Duncan won't surpass Kobe.....

[9erempiree]

...and here's why, it's very easy, if Spurs beat Miami, Duncan will never surpass Kobe because he's never defended his title and go back to back. That is why I have Kobe ahead of Duncan.

We know for a fact that every time Kobe wins a championship, he has gone to win another one. Duncan has won many rings, to his credit, but he can never defend his title. Defending your title is what makes players become legends.

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=41199

[ispin69]

:facepalm Ban.

[Dwight Shrute]

...and here's why, it's very easy, if Spurs beat Miami, Duncan will never surpass Kobe because he's never defended his title and go back to back. That is why I have Kobe ahead of Duncan.

We know for a fact that every time Kobe wins a championship, he has gone to win another one. Duncan has won many rings, to his credit, but he can never defend his title. Defending your title is what makes players become legends.

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=41199

Did you say Kobe or Shaq?

Because Shaq was the leader of the 3peat

[NumberSix]

...and here's why, it's very easy, if Spurs beat Miami, Duncan will never surpass Kobe because he's never defended his title and go back to back. That is why I have Kobe ahead of Duncan.

We know for a fact that every time Kobe wins a championship, he has gone to win another one. Duncan has won many rings, to his credit, but he can never defend his title. Defending your title is what makes players become legends.

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=41199
Wow. That's an incredibly arbitrary criteria but I guess it's the last possible straw to grasp.

[gengiskhan]

2 solid MVPs BEATS 1 consolation MVP
3 solid FMVPs BEATS 1 solid FMVP & 1 weak FMVP
1 rookie of the yr BEATS bench warming teenage legacy

4 championships as LEADER beats 2 championships as leader & 3 championships as d*** rider.

Next...

[chosen_one6]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mefcm7Pb5n1rp0vovo1_400.gif

[Hittin_Shots]

I know, How can u surpass something that youare already in front of, You can't lap someone in a straight line form of ranking, exactly OP.

[tmacattack33]

Who the fukk said Kobe is ahead of Duncan in the first place ?

[9erempiree]

Who the fukk said Kobe is ahead of Duncan in the first place ?

Many people do for this same reason. It's the Kobe haters that put Duncan ahead of Kobe.

I have been arguing this for years and never needed to bring it up but out of the top 10 greats of all time, Duncan has never went back to back.

Repeating is something that's very underrated. Shaq did it. Hakeem did it. MJ too.

If you want to look up past champions and FMVP, what separates a majority of these guys is their ability to repeat.

Did the phrase.....back to back....3peat....4peat mean anything to you guys?

[9erempiree]

2 solid MVPs BEATS 1 consolation MVP
3 solid FMVPs BEATS 1 solid FMVP & 1 weak FMVP
1 rookie of the yr BEATS bench warming teenage legacy

4 championships as LEADER beats 2 championships as leader & 3 championships as d*** rider.

Next...

Kobe can string titles together. Duncan wins once every 3 years on average. 3 years is enough time to rebuild and win.

Lakers have been stringing Finals wins and appearances.

[KG215]

Impressively enough, each new thread started by the OP is more ignorant and worse than the last thread he started.

[nosfan773]

...and here's why, it's very easy, if Spurs beat Miami, Duncan will never surpass Kobe because he's never defended his title and go back to back. That is why I have Kobe ahead of Duncan.

We know for a fact that every time Kobe wins a championship, he has gone to win another one. Duncan has won many rings, to his credit, but he can never defend his title. Defending your title is what makes players become legends.

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=41199

Kobestan coming to grips with the lose-lose situation he/she is about to face the next two weeks :applause:

[9erempiree]

Wow. That's an incredibly arbitrary criteria but I guess it's the last possible straw to grasp.

It's not the last straw. It has always been a criteria. A guy winning twice in 5 years isn't as good as the guy that goes back to back. It has been that way for years.

You just heard of it now because I didn't need to remind people this. Now that Duncan is back in the Finals and people are saying he's going to pass Kobe, I have to remind people of this.

Hakeem would not be where he's at if it wasn't for his back to back titles.

[DonDadda59]

It's the Kobe haters that put Duncan ahead of Kobe.


Or people with sense.

Your argument is booty chatter, nothing more.

[Hittin_Shots]

Many people do for this same reason. It's the Kobe haters that put Duncan ahead of Kobe.

I have been arguing this for years and never needed to bring it up but out of the top 10 greats of all time, Duncan has never went back to back.

Repeating is something that's very underrated. Shaq did it. Hakeem did it. MJ too.

If you want to look up past champions and FMVP, what separates a majority of these guys is their ability to repeat.

Did the phrase.....back to back....3peat....4peat mean anything to you guys?

Its only the kobetards that put kobe ahead of duncan not the other way around

[chazzy]

I have them pretty close all time. If Duncan wins while playing at a high level (doesn't have to be better than Parker), he's definitively ahead

[tazb]

Impressively enough, each new thread started by the OP is more ignorant and worse than the last thread he started.

