peak Bird vs peak Lebron

[dh144498]

Lebron will most likely beat out Bird in terms of longevity.
But peak vs peak, I'd take Bird over Lebron.

we're talking about a similar height players but one weighs almost 50 pounds over the other.
One is MUCH less athletic.
One is arguably the greatest passer of all time.
One plays OFF the ball, with a career USG% in the 24-26 range in regular season and the playoffs and still averaged 6.3 and 6.5 assists in the regular season and playoffs, respectively, with peak averages of 7.2 and 8.6, respectively.
One averages 10 rebounds for regular season and playoffs. regular season and playoff TRB% of 14.2 and 13.9. averaged 15+ rebounds against Moses MAlone in 1981 playoffs and getting back to back 20+ rebound games. :bowdown:
One is an incredible shooter.
One won 3 consecutive MVPs.

That one is Larry Bird.
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[jzek]

Only those who were born in the 90s and up would say LBJ is the GOAT SF. I started watching basketball in the 80s and can say without a doubt that Larry Legend is the GOAT SF. If someone needs an explanation why I say this then it's clear that someone has never seen prime Larry Legend.

[tikay0]

Larry Legend.

[1987_Lakers]

Bird is my favorite player of all time, but as much as I hate to say it I will have to side with LeBron, but it's not ridiculous to go with Bird.

LeBron's ability to play PG & defend does it for me, but I do believe Bird had better court vision & was a better rebounder than LeBron.

[jzek]

I remember this one game when Larry hit a game winning 3 pointer... only it turns out that his coach had called a timeout and the players just didn't hear it because it was too loud in the building. While walking back to the bench, Larry pointed to a spot on the floor as if to say something liek "I'm gonna shoot right here." Then timeout ends, play resumes, and guess what? Larry hit yet *another* game winning 3 pointer... from the spot he pointed at. Basically back-to-back "game-winning" 3 pointers!

Someone needs to find the YouTube of this!!! :bowdown: I've seen it on YT before but didn't bookmark it...

[tikay0]

You take the mentally tougher, and overall tougher player 9/10 times, skills being equal. Lebron would curl up in a ball if he was about to get into a fight Dr. J.

He'd never be the leader he is now, back in the old school days.

[Kingwillball]

Yeah I watched Bird and Bird himself would tell u Lebron is better. Lebron will finish his career in tbe top 5 all time probably right behind MJ but some will argue Lebron as the goat.. Championships will be deciding factor.

[inclinerator]

larry bird cuz he has a unstoppable jumper making him harder to contain

[pauk]

Then there is the other half of the floor....... where you play defense....

[dh144498]

Then there is the other half of the floor....... where you play defense....

you make it sound like Bird was a terrible defender or something. Lebron's defense is better, but not that much, at least for me, to take him over Bird's overall game.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Close but it's Larry Bird

better shooter from pretty much everywhere
better postgame
better rebounder
even better passer
better off-ball offensive game
better post and help D
better leader
tougher mentality
definitely more clutch
higher basketball iq

At his best, 3x MVP, 2x FMVP, 27/10/7/2/1 on 51/40/90 stats, in a more competitive era, as far as teams, stars and Sf's, with much less usage.
And if he wasn't injured in the 85 playoffs he would've probably take another ring and FMVP.

I know that his D is gonna get underrated here also. Let me just say that when he arrived the Celtics became one of the best defensive teams in the league while the previous year they were one of the worst, basically same roster.
In his 1st year led the league in DWS and 6th in DRtg, no Parish or McHale yet, no big-man blocking more than 1 shot per game.
Went on to lead the league in DWS for 3 more times, top5 6 times. 2nd in DRtg in 1984, top10 6 times during his career.
McHale never was top10 in either, by 84 Parish was blocking less than 1.5 shots per game.
So please don't underrated his D.

Oh and if y'all wanna mention pace, be smarter than that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA

Fact that Bird could flat otu dominate in a lot of ways, ball dominant, off-ball, inside, outside and so on... gives the man a huge edge.
Could hurt in more ways.




we're talking about a similar height players but one weighs almost 50 pounds over the other.


Bird a bit more than 1 inch taller and by like his 5th season Larry was pushing over 230 lbs.... do ya really think Lebron's 280 lbs??? Or even 270...


Then there is the other half of the floor....... where you play defense....

Look at this ignorant dude, please read what I said about his D above and explain that... If it was Lebron doing that right now people like you would be going crazy

[97 bulls]

Bird is my favorite player of all time, but as much as I hate to say it I will have to side with LeBron, but it's not ridiculous to go with Bird.

LeBron's ability to play PG & defend does it for me, but I do believe Bird had better court vision & was a better rebounder than LeBron.
How can he be your favorite player and youve never seen him play on a consistent basis. Meaning im sure youve seen highlights or some of his greatest games etc.

[dh144498]

Close but it's Larry Bird

better shooter from pretty much everywhere
better postgame
better rebounder
even better passer
better off-ball offensive game
better post and help D
better leader
tougher mentality
definitely more clutch
higher basketball iq

At his best, 3x MVP, 2x FMVP, 27/10/7/2/1 on 51/40/90 stats, in a more competitive era, as far as teams, stars and Sf's, with much less usage.
And if he wasn't injured in the 85 playoffs he would've probably take another ring and FMVP.

I know that his D is gonna get underrated here also. Let me just say that when he arrived the Celtics became one of the best defensive teams in the league while the previous year they were one of the worst, basically same roster.
In his 1st year led the league in DWS and 6th in DRtg, no Parish or McHale yet, no big-man blocking more than 1 shot per game.
Went on to lead the league in DWS for 3 more times, top5 6 times. 2nd in DRtg in 1984, top10 6 times during his career.
McHale never was top10 in either, by 84 Parish was blocking less than 1.5 shots per game.
So please don't underrated his D.

Oh and if y'all wanna mention pace, be smarter than that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA

Fact that Bird could flat otu dominate in a lot of ways, ball dominant, off-ball, inside, outside and so on... gives the man a huge edge.
Could hurt in more ways.




Bird a bit more than 1 inch taller and by like his 5th season Larry was pushing over 230 lbs.... do ya really think Lebron's 280 lbs??? Or even 270...



Look at this ignorant dude, please read what I said about his D above and explain that... If it was Lebron doing that right now people like you would be going crazy


great post. Why did you suddenly bold everything. :sleeping

[Kingwillball]

Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.

[tikay0]

Close but it's Larry Bird

better shooter from pretty much everywhere
better postgame
better rebounder
even better passer
better off-ball offensive game
better post and help D
better leader
tougher mentality
definitely more clutch
higher basketball iq

At his best, 3x MVP, 2x FMVP, 27/10/7/2/1 on 51/40/90 stats, in a more competitive era, as far as teams, stars and Sf's, with much less usage.
And if he wasn't injured in the 85 playoffs he would've probably take another ring and FMVP.

I know that his D is gonna get underrated here also. Let me just say that when he arrived the Celtics became one of the best defensive teams in the league while the previous year they were one of the worst, basically same roster.
In his 1st year led the league in DWS and 6th in DRtg, no Parish or McHale yet, no big-man blocking more than 1 shot per game.
Went on to lead the league in DWS for 3 more times, top5 6 times. 2nd in DRtg in 1984, top10 6 times during his career.
McHale never was top10 in either, by 84 Parish was blocking less than 1.5 shots per game.
So please don't underrated his D.

Oh and if y'all wanna mention pace, be smarter than that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA

Fact that Bird could flat otu dominate in a lot of ways, ball dominant, off-ball, inside, outside and so on... gives the man a huge edge.
Could hurt in more ways.




