#1 NBA Playoff Series Performance Of All-Time

[Deuce Bigalow]

Let's see how ISH compiles a list of the greatest individual playoff series performances of all-time. All years are included as well as all series. The rules are simple. Vote for a player and the series which was an all-time great performance. A poster must have 100 posts.

Results
1995 WCF - Hakeem Olajuwon (7)
2006 Finals - Dwyane Wade (6)
1991 Finals - Michael Jordan (4)
2000 Finals - Shaquille O'Neal (4)
1993 Finals - Michael Jordan (2)
2003 Finals - Tim Duncan (2)
1967 EDF - Wilt Chamberlain (1)
1994 WCF - Hakeem Olajuwon (1)
2009 ECF - Lebron James (1)
1992 EC1Rd - Michael Jordan (1)
2001 WCF - Kobe Bryant (1)
1984 EC1Rd - Bernard King (1)
1987 Finals - Magic Johnson (1)
1977 WCSF - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1)
2006 ECF - Dwyane Wade (1)
2001 ECSF - Allen Iverson (1)
1997 Finals - Michael Jordan (1)

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0604/play_g_jordan01jr_576.jpg http://i2.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/multimedia/photo_gallery/0903/shaqcareer0306/images/shaq6.jpg

[waseem780]

Hakeem 94 WCF' against Spurs

[tmacattack33]

Don't count my vote yet...I'll probably think of other playoff series performances and have to change it...but I just want to put one down for now...

Dirk Nowitzki, 2011 WCF (vs OKC)

[Droid101]

Kobe WCF against Spurs 2001

Shaq pretty much any Finals 2000-2002

[Solefade]

LeBron's 2012 ECF elimination game 6 at Boston: Statistically not GOAT but if you watched it, given the narrative with the IMMENSE pressure of the "make or break career" game and the media just waiting to set LeBron on fire as soon as he loses, he responded pretty amazingly. I was in awe of what was happening during the course of the game.

MJ and Shaq had better games statistically but neither ever entered a game with that much pressure and performed like how LBJ did.

[Young X]

Jordan vs. '90 76ers (5 games)
43/7/7/4 stls on 55/39/85 (61.6 TS%)

Jordan vs. '91 Lakers (5 games)
31/11/6.6/2.8 stls on 56/50/85 (61 TS%)

[jzek]

http://i.imgur.com/gZfSoMV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1r07Znh.jpg

[JimmyMcAdocious]

LeBron fan ignores thread premise and goes off with his own shit. Oh, I'm on ISH. Nevermind.

Duncan's Finals against the Nets was rather dominating.
23.5 ppg / 17.5 rpg / 5.8 apg / 5.5 bpg

[Rose'sACL]

Tim duncan drafted in 1997 and in 99 playoffs conference semi-finals has these numbers against lakers : 29ppg 10.8RPG.
Finals same year against knicks : 27.4 ppg 14 RPG. I rank these pretty high because he was only in his 2nd year in the league.

Hekeem olajuwon conference finals 1995 : 35.3PPG , 12.5 RPG, 5APG, 4.2 Blocks/game.

Lebron James ECF 2009: 38.5ppg/8.3RPG/8APG on 49% shooting.

[TylerOO]

LeBron's entire postseason last year.

[I<3NBA]

we are asked for a series. not just a game. bear that in mind.

[ProfessorMurder]

LeBron's 2012 ECF elimination game 6 at Boston: Statistically not GOAT but if you watched it, given the narrative with the IMMENSE pressure of the "make or break career" game and the media just waiting to set LeBron on fire as soon as he loses, he responded pretty amazingly. I was in awe of what was happening during the course of the game.

MJ and Shaq had better games statistically but neither ever entered a game with that much pressure and performed like how LBJ did.
:lol Boston was so injured it was stupid. They had no business being in that series.

[fpliii]

Wilt vs Boston in 67

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm going with Shaq in the '00 Finals.

[fpliii]

I'm going with Shaq in the '00 Finals.

:applause:

BTW does ABA count? If so, I may have to change my pick to 76 J...

[Deuce Bigalow]

:applause:

BTW does ABA count? If so, I may have to change my pick to 76 J...
If you want it too?
You see tape of the 67 Wilt series fp?

[leMVP]

the list would be dominated by BIGs.

only 2 names you can add would be MJ and lebron.

also i feel that lebron's last year finals series don't get many votes, the guy almost averaged triple double and completely dominated okc.

[Harison]

1994 WCF - Hakeem

[fpliii]

If you want it too?
You see tape of the 67 Wilt series fp?

Game 4 mostly (triple double with 8 blocks I believe). Available on YouTube. I'm not a big Wilt guy, but when Hannum (and Sharman to a lesser extent) coached him he was a beast.

Erving was incredible vs Denver (with Bobby Jones), so it's a tough call. Up to you if ABA counts though.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hakeem 94 WCF' against Spurs
The WCF series vs the Spurs was in 95. So I assume you mean the 95 series, right?

[pauk]

Lebron vs Orlando ECF

[Deuce Bigalow]

Game 4 mostly (triple double with 8 blocks I believe). Available on YouTube. I'm not a big Wilt guy, but when Hannum (and Sharman to a lesser extent) coached him he was a beast.

Erving was incredible vs Denver (with Bobby Jones), so it's a tough call. Up to you if ABA counts though.
I might check out some of that game. 67 is probably Wilt's best year legacy wise, plus I want to see how that defense looks like...Whatever vote you want, I can add an ABA series in there.

[fpliii]

I might check out some of that game. 67 is probably Wilt's best year legacy wise, plus I want to see how that defense looks like...Whatever vote you want, I can add an ABA series in there.

Yeah a near quad double series average against the 8x defending champs is hard to beat. Doc though:

1976 Finals - 37.7/14.2/5.3/3.0/2.2 on .590/--/.786 shooting (don't have his 3pa) against Bobby Jones. :eek:

[f0und]

jordan vs miami 1992 (3 games)

45 ppg
61% fg
9.6 reb
6.6 asst
3 stls
1 blk

[gengiskhan]

jordan 1985 playoffs rookie yr (hit a game winner)
jordan 1986 playoffs sophmore yr
jordan 1987 playoffs
jordan 1988 playoffs
jordan 1989 playoffs
jordan 1990 playoffs
jordan 1991 playoffs
jordan 1992 playoffs
jordan 1993 playoffs
jordan 1995 playoffs
jordan 1996 playoffs
jordan 1997 playoffs
jordan 1998 playoffs

[KyleKong]

LeBron James in game six of the WCF was the best performance of any athlete I have ever seen.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Keyword: Series

[3LiftHeatCurse]

2006 NBA Finals - Dwyane Wade

[Droid101]

Okay... not taking my vote unless I vote for a single series? Fine.

Kobe Bryant

2001 Western Conference Finals.

Biggest Margin of Victory for any Western Conference Finals Series in League History!!, against a great Spurs team.

33.3 PPG, 7 RPG, 7 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 51% FG, 36% 3FG, 77% FT.

He literally destroyed a championship caliber team in a manner that has never been done before, and never has been done since, in a Western Conference Finals. Ever.

[Odinn]

There are so many all-time great series. It's too hard to pick just one.

I think doing this decade by decade would be much healthier. Then we can discuss the greatest.

[LongLiveTheKing]

LeBron James in game six of the WCF was the best performance of any athlete I have ever seen.
:lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan vs. '90 76ers (5 games)
43/7/7/4 stls on 55/39/85 (61.6 TS%)

Jordan vs. '91 Lakers (5 games)
31/11/6.6/2.8 stls on 56/50/85 (61 TS%)
:pimp:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Okay... not taking my vote unless I vote for a single series? Fine.

Kobe Bryant

2001 Western Conference Finals.

Biggest Margin of Victory for any Western Conference Finals Series in League History!!, against a great Spurs team.

33.3 PPG, 7 RPG, 7 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 51% FG, 36% 3FG, 77% FT.

He literally destroyed a championship caliber team in a manner that has never been done before, and never has been done since, in a Western Conference Finals. Ever.
Nothing personal man it's just that you had one series then 3 other series so I didn't really know if you wanted one of them counted or was listing some.

[Odinn]

Nothing personal man it's just that you had one series then 3 other series so I didn't really know if you wanted one of them counted or was listing some.
I think we should pick who are going to vote much more carefully.

I mean, as you know, Duncan is my all-time favourite and if I vote for Duncan just because of this?
A stan will vote for his favourite player without considering any other player.

Also;

There are so many all-time great series. It's too hard to pick just one.
I think doing this decade by decade would be much healthier. Then we can discuss the greatest.

[necya]

C'mon !
Hard to pick one, will go with Bernard King against the Pistons in 1984

[eurobum]

Jordan 1993 finals: 41 ppg / 8.5 rpg / 6.3 apg / 1.7 spg / .508 FG

[bdreason]

Probably Hakeem's 95 WCF against the Spurs. Or maybe Shaq's Finals appearances in 2000 and 2001.

[LAZERUSS]

How about Chamberlain's '64-65 ECF, when he took his 40-40 Sixers to a game seven, one point loss, against Russell's 62-18 Celtics?

Thanks to Julizaver for this info:




Game 1 - 04.04.1965 - Boston win

Chamberlain 48 min 33 points (13-22 FG and 7/12 FT) 31 rebs, 3 assists
Russell 48 min 11 points (5-13 FG and 1/5 FT) 32 rebounds, 6 assists

Game 2 - 06.04.1965 - Phila win

Chamberlain 48 min 30 points (12-19 FG and 6/9 FT) 39 rebs, 8 assists, 8 blocks
Russell 48 min 12 points (5-12 FG and 2/3 FT) 16 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 blocks

Game 3 - 08.04.1965 - Boston win

Chamberlain 48 min 24 points (7-21 FG and 10/15 FT) 37 rebs, 1 assist, 1 steal
Russell 48 min 19 points (9-17 FG and 1/4 FT) 26 rebounds, 8 assists, 3 steals

Game 4 - 09.04.1965 - Phila win

Chamberlain 53 min 34 points (11-24 FG and 12/20 FT) 34 rebs, 3 assists
Russell 52 min 18 points (8-19 FG and 2/7 FT) 25 rebounds

Game 5 - 11.04.1965 - Boston win

Chamberlain 30 points (13-23 FG and 4/8 FT) 21 rebs, 2 assists, 2 blocks
Russell 12 points (4-7 FG and 4/5 FT) 28 rebounds, 7 assists, 12 blocks, 3 steals

Game 6 - 13.04.1965 - Phila win

Chamberlain 48 min 30 points (13-22 FG and 4/8 FT) 26 rebs, 4 assists, 6 blocks *at least
Russell 22 points (8-19 FG and 6/10 FT) 21 rebounds, 5 assists

Game 7 - 15.04.1965 - Boston win

Chamberlain 48 min 30 points (12-15 FG and 6/13 FT) 32 rebs, 2 assists, 1 block
Russell 15 points (7-16 FG and 1/2 FT) 29 rebounds, 8 assists, 6 blocks


The series averages:

W. Chamberlain - 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, 3.3 apg 55.48 FG % and 58.33 FT%
B. Russell - 15.6 ppg, 25.3 rpg, 6.5* apg 44.67 FG % and 47.22 FT %

* no data available for Game 4, so averages for 6 games



Incidently, and thanks to fpliii, we now know that Chamberlain recorded 11 blocks in game one, and 13 in game six.

[LAZERUSS]

Or how about Wilt's 63-64 WCF's, when he took a pathetic roster to a 48-32 record, and then a game seven series win over a 46-36 St. Louis team that was considerably better, players 2-6. That Hawks team featured a Pettit who was still averaging 27.4 ppg and 15.3 rpg, Cliff Hagen, Richie Guerin, Lenny Wilkens, Bill Bridges, and their center, Zelmor Beaty, who would go on to be a 5-time all-star player in his career.


In game three he scored 46 points, on 19-36 shooting from the floor, with 23 rebounds. In game five he scored 50 points, on 22-32 shooting, and with 15 rebounds and 6 assists. And in the clinching game seven win, he scored 39 points, on 19-29 shooting, with 30 rebounds, and an estimated 12 blocks.

For the series, Chamberlain averaged 38.6 ppg, 23.0 rpg, and shot .559 from the field.

[TheTenth]

Or how about Wilt's 63-64 WCF's, when he took a pathetic roster to a 48-32 record, and then a game seven series win over a 46-36 St. Louis team that was considerably better, players 2-6. That Hawks team featured a Pettit who was still averaging 27.4 ppg and 15.3 rpg, Cliff Hagen, Richie Guerin, Lenny Wilkens, Bill Bridges, and their center, Zelmor Beaty, who would go on to be a 5-time all-star player in his career.


In game three he scored 46 points, on 19-36 shooting from the floor, with 23 rebounds. In game five he scored 50 points, on 22-32 shooting, and with 15 rebounds and 6 assists. And in the clinching game seven win, he scored 39 points, on 19-29 shooting, with 30 rebounds, and an estimated 12 blocks.

For the series, Chamberlain averaged 38.6 ppg, 23.0 rpg, and shot .559 from the field.
That, the 1997 Finals by Jordan, or the 1988 series by Olajuwon are the three greatest series I can think of off the top of my head.

