clown ass nikka just claimed the pathetic 2009 Magic were better than the '91 Lakers, '92 Blazers, '93 Suns, '96 Sonics, '97 and '98 Jazz.

The 2009 Magic were one of the worst Finals competitors in the last 14 seasons. Competing for worst with 2007 Cavs, 1999 Knicks, 2002 and 2003 Nets.

Lakers fans / Kobe stans are beyond pathetic.

[sportjames23]

Kobe stans beyond mad at this point. :oldlol:

Ya'll kids need to worry about Lebron passing Kobe than worry about Kobe trying to catch MJ. Ain't gonna happen.

[alleykat]

LOL @ acting like it's some difficult task being a Laker fan. You guys never face adversity as a fan base. You were irrelvant from '92 - '96, a 4 to 5 year stretch and the fan base wasn't like it normally is ...

Bulls fans went from the top of the mountain (arguably greatest team / player ever) to the outhouse quickly, having to root for Tim Floyd / Eddie Robinson / Ron Mercer led teams ... and they still led the league in attendance.

Your silver spoon ass franchise always steals transcendent talents, or gets gifted them in the shadiest of fashions (Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, anyone?) ... Dwight Howard this past summer. You're spoiled.

Don't act like your allegiance as a fan, or your mettle as a fan has ever been tested. Lakers are always relevant because of their ideal location, and deep pockets. Your mexican fan base doesn't know jack shit about basketball. Stick to soccer, and claiming to be fans of the game.

If you guys were legit fans, you wouldn't knock the 90's era as being so weak (a 4 year stretch you were irrelevant) as being crap, just because you weren't competing for Finals during that stretch.

It's EASY to be a Laker fan. Try being a thick and thin fan of any of the other 28 ball clubs in the league, not named the Boston Celtics. That or go cut some grass, or watch FIFA ... because that's the only thing "Lakers fans" actually know about.

I see you guys when they go to clips outside of Staples. Nothing but spicks in yellow jerseys, drunk off tequila, acting a fool like they know the game of basketball.

You homos are spoiled with great players, and you put down any all time great who hasn't played in your jersey because you're THAT spoiled that a couple greats haven't played for the Lakers.

Don't you see what you guys say about MJ, Bird, and LeBron? It's pathetic. Your fan base is PATHETIC.

Awww snap cold blooded......don't do em like that man its too much....

Think the lakers fanbase hates more players than any other fanbase...

[sportjames23]

If Kobe and Jordan switched places, Kobe would be the GOAT. Face it Jordan played in a weak era. Suns, Lakers without Kareem, Blazers in the finals LOL. Bulls were a bunch of vultures, picking up the pieces after all the great teams of the 80's broke down.

09 Magic > any team Jordan played in the finals.


Your whole post is garbage, but the bold just confirms you don't know shit about basketball. :facepalm

[alleykat]

If Kobe and Jordan switched places, Kobe would be the GOAT. Face it Jordan played in a weak era. Suns, Lakers without Kareem, Blazers in the finals LOL. Bulls were a bunch of vultures, picking up the pieces after all the great teams of the 80's broke down.

09 Magic > any team Jordan played in the finals.

Try football dawg....

Basketball isn't ur thing

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

SamuraiSWISH seems like a real classy dude. :cheers: Must have something to do with that Chi-town educational system I hear so many wonderful things about. .

[G-Funk]

Good stuff. Also great to hear them being compared, 2 guys who approached the game with hard work, determination, and no shortcuts :applause:


:oldlol:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause:

[Ancient Legend]

If Kobe and Jordan switched places, Kobe would be the GOAT. Face it Jordan played in a weak era. Suns, Lakers without Kareem, Blazers in the finals LOL. Bulls were a bunch of vultures, picking up the pieces after all the great teams of the 80's broke down.

09 Magic > any team Jordan played in the finals.

Yeah, you know more about this topic than Phil Jackson.

If my grandma had balls, she would have been my granpa.

[alleykat]

SamuraiSWISH seems like a real classy dude. :cheers: Must have something to do with that Chi-town educational system I hear so many wonderful things about. .

The chief keef SAT prep

[The-Legend-24]

LOL @ acting like it's some difficult task being a Laker fan. You guys never face adversity as a fan base. You were irrelvant from '92 - '96, a 4 to 5 year stretch and the fan base wasn't like it normally is ...

Bulls fans went from the top of the mountain (arguably greatest team / player ever) to the outhouse quickly, having to root for Tim Floyd / Eddie Robinson / Ron Mercer led teams ... and they still led the league in attendance.

Your silver spoon ass franchise always steals transcendent talents, or gets gifted them in the shadiest of fashions (Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, anyone?) ... Dwight Howard this past summer. You're spoiled.

Don't act like your allegiance as a fan, or your mettle as a fan has ever been tested. Lakers are always relevant because of their ideal location, and deep pockets. Your mexican fan base doesn't know jack shit about basketball. Stick to soccer, and claiming to be fans of the game.

If you guys were legit fans, you wouldn't knock the 90's era as being so weak (a 4 year stretch you were irrelevant) as being crap, just because you weren't competing for Finals during that stretch.

It's EASY to be a Laker fan. Try being a thick and thin fan of any of the other 28 ball clubs in the league, not named the Boston Celtics. That or go cut some grass, or watch FIFA ... because that's the only thing "Lakers fans" actually know about.

I see you guys when they go to clips outside of Staples. Nothing but spicks in yellow jerseys, drunk off tequila, acting a fool like they know the game of basketball.

You homos are spoiled with great players, and you put down any all time great who hasn't played in your jersey because you're THAT spoiled that a couple greats haven't played for the Lakers.

:oldlol: Lakers > Bulls deal with it nigguh. A couple of titles in a weak era don't mean shit. This years Bobcats would be considered a contender back then..

[alleykat]

:oldlol: Lakers > Bulls deal with it nigguh. A couple of titles in a weak era don't mean shit. This years Bobcats would be considered a contender back then..

Nah.....didnt u read Phil Jackson's book? I suggest getting a copy man. Ill buy one for u

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

:oldlol: Lakers > Bulls deal with it nigguh. A couple of titles in a weak era don't mean shit. This years Bobcats would be considered a contender back then..
:lol kid was 12 when mj won his last title, his opinion means NADA.

kobe>mj is never gonna happen, but it was damn fun discussing for the past 15 years

[Ancient Legend]

Phil Jackson's opinion (13 rings and coached both) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Any of you random forum ballscratchers that contradict him.

[DonDadda59]

No shit, Phil.

How are you going to compare the GOAT to a guy who spent the first half of his career as not even the best player on his own team and then was an also ran to LeBronze during the second half? :confusedshrug:

[KG215]

I see a couple of the worst/biggest Kobe stans have chimed in with their useless opinion. Still waiting for Yao Ming's Foot to drop by and post some bullshit about DRtg, and kennethgriffin to post some links to fan polls on Bleacher Report.

[RRR3]

Even if Kobe was the GOAT, I don't think I would ever accept it. Worst fanbase of any player and it's not really close.

[Doranku]

No shit, Phil.

How are you going to compare the GOAT to a guy who spent the first half of his career as not even the best player on his own team and then was an also ran to LeBronze during the second half? :confusedshrug:

Hate to break it to you, but Jordan wouldn't be the best player on that Laker team either.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Hate to break it to you, but Jordan wouldn't be the best player on that Laker team either.

Just because Kobe wasn't better than Shaq doesn't mean Jordan isn't either.

Peak MJ ('90-93) is better than Shaq. '96 MJ is every bit as good as '01 and '02 Shaq, imo.

[DonDadda59]

Just because Kobe wasn't better than Shaq doesn't mean Jordan isn't either. Peak MJ ('90-93) is better than Shaq. '96 MJ is every bit as good as '01 and '02 Shaq, imo.

It's been bothering me for a while so I have to ask- the vampire in your avy... is that Blacula or someone else?

[AintNoSunshine]

Only thing Kobe has a good shot at beating jordan is if he becomes a GM after he retires

On the court? MJ is literally better at every single aspect

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's been bothering me for a while so I have to ask- the vampire in your avy... is that Blacula or someone else?

Gus from Psych, and yes, he's supposed to be Blacula. :cheers:

[Bandito]

PJax daughter was raped in college? So that's why he hated Kobe in 2004 for no reason.

[DonDadda59]

Gus from Psych, and yes, he's supposed to be Blacula. :cheers:

Nice :cheers:

[Bandito]

"Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way. When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game."Goddamn did he just owned Kobe with this comment:roll:

[DonDadda59]

PJax daughter was raped in college? So that's why he hated Kobe in 2004 for no reason.