This. I used to find OP's troll posts entertaining and hilarious, now it's just pathetic and sad.

[miller-time]

It's not the last straw. It has always been a criteria. A guy winning twice in 5 years isn't as good as the guy that goes back to back. It has been that way for years.

So what you are saying is that if LeBron wins then it puts him in contention to be above Kobe because he has achieved the same thing. Right?

[plowking]

What is it with these arbitrary requirements for rankings of players.

Its like when people say, Jordan hasn't lost in the finals so I can't rank Kobe or Lebron above him. That is completely irrelevant.
I can claim you can't put Jordan first because he lost in the first round where as some greats haven't.

Same goes for OP's dumbass logic. He doesn't need to.

[9erempiree]

Suddenly when it comes to Kobe, stringing off titles and being on a title streak means nothing.:facepalm

I guess winning one out of 3 years is good enough.

Kobe's streak championships are better than Duncan's once in awhile rings.

Let's be honest here, winning streaks are better than one win.

[DMAVS41]

Suddenly when it comes to Kobe, stringing off titles and being on a title streak means nothing.:facepalm

I guess winning one out of 3 years is good enough.

Kobe's streak championships are better than Duncan's once in awhile rings.

Let's be honest here, winning streaks are better than one win.

Why?

[9erempiree]

So what you are saying is that if LeBron wins then it puts him in contention to be above Kobe because he has achieved the same thing. Right?

no.

Lebron going back to back is fantastic but that would put him with 2 rings.

We are talking about Duncan here who would only tie Kobe Bryant. The tie breaker? Kobe back to back Finals MVP.

[Deltron3030]

You clowns act like one player has a championship wwe belt lol. Whether the spurs, or as you say Tim Duncan wins or not, he's already surpassed Kobe. The point is moot though. There is no official universal list. Just kobetards b!tchin' and moaning cuz either way their hero gets it up the cornhole after these finals.

[9erempiree]

What is it with these arbitrary requirements for rankings of players.

Its like when people say, Jordan hasn't lost in the finals so I can't rank Kobe or Lebron above him. That is completely irrelevant.
I can claim you can't put Jordan first because he lost in the first round where as some greats haven't.

Same goes for OP's dumbass logic. He doesn't need to.

It's a pretty fair assessment on my part. What puts MJ ahead of others is that he never lost in the Finals. Never lost. 3peated not once but twice. A streak of championships.

Kobe has went on streaks of championships.

Duncan has never.

[DonDadda59]

Kobestan coming to grips with the lose-lose situation he/she is about to face the next two weeks :applause:

Funny thing is if the Heat win then Lebron would fit the OP's random criteria of repeating. That means he would've accomplished as much as Kobe did (2/3 championships, repeat, 2 finals MVPs) after his apprenticeship with Shaq while playing more dominant, better all around ball w/ 4X the MVPs.

So just going by the OP's formula... how do you not rank Bron higher than Bean all time if he repeats? :confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I have them pretty close all time. If Duncan wins while playing at a high level (doesn't have to be better than Parker), he's definitively ahead
I don't think winning a title while being a sidekick to Tony Parker warrants surpassing Kobe in my opinion.

[9erempiree]

You clowns act like one player has a championship wwe belt lol. Whether the spurs, or as you say Tim Duncan wins or not, he's already surpassed Kobe. The point is moot though. There is no official universal list. Just kobetards b!tchin' and moaning cuz either way their hero gets it up the cornhole after these finals.

How do they get it up the..... when Duncan would only be tied with Kobe?

Kobe's already far ahead of Duncan in the record books.

If Hakeem won just one more ring, he would be ahead of Duncan based on the fact that the Rockets went back to back.

Don't act like going back to back is easy.

[9erempiree]

Funny thing is if the Heat win then Lebron would fit the OP's random criteria of repeating. That means he would've accomplished as much as Kobe did (2/3 championships, repeat, 2 finals MVPs) after his apprenticeship with Shaq while playing more dominant, better all around ball w/ 4X the MVPs.

So just going by the OP's formula... how do you not rank Bron higher than Bean all time if he repeats? :confusedshrug:

2 is never more than 5.

Kobe has done more with less. Look at how stacked Miami is.

Did you guys forget that Lebron went to join his rival? It's like Magic joining Bird or MJ going to the Pistons.

[arifgokcen]

Suddenly when it comes to Kobe, stringing off titles and being on a title streak means nothing.:facepalm

I guess winning one out of 3 years is good enough.

Kobe's streak championships are better than Duncan's once in awhile rings.

Let's be honest here, winning streaks are better than one win.

I wonder what will you say if miami ends up winning 3 straight and lebron 3 FMVPs.