Bird a bit more than 1 inch taller and by like his 5th season Larry was pushing over 230 lbs.... do ya really think Lebron's 280 lbs??? Or even 270...



Look at this ignorant dude, please read what I said about his D above and explain that... If it was Lebron doing that right now people like you would be going crazy

Your ETHER skills are amazing. :bowdown:

[dh144498]

Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.

:biggums:

bu bu but don't Lebron stans always say: it's a 5 on 5 game?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How can he be your favorite player and youve never seen him play on a consistent basis. Meaning im sure youve seen highlights or some of his greatest games etc.

This.

[Blue&Orange]

You give Lebron, Bird's athleticism and Lebron wouldn't even play in the NBA.


The game is called Basketball, if you want to worship athletes go watch the Olympic games or the world championship in athletics.

[hitmanyr2k]

All things being equal Bird isn't going to spend the last 5 minutes of a winnable playoff game bitching up and passing to scrubs to bail him out while he stands in the corner because he's scared of his own shadow. It's a no-brainer. Bird is the more skilled player + he was a killer.

[dh144498]

You give Lebron, Bird's athleticism and Lebron wouldn't even play in the NBA.


The game is called Basketball, if you want to worship athletes go watch the Olympic games or the world championship in athletics.


I wouldn't go that far, he'll still be a top 30 player in the league.

[97 bulls]

This.
Hes the most confusing poster on the site. Hes a 22 year old Laker fan that lives in Golden State whose favorite player (Larry Bird) and team (1986 Celtics) hes never seen play. Hell he wasnt even born during the Celtics dynasty. Hell he wasnt even born in the 80s.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It is very close, but I still have to go with Bird. Lebron is much better as a defender, finisher, ball-handler and open court player. But Bird was the much better shooter despite Lebron's improvements, a much off the ball player, a much better rebounder, a better post player and a better passer. Plus, intangibles, particularly leadership are in Bird's favor. His left hand was also as good of an off hand as any player you'll see. Check out the "left hand game" to see what I'm talking about.



Bird a bit more than 1 inch taller and by like his 5th season Larry was pushing over 230 lbs.... do ya really think Lebron's 280 lbs??? Or even 270...

I doubt 280, but 270 is pretty likely for Lebron. I don't know why people make a big deal out of this and refuse to believe it. Lebron has been 265-270 for 5 seasons now.

This is Lebron when he was a 245 pound rookie. And yes, he was officially weighed at 245 at the pre-draft camp.

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/LeBron-James1.jpg

Considering Lebron has obviously put on 20-25 pounds since then and pretty much every source has put Lebron in the 265-270 range, I don't know why people have such a hard time with this.

As far as Bird, I think his top weight in the 80's was 240ish, but I'm not sure.

[Carbine]

LeBron.

He's too well rounded now on offense (can beat you any way you want it) and is clearly a better defender.

[Rondo]

Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.

Shame basketball isn't a one on one playground game, huh?

[TheReal Kendall]

I haven't watched much of Bird play but I think I would go with Bird because Lebron relies on his athleticism too much. Bird was just skills and bball IQ. Plus he was tough minded and didn't back down when things got tough. Just a tough nosed country down to earth guy. To me if you take away Lebron's athleticism it's gonna be tough for him to score cause he can't shoot well and he has no post moves.

[HardwoodLegend]

You give Lebron, Bird's athleticism and Lebron wouldn't even play in the NBA.


The game is called Basketball, if you want to worship athletes go watch the Olympic games or the world championship in athletics.

So dumb.

Size and athleticism have always been assets in this sport.

Give MJ Bird's athleticism, and Bird may very well be the better player.

[tikay0]

Hes the most confusing poster on the site. Hes a 22 year old Laker fan that lives in Golden State whose favorite player (Larry Bird) and team (1986 Celtics) hes never seen play. Hell he wasnt even born during the Celtics dynasty. Hell he wasnt even born in the 80s.

Dude. You can spot these Lebron stans from a mile away.

"Ya see, I love Hakeem, but I think Lebron has a slightly better post game." :facepalm

[Nash]

You give Lebron, Bird's athleticism and Lebron wouldn't even play in the NBA.


The game is called Basketball, if you want to worship athletes go watch the Olympic games or the world championship in athletics.
Give Nate Robinson Shaq's body and he'd the the goat.

Anyway, Lebron is elite at both ends of the floor and during Bird's time the game was played at a much higher pace.

But I'm not going to say anything because I've never watched Bird play, just like most of you.

What I do know though is that Bird(and his buddy Magic) has plenty of times said that Lebron is up there with Jordan as the best player in the history of the game.

[dh144498]

Dude. You can spot these Lebron stans from a mile away.

"Ya see, I love Hakeem, but I think Lebron has a slightly better post game." :facepalm

:biggums:
who actually said that?

[TheReal Kendall]

Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.

:facepalm

Lebron doesn't even have a quick first step like that. So how did you come up with this conclusion?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.


Lebron fanboys mention it's a team game whenever rings come up then in this case talk about 1vs1.

Bird at one point or another was guarded by and destroyed dudes like Erving, Rodman, Cooper, Jordan, Bobby Jones, Pippen, Wilkins, Woolridge, McDaniel, Nance, Cliff Robinson, Kenny Walker, Worthy, Roundfield... plenty of them while he was under terrible conditions, not to mention doing this while trash talking the hell out of them. What would Lebron do better than them?

Also like the superstar Sf's nowadays cover one another or something like that, why don't people bring that up? Durant guards Lebron for most of the game? Or Melo? Not even close. Same can be said to a lesser extent for Lebron against other superstar Sf's. So please stop.

Oh yea and basketball it's 5on5.
Plus jumpers gotta be contested by the on-ball defender while if you drive you may meet other players on the way... Just to say Larry got more ways to score, shooting anyway from anywhere, postgame, could drive with a great touch around the basket with both hands, go look at some of his floaters, if it was today people would be drooling.

Replace Lebron with Larry in the 80's with the Celtics and he wouldn't have his dominance, success, impact and so on, ijs.

[tikay0]

:facepalm

Lebron doesn't even have a quick first step like that. So how did you come up with this conclusion?

Exactly. Like I pointed out in another thread. Lebron's lack of quick burst speed would hamper him against the hand check.

[dh144498]

this thread has quickly turned into a Lebron-bashing thread. Not my intentions. So guys, let's not discredit Lebron here, but let's all just take a deep breath and take a moment to recognize the greatness in Larry Bird. :bowdown:

[tikay0]

this thread has quickly turned into a Lebron-bashing thread. Not my intentions. So guys, let's not discredit Lebron here, but let's all just take a deep breath and take a moment to recognize the greatness in Larry Bird. :bowdown:

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/larry-bird.jpg

[Solefade]

have we even seen LeBron's peak yet? he seems to be improving every single season since he's been in the league :confusedshrug:

[K Xerxes]

Peak Bird vs LeBron we're seeing now? Peak Bird.

But we'll see if LeBron gets better. He still has more time to improve his perimeter shooting, post game and FT shooting before his athleticism starts to fade.

[dh144498]

Peak Bird vs LeBron we're seeing now? Peak Bird.

But we'll see if LeBron gets better. He still has more time to improve his perimeter shooting, post game and FT shooting before his athleticism starts to fade.

this is true.

[TheReal Kendall]

have we even seen LeBron's peak yet? he seems to be improving every single season since he's been in the league :confusedshrug:

This is true.

[Kingwillball]

Let me ask how could Lebron be in conversation for Goat with MJ by media and former players but not be better than Bird ?

