If Duncan gets that 5th ring....

[CJ Mustard]

Where will he rank?

He'd be the greatest winner of this era.

[DonDadda59]

Where will he rank?

He'd be the greatest winner of this era.

Already is :confusedshrug:

Another ring = icing on the GOAT PF cake. Serious talks about him being top 5 all time begin.

[Kiddlovesnets]

He will probably surpass Shaq in top 10 list, although without his 5th ring hes already better than Kobe.

[HEAT111]

Greater than Kobe :lol

[CJ Mustard]

Already is :confusedshrug:

Another ring = icing on the GOAT PF cake. Serious talks about him being top 5 all time begin.
I know, but some delusion Kobe stans will say he's above Duncan because 5 > 4. They won't even have that argument anymore :lol .

And if he gets another Finals MVP :eek:

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Greater than Kobe :lol

Still ranked above Kobe without the 5th.

[hitmanyr2k]

5-0 Finals record would be very nice :bowdown:

[KG215]

Depends on how he plays. If he has a good series and wins FMVP, I'd bump him up to 7th ahead of Shaq. Although I'd still take peak Shaq over peak Duncan, Duncan winning a 5th ring as the team's best or second best player this late in his career would be too much to ignore.

[fpliii]

I don't do GOAT lists anymore, but it'd be hard to say he's not in the same class as a Magic/Bird/Kareem etc. if he continues to be the driving factor in their wins.

[CJ Mustard]

Amazing that he's 37 and is going to be the best player on an NBA Finals team. How many greats can say that?

[B4llin]

And over such long time periods too, that is really greatness

[Connor B]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Bird
6. Duncan

[SpecialQue]

I know, but some delusion Kobe stans will say he's above Duncan because 5 > 4. They won't even have that argument anymore :lol .

And if he gets another Finals MVP :eek:

And if Parker gets it?

[KG215]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Wilt
5. Bird
6. Duncan
How can you not have Kareem in your top 6?

[CJ Mustard]

And if Parker gets it?
He's still the greatest winner of this era....

[Magic 32]

Amazing that he's 37 and is going to be the best player on an NBA Finals team. How many greats can say that?

I guess if you take 4 years off (09-12) as a top 10 player its possible. :confusedshrug:

Also, you just can't ignore how lucky he has been to play under Pop for his entire career.

[SpecialQue]

He's still the greatest winner of this era....

Huh. So we're going to pretend those playoff exits never happened? OK.

[fpliii]

And if Parker gets it?

If it's a case of exploiting matchups (ie 07) rather than being the most impactful player, won't make a difference. If Parker is dominant though and is the singular reason for their win, it'd obviously make a difference.

[leopoldstotch]

How can you not have Kareem in your top 6?


certainly a tough list to go through when you look at a group between magic, kareem, bird, and wilt. if duncan does get his 5th, who does he surpass? wilt? bird?

[leMVP]

He's already top 10, but getting his 5th with another Fmvp would surely puts him in top 5 discussion with a very strong case.

[SpecialQue]

If it's a case of exploiting matchups (ie 07) rather than being the most impactful player, won't make a difference. If Parker is dominant though and is the singular reason for their win, it'd obviously make a difference.

Duncan's size might be the difference maker. It's be great for him to get that 5th ring. He's a legendary player who's had a fantastic career.

[fpliii]

How can you not have Kareem in your top 6?

No disrespect to Cap, but if Duncan has a dominant finish to this run I might give him that edge.

[WeGetRing2012]

He's still the greatest winner of this era....

How? That doesn't even make sense...

[General]

I'd rank him 7 right below Kobe who I have at 6.

[Kiddlovesnets]

And if Parker gets it?

If Parker gets it, 5 = 5 and 3 > 2, simple math.
:rolleyes:

[SpecialQue]

certainly a tough list to go through when you look at a group between magic, kareem, bird, and wilt. if duncan does get his 5th, who does he surpass? wilt? bird?

Bird.

[CJ Mustard]

How? That doesn't even make sense...
:oldlol: How does 5 rings + 3 Finals MVP's not = Greatest winner of the era? Who has a better resume than that?

:lol I swear Kobe fans don't even understand basic math.

[Kiddlovesnets]

I'd rank him 7 right below Kobe who I have at 6.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[KG215]

certainly a tough list to go through when you look at a group between magic, kareem, bird, and wilt. if duncan does get his 5th, who does he surpass? wilt? bird?
I'm not sure but I don't see how it could be Kareem. Kareem's 3rd on my list behind Jordan and Russell. Not only does he have an extremely high peak, but his longevity is only rivaled by Kobe. Hard for me to imagine any logical argument that could be made for Kareem not being in anyone's top 6.

Probably Bird, though.

[InspiredLebowski]

Forget Duncan, McGrady'd be a world champion!

[jlip]

Well according to the stupid logic on ISH, he better win this ring, because if he loses he will no longer be perfect in the Finals. If Duncan loses in the Finals his legacy will take a hit, because according to many, losing in the Finals is worse than not even making it to the Finals.

[Magic 32]

If he wins the Finals MVP.

1 Jordan
2 Russell
3 Wilt
4 Magic
5 Bird
6 Kareem
7 Duncan
8 Kobe
9 Shaq
10 Hakeem

[Odinn]

No disrespect to Cap, but if Duncan has a dominant finish to this run I might give him that edge.
There is no way Duncan could be ranked ahead of KAJ.
If you do not remember; KAJ was the FMVP in 1985 at his 38 while averaging 26/9/5/2/1 on 60% against Parish&McHale.