[KOBE143]

LeBron 2011 NBA finals.. :bowdown:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan's '91 Finals is as perfect a series as a player can have: 31.2 pts/6/7 reb/11.4 ast/2.8 stl/1.4 blk/56% FG and absurd defensive impact even beyond those numbers. Dude was everywhere this series. Hit 13 straight FG's in game 2. Epic.

Aside from that, Jordan's '90 series vs. Philly is the most dominant I can recall: 43.0 pts/6.6 reb/7.4 ast/4.0 stl/1.2 blk/55% FG. And those defensive numbers don't tell half the story about how good he was defensively this series - dude got his hands on the ball like 6-10 times each game, caused bad/hurried shots, broke up transition opportunities singlehandedly etc. Just a terror.

He has a had a few other series on that level offensively too:

45.0 pts/9.7 reb/6.7 ast/3.0stl/1.0 blk/61% FG vs. Miami in 1992

39.8 pts/5.8 reb/8.2 ast/3.0 stl/52% FG vs. Cleveland in 1989

36.8 pts/8.0 reb/7.0 ast/2.5 stl/1.0 blk/54% FG vs. Milwaukee in 1990


And a few others too (his '92 and '93 Finals, for instance, were not far off from this level offensively).

[fpliii]

jlauber - What are Wilt's best 10 series, in your opinion? It's really tough for me to pick the 64 WDF or 65 ECF over the 67 Boston series. Yes, his team was better (largely because of Wilt himself) but he averaged a likely quad double and knocked off the 8-time defending NBA champs.

[TheTenth]

jlauber - What are Wilt's best 10 series, in your opinion? It's really tough for me to pick the 64 WDF or 65 ECF over the 67 Boston series. Yes, his team was better (largely because of Wilt himself) but he averaged a likely quad double and knocked off the 8-time defending NBA champs.
Lol I'm not jlauber but I can help out here.

His series vs. the Royal in 1967 was the best all around/most efficient.
His first ever playoff series against Nats was 2nd best scoring but the worst rebounding one.
His 1964 series vs. Hawks was probably the best scoring/rebounding/efficiency combo he put up.

[jlauber]

jlauber - What are Wilt's best 10 series, in your opinion? It's really tough for me to pick the 64 WDF or 65 ECF over the 67 Boston series. Yes, his team was better (largely because of Wilt himself) but he averaged a likely quad double and knocked off the 8-time defending NBA champs.

His '67 ECF's was likely his greatest. Not just his numbers, either, but the fact that he so thoroughly outplayed Russell in every facet of the game. He outscored Russell, per game, 21.6 ppg to 10.2 ppg; he outassisted Russell. per game, 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg; he outrebounded Russell, per game, 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg; and he outshot Russell from the field by a .556 to .358 margin.

That was a known triple double series, and while I don't believe he averaged double-digit blocks, in the four known games, he averaged 7.3 bpg, which included a know game performance of 24-32-13 and 12 blocks (on 10-16 shooting.) And he just crushed Russell in the clinching game five win, outscoring him, 29-4; outshooting him, 10-16 to 2-5; outassisting him, 13-7; and outrebounding him, 36-21.

And as The Tenth stated, how about his performance in the previous series against the Royals? 28 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, .612 FG%, and an estimated 12.3 bpg. In that series, he had scoring games of 41, on 19-30 shooting, and 37 points, on 16-24 shooting, too. And if the estimated figure is anywhere close to correct, his game three was a sensational quad-double (16 points, 30 rebounds, 19 assists, and 20 blocks.)

And finally, he then absolutely destroyed Nate Thurmond in the Finals, too. And this was a prime Thurmond, in arguably his greatest season (he finished second in the MVP voting.) He outscored Nate, per game, 17.5 pg to 14.3 ppg; outrebounded Thurmond, per game; 28.5 to 26.7 rpg; and outshot Nate by an eye-popping .560 to .343 margin. And those numbers don't come close to illustrating his overhwleming dominance against Thurmond. He outscored Thurmond in five of those six games, and outrebounded him in five of the six (including one game by a 38-31 margin.) And in the clinching game six win he outscored Thurmond, 24-12; outrebounded him, 23-22; and outshot him from the field, 8-13 to 4-13. Once again, though, that .560 FG% against Thurmond was unbelievable. Kareem faced Thurmond in three playoff series, and shot .486, .428, and .405 against him.

He also added 6.8 apg, which included two games of 10...or two more triple-doubles. And, he had a known 10 block game in that series, and the estimated total was 61, or 10.2 bpg, and two estimated games of 15 and 13. If the blocked shots were correct, that would have given him another quad double game in game two of 10-38-10-10.

If the blocked shots were correct, Chamberlain would have averaged a triple-double in all three playoff series, and a quad-double in one of them. His complete playoff averages would have been, 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, 9.2 apg, 10.0 bpg, and all on .579 shooting. Furthermore, he just buried all three of his opposing centers in the process, including HOFers Thurmond and Russell.

[Wally450]

Holy Shit he's back ^^ :eek: :eek: :bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem's '70-71 Finals, in a sweeping win... 27 ppg, 18.5 rpg, .605 shooting. IMHO, his greatest regular season and post-season combined.

Russell's '64-65 Finals. 18 ppg, 27 rpg, and a record .702 FG%. All in a 4-1 blowout series win.

Barry's '74-75 Finals, when he took his 48-34 Warrior team to a 4-0 sweep of the heavily-favored 60-22 Bullets, in a series in which he averaged 30 ppg.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wait, why is he posting on both accounts now?

[LAZERUSS]

Wait, why is he posting on both accounts now?

???

[Deuce Bigalow]

???
:rolleyes:

[LAZERUSS]

Chamberlain's 64-65 ECF's play was a prime "scoring" Wilt at his peak. A 30 ppg, 31 rpg, .555 FG% series against what many considered a peak Russell just has to rank among the greatest playoff series performances of all-time. And once again, taking a 40-40 team (that had gone 34-46 the year before he arrived) to a game seven, one point loss, against the 62-18 Celtics at the apex of their dynasty was truly remarkable. And his game seven of 30 points, on 12-15 shooting from the floor, with 32 rebounds is also one of the greatest single game playoff performances as well.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Chamberlain's 64-65 ECF's play was a prime "scoring" Wilt at his peak. A 30 ppg, 31 rpg, .555 FG% series against what many considered a peak Russell just has to rank among the greatest playoff series performances of all-time. And once again, taking a 40-40 team (that had gone 34-46 the year before he arrived) to a game seven, one point loss, against the 62-18 Celtics at the apex of their dynasty was truly remarkable. And his game seven of 30 points, on 12-15 shooting from the floor, with 32 rebounds is also one of the greatest single game playoff performances as well.
Is that your vote? And isn't it called the Eastern Division Finals? Not ECF's yet.

[LAZERUSS]

Is that your vote? And isn't it called the Eastern Division Finals? Not ECF's yet.

Not sure yet. He averaged 38.6 ppg, 23.4 rpg, and shot .559 in a seven game series against the Hawks in the '64 WDF's. In fact, counting his play against Russell's Celtics in the Finals, he averaged 34.7 ppg on .543 shooting in the entire playoffs, to go along with 25.2 rpg...in a post-season that averaged 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting. Think about that.

But then again...he was just as dominant in his entire '67 post-season, too.

I will have to think about this some more...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Not sure yet. He averaged 38.6 ppg, 23.4 rpg, and shot .559 in a seven game series against the Hawks in the '64 WDF's. In fact, counting his play against Russell's Celtics in the Finals, he averaged 34.7 ppg on .543 shooting in the entire playoffs, to go along with 25.2 rpg...in a post-season that averaged 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting. Think about that.

But then again...he was just as dominant in his entire '67 post-season, too.

I will have to think about this some more...
Alright. But don't start using false correlations to prop up Wilt again. Whatever the league is doing has nothing do with how "hard" it is for him. The league averages in the '50s was in the thirty percent range, so I guess Mikan played in the toughest era of all-time....Please.

[Magic 32]

No Kobe 2010 Suns series? That was his best WCF ever.

33.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 8.3 apg, .521 fg%.

Also Jazz series 2008

33.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.2 apg, .491 fg%.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I think we should pick who are going to vote much more carefully.

I mean, as you know, Duncan is my all-time favourite and if I vote for Duncan just because of this?
A stan will vote for his favourite player without considering any other player.

Also;
Well I think that is because when you have a favorite player, you obviuosly watch them more closely than other players so when your favorite has a great series/game/run it's more memorable and "greater" to you.

[Deuce Bigalow]

A series people should consider even though his team lost the series - Jerry West in the '69 NBA Finals.

[dh144498]

Jordan 91 finals.

[La Frescobaldi]

I'm not sure about #1 of all time but to me Dirk Nowitski's run a couple years ago has to rank up there towards the top. dude was indomitable

Somebody mentioned Julius Erving in '76 ABA and yeah for sure!! But what about Dan Issel just the year before on the Colonels ? I mean he had some all time greats on his team with A-Train & Louis Dampier.... but is that the criteria here?
Issel is so totally forgot and that's not right. He was incredible in those days.
And, you can equally flip that fact in '75 ABA and talk about how A-Train had a great run in that season!! Artis had an amazing hook shot - totally forgotten today.
But that was the same year Rick Barry had that amazing playoffs over in the NBA!! Can you really pick just 1 and say it's better than any other?

Dennis Johnson's run was incredible - he is the only guard in history to do what he did, really, leading a team of no-names like that to the championship. His first ring is forgot due to his glory years with Larry Bird, McHale & Chief's Boston teams... but in the 70s he was amazing!!

I might go with John Havlicek in '69. Hondo ran wild on everybody

[fpliii]

I'm not sure about #1 of all time but to me Dirk Nowitski's run a couple years ago has to rank up there towards the top. dude was indomitable

Somebody mentioned Julius Erving in '76 ABA and yeah for sure!! But what about Dan Issel just the year before on the Colonels ? I mean he had some all time greats on his team with A-Train & Louis Dampier.... but is that the criteria here?
Issel is so totally forgot and that's not right. He was incredible in those days.
And, you can equally flip that fact in '75 ABA and talk about how A-Train had a great run in that season!! Artis had an amazing hook shot - totally forgotten today.
But that was the same year Rick Barry had that amazing playoffs over in the NBA!! Can you really pick just 1 and say it's better than any other?

Dennis Johnson's run was incredible - he is the only guard in history to do what he did, really, leading a team of no-names like that to the championship. His first ring is forgot due to his glory years with Larry Bird, McHale & Chief's Boston teams... but in the 70s he was amazing!!

I might go with John Havlicek in '69. Hondo ran wild on everybody

Have you had a chance to read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Kentucky-Colonels-American-Basketball-Association/dp/1935001825

?

I'm highly considering picking it up, seems like it'll be a great read.

[La Frescobaldi]

Have you had a chance to read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Kentucky-Colonels-American-Basketball-Association/dp/1935001825

?

I'm highly considering picking it up, seems like it'll be a great read.

shoot i didn't even think about looking for a book.... I was rememberin 70s dude.... but I did add that to the Amazon cart!

You know people always talk about Jerry West winning that first FMVP and how amazing he was - which was totally true. But Havlicek right in through those days was one of the all-time greatest basketball players to ever lace 'em up.

[fpliii]

shoot i didn't even think about looking for a book.... I was rememberin 70s dude.... but I did add that to the Amazon cart!

You know people always talk about Jerry West winning that first FMVP and how amazing he was - which was totally true. But Havlicek right in through those days was one of the all-time greatest basketball players to ever lace 'em up.

:cheers:

Hondo was an incredible defender + athlete, and had a great motor (in addition to the scoring, all-around play otherwise, clutch factor, etc.). He was my pick to slot alongside Barkley in this team-building exercise thread:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296726

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm not sure about #1 of all time but to me Dirk Nowitski's run a couple years ago has to rank up there towards the top. dude was indomitable

Somebody mentioned Julius Erving in '76 ABA and yeah for sure!! But what about Dan Issel just the year before on the Colonels ? I mean he had some all time greats on his team with A-Train & Louis Dampier.... but is that the criteria here?
Issel is so totally forgot and that's not right. He was incredible in those days.
And, you can equally flip that fact in '75 ABA and talk about how A-Train had a great run in that season!! Artis had an amazing hook shot - totally forgotten today.
But that was the same year Rick Barry had that amazing playoffs over in the NBA!! Can you really pick just 1 and say it's better than any other?

Dennis Johnson's run was incredible - he is the only guard in history to do what he did, really, leading a team of no-names like that to the championship. His first ring is forgot due to his glory years with Larry Bird, McHale & Chief's Boston teams... but in the 70s he was amazing!!

I might go with John Havlicek in '69. Hondo ran wild on everybody
The criteria is a single playoff series. Not an entire playoff run spanning multiple series.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan's '91 Finals is as perfect a series as a player can have: 31.2 pts/6/7 reb/11.4 ast/2.8 stl/1.4 blk/56% FG and absurd defensive impact even beyond those numbers. Dude was everywhere this series. Hit 13 straight FG's in game 2. Epic.

Aside from that, Jordan's '90 series vs. Philly is the most dominant I can recall: 43.0 pts/6.6 reb/7.4 ast/4.0 stl/1.2 blk/55% FG. And those defensive numbers don't tell half the story about how good he was defensively this series - dude got his hands on the ball like 6-10 times each game, caused bad/hurried shots, broke up transition opportunities singlehandedly etc. Just a terror.