Kobe probably did it :eek:

[daj0264]

It's been bothering me for a while so I have to ask- the vampire in your avy... is that Blacula or someone else?

bud from the cosby show

[hawke812]

LOL

1. So Phil from 2000-2002 was..?

2. Um, no. The Bulls did NOT make the Conference Finals without MJ. They only made it the SECOND ROUND. The Knicks and Pacers played in the Eastern Conference Finals that year. Why do stans forget this? Nevermind, forget I asked. Oh, and Kobe's Lakers weren't stacked? I guess having Shaq, Fisher, Horry and Fox and then later Gasol, Odom, Bynum and Artest means not having stacked teams. :rolleyes:

3. 90s Blazers, Suns, Jazz, Spurs, Rockets, Knicks, Pacers, Heat, Sonics = watered down era? Those teams would own this current NBA. Now, talk about watered down...

4. Yeah, Kobe replaced Shaq with Gasol, Bynum and Odom. Replace Pip with, say, David Robinson and MJ keeps winniStilng rings without breaking stride.

The stans are gonna need some Preparation H for all the butthurt.

1. 2009/10 Phil was a corpse. He couldn't even coach without almost dying.
2. Still further than Jordan ever got without GOAT Pippen
3. Those teams would get destroyed in today's NCAA Basketball, let alone the NBA.
4. All rode Kobe's coattails, never won a playoff series without Kobe. Same thing with Jordan, never won a playoff series without Pippen.
5. Gasol/Bynum/Odom=Jordan. Never won a playoff series on their own.

[DatAsh]

Just because Kobe wasn't better than Shaq doesn't mean Jordan isn't either.

Peak MJ ('90-93) is better than Shaq. '96 MJ is every bit as good as '01 and '02 Shaq, imo.

90-93 Jordan may be better than 00-02 Shaq, but I see no argument for second three peat Jordan, at all.

[Soundwave]

Phil's just basically saying what I think we all knew deep down.

MJ was natural, and I do think his leadership and presence is tremendously underrated. Scottie Pippen does not become Scottie Pippen without MJ being there.

His presence and charisma rubbed off on the other Bulls and Phil knows that. When MJ told his teammates "we're winning this game", I think they all genuinely believed it.

Kobe tried to emulate and force that, but it never quite came off as genuine. It was kinda phony and fake.

[Ancient Legend]

Kobe tried to emulate and force that, but it never quite came off as genuine. It was kinda phony and fake.

To those of us that saw both of MJ's and Kobe's careers, this is exactly what Kobe came off as: a poorman's Jordan that never credited Michael for his moves and instead listed Magic Johnson as his influence :oldlol:

I despised Kobe after his post-Shaq days, even more so when they were gifted Gasol. However, these past few seasons he has won me over with his post moves and skills that he's developed over the years. Still hate his long range chucking though.

[Magic 32]

Phil talking about social skills :oldlol: :lol :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

90-93 Jordan may be better than 00-02 Shaq, but I see no argument for second three peat Jordan, at all.

No doubt, 2000 Shaq is better than second three-peat Jordan. All seasons (circa 2001 and 2002 are better than '97 and '98 MJ as well).

Taking into account intangibles (mostly clutch play), '96 MJ, was every bit as impactful as Shaq in 2001 and 2002.

[Noob Saibot]

The Zen Master just murdered this comparison.

[VIntageNOvel]

i see some quality posters+true fans gathering here :applause:

Alphawolf, Rip, etc :applause:

need mr.jabbar and yao ming's foot :cheers:

[lakeshow1]

Kobe is my favorite player, I hated Jordan. But Jordan was the stronger player and this quote I think sums up the situation pretty well.

"Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way. When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game."

I would add too that Kobe had a tendency to disengage mentally from the game when he knew he was going to lose (finals, in particular). These two tendencies-- to either shoot too much or just stop shooting-- were marks on Kobe's legacy to me and confirmed that the space between he and Jordan was not reconcilable.

[Goldrush25]

Did Phil have anything positive to say in deference to Kobe in this book?

[lakeshow1]

Did Phil have anything positive to say in deference to Kobe in this book?

See I don't perceive his comments as being as negative as many of you here. There isn't a lot that separates top echelon athletes and it's sometimes difficult enumerate the things that do. The fact that Jackson can tell you why Jordan was better is not a slant on Kobe, in fact it's Jordan's greatness that allows him to do this. Jordan was just a level above.

[NBASTATMAN]

LOL @ acting like it's some difficult task being a Laker fan. You guys never face adversity as a fan base. You were irrelvant from '92 - '96, a 4 to 5 year stretch and the fan base wasn't like it normally is ...

Bulls fans went from the top of the mountain (arguably greatest team / player ever) to the outhouse quickly, having to root for Tim Floyd / Eddie Robinson / Ron Mercer led teams ... and they still led the league in attendance.

Your silver spoon ass franchise always steals transcendent talents, or gets gifted them in the shadiest of fashions (Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, anyone?) ... Dwight Howard this past summer. You're spoiled.

Don't act like your allegiance as a fan, or your mettle as a fan has ever been tested. Lakers are always relevant because of their ideal location, and deep pockets. Your mexican fan base doesn't know jack shit about basketball. Stick to soccer, and claiming to be fans of the game.

If you guys were legit fans, you wouldn't knock the 90's era as being so weak (a 4 year stretch you were irrelevant) as being crap, just because you weren't competing for Finals during that stretch.

It's EASY to be a Laker fan. Try being a thick and thin fan of any of the other 28 ball clubs in the league, not named the Boston Celtics. That or go cut some grass, or watch FIFA ... because that's the only thing "Lakers fans" actually know about.

I see you guys when they go to clips outside of Staples. Nothing but spicks in yellow jerseys, drunk off tequila, acting a fool like they know the game of basketball.

You homos are spoiled with great players, and you put down any all time great who hasn't played in your jersey because you're THAT spoiled that a couple greats haven't played for the Lakers.

Don't you see what you guys say about MJ, Bird, and LeBron? It's pathetic. Your fan base is PATHETIC:


See?

This clown ass nikka just claimed the pathetic 2009 Magic were better than the '91 Lakers, '92 Blazers, '93 Suns, '96 Sonics, '97 and '98 Jazz.

The 2009 Magic were one of the worst Finals competitors in the last 14 seasons. Competing for worst with 2007 Cavs, 1999 Knicks, 2002 and 2003 Nets.

Lakers fans / Kobe stans are beyond pathetic.



Kobe stans are too :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[lakeshow1]

I see you guys when they go to clips outside of Staples. Nothing but spicks in yellow jerseys, drunk off tequila, acting a fool like they know the game of basketball.


When you have to resort to this to make an argument, :facepalm

[NBASTATMAN]

Phil also said in his first book that he would never coach Kobe again.

Him saying MJ is a better leader and defender? Take it for a grain of salt.

:facepalm


Tex Winter said the same thing on their defensive abilities... :rockon:

[Magic 32]

LOL @ acting like it's some difficult task being a Laker fan. You guys never face adversity as a fan base. You were irrelvant from '92 - '96, a 4 to 5 year stretch and the fan base wasn't like it normally is ...

Bulls fans went from the top of the mountain (arguably greatest team / player ever) to the outhouse quickly, having to root for Tim Floyd / Eddie Robinson / Ron Mercer led teams ... and they still led the league in attendance.

Your silver spoon ass franchise always steals transcendent talents, or gets gifted them in the shadiest of fashions (Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, anyone?) ... Dwight Howard this past summer. You're spoiled.

Don't act like your allegiance as a fan, or your mettle as a fan has ever been tested. Lakers are always relevant because of their ideal location, and deep pockets. Your mexican fan base doesn't know jack shit about basketball. Stick to soccer, and claiming to be fans of the game.

If you guys were legit fans, you wouldn't knock the 90's era as being so weak (a 4 year stretch you were irrelevant) as being crap, just because you weren't competing for Finals during that stretch.

It's EASY to be a Laker fan. Try being a thick and thin fan of any of the other 28 ball clubs in the league, not named the Boston Celtics. That or go cut some grass, or watch FIFA ... because that's the only thing "Lakers fans" actually know about.

I see you guys when they go to clips outside of Staples. Nothing but spicks in yellow jerseys, drunk off tequila, acting a fool like they know the game of basketball.

You homos are spoiled with great players, and you put down any all time great who hasn't played in your jersey because you're THAT spoiled that a couple greats haven't played for the Lakers.