Dude just give up the trolling

[nosfan773]

Kobe's the only 'all-time great' where when hurt there is a legitimate debate on whether the team might be better without him. Think about that. Part of that you can credit to the great squads LA always seems to field, but you would NEVER say that about Timmy or any other top player.

[DonDadda59]

2 is never more than 5.

If we're counting sidekick rings now, then 8>5... John Havlicek>Kobe.

6>5... Scottie Pippen>Kobe.

I'm just going by your logic here.

[Quickening]

2 is never more than 5.

Kobe has done more with less. Look at how stacked Miami is.

Did you guys forget that Lebron went to join his rival? It's like Magic joining Bird or MJ going to the Pistons.
You realise miami are stacked mainly because of lebron... if you replace kobe with lebroj at lakers.. lakers win ship, replace durant with lebron, okc win ship.. rise with lebron, chicago.win ship, he made cleveland one best teams in NBA, when Kobe had similar talent he missed playoffs.Wade and bish been hopeless against pacers but LeBron came up big

[9erempiree]

If we're counting sidekick rings now, then 8>5... John Havlicek>Kobe.

6>5... Scottie Pippen>Kobe.

I'm just going by your logic here.

Except Pippen and Havlicek aren't considered one of the greatest of all time.

You can compare MJ to Kobe. Shaq to Kobe. Duncan to Kobe.

You can't do that with Horry over MJ. Horry over Kobe. They are different caliber players.

You can compare ring counts when both parties are pretty much the greatest players of all time.

Fisher over Hakeem doesn't pass.

[brain drain]

I don't know how this is even a discussion.

Duncan was better from the moment Hurricane Hugo destroyed that pool on St Croix, and has been ever since.

The only way to come to a different conclusion is if all you care about are regular season games against the Toronto Raptors.

[9erempiree]

You realise miami are stacked mainly because of lebron... if you replace kobe with lebroj at lakers.. lakers win ship, replace durant with lebron, okc win ship.. rise with lebron, chicago.win ship, he made cleveland one best teams in NBA, when Kobe had similar talent he missed playoffs.Wade and bish been hopeless against pacers but LeBron came up big

I can play that game too.....What If's.....

Put Kobe on the Bulls and they run off with 8 straight because Kobe doesn't like baseball.

See what I did right there.

[Quickening]

I can play that game too.....What If's.....

Put Kobe on the Bulls and they run off with 8 straight because Kobe doesn't like baseball.

See what I did right there.
No, because Kobe has never been the consensus best player in the game like LeBron.. doesn't have overall impact.. you can deny it all you want but its the truth. Plus LeBron has proven it, look at drop off Cavs had without him, Lakers have a better overall winning percentage when Kobe doesn't play lol

[GrapeApe]

5 titles is 5 titles. Would you rather win back to back titles or 3 titles in 5 years? It's all about the number. Back to backs are a great accomplishment but they don't carry any more weight than any other title, unless of course it fits the agenda.

[Smoke117]

Surpass Kobe? He already did that years ago.

[dbk123]

He doesn't have to since he already did :roll:

[9erempiree]

No, because Kobe has never been the consensus best player in the game like LeBron.. doesn't have overall impact.. you can deny it all you want but its the truth.

Those are just opinions aren't they.

You guys just bring opinions and hypothetical scenarios when I have brought straight hard facts.

Best player? How do you judge that? MVP's?...I forgot those are based on voting.

[K]

He never surpassed Kobe and he won't ever need to because he has always been ahead of him.

[9erempiree]

5 titles is 5 titles. Would you rather win back to back titles or 3 titles in 5 years? It's all about the number. Back to backs are a great accomplishment but they don't carry any more weight than any other title, unless of course it fits the agenda.

It's not agenda driven.

Back to back, 3peat and 4peat, if they didn't mean anything then there wouldn't be such monikers. Pat Riley even trademarked one of those phrases.

It's a big deal, these phrases I mentioned above have been talked about before Kobe even sat foot in America.

Goes way back.

[DonDadda59]

Except Pippen and Havlicek aren't considered one of the greatest of all time.

John Havlicek's resume:

21 PPG/6.3 RPG/4.8 APG (44% FG)
26,395 Career Points (Celtics all time leader, 12th all time)
8 Championships
1 Finals MVP (played the majority of his career before FMVP existed)
13X All Star
All Rookie First Team
4X All NBA 1st Team
7X All NBA 2nd Team
5X All NBA Defense 1st Team
3X All NBA Defense 2nd Team
Peak play- 29 PPG/9 RPG/8 APG while playing all world defense and leading the league in minutes.

Anyone who says John Havlicek 'isn't one of the greatest of all time' clearly doesn't know the first thing about the History of Basketball... I'm sure that doesn't include you though.

But the point still stands. You said 2 is smaller than 5. Yet 5 being smaller than 8 says Kobe should be ranked higher than Havlicek?

