If Kobe was born earlier and played with Pippen/Bulls and Jordan with Shaq/Lakers

[tgan3]

How will their legacy be affected?

Will Kobe be considered that GOAT then even over Magic/Bird like Jordan did? Will he succeed with Pippen and Rodman? How many rings?

Conversely, How many rings will Jordan get if he was born later and played with Shaq and the Lakers?

[westsideozzie]

How will their legacy be affected?

Will Kobe be considered that GOAT then even over Magic/Bird like Jordan did? Will he succeed with Pippen and Rodman? How many rings?

Conversely, How many rings will Jordan get if he was born later and played with Shaq and the Lakers?

Pippen would have never deferred to Kobe, because Kobe is a mitch ninja.

[Nashty]

Bulls would have 0 championships with Kobe as a 2nd best player behind Pippen. Lakers would have 10 championships and Jordan would have 10 FMVPs.

[Ne 1]

Assuming that Shaq/Jordan would have the same exact path that Kobe/Shaq did, I think they might win from 1999-2004, but Jordan could very well end up with 0 Finals MVPs.

'99 and '04 would be the only seasons that Jordan might have a shot at Finals MVP. Shaq was far too dominant against the Pacers, Sixers, and Nets front lines that they faced/would have faced from '00 to '03.

'04 is a big stretch too, because Shaq dominated offensively vs the Pistons while they completely shut down every perimeter player they faced.

So maybe Jordan gets one Finals MVP in '99 against the Knicks. Meanwhile, Kobe would likely have won 3-4 rings in the 1990's with Pippen/Grant, winning finals MVP each time.

Ultimately, Shaq would have 4-5+ Finals MVPs, Jordan 1-2, and Kobe 3-4. Kobe v. Jordan would be a legit argument (with more likely choosing Kobe as being better) and Shaq would be the consensus GOAT.

[kNicKz]

Both teams would win championships. Whatever team Jordan is on is the better team

[FiveRings]

How will their legacy be affected?

Will Kobe be considered that GOAT then even over Magic/Bird like Jordan did? Will he succeed with Pippen and Rodman? How many rings?

Conversely, How many rings will Jordan get if he was born later and played with Shaq and the Lakers?
It's hard to say.

Jordan would have been far harder on Shaq than Kobe was and would have slapped the shit out of lazy Shaq. Also, Shaq wouldn't want to be the second option and neither would MJ, so they would probably break up just like Kobe and Shaq did.

Kobe on the Bulls probably wins around 5.

[Dresta]

Assuming that Shaq/Jordan would have the same exact path that Kobe/Shaq did, I think they might win from 1999-2004, but Jordan could very well end up with 0 Finals MVPs.

'99 and '04 would be the only seasons that Jordan might have a shot at Finals MVP. Shaq was far too dominant against the Pacers, Sixers, and Nets front lines that they faced/would have faced from '00 to '03.

'04 is a big stretch too, because Shaq dominated offensively vs the Pistons while they completely shut down every perimeter player they faced.

So maybe Jordan gets one Finals MVP in '99 against the Knicks. Meanwhile, Kobe would likely have won 3-4 rings in the 1990's with Pippen/Grant, winning finals MVP each time.

Ultimately, Shaq would have 4-5+ Finals MVPs, Jordan 1-2, and Kobe 3-4. Kobe v. Jordan would be a legit argument (with more likely choosing Kobe as being better) and Shaq would be the consensus GOAT.So the precis of your argument is that Kobe stopped Shaq from being the GOAT?

[get these NETS]

Shaq had issues with penny and wade

problem wasn't kobe really


MJ had enough balls and toughness to co exist, even dominate shaq

I guarantee you that if shaq tried to beat up MJ....he would have had to kill him




also......MJ playued with scrub big men so going to basket and trying to score over 2-3 defenders rather than passing it to granville waiters made sense

[Foster5k]

No idea how many championships the Bulls would have won with Kobe instead of the G.O.A.T(Michael Jordan).

However, there is no doubt that MJ + Shaq would of dominated the league like no other force in basketball history. They probably would of won 12-13 championships.

People do not understand really. Kobe is an all time great player, but MJ was just on another level. Shaq would of respected Jordan from day one. You wouldn't have had Jordan + Shaq drama as you did with Kobe and Shaq. Jordan knew how to rub people the right way to get everything out of them.

As dominate as Shaq was, Jordan was a greater force.

[gengiskhan]

Bulls would have 0 championships with Kobe as a 2nd best player behind Pippen. Lakers would have 10 championships and Jordan would have 10 FMVPs.

This.

I see Pippen-Kobe combo same as LBJ-Wade combo.

They are just NOT complimentary players.

Pippen will be playing LBJs part: ball handling, playmaking, defending.
Kobe will be playing Wade part: scoring, scoring & only scoring.

What made Jordan-Pippen combo so DEADLY was they could play MULTIPLE ROLES.

Jordan in his ATHLETIC PEAK PRIME 1987-1993 played "3-guard" position too. :bowdown:
Thats point, off & small combined. :bowdown: :bowdown:


Pippen in his hay days 1992-1997 played "Point Forward", thats PG, SG, SG combined. :bowdown: :bowdown:

& both were on one team!!.

It created a serious match up problems to championship calibre teams.

Kobe will just be another Wade or Drexler or Dominique in btw 1980-1999.

[Nuff Said]

Kobe modeled his game heavily after Jordan. Jordan inspired Kobe. If their birthdates were switched Kobe wouldn't even be as effective as he was in our current timeline. MJ had a drive that was all his own. It's no doubt he'd have similar or better success with Shaq's Lakers. Shit maybe Shaq would've even stayed longer.

[CAstill]

No idea how many championships the Bulls would have won with Kobe instead of the G.O.A.T(Michael Jordan).

However, there is no doubt that MJ + Shaq would of dominated the league like no other force in basketball history. They probably would of won 12-13 championships.

People do not understand really. Kobe is an all time great player, but MJ was just on another level. Shaq would of respected Jordan from day one. You wouldn't have had Jordan + Shaq drama as you did with Kobe and Shaq. Jordan knew how to rub people the right way to get everything out of them.

As dominate as Shaq was, Jordan was a greater force.

You clearly didn't watch basketball and understood it. You're absolutely crazy if you think a fresh out of high school Jordan drafted thirteenth would become the first option over the key free agent acquisition that just made the finals and was already dominating the league that just happened to be a center. There would of been such a fat power struggle with Shaq and Jordan as soon as Jordan realized he was getting slighted on the credit for the titles ESPECIALLY if he does any Kobe type playoff series. Jordan wants to be the GOAT, Shaq wants to be GOAT, Kobe wants to be GOAT. Too many hands in the jar something has got to give. It was Shaq and he got the short end of the stick.

[JtotheIzzo]

I think things would have ended up differently, but they still would have won two of the first three title.

I think they would have won in 91(which was a cake walk), and 92 (The Blazers were paper tigers) but I think Phoenix would have won in 93. Michael was hell bent on f*ckin with Charles and they Bulls came out of the gates roaring. With Kobe not having that rivalry the Suns get off to a better start and win the series.

They would also win 2 of the first 3 post retirement titles (I will give the Jazz a championship in 1998 with Bulls losing to the Pacers in the ECF). The Pacers were the best team in the NBA that year, Jordan just willed them to win. F*ck that maybe the Pacers beat the Jazz too.

Winning 3 is tough, and doing it without Shaq is tougher.

4 out of 6 titles, certainly not bad, Kobe is the best guy to replace Jordan in this regard.

[Rasheed1]

Kobe modeled his game heavily after Jordan. Jordan inspired Kobe. If their birthdates were switched Kobe wouldn't even be as effective as he was in our current timeline. MJ had a drive that was all his own. It's no doubt he'd have similar or better success with Shaq's Lakers. Shit maybe Shaq would've even stayed longer.


stupid thread... but this is most legitimate answer to the OP question.

