Does Tim Duncan show that Skill >>> Athleticism in a Basketball game?

[tgan3]

Seriously it just goes to show at the end of the day skill overrides athleticism. Of course, having athleticism is always a boost but it is not everything, just look at guys like Tyrus Thomas, James White and Deandre Jordan (Freak athletic ability with no skill)

PG) John Stockton
SG) Manu Ginbolili
SF) Larry Bird
PF) Dirk Nowitzki
C) Tim Duncan

Probably decimate every team.

[WayOfWade]

Zachary Randolf is another one of those guys. Another one that comes to mind is Steve Nash.

[DuMa]

Duncan is skilled but he also hit the genetic lottery being 6'11" with freakish wingspan. lets not act like his size isnt a great benefit.

[NustABut]

Seriously it just goes to show at the end of the day skill overrides athleticism. Of course, having athleticism is always a boost but it is not everything, just look at guys like Tyrus Thomas, James White and Deandre Jordan (Freak athletic ability with no skill)

PG) John Stockton
SG) Manu Ginbolili
SF) Larry Bird
PF) Dirk Nowitzki
C) Tim Duncan

Probably decimate every team.

No kidding.

4 HOFers and an arguable case for Ginobili.

:coleman:

[Johnny Jones]

Ginobili was pretty athletic in his prime. Just saying.

[NumberSix]

Being a 7 footer is more rare than athleticism.

[Heavincent]

I didn't need Tim Duncan to show me that.

[secund2nun]

Though you have to either have good size or acceptable athleticism if you rely on skills unless you are historically skilled. Give most of us posters the skills of dirk and we would still never make the NBA because we don't have the height or athleticism.

[livingby3's]

Skill, unlike athleticism, follows you through your career. Athleticism in a way enhances peak, while those mechanics, those fundamentals, which constitute to skill, enhances your longevity and overall game. So yes that's a good list by the OP

[ThaRegul8r]

Being a 7 footer is more rare than athleticism.

If Duncan were 7 foot, this would be relevant.

[AintNoSunshine]

Shaq
Garnett
Lebron
Jordan
Payton

beats you 8 times outta 10

But on the subject, you gotta have athleticism or you gotta have size, combine either or both with skills and you can be special, see young Duncan, Lebron and etc.

[ThaRegul8r]

Shaq
Garnett
Lebron
Jordan
Payton

beats you 8 times outta 10

Too many people need the ball, and Shaq and Garnett are already on record as saying they couldn't have played together in their primes because it wouldn't have worked (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/steve_aschburner/12/07/shaq.garnett/index.html):


Former rivals, Shaq and KG form bond in Boston

Posted Dec 7 2010 11:47AM

The longer they're together, the more natural it seems. The more opportunities Kevin Garnett and Shaquille O'Neal get to click on the court and clown off it, to win four out of every five games for the Boston Celtics and then sit back to watch Glen Davis and Semih Erden mop up those closing minutes, the easier it gets to hold these two competing thoughts at the same time. Or more specifically, to see these two formerly competing giants on the same team.

Now, in the twilight -- both players are working on what most assume are their final contracts, lapsing after 2011-12 -- Garnett and O'Neal have meshed well enough that you start to wonder what it might have been like had they teamed up sooner. Eight or nine years ago, say, when one was 25, the other was 29 and the rest of the NBA would not have stood a chance.

Um, you might wonder about that. I might wonder about that. But the two future Hall of Famers in question haven't wasted a moment pondering such a past.

"It wouldn't have worked at all," said O'Neal.

"It wouldn't have happened," said Garnett.

After running the idea past both of the Boston big men recently, the concept was a non-starter. Worse, it might have been like crossing the streams in "Ghostbusters," triggering all sorts of nastiness and disappointment. A Shaq-Kobe thing, only at eye level.

"We'd either have eight," O'Neal said, meaning championship rings, "or we'd have had problems. In my opinion, I don't think it would work."

The obvious snag would have been payroll. For much of this decade, Garnett and O'Neal ranked near the top of all NBA wage earners, soaking up more than $40 million annually on deals that were "grandfathered" in before the maximum salaries collectively bargained in 1999. In 2003-04, their combined take was $52.7 million, KG from Minnesota, Shaq from the Lakers. There only would have been enough money left to pay D Leaguers to deliver the ball to them.

But the real reasons that the two wouldn't have played nice together have nothing to do with cash.

For O'Neal, the basketball wouldn't have made sense. Two big bodies, two offensive missions, two clashing games. "He was a guy who demanded the ball all the time," Shaq said, "and he needed it in some of the same spots as myself. Now we complement each other."

And I think they would know better than anyone. But people never think of things like this.

[NumberSix]

If Duncan were 7 foot, this would be relevant.
Duncan IS 7 foot, just like Garnett is.