Does not compute, homie :biggums:

[SpurrDurr]

OP criteria: Lebron ring isn't worth anything since he joined a quite succesful franchise stacked with talent.

Then how can you rank Kobe ahead of Duncan? Kobe asked Charlotte to be traded to the Lakers and during his 3peat he was huge, but he never was the top dog.

You got quite an arbitrary chain of thoughts OP :confusedshrug:

[ispin69]

Moving/Shifting the goalpost fallacy.
It changes to fit his agenda.

One minute it's whos won back to back is better.
The next, it's the number of rings matter more.

[DonDadda59]

I can play that game too.....What If's.....

Put Kobe on the Bulls and they run off with 8 straight because Kobe doesn't like baseball.

See what I did right there.

Kobe can't win with a frontcourt of Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol, but he's going to win multiple rings with a frontcourt featuring Luc Longley and Dennis Rodman or Bill Wennington. Yeah, OK :oldlol:

Go to sleep. I know you're going to have nightmares about this finals. You're trapped between a rock and a hard place. But try to get some rest :cheers:

[Smoke117]

Except Pippen and Havlicek aren't considered one of the greatest of all time.

You can compare MJ to Kobe. Shaq to Kobe. Duncan to Kobe.

You can't do that with Horry over MJ. Horry over Kobe. They are different caliber players.

You can compare ring counts when both parties are pretty much the greatest players of all time.

Fisher over Hakeem doesn't pass.

Uh...Scottie Pippen is considered one of the top 30 players of all time, moron

[9erempiree]

Uh...Scottie Pippen is considered one of the top 30 players of all time, moron

Moron?

Top 30?

We talking about top 10 here. Try to keep up.

[chopchop20]

I think any player would rather have Kobe's resume, including Duncan.

[SpurrDurr]

I think any player would rather have Kobe's resume, including Duncan.

Nah, same people like to carry the load.

[chopchop20]

Nah, same people like to carry the load.

Whuh... :biggums:

[TheBigVeto]

...and here's why, it's very easy, if Spurs beat Miami, Duncan will never surpass Kobe because he's never defended his title and go back to back. That is why I have Kobe ahead of Duncan.

We know for a fact that every time Kobe wins a championship, he has gone to win another one. Duncan has won many rings, to his credit, but he can never defend his title. Defending your title is what makes players become legends.

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=41199


http://oi53.tinypic.com/34rtwyh.jpg


http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif


U Mad Kobetards?
Kobetards are phaggits
Kobe isn't a great player, FACT

Duncan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

[TheMarkMadsen]

Nah, same people like to carry the load.
:roll:

What the hell does that even mean?
:oldlol:
:biggums:

[9erempiree]

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif




:facepalm

[Sakkreth]

Ban op ffs.

[Myth]

Duncan won't surpass Kobe.....


















......because you have to be trailing somebody in order to surpass them. :banana:

[Flush]

So insecure. . .

[Unbiased_one]

Kobe has done more with less.
.

:roll: :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :oldlol:

[9erempiree]

I never considered Duncan to be very high on any list because for a guy that is suppose to be as good as he is/was....I find it funny that he never went back to back.

He won a lot of rings but not in dominant fashion by winning consecutive years.

[miles berg]

Duncan passed Kobe a long time ago.

[DJ Leon Smith]

I totally agree.

BTW, I also agree with the OP that George Mikan is a better scorer than Kobe Bryant. Kobe could only string two scoring titles together, Mikan did it three times.

It's very refreshing to see a Kobe fan admit that a guy who couldn't jump over a piece of paper in the 1950s is a better scorer than his Gawdbe :bowdown:

[K Xerxes]

It's sad that this would literally be the only argument left for Kobe if they're equal in rings.

Well, that and how many 50/60/70/80 point games either one has. :lol

Unless Duncan dominates and wins FMVP, they will still remain relatively close to me. In that 8-10 range.

[9erempiree]

It's sad that this would literally be the only argument left for Kobe if they're equal in rings.

Well, that and how many 50/60/70/80 point games either one has. :lol

Unless Duncan dominates and wins FMVP, they will still remain relatively close to me. In that 8-10 range.

It was always an argument. Before Kobe even went to win without Shaq, people were already comparing Duncan to other players besides Kobe.

A majority didn't feel that he should be ranked that high when guy's like Hakeem went back to back. Shaq did the same.

Duncan is a one and done guy. He was never considered a guy that would win it back to back. Whether it's motivational or what, we don't know.

At least with past teams, people will predict them to repeat but never for a Duncan team.

[daj0264]

hard to overtake someone behind you

[K Xerxes]

It was always an argument. Before Kobe even went to win without Shaq, people were already comparing Duncan to other players besides Kobe.

A majority didn't feel that he should be ranked that high when guy's like Hakeem went back to back. Shaq did the same.

