Is there anything more overrated than LEBRON taking Cleveland to the Finals?

[Nebraskanball]

He beat the following teams:

1. Washington Wizards (41-41)
Best players: Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jameson, Caron Butler

2. New Jersey NETS (41-41)
Best players: past prime Vince Carter, Nenad Krstic, past prime Kidd.

3. Detroit Pistons (53-29)
Best players: Rip Hamilton (led in minutes and PPG), Billups (shot 42% on the season), Rasheed Wallace (shot 43% from the field, 32 years old)

Washington and New Jersey wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs in the West and Detroit was over the hump and would have been a 4 or 5 seed.
Obviously it's a decent feat...but his supporting cast was as good/if not better than the rest of the teams in the East (outside of Detroit...maybe)

Kobe would have taken that team to the finals. MJ would have. Shaq would have. Hell, Melo would have a shot with that team.

And then he got completely embarrassed against the Spurs. Not impressed.

[Bigsmoke]

He beat the following teams:

1. Washington Wizards (41-41)
Best players: Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jameson, Caron Butler

2. New Jersey NETS (41-41)
Best players: past prime Vince Carter, Nenad Krstic, past prime Kidd.

3. Detroit Pistons (53-29)
Best players: Rip Hamilton (led in minutes and PPG), Billups (shot 42% on the season), Rasheed Wallace (shot 43% from the field, 32 years old)

Washington and New Jersey wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs in the West and Detroit was over the hump and would have been a 4 or 5 seed.
Obviously it's a decent feat...but his supporting cast was as good/if not better than the rest of the teams in the East (outside of Detroit...maybe)

Kobe would have taken that team to the finals. MJ would have. Shaq would have. Hell, Melo would have a shot with that team.

And then he got completely embarrassed against the Spurs. Not impressed.

did u look at LeBron's supporting cast? :confusedshrug:

[dh144498]

Lebron could have played 1-5 and still win 60+ games. the GOAT!!!

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Nebraskanball]

Lebron could have played 1-5 and still win 60+ games. the GOAT!!!

:bowdown: :bowdown:
I could have scraped together 40 wins in the East that year.

[2010splash]

Nobody besides maybe Jordan could have taken that team to the Finals. Shaq needed superstar help basically every year he ever won a title.

Kobe? :roll: LeBron led that Cavs team past a Pistons team that not too long ago shut Kobe down in the Finals to the tune of 38.1 FG%. And that was when he had maybe the most stacked team ever in prime Shaq, Malone AND Payton! No effing way would Kobe get them to the Finals. He needs prime Shaq and/or prime Gasol/Odom/Bynum to reach the Finals.

[Big#50]

He was very young. And even though the East sucked its still impressive.

[Straight_Ballin]

did u look at LeBron's supporting cast? :confusedshrug:

Did you look at the teams he played against?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Daniel Gibson, a rookie 2nd round pick PG was his 2nd option by the time they got to the ECF.

[caliman]

Kobe would have taken that team to the finals.


:no:

[AintNoSunshine]

yes. kobes first three rings and fmvp in 2010. oh and his lifetime achievement mvp award that media gifted him out of condolence.

[Nebraskanball]

Daniel Gibson, a rookie 2nd round pick PG was his 2nd option by the time they got to the ECF.
Daniel Gibson played 20.1 minutes per game in the playoffs that year. Don't make stuff up. He was the 6th man and took 5 shots a game. LOL.
Maybe it was because he had a center (Big Z) that was shooting 50% and pulling down 10 boards?
Gibson was the 10th best player on the team in terms of PER.

That team was deep, had some quality players, and with Lebron..was as solid a lineup anyone in the East had.

You Lebron defenders know no bounds.

[imnew09]

Daniel Gibson, a rookie 2nd round pick PG was his 2nd option by the time they got to the ECF.

Lol i laughed when you said Gibson was the second option. Might as well throw in the waterboy as the third option

[Trollsmasher]

I guess anyone could have won that G5 for the Cavs:confusedshrug:

[HardwoodLegend]

T-Mac would have made it to the Finals with that cast.

Playing with soft, quickly winded Yao in the West with abysmal surrounding pieces is much harder than getting at least a semi-decent cast in the East.

