No amount of #1 picks will ever make up for losing LeBron.

[Orlando Magic]

lol. ;)

I'm serious though. We're talking arguable GOAT when it's all over with.

[Remix]

lol. ;)

I'm serious though. We're talking arguable GOAT when it's all over with.
No were not.

[Kews1]

Somebodys mad

[brandonislegend]

Stay Salty

[GOBB]

Kyrie Irving is a special player who has a chance to be amongst the top 10 PGs of all time. Sky is the limit in regards to his place in history. Early however no question but this isnt that much of a "potential" statement. As far as an unproven player who a fan feels will be amazing. Kyrie has shown brilliance on the court. Kid is clutch as hell. He wont be as good as Bron. But he could lessen the blow if the Cavs build a legitimate contender around him. That remains to be seen.

Lucky ass franchise.

[veilside23]

they're doing it so that lebron comes back to cleveland :D

[Orlando Magic]

Salty? WTF? I don't give a ****.

Know how many Magic games I watched last year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch next year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch if they become a contender overnight? 0 except nationally televised and playoffs.

I'm done rooting for the Magic. They **** it up too much. I just like to enjoy the NBA in general now.

[inclinerator]

Salty? WTF? I don't give a ****.

Know how many Magic games I watched last year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch next year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch if they become a contender overnight? 0 except nationally televised and playoffs.

I'm done rooting for the Magic. They **** it up too much. I just like to enjoy the NBA in general now.
lol

[Doctor Rivers]

Salty? WTF? I don't give a ****.

Know how many Magic games I watched last year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch next year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch if they become a contender overnight? 0 except nationally televised and playoffs.

I'm done rooting for the Magic. They **** it up too much. I just like to enjoy the NBA in general now.

More like you love to taste the Bron's c0ck

[Jameerthefear]

Salty? WTF? I don't give a ****.

Know how many Magic games I watched last year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch next year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch if they become a contender overnight? 0 except nationally televised and playoffs.

I'm done rooting for the Magic. They **** it up too much. I just like to enjoy the NBA in general now.
disgrace. change your name.

[tikay0]

I hope you're joking.

You're telling me Irving, Noel, and Wiggins wouldn't make up for Lebron?

[Nash]

Orlando winners of this. They avoid getting 200 pound C/PF with limited offense, they get to develop Vucevic and they get McLemore who fits them more.

[kamil]

Salty? WTF? I don't give a ****.

Know how many Magic games I watched last year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch next year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch if they become a contender overnight? 0 except nationally televised and playoffs.

I'm done rooting for the Magic. They **** it up too much. I just like to enjoy the NBA in general now.

You sound like any and every other Miami Heat fan.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Salty? WTF? I don't give a ****.

Know how many Magic games I watched last year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch next year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch if they become a contender overnight? 0 except nationally televised and playoffs.

I'm done rooting for the Magic. They **** it up too much. I just like to enjoy the NBA in general now.

As a laker fan i am mad because magic didnt win the pick.....

Noel would b Lakers jersey

[inclinerator]

I hope you're joking.

You're telling me Irving, Noel, and Wiggins wouldn't make up for Lebron?
noel and wiggins are scrubs

[Le Shaqtus]

Orlando winners of this. They avoid getting 200 pound C/PF with limited offense, they get to develop Vucevic and they get McLemore who fits them more.

This, I'm hoping Cavs take Noel first so we don't draft him like the idiots we are.

[albas89]

Orlando winners of this. They avoid getting 200 pound C/PF with limited offense, they get to develop Vucevic and they get McLemore who fits them more.
They should draft Porter and f**k Wizards up.:lol

[tazb]

Good post. :applause:

[Meticode]

Orlando winners of this. They avoid getting 200 pound C/PF with limited offense, they get to develop Vucevic and they get McLemore who fits them more.
Cleveland has had some wierd top 5 picks recently. Thompson and Waiters were sleeper picks and no one was expecting them and they turned out well. Thompson just cmae off a 10/10 season and Waiters struggled slightly but still was second amoung rookies in scoring. I expect the Cavaliers will pick either Noel or Otto. If they pick Burke or McLemore and pull a Minnesota I'm going to be WTF

[Orlando Magic]

disgrace. change your name.

Haha, dude I started following the Magic in 1992 when I was 9 years old. I watched every single season for 20 years. I had enough of them tossing away superstars and mismanaging rosters and cap.

Shaq was leaving no matter what. Not Orlando's fault.

They ****ed McGrady and they mishandled the Dwight situation.

Tired of it.

If they change ownership I'll root for them again but until then...

Also... I'd change my name if they'd let me but there's no way that's going to happen. Only people that could do that is/are the ADMIN(s)... so... yeah... not happening.

[Lebron23]

Ben Mclemore will be the best player or top 2 player in this draft class.

[monkeypox]

Kyrie wins one game in the finals and its already an upgrade on the LeBron era.

[d.bball.guy]

If I were you, I would be happy the Magic didn't get the pick. They would just select Noel, then he becomes a superstar but fail to win a title, and go take his talents to the Lakers on free agency.

[Skip Bayless]

Well for one, they won't have to watch a 1 hour special from an attention whore anymore, nor watch a guy hog the ball and stat pad all night for 40+ minutes.

[InspiredLebowski]

4 top 4 picks in 3 years. No excuses.

[jzek]

If Wade continues to regress, we might see LBJ with Irving in a year.

[Byobob]

Kyrie wins one game in the finals and its already an upgrade on the LeBron era.

They haven't even sniffed playoffs yet you're talking about Kyrie carrying his team to the finals. :lol :lol :lol

[PJR]

Kyrie wins one game in the finals and its already an upgrade on the LeBron era.

He can try getting a playoff berth in the Eastern Confernce first. Also can try staying on the court as well.

[Lebron23]

Kyrie wins one game in the finals and its already an upgrade on the LeBron era.


LeBron wins his 2nd Finals MVp, and he officially surpasses Kobe in the all the all time lists. Irving needs to lead his team in the playoffs first before you compare him to LeBron.

[Goldrush25]

Salty? WTF? I don't give a ****.

Know how many Magic games I watched last year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch next year? 0.

Know how many Magic games I'm going to watch if they become a contender overnight? 0 except nationally televised and playoffs.

I'm done rooting for the Magic. They **** it up too much. I just like to enjoy the NBA in general now.

People are going to give you isht for this post, but I actually applaud you for it.