Peak, longevity, accolades. Whatever you say a criteria, KAJ has the edge. I guess the only criteria that Duncan being better than KAJ is being a franchise player. But that doesn't mean KAJ was a bad franchise player.

[Magic 32]

There is no way Duncan could be ranked ahead of KAJ.
If you do not remember; KAJ was the FMVP in 1985 at his 38 while averaging 26/9/5/2/1 on 60% against Parish&McHale.

Peak, longevity, accolades. Whatever you say a criteria, KAJ has the edge. I guess the only criteria that Duncan being better than KAJ is being a franchise player. But that doesn't mean KAJ was a bad franchise player.

and he should have won the 1980 FMVP.

[SpecialQue]

:oldlol: How does 5 rings + 3 Finals MVP's not = Greatest winner of the era? Who has a better resume than that?

:lol I swear Kobe fans don't even understand basic math.

How does a five year drought between finals appearances with two first round exits and zero back-to-back titles make him the "greatest winner of our era"? Are you really that stupid that a team only "wins" if they win in the finals, but if they lose repeatedly in the playoffs, it doesn't count?

[GoSpursGo1984]

Depends on how he plays. If he has a good series and wins FMVP, I'd bump him up to 7th ahead of Shaq. Although I'd still take peak Shaq over peak Duncan, Duncan winning a 5th ring as the team's best or second best player this late in his career would be too much to ignore.

I would put him ahead of Shaq already. He never played with a top 15 all time player like Kobe but still lead his team to Championships pus he has had been great for so long.

[Noob Saibot]

It is crazy to see TMac win a ring and not play large minutes to contribute. but Duncan, man if he wins he's going up to Magic and Bird status automatic.

[MavsSuperFan]

I rank Duncan above Kobe right now.

4 rings as the main man > 2 rings as the Main man + 3 rings as a sidekick

[DMV2]

It'd be pretty cool if he gets F-MVP.
He'll have three(four total) Finals MVP in three different decades. 90's, 2000's and 2010's(if it happens).
That's gotta be the first time ever.

[fpliii]

There is no way Duncan could be ranked ahead of KAJ.
If you do not remember; KAJ was the FMVP in 1985 at his 38 while averaging 26/9/5/2/1 on 60% against Parish&McHale.

Peak, longevity, accolades. Whatever you say a criteria, KAJ has the edge. I guess the only criteria that Duncan being better than KAJ is being a franchise player. But that doesn't mean KAJ was a bad franchise player.

Recency bias and overreaction. :D

I tend to underrate KAJ to a massive extent at times, so best not to take my comments on him too seriously. I do think a case could be made to legitimately put them in the same approximate class of player though if TD finishes super strong.

[Magic 32]

I rank Duncan above Kobe right now.

4 rings as the main man > 2 rings as the Main man + 3 rings as a sidekick

So Kobe is just a sidekick, but Parker's FMVP can be ignored (as well as Horry and Manu being decisive factors in 05).

[CJ Mustard]

How does a five year drought between finals appearances with two first round exits and zero back-to-back titles make him the "greatest winner of our era"? Are you really that stupid that a team only "wins" if they win in the finals, but if they lose repeatedly in the playoffs, it doesn't count?
:facepalm Kobe had a 4 year drought. Lebron had a 4 year drought. Shaq's last trip was in '06. Nobody from this era consistently gets to the Finals. Duncan would be tied for the most rings of this era, and already has the most FMVP's (along with Shaq).

Who from this era could say they have a better resume than Duncan if he wins this year? Nobody. Thus, he's the greatest winner of the era. Need me to walk you through anything else?

[Kiddlovesnets]

4 rings as the main man > 2 rings as the Main man + 3 rings as a role player watching Shaq's one man show

Fixed

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I always find it amusing how in comparison to every other Top 10 GOAT on ISH, Tim Duncan never gets flak for having a high quality team around him. Everyone just assumes he's always played with mediocre or shitty teammates.

[Magic 32]

:facepalm Kobe had a 4 year drought. Lebron had a 4 year drought. Shaq's last trip was in '06. Nobody from this era consistently gets to the Finals. Duncan would be tied for the most rings of this era, and already has the most FMVP's (along with Shaq).

Who from this era could say they have a better resume than Duncan if he wins this year? Nobody. Thus, he's the greatest winner of the era. Need me to walk you through anything else?

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/13/00/11/2884200/13/628x471.jpg

[WeGetRing2012]

:facepalm Kobe had a 4 year drought. Lebron had a 4 year drought. Shaq's last trip was in '06. Nobody from this era consistently gets to the Finals. Duncan would be tied for the most rings of this era, and already has the most FMVP's (along with Shaq).

Who from this era could say they have a better resume than Duncan if he wins this year? Nobody. Thus, he's the greatest winner of the era. Need me to walk you through anything else?

But Kobe got to the Finals 3 years in a row twice??

[leopoldstotch]

I do agree Duncan gets the nod over Kobe if he wins a 5th. At the moment, I feel he's a hair below Kobe at the moment. real close.

My top 5 if Duncan does win:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul Jabaar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Tim Duncan

people may rank Kareem over Magic, but I can't disregard Kareem's years with Milwaukee, and carrying them with a past prime Oscar Robertson. the big O could only do so much, so Kareem helped them to 2 finals, winning 1. Could have a good chance at winning the 2nd, but lost to Boston. Unfortunately Robertson shot very poorly (2/13), which turned out to be his final game of his career. :(

[SpecialQue]

I always find it amusing how in comparison to every other Top 10 GOAT on ISH, Tim Duncan never gets flak for having a high quality team around him. Everyone just assumes he's always played with mediocre or shitty teammates.

