If Lebron can guard 4s and 5s.................

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Why is david west averaging 19/9 with 50% shooting and roy hibbert 23/12 with 54% shooting:lol :lol :lol :lol and dont give that paul george bs wade is the one thats guarding him mostly when george plays bad.

LeBron James and Paul George
when guarding each other
Eastern Conference finals
James George*
Points 45 29
FG 18-31 10-13
Turnovers 8 1
Points per play 1.07 1.71
* George: 6-for-7, 16 points, zero TO in Game 2

All of his highlight is him blocking guards. Lebron is averaging 4 fouls per game in the series does Lebron fouling more equal better defense for bigs:lol :lol :lol :roll: SMH LEBRON:roll:

[inclinerator]

except he shut down west when he was on him

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

except he shut down west when he was on him
http://www.ridethepine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ku-xlarge1.gif

That isnt shutting down:lol thats knowing a man will beat u so u hope refs bail u out:facepalm

[edrick]

Don't think too hard, Ham. It's not like Lebron was always on him or anything.

[Le Shaqtus]

Where does this come from that he can guard 4's and 5's? He can't.

[plowking]

He absolutely shits on West whenever he is on him.

He can't guard Paul George, but then again, is he supposed to be able to shut down every single player in the league? No. No one can. There is always someone that gives you problems.

[lebeast666]

So you guys want him to average triple double, defend 1-5, and play 45+ mins. Have you guys even played ball? :oldlol:

If he were to focus on defense all game and no offense then I bet he can do it pretty good.

[dbk123]

because he cant guard 3 people at once you dumb ****

[tmacattack33]

West did nothing at all when Lebron was on him.

[ballup]

http://www.ridethepine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ku-xlarge1.gif

It's genius because Lebron already knows that West will mimic flop him. Then, Lebron can use his superior athletics to quickly get up, receive a pass, and score an easy deuce. It's part of his super high BBIQ.

[TheFan]

It's genius because Lebron already knows that West will mimic flop him. Then, Lebron can use his superior athletics to quickly get up, receive a pass, and score an easy deuce. It's part of his super high BBIQ.

by the pic it seems like The Heat were the one playing defense.

[tazb]

Clearly didn't watch the last two games. He shut down West down the stretch in both games and will most likely keep doing it moving forward.

[Graviton]

Clearly didn't watch the last two games. He shut down West down the stretch in both games and will most likely keep doing it moving forward.
Problem is West isn't their issue, it's Hibbert and at times George driving. Lebron should guard Hibbert in the 4th while Bosh takes West, afterall according to Pauk Lebron can guard Centers, didn't you see him covering Pau Gasol? :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

Yes. He can. Which is not an opinion. its a fact. He can and has guarded many. Its not even rare. The Heat started Battier at the 4 often and Lebron is bigger. They play lineups with Lebron on bigmen...all the time.

That they could still produce doesnt mean he cant guard them and the logic in place to suggest it does has never been applied in the history of the game.

Especially here. Posting numbers of people he is often not guarding?

As if...that means he cant guard them or....hes trying and failing?

Its almost as if basketball isnt even being watched to reach these conclusions.

David West....a 2 time all star...who put up 17 a game in 33 minutes for the season...doing 19 a game in 38 minutes...is not noteworthy.

And Hibbert...a guy Lebron is rarely guarding...getting 23 a game on good shooting while getting 7 offensive rebounds a game for a few putbacks does not mean Lebron cant guard him either.

It means Hibbert is a good player...a large one...who has been finishing well in traffic. Mostly...not on Lebron.

Is he supposed to be on them every second? Both of them I guess? With stops on George and Lance....so we can act like hes individually responsible for any points scored by the 4 people he guards even if hes only on each for portions of the game depending on matchups and situation?

Lebron can guard virtually the entire NBA id say aside from maybe Bynum. And he could guard him too. I just wouldnt expect much.

Hes the size of Karl Malone.

He is as capable of guarding a bigman as most bigmen are.

Of course they will still score. Perhaps you didnt notice...but they score on eachother. When Lebron is scored on by a bigman...that means he cant guard bigmen....so....when a bigman scores on another big....does that mean that other big cant guard bigs?

Of course not. It means people score on their defenders. Especially good scorers.

Lebron can guard 4/5s. So could Pippen. And shawn Marion. Barkley guarded 2-5. So did Kevin Mchale. And Cliff Robinson. And rodman.

LJ/Zo still had good games vs the Bulls ,the Suns gave up points to everyone big or not, the Celtics got lit up by guards, forwards, and bigmen now and then, and Rodman had points dropped on him by Malone, Kemp, and much lesser bigmen and Jordan and Bird and much lesser swingmen.

Here is a duo of swingmen dropping 88 points on Scottie Pippens team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI


What...can Scottie not guard small forwards?

Or are we gonna apply a little common sense to that situation?

Lebron being able to guard 95% of the planet doesnt mean hes gonna shut down every star on every possession and no other defender has ever been held to such a standard. Nobody else has such meager point totals held against him.

Talking about 18-20 points by bigmen hes nowhere near or guys who score on him 3 times in two games on the way to 21 points.

In the NBa stars score. They tend to score a bit more in the playoffs...often due to playing more minutes and being expected to carry the team in tough spots. Hibbert for example has played as many 40 minute games vs the Heat this series....as he has for the last 3 years combined. He plays 28 minutes a game. Of course his numbers shoot up when lineups tighten in the playoffs in a big series vs a team that plays small ball with Chris Bosh at the 5. Hes whoring them on the boards and getting whatever he wants.

Lebron is to stop him?

Then he hears about David wests numberS?

Or george?

Not like we couldnt expect that. Hes hearing about the less than spectacular point totals of guys he isnt defending now. Why would it stop?

Lebron is a roamer like many guys who can guard the entire league. Most guys like that are. He might be anywhere...on anyone. Hes not personally responsible for the entire opponents scoring output and 3 stars having a few 20 point nights says little of him.

It says this is the playoffs. Where you feed the key players the ball, play them 45 minutes if you must, and try to win.

Not....stop one guy on a team that has 3-4 options.

This isnt a team you take one guy from and they are helpless. There is nobody you just stick your bruce Bowen/rodman on and stick to the shooters.

Its a team. A good all around team.

Which is why nobody on it is scoring much. Surely not enough to get a great defender called out for allowing it.

At least not...any other great defender...ever.

I really do wish we had ISH 20-30 years ago to look back on. Id love to read a "Lol....I thought Michael Cooper was a good defender?!" topic when Andrew Toney drops 46 off the bench then compare it to topics on Lebron "allowing" 24 points to someone he wasnt even guarding or actually guarding someone who has 18 points nobody will ever have reason to mention again because nothing worth mentioning happened.

You want to hate on a guy getting lit up...be my guest. But find a guy who got lit up first.

Hibbert has been their best scorer and hes making like 3 of his 7-8 field goals a game off putbacks.

If this is worth hating I dont know what you guys would have done watching Mutombo have 50 points dropped on him or Parish give up 50 to Ewing in actual isolation situations.

Perhaps come away thinking they cant guard bigmen.

Because...you know...if someone scores points...that means you cant guard them.

Even if it isnt many points.

And you were guarding 3 other people too.

Thats where we are as fans.

[Vragrant]

Where does this come from that he can guard 4's and 5's? He can't.

Truth, but for some reason its become this meme that has gotten tagged on to the notion that he is the most unique player in NBA history. Over the last couple of seasons, since he's been with the Heat and they don't have a big man, its taken on a life of its own.

I've been hearing this mantra that he "can guard any position on the floor" for the last 2-3 seasons, especially in the media

[TheReal Kendall]

He can't even guard small fowards:facepalm

[Zodiac]

Lebron can defend 5s? Maybe if they are absolutely shit-tacular or a F/C tweener

Trust me if Lebron could guard a real 5 his ass would be on Hibbert

[pegasus]

He's got the size and the strength to guard 4's and some 5's, but he gets away with too much shoving and pushing, then he flops on top of that.

The real issue is, he just cannot stay in front of anyone who is a bit quick and has decent handles. We've seen it time and time again. He is just too flat footed for that and relies too much on help defense to double team his defensive assignment. He is a good team defender, though.

I dislike Wade just as much, but he can still defend elite guards without much help and keep them in check for the most part.