He has a had a few other series on that level offensively too:

45.0 pts/9.7 reb/6.7 ast/3.0stl/1.0 blk/61% FG vs. Miami in 1992

39.8 pts/5.8 reb/8.2 ast/3.0 stl/52% FG vs. Cleveland in 1989

36.8 pts/8.0 reb/7.0 ast/2.5 stl/1.0 blk/54% FG vs. Milwaukee in 1990


And a few others too (his '92 and '93 Finals, for instance, were not far off from this level offensively).
Ill

:biggums:

[LAZERUSS]

I know I mentioned Russell's '65 Finals, but has anyone brought up Russell's '62 Finals...culminated by his game seven of 30 points and 40 rebounds?

Kareem's '85 Finals deserve consideration, as well.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:cheers:

Hondo was an incredible defender + athlete, and had a great motor (in addition to the scoring, all-around play otherwise, clutch factor, etc.). He was my pick to slot alongside Barkley in this team-building exercise thread:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296726
Is it time to change that avatar fp?

[joeyjoejoe]

I'd like to see this by position

[D-Wade316]

2006 Finals Wade :cheers:

[La Frescobaldi]

I'd like to see this by position

Center - Chamberlain 1967 EDF quadruple doubles against the Celtics Dynasty
Guard - Jordan take your pick; for me it's '93
Guard - Dennis Johnson 1979 Finals (there's plenty of better stat lines, but DJ had the best finals, considering teammates, ever)
Forward - John Havlicek 1969 Finals
Forward - Larry Bird 86 Bulls Hawks Bucks Rox take your pick he ran em all off the court

There's plenty of others but those might be it for me by position

[LAZERUSS]

Magic's '87 Finals. 26 ppg (led both team's), 13 apg (led both teams), 8 rpg (led his team), .541 FG%, .960 FT%, .500 3 PT%. Completely dominated a Celtic team with five HOFers.

[Rasheed1]

I would say its either 2006 Wade in the finals or 1998 Mj against the Jazz

[LAZERUSS]

Center - Chamberlain 1967 EDF quadruple doubles against the Celtics Dynasty
Guard - Jordan take your pick; for me it's '93
Guard - Dennis Johnson 1979 Finals (there's plenty of better stat lines, but DJ had the best finals, considering teammates, ever)
Forward - John Havlicek 1969 Finals
Forward - Larry Bird 86 Bulls Hawks Bucks Rox take your pick he ran em all off the court

There's plenty of others but those might be it for me by position

Not Magic's '87 Finals (or his '82 Finals, or his '88 Finals, or his '80 Finals?)

[fpliii]

Is it time to change that avatar fp?

I should probably ride it out until the end of the Finals lol. If I find something that catches my eye though, I'll change it.

[Flash31]

Don't count my vote yet...I'll probably think of other playoff series performances and have to change it...but I just want to put one down for now...

Dirk Nowitzki, 2011 WCF (vs OKC)


WHILE HE SCORED GREAT AND WAS EXTREMELY EFFICIENT,what the f was going on with the reffing there,literally Nobody could touch Dirk,as soon as he got the ball,whistle,not even a move or shot attempt,

he had a game where he scored 40 points on 8 fg made or so

him and durant had more fta than fga

he avg,not made,AVG,20FTA to Durants 19FTA

There were games where each team got 45-50 FTA,thats 90-100 fta for the whoole game,Not Shaq,Wade,MJ,WILT,Dwight nobody got as many

[Flash31]

ok but anywys,

Wade 06 Finals,Wade 11 Finals

Wilt Chamberlain 67 Finals

Wade vs Detroit Pistons 05,06

Reggie Miller vs Knicks

[aj1987]

2006 Finals - Dwyane Wade

[Magic 32]

2006 Finals - Dwyane Wade

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3214/3125950882_172ab5e6de_o.png

[Deuce Bigalow]

Magic's '87 Finals. 26 ppg (led both team's), 13 apg (led both teams), 8 rpg (led his team), .541 FG%, .960 FT%, .500 3 PT%. Completely dominated a Celtic team with five HOFers.
Good pick. Obviously dominated the series statistically but he also had a legendary moment with the skyhook game-winner in game 4.

[Duncan21formvp]

MJ 1991. Against the guy who won the last 2 MVP's and who was 2nd in MVP voting and clearly outplayed him on the highest stage. Also beat the 2x defending champions in a sweep.

[Deuce Bigalow]

MJ 1991. Against the guy who won the last 2 MVP's and who was 2nd in MVP voting and clearly outplayed him on the highest stage. Also beat the 2x defending champions in a sweep.
MJ 1991 what?

[Duncan21formvp]

MJ 1991 what?
Finals.

[Big#50]

Hakeem vs my Favorite player of all time. 1995 WCF destroyed Rodman. Made Robinson a quivering mess. Though the pressure and spotlight seemed to have more to do with it.

Duncan vs Nets Finals
Jordan vs Suns Finals
The refs 2002 WCF
The Refs in 2010 Finals
Dikembe vs the Sonics first round 8 beats 1 seed
Duncan vs The Mavs 2006 second round

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hakeem vs my Favorite player of all time. 1995 WCF destroyed Rodman. Made Robinson a quivering mess. Though the pressure and spotlight seemed to have more to do with it.

Duncan vs Nets Finals
Jordan vs Suns Finals
The refs 2002 WCF
The Refs in 2010 Finals
Dikembe vs the Sonics first round 8 beats 1 seed
Duncan vs The Mavs 2006 second round
So is Hakeem 95 WCF your vote?

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3214/3125950882_172ab5e6de_o.png
That photoshop job looks so good that I used to think that pic was real a while ago.

[TonyMontana]

2006 Finals - Dwyane Wade
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/0608/nba_wade_580.jpg
-34.7 PPG 7.8 RPG 3.8 APG 46.8FG% 33.8 PER for the series
-Miami down 0-2 and about to go down 0-3 with a 13 point deficit with 6 minutes left.
-Wade averages over 40+ PPG for the next 4 games to get 4 wins in a row with tons of game winners and clutch moments.
-On the biggest stage, the Finals
-Had a weak cast, noone has willed a team to a title single handily more than Wade did in the 2006 Finals.

[Papaya Petee]

06 Wade, a third year player doing what he did is ****ing unheard of.

[Heavincent]

2006 Finals - Joey Crawford
http://basketfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/url-4.jpeg
-Miami down 0-2 and about to go down 0-3 with a 13 point deficit with 6 minutes left when Crawford blatantly rigs the game in Miami's favor.
- tons of questionable calls in Miami's favor with a huge FT disparity.
-Had a weak cast, noone has willed a team to a title single handily more than Crawford did in the 2006 Finals.

:applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Does RG deserve a vote?

[Remix]

35ppg, half from the FT line

[Kiddlovesnets]

lol 2001 Kobe, seriously? It was Shaq's one man show until 2003.
:facepalm

Anyway my vote goes for Shaq 2000 Finals, he destroyed an entire Pacers team all by himself.
:applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

lol 2001 Kobe, seriously? It was Shaq's one man show until 2003.
:facepalm

Anyway my vote goes for Shaq 2000 Finals, he destroyed an entire Pacers team all by himself.
:applause:
Here we go again...

[WayOfWade]

Dwyane Wade. 2006 NBA Finals.

[Magic 32]

lol 2001 Kobe, seriously? It was Shaq's one man show until 2003.
:facepalm


Kobe:

http://oi39.tinypic.com/au6x6t.jpg

Shaq:

http://oi41.tinypic.com/65wwic.jpg

Kobe was arguably better in every single game

[Remix]

Here we go again...
put me down for 00 shaq as well, but last checked he had teammates

[Deuce Bigalow]

I should probably ride it out until the end of the Finals lol. If I find something that catches my eye though, I'll change it.
You know what my avatar is from?

[LAZERUSS]

Since I voted for Magic's '87 Finals, I guess I am locked in.

But Russell's '66 Finals deserve mention, as well. He led his team in scoring a 23.6 ppg, averaged 24.2 rpg, handed out 3.7 apg, and shot .538 from the field, and .740 from the line. In the clinching game seven 95-93 win, he scored 25 points and grabbed 33 rebounds.

Or how about his '62 Finals? 22.9 ppg, 27.0 rpg, estimated 6-7 apg (in the 5 known games, he had 28), probably 10+ bpg (estimates vary considerably), and he shot .543 FG%, .719 FT%. And in the double OT game seven win, he scored 30 points on 8-18 shooting from the field, and 14-17 from the line, with 4 assists, and at least 8 blocks, with 40 rebounds.

[Fudge]

Hakeem - 1995 WCF

[longhornfan1234]

06 Wade.

[Ne 1]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar 1977 WCSF vs Warriors
Game 1- 27 points, 16 rebounds, 7 assists, 3 blocks, 7/12 FT
Game 2- 40 points, 19 rebounds, 3 assists, 9 blocks, 4/6 FT
Game 3- 28 points, 14 rebounds, 7 assists, 4 blocks, 12/20 FG, 4/7 FT
Game 4- 41 points, 18 rebounds, 3 assists, 0 blocks, 11/16 FT
Game 5- 45 points, 18 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 16/28 FG, 13/18 FT
Game 6- 43 points, 20 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 blocks, 17/25 FG, 9/11 FT
Game 7- 36 points, 26 rebounds, 0 blocks, 14/26 FG, 8/10 FT

Can't think of it off the top of my head but how many players have dropped four 40+ pt games in a series? MJ against the Suns in '93 is the only one that comes to mind. Hakeem was also very close in the '95 WCF vs Spurs, 39 points in Game 6.

[Ne 1]

No Kobe 2010 Suns series? That was his best WCF ever.

33.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 8.3 apg, .521 fg%.


2010 vs Phoenix is definitely up there.

2001 WCF vs San Antonio Spurs

33.3 ppg 7.0 rpg 7.0 apg 51%fg 36%3P 77%FT


2008 WCF vs San Antonio Spurs

29.2 ppg 5.6 rpg 3.8 apg 53%fg 33%3P 91%FT


2009 WCF vs Denver Nuggets

34.0 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.8 apg 48%fg 34%3P 93%FT

Taking into account the opposition's defense, I'll go with the '08 WCF vs. San Antonio. That's excellent efficiency against a VERY good defensive team and from what I recall, majority of the games came down to the wire and Kobe came up big every time. I also don't remember his cast doing a whole lot in that series.

[necya]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar 1977 WCSF vs Warriors
Game 1- 27 points, 16 rebounds, 7 assists, 3 blocks, 7/12 FT
Game 2- 40 points, 19 rebounds, 3 assists, 9 blocks, 4/6 FT
Game 3- 28 points, 14 rebounds, 7 assists, 4 blocks, 12/20 FG, 4/7 FT
Game 4- 41 points, 18 rebounds, 3 assists, 0 blocks, 11/16 FT
Game 5- 45 points, 18 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 16/28 FG, 13/18 FT
Game 6- 43 points, 20 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 blocks, 17/25 FG, 9/11 FT
Game 7- 36 points, 26 rebounds, 0 blocks, 14/26 FG, 8/10 FT

Can't think of it off the top of my head but how many players have dropped four 40+ pt games in a series? MJ against the Suns in '93 is the only one that comes to mind. Hakeem was also very close in the '95 WCF vs Spurs, 39 points in Game 6.

King. I did not pick him because he had 4 straight 40pts games in his 5 games series against Thomas' Pistons, it was because Pistons was the obvious better team and Bernard shooting numbers were just amazing, something like 60% in each games.

:oldlol: at 2001 kobe

[Psileas]

King. I did not pick him because he had 4 straight 40pts games in his 5 games series against Thomas' Pistons, it was because Pistons was the obvious better team and Bernard shooting numbers were just amazing, something like 60% in each games.

:oldlol: at 2001 kobe

And West. He actually has the record, with 6 in a row, and during the same series.

[Overdrive]

'95 Hakeem WCF.

He settled the bigman debate during those two title runs and imo destroyed his fiercest competitor by that time in those WCF.

[f0und]

Dwade vs Pistons 06 ECF

26.6 ppg, 61.7% fg, 5.1 reb, 5.5 asst, 1.83 stl, 1.5 blk

through the first 4 games he was averaging 30.7 ppg on 69.4% fg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDdlEFMIA5Y

[Deuce Bigalow]

For the people who posted a player and a year, you need to post what series you're talking about, either the round or the opponent.

[fpliii]

You know what my avatar is from?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNBsg43cdTc

lol

[Mass Debator]

D-Wade 06

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNBsg43cdTc

lol
Yup :cheers:

[Duncan21formvp]

for people voting Shaq 2000. He was certainly great in the finals, but when you compare him to MJ 1991 you get

MJ in the finals = 31.5 PER and Shaq = 31.1
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-7
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-8

Not only was the competition tougher in 1991, but at least MJ had to play against the guy who finished 2nd in MVP voting in the league and a 5x champion.