Tim Duncan and Shaq are the two untouchables on ISH, but I think it mainly has to do with how obnoxious Kobe's fans are here. If they calmed that shit down a bit, I think people would be a bit more objective about Duncan and Shaq and point out the flaws in both of these player's careers.

[SpecialQue]

But Kobe got to the Finals 3 years in a row twice??

Sorry, doesn't count. Losing in the finals according to this idiot is much, MUCH worse than getting knocked out in the playoffs. Oh, and Parker winning FMVP has zero effect on Duncan's legacy, but every one of Kobe's FMVP's are suspect, and his rings with Shaq don't count.

[poido123]

I had Duncan at 9.

With a finals MVP and 5th title, I move him up to 8.

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Bird
6. Magic
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe/James(depending on career titles)

[ProfessorMurder]

Anyone who thinks Duncan isn't ahead of Kobe already is a grade A moron.

[miles berg]

I think it bumps him to the top of the Duncan/Shaq/Hakeem, #7-#9 trio.

1. Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Shaquille
9. Hakeem
10. LeBron

[CJ Mustard]

Anyone who thinks Duncan isn't ahead of Kobe already is a grade A moron.
Exactly. The fact that there are Kobe stans here arguing that he'd be above Duncan AFTER he gets his 5th ring (hypothetically) is just hilarious.

[WeGetRing2012]

Kobe and Duncan are the two greatest players of their era. But I would still give the nod to Kobe because he has rarely not done something worthwhile with a good team. The only time I can really say that the Lakers underperformed was in 2011 when we got swept by Dallas. While Duncan has underperformed with good teams more than once. Last year they should have beaten the inexperienced Thunder after going up 2-0 because their team was good enough to do it. And they lost in the 1st round vs a 8th seed. And I don't really remember the Suns series in 2000 but they lost in the 1st round after winning the championship the year earlier and for has great that he is he has never won back-to-back...

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Tim Duncan and Shaq are the two untouchables on ISH, but I think it mainly has to do with how obnoxious Kobe's fans are here. If they calmed that shit down a bit, I think people would be a bit more objective about Duncan and Shaq and point out the flaws in both of these player's careers.

It's sad that people let their dislike for people totally unrelated to what a player does on the court affect their objectivity when evaluating said player's career. I've never understood that logic: "Player A has obnoxious fans, so I'm going to hate Player A." I think Michael Jordan fans on ISH are the absolute worst, that's not gonna make me think any less of him as a player though.

[The_Yearning]

Kobe and Duncan are the two greatest players of their era. But I would still give the nod to Kobe because he has rarely not done something worthwhile with a good team. The only time I can really say that the Lakers underperformed was in 2011 when we got swept by Dallas. While Duncan has underperformed with good teams more than once. Last year they should have beaten the inexperienced Thunder because their team was good enough to do it. And they lost in the 1st round vs a 8th seed. And I don't really remember the Suns series in 2000 but they lost in the 1st round after winning the championship the year earlier and for has great that he is he has never won back-to-back...

You mean the year that Duncan got injured in the playoffs? That would add more to his legacy... his team with D-Rob got dusted without him to a Phoenix Suns team with Jason Kidd, Rodney Rogers, and Clifford Robinson.

[uoykcuf]

I think it bumps him to the top of the Duncan/Shaq/Hakeem, #7-#9 trio.

1. Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Shaquille
9. Hakeem
10. LeBron

Only change I'd make is switching #2 & #3 :applause:

:cheers:

[Draz]

Without his fifth he's better than Kobe.

[WeGetRing2012]

You mean the year that Duncan got injured in the playoffs? That would add more to his legacy... his team with D-Rob got dusted without him to a Phoenix Suns team with Jason Kidd, Rodney Rogers, and Clifford Robinson.

Yeah I said I didn't remember what happened.

So Kobe's injury only adds to his legacy this year too.

[Balla_Status]

Where will he rank?

He'd be the greatest winner of this era.

Sooooooooo about a Dirk-led team never winning a title

[KG215]

and he should have won the 1980 FMVP.
That's how I think a lot of people feel, although I guess it became a lot more debatable after Magic put up 42-15-7 in game 6 without Kareem to win the series.

But, through the first five games here is what they were averaging...

Kareem: 40.6 MPG, 33.4 PPG, 13.6 RPG, 3.2 APG, 4.6 BPG, 0.6 BPG, 4.2 TOV, 58% TS

Magic: 41.8 MPG, 17.4 PPG, 10.4 RPG, 9.0 APG, 0.2 BPG, 2.6 SPG, 5.0 TOV, 62% TS


Magic had a 14-15-10 triple-double in game 5 but also had 10 turnovers. Kareem had 26 about midway through the 3rd quarter, rolled his ankle and left the game, and came back out and scored 14 more points in the 4th quarter to lead the Lakers to a 5 point win. But Magic going to Philadelphia and doing what he did without Kareem to win the series, on top of the numbers he was already putting up...he certainly had a case for FMVP.

[hitmanyr2k]

Yeah I said I didn't remember what happened.

So Kobe's injury only adds to his legacy this year too.