[hitmanyr2k]

He beat the following teams:

1. Washington Wizards (41-41)
Best players: Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jameson, Caron Butler

2. New Jersey NETS (41-41)
Best players: past prime Vince Carter, Nenad Krstic, past prime Kidd.

3. Detroit Pistons (53-29)
Best players: Rip Hamilton (led in minutes and PPG), Billups (shot 42% on the season), Rasheed Wallace (shot 43% from the field, 32 years old)

Washington and New Jersey wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs in the West and Detroit was over the hump and would have been a 4 or 5 seed.
Obviously it's a decent feat...but his supporting cast was as good/if not better than the rest of the teams in the East (outside of Detroit...maybe)

Kobe would have taken that team to the finals. MJ would have. Shaq would have. Hell, Melo would have a shot with that team.

And then he got completely embarrassed against the Spurs. Not impressed.

You mave have forgotten but that Wizards team didn't have two of their top three players (Arenas and Caron Butler) in the playoffs because they were injured. That team was mediocre to begin with but they were practically a D-League team without Arenas and Butler.

[Solefade]

Does it really matter? Larry Hughes and Eric Snow were STARTING for the Cavs. It doesn't get any worse than that.

Gibson was the only player that showed up in the ECF.

[Doranku]

I see that you conveniently forgot that LeBron had the greatest playoff performance in NBA history against the Pistons in Game 5. :facepalm

[SilkkTheShocker]

Does it really matter? Larry Hughes and Eric Snow were STARTING for the Cavs. It doesn't get any worse than that.

Gibson was the only player that showed up in the ECF.

This. If it weren't for Gibson, you would never had known LeBron was playing with anyone during those games. Good Lord, those teams had no talent. INB4 someone says "they played defense!!!" or "they were built around LeBron!!" Just fancy ways of saying his teams had little talent.

[Fudge]

Why would LeBron waste his whole ****ing career with that dreadful roster. :facepalm Carrying that team to the Finals settles his GOAT status.

[Ne 1]

That 41 Wizards team didn't even have Arenas and Butler in the playoffs.

[SilkkTheShocker]

That 41 Wizards team didn't even have Arenas and Butler in the playoffs.

Why aren't you posting under your MJForever username?

[Solefade]

That 41 Wizards team didn't even have Arenas and Butler in the playoffs.


Who gives a shit about the Wizards and the first round or 2nd round? The Pistons were nothing to sneeze at. LeBron had to play out of his mind in G5 in Detroit to get past them.


Meanwhile the same year, Kobe has a first round exit after being up 3-1 who had a better roster than LeBron. Why isn't this ever brought up as one of the biggest choke jobs?

[leMVP]

Kobe Bryant

[Mass Debator]

I remember game 1. He almost recorded a triple double. Attempted 19 free throws to score 20 points. Very beautiful game in which the Cavs came short. :cry:

Anyway, he was only 22 years old. Cut him some slack folks.

[hitmanyr2k]

Who gives a shit about the Wizards and the first round or 2nd round? The Pistons were nothing to sneeze at. LeBron had to play out of his mind in G5 in Detroit to get past them.

And Gibson had to play out of his mind to close out the Pistons in Game 6. At the start of the 4th qtr the game was practically tied up until Gibson went crazy and closed Detroit out with a 19 point 4th qtr sending the Cavs to the Finals. You never hear him get any credit though.

[dh144498]

I remember game 1. He almost recorded a triple double. Attempted 19 free throws to score 20 points. Very beautiful game in which the Cavs came short. :cry:

Anyway, he was only 22 years old. Cut him some slack folks.

:biggums:

well it was game 6 against Detroit, I think you read it wrong on basketball reference. :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

And Gibson had to play out of his mind to close out the Pistons in Game 6. At the start of the 4th qtr the game was practically tied up until Gibson went crazy and closed Detroit out with a 19 point 4th qtr sending the Cavs to the Finals. You never hear him get any credit though.

Yea, I wonder why Gibson had so many open threes. Must have been all the attention Larry Hughes was drawing.

[salwan]

:applause:

[hitmanyr2k]

Yea, I wonder why Gibson had so many open threes. Must have been all the attention Larry Hughes was drawing.

No, actually it was Damon Jones for some reason lol. Not sure what the hell the Detroit defense was doing giving that dude so much defensive attention :oldlol:

[Mass Debator]

:biggums:

well it was game 6 against Detroit, I think you read it wrong on basketball reference. :oldlol:
Oh shiz you're right :lol

[Ne 1]

The Pistons were nothing to sneeze at. LeBron had to play out of his mind in G5 in Detroit to get past them.

Calling a depleted Pistons squad without Ben Wallace "nothing to sneeze at" is being generous. They were a poor mans version of the 2003-2006 Pistons squads. They made a huge mistake not resigning Wallace.