[Notitlesince73]

Wade Finals 06

[Shih508]

01 ECSF Allen Iverson - two 50pt games

[Breezy]

Micheal Jordan - 1993 Nba Finals

[Deuce Bigalow]

for people voting Shaq 2000. He was certainly great in the finals, but when you compare him to MJ 1991 you get

MJ in the finals = 31.5 PER and Shaq = 31.1
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-7
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-8

Not only was the competition tougher in 1991, but at least MJ had to play against the guy who finished 2nd in MVP voting in the league and a 5x champion.
If you go by PER though then Wade in the 06 Finals would be number 1. And how was 1991 "tougher"? 1991 was the start of all the great teams of the 80's dying off.

[pauk]

If you go by PER though then Wade in the 06 Finals would be number 1. And how was 1991 "tougher"? 1991 was the start of all the great teams of the 80's dying off.

In Finals only? Not sure, but in any other series it belongs to Lebron (2009 ecf, avg: 39-9-8-2-1) & Hakeem (1988 1st round, avg: 37-17-2-2-3). http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season_p.html

[fpliii]

In Finals? Not sure, but in a single series the highest belongs to Lebron (2009 ECF) & Hakeem (1988). http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season_p.html

Since 1985.

[pauk]

Since 1985.

No, since history... PER considers per minute & per possession productions, which is a bad thing for the likes of Wilt/Oscar as they averaged a ridicilous amount of more poss. per game (pace) in that era... PER says that if for example Jordan (#1 in PER) would play in the 60s his numbers would be............ :)

[Deuce Bigalow]

In Finals? Not sure, but in a single series the highest belongs to Lebron (2009 ecf, avg: 39-8-8-2-1) & Hakeem (1988, avg: 37-17-2-2-3). http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season_p.html
Yes I was talking about Finals. Wade's 06 Finals has the highest PER since all the stats required for it could be calculated. What you posted is a season, or in other words playoff season/run. Hakeem's team only played one round so that is his PER in the '88 WC1Rd. Lebron's team went to the ECF, so that PER is his PER for 3 rounds, not the 09 ECF.

[Duncan21formvp]

If you go by PER though then Wade in the 06 Finals would be number 1. And how was 1991 "tougher"? 1991 was the start of all the great teams of the 80's dying off.
1991 the Bulls beat the 2x defending champions and the guy who finished 2nd in MVP voting. That is significantly much harder than beating an old Indiana team in 2000 which had Smits in his last season.
And I agree Wade's 2006 finals PER was great, but look at some of the guys playing in that series? Other than Dirk who else even put up decent numbers?
Just like I wouldn't say Duncan in 2003 was the best series vs the Nets based on the team being played.

[fpliii]

No, since history... PER considers per minute & per possession productions, which is a bad thing for the likes of Wilt/Oscar as they averaged a ridicilous amount of more poss. per game (pace) in that era... PER says that if for example Jordan (#1 in PER) would play in the 60s his numbers would be............ :)

Problem is, official stats don't exist for blocks, steals, offensive rebounds, and turnovers going that far back. You're feel free to hold whichever beliefs you want of course, but I'm rather confident in my stance.

[KingBeasley08]

Wade 06 Finals


When is this done by the way?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wade 06 Finals


When is this done by the way?
IDK. 50 votes at least?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Problem is, official stats don't exist for blocks, steals, offensive rebounds, and turnovers going that far back. You're feel free to hold whichever beliefs you want of course, but I'm rather confident in my stance.
I thought this was common knowledge?

[Deuce Bigalow]

I got to bump this until we at least get to 50 votes.

[fpliii]

I thought this was common knowledge?

It is, but Pauk keeps on insisting on PER existing prior to 77-78 (when turnovers, the last missing stat became official) or 85 for playoff series (earliest year that B-R has complete box scores to calculate them). It's a worthless calculation anyway for reasons I've outlined plenty of times (and is not needed to prop LeBron up, superior better metrics based on play-by-play such as RAPM do him more than justice), but he keeps pretending that these exchanges haven't taken place.

I'm not even a huge fan of the two guys he mentioned (namely Oscar and Wilt; though I am partial to West and Russell), but it's disingenuous to make definitive statements when B-R uses regression-based estimates (highly dependent on rebound numbers for blocked shots, and highly dependent on assists for steals; I haven't looked into their turnover or offensive rebound estimates, but I'm sure they're limited).

I don't have anything against pauk, but I might have to stop responding to his posts if he's going to carry on like this. He seems to know what he's talking about regarding some aspects of NBA history, but he's unreasonable about certain topics.

[dh144498]

Does RG deserve a vote?

no.

[dh144498]

MJ 91 finals >>>> Wade's whistled 06 finals.

[daj0264]

lebron 2011 finals

[Deuce Bigalow]

no.
I agree

[Odinn]

If fans vote are counted, I'll vote for Tim Duncan - 2003 NBA Finals.
If not, I'll vote for one of these 3;
Shaquille O'Neal - 2000 NBA Finals
Hakeem Olajuwon - 1995 Western Conference Finals
Michael Jordan - 1993 NBA Finals (or 1990 ECS)

Moses Malone - 1981 WC 1st Round [31/18 against Kareem] (at least deserves a mention)

[BoNafidde]

Im voting for Shaq in 2000

[Deuce Bigalow]

Im voting for Shaq in 2000
First round? Semifinals? Conf Finals? Finals?

[Wally450]

I'm gonna say Rondo in either series in 2009. Guy was insane.

[fpliii]

Russell's top 3 Finals (probably):

1962 Finals - 22.9/27.0/5.7 on .543 shooting with 8 blocks (G3), 7 blocks (G5), 9 blocks + triple double (G6), 8+ blocks and a 30-40 game (G7)

1965 Finals - 17.8/25.0/5.8 on .702 shooting with triple double (G2)

1966 Finals - 23.6/24.3/3.7 on .538 shooting

Great defensive series:

1968 Finals - 17.3/21.8/5.7 on .430 shooting with 5+ blocks (G1), 9 blocks (G2), 9 blocks (G3), 8 blocks (G4), 10 blocks (G5), 12 blocks (G6), held LA 6.7 points below their season average

[Deuce Bigalow]

Russell's top 3 Finals (probably):

1962 Finals - 22.9/27.0/5.7 on .543 shooting with 8 blocks (G3), 7 blocks (G5), 9 blocks + triple double (G6), 8+ blocks and a 30-40 game (G7)

1965 Finals - 17.8/25.0/5.8 on .702 shooting with triple double (G2)

1966 Finals - 23.6/24.3/3.7 on .538 shooting

Great defensive series:

1968 Finals - 17.3/21.8/5.7 on .430 shooting with 5+ blocks (G1), 9 blocks (G2), 9 blocks (G3), 8 blocks (G4), 10 blocks (G5), 12 blocks (G6), held LA 6.7 points below their season average
62 is probably his best. 30/40 Game 7 :applause: Wilt could only dream...

[Psileas]

62 is probably his best. 30/40 Game 7 :applause: Wilt could only dream...

He had a 27/38, non-OT, Finals game - and it was against Russell.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He had a 27/38, non-OT, Finals game - and it was against Russell.
Was it a win, and what was his FT-FTA?

[Psileas]

Was it a win, and what was his FT-FTA?

I didn't see you mention any of these things in your previous post, but I obviously did expect you to try to move the bar.
Was Russell's game against a top center? Did he need overtime? Was the pace of the game equal (1962 was higher than 1964)? Etc...

[Deuce Bigalow]

I didn't see you mention any of these things in your previous post, but I obviously did expect you to try to move the bar.
Was Russell's game against a top center? Did he need overtime? Was the pace of the game equal? Etc...
Was Russell the only 7 footer that weighed over 225 pounds in the league like Wilt? Was Russell continously getting knocked out of the playoffs? Was Russell missing 9 FTA in 1 point losses?

[LAZERUSS]

Was it a win, and what was his FT-FTA?

Russell had a 31 point, 30 rebound, 9-12 FT game against Wilt in the '62 EDF's. Arguably one of his greatest playoff games ever. Oh wait, his team lost that game, 110-106. True, he only shot 11-26 from the field, but you can excuse 15 missed FGAs in a four point loss.

Once again, one of Russell's greatest playoff games...ever. In a loss.

Oh, and how Chamberlain do in that same game? 41 points, on 15-29 FG-FGA, 11-22 FT-FTA, and 34 rebounds.

Of course, I could dig up much more dominant games by Chamberlain against Russell, as well.

Psileas already mentioned that 27-38 game. It came on 12-23 shootng from the field, and 3-8 from the line. How about Russell in that same game? 8 points on 3-9 shooting from the floor, and 2-5 from the line, with 19 rebounds. True his team won the game...98-95, but if you are going to blame Wilt for that loss, then you will have to blame MJ for losing in double OT against the 67-15 Celtics in the '86 playoffs.

[Psileas]

Was Russell the only 7 footer that weighed over 225 pounds in the league like Wilt? Was Russell continously getting knocked out of the playoffs? Was Russell missing 9 FTA in 1 point losses?

Look, I'm not the one who moved the bar first. I only did so ON PURPOSE. You claimed that Wilt "could only dream" of having a 30/40 Finals Game, yet he actually came very close 2 years later. That's like claiming that Kobe could only dream of ever scoring 90 points, Magic could only dream of winning 6 championships, etc. Then, the exaggeration is pointed out, then the caller starts using different arguments like "yeah, but Kobe did it against the weak Raptors", "yeah, but the 80's West wasn't that great", etc. Neither argument softens up the exaggeration, because they are irrelevant with the initial point.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Look, I'm not the one who moved the bar first. I only did so ON PURPOSE. You claimed that Wilt "could only dream" of having a 30/40 Finals Game, yet he actually came very close 2 years later. That's like claiming that Kobe could only dream of ever scoring 90 points, Magic could only dream of winning 6 championships, etc. Then, the exaggeration is pointed out, then the caller starts using different arguments like "yeah, but Kobe did it against the weak Raptors", "yeah, but the 80's West wasn't that great", etc. Neither argument softens up the exaggeration, because they are irrelevant with the initial point.
Russell did it in a Game 7 and led his team to victory. Wilt, in fact could only dream of having a performance like that.

[La Frescobaldi]

Russell did it in a Game 7 and led his team to victory. Wilt, in fact could only dream of having a performance like that.
Anybody who ever lived could only dream of having a performance like this:
1967 Eastern Division Finals

Game 1.
Russell 20 pts 15 rebs 4 assists
Chamberlain 24 pts 32 rebs 13 assists + 12 blocks

(the blocks were reported by Sports Illustrated.)

That's a Chamberlain quadruple double.

Game 2.

Russell 14 pts 24 rebs 5 asts
Chamberlain 15 pts 29 rebs 5 asts

Game 3
Russell 10 pts 29 rebs 2 asts
Chamberlain 20 pts 41 rebs 9 asts

Chamberlain's 41 rebounds against Russell is the NBA playoff record.

Game 4
Russell 9 pts 28 rebs 5 asts
Chamberlain 20 pts 22 rebs 10 asts

Chamberlain with the triple double against Russell.

Game 5
Russell 4 pts 21 rebs 7 asts
Chamberlain 29 pts 36 rebs 13 asts

Chamberlain with the triple double against Russell.

*****************

Nobody knew about triple double, or quadruple double back then. There was no such thing. Those terms were invented many years later. But that game 5 brought on a debate that has raged for 40 years.

One of my friends marked his scorecard to show Chamberlain with 16 blocks, but another friend had it with only 15. They still argue about it.

But even without knowing what a quadruple double was (and maybe Harvey Pollack knows the answer), it was plain to everyone that Chamberlain had demolished Russell in every possible way.

****************************
Playoff lines:
Russell 11 ppg 23 rpg 4 apg
Chamberlain 21 ppg 32 rpg 10 apg

Wilt Chamberlain averaged a triple double against Bill Russell over the entire series, and had (at least according to Sports Illustrated & some basketball maniacs in the bleachers) 2 quadruple doubles.

You talk about stats - show us any performance by anyone else of that magnitude - ever.

[TheTenth]

Look, I'm not the one who moved the bar first. I only did so ON PURPOSE. You claimed that Wilt "could only dream" of having a 30/40 Finals Game, yet he actually came very close 2 years later. That's like claiming that Kobe could only dream of ever scoring 90 points, Magic could only dream of winning 6 championships, etc. Then, the exaggeration is pointed out, then the caller starts using different arguments like "yeah, but Kobe did it against the weak Raptors", "yeah, but the 80's West wasn't that great", etc. Neither argument softens up the exaggeration, because they are irrelevant with the initial point.
Good points. It's silly how alot of people prop up Russell yet put down Wilt using the same criteria for their judgement.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Anybody who ever lived could only dream of having a performance like this:
1967 Eastern Division Finals

Game 1.
Russell 20 pts 15 rebs 4 assists
Chamberlain 24 pts 32 rebs 13 assists + 12 blocks

(the blocks were reported by Sports Illustrated.)

That's a Chamberlain quadruple double.

Game 2.

Russell 14 pts 24 rebs 5 asts
Chamberlain 15 pts 29 rebs 5 asts

Game 3
Russell 10 pts 29 rebs 2 asts
Chamberlain 20 pts 41 rebs 9 asts

Chamberlain's 41 rebounds against Russell is the NBA playoff record.

Game 4
Russell 9 pts 28 rebs 5 asts
Chamberlain 20 pts 22 rebs 10 asts

Chamberlain with the triple double against Russell.

