Kobe 08-10 or Lebron 11-13

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

3 strait finals. 1 mvp 2fmvp for kobe, 2 mvp and prolly 2 fmvp for lebron:confusedshrug:both 3x all star 3xallnba1st 3x alld1st

[SamuraiSWISH]

If LeBron wins a ring this year, with FMVP then you have to go with him ... if not it remains to be Kobe. Both took their team to 3 straight Finals. LeBron had a historically pathetic Finals showing in 2011, however. He won 2x MVPs, Kobe should've won it in 2010.

[funnystuff]

Lebron is the better player in every aspect.

[SyRyanYang]

Lebron still got a final series to play but the edge goes to Lebron unless he chokes big time. Comes from a Kobe stan.

[imnew09]

If Lebron accomplished such feat at Cleveland I will choose him over Kobe, but no... he joined motherfken SUPERSTARS Wade, and Bosh.

[TheReal Kendall]

I'll take the unselfish player that can coexist with other superstars on his team

[K Xerxes]

If LeBron wins a ring this year, with FMVP then you have to go with him ... if not it remains to be Kobe. Both took their team to 3 straight Finals. LeBron had a historically pathetic Finals showing in 2011, however. He won 2x MVPs, Kobe should've won it in 2010.

You think Kobe should have won the regular season MVP in 2010...?

[SamuraiSWISH]

You think Kobe should have won the regular season MVP in 2010...?
I view MVP of the entire season to be including regular and post season play ...

I'm not an idiotic member of the press.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I'll take the unselfish player that can coexist with other superstars on his team

For 3 years and playoffs
Pau-18/10/3/2 55% shoot
Wade-21/6/4 47% shoot
Bosh-15/8/1 47% shoot

If lebron can coexist what happen 2011 finals:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: what happen to wade and bosh now:confusedshrug:

[K Xerxes]

I view MVP of the entire season to be including regular and post season play ...

I'm not an idiotic member of the press.

Right, LeBron stunk it up against Boston for sure, especially in the last couple of games, but he was better than Kobe throughout the rest of the season.

I still say LeBron has been the best player in the league since '09. '10 is debatable, '11 is VERY debatable because of the finals debacle.

As for the topic, LeBron... no question. At his peak and the way he's currently playing, he's simply better than any version Kobe. I don't need individual accolades or rings to validate that.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Right, LeBron stunk it up against Boston for sure, especially in the last couple of games, but he was better than Kobe throughout the rest of the season.
Right, and Kobe was clearly better in the playoffs. An MVP of an entire season should be accumulative. The playoffs is a part of that season. Playoff dominance is more impressive to me.

Kobe 2008, 2010 MVP
LeBron 2009, 2012, 2013 MVP

[Deuce Bigalow]

Regular Season: Lebron
Playoffs: Kobe

Kobe 08-10 Playoffs
30-6-6-2-1 46fg/57ts/50efg

Lebron 11-13 Playoffs so far:
27-9-6-2-1 49fg/58ts/53efg

Kobe's best series 08-10
34-7-8 64ts - 10 WCF
34-6-6 63ts - 09 WCF
33-7-7 63ts - 08 WCSF
34-5-6 50fg - 08 WC1Rd

Lebron's best series 11-13 so far
34-11-4 59ts - 12 ECF
30-11-6 56ts - 12 ECSF
29-7-5 51fg - 13 ECF

[avonbarksdale]

kobe had a weaker team and still had 2rings/fvmp... kobe

[DMV2]

Right, and Kobe was clearly better in the playoffs. An MVP of an entire season should be accumulative. The playoffs is a part of that season. Playoff dominance is more impressive to me.

Kobe 2008, 2010 MVP
LeBron 2009, 2012, 2013 MVP
So who was your 2011 MVP?

LeBon was playing like the MVP until the Finals.

Rose was shit against LeBron and the Heat.

Dirk had a great playoff run but his regular season was reserved, prob due to his December injury. What I mean by reserved is that he played like a mistake-free QB (Flacco, pre-2007 Brady) rather than your gun-slinging Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers who were majority of the time the best QB whenever they step on the field. In a way, you can say Dirk reserved his elevated game for the playoffs.

[Kurosawa0]

Lebron and its not even close.