Duncan is a one and done guy. He was never considered a guy that would win it back to back. Whether it's motivational or what, we don't know.

At least with past teams, people will predict them to repeat but never for a Duncan team.

Larry Bird didn't repeat. Wilt Chamberlain didn't repeat. Tim Duncan didn't repeat.

It doesn't harm the legacy because the championships are still won. The fact that Duncan won rings in '09, '03, '05 and '07 just means an extended period of dominance (and he was injured for '00, mind you) not necessarily concentrated in spurts.

To suggest that this should be an overarching criteria is ludicrous and quite clearly agenda-driven for your trolling. Kobe Bryant has only won 2 rings as 'the man' and leader, Tim Duncan has won 4. That's ultimately more important.

A majority do not feel that Hakeem should be ranked over Duncan because he went back-to-back. If you have any evidence to corroborate that assertion, then please provide it because you're just talking out of your ass. Those that rank Hakeem over Duncan believe he was a better player; it wouldn't matter if his rings came in '94-95 or '94 and '96. He still won.

[2010splash]

Duncan doesn't have to surpass Kobe because he is already ahead of him. "Winning back to back" is just a random arbitrary category to judge a player by. Duncan has won more titles as the clear top dog on his team. Plus he won back to back MVP's, something Kobe never did. And obviously his defense is much more impactful than Kobe's. However, LeBron moves into the top 2-3 all time after a ring this year. Duncan will be around #7 and Kobe around #10 or #11.

[9erempiree]

Duncan doesn't have to surpass Kobe because he is already ahead of him. "Winning back to back" is just a random arbitrary category to judge a player by. Duncan has won more titles as the clear top dog on his team. Plus he won back to back MVP's, something Kobe never did. And obviously his defense is much more impactful than Kobe's. However, LeBron moves into the top 2-3 all time after a ring this year. Duncan will be around #7 and Kobe around #10 or #11.

Lebron set his ceiling when he joined his rival. Since "the decision" I have stopped any talk about him even cracking the list.

I'm not hating but I don't think it should be that easy to get on that list.

Winning back to back is arbitrary? This is the same exact criteria why MJ is considered GOAT. His 3peats. Heck, people even said he would win 8 in a row if he didn't retire.

Obviously, repeating does wonders.

I'm not even talking about just Kobe here. I'm repping all the players that have dominated and went on to repeat.

[2010splash]

Lebron set his ceiling when he joined his rival. Since "the decision" I have stopped any talk about him even cracking the list.

I'm not hating but I don't think it should be that easy to get on that list.

Winning back to back is arbitrary? This is the same exact criteria why MJ is considered GOAT. His 3peats. Heck, people even said he would win 8 in a row if he didn't retire.

Obviously, repeating does wonders.

I'm not even talking about just Kobe here. I'm repping all the players that have dominated and went on to repeat.Jordan 3-peated twice as the best player in the league. Kobe repeated (worse than 3-peat) once as the best player on his own team and shot 40% during his second Finals win. The first 3-peat he was clear 2nd fiddle to Shaq and had horrible shooting percentages in 2 of his 3 Finals (from 2000-02).

Duncan is definitely a better Finals performer than Kobe. It's not just how much you win. It's how well you played too.

[Sharmer]

Duncans achieved a lot in his career, but he's rather boring, other than that, I put Kobe ahead based on dominance, Duncans been very consistent, but never really dominated like Shaq, Kobe or even Barkley.

Also he doesn't really have a diverse set of skills, rather a few which are repetitively used.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Excuse me, Kobe has never surpassed Duncan even with his fifth ring.
:facepalm

[daj0264]

hard to overtake someone behind you


:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[NustABut]

Larry Bird didn't repeat. Wilt Chamberlain didn't repeat. Tim Duncan didn't repeat.

It doesn't harm the legacy because the championships are still won. The fact that Duncan won rings in '09, '03, '05 and '07 just means an extended period of dominance (and he was injured for '00, mind you) not necessarily concentrated in spurts.

To suggest that this should be an overarching criteria is ludicrous and quite clearly agenda-driven for your trolling. Kobe Bryant has only won 2 rings as 'the man' and leader, Tim Duncan has won 4. That's ultimately more important.

A majority do not feel that Hakeem should be ranked over Duncan because he went back-to-back. If you have any evidence to corroborate that assertion, then please provide it because you're just talking out of your ass. Those that rank Hakeem over Duncan believe he was a better player; it wouldn't matter if his rings came in '94-95 or '94 and '96. He still won.

Duncan was a Laker?

[BoutPractice]

Duncans achieved a lot in his career, but he's rather boring, other than that, I put Kobe ahead based on dominance, Duncans been very consistent, but never really dominated like Shaq, Kobe or even Barkley.