Game 5
Russell 4 pts 21 rebs 7 asts
Chamberlain 29 pts 36 rebs 13 asts

Chamberlain with the triple double against Russell.

*****************

Nobody knew about triple double, or quadruple double back then. There was no such thing. Those terms were invented many years later. But that game 5 brought on a debate that has raged for 40 years.

One of my friends marked his scorecard to show Chamberlain with 16 blocks, but another friend had it with only 15. They still argue about it.

But even without knowing what a quadruple double was (and maybe Harvey Pollack knows the answer), it was plain to everyone that Chamberlain had demolished Russell in every possible way.

****************************
Playoff lines:
Russell 11 ppg 23 rpg 4 apg
Chamberlain 21 ppg 32 rpg 10 apg

Wilt Chamberlain averaged a triple double against Bill Russell over the entire series, and had (at least according to Sports Illustrated & some basketball maniacs in the bleachers) 2 quadruple doubles.

You talk about stats - show us any performance by anyone else of that magnitude - ever.
Don't even post the FT-FTA and the amount of points that they lost by though. Lets talk about Game 7s. You know when Wilt's team would lose every time. When Wilt would get outscored by Sam Jones every time. When he would miss 9,10+ freethrows in 1 or 2 point losses. When his coach would not even put him back in the game in the last 5 minutes of a Game 7 in the NBA Finals. 30/40 in a Game 7 win is something Wilt could never do. Why are you even comparing their stat lines though? Wilt was 7'1 250+ pounds. Russell was 6'9" and around 200.

[La Frescobaldi]

Don't even post the FT-FTA and the amount of points that they lost by though. Lets talk about Game 7s. You know when Wilt's team would lose every time. When Wilt would get outscored by Sam Jones every time. When he would miss 9,10+ freethrows in 1 or 2 point losses. When his coach would not even put him back in the game in the last 5 minutes of a Game 7 in the NBA Finals. 30/40 in a Game 7 win is something Wilt could never do. Why are you even comparing their stat lines though? Wilt was 7'1 250+ pounds. Russell was 6'9" and around 200.
lol c'mon man surely you can do better than that.

how did we go from the 1967 EDF to 1962 or 1969? Chamberlain wasn't even on the same team. Use some better logic because that is looking awkward if not downright foolish.

Russell says he played at 240 by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdd2biHVlyA&t=4m43s

[moey-]

Kobe 2010 WCF - 34/7/8 @ 52, 43, 88

[Scholar]

How about Kemba Walker with..



Oh.

[LAZERUSS]

Russell did it in a Game 7 and led his team to victory. Wilt, in fact could only dream of having a performance like that.

And Wilt could only have dreamed of facing that Laker team in a Finals in '62. Chamberlain averaged 51.5 ppg against LA during the regular season that year, which included three games of 60+, one of which was a 78 point, 43 rebound game.

And given the fact that Russell shelled the Lakers in every one of his 60's Finals performances, except one (oh wait, he faced Wilt in that one), one can only wonder what kind of Finals records that Chamberlain would own today had he had the good fortune to have played the Lakers in the Finals in that decade.

How about these performances by Russell against LA?

In '62, he averaged 22.9 ppg, 27.0 rpg, and shot .543 from the field against the Lakers in the Finals. Against Wilt in the previous series? 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, and on a .399 FG%. Oh, BTW, Chamberlain averaged 33.6 ppg, 26.9 rpg, and shot .468 from the floor (in a post-season NBA that shot .411.)

Russell in the '65 Finals against the Lakers. 17.8 ppg, 25.0 rpg, and on, get this, .702 shooting from the field. How about Russell in the previous series against Wilt? 15.6 ppg, 25.3 rpg, and on .447 shooting from the floor. Chamberlain in that series against Russell? 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and on .555 shooting from the floor.

Russell in the '66 Finals against the Lakers. 23.6 ppg, 24.3 rpg, and on .538 shooting from the field. Russell against Wilt in the previous series. 14.0 ppg, 26.2 rpg, and in the two known games, he shot .423 from the field. How about Wilt in that series against Russell? 28.0 ppg, 30.2 rpg, and on .509 shooting from the floor (we do have all five of his games.)


Nobody knew about triple double, or quadruple double back then. There was no such thing. Those terms were invented many years later. But that game 5 brought on a debate that has raged for 40 years.

One of my friends marked his scorecard to show Chamberlain with 16 blocks, but another friend had it with only 15. They still argue about it.

But even without knowing what a quadruple double was (and maybe Harvey Pollack knows the answer), it was plain to everyone that Chamberlain had demolished Russell in every possible way.

****************************
Playoff lines:
Russell 11 ppg 23 rpg 4 apg
Chamberlain 21 ppg 32 rpg 10 apg

Wilt Chamberlain averaged a triple double against Bill Russell over the entire series, and had (at least according to Sports Illustrated & some basketball maniacs in the bleachers) 2 quadruple doubles.

You talk about stats - show us any performance by anyone else of that magnitude - ever.

You also forgot to compare their FG%'s in that series. Wilt averaged 21.6 ppg on .556 shooting from the field, while Russell was at 10.2 ppg on a .358 FG%. And then in the Finals, Chamberlain averaged 17.5 ppg on .560 shooting from the floor, while Thurmond was at 14.3 ppg on .343 shooting.


And Psileas already mentioned Wilt's performance against Russell in the '64 Finals. Here were their numbers in that series. Russell averaged 11.2 ppg, 25.2 rpg, and shot .386 from the field. Chamberlain averaged 29.2 ppg, 27.6 rpg, and on .517 shooting. BTW, in the '64 WDF's, Chamberlain averaged 38.6 ppg, 23.4 rpg, and shot .559 from the field. Overall in the '64 playoffs, in a post-season NBA that averaged 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting from the floor, Wilt averaged 34.7 ppg, 25.2 rpg, and shot .543 from the field.

[CasterL]

Jordan 91 finals

[arifgokcen]

I have two nominees.

For a losing performance lebron in 2009 against magic

Shaq 2000 finals total domination(never seen anything like it)

Also MJ against suns is very appealing.He averaged over 40ppg.

Not sure

[Psileas]

Nobody knew about triple double, or quadruple double back then. There was no such thing. Those terms were invented many years later. But that game 5 brought on a debate that has raged for 40 years.

One of my friends marked his scorecard to show Chamberlain with 16 blocks, but another friend had it with only 15. They still argue about it.

But even without knowing what a quadruple double was (and maybe Harvey Pollack knows the answer), it was plain to everyone that Chamberlain had demolished Russell in every possible way.

Wow, do you mean the 29/36/13 game? Somewhere else, I had read he had blocked "only" 7 shots.
BTW, I've also read that this game DOES exist in film and that a guy from APBR had seen it and recalled a crazy block on Havlicek, almost with his chest (!?).

[fpliii]

Wow, do you mean the 29/36/13 game? Somewhere else, I had read he had blocked "only" 7 shots.
BTW, I've also read that this game DOES exist in film and that a guy from APBR had seen it and recalled a crazy block on Havlicek, almost with his chest (!?).

:eek:

Do you have a link to the post?

BTW Deuce - I've decided to stick with Wilt 67 EDF as my pick over Erving 76 Finals (ABA); as I've said before, I'm not a Wilt guy by-and-large, but his seasons under Hannum (and to a lesser extent his years with Sharman) were incredible.

[Psileas]

:eek:

Do you have a link to the post?

BTW Deuce - I've decided to stick with Wilt 67 EDF as my pick over Erving 76 Finals (ABA); as I've said before, I'm not a Wilt guy by-and-large, but his seasons under Hannum (and to a lesser extent his years with Sharman) were incredible.

If I could remember the link, it would already be posted (it's been like 5 years since I read it). But it was an APBR guy, probably one of the guys with the most posts, but I won't try to delve deeper and run the risk of misinforming.

[PHILA]

Lets talk about Game 7s.

Game 7 vs the Hawks in 1964 he had 39 pts (10 pts in the 4th quarter, and 8 pts in the final 8 minutes), 12 blocks, and 30 rebounds. He also kept them in the game in the 2nd quarter, scoring 14 of the Warriors 21 pts.



Wilt was 7'1 250+ pounds.
He may have been 250 in college, but not in the NBA from what I know.


Russell was 6'9" and around 200.
200 pounds.. Why would you even post something like this?

[Deuce Bigalow]

30 votes in so far

BTW


Jordan vs. '90 76ers (5 games)
43/7/7/4 stls on 55/39/85 (61.6 TS%)

Jordan vs. '91 Lakers (5 games)
31/11/6.6/2.8 stls on 56/50/85 (61 TS%)
Choose one

Probably Hakeem's 95 WCF against the Spurs. Or maybe Shaq's Finals appearances in 2000 and 2001.
Choose one

Jordan's '91 Finals is as perfect a series as a player can have: 31.2 pts/6/7 reb/11.4 ast/2.8 stl/1.4 blk/56% FG and absurd defensive impact even beyond those numbers. Dude was everywhere this series. Hit 13 straight FG's in game 2. Epic.

Aside from that, Jordan's '90 series vs. Philly is the most dominant I can recall: 43.0 pts/6.6 reb/7.4 ast/4.0 stl/1.2 blk/55% FG. And those defensive numbers don't tell half the story about how good he was defensively this series - dude got his hands on the ball like 6-10 times each game, caused bad/hurried shots, broke up transition opportunities singlehandedly etc. Just a terror.

He has a had a few other series on that level offensively too:

45.0 pts/9.7 reb/6.7 ast/3.0stl/1.0 blk/61% FG vs. Miami in 1992

39.8 pts/5.8 reb/8.2 ast/3.0 stl/52% FG vs. Cleveland in 1989

36.8 pts/8.0 reb/7.0 ast/2.5 stl/1.0 blk/54% FG vs. Milwaukee in 1990


And a few others too (his '92 and '93 Finals, for instance, were not far off from this level offensively).
Is the 91 Finals the series you want to vote for?

No Kobe 2010 Suns series? That was his best WCF ever.

33.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 8.3 apg, .521 fg%.

Also Jazz series 2008

33.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.2 apg, .491 fg%.
Is 10 WCF your vote?

I would say its either 2006 Wade in the finals or 1998 Mj against the Jazz
Pick a series




LeBron's 2012 ECF elimination game 6 at Boston: Statistically not GOAT but if you watched it, given the narrative with the IMMENSE pressure of the "make or break career" game and the media just waiting to set LeBron on fire as soon as he loses, he responded pretty amazingly. I was in awe of what was happening during the course of the game.

MJ and Shaq had better games statistically but neither ever entered a game with that much pressure and performed like how LBJ did.

LeBron James in game six of the WCF was the best performance of any athlete I have ever seen.

06 Wade, a third year player doing what he did is ****ing unheard of.

06 Wade.

Im voting for Shaq in 2000

I'm gonna say Rondo in either series in 2009. Guy was insane.
Specify the series

[Deuce Bigalow]

Game 7 vs the Hawks in 1964 he had 39 pts (10 pts in the 4th quarter, and 8 pts in the final 8 minutes), 12 blocks, and 30 rebounds. He also kept them in the game in the 2nd quarter, scoring 14 of the Warriors 21 pts.



He may have been 250 in college, but not in the NBA from what I know.


200 pounds.. Why would you even post something like this?
250+ means over 250.
Around 200 means around 200, could mean 220 for all I know.

[tontoz]

Easy call for me. Hakeem in '95. He averaged 35/12.5 with 5 assists and 4 blocks, shooting 56% from the field against MVP DRob.

Complete ownage. :bowdown:

[Deuce Bigalow]

:eek:

Do you have a link to the post?

BTW Deuce - I've decided to stick with Wilt 67 EDF as my pick over Erving 76 Finals (ABA); as I've said before, I'm not a Wilt guy by-and-large, but his seasons under Hannum (and to a lesser extent his years with Sharman) were incredible.
It remains the only "old school" pick so far. You're a Russell guy though, yeah? Why not '62 NBA Finals?

[Deuce Bigalow]

So is this over? D-Wade in th 06 Finals is your vote for the greatest playoff series performance of all-time ISH?

[OldSchoolBBall]

Is the 91 Finals the series you want to vote for?


Yes.

[fpliii]

It remains the only "old school" pick so far. You're a Russell guy though, yeah? Why not '62 NBA Finals?

It was a great series for sure, but it's hard to top Wilt's 67 vs Boston. Taking down the 8x defending champions while averaging a triple double (along with an estimated 41 blocks in 5 games) is pretty nuts.

I do prefer Russell in general, but everything went right for Wilt that year.

[Deuce Bigalow]

It was a great series for sure, but it's hard to top Wilt's 67 vs Boston. Taking down the 8x defending champions while averaging a triple double (along with an estimated 41 blocks in 5 games) is pretty nuts.

I do prefer Russell in general, but everything went right for Wilt that year.
I don't think beating the defending champs is all that impressive to be honest. After a team wins it all the hunger, determination, will, ect to win a ring goes down compared to when the team was going for its first title. That is why its rare to see teams repeat, and many times the team has a horrible follow up season, espicially in NFL teams after they win the Super Bowl. But Wilt individually was probably impressive no doubt.

[ThaRegul8r]

You're a Russell guy though, yeah? Why not '62 NBA Finals?