Not really since Kobe's team sucked just as much with him. Scraping for an 8th seed in the playoffs is supposed to add to your legacy :confusedshrug:

[Magic 32]

I think it bumps him to the top of the Duncan/Shaq/Hakeem, #7-#9 trio.

1. Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Shaquille
9. Hakeem
10. LeBron

Hakeem over Kobe? :roll:

[The-Legend-24]

Yeah I said I didn't remember what happened.

So Kobe's injury only adds to his legacy this year too.
Nah bro, It's Kobe. Being injured boosts other players legacies except for Kobe's.

:roll: :roll:

[ThaRegul8r]

I don't really remember the Suns series in 2000 but they lost in the 1st round after winning the championship the year earlier and for has great that he is he has never won back-to-back...

Which means you don't remember that Duncan never played a second in the 2000 postseason. Not that it matters, since you have a point you're trying to make.

It's odd though, that one would even bring up something in the first place that they don't even remember.

[WeGetRing2012]

Not really since Kobe's team sucked just as much with him. Scraping for an 8th seed in the playoffs is supposed to add to your legacy :confusedshrug:

Yeah because Duncan has never been a 7th seed in the playoffs :rolleyes:

[WeGetRing2012]

Nah bro, It's Kobe. Being injured boosts other players legacies except for Kobe's.

:roll: :roll:

They don't make any sense...

[KG215]

Nah bro, It's Kobe. Being injured boosts other players legacies except for Kobe's.

:roll: :roll:
Are we talking about Kobe's injury this year? In what way would this injury and what the Lakers did in the playoffs boost his legacy? It's not the same team coming off a championship, Finals, or even WCF appearance the year before. It was a team that scrapped and clawed and just to get from being out of the playoffs to barely leaping to the 7-seed but finishing with a 45-37 record....with Kobe playing most of the season; hell, they even won the last few games of the year without Kobe just to get up to 7th in the West.

Then they get even more decimated with injuries in the playoffs, and are starting a backcourt of Darius Morris and Andrew Goudelock by the third game against the Spurs.

[miles berg]

Hakeem over Kobe? :roll:

What's the funny part of that statement?

Any real NBA fan, not Laker groupie, knows that Hakeem was on another level than Kobe.

[rmt]

Kobe and Duncan are the two greatest players of their era. But I would still give the nod to Kobe because he has rarely not done something worthwhile with a good team. The only time I can really say that the Lakers underperformed was in 2011 when we got swept by Dallas. While Duncan has underperformed with good teams more than once. Last year they should have beaten the inexperienced Thunder after going up 2-0 because their team was good enough to do it. And they lost in the 1st round vs a 8th seed. And I don't really remember the Suns series in 2000 but they lost in the 1st round after winning the championship the year earlier and for has great that he is he has never won back-to-back...

Duncan did not play in the 2000 playoffs. He was injured.

TD has won 4 rings as the man. Regardless of Parker currently driving the offense, TD is anchoring the defense - playing elite defense on Howard, Zach, marc , pau (maybe a possible Roy , west duo if they get that far) in addition to his points.

[The-Legend-24]

Duncan did not play in the 2000 playoffs. He was injured.

TD has won 4 rings as the man. Regardless of Parker currently driving the offense, TD is anchoring the defense - playing elite defense on Howard, Zach, marc , pau (maybe a possible Roy , west duo if they get that far) in addition to his points.
But he has 3 FMVP's?

[CJ Mustard]

But he has 3 FMVP's?
So you think Tony Parker was the "man" on the 2007 Spurs?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4044933/trying-not-to-laugh-o.gif

[HardwoodLegend]

I wonder where T-Mac would keep that cheap ass Given Not Earned ring.

[WeGetRing2012]

So you think Tony Parker was the "man" on the 2007 Spurs?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4044933/trying-not-to-laugh-o.gif

That's what the FMVP usually means..

[ThaRegul8r]

No disrespect to Cap, but if Duncan has a dominant finish to this run I might give him that edge.


Recency bias and overreaction. :D

I tend to underrate KAJ to a massive extent at times, so best not to take my comments on him too seriously. I do think a case could be made to legitimately put them in the same approximate class of player though if TD finishes super strong.

Hmm...I don't have an all-time list, but, though Duncan is my favorite player, I don't know if I could get on board with that. Though I disclose that I'm more cautious about favorite players, because most people tend to overrate their favorite players and stan for them. I'd be open to hearing an argument though.

As I think about it, it wouldn't be biased to say that Duncan is a far better rebounder and defender than Kareem was at this point, was a better teammate, better at fostering an environment conducive to winning, and his career wasn't extended by Magic. Hmmm...I guess I'd have to analyze it, and Duncan's career is still going while Kareem's is in the books, and I dislike comparing players when one's career is a finished product and the other's is still ongoing. Still, as I said, I'll entertain an argument so long as it isn't biased in either direction.

[CJ Mustard]

That's what the FMVP usually means..
Cedric Maxwell was the man on the 1981 Celtics ladies and gentlemen!




























































:facepalm

[The-Legend-24]

So you think Tony Parker was the "man" on the 2007 Spurs?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4044933/trying-not-to-laugh-o.gif
Isn't that how it works? :confusedshrug:

Ah shit my bad, that's only for Kobe. :roll:

[Magic 32]

What's the funny part of that statement?

Any real NBA fan, not Laker groupie, knows that Hakeem was on another level than Kobe.

This is that silly peak argument, right?

[CJ Mustard]

Isn't that how it works? :confusedshrug:

Ah shit my bad, that's only for Kobe. :roll:

Because Kobe was the best player on those early 2000's Laker teams and was the one who got them to the Finals, right?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe fans might have the worst arguments I've ever seen.