Look, follow who you want. Watching sports should be fun, not having your day, week or month ruined because a team you like didn't win. It's for entertainment. I learned that a couple of years ago myself.

[longtime lurker]

lol. ;)

I'm serious though. We're talking arguable GOAT when it's all over with.

Hey it's not the Cavs fault that Lebron was too much of a coward to stay and try to win out on his own team.

[Orlando Magic]

4 top 4 picks in 3 years. No excuses.

This.

[Goldrush25]

Hey it's not the Cavs fault that Lebron was too much of a coward to stay and try to win out on his own team.
Actually it is their fault. When you have a superstar you surround him with at least one additional star talent. Bulls did it for MJ. Lakers did it for Kobe. Who did the Cavs put around Lebron but bums?

[longtime lurker]

Actually it is their fault. When you have a superstar you surround him with at least one additional star talent. Bulls did it for MJ. Lakers did it for Kobe. Who did the Cavs put around Lebron but bums?

Lebron the only player that could have back to back 60 win teams still have people claim he was surrounded by garbage. :oldlol:

[Orlando Magic]

Lebron the only player that could have back to back 60 win teams still have people claim he was surrounded by garbage. :oldlol:

Name three players in the history of the NBA that have taken a team to 60+ wins consecutively without a truly legit second option?

I'll be waiting.

[Goldrush25]

Lebron the only player that could have back to back 60 win teams still have people claim he was surrounded by garbage. :oldlol:

You didn't refute anything I just said.

Obviously when I say he had bums I don't literally mean bums. Lebron was surrounded by NBA-caliber players. But relatively speaking (relative to stars), they were bums and no one can deny it.

Who on any of his teams was close to prime Scottie Pippen?

Who on any of his teams was close to prime Shaquille O'Neal?

[9erempiree]

Haha, dude I started following the Magic in 1992 when I was 9 years old. I watched every single season for 20 years. I had enough of them tossing away superstars and mismanaging rosters and cap.

Shaq was leaving no matter what. Not Orlando's fault.

They ****ed McGrady and they mishandled the Dwight situation.

Tired of it.

If they change ownership I'll root for them again but until then...

Also... I'd change my name if they'd let me but there's no way that's going to happen. Only people that could do that is/are the ADMIN(s)... so... yeah... not happening.

Pathetic gonna pathetic.

Contact admin and they will change your name.

:facepalm

Leave that name to a real fan.

[FreezingTsmoove]

People are going to give you isht for this post, but I actually applaud you for it.

Look, follow who you want. Watching sports should be fun, not having your day, week or month ruined because a team you like didn't win. It's for entertainment. I learned that a couple of years ago myself.

One of the main reasons I stopped watching/rooting for the knicks. Years of pain but the icing on the cake was Melo and the gang admitting they weren't playing hard for Mike D

[The Real JW]

Cleveland has the assets to pull off a blockbuster trade like the Rockets did last year. It's gonna happen.

[longtime lurker]

You didn't refute anything I just said.

Obviously when I say he had bums I don't literally mean bums. Lebron was surrounded by NBA-caliber players. But relatively speaking (relative to stars), they were bums and no one can deny it.

Who on any of his teams was close to prime Scottie Pippen?

Who on any of his teams was close to prime Shaquille O'Neal?

Because what you said is bull shit. The team was built around Lebron and he had approval of the moves the team made. Talent does not equal success. Who would lose on a team with Wade and Chris Bosh oh wait! I remember reading that the Cavs had a deal with the Raptors to bring Chris Bosh into the fold during the 2010 off season, but obviously Lebron was too busy taking his talents to South Beach.

[longtime lurker]

Name three players in the history of the NBA that have taken a team to 60+ wins consecutively without a truly legit second option?

I'll be waiting.

That's great what's your point? Oh lemme guess Lebron was the one and only reason the Cavs had back to back 60 win teams. That's why he managed to do that on the Heat in 2010 and 2011.....:rolleyes:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's great what's your point? Oh lemme guess Lebron was the one and only reason the Cavs had back to back 60 win teams. That's why he managed to do that on the Heat in 2010 and 2011.....:rolleyes:

Uh oh!! OP embarrassed himself again. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Haha, dude I started following the Magic in 1992 when I was 9 years old. I watched every single season for 20 years. I had enough of them tossing away superstars and mismanaging rosters and cap.

Shaq was leaving no matter what. Not Orlando's fault.

They ****ed McGrady and they mishandled the Dwight situation.

Tired of it.

If they change ownership I'll root for them again but until then...

Also... I'd change my name if they'd let me but there's no way that's going to happen. Only people that could do that is/are the ADMIN(s)... so... yeah... not happening.
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnqvrsQiG51qa38qko1_500.gif

[Goldrush25]

Because what you said is bull shit. The team was built around Lebron and he had approval of the moves the team made. Talent does not equal success. Who would lose on a team with Wade and Chris Bosh oh wait! I remember reading that the Cavs had a deal with the Raptors to bring Chris Bosh into the fold during the 2010 off season, but obviously Lebron was too busy taking his talents to South Beach.

It's BS because you're incapable of scoring any points in this debate?

You still haven't refuted anything I've said, just attempted to redirect.

Look, bottom line is the Cavaliers had YEARS to build around Lebron James. They didn't. It's not Lebron James job to be the GM as well.

The Bulls and Lakers of old got it. Jerry Krause traded for Scottie Pippen. Jerry West traded for Kobe Bryant and brought in Shaq. That's what you do when you have a once-in-a-generation talent. You don't surround him with relative bums.

And that's what Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao are. Relative to me, they're All-World, but relative to NBA All-Stars, they suck.

[longtime lurker]

It's BS because you're incapable of scoring any points in this debate?

You still haven't refuted anything I've said, just attempted to redirect.

Look, bottom line is the Cavaliers had YEARS to build around Lebron James. They didn't. It's not Lebron James job to be the GM as well.

The Bulls and Lakers of old got it. Jerry Krause traded for Scottie Pippen. Jerry West traded for Kobe Bryant and brought in Shaq. That's what you do when you have a once-in-a-generation talent. You don't surround him with relative bums.

And that's what Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao are. Relative to me, they're All-World, but relative to NBA All-Stars, they suck.

No it's BS because if I point out that hey the Cavs built a 60 win team around Lebron not the perfect team but a contender you'll just say well it was all because of Lebron.

If I point out to you that the Cavs had the highest payroll in the NBA so yes they were willing to spend money but probably allocated it incorrectly you'll just say blah blah blah bums.