The '07 Cavs didn't have the best names on paper, but they were an elite team defensively and on the boards. Not to mention the 2007 East could very well go down as the worst conference in the history of the NBA. Iverson, Kidd and Howard also made the Finals as well in the East with casts that weren't very talented. Putting things into perspective, it's not this incredible accomplishment some people like to believe.

Don't let one stunning game fool you. LeBron was actually not all that impressive in the 2007 ECF. He played poor that series. I laugh at people who clearly forget this or never bothered watching. He was terrible the first two games of the series. Like really, really bad. And even in the clinching game of the series, it was Boobie Gibson's clutch shooting for something like 31 points that sealed the deal. LeBron didn't even play well in that game.

Let's break down the games the Cavs won:

Game 3: Lebron carried the load with 32/9/9, but a big key was also Cleveland's defense holding Detroit to 82 points, funny how you ignore that and act like basketball is just one side of the game. So with Cleveland's defense doing such a great job, Lebron didn't need that much offensive support, having 3 teammates in double figures(Big Z- 16, Pavlovic- 13, Gooden- 12) was more than enough.

Game 4: Lebron had 25/7/11, but again, Cleveland held Detroit to just 87 points and Daniel Gibson scored 21 points on great efficiency(4/7 from the field, 12/12 from the line) and Gooden also had 19/8.

Game 5: This is about as close as a player can come to winning a game by himself, we all know about Lebron's phenomenal performance

Game 6: Lebron had 20/14/8, though his efficiency was horrendous (3/11 FG, 14/19 FT), but again Cleveland's defense shut down Detroit. The Pistons scored just 82 points and Daniel Gibson led all scorers with 31 points on amazing efficiency(7/9 FG, 5/5 3P, 12/15 FT).

The only legitimate team he face, in 2007, the Spurs stuck Bowen on James alone. All he did was sag off James, and let the dude shoot jumpers and he ended up having the worst Finals showing I've EVER seen for a player of Jame's caliber.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Ne_1, why aren't you posting on your MJForever account?

[PrettyCool]

Lebrons game 5 explosion against the Pistons was one of the greatest moments in NBA history.

[Nebraskanball]

Ne_1, why aren't you posting on your MJForever account?
Man, you're getting destroyed in this thread. Not a good showing for you.

[dh144498]

Ne_1, why aren't you posting on your MJForever account?

Silkk, why aren't you posting on your

RocketGreatness
StateofMind12
WockaVodka
MiamiThrice
TonyMontana
WeaponX2024
iTruWarrior
DreamShake24
TmacsRockets
RedZiggyZag
ArizaAttack24
DominantElement
BrianDawkins20
iLoveNBA
FinalCountdown
ClutchCover

accounts?

[Sarcastic]

Winning a title with Wade and Bosh is close to being as overrated.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Winning a title with Wade and Bosh is close to being as overrated.

Yea, its not like Wade/Bosh weren't 100% or anything like that. LeBron had made you real butthurt, son.

[Dengness9]

Nobody besides maybe Jordan could have taken that team to the Finals. Shaq needed superstar help basically every year he ever won a title.

Kobe? :roll: LeBron led that Cavs team past a Pistons team that not too long ago shut Kobe down in the Finals to the tune of 38.1 FG%. And that was when he had maybe the most stacked team ever in prime Shaq, Malone AND Payton! No effing way would Kobe get them to the Finals. He needs prime Shaq and/or prime Gasol/Odom/Bynum to reach the Finals.


Washed up old ass Malone and Payton?!

Somebody is reaching way too hard over here. Frontrunner bandwagon ho's know so little.

[2010splash]

Washed up old ass Malone and Payton?!

Somebody is reaching way too hard over here. Frontrunner bandwagon ho's know so little.
Malone who averaged 21/8/5 the year before and Payton who averaged 20/4/8 the year before? So he had two all stars and the best player in the league and still lost. Owned.

[hitmanyr2k]

Nobody besides maybe Jordan could have taken that team to the Finals. Shaq needed superstar help basically every year he ever won a title.

Kobe? :roll: LeBron led that Cavs team past a Pistons team that not too long ago shut Kobe down in the Finals to the tune of 38.1 FG%. And that was when he had maybe the most stacked team ever in prime Shaq, Malone AND Payton! No effing way would Kobe get them to the Finals. He needs prime Shaq and/or prime Gasol/Odom/Bynum to reach the Finals.