[All Net]

Yeah I watched Bird and Bird himself would tell u Lebron is better. Lebron will finish his career in tbe top 5 all time probably right behind MJ but some will argue Lebron as the goat.. Championships will be deciding factor.

Lebron needs to win the next two years..

[Rondo]

Let me ask how could Lebron be in conversation for Goat with MJ by media and former players but not be better than Bird ?

The only people who think LeBron is in the conversation with MJ are idiots without a brain. The media love to compare the biggest star today and the biggest star of the past. It's a good talking point. Take members of the media aside and ask "LeBron or MJ" and it'll be a landslide victory for Jordan.

People in the past have said Kobe's in the conversation for goat with MJ. Clearly he isn't...

[chosen_wun]

Let me ask how could Lebron be in conversation for Goat with MJ by media and former players but not be better than Bird ?
The media compares every great wing player to Jordan, also former players are dumb.

Mark Jackson said Kobe is the GOAT.

[K Xerxes]

Let me ask how could Lebron be in conversation for Goat with MJ by media and former players but not be better than Bird ?

1) Right now, LeBron is not in the conversation for GOAT. Not even close.

2) We're talking about peaks here, not overall careers. In his peak, Bird was arguably the greatest all-round offensive force in the history of the game. And he was a very underrated defender (particularly help defense). If he had maintained his dominance longer, he would have a legitimate case for the GOAT.

[Kingwillball]

The only people who think LeBron is in the conversation with MJ are idiots without a brain. The media love to compare the biggest star today and the biggest star of the past. It's a good talking point. Take members of the media aside and ask "LeBron or MJ" and it'll be a landslide victory for Jordan.

People in the past have said Kobe's in the conversation for goat with MJ. Clearly he isn't...

Lebron is clearly better than Kobe though meaning Kobe was never as good as Lebron at his best. I think when Lebron is locked in and in attack mode he is the most unstoppable force ever that isnt a center.

[Solefade]

Let me ask how could Lebron be in conversation for Goat with MJ by media and former players but not be better than Bird ?


I was saying the same thing...Who are we to say as just basketball fans that LeBron is or isn't better than MJ or Larry when all the former players who have played with MJ and coaches speculate on it as if it could be a real possibility?

Phil, Magic, Larry, Barkley, Pippen have mentioned that he COULD be better (we have yet to see if he will be) but obviously right now he's not there yet. The point is LeBron has the tools to be the GOAT, it's up to him on whether or not he transcends himself.

[RichieW]

Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks while bird would shoot contested fadeaways.. Sorry Bird fans hang on to your argument now as a few years from now Lebron will easily pass him at this pace.

I didn't realise the NBA was a 1-on-1 league.

[longtime lurker]

I was saying the same thing...Who are we to say as just basketball fans that LeBron is or isn't better than MJ or Larry when all the former players who have played with MJ and coaches speculate on it as if it could be a real possibility?

Phil, Magic, Larry, Barkley, Pippen have mentioned that he COULD be better (we have yet to see if he will be) but obviously right now he's not there yet. The point is LeBron has the tools to be the GOAT, it's up to him on whether or not he transcends himself.

So then you'd agree that Kobe could be the GOAT because they've all said the exact same thing about him too.

[Rondo]

Lebron is clearly better than Kobe though meaning Kobe was never as good as Lebron at his best. I think when Lebron is locked in and in attack mode he is the most unstoppable force ever that isnt a center.

He is better than Kobe, agreed, but point is people also said the same sh*t about Kobe and how he was as good as MJ. Just because the media and stans talk about it doesn't make it true.

[Solefade]

So then you'd agree that Kobe could be the GOAT because they've all said the exact same thing about him too.


Have they? All I've heard is he's the closest thing to MJ since MJ that's not insinuating that he's just as good or better though.

I don't think I've heard former players say he's potentially the GOAT.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Have they? All I've heard is he's the closest thing to MJ since MJ that's not insinuating that he's just as good or better though.

I don't think I've heard former players say he's potentially the GOAT.

Selective listening

[LikeABosh]

Peak is very debatable. I never say Bird in his prime live so I don't really know though. It's only a matter of time before Lebron passes him as the GOAT SF due to longevity and the length of his peak

[chosen_wun]

Have they? All I've heard is he's the closest thing to MJ since MJ that's not insinuating that he's just as good or better though.

I don't think I've heard former players say he's potentially the GOAT.
When Kobe was peaking the media and players were saying all kinds of stupid shit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDNBcRsB_-0

[Solefade]

Selective listening

Not at all, what did you hear about former players and coaches saying about Kobe?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2012/10/09/phil-jackson-says-lebron-james-has-tools-to-be-better-than-michael-jordan/

Phil: "He has the tools to become better than Michael Jordan" --what most former great players and coaches think.

[aburre21]

LeBron >>> Bird



Bird a better passer than LeBron? In what universe? :lol

[K Xerxes]

LeBron >>> Bird



Bird a better passer than LeBron? In what universe? :lol

In this universe.

[ShaqAttack3234]

LeBron >>> Bird



Bird a better passer than LeBron? In what universe? :lol

Wait, so you're not only claiming Lebron is a better passer than Bird, but clearly better? :roll: Are you also going to claim Lebron is a better rebounder?

[aburre21]

it's crazy the arguments they'll use. They'll say Bird was the better rebounder because of stats but won't say Bron was the better passer because of his assists numbers. We seen what kind of rebounder LeBron was when he was forced to crash the glass due to the absence of Chris Bosh

[ShaqAttack3234]

it's crazy the arguments they'll use. They'll say Bird was the better rebounder because of stats but won't say Bron was the better passer because of his assists numbers. We seen what kind of rebounder LeBron was when he was forced to crash the glass due to the absence of Chris Bosh

Right, because assist numbers tell you who the better passer was. :oldlol: I guess Westbrook and Rose are better passers than Bird as well.

If you watch a good amount of Bird games, I think you'll see why most consider him a better passer than Lebron. I'd say Bird was one of the 10 best passers in NBA history, and I think most would agree.

I'm not necessarily talking about all around playmaking either, where Lebron's ability off the dribble would come into play.

Rebounding can be judged better by numbers than passing, and Bird's numbers are not only better in both raw(rpg) and advanced(TRB%) but he did it playing alongside Parish and McHale on the same frontline. And he got more offensive rebounds as well, which is always something to consider because more defensive rebounds go uncontested.

But aside from that, you can also see from watching the games that Bird was clearly the better rebounding. They weren't even comparable as far as boxing out and timing.

[Rondo]

LeBron >>> Bird



Bird a better passer than LeBron? In what universe? :lol

Bird's one of the greatest passers the league's ever seen. I'm fine with people saying LeBron's the better overall player but let's keep it realistic here man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnRtgBGMl4

Watch and appreciate :bowdown:

[1987_Lakers]

How can he be your favorite player and youve never seen him play on a consistent basis. Meaning im sure youve seen highlights or some of his greatest games etc.

I guarantee you I know Bird's game more than 80% of people on this site. I've seen a bunch of his games on tape & online.

[aburre21]

Right, because assist numbers tell you who the better passer was. :oldlol: I guess Westbrook and Rose are better passers than Bird as well.

If you watch a good amount of Bird games, I think you'll see why most consider him a better passer than Lebron. I'd say Bird was one of the 10 best passers in NBA history, and I think most would agree.

I'm not necessarily talking about all around playmaking either, where Lebron's ability off the dribble would come into play.

Rebounding can be judged better by numbers than passing, and Bird's numbers are not only better in both raw(rpg) and advanced(TRB%) but he did it playing alongside Parish and McHale on the same frontline. And he got more offensive rebounds as well, which is always something to consider because more defensive rebounds go uncontested.