If I point out that the Cavs actually had a deal in place to bring in Bosh you'll probably say that I'm just making it up and I have no proof........

oh wait http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5357607

No one knew how good Kobe and Scottie would be become. Did Dirk, Duncan or Hakeem have a Pippen/Kobe? Did the 04 Pistons? Yeah that's what I thought.

[MetsPackers]

No it's BS because if I point out that hey the Cavs built a 60 win team around Lebron not the perfect team but a contender you'll just say well it was all because of Lebron.

If I point out to you that the Cavs had the highest payroll in the NBA so yes they were willing to spend money but probably allocated it incorrectly you'll just say blah blah blah bums.

If I point out that the Cavs actually had a deal in place to bring in Bosh you'll probably say that I'm just making it up and I have no proof........

oh wait http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5357607

No one knew how good Kobe and Scottie would be become. Did Dirk, Duncan or Hakeem have a Pippen/Kobe? Did the 04 Pistons? Yeah that's what I thought.


Dude give up fighting this dumbass point. There's a reason that you have not mentioned a single name of any of his teammates in your posts, and that's because you know they're trash lol. Idk why you're trying to sit here and deny the well known fact that Lebron had shit teammates in CLE, and once he got good ones you couldn't keep him out of the finals. The best player Lebron ever had was prime Mo Williams :oldlol: . Every other "big name" he had was beyond washed up by the time he got there. I started a thread about ranking the finals losers since 99 like a week ago, and the 07 Cavs were unanimously voted as the worst, possibly WOAT. And that was the best team Lebron ever had. That should tell you how bad Lebron's teammates were.

Let's compare Lebron's help with some other superstars

Lebron's best teammates in CLE:
Prime Mo Williams, older Ilgauskus, washed up Larry Hughes, somewhat washed up Jamison, washed up Shaq, Boobie Gibson, Eric Snow, Delonte West

Throughout his career in LA Kobe had

Prime Shaq garuenteed rings, prime Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Dwight Howard

Throughout his career with San Antonio Duncan had

Veteran David Robinson, prime Tony Parker, prime Ginobili, and a collection of some great role players i don't feel like naming


Point is, everyone knows Lebron had terrible teams put around him that he still managed to succeed with, and anyone who tries to say otherwise is probably a mindless hater

You know why those teams won 60 games? Because they had fvcking Lebron you dolt. Eric Snow lmao

[Byobob]

Let's compare Lebron's help with some other superstars

Lebron's best teammates in CLE:
Prime Mo Williams, older Ilgauskus, washed up Larry Hughes, somewhat washed up Jamison, washed up Shaq, Boobie Gibson, Eric Snow, Delonte West

Throughout his career in LA Kobe had

Prime Shaq garuenteed rings, prime Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Dwight Howard

Throughout his career with San Antonio Duncan had

Veteran David Robinson, prime Tony Parker, prime Ginobili, and a collection of some great role players i don't feel like naming




You could also add that both of those teams had Phil Jackson and Pop as their coach. Lebron had Mike fcking Brown.

[Lebron23]

Dude give up fighting this dumbass point. There's a reason that you have not mentioned a single name of any of his teammates in your posts, and that's because you know they're trash lol. Idk why you're trying to sit here and deny the well known fact that Lebron had shit teammates in CLE, and once he got good ones you couldn't keep him out of the finals. The best player Lebron ever had was prime Mo Williams :oldlol: . Every other "big name" he had was beyond washed up by the time he got there. I started a thread about ranking the finals losers since 99 like a week ago, and the 07 Cavs were unanimously voted as the worst, possibly WOAT. And that was the best team Lebron ever had. That should tell you how bad Lebron's teammates were.

Let's compare Lebron's help with some other superstars

Lebron's best teammates in CLE:
Prime Mo Williams, older Ilgauskus, washed up Larry Hughes, somewhat washed up Jamison, washed up Shaq, Boobie Gibson, Eric Snow, Delonte West

Throughout his career in LA Kobe had

Prime Shaq garuenteed rings, prime Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Dwight Howard

Throughout his career with San Antonio Duncan had

Veteran David Robinson, prime Tony Parker, prime Ginobili, and a collection of some great role players i don't feel like naming


Point is, everyone knows Lebron had terrible teams put around him that he still managed to succeed with, and anyone who tries to say otherwise is probably a mindless hater

You know why those teams won 60 games? Because they had fvcking Lebron you dolt. Eric Snow lmao

http://www.mooregroup.ie/newsite/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/ether.jpg

[Lebron23]

You could also add that both of those teams had Phil Jackson and Pop as their coach. Lebron had Mike fcking Brown.


Kobe with Mike brown = 2nd round fodders. LeBron is just a better team player than Kobe.

[LBJMVP]

4 top 4 picks in 3 years. No excuses.

get outta here.


the first year we got the first two after the best player in the game left our team and the clippers traded us there pick.

the next year are team had kyrie who was hurt for 16 games and varajoe out most the season.

this year were a .500 team until we were ravaged by injuries all season long.


if we stay healthy, there is no reason why we can make the 2nd round next year.

[9erempiree]

Kobe with Mike brown = 2nd round fodders. LeBron is just a better team player than Kobe.

They beat the Spurs in the Finals with Kobe. Kobe has shat on the Spurs his whole career.

[Goldrush25]

No it's BS because if I point out that hey the Cavs built a 60 win team around Lebron not the perfect team but a contender you'll just say well it was all because of Lebron.

If I point out to you that the Cavs had the highest payroll in the NBA so yes they were willing to spend money but probably allocated it incorrectly you'll just say blah blah blah bums.

If I point out that the Cavs actually had a deal in place to bring in Bosh you'll probably say that I'm just making it up and I have no proof........

oh wait http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5357607

No one knew how good Kobe and Scottie would be become. Did Dirk, Duncan or Hakeem have a Pippen/Kobe? Did the 04 Pistons? Yeah that's what I thought.

It is irrelevant what deal the Cavs had in place for Bosh or not (not that you could substantiate those rumors anyway). It never happened. And why did they wait until Lebron was ready to leave until they tried to put talent, REAL talent, around him? Was 7 years not enough to get their act together?

You mentioning that Lebron had a couple of 60-win teams doesn't make your point. In fact, you're actually undermining it. Regardless of who he had to work with, he didn't have the kind of help that MJ and Kobe had. That's indisputable. So for Lebron to win 60 games with the relative bums he had, well that's a commentary on how far he was able to elevate a team full of role players. If he had a prime Shaq, he probably could've won 75+ games in those seasons. Who knows.