Kobe's whole identity was modeled after Mj so its impossible to know what kobe would have been if he didnt have Mj to look up to...

[KobesFinger]

Shaq had issues with penny and wade

problem wasn't kobe really


MJ had enough balls and toughness to co exist, even dominate shaq

I guarantee you that if shaq tried to beat up MJ....he would have had to kill him




also......MJ playued with scrub big men so going to basket and trying to score over 2-3 defenders rather than passing it to granville waiters made sense

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-11-18/sports/9104140692_1_phil-jackson-bill-cartwright-horace-grant

"He didn`t do or say anything to anybody until late that season, when he told Jordan he needed to talk to him.

There was little small talk exchanged. ``I don`t like the things I`ve heard you say about me,`` Cartwright told Jordan.

Jordan stared at him.

``If I ever hear again that you`re telling guys not to pass me the ball,`` Cartwright continued, ``you will never play basketball again.``

That was it. But as Cartwright began to move better after surgery following the 1989-90 season, Jordan began to accept him more."

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/03/as-teammates-robert-parish-and-michael.html

"In one of his first practices with the Bulls, Parish botched one of the plays and was amused to find Jordan jawing at him just inches from his face.

"I told him, 'I'm not as enamored with you as these other guys. I've got some rings too,' " Parish recalled. "At that point he told me, 'I'm going to kick your ass.' I took one step closer and said, 'No, you really aren't.' After that he didn't bother me.""

If MJ wasn't tough enough to not back down from Cartwright or the Chief, you think he'd be up in prime Shaq's face?

[CAstill]

stupid thread... but this is most legitimate answer to the OP question.

Kobe's whole identity was modeled after Mj so its impossible to know what kobe would have been if he didnt have Mj to look up to...

:facepalm

Yeah because Kobe wouldn't watch Dr.J, Magic and Bird right?

[Poetry]

Kobe would have been a completely different player.

Without Jordan as an example, Kobe would have drawn inspiration from another source and probably developed into more of Magic Johnson type of player.

That was the question early on, was he going to be like Mike, Magic or Grant Hill?

People knew that he could create his own shot, but his dismal shooting stretches made everyone wonder whether he could put up Jordan-like scoring numbers.

If he had never seen Jordan, it's likely he wouldn't have been so obsessed with carrying the scoring load every game.

So if he had developed into a Magic type, would he be able to coexist with Pippen? What type of player would Pippen be?

When MJ first came into the league, he was seen as the most talented player since the Big O, because he did everything well. He could handle the ball like a PG and had been occasionally playing SF as early as his rookie year.

Because mid-range shooters were so deadly in the 1980s, his shooting was seen as his weakness, even though it was more than respectable and downright deadly in its own right. He wouldn't necessarily have to be a scorer though.

With Shaq, i think Jordan would have played Big O to Shaq's Chamberlain. Probably trading Finals MVPs for a number of years.

Kobe would be a less effective scorer (fewer Jordanesque moves in his repertoire), but he would be a better all-around player. Though it's likely that Pippen would developed into a completely different player as well.

[Rasheed1]

:facepalm

Yeah because Kobe wouldn't watch Dr.J, Magic and Bird right?


Which one would he copy? :confusedshrug: like I said, its impossible to know what kobe would have been if he had come before Mj..

[Ne 1]

Which one would he copy? :confusedshrug: like I said, its impossible to know what kobe would have been if he had come before Mj..


"I built my talents on the shoulders of someone else's talent. I believe greatness is an evolutionary process that changes and evolves era to era. Without Julius Erving, David Thompson, Walter Davis, and Elgin Baylor there would never have been a Michael Jordan. I evolved from them." - Michael Jordan

[CAstill]

Which one would he copy? :confusedshrug: like I said, its impossible to know what kobe would have been if he had come before Mj..


I would think he does what he does now which is copy all 3. He takes elements from all the greats. It's what Jordan did and It's what Lebrons doing.

[Poetry]

"I built my talents on the shoulders of someone else's talent. I believe greatness is an evolutionary process that changes and evolves era to era. Without Julius Erving, David Thompson, Walter Davis, and Elgin Baylor there would never have been a Michael Jordan. I evolved from them." - Michael Jordan

He's being respectful. Keep in mind, Jordan didn't have the access to NBA footage other players had. He said it himself in his HOF speech:

"You know I came from Wimbleton; you know we had two channels, channel ABC and channel NBC, that was it. I never saw NBA sports at all when I grew up; we didn't have CBS affiliation in North Carolina in Wimbleton...."

[Rasheed1]

"I built my talents on the shoulders of someone else's talent. I believe greatness is an evolutionary process that changes and evolves era to era. Without Julius Erving, David Thompson, Walter Davis, and Elgin Baylor there would never have been a Michael Jordan. I evolved from them." - Michael Jordan


uh... that quote was from Mj, not kobe..

Michael Jordan was a huge step in the evolution of scorers. I was a bigtime DrJ fan back when he was leading the 6ers, but he wasnt Mj. Michael did alot of things that hadnt been done before, and brought a very different feel to the game than those other players..

Drj was classy and smooth.. But he didnt personify the focus and determination that Mj had.. Kobe is a player is modeled after Mj almost to an absurd degree.

he obviously studied michael.. The question is, who would be like if he didnt have Michael to model himself after? that is impossible to tell

[Nash]

I said it before and I say it again, if Jordan had prime Shaq his first 7 years in the league, he'd have more championships than Bill Russell by now. That's why the comparisons between him and Kobe are ridiculous.

[Rasheed1]

I would think he does what he does now which is copy all 3. He takes elements from all the greats. It's what Jordan did and It's what Lebrons doing.


he has no Magic Johnson in him...Magic was team leader, a floor general who made everyone better..Magic used to always say "I can control the game without scoring a point" ... That is not kobe's mindset at all....Maybe he is cocky like Bird, but he doesnt play like Bird did..

Kobe is a scorer.. He used to even go out of his way to talk, walk and act like Mj.. He stopped doing that after he got criticized for it, but it is obvious who he draws his game from

[K Xerxes]

The reason why these hypotheticals are so stupid is because virtually every scenario or situation would have been different, including how they would have been when they grew up with different role models or idols. It's completely unknowable how they both would have modelled their game or reacted to the different situations.

All I need to know is that Michael was better than Kobe as it stands. Throw enough variables and what ifs and maybe a ISH poster could have been GOAT. These threads are always ridiculous.

[Ne 1]

Kobe modeled his game heavily after Jordan.


Expect Kobe doesn't really play like Jordan at all.

Jordan was a "quick-strike" type of player. Kobe is much more crafty, and is more of a shooter. He plays a lot more like prime T-Mac than he does Jordan.

If Bryant wanted to copy MJ's game as much as people think, then he wouldn't have bothered developing a 3 point shot. He wouldn't be shooting from deep, ever. He wouldn't take all those difficult shots and he would attack the basket more frequently.

[CAstill]

he has no Magic Johnson in him...Magic was team leader, a floor general who made everyone better..Magic used to always say "I can control the game without scoring a point" ... That is not kobe's mindset at all....Maybe he is cocky like Bird, but he doesnt play like Bird did..

Kobe is a scorer.. He used to even go out of his way to talk, walk and act like Mj.. He stopped doing that after he got criticized for it, but it is obvious who he draws his game from

You're talking about the actual and not the hypothetical. Would you not agree that if Kobe came into the league in 85 he would of modeled his game after someone successful in the league? I mean everyone does right? I just feel like he would of drew from the greats and had more of their game resemblance since Jordan wasn't their to inspire from.