[KG215]

That's what the FMVP usually means..
:facepalm

[Sarcastic]

Duncan is not better than Shaq, even with a 5th ring or 6th ring.

[fpliii]

Hmm...I don't have an all-time list, but, though Duncan is my favorite player, I don't know if I could get on board with that. Though I disclose that I'm more cautious about favorite players, because most people tend to overrate their favorite players and stan for them. I'd be open to hearing an argument though.

As I think about it, it wouldn't be biased to say that Duncan is a far better rebounder and defender than Kareem was at this point, was a better teammate, better at fostering an environment conducive to winning, and his career wasn't extended by Magic. Hmmm...I guess I'd have to analyze it, and Duncan's career is still going while Kareem's is in the books, and I dislike comparing players when one's career is a finished product and the other's is still ongoing. Still, as I said, I'll entertain an argument so long as it isn't biased in either direction.

I'm certainly jumping the gun here, but the bolded is exactly what I had in mind. It would definitely be welcomed if this particular discussion garners some interest.

I'll have to refrain from engaging in hypotheticals though, there's still a good 3 weeks of basketball remaining.

[rmt]

But he has 3 FMVP's?

The finals against the Cavs were won when LeBron was contained on the perimeter by Bowen and in the paint by Duncan. When he couldn't drive into the paint he either had to pass to a useless team mate or take a contested jump shot which he was terrible at back then, that series was a sure win for the spurs.. Too much firepower from the spurs - they went to the mismatch - to vs a hobbled Eric snow and rookie Daniel Gibson

[ProfessorMurder]

Duncan is not better than Shaq, even with a 5th ring or 6th ring.

Dominance over a long period of time vs. unstoppable for a good chunk of time. It's arguable.

[KG215]

The finals against the Cavs were won when LeBron was contained on the perimeter by Bowen and in the paint by Duncan. When he couldn't drive into the paint he either had to pass to a useless team mate or take a contested jump shot which he was terrible at back then, that series was a sure win for the spurs.. Too much firepower from the spurs - they went to the mismatch - to vs a hobbled Eric snow and rookie Daniel Gibson
And Duncan was their best player in the other three rounds. He averaged 23-11-3-3 on 57% TS compared to 20-3-6-1 on 50% TS for Parker.

Duncan had a monster series in the second round against the 61 win, 7.27 SRS Suns in the second round.

[tpols]

If Duncan plays great, wins FMVP, and beats the Heat... I give him a serious a case for top 5 all time. That would be a great cap.

If Parker continues to be the Spurs best player throughout the playoffs and ends up winning FMVP again Duncan might move up one spot. And Parker gets a gigantic bump in the standings.

If Spurs lose, not much changes.

None of this means anything to Spurs though.. They play as a team not individuals.

[Sarcastic]

Dominance over a long period of time vs. unstoppable for a good chunk of time. It's arguable.


Duncan was never the best player in the NBA. Shaq's dominance > Duncan's longevity.

[ProfessorMurder]

Duncan was never the best player in the NBA. Shaq's dominance > Duncan's longevity.

- Duncan won 2 MVPs during Shaq's prime. Shaq has one.

- They both have 4 championships and 3 FMVPs.

- They both have similar career averages.

- They're 15-15 against each other in the playoffs.

- Duncan is a 14 time all star, 10 all nba 1st team, 3 all nba 2nd team, 1 all nba 3rd team... With 8 all nba defense 1st team, 6 all nba defense 2nd team, and an all rookie 1st team selection.

- Shaq is a 15 time all star, 8 all nba 1st team, 2 all nba 2nd team, 4 all nba 3rd team... With 3 all nba defense 2nd team, and an all rookie 1st team selection.

That's the definition of arguable.

[RichieW]

Duncan was never the best player in the NBA. Shaq's dominance > Duncan's longevity.

A back to back MVP wasn't the best player in the league?

03 Duncan carried a retiring Robinson, rookie Manu and sophmore Parker to a title against Shaq/Kobe.

[RichieW]

If Duncan plays great, wins FMVP, and beats the Heat... I give him a serious a case for top 5 all time. That would be a great cap.

If Parker continues to be the Spurs best player throughout the playoffs and ends up winning FMVP again Duncan might move up one spot. And Parker gets a gigantic bump in the standings.

If Spurs lose, not much changes.

None of this means anything to Spurs though.. They play as a team not individuals.

If Spurs are going to beat the Heat, Duncan will have to be Finals MVP. He should put up 25/15 against such a tiny Heat team.

[Sarcastic]

- Duncan won 2 MVPs during Shaq's prime. Shaq has one.

- They both have 4 championships and 3 FMVPs.

- They both have similar career averages.

- They're 15-15 against each other in the playoffs.

- Duncan is a 14 time all star, 10 all nba 1st team, 3 all nba 2nd team, 1 all nba 3rd team... With 8 all nba defense 1st team, 6 all nba defense 2nd team, and an all rookie 1st team selection.

- Shaq is a 15 time all star, 8 all nba 1st team, 2 all nba 2nd team, 4 all nba 3rd team... With 3 all nba defense 2nd team, and an all rookie 1st team selection.

That's the definition of arguable.


Derrick Rose has an MVP. Was he the best player in the game?

Nash has 2 MVPs. Was he the best player in the game?

Dirk has an MVP. Was he the best player in the game?