Don't you see what you guys say about MJ, Bird, and LeBron? It's pathetic. Your fan base is PATHETIC:


See?

This clown ass nikka just claimed the pathetic 2009 Magic were better than the '91 Lakers, '92 Blazers, '93 Suns, '96 Sonics, '97 and '98 Jazz.

The 2009 Magic were one of the worst Finals competitors in the last 14 seasons. Competing for worst with 2007 Cavs, 1999 Knicks, 2002 and 2003 Nets.

Lakers fans / Kobe stans are beyond pathetic.

Let see. Jealousy, homophobia and racism in just one post. Well done.

[TheBigVeto]

LOL @ acting like it's some difficult task being a Laker fan. You guys never face adversity as a fan base. You were irrelvant from '92 - '96, a 4 to 5 year stretch and the fan base wasn't like it normally is ...

Bulls fans went from the top of the mountain (arguably greatest team / player ever) to the outhouse quickly, having to root for Tim Floyd / Eddie Robinson / Ron Mercer led teams ... and they still led the league in attendance.

Your silver spoon ass franchise always steals transcendent talents, or gets gifted them in the shadiest of fashions (Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, anyone?) ... Dwight Howard this past summer. You're spoiled.

Don't act like your allegiance as a fan, or your mettle as a fan has ever been tested. Lakers are always relevant because of their ideal location, and deep pockets. Your mexican fan base doesn't know jack shit about basketball. Stick to soccer, and claiming to be fans of the game.

If you guys were legit fans, you wouldn't knock the 90's era as being so weak (a 4 year stretch you were irrelevant) as being crap, just because you weren't competing for Finals during that stretch.

It's EASY to be a Laker fan. Try being a thick and thin fan of any of the other 28 ball clubs in the league, not named the Boston Celtics. That or go cut some grass, or watch FIFA ... because that's the only thing "Lakers fans" actually know about.

I see you guys when they go to clips outside of Staples. Nothing but spicks in yellow jerseys, drunk off tequila, acting a fool like they know the game of basketball.

You homos are spoiled with great players, and you put down any all time great who hasn't played in your jersey because you're THAT spoiled that a couple greats haven't played for the Lakers.

Don't you see what you guys say about MJ, Bird, and LeBron? It's pathetic. Your fan base is PATHETIC:


See?

This clown ass nikka just claimed the pathetic 2009 Magic were better than the '91 Lakers, '92 Blazers, '93 Suns, '96 Sonics, '97 and '98 Jazz.

The 2009 Magic were one of the worst Finals competitors in the last 14 seasons. Competing for worst with 2007 Cavs, 1999 Knicks, 2002 and 2003 Nets.

Lakers fans / Kobe stans are beyond pathetic.

Great post. Will give positive rep when the rep system is back.

You spoke the honest truth.

[PHILA]

09 Magic > any team Jordan played in the finals.

:biggums:

[Round Mound]

[B]Jordan was a Much Better Defender Not Only Because He Was Smarter But Because His Incredible 1st Step, Strength of Arms and Hands, Superior Upper and Lower Torso, Faster, Quicker, Stronger etc.

Jordan Was Top 10 in DRT in the League Where Usually the Top 10 Are Big Men.

Jordan Was Also Top 10 in DWS...Goes To Say The Way He Blended With the Team.

There is Statistical Proof.

Kobe Bryant Was Never a Top 10 Defender in the League No Matter How Much Suck-ing He Got From the People Voting Him In the All NBA Defensive Teams.

Proof is Statistical. Impact. Efficiency. Not What We Like or Wan

[The-Legend-24]

Jordan was a Much Better Defender Not Only Because He Was Smarter But Because His Incredible 1st Step, Strength of Arms and Hands, Superior Upper and Lower Torso, Faster, Quicker, Stronger etc.

Dude was guarding players like John Starks night in, night out. :roll: :bowdown:

[no pun intended]

1. 2009/10 Phil was a corpse. He couldn't even coach without almost dying.
2. Still further than Jordan ever got without GOAT Pippen
3. Those teams would get destroyed in today's NCAA Basketball, let alone the NBA.
4. All rode Kobe's coattails, never won a playoff series without Kobe. Same thing with Jordan, never won a playoff series without Pippen.
5. Gasol/Bynum/Odom=Jordan. Never won a playoff series on their own.
http://4funz.com/Funny-Pictures/animals/cats/img-time-to-stop-posting-98

[Dragonyeuw]

LOL @ acting like it's some difficult task being a Laker fan. You guys never face adversity as a fan base. You were irrelvant from '92 - '96, a 4 to 5 year stretch and the fan base wasn't like it normally is ...

Bulls fans went from the top of the mountain (arguably greatest team / player ever) to the outhouse quickly, having to root for Tim Floyd / Eddie Robinson / Ron Mercer led teams ... and they still led the league in attendance.

Your silver spoon ass franchise always steals transcendent talents, or gets gifted them in the shadiest of fashions (Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, anyone?) ... Dwight Howard this past summer. You're spoiled.

Don't act like your allegiance as a fan, or your mettle as a fan has ever been tested. Lakers are always relevant because of their ideal location, and deep pockets. Your mexican fan base doesn't know jack shit about basketball. Stick to soccer, and claiming to be fans of the game.

If you guys were legit fans, you wouldn't knock the 90's era as being so weak (a 4 year stretch you were irrelevant) as being crap, just because you weren't competing for Finals during that stretch.

It's EASY to be a Laker fan. Try being a thick and thin fan of any of the other 28 ball clubs in the league, not named the Boston Celtics. That or go cut some grass, or watch FIFA ... because that's the only thing "Lakers fans" actually know about.

I see you guys when they go to clips outside of Staples. Nothing but spicks in yellow jerseys, drunk off tequila, acting a fool like they know the game of basketball.

You homos are spoiled with great players, and you put down any all time great who hasn't played in your jersey because you're THAT spoiled that a couple greats haven't played for the Lakers.

Don't you see what you guys say about MJ, Bird, and LeBron? It's pathetic. Your fan base is PATHETIC:




Oh snap!

:lebronamazed:

[fandarko]

Jordan >>>>>>>>> Kobe in every category other than maybe love of the game

Really?
I've been a MJ fan all my life and watched his entire NBA career.
He might have had a edge on Kobe in many things, as Jackson points out, but to say he was >>>>>>>> than Kobe is just delusional.
For one, Kobe was a better shooter with greater range.
Physically and style wise, they are almost identical. As for hang time, leaping and airial antics, Jordan benefited from the fact that there were far less high flying athletes around (if any) on the perimeter, contrast with his "air" style.
Kobe played in a league where you had VC, Tracy McGrady, Wade later...
MJ was not a better ball handler than Kobe.
Kobe won 5 titles.
MJ was better, but by a small margin. He did have more charisma and was a better leader. But technically, he has little over Kobe.

[fandarko]

- He said MJ was a better defender...and better leader for the majority of his career ( Kobe had to learn how to lead) :confusedshrug:

no sh!T!

- Phil said things that most fans would agree with.....the problem occurs when MJ stans get jimmies rustled when People/basketball fans also say Kobe is very close to MJ's overall basketball greatness/skillset....

and on many aspects Kobe has a very similar skillset with similar results...and some even better then Jordan.....wich Phil has also said multiple times.

- Is MJ better?...yes......Is Kobe close to MJ?.....yes...are they similar players with similar results?...absolutley.

This

[diamenz]

Really?
I've been a MJ fan all my life and watched his entire NBA career.
He might have had a edge on Kobe in many things, as Jackson points out, but to say he was >>>>>>>> than Kobe is just delusional.
For one, Kobe was a better shooter with greater range.
Physically and style wise, they are almost identical. As for hang time, leaping and airial antics, Jordan benefited from the fact that there were far less high flying athletes around (if any) on the perimeter, contrast with his "air" style.
Kobe played in a league where you had VC, Tracy McGrady, Wade later...
MJ was not a better ball handler than Kobe.
Kobe won 5 titles.
MJ was better, but by a small margin. He did have more charisma and was a better leader. But technically, he has little over Kobe.

mj had a better mid range game. mj didn't focus on threes because he'd rather drive and shoot from mid range. he was also better off the ball which means he wasn't sitting at the 3 point line waiting for a pass.

kobe played/is playing in an era that favors perimeter players.

mj didn't destroy defenders, he destroyed defenses.

little over kobe? ever watched eighties mj? he did w/e the f*** he wanted.

the only way kobe is comparable is 96/98 mj.

