Kareem 1980 Finals MVP [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Ne 1

05-31-2013, 01:56 PM

For all the greatness of Magic's Game 6, Kareem had 2-3 games in that series vs the Sixers alone with as much impact, if not more (when defense is considered) than Magic had in Game 6 (people forget Wilkes' performance in game 6 as well btw, who also had the best game of his career, but would anyone say he was more valuable during that series than Kareem?) Kareem was unstoppable on offense, he was the defensive anchor (5 freaking blocks a game) I wouldn't even say Magic created as many plays for his teammates as Kareem did in the half court, he was the clutchest player who won games in the 4th quarters for the Lakers...went down to injury in third quarter of game 5, came back in fourth quarter and made clutch shot after clutch shot in the last three minutes to secure the 3-2 lead. But that's not as heroic as Magic's performance because Kareem is a 7 footer who people don't relate with as much.

So I've done some research and apparently a few writers were apparently persuaded by CBS to change their vote in favor of Kareem's popular, charismatic teammate Magic Johnson.

http://oi44.tinypic.com/33kroqw.jpg

http://books.google.com/books?id=D0aqnXNYraAC&pg=PA140&img=1&pgis=1&dq=Bill+Livingston&sig=ACfU3U25vybyXOEBpvhba1uHQctFSBrSbw&edge=0

Bill Livingston publicly confessed that he and others changed votes to deny Kareem the award because CBS did not want to present to an empty chair.

This was during Kareem’s final season in an effort to clear his conscience and ask forgiveness.

He was 1 of 7 chosen to vote for '80 Finals MVP. After game 6 the tally had Kareem as the winner. CBS didn't want to present to an absent Kareem, so voters were pressured & coerced to change votes.

It’s covered on pgs 140 – 141 of “Kareem”
written in 1990.

On Kareem's farewell tour Bill Livingston confessed "enough of us saps changed our votes to deny Kareem the award by 4-3 count."

This thread isn't meant to diminish or belittle Magic. Anyway I feel he was deserving of the '88 Finals MVP when Worthy won and IMO MVP of the Finals is a pretty useless award since it's based on 4-7 games and with that you have cases like Tony Parker winning MVP over Duncan in '07 and Cedric Maxwell winning over Bird in '81 for example. Even John Starks came within one shot of winning a Finals MVP.

fpliii

05-31-2013, 01:58 PM

:applause:

Thanks for the information, really makes one put the FMVP in perspective.

dh144498

05-31-2013, 02:00 PM

inb4 someone comes in and posts something about Kobe robbing Gasol of his FMVP in 2010.

jlip

05-31-2013, 02:02 PM

That's an interesting "behind the scenes" read. It's always enlightening to be exposed to the story behind things happening, but honestly, I think that most informed b-ball fans know that Kareem should have been named Finals MVP that year.

K Xerxes

05-31-2013, 02:02 PM

I agree with all of this. Kareem was the best player on that team for the entire regular season, playoffs and final until game 6 where he was unfortunately injured and Magic had that historic game. Magic was ridiculously good then, no doubt, but Kareem was simply better and deserved that Finals MVP. Didn't he average like 33-14?

FMVP is such a misleading award anyway; it would be far more accurate and representative of performance if it was a Playoffs MVP.

Thanks for the info, I've always argued that Kareem should have won the FMVP, so this is good to see. :applause:

That's an interesting "behind the scenes" read. It's always enlightening to be exposed to the story behind things happening, but honestly, I think that most informed b-ball fans know that Kareem should have been named Finals MVP that year.

I'm not sure, really. I think the knock many people have on Kareem is that out of the five championships he won with the Lakers, he only had one FMVP. It's understandable why the casual fan would think Magic was the 'man' throughout the entire Showtime Lakers era. As it stands, he has won 6 rings and 2 FMVP, but who would argue that Magic was greater than Kareem if Kareem had 6 rings and 3 FMVP?

(I disagree with the notion of ranking players based on accolades, but this is how most casual fans do it. Regardless, I still think kareem was a better player than Magic.)

Ne 1

05-31-2013, 02:07 PM

:applause:

Thanks for the information, really makes one put the FMVP in perspective.

:cheers:

Kareem for people who don't know had....