[Ne 1]

He used to even go out of his way to talk, walk and act like Mj.. He stopped doing that after he got criticized for it

[citation needed]

[diamenz]

it's one thing to create your own game from past greats like mike did with the doc, but kobe just straight up copied mike without deviation.

[Rasheed1]

You're talking about the actual and not the hypothetical. Would you not agree that if Kobe came into the league in 85 he would of modeled his game after someone successful in the league? I mean everyone does right? I just feel like he would of drew from the greats and had more of their game resemblance since Jordan wasn't their to inspire from.


Like I originally said, of course he would model himself after someone, but who?

It is so hypothetical, that its kind of a silly question to consider..

Depending on who he modeled himself after, and what his disposition was? The Bulls might have 0 rings with kobe.. Someone needed to be there to mold Pippen like Jordan did. Could Kobe do it? what would pippen become?

then again he might have won a few with those bulls :confusedshrug: it all depends on so many factors, that it is impossible to speculate on something like that.

Same with Jordan on the Lakers.. People feel they would win 10 titles, but it is a huge question as to how Mj and Shaq mesh and also what would Phil's legacy be after coaching kobe on bulls? what if he doesnt do as well with kobe? does he become laker's coach and have that much prestige with Mj and shaq?

waay too many factors

[CAstill]

Like I originally said, of course he would model himself after someone, but who?

It is so hypothetical, that its kind of a silly question to consider..

Depending on who he modeled himself after, and what his disposition was? The Bulls might have 0 rings with kobe.. Someone needed to be there to mold Pippen like Jordan did. Could Kobe do it? what would pippen become?

then again he might have won a few with those bulls :confusedshrug: it all depends on so many factors, that it is impossible to speculate on something like that.

Same with Jordan on the Lakers.. People feel they would win 10 titles, but it is a huge question as to how Mj and Shaq mesh and also what would Phil's legacy be after coaching kobe on bulls? what if he doesnt do as well with kobe? does he become laker's coach and have that much prestige with Mj and shaq?

waay too many factors

No i totally agree impossible to tell but Kobe's M.O. doesn't change ever. GOAT is the only objective regardless of time period.

[longtime lurker]

Kobe would be looked at more favourably Jordan would be looked at like Magic is now. A GOAT player but not the GOAT player

[tpols]

he has no Magic Johnson in him...Magic was team leader, a floor general who made everyone better..Magic used to always say "I can control the game without scoring a point" ... That is not kobe's mindset at all....Maybe he is cocky like Bird, but he doesnt play like Bird did..

Kobe is a scorer.. He used to even go out of his way to talk, walk and act like Mj.. He stopped doing that after he got criticized for it, but it is obvious who he draws his game from
Phil talks about how kobe had to play the facilitator role coming onto the Lakers at first as one of the biggest differences between his and MJ's situations entering the league...

Of course he wanted to score also and that became a big issue with him trying to outscore shaq later in their tenure together..

But kobe has said repeatedly he admired magics game and took notes from it while balling in high school and early years in the league.

We saw kobe go into 'facilitator mode' just this year when he posted a month or so averaging 8-9 assists.. He knows how to do it and would possibly fully be willing to do it if not for the iso scoring craze mj created with his career.

[Rasheed1]

Phil talks about how kobe had to play the facilitator role coming onto the Lakers at first as one of the biggest differences between his and MJ's situations entering the league...

Of course he wanted to score also and that became a big issue with him trying to outscore shaq later in their tenure together..

But kobe has said repeatedly he admired magics game and took notes from it while balling in high school and early years in the league.

We saw kobe go into 'facilitator mode' just this year when he posted a month or so averaging 8-9 assists.. He knows how to do it and would possibly fully be willing to do it if not for the iso scoring craze mj created with his career.

I dont dispute that kobe can facilitate when he wants to.. but that isnt his game.. He isnt like Magic at all..

Magic was a triple double machine. he had like 30 triple doubles in playoffs alone.. Kobe can do alot of things, he has always been talented, but he doesnt play the game the way Magic did...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:facepalm

Yeah because Kobe wouldn't watch Dr.J, Magic and Bird right?

Why does this bother you so much? :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

I dont dispute that kobe can facilitate when he wants to.. but that isnt his game.. He isnt like Magic at all..

Magic was a triple double machine. he had like 30 triple doubles in playoffs alone.. Kobe can do alot of things, he has always been talented, but he doesnt play the game the way Magic did...
Not saying he would've been a 20+/12/7 type player like magic but he could've had a finesse penny type game slightly more geared towards playmaking 25+/7+..

[CAstill]

Why does this bother you so much? :confusedshrug:

It's not like it makes me mad or something but it's not like Kobe would just disappear and not model his game after whoever was considered GOAT.

[LLK21]

Not saying he would've been a 20+/12/7 type player like magic but he could've had a finesse penny type game slightly more geared towards playmaking 25+/7+..
So he would become Lebron except he wouldn't grab as many rebounds.

[tpols]

So he would become Lebron except he wouldn't grab as many rebounds.
Less ball dominance, better off ball play so his teammates could get more shine in half court play. He would facilitate not just throw last second assists.

Like a less injury prone, more skilled prime grant hill

[ProfessorMurder]

If Kobe played on those Bulls teams, the Knicks win 2-3 titles.

If MJ played on the Lakers, you're looking at Russell-esque championship numbers.

[Dragonyeuw]

I really don't see Jordan and Shaq coexisting. Someone has to subjugate themselves so that there is an established pecking order. Do you really see either of those two deferring to the other over a long period? It didn't happen with Shaq and Kobe, and I don't see where it would have happened with Shaq and Jordan. Two dominant personalities, two different work ethics. Can't see it working....

Also, with the Kobe-Pippen duo, who came into the league first? Jordan was the established alpha, took Pippen under his wing and was able to help mold Pip's natural talent into the player he became. But simply swapping MJ with Kobe due to being similar on-court players doesn't guarantee that Kobe forms the same kind of rapport with Pip.

[ConanRulesNBC]

As great as Kobe is I just don't see Kobe leading the Bulls past some of the teams back then. Maybe he'd win against the Sonics in '96 and maybe one of the Jazz teams. But I think he'd lose to the Lakers in '91, Suns in '93, Blazers in '92 and one of those Jazz teams... probably in '98. I think Kobe would end up with 2 championships. Jordan & Shaq would dominate. But yeah Shaq would get a lot of the credit still. But Jordan & Shaq would dominate way more than Kobe & Shaq together.

Edit: Also, yeah I forgot how good the East was back then. I was just assuming they'd make it to the finals. I don't think a Kobe led Bulls team in the '90s even make it to the finals as much as a Jordan led Bulls team. I mean the 2004 Pistons shut Kobe down. Kobe would absolutely have trouble against the Knicks, Magic and Pacers in the '90s.

[tpols]

I really don't see Jordan and Shaq coexisting. Someone has to subjugate themselves so that there is an established pecking order. Do you really see either of those two deferring to the other over a long period? It didn't happen with Shaq and Kobe, and I don't see where it would have happened with Shaq and Jordan. Two dominant personalities, two different work ethics. Can't see it working....

Also, with the Kobe-Pippen duo, who came into the league first? Jordan was the established alpha, took Pippen under his wing and was able to help mold Pip's natural talent into the player he became. But simply swapping MJ with Kobe due to being similar on-court players doesn't guarantee that Kobe forms the same kind of rapport with Pip.
The impression I get is that the league didn't have have this 'the man' bs until after and during MJ's reign.

So I don't see pip and kobe fighting with each other for dominance. They would just ball like every other team less iso focused like it is today.

And if MJ had to deal with 'the man' stigma following him around while playing with shaq there could definitely be a rift. Especially since shaq was known to be lazy, non serious guy outside of games while Jordan was cut throat, hard working etc

[Lakers2877]

While it sounds good on the surface, if you think Kobe grew tired of Shaq being lazy, imagine how pissed off Jordan would be.