But aside from that, you can also see from watching the games that Bird was clearly the better rebounding. They weren't even comparable as far as boxing out and timing.


Bird was not a better passer than LeBron, it's that simpple. And I don't believe he was a better rebounder either. Rebounding is all about effort. When LeBron puts the effort into it like he did in the 2012 playoffs he can rebound with the best of them, and that included many offensive rebounds and finishes.

[SHAQisGOAT]

it's crazy the arguments they'll use. They'll say Bird was the better rebounder because of stats but won't say Bron was the better passer because of his assists numbers. We seen what kind of rebounder LeBron was when he was forced to crash the glass due to the absence of Chris Bosh

Because assist numbers are pretty similar, while Bird doesn't come close to Lebron's usage, never was ball-dominant like Lebron, never played PG like Lebron does a lot. You can rack up easy assists just by being the main ball-handler on a team, especially on a team with so many 3pt shooters like Lebron had over the years, and also because Lebron's a beast at driving and can easily drive and kick because he can pass and he's willing to.
Bird was the better passer though, clear to see.

On the other hand rebounding numbers, TRB% or averages, are not even close.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird was not a better passer than LeBron, it's that simpple. And I don't believe he was a better rebounder either. Rebounding is all about effort. When LeBron puts the effort into it like he did in the 2012 playoffs he can rebound with the best of them, and that included many offensive rebounds and finishes.

Dumb post.... still you're saying even when he put the effort he didn't come close to Bird's best rebounding numbers, RS or PS.

[1987_Lakers]

Hes the most confusing poster on the site. Hes a 22 year old Laker fan that lives in Golden State whose favorite player (Larry Bird) and team (1986 Celtics) hes never seen play. Hell he wasnt even born during the Celtics dynasty. Hell he wasnt even born in the 80s.

You mad bro? Just because I wasn't born in that time means that I didn't watch any of their games on tape?:oldlol:

We all know you are the most delusional poster here. "Pippen > Magic". "Luc Longley is equal to Roy Hibbert." You will say anything to hype those mid 90's Bulls teams.:oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

Bird was not a better passer than LeBron, it's that simpple. And I don't believe he was a better rebounder either. Rebounding is all about effort. When LeBron puts the effort into it like he did in the 2012 playoffs he can rebound with the best of them, and that included many offensive rebounds and finishes.

I really don't see how Lebron is a better passer, but you're claiming they're equal on the boards as well? Based on what? No reasonable person could come away with that opinion from watching them play and the stats favor Bird, and very heavily when context is applied.

Lebron did rebound very well in the 2012 playoffs, but compare it to Bird in some of his playoff runs, particularly 1981. For much of his career, I've thought Lebron's rebounding numbers have made him appear to be a better rebounder than he really was. And now on Miami, he plays on a team that doesn't rebound well and plays a small lineup.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Larry Bird in the 4th quarter vs Lebron James in the 4th quarter. Who are you more nervous about if you're the opposing team? Who do you trust in the NBA Finals?

[Rose'sACL]

Bird's one of the greatest passers the league's ever seen. I'm fine with people saying LeBron's the better overall player but let's keep it realistic here man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnRtgBGMl4

Watch and appreciate :bowdown:
Bird is one of my favorite players of all time and both lebron and him are equally good passers. It is just that because of lebron's athleticism, he can make those passes even more than bird.
see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA
lebron makes all the passes bird has ever made. lebron's passes are faster too and he makes more of them every game.
People who make lebron's athleticism a minus point are idiots and don't know shit about basketball.
I would say Bird did more with little but why does that matter when you are looking to make a team? Jordan, kobe and shaq were/are all athletic freaks. No one wondered what jordan would do without his athleticism and no one should wonder what lebron would do without his athleticism.
Lebron is a better player than bird but only a little better. You can go with bird and you wouldn't be much wrong either.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I take the baddest white boy in basketball history. Why? Because of the superior intelligence, heart, and innate fight within him.

LeBron might have the better physical tools, obviously, Bird probably more skilled outside of ball handling.

But it's the intangibles as to why I choose Bird over LeBron.

[DMAVS41]

I really don't see how Lebron is a better passer, but you're claiming they're equal on the boards as well? Based on what? No reasonable person could come away with that opinion from watching them play and the stats favor Bird, and very heavily when context is applied.

Lebron did rebound very well in the 2012 playoffs, but compare it to Bird in some of his playoff runs, particularly 1981. For much of his career, I've thought Lebron's rebounding numbers have made him appear to be a better rebounder than he really was. And now on Miami, he plays on a team that doesn't rebound well and plays a small lineup.

This.

[TheBigVeto]

Bird is my favorite player of all time, but as much as I hate to say it I will have to side with LeBron, but it's not ridiculous to go with Bird.

LeBron's ability to play PG & defend does it for me, but I do believe Bird had better court vision & was a better rebounder than LeBron.

How can you say Bird is your favorite player when your nickname is 1987 Lakers??? Come on man.

[1987_Lakers]

How can you say Bird is your favorite player when your nickname is 1987 Lakers??? Come on man.

You think I give a shit?

[Rose'sACL]

How can you say Bird is your favorite player when your nickname is 1987 Lakers??? Come on man.
Bird is one of my fav players and yet i would pick lebron over bird. I like Bird as a fan because he did more with less but as a GM i can't think like that. I have to pick the better player and lebron is a little better player than prime bird. Bird was the better rebounder though.

[CavaliersFTW]

You give Lebron, Bird's athleticism and Lebron wouldn't even play in the NBA.


The game is called Basketball, if you want to worship athletes go watch the Olympic games or the world championship in athletics.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[RRR3]

I don't know enough about Bird to comment, but you guys really need to be more consistent with your rankings. Stop talking about LeBron like he's going to be top 3 all time if he apparently isn't even close to Bird. Furthermore, rank Bird higher if he's so damn great. I've seen lots of people rank Bird in the lower half of the top 10.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird is one of my favorite players of all time and both lebron and him are equally good passers. It is just that because of lebron's athleticism, he can make those passes even more than bird.
see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA
lebron makes all the passes bird has ever made. lebron's passes are faster too and he makes more of them every game.
People who make lebron's athleticism a minus point are idiots and don't know shit about basketball.
I would say Bird did more with little but why does that matter when you are looking to make a team? Jordan, kobe and shaq were/are all athletic freaks. No one wondered what jordan would do without his athleticism and no one should wonder what lebron would do without his athleticism.
Lebron is a better player than bird but only a little better. You can go with bird and you wouldn't be much wrong either.


2:41 of QB-like passes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
The speed, precision and length are crazy, show me Lebron doing those, Bird was a quarterback out there.

Even Magic amazed with Bird's passing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
Show me Lebron doing some of those touch passes, touch catch-n-pass assists, some of those unbelievably flashy yet necessary passes, some of those where you don't see nothing happening then the ball hits the right guy on the spot.

15 minutes footage, blows everything by Lebron out of the water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns

"Larry Bird's the greatest passing forward in the history of the nba. There's no 2nd place, there's no 3rd place, just others recieving votes.": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk

All of those videos combine for over 30 minutes of unreal passing footage, from a guy who played back in the 80s. Lebron can't really **** with that and that 10 minute video doesn't cut it.


Lebron's a great passer but seriously, only somebody who didn't watch Bird think LBJ's a better passer.

Testament to that is the fact that their passing numbers are quite similar and Bird handled the ball way less, never really played PG like Lebron does, never was that ball dominant also.