Stop being ignorant. The Pistons in '07 (3 seasons later) weren't quite the same Pistons team that shut down Kobe and the Lakers in the '04 Finals. The '07 team didn't have the same hunger or discipline, had a different (and inferior) coach in Flip Saunders instead of Larry Brown and finally their 4x DPOY defensive anchor in Ben Wallace was gone.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Malone who averaged 21/8/5 the year before and Payton who averaged 20/4/8 the year before? So he had two all stars and the best player in the league and still lost. Owned.

lol this. I love when people pull the "washed-up" card about Payton/Malone :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

More overrated than that?

Easily Dirk being the SOLE reason for the 2011 Mavs winning a ring.

Faced a un-motivated defending champion Lakers squad, sans their 2nd best player. Then faced an un-motivated LeBron and the Heat in the Finals.

He was surrounded with players who provided substantial help, but because they're not all big names or superstars, we act like he dragged scrubs to a ring.

DMAVS41 will have a fit, but it's the truth.

[hitmanyr2k]

Nobody besides maybe Jordan could have taken that team to the Finals. Shaq needed superstar help basically every year he ever won a title.

Kobe? :roll: LeBron led that Cavs team past a Pistons team that not too long ago shut Kobe down in the Finals to the tune of 38.1 FG%. And that was when he had maybe the most stacked team ever in prime Shaq, Malone AND Payton! No effing way would Kobe get them to the Finals. He needs prime Shaq and/or prime Gasol/Odom/Bynum to reach the Finals.

Stop being ignorant. The Pistons in '07 (3 seasons later) weren't quite the same Pistons team that shut down Kobe and the Lakers in the '04 Finals. The '07 team didn't have the same hunger or discipline, had a different (and inferior) coach in Flip Saunders instead of Larry Brown and finally their 4x DPOY defensive anchor in Ben Wallace was gone. And don't get me started on the 04-05 rule changes that killed defense just in time when Lebron came into the league.

[dh144498]

Stop being ignorant. The Pistons in '07 (3 seasons later) weren't quite the same Pistons team that shut down Kobe and the Lakers in the '04 Finals. The '07 team didn't have the same hunger or discipline, had a different (and inferior) coach in Flip Saunders instead of Larry Brown and finally their 4x DPOY defensive anchor in Ben Wallace was gone. And don't get me started on the 04-05 rule changes that killed defense just in time when Lebron came into the league.

this. Lebron stans like to change history to make lebron look better.

[DMAVS41]

More overrated than that?

Easily Dirk being the SOLE reason for the 2011 Mavs winning a ring.

Faced a un-motivated defending champion Lakers squad, sans their 2nd best player. Then faced an un-motivated LeBron and the Heat in the Finals.

He was surrounded with players who provided substantial help, but because they're not all big names or superstars, we act like he dragged scrubs to a ring.

DMAVS41 will have a fit, but it's the truth.

Well, Dirk didn't carry scrubs to a ring. So I won't have a fit with you saying that he didn't...I actually agree.

Disagree on the strength of the competition...I'd like for you to point out which years you thought the road to the title was more difficult than playing two series as huge underdogs (on the road)...a healthy Thunder team...and a Blazers team that everyone agreed before the playoffs was super dangerous.

I'll be waiting...you won't find many. Just like you won't find many championship teams without much better help than Dirk had.

[Ne 1]

Malone who averaged 21/8/5 the year before and Payton who averaged 20/4/8 the year before? So he had two all stars and the best player in the league and still lost. Owned.

Owned? So this is gino/DMAVS41

[TheMarkMadsen]

More overrated than that?

Easily Dirk being the SOLE reason for the 2011 Mavs winning a ring.

Faced a un-motivated defending champion Lakers squad, sans their 2nd best player. Then faced an un-motivated LeBron and the Heat in the Finals.

He was surrounded with players who provided substantial help, but because they're not all big names or superstars, we act like he dragged scrubs to a ring.

DMAVS41 will have a fit, but it's the truth.

"An un motivated Lebron and HEAT"

OK Skip Bayless :facepalm

[Nebraskanball]

Malone who averaged 21/8/5 the year before and Payton who averaged 20/4/8 the year before? So he had two all stars and the best player in the league and still lost. Owned.
Who cares about "the year before?" What'd they put up THAT year?
Oh yeah...Malone was 13 pts, 8 rpg, and was 40 YEARS OLD.
Oh, and that BEAST Payton? 14, 5, 4 at 35 years old.

But please make arguments that have nothing to do with the topic. Keep acting like Malone was in his prime...at the same age as current Juwan Howard. Lmao.

[dh144498]

Owned? So this is gino/DMAVS41

:roll: :lol

[Ikill]

More overrated than that?