33/14/5/6 in game 1
38/14/3/5 in game 2 (made many clutch shots but Bobby Jones ended up hitting game winner)
33/14/3/4 in game 3
40/15/4 in game 5 (heroic fourth quarter on a badly sprained ankle. if he doesn't come up big in that fourth quarter, Sixers lead 3-2 and have 2 games to eliminate the Lakers)

He beasted in nearly every game. Magic wasn't the one Sixers were developing a game plan to beat by sending doubles and triples either.

here's highlights of his game 2 performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1kgHXG_Ot8

and highlights of his game 5 performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMIC4zKK_nE

fpliii

05-31-2013, 02:20 PM

:cheers:

Kareem for people who don't know had....

33/14/5/6 in game 1
38/14/3/5 in game 2 (made many clutch shots but Bobby Jones ended up hitting game winner)
33/14/3/4 in game 3
40/15/4 in game 5 (heroic fourth quarter on a badly sprained ankle. if he doesn't come up big in that fourth quarter, Sixers lead 3-2 and have 2 games to eliminate the Lakers)

He beasted in nearly every game. Magic wasn't the one Sixers were developing a game plan to beat by sending doubles and triples either.

here's highlights of his game 2 performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1kgHXG_Ot8

and highlights of his game 5 performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMIC4zKK_nE

Those three Lakers-Sixers series are actually all worth a watch. Everybody who hasn't done so yet should head over to YouTube (or download the torrents) and check out the 80, 82, 83 Finals. Great stuff.

stanlove1111

05-31-2013, 02:22 PM

:applause:

Thanks for the information, really makes one put the FMVP in perspective.

I have never seen anyone obsesse with finals fmvp awards when judging players before until I saw this board. Its like this board is infested with that nonsense.I can't think of a dumber argument then fmvp awards when ranking one player against another..If it was my board I would ban anyone who used the argument for a month..When I see this obsession I feel like I am talking to someone with a really low IQ.

Player one..

Dominates the first three rounds of the playoffs and feeds teammate with matchup advantage in finals despite being the best player on the team. Wins title, and is obviously best player on team. Teammate who went off in finals is the fmvp..

Player two..

Is second best player on team for 3 of 4 playoff series. Gets hot in finals because of matchup advantage and because teams star happily backs out of the way and lets him go...he wins fmvp..

In this case the morons on this board would act like player one should be knocked and player two deserves more credit for title..

Like I said low IQ nonsense..It should be banned from this board..

lakerspng

05-31-2013, 02:22 PM

Have that series on DVD. Miss the Showtime Lakers...

The Iron Fist

05-31-2013, 02:26 PM

Have that series on DVD. Miss the Showtime Lakers...
Where did you buy? I'd like to see it.

lakerspng

05-31-2013, 02:41 PM

Where did you buy? I'd like to see it.

Didn't buy it. a friend of mine who's an editor in the sports world gave me a copy of his entire collection. about 30-40 of the best/most significant Lakers games, including whole finals series. Lakers vs Celtics, Lakers vs Sixers, etc.

fpliii

05-31-2013, 02:44 PM

I have never seen anyone obsesse with finals fmvp awards when judging players before until I saw this board. Its like this board is infested with that nonsense.I can't think of a dumber argument then fmvp awards when ranking one player against another..If it was my board I would ban anyone who used the argument for a month..When I see this obsession I feel like I am talking to someone with a really low IQ.

Player one..

Dominates the first three rounds of the playoffs and feeds teammate with matchup advantage in finals despite being the best player on the team. Wins title, and is obviously best player on team. Teammate who went off in finals is the fmvp..

Player two..

Is second best player on team for 3 of 4 playoff series. Gets hot in finals because of matchup advantage and because teams star happily backs out of the way and lets him go...he wins fmvp..

In this case the morons on this board would act like player one should be knocked and player two deserves more credit for title..

Like I said low IQ nonsense..It should be banned from this board..

I think there are two separate issues (1980 aside, since it seems to be an anomaly):

1) FMVP is a guy getting hot, outperforming the team's best player up until that point
2) FMVP is awarded to a guy who didn't necessarily have the best series, for whatever other reason (voters can't look past scoring, star bias, etc.)

If it was up to me (which it isn't), there'd be four separate postseason awards: FMVP and ECF/WCF MVP (which is what MLB does), and an overall Playoffs MVP. Four awards seems a bit excessive, though, so maybe not. If I have some free time, I'll have to draft out who my winners would be, should be an interesting exercise.