I don't see why someone being a _______________ guy means he has to vote for that player as the answer to any question asking for the best _______________. That would just be nothing more than fanboyism, and would make such questions worthless and nothing more than popularity contests if everyone just votes for their favorite players. How much one likes a player should be irrelevant and have no bearing on how one answers.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I don't see why someone being a _______________ guy means he has to vote for that player as the answer to any question asking for the best _______________. That would just be nothing more than fanboyism, and would make such questions worthless and nothing more than popularity contests if everyone just votes for their favorite players. How much one likes a player should be irrelevant and have no bearing on how one answers.
Yeah and I agree. Its just that Russell's 62 Finals has such greats stats and a 30/40 game 7 to go with it. Certainly regarded as one of the best series ever, no?

[stanlove1111]

And Wilt could only have dreamed of facing that Laker team in a Finals in '62. Chamberlain averaged 51.5 ppg against LA during the regular season that year, which included three games of 60+, one of which was a 78 point, 43 rebound game.

And given the fact that Russell shelled the Lakers in every one of his 60's Finals performances, except one (oh wait, he faced Wilt in that one), one can only wonder what kind of Finals records that Chamberlain would own today had he had the good fortune to have played the Lakers in the Finals in that decade.

How about these performances by Russell against LA?

In '62, he averaged 22.9 ppg, 27.0 rpg, and shot .543 from the field against the Lakers in the Finals. Against Wilt in the previous series? 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, and on a .399 FG%. Oh, BTW, Chamberlain averaged 33.6 ppg, 26.9 rpg, and shot .468 from the floor (in a post-season NBA that shot .411.)

Russell in the '65 Finals against the Lakers. 17.8 ppg, 25.0 rpg, and on, get this, .702 shooting from the field. How about Russell in the previous series against Wilt? 15.6 ppg, 25.3 rpg, and on .447 shooting from the floor. Chamberlain in that series against Russell? 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and on .555 shooting from the floor.

Russell in the '66 Finals against the Lakers. 23.6 ppg, 24.3 rpg, and on .538 shooting from the field. Russell against Wilt in the previous series. 14.0 ppg, 26.2 rpg, and in the two known games, he shot .423 from the field. How about Wilt in that series against Russell? 28.0 ppg, 30.2 rpg, and on .509 shooting from the floor (we do have all five of his games.)



You also forgot to compare their FG%'s in that series. Wilt averaged 21.6 ppg on .556 shooting from the field, while Russell was at 10.2 ppg on a .358 FG%. And then in the Finals, Chamberlain averaged 17.5 ppg on .560 shooting from the floor, while Thurmond was at 14.3 ppg on .343 shooting.


And Psileas already mentioned Wilt's performance against Russell in the '64 Finals. Here were their numbers in that series. Russell averaged 11.2 ppg, 25.2 rpg, and shot .386 from the field. Chamberlain averaged 29.2 ppg, 27.6 rpg, and on .517 shooting. BTW, in the '64 WDF's, Chamberlain averaged 38.6 ppg, 23.4 rpg, and shot .559 from the field. Overall in the '64 playoffs, in a post-season NBA that averaged 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting from the floor, Wilt averaged 34.7 ppg, 25.2 rpg, and shot .543 from the field.
WE all know that Russell was considered the best defender of all time.. Where are the defensive stats for this series? Are there are setting picks at the top of the key for teammate stats? Are there any outlet passing stats here?

Stats only tell part of the story..We know Wilt in scorin and rebounding had better stats then Russell as a player, we also know that players at the time felt Russell was the more valuable player to a team..

[stanlove1111]

It was a great series for sure, but it's hard to top Wilt's 67 vs Boston. Taking down the 8x defending champions while averaging a triple double (along with an estimated 41 blocks in 5 games) is pretty nuts.

I do prefer Russell in general, but everything went right for Wilt that year.


Iagree. Russell was the greater all time player, but the 67 series by Wilt was special..

[Deuce Bigalow]

And Wilt could only have dreamed of facing that Laker team in a Finals in '62. Chamberlain averaged 51.5 ppg against LA during the regular season that year, which included three games of 60....
Wilt doesn't do that in the Playoffs though. His 50.4 ppg season - What did he do in the Playoffs? 35 ppg and was the 4th leading scorer in a Game 7 loss.

[TonyMontana]

1962 Bill Russells numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
11.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 2.7 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

1962 Wilt Chamberlain numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
27.7 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 1.3 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

2000 Shaq numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
31.8 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 4.1 apg in 100 poss. per game & 40 mpg.

Russell is a glorified Ben Wallace. There wasn't one aspect of the game he was significantly better at than Ben Wallace other than "winning" something more dependant on teammates than ones self. Mind as well put robert horry in your top ten all-time. :oldlol:

Shaq is the GOAT bigman.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1962 Bill Russells numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
11.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 2.7 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

1962 Wilt Chamberlain numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
27.7 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 1.3 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

2000 Shaq numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
31.8 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 4.1 apg in 100 poss. per game & 40 mpg.

Russell is a glorified Ben Wallace. There wasn't one aspect of the game he was significantly better at than Ben Wallace other than "winning" something more dependant on teammates than ones self. Mind as well put robert horry in your top ten all-time. :oldlol:

Shaq is the GOAT bigman.
RG or 32Dayz or if youre both whatever, what were the stats per 100 possessions in Russell's 62 NBA Finals, Wilt's 67 EDF, and Shaq's 00 Finals?

[K Xerxes]

I think I've got to go with the Hakeem in the 1995 WCF, partly because I wouldn't know which Jordan performance to pick and Hakeem absolutely schooled the 'MVP' David Robinson. It's one series that just sticks out in my mind.

I believe Hakeem was furious that Robinson won MVP, and proceeded to drop 35-13-5-4 on 56% while Robinson had 24-11-3-2 on 45% in the series. I recall Robinson looked like he was about to break down to tears in the middle of a game. That was art.

[KG215]

Russell is a glorified Ben Wallace. There wasn't one aspect of the game he was significantly better at than Ben Wallace
You're different than other obvious trolls in that I actually find myself agreeing with some of the things you post. But then you go and post something this stupid and I find myself wondering how in the hell I could ever agree with anything you say.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I think I've got to go with the Hakeem in the 1995 WCF, partly because I wouldn't know which Jordan performance to pick and Hakeem absolutely schooled the 'MVP' David Robinson. It's one series that just sticks out in my mind.

I believe Hakeem was furious that Robinson won MVP, and proceeded to drop 35-13-5-4 on 56% while Robinson had 24-11-3-2 on 45% in the series. I recall Robinson looked like he was about to break down to tears in the middle of a game. That was art.
I like how you put parentheses on MVP.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Were stuck on a tie for #1...

[BoutPractice]

I would've probably voted for Shaq, but since it wouldn't matter, I'll break the tie and go with Olajuwon's 95 WCF.

[fpliii]

I would've probably voted for Shaq, but since it wouldn't matter, I'll break the tie and go with Olajuwon's 95 WCF.

I was about to do the same (even as a Wade stan). I think I'm going to stick to post-merger series for this project because the games are readily available to rewatch. I feel confident enough in my Wilt (or Erving) vote, but down the line I think I'll have trouble identifying the top pre-77 series after the top 5-10 (so limiting myself to post-merger makes sense for now). So my vote is for 95 Hakeem as well.

[stanlove1111]

1962 Bill Russells numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
11.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 2.7 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

1962 Wilt Chamberlain numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
27.7 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 1.3 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

2000 Shaq numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
31.8 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 4.1 apg in 100 poss. per game & 40 mpg.

Russell is a glorified Ben Wallace. There wasn't one aspect of the game he was significantly better at than Ben Wallace other than "winning" something more dependant on teammates than ones self. Mind as well put robert horry in your top ten all-time. :oldlol:

Shaq is the GOAT bigman.


Gee what are we missing here? HUh..OH yeah freaking defense..So once again we have some clown not bothering to talk about the defensive end when comparing the greatest defensive player of all time with other players..Good job..

Its amazing how much of this I see on this site. The people who don't really know basketball always want to use simplistic stat lines to try and win arguments.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I would've probably voted for Shaq, but since it wouldn't matter, I'll break the tie and go with Olajuwon's 95 WCF.


I was about to do the same (even as a Wade stan). I think I'm going to stick to post-merger series for this project because the games are readily available to rewatch. I feel confident enough in my Wilt (or Erving) vote, but down the line I think I'll have trouble identifying the top pre-77 series after the top 5-10 (so limiting myself to post-merger makes sense for now). So my vote is for 95 Hakeem as well.
Just stick with your original vote, what you feel is the #1 series performance, not based on what the current results are. Since this idea has not gone as planned (not enough votes), this will be the lone thread that decides the top 10. So what ends up with the most votes will be #1, second most votes will be #2, and on and on. Or I'll make a #2 thread and all the votes will carry over for #2. And for #3 thread all the votes will continue to carry over except for the top vote getter.
For your Shaq vote, what series BoutPractice?

[Psileas]

1962 Bill Russells numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
11.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 2.7 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

1962 Wilt Chamberlain numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
27.7 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 1.3 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

2000 Shaq numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
31.8 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 4.1 apg in 100 poss. per game & 40 mpg.

Russell is a glorified Ben Wallace. There wasn't one aspect of the game he was significantly better at than Ben Wallace other than "winning" something more dependant on teammates than ones self. Mind as well put robert horry in your top ten all-time. :oldlol:

Shaq is the GOAT bigman.

1. I doubt you accounted for the fact that in Russell's/Wilt's era, team rebounds were also included in the boxscore.
2. "Per 100 poss." stats favor players of slower teams/leagues, since slower offenses are more heavily built on big men. Both Wilt's and Russell's actual "per 100" would be higher than what shown if they had to play under modern systems. Especially Wilt's probably.
3. You didn't account for fatigue. Wilt and Russell almost never rested and their adjusted stats would gain a new bump if they did.
4. Defensive stats are unavailable and would favor Russell and Wilt, even adjusted. So do fouls commited. Even so, their defensive impact, especially Russell's, isn't shown 100%.
5. Important: Before comparing these 3 straight, how about posting the "per 100" stats of their most significant teammates and their whole teams as well, so that their impact is better understood? If individual stats from '62 should be adjusted, so should team stats.
6. One season doesn't constitute one career.

[MJ23forever]

1995 WCF - Hakeem Olajuwon

[fpliii]

Just stick with your original vote, what you feel is the #1 series performance, not based on what the current results are. Since this idea has not gone as planned (not enough votes), this will be the lone thread that decides the top 10. So what ends up with the most votes will be #1, second most votes will be #2, and on and on. Or I'll make a #2 thread and all the votes will carry over for #2. And for #3 thread all the votes will continue to carry over except for the top vote getter.
For your Shaq vote, what series BoutPractice?

Okay, I'll stick with it then.

I think it's difficult to get a lot of voters in these threads while games are still going on, maybe you should bump it after the Finals? Up to you of course...

[BoutPractice]

Deuce Bigalow > The 2000 Finals would be my vote. Hard to argue with 38 and 16, or whatever it was.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Okay, I'll stick with it then.

I think it's difficult to get a lot of voters in these threads while games are still going on, maybe you should bump it after the Finals? Up to you of course...
I'll leave this up for a while I guess and maybe it will pick up.

But do you know where I can find rebounding numbers for the 62 NBA Finals and 67 EDF? I tried bball reference but they only have points and webuns doesn't have a box score at all.

[fpliii]

I'll leave this up for a while I guess and maybe it will pick up.

But do you know where I can find rebounding numbers for the 62 NBA Finals and 67 EDF? I tried bball reference but they only have points and webuns doesn't have a box score at all.

Complete box scores for each game are hard to find, but for Russell and Wilt in particular I think we have all the rebounding numbers for those series on our site:

http://nbastats.net/01NBA/07playerlogs/Russell.xls

http://nbastats.net/01NBA/07playerlogs/Chamberlain.xls

[Deuce Bigalow]

Complete box scores for each game are hard to find, but for Russell and Wilt in particular I think we have all the rebounding numbers for those series on our site:

http://nbastats.net/01NBA/07playerlogs/Russell.xls

http://nbastats.net/01NBA/07playerlogs/Chamberlain.xls
Yeah I want to find the rebounding % of each and compare to Shaq.

[Deuce Bigalow]

65 Finals
BOS 316
LAL 291
Russell 125
Total rebounds 607

125/607 = 20.59%

67 Finals
PHI 425
SF 436
Wilt 171
Total rebounds 861

171/861 = 19.86%

00 Finals
LAL 248
IND 247
Shaq 100
Total rebounds 495

100/495 = 20.20%

Shaq :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

65 Finals
BOS 316
LAL 291
Russell 125
Total rebounds 607

125/607 = 20.59%

67 Finals
PHI 425
SF 436
Wilt 171
Total rebounds 861

171/861 = 19.86%

00 Finals
LAL 248
IND 247
Shaq 100
Total rebounds 495

100/495 = 20.20%

Shaq :applause:

'67 ECF's

Game 1
Total Rebounds= 120
Wilt 32
Russell 15

Game 2
Total Rebounds= 139
Wilt 29
Russell 24

Game 3
Total Rebounds= 134
Wilt 41
Russell 29

Game 4
Total Rebounds= 122
Wilt 22
Russell 28

Game 5
Total Rebounds= 128
Wilt 36
Russell 21

Total Rebounds= 643
Russell 117
Wilt 160

Russell 18.19%
Wilt 24.88%

Shaq vs Smits
Wilt vs Russell

Wilt :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

'67 ECF's

Game 1
Total Rebounds= 120
Wilt 32
Russell 15

Game 2
Total Rebounds= 139
Wilt 29
Russell 24

Game 3
Total Rebounds= 134
Wilt 41
Russell 29

Game 4
Total Rebounds= 122
Wilt 22
Russell 28

Game 5
Total Rebounds= 128
Wilt 36
Russell 21

Total Rebounds= 643
Russell 117
Wilt 160

Russell 18.19%
Wilt 24.88%

Shaq vs Smits
Wilt vs Russell

Wilt :applause:
Smits 7'4"
Russell 6'9"

[LAZERUSS]

Smits 7'4"
Russell 6'9"

The 6-7 Ben Wallace easily outrebounded Shaq in the '04 Finals.