[branslowski]

Kobe modeled his game heavily after Jordan. Jordan inspired Kobe. If their birthdates were switched Kobe wouldn't even be as effective as he was in our current timeline. MJ had a drive that was all his own. It's no doubt he'd have similar or better success with Shaq's Lakers. Shit maybe Shaq would've even stayed longer.

:facepalm

[branslowski]

Kobe would be 6/6 aswell...One of the greatest scorers and on ball defenders ever in Kobe..And Kobe won with Gasols 18ppg 8reb and soft mentality..Kobe would love a Pippen on his team puttin up 22ppg 9reb 6ast and ultimate baller...Sh!t would be scary..And Kobe loves basketball, so he won't retire multiple times on the league...He and Pippen possibly could have been a 8 title winnin duo.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe would be 6/6 aswell...One of the greatest scorers and on ball defenders ever in Kobe..And Kobe won with Gasols 18ppg 8reb and soft mentality..Kobe would love a Pippen on his team puttin up 22ppg 9reb 6ast and ultimate baller...Sh!t would be scary..And Kobe loves basketball, so he won't retire multiple times on the league...He and Pippen possibly could have been a 8 title winnin duo.

Pure trolling.

[branslowski]

Pure trolling.
Not even, just the fact that Kobe was a f*cking amazing player...Pippen led the Bulls to the ECF without Jordan before, could of been the finals if a few plays went different...Bulls were already great, Kobe would of kept them on that path easily...

But I digress, seems some ppl like to give their opinion on wat would happen paradise, but the minute someone thinks both players would dominate, its a problem..:rolleyes:

By the way, I don't even have to say nething about Jordan because I know he would of won atleast 7 with Shaq. Both Kobe and Jordan were amazing all time greats..

[ispin69]

Pippen would have outplayed Kobe. Kobe would then have tried to get him traded. Knicks would have won some, Hakeem's rockets would have won more rings.

Once Jordan and Shaq team up, 8-10 rings EASILY.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not even, just the fact that Kobe was a f*cking amazing player...Pippen led the Bulls to the ECF without Jordan before, could of been the finals if a few plays went different...Bulls were already great, Kobe would of kept them on that path easily...

But I digress, seems some ppl like to give their opinion on wat would happen paradise, but the minute someone thinks both players would dominate, its a problem..:rolleyes:

By the way, I don't even have to say nething about Jordan because I know he would of won atleast 7 with Shaq. Both Kobe and Jordan were amazing all time greats..

I don't doubt Kobe would dominate. Historically, he very well could've been considered "greater" - but lets not pretend it didn't take some of the absolute GOAT performances (of any player..EVER) by Jordan for the Bulls to advance in the playoffs and/or win championships.

No version of Kobe is gonna waltz into a Bulls uniform and duplicate PEAK MJ production. C'mon son. :oldlol:

[tpols]

Pure trolling.
I don't think 4ish is out of the question assuming he plays 94-95 and weak 99 season..

Jordan would've rifted with Shaq but came back stronger than ever probably ending with the same amount he got with the Bulls.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe would be 6/6 aswell...One of the greatest scorers and on ball defenders ever in Kobe..And Kobe won with Gasols 18ppg 8reb and soft mentality..Kobe would love a Pippen on his team puttin up 22ppg 9reb 6ast and ultimate baller...Sh!t would be scary..And Kobe loves basketball, so he won't retire multiple times on the league...He and Pippen possibly could have been a 8 title winnin duo.

Kobe would win 3-4 titles in those same 6 seasons that Jordan won. lol @ the idea that he would win all 6. :oldlol:

[gengiskhan]

Pure trolling.

no doubt.

He is 5/7 now.

He'll guarantee 0/6 in '90s. :lol :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't think 4ish is out of the question assuming he plays 94-95 and weak 99 season..

Jordan would've rifted with Shaq but came back stronger than ever probably ending with the same amount he got with the Bulls.

1991, 1996, and 1997 are the championships Kobe & co. would most likely win.

4 isn't out of the question, just not very likely, imo.

[branslowski]

I don't doubt Kobe would dominate. Historically, he very well could've been considered "greater" - but lets not pretend it didn't take some of the absolute GOAT performances (of any player..EVER) by Jordan for the Bulls to advance in the playoffs and/or win championships.

No version of Kobe is gonna waltz into a Bulls uniform and duplicate PEAK MJ production. C'mon son. :oldlol:

The blind:facepalm

This doesn't mean Kobe is better, but Pippen led them to the ECF, with Kobe, they win them all, no slight to Jordan...I doubt Kobe would have won multiple regular season MVPs like Jordan, nor would he have as many scoring titles as Jordan. Jordans better, not taking that away from you and his fellow children, just speaking the obvious truth that everyone who doesn't have a personal slight against a player can see.

[K Xerxes]

I don't think 4ish is out of the question assuming he plays 94-95 and weak 99 season..

Jordan would've rifted with Shaq but came back stronger than ever probably ending with the same amount he got with the Bulls.

I'm not even sure Chicago would have beaten '95 Rockets if Jordan didn't go play baseball. They don't really have a shot with Kobe instead.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe would win 3-4 titles in those same 6 seasons that Jordan won. lol @ the idea that he would win all 6. :oldlol:

pure trolling. :lol

Kobe = Drexler = Dominique.

Kobe's body aint cut out for 1990s physical wear & tear.

2004 kobe had Shoulder Surgery!.

He aint getting to NBA finals at all. You needed GRIND OUT guys with efficiency to get to NBA Finals.

if not, you'll be swept out by the conference semis.

MJ, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Rodman, Ewing, Miller, Mourning did not fool around in conf. semis & ECF.

Kobe's best shot is west conf. But he'll still wont get to NBA finals due to chucking & inefficiency.

[tpols]

pure trolling. :lol

Kobe = Drexler = Dominique.

Kobe's body aint cut out for 1990s physical wear & tear.

2004 kobe had Shoulder Surgery!.

He aint getting to NBA finals at all. You needed GRIND OUT guys with efficiency to get to NBA Finals.

if not, you'll be swept out by the conference semis.

MJ, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Rodman, Ewing, Miller, Mourning did not fool around in conf. semis & ECF.

Kobe's best shot is west conf. But he'll still wont get to NBA finals due to chucking & inefficiency.
A lot of Kobe's 'chucking mentality' came out of his insecurities getting no credit when he was averaging 25/5+/5+ with shaq winning titles..

He probably wouldn't be gunning as hard playing with an unselfish jack of all trades type player in pippen..

Wouldn't expect your trolling ass to understand though lol

[branslowski]

pure trolling. :lol

Kobe = Drexler = Dominique.

Kobe's body aint cut out for 1990s physical wear & tear.

2004 kobe had Shoulder Surgery!.

He aint getting to NBA finals at all. You needed GRIND OUT guys with efficiency to get to NBA Finals.

if not, you'll be swept out by the conference semis.

MJ, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Rodman, Ewing, Miller, Mourning did not fool around in conf. semis & ECF.

Kobe's best shot is west conf. But he'll still wont get to NBA finals due to chucking & inefficiency.

Kobes body wasn't cut out for the 90's? But Isiah, Bird, and dominiques was?:wtf:

His chucking and inefficiency? When Jordan won multiple titles shooting under 45% himself?:wtf:

Kobe can win with Gasols 18-8, but not Pippens 22-9-6?
:biggums:

Lol, yawl got it...Jordans wife says MJ loves it wen she swallows, so theres some positive advice for you guys who like to slurp him.

[gengiskhan]

A lot of Kobe's 'chucking mentality' came out of his insecurities getting no credit when he was averaging 25/5+/5+ with shaq winning titles..

He probably wouldn't be gunning as hard playing with an unselfish jack of all trades type player in pippen..