Plus the rules and strategies help Lebron a lot. Look at all the 3pt shooters he had around over the years, lots of them, Bird had like Ainge only. With Lebron's passing ability, will and athleticism it's easy to drive and dish, doesn't take all that much passing skills. Those 3pt shooters also spread the floor so less crowded to make passes inside or to drive. There's also rules like defensive 3 seconds in the paint and so on, less physicality. Assists are also given like free candy nowadays.
Bird wasn't getting the type of easy assists that you dribble for 22 seconds then make a pass to a 3pt shooter at the last moment or things of that nature. Or looking away to a spot where there's no one after the pass is completed to make it look like a no-look pass or something, he had real flash that but used it if necessary.

[tikay0]

2:41 of QB-like passes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
The speed, precision and length are crazy, show me Lebron doing those, Bird was a quarterback out there.

Even Magic amazed with Bird's passing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
Show me Lebron doing some of those touch passes, touch catch-n-pass assists, some of those unbelievably flashy yet necessary passes, some of those where you don't see nothing happening then the ball hits the right guy on the spot.

15 minutes footage, blows everything by Lebron out of the water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns

"Larry Bird's the greatest passing forward in the history of the nba. There's no 2nd place, there's no 3rd place, just others recieving votes.": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk

All of those videos combine for over 30 minutes of unreal passing footage, from a guy who played back in the 80s. Lebron can't really **** with that and that 10 minute video doesn't cut it.


Lebron's a great passer but seriously, only somebody who didn't watch Bird think LBJ's a better passer.

Testament to that is the fact that their passing numbers are quite similar and Bird handled the ball way less, never really played PG like Lebron does, never was that ball dominant also.

Plus the rules and strategies help Lebron a lot. Look at all the 3pt shooters he had around over the years, lots of them, Bird had like Ainge only. With Lebron's passing ability, will and athleticism it's easy to drive and dish, doesn't take all that much passing skills. Those 3pt shooters also spread the floor so less crowded to make passes inside or to drive. There's also rules like defensive 3 seconds in the paint and so on, less physicality. Assists are also given like free candy nowadays.
Bird wasn't getting the type of easy assists that you dribble for 22 seconds then make a pass to a 3pt shooter at the last moment or things of that nature. Or looking away to a spot where there's no one after the pass is completed to make it look like a no-look pass or something, he had real flash that but used it if necessary.




/THREAD.

[NattyPButter]

This thread is so dumb. The media and almost everyone is talking about Lebron possibly becoming one of the greatest. Guess who holds that spot? MJ not Larry Bird. Who do they compare Lebron to? MJ not Larry Bird. Who would most ppl pick to build a team around between Lebron and Bird? Most ppl and even old time players would pick Lebron not Bird. The Lebron hate has blinded many on ish.

[SHAQisGOAT]

This thread is so dumb. The media and almost everyone is talking about Lebron possibly becoming one of the greatest. Guess who holds that spot? MJ not Larry Bird. Who do they compare Lebron to? MJ not Larry Bird. Who would most ppl pick to build a team around between Lebron and Bird? Most ppl and even old time players would pick Lebron not Bird. The Lebron hate has blinded many on ish.

:facepalm

I don't hate Lebron, in fact I admire his game. Just because you're an ignorant young kid doesn't mean the thread is dumb or something.

If anything today's overhypeness of everything has blinded you. What you say about Lebron it was Kobe some years ago, that's how it is, think they would be talking about the greatness of a retired player? That's not the way you make money.

Most people who know their shit would pick prime Bird over prime Lebron, even though it's close.

[ShaqAttack3234]

This thread is so dumb. The media and almost everyone is talking about Lebron possibly becoming one of the greatest. Guess who holds that spot? MJ not Larry Bird. Who do they compare Lebron to? MJ not Larry Bird. Who would most ppl pick to build a team around between Lebron and Bird? Most ppl and even old time players would pick Lebron not Bird. The Lebron hate has blinded many on ish.

You do realize that Bird was called the best player ever by countless players, coaches and writers during the 80's, right? And the media hyping up the current best player is nothing new. I remember Mark Jackson talking about Kobe being better than MJ in 2006, Greg Anthony saying the same thing in 2008, and a variety of others.

But it sounds like you let the media do your thinking for you, particularly when it's convenient, so I don't know why I'm even bothering.

[seanclayton]

Peak Bird beats Jordan. /thread

[tikay0]

This thread is so dumb. The media and almost everyone is talking about Lebron possibly becoming one of the greatest. Guess who holds that spot? MJ not Larry Bird. Who do they compare Lebron to? MJ not Larry Bird. Who would most ppl pick to build a team around between Lebron and Bird? Most ppl and even old time players would pick Lebron not Bird. The Lebron hate has blinded many on ish.

You are so ignorant. Why do you think the media compares him to MJ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:facepalm

[NattyPButter]

:facepalm

I don't hate Lebron, in fact I admire his game. Just because you're an ignorant young kid doesn't mean the thread is dumb or something.

If anything today's overhypeness of everything has blinded you. What you say about Lebron it was Kobe some years ago, that's how it is, think they would be talking about the greatness of a retired player? That's not the way you make money.

Most people who know their shit would pick prime Bird over prime Lebron, even though it's close.

I'm a 30+ year old grown ass man not some teenage boy. To call Lebron overhype shows your ignorance and bias towards.

[tikay0]

I'm a 30+ year old grown ass man not some teenage boy. To call Lebron overhype shows your ignorance and bias towards.

When you;re comparing him to MJ, and bypassing all the ATG players in the past, then hell yeah, he's overhyped.

The guy has 1 ring, and joined a superteam to get it. You are ignorant.

[NattyPButter]

You do realize that Bird was called the best player ever by countless players, coaches and writers during the 80's, right? And the media hyping up the current best player is nothing new. I remember Mark Jackson talking about Kobe being better than MJ in 2006, Greg Anthony saying the same thing in 2008, and a variety of others.

But it sounds like you let the media do your thinking for you, particularly when it's convenient, so I don't know why I'm even bothering.

can't claim Jordan the best when he had to get the merchandise to prove it first:banghead: are u ppl serious or just plain dumb?

[Rondo]

This thread is so dumb. The media and almost everyone is talking about Lebron possibly becoming one of the greatest. Guess who holds that spot? MJ not Larry Bird. Who do they compare Lebron to? MJ not Larry Bird. Who would most ppl pick to build a team around between Lebron and Bird? Most ppl and even old time players would pick Lebron not Bird. The Lebron hate has blinded many on ish.

It's fine to say LeBron's better than Bird. Just don't justify it with stupid BS like "he's a better passer & rebounder".

The media comparing LeBron & Jordan doesn't automatically mean LeBron is either the best or 2nd best player of all time. You don't hear the media talking about Kareem in that regard but he's still better than LeBron at this moment in time.

[NattyPButter]

When you;re comparing him to MJ, and bypassing all the ATG players in the past, then hell yeah, he's overhyped.

The guy has 1 ring, and joined a superteam to get it. You are ignorant.

you need to improve your reading comprehension. It's not me doing the comparison. My post straight said media and old time players:banghead:

[ShaqAttack3234]

can't claim Jordan the best when he had to get the merchandise to prove it first:banghead: are u ppl serious or just plain dumb?

This is your idea of the English language and you're calling us stupid? :oldlol: And why bother responding to my post if you're not going to address any of my points?

[Kingwillball]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooEELfpn2C8

Now Stop with the Lebron is an overrated passer.. He is one of if not the best Passing none PG of all time. One thing that all the people who play with Lebron say he is gets the ball to U so fast and right in your shooting pocket which gives the shooter the extra half second time to release shot. Beside's the Right pass he also makes the special pass as seen in this video which is not even of the past couple seasons.