[Zodiac]

He's got the size and the strength to guard 4's and some 5's, but he gets away with too much shoving and pushing, then he flops on top of that.

The real issue is, he just cannot stay in front of anyone who is a bit quick and has decent handles. We've seen it time and time again. He is just too flat footed for that and relies too much on help defense to double team his defensive assignment. He is a good team defender, though.

I dislike Wade just as much, but he can still defend elite guards without much help and keep them in check for the most part.


What? Wade relies on hand checking to guard elite two guards, hell he blatantly fouls to get steals

[Kblaze8855]

Trust me if Lebron could guard a real 5 his ass would be on Hibbert

There are no real 5s left. This isnt 1994 where he might have Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, Zo, Ewing, and so on to deal with.

Hibbert has not had a 30 point game in 15 months.

Play him 40 minutes Hibbert is gonna do about the same thing no matter who on this team is on him. They have a team full of small forwards, bigmen who play in 10 minute spurts, and a jump shooter who stopped rebounding.

That Hibbert could do good but not great scoring shouldnt shock anyone. Nobody was ever blown away by 23ppg. He would score reasonably well if Pippen, marion, or Dennis rodman were on the Heat in place of Lebron and ive seen every one of them guard centers.

And nobody ever came out upset about that fact being pointed out.

What about Lebron makes people annoyed?

Hes guarded Derrick Rose and hes guarded all star centers.

Why wouldnt someone say he can guard 1-5?

We disregarding the fact that....its...already happened?

[LBJMVP]

There are no real 5s left. This isnt 1994 where he might have Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, Zo, Ewing, and so on to deal with.

Hibbert has not had a 30 point game in 15 months.

Play him 40 minutes Hibbert is gonna do about the same thing no matter who is on him. They have a team full of small forwards, bigmen who play in 10 minute spurts, and a jump shooter who stopped rebounding.

That Hibbert could score shouldnt shock anyone. He would score well if Pippen, marion, or Dennis rodman were on the Heat in place of Lebron and ive seen every one of them guard centers.

And nobody ever came out upset about that fact being pointed out.

What about Lebron makes people annoyed?

Hes guarded Derrick Rose and hes guarded all star centers.

Why wouldnt someone say he can guard 1-5?

We disregarding the fact that....its...already happened?

lebron cant guard fives. that is a fact, stop trying.

[Kblaze8855]

"Cant" in that "Already happened" sorta way.

[brandonislegend]

Yes. He can. Which is not an opinion. its a fact. He can and has guarded many. Its not even rare. The Heat started Battier at the 4 often and Lebron is bigger. They play lineups with Lebron on bigmen...all the time.

That they could still produce doesnt mean he cant guard them and the logic in place to suggest it does has never been applied in the history of the game.

Especially here. Posting numbers of people he is often not guarding?

As if...that means he cant guard them or....hes trying and failing?

Its almost as if basketball isnt even being watched to reach these conclusions.

David West....a 2 time all star...who put up 17 a game in 33 minutes for the season...doing 19 a game in 38 minutes...is not noteworthy.

And Hibbert...a guy Lebron is rarely guarding...getting 23 a game on good shooting while getting 7 offensive rebounds a game for a few putbacks does not mean Lebron cant guard him either.

It means Hibbert is a good player...a large one...who has been finishing well in traffic. Mostly...not on Lebron.

Is he supposed to be on them every second? Both of them I guess? With stops on George and Lance....so we can act like hes individually responsible for any points scored by the 4 people he guards even if hes only on each for portions of the game depending on matchups and situation?

Lebron can guard virtually the entire NBA id say aside from maybe Bynum. And he could guard him too. I just wouldnt expect much.

Hes the size of Karl Malone.

He is as capable of guarding a bigman as most bigmen are.

Of course they will still score. Perhaps you didnt notice...but they score on eachother. When Lebron is scored on by a bigman...that means he cant guard bigmen....so....when a bigman scores on another big....does that mean that other big cant guard bigs?

Of course not. It means people score on their defenders. Especially good scorers.

Lebron can guard 4/5s. So could Pippen. And shawn Marion. Barkley guarded 2-5. So did Kevin Mchale. And Cliff Robinson. And rodman.

LJ/Zo still had good games vs the Bulls ,the Suns gave up points to everyone big or not, the Celtics got lit up by guards, forwards, and bigmen now and then, and Rodman had points dropped on him by Malone, Kemp, and much lesser bigmen and Jordan and Bird and much lesser swingmen.

Here is a duo of swingmen dropping 88 points on Scottie Pippens team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI


What...can Scottie not guard small forwards?

Or are we gonna apply a little common sense to that situation?

Lebron being able to guard 95% of the planet doesnt mean hes gonna shut down every star on every possession and no other defender has ever been held to such a standard. Nobody else has such meager point totals held against him.

Talking about 18-20 points by bigmen hes nowhere near or guys who score on him 3 times in two games on the way to 21 points.

In the NBa stars score. They tend to score a bit more in the playoffs...often due to playing more minutes and being expected to carry the team in tough spots. Hibbert for example has played as many 40 minute games vs the Heat this series....as he has for the last 3 years combined. He plays 28 minutes a game. Of course his numbers shoot up when lineups tighten in the playoffs in a big series vs a team that plays small ball with Chris Bosh at the 5. Hes whoring them on the boards and getting whatever he wants.

Lebron is to stop him?

Then he hears about David wests numberS?

Or george?

Not like we couldnt expect that. Hes hearing about the less than spectacular point totals of guys he isnt defending now. Why would it stop?

Lebron is a roamer like many guys who can guard the entire league. Most guys like that are. He might be anywhere...on anyone. Hes not personally responsible for the entire opponents scoring output and 3 stars having a few 20 point nights says little of him.

It says this is the playoffs. Where you feed the key players the ball, play them 45 minutes if you must, and try to win.

Not....stop one guy on a team that has 3-4 options.

This isnt a team you take one guy from and they are helpless. There is nobody you just stick your bruce Bowen/rodman on and stick to the shooters.

Its a team. A good all around team.

Which is why nobody on it is scoring much. Surely not enough to get a great defender called out for allowing it.

At least not...any other great defender...ever.

I really do wish we had ISH 20-30 years ago to look back on. Id love to read a "Lol....I thought Michael Cooper was a good defender?!" topic when Andrew Toney drops 46 off the bench then compare it to topics on Lebron "allowing" 24 points to someone he wasnt even guarding or actually guarding someone who has 18 points nobody will ever have reason to mention again because nothing worth mentioning happened.

You want to hate on a guy getting lit up...be my guest. But find a guy who got lit up first.

Hibbert has been their best scorer and hes making like 3 of his 7-8 field goals a game off putbacks.

If this is worth hating I dont know what you guys would have done watching Mutombo have 50 points dropped on him or Parish give up 50 to Ewing in actual isolation situations.

Perhaps come away thinking they cant guard bigmen.

Because...you know...if someone scores points...that means you cant guard them.

Even if it isnt many points.

And you were guarding 3 other people too.

Thats where we are as fans.

Why do you type like this

and why do you do this

and this

those are my points

do you know you can put sentences together to make a paragraph

that is done by using a period and starting the next word

with a capital letter.

[Kblaze8855]

Unbroken blocks of text annoy me more than scrolling.

[sportjames23]

"Cant" in that "Already happened" sorta way.


Sorry, blaze, but Bron can't. Switching up on a play to man a center doesn't = being able to guard him. I've seen MJ guard the likes of Vlade Divac on switch ups, but that doesn't mean he could guard centers.

Let Bron try to guard Hibbert all game and he'll get worn down. Let him guard a prime Dwight and he'd get owned. Let him guard a prime Shaq and he'd get obliterated.

[clutch18]

He can guard 4's for stretches, he can't guard real 5's

[Droid101]

Sad to say, but Kblaze has become one of those blind fans.

LeBron cannot guard legitimate 4's or 5's, at all.

He can perhaps front them for a possession or two... which means absolutely nothing.

Blaze, protip: Rashard Lewis isn't a regular PF anymore. This isn't who LeBron would be guarding. He cannot do this on a regular basis.

[Mass Debator]

He can guard 4's for stretches, he can't guard real 5's
This. He's not strong enough to guard power forwards and centers all game long or even on most occasions. His strength is almost unmatched at his position; Metta and Marion are strong mofos but slower. However his highly regarded natural strength is an illusion from having a great speed and strength combination. At a standstill position, he won't be able to push or shove big men down low unless he uses unnecessary effort, he's already on the move in transition, or he's sizing them up on the perimeter.