Easily Dirk being the SOLE reason for the 2011 Mavs winning a ring.

Faced a un-motivated defending champion Lakers squad, sans their 2nd best player. Then faced an un-motivated LeBron and the Heat in the Finals.

He was surrounded with players who provided substantial help, but because they're not all big names or superstars, we act like he dragged scrubs to a ring.

DMAVS41 will have a fit, but it's the truth.
Saying Dirk carried scrubs to a ring is more reasonable than saying Lebron did because Dirk actually played good. I don't know how anyone can say Lebron carried scrubs to the finals when he had terrible game after terrible game while his team was still able to win games.

[blood yes]

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8068148/nba-playoffs-top-25-performances-ever

ESPN ranked lebron's performance g5 against the pistons as a top 5 performance of ALL TIME.

ANYONE, and i repeat, ANYONE who watched the nba in 2007, hater or not, knew how special lebron's performance was. It was incredible, he was knocking down INCREDIBLY difficult shots

Whether you hate him or not, lebron had a legendary g5 against the pistons

[SamuraiSWISH]

Saying Dirk carried scrubs to a ring is more reasonable than saying Lebron did because Dirk actually played good.
That's my point. Dirk was good, people literally were so caught up in the moment they said he was "great" ... he did NOT have an all time great playoffs or Finals.

And yes, Dirk had PLENTY of help. He had playmakers, defenders, shot blockers, rebounders ... he even had super smart veteran team leaders to ease his pain.

It's an overrated run. Especially on ISH. No one else where hypes it as much as some clowns do on here.

[DMAVS41]

That's my point. Dirk was good, people literally were so caught up in the moment they said he was "great" ... he did NOT have an all time great playoffs or Finals.

And yes, Dirk had PLENTY of help. He had playmakers, defenders, shot blockers, rebounders ... he even had super smart veteran team leaders to ease his pain.

It's an overrated run. Especially on ISH. No one else where hypes it as much as some clowns do on here.

Actually Dirk did...it was the most clutch playoff performance we've seen since Jordan.

Dirk's raw stats weren't what made it so legendary.

16 of the 21 games the Mavs played in the playoffs that year were within 5 points with 5 minutes left. Dirk in that time per 36 min.;

48 points / 8 boards / 3 assists on 54/60/97 shooting splits and the Mavs were plus 53 points over those minutes.

That is absurd and absolutely legendary...and exactly why the Mavs won. If Dirk doesn't put up some of the best clutch performances we've ever seen...the Mavs simply don't win.

[tpols]

he did NOT have an all time great playoffs

Complete bullshit.



or Finals.


Truth.. But he did close out 3 of those wins with incredibly clutch plays with the whole Heat defense hanging off him.

[DMAVS41]

Complete bullshit.



Truth.. But he did close out 3 of those wins with incredibly clutch plays with the whole Heat defense hanging off him.

Yes. The one thing that is over-rated is his finals performance. It was good, but not great. His flu game skews the numbers a bit, but Dirk was awful in the first half of game 6 and very lucky his teammates stepped up and allowed him to close the deal in the 2nd half and 4th with some big plays/shots.

But I'm still waiting to hear how 28/8/3 on 61% TS with one of the best clutch performances of all time...going through a very tough road to the title...playing with weak help historically....isn't a great title run.

[AintNoSunshine]

Who cares about "the year before?" What'd they put up THAT year?
Oh yeah...Malone was 13 pts, 8 rpg, and was 40 YEARS OLD.
Oh, and that BEAST Payton? 14, 5, 4 at 35 years old.

But please make arguments that have nothing to do with the topic. Keep acting like Malone was in his prime...at the same age as current Juwan Howard. Lmao.


I love your logic very much, can you apply that to Lebron please? or are we having double standards:lol Lebron's second option this playoffs: 14ppg still carries the team to the finals and soon championship :bowdown: LeGOAT?

[Nezty]

Daniel Gibson, a rookie 2nd round pick PG was his 2nd option by the time they got to the ECF.


You mean the same Daniel Gibson that bailed LeBron out from choking in game 6? The only reason the series didn't go to game 7 was because of Boobie you fool. Had they gone to game 7 they would have lost in Detroit.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200706020CLE.html

And how wouldn't Kobe lead this team to the Finals when he lead a team with Smush, Kwame, Walton, and Mihm to the playoffs.

[hitmanyr2k]

I love your logic very much, can you apply that to Lebron please? or are we having double standards:lol Lebron's second option this playoffs: 14ppg still carries the team to the finals and soon championship :bowdown: LeGOAT?