Unless you're willing to say those Cavs teams would've stacked up against the early 90s Bulls or the early '00 Lakers. Are you ready to say that? Please do.

[Ne 1]

Kobe with Mike brown = 2nd round fodders. LeBron is just a better team player than Kobe.

2006 Wizards (42-40)
2007 Wizards (42-40)
2007 Nets (41-41)
2007 Pistons (53-29)
2008 Wizards (43-39)
2009 Pistons (39-43)
2009 Hawks (47-35)
2010 Bulls (41-41)


There isn't an All-Star in this league incapable of duplicating Lebron's "success" with the Cavs. Those teams dont even make the playoffs in the West.

Any superstar in league history when paired with a top defensive, top rebounding and top three point shooting supporting cast is capable of duplicating what Lebron accomplished given the competition with the Cavs. People with agendas love to make his teammates look worse than they are just to prop up LeBron. The team, especially in 2010 perfectly complimented his talents or any superstar wing for that matter.

Also, who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston in an odd turn of events after game 3. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. They would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode.

[Ne 1]

Everyone looks on paper and says the Cavs sucked, but they were always an elite defensive and elite rebounding team under Mike Brown (look at the Cavs turn around after they hired him) and in LeBron's last two years, one of the top 3 point shooting teams. Basketball isn't played on paper, it's played on the court. Also, for all the times I've heard LeBron apologists/fan boys with an agenda disparage Mike Brown, it's hard to ignore the turnaround Cleveland had when he took over. They went from missing the playoffs for consecutive seasons with LeBron, and then nearly making it to the Eastern Conference Finals the very next season with no major additions other than Larry Hughes who only played in 36 games.

2004: Cavs go 35-47, miss playoffs
2005: Cavs go 42-40, miss playoffs
2006: Cavs hire Mike Brown, go 50-32 and take Detroit to 7 games in the second round

Also, Cleveland managed to win 50 games and make the Finals in 2007 with LeBron posting inferior overall numbers compared to his last season without Mike Brown coaching.

Lebron in '05: 27.2 points per game, 47.2% field goal percentage, 75% free throw percentage, 35.1% three-point percentage, 7.4 rebounds, 7.2 assists and 2.2 steals per game.

Lebron in '07: 27.3 points per game, 47.6% field goal percentage,. 69.8% free throw percentage, 31.9% 3-point percentage 6.7 rebounds per game, 6 assists per game, 1.6 steals per game.


It's pretty much the same formula in Miami as it was in Cleveland with James: surround LeBron with shooters and scrappy hardworking defenders/rebounders....hustle players/specialists who don't need the ball in their hands to contribute and be effective and let him control the offense. Only (and big) difference is he's playing with another top 3-5 superstar (when healthy) who can get his own shot anytime in Wade and a top 5 PF/stretch 4 who was the face of a franchise and who would be the best player on nearly every other team in the Eastern Conference and he's a freaking third option in Miami.

[HeatFanSince88]

2009 Cleveland with LeBron: 66-16
2010 Cleveland with LeBron: 61-21

LEBRON LEAVES

2011 Cleveland w/o LeBron: 19-63
2012 Cleveland w/o LeBron: 21-45
2013 Cleveland w/o LeBron: 24-58

And these mother****ers want to tell me LeBron wasn't the reason anyone gave a **** about that team?

:oldlol:

[9erempiree]

2009 Cleveland with LeBron: 66-16
2010 Cleveland with LeBron: 61-21

LEBRON LEAVES

2011 Cleveland w/o LeBron: 19-63
2012 Cleveland w/o LeBron: 21-45
2013 Cleveland w/o LeBron: 24-58

And these mother****ers want to tell me LeBron wasn't the reason anyone gave a **** about that team?

:oldlol:

Not just Lebron. The whole team basically took off and coach of the year, Mike Brown.

[MetsPackers]

Edit: This post is directed towards "Ne 1" and not the autistic kid posting above me



Saying that the Lebron Cavs were a great defensive/rebounding team and saying Lebron had a championship cast are two different things however. The team was built juuust well enough that Lebron could carry them to the finals, it did exactly that, but the second Lebron wasn't dominating anymore they couldn't win a single playoff game. That's what made Lebron's teams so bad. If Lebron had a 15 point game on 40%, Cavs got blown out no question. Kobe/Dirk have had plenty of those games and still won, even in the playoffs, because of the quality of the casts around them. Although those teams were built very well defensively and rebounding wise, Lebron NEVER had a legitimate second scoring option of championship caliber. His best second scoring options were Mo WIlliams followed by Boobie Gibson. Pierce had prime KG and Allen. Those Cavs teams were built so that if Lebron could absolutely dominate every single game then they could win. They completely relied on Lebron the way no championship team has ever relied on one player. If Lebron had a bad game they lost no question. You are never a championship caliber cast if you literally can never step up and carry even an average offensive load. Defense matters, but offense matters too. And when you have Lebron, a good second option is infinitely more valuable than another good defensive role player

[InspiredLebowski]

get outta here.


the first year we got the first two after the best player in the game left our team and the clippers traded us there pick.

the next year are team had kyrie who was hurt for 16 games and varajoe out most the season.

this year were a .500 team until we were ravaged by injuries all season long.


if we stay healthy, there is no reason why we can make the 2nd round next year.I disagree they have a shot at the 2nd round. But the rest of that is what I'm saying. You have the same amount of top 4 picks in the last 3 years that Indy's had in their entire NBA history. You get that many high, HIGH picks, you don't get excuses anymore.

I'm not saying it's bullshit they got the picks, they obviously made a really smart trade to get the Irving one. I'm saying accepting anything but playoffs+ from now on is a joke.

[9erempiree]

Edit: This post is directed towards "Ne 1" and not the autistic kid posting above me



Saying that the Lebron Cavs were a great defensive/rebounding team and saying Lebron had a championship cast are two different things however. The team was built juuust well enough that Lebron could carry them to the finals, it did exactly that, but the second Lebron wasn't dominating anymore they couldn't win a single playoff game. That's what made Lebron's teams so bad. If Lebron had a 15 point game on 40%, Cavs got blown out no question. Kobe/Dirk have had plenty of those games and still won, even in the playoffs, because of the quality of the casts around them. Although those teams were built very well defensively and rebounding wise, Lebron NEVER had a legitimate second scoring option of championship caliber. His best second scoring options were Mo WIlliams followed by Boobie Gibson. Pierce had prime KG and Allen. Those Cavs teams were built so that if Lebron could absolutely dominate every single game then they could win. They completely relied on Lebron the way no championship team has ever relied on one player. If Lebron had a bad game they lost no question. You are never a championship caliber cast if you literally can never step up and carry even an average offensive load. Defense matters, but offense matters too. And when you have Lebron, a good second option is infinitely more valuable than another good defensive role player

Wrong.