[Graviton]

Derrick Rose has an MVP. Was he the best player in the game?

Nash has 2 MVPs. Was he the best player in the game?

Dirk has an MVP. Was he the best player in the game?
You forgot to mention Duncan played and dominated both ends of the floor compared to Shaq's one.

Using your logic, Wilt is better than MJ since he was more dominant in a shorter period of time.

Duncan's longevity, versatility, career accomplishments and consistency>Shaq's dominance over couple years on one end.

[Sarcastic]

You forgot to mention Duncan played and dominated both ends of the floor compared to Shaq's one.

Using your logic, Wilt is better than MJ since he was more dominant in a shorter period of time.

Duncan's longevity, versatility, career accomplishments and consistency>Shaq's dominance over couple years on one end.


Wilt definitely has a claim as the GOAT. You'd be a fool to say otherwise.

[Graviton]

Wilt definitely has a claim as the GOAT. You'd be a fool to say otherwise.
Ok. :oldlol:

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Duncan was never the best player in the NBA.

2003-2007, tell me who was the best player in the league in each of those years.

Before you put words in my mouth, I'm not saying he was in all of them or even some.

[Sarcastic]

Ok. :oldlol:


No player in any other sport had the statistical dominance that Wilt had. Not even Gretzky nor Ruth.

[Sarcastic]

2003-2007, tell me who was the best player in the league in each of those years.

Before you put words in my mouth, I'm not saying he was in all of them or even some.


Kobe and Shaq were both always better than Duncan.

[Magic 32]

2003-2007, tell me who was the best player in the league in each of those years.

Before you put words in my mouth, I'm not saying he was in all of them or even some.

2003= Duncan
2004 = Garnett
2005 = Shaq
2006 = Kobe
2007 = Kobe

[RichieW]

Kobe and Shaq were both always better than Duncan.

:biggums:

[unbreakable]

if duncan gets #5 hes the GOAT period. fukk MJ... that ni66a couldnt win 5 in the modern era.

tim duncan won 5 rings in the most DIFFICULT CONFERENCE OF ALL TIME.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[bdreason]

For me, it does move him ahead of Shaq on my all-time list. I still beleive Shaq had a superior prime, but you cannot discount longevity and success on a GOAT list.


Kareem
MJ
Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Kobe


I could even see an argument for him moving as high as #5 GOAT. Some people will say that him winning a chip this year doesn't mean as much, but let's not act like Duncan is some roleplayer. He's still the heart of the team, playing at an elite level, and was arguably the DPOY. I've been really blown away by his production all season. Reminds me of Kareem, who was also still making All-NBA teams in his late 30's.

[unbreakable]

^lmao bird only has 3 rings WTF would he be above duncan^
and wilt over duncan? dont be childish

[Sarcastic]

if duncan gets #5 hes the GOAT period. fukk MJ... that ni66a couldnt win 5 in the modern era.

tim duncan won 5 rings in the most DIFFICULT CONFERENCE OF ALL TIME.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


So the GOAT never even won a back to back title? Ok. :rolleyes:

[unbreakable]

So the GOAT never even won a back to back title? Ok. :rolleyes:


i like how you dont deny anything i say about MJ .. proves my point :cheers:
nice avatar by the way LMAO

[KokeAyne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trdsKp94Io0

:bowdown:

[Sarcastic]

i like how you dont deny anything i say about MJ .. proves my point :cheers:
nice avatar by the way LMAO


The crap you say about MJ is dumb, and not even worth discussing.

[ripthekik]

Definitely above Kobe, Shaq, and Hakeem.

[Vienceslav]

I just gotta laugh at the guy who doesn't have Kareem in top 5, that's all.:roll:

[booonkers]

That's what the FMVP usually means..:facepalm

[booonkers]

You forgot to mention Duncan played and dominated both ends of the floor compared to Shaq's one.

Using your logic, Wilt is better than MJ since he was more dominant in a shorter period of time.

Duncan's longevity, versatility, career accomplishments and consistency>Shaq's dominance over couple years on one end.
Agreed. :facepalm at people ranking kobe above duncan right now.

[Blue&Orange]

Duncan is playing like a boss, both sides of the court, he definitely seems more focused on defense, but he never passes up a good shot.

He is definitely getting some 20 year old p.ussy. Explains the divorce and explains his juvenile enthusiasm... man are like vampires.

[Element]

Duncan hasn't really played at superstar level this postseason. However, if he keeps up Game 3 kind of play he'll easily be above Kobe/Shaq/Hakeem/Bird/Wilt.

What if he chokes to the tune of 2005 Finals again, though? No one ever gives him shi.t for his downright horrible offensive showing because he won. Yes, I know he drew double and triple teams and was more consistent than Manu, and also played great defense. But people give Kobe s.hit all the time for 2010 despite being clearly the best and most consistent player, while playing great defense, garnering the same defensive attention and scoring efficiently on volume through 6 games.

[Vienceslav]

Agreed. :facepalm at people ranking kobe above duncan right now.
Well if staying on superstar level for a long time is the criteria you are using to rank Dundan over Kobe you will not have a good time trying to argue that.

[Crafty]

If he gets the FMVP it's 5 rings, 4 fmvp in 5 trips to the Finals. 3-5 ?

[Overdrive]

How does a five year drought between finals appearances with two first round exits and zero back-to-back titles make him the "greatest winner of our era"? Are you really that stupid that a team only "wins" if they win in the finals, but if they lose repeatedly in the playoffs, it doesn't count?