KG215

05-31-2013, 02:51 PM

:cheers:

Kareem for people who don't know had....

33/14/5/6 in game 1
38/14/3/5 in game 2 (made many clutch shots but Bobby Jones ended up hitting game winner)
33/14/3/4 in game 3
40/15/4 in game 5 (heroic fourth quarter on a badly sprained ankle. if he doesn't come up big in that fourth quarter, Sixers lead 3-2 and have 2 games to eliminate the Lakers)

He beasted in nearly every game. Magic wasn't the one Sixers were developing a game plan to beat by sending doubles and triples either.

here's highlights of his game 2 performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1kgHXG_Ot8

and highlights of his game 5 performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMIC4zKK_nE
I think game 5 was also the game Magic had something like 10 turnovers. I think he had a triple-double, too, but if I remember right he had a lot of turnovers and it wasn't his best game. Kareem dropped 26 in the first half, hurt his ankle in the 3rd quarter, and came out and scored 14 in the 4th to get the win the hurt ankle.

LeBron gets a thread for "being the best ever when he plays at that level" thread after scoring 16 in the 3rd quarter. Kareem dropped 14 in the 4th quarter of a Finals game on a bad ankle, and carried his team to a win.

K Xerxes

05-31-2013, 03:01 PM

I think game 5 was also the game Magic had something like 10 turnovers. I think he had a triple-double, too, but if I remember right he had a lot of turnovers and it wasn't his best game. Kareem dropped 26 in the first half, hurt his ankle in the 3rd quarter, and came out and scored 14 in the 4th to get the win the hurt ankle.

LeBron gets a thread for "being the best ever when he plays at that level" thread after scoring 16 in the 3rd quarter. Kareem dropped 14 in the 4th quarter of a Finals game on a bad ankle, and carried his team to a win.

Magic had 14 points, 15 rebounds, 10 assists and 10 turnovers on 4/13 shooting in game 5.

Kareem massively outplayed Magic in game 1, 2, 3 and 5. Magic only outplayed Kareem in game 4 (he had 28-9-9 on 10/14 while Kareem had 23-11 on 11/27). However, in that game, Lakers were down 3 and Magic committed a turnover in the final few seconds, and Philly won.

KG215

05-31-2013, 03:10 PM

Magic had 14 points, 15 rebounds, 10 assists and 10 turnovers on 4/13 shooting in game 5.

Kareem massively outplayed Magic in game 1, 2, 3 and 5. Magic only outplayed Kareem in game 4 (he had 28-9-9 on 10/14 while Kareem had 23-11 on 11/27). However, in that game, Lakers were down 3 and Magic committed a turnover in the final few seconds, and Philly won.
Yeah, everything I've read about that series (along with the boxscores) made it pretty clear Kareem was better than Magic in the first 5 games. It's a shame the TV network was able to convince voters to change their vote for the sake of the "feel good story" storyline.

Ne 1

05-31-2013, 03:22 PM

Yeah, everything I've read about that series (along with the boxscores) made it pretty clear Kareem was better than Magic in the first 5 games. It's a shame the TV network was able to convince voters to change their vote for the sake of the "feel good story" storyline.

There's no way anybody can sit and watch every game of the 1980 Finals and come to the conclusion that Magic was the "most valuable player" of the series. Kareem dominated, hit clutch shots all series (really no reason for him not to be in the argument for clutchest player ever), and averaged 33/14/3/5 on 55% for the series.

He won MVP that season averaging 25/11/5/4 60 FG%, led the league in blocks, finished 2nd in FG%, 6th in scoring and 8th in rebounding and put up 32/12/3/4 in the playoffs in route to a championship.

I feel that 1980 Kareem is one of the most overlooked seasons from start to finish, a big reason might be because he didn't win Finals MVP.

stanlove1111

05-31-2013, 03:40 PM

There's no way anybody can sit and watch every game of the 1980 Finals and come to the conclusion that Magic was the "most valuable player" of the series. Kareem dominated, hit clutch shots all series (really no reason for him not to be in the argument for clutchest player ever), and averaged 33/14/3/5 on 55% for the series.

He won MVP that season averaging 25/11/5/4 60 FG%, led the league in blocks, finished 2nd in FG%, 6th in scoring and 8th in rebounding and put up 32/12/3/4 in the playoffs in route to a championship.