Wouldn't expect your trolling ass to understand though lol

If you thinks Pip wont have problem with Kobe telling hims "just get the rebounds"

think again.

Pippen loved MJ cuz MJ decided to completely play off the ball. Pippen became the primary decision maker & play maker

Kobe can NEVER play off the ball. He wont be able to have 23 FGA.

Pippen had a big mouth. he'll destroy kobe in media, press, ESPN etc for ball hogging & chucking.

Guys like kobe, AI are born chuckers. They are volume scorers & they get there by bulk FGAs.

[ispin69]

MJ's fadeaway was automatic, probably 50-60% at least. That was his signature along with the drives to the hoop and the crazy and1's.

Kobe's signature? 3 point shots from 3 feet behind the 3 point line. Even then that's a 35-40% made shot. :facepalm

[tpols]

If you thinks Pip wont have problem with Kobe telling hims "just get the rebounds"

think again.

Pippen loved MJ cuz MJ decided to completely play off the ball. Pippen became the primary decision maker & play maker

Kobe can NEVER play off the ball. He wont be able to have 23 FGA.

Pippen had a big mouth. he'll destroy kobe in media, press, ESPN etc for ball hogging & chucking.

Guys like kobe, AI are born chuckers. They are volume scorers & they get there by bulk FGAs.
You're literally retarded

[gengiskhan]

Kobes body wasn't cut out for the 90's? But Isiah, Bird, and dominiques was?:wtf:

His chucking and inefficiency? When Jordan won multiple titles shooting under 45% himself?:wtf:

Kobe can win with Gasols 18-8, but not Pippens 22-9-6?
:biggums:

Lol, yawl got it...Jordans wife says MJ loves it wen she swallows, so theres some positive advice for you guys who like to slurp him.

Jordan shot 48%FG average in Finals when compeitition is at its APEX!

Kobe shot 45%FG average in Reg Sea. when compeititon is at its WEAKEST!

no comparison there.

Pippen flourished & improved under Jordan. a reason why he got to 22/9/6.

With Kobe, Pippen will go the Bynum & D-12 way. underperforming, frequently complaining about kobe chucking, ballhogging. not getting enough touches.

dont forget. Pippen was a huge complainer!. He hated many things.

First thing he's gonna hate is Kobe's SALARY! :lol :lol :lol :roll:

Problem with kobe making 27+ million will kill pippen inside leading to a walk out or forcing a trade :lol :lol

[branslowski]

A bunch of trolling bullsh!t talkin, while not even answering factual points branslowski made.]

Basically, you a dumbass. Ignored.

[INDI]

We would be pissed off/ obsessing with jordan for stealing Kobes moves.

Ultimately this would hurt Jordan more than Kobe. Thebulls would win about 5 rings, kobe would have about 3 mvps and knocking on kareems door for alltime scoring leader.

jordan would either stayed a second option until it was his turn, or he wouldve left in free agency. I do believe that he would have 4-5 rings had this been the path but kobe would be considered the better career

[Dragonyeuw]

The impression I get is that the league didn't have have this 'the man' bs until after and during MJ's reign.

So I don't see pip and kobe fighting with each other for dominance. They would just ball like every other team less iso focused like it is today.




I wasn't suggesting that Kobe and Pip would fight over who 'the man' would be. For one thing, Pippen had alpha-talent but was more of a beta type personality. He did many things well, but he was more a complementary scorer than a guy who could say 'fcuk it, give me the ball and get outta the way' like Jordan and Kobe. He was more of a glue guy, did the little things that didn't always show up in the stat sheets.

But, my main point was he can't assume he and Kobe would naturally form the same chemistry. I'm not saying they'd fight, but it's no guarantee that he forms the same on-court syergy with Kobe that he had with Jordan.

Another point that I don't recall seeing yet in this thread, if we're using the logic that Kobe came into the league before MJ, what kind of player would he have been without using Jordan as the blueprint? And taking that to its logical conclusion, what kind of player would MJ have been?

[Flash31]

Ok lets say you switch Jordan and Kobe
MJ is 18,Kobe 21
mj drafted by lakers,kobe bulls

ok
the Bulls would have won 1-2 championships
in 93-98

Kobe is not the defender,playmaker,or as efficient
as MJ
and even with MJ the Pistons beat them over and over,they beat det in 6,7
and the Jazz lost in 6,7 games
and it took a buzzer beater from it going 7,
the suns,rockets,knicks and pacers were extremely tightly contested
if starks made his shots at the end the bulls would have 5,not 6

and two MJ had a horrible team from 85-89 and then
the next two Det beat them
Kobe demanded help or to be traded after 2 years of failure,imagine 5
and since Kobe copied MJ and there was no mj yet,hed played probably more to
gervin,Drexler,Most likely Like J Irving

[tpols]

I wasn't suggesting that Kobe and Pip would fight over who 'the man' would be. For one thing, Pippen had alpha-talent but was more of a beta type personality. He did many things well, but he was more a complementary scorer than a guy who could say 'fcuk it, give me the ball and get outta the way' like Jordan and Kobe. He was more of a glue guy, did the little things that didn't always show up in the stat sheets.

But, my main point was he can't assume he and Kobe would naturally form the same chemistry. I'm not saying they'd fight, but it's no guarantee that he forms the same on-court syergy with Kobe that he had with Jordan.

Another point that I don't recall seeing yet in this thread, if we're using the logic that Kobe came into the league before MJ, what kind of player would he have been without using Jordan as the blueprint? And taking that to its logical conclusion, what kind of player would MJ have been?
Kobe has said he looked up to magic Johnson as a kid too and played some of that game when he was in high school. He would've modeled his game off another great before MJ.. Dr J Baylor west any of them.

He would have had a penny Hardaway type game except better and longer career wise. Not as good as Jordan but the best SG and perimeter player in the league from 90ish to 2000.. He put up 27/5/5 this year which would've been what 2002 in place of the Bulls?

And I wouldn't call pippen a beta type player.. He just adjusts his game to fit the system. Like water he can fill different shapes, so he would be fine with Kobe. They would also come up together instead of Kobe being ahead of him like MJ was since kobe took a few years to adjust out of HS.

Pippen probably would've been seen as more 1a/1b with Kobe after their run was over although Kobe's superior longevity would lead to a better career numbers.

[305Baller]

Kobe would have merged with Tim Hardaway. Not on the court but genetically, creating the "Killer Crossing Mamba".

[gengiskhan]

Kobe would have merged with Tim Hardaway. Not on the court but genetically, creating the "Killer Crossing Mamba".

this "merging" would've created a 6'3" kobe!

tim hardaway was barely 6'0" with short wingspan!

I dunno whats worse for Kobe. loosing 3" & getting shorter wingspan

or getting "killer crossover"

[Flash31]

MJ and Shaq would have won at least 10 straight
or lets say shaq leaves in 05 so 7 straight

MJ was a better scorer,defender,playmaker,leader,more efficient than Kobe was

There would be no 04 Chuckfest costing the team and they win in 05

Jordan would have started off the bench like Kobe
but would put up stats and would be the starter by the end of the year or next

two While Kobe is the opposite of a team player
and the team wins in spite of Kobe,MJ was a grwat teammate and
the team won with his help,MJ would have deferred to Shaq the first couple of years but would take over in the 4th

MJ would probably have 3-4 finals MVPS and 6-7 Championships

Kobe avg 25,5,5 during the 3 peat,Jordan would have done better

They wouldnt be 1-2 punch theyll be the two headed monster
Shaq would have EVEN more points and MJ would force other teams to double him
so the lakers would have feasted,they also
wouldve most likely held the greatest single season record

MJ went through Drexler,Miller,Payton,Stockton,Ewing,Barkley,Detro it
and other great teams and defenders
and he won

Kobe shot 34% in the 04 finals,and outshot Shaq

To MJ,winning is all that matters while being the best

Youd have people debating who Goat is Shaq or MJ

It wouldnt be fair,MJ won with Pippen+ Rodman,or Grant
and defenders and shooters against great teams and Centers
with Longley as C

During Shaqs reigns there were less great c,Shaq was num 1,
There werent any amazing d teams besides the Pistons
that compare to the previous ones and MJ and
Shaq would each have a mismatch Every time
and would feast

[gengiskhan]

Basically, you a dumbass. Ignored.