There's no use in having your best player wasting extra exerted energy down on the block against natural power forwards and center. You put Lebron on West for stretches just to throw off West's game or to fill in temporarily for others due to foul trouble or whatnot. Basically, he can guard all positions, but he's not entirely all that effective. Use him in spurts. That's all.

[raprap]

Inb4 LEBRON SHUT DOWNS HIBBERT IN GAME 5. :D

[turnaroundJ]

There are no real 5s left. This isnt 1994 where he might have Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, Zo, Ewing, and so on to deal with.


BS. So only top 20 centers of all time are "real 5s"? There are tons of good and capable 5s today, much more than the latter half of last decade. A lot of them are young, and they play in an era that's not exactly bigman-friendly.

[zizozain]

by the pic it seems like The Heat were the one playing defense.
:lol

''It's part of his super high IQ.''



Sad to say, but Kblaze has become one of those blind fans.
he's been sucking lebron balls for years



-

[Kblaze8855]

Sorry, blaze, but Bron can't. Switching up on a play to man a center doesn't = being able to guard him.


I've seen MJ guard the likes of Vlade Divac on switch ups, but that doesn't mean he could guard centers.


Jordan wasnt an inch shorter but 30 pounds heavier than Amare was at the draft combine. Jordan wasnt the same height but 20 pounds bigger than Joel Anthony.

Lebron is a ball handling bigman. He is at virtually no physical disadvantage that most power forwards wouldnt be at when guarding a bigman.


Let Bron try to guard Hibbert all game and he'll get worn down.

No more than the others guarding him. Miami has nobody you would call a good matchup there.



Let him guard a prime Dwight and he'd get owned.


Dwight has had 10 points guarded by people who he overmatches by a mile. Dwight rarely owns anyone the last few years.



Let him guard a prime Shaq and he'd get obliterated.



Sure he would. Like everyone else.


If Lebron were an unknown player of his size and athletic ability the idea that he CANT guard bigmen would be laughed at. Hes Shawn Kemp minus 2 inches but plus a cinder block.

[tpols]

There are no real 5s left. This isnt 1994 where he might have Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, Zo, Ewing, and so on to deal with.

Hibbert has not had a 30 point game in 15 months.

Play him 40 minutes Hibbert is gonna do about the same thing no matter who on this team is on him. They have a team full of small forwards, bigmen who play in 10 minute spurts, and a jump shooter who stopped rebounding.

That Hibbert could do good but not great scoring shouldnt shock anyone. Nobody was ever blown away by 23ppg. He would score reasonably well if Pippen, marion, or Dennis rodman were on the Heat in place of Lebron and ive seen every one of them guard centers.

And nobody ever came out upset about that fact being pointed out.

What about Lebron makes people annoyed?

Hes guarded Derrick Rose and hes guarded all star centers.

Why wouldnt someone say he can guard 1-5?

We disregarding the fact that....its...already happened?
I dont get what youre rambling about.. you say hibbert is Indys best scorer, but then say hes not a real 5 and his 23ppg doesnt matter.. which is it? Anyone 'can' guard anyone lol.. put me next to Shaq before the inbounds, Im technically guarding him. When he slams me on my head, I was still guarding him. :oldlol:

If he cant shut him down it doesnt matter.. Lebron isnt a great one on one defender period. Like you said hes a roamer and thats where hes most dangerous because if he gets a steal its -2 for the opposition and +2 dunk on the other side. One on one hes nothing to brag about at all.

[Sakkreth]

Why this thread kept going after first Kblaze post ?

[BlazerRed]

Yes. He can. Which is not an opinion. its a fact. He can and has guarded many. Its not even rare. The Heat started Battier at the 4 often and Lebron is bigger. They play lineups with Lebron on bigmen...all the time.

That they could still produce doesnt mean he cant guard them and the logic in place to suggest it does has never been applied in the history of the game.

Especially here. Posting numbers of people he is often not guarding?

As if...that means he cant guard them or....hes trying and failing?

Its almost as if basketball isnt even being watched to reach these conclusions.

David West....a 2 time all star...who put up 17 a game in 33 minutes for the season...doing 19 a game in 38 minutes...is not noteworthy.

And Hibbert...a guy Lebron is rarely guarding...getting 23 a game on good shooting while getting 7 offensive rebounds a game for a few putbacks does not mean Lebron cant guard him either.

It means Hibbert is a good player...a large one...who has been finishing well in traffic. Mostly...not on Lebron.

Is he supposed to be on them every second? Both of them I guess? With stops on George and Lance....so we can act like hes individually responsible for any points scored by the 4 people he guards even if hes only on each for portions of the game depending on matchups and situation?

Lebron can guard virtually the entire NBA id say aside from maybe Bynum. And he could guard him too. I just wouldnt expect much.

Hes the size of Karl Malone.

He is as capable of guarding a bigman as most bigmen are.

Of course they will still score. Perhaps you didnt notice...but they score on eachother. When Lebron is scored on by a bigman...that means he cant guard bigmen....so....when a bigman scores on another big....does that mean that other big cant guard bigs?

Of course not. It means people score on their defenders. Especially good scorers.

Lebron can guard 4/5s. So could Pippen. And shawn Marion. Barkley guarded 2-5. So did Kevin Mchale. And Cliff Robinson. And rodman.

LJ/Zo still had good games vs the Bulls ,the Suns gave up points to everyone big or not, the Celtics got lit up by guards, forwards, and bigmen now and then, and Rodman had points dropped on him by Malone, Kemp, and much lesser bigmen and Jordan and Bird and much lesser swingmen.

Here is a duo of swingmen dropping 88 points on Scottie Pippens team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI


What...can Scottie not guard small forwards?

Or are we gonna apply a little common sense to that situation?

Lebron being able to guard 95% of the planet doesnt mean hes gonna shut down every star on every possession and no other defender has ever been held to such a standard. Nobody else has such meager point totals held against him.

Talking about 18-20 points by bigmen hes nowhere near or guys who score on him 3 times in two games on the way to 21 points.

In the NBa stars score. They tend to score a bit more in the playoffs...often due to playing more minutes and being expected to carry the team in tough spots. Hibbert for example has played as many 40 minute games vs the Heat this series....as he has for the last 3 years combined. He plays 28 minutes a game. Of course his numbers shoot up when lineups tighten in the playoffs in a big series vs a team that plays small ball with Chris Bosh at the 5. Hes whoring them on the boards and getting whatever he wants.

Lebron is to stop him?

Then he hears about David wests numberS?

Or george?

Not like we couldnt expect that. Hes hearing about the less than spectacular point totals of guys he isnt defending now. Why would it stop?

Lebron is a roamer like many guys who can guard the entire league. Most guys like that are. He might be anywhere...on anyone. Hes not personally responsible for the entire opponents scoring output and 3 stars having a few 20 point nights says little of him.

It says this is the playoffs. Where you feed the key players the ball, play them 45 minutes if you must, and try to win.

Not....stop one guy on a team that has 3-4 options.

This isnt a team you take one guy from and they are helpless. There is nobody you just stick your bruce Bowen/rodman on and stick to the shooters.

Its a team. A good all around team.

Which is why nobody on it is scoring much. Surely not enough to get a great defender called out for allowing it.

At least not...any other great defender...ever.

I really do wish we had ISH 20-30 years ago to look back on. Id love to read a "Lol....I thought Michael Cooper was a good defender?!" topic when Andrew Toney drops 46 off the bench then compare it to topics on Lebron "allowing" 24 points to someone he wasnt even guarding or actually guarding someone who has 18 points nobody will ever have reason to mention again because nothing worth mentioning happened.

You want to hate on a guy getting lit up...be my guest. But find a guy who got lit up first.

Hibbert has been their best scorer and hes making like 3 of his 7-8 field goals a game off putbacks.

If this is worth hating I dont know what you guys would have done watching Mutombo have 50 points dropped on him or Parish give up 50 to Ewing in actual isolation situations.

Perhaps come away thinking they cant guard bigmen.

Because...you know...if someone scores points...that means you cant guard them.

Even if it isnt many points.

And you were guarding 3 other people too.

Thats where we are as fans.

Pauk?