[SHAQisGOAT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooEELfpn2C8

Now Stop with the Lebron is an overrated passer.. He is one of if not the best Passing none PG of all time. One thing that all the people who play with Lebron say he is gets the ball to U so fast and right in your shooting pocket which gives the shooter the extra half second time to release shot. Beside's the Right pass he also makes the special pass as seen in this video which is not even of the past couple seasons.


Said he was a great passer but if you say better than Bird as far as that, to me that's overrating him as a passer.

Again, 4 videos adding up to like 30 minutes of different footage, dude played in the 80s, with plenty of passes Lebron never made. Just the 1st video shows you how great he was, full-court passes with such precision, really fast, great length, even from below the backcourt which is extremely difficult, that's a QB arm. Then you see the touch passes, the catch-n-shoot passes, the flashy yet "necessary" passes, left handed passes, crazy passes before you even see it coming. Again if you saw Bird play considerably you'll never say Lebron's a better passer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk

[Rose'sACL]

2:41 of QB-like passes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
The speed, precision and length are crazy, show me Lebron doing those, Bird was a quarterback out there.

Even Magic amazed with Bird's passing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
Show me Lebron doing some of those touch passes, touch catch-n-pass assists, some of those unbelievably flashy yet necessary passes, some of those where you don't see nothing happening then the ball hits the right guy on the spot.

15 minutes footage, blows everything by Lebron out of the water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns

"Larry Bird's the greatest passing forward in the history of the nba. There's no 2nd place, there's no 3rd place, just others recieving votes.": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk


All of those videos combine for over 30 minutes of unreal passing footage, from a guy who played back in the 80s. Lebron can't really **** with that and that 10 minute video doesn't cut it.


Lebron's a great passer but seriously, only somebody who didn't watch Bird think LBJ's a better passer.

Testament to that is the fact that their passing numbers are quite similar and Bird handled the ball way less, never really played PG like Lebron does, never was that ball dominant also.

Plus the rules and strategies help Lebron a lot. Look at all the 3pt shooters he had around over the years, lots of them, Bird had like Ainge only. With Lebron's passing ability, will and athleticism it's easy to drive and dish, doesn't take all that much passing skills. Those 3pt shooters also spread the floor so less crowded to make passes inside or to drive. There's also rules like defensive 3 seconds in the paint and so on, less physicality. Assists are also given like free candy nowadays.
Bird wasn't getting the type of easy assists that you dribble for 22 seconds then make a pass to a 3pt shooter at the last moment or things of that nature. Or looking away to a spot where there's no one after the pass is completed to make it look like a no-look pass or something, he had real flash that but used it if necessary.
Just stop it. Lebron has made long passes too.
Idiots like you think athleticism isn't part of the game of basketball.
I have no problem if you say that bird did more with less(one of the reasons i like bird) but to say that lebron hasn't made the passes bird made or to say that lebron passes don't count because he is most athletic just shows how dumb your argument is. Go watch batsmen in Cricket if all you want is timing and skill and no athleticism. Talking about athleticism as a minus point in a sports like basketball is just retarded.
Show me a pass that bird made which you think lebron hasn't made. i will show you a very similar pass.
I don't even argue with people who say that they would take bird over lebron as it is too close to call but as a passer lebron is better even though by a very little margin and it is very clear to anyone who watched them both without any bias.
Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA
Tell me which pass bird made that he hasn't made and i will show that pass too in case it is not in that video.

[NattyPButter]

This is your idea of the English language and you're calling us stupid? :oldlol: And why bother responding to my post if you're not going to address any of my points?

I did address it by saying you can't call Jordan the best when he needed the merchandise (rings) first to prove it. Also lets act like Jordan wasn't just starting his career while Bird on almost on his way out. Your other posts were just wasn't worth answering. Here's why...Past players are already saying Lebron is the best or will be the best player to step on the court. It's not the media that is doing all the talking...it's past players also. I'm done no point and continue arguing with blindness and hateful ppl.

[tikay0]

I did address it by saying you can't call Jordan the best when he needed the merchandise (rings) first to prove it. Also lets act like Jordan wasn't just starting his career while Bird on almost on his way out. Your other posts were just wasn't worth answering. Here's why...Past players are already saying Lebron is the best or will be the best player to step on the court. It's not the media that is doing all the talking...it's past players also. I'm done no point and continue arguing with blindness and hateful ppl.

I think like 2-3 players said Lebron would be the best or become the best.

Take a poll with every legend that's ever played in the NBA, and it'll look something like, 300 to 15 that say MJ will never be surpassed by Lebron.

It's just a bigger headline when someone says Lebron is and will be the better player at the end of the day.

[kNicKz]

Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg

:roll:

Don't be foolish. Bird would abuse Lebron one on one

[Kingwillball]

Said he was a great passer but if you say better than Bird as far as that, to me that's overrating him as a passer.

Again, 4 videos adding up to like 30 minutes of different footage, dude played in the 80s, with plenty of passes Lebron never made. Just the 1st video shows you how great he was, full-court passes with such precision, really fast, great length, even from below the backcourt which is extremely difficult, that's a QB arm. Then you see the touch passes, the catch-n-shoot passes, the flashy yet "necessary" passes, left handed passes, crazy passes before you even see it coming. Again if you saw Bird play considerably you'll never say Lebron's a better passer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk


I saw Bird play and he was also a great passer but Lebron can make any pass on the court and if Lebron was a QB as far as Velocity he would be John Elway As his passes have more zip than anybody especially cross court.Oh and Lebron can throw a perfect full court pass with touch also..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdKMCp_SwZM

[Odinn]

I'll say once again;
Bird is the better passer. LeBron is the better playmaker.
There is a considerable difference.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Just stop it. Lebron has made long passes too.
Idiots like you think athleticism isn't part of the game of basketball.
I have no problem if you say that bird did more with less(one of the reasons i like bird) but to say that lebron hasn't made the passes bird made or to say that lebron passes don't count because he is most athletic just shows how dumb your argument is. Go watch batsmen in Cricket if all you want is timing and skill and no athleticism. Talking about athleticism as a minus point in a sports like basketball is just retarded.
Show me a pass that bird made which you think lebron hasn't made. i will show you a very similar pass.
I don't even argue with people who say that they would take bird over lebron as it is too close to call but as a passer lebron is better even though by a very little margin and it is very clear to anyone who watched them both without any bias.


So I'm the idiot? You're the one misquoting, I've never said athleticism isn't part of the game lmfao.
Yea you don't show any bias at all, and I'm pretty sure you've watched both :rolleyes: Anyone who knows their shit can clearly tell Bird's a better passer.

You say much but show nothing

Again 2:41 minutes of amazing full-court passes, with terrific precision, really fast, plenty of them from below the backcourt. That's a QB playing basketball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
Show me the same from Lebron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk
Show me some of those touch passes, slap passes, assists quickly after getting the ball, touch assists off of rebounds, behind the back from far away going through like 2/3 players, behind the back right after you get the pass, getting the ball just to throw behind the back getting the assist a split second after, full court bounce passes with tremendous precision, assists while sitting down, what about that one in part 3 at 2:57 with the left hand Lebron trying that the ball would be in the 3rd row.

30+ minutes footage of amazing passes, dude played in the 80s, a 30+ video of Lebron passing the ball with his best passes wouldn't hold a candle to all of that. Those 5 min, 10 min, highlights videos with Lebron's passing can't **** with that, plenty of passes he hasn't made.