Barring the Finals the Heat's playoff competition has been sub-par to put it generously. In fact this is probably the worst the Eastern Conference has been since 2007.

[Solefade]

You mean the same Daniel Gibson that bailed LeBron out from choking in game 6? The only reason the series didn't go to game 7 was because of Boobie you fool. Had they gone to game 7 they would have lost in Detroit.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200706020CLE.html

And how wouldn't Kobe lead this team to the Finals when he lead a team with Smush, Kwame, Walton, and Mihm to the playoffs.


You are seriously talking out of your ass.

LBJ had 20/14/8 in Game 6 and won by 16 points...how is that "almost choking"?

And I LOVE how you (and most Kobetards) leave out Odom like it's no big deal. Odom was better than anyone on the Cavs that year and it's not like you didn't have Phil Jackson. :facepalm

[STATUTORY]

Owned? So this is gino/DMAVS41

:roll: he logged on to his main account after this

[Nezty]

You are seriously talking out of your ass.

LBJ had 20/14/8 in Game 6 and won by 16 points...how is that "almost choking"?

And I LOVE how you (and most Kobetards) leave out Odom like it's no big deal. Odom was better than anyone on the Cavs that year and it's not like you didn't have Phil Jackson. :facepalm


Those are blind stats, Look at his FG% he only made 3 shots the whole game. The rebounds? That's nothing, Boobie is only 6'2" and pulled down almost half of what LeBron rebounded. They out rebounded the Pistons by 20 so there were plenty of boards for everybody. They won by 16 because of Boobie not LeBron. I watched that game, I seen Boobie rip my Pistons.

Odom was good but not much better than Big Z. Larry Hughes was better than Smush, Gooden better than Cook.

[chazzy]

It's a little overrated if you don't put the competition in context. Cavs were the 3rd best defensive team and this was before Lebron was considered a great defender. He shot 41% for the playoff run.. and a bunch of those finals games were close

[blood yes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU

Greatest game ever by LeBron :bowdown: :bowdown:

[MavsSuperFan]

LeGawd taking those scrubs to the finals was a miracle. We should start a petition for the catholic church to canonize him as a saint.

[caliman]

You mean the same Daniel Gibson that bailed LeBron out from choking in game 6? The only reason the series didn't go to game 7 was because of Boobie you fool. Had they gone to game 7 they would have lost in Detroit.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200706020CLE.html

And how wouldn't Kobe lead this team to the Finals when he lead a team with Smush, Kwame, Walton, and Mihm to the playoffs.


You're taking a hypothetical and trying to prove an absolute. :roll:

We don't know what would have happened in a Game 7, but we do know LeBron had a game for the ages in Game 5 and led the charge in Game 6. After all, despite shooting poorly, Gibson was not creating shots for himself.

And you forgot to mention that Kobe blew a 3-1 lead with a scrub team, so I don't see how that leads one to logically conclude that he would have led another scrub team to the Finals.

[Ikill]

You are seriously talking out of your ass.

LBJ had 20/14/8 in Game 6 and won by 16 points...how is that "almost choking"?

And I LOVE how you (and most Kobetards) leave out Odom like it's no big deal. Odom was better than anyone on the Cavs that year and it's not like you didn't have Phil Jackson. :facepalm
He played 46 minutes that game the rebounds and assists are inflated he also shot 27% from the field.

[Ikill]

LeGawd taking those scrubs to the finals was a miracle. We should start a petition for the catholic church to canonize him as a saint.
If they were such scrubs how were they able to keep the games so close in the finals despite Lebron terrible series. They lost by 1 point in game 4 and they lost by 3 points in game 3. They were also a top 5 defense in the NBA that year

[sc19]

If they were such scrubs how were they able to keep the games so close in the finals despite Lebron terrible series. They lost by 1 point in game 4 and they lost by 3 points in game 3. They were also a top 5 defense in the NBA that year
Look at Cavs record after LeBron leaves. :roll:

[Fallen Angel]

T-Mac would have made it to the Finals with that cast.

Playing with soft, quickly winded Yao in the West with abysmal surrounding pieces is much harder than getting at least a semi-decent cast in the East.

Tracy McGrady would have lost in the 2nd round with LeBron's team. Tracy McGrady had decent enough talent to win at least in the first round of the playoffs especially in 2007. He was mostly guarded by Derek Fisher. I don't remember his average but his FG percentage was terrible.

Yao couldn't guard Boozer but Tracy also didn't have his way against Fisher. C'mon, it's Derek Fisher we're talking about here. He should have dominated him. Admit it, McGrady is mentally weak and always took terrible shots.