[FKAri]

Yes. He can. Which is not an opinion. its a fact. He can and has guarded many. Its not even rare. The Heat started Battier at the 4 often and Lebron is bigger. They play lineups with Lebron on bigmen...all the time.

That they could still produce doesnt mean he cant guard them and the logic in place to suggest it does has never been applied in the history of the game.

Especially here. Posting numbers of people he is often not guarding?

As if...that means he cant guard them or....hes trying and failing?

Its almost as if basketball isnt even being watched to reach these conclusions.

David West....a 2 time all star...who put up 17 a game in 33 minutes for the season...doing 19 a game in 38 minutes...is not noteworthy.

And Hibbert...a guy Lebron is rarely guarding...getting 23 a game on good shooting while getting 7 offensive rebounds a game for a few putbacks does not mean Lebron cant guard him either.

It means Hibbert is a good player...a large one...who has been finishing well in traffic. Mostly...not on Lebron.

Is he supposed to be on them every second? Both of them I guess? With stops on George and Lance....so we can act like hes individually responsible for any points scored by the 4 people he guards even if hes only on each for portions of the game depending on matchups and situation?

Lebron can guard virtually the entire NBA id say aside from maybe Bynum. And he could guard him too. I just wouldnt expect much.

Hes the size of Karl Malone.

He is as capable of guarding a bigman as most bigmen are.

Of course they will still score. Perhaps you didnt notice...but they score on eachother. When Lebron is scored on by a bigman...that means he cant guard bigmen....so....when a bigman scores on another big....does that mean that other big cant guard bigs?

Of course not. It means people score on their defenders. Especially good scorers.

Lebron can guard 4/5s. So could Pippen. And shawn Marion. Barkley guarded 2-5. So did Kevin Mchale. And Cliff Robinson. And rodman.

LJ/Zo still had good games vs the Bulls ,the Suns gave up points to everyone big or not, the Celtics got lit up by guards, forwards, and bigmen now and then, and Rodman had points dropped on him by Malone, Kemp, and much lesser bigmen and Jordan and Bird and much lesser swingmen.

Here is a duo of swingmen dropping 88 points on Scottie Pippens team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI


What...can Scottie not guard small forwards?

Or are we gonna apply a little common sense to that situation?

Lebron being able to guard 95% of the planet doesnt mean hes gonna shut down every star on every possession and no other defender has ever been held to such a standard. Nobody else has such meager point totals held against him.

Talking about 18-20 points by bigmen hes nowhere near or guys who score on him 3 times in two games on the way to 21 points.

In the NBa stars score. They tend to score a bit more in the playoffs...often due to playing more minutes and being expected to carry the team in tough spots. Hibbert for example has played as many 40 minute games vs the Heat this series....as he has for the last 3 years combined. He plays 28 minutes a game. Of course his numbers shoot up when lineups tighten in the playoffs in a big series vs a team that plays small ball with Chris Bosh at the 5. Hes whoring them on the boards and getting whatever he wants.

Lebron is to stop him?

Then he hears about David wests numberS?

Or george?

Not like we couldnt expect that. Hes hearing about the less than spectacular point totals of guys he isnt defending now. Why would it stop?

Lebron is a roamer like many guys who can guard the entire league. Most guys like that are. He might be anywhere...on anyone. Hes not personally responsible for the entire opponents scoring output and 3 stars having a few 20 point nights says little of him.

It says this is the playoffs. Where you feed the key players the ball, play them 45 minutes if you must, and try to win.

Not....stop one guy on a team that has 3-4 options.

This isnt a team you take one guy from and they are helpless. There is nobody you just stick your bruce Bowen/rodman on and stick to the shooters.

Its a team. A good all around team.

Which is why nobody on it is scoring much. Surely not enough to get a great defender called out for allowing it.

At least not...any other great defender...ever.

I really do wish we had ISH 20-30 years ago to look back on. Id love to read a "Lol....I thought Michael Cooper was a good defender?!" topic when Andrew Toney drops 46 off the bench then compare it to topics on Lebron "allowing" 24 points to someone he wasnt even guarding or actually guarding someone who has 18 points nobody will ever have reason to mention again because nothing worth mentioning happened.

You want to hate on a guy getting lit up...be my guest. But find a guy who got lit up first.

Hibbert has been their best scorer and hes making like 3 of his 7-8 field goals a game off putbacks.

If this is worth hating I dont know what you guys would have done watching Mutombo have 50 points dropped on him or Parish give up 50 to Ewing in actual isolation situations.

Perhaps come away thinking they cant guard bigmen.

Because...you know...if someone scores points...that means you cant guard them.

Even if it isnt many points.

And you were guarding 3 other people too.

Thats where we are as fans.

So what you're saying is...





































There are over 350 million people on this planet that Lebron simply can't guard. Only one of which is in the NBA (Bynum) :D

[Kblaze8855]

I wish I could find the old arguments on Diaw after it became clear he was gonna play the 5 when Amare was gonna miss the season but I believe it was on the old ezboard and therefore lost.

Diaw wasnt even fat yet. Dude was 6'7'' or 6'8'' and 225 pounds or so(he was weighed at 215 3 years earlier). People said he cant play the 5. Year later...hes played and guarded 5s 70 games in a row and its....."Oh...I forgot there are only 3 centers who can score anyway".

How you people watch Shawn Marion, Diaw, and 18 minutes of Kurt thomas defend the entire NBA and then conclude that Lebron couldnt is amazing.

Marion guarded 5s...so did Nocioni on the Bulls. Diaw. Joel Anthony. And many many many others smaller and worse in the post than Lebron.

But Lebron....cant. Its not just....not the best use of him.

He cant do it.

220 pound Boris Diaw can guard Yao Ming. Tyrus thomas....a 225 pound jumping jack with no base....guards centers all the time. And has since he was a 215 pound rookie.

Lebron....6'8'' 260-278 depending on the source....cant guard the 80% of bigmen who are no threat to score no matter who guards them.

Think this out people.

All I ask.

Use...your memory. Compare and contrast.

This is fairly simple shit here.

If you didnt know who Lebron was...he walks on the court and takes the other teams 4 or 5....

You dont assume "He cant guard him".

You see a power forward guarding another power forward.

The only reason you dont see Lebron as that...is because he handles the ball and plays outside.

But he is in a power forwards body.

And there is no reason to assume he cant do as well as an average one.

Especially after watching him do it....

This is almost word for word the same argument used to suggest Diaw couldnt. And diaw was smaller and worse than Lebron in every physical way along with not exactly being a monster on the ball or in the post.

Lebron could guard anyone Joel Anthony could. It would be a mismatch vs Bynum, Hibbert, and Demarcus Cousins just like it when Joel is on him.

But we dont say Joel cant guard bigmen.

We say...hes an undersized center.

And Lebron has 20+ pounds on him and a world of athletic ability.

Someone....please...explain to me why Lebron...CANT...defend bigmen...

And Diaw DID...for over a year.

Break that down to me oh logical ISH.

[Thechosen1]

because its the in thing now to slurp lebron

[Kblaze8855]

Oh and since people seem to think this is a Lebron thing....this is me in 2006 on Adam Morrison(I was trying to find when I was explaining to people that diaw could and would defend centers before he did it and I was proven right):



To say Adam cant play 4 at any time is just flat out stupid. Like if he steps on the floor and coach says "You got Madsen" the team will collapse and everyone will watch in awe as Madsen goes for 68. And rebounding isnt needed to be a power forward. Its wanted. just like its wanted for a center. Yet I notice Eddy Curry and his 5 rebounds and total lack of defensive effort still play.

Players who arent good defenders arent scored on at a rate equal to that defensive inability compared to good defenders. Kobe gave Mo Pete and company 81. Doesnt mean he gives Morrison 150.

They play the Nets you put him on Clifford Robinson. Bulls? Ben Wallace or PJ Brown. Cavs? Marshall(who at this point just camps out i nthe corner) or Anderson with some time on Gooden. Magic? Darko. Who isnt a terrible scorer but isnt going off for 40. Put on on Reggie Evans or Jeff Foster and somehow I dont expect Wilts records to be in danger. Theres a long list of players that he could be put on with Emeka and Wallace on the floor and a good scheme. And its made even longer considering the fact that the zone can be used to almost render his man to man talent irrelevant.