[IGOTGAME]

Tbf, in what world is Duncan not athletic?

[Breezy]

How is this a question? just think of all the athletic freaks that don't get anywhere. And there are plenty of super athletic players that are just middling bench warmers. If you look at all the big time Brand name athletic players they all have skill to back up their athleticism.

Look at Lebron. all his best skills have nothing to do with his athletic ability.

Passing, defense, rim finishing, rebounding > Dunking in traffic.

[Graviton]

How is this a question? just think of all the athletic freaks that don't get anywhere. And there are plenty of super athletic players that are just middling bench warmers. If you look at all the big time Brand name athletic players they all have skill to back up their athleticism.

Look at Lebron. all his best skills have nothing to do with his athletic ability.

Passing, defense, rim finishing, rebounding > Dunking in traffic.

Actually all thos ehave something to do with his athleticism.

Passing - His size, upper body strength and wrist "snap" allow him to make amazing passes no midget point guard can do, he can make full court bullet passes thanks to his sheer strength. He can see over the defense, observe and find the open man even in mid air. All those qualities wouldn't be possible if he was Paul Pierce athletic wise.

Defense - His speed, lateral quickness, strength, agility, coordination, endurance to guard PG, SG, SF and some PF is almost exlusively thanks to his godly athleticism you serious. :oldlol:

Rim finishing - where the **** you think his rim finishing comes from? His vertical combined with that strength just lets him overpower anyone and finish around the rim. It's not like he is making acrobatic layups and floaters without using his athleticism. :roll:

Rebounding - :facepalm Think he would be as good a rebounder without soaring over 7 footers with his wingspan, vertical and quickness? :bowdown:

Basically, everything you listed is available thanks to his athleticism, shoulda mentioned court vision, basketbal IQ, ball handling for his size. :facepalm

[Breezy]

Actually all thos ehave something to do with his athleticism.

Passing - His size, upper body strength and wrist "snap" allow him to make amazing passes no midget point guard can do, he can make full court bullet passes thanks to his sheer strength. He can see over the defense, observe and find the open man even in mid air. All those qualities wouldn't be possible if he was Paul Pierce athletic wise.

Defense - His speed, lateral quickness, strength, agility, coordination, endurance to guard PG, SG, SF and some PF is almost exlusively thanks to his godly athleticism you serious. :oldlol:

Rim finishing - where the **** you think his rim finishing comes from? His vertical combined with that strength just lets him overpower anyone and finish around the rim. It's not like he is making acrobatic layups and floaters without using his athleticism. :roll:

Rebounding - :facepalm Think he would be as good a rebounder without soaring over 7 footers with his wingspan, vertical and quickness? :bowdown:

Basically, everything you listed is available thanks to his athleticism, shoulda mentioned court vision, basketbal IQ, ball handling for his size. :facepalm


As far as passing goes his size is the only physical advantage he has. He can pass longer distances more accurately. Granted some of his highlight passes are of that brand but most of his passes are passes that anyone "could" pull off if they had the skill. It's the same reason magic could make those passes.... So wrong there.

Rim finishing- you have to decide what you call athleticism here because everyone in the league can run and jump the only question is to what degree. So of course getting closer to the rim by jumping is an advantage but then Hibbert would be the best in the league. The soft touch, hitting all the right angles off the backboard, off handed reverse layup... Sorry pal, thats where he's good and it has nothing to due with being more athletic.

Rebounding? Come on, you're smarter than that. Bird, Duncan, randolph, love. all great examples of why rebounding is 90% about position and intuition. I mean holy shit even the athletic rebounding phenoms don't rely on athleticism. (wilt chamberlain excepted) Lebron is no different.

All of those traits clearly require the basic human ability to be mobile but being successful in any given category is clearly about skill. So if you're done wasting everyone's time we can conclude.

[bdreason]

Duncan is a freak athlete. Close to 7 feet and can run the floor in the NBA at the age of 37. I hear he's also an amazing swimmer.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Too many people need the ball, and Shaq and Garnett are already on record as saying they couldn't have played together in their primes because it wouldn't have worked (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/steve_aschburner/12/07/shaq.garnett/index.html):



And I think they would know better than anyone. But people never think of things like this.
KG and Shaq wouldve worked KG can fit anywhere he doesnt demand the ball and he can shoot and space the floor and cover Shaq weakness at pickandroll defense. They would win 8 rings you can actually think for yourself instead of having them do it for you and posting articles all the time:rolleyes:

[ThaRegul8r]

Duncan IS 7 foot, just like Garnett is.

He's 6-11. Last I knew, 6-11 wasn't 7 foot unless they've changed measurement.