[Kblaze8855]

Physically and style wise, they are almost identical. As for hang time, leaping and airial antics, Jordan benefited from the fact that there were far less high flying athletes around (if any) on the perimeter, contrast with his "air" style.




Nique, Drexler, Grant Hill, Sprewell, Miner, Pippen, Eddie Jones, Isiah Rider, Ron Harper, Stackhouse, AI, Cooper, Doctor J, Penny and so on....didnt exist or were they not high flying?

Jordan still stood out among guys who were resting their ass cheeks on peoples forehead mid dunk

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn45/kblaze888555/th_Clyde.gif

Kobe doesnt appear as athletic as Jordan because he isnt.

Some today are/may have been.

Kobe just isnt one of them.

[PickernRoller]

Even if Kobe was the GOAT, I don't think I would ever accept it. Worst fanbase of any player and it's not really close.

Cmon now...:roll: :roll: :roll:

Hating through the T-mac era, then the LeQueen era. Hating on sucess is a hell of a dilemma.

------------------

I agree on most points. But that's is Phils views and that's that. Jordan is and will always be the Goat whether Phil says it or not. All the wild interpretations here are funny thou. + Phill and Kobe have always had beef - Kobe's personality I guess - even after all the patch up. Not that anyone cares.

Keep on with the stupidity.

[dh144498]

Jordan's better than Kobe? Wow what a groundbreaking discovery. Now all the anti-kobe trolls are in here having a good time like they just discovered the Americas. :oldlol:

[comerb]

Neither of these guys went 6/6 in championships either.

So far, LeBron* is 1/3 and a BIG asterisk next to his first ring.

Lebron is 1/3, which is telling enough.

The "big asterisk" comment just makes you look like a retarded fanboi w/ an agenda. Learn how to present an argument w/out overplaying your hand.

[fandarko]

Fixed.

[Goldrush25]

Really?
I've been a MJ fan all my life and watched his entire NBA career.
He might have had a edge on Kobe in many things, as Jackson points out, but to say he was >>>>>>>> than Kobe is just delusional.
For one, Kobe was a better shooter with greater range.
Physically and style wise, they are almost identical. As for hang time, leaping and airial antics, Jordan benefited from the fact that there were far less high flying athletes around (if any) on the perimeter, contrast with his "air" style.
Kobe played in a league where you had VC, Tracy McGrady, Wade later...
MJ was not a better ball handler than Kobe.
Kobe won 5 titles.
MJ was better, but by a small margin. He did have more charisma and was a better leader. But technically, he has little over Kobe.

Thing is, as great as Kobe is, as many accomplshments as Kobe accumulates, how much credit can he actually take for his game?

He gets credibility for emulating a legend, and it's still remarkable because he had to have the talent to pull it off. Let's face it, there were tons of MJ derivatives that never made it to the league, some that did but were horrible, so Kobe gets credit for doing the best imitation. But at the end of the day, he's still derivative to anyone that saw both of them play.

Someone comes along and paints a nearly-indistinguishable replica of the Mona Lisa from memory, that doesn't make them Leonardo de Vinci. Makes them a very talented painter that took someone else's template. Kobe is still an all time great but he never had any shot of surpassing MJ.

[tontoz]

I like that, I like that alot.

Suck on that Chicago.



Chicago won all of their finals without having to play a game 7. Suck on that.

[vinsanity2756]

1. Jordan had prime Phil Jackson; Kobe had a Phil Jackson that was unable to make road games.
2. Jordan had a stacked team, evidenced by them making it to the conference finals without Jordan; Lakers without Kobe for a season do not make playoffs ever.
3. Jordan played in the watered down era of early 90's basketball; Kobe did not.
4. Jordan could not win more than one playoff game without GOAT Scottie Pippen; Kobe won two championships without Shaq.

Watered down era ?! :lol.
That's a good one, watch some 90's games man, seriously.

[sportjames23]

These Kobe marks are so damn frustrated. Shit's hilarious. :oldlol:

Like I said, ya'll need to stay in your lane. Worry about Lebron passing Bean on the all-time list and not Kobe trying to catch the GOAT.

[AlphaWolf24]

These Kobe marks are so damn frustrated. Shit's hilarious. :oldlol:

Like I said, ya'll need to stay in your lane. Worry about Lebron passing Bean on the all-time list and not Kobe trying to catch the GOAT.


"5 beats 1...." - Michael Jordan April 2013

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

"5 beats 1...." - Michael Jordan April 2013

I hate this argument...but well done. :oldlol:

[DetroitPistonFan]

Even if Kobe was the GOAT, I don't think I would ever accept it. Worst fanbase of any player and it's not really close.
You haven't met Michael Jordan fans. You would hate them more.

[chosen_wun]

If Kobe and Jordan switched places, Kobe would be the GOAT. Face it Jordan played in a weak era. Suns, Lakers without Kareem, Blazers in the finals LOL. Bulls were a bunch of vultures, picking up the pieces after all the great teams of the 80's broke down.

09 Magic > any team Jordan played in the finals.
Oh my god...

[sportjames23]

You haven't met Michael Jordan fans. You would hate them more.

Please, son. MJ fans don't have to toss out stats or rewrite the past to know who's the GOAT who are the pretenders. And judging by your avy, you must be still pissed about 1991 when the Bulls ended the Pistons mini-dynasty.

[sportjames23]

"5 beats 1...." - Michael Jordan April 2013


I'll leave Kobe and Lebron fans to argue that.

Inb4 Shaq, Gasol, etc.

[AlphaWolf24]

I'll leave Kobe and Lebron fans to argue that.

Inb4 Shaq, Gasol, etc.

NB4 1 - 10 in the playoffs without Pippen...

NB4 MJ retires and the Bulls are the 3rd best team in the league...

:banana: yay this fun...

[Dro]

To those of us that saw both of MJ's and Kobe's careers, this is exactly what Kobe came off as: a poorman's Jordan that never credited Michael for his moves and instead listed Magic Johnson as his influence :oldlol:

I despised Kobe after his post-Shaq days, even more so when they were gifted Gasol. However, these past few seasons he has won me over with his post moves and skills that he's developed over the years. Still hate his long range chucking though.
This is basically exactly how I feel...

[raptorfan_dr07]

Damn, Samurai Swoosh killed Kobe trolls/Lakers fans with his one post :roll: :bowdown:

Everything he said was true. Everything Phil said is true.



- anyone saying F'ing oscar Robertson or even Bird has or is a better overall player and has had a better career then Kobe should be muted

Oh look the biggest f*cking dumba$$ on this forum aside from kennethgriffin. Bird was a better shooter, rebounder, playmaker, and leader than Kobe. Bird was a smarter scorer. Bird won 3 rings as the best player on his team. Bird has more MVPs. Bird didn't ride the coatails of the arguably the most dominant player in NBA history for more than half his rings. Sit the f*ck down and shut the f*ck up, kid. You're not fooling anyone with the whole "I've watched more basketball, forgotten more basketball" BS. You're a pimply faced teenage dumba$$ who started watching the NBA in 2006. You're the exact same thing as the Lebron trolls you claim to hate.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe is my favorite player, I hated Jordan. But Jordan was the stronger player and this quote I think sums up the situation pretty well.

"Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way. When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game."

I would add too that Kobe had a tendency to disengage mentally from the game when he knew he was going to lose (finals, in particular). These two tendencies-- to either shoot too much or just stop shooting-- were marks on Kobe's legacy to me and confirmed that the space between he and Jordan was not reconcilable.
Truth

[chazzy]

LOL @ acting like it's some difficult task being a Laker fan. You guys never face adversity as a fan base. You were irrelvant from '92 - '96, a 4 to 5 year stretch and the fan base wasn't like it normally is ...

Bulls fans went from the top of the mountain (arguably greatest team / player ever) to the outhouse quickly, having to root for Tim Floyd / Eddie Robinson / Ron Mercer led teams ... and they still led the league in attendance.

Your silver spoon ass franchise always steals transcendent talents, or gets gifted them in the shadiest of fashions (Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, anyone?) ... Dwight Howard this past summer. You're spoiled.

Don't act like your allegiance as a fan, or your mettle as a fan has ever been tested. Lakers are always relevant because of their ideal location, and deep pockets. Your mexican fan base doesn't know jack shit about basketball. Stick to soccer, and claiming to be fans of the game.

If you guys were legit fans, you wouldn't knock the 90's era as being so weak (a 4 year stretch you were irrelevant) as being crap, just because you weren't competing for Finals during that stretch.