Ive seen Diaw play center, Glenn Robinson play 4, Darius Miles play the point(for the cavs), Anthony Mason be a point forward, Jalen Rose(briefly), Chris Mullin, Antawn Jamison, Antawn Walker, and any number of other low on D high on offense mismatch players play the 4 or 5 some of them no better on D or as rebounders.





Week into the season I watched him defend 4s and not be scored on plenty of times because you put on people not expected to score.

I watched Adam Morrison defend power forwards in this league.

Adam ****ing Morrison.

The idea that Lebron cant is nothing but ignoring the leagues history.

You could put Lebron on the other teams 4 every game for the rest of his career and nothing amazing is gonna happen.

You could put him on most 5s without issue. They just dont score anymore. As I said Hibbert has not had 30 in 15 months and people act like hes some monster.

Its a mismatch vs the same people a guy like Anthony, Birdman, or many other 4s have a mismatch against.

But people smaller and worse than Lebron around the basket guard bigmen EVERY day.

People are far too into titles and roles. The game on the floor puts people along the lines of Lebron onto 4s and 5s all the time. Ive been watching it happen too long to pretend otherwise. Ive watched Detlef Schremph defend Karl Malone.

But im gonna say Lebron cant guard these bums out here....

[tmacattack33]

Haters mad because Lebron is doing a great job guarding one of the best offensive PF's in the league :oldlol:, the 6'10 250 lb David West.

Sorry guys...your God Michael Jordan could not do that. Lebron can. Deal with it :pimp:

[eriX]

someone lock this thread already kblaze already destroyed all the arguments so far :roll:

[tpols]

someone lock this thread already kblaze already destroyed all the arguments so far :roll:
Hes basically said since Lebron is big, he can guard big men.. and since hes fast he can guard guards.:oldlol:

Just took 10000 words to say something very simple.

No shit.. Lebrons defense hasnt been a problem at all in this series. But for a DPOY runner up.. having Paul George shoot 55+% on you in iso situations? Getting blown by and allowing a 6'10 dude with shaky handles to control the ball effortlessly all game? It just shows Lebron's one on one D is overrated.

Lebron doesnt have active, quick hands or feet in one on one situations.

He doesnt have incredible lateral reflexes.

He doesnt crowd you or lock you up in any way shape or form.

Lebron sits back and plays man defense very safe.. doesnt try to foul. Tries to go for only clean blocks and strips.. isnt physical with it. Flops like a fish out of water when any contact is actually made.

His iso D and the garbage argument that he can guard every position WELL, thats the key term, is just that.. its garbage.

Can Lebron guard all positions? Yes. At the third place DPOY he was voted at? Fvck no. Not close.

[Kblaze8855]

Hes basically said since Lebron is big, he can guard big men.. and since hes fast he can guard guards.:oldlol:

Just took 10000 words to say something very simple.


And yet...people dont seem aware of it.



No shit.. Lebrons defense hasnt been a problem at all in this series. But for a DPOY runner up.. having Paul George shoot 55+% on you in iso situations? Getting blown by and allowing a 6'10 dude with shaky handles to control the ball effortlessly all game? It just shows Lebron's one on one D is overrated.





Lebron doesnt have active, quick hands or feet in one on one situations.

He doesnt have incredible lateral reflexes.

He doesnt crowd you or lock you up in any way shape or form.

Lebron sits back and plays man defense very safe.. doesnt try to foul. Tries to go for only clean blocks and strips.. isnt physical with it. Flops like a fish out of water when any contact is actually made.


So....only people being locked up are being guarded? Let me be sure I understand that.

If someone blows by you...or...scores somehow...it means you cant guard them?

Or...does it mean you are playing basketball where....that happens?




His iso D and the garbage argument that he can guard every position WELL, thats the key term, is just that.. its garbage.

Can Lebron guard all positions? Yes. At the third place DPOY he was voted at? Fvck no. Not close.


Marcus Camby WON the dpoy. Chris Dudley blows him away as a man to man defender. He was never special at it.

Doesnt mean he cant guard his opponent.

It means that the extreme vast majority of defense isnt 3 seconds of being attacked in isolation.

When I say Lebron can guard everyone...I mean NBA defense.

Defense is not 120 man to man drills. Its traps....going over/under screens...its switching...its ball denial...its fronting your man in the post....its getting back....its defensive rebounding.


Lebron....like far more people than are given credit for it....can do most of that and unlike most of them....he can do it while being a power forwards size. Which is why hes a bit better at the physical side of it inside especially for ball denial.

Which is why hes on bigmen....all the time.

When someone asks me if something can be done...the fact that ive seen it done....factors in.

You ask me if Derrick Rose can guard Roy Hibbert....im gonna have to assume he cant. Or at least...if he tried...its an emergency.

You ask if Lebron can....

Ive see him do it.

It didnt look especially odd. Nothing of note happened.

How is my conclusion not to be "Yes"?

Same logic I applied to Diaw before he did it an entire season. Same Logic I applied to Morrison before he found himself on many of the stretch 4s I said he would.

This isnt a fantasy world where guarding a bigman is a post scoring drill. Lebron isnt guarding anyone entire games. Hes one of several people on his team who guards 3 positions. Team hes playing has 3 if not 5 threats in the halfcourt. Of what use is being versatile if you only do one thing?

The Heat are kinda like the Woodson Hawks. A gang of big small forwards and a 4 playing the 5. So many people around the same size...good mobility. You can...if you must...switch everything.

Lebron goes 1-5 if he must. Battier can too. Bosh 3-5. Wade 1-3. Haslem 3-5 if he has to.

This isnt Lebron specific.

This is a big small forward. Big small forwards have been guarding the entire other team since Satch Sanders on the Celtics with Russell.

But when its Lebron its a big debate?

Lebron can and has.

Pippen could and did.

Marion could and did.

Diaw could and did.

Nocioni went 2-5 on defense ALL the time.

Whats the problem?

Lebron almost winning DPOY means if the other guy isnt shut down hes incapable of guarding him?

Do you actually believe Scottie Pippen shut down all the guys he guarded?

Or even most of them?

There are the Bowens/Lindsey Hunters/Rodmans/Indy Artests

And there are the Lebrons/Pippens/Marions.

There are a few hybrids like Jordan who do a bit of both.

None of them need to toally stop anyone to prove capable of guarding them. And only the Bowen group is even there to really try.

Lebron isnt a "Stick to this guy and do nothing else" defender.

He shouldnt try to be.

Almost all those guys are role players who wear themselves out on D and cant do much else.

Almost winning DPOY doesnt make him Bruce Bowen. And it doesnt mean he should attempt to be.

He should do his job.

Which is exactly what he does.

And it is effective. He doesnt need to guard David West the entire game to do that.

He is a very effective defender doing what he does. He shouldnt stop because people on the internet think defense is your opposing positions shooting percentage no matter how they come by it.

[taucesays]

He can prevent guys like Perkins and Chandler from getting open dunks. Tim Duncan or either Gasol would eat him alive.

[sportjames23]

Haters mad because Lebron is doing a great job guarding one of the best offensive PF's in the league :oldlol:, the 6'10 250 lb David West.

Sorry guys...your God Michael Jordan could not do that. Lebron can. Deal with it :pimp:


My God Michael Jordan also couldn't lose in the Finals. Lebron could doe! :pimp:

[Mr Exlax]

I think he can defend all 5 positions. The reason why they haven't put him soley on West and Hibbert all game is because it would tire him out too much to come back and run the offense on the other end.

[Pointguard]

Sorry, blaze, but Bron can't. Switching up on a play to man a center doesn't = being able to guard him. I've seen MJ guard the likes of Vlade Divac on switch ups, but that doesn't mean he could guard centers.

Let Bron try to guard Hibbert all game and he'll get worn down. Let him guard a prime Dwight and he'd get owned. Let him guard a prime Shaq and he'd get obliterated.
To paraphrase what Blaze is saying is that when Hakeem was hot, neither Robinson or Shaq or Zo or Ewing could stop him. Are we going to say NOT ONE of the could guard centers? All of them have averaged more than Hibbertis going to average, on one another.

There are currently what 55 centers in the league. If Lebron can guard 50 of them he can guard centers. Chandler is the best man on defender at center and he couldn't guard Hibbert. There is always an exception at every position, anyway.