I feel that 1980 Kareem is one of the most overlooked seasons from start to finish, a big reason might be because he didn't win Finals MVP.

I watched the series at the time..Kareem domintated big time.

Replay32

05-31-2013, 04:46 PM

Yeah Kareem was robbed in 1980 for sure.

get these NETS

05-31-2013, 04:52 PM

question for any kareem fan

or any knowledgeable sports fan

why didn't cap travel with the team to game 6?

Harison

05-31-2013, 04:53 PM

Little thought goes into voting for FMVP, drama and "story" >>> any rationale.

longtime lurker

05-31-2013, 05:00 PM

I have never seen anyone obsesse with finals fmvp awards when judging players before until I saw this board. Its like this board is infested with that nonsense.I can't think of a dumber argument then fmvp awards when ranking one player against another..If it was my board I would ban anyone who used the argument for a month..When I see this obsession I feel like I am talking to someone with a really low IQ.

Player one..

Dominates the first three rounds of the playoffs and feeds teammate with matchup advantage in finals despite being the best player on the team. Wins title, and is obviously best player on team. Teammate who went off in finals is the fmvp..

Player two..

Is second best player on team for 3 of 4 playoff series. Gets hot in finals because of matchup advantage and because teams star happily backs out of the way and lets him go...he wins fmvp..

In this case the morons on this board would act like player one should be knocked and player two deserves more credit for title..

Like I said low IQ nonsense..It should be banned from this board..

Really the only reason finals MVP are even brought up is to somehow diminish Kobe despite the fact that he has 5 rings. That's why you only see it on message boards because they're filled with insane obsessive trolls that are heavily biased.

Oh this story also proves why any MVP voting done by the media is a joke.

Rooster

05-31-2013, 05:00 PM

question for any kareem fan

or any knowledgeable sports fan

why didn't cap travel with the team to game 6?

Lakers want to rest him so he will be available for game 7. I remember on the radio interview with Wilkes (not sure) that it was forgone conclusion that they will lose game 6 without Kareem. Then Magic kinda lift their spirits inside the plane with how they gonna win game 6. And the rest is history. Also Magic did not play center like the myth goes.

KG215

05-31-2013, 05:04 PM

Jamaal Wilkes gets overlooked in that game 6 win, too. Not that Magic doesn't deserve almost all the spot light, but Wilkes scored 25 in the second half and 37 for the game.

Rooster

05-31-2013, 05:12 PM

Really the only reason finals MVP are even brought up is to somehow diminish Kobe despite the fact that he has 5 rings. That's why you only see it on message boards because they're filled with insane obsessive trolls that are heavily biased.

Oh this story also proves why any MVP voting done by the media is a joke.

I rather have the players vote for the MVP. I'm pretty Shaq would have at least 3. Media votes usually goes for best storyline, players who exceeded expectations, best player on best regular season record. If you look at the players vote, they usually vote for simply the best player. If media voting started back then, I'm pretty sure Jerry West would have at least 3.

Ne 1

05-31-2013, 05:13 PM

Little thought goes into voting for FMVP, drama and "story" >>> any rationale.

True, and CBS wanted a face in front of the cameras rather than an empty chair and who better than a young, popular, charismatic smiling "Magic"- Man after a phenomenal performance.

NumberSix

05-31-2013, 05:14 PM

Kareem. BULLY!!

longtime lurker

05-31-2013, 05:22 PM

I rather have the players vote for the MVP. I'm pretty Shaq would have at least 3. Media votes usually goes for best storyline, players who exceeded expectations, best player on best regular season record. If you look at the players vote, they usually vote for simply the best player. If media voting started back then, I'm pretty sure Jerry West would have at least 3.

This times 100. I'd put more faith in guys that actually play these guys day in and day out to vote than media members who just vote for the popular choice or story.

jzek

05-31-2013, 06:17 PM

That's why you don't let the media ppl to vote on important awards :facepalm

get these NETS

05-31-2013, 07:43 PM

Lakers want to rest him so he will be available for game 7. I remember on the radio interview with Wilkes (not sure) that it was forgone conclusion that they will lose game 6 without Kareem. Then Magic kinda lift their spirits inside the plane with how they gonna win game 6. And the rest is history. Also Magic did not play center like the myth goes.

thanks

I also read that Magic sat in Kareem's spot on the plane...and took on a LOT of pressure as a 19/20 year old kid......books I've read said that it was a BIG deal to sit in cap's seat and that like you said.....Magic put on the leadership mantle.