BTW, Russell averaged 24.9 rpg in his post-season career.
Smits was at 5.2 rpg.

Furthermore, Russell was 6-10, with a 7-4 wingspan and world-class leaping ability, while Smits was no more than 7-2.

[LAZERUSS]

1962 Bill Russells numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
11.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 2.7 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

1962 Wilt Chamberlain numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
27.7 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 1.3 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

2000 Shaq numbers per 100 possessions and 40 minutes
31.8 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 4.1 apg in 100 poss. per game & 40 mpg.

Russell is a glorified Ben Wallace. There wasn't one aspect of the game he was significantly better at than Ben Wallace other than "winning" something more dependant on teammates than ones self. Mind as well put robert horry in your top ten all-time. :oldlol:

Shaq is the GOAT bigman.

Let's blow this nonsense into the water shall we...


Although this topic involves speculation, the OP is using flawed information. Instead, let's sue actual comparative statistical information.

The starting baseline numbers of relevance should be 118.8 ppg, 108 FGA/game, 37 FTA/game, 61 rpg, and the always overlooked stat of .426 eFG%. Those were the league averages in Wilt's historic '62 season. And, no, his personal team averages should not be used. Wilt took his team, on his back, and drove them to their numbers...in that season. He was generally a "catch-and-shoot" shooter, unlike MJ and Kobe, players who would dribble for several seconds in orer to get their shots.

Also, keep in mind that Wilt's numbers were achieved playing nearly very minute of every game. Why is that important? Because the OP is basing his evaluations on a 40 mpg basis. Think about just how unfair that is to a player who played every minute of every game, in a season in which he also played a ton of back-to-back games, including separate stretches of six, three-in-a-rows; three, four-in-a-rows; and even another separate stretch of, five games in five days.

Does anyone in their right mind believe that a Shaq, in 2000, who played a career high 40 mpg, would have continued to play at the same levels, playing 48 mpg? Would his rebounds per game have gone from 13.6 rpg in 40 mpg, to a projected 16.3 rpg playing 48 mpg? Would he have continued to shoot .574 from the field, playing an exhausting 48 mpg? And doing so in a schedule of 20 or so back-to-back games? Keep in mind that Shaq's playoff numbers, with one days rest, were considerly less than when he had two. Meanwhile, Wilt was playing in an era of playoff series with not only back-to-back games, but with even three-in-a-row.

And given Chamberlain's history of playing 45.8 mpg over his entire career, and then an unfathomable 47.2 mpg over the course of his 160 post-season games, or that his worst season was "only" 42.3 mpg (on a Laker team that went 69-13 and on their games by NBA record margins), or that in his last season, at age 36, he was playing 43.2 mpg...there would have been no era in which he would only b playing 40 mpg. I suspect that a prime Chamberlain would have led the league just like he did nearly ever season...so that would mean at least 42-43- an even 44 mpg (jst take a look at the league leaders year-after-year.) So, even in Shaq's 2000 season, in which he played that career high 40 mpg, Michael Finley was leading the leaue at 42.2 mpg.

So then, the reverse has to also be taken into account...that Wilt's efficiencies wold surely rise only playing a hypothetical 40 mpg. Would Wilt's rebound rate of 25.7 rpg, at 48.5 mpg, have been a straight drop to 21.4 rpg? Or would his rebounding efficiency have risen somewhat to counter the drop? And if so, how much? Same with his FG%. Surely his .506 FG% would have been considerably higher playing less minutes in a season which had the most demandin schedule in NB history.

Let's begin. Since I mentioned Shaq's 2000 season, we'll start there.

Once again here were Shaq's numbers. 40 mpg, 29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, and on .574 shooting. In that '99-00 season, the NBA averaged 97.5 ppg, 43 rpg, and had an eFG% of .478. And, the average team took 82 FGAs per game, and 25 FTAs per game.

In Wilt's '61-62 season, Chamberlain averaged 39.5 FGAs per game, in a league that averaged 108 FGA, and he averaged 17 FTAs per game, in a league that shot 37 FTAs per team on average. He shot .506 from the field (in a league that had an eFG% of .426...more on that later), and shot .613 from the line.

Here we go...reduce Wilt's FGAs down to 99-00 levels (82/108 x 39.5), and he would have averaged an even 30 FGAs per game. Multiply his .506 FG% by that 30 FGA, and he would have averaged 15.2 FGM per game, or 30.4 ppg from the field. Reduce his 17 FTAs down to '99-00 levels, (37/25 x 17) and he would have taken 11.4 FTA per game. Since he shot .613 from the line that season, he woul have made an even 7 FT's per game. 30.4 + 7 = 37.4 ppg.

Multiply that 37.4 ppg by .825 (40/48.5), and he would have averaged 30.9 ppg in 2000, playing 40 mpg.

But wait...we forgot something. Wilt's '62 NBA ony had an eFG% of .426, while Shaq's '00 had an eFG of .478. So what you ask? If we are going to hypothetically reduce Wilt's '62 season numbers down to '00 levels, we also have to raise the FG%'s to equalize the conditions. Why? In the 99-00 season, the average NBA team averaged 97.5 ppg. If we don't equalize the FG%'s, then the average team from '61-62 will only average 32.3 made FGAs per game, or 64.6 ppg on FGAs. Then factor in that they would only average 18 ppg on their 25 FTAs (.727), ...for a total of 84.6 ppg...or over 13 ppg less than the average team in 2000.

How do we equalize it again? Raise the league FG% to an adjusted .478. Suddenly, in '62, the average team would be making 39.2 FGM per game, or 78.4 ppg. Add the 18 ppg that they did from the line, and then the average team in '62 would be scoring 96.4 ppg. By the way, the reason it is not equal has a considerable amount to do with Wilt's FT shooting. Take a look at the NBA's FT% before Wilt arrived. In the 58-59 season, the NBA shot .756 from the line (in 2000 it was .755.) Furthermore, in the season after Wilt retired, '73-74, the NBA shot .771.

What does all of that have to do with Wilt's scoring average in '99-00? Once again, reducing his FGAs down to '00 levels, he would have taken 30 FGAs per game. But, instead of making 15.2 FGs per game (based on his .506 FG%), he would make an adjusted 17.1 FGs per game (.478/.426, x .506) on an adjusted FG% of .568. 17.1 x2 = 34.2 ppg, + 7 ppg from the line, or 41.2 ppg. Reduce 41.2 ppg by playing 40 mpg, instead of 48.5 mpg, and he would have averaged an even 34.0 ppg (on .568 shooting.)

Of course, you could do this much easily. The average NBA team averaged 118.8 ppg in '62, and 97.5 ppg in '00. Divide 97.5 by 118.8, and you get .821. Multiply 50.4 ppg by .821, and you have 41.4 ppg. Multiply 41.4 by .825 and Wilt's scoring average, in 40 mpg, would have been 34.2 ppg.

How about rebounding? In the 61-62 season, the NBA averaged about 61 rpg per team (after adjusting for team rebounds.) In Shaq's '99-00 season, it was at 43 rpg. This is relatively easy. 43/61 = .705. Multiply Wilt's 25.7 rpg times .705, and it omes out atw18.1 rpg. Multiply 18.1 times .825, and it becomes an adjusted 14.9 rpg, which would have led the league(and here again, that is a Wilt only playing 40 mpg.)


You can the above in any of the OP's scenarios. How about MJ's '86-87 season?

88 FGA, 30.5 FTA, 44 rpg, and on an eFG% of .488.

Chamberlain's numbers would then be, 32.2 FGAs, and 14 FTAs per game. His FG% would have risen to .580 (488/426 x 506), or 18.7 FGM per game, or 37.4 ppg. And he woud have made 8.6 FTs per game (14 x .613), or a total of 46 ppg. Multiply 46 x .825, and he woud have averaged 38 ppg...playing the same mpg as MJ (37.1 ppg on 40 mpg.)

And he would have averaged 18.5 rpg playing 48 mpg (25.7 rpg x .721), or 15.3 rpg...playing 40 mpg.

So, to recap, Wilt, in 86-87, would have averaged 38 ppg, on .580 shooting, and 15.3 rpg...all while only playing 40 mpg.

Once again, though, the above numbers don't take into account the extra efficiency "boost" that a Chamberlain, only playing 40 mpg, instead of 48.5 mpg, would have surely received.

Go ahead...use those formulas for any of the OP's listings. Wilt's 61-62 season stands as the greatest scoring season of all-time.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The 6-7 Ben Wallace easily outrebounded Shaq in the '04 Finals.

BTW, Russell averaged 24.9 rpg in his post-season career.
Smits was at 5.2 rpg.

Furthermore, Russell was 6-10, with a 7-4 wingspan and world-class leaping ability, while Smits was no more than 7-2.
RPG in that era is very misleading as the total rebounding % shows a more accurate indicator of true rebounding strengths. For example, the 67 and 00 Finals were both 6 game series, in the 67 Finals a total of 861 rebounds were available, only 495 rebounds were available in 00. Can you get it yet? Bbbbut bbut but how many players have 27 rebound games?

[LAZERUSS]

RPG in that era is very misleading as the total rebounding % shows a more accurate indicator of true rebounding strengths. For example, the 67 and 00 Finals were both 6 game series, in the 67 Finals a total of 861 rebounds were available, only 495 rebounds were available in 00. Can you get it yet? Bbbbut bbut but how many players have 27 rebound games?

Smits had a career post season reb% of 12.1.
Not sure what Russell's was, but I would bet my house it was more than 12.1.

Oh, and how about the 7-0 270 lb Tom Boerwinkle? In 35 career playoff games (and after the '70 season) he had a post-season % of 21.9% Yet, in the seven game 72-73 playoffs and against Wilt...not only did Chamberlain outrebound him, 172-9 in that series, but Boerwinkle's reb% was at 13.5%. Here again, I am not sure what Wilt's came out to, but he averaged 24.6 rpg in that series (and at age 36, and in his LAST season)...so it was probably considerably above 20%.

Of course, you can also measure this...Wilt averaged 22.5 rpg in 17 post-season games in that 72-73 season...in an NBA that averaged 50.6 per team. In this year's post-season, the NBA is averaging 39.3 rpg per team. So, reduce Chamberlain's rebounds down to 2013 post-season levels, and he would be averaging 17.4 rpg! All at age 36, and well past his prime.

[LAZERUSS]

WE all know that Russell was considered the best defender of all time.. Where are the defensive stats for this series? Are there are setting picks at the top of the key for teammate stats? Are there any outlet passing stats here?

Stats only tell part of the story..We know Wilt in scorin and rebounding had better stats then Russell as a player, we also know that players at the time felt Russell was the more valuable player to a team..

Really? Even if I were to agree, it certainly would not have been by some kind of wide margin.

They two played in the NBA together for 10 seasons. And in that span, they each won four MVPs. Furthermore, while Wilt didn't win the MVP award in '64, and even though he probably deserved it, he did finish ahead of Russell. And Russell beating Wilt out for the MVP in '62 was perhaps the most questionable MVP voting ever.

Those that argue that players somehow know more than the media just need to look at how poorly Wilt was treated in his non-MVP seasons. Russell received more votes than Wilt in the '69 season. Why? Chamberlain led LA to a better seasonal record (and West missed 20 games BTW.) He also led the Lakers to a 4-2 seasonal record against Boston. And h2h, he pounded Russell in those six games. In fact, h2h, Chamberlain easily outplayed Reed and Unseld, both of whom were voted ahead of Wilt. And in Reed's case, Wilt's Lakers had a better seasonal record (55-27 to 54-28), and dominated NY h2h, 5-1.

Then there was his '63 season, when he finished seventh, and behind players like Johnny Kerr, whom he outscored h2h by a 43-19 ppg margin (including games in which he outscored him by margins of 61-20 and 70-14.) And rookie Terry Dischinger, playing on a 25-55 team, had more first place votes.

And if Russell won the award over Chamberlain in '62, then how did Wilt not win the award over Kareem in '72?

And even in the years in which Chamberlain won the MVP, the voting was questionable. How did he not win a unanimous MVP in '67? He was clearly blowing the best centers away h2h in the mid-60's, and while he won three MVPs in a row, it was laughable that he was not winning them by near unanimous margins.

Once again, if Russell were indeed considered the more valuable player in their careers, it was not by much. I don't have a problem with those that do, but let's not act like it was by some huge margin.