[Ca$H]

2005-2006 Kobe aka prime Jordan.

[NumberSix]

Is this a real question?

[NumberSix]

I view MVP of the entire season to be including regular and post season play ...

I'm not an idiotic member of the press.
I view the MVP as the best player from January to April.

[lefthook00]

LeBron teamed up, you really can't' ignore that. But you also can't ignore that the Lakers had Phil. Kobe and LeBron were pretty similar, situationally. They were both being doubted so hard before they won their 1st ring as the main guy. And they both lost in the finals the year before. Great leaders and all-around players, great defenders, LeBron guarded Rose for a lil while but Kobe shut down Rondo and Westbrook.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Regular Season: Lebron
Playoffs: Kobe

Kobe 08-10 Playoffs
30-6-6-2-1 46fg/57ts/50efg

Lebron 11-13 Playoffs so far:
27-9-6-2-1 49fg/58ts/53efg

Kobe's best series 08-10
34-7-8 64ts - 10 WCF
34-6-6 63ts - 09 WCF
33-7-7 63ts - 08 WCSF
34-5-6 50fg - 08 WC1Rd

Lebron's best series 11-13 so far
34-11-4 59ts - 12 ECF
30-11-6 56ts - 12 ECSF
29-7-5 51fg - 13 ECF

Kobe 6-24 from the field in 2010 NBA Finals Game 7.
:facepalm

[DMV2]

LeBron teamed up, you really can't' ignore that. But you also can't ignore that the Lakers had Phil. Kobe and LeBron were pretty similar, situationally. They were both being doubted so hard before they won their 1st ring as the main guy. And they both lost in the finals the year before. Great leaders and all-around players, great defenders, LeBron guarded Rose for a lil while but Kobe shut down Rondo and Westbrook.
That 2010 1st Round series was Westbrook's and Durant's first playoff experience.

I guess Westbrook's great 2012 performance was all because Sessions was guarding him then?

[Doctor Rivers]

Lebron and its not even close.

Kobe and it's not even close.

[lefthook00]

That 2010 1st Round series was Westbrook's and Durant's first playoff experience.

I guess Westbrook's great 2012 performance was all because Sessions was guarding him then?

Sure, everything is factored in. Kobe's defense really fell off after his title runs, he really put everything into it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe 6-24 from the field in 2010 NBA Finals Game 7.
:facepalm
Kobe 5
Nets 0

[HurricaneKid]

Is this a real question?

I just had a long post devoured but I can't bring myself to bother writing it again. Because the question is so silly.

In 2010 Kobe was second on his TEAM in WS, PER, Playoff WS, Finals WS. He wasn't in the top 10 in PER or WS. He was not in the top 3 in the NBA in either stat in the other two years either.

LeBron was 1st in PER and WS in all three seasons.

I should just use threads like this to update my ignore list.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kobe 5
Nets 0


You see, typical response from a troll who talks about how other posters team sucks compared to theirs in a counter-attack, ignorant of the fact that it is totally irrelevant to the topic being discussed. Anyway Nets have two titles, ABA titles count.
:lol

And 5 rings? 3 were Shaq's gifts, it was all Shaq's one man show, the other players were simply role players or complete non-factors. Robert Horry had 7 rings btw.

[Heavincent]

Lebron and its not even close.

:oldlol:

[Heavincent]

I just had a long post devoured but I can't bring myself to bother writing it again. Because the question is so silly.

In 2010 Kobe was second on his TEAM in WS, PER, Playoff WS, Finals WS. He wasn't in the top 10 in PER or WS. He was not in the top 3 in the NBA in either stat in the other two years either.

LeBron was 1st in PER and WS in all three seasons.

I should just use threads like this to update my ignore list.

Advanced stats :oldlol:

Didn't Kobe lead the 01 Lakers in WS? And Hakeem didn't lead the 95 Rockets in WS if I remember correctly.

Regardless, WS and PER are irrelevant.

[NASH = BEST]

Agree with everyone posting Lebron IF he wins this one.