I know getting back to back titles is tough, but I don't see that not getting any is a knock on Duncan's career. It would be if he had two titles 7 years apart from each other, but the spurs more or less went to win a title every other year with the exception of 2001.

For me this is just as consistent if not more than winning back to back. This is basically the longevity vs peak argument, but on a teamscale. One team wins all its titles during a short amount of time the other over a prolonged stretch.

Kobe, the other great winner of this era, missed the playoffs, had first round exits and was the #2 guy for the missing link between the Jordan and this era.

If some of you Kobe guys argue that Tony Parkers FMVP takes away from Duncan's accomplishments/career, what are Shaq's FMVPs doing to Kobe's then? You can't have it both ways.

Generally "the GOAT-list" sucks, because you can't really make a list of the 10 best players, because you can't ultimately compare them as players.

[Element]

I know getting back to back titles is tough, but I don't see that not getting any is a knock on Duncan's career. It would be if he had two titles 7 years apart from each other, but the spurs more or less went to win a title every other year with the exception of 2001.

For me this is just as consistent if not more than winning back to back. This is basically the longevity vs peak argument, but on a teamscale. One team wins all its titles during a short amount of time the other over a prolonged stretch.

Kobe, the other great winner of this era, missed the playoffs, had first round exits and was the #2 guy for the missing link between the Jordan and this era.

If some of you Kobe guys argue that Tony Parkers FMVP takes away from Duncan's accomplishments/career, what are Shaq's FMVPs doing to Kobe's then? You can't have it both ways.

Generally "the GOAT-list" sucks, because you can't really make a list of the 10 best players, because you can't ultimately compare them as players.

Well, one thing is odd, though. Why does the fact that Duncan only won in years during which competition was really down compared to others (except for 05) never get any mention? LeBron gets s.hit on for the fact that his EC path is ridiculously easy but Duncan's runs have got to be some of the easiest WC runs of the last decade.

They would've lost to a healthy Lakers team in 03 and were one in-and-out away from G7. In 07 they faced the mighty Cavs and the Suns went down due to bullsh.it suspensions. In 99 they faced what, KG minny, pre-Phil Lakers and the Ewing-less Knicks? Like seriously guys

BTW I still think Timmy is a Top 7 GOAT and only really really slightly below Kobe. They're interchangeable to me.

[tpols]

Well, one thing is odd, though. Why does the fact that Duncan only won in years during which competition was really down compared to others (except for 05) never get any mention? LeBron gets s.hit on for the fact that his EC path is ridiculously easy but Duncan's runs have got to be some of the easiest WC runs of the last decade.

They would've lost to a healthy Lakers team in 03 and were one in-and-out away from G7. In 07 they faced the mighty Cavs and the Suns went down due to bullsh.it suspensions. In 99 they faced what, KG minny, pre-Phil Lakers and the Ewing-less Knicks? Like seriously guys

BTW I still think Timmy is a Top 7 GOAT and only really really slightly below Kobe. They're interchangeable to me.
No one ever mentions any context around what the Spurs or Duncan do..

Tony Parker is putting up 22/7/4 in the playoffs right now and has been their most consistent and best player and he gets no mention.

The Spurs are stacked head to toe with some of the most developed, and talented perimeter talent in the entire league and it gets no mention. When the Spurs bury you its with that perimeter offense and shooting. But you'd never know it looking at the threads on ISH.

[hitmanyr2k]

Well, one thing is odd, though. Why does the fact that Duncan only won in years during which competition was really down compared to others (except for 05) never get any mention? LeBron gets s.hit on for the fact that his EC path is ridiculously easy but Duncan's runs have got to be some of the easiest WC runs of the last decade.

They would've lost to a healthy Lakers team in 03 and were one in-and-out away from G7. In 07 they faced the mighty Cavs and the Suns went down due to bullsh.it suspensions. In 99 they faced what, KG minny, pre-Phil Lakers and the Ewing-less Knicks? Like seriously guys

BTW I still think Timmy is a Top 7 GOAT and only really really slightly below Kobe. They're interchangeable to me.

The same can be said about the Lakers threepeat. They had easy paths as well and the only worthy opponent they truly faced was in the WCF. Their competition in the Finals was a sick joke because the Eastern conference was at its weakest point during the early 00's. When LA finally faced a worthy opponent in the Finals they folded like a cheap lawn chair.

[NumberSix]

If he gets the FMVP it's 5 rings, 4 fmvp in 5 trips to the Finals. 3-5 ?
Ring counting is the epitome of revisionist history. If Duncan at an old age wins another ring, I'm not suddenly altering the history of the majority of his career. I already know what Tim Duncan is. With or without a ring this year, I know what Duncan has been throughout his career.

If he is indeed a top 5 player, its not because of this season. It's what he has been the entire time.

[tpols]

The same can be said about the Lakers threepeat. They had easy paths as well and the only worthy opponent they truly faced was in the WCF. Their competition in the Finals was a sick joke because the Eastern conference was at its weakest point during the early 00's. When LA finally faced a worthy opponent in the Finals they folded like a cheap lawn chair.
The Lakers still faced the best competition to come out of the east in the past decade..

04 pistons
08 celtics
10 celtics

The rest of the competition has been weak besides maybe the 06 heat.. LA faced the best eastern talent available.

[Overdrive]

Well, one thing is odd, though. Why does the fact that Duncan only won in years during which competition was really down compared to others (except for 05) never get any mention? LeBron gets s.hit on for the fact that his EC path is ridiculously easy but Duncan's runs have got to be some of the easiest WC runs of the last decade.