Also he doesn't really have a diverse set of skills, rather a few which are repetitively used.
> Those are familiar talking points, but you're wrong on both counts.
First, Duncan at his peak was definitely dominant. Contrary to popular opinion, he could score almost at will, and he impacted every facet of the game very significantly. If he wasn't dominant, he wouldn't have won a title with the 2003 Spurs - a team with no other All-Stars.
Secondly, Duncan has one of the most diverse set of skills in the history of the league... At his size and position, I don't know of a thing he cannot do on the court.
How many near 7 footers can grab a tough rebound, then either throw a perfect Bill Walton outlet pass or run the fastbreak like a guard, finishing with a Magic Johnson assist... shoot the midrange J and even the clutch 3 pointer... dribble between their legs and make a bank shot facing up... score inside with a hook shot, turnaround or off-balance fadeaway, up and under, drop step, lightning quick spin move... finish with both a floater or a thunderous dunk depending on the situation... get blocked 4 to 5 times, not lose their composure and finish the play ala Moses Malone... make a beautiful pass to a cutter from the post... while setting actual screens and defending in a fundamental way (both individual and team defense) with the ability to block every shot that comes their way? Name one.

[vegasbigshots]

Op does not know who to root for. Spurs or Heats. Duncan or LBL > than Kobe if they win a ring this year.

[Sakkreth]

Kobe in no time of his carrer ever was ahead of duncan on all-time list.

[NBASTATMAN]

Duncan doesn't have to surpass Kobe because he is already ahead of him. "Winning back to back" is just a random arbitrary category to judge a player by. Duncan has won more titles as the clear top dog on his team. Plus he won back to back MVP's, something Kobe never did. And obviously his defense is much more impactful than Kobe's. However, LeBron moves into the top 2-3 all time after a ring this year. Duncan will be around #7 and Kobe around #10 or #11.


:wtf:

[DMAVS41]

So I guess this is worst case scenario for Kobe fans. Spurs win and Duncan is definitely ahead of Kobe all time...Heat win and Lebron inches closer to Kobe all time and likely pulls even with him after if he plays great and wins finals mvp.

For now at least...I wouldn't write Kobe off next year and the year after for making one last title push. Hope he gets enough help to do it.

[Noob Saibot]

lol at this thread.

OP may as well stick with bashing Lebron. Me personally I already have LeBron ahead of Kobe Jordan. But if LeKing wins the ring with a finals MVP, it's a given he's in the top 10 list. Timmy is up there with Shaq and Hakeem for 6-8 spots.

[Anaximandro1]

> Those are familiar talking points, but you're wrong on both counts.
First, Duncan at his peak was definitely dominant. Contrary to popular opinion, he could score almost at will, and he impacted every facet of the game very significantly. If he wasn't dominant, he wouldn't have won a title with the 2003 Spurs - a team with no other All-Stars.

Yeah...NBA fans know nothing about the Spurs and Duncan. It's astonishing


don't be fooled by the regular season and the first round


[QUOTE][B]Playoffs (1998

[Himan12]

Duncan has been/is the better player and ahead on the all time rankings. Can't think of a solid argument for kobe being ahead.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Just like what most people have been saying, cant surpass someone who is already behind you.
:rolleyes:

[NumberSix]

So I guess this is worst case scenario for Kobe fans. Spurs win and Duncan is definitely ahead of Kobe all time...Heat win and Lebron inches closer to Kobe all time and likely pulls even with him after if he plays great and wins finals mvp.

For now at least...I wouldn't write Kobe off next year and the year after for making one last title push. Hope he gets enough help to do it.
No, the worst case for Kobe Stans is LeBron winning. That's all.

They don't give a shit about Duncan. Duncan isn't a super famous player like Kobe or LeBron. In their mind, he automatically doesnt matter. They don't give a shit about him.

[PickernRoller]

No, the worst case for Kobe Stans is LeBron winning. That's all.

They don't give a shit about Duncan. Duncan isn't a super famous player like Kobe or LeBron. In their mind, he automatically doesnt matter. They don't give a shit about him.

lol - dumb as always - weak troll. Anyway Duncan will never surpass Kobe and Lebron will not either...the signs of rot already plague the Heat - whether they win this season or not. Kobe haters can say whatever the f'ck they want - won't matter one bit once they step outside their rooms. OP is pathetic btw - just stop bro...

[DMAVS41]

lol - dumb as always - weak troll. Anyway Duncan will never surpass Kobe and Lebron will not either...the signs of rot already plague the Heat - whether they win this season or not. Kobe haters can say whatever the f'ck they want - won't matter one bit once they step outside their rooms. OP is pathetic btw - just stop bro...

If the Heat win...I won't have Lebron ahead of Kobe yet, but I bet most people will.

And it wouldn't be stupid to have it that way yet.

4 time MVP and 2 time champion/finals mvp with a better peak already than Kobe and some of the best numbers ever.