[LAZERUSS]

RPG in that era is very misleading as the total rebounding % shows a more accurate indicator of true rebounding strengths. For example, the 67 and 00 Finals were both 6 game series, in the 67 Finals a total of 861 rebounds were available, only 495 rebounds were available in 00. Can you get it yet? Bbbbut bbut but how many players have 27 rebound games?

BTW, I count Chamberlain with 190 career games of 30+ rebounds, including 15 of 40+. Even adjusting for the "pace" differentials (and keep in mind that the "pace" of the NBA declined almost every year in Wilt's career after '62)...that means that Wilt would have had some 190 games of 20+ in the current NBA. And once again, he had 15 games of 40+, including one in which he outrebounded Russell by a 55-19 margin. Those games would translate to to between 27-37 rebound games in today's NBA, and certainly several of them would be 30+.

But even aside from the numbers above, perhaps the most impressive point regarding Wilt's rebounding, was the fact that he was seldom outrebounded in any of his 1200 career games (including the post-season.) And we know that he not only was never outrebounded in any of his 29 post-season series, he had many in which he just murdered his opposing centers. And keep in mind that he faced Bellamy in 10 post-season games, Lucas in 18 (roughly 10 as a center), a prime Kareem in 11, Reed in 17, Thurmond in 17, and Russell in 49.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Smits had a career post season reb% of 12.1.
Not sure what Russell's was, but I would bet my house it was more than 12.1.

Oh, and how about the 7-0 270 lb Tom Boerwinkle? In 35 career playoff games (and after the '70 season) he had a post-season % of 21.9% Yet, in the seven game 72-73 playoffs and against Wilt...not only did Chamberlain outrebound him, 172-9 in that series, but Boerwinkle's reb% was at 13.5%. Here again, I am not sure what Wilt's came out to, but he averaged 24.6 rpg in that series (and at age 36, and in his LAST season)...so it was probably considerably above 20%.

Of course, you can also measure this...Wilt averaged 22.5 rpg in 17 post-season games in that 72-73 season...in an NBA that averaged 50.6 per team. In this year's post-season, the NBA is averaging 39.3 rpg per team. So, reduce Chamberlain's rebounds down to 2013 post-season levels, and he would be averaging 17.4 rpg! All at age 36, and well past his prime.
How did you calculate that 50.6 rpg average per team?

[LAZERUSS]

How did you calculate that 50.6 rpg average per team?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1973.html



Actually I was incorrect regarding 2013....it is 39.8 rpg per team in today's NBA.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2013.html

So Wilt would be around 17.5 rpg.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, and as a quick sidenote to the above, Wilt, in his last post-season, not only averaged 22.5 rpg, in his 17 post-season games, but he anchored a defense that only allowed opponents to shoot .419 in those 17 games, which was a considerable margin ahead of the next best team (the Bucks at .440.)

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1973.html



Actually I was incorrect regarding 2013....it is 39.8 rpg per team in today's NBA.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2013.html

So Wilt would be around 17.5 rpg.
It gives us team and opponents stats so you can calculate the games when Wilt played.

Lakers 942
Lakers opponents 864
Total 1806

17 games

1806/17 = 106.23

106.23/2 = 53.12

The average was 53.12 rpg per team of the Lakers and their opponents.

Wilt averaged 22.53 rpg (383/17)

22.53/106.23 = 21.207%

.21207 x (39.8 x 2) = 16.88

16.9 rpg average. But that is playing nearly 10 mpg more than usual (40 mpg is normal in todays era)

Wilt averaged 47.117 mpg. Lets say he's in todays era and averages 40 mpg.

40/47.12 = 84.89%

So he would be playing 15.1% less minutes

.8489 x 16.88 = 14.33 rpg

14.3 rpg is more accurate amount of rebounds Wilt would have averaged.

Lets just say that if Wilt played slightly more minutes and got more energy from resting, that would bump his rpg to 15 rpg. That is great, but again, not some kind of inflated 20+ number.

[LAZERUSS]

It gives us team and opponents stats so you can calculate the games when Wilt played.

Lakers 942
Lakers opponents 864
Total 1806

17 games

1806/17 = 106.23

106.23/2 = 53.12

The average was 53.12 rpg per team of the Lakers and their opponents.

Wilt averaged 22.53 rpg (383/17)

22.53/106.23 = 21.207%

.21207 x (39.8 x 2) = 16.88

16.9 rpg average. But that is playing nearly 10 mpg more than usual (40 mpg is normal in todays era)

Wilt averaged 47.117 mpg. Lets say he's in todays era and averages 40 mpg.

40/47.12 = 84.89%

So he would be playing 15.1% less minutes

.8489 x 16.88 = 14.33 rpg

14.3 rpg is more accurate amount of rebounds Wilt would have averaged.

Lets just say that if Wilt played slightly more minutes and got more energy from resting, that would bump his rpg to 15 rpg. That is great, but again, not some kind of inflated 20+ number.

Gotta love that logic. The Chamberlain-bashers use his mpg against him in any statistical discussion, but then they will also use reb% against him, as well. But, they seldom, if at all, mention that Wilt was playing 47.2 mpg in his post-seasons, while very few great centers even averaged 40 mpg. So, while his overall numbers would decline somewhat if he "only' played 40 mpg, just how more efficient would his reb% and FG%'s have been? You give him a slight bump from 14.3 to 15 rpg.

The reality is, Howard's best rebounding rates came in post-seasons of 36 mpg. Kevin Love's best regular season mark of 15.2 rpg, came in a season in which he played 36 mpg. Hell, Swen Nater averaged 15 rpg, in 36 mpg, in an NBA that averaged 47 rpg in '80. Yet I am supposed to believe that a prime Chamberlain would be getting 15 rpg playing 40 mpg? C'mon, let's use some common sense here.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Gotta love that logic. The Chamberlain-bashers use his mpg against him in any statistical discussion, but then they will also use reb% against him, as well. But, they seldom, if at all, mention that Wilt was playing 47.2 mpg in his post-seasons, while very few great centers even averaged 40 mpg. So, while his overall numbers would decline somewhat if he "only' played 40 mpg, just how more efficient would his reb% and FG%'s have been? You give him a slight bump from 14.3 to 15 rpg.

The reality is, Howard's best rebounding rates came in post-seasons of 36 mpg. Kevin Love's best regular season mark of 15.2 rpg, came in a season in which he played 36 mpg. Hell, Swen Nater averaged 15 rpg, in 36 mpg, in an NBA that averaged 47 rpg in '80. Yet I am supposed to believe that a prime Chamberlain would be getting 15 rpg playing 40 mpg? C'mon, let's use some common sense here.
Yeah. 14-18 rpg throughout his career is a reasonable amount.

[Deuce Bigalow]

^
The 18 rpg is assuming his rebounding % were significantly higher in his peak, which I'm not sure of yet.

[LAZERUSS]

^
The 18 rpg is assuming his rebounding % were significantly higher in his peak, which I'm not sure of yet.

Well, once again, Chamberlain was seldom outrebounded in his entire career, and covering some 1200 games. And in many he just destroyed his opposing centers, including HOFers.

And, again, with players like Nater, Howard, and Love averaging 15+ in 36 mpg (and 6-7 Wallace at 15.4 in 39 mpg), I just don't see anyone would honestly believe that Chamberlain would only be a 15 rpg guy in today's NBA. He was much taller, much longer, much stronger, and more athletic than all of those guys, too.

And furthermore, had his only responsibility been to rebound, like Rodman in the 90's, and I don't see Dennis standing a chance against him, either.

People forget that Wilt was blocking 8+ shots per game over the course of his entire career (and a known 5.42 in his very last season.) Not only that, but he was probably going after another 8+ every game, as well. Why is that important in these rebounding discussions? Because he was losing potential rebounds by being out of position (and by blocking the ball to someone else.)

You could make a case that Wilt (and Russell) probably would have averaged another 2 more rpg had they just concentrated on rebounding, and not shot-blocking.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Well, once again, Chamberlain was seldom outrebounded in his entire career, and covering some 1200 games. And in many he just destroyed his opposing centers, including HOFers.

And, again, with players like Nater, Howard, and Love averaging 15+ in 36 mpg (and 6-7 Wallace at 15.4 in 39 mpg), I just don't see anyone would honestly believe that Chamberlain would only be a 15 rpg guy in today's NBA. He was much taller, much longer, much stronger, and more athletic than all of those guys, too.

And furthermore, had his only responsibility been to rebound, like Rodman in the 90's, and I don't see Dennis standing a chance against him, either.

People forget that Wilt was blocking 8+ shots per game over the course of his entire career (and a known 5.42 in his very last season.) Not only that, but he was probably going after another 8+ every game, as well. Why is that important in these rebounding discussions? Because he was losing potential rebounds by being out of position (and by blocking the ball to someone else.)

You could make a case that Wilt (and Russell) probably would have averaged another 2 more rpg had they just concentrated on rebounding, and not shot-blocking.
Neither of them (Wilt and Russell) would be averaging 20 or more rebounds per game in today's era. You agree on that?

[Psileas]

These are playoff rebounding estimations. Superstars' mpg take a bump in the playoffs, including centers, regardless of era. Take the 90's: Hakeem had 4 postseasons in a row at 42+ mpg and multiple more at 40+, and one of the reasons he wasn't playing even more at times was because he commited lots of fouls. Ewing had also multiple postseasons at 40-41, while also commiting many fouls and not usually being equally fit. Robinson had 3 at 41+, with a 3.8 foul average in his prime seasons (before his '97 injury). Shaq averaged 40+ 6 times and 4 of 6 were long trips (NBA Finals), including 43.5 mpg at his peak in 2000, despite participating in many blowouts - equally interestingly, while he was usually commiting many fouls himself, in 2000 he stayed away from fouling trouble (only 2.9).
Wilt, even for his own era standards, commited few fouls and although his averages might be worse today, due to more small penetrators, I doubt he'd be at the 4+ range. Knowing also that he had great stamina and played a lot, even when not 100% healthy, I assume he'd have multiple postseasons at 42+ mpg, with 39-40 mpg being probably his least productive, mpg-wise, postseasons.

[Psileas]

Wilt and Russell were the GOAT postseason rebounders. They wouldn't need to average 20+ today to qualify as such. At 15-16 rpg, they'd still be at the top. In the last 35 years or so, Howard is at 14.1 rpg (without having hit his past-prime years), Moses Malone at 13.8 and nobody else is above 13.

[K]

He faced much better competition from big men for rebounds. He would get 18 rpg without much trouble.

[ThaRegul8r]

Wilt and Russell were the GOAT postseason rebounders. They wouldn't need to average 20+ today to qualify as such. At 15-16 rpg, they'd still be at the top. In the last 35 years or so, Howard is at 14.1 rpg (without having hit his past-prime years), Moses Malone at 13.8 and nobody else is above 13.

I've posted before that they were GOAT postseason rebounders going by percentage. So I don't see why some people are hung up on the 20 per game averages when they were still the best going by percentage of rebounds grabbed during the time they were on the floor. People are too obsessed with statistics.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I've posted before that they were GOAT postseason rebounders going by percentage. So I don't see why some people are hung up on the 20 per game averages when they were still the best going by percentage of rebounds grabbed during the time they were on the floor. People are too obsessed with statistics.
Link to that thread?

[LAZERUSS]

Neither of them (Wilt and Russell) would be averaging 20 or more rebounds per game in today's era. You agree on that?

If you claim that Chamberlain (and possibly Russell) would be capable of 18 rpg post-seasons in today's game, I think we can come to an agreement.

Here again, no one outrebounded Wilt. And in the vast majority of his games, he was outrebounding his peers by sizeable margins (some by huge margins.) And Chamberain had games in which he doubled, and even tripled Russell's production. So, no matter what the final estimated numbers would be, I don't think there is any question that Wilt would be the best rebounder of all-time.

But, once again, Wilt had 190 games of 30+ rebounds in his career, and in 15 of them, he grabbed 40+ (with a high of 55.) Those equate to a large amount of 20+ rebound games, and possibly several in the 30's...in today's era.

[TheTenth]

Link to that thread?
There is no need for a thread, the math is pretty simple.

[Straight_Ballin]

1997 Finals
Anyone can play healthy. Try dominating while being poisoned.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9183990&city=chicago

/thread

[ChrisKreager]

Hakeem 94 WCF' against Spurs

Wrong year. 94 was against Utah.

[Duncan21formvp]

1997 Finals
Anyone can play healthy. Try dominating while being poisoned.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9183990&city=chicago

/thread
Wasn't better than his 1991-1993 finals.

[72-10]

wow, how'd Barkley's 93 WCF not get a vote?

Also, where's Mike's 90 ECSF vs Philly?

[72-10]

some others remembered

88 WC1rd Hakeem vs Dallas
84 ECSF Bernard King vs Pistons
86 EC1rd Jordan vs Celtics
88 EC1rd Jordan vs Cavs
89 EC1rd Jordan vs Cavs
89 ECSF Jordan vs Knicks
95 Finals Hakeem
00 Finals Shaq
01 Finals Shaq

[pegasus]

LeBron's entire postseason last year.
This:D

[Manny98]

https://i.postimg.cc/YSwypMgv/8bd81a50eb70b4f479f5a77d891c133d.jpg