[Nezty]

You're taking a hypothetical and trying to prove an absolute. :roll:

We don't know what would have happened in a Game 7, but we do know LeBron had a game for the ages in Game 5 and led the charge in Game 6. After all, despite shooting poorly, Gibson was not creating shots for himself.

And you forgot to mention that Kobe blew a 3-1 lead with a scrub team, so I don't see how that leads one to logically conclude that he would have led another scrub team to the Finals.

You're right, I'm just assuming Detroit would have won at home, LeBron had a great game 5 but chocked on game 6. Boobie didn't creat his own shot but none the less he hit them. The point being Boobie bailed out LeBron, so that carrying myth is a lie.

The Suns were a lot better than New Jersey and Washington. Assuming you trade LeBron and Kobe, Kobe would be playing NJ and WAS.

[Ikill]

Look at Cavs record after LeBron leaves. :roll:
Whats your point the 2011 Cavs roster is completely different than the 2007 Cavs roster. The Cavs were 3-1 without Lebron in 2007 they were a top 5 defense and they were winning games where lebron was playing like garbage.

[Ikill]

You're right, I'm just assuming Detroit would have won at home, LeBron had a great game 5 but chocked on game 6. Boobie didn't creat his own shot but none the less he hit them. The point being Boobie bailed out LeBron, so that carrying myth is a lie.

The Suns were a lot better than New Jersey and Washington. Assuming you trade LeBron and Kobe, Kobe would be playing NJ and WAS.
You also can't ignore the Cavs defense and rebounding in that game 6 the Cavs help the Pistons to 82 points and grabbed 20 more rebounds.

[Magic 32]

Not only was 07 not that impressive, let's drink in the following elemination series for Lebron.

Playing with his "scrub" team, he managed to be 2-2 against the 2008 Celtics with these four performances:

http://oi42.tinypic.com/vfi5mq.jpg

and they could have won game 1 if Lebron made an open layup.

What awful team he had.:facepalm

[MavsSuperFan]

If they were such scrubs how were they able to keep the games so close in the finals despite Lebron terrible series. They lost by 1 point in game 4 and they lost by 3 points in game 3. They were also a top 5 defense in the NBA that year

You deny the divinity that is LeGawd, hater.

[HardwoodLegend]

Tracy McGrady would have lost in the 2nd round with LeBron's team. Tracy McGrady had decent enough talent to win at least in the first round of the playoffs especially in 2007. He was mostly guarded by Derek Fisher. I don't remember his average but his FG percentage was terrible.

Yao couldn't guard Boozer but Tracy also didn't have his way against Fisher. C'mon, it's Derek Fisher we're talking about here. He should have dominated him. Admit it, McGrady is mentally weak and always took terrible shots.

I'm talking about T-Mac at his best in the Eastern Conference.

2007 is somewhat irrelevant, because his body as already in the process of breaking down. Shoulder, back and knee issues were starting to flare already at that point. That's why his shot selection got worse and worse as years went by. Earlier in his career, he attacked more consistently.

[The-Legend-24]

One thing is for damn sure though, no way Jordan takes that team to the finals. LeBron does everything better than him, even scoring.

[DMV2]

I'm talking about T-Mac at his best in the Eastern Conference.

2007 is somewhat irrelevant, because his body as already in the process of breaking down. Shoulder, back and knee issues were starting to flare already at that point. That's why his shot selection got worse and worse as years went by. Earlier in his career, he attacked more consistently.
McGrady at his best in the East got knocked out of the playoffs by Baron Davis-led Hornets. McGrady at his best in the East choked a 3-1 series lead against the Pistons. McGrady at his best in the East missed the playoffs after going 2-18 to start off the 2003-04 season.

He was a great regular season player but he wasn't so great in the playoffs. There's a reason why he never advance past the 1st Round he was healthy and was the team leader.

[Fallen Angel]

I'm talking about T-Mac at his best in the Eastern Conference.

2007 is somewhat irrelevant, because his body as already in the process of breaking down. Shoulder, back and knee issues were starting to flare already at that point. That's why his shot selection got worse and worse as years went by. Earlier in his career, he attacked more consistently.

If 2007 is irrelevant why did you bring up Yao? Either way, in 2007 McGrady was still healthy enough to perform at an extremely high level. 2008 was his first significant drop off year. McGrady's shot selection was always questionable even as a Magic. He settled too much and it showed in the playoffs.