[DMAVS41]

I think it's clearly Lebron...unless he chokes again in the finals this year.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Is this a real question?
OF course it is nikka:coleman:

[PickernRoller]

OF course it is nikka:coleman:

Actually, it's a trick question. Cause it's obviously Kobe.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Actually, it's a trick question. Cause it's obviously Kobe.
Regular season-Lebron
Playoffs-Kobe
:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[LoneyROY7]

http://i.minus.com/izshHWbMtCPYB.gif

[Chrono90]

Kobe.

1) Choke job in 2011 finals by Lebron
2) Lebron joined two other franchise players in their prime.

From actually watching them play, Kobe killed it with jumpshots and lebron did it by attacking the basket. I give it to Kobe.

[Magic 32]

The funny thing is, Kobe's peak was 06-08, not 08-10.

He was sliding out of his prime when he finally got a contending team (and still found a way to win).

Put 06-08 version of Kobe on this Miami team and ......look out!

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Lebron and its not even close.
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[Doranku]

Kobe didn't play very well against the Celtics in '08, but LeBron was far worse against a much inferior team.

'09 Kobe and '12 LeBron both dominated the playoffs and won finals/FMVP in 5 games.

'10 Kobe in the finals was much better than LeBron has been so far, and in the playoffs as a whole.


LeBron was the superior regular season performer, but who gives a f*ck about that besides d!ckriders like Kurosawa? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Kobe and it ain't close. Lock it up, mods.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Regular Season - LeBron
Playoffs - Kobe

2011 and 2013 in consideration, especially his performance in these Finals. I don't see much debate. LeBron's 2012 run was impressive, marginally better than Kobe's 2008 because he won the chip, and Kobe's 2009 run is almost as impressive as LeBron's 2012. The way things are shaping up elsewhere, Kobe has him in the other two seasons. In 2011, LeBron wasn't even definitively his team's best player. Kobe was easily his team's best player for each of these three seasons.

[dh144498]

even if Lebron wins this year, Kobe's 3 year run is still way better. Not to mention Kobe is just a flat out better overall player than Lebron and actually makes his superstar teammates better. And I haven't even mentioned playing along side 1 star vs playing along side 2 stars.

[imnew09]

Kobe 6-24 from the field in 2010 NBA Finals Game 7.
:facepalm


Lebron 0 points in the fourth quarter against Dallas... :bowdown:

[Electric Slide]

accomplishments - Kobe
better player - Lebron

simple as that.

[DMAVS41]

A month ago I would have said for sure Lebron, but if the Heat lose...with Lebron yet again not being able to perform in the finals. It's a toss up.

So if Lebron manages to play well and win this series...it's definitely Lebron.

If they lose...probably just a toss up...although I'd lean towards Kobe.

Lebron's legacy as a for sure top 7 to 10 GOAT is on the line. A loss here and it will be hard for him to ever go higher than that Kobe range of 8 to 10. Just too much failure in the heart of his prime on stacked teams playing historically weak competition.

[francesco totti]

I read this post below , and their runs are very similar if heat win the title this year.
However, I pick kobe despite lebron is more talented.But Lebron has to develop his jumper more, when teams pack the paint he struggles way too much from outside of it.



This 2011-2013 run for Miami is eerily similar to the 2008-2010 run for the Lakers.

2008 Lakers: Lose in the finals to a team with bunch of veterans hungry to get their first ring in six games.
2011 Heat: Lose in the finals to a team with a bunch of veterans hungry to get their first ring in six games.

2009 Lakers: Win the title in five games over an inexperienced team.
2012 Heat: Win the title in five games over an inexperienced team.

2010 Lakers: Go down 3-2 in the finals with final two games at home. Win the title in seven games.
2013 Heat: Go down 3-2 in the finals with final two games at home. ??

[imnew09]

I read this post below , and their runs are very similar if heat win the title this year.
However, I pick kobe despite lebron is more talented.But Lebron has to develop his jumper more, when teams pack the paint he struggles way too much from outside of it.



2008 Lakers: Lose in the finals to a team with bunch of veterans hungry to get their first ring in six games.
2011 Heat: Lose in the finals to a team with a bunch of veterans hungry to get their first ring in six games.

3 Superstars in their absolute prime. LOL. Stop posting.

[dh144498]

2008 Lakers: Lose in the finals to a team with bunch of veterans hungry to get their first ring in six games.
2011 Heat: Lose in the finals to a team with a bunch of veterans hungry to get their first ring in six games.