[Graviton]

As far as passing goes his size is the only physical advantage he has. He can pass longer distances more accurately. Granted some of his highlight passes are of that brand but most of his passes are passes that anyone "could" pull off if they had the skill. It's the same reason magic could make those passes.... So wrong there.

Rim finishing- you have to decide what you call athleticism here because everyone in the league can run and jump the only question is to what degree. So of course getting closer to the rim by jumping is an advantage but then Hibbert would be the best in the league. The soft touch, hitting all the right angles off the backboard, off handed reverse layup... Sorry pal, thats where he's good and it has nothing to due with being more athletic.

Rebounding? Come on, you're smarter than that. Bird, Duncan, randolph, love. all great examples of why rebounding is 90% about position and intuition. I mean holy shit even the athletic rebounding phenoms don't rely on athleticism. (wilt chamberlain excepted) Lebron is no different.

All of those traits clearly require the basic human ability to be mobile but being successful in any given category is clearly about skill. So if you're done wasting everyone's time we can conclude.

I would define athleticism as...

"Physical prowess consisting variously of coordination, dexterity, vigor, stamina, the quality of being agile and physically strong while also having stamina and coordination."

Skill has its place, but are you honestly saying Lebron is so successful at those things mainly due to skill and not athleticism? He is a freak athlete even among NBA freak athletes, that's the point. He is the strongest, fastest and biggest player at his position, of course he is going to be amazing at rebounding, rim finishing and defense.

I am not saying he has no skills, but you are fooling yourself if you think he dominates mostly because of skill.

[tgan3]

Actually all thos ehave something to do with his athleticism.

Passing - His size, upper body strength and wrist "snap" allow him to make amazing passes no midget point guard can do, he can make full court bullet passes thanks to his sheer strength. He can see over the defense, observe and find the open man even in mid air. All those qualities wouldn't be possible if he was Paul Pierce athletic wise.

Defense - His speed, lateral quickness, strength, agility, coordination, endurance to guard PG, SG, SF and some PF is almost exlusively thanks to his godly athleticism you serious. :oldlol:

Rim finishing - where the **** you think his rim finishing comes from? His vertical combined with that strength just lets him overpower anyone and finish around the rim. It's not like he is making acrobatic layups and floaters without using his athleticism. :roll:

Rebounding - :facepalm Think he would be as good a rebounder without soaring over 7 footers with his wingspan, vertical and quickness? :bowdown:

Basically, everything you listed is available thanks to his athleticism, shoulda mentioned court vision, basketbal IQ, ball handling for his size. :facepalm

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Tim Duncan is NOT ATHLETIC period, in his younger days he was mildly athletic but he was never a great or jaw-dropping athlete.

Of course compared to regular joes like you and I who has office jobs and aren't professional sports player he will be considered the superior athlete but if you compare him to other NBA players he is NOT ATHLETIC, especially now in his later career!

[Meticode]

Being a 7 footer is more rare than athleticism.
Too bad Tim Duncan isn't 7 feet tall.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

How is Tim Duncan unathletic? Just because he doesn't have a crazy vert doesn't mean he's not athletic.

[tgan3]

How is Tim Duncan unathletic? Just because he doesn't have a crazy vert doesn't mean he's not athletic.

:facepalm

You might as well say Nash is athletic!

I know athleticism is not purely vert. Im not saying Duncan is not athletic, his definitely 100x more athletic than a potato couch. But the matter of fact is there is no potato couch in the NBA. The worst athletic player in the NBA is still "more athletic" than the average joe. If you were to compare Duncan's athleticism to all the other NBA players, his will surely rank below average, thus "Not Athletic" in that sense.

[9512]

And I am not so surprised about Duncan still effective at his advanced age of 37.

He plays and moves almost the exact same way he did when at Wake Forest.

[TheBigVeto]

Seriously it just goes to show at the end of the day skill overrides athleticism. Of course, having athleticism is always a boost but it is not everything, just look at guys like Tyrus Thomas, James White and Deandre Jordan (Freak athletic ability with no skill)

PG) John Stockton
SG) Manu Ginbolili
SF) Larry Bird
PF) Dirk Nowitzki
C) Tim Duncan

Probably decimate every team.

Duh of course
GOAT PG
2nd GOAT SG
GOAT SF
2nd GOAT PF
GOAT PF

[Sharmer]

Duncans consistent but not really dominate like Shaq or Barkley.

[BoutPractice]

Duncan is a good, NBA level athlete. As a 7 footer, he has very long arms, is quick and reactive in his movements, and not so thin that he gets pushed around in the post. As a bigman, this is all you need. Things like vertical leap are superfluous if you're long enough.

But I agree that in the NBA, skill is more important than athleticism. There's a certain minimum level of athleticism you need in order to be competitive in the NBA at your position, but once you have it, skill is what makes the difference.