Show me then... You can't, I've watched plenty of Lebron and saw all of those highlights videos posted here, before, and more, and he's a great passer but not quite like Bird.

On the other hand I can show you plenty of assists of Lebron dribbling up the clock and at the end making an easy pass to a shooter, looking away to where's no one after the pass is completed to make it seem like a no-look pass, plenty of driving and dishing which requires skill but not all that.
You can't show me that from Bird, he wasn't the main ball-handler, he didn't dribble up the clock, he made quick plays and passes not wasting motion, lots of assists right after he catched the ball, he made it extremely flashy if/when necessary, he had like Ainge as a great 3pt shooter only in his career.

[KG215]

Bird was not a better passer than LeBron, it's that simple. And I don't believe he was a better rebounder either. Rebounding is all about effort. When LeBron puts the effort into it like he did in the 2012 playoffs he can rebound with the best of them, and that included many offensive rebounds and finishes.

So one playoff run where he put forth the effort means he was a better rebounder?

LeBron in the 2012 playoffs averaged 9.7 RPG and had a TRB% of 13.8%. The 9.7 RPG would rank 7th in Bird's career, and the 13.8% would rank 6th. LeBron's does have a 14.1% to his credit in 2009. That'd still rank 6th in Bird's career.

As for the regular season? LeBron's career averages are 7.3 RPG and 10.8% TRB%; Bird's career averages were 10.0 RPG and 14.5%.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I saw Bird play and he was also a great passer but Lebron can make any pass on the court and if Lebron was a QB as far as Velocity he would be John Elway As his passes have more zip than anybody especially cross court.Oh and Lebron can throw a perfect full court pass with touch also..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdKMCp_SwZM


Showed you a video with 2:41 of footage with full-court QB like passes from a dude who played in the 80s... Best you can do is one play that doesn't even compete with the best I've shown you? :oldlol:

Seriously pretty much all of the passes in the video I posted shit all over that (only one) play.

Lmao Bird would've thrown a much better pass than that in that situation with only one hand, heck with the left hand only.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I did address it by saying you can't call Jordan the best when he needed the merchandise (rings) first to prove it. Also lets act like Jordan wasn't just starting his career while Bird on almost on his way out. Your other posts were just wasn't worth answering. Here's why...Past players are already saying Lebron is the best or will be the best player to step on the court. It's not the media that is doing all the talking...it's past players also. I'm done no point and continue arguing with blindness and hateful ppl.

First of all, I never stated who I thought was the best player ever in my post. More importantly, yes I can call Jordan the best if I feel he was the best player.

Past players were also saying Kobe was or will be better than Jordan. Did you agree with that? People say a lot of things when a player is at the top of their games, and then years later, the perception changes. For example, during Shaq's prime, many people, including quite a few coaches and players were calling him the best big man ever, and how many people do you hear say that 10-15 years later?

I don't hate Lebron. I think he's an incredible player, and historically dominant. I just don't have a short memory and overreact to how well he's playing now at the expense of past greats.


So one playoff run where he put forth the effort means he was a better rebounder?

LeBron in the 2012 playoffs averaged 9.7 RPG and had a TRB% of 13.8%. The 9.7 RPG would rank 7th in Bird's career, and the 13.8% would rank 6th. LeBron's does have a 14.1% to his credit in 2009. That'd still rank 6th in Bird's career.

As for the regular season? LeBron's career averages are 7.3 RPG and 10.8% TRB%; Bird's career averages were 10.0 RPG and 14.5%.

And that's before considering the teams they were on. It's a lot different putting up rebounding numbers when your frontcourt players are Robert Parish, Kevin McHale and Bill Walton, as Bird's were during the 1986 title run when he averaged 9.3 rpg(12.1 TRB%), or Parish, Cedric Maxwell and McHale as they were during the 1981 championship run when Bird averaged 14 rpg(17.6 TRB%), as well as the '84 run when he averaged 11 rpg(15 TRB%)

A LOT different than putting up rebounding numbers with Bosh, Battier, Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem as your frontcourt players.

[aburre21]

I'll say once again;
Bird is the better passer. LeBron is the better playmaker.
There is a considerable difference.

that's a part of passing



Passing encompasses vision, anticipation(seeing the play before it happens and knowing where your teammates are), and playmaking



Lebron is great at every single one of these categories. Dude anticipates like no other player and the game and he always knows where his shooters and everyone else is. Nobody is gonna just leave their man open, you have to runs sets or put pressure on the defense to get open looks and find the person who is open which is playmaking. And he almost always throws an accurate pass that allows his teammates to catch and shoot or finish




Yall dudes are clowns. Larry Bird was not a better passer than LeBron by any stretch of the imagination. Clueless ****s :facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

The term "it's not even close" is getting tiring on here, quick.

Either way, it's pretty damn close. Not much that separates them in terms of impact, except with the pinch bias from certain posters here.

[Le Shaqtus]

2:41 of QB-like passes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
The speed, precision and length are crazy, show me Lebron doing those, Bird was a quarterback out there.

Even Magic amazed with Bird's passing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
Show me Lebron doing some of those touch passes, touch catch-n-pass assists, some of those unbelievably flashy yet necessary passes, some of those where you don't see nothing happening then the ball hits the right guy on the spot.

15 minutes footage, blows everything by Lebron out of the water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns

"Larry Bird's the greatest passing forward in the history of the nba. There's no 2nd place, there's no 3rd place, just others recieving votes.": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk

All of those videos combine for over 30 minutes of unreal passing footage, from a guy who played back in the 80s. Lebron can't really **** with that and that 10 minute video doesn't cut it.


Lebron's a great passer but seriously, only somebody who didn't watch Bird think LBJ's a better passer.

Testament to that is the fact that their passing numbers are quite similar and Bird handled the ball way less, never really played PG like Lebron does, never was that ball dominant also.

Plus the rules and strategies help Lebron a lot. Look at all the 3pt shooters he had around over the years, lots of them, Bird had like Ainge only. With Lebron's passing ability, will and athleticism it's easy to drive and dish, doesn't take all that much passing skills. Those 3pt shooters also spread the floor so less crowded to make passes inside or to drive. There's also rules like defensive 3 seconds in the paint and so on, less physicality. Assists are also given like free candy nowadays.
Bird wasn't getting the type of easy assists that you dribble for 22 seconds then make a pass to a 3pt shooter at the last moment or things of that nature. Or looking away to a spot where there's no one after the pass is completed to make it look like a no-look pass or something, he had real flash that but used it if necessary.

Annndddd thats the thread.

[tikay0]

So I'm the idiot? You're the one misquoting, I've never said athleticism isn't part of the game lmfao.
Yea you don't show any bias at all, and I'm pretty sure you've watched both :rolleyes: Anyone who knows their shit can clearly tell Bird's a better passer.

You say much but show nothing

Again 2:41 minutes of amazing full-court passes, with terrific precision, really fast, plenty of them from below the backcourt. That's a QB playing basketball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
Show me the same from Lebron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk
Show me some of those touch passes, slap passes, assists quickly after getting the ball, touch assists off of rebounds, behind the back from far away going through like 2/3 players, behind the back right after you get the pass, getting the ball just to throw behind the back getting the assist a split second after, full court bounce passes with tremendous precision, assists while sitting down, what about that one in part 3 at 2:57 with the left hand Lebron trying that the ball would be in the 3rd row.

30+ minutes footage of amazing passes, dude played in the 80s, a 30+ video of Lebron passing the ball with his best passes wouldn't hold a candle to all of that. Those 5 min, 10 min, highlights videos with Lebron's passing can't **** with that, plenty of passes he hasn't made.