It's EASY to be a Laker fan. Try being a thick and thin fan of any of the other 28 ball clubs in the league, not named the Boston Celtics. That or go cut some grass, or watch FIFA ... because that's the only thing "Lakers fans" actually know about.

I see you guys when they go to clips outside of Staples. Nothing but spicks in yellow jerseys, drunk off tequila, acting a fool like they know the game of basketball.

You homos are spoiled with great players, and you put down any all time great who hasn't played in your jersey because you're THAT spoiled that a couple greats haven't played for the Lakers.

Don't you see what you guys say about MJ, Bird, and LeBron? It's pathetic. Your fan base is PATHETIC:


See?

This clown ass nikka just claimed the pathetic 2009 Magic were better than the '91 Lakers, '92 Blazers, '93 Suns, '96 Sonics, '97 and '98 Jazz.

The 2009 Magic were one of the worst Finals competitors in the last 14 seasons. Competing for worst with 2007 Cavs, 1999 Knicks, 2002 and 2003 Nets.

Lakers fans / Kobe stans are beyond pathetic.
What's with the racism? Chill the fukk out :oldlol:

[TheWalkman]

Kobetards getting all kinds of butt hurt in this thread.

http://i.imgur.com/UlHclJm.jpg

[Kiddlovesnets]

Its about time to stop comparing Kobe to Jordan when the latter is clearly better on almost every aspect on and off the floor.
:rolleyes:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Please, son. MJ fans don't have to toss out stats or rewrite the past to know who's the GOAT who are the pretenders. And judging by your avy, you must be still pissed about 1991 when the Bulls ended the Pistons mini-dynasty.
Oh he's been salty about it for a minute. Apparently MJ is the worst human being, "scum" off the court? How, I don't know.

[TheMan]

i get it. if you lose in the earlier rounds, that year counts as a success. if you lose in the finals, it is a bigger failure than losing in the first round.
Great First Take tier logic there. i bet you get a lot of likes on your ESPN's board comments.
Hey doofus, nobody gives LeBron a hard time because of his first Finals, yeah he played like garbage but he was a young guy leading the Cavs vs a legendary Spurs team, I'll give you that one.

Explain why James shouldn't be critisized for the 2011 Finals though:confusedshrug:, LBJ was already considered the NBA's best player when he hooked up with another elite player and then he crapped his pants and got outscored by a bench player.

No, cockgobbler, that isn't something we just gon' pretend never happened.

[sportjames23]

NB4 1 - 10 in the playoffs without Pippen...

NB4 MJ retires and the Bulls are the 3rd best team in the league...

:banana: yay this fun...


Bulls lose to the Knicks in the 2nd Round without MJ.

Pip doesn't win shit without MJ.

Kobe has to team up with Gasol to make the playoffs/get out the 1st Round.


Yup, sure is fun. :rockon:

[CAstill]

Damn, Samurai Swoosh killed Kobe trolls/Lakers fans with his one post :roll: :bowdown:

Everything he said was true. Everything Phil said is true.



Oh look the biggest f*cking dumba$$ on this forum aside from kennethgriffin. Bird was a better shooter, rebounder, playmaker, and leader than Kobe. Bird was a smarter scorer. Bird won 3 rings as the best player on his team. Bird has more MVPs. Bird didn't ride the coatails of the arguably the most dominant player in NBA history for more than half his rings. Sit the f*ck down and shut the f*ck up, kid. You're not fooling anyone with the whole "I've watched more basketball, forgotten more basketball" BS. You're a pimply faced teenage dumba$$ who started watching the NBA in 2006. You're the exact same thing as the Lebron trolls you claim to hate.

Shut the f*ck up. Your opinion is wack. I loved Bird he was the nasty
before Jordan and was a GOAT candidate but NO he wasn't better
than Kobe. At all. Bird would tell you himself. Bird would of got
tortured by Kobe on the court.

[Inactive]

Shut the f*ck up. Your opinion is wack. I loved Bird he was the nasty
before Jordan and was a GOAT candidate but NO he wasn't better
than Kobe. At all. Bird would tell you himself. Bird would of got
tortured by Kobe on the court.You mean if they guarded each other? Bird could dominate Kobe in the post, out muscle him, and shoot right over him. Kobe could probably blow by Bird, and definitely create space for jumpers. They'd never be able to guard one another 1 on 1. Kobe would probably be more likely to win, but I don't think he'd be able to embarrass Bird.

IDK who would have more positive impact in an ordinary game, but it's not ridiculous to say Bird. Kobe is a better scorer, and on ball defender, but Bird is easily better in passing, rebounding, and intangibles (rotations, hard fouls, hustle plays, etc.).

[TheMan]

1. 2009/10 Phil was a corpse. He couldn't even coach without almost dying.
2. Still further than Jordan ever got without GOAT Pippen
3. Those teams would get destroyed in today's NCAA Basketball, let alone the NBA.
4. All rode Kobe's coattails, never won a playoff series without Kobe. Same thing with Jordan, never won a playoff series without Pippen.
5. Gasol/Bynum/Odom=Jordan. Never won a playoff series on their own.
i
This literally is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in ISH:applause: :bowdown:
Yes, teams led by Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson, David Robinson, Shawn Kemp, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Gary Payton would get owned by college kids because those players I mentioned are scrubs...:rolleyes:

[diamenz]

i
This literally is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in ISH:applause:
:bowdown: Yes, teams led by Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson, David Robinson, Shawn Kemp, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Gary Payton would get owned by college kids because those players I mentioned are scrubs...:rolleyes:

today's nba is nothing but a cluster**** of pnr's, threes shot 4 seconds into the clock, wide open lanes and dunks. unfortunately the new school heads are brainwashed into thinking this is superior to the fundamentally sound mind game that pro basketball once was.

[Doranku]

Phil Jackson ‏@PhilJackson11 21h
Listen friends of bball; don

[IncarceratedBob]

[QUOTE=Doranku]Phil Jackson ‏@PhilJackson11 21h
Listen friends of bball; don

[Doranku]

Notice he put MJ first.
Because MJ played first. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[TheMan]

Really?
I've been a MJ fan all my life and watched his entire NBA career.
He might have had a edge on Kobe in many things, as Jackson points out, but to say he was >>>>>>>> than Kobe is just delusional.
For one, Kobe was a better shooter with greater range.
Physically and style wise, they are almost identical. As for hang time, leaping and airial antics, Jordan benefited from the fact that there were far less high flying athletes around (if any) on the perimeter, contrast with his "air" style.
Kobe played in a league where you had VC, Tracy McGrady, Wade later...
MJ was not a better ball handler than Kobe.
Kobe won 5 titles.
MJ was better, but by a small margin. He did have more charisma and was a better leader. But technically, he has little over Kobe.
So we gon pretend Nique, Clyde the Glide, Dr J, Shawn Kemp etc never existed? Every era had guys who could "fly", MJ was just the guy who could do it the best:applause:

[AlphaWolf24]

[QUOTE=Doranku]Phil Jackson ‏@PhilJackson11 21h
Listen friends of bball; don

[TheMan]

PJax has all the Kobe kids running to the hills:oldlol: All the usual gang of idiots are here but where's Yao Ming's Foot, Nick Young, Kobe143 and Mr Jabaar? Still waiting for them to chime in with their nuggets:lol

[Goldrush25]

anyone who obsess's over Kobe vs MJ should just listen to Phil...

- MJ was a better defender and finisher around the rim.....Kobe a better shooter and facilitator with the ball.

- MJ is the best...we know this.....but there will never be another Bean....Kobe has put himself right up there next to Jordan....







- Jordan gambled with Mafioso Sharks.....Kobe jumps into Shark infested waters........both had no fear:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


I don't know if "next to Jordan" is appropriate. What Kobe did is be Jordan essentially. He did what all of the rest of us did when we went to the playground and tried to do all of MJ's moves. He was just the best in the world at it. And for that he deserves a ton of credit.

But when all is said and done, all can see that he's a Jordan derivative. Kobe says he modeled part of his game after Magic, but I don't see it. I see all MJ. So how much can someone get for using someone's else's template? Clearly he's a HOF but the derivative component counts against him.

Being a HOF player isn't only about career achievements. A player's impact and contribution to fostering the continued growth of the game has to be taken into account. Kobe's career achievements are rivaled only by, what, 5 or fewer players? But quite honestly I can think of a number of players that had a greater impact on the game than he did. Hakeem Olajawon, for instance...his career achievements don't come close to Kobe's but the way he played the position, the way he set the standard for the center position is unquestionably greater than Kobe's impact on his position, IMHO. He wasn't derivative. Whenever I looked at Hakeem I knew it was something unique and original.