If Lebron is having a bad game they lose.

Dirk and Kobe has other aspects of their game that can win you games even having performing bad.

Lebron's team has a better record when he has a stat line of 20/7/7 and not stat padding for those triple doubles. Too ball dominant to allow his team to get in a rhythm when he's having an off night.

[9erempiree]

I disagree they have a shot at the 2nd round. But the rest of that is what I'm saying. You have the same amount of top 4 picks in the last 3 years that Indy's had in their entire NBA history. You get that many high, HIGH picks, you don't get excuses anymore.

I'm not saying it's bullshit they got the picks, they obviously made a really smart trade to get the Irving one. I'm saying accepting anything but playoffs+ from now on is a joke.

You have to wait and let these picks mature. It's not like they are coming into the league and going to make an impact right away.

Also, these guys have to build team chemistry as well. They are not a bunch of superstars in their prime who can play off of each other right off the bat.

[Lebron23]

2009 Cleveland with LeBron: 66-16
2010 Cleveland with LeBron: 61-21

LEBRON LEAVES

2011 Cleveland w/o LeBron: 19-63
2012 Cleveland w/o LeBron: 21-45
2013 Cleveland w/o LeBron: 24-58

And these mother****ers want to tell me LeBron wasn't the reason anyone gave a **** about that team?

:oldlol:


This

Come on Brah even Kobe's current team is way better than Cleveland LeBron.

[HeatFanSince88]

Not just Lebron. The whole team basically took off and coach of the year, Mike Brown.

guess why they left?

Noone wants to play there unless LeBron is there. :oldlol:

The moment LeBron said hes taking his talents to South Beach, Cleveland was right back to where they were before they drafted him: NBA irrelevancy.

[Goldrush25]

Everyone looks on paper and says the Cavs sucked, but they were always an elite defensive and elite rebounding team under Mike Brown (look at the Cavs turn around after they hired him) and in LeBron's last two years, one of the top 3 point shooting teams. Basketball isn't played on paper, it's played on the court. Also, for all the times I've heard LeBron apologists/fan boys with an agenda disparage Mike Brown, it's hard to ignore the turnaround Cleveland had when he took over. They went from missing the playoffs for consecutive seasons with LeBron, and then nearly making it to the Eastern Conference Finals the very next season with no major additions other than Larry Hughes who only played in 36 games.

2004: Cavs go 35-47, miss playoffs
2005: Cavs go 42-40, miss playoffs
2006: Cavs hire Mike Brown, go 50-32 and take Detroit to 7 games in the second round

Also, Cleveland managed to win 50 games and make the Finals in 2007 with LeBron posting inferior overall numbers compared to his last season without Mike Brown coaching.

Lebron in '05: 27.2 points per game, 47.2% field goal percentage, 75% free throw percentage, 35.1% three-point percentage, 7.4 rebounds, 7.2 assists and 2.2 steals per game.

Lebron in '07: 27.3 points per game, 47.6% field goal percentage,. 69.8% free throw percentage, 31.9% 3-point percentage 6.7 rebounds per game, 6 assists per game, 1.6 steals per game.


It's pretty much the same formula in Miami as it was in Cleveland with James: surround LeBron with shooters and scrappy defenders/rebounders, who don't need the ball in their hands to contribute and be effective and let him control the offense. Only (and big) difference is he's playing with another top 3-5 superstar (when healthy) who can get his own shot anytime in Wade and a top 5 PF/stretch 4 who was the face of a franchise and who would be the best player on nearly every other team in the Eastern Conference and he's a freaking third option in Miami.


Just answer this. Would you give those Cavs 1 game in a 10 game series against the early '00 Lakers or early '90s Bulls?

I don't get into "choked" this or "stacked" that or whatever dumb buzzwords get floated around here. I'm not saying that Lebron didn't suck it up in some of those series because he clearly did. I'm not disparaging Mike Brown. I'm only contending that Lebron's Cavalier help was not close to the level that Kobe or MJ had. You can praise them all you want but be honest and just look at the talent.

That fact that all 3 squads reached the Finals is immaterial. You compare the rosters of Lebron's squad to those other two groups and they don't come close to matching up. And that was my only point. You have to put STARS around STARS to win and win multiple championships in the NBA. Just because Lebron's Cavs got to the Finals didn't mean he stood a chance in hell of winning. Kobe and MJ's squads not only had a chance to win, they were favored. Why?? Because those stars had additional star help.

[9erempiree]

guess why they left?

Noone wants to play there unless LeBron is there. :oldlol:

The moment LeBron said hes taking his talents to South Beach, Cleveland was right back to where they were before they drafted him: NBA irrelevancy.

Cleveland cleaned house. Brown was fired.

:facepalm

[9erempiree]

This

Come on Brah even Kobe's current team is way better than Cleveland LeBron.

0-4 without Kobe in the playoffs.

Yea. they better.

:facepalm

[HeatFanSince88]

Cleveland cleaned house. Brown was fired.

:facepalm

and what free agents has Cleveland signed for cheap since LeBron left?

Oh yeah, nobody wants to ****ing go there.

When you got a guy like LeBron ringchasing veterans will sign up with your team for cheap. Its one of the benefits of having them. Shaq was the same way up until 2007 when he became a ring chaser himself. People want to play with great players that make the game easier for everyone. Guys like LeBron and Shaq are a ball to play with.

[InspiredLebowski]

You have to wait and let these picks mature. It's not like they are coming into the league and going to make an impact right away.

Also, these guys have to build team chemistry as well. They are not a bunch of superstars in their prime who can play off of each other right off the bat.You've seen the records of East 8 seeds recently right?

[RedBlackAttack]

Orlando winners of this. They avoid getting 200 pound C/PF with limited offense, they get to develop Vucevic and they get McLemore who fits them more.

The team with the No. 1 pick is ALWAYS the winner. The Cavs can take the guy who is No. 1 on their board. The Magic have to wait and see what the Cavs do, then make their choice.

If one thing has been made clear over the last two years, it is that Chris Grant is unafraid to go against conventional wisdom if he likes a less "conventional" pick.

The Cavs will take the guy they think is the best prospect in this draft, not be pressured into a consensus pick.