Show me then... You can't, I've watched plenty of Lebron and saw all of those highlights videos posted here, before, and more, and he's a great passer but not quite like Bird.

On the other hand I can show you plenty of assists of Lebron dribbling up the clock and at the end making an easy pass to a shooter, looking away to where's no one after the pass is completed to make it seem like a no-look pass, plenty of driving and dishing which requires skill but not all that.
You can't show me that from Bird, he wasn't the main ball-handler, he didn't dribble up the clock, he made quick plays and passes not wasting motion, lots of assists right after he catched the ball, he made it extremely flashy if/when necessary, he had like Ainge as a great 3pt shooter only in his career.


/THREAD.

[miles berg]

Birds peak was higher but has LeBron reached his peak yet?

[KG215]

Yall dudes are clowns. Larry Bird was not a better passer than LeBron by any stretch of the imagination. Clueless ****s :facepalm
By any stretch of the imagination? So, in your mind, it's not even kind of close?

I think this has become the thing on ISH that gets on my nerves the most. One person picks their side, starts to argue, then goes far enough to say things like "by any stretch of the imagination" or "it's not even close" in arguments when is very, VERY close. I mean, at the absolute worst, even if you believe the answer is LeBron, there's no way you can pretend it's not close and expect people to take you seriously.

[Legends66NBA7]

You will say anything to hype those mid 90's Bulls teams.

True, it doesn't even need hype either.

They were easily one, if not the best dynasty, ever.

[tikay0]

Birds peak was higher but has LeBron reached his peak yet?

Why do people keep saying this? Lebron's been in the league for 10 years already. He's peaking as we speak. :facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

By any stretch of the imagination? So, in your mind, it's not even kind of close?

I think this has become the thing on ISH that gets on my nerves the most. One person picks their side, starts to argue, then goes far enough to say things like "by any stretch of the imagination" or "it's not even close" in arguments when is very, VERY close. I mean, at the absolute worst, even if you believe the answer is LeBron, there's no way you can pretend it's not close and expect people to take you seriously.

Yeah, I addressed that in my first post in this thread too. :oldlol: @ any of this not being close (unless it's obvious that it is not close). Stanning to another degree.

[KG215]

Birds peak was higher but has LeBron reached his peak yet?
It's hard to say with any absolute certainty, because other all-time greats have peaked around 29-32 years old, but LeBron is at that age where players reach their peak. I mean he could get better, it's not out of the question; but there's also a possibility this is the best version of LeBron.

[Greg Oden 50]

not even close...............

Bird is over LeBron forever

[tikay0]

It's hard to say with any absolute certainty, because other all-time greats have peaked around 29-32 years old, but LeBron is at that age where players reach their peak. I mean he could get better, it's not out of the question; but there's also a possibility this is the best version of LeBron.

Lebron came into the league as a HS player, and relies mainly on his athleticism. More wear and tear on his body from the start. Yes, he has the best PEDs money can buy, but honestly, his numbers aren't getting better than they currently are. He might be able to be more effective in the post, maybe, but I don't see it.

[Pushxx]

If I'm starting a franchise, I choose Bird over any other player, including MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, and Shaq.

Out of the top 7, Bird would benefit the most from modern medicine and training, and the *****-ass league the NBA is now.

Bird's peak was out of this world. He proved himself against the best competition the league has ever seen.

[Rose'sACL]

of course these are not the exact copy but these are a few long passes from lebron and no it is not like bird's because he is the one outrunning the other team most of the times as he is the fastest guy on the team:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=443s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9CUVV-HmFM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=351s
If you are talking about touch passes, i will show you some:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=166s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=209s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=415s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=498s
These are all from the same video too. i am doing your work here as it is only a 9 min video which i posted before which you clearly didn't watch.
here are some passes in crowd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=369s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=485s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=490s

Here is a great pass on the offensive rebound in the same video i posted before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=220s
another :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=432s
Behind the back from same video which is only 9 mins long and you have problem watching it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=268s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=288s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=305s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=443s
If you are going to be as strict in your criteria show me some passes like these from bird :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=522s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=153s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=334s (don't give me an excuse that bird can't make that pass as he can't jump that high as jumping is a big part of basketball)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=452s

If you want to talk about 3 pointers, the video i posted in my last post has only 1 or 2 3-pointers.
just yesterday, miami was really bad from 3 pt range and most easy dunks birdman had were from passes from lebron.He had 10 assists in that game. stop talking like he is not a great passer to players in the paint. He has great strength in his wrist and is able to make really fast passes to 3 pt shooters which gives them a lot of time to shoot. Should he stop passing to them so that he could please you?
If you want to talk about video length, i am sure some lebron-stan will make a 10 hour video when he retires.

[Nuff Said]

bird himself said lebron is better

[LAZERUSS]

Very close. And in terms of career, Lebron will probably surpass Bird this season. From that point on, it will be a question of just how far up the list he moves before he retires.

[Trollsmasher]

People here claiming, that Bird's random throwing of Hale Mary passes to 2 teammates who were already waiting under the opposite basket in the moment he collected the rebound (seriously, what kind of pace is that? I am not even trying to imagine how dominate LeBron would be in an era where every other possession is a fastbreak) is better than LeBron's precise picking of halfcourt defense apart, are ridiculous:facepalm

[Harison]

Only those who were born in the 90s and up would say LBJ is the GOAT SF. I started watching basketball in the 80s and can say without a doubt that Larry Legend is the GOAT SF. If someone needs an explanation why I say this then it's clear that someone has never seen prime Larry Legend.

What he said.

[dh144498]

Bird was not a better passer than LeBron, it's that simpple. And I don't believe he was a better rebounder either. Rebounding is all about effort. When LeBron puts the effort into it like he did in the 2012 playoffs he can rebound with the best of them, and that included many offensive rebounds and finishes.

:lol
:biggums:

[LAZERUSS]

Bird was the better rebounder, they were equals in passing, Lebron has been the better defender, and while Bird was the better shooter, Lebron has been the better pure scorer.

And on't forget that Lebron, barring injury, will be among the elite for the next several seasons. Furthermore, and given his staggering efficiency this season, he is likely to get better.

[KOBE143]

Battle for the GOAT era-specific player.. :bowdown:

Who will win that title? LeBron or Bird.. :confusedshrug:

[greymatter]

It's close in terms of overall ability and under that consideration Lebron is better. Bird's skillset/game is superior with regards to maximizing team play. It's pretty much the same argument why I'd take peak Bird over any version of Jordan. Same applies to Bird over Lebron.

Bird wouldn't have struggled trying to fit his game with DWade's his first year playing with him.

[Pointguard]

Peak vs Peak
Bird's three year peak was among the best in the game. Lebron is just starting to peak or could be in his second year? I have Bird ahead in peak vs peak by a slight margin. But I already have Lebron ahead in prime vs prime.

On passing its very close, primarily because of Lebron's speed and ability to play a much faster game. A guy making split second decision passes is operating at a higher level. Most of us can drive a car fast, but a race car driver that doesn't make great split decisions won't finish the race - so its definitely a factor. Lebron and Wade are the greatest passing duo ever - they have a super low risk factor despite aggressive play. And Lebron is one of a few that can make cross court passes consistently - not a big factor but a small one worth noting. Both are at elite levels. To close to call.

IMO, Lebron would have outplayed Bird. I'm basing that on James Worthy's play vs Bird in their day. Bird outplayed James but they were close in play. Worthy's main attribute was speed. He was pretty much a one dimensional player without the speed, strength, coordination, penetrating, versatility, quickness of thought, passing, rebounding, defending, instincts or even scoring ability that Lebron had.