Phil Jackson is splitting hairs. They are the same player. But that means that the greatness that is attributed to Kobe always has to be shared with MJ since he was the original.

[sundizz]

I don't know if "next to Jordan" is appropriate. What Kobe did is be Jordan essentially. He did what all of the rest of us did when we went to the playground and tried to do all of MJ's moves. He was just the best in the world at it. And for that he deserves a ton of credit.

But when all is said and done, all can see that he's a Jordan derivative. Kobe says he modeled part of his game after Magic, but I don't see it. I see all MJ. So how much can someone get for using someone's else's template? Clearly he's a HOF but the derivative component counts against him.

Being a HOF player isn't only about career achievements. A player's impact and contribution to fostering the continued growth of the game has to be taken into account. Kobe's career achievements are rivaled only by, what, 5 or fewer players? But quite honestly I can think of a number of players that had a greater impact on the game than he did. Hakeem Olajawon, for instance...his career achievements don't come close to Kobe's but the way he played the position, the way he set the standard for the center position is unquestionably greater than Kobe's impact on his position, IMHO. He wasn't derivative. Whenever I looked at Hakeem I knew it was something unique and original.

Phil Jackson is splitting hairs. They are the same player. But that means that the greatness that is attributed to Kobe always has to be shared with MJ since he was the original.

So if this is how you think, do you discount what MJ did because Dr. J did it before him? You think Dr. J patented having abnormally huge hands?

It is such a stupid stupid stupid thing to say that Kobe is derivative. Kobe is selfish, Kobe is prolly a bad teammate, Kobe may/may not have had illegit sexual relations in Colorado, but his impact on basketball should not be questioned.

He doesn't have the star impact of Jordan in the US, but that is more a product of his era than his abilities. I am travelling right now and am in Beijing. I went to a huge popular court the other day and the only jerseys i saw were 8's and 24's.

Jordan rode the explosion of television, and Kobe has ridden the explosion of the interactive web. It is much easier to hate on someone in this youtube era.

I think Jordan > Kobe as a player, but Jordan <<< many players < Kobe as a person, and as a basketball lover and enthusiast. Jordan is/was a complete dick. If he had internet on him 24-7 the world would never have adored him as much as they do now. Also, his team was amazing. Bulls minus Jordan were still a top 5 team in the league every single year they won a chip.

[Goldrush25]

So if this is how you think, do you discount what MJ did because Dr. J did it before him? You think Dr. J patented having abnormally huge hands?

It is such a stupid stupid stupid thing to say that Kobe is derivative. Kobe is selfish, Kobe is prolly a bad teammate, Kobe may/may not have had illegit sexual relations in Colorado, but his impact on basketball should not be questioned.

He doesn't have the star impact of Jordan in the US, but that is more a product of his era than his abilities. I am travelling right now and am in Beijing. I went to a huge popular court the other day and the only jerseys i saw were 8's and 24's.

Jordan rode the explosion of television, and Kobe has ridden the explosion of the interactive web. It is much easier to hate on someone in this youtube era.

I think Jordan > Kobe as a player, but Jordan <<< many players < Kobe as a person, and as a basketball lover and enthusiast. Jordan is/was a complete dick. If he had internet on him 24-7 the world would never have adored him as much as they do now. Also, his team was amazing. Bulls minus Jordan were still a top 5 team in the league every single year they won a chip.

When I say derivative, I'm speaking only in terms of style of play. Of course there are physical differences between the two. But anyone that's seen the careers of both players knows that every move that Kobe makes on the court is what we saw MJ do. And it's just not honest to say otherwise. Someone could make a Youtube video with every move that Kobe has ever done, and we'd find video of MJ doing that same move. That video, played side-by-side would be eye-opening to kids that didn't see MJ play.

(EDIT - Someone already did it http://youtu.be/v27Hk5OIe-k)

Certainly Kobe has left an indelible mark on the game. I'm just saying that because he was an MJ derivative, his impact is mostly limited to upholding the Lakers legacy of excellence, and not necessarily any way we view the game. On the other hand, Shaq came in the league and changed the way we view the game. So did Tim Duncan. So did Magic. I don't know what Kobe did that hadn't been done before him. But I can be swayed if someone presents a persuasive argument for him.

Don't know why you brought up Dr. J's hands vs MJ's, as that comparison bears no relevance to this conversation. I'm not speaking on physical attributes, just their game. And no one would ever say that MJ played the game like Dr. J.

And I'm purely speaking in terms of on-court performance. I couldn't care less about MJ did with his gambling, what Kobe did in Colorado or the crap going on with his parents. Has no bearing on my opinion of them as players. I don't get into all of that stuff, I just enjoy athletes for what they are, entertainment.

[Nevaeh]

PJax has all the Kobe kids running to the hills:oldlol: All the usual gang of idiots are here but where's Yao Ming's Foot, Nick Young, Kobe143 and Mr Jabaar? Still waiting for them to chime in with their nuggets:lol

I'm willing to bet that a few of those guys were sock accounts designed to make Kobe fans look like raving lunatics. Now that Phil has laid the hammer down, maybe they don't feel the need to "role play" anymore.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Nevaeh]

So if this is how you think, do you discount what MJ did because Dr. J did it before him? You think Dr. J patented having abnormally huge hands?

It is such a stupid stupid stupid thing to say that Kobe is derivative. Kobe is selfish, Kobe is prolly a bad teammate, Kobe may/may not have had illegit sexual relations in Colorado, but his impact on basketball should not be questioned.

He doesn't have the star impact of Jordan in the US, but that is more a product of his era than his abilities. I am travelling right now and am in Beijing. I went to a huge popular court the other day and the only jerseys i saw were 8's and 24's.

Jordan rode the explosion of television, and Kobe has ridden the explosion of the interactive web. It is much easier to hate on someone in this youtube era.

I think Jordan > Kobe as a player, but Jordan <<< many players < Kobe as a person, and as a basketball lover and enthusiast. Jordan is/was a complete dick. If he had internet on him 24-7 the world would never have adored him as much as they do now. Also, his team was amazing. Bulls minus Jordan were still a top 5 team in the league every single year they won a chip.


Geeze, talk about a cop out explaination. So you don't think Jordan had any "haters" back in the day? And it's not like Jordan fell off the planet, once the internet took off either. Your post comes off like a person yelling "It's not FAIR Jordan is as popular as he is", but on the flip side, you're being a hypocrite, talking about how many Kobe jerseys are sold in cities across the world.

Jordan is "adored" for how he played basketball, how he broke his game into distinct styles, elevated his teammates, helped Pip develop into a shut down defender on defense and a showman on offense, how he helped put Phil in the spotlight, at a time when most coaches stayed in the backgound, and on and on.

It's no fluke that NBA2k game sales spiked tremendously, after MJ and the classic Bulls were added to the series. That's cultural impact right there, and Jordan is the only player in history to have it on such a consistent basis. Why? because of how he played the game, not because he was "nice".

And yes, Kobe was as "derivative" as any player can be of another player, in the history of Pro Sports. Now, as you can see, he's trying to backpeddle away from being seen as a "clone" of MJ, now that he knows that he's stuck hearing "You're good, but not MJ level good" for the rest of his life.

[tpols]

Jordan, after MJ and the classic Bulls were added to the series. That's cultural impact right there, and Jordan is the only player in history to have it on such a consistent basis. Why? because of how he played the game, not because he was "nice".
.
LOL it's because of how he was branded.. His rise to stardom occurred during the media, technological, and economic boom of the 90s.

MJ in the 60s is a better Oscar Robertson or Dr. J.. And he isn't half as well known as he is now.

[Nevaeh]

LOL it's because of how he was branded.. His rise to stardom occurred during the media, technological, and economic boom of the 90s.

MJ in the 60s is a better Oscar Robertson or Dr. J.. And he isn't half as well known as he is now.

And this too, is a cop out reply, based on the fact that there were plenty of other star players during that time as well. You had Barkley, Dominique, Larry Johnson, Zo Mourning, Penny hardaway, Shaq, etc. Peeps talk like Jordan was the only player in the league who was getting commercial deals during those days.

There's only one reson, and one reason ONLY that his marketing actually worked, and that was how he played the game, and elevated his level of play during the playoffs. Explain to me then, how come guys who benefitted the most from the internet boom still can't touch MJ's economic impact, being available to anyone who may wanna check them out?