Your retarded a55 was owned in 2 secs when I pointed out the 48%FG vs 45%FG difference!

You were OWNED in no time!

I was going easy on you!

Kobe's for NBA Finals shot 41%FG.

There is a 7%FG difference btw Jordan & Kobe.

[Nevaeh]

While it sounds good on the surface, if you think Kobe grew tired of Shaq being lazy, imagine how pissed off Jordan would be.

Shaq's "lazy play" led to a 3-peat, and Finals appearances for 2 other franchises as well. Plus, nobody can ever accuse Shaq of "not showing up" for any of his finals appearance either. I'm sure MJ would have learned to live with "lazy ole' Shaq" just fine.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

2 separate 5 peats for this duo, depending on how motivated they stayed while playing together, and if the league (and fan interest) stayed high enough while watching them.

2000-2004
2007-2011

[tpols]

Shaq's "lazy play" led to a 3-peat, and Finals appearances for 2 other franchises as well. Plus, nobody can ever accuse Shaq of "not showing up" for any of his finals appearance either. I'm sure MJ would have learned to live with "lazy ole' Shaq" just fine.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

2 separate 5 peats for this duo, depending on how motivated they stayed while playing together, and if the league (and fan interest) stayed high enough while watching them.

2000-2004
2007-2011
What?? Shaq was beyond washed up by 08-09ish.. What a joke post. 2011 lol

[Duncan21formvp]

Shaq had issues with penny and wade

problem wasn't kobe really


MJ had enough balls and toughness to co exist, even dominate shaq

I guarantee you that if shaq tried to beat up MJ....he would have had to kill him




also......MJ playued with scrub big men so going to basket and trying to score over 2-3 defenders rather than passing it to granville waiters made sense

Shaq had issues with players younger than him and not as good as him giving them the reins. In this case MJ is older and better, so that changes things for Shaq.

[MJ23forever]

Shaq's "lazy play" led to a 3-peat, and Finals appearances for 2 other franchises as well.
[

Stop it man...Shaq was lazy!

Sure he had natural gifts but he's undoubtedly lazy. And was a horrible pick and roll defender, even in his prime. What the defining characteristic of pick and roll defense? Toughness and tenacity. He was neither, sucked at it, thus showing the laziness!

He could have been the GOAT if he had MJ's insane dedication and work ethic.

[Nevaeh]

Shaq had issues with players younger than him and not as good as him giving them the reins. In this case MJ is older and better, so that changes things for Shaq.

Key words right here. This league has seen plenty of guys not as good as they thought they were, or stayed injury prone. Shaq wouldn't have that problem with MJ. Fans would have the ultimate finesse game/ power game dynamic night after night with these 2 playing together.

[Heavincent]

What?? Shaq was beyond washed up by 08-09ish.. What a joke post. 2011 lol

Yeah I was about to say. Shaq was a shell of his former self by 07 or so. He could barely get up and down the court in 2010 and 11.

[Nevaeh]

Stop it man...Shaq was lazy!

Sure he had natural gifts but he's undoubtedly lazy. And was a horrible pick and roll defender, even in his prime. What the defining characteristic of pick and roll defense? Toughness and tenacity. He was neither, sucked at it, thus showing the laziness!

He could have been the GOAT if he had MJ's insane dedication and work ethic.

"Lazy" players don't get to the finals 6 times in their careers, winning 3 straight in the process. I've watched Shaq play plenty, and "Lazy" simply doesn't fit his overall legacy arch, sorry. If Shaq's "lazy", then this League has had some lazy muthaf@ckas in it for a looonnnggg time then.

[Soundwave]

If "Shaq" existed on the Bulls at the same time as Jordan came into the league, I think they'd start winning titles by the 87-88 season and probably just steamroll the league for the next 10 years.

Bird's back was starting to give him issues by '88 and Kareem was on his last legs by then too.

The Pistons wouldn't be able to bully around Jordan with Shaq in the paint causing havoc.

How would you even defend that team? You can't double both of them.

[tpols]

"Lazy" players don't get to the finals 6 times in their careers, winning 3 straight in the process. I've watched Shaq play plenty, and "Lazy" simply doesn't fit his overall legacy arch, sorry. If Shaq's "lazy", then this League has had some lazy muthaf@ckas in it for a looonnnggg time then.
Um when they have the physical gifts of Shaqquille O'Neal they most certainly can be lazy and still win. There is documentation of Shaqs non serious attitude off the court, laziness in practice, coming into camp out of shape etc. Everyone knows that the game came super easy to him and he didn't need to work on his game like other goat players with inferior physical tools.

What are you on dude? You just said MJ would win with a retired 2011 shaq.. Like seriously?

[gengiskhan]

If "Shaq" existed on the Bulls at the same time as Jordan came into the league, I think they'd start winning titles by the 87-88 season and probably just steamroll the league for the next 10 years.

How would you even defend that team?

& then we would hear....

MJ's can never win a ring without a DOMINANT BIG MAN.

MJ could never team up with PERIMETER talent like Pippen & kobe & Drexler & win a championships.

Shaq carrying midgit MJ to NBA finals & MJ is collecting FMVPs & rings.

[Soundwave]

& then we would hear....

MJ's can never win a ring without a DOMINANT BIG MAN.

MJ could never team up with PERIMETER talent like Pippen & kobe & Drexler & win a championships.

Shaq carrying midgit MJ to NBA finals & MJ is collecting FMVPs & rings.

Not really because none of those paradigms would exist. NBA history would be completely different.

I personally don't think Scott Pippen from Arkansas becomes THE Scottie Pippen without Jordan pushing him in practice and all that came with it.

Scottie was a pretty fragile kid when he first came into the league, his development in Chicago basically had to go exactly the way it did.

Nice trolling attempt though.

[chazzy]

What?? Shaq was beyond washed up by 08-09ish.. What a joke post. 2011 lol
:roll:

[Nevaeh]

Um when they have the physical gifts of Shaqquille O'Neal they most certainly can be lazy and still win. There is documentation of Shaqs non serious attitude off the court, laziness in practice, coming into camp out of shape etc. Everyone knows that the game came super easy to him and he didn't need to work on his game like other goat players with inferior physical tools.

What are you on dude? You just said MJ would win with a retired 2011 shaq.. Like seriously?

Maybe he wouldn't have had to retire, being that he wouldn't have had to carry the load so much, playing alongside MJ. Look how Magic reinvigorated KAJ's career, when he was ready to hang it up.

[chazzy]

Maybe he wouldn't have had to retire, being that he wouldn't have had to carry the load so much, playing alongside MJ. Look how Magic reinvigorated KAJ's career, when he was ready to hang it up.
http://www.dailystab.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/shaq.jpg

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe was surrounded with a great defensive squad once in his career.

His team went 16-1 in the playoffs.

Kobe turned Smush Parker, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown into a top ten offense in his prime.

Give Kobe elite defense, great shooters and a decent #2 and hes a contender every year.

[tpols]

Maybe he wouldn't have had to retire, being that he wouldn't have had to carry the load so much, playing alongside MJ. Look how Magic reinvigorated KAJ's career, when he was ready to hang it up.
Kareem was tall skinny finesse.

Shaq was probably the heaviest n!gga on earth in 2011

[Nevaeh]

Kobe was surrounded with a great defensive squad once in his career.