McGrady at his best in the East got knocked out of the playoffs by Baron Davis-led Hornets. McGrady at his best in the East choked a 3-1 against the Piston. McGrady at his best in the East missed the playoffs after going 2-18 to start off the 2003-04 season.

He was a great regular season player but he wasn't so great in the playoffs. There's a reason why he never advance past the 1st Round he was healthy and was the team leader.

:biggums: What are you on about? McGrady was a terrific playoff performer, his playoff numbers are exceptional. He had a horrible supporting cast in Orlando.

[Ikill]

One thing is for damn sure though, no way Jordan takes that team to the finals. LeBron does everything better than him, even scoring.
I don't think Jordan ever had a postseason as bad as Lebrons 2007 postseason

[HardwoodLegend]

If 2007 is irrelevant why did you bring up Yao? Either way, in 2007 McGrady was still healthy enough to perform at an extremely high level. 2008 was his first significant drop off year. McGrady's shot selection was always questionable even as a Magic. He settled too much and it showed in the playoffs.

They should have advanced in 2005 against Dallas. T-Mac brought it on both ends of the floor in a major way, playing solid defense on Dirk at times.

Yao wasn't on the floor very much and it killed Houston's chances due to the pieces they had around the duo.

[HardwoodLegend]

McGrady at his best in the East got knocked out of the playoffs by Baron Davis-led Hornets. McGrady at his best in the East choked a 3-1 series lead against the Pistons. McGrady at his best in the East missed the playoffs after going 2-18 to start off the 2003-04 season.

He was a great regular season player but he wasn't so great in the playoffs. There's a reason why he never advance past the 1st Round he was healthy and was the team leader.

The same guy had an 8th seed with a miraculous 3-1 lead over the top seed that won the championship next year, and you're gonna pin the 2-18 start on him? You're just going to completely absolve his abysmal cast from any blame?

He leads a Western conference team to the playoffs the next year and puts up a valiant battle, yet you're still going to say he's the reason for the 2003-04 debacle?

:facepalm

[Magic 32]

you're gonna pin the 2-18 start on him? You're just going to completely absolve his abysmal cast from any blame?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdeqTcdauyU&t=3m45s

[Fallen Angel]

They should have advanced in 2005 against Dallas. T-Mac brought it on both ends of the floor in a major way, playing solid defense on Dirk at times.

Yao wasn't on the floor very much and it killed Houston's chances due to the pieces they had around the duo.

You said earlier McGrady played with a soft Yao. Not seeing the floor much had nothing to do with Yao being soft or lacking stamina. Simply put he wasn't a dominant center just yet. That was what, his 3rd year? Houston shouldn't have won that series. They had no business being up 2-0 in the first place considering the talent McGrady had around him.

By "talent" I mean the starting back-court and the starting PF. Ryan Bowen and Padgett started for Houston that year. T-Mac played extremely well on both ends of the court but Dallas was the better team. That doesn't necessarily translate to Yao being soft or detrimental to his team which is why I decided to respond to your first post.

2007 is a completely different story though. Tracy had prime Yao and still blew a 2-0 lead. In 2007 Tracy had already gone through a few injuries but could still performe at an extremely high level. He choked that series away.

[TheMarkMadsen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdeqTcdauyU&t=3m45s


Ether.

[bdreason]

You could make the same argument through most of the 2000's. The East was weak, and the road to the Finals wasn't a terribly difficult one. That said, teams can only beat who is placed in front of them, and shouldn't be degraded for conquering an inferior conference.

[TheBigVeto]

Yep there is. It's called Kobe Bryant doing anything.

[greymatter]

Nobody besides maybe Jordan could have taken that team to the Finals.

Jordan is the greatest overall talent to have played the game, but that doesn't translate to greatest ability to generate team success.

No, Jordan wouldn't have come anywhere close to taking a team featuring Larry 40% Hughes and Z. Ilgauskas as the 2nd/3rd best players to the finals.

[Nezty]

How the fcuk did this turn in to a Dirk and TMac thread? Only in ISH :facepalm

[guy]

One thing is for damn sure though, no way Jordan takes that team to the finals. LeBron does everything better than him, even scoring.

:oldlol:

[Ikill]

Jordan is the greatest overall talent to have played the game, but that doesn't translate to greatest ability to generate team success.

No, Jordan wouldn't have come anywhere close to taking a team featuring Larry 40% Hughes and Z. Ilgauskas as the 2nd/3rd best players to the finals.
Lebron did not even play good Michael Jordan has never had a postseason as bad as Lebrons 2007. Lebron wasn't the reason the Cavs go to the finals it was their defense and rebounding that lead them.