So who are the 5 centers that Lebron can't hold in today's game? Russell had his head handed to him by Wilt, Rodman got eaten up by Worthy and Dominique. Pippen abused by Mashburn... Hibbert is as hot as he's ever been in his life. If Lebron was hot nobody would notice Hibbert or any other center in the league if they were playing in the same game. If Lebron played center on a team that played like Phoenix Suns of 7 years ago (in Amare's role), every center in the game today would be thoroughly trashed by Lebron.

[LBJMVP]

"Cant" in that "Already happened" sorta way.


he guarded gasol for a couple plays and now he cant guard 5s?

:lol

[LBJMVP]

I think he can defend all 5 positions. The reason why they haven't put him soley on West and Hibbert all game is because it would tire him out too much to come back and run the offense on the other end.


he can probly guard west for a while, but lebron cannot guard hibbert.

[Pointguard]

I think he can defend all 5 positions. The reason why they haven't put him soley on West and Hibbert all game is because it would tire him out too much to come back and run the offense on the other end.
True, its a different set of muscle groups than he usually uses, and it would tire him, some. But in the fourth he does guard West.

[clutchinho]

Lebron can't guard centres, period


Just because half the centres in the league have no offensive games doesn't mean Lebron can guard them. If Lebron's defending Andris Biedrins and Biedrins scores 5 points, then is that because of how well Lebron guarded him, or is it because Biedrins sucks.


If you put Joel Anthony on Dahntay Jones or Chris Duhon, and Duhon has his usual shitty game. Then can Joel Anthony guard 5 positions as well?

[Mr Exlax]

he can probly guard west for a while, but lebron cannot guard hibbert.

Can Tyson Chandler guard Roy Hibbert?

[Mr Exlax]

True, its a different set of muscle groups than he usually uses, and it would tire him, some. But in the fourth he does guard West.

Nah I'm talking all game.

[clutchinho]

Can Tyson Chandler guard Roy Hibbert?

Roy Hibbert shot 44% this season while not taking 3s


Pretty sure most centres that had a pulse did fine guarding him. He's feasting in the playoffs because

1/ Tyson Chandler is hurt/Knicks are small
2/ Lebron cant guard centres /Heat are small

[jlip]

When I saw this thread my mind immediately went to two games, and that was the Heat vs Lakers last season, and the Heat vs. Blazers 2011. Here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV3O94yv4vc) of Lebron guarding Gasol. It reminded me of what he did while guarding West the other night. James' size and strength allow him to be able to prevent a few select 4s and 5s from getting good post position which contributes to great ball denial. That's his best strategy against offensively minded 4s and 5s in the post, because if they get good position and are able to get the ball, he will struggle guarding them.

In the game vs the Blazers in '11, he was put on Camby in the fourth quarter and OT. I know Camby was not, and definitely not at that stage of his career, a dominant offensive player whatsoever, but the strategy worked out well for the Heat that game. Here are some excerpts from the post game article:

LeBron isn't a center, but he'll play one when neededJanuary 10, 2011|
By Ira Winderman, South Florida Sun Sentinel

LOS ANGELES — When Udonis Haslem went down with his potential season-ending foot injury in November, the whispers began:

Why not LeBron James at power forward for those minutes when Chris Bosh is on the bench?

Why not? Because Miami Heat coach Erik Spoelstra had bigger plans. He unleashed them during the latter stages of Sunday's 107-100 overtime victory against the Portland Trail Blazers at the Rose Garden:

LeBron at center. Marcus Camby, meet LeBron James.

The unorthodox move made it four positions handled for extended minutes by James this season, when counting the misguided early-season attempt to play James at point guard.

With the Heat sluggish for much of Sunday's game, Spoelstra sprung the look with 2:11 to play in the fourth quarter, with James at center, Bosh at power forward, James Jones at small forward and Dwyane Wade and Carlos Arroyo in the backcourt.

Link (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-01-10/sports/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-s011011_1_lebron-james-carlos-arroyo-heat-coach-erik-spoelstra)

Another article on that game (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/11/lebron-james-at-center-get-used-to-it/)

On another note, Magic Johnson played very little center at all in that famed 1980 NBA Finals game. He may have done the jump ball, but he did not spend much time if any at all guarding Daryl Dawkins, the opposing center.

[Mr Exlax]

Roy Hibbert shot 44% this season while not taking 3s


Pretty sure most centres that had a pulse did fine guarding him. He's feasting in the playoffs because

1/ Tyson Chandler is hurt/Knicks are small
2/ Lebron cant guard centres /Heat are small

When has he guarded Hibbert?

[Kblaze8855]

There are currently what 55 centers in the league. If Lebron can guard 50 of them he can guard centers.



Exactly.

This is not complicated.



Lebron can't guard centres, period


Just because half the centres in the league have no offensive games doesn't mean Lebron can guard them.



That is exactly what that means.

If a guy sucks....Lebron is about his size...

Lebron can guard him.

What he would do if he had to play smits, Shaq, Daugherty, Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, and Zo doesnt matter.

He doesnt have to play them. Hed have to play Hibbert, Vucevic, Asik, Thompson/Zeller, Splitter or Duncan, Chandler, or Bosh/Birdman/Joel Anthony if he played against the same teams today.

Exactly 2 of them would be expected to trouble you due to a mismatch.

Most centers today are not even a mismatch guarded by Lebron.

And the few who are still wont score much.

They would barely be given the ball no matter who guards them.

Lebron would have trouble on Greg Monroe if this were 1988 and they would give him the ball over and over and over.

In 2013 he wouldnt.

Mcgee is not going off because Lebron is on him and Kosta wont either.

Amir Johnson and Bargnani are not gonna terrorize Lebron. Jonas could score on him....but he barely gets the ball. And hes gonna do little in 20 minutes anyway.

Kevin Garnett is a midrange jumpshooter who takes 3 shots a game in the post these days and isnt that athletic. This isnt Minnesota KG. Lebron could guard him. Brandon Bass midrange jumpers too much for bron to handle?

Hawes? Lebron can guard him.

Perkins? Enough said.

Deandre? Please.

Byron Mullens and his 38% shooting?

JJ Hickson gonna eat Lebron up?

Noah gonna get a go to post move other than the funny looking off both feet jump hook?

Robin Lopez, Anthony Davis, or Ryan Anderson gonna keep him up nights?

Asik could push him around a bit and then not shoot. He would beast him on the boards but he wouldnt score more than usual.

Larry Sanders gonna punish him in the post? Sam Dalembert? Maybe get Drew Gooden out of his casket to teach Bron a thing or two?

This is not the old days and Kareem, Willis reed, and Dave Cowens are not back to back to back.

You get Dalembert, Tyson Chandler, and Brandon Bass/old KG now.

And on the rare night you run into a good scoring center its a guy like Hibbert who never actually scores much, Brook Lopez whos 18ppg has done nothing to help his team win, or Demarcus Cousins who might score 24 instead of 17 as the Heat beat them anyway.

The only threats to Lebron are threats to the usual people who guard them. Al Jefferson. Bynum. Duncan. Guys like that who can score on anyone.

Lebron would coast on at least half the centers in the NBA and not be especially poor on 80% of the others.

[Bandito]

Yeah that's why Hibbert and West are not eating the heat alive. Because Lebron is such a great defender.

[Mass Debator]

If Lebron could guard West or Hibbert, Battier shouldn't even start.

The Heat should start with:

Chalmers on Hill
Allen on Stephenson
Wade on George
Lebron on West
Bosh on Hibbert

Battier would come off the bench for Allen (who'll get to play around 30 minutes) to guard George and/or West. Allen then replaces Wade in the second quarter and Wade replaces Lebron around the 8 minute mark.

That line up provides enough offensive punch so Lebron can focus on defense. West would then be forced to guard Lebron on the perimeter.

What ya think?

[Kblaze8855]

You need to watch more basketball if a 17ppg(33minutes) guy getting 19(38 minutes) is what you think being eaten alive is.

Hibbert is going in by todays standards. Though he isnt doing that much in terms of straight creating shots on prepared defenses. Awful lot of it is putbacks, quick dumpoffs hes fouled on, and all that.

Ive wondered why he doesnt get the ball more every game. He needs to jump hook em to death as shaq would say. But he stays not getting the ball till he has to go get it himself off a miss.

Neither is doing anything a grip of all time great defenders have not allowed without being blamed for.

Nobody on the Pacers is doing anything to be remembered.

Amare dropped 38ppg on Tim Duncan. That was to be remembered.