They would've lost to a healthy Lakers team in 03 and were one in-and-out away from G7. In 07 they faced the mighty Cavs and the Suns went down due to bullsh.it suspensions. In 99 they faced what, KG minny, pre-Phil Lakers and the Ewing-less Knicks? Like seriously guys

BTW I still think Timmy is a Top 7 GOAT and only really really slightly below Kobe. They're interchangeable to me.

I'm none of the guys who judge players by the path to the finals they have. Imo if you're going to the finals your team is worthy of it. Even the '07 Cavs.

[hitmanyr2k]

No one ever mentions any context around what the Spurs or Duncan do..

Tony Parker is putting up 22/7/4 in the playoffs right now and has been their most consistent and best player and he gets no mention.

The Spurs are stacked head to toe with some of the most developed, and talented perimeter talent in the entire league and it gets no mention. When the Spurs bury you its with that perimeter offense and shooting. But you'd never know it looking at the threads on ISH.


And who's to credit for that? Tim Duncan has always been the consummate team player. In '03 Parker and Ginobili were nowhere near what they were eventually going to become. I credit their development to Duncan's unselfishness which allowed Ginobili and Parker to grow and shine right along with him. Other stars of the league (in their prime) would worry about their stats declining or their place in history being diminished but Duncan acclimated his game with Parker and Ginobili with no grumbles or controversy whatsoever.

Meanwhile you still have Kobe in his twilight years volume chucking away, pissing off his teammates, and playing crap defense while his team gets no better. His and Duncan's approach to the game is night and day. Duncan is team first all the time. Kobe is legacy first all the time.

[LAZERUSS]

It's a it premature to make any "5th ring" claims just yet, but I must say that Duncan is playing at an elite level right now. His numbers in WCF's, which are very good, don't begin to depict his overall impact. His footprints are all over every aspect of the game right now. The Grizzlies can't score from point-blank range on the offensive end, and they can't figure out how to play Duncan on the defensive end. If they crowd him, he makes a brilliant pass to a wide open cutter, and if they lay off of him, he hits the 15 footer.

This is the best that he has looked in several seasons.

[hitmanyr2k]

The Lakers still faced the best competition to come out of the east in the past decade..

04 pistons
08 celtics
10 celtics

The rest of the competition has been weak besides maybe the 06 heat.. LA faced the best eastern talent available.

The '05 defending champion Pistons murder all those teams above with maybe the exception of the '04 Pistons. The '08 Celtics weren't dominant by any stretch. They were taken to 7 games by MUCH weaker teams during their playoff run.

[COnDEMnED]

No disrespect to Cap, but if Duncan has a dominant finish to this run I might give him that edge.
:biggums:

[tpols]

The '05 defending champion Pistons murder all those teams above with maybe the exception of the '04 Pistons. The '08 Celtics weren't dominant by any stretch. They were taken to 7 games by MUCH weaker teams during their playoff run.
I'm sorry dude that's just not true.. 04 pistons were the original. One of the greatest D's ever.

And make a thread saying 08 celtics weren't dominant. You'll get laughed out of it. They had all time great Defense and a stacked offense with KG, ray ray, and pierce.

[tpols]

And who's to credit for that? Tim Duncan has always been the consummate team player. In '03 Parker and Ginobili were nowhere near what they were eventually going to become. I credit their development to Duncan's unselfishness which allowed Ginobili and Parker to grow and shine right along with him. Other stars of the league (in their prime) would worry about their stats declining or their place in history being diminished but Duncan acclimated his game with Parker and Ginobili with no grumbles or controversy whatsoever.

Meanwhile you still have Kobe in his twilight years volume chucking away, pissing off his teammates, and playing crap defense while his team gets no better. His and Duncan's approach to the game is night and day. Duncan is team first all the time. Kobe is legacy first all the time.
Who do I credit? I credit the entire Spurs organization.

I credit Tony Parker right now for being in contention for best point guard in the league.

I credit popovich for being one of the best coaches of all time the way he develops and integrates throw away talent on his squad.

I credit the best scouting front office in all of basketball and admire the way they pick unselfish team first players(mostly foreign talent) to round out their squads-exact opposite how almost every other front office does it(aka just looking for 'stars'.)

And I also credit Duncan with being one of the best players of all time.. Top 8 GOAT.

I also credit Manu for being a HOF caliber 2 way swing man and the Spurs best crunch time player.

I credit this team for all their parts. You guys just say Duncan.. Even when he hasn't even been their best player in the playoffs.

It's a joke.

[Duderonomy]

Kobe usually out shined Duncan against the Spurs in the playoffs though. You can't compare a big to a small. But if the teams are close give me Kobe over Duncan.

[COnDEMnED]

If he wins the Finals MVP.

1 Jordan
2 Russell
3 Wilt
4 Magic
5 Bird
6 Kareem
7 Duncan
8 Kobe
9 Shaq
10 Hakeem
You have Magic, Bird and Wilt ranked higher than Kareem...? How do people justify having Kareem out of the top 3 MAYBE top 4 all time list? Also... if he doesn't win, that means you have Kobe at 7, Duncan at 8, and Shaq at 9?

[thefatmiral]

taking in account his last few seasons, it pushes him further up the greatest of his era list, best season record, two western conference appearances, and probably another finals appearance.

hate to be unoriginal but , tim GOATcan.

[STATUTORY]

duncan has no argument over kobe for player of the era