I'll wait.

[Soundwave]

LOL it's because of how he was branded.. His rise to stardom occurred during the media, technological, and economic boom of the 90s.

MJ in the 60s is a better Oscar Robertson or Dr. J.. And he isn't half as well known as he is now.

Well beyond the TV argument there are obvious racial issues as to why an African American wouldn't be able to achieve the same level of popularity in the 1960s versus the 1990s period.

Jordan was just hugely entertaining to watch, basketball benefited from the television era more than other sport I think because of the highlight reel quality of basketball.

You didn't have to be a basketball fan to watch Michael Jordan and be amazed at the things he was doing on the basketball court (the dunks, hanging in the air, laying the ball in between 2/3 defenders, etc.).

Beyond that though I think Jordan was simply more aware and a better showman than Dr. J or previous basketball stars. From early in his career he was well aware that people were coming to basketball games to watch him and he would not take nights off.

[tpols]

And this too, is a cop out reply, based on the fact that there were plenty of other star players during that time as well. You had Barkley, Dominique, Larry Johnson, Zo Mourning, Penny hardaway, Shaq, etc. Peeps talk like Jordan was the only player in the league who was getting commercial deals during those days.

There's only one reson, and one reason ONLY that his marketing actually worked, and that was how he played the game, and elevated his level of play during the playoffs. Explain to me then, how come guys who benefitted the most from the internet boom still can't touch MJ's economic impact, being available to anyone who may wanna check them out?

I'll wait.
I don't think you got what I was saying.

MJ happened to be the best player in the league just as all of the innovations we enjoy today came up. If prime MJ played in the 70s or 60s, he wouldn't have gotten 1/10 the exposure.

He could've won 15 chips and would've been as well known as bill Russell is today.. Which is pretty much unknown to the general pop. MJ literally came up at the perfect time to showcase his abilities to vast audiences and receive that much attention.

[tpols]

Nev, you want to act like Jordans impact is the only reason his brand sold so well and he raked in so many dollars.

If that was the case lets look at how much money Kareem and wilt and Russel raked in since there impact is at worst 9.5/10 to Jordans 10/10. Altogether those three COMBINED have accounted for 1/100th of what Jordan has made. Is Jordan 300x better than each of them?:oldlol:

Nope.. reason Jordan sold like he did is because he was a GOAT candidate coming up during the birth of the information age. And the other GOAT candidates came way before him

[The-Legend-24]

PJax has all the Kobe kids running to the hills:oldlol: All the usual gang of idiots are here but where's Yao Ming's Foot, Nick Young, Kobe143 and Mr Jabaar? Still waiting for them to chime in with their nuggets:lol
:sleeping

Dude was fortunate to play in the weakest era ever. He would only win 1 ring in this era.

FACT.

Shit, replace Jordan with Melo and that team still wins 6.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:sleeping

Dude was fortunate to play in the weakest era ever. He would only win 1 ring in this era.

FACT.

Shit, replace Melo with Jordan and that team still wins 6.

Uh oh, retard alert!! :oldlol:

[Heavincent]

Idiots in this thread acting as if Phil was taking a shot at Kobe or something :oldlol:

[secund2nun]

Kobe, who is the most overrated player in NBA history, should never be compared with Jordan.

[rmt]

I think Jordan > Kobe as a player, but Jordan <<< many players < Kobe as a person, and as a basketball lover and enthusiast. Jordan is/was a complete dick. If he had internet on him 24-7 the world would never have adored him as much as they do now. Also, his team was amazing. Bulls minus Jordan were still a top 5 team in the league every single year they won a chip.

Disagree with you on this. No matter how much of an ASS MJ was, he didn't get charged with RAPE. As a woman, there's nothing MJ did (trash talking, gambling, etc) that's as bad as rape.

Was listening to an interview with DRob. Some tidbits:

At their first meeting, MJ said, "I'm gonna dunk on you big man, I'm gonna dunk on you." It took him awhile - a fast break with Scottie and DRob chose to defend Scottie.

At an airport (I'm guessing the Olympics), MJ said to him, " Bet you my luggage comes out before yours." :roll:

Strange thing is that DRob seemed so okay with MJ's personality - so accepting that he was so competitive.

[rmt]

Nope.. reason Jordan sold like he did is because he was a GOAT candidate coming up during the birth of the information age. And the other GOAT candidates came way before him

And what do you think his exposure would be like now with widespread internet, cable, satellite, cell phones, twitter, NBATV, etc.? By your logic, Kobe is the one who should be GOAT candidate just because of exposure.

MJ > Kobe. MJ is at the top of the top 10. Kobe near the bottom. And it ain't because of when he came up or the birth of the information age.

[sportjames23]

:sleeping

Dude was fortunate to play in the weakest era ever. He would only win 1 ring in this era.

FACT.

Shit, replace Jordan with Melo and that team still wins 6.


Ban this idiot.

[tpols]

And what do you think his exposure would be like now with widespread internet, cable, satellite, cell phones, twitter, NBATV, etc.? By your logic, Kobe is the one who should be GOAT candidate just because of exposure.

MJ > Kobe. MJ is at the top of the top 10. Kobe near the bottom. And it ain't because of when he came up or the birth of the information age.
No shit.. Kobe isnt a GOAT candidate.

Still made stupid money though.. a lot more than some other GOAT candidates.

Which speaks to my point even more that money generated =/= impact. Its straight aesthetics and marketing.

[Magic 32]

Disagree with you on this. No matter how much of an ASS MJ was, he didn't get charged with RAPE. As a woman, there's nothing MJ did (trash talking, gambling, etc) that's as bad as rape.

Was listening to an interview with DRob. Some tidbits:

At their first meeting, MJ said, "I'm gonna dunk on you big man, I'm gonna dunk on you." It took him awhile - a fast break with Scottie and DRob chose to defend Scottie.

At an airport (I'm guessing the Olympics), MJ said to him, " Bet you my luggage comes out before yours." :roll:

Strange thing is that DRob seemed so okay with MJ's personality - so accepting that he was so competitive.

Kobe was charged with rape. .....................charged.

[DFish24]

Lebron, who is the most overrated player in NBA history, should never be compared with Jordan.

Fixed

[rmt]

Kobe was charged with rape. .....................charged.

And he didn't buy his way out of it. Like he didn't buy Vanessa her big rock. Like he didn't buy watches for his team mates when he won his MVP.

[Magic 32]

And he didn't buy his way out of it. Like he didn't buy Vanessa her big rock. Like he didn't buy watches for his team mates when he won his MVP.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6mb34JApK1ranhnao1_400.gif

Some sound journalism right there.

[Ne 1]

Disagree with you on this. No matter how much of an ASS MJ was, he didn't get charged with RAPE. As a woman, there's nothing MJ did (trash talking, gambling, etc) that's as bad as rape.


He did let his dad get killed though.

[Doranku]

And he didn't buy his way out of it. Like he didn't buy Vanessa her big rock. Like he didn't buy watches for his team mates when he won his MVP.
He must have also bought the other semen samples on that tramp's underwear too, huh?

[AlphaWolf24]

So if this is how you think, do you discount what MJ did because Dr. J did it before him? You think Dr. J patented having abnormally huge hands?

It is such a stupid stupid stupid thing to say that Kobe is derivative. Kobe is selfish, Kobe is prolly a bad teammate, Kobe may/may not have had illegit sexual relations in Colorado, but his impact on basketball should not be questioned.

He doesn't have the star impact of Jordan in the US, but that is more a product of his era than his abilities. I am travelling right now and am in Beijing. I went to a huge popular court the other day and the only jerseys i saw were 8's and 24's.

Jordan rode the explosion of television, and Kobe has ridden the explosion of the interactive web. It is much easier to hate on someone in this youtube era.

I think Jordan > Kobe as a player, but Jordan <<< many players < Kobe as a person, and as a basketball lover and enthusiast. Jordan is/was a complete dick. If he had internet on him 24-7 the world would never have adored him as much as they do now. Also, his team was amazing. Bulls minus Jordan were still a top 5 team in the league every single year they won a chip.


QFT

- No realist shit has ever been spoken....

I commend you for taking the high road and actually taking time to spit knowledge...


well said

[bdreason]

I like that, I like that alot.

Suck on that Chicago.


No offense, but it was probably his most satisfying win... because it was the worst championship team he ever coached.

[sportjames23]

So much anger from Kobe fans in this thread. :oldlol:

[MAC system]

Kobe a better shooter and facilitator with the ball.