Bet if he did it to Bron the conclusion would be that Lebron cant guard power forwards. But if course when its done to another bigman...that logic doesnt apply. Somehow.

[ripthekik]

kblaze just admit it, you fuuucking love lebron. like pauk level. seriously.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron can't (consistently) guard centers. People need to get off that bullshit. :oldlol:

[Ikill]

Lebrons size is overrated his reach/wingspan is similar to guys like Kevin Love Blake Griffin Michael Beasley Josh Smith players that are generally undersized pfs. He's too small for centers but he can guard some pfs.

[tpols]

Lebron can't (consistently) guard centers. People need to get off that bullshit. :oldlol:
Well according to kblaze since all the centers suck in the league besides maybe 5 of them he can.

Shit if you threw Durant or melo on most centers they wouldn't do any better than they normally do..guess they have amazing versatility as well lol

Such a dumb argument

[ProfessorMurder]

Lebron can't (consistently) guard centers. People need to get off that bullshit. :oldlol:

He can't guard real 4's either (West, ZBo, KG, etc), or point guards.

Such a huge myth that he can 'guard all 5 positions'.

[Kblaze8855]

kblaze just admit it, you fuuucking love lebron. like pauk level. seriously.

Meanwhile I get PMs saying:




I meant that you underrate him or underrate a certain aspect of his game in the contrast of another player whom you might be more favored to, despite the all existing factual chapter and verse in terms of any criteria (statistical or visual) that only thoroughly puts an asterisk on your differentiating opinion..... there is no authenticate proof to why in this case Larry Bird was a better passer, but there is proof (both statistically & visually) to why Lebron just might be.... the only authenticate proof that exists there only shows that Larry Bird is close to Lebron in terms of passing and a strict #2 in the "best passing non-guard ever" department....

Despite this i respected/respect your opinion, you think Larry Bird was a better passer... perfectly fine... i only asked "why?"... and you didnt present anything to justify that claim.... still.... perfectly fine....

But the case of you retaliating all of the sudden with insults and then call me the worst poster and a virus and so on simply because i authentically showed you something that questioned your opinion is low... especially as a guy in your position, an admin and a poster i considered my favorite poster.... silly me...

...and oh, thanks for another insult "idiot"... nice job insulting KennethGriffin aswell, i know he is a bad poster but you are equally bad if you insult him or actually worse considering you are an admin, i know you are not that immature (or maybe you are), just do your admin job and keep the insults to yourself....



Both of you are the exact same thing. Two extreme sides of one coin and I couldnt care less what either of your opinions are.

Neither of you seems to know much about basketball or have interest in discussing it. Just spin everything to be pro or anti Lebron with no consideration given to the discussion at hand.

There is no good reason to allow either of you to keep posting I just do it because being an idiot doesnt mean you dont get to have an opinion.

But I dont get much out of speaking to either of you.

Talking to normal people I get the impression points are being made...and agree to disagree...its a conversation.

Im not trying to bounce information off you types all day for nothing. Its easier to ignore you. Which I do usually try to do. And will continue....now.

[Bandito]

^Didn't pauk said the same thing once?

[Kblaze8855]

Well according to kblaze since all the centers suck in the league besides maybe 5 of them he can.

Shit if you threw Durant or melo on most centers they wouldn't do any better than they normally do..guess they have amazing versatility as well lol

Such a dumb argument

If its dumb explain the error. Will the people I listed as non offensive types score on Lebron?

If not....can he not guard them?

And yes...most of those guys wouldnt score on Melo either.

What of it?

You get the impression id say otherwise?

Centers today....do not get the ball.

You cant fail to see this.

If out of 30 people....20 cant or dont score.....Lebron can guard them....

How is this even arguable?


You can argue it isnt impressive to be able to guard people who cant score anyway.

Id agree.

You cant tell me JJ Hickson would light Lebron up. Or Asik. Or Mullens. Or Perkins. Or Noah. Or Dalembert. Or Mcgee. Or a gang of others.

So what are you talking about?

Did I miss Hakeem when I watched the league this year?

Or is your claim he cant guard people based on centers who dont exist?

Lebron would struggle to guard centers from 1960-1996 or so.

In 2013 there is next to nobody to worry about.

[FLDFSU]

Why does Lebron have to guard INDY's most difficult match ups when he as "the greatest supporting cast" ever assembled.

[pegasus]

Why does Lebron have to guard INDY's most difficult match ups when he as "the greatest supporting cast" ever assembled.
Is that why Spo had to make an adjustment and put Wade on PG?:lol

[Bandito]

Why does Lebron have to guard INDY's most difficult match ups when he as "the greatest supporting cast" ever assembled.
Because stans say his supporting cast sucks and in order to win Lebron has to play like a "superstar" as per TNT.

[FLDFSU]

Is that why Spo had to make an adjustment and put Wade on PG?:lol


Didn't you say Wade was a top 3 player in the NBA?

[Teanett]

Exactly.

This is not complicated.




That is exactly what that means.

If a guy sucks....Lebron is about his size...

Lebron can guard him.

What he would do if he had to play smits, Shaq, Daugherty, Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, and Zo doesnt matter.

He doesnt have to play them. Hed have to play Hibbert, Vucevic, Asik, Thompson/Zeller, Splitter or Duncan, Chandler, or Bosh/Birdman/Joel Anthony if he played against the same teams today.

Exactly 2 of them would be expected to trouble you due to a mismatch.

Most centers today are not even a mismatch guarded by Lebron.

And the few who are still wont score much.

They would barely be given the ball no matter who guards them.

Lebron would have trouble on Greg Monroe if this were 1988 and they would give him the ball over and over and over.

In 2013 he wouldnt.

Mcgee is not going off because Lebron is on him and Kosta wont either.

Amir Johnson and Bargnani are not gonna terrorize Lebron. Jonas could score on him....but he barely gets the ball. And hes gonna do little in 20 minutes anyway.

Kevin Garnett is a midrange jumpshooter who takes 3 shots a game in the post these days and isnt that athletic. This isnt Minnesota KG. Lebron could guard him. Brandon Bass midrange jumpers too much for bron to handle?

Hawes? Lebron can guard him.

Perkins? Enough said.

Deandre? Please.

Byron Mullens and his 38% shooting?

JJ Hickson gonna eat Lebron up?

Noah gonna get a go to post move other than the funny looking off both feet jump hook?

Robin Lopez, Anthony Davis, or Ryan Anderson gonna keep him up nights?

Asik could push him around a bit and then not shoot. He would beast him on the boards but he wouldnt score more than usual.

Larry Sanders gonna punish him in the post? Sam Dalembert? Maybe get Drew Gooden out of his casket to teach Bron a thing or two?

This is not the old days and Kareem, Willis reed, and Dave Cowens are not back to back to back.

You get Dalembert, Tyson Chandler, and Brandon Bass/old KG now.

And on the rare night you run into a good scoring center its a guy like Hibbert who never actually scores much, Brook Lopez whos 18ppg has done nothing to help his team win, or Demarcus Cousins who might score 24 instead of 17 as the Heat beat them anyway.

The only threats to Lebron are threats to the usual people who guard them. Al Jefferson. Bynum. Duncan. Guys like that who can score on anyone.

Lebron would coast on at least half the centers in the NBA and not be especially poor on 80% of the others.

what about Brook Lopez? huh? huh? huh? Bron cant guard him. huh?

:D

[Bandito]

Didn't you say Wade was a top 3 player in the NBA?
He's injured and that's why the King has to resort to the ROYAL floppin!!!

[tpols]

If its dumb explain the error. Will the people I listed as non offensive types score on Lebron?

If not....can he not guard them?

And yes...most of those guys wouldnt score on Melo either.

What of it?

You get the impression id say otherwise?

Centers today....do not get the ball.

You cant fail to see this.

If out of 30 people....20 cant or dont score.....Lebron can guard them....

How is this even arguable?


You can argue it isnt impressive to be able to guard people who cant score anyway.

Id agree.

You cant tell me JJ Hickson would light Lebron up. Or Asik. Or Mullens. Or Perkins. Or Noah. Or Dalembert. Or Mcgee. Or a gang of others.

So what are you talking about?

Did I miss Hakeem when I watched the league this year?

Or is your claim he cant guard people based on centers who dont exist?

Lebron would struggle to guard centers from 1960-1996 or so.