I

get these NETS

05-31-2013, 07:46 PM

Myth that Bird was better than Magic earlier in their pro careers is shortsided...

Magic was a winning basketball player and like he said during the shaq/kobe feud..."If we ran a play to Cap and scored....we'd run the same play 50 straight times until the defense found a way to stop it, just smart basketball"

I read from that that he was implying that the offense should go through the then-unguardable-because-nba-stopped-calling-charges and offensive fouls-era-Shaq.... because that was just smarter basketball

Lakers2877

05-31-2013, 07:54 PM

Interesting.

Magics game 6 might be the greatest performance I've ever seen considering the circumstances. But yeah Kareem was the man.

Doesn't the NHL have an MVP of the entire playoffs? I wouldn't mind seeing the NBA do that

Lakers2877

05-31-2013, 07:59 PM

inb4 someone comes in and posts something about Kobe robbing Gasol of his FMVP in 2010.
Yeah, everybody remembers how poorly Kobe shot in game 7 but forget gasol went 6/16 from the field and 7/13 from the line. Ray Allen went 3/14. It was just a brutal shooting night all around. Kobe was the best player in 5 of the 7 and gasol was the best in 2 of the 7. But people hate Kobe so of course Gasol was robbed

Anaximandro1

05-31-2013, 09:00 PM

I can't think of a dumber argument then fmvp awards when ranking one player against another.
the best players will win the most awards in the long run because luck always evens out

Jordan,Magic,Duncan,Shaq,Kareem,Bird,Olajuwon,Kobe ,Reed are the only players with multiple FMVP

However,it's better to use MVP+FMVP+Titles as#1

Really the only reason finals MVP are even brought up is to somehow diminish Kobe despite the fact that he has 5 rings.
Let's ignore FMVP,and MVP and the fact the guy is a first round virgin w/o Shaq/Pau

Let's ignore the fact that he only won 2 titles as #1.

Sure,he averaged 29/7/6 in 16 games in 2001 ,which is probably inadequate to win a title in the early 2000s with a 15 ppg guy as the second best player (T-Mac put up 34/7/8 in 2001 FR).

So let's count rings

The Iron Fist

05-31-2013, 11:41 PM

the best players will win the most awards in the long run because luck always evens out

Jordan,Magic,Duncan,Shaq,Kareem,Bird,Olajuwon,Kobe ,Reed are the only players with multiple FMVP

However,it's better to use MVP+FMVP+Titles as#1

Let's ignore FMVP,and MVP and the fact the guy is a first round virgin w/o Shaq/Pau

Let's ignore the fact that he only won 2 titles as #1.

Sure,he averaged 29/7/6 in 16 games in 2001 ,which is probably inadequate to win a title in the early 2000s with a 15 ppg guy as the second best player (T-Mac put up 34/7/8 in 2001 FR).

So let's count rings

Shaq has zero finals wins pre Kobe.
Pau has zero playoff wins pre Kobe.

Shaq, the supposed Most Dominant Ever, has been to 6 finals compared to Kobes 7.

Shaq, the supposed Most Dominant Ever, had Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel, all stars, and still couldn't win a ring.

Basically, stfu.

jlip

06-01-2013, 01:02 AM

inb4 someone comes in and posts something about Kobe robbing Gasol of his FMVP in 2010.

^The post that singlehandedly corrupted this thread.^

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

longtime lurker

06-01-2013, 01:07 AM

the best players will win the most awards in the long run because luck always evens out

Jordan,Magic,Duncan,Shaq,Kareem,Bird,Olajuwon,Kobe ,Reed are the only players with multiple FMVP

However,it's better to use MVP+FMVP+Titles as#1

Let's ignore FMVP,and MVP and the fact the guy is a first round virgin w/o Shaq/Pau

Let's ignore the fact that he only won 2 titles as #1.

Sure,he averaged 29/7/6 in 16 games in 2001 ,which is probably inadequate to win a title in the early 2000s with a 15 ppg guy as the second best player (T-Mac put up 34/7/8 in 2001 FR).