So, yeah... Cavs are the winners. Orlando isn't in a bad spot, though, considering their needs and the Cavs needs are very different.

Btw, who cares about LeBron era Cavs teams? Old news. Move on, Lebron fans. Time to move on.

[9erempiree]

You've seen the records of East 8 seeds recently right?

Yes, but they are too young and never had a real coach. Like I said, you can't throw these picks in and expect them to win.

[LBJMVP]

and what free agents has Cleveland signed for cheap since LeBron left?

Oh yeah, nobody wants to ****ing go there.

When you got a guy like LeBron ringchasing veterans will sign up with your team for cheap. Its one of the benefits of having them. Shaq was the same way up until 2007 when he became a ring chaser himself. People want to play with great players that make the game easier for everyone. Guys like LeBron and Shaq are a ball to play with.


we havent even tried to sign any big name free agents, not because they dont want to come here but because we dont want to blow on money and people who arent worth the money.

[InspiredLebowski]

The team with the No. 1 pick is ALWAYS the winner. The Cavs can take the guy who is No. 1 on their board. The Magic have to wait and see what the Cavs do, then make their choice.

If one thing has been made clear over the last two years, it is that Chris Grant is unafraid to go against conventional wisdom if he likes a less "conventional" pick.

The Cavs will take the guy they think is the best prospect in this draft, not be pressured into a consensus pick.

So, yeah... Cavs are the winners. Orlando isn't in a bad spot, though, considering their needs and the Cavs needs are very different.

Btw, who cares about LeBron era Cavs teams? Old news. Move on, Lebron fans. Time to move on.What you think about Windhorst saying that with the Cavs having 2 1sts and a lot of young talent already they'd listen to offers for #1?

[LBJMVP]

What you think about Windhorst saying that with the Cavs having 2 1sts and a lot of young talent already they'd listen to offers for #1?

theyll listen, but itll have to be very beneficial for us.
and i mean very, with no risk.

[RedBlackAttack]

What you think about Windhorst saying that with the Cavs having 2 1sts and a lot of young talent already they'd listen to offers for #1?
I have no doubt they'll listen. Lots of buzz in Cleveland about making a Kevin Love deal. That is the kind of move it would take to pry the No. 1 pick away from us, though. It won't come cheap, so I sort of doubt it happens.

But, they'd be fools not to listen.

[RedBlackAttack]

we havent even tried to sign any big name free agents, not because they dont want to come here but because we dont want to blow on money and people who arent worth the money.
Don't bring reason into this p!ssing contest. I'm sure he has no clue what the current state of the Cavs' organization is (very good).

Lots of young talent. Tons of draft picks. Tons of cap space.

But, yeah... Let's spend all that capital just to prove James fans wrong. Get a life, guys. Your guy is likely to win another title. Focus on that, not what's happening in Cleveland.

[FLDFSU]

No it's BS because if I point out that hey the Cavs built a 60 win team around Lebron not the perfect team but a contender you'll just say well it was all because of Lebron.

If I point out to you that the Cavs had the highest payroll in the NBA so yes they were willing to spend money but probably allocated it incorrectly you'll just say blah blah blah bums.

If I point out that the Cavs actually had a deal in place to bring in Bosh you'll probably say that I'm just making it up and I have no proof........

oh wait http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5357607

No one knew how good Kobe and Scottie would be become. Did Dirk, Duncan or Hakeem have a Pippen/Kobe? Did the 04 Pistons? Yeah that's what I thought.

1. Instead of building a team around Lebron, the Cavs should have been focused on building a CHAMPIONSHIP team. What if Lebron gets hurt? Then what? Cleveland loses all their games because instead of being decent GMs and Executives...like morons they are building around one player.

2. If Lebron really did sign off any personnel decision...every member of the Cavs organization needs be be fired and NEVER given another top NBA job again. What the hell does a 22 year old Lebron know about building a NBA team. Players play Coaches coach GMs build teams.

3. If that Cleveland team was so great why did Lebron lead them in practically every statistical category? That's one hell of a way to build a team.

4. If that Cleveland team was so great why did they lose 25+ games in a row after winning 60+ the previous season?

[9erempiree]

1. Instead of building a team around Lebron, the Cavs should have been focused on building a CHAMPIONSHIP team. What if Lebron gets hurt? Then what? Cleveland loses all their games because instead of being decent GMs and Executives...like morons they are building around one player.

2. If Lebron really did sign off any personnel decision...every member of the Cavs organization needs be be fired and NEVER given another top NBA job again. What the hell does a 22 year old Lebron know about building a NBA team. Players play Coaches coach GMs build teams.

3. If that Cleveland team was so great why did Lebron lead them in practically every statistical category? That's one hell of a way to build a team.

4. If that Cleveland team was so great why did they lose 25+ games in a row after winning 60+ the previous season?

They were kind of forced to build around Lebron. Lebron held them hostage by saying he wouldn't resign with the Cavs.

It put a lot of pressure on Danny Ferry and he just basically built the team to Lebron's strengths rather than putting together a championship team.

In hindsight, you could say they should build a better team but there was too much pressure to really put a team around a guy that said he was going to explore free agency or mark that date on their calendar.

[FLDFSU]

Everyone looks on paper and says the Cavs sucked, but they were always an elite defensive and elite rebounding team under Mike Brown (look at the Cavs turn around after they hired him) and in LeBron's last two years, one of the top 3 point shooting teams. Basketball isn't played on paper, it's played on the court. Also, for all the times I've heard LeBron apologists/fan boys with an agenda disparage Mike Brown, it's hard to ignore the turnaround Cleveland had when he took over. They went from missing the playoffs for consecutive seasons with LeBron, and then nearly making it to the Eastern Conference Finals the very next season with no major additions other than Larry Hughes who only played in 36 games.

2004: Cavs go 35-47, miss playoffs
2005: Cavs go 42-40, miss playoffs
2006: Cavs hire Mike Brown, go 50-32 and take Detroit to 7 games in the second round

Also, Cleveland managed to win 50 games and make the Finals in 2007 with LeBron posting inferior overall numbers compared to his last season without Mike Brown coaching.

Lebron in '05: 27.2 points per game, 47.2% field goal percentage, 75% free throw percentage, 35.1% three-point percentage, 7.4 rebounds, 7.2 assists and 2.2 steals per game.

Lebron in '07: 27.3 points per game, 47.6% field goal percentage,. 69.8% free throw percentage, 31.9% 3-point percentage 6.7 rebounds per game, 6 assists per game, 1.6 steals per game.