3 Superstars in their absolute prime. LOL. Stop posting.

:roll:

dat ether.

[The Iron Fist]

Regular Season: Lebron
Playoffs: Kobe

Kobe 08-10 Playoffs
30-6-6-2-1 46fg/57ts/50efg

Lebron 11-13 Playoffs so far:
27-9-6-2-1 49fg/58ts/53efg

Kobe's best series 08-10
34-7-8 64ts - 10 WCF
34-6-6 63ts - 09 WCF
33-7-7 63ts - 08 WCSF
34-5-6 50fg - 08 WC1Rd

Lebron's best series 11-13 so far
34-11-4 59ts - 12 ECF
30-11-6 56ts - 12 ECSF
29-7-5 51fg - 13 ECF
And these lebums say Kobe doesn't have any series better than lechoke.

[Heavincent]

A month ago I would have said for sure Lebron, but if the Heat lose...with Lebron yet again not being able to perform in the finals. It's a toss up.


A toss up? No, not really. If Lebron loses, he has no case over Kobe.

[The Iron Fist]

A toss up? No, not really. If Lebron loses, he has no case over Kobe.
Amazing isn't it? Bron can be 1-2 and it would still be "a toss up". These bums have no shame in displaying their outright hatred and jealousy of the best player of the last 15 years. They try so hard to act impartial but its clear as day they are biased. Kobe was the best player in all three finals runs. Lebron, just one. And another thing , people really need to understand the difference between talent, skill and physical ability. Lebron isn't the most talented or skilled, just has the most physical ability. But that ability means squat if you can bring home the grand prize. Huge joke when people give him passes year after year and call him the best player in the game. He's not. Dude surrounded himself with two other all stars and folds when it matters most. That is not the best player in the game.

[chopchop20]

The funny thing is, Kobe's peak was 06-08, not 08-10.

He was sliding out of his prime when he finally got a contending team (and still found a way to win).

Put 06-08 version of Kobe on this Miami team and ......look out!

Exactly

[Odinn]

Kobe had 7 NBA Finals appearances in his career and in only 2 of them he didn't underperform. But he was never soft mentally.

I agree with this one;
Regular Season: LeBron
Playoffs: Kobe

LeBron is the best player in the league for a few years. And you can make a case for LeBron and/or Wade for being a better player than Kobe in 2008-10 span when you think that span as season-by-season. Kobe wasn't treated like current LeBron during that span.

I'd take '08-'10 Kobe over '11-'13

[chopchop20]

I read this post below , and their runs are very similar if heat win the title this year.
However, I pick kobe despite lebron is more talented.But Lebron has to develop his jumper more, when teams pack the paint he struggles way too much from outside of it.

That's not his biggest flaw. He has very limited off-ball offensive skills. When he doesn't have the ball in his hands, he just stands on the perimeter like a role player.

[chopchop20]

This video says it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv_wKwanldc

[dh144498]

This video says it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv_wKwanldc

:bowdown:

[Ikill]

13 Lebron>12 Lebron>08 Kobe>09 Kobe>10 Kobe>11 Lebron

[DMAVS41]

Amazing isn't it? Bron can be 1-2 and it would still be "a toss up". These bums have no shame in displaying their outright hatred and jealousy of the best player of the last 15 years. They try so hard to act impartial but its clear as day they are biased. Kobe was the best player in all three finals runs. Lebron, just one. And another thing , people really need to understand the difference between talent, skill and physical ability. Lebron isn't the most talented or skilled, just has the most physical ability. But that ability means squat if you can bring home the grand prize. Huge joke when people give him passes year after year and call him the best player in the game. He's not. Dude surrounded himself with two other all stars and folds when it matters most. That is not the best player in the game.

Nah...it's just not overlooking the numerous shortcomings of Kobe over that stretch as well. Like in 10 against the Thunder where if he had the help Lebron had early on in the playoffs this year his team would have lost in 5.

Or when he blew a 24 point lead at home and did nothing to stop it. Or when his team lost a do or die game 6 by 40. Or when he shot 6/24 in the biggest game of his career and got bailed out by his teammates.