In 2013 there is next to nobody to worry about.
Yea but when people say, Lebron is an amazing defender he can lock up positions 1-5 one of the most versatile ever etc. That automatically puts him in comparison with the other great versatile defenders that played the game before him.. It's unfair to say LeBron can guard centers because he plays in such a weak big man era and act like he's more versatile than other before him who had to contend with legit talent at the position.

IDK what you're stance on that is but as far as the 1-5 myth goes, it's unfair to give him a pass over others for the reasons you state.

[Mr Exlax]

Yea but when people say, Lebron is an amazing defender he can lock up positions 1-5 one of the most versatile ever etc. That automatically puts him in comparison with the other great versatile defenders that played the game before him.. It's unfair to say LeBron can guard centers because he plays in such a weak big man era and act like he's more versatile than other before him who had to contend with legit talent at the position.

IDK what you're stance on that is but as far as the 1-5 myth goes, it's unfair to give him a pass over others for the reasons you state.

The thing is, I haven't seen one person say he can lock up positions 1-5. I only say he can defend them. Of course he's not gonna stop most of the elite players at that positions, but then again, not even other elite players at those positions do it either. If your team is in a bind though, best believe you can insert him and more times than not, he's not gonna get used and abused. He's not going up against all-time greats though.

[Kblaze8855]

Yea but when people say, Lebron is an amazing defender he can lock up positions 1-5 one of the most versatile ever etc.

Show me people saying he can lock up 1-5. Its mostly a case of people getting upset about shit few are saying. you have never seen me say it. Why would I need to defend it?


That automatically puts him in comparison with the other great versatile defenders that played the game before him.. It's unfair to say LeBron can guard centers because he plays in such a weak big man era and act like he's more versatile than other before him who had to contend with legit talent at the position.

Unfair?

I was under the impression that we were talking about the world as it is. Not one that is fair.

Centers are largely garbagemen now....meaning Lebron can guard them.

Doesnt mean he can guard David robinson well or contain Kareem.

It means he can guard the people there to guard.

Cant ask him to do anything else.


IDK what you're stance on that is but as far as the 1-5 myth goes, it's unfair to give him a pass over others for the reasons you state.

Myths arent true. Lebron being able to guard 1-5 wouldnt be true...if centers were what they used to be.

But they arent.

Making the claim that he can guard 1-5....a fact.

Just isnt a fact that makes the league look good.

[magnax1]

I dont think Ive ever seen Lebron effectively guard a center. Not many PFs either honestly. Hes great at ball denial, but once they have the ball it's over, even if they arent much of a post player.
I mean, he can guard mid and small size PFs like West, Millsap, Griffin pretty well. The stronger and taller guys like Love, Aldridge, Duncan, KG, Randolph, Horford etc.? Hed be pretty brutally taken apart. So he can guard some PFs. Most of the PFs who can score in the post would shit on him though. He cant guard any real centers. Ive never seen it happen.

[Kblaze8855]

Ball/position denial is the vast majority of post defense. Dikembe Mutombo isnt worth much when a 7 footer is leaning on his chest 2 feet from the basket. Which is why so few great defensive bigmen are known for their man to man defense.

Nate thurmond and Dennis rodman are the only ones off the top of my head and Dennis was a small forward till he was 30.

You dont shut down a great bigman on the ball. You deny him position in the first place and make him catch it outside his spots.

I was reading Bill Russell explain something about that once. Its pretty basic.

I was a 4 in high school despite being a tad under 6'3''. I cant stop someone way bigger than me from shooting over me 5 feet fromthe basket. But I can keep him from getting to his spot and getting an easy catch.

Thats mostly what youre asked to do on any level. being able to stop a guy with a good jump hook when he has a 9'4'' standing reach is gravy.

Gravy not many have.

Which is why the best bigmen defenders are usually off the ball playmakers famed for blocks and preventing drives.

You dont get a name shutting down stars in the paint. Mostly because nobody does it on a regular basis.

Mutombo had trains run on him by half the good centers in the 90s.

He just didnt let their teammates get to the basket.

Some of the best man to man post defenders ive seen are Kurt thomas, PJ Brown briefly, Chris Dudley, and guys like that nobody remembers.

[wpdougie2180]

Lebron can guard 4 and 5s in the same vein as Jeff Green can also meaning alot of them aren't scoring threats but if you match them up with a 4 or 5 that can score for any significant time they will be exposed they they infact can't guard those positions. Now people will say Green played 4 in OKC or Lebron plays 4 now but like I said match them up on scoring bigs and it will prove to be a mismatch.

An example of this happened last year when Lebron tried to guard KG in the ECF the Heat were on there way to a loss until Bosh returned in game 6 (played 14 mins. in game 5) to guard KG and the whole series changed...that's the dirty little secret no one talks about in game 6 and 7 (Kg went from avg. 21 and 10 to 13 and 6 when bosh returned)

[magnax1]

Theres a difference between being able to contest a shot and stopping a shot. If Pau Gasol, Duncan, or any other post player gets the ball against Lebron with reasonable post position, its basically automatic. Thats not something you can say about most guys who can guard bigs. Theyre going to at least make those guys take a 50/50 shot most of the time. Its not really an insult. There are bigs who cant do that either. Boozer, Millsap etc. Thats why there are all those 7 foot stiffs in the NBA.

[Kblaze8855]

Lebron can guard 4 and 5s in the same vein as Jeff Green can also meaning alot of them aren't scoring threats but if you match them up with a 4 or 5 that can score for any significant time they will be exposed they they infact can't guard those positions. Now people will say Green played 4 in OKC or Lebron plays 4 now but like I said match them up on scoring bigs and it will prove to be a mismatch.

An example of this happened last year when Lebron tried to guard KG in the ECF the Heat were on there way to a loss until Bosh returned in game 6 (played 14 mins. in game 5) to guard KG and the whole series changed...that's the dirty little secret no one talks about in game 6 and 7 (Kg went from avg. 21 and 10 to 13 and 6 when bosh returned)


I read this and thought back on the series. Did not remember it that way. So...I do a little checking.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Gvg4M2wVs

^

all 11 of KGs made baskets in his highest scoring game.

Lebron was defending him on....zero.

figured maybe I check another one. Second highest scoring.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkuZCtBLdBo


I got to where(combined with the first) its 16 straight field goals Lebron had nothing to do with and I went to the next game he played well in:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jySxo9fDZHY


All combined I was 23 field goals in before he scored one on Lebron. But Lebron guarding him was why he was going off and the Celtics had the edge?

He scored some on Lebron. Maybe towards the end of the middle one I just cut off halfway. But its obvious most of the damage wasnt done on him especially in his big games.

As usual its perception and not reality shaping the argument.

If Lebron was guarding KG that series it appears it was when he wasnt making shots. Which is not me saying he shut KG down.

Its me saying....look at the shots KG made and come back and tell me Lebron was the one you see him scoring on.

[chips93]

I dont think Ive ever seen Lebron effectively guard a center. Not many PFs either honestly. Hes great at ball denial, but once they have the ball it's over, even if they arent much of a post player.
I mean, he can guard mid and small size PFs like West, Millsap, Griffin pretty well. The stronger and taller guys like Love, Aldridge, Duncan, KG, Randolph, Horford etc.? Hed be pretty brutally taken apart. So he can guard some PFs. Most of the PFs who can score in the post would shit on him though. He cant guard any real centers. Ive never seen it happen.

pau gasol is a center, he has guarded him pretty effectively.

if you can stop your opponent from catching the ball, with decent frequency, then you are doing a good job defensively.

you could say, its maybe a kind of gimmick, or not real defense, but its effective, and it counts.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Well technically anyone can guard anyone. Hell I could guard an NBA player. He would destroy me in the post and chalk up 2 points almost every time. But technically I was still guarding him while he scored! :lol Yeah, you could even put Nate Robinson on say, Tim Duncan. Would that be a good idea? Probably not.

I think KBlaze is saying that LeBron is quick enough to guard point guards, and strong/big enough to guard centers as well. But because the centers are so watered down in the league today, ie, most of them aren't even a scoring threat, even putting LeBron on them won't hurt the team at all. In other words, LeBron can guard shitty centers effectively, but definitely not something like Hakeem, Duncan or Shaq.

Yes, LeBron CAN guard 4s or 5s. But can he guard 4s or 5s effectively on a regular basis? No.

So in short, the whole theory that LeBron could lockdown all positions(1-5) is simply a hyperbole.