It's pretty much the same formula in Miami as it was in Cleveland with James: surround LeBron with shooters and scrappy hardworking defenders/rebounders....hustle players/specialists who don't need the ball in their hands to contribute and be effective and let him control the offense. Only (and big) difference is he's playing with another top 3-5 superstar (when healthy) who can get his own shot anytime in Wade and a top 5 PF/stretch 4 who was the face of a franchise and who would be the best player on nearly every other team in the Eastern Conference and he's a freaking third option in Miami.

:biggums:

[HEAT111]

The team with the No. 1 pick is ALWAYS the winner. The Cavs can take the guy who is No. 1 on their board. The Magic have to wait and see what the Cavs do, then make their choice.

If one thing has been made clear over the last two years, it is that Chris Grant is unafraid to go against conventional wisdom if he likes a less "conventional" pick.

The Cavs will take the guy they think is the best prospect in this draft, not be pressured into a consensus pick.

So, yeah... Cavs are the winners. Orlando isn't in a bad spot, though, considering their needs and the Cavs needs are very different.

Btw, who cares about LeBron era Cavs teams? Old news. Move on, Lebron fans. Time to move on.


You're bluffing, right? I'll just leave it to that.


It's funny. No one has worn #23 after LeBron left...

[RedBlackAttack]

You're bluffing, right? I'll just leave it to that.


It's funny. No one hasn't worn #23 after LeBron left...
Again in English?

Are you saying every player on the team has worn #23 since James left?

And, no... I'm not "bluffing." Not sure why I'd be bluffing. Makes no sense in this context.

[Ne 1]

Saying that the Lebron Cavs were a great defensive/rebounding team and saying Lebron had a championship cast are two different things

It's a good recipe for success in the Eastern Conference.


The team was built juuust well enough that Lebron could carry them to the finals

So? Iverson, Dwight and Jason Kidd also "carried" teams to the Finals in the East that didn't look great on paper outside of them.



Lebron wasn't dominating anymore they couldn't win a single playoff game.

So LeBron carried them to the Finals by himself? I think not.

Game 3: James carried the load with 32/9/9, but a big key was also Cleveland's defense holding Detroit to 82 points, funny how you ignore that and act like basketball is just one side of the basketball, defense is half of the game. So with Cleveland's defense doing such a great job, LeBron didn't need that much offensive support, having 3 teammates in double figures(Z- 16, Pavlovic- 13, Gooden- 12) was more than enough.

Game 4: LeBron had 25/7/11, but again, Cleveland held Detroit to just 87 points and Daniel Gibson scored 21 points on great efficiency(4/7 from the field, 12/12 from the line) and Gooden also had 19/8.

Game 5: This is about as close as a player can come to winning a game by himself, we all know about Lebron's 48/9/7 game.

Game 6: Lebron had 20/14/8, though his efficiency was poor (3/11 FG, 14/19 FT), but again Cleveland's defense shut down Detroit. The Pistons scored just 82 points and Daniel Gibson led all scorers with 31 points on amazing efficiency (7/9 FG, 5/5 3P, 12/15 FT).



If Lebron had a 15 point game on 40%, Cavs got blown out no question.

So how did the Cavs managed to stay competitive with the Celtics in the playoffs when Lebron shot 2-20 and had 10 turnovers?


Although those teams were built very well defensively and rebounding wise, Lebron NEVER had a legitimate second scoring option of championship caliber.
[/QUOTE]


Mo Williams was an All-Star, Antwan Jamison was an All-Star, Anderson Varejao was a great 6th man and made the All-Defensive 2nd team, Shaq, although past his prime years is a hall of famer and was an All-Star the year before joining the Cavs, Big Z was a serviceable big man and an All-Star a few years ago during that time and Parker was the #1 3-point shooter in the NBA.

Jamison was averaging 17/8
Varejao was almost averaging a double-double in under 30 minutes a game
Shaq averaged 12/7 on 20 minutes per game

All scrubs though right?

Boobie, Mo, and Parker all shot over 40% from 3

Antawn Jamison averaged 20 and 10 his last year before joining Cleveland. Mo Williams was a 17ppg scorer at the point for years, and a knockdown 3pt shooter. No 2nd offensive threat? I think not.

Everybody was fine with the Cavs supporting cast when they won 66 games, they were happy with the supporting cast when they were 1 win away from being undefeated at home, nothing was wrong with the supporting cast when they were killing the Bulls, Pistons and Hawks in the playoffs, but as soon as they lose to Orlando and Boston the excuse is that Lebron is playing with a bunch of worthless bums. What's the excuse for him losing in 2011? They weren't built for the playoffs either, the were a bunch of bums outside of James?

[FLDFSU]

They were kind of forced to build around Lebron. Lebron held them hostage by saying he wouldn't resign with the Cavs.

It put a lot of pressure on Danny Ferry and he just basically built the team to Lebron's strengths rather than putting together a championship team.

In hindsight, you could say they should build a better team but there was too much pressure to really put a team around a guy that said he was going to explore free agency or mark that date on their calendar.

If Danny Ferry really let Lebron James picked who came and went on the Cavs because he was afraid of Lebron leaving... then Ferry needs to be IMMEDIATELY removed from his responsibilities as Hawks GM.

He going to let Smith make his decision in ATL too?

What the hell is the Owner paying Ferry to do? Look pretty?

[HEAT111]

Again in English?

Are you saying every player on the team has worn #23 since James left?

And, no... I'm not "bluffing." Not sure why I'd be bluffing. Makes no sense in this context.


Sure...

Are you implyng Andrew Bogut was a winner for the Bucks?

And quit with the mind games, you perfectly know what I'm saying.

[9erempiree]

If Danny Ferry really let Lebron James picked who came and went on the Cavs because he was afraid of Lebron leaving... then Ferry needs to be IMMEDIATELY removed from his responsibilities as Hawks GM.

He going to let Smith make his decision in ATL too?

What the hell is the Owner paying Ferry to do? Look pretty?

I really don't know why Ferry has a job to be honest. He showed his true colors in Cleveland. The first couple of years, he got credit for what he did.

As the years went on and closer to Lebron's contract being expired. He was just filling in the pieces and not building a championship team. The reason why you saw Shaq and a bunch of these other fools on the team.

He was building that team to win now and he failed miserably.

Or you can say he was a victim of circumstance.