Not sure if serious

[Ne 1]

I remember Kobe saying this and he's 100 percent right

"I sacrificed quite a bit in individual numbers and MVPs and NBA Finals [MVPs] and all this other stuff," Bryant said. "Phil [Jackson] used to come to us as a team and let me take over during the march to the Finals. Then in the Finals, which was mostly Eastern Conference teams that didn't have any centers, we went through Shaq. Those are things I was willing to sacrifice. And you have to have that sacrifice if that dynamic

[ReturnofJPR]

you're one of those cats that compares 96-98 mj to kobe. any era of kobe. kobe can't lay a finger on what mj showcased in the eighties and even early nineties.

kobe is as close as it comes to mj as far as sg's, but there's still a big gap.

Quoted for Truth

[Poochymama]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]I remember Kobe saying this and he's 100 percent right

"I sacrificed quite a bit in individual numbers and MVPs and NBA Finals [MVPs] and all this other stuff," Bryant said. "Phil [Jackson] used to come to us as a team and let me take over during the march to the Finals. Then in the Finals, which was mostly Eastern Conference teams that didn't have any centers, we went through Shaq. Those are things I was willing to sacrifice. And you have to have that sacrifice if that dynamic

[Leviathon1121]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]I remember Kobe saying this and he's 100 percent right

"I sacrificed quite a bit in individual numbers and MVPs and NBA Finals [MVPs] and all this other stuff," Bryant said. "Phil [Jackson] used to come to us as a team and let me take over during the march to the Finals. Then in the Finals, which was mostly Eastern Conference teams that didn't have any centers, we went through Shaq. Those are things I was willing to sacrifice. And you have to have that sacrifice if that dynamic

[Asukal]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]I remember Kobe saying this and he's 100 percent right

"I sacrificed quite a bit in individual numbers and MVPs and NBA Finals [MVPs] and all this other stuff," Bryant said. "Phil [Jackson] used to come to us as a team and let me take over during the march to the Finals. Then in the Finals, which was mostly Eastern Conference teams that didn't have any centers, we went through Shaq. Those are things I was willing to sacrifice. And you have to have that sacrifice if that dynamic

[diamenz]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]I remember Kobe saying this and he's 100 percent right

"I sacrificed quite a bit in individual numbers and MVPs and NBA Finals [MVPs] and all this other stuff," Bryant said. "Phil [Jackson] used to come to us as a team and let me take over during the march to the Finals. Then in the Finals, which was mostly Eastern Conference teams that didn't have any centers, we went through Shaq. Those are things I was willing to sacrifice. And you have to have that sacrifice if that dynamic

[Greg Oden 50]

Phil finally said the TRUTH :banana:

[Round Mound]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]I remember Kobe saying this and he's 100 percent right

"I sacrificed quite a bit in individual numbers and MVPs and NBA Finals [MVPs] and all this other stuff," Bryant said. "Phil [Jackson] used to come to us as a team and let me take over during the march to the Finals. Then in the Finals, which was mostly Eastern Conference teams that didn't have any centers, we went through Shaq. Those are things I was willing to sacrifice. And you have to have that sacrifice if that dynamic

[oh the horror]

:roll: :facepalm :rolleyes: :no:

The Right Thing to Say: I WAS VERY LUCKY TO PLAY WITH SHAQ and WIN 3 RINGS...THROUGH HIM and I WAS VERY LUCKY TO PLAY WITH GASOL, ODOM AND BYNUM A TWIN TOWER SYSTEM.


The bigger joke is you mentioning Bynum. Dude was a zero factor in those rings man. Just stop.

[HardwoodLegend]

The bigger joke is you mentioning Bynum. Dude was a zero factor in those rings man. Just stop.

He was still a big body in the paint on the defensive end.

Having two big bodies like that is a luxury, period.

[Round Mound]

He was still a big body in the paint on the defensive end.

Having two big bodies like that is a luxury, period.

:applause:

[TheBigVeto]

But when all is said and done, all can see that he's a Jordan derivative. Kobe says he modeled part of his game after Magic, but I don't see it.

He meant his game off the court - being unfaithful to his wife.

[DMAVS41]

The bigger joke is you mentioning Bynum. Dude was a zero factor in those rings man. Just stop.

So was Tyson Chandler a zero factor for the Mavs?

Chandler of course played better defense and played a bigger role, but it wasn't all that different than the role Bynum played...not to mention Bynum can actually score the ball on his own.

Chandler was a 8/9 player that played great defense
Bynum was a 9/7 player in 10 and played solid defense

Bynum also produces that in like 6 less minutes per game.

Must be nice to have a player on a team that is a zero factor that produces almost as well as the 2nd or 3rd best player on a title winning team in significantly less minutes.

Oh...and in 11 when the Mavs played the Lakers? Bynum averaged 14/10 in the playoffs.

[Magic 32]

Chandler was a 8/9 player that played great defense
Bynum was a 9/7 player in 10 and played solid defense


:oldlol:



Oh...and in 11 when the Mavs played the Lakers? Bynum averaged 14/10 in the playoffs.

and shot 47%

What a weak and random argument anyway.

[DMV2]

The bigger joke is you mentioning Bynum. Dude was a zero factor in those rings man. Just stop.
It's well-known by fans who actually watches the game instead of the scoreboard that having Bynum on the floor means you get the best of Gasol.

The only non-factor thing about Bynum during the 2008-10 run was that he wasn't giving the ball. They didn't design plays for him. His role was to grab rebounds and bang with the opposing bigs to make Gasol's life easier. Bynum did that!

2008 Bynum misses the playoffs, Lakers lost in the Finals.
2009 and 2010 Bynum plays, Gasol did well and Lakers won back-to-back.

2011 and 2012, Bynum's role totally changed. He was no longer the garbage pick-up guy. He was now the co-#2 option. With that change, Gasol's game also changed, for the worst.

[Magic 32]

2008 Bynum misses the playoffs, Lakers lost in the Finals.
2009 and 2010 Bynum plays, Gasol did well and Lakers won back-to-back.


You could say the same thing about Ariza/Artest (who averaged more min. than Bynum).

Bynum was a bit player in 09 and 10.

:hammerhead:

[DMV2]

You could say the same thing about Ariza/Artest (who averaged more min. than Bynum).

Bynum was a bit player in 09 and 10.

:hammerhead:
Did you even read my entire statement? Ariza and Artest don't affect Gasol's play.

[Magic 32]

Did you even read my entire statement? Ariza and Artest don't affect Gasol's play.


Gasol and Bynum rarely played well at the same time in 09 and 10.

Also:

08 Celtics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>09 Magic and 10 Celtics

[DMV2]

Gasol and Bynum rarely played well at the same time in 09 and 10.

Also:

08 Celtics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>09 Magic and 10 Celtics
2010 Finals, they were great together the first three games before Bynum knees became an issue. And you could see Gasol struggling a bit in Game 4 and 5 once that happened.

And again, it was well-known by most people that when Bynum is on the floor, Gasol was a whole lot better because of it. Bynum made the game much easier for Gasol.

Stats won't do Bynum's impact justice. That's seems to be what you're arguing at, same goes for Oh, The Horror who said Bynum was zero factor in those b-2-b titles. Not true at all.

[Magic 32]

.

And again, it was well-known by most people that when Bynum is on the floor, Gasol was a whole lot better because of it. Bynum made the game much easier for Gasol.



Fisher also made life easier for Kobe.

Bynum had the impact of a role player. End of story.

[Doctor Rivers]

Phil Jackson: "I don't think I've ever been as close to a player as I've been with Kobe."

[CAstill]

2010 Finals, they were great together the first three games before Bynum knees became an issue. And you could see Gasol struggling a bit in Game 4 and 5 once that happened.

And again, it was well-known by most people that when Bynum is on the floor, Gasol was a whole lot better because of it. Bynum made the game much easier for Gasol.

Stats won't do Bynum's impact justice. That's seems to be what you're arguing at, same goes for Oh, The Horror who said Bynum was zero factor in those b-2-b titles. Not true at all.


You say Bynum has health issues in a finals and then go on to claim he was a factor in them? Bynum was a role player and never had any games as even as good as Mario Chalmers did last year in the finals. Bynum being a factor would of brought home 3 peat. Didn't happen.

[dh144498]

Phil Jackson: "I don't think I've ever been as close to a player as I've been with Kobe."

this.

[sportjames23]

Phil Jackson: "I don't think I've ever been as close to a player as I've been with Kobe."


Well, when you have to coddle someone, I guess you do get close to them. :lol