So let's count rings

Again my point stands about posters having some horribly weak agendas . So in your world Kobe only has 2 titles, yet for some reason everyone living in the real world believes he has 5.

secund2nun

06-01-2013, 01:26 AM

inb4 someone comes in and posts something about Kobe robbing Gasol of his FMVP in 2010.

Gasol was the real 2010 finals MVP- not chokie bryant.

305Baller

06-01-2013, 05:05 AM

Bill Livingston should be dishonored.

Nevaeh

06-01-2013, 06:26 AM

True, and CBS wanted a face in front of the cameras rather than an empty chair and who better than a young, popular, charismatic smiling "Magic"- Man after a phenomenal performance.

OK, cool. And what were Magic's stats during that "must win Game" without Kareem, since all he could offer was a "smile" and all.

:rolleyes:

Ne 1

06-01-2013, 10:07 AM

OK, cool. And what were Magic's stats during that "must win Game" without Kareem, since all he could offer was a "smile" and all.

:rolleyes:

Why are you misrepresenting what I said? Don't act like you didn't see that I said 'after a phenomenal performance.'

Also, it wasn't a "must win game." The Lakers were up 3-2 going into Game 6.

fpliii

02-25-2014, 02:33 AM

bump

c5terror

02-25-2014, 05:33 AM

Kareem is Overated,
if you put "*" to lebron james post cavs, you should also put "*"x100 On kareem since Magic x100 better than Bosh+Wade.

East_Stone_Ya

02-25-2014, 05:39 AM

Kareem is Overated,
if you put "*" to lebron james post cavs, you should also put "*"x100 On kareem since Magic x100 better than Bosh+Wade.

:biggums:

LAZERUSS

02-25-2014, 07:37 PM

Had Kareem PLAYED in that game six, and even played an average game, yes, he would have deserved the FMVP.

He MISSED the most critical game of the series.

I still recall an announcer, before the start of the game, asking where LA's was going to get 33 points and 14 rebounds from without KAJ in the lineup.

Magic answered it pretty well. 42 points, on 14-23 FG/FGA, and 14-14 FT/FTA, with seven assists, and 15 rebounds (which was five more than anyone else who played that night.)

And Magic proved two years later that he was easily the best player on the floor in the '82 Finals.

Element

06-19-2014, 10:23 AM

Stringer Bell

06-19-2014, 12:08 PM

Yeah, everybody remembers how poorly Kobe shot in game 7 but forget gasol went 6/16 from the field and 7/13 from the line. Ray Allen went 3/14. It was just a brutal shooting night all around. Kobe was the best player in 5 of the 7 and gasol was the best in 2 of the 7. But people hate Kobe so of course Gasol was robbed

I think Ray was expending a lot of energy guarding Kobe. He did an excellent defensive job, but it affected his offense.

Ray shoots 21% and Kobe shoots 25%.

Ugly but still exciting game.

Stringer Bell

06-19-2014, 12:09 PM

Roundball_Rock

06-19-2014, 12:38 PM

[QUOTE=Ne 1]For all the greatness of Magic's Game 6, Kareem had 2-3 games in that series vs the Sixers alone with as much impact, if not more (when defense is considered) than Magic had in Game 6 (people forget Wilkes' performance in game 6 as well btw, who also had the best game of his career, but would anyone say he was more valuable during that series than Kareem?) Kareem was unstoppable on offense, he was the defensive anchor (5 freaking blocks a game) I wouldn't even say Magic created as many plays for his teammates as Kareem did in the half court, he was the clutchest player who won games in the 4th quarters for the Lakers...went down to injury in third quarter of game 5, came back in fourth quarter and made clutch shot after clutch shot in the last three minutes to secure the 3-2 lead. But that's not as heroic as Magic's performance because Kareem is a 7 footer who people don't relate with as much.

So I've done some research and apparently a few writers were apparently persuaded by CBS to change their vote in favor of Kareem's popular, charismatic teammate Magic Johnson.

http://oi44.tinypic.com/33kroqw.jpg

http://books.google.com/books?id=D0aqnXNYraAC&pg=PA140&img=1&pgis=1&dq=Bill+Livingston&sig=ACfU3U25vybyXOEBpvhba1uHQctFSBrSbw&edge=0

Bill Livingston publicly confessed that he and others changed votes to deny Kareem the award because CBS did not want to present to an empty chair.

This was during Kareem