[Odinn]

Let's not act like Duncan isn't physically gifted. The proper skill > athleticism suggestion is Shaq vs. Dampier I guess.

[LAZERUSS]

I don't know why anyone would be surprised by this.

And I would add skill > height, as well.

And I always get a kick out of those that claim certain players were "era specific", too (obviously a slap at the "non-athletic" white players.)

As recently as the 2011 season, we had a 37 year 6-3, white guy leading the league in assists (and in oly 33 mpg); a 6-11 white guy leading in bpg; a 6-8 white guy runing away with the rpg title (and in only 36 mpg); and then a white guy winning the FMVP.

Mix photos of players like Mikan, Pettit, Cousy, and Lucas, in with those above, and you would be hard-pressed to tell the difference.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't know why anyone would be surprised by this.

And I would add skill > height, as well.

And I always get a kick out of those that claim certain players were "era specific", too (obviously a slap at the "non-athletic" white players.)

As recently as the 2011 season, we had a 37 year 6-3, white guy leading the league in assists (and in oly 33 mpg); a 6-11 white guy leading in bpg; a 6-8 white guy runing away with the rpg title (and in only 36 mpg); and then a white guy winning the FMVP.

Mix photos of players like Mikan, Pettit, Cousy, and Lucas, in with those above, and you would be hard-pressed to tell the difference.

I'm actually gonna co-sign w/ Jlauber. :eek: :cheers:

[Rose'sACL]

being so tall really helps. Players like Rose, Westbrook would not be half the players they are without their athleticism.
I am pretty sure both westbrook and Rose would take duncan's height instead of so much athleticism. Even if they were half as athletic as now with duncan's height, they would be happier.
Watch Westbrook and you will notice how much pressure he puts on his body. I am just amazed that he never missed a game before that inury and that injury was caused by another player.

[LAZERUSS]

being so tall really helps. Players like Rose, Westbrook would not be half the players they are without their athleticism.
I am pretty sure both westbrook and Rose would take duncan's height instead of so much athleticism. Even if they were half as athletic as now with duncan's height, they would be happier.
Watch Westbrook and you will notice how much pressure he puts on his body. I am just amazed that he never missed a game before that inury and that injury was caused by another player.

Well, let's be honest here. There are really no "non-athletic" players of note that have played in the NBA. These guys are running up-and-down the floor for some 40 mpg.

As for height...I don't think that is has been proven that it is a major factor."Tiny" Arcibald, all 6-1 of him, led the league in scoring and assists one year (34.0 ppg and 11.4 apg.) The 6-8 Dennis Rodman won seven rebounding titles, and the 6-5 Barkley won one. And the 6-5 Adrian Dantley was one of the greatest "post-up" players of all-time.

[andremiller07]

In the playoffs skill/talent > athletic ability in the regular season not so much just ask the Clippers/Nuggets.

[GilZero]

Inside hoops - where athleticism means speed and vertical only.

[ZHAKIDD532]

In the end skill triumphs. I can thing of tons of absolutely freakish athletes that played in the NBA that never cut it because they had no idea what they were doing. Guys like Sean Williams and Anthony Randolph were unreal, but they didn't know how to play the right way.

When you get a guy that has both, you get superstars like Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron.

[creepingdeath]

Duncan, Bird and Dirk were/are worldclass athletes. I don't think the OP knows what athleticism means.

[bmd]

You don't have to be amazingly athletic if you are a big man.

[ralph_i_el]

you need both :confusedshrug:
plenty of atheltic freaks on the bench or out of the league, and plenty of really skilled guys who never stand out either.

[rmt]

What I'd like to know is how much better he'd have been if he had started basketball at a very young age as most NBA players do instead of age 14 (9th grade). So in a little over 7 years of basketball, he makes all-NBA 1st team - that's hard work.

[IGOTGAME]

What I'd like to know is how much better he'd have been if he had started basketball at a very young age as most NBA players do instead of age 14 (9th grade). So in a little over 7 years of basketball, he makes all-NBA 1st team - that's hard work.

he also didn't have to unlearn all the bad habits that come with poor coaching in the majority of high schools. I'd almost prefer a blank slate 7 footer.

[rmt]

he also didn't have to unlearn all the bad habits that come with poor coaching in the majority of high schools. I'd almost prefer a blank slate 7 footer.

I believe his brother-in-law taught him - don't know how much coaching goes on in basketball in a high school on St. Croix.

[Goldrush25]

Of course skill > athleticism. But if I can have athleticism, I'll take it because skill can be developed.

Sad thing is that skill often isn't developed, or takes a while to develop. Why, because no one stays in college. Tim Duncan was one of the last greats that stayed in school all 4 years. Mature beyond his years, that's why he's lasted. Now anyone that has a flash of talent is off to the league after their freshman years. It's sad.