[FLDFSU]

Everybody was fine with the Cavs supporting cast when they won 66 games, they were happy with the supporting cast when they were 1 win away from being undefeated at home, nothing was wrong with the supporting cast when they were killing the Bulls, Pistons and Hawks in the playoffs, but as soon as they lose to Orlando and Boston the excuse is that Lebron is playing with a bunch of worthless bums. What's the excuse for him losing in 2011? They weren't built for the playoffs either, the were a bunch of bums outside of James?

The reason why folks have a problem with Lebron's cast against Boston and Orlando is because Lebron's cast was so great that he lead them in every major statically category. From scoring to blocks...rebounds to steals...

A decent cast does not allow one player to so dominate them statically like the Cavs allowed Bron to.

Oh, and he was known as the Cavs best defender too.

[RedBlackAttack]

Sure...

Are you implyng Andrew Bogut was a winner for the Bucks?

And quit with the mind games, you perfectly know what I'm saying.
Actually, I had no clue what you were saying. I thought you were possibly trying to say the opposite of what you were actually saying, but I wasn't positive.

Anyway, yes, the Bucks were the big lottery winners in 2005. They were able to take the guy they thought was the best in the draft.

You're debating two entirely different things... A team fortunate enough to pick the guy they think is the best and the franchise's ability to gauge talent.

There is no argument that having the second pick in the draft is better than having the first. None.

Does that mean every No. 1 pick will pan out? Hell no. But that has nothing to do with the position the team was picking from and everything to do with the basketball minds working for the organization.

Btw, I'd bet if we went through every No. 1 and No. 2 pick ever made, there would be more great No. 1 picks than No. 2 picks. Want to bet?

[Ne 1]

The reason why folks have a problem with Lebron's cast against Boston and Orlando is because Lebron's cast was so great that he lead them in every major statically category. From scoring to blocks...rebounds to steals...

A decent cast does not allow one player to so dominate them statically like the Cavs allowed Bron to.

So what you're implying then is that the '04-'07 Cavs teams were better than his '08-'10 teams? :confusedshrug:

And I'm still wondering how the Cavs managed to stay competitive with the Celtics when Lebron shot 2-20 and had 10 turnovers. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

http://oi43.tinypic.com/v8elpi.jpg

Well we'll never know now how far that Cavs team could have gone in 2010 because of the odd turn of events after Game 3 against Boston with LeBron visibly pouting/quitting.

They were up 2-1 and if LeBron played even close to his usual level, the Cavs in all likelihood win the series. The Celtics deserve some credit, but Lebron just seemed off and he played like garbage in the last 3 games. He didn't seem like himself at all. I don't know if he was looking towards the summer, or if the Delonte rumor was true, but he really looked visibly distracted.

[Jax]

you're talking alone pal
Nop :coleman:
Enjoy while he plays, GOAT.

[Unbiased_one]

2006 Wizards (42-40)
2007 Wizards (42-40)
2007 Nets (41-41)
2007 Pistons (53-29)
2008 Wizards (43-39)
2009 Pistons (39-43)
2009 Hawks (47-35)
2010 Bulls (41-41)


There isn't an All-Star in this league incapable of duplicating Lebron's "success" with the Cavs. Those teams dont even make the playoffs in the West.

Any superstar in league history when paired with a top defensive, top rebounding and top three point shooting supporting cast is capable of duplicating what Lebron accomplished given the competition with the Cavs. People with agendas love to make his teammates look worse than they are just to prop up LeBron. The team, especially in 2010 perfectly complimented his talents or any superstar wing for that matter.

Also, who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston in an odd turn of events after game 3. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. They would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode.

You claim 2010 was his best supporting cast? That years the cavs made the 8th most 3s in the league, got the 11th most rebounds in the league, and had the 6th best defense in the league, all with lebron on the floor (who is elite at the latter two). That's not exactly 'top'. By comparison kobe's team in 2006 ( when you claim he was playing with scrubs) was 8th, 7th and 15th in similar categories...pretty similar no?

Funny thing is, kobe actually shot worse than the rest of his team in 06 both overall and from 3 point range...some scrubs outshooting a top 10 GOAT.

[aj1987]

If I point out that the Cavs actually had a deal in place to bring in Bosh you'll probably say that I'm just making it up and I have no proof........

oh wait http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5357607

Did you even read the article?


Everything is set for Chris Bosh to join LeBron James in Cleveland. Everything, that is, except Bosh's approval.

The Toronto Raptors have told the Cleveland Cavaliers they will do a sign-and-trade with them for Bosh, according to several league sources.

The exact details of the potential trade have not been solidified, but Toronto likely would get Anderson Varejao and/or J.J. Hickson, Delonte West and perhaps Anthony Parker. A draft pick could be involved as well.

ESPN NBA insider Chris Broussard says he thinks LeBron James is leaning toward staying in Cleveland. Chris Bosh wants to play with James but would rather do it in a bigger city than Cleveland.

Both James and Bosh are aware that such a trade is possible, and James has tried to recruit Bosh to the Cavaliers several times in the past few weeks, according to sources.

But right now, Bosh remains cold to the idea of playing in Cleveland.

The Cavaliers are hopeful that will change, because in Cleveland, Bosh can meet two of his top priorities: playing with James, and getting a six-year, $125 million contract.

If Bosh joins a team without doing a sign-and-trade, he will be able to sign only a five-year deal worth $96 million. He is determined not to leave that $29 million on the table, according to sources.

Although Bosh wants to play with James, he wants to do it in Chicago, Miami or New Jersey. Sources say he has told the Raptors those are the teams he would like to go to in a sign-and-trade.

Bosh also could play with Dwyane Wade instead of James in those cities.

Toronto, however, will not cooperate in a sign-and-trade with Miami, which has no players in whom the Raptors are interested, according to sources.

To move Bosh to Chicago, the Raptors likely would ask for Joakim Noah, though they could perhaps be persuaded to take a package that does not include him.

The Nets would seem to be able to put together an enticing package for the Raptors that included rookie lottery pick Derrick Favors.

[dh144498]

lol. ;)

I'm serious though. We're talking arguable GOAT when it's all over with.

a lebron stan pretending to be a MAgic fan? okkkaaaaaay.

[Ikill]

Im pretty sure Kyrie is a god and i rather have a god on my team than a goat

[Frozen1]

You guys talk too much about Irving. He's been there for two years and cavs are still a shitty lottery team.

[imdaman99]

this is either RG or silk :facepalm

[secund2nun]

You guys talk too much about Irving. He's been there for two years and cavs are still a shitty lottery team.

Bc PGs are overrated. Bigmen and Lebron (and Durant) are what win you games and titles.