Shaq's team went 16-1 in the playoffs.

Kobe turned Smush Parker, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown into a top ten offense in his prime.

Give Kobe elite defense, great shooters and a decent #2 and hes a contender every year.

They sure did. Won finals MVP as well.

[Nevaeh]

http://www.dailystab.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/shaq.jpg

I thought we were assuming that Shaq would remain a Laker until retirement in this thread, along with, you know, playing alongside MJ?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Yao Ming's Foot]

They sure did. Won finals MVP as well.

29.4 ppg/ 7.3 reb/6.1 apg :confusedshrug:

[Soundwave]

That is one thing about MJ, I don't think he'd tolerate Shaq getting too fat. He'd grill his ass about that, but MJ could do that in a way where his teammates were still behind him.

Kobe and Shaq personality wise just didn't mix, because Kobe had kind of a weird anti-social thing going on and I think Shaq took that as an insult.

[Heavincent]

Maybe he wouldn't have had to retire, being that he wouldn't have had to carry the load so much, playing alongside MJ. Look how Magic reinvigorated KAJ's career, when he was ready to hang it up.

:roll:

When did Shaq ever have to carry a team? He was surrounded by elite perimeter players throughout his career. People always talk about Kobe having such great front courts, but Shaq had even more help throughout his career. He had a top 10 player ever by his side for 3 of his rings, and a top 5 SG ever for his other ring. And prime Penny Hardaway early in his career.

Not to mention the guys he played with later in his career. Steve Nash, Lebron, KG, Paul Pierce and Rondo. Feels like Shaq played alongside almost every great player of the 2000's :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

If you switched careers....really tough to say.

MJ definitely has less finals mvps and regulars season mvps in my opinion...but not sure how many less. I'd say he probably finishes with 8 titles.

Kobe finishes with 2 or 3 titles and 2 or 3 mvps. Just don't see Kobe beating the Suns in 93, Sonics in 96, or the Jazz in 98...assuming they make it to the finals.

[chazzy]

I thought we were assuming that Shaq would remain a Laker until retirement in this thread, along with, you know, playing alongside MJ?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Just showing you how fat he was in 2011

[branslowski]

29.4 ppg/ 7.3 reb/6.1 apg :confusedshrug:

Naw bruh, 18ppg 8reb> 29ppg 7reb 6ast, according to ISH, you ain't heard?

[Leviathon1121]

29.4 ppg/ 7.3 reb/6.1 apg :confusedshrug:

It was Shaq's team. and it will always be viewed as Shaq's team by 95% of the basketball viewing poplation no matter how many posts you make, how angry does that make you?

[Rasheed1]

Jordan didnt berate players because of they were fat or lazy (in his opinion)... Jordan berated players because they didnt PRODUCE to his expectations. I personally dont think Mj would have a problem with Shaq's production. Jordan might have had a problem with being #2.. I dont know because he never played with a player as dominant as he was...

But people saying he would have a problem with Shaq because he was supposedly fat or lazy? I think that is nonsense.. Shaq destroyed opponents when he was a Laker and that is all Mj ever cared about.. He hated guys who were tall and big and didnt produce.. Shaq produced

[Yao Ming's Foot]

It was Shaq's team. and it will always be viewed as Shaq's team by 95% of the basketball viewing poplation no matter how many posts you make, how angry does that make you?

Delusional internet posters on the internet don't anger me. :confusedshrug:

[Nevaeh]

29.4 ppg/ 7.3 reb/6.1 apg :confusedshrug:

Why no FG% or PER?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/confusedshrug.gif

Those are just numbers on a screen, until we see how they add up, stats wise.

[305Baller]

Shaq/Lakers would win 10 rings. Kobe/Pippen would win a ring or 2.... maaaaybe. Jordan's leadership is a major cog to those Bulls teams. Pippen didnt win in Portland or Houston. But he came close.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Diferent rules.

Would literally kill a man to see Kobe/Hakeem play Jordan and the Bulls.

[305Baller]

Diferent rules.

Would literally kill a man to see Kobe/Hakeem play Jordan and the Bulls.

Kobe and Hakeem. Hmmm... yeah. :applause:

[KOBE143]

Realistically Kobe would've 8 rings, maybe a high possibility of 10 rings with 10fmvp in the 90s bulls.. He's not MJ that needs to take a 2 years break of rest just to save energy that help him to continue playing at high level in his early 30s and another 3 years of break so he could still play in his late 30s as role player.. Kobe would never do that.. As we all witness about Kobe, even with injury, serious or not, if possible he would still continue playing unlike Mike who doesnt have any kind of injury but still need a lot of break so he could still keep playing..

About Mike and Shaq in Lakers, I can see them winning 1 or 2 rings at best but not guaranteed.. I cant imagine Mike duplicating what Kobe had done against those Western team in the PO.. They would surely lost against Blazers and Kings in 2000.. They would have 50/50 chance of winning in 2001 but theres still doubt in me that Mike would struggle against spurs that Kobe dominated pretty easily.. In 2002, that would be the only years that they would've an above 50% chance of winning a title.. And before I forget the late 90s, Lakers with Shaq and teen Mike would have no way, possibility nor chance of winning the title because Bulls with Kobe would still be there..

We know both Mike and Kobe are winners but unlike Mike, Kobe is the real definition of true winner, a winner that never give up..

[2010splash]

Kobe might win a ring or two. It's hard to envision Jordan ever losing if he had Shaq. He's a much, much better version of Kobe without the subpar Finals performances. Same with Shaq as well regarding the Finals. They'd win forever.

[BIG FURB]

Realistically Kobe would've 8 rings, maybe a high possibility of 10 rings with 10fmvp in the 90s bulls.. He's not MJ that needs to take a 2 years break of rest just to save energy that help him to continue playing at high level in his early 30s and another 3 years of break so he could still play in his late 30s as role player.. Kobe would never do that.. As we all witness about Kobe, even with injury, serious or not, if possible he would still continue playing unlike Mike who doesnt have any kind of injury but still need a lot of break so he could still keep playing..

About Mike and Shaq in Lakers, I can see them winning 1 or 2 rings at best but not guaranteed.. I cant imagine Mike duplicating what Kobe had done against those Western team in the PO.. They would surely lost against Blazers and Kings in 2000.. They would have 50/50 chance of winning in 2001 but theres still doubt in me that Mike would struggle against spurs that Kobe dominated pretty easily.. In 2002, that would be the only years that they would've an above 50% chance of winning a title.. And before I forget the late 90s, Lakers with Shaq and teen Mike would have no way, possibility nor chance of winning the title because Bulls with Kobe would still be there..

We know both Mike and Kobe are winners but unlike Mike, Kobe is the real definition of true winner, a winner that never give up..

:applause: :applause: :applause: Best joke post ever

[gengiskhan]

:applause: :applause: :applause: Best joke post ever

anytime you see "kobe" or "mamba" or "laker" in username or in avatar picture, thats the sign of FULL RETARD.

you'll do permanent damage to yourself by burning your own neuron just reading their filth.

avoid it like a plague. look out for yourself.

[Anaximandro1]

Jordan + Shaq = 8-10 titles

Kobe + Pippen = 0-2 titles


Jordan 1st Threepeat Finals

36.3 pt,7.9 as,6.6 rb FG 52.6%

1991 31.2 pt,11.4 as,6.6 rb FG 55.8%

1992 35.8 pt,6.5 as,4.8 rb FG 52.6%

1993 41.0 pt,6.3 as,8.5 rb FG 50.8%

Kobe Finals (with Shaq)

22.2 pt,4.9 as,5.2 rb FG 41.2%

2000 15.6 pt,4.2 as,4.6 rb FG 36.7%

2001 24.6 pt,5.8 as,7.8 rb FG 41.5%

2002 26.8 pt,5.3 as,5.8 rb FG 51.4%

2004 22.6 pt,4.4 as,2.8 rb FG 38.1%

[guy]

Scenario #1 - By age, meaning 1997-2013 Kobe on the 1982-1998 Bulls and 1985-1998 Jordan on the 2000-2013 Lakers. (This assumes same injuries, off court distractions, decline, rosters, etc.)