Lebron, if he wins this year, would be on pace to finish with something like 6 mvps and 4 titles. And at that point...it wouldn't even be close.

[2010splash]

Please... outside of Lakers fans, nobody believes Kobe will end up higher all-time than LeBron. Frankly it isn't even close. We're comparing a 4-time MVP winner (who won each MVP in a landslide) to a 1-time MVP winner who won his only MVP in a year where 3 different players were statistically superior but played on far worse teams and thus had worse records. The disparity in dominance between LeBron and Kobe is glaring. Kobe is basically stuck at #9 or #10 all time with no real opportunity to go any higher.

[MavsPoke]

<-- Mavs fans

No reason to root for either team or either star.

Duncan is greater than Kobe.

[Shih508]

Kobe is a very weak playoff performer and I don't even know why is he ranked in top 10 .......


One of the weakest among all time greats in playoff........... his scoring ability is very overrated when going up against quality teams

Btw Duncan has always been ahead of Kobe the moment he puts up the Spurs uniform so there's no way he can surpass Kobe since he's always ahead of WeakBe

[Duncan21formvp]

...and here's why, it's very easy, if Spurs beat Miami, Duncan will never surpass Kobe because he's never defended his title and go back to back. That is why I have Kobe ahead of Duncan.

We know for a fact that every time Kobe wins a championship, he has gone to win another one. Duncan has won many rings, to his credit, but he can never defend his title. Defending your title is what makes players become legends.

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=41199
Duncan did something Kobe could not do and that is win for a franchise that never won anything prior to him arriving.

[secund2nun]

Even now Duncan is a far superior player than Prime Kobe "can't pass the first round with prime Odom unless I ride the coattails of an elite front court' Bryant.

Kobe is the most overrated athlete of all time.

[Greg Oden 50]

Even now Duncan is a far superior player than Prime Kobe "can't pass the first round with prime Odom unless I ride the coattails of an elite front court' Bryant.

Kobe is the most overrated athlete of all time.

along with lebron james

[jzek]

Duncan is the GOAT PF. That alone puts him over Kobe who is NOT even the GOAT anything.

[Shih508]

GOAT Emulator GAWDBE

[RossTalksSports]

...and here's why, it's very easy, if Spurs beat Miami, Duncan will never surpass Kobe because he's never defended his title and go back to back. That is why I have Kobe ahead of Duncan.

We know for a fact that every time Kobe wins a championship, he has gone to win another one. Duncan has won many rings, to his credit, but he can never defend his title. Defending your title is what makes players become legends.

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=41199

I'd say by the standard of who do you want to start your franchise with Duncan has already surpassed Kobe. By greatness of overall career counting rings is extremely lazy Duncan's overall body of work is more impressive than Kobe's.

[The Iron Fist]

Why?
Because you are actually defending your position as champion.

[DMAVS41]

Because you are actually defending your position as champion.

But why does that make a player better?

The funny thing is...I actually think it speaks more to how great Duncan was. He never really had the supporting cast to win back to back rings given the competition.

Although they could have easily won 3 in a row if Dirk hadn't gone HAM in a road game 7...but of course...Duncan went HAM as well with like 40/20/5 or something absurd.

So lets say Manu doesn't foul Dirk and the Spurs win that series and then win the title...which is what would have happened.

But they don't win in 07.

So everything is the same and they won back to back in 05 and 06...

You honestly rank Duncan higher because of that? Makes no sense.

[Myth]

Kobe in no time of his carrer ever was ahead of duncan on all-time list.

False, Kobe wasn't considered the greater NBA player in 1996-97.

[Koresh]

It's not the last straw. It has always been a criteria. A guy winning twice in 5 years isn't as good as the guy that goes back to back. It has been that way for years.

You just heard of it now because I didn't need to remind people this. Now that Duncan is back in the Finals and people are saying he's going to pass Kobe, I have to remind people of this.

Hakeem would not be where he's at if it wasn't for his back to back titles.

STFU. You are saying this "new" criteria because of chopchop_on_my_ass_20 was starting posting about this in another thread about repeating is more important. In the next 2 weeks = win/win

LeBron surpasses Kobe with 2 rings.
Duncan surpasses Kobe with 5 rings, but he should be ahead of Kobe to begin with.

Why is my pocket making noise?

Oh, it's 9erempiree...

*opens pocket; adds ether*

NEXT!

[NumberSix]

But why does that make a player better?

The funny thing is...I actually think it speaks more to how great Duncan was. He never really had the supporting cast to win back to back rings given the competition.

Although they could have easily won 3 in a row if Dirk hadn't gone HAM in a road game 7...but of course...Duncan went HAM as well with like 40/20/5 or something absurd.

So lets say Manu doesn't foul Dirk and the Spurs win that series and then win the title...which is what would have happened.

But they don't win in 07.

So everything is the same and they won back to back in 05 and 06...