I said it was a toss up, but I'd lean towards Kobe. That is just how I feel, but I think it would be a little absurd to sit here and claim Kobe was significantly better than Lebron during that stretch. Just don't see it.

[IGOTGAME]

Nah...it's just not overlooking the numerous shortcomings of Kobe over that stretch as well. Like in 10 against the Thunder where if he had the help Lebron had early on in the playoffs this year his team would have lost in 5.

Or when he blew a 24 point lead at home and did nothing to stop it. Or when his team lost a do or die game 6 by 40. Or when he shot 6/24 in the biggest game of his career and got bailed out by his teammates.

I said it was a toss up, but I'd lean towards Kobe. That is just how I feel, but I think it would be a little absurd to sit here and claim Kobe was significantly better than Lebron during that stretch. Just don't see it.
Kobe always lead those teams. Through good play or bad, he never disappeared on those teams during stretches of close games like Bron has done. That's the difference, Bron isn't leading in these finals and it is trickling down.

[SamuraiSWISH]

13 Lebron>12 Lebron>08 Kobe>09 Kobe>10 Kobe>11 Lebron
It's weird, 2013 LeBron is the best he's been imo from a game / confidence perspective but his playoffs have been trash. 2012 LeBron had the best playoff run of his career due to memorable do or die performances v.s. Indiana and Boston. The latter being one of the best individual playoff performances I've ever seen.

With that said, if Kobe managed to win a ring in 2008, the way he was playing the entire playoffs. That run IMO is actually more impressive than LeBron's 2012 and certainly better than LeBron's 2013 playoff run.

Kobe's 2009 playoff run is already almost comparable to LeBron's 2012. He won with less help, faced tougher playoff seeded teams, although faced a much weaker Finals opponent (one of the worst ever actually) and just didn't have the two memorable stand out games LeBron had. Everything else he was as good or better.

He lead his team over some pretty good squads in Denver, Utah, and San Antonio. Then faced one of the best teams of all-time in the Finals. That 2008 run, even though he lost is undervalued. That was the year Kobe played the right way as leader. He finally matured for a season.

Also to keep in mind: 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 LeBron is basically at his PEAK as a player. 2008 was the last year of Kobe's prime, and in 2009 and even more so in 2010 it was obvious he was starting to decline and was past his prime. To be fair, that should be accounted for all things considering.

[ripthekik]

If the 2013 finals ended with game 5, there is absolutely no chance in hell anyone take Lebron over Kobe. The gap between them in playoff performance is just HUGE. Lebron just gets his stats.. he disappears very often in games.
Kobe is miles better than him IF finals ended game 5 or if lebron doesn't step it up and loses in game 6.

[SamuraiSWISH]

If the 2013 finals ended with game 5, there is absolutely no chance in hell anyone take Lebron over Kobe. The gap between them in playoff performance is just HUGE. Lebron just gets his stats.. he disappears very often in games.
Kobe is miles better than him IF finals ended game 5 or if lebron doesn't step it up and loses in game 6.
Right, I mean LeBron can finally grow a set, put his big boy pants on and come out and have iconic INSTANT CLASSIC caliber games akin to his Boston game 6 game in the next couple games v.s. San Antonio to avenge these demons.

If he did this, naturally our opinion, or perception of him as a player would evolve. But given this kid's character, and heart or lack there of... seemingly another non existent, passive NBA Finals on his resume for the majority of this series. It doesn't seem probable of happening.

That game v.s. Detroit, Indiana, and Boston. Those with history giving us a pattern of who this dude is ... those are more anomalies then they are the true representative of how LeBron plays in the playoffs, or clutch / meaningful situations.

[DFish24]

Kobe pretty easily.

[HurricaneKid]

The Kobestans are out in full effect today. Lets wait for these Finals to end.

If LeBron can go G6 from last year and win a title it would cement a remarkable legacy. His performances in series deciding games is fairly impressive.

[2010splash]

LeBron in a landslide. LeBron will have 2 MVPs and 2 Finals MVPs from 11-13. Kobe had 1 MVP and 2 Finals MVP's from 08-10. Kobe's defense was worse and he never had the dominant regular seasons LeBron had. Easy choice.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe's defense was worse
Ummm, no. LeBron's defense is massively overrated. Kobe slacks on help defense, LeBron is usually atrocious on ball as a defender. I'd say their shortcomings cancel each other out.