1982 (97 Kobe) - Bulls: No Playoffs
1983 (98 Kobe) - Bulls: No Playoffs
1984 (99 Kobe) - Bulls: No Playoffs
1985 (00 Kobe) - Bulls: No Playoffs
1986 (01 Kobe) - Bulls: 8th seed lose 1st round to Celtics
1987 (02 Kobe) - Bulls: 8th seed lose 1st round to Celtics
1988 (03 Kobe) - Bulls: 4th seed lose 1st round to Bucks
1989 (04 Kobe) - Bulls: No Playoffs
1990 (05 Kobe) - Bulls: 6th seed lose 1st round to Celtics
1991 (06 Kobe) - Bulls: 1st seed championship over Lakers (Kobe - MVP, FMVP)
1992 (07 Kobe) - Bulls: 1st seed lose ECSF to Knicks (Kobe - MVP)
1993 (08 Kobe) - Bulls: 2nd seed lose ECF to Knicks
1994 (09 Kobe) - Bulls: 1st seed championship over Rockets (Kobe - FMVP)
1995 (10 Kobe) - Bulls: 1st seed lose ECF to Magic
1996 (11 Kobe) - Bulls: 2nd seed lose ECF to Magic
1997 (12 Kobe) - Bulls: 2nd seed championship over Jazz (Kobe - FMVP)
1998 (13 Kobe) - Bulls: 4th seed lose 1st round to Hornets
1999 (No Kobe or Jordan)
2000 (85 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Pacers
2001 (86 Jordan) - Lakers: 5th seed championship over Sixers
2002 (87 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Nets
2003 (88 Jordan) - Lakers: 4th seed championship over Nets (Jordan - FMVP)
2004 (89 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Pistons (Jordan - MVP, FMVP)
2005 (90 Jordan) - Lakers: 5th seed lose WCSF to Suns (Jordan - MVP)
2006 (91 Jordan) - Lakers: 5th seed lose 1st round to Mavs (Jordan - MVP)
2007 (92 Jordan) - Lakers: 6th seed lose 1st round to Spurs
2008 (93 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Celtics (Jordan - MVP, FMVP)
2009 (Jordan retired)
2010 (95 Jordan) - Lakers: 5th seed lose Finals to Celtics
2011 (96 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Heat (Jordan - MVP, FMVP)
2012 (97 Jordan) - Lakers: 2nd seed championship over Heat (Jordan - FMVP)
2013 (98 Jordan) - Lakers: 4th seed championship over Heat (Jordan - FMVP)

Kobe - 3x champ, 3x FMVP, 2x MVP, 3x Finalist
Jordan - 9x champ, 6x FMVP, 5x MVP, 10x Finalist

[guy]

Scenario #2 - By year, meaning 1997-2013 Kobe on the 1985-2001 Bulls and 1985-1998 Jordan on the 1997-2010 Lakers. (This assumes same injuries, off court distractions, decline, rosters, etc.)

1985 (97 Kobe) - Bulls: No Playoffs
1986 (98 Kobe) - Bulls: 8th seed lose 1st round to Celtics
1987 (99 Kobe) - Bulls: 8th seed lose 1st round to Celtics
1988 (00 Kobe) - Bulls: 8th seed lose 1st round to Celtics
1989 (01 Kobe) - Bulls: No Playoffs
1990 (02 Kobe) - Bulls: 5th seed lose ECSF to Pistons
1991 (03 Kobe) - Bulls: 2nd seed championship over Lakers (Kobe - FMVP)
1992 (04 Kobe) - Bulls: 1st seed lose ECSF to Knicks
1993 (05 Kobe) - Bulls: 4th seed lose ECSF to Knicks
1994 (06 Kobe) - Bulls: 1st seed championship over Rockets (Kobe - FMVP, MVP)
1995 (07 Kobe) - Bulls: 1st seed lose ECF to Magic
1996 (08 Kobe) - Bulls: 1st seed championship over Sonics (Kobe - FMVP, MVP)
1997 (09 Kobe, 85 Jordan) - Bulls: 1st seed championship over Lakers (Kobe - FMVP), Lakers: 1st seed lose Finals to Bulls
1998 (10 Kobe, 86 Jordan) - Bulls: 3rd seed lose ECF to Pacers, Lakers: 2nd seed championship over Pacers
1999 (11 Kobe, 87 Jordan) - Bulls: No Playoffs, Lakers: 1st seed championship over Knicks (Jordan - FMVP)
2000 (12 Kobe, 88 Jordan) - Bulls: No Playoffs, Lakers: 1st seed championship over Pacers
2001 (13 Kobe, 89 Jordan) - Bulls: No Playoffs, Lakers: 1st seed championship over 76ers (Jordan - MVP)
2002 (90 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Nets (Jordan - MVP)
2003 (91 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Nets (Jordan - FMVP)
2004 (92 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Pistons (Jordan - MVP, FMVP)
2005 (93 Jordan) - Lakers: 5th seed lose WCSF to Suns (Jordan - MVP)
2006 (Jordan retired)
2007 (95 Jordan) - Lakers: No playoffs
2008 (96 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed lose Finals to Celtics (Jordan - MVP)
2009 (97 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Magic (Jordan - FMVP)
2010 (98 Jordan) - Lakers: 1st seed championship over Celtics (Jordan - FMVP)

Kobe - 4x champ, 4x FMVP, 2x MVP, 4x Finalist
Jordan - 9x champ, 5x FMVP, 5x MVP, 10x Finalist

[Flash31]

Realistically Kobe would've 8 rings, maybe a high possibility of 10 rings with 10fmvp in the 90s bulls.. He's not MJ that needs to take a 2 years break of rest just to save energy that help him to continue playing at high level in his early 30s and another 3 years of break so he could still play in his late 30s as role player.. Kobe would never do that.. As we all witness about Kobe, even with injury, serious or not, if possible he would still continue playing unlike Mike who doesnt have any kind of injury but still need a lot of break so he could still keep playing..

About Mike and Shaq in Lakers, I can see them winning 1 or 2 rings at best but not guaranteed.. I cant imagine Mike duplicating what Kobe had done against those Western team in the PO.. They would surely lost against Blazers and Kings in 2000.. They would have 50/50 chance of winning in 2001 but theres still doubt in me that Mike would struggle against spurs that Kobe dominated pretty easily.. In 2002, that would be the only years that they would've an above 50% chance of winning a title.. And before I forget the late 90s, Lakers with Shaq and teen Mike would have no way, possibility nor chance of winning the title because Bulls with Kobe would still be there..

We know both Mike and Kobe are winners but unlike Mike, Kobe is the real definition of true winner, a winner that never give up..

if youre gonna make "bold facts"
like that,at least be realistic come on
KOBE WOULDVE WON More titles than Bill Russell,he wouldve won so many times that the FINALS MVP Would be named after him,and Jordan would be nothing but eddie jones lite on the lakers
The League would have retired Kobes number as a sign of gratitude,and the excellence of greatness,the NBA Logo would be Kobe shooting a Fadeaway

[gengiskhan]

1991 Kobe & the Bulls aint beating 1991 Magic's LAL.

1991 jordan went down to 1991 Magic's LAL 0-1 in chicago.

1991 kobe & Bulls will go down to Magic's LAL 0-3 in first 3 games!

reality check.


1992 Kobe is loosing to 1992 Drexler too.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Kobe would not have been able to copy Jordan's game and work ethic.

So Kobe would be a completely different player.