You honestly rank Duncan higher because of that? Makes no sense.
You could also argue that SAS never won back to back because they only won chips during the off years of other dominant teams. The off year between bulls and lakers 3peat dynasties for example.

[DMAVS41]

You could also argue that SAS never won back to back because they only won chips during the off years of other dominant teams. The off year between bulls and lakers 3peat dynasties for example.

Absolutely...and that would be a much more reasonable argument. Certainly the Spurs won in years with relatively weak competition outside of 05.

But the back to back argument is just nonsense.

[Overdrive]

It's not the last straw. It has always been a criteria. A guy winning twice in 5 years isn't as good as the guy that goes back to back. It has been that way for years.

You just heard of it now because I didn't need to remind people this. Now that Duncan is back in the Finals and people are saying he's going to pass Kobe, I have to remind people of this.

Hakeem would not be where he's at if it wasn't for his back to back titles.

The b2b underlined Hakeem's late, but great peak. Kobe's peak consisted of first round exits. Both Kobe and Duncan won titles over the course of a decade. Duncan's are spread out Kobe's concentrated, but that doesn't change that they both were able to play at an championship contending level for over 10 years. What sets Duncan apart from Kobe is that he was the 1A option from the day he was entering the draft. Any team would've made him that. Even the Spurs, who had the rehabed Admiral 3 years removed from an MVP season instantly made him their first option. Duncan got his ring and FMVP by his second season.
Kobe had to develop into a star and superstar player through the years.


I think any player would rather have Kobe's resume, including Duncan.

What exactly did Kobe achieve, what Duncan didn't?

[The JKidd Kid]

Many people do for this same reason. It's the Kobe haters that put Duncan ahead of Kobe.

I have been arguing this for years and never needed to bring it up but out of the top 10 greats of all time, Duncan has never went back to back.

Repeating is something that's very underrated. Shaq did it. Hakeem did it. MJ too.

If you want to look up past champions and FMVP, what separates a majority of these guys is their ability to repeat.

Did the phrase.....back to back....3peat....4peat mean anything to you guys?

Please take kobes bush out of your face so you can actually see reality. Duncan not only has more individual achievements in his career, but he didnt need to ride on the back of a top 10 GOAT to win 3 championships. Kobe is barely in the top 10 and you could seriously make an argument for him not being in the top 10. Duncan is better, just get over it.

[GoSpursGo1984]

What is wrong with these Kobe stans? This coming from someone who has defended Kobe on many occasions.

[Lebron23]

Duncan is currently ahead of Kobe. He won 4 NBA Championships, and 3 Finals MVP.

The Spurs are a playoffs team since the 1997-98 NBA Season.

[tgan3]

As much as I like Kobe, Duncan is the better player period. Duncan and Shaq is arguable but Duncan >> Kobe.

[Greg Oden 50]

...and here's why, it's very easy, if Spurs beat Miami, Duncan will never surpass Kobe because he's never defended his title and go back to back. That is why I have Kobe ahead of Duncan.

We know for a fact that every time Kobe wins a championship, he has gone to win another one. Duncan has won many rings, to his credit, but he can never defend his title. Defending your title is what makes players become legends.

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=41199

how many fmvp kobe hv :oldlol:

[9erempiree]

This has always been a knock on Duncan. For as great as he is, and all those players he supposedly is better than, he never won back to back titles.

Just one of those one and done guys and who knows when he will win again.

His teams never seem to be the favorites the following year. There will be other teams that will come along and beat the Spurs.

Hakeem broke the top 10 list due to his play and he cemented it with his back to back titles.

What Lebron is doing right now is far better than what Duncan has done, but too bad he had to do it on his rival's team. 3 straight Finals and a back to back is far more impressive than what Duncan has done, minus the extra two rings and one FMVP. That's only if Lebron goes to win.

[Solefade]

OP is a bonafide retard

[lefthook00]

This has always been a knock on Duncan. For as great as he is, and all those players he supposedly is better than, he never won back to back titles.

Just one of those one and done guys and who knows when he will win again.

His teams never seem to be the favorites the following year. There will be other teams that will come along and beat the Spurs.

Hakeem broke the top 10 list due to his play and he cemented it with his back to back titles.

What Lebron is doing right now is far better than what Duncan has done, but too bad he had to do it on his rival's team. 3 straight Finals and a back to back is far more impressive than what Duncan has done, minus the extra two rings and one FMVP. That's only if Lebron goes to win.

It's a knock on Duncan but it's not that big of a knock. It's more about a strong-running dynasty more than anything. It's not serious to the point where it takes away the ring and FMVP. If not winning back-to-back titles is that big of a knock, then how much bigger of a knock is winning a ring as the 2nd option, or winning a ring and not getting FMVP?

By the way, Duncan was going up against the most dominant ever(Shaq) and the greatest duo of all-time(Shaq & Kobe) during their prime.