[2010splash]

Ummm, no. LeBron's defense is massively overrated. Kobe slacks on help defense, LeBron is usually atrocious on ball as a defender. I'd say their shortcomings cancel each other out.
Single-handedly took out Paul George, Derrick Rose, Paul Pierce, etc. If anything, his defense is underrated.

[Electric Slide]

Single-handedly took out Paul George, Derrick Rose, Paul Pierce, etc. If anything, his defense is underrated.
his defense was pretty bad on Paul George sans game 7

[DMAVS41]

Kobe always lead those teams. Through good play or bad, he never disappeared on those teams during stretches of close games like Bron has done. That's the difference, Bron isn't leading in these finals and it is trickling down.

Kobe certainly never had a series like the 11 finals, but he also never dominated the playoffs the way Lebron did last year. And he never dominated the regular season like Lebron has as well. And he wasn't nearly as versatile on both ends...etc.

I also think it's unfair to give him a pass for his performance in the 08 finals as a leader. He was the leader of the team that gave up one of the biggest leads in finals history at home in the crucial game 4. And then his team got wiped by 40 in the deciding game. If what you are saying about trickling down is true...then not sure how Kobe gets a pass for 08.

It's a toss up if the Spurs win, but I lean towards Kobe. I don't see the issue with that. We can't just throw out all the things that Lebron has done that Kobe didn't...

[SamuraiSWISH]

If what you are saying about trickling down is true...then not sure how Kobe gets a pass for 08.
Compared to LeBron's 2011 and 2013? Wade showed up in shades and was the best player for them during those Finals. Pau Gasol was virtually non existent in the 2008 Finals. Scared shitless by Kevin Garnett and co. Also the 2008 Boston Celtics are easily better than the 2011 Mavs or 2013 Spurs. And their defense was light years better than both.

[TheBigVeto]

Lebron wins this one.

[Leftimage]

Kobe pretty easily.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/5f1d9376540555a7dd412ff2ec1a4df6/tumblr_mojxk1liYo1qdlh1io1_400.gif

[Ne 1]

Kobe's '08 series vs Boston is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I never held this series against him. First of all, where was his help? There was no Laker who played well enough to prevent a legendary Celtic defense from swarming him. Gasol reverted to Gasoft on both ends of the floor, he was badly outplayed by KG. making Kobe's poor shooting series perfectly understandable. Look at what LeBron did vs that Celtic defense, he shot under 36% and averaged over 5 turnovers. The Celtics loaded up on Kobe because he wasn't getting enough help. So yes, he shot the ball poorly, but with one of the greatest defensive teams of all time focusing almost entirely on one player, it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy. Boston also had a much more talented team with the Lakers missing Bynum and Ariza.

[Droid101]

I'll take the unselfish player that can coexist with other superstars on his team
So, Kobe.

Not the guy who is +21 points per 48 when on the floor without Wade, and +2.1 points per 48 when on the floor with Wade.

Right?

[The Iron Fist]

Nah...it's just not overlooking the numerous shortcomings of Kobe over that stretch as well. Like in 10 against the Thunder where if he had the help Lebron had early on in the playoffs this year his team would have lost in 5.

Or when he blew a 24 point lead at home and did nothing to stop it. Or when his team lost a do or die game 6 by 40. Or when he shot 6/24 in the biggest game of his career and got bailed out by his teammates.

I said it was a toss up, but I'd lean towards Kobe. That is just how I feel, but I think it would be a little absurd to sit here and claim Kobe was significantly better than Lebron during that stretch. Just don't see it.
You don't see it because you're one of the biggest Kobe bashers this site has ever known.

Do tell though, what exactly did lebron do to stop the 36 point drubbing a few days ago? Better yet, how about you post their season averages and finals averages in the years they made the finals from the years the topic is about. Who had the bigger dropoff in production when they reached the grand stage?

I guarantee it wasn't Kobe.

[Droid101]

Who had the bigger dropoff in production when they reached the grand stage?

I guarantee it wasn't Kobe.
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1367268/boom-headshot-o.gif

[The-Legend-24]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1367268/boom-headshot-o.gif
:oldlol: :oldlol: