Dr. J: Picks Kobe over Lebron. Kobe 1 of the top 5 players of all-time

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dan Gelston ✔ @APgelston

Dr J says if he had to pick between LeBron and Kobe he picks ... Bryant. Says Kobe 1 of top 5 players of all time.
6:56 PM - 5 Jun 2013

https://twitter.com/APgelston/statuses/342459966164180993

Why no thread about this?

[Dbrog]

He's entitled to his opinion. There is just no argument for it sooo :confusedshrug:

[imnew09]

But lets ignore one of the greatest player opinion and listen to the ISH trolls!

[christian1923]

Real recognize real.

[russwest0]

Why is this a thread? Everyone knows that Kobe > LeBron.

Only clowns would say otherwise. Nothing newsworthy imo

[2010splash]

Dr. J is a joker. Kobe is nowhere near top 5 all-time and is clearly a worse player than LeBron at basically every facet of the game. The only area where he even approaches LeBron is scoring. LeBron is a top-2 player of all-time individually/statistically. If we're talking about titles/career longevity and all that, then yeah he has a ways to go. Kobe is anywhere from the 9th to 11th best player ever.

[clutchinho]

Why is this a thread? Everyone knows that Kobe > LeBron.

Only clowns would say otherwise. Nothing newsworthy imo

Exactly , Anyone who has eyes and a basic grasp of 5 > 1 would know this

Lebron has a lot more to prove to even be compared all time to Kobe.

[kennethgriffin]

Dr. J is a joker. Kobe is nowhere near top 5 all-time and is clearly a worse player than LeBron at basically every facet of the game. The only area where he even approaches LeBron is scoring. LeBron is a top-2 player of all-time individually/statistically. If we're talking about titles/career longevity and all that, then yeah he has a ways to go. Kobe is anywhere from the 9th to 11th best player ever.


says you

but dr j says he is

jordan says hes the "only guy who compares to him in nba history"

jerry west says he is

phil jackson says he and jordan and once in a lifetime players

george karl says jesus cant even guard kobe and hes top 3 all time

pat riley said kobes right there with jordan all time

barkley says kobe is top 5 all time

bird says kobe would be the first guy after jordan and magic that he'd take on his team

magic says hes the best laker ever ( and the top 5 all time is mostly made up with them )

every great player and coach. past or present says kobe is up there in that catigory

only a few message board posters disagree


so it doesnt matter what you think.




you lose

:lol

[branslowski]

says you

but dr j says he is

jordan says hes the "only guy who compares to him in nba history"

jerry west says he is

phil jackson says he and jordan and once in a lifetime players

george karl says jesus cant even guard kobe and hes top 3 all time

pat riley said kobes right there with jordan all time

barkley says kobe is top 5 all time

bird says kobe would be the first guy after jordan and magic that he'd take on his team

magic says hes the best laker ever ( and the top 5 all time is mostly made up with them )

every great player and coach. past or present says kobe is up there in that catigory

only a few message board posters disagree


so it doesnt matter what you think.




you lose

:lol

Thread/bookmarked/ :applause:

But bu, Dennis Rodman's opinion means more:rolleyes:

[BlackVVaves]

Dr. J is a joker. Kobe is nowhere near top 5 all-time and is clearly a worse player than LeBron at basically every facet of the game. The only area where he even approaches LeBron is scoring. LeBron is a top-2 player of all-time individually/statistically. If we're talking about titles/career longevity and all that, then yeah he has a ways to go. Kobe is anywhere from the 9th to 11th best player ever.

Lebron statistically and individually is not 2nd all time, despite what your whims as a Heat fan implore you to believe. MJ and Kareem are 1 & 2 respectfully.

Kobe is anywhere from 7-10 best player ever, with most intelligent basketball observers over the years typically placing him at 8th or 9th. Where you get the notion that Kobe's career is not one of the best 10 in NBA history is astounding.

But again, whims of a Miami He.....let me rephrase that, Lebron James stan.

[Da Hammer]

Pretty obvious Kobe is better...

[clutchinho]

Watching Kobe play bball is like watching a great artist applying his craft, brilliant creativity backed up by rock solid fundamentals

Watching lebron play ball is like watching a wrecker trying to demolish a building with a sledgehammer, use brute strength and hope for the best.

[2010splash]

says you

but dr j says he is

jordan says hes the "only guy who compares to him in nba history"

jerry west says he is

phil jackson says he and jordan and once in a lifetime players

george karl says jesus cant even guard kobe and hes top 3 all time

pat riley said kobes right there with jordan all time

barkley says kobe is top 5 all time

bird says kobe would be the first guy after jordan and magic that he'd take on his team

magic says hes the best laker ever ( and the top 5 all time is mostly made up with them )

every great player and coach. past or present says kobe is up there in that catigory

only a few message board posters disagree


so it doesnt matter what you think.




you lose

:lol
That's not evidence of him being better. Compare their abilities at different facets of the game (LeBron wins easily), compare their stats (LeBron wins easily), compare their defense (LeBron wins easily), compare their ability to win with marginal talent (LeBron wins easily), etc.

The only thing Kobe has going for him is "Dr. J and Magic said so" and "5 rings with prime Shaq and Gasol/Odom > 1 ring with Wade/Bosh and 7 other seasons with Mo/Ilgauskas/Varejao".

[sundizz]

That's not evidence of him being better. Compare their abilities at different facets of the game (LeBron wins easily), compare their stats (LeBron wins easily), compare their defense (LeBron wins easily), compare their ability to win with marginal talent (LeBron wins easily), etc.

The only thing Kobe has going for him is "Dr. J and Magic said so" and "5 rings with prime Shaq and Gasol/Odom > 1 ring with Wade/Bosh and 7 other seasons with Mo/Ilgauskas/Varejao".

Lebron is better if you are playing pick up basketball where there are no sets, no organized consensus of how to play. Kobe sucks at freelancing.

However, if you want to play organized basketball Kobe is the guy that will get you the chips.


Kobe in the NBA > Lebron in the NBA.

It's crazy that Lebron's random just do wtv style works so well. He literally does not have a go to move. He might be the first player in NBA history to be so good that he doesn't actually need a go to move.

[2010splash]

Lebron statistically and individually is not 2nd all time, despite what your whims as a Heat fan implore you to believe. MJ and Kareem are 1 & 2 respectfully.

Kobe is anywhere from 7-10 best player ever, with most intelligent basketball observers over the years typically placing him at 8th or 9th. Where you get the notion that Kobe's career is not one of the best 10 in NBA history is astounding.

But again, whims of a Miami He.....let me rephrase that, Lebron James stan.
Jordan is #1 without question. No disagreement there. Kareem is not #2. You can keep saying it over and over again, but that doesn't make it true. You are one of those people who overrates past players because they played in the past. Show us how on earth Kareem is better individually/statistically than LeBron.

I said Kobe can be considered 9th or 10th best ever, but it's not that far-fetched to have him outside the top 10 after this year.

Jordan
LeBron
Wilt
Shaq
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan

Bird
Hakeem
Kobe

The first 8 I listed are entrenched in the top 8. They aren't going anywhere any time soon. So it comes down to one of Bird/Hakeem/Kobe being removed from the top 10. Most people don't think Bird is outside the top 10, so it's between Hakeem and Kobe.

[clutchinho]

Jordan
LeBron
.
:wtf: :biggums:

U r batshit insane

Let's disregard everyone that went before, lebron "1 ring with a stacked team" James is the runner up goat

[Heavincent]

Dr J probably appreciates Kobe more because of his aesthetically pleasing style. Kobe, Jordan, and Dr. J are 3 of the most exciting players ever.

[kennethgriffin]

That's not evidence of him being better. Compare their abilities at different facets of the game (LeBron wins easily), compare their stats (LeBron wins easily), compare their defense (LeBron wins easily), compare their ability to win with marginal talent (LeBron wins easily), etc.

The only thing Kobe has going for him is "Dr. J and Magic said so" and "5 rings with prime Shaq and Gasol/Odom > 1 ring with Wade/Bosh and 7 other seasons with Mo/Ilgauskas/Varejao".

absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

its an unknown unknown

all that is available is majority opinion. there is no clear cut measuring stick.


kobe is top 5 based on the same merit that lists jordan as goat


and that definition is "respect"



he has the respect of a top 5 player all time among

a) majority current/former coaches

b) majority current/former players

c) majority fans



and thats all that matters


you and a few other less than 1 percenters on a meaningless pointless collection of time wasters such as a message board called inside hoops saying otherwise does not equate to a substantial overturn of the level of respect garnered by kobe bean bryant


you lose

[kennethgriffin]

1a-Kareem
1b-jordan
3-russell
4-kobe
5-magic
6-wilt
7-bird
8-shaq
9-duncan
10-hakeem


fixed

[2010splash]

absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

its an unknown unknown

all that is available is majority opinion. there is no clear cut measuring stick.


kobe is top 5 based on the same merit that lists jordan as goat


and that definition is "respect"



he has the respect of a top 5 player all time among

a) majority current/former coaches

b) majority current/former players

c) majority fans



and thats all that matters


you and a few other less than 1 percenters on a meaningless pointless collection of time wasters such as a message board called inside hoops saying otherwise does not equate to a substantial overturn of the level of respect garnered by kobe bean bryant


you lose
You can't think for yourself so you rank a player based on what former players have to say about him? That's silly. Jordan is living proof that being elite at the game you played is not in any way an indication of how well you can evaluate talent/judge players. So no, it's not all that matters.

Kobe is nowhere near top 5 all time. I don't know where you came up with that craziness. You are aware that since Jordan retired, he is only the 4th best player in terms of impact/production, right?

1. LeBron
2. Shaq
3. Duncan

All three of those guys were better than Kobe. And they're only from the post-Jordan era. Now imagine going back to the 80's, 90's, 60's and 70's to find players better than Kobe. Jordan is a lock.

So there's 4 players who have been unquestionably better players than Kobe. Most people won't struggle to find at least one more name.

[kennethgriffin]

You can't think for yourself so you rank a player based on what former players have to say about him? That's silly. Jordan is living proof that being elite at the game you played is not in any way an indication of how well you can evaluate talent/judge players. So no, it's not all that matters.

Kobe is nowhere near top 5 all time. I don't know where you came up with that craziness. You are aware that since Jordan retired, he is only the 4th best player in terms of impact/production, right?

1. LeBron
2. Shaq
3. Duncan

All three of those guys were better than Kobe. And they're only from the post-Jordan era. Now imagine going back to the 80's, 90's, 60's and 70's to find players better than Kobe. Jordan is a lock.

So there's 4 players who have been unquestionably better players than Kobe. Most people won't struggle to find at least one more name.



are you saying that my opinion is worth more than the majority of legends in and around the nba?


thanks bro!

but you're wrong lol



sorry but niether one of us matter in the grand scape of things. its impossible for our opinion to hold any weight when we have nothing to do with the game of basketball.


we're just fans. and even if we had a job at espn. we'd still only be guys in suits with biased opinions


the reason why great players and great coaches hold more value to their opinion is because they themselves are connected to many other great people and are great themselves. they have no need to gobble up an idols ********

they themselves are idols.

and most of them didnt grow up with a kobe or lebron poster on their walls.



in the end. we live in a democratic society in which majority opinion rules


among players/coaches/fans

kobe is a top 5 player all time



only a few minor small percentage of irrelevant minority based fans disagree


and the minority never wins an election. they lose 10 times out of 10


you lose again!


:applause:

[STATUTORY]

There's a reason Julius Erving is referred to as Dr. J, he's one of the smartest basketball player in the history of the game. not surprised by his comment at all, clearly knowledgeable.

[Stern]

LeBron and Kobe have to be two of the most overrated athlethes of all time. But I agree with Dr. J that Kobe is better than LeBron.

[Clutch]

Why is this a thread? Everyone knows that Kobe > LeBron.

Only clowns would say otherwise. Nothing newsworthy imo
:applause:

[Rooster]

I think Lebron has a better trajectory than Kobe especially if the Heat outlast the Spurs.

[imnew09]

says you

but dr j says he is

jordan says hes the "only guy who compares to him in nba history"

jerry west says he is

phil jackson says he and jordan and once in a lifetime players

george karl says jesus cant even guard kobe and hes top 3 all time

pat riley said kobes right there with jordan all time

barkley says kobe is top 5 all time

bird says kobe would be the first guy after jordan and magic that he'd take on his team

magic says hes the best laker ever ( and the top 5 all time is mostly made up with them )

every great player and coach. past or present says kobe is up there in that catigory

only a few message board posters disagree


so it doesnt matter what you think.




you lose

:lol


But but ISH kobe haters say Kobe is not even in the top 10 :lol :lol

[KG215]

Jordan is #1 without question. No disagreement there. Kareem is not #2. You can keep saying it over and over again, but that doesn't make it true. You are one of those people who overrates past players because they played in the past. Show us how on earth Kareem is better individually/statistically than LeBron.

And in this scenario (because not everyone has Kareem #2) why isn't Kareem ahead of LeBron? There's not any objective measure that says LeBron should be ranked ahead of Kareem all-time at this point. Kareem's peak was just as high (if not higher) than LeBron's, their primes are equally dominant, but Kareem has more MVPs, more championships, more FMVP's, and the best or second best longevity in NBA history along with Kobe. There's absolutely ZERO argument for LeBron being ranked ahead of Kareem right now.

You've proven recently that you're a moron. You've repeatedly called the 2013 Heat a top 3 team all-time and LeBron James the 2nd best player of all-time. So why should anyone respect your opinion and take it seriously?

[KG215]

fixed
:oldlol:

So, ever since last summer, you've jumped Kobe from either #6 or #7 all-time to #4 all-time, despite virtually nothing on his career resume changing?

:facepalm

[Dbrog]

Jordan is #1 without question. No disagreement there. Kareem is not #2. You can keep saying it over and over again, but that doesn't make it true. You are one of those people who overrates past players because they played in the past. Show us how on earth Kareem is better individually/statistically than LeBron.

I said Kobe can be considered 9th or 10th best ever, but it's not that far-fetched to have him outside the top 10 after this year.

Jordan
LeBron
Wilt
Shaq
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan

Bird
Hakeem
Kobe

The first 8 I listed are entrenched in the top 8. They aren't going anywhere any time soon. So it comes down to one of Bird/Hakeem/Kobe being removed from the top 10. Most people don't think Bird is outside the top 10, so it's between Hakeem and Kobe.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

So much gold here! :applause: :lol

[Leviathon1121]

Laker fans already laughed off Artest calling Jordan harder to guard then Kobe, but I guess since it is pro-Kobe this opinion counts right?

[K Xerxes]

People should stop responding to 2010splash and hopefully he takes his trolling elsewhere.

That or the Spurs beatdown the Heat and LeBron is 1/4 in finals.

[Doctor Rivers]

Not that I agree with Kobe > LeBron, but if what Dr. J said was the other way around all the LeBron trolls would be saying "can't deny the opinion of one of the greatest players of all time!!!"

[NumberSix]

People should stop responding to 2010splash and hopefully he takes his trolling elsewhere.

That or the Spurs beatdown the Heat and LeBron is 1/4 in finals.
I know anti-Heat fans are super happy about SAS winning game 1 but don't prematurely blow your load. SAS is outmatched in this series. They're not winning. They might win 1 more game.

[aau]

:oldlol:

So, ever since last summer, you've jumped Kobe from either #6 or #7 all-time to #4 all-time, despite virtually nothing on his career resume changing?

:facepalm

joining 30k club where only 5 others exist means nothing

virtual facegrab

[Shih508]

Dr J probably appreciates Kobe more because of his aesthetically pleasing style. Kobe, Jordan, and Dr. J are 3 of the most exciting players ever.

AI was more exciting than Kobe ever dream to be... lol

[AlphaWolf24]

Over 31,000pts with 5 NBA titles = top 5 - 6 alltime....

Dr. J just speaking in Reality viewpoints of the majority of the Basketball community.

not surprising at all......to most people.

[KG215]

joining 30k club where only 5 others exist means nothing

virtual facegrab
So he all of a sudden became a better player by doing that? I understand it's a nice accomplishment, but that alone shouldn't be enough to jump him up 2-3 spots in one year.

[get these NETS]

kobe is one of the great talents in the history of the league

work ethic and understanding of the game is old school



which makes him jacking shots and forcing up contested shots with open teammates on the regular inexcusable


early jordan did it because he played with granville waiters/waters and assorted scrubs........kobe has played with decent talent his entire career....but still goes into self-mode every once in a while

lebron is the guy I'd choose.



the legends who chose him(kobe) clearly know more about basketball than I ever will, but if they had to be teammates with a player with such selfish tendencies.....think they'd change minds

[DFish24]

The Doctor just speaking the truth. Lol Lebron stans are :mad:

[aau]

All-Time (RS/PS)

PTS 31,617 - #4
PSP 5640 --- #3
AST 5887 --- #32 (#5 non-PG)
PSA 1040 --- #7 (#3 non-PG)
STL 1828 --- #16 (#7 non-PG)
PSS 310 ---- #5

FTA 9468 --- #5 (MJ #10)
FTM 7932 --- #3 (MJ #5)
PSA 1617 --- #5 (MJ #2)
PSM 1320 --- #2 (MJ #1)

3PA 4879 --- #6
3PM 1637 --- #12
P3A 882 ----- #1
P3M 292 ----- #3

FGA 24,301 - #4 (MJ #3)
FGM 11,024 - #7 (MJ #4)
PSA 4499 ---- #1 (MJ #2)
PSM 2014 ---- #4 (MJ #2)

MP 45,390 --- #14 (MJ #25)
PS 8641 ------ #2 (MJ #10)
GP 1239 ------ #25 (MJ #79)
PS 220 -------- #4 (MJ #16)

out of 22 categories - he's top 5 in 16
(non-PG incl)

.

BIG MAN cat's - PS only

TREB 1119 (#41)
OREB 230 (top 60)

BLK 144 (#37)

.

181 career double-double >>> 20th all time between guards
18 career triple-double >>> 8th all time between guards

53 games with 30/7/7 PTS/REB/AST >>> 4th all time
181 games with 30/5/5 PTS/REB/AST >>> 3rd all time
69 games with 27/7/7 PTS/REB/AST >>> 5th all time
242 games with 27/5/5 PTS/REB/AST >>> 3rd all time
80 games with 25/7/7 PTS/REB/AST >>> 6th all time
284 games with 25/5/5 PTS/REB/AST >>> 3rd all time
101 games with 20/7/7 PTS/REB/AST >>> 9th all time
377 games with 20/5/5 PTS/REB/AST >>> 4th all time

107 games with 30pts and 7ast >>> 4th all time
244 games with 30pts and 5ast >>> 4th all time
180 games with 25pts and 7ast >>> 4th all time
392 games with 25pts and 5ast >>> 4th all time
247 games with 20pts and 7ast >>> 13th all time
540 games with 20pts and 5ast >>> 3rd all time

201 games with 30pts and 7reb >>> 8th all time (tie), 2nd between guards
306 games with 30pts and 5reb >>> 4th all time, 2nd between guards
295 games with 25pts and 7reb >>> 12th all time, 2nd between guards
526 games with 25pts and 5reb >>> 4th all time, 2nd between guards
359 games with 20pts and 7reb >>> 16th all time, 3rd between guards
675 games with 20pts and 5reb >>> 9th all time, 2nd between guards

5.28 rebounds per game >>> 10th between guards (min 800 games)
4.67 assists per game >>> 55th all time (min 800 games)

1 of only 22 players to average +5 rebounds and +4 assists

1 season with 30/6/5 PTS/REB/AST >>> 6th all time, 1 of only 8 players to ever do this
3 seasons with 30/5/4 PTS/REB/AST >>> 3rd all time (tie), 1 of only 14 players to ever do this
7 seasons with 27/5/4 PTS/REB/AST >>> 3rd all time (tie)
11 seasons with 25/5/4 PTS/REB/AST >>> 1st all time

14 seasons with +5 rebounds >>> 2nd all time between guards
7 seasons with +5 assists >>> 43rd all time between guards (tie)
13 seasons with +4 assists >>> 6th all time between guards (tie)
7 seasons with +5 assists and rebounds >>> 7th all time between guards
13 seasons with +5 rebounds and +4 assists >>> 2nd all time between guards

1 of only 5 players to average 25/5/4 for his career in the regular season
1 of only 6 players to average 25/5/4 for his career in the playoffs
1 of only 4 players to average 25/5/4 for his career in both the playoffs and the regular season
1 of only 4 players to record 30k points, 6k rebounds, 5k assists and 2k steals + blocks

[AlphaWolf24]

So he all of a sudden became a better player by doing that? I understand it's a nice accomplishment, but that alone shouldn't be enough to jump him up 2-3 spots in one year.


No....he all of a sudden ranks higher....

- No NBA Player gets better after thier Mid 20's.....its about using your skillset to get imaginary acomplishments.

- MJ was 27 - 28 years old when he won his first Title.......was 28 year old MJ better then 25 year old MJ? ( In 1988 his over all best season)


nope...he just achieved more adding to his rank


:facepalm
- jeesus you haters are basketball illiterates....

[Bandito]

Why are Centers and PF's compared to Guards and/or SF's anyways. They played so different, that is why I think GOAT list are stupid.

[K Xerxes]

I know anti-Heat fans are super happy about SAS winning game 1 but don't prematurely blow your load. SAS is outmatched in this series. They're not winning. They might win 1 more game.

I never said Spurs would win. In fact, I predicted Miami would win in 6 before the start of the series, and I'll stick with that.

But if Spurs beatdown the Heat, 2010splash should either leave or switch account and take on a new trolling direction.

[Nebraskanball]

That's not evidence of him being better. Compare their abilities at different facets of the game (LeBron wins easily), compare their stats (LeBron wins easily), compare their defense (LeBron wins easily), compare their ability to win with marginal talent (LeBron wins easily), etc.

The only thing Kobe has going for him is "Dr. J and Magic said so" and "5 rings with prime Shaq and Gasol/Odom > 1 ring with Wade/Bosh and 7 other seasons with Mo/Ilgauskas/Varejao".
Wade and Bosh are INFINITELY better than Odom and Gasol.

[2010splash]

And in this scenario (because not everyone has Kareem #2) why isn't Kareem ahead of LeBron? There's not any objective measure that says LeBron should be ranked ahead of Kareem all-time at this point. Kareem's peak was just as high (if not higher) than LeBron's, their primes are equally dominant, but Kareem has more MVPs, more championships, more FMVP's, and the best or second best longevity in NBA history along with Kobe. There's absolutely ZERO argument for LeBron being ranked ahead of Kareem right now.

You've proven recently that you're a moron. You've repeatedly called the 2013 Heat a top 3 team all-time and LeBron James the 2nd best player of all-time. So why should anyone respect your opinion and take it seriously?
You are slow. First off, those top 8 of mine were not in order. I just said those guys are clearly among the 8 greatest ever. And re: Kareem, if you're talking about career achievements/all-star appearances/awards and other stuff, then yeah his resume can match anyone's. I'm talking about individual brilliance and one's impact on the game. Saying Kareem's prime was as good as LeBron's is pure comedy. Worse stats and not an elite defender by any means.

Prime Kareem was so great that he led his team to 38 wins and missed the playoffs. When has peak LeBron ever come close to missing the playoffs? Then he missed the playoffs again the following year. How can peak LeBron compare to a guy who missed the playoffs back to back years?!?

LeBron is the second greatest player ever when it comes to all-around impact, versatility, and sheer dominance. The only reason you rank other guys ahead of him are because of team-related accomplishments.

[STATUTORY]

DOCTOR J with the discerning diagnosis :applause:

[KG215]

I'm talking about individual brilliance and one's impact on the game. Saying Kareem's prime was as good as LeBron's is pure comedy. Worse stats and not an elite defender by any means.
I'm not even sure if you're being serious anymore because that is easily one of the single dumbest sentences I've ever read on here.


LeBron is the second greatest player ever when it comes to all-around impact, versatility, and sheer dominance. The only reason you rank other guys ahead of him are because of team-related accomplishments.
The fact that you believe this is indisputably true just tells me you're either a child or a very biased, ignorant, close-minded basketball fan. There's no other alternative.

[TheMarkMadsen]

you're either a child or a very biased, ignorant, close-minded Lebron fan. There's no other alternative.

Fixed

[BlackVVaves]

And in this scenario (because not everyone has Kareem #2) why isn't Kareem ahead of LeBron? There's not any objective measure that says LeBron should be ranked ahead of Kareem all-time at this point. Kareem's peak was just as high (if not higher) than LeBron's, their primes are equally dominant, but Kareem has more MVPs, more championships, more FMVP's, and the best or second best longevity in NBA history along with Kobe. There's absolutely ZERO argument for LeBron being ranked ahead of Kareem right now.

You've proven recently that you're a moron. You've repeatedly called the 2013 Heat a top 3 team all-time and LeBron James the 2nd best player of all-time. So why should anyone respect your opinion and take it seriously?

There's really nothing left to be said Lebron-Stan, KG215 as usual nailed it on the head.

The fact that you think Lebron thus far is unquestionably valued greater than Kareem indicates your bias, and lack of basketball insight.

The 2013 Miami Heat are a Top 3 All Time team? You need help :oldlol:

[TOUCH MY BODY]

I'm not even sure if you're being serious anymore because that is easily one of the single dumbest sentences I've ever read on here.


The fact that you believe this is indisputably true just tells me you're either a child or a very biased, ignorant, close-minded basketball fan. There's no other alternative.

:applause:

[Ne 1]

Show us how on earth Kareem is better individually/statistically than LeBron.



:oldlol: Kareem's overall statistics in his prime, individual dominance, aren't matched by LeBron.


LeBron, while a great defender, doesn't have the interior presence of a big man. LeBron doesn't have the scoring efficiency of Kareem and at their peaks, Kareem was hands down better.


Even the '85 Finals where people ruled Kareem out as being "too old" and then he drops 30/17/8 vs. the Celtics at the age of 37. Follows that up with 26/14/7 on just 13 shots! 37 year old Kareem did this in like 30 minutes of playing time a game.

[dh144498]

Jordan is #1 without question. No disagreement there. Kareem is not #2. You can keep saying it over and over again, but that doesn't make it true. You are one of those people who overrates past players because they played in the past. Show us how on earth Kareem is better individually/statistically than LeBron.

I said Kobe can be considered 9th or 10th best ever, but it's not that far-fetched to have him outside the top 10 after this year.

Jordan
LeBron
Wilt
Shaq
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan

Bird
Hakeem
Kobe

The first 8 I listed are entrenched in the top 8. They aren't going anywhere any time soon. So it comes down to one of Bird/Hakeem/Kobe being removed from the top 10. Most people don't think Bird is outside the top 10, so it's between Hakeem and Kobe.

:lol :roll: :oldlol:

2010Splash going full retard again.

:roll: :lol

[kNicKz]

Lebron better than Wilt and Russell?

2010splash holy **** :roll:

[FPJ]

Dr. J picks Kobe over Lebron.

Shaq picked Wade over Kobe.

Shaq >>> Dr J

.................................................. ...............................

Wade>>>Kobe>>>>>Lebron

Is this how ISH logic works?

MJ = GOAT player / WOAT owner/GM

[IncarceratedBob]

Kobe never lost to the spurs in the finals

[dh144498]

Dr. J picks Kobe over Lebron.

Shaq picked Wade over Kobe.

Shaq >>> Dr J

.................................................. ...............................

Wade>>>Kobe>>>>>Lebron

Is this how ISH logic works?

MJ = GOAT player / WOAT owner/GM

except Shaq isn't as credible as Dr J. So you lack logic.

[daily]

Kobe never lost to the spurs in the finals:facepalm I hope you're still incarcerated.... Bob

[Flash31]

Dan Gelston ✔ @APgelston

6:56 PM - 5 Jun 2013

https://twitter.com/APgelston/statuses/342459966164180993

Why no thread about this?

if he had to pick Kobe or LeBron
considering Kobe has done more than LeBron yeah okay

But one of top 5,nope

It seems like getting beat by Bird,Magic and the Pistons and age has severely clouded and changed his mind.

Wilt,Russell,Kareem,MJ,Magic,Bird

Now he could see Kobe better than Bird or Magic okay,which would put him in top 5 goat,but there is no way in hell Kobe even compares to
Kareem,MJ,Russell,wILT
SO YEAH HE COULD SAY THAT.

bUT AGAIN Everybodies top 5 differs from time to time,depending on when,and what year and who you're talking about.

Russell said his top 5 was not including himself
Wilt,Bird,Magic,Kareem,MJ
And then it changes depending on when and who youre talking about.
Same with Magics and Shaqs and Paytons,Jordans
everybody is subjective in one way or another.

Jordan once said kobe is top ten in sg,then top 5,then one of the only people that can compare to him yet he never said he was one of the greats so,but then hell say kobe is one of goat,then 2nd best sg,but not top 5,their opinions change from day to day.

Kobe could be top 5 in some lists while in others nowhere near,and either one is subjective and could be seen as legit,

The Undisputed 4 that are usually in top 5 goat are Russell,MJ,Kareem,and Wilt
and then theres Magic and Bird who are in there as well.

[FPJ]

everybody is subjective in one way or another.

Reason doesnt work on this site.

[Flash31]

except Shaq isn't as credible as Dr J. So you lack logic.

yeah the guy who has 3 finals MVPS,4 rings
has 28,000 pts and was the most dominant player in the late 90s,early 2000s
and has avg 20,10 for 20 years
and has been right about Dwight Howard,Brook Lopez,made some very valid points for and against Kobe and LeBron
and Phil Jackson even sides with Shaq on Kobe and his opinion and all.

But yeah because DR J said Kobe is better and top 5,and SHAQ did not
Dr j IS more credible and legit,yeah sure riight.

So I guess then Bill Russell,Jordan,Hakeem,Payton,Bird,Magic,Pippen,Dun can,Stockton,Malone are not legit either.Phil Jackson and Pat Riley and Gregg Popovich must not be credible either.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dr. J picks Kobe over Lebron.

Shaq picked Wade over Kobe.

Shaq >>> Dr J

.................................................. ...............................

Wade>>>Kobe>>>>>Lebron

Is this how ISH logic works?

MJ = GOAT player / WOAT owner/GM
When has Shaq said Wade>Kobe?

[ripthekik]

What's new?
Every single top ten GOAT legend doesn't respect lebron. They all prefer Kobe.

And we're supposed to listen to the lebron stans here on ISH? :oldlol:

There must be a reason why lebron is so disrespected by his peers, and even the legends. Think about it.

[dh144498]

yeah the guy who has 3 finals MVPS,4 rings
has 28,000 pts and was the most dominant player in the late 90s,early 2000s
and has avg 20,10 for 20 years
and has been right about Dwight Howard,Brook Lopez,made some very valid points for and against Kobe and LeBron
and Phil Jackson even sides with Shaq on Kobe and his opinion and all.

But yeah because DR J said Kobe is better and top 5,and SHAQ did not
Dr j IS more credible and legit,yeah sure riight.

So I guess then Bill Russell,Jordan,Hakeem,Payton,Bird,Magic,Pippen,Dun can,Stockton,Malone are not legit either.Phil Jackson and Pat Riley and Gregg Popovich must not be credible either.

Shaq also said Kobe is the greatest Laker, so that means Kobe is in the top 5. So great job proving that.

[Flash31]

Shaq also said Kobe is the greatest Laker, so that means Kobe is in the top 5. So great job proving that.


eh not really considering
Wilt,Russell,Bird,MJ,Kareem
wernt full time Lakers and dint win their rings as solely Lakers

Russell and Bird were all Celtics
and MJ was basically all bulls

while Karem and Wilt won rings and had other all time great success with other teams
the Bucks,Warriors,76ers

so no that doesnt mean Kobe is top 5 but nice try
and considering Russell said Magic was better,and OTHER STARS DID AS WELL

and considering some have the Big O and Shaq and others in the top 5
doesnt prove anything

you can be the greatest player for a franchise,even over other greats but that doesnt mean youre better than them

That just means you had the better career for that franchise

And well Shaq also said Magic was better before as well so

its subjective depending on the person
what time,who youre talking about and when

but eh nice try

[dh144498]

eh not really considering
Wilt,Russell,Bird,MJ,Kareem
wernt full time Lakers and dint win their rings as solely Lakers

Russell and Bird were all Celtics
and MJ was basically all bulls

while Karem and Wilt won rings and had other all time great success with other teams
the Bucks,Warriors,76ers

so no that doesnt mean Kobe is top 5 but nice try
and considering Russell said Magic was better,and OTHER STARS DID AS WELL

and considering some have the Big O and Shaq and others in the top 5
doesnt prove anything

you can be the greatest player for a franchise,even over other greats but that doesnt mean youre better than them

That just means you had the better career for that franchise

And well Shaq also said Magic was better before as well so

its subjective depending on the person
what time,who youre talking about and when

but eh nice try

yes it does. Magic is like 6th at the very worst? Wouldn't that mean Kobe's top 5? Unless you are telling me you personally rank Magic no higher than 7th, then what I said holds true.

nice try youself. But you didn't debunk anything I said.

[The Iron Fist]

That's not evidence of him being better. Compare their abilities at different facets of the game (LeBron wins easily), compare their stats (LeBron wins easily), compare their defense (LeBron wins easily), compare their ability to win with marginal talent (LeBron wins easily), etc.

The only thing Kobe has going for him is "Dr. J and Magic said so" and "5 rings with prime Shaq and Gasol/Odom > 1 ring with Wade/Bosh and 7 other seasons with Mo/Ilgauskas/Varejao".
:biggums:

:facepalm

This guy really believes bron is better, despite bronz being the absolute worst star player in finals history.

[Scholar]

I'll take the opinions of all-time greats like Magic, Dr. J, Jerry West, etc., over those of dick riding posters on this site who probably started watching basketball the day of "The Decision."

[Flash31]

yes it does. Magic is like 6th at the very worst? Wouldn't that mean Kobe's top 5? Unless you are telling me you personally rank Magic no higher than 7th, then what I said holds true.

nice try youself. But you didn't debunk anything I said.

If Magic is 6th at worst than that means Bird is better
right
so

Russell,Kareem,MJ,Wilt,Bird

so that still leaves Kobe at 7th then
unless youre saying Kobes better than Magic in which case that makes him 6th
so again nope not top 5
see you didnt debunk anything I said either

[COnDEMnED]

Jordan is #1 without question. No disagreement there. Kareem is not #2. You can keep saying it over and over again, but that doesn't make it true. You are one of those people who overrates past players because they played in the past. Show us how on earth Kareem is better individually/statistically than LeBron.

I said Kobe can be considered 9th or 10th best ever, but it's not that far-fetched to have him outside the top 10 after this year.

Jordan
LeBron
Wilt
Shaq
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan

Bird
Hakeem
Kobe

The first 8 I listed are entrenched in the top 8. They aren't going anywhere any time soon. So it comes down to one of Bird/Hakeem/Kobe being removed from the top 10. Most people don't think Bird is outside the top 10, so it's between Hakeem and Kobe.
Troll alert.. top 10 list is dead give away. Bird anything higher than top 5-6 is criminal. Kareem is about 4 spaces off. Shaq too high, Russell too low, Duncan too low. I see Magic is out of the top 5 also, wtf is wrong with you. Lebron is probably in the top 12-15, Hakeem is number 10 and Kobe is 9 at worst. Don't make it so obvious next time you troll, keep Magic, Bird and Kareem in the top 5 at least. Don't be lazy with it.

[Flash31]

You are slow. First off, those top 8 of mine were not in order. I just said those guys are clearly among the 8 greatest ever. And re: Kareem, if you're talking about career achievements/all-star appearances/awards and other stuff, then yeah his resume can match anyone's. I'm talking about individual brilliance and one's impact on the game. Saying Kareem's prime was as good as LeBron's is pure comedy. Worse stats and not an elite defender by any means.

Prime Kareem was so great that he led his team to 38 wins and missed the playoffs. When has peak LeBron ever come close to missing the playoffs? Then he missed the playoffs again the following year. How can peak LeBron compare to a guy who missed the playoffs back to back years?!?

LeBron is the second greatest player ever when it comes to all-around impact, versatility, and sheer dominance. The only reason you rank other guys ahead of him are because of team-related accomplishments.


LeBron is the second greatest player ever when it comes to all-around impact, versatility, and sheer dominance. The only reason you rank other guys ahead of him are because of team-related accomplishments.[/QUOTE]



LeBron more dominant than Wilt,Russell,Shaq,and more
all around impact and versatility than Bird,

WOW,and wait hold up LeBron better than Kareem,Wilt,Russell,MJ

WTF?
HOW,Just how does somebody even think this

Kareem most points in league History
20 yr career avg 20,10
6 time MVP
6 Championships
Multiple time Finals MVPs

Wilt quickest to 30000 pts
avg 50,25
most rebounds in history
career avg of 30,22.5 on over 50%fg
shot 72.7% avg over 35 and 20
AVG a Tripled Double in a season with over 30,20,10
has 30000 pts+
known as one of greatest defenders of all time

Russell
11,11 Rings
in only 13 years
2nd most rebounds in history
greatest defensive center and goat defender

MJ speaks for itself,
and Birds resume trounces LeBrons at this moment
and so does Shaqs


How long and far down on your knees and how full is your mouth and
how delusional,ignorant,beyond mentaly messed up do you have to be to believe that.

[KingBeasley08]

eh Karl Malone and Magic ride Lebron's nuts

Malone and Magic >>>>> Dr. J

[NBASTATMAN]

Phil Jackson said that Lebron could be better than MJ.. I don't agree but he has never said that about KObe.. I think Kobe is a much better scorer than Lebron.. That isn't even close IMO... But the other facets of the game are close.. Lebron a much better team defender and much more efficient playing the game... Kobe is very inefficient whether its his shooting or all his turnovers..

[PickernRoller]

Anyone can be better than MJ. LOL Lebron will never be better than MJ period. His legacy is tainted. LOL at taking Phils comment and blowing the shit out of proportions.

Everyone takes Kobe over Lebron. EVERYONE.

[KingBeasley08]

Anyone can be better than MJ. LOL Lebron will never be better than MJ period. His legacy is tainted. LOL at taking Phils comment and blowing the shit out of proportions.

Everyone takes Kobe over Lebron. EVERYONE.
Not Jerry West :yaohappy:

[kobeef24]

Jordan is #1 without question. No disagreement there. Kareem is not #2. You can keep saying it over and over again, but that doesn't make it true. You are one of those people who overrates past players because they played in the past. Show us how on earth Kareem is better individually/statistically than LeBron.

I said Kobe can be considered 9th or 10th best ever, but it's not that far-fetched to have him outside the top 10 after this year.

Jordan
LeBron
Wilt
Shaq
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan

Bird
Hakeem
Kobe

The first 8 I listed are entrenched in the top 8. They aren't going anywhere any time soon. So it comes down to one of Bird/Hakeem/Kobe being removed from the top 10. Most people don't think Bird is outside the top 10, so it's between Hakeem and Kobe.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[DixieNourmous]

Jordan is #1 without question. No disagreement there. Kareem is not #2. You can keep saying it over and over again, but that doesn't make it true. You are one of those people who overrates past players because they played in the past. Show us how on earth Kareem is better individually/statistically than LeBron.

I said Kobe can be considered 9th or 10th best ever, but it's not that far-fetched to have him outside the top 10 after this year.

Jordan
LeBron
Wilt
Shaq
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan

Bird
Hakeem
Kobe

The first 8 I listed are entrenched in the top 8. They aren't going anywhere any time soon. So it comes down to one of Bird/Hakeem/Kobe being removed from the top 10. Most people don't think Bird is outside the top 10, so it's between Hakeem and Kobe.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maqxv4oqEx1rg7vmpo2_250.gif


Normally I dont respond to such stupidity.

LeBron is better today than Kobe due to Kobe`s age. Kobe`s career is miles ahead of leBron`s due to Kobe`s longevity and talent. At this point Kobe has had a better career, more accolades. To put LeBron at #3 just shows that you are 12 and just started watching basketball.

Rather than argue with you, I offer you a chance to school yourself.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

Before you spew from your cawkholster, educate yourself dumphuk.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/gtfo/grand/al_bundy_gtfo_gif.gif

[NBASTATMAN]

At this point Lebron is not a top ten player, Kobe is:rockon:

[Nash]

If Lebron wins the championship this season he has lead his teams to as many championships as Kobe as the man. And he also has 3 more MVP's. You guys can try to flip that and turn it as much as ya'll want but in the future that is what will count and what people will see. Also Lebron is playing and producing numbers at a level Kobe has never even been close to.

[ripthekik]

If Lebron wins the championship this season he has lead his teams to as many championships as Kobe as the man. And he also has 3 more MVP's. You guys can try to flip that and turn it as much as ya'll want but in the future that is what will count and what people will see. Also Lebron is playing and producing numbers at a level Kobe has never even been close to.

This post just needs this response:


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maqxv4oqEx1rg7vmpo2_250.gif


Normally I dont respond to such stupidity.

LeBron is better today than Kobe due to Kobe`s age. Kobe`s career is miles ahead of leBron`s due to Kobe`s longevity and talent. At this point Kobe has had a better career, more accolades. To put LeBron at #3 just shows that you are 12 and just started watching basketball.

Rather than argue with you, I offer you a chance to school yourself.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

Before you spew from your cawkholster, educate yourself dumphuk.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/gtfo/grand/al_bundy_gtfo_gif.gif

[KOBE143]

Magic, Barkley, Jordan, Bird, Shaq and now Dr. J have Kobe in the top 5..

Like I said before, Kobe is top 5 at worst.. Even legends agree with me.. :bowdown:

[sportjames23]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maqxv4oqEx1rg7vmpo2_250.gif


Normally I dont respond to such stupidity.

LeBron is better today than Kobe due to Kobe`s age. Kobe`s career is miles ahead of leBron`s due to Kobe`s longevity and talent. At this point Kobe has had a better career, more accolades. To put LeBron at #3 just shows that you are 12 and just started watching basketball.

Rather than argue with you, I offer you a chance to school yourself.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

Before you spew from your cawkholster, educate yourself dumphuk.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/gtfo/grand/al_bundy_gtfo_gif.gif


Dem gifs :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Vienceslav]

Lot of guys make an outlandish claim and then are forced to backtrack when they actually have to name the top 5 and end up having 10 players in their top 5.
You probably can make a case for up to 7 for Kobe, but you will have an easier time defending 8 or 9.
MJ
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird

I just can't even begin to make a case for Kobe to be over these 6.

[Ne 1]

If Lebron wins the championship this season he has lead his teams to as many championships as Kobe as the man..

"Rings as the man" is a faux category. It's not even a real category, yet for some reason people throw it out as if it's a statistical category. Really, does anyone outside of ISH and similar websites comprised of a tiny fraction of hardcore elitist fans care about this? This is a rhetorical question. No one does. Rings are rings. Walk into the local sports bar tonight and ask people how many rings any all-time great player has: Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem etc. 6, 6, 11, 5, 3, 5, 4 and 2. It's hilarious how elitist fans obsess over a fictional category that is based on subjective factors and is irrelevant.

People are hypocritical about this. No one penalizes Dr. J, Jerry West or Oscar for never winning a championship as the best player. Then there is Magic/Kareem. What about cases where one player was better but another performed better in the Finals, like Pierce over Garnett in 2008 or Parker over Duncan in 2007? Look at Bird vs. Magic as an example. Magic is usually ranked ahead of Bird largely because he has 5 rings and Bird has 3. However, Magic was the undisputed best player on his team for only 2 of his championships. Yet all 5 "count" when comparing him to Bird? Heck, Kobe was actually closer to Shaq in 2001 and 2002 than Magic was to Kareem in 1980, but only 2 of Kobe's rings "count" (2009 and 2010), yet all 5 of Magic's "count"?

"Rings as the man" is not always clear. Why should it even matter? If one player was 40% responsible, another 30% responsible, and the other 10 players 30% responsible does that 10% really matter? I look at whether a player was indispensable. If you replaced a player with an above average player at his position would his team still win? If so, I give him less credit.

[Jameerthefear]

"Rings as the man" is a faux category. It's not even a real category, yet for some reason people throw it out as if it's a statistical category. Really, does anyone outside of ISH and similar websites comprised of a tiny fraction of hardcore elitist fans care about this? This is a rhetorical question. No one does. Rings are rings. Walk into the local sports bar tonight and ask people how many rings any all-time great player has: Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem etc. 6, 6, 11, 5, 3, 5, 4 and 2. It's hilarious how elitist fans obsess over a fictional category that is based on subjective factors and is irrelevant.

People are hypocritical about this. No one penalizes Dr. J, Jerry West or Oscar for never winning a championship as the best player. Then there is Magic/Kareem. What about cases where one player was better but another performed better in the Finals, like Pierce over Garnett in 2008 or Parker over Duncan in 2007? Look at Bird vs. Magic as an example. Magic is usually ranked ahead of Bird largely because he has 5 rings and Bird has 3. However, Magic was the undisputed best player on his team for only 2 of his championships. Yet all 5 "count" when comparing him to Bird? Heck, Kobe was actually closer to Shaq in 2001 and 2002 than Magic was to Kareem in 1980, but only 2 of Kobe's rings "count" (2009 and 2010), yet all 5 of Magic's "count"?

"Rings as the man" is not always clear. Why should it even matter? If one player was 40% responsible, another 30% responsible, and the other 10 players 30% responsible does that 10% really matter? I look at whether a player was indispensable. If you replaced a player with an above average player at his position would his team still win? If so, I give him less credit.
Great post :applause:

[Heavincent]

If Lebron wins the championship this season he has lead his teams to as many championships as Kobe as the man. And he also has 3 more MVP's. You guys can try to flip that and turn it as much as ya'll want but in the future that is what will count and what people will see. Also Lebron is playing and producing numbers at a level Kobe has never even been close to.

So ignorant :facepalm

[PickernRoller]

So ignorant :facepalm

Selectively ignorant.

[TOUCH MY BODY]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maqxv4oqEx1rg7vmpo2_250.gif


Normally I dont respond to such stupidity.

LeBron is better today than Kobe due to Kobe`s age. Kobe`s career is miles ahead of leBron`s due to Kobe`s longevity and talent. At this point Kobe has had a better career, more accolades. To put LeBron at #3 just shows that you are 12 and just started watching basketball.

Rather than argue with you, I offer you a chance to school yourself.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

Before you spew from your cawkholster, educate yourself dumphuk.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/gtfo/grand/al_bundy_gtfo_gif.gif

:applause:

[LAZERUSS]

"Rings as the man" is a faux category. It's not even a real category, yet for some reason people throw it out as if it's a statistical category. Really, does anyone outside of ISH and similar websites comprised of a tiny fraction of hardcore elitist fans care about this? This is a rhetorical question. No one does. Rings are rings. Walk into the local sports bar tonight and ask people how many rings any all-time great player has: Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem etc. 6, 6, 11, 5, 3, 5, 4 and 2. It's hilarious how elitist fans obsess over a fictional category that is based on subjective factors and is irrelevant.

People are hypocritical about this. No one penalizes Dr. J, Jerry West or Oscar for never winning a championship as the best player. Then there is Magic/Kareem. What about cases where one player was better but another performed better in the Finals, like Pierce over Garnett in 2008 or Parker over Duncan in 2007? Look at Bird vs. Magic as an example. Magic is usually ranked ahead of Bird largely because he has 5 rings and Bird has 3. However, Magic was the undisputed best player on his team for only 2 of his championships. Yet all 5 "count" when comparing him to Bird? Heck, Kobe was actually closer to Shaq in 2001 and 2002 than Magic was to Kareem in 1980, but only 2 of Kobe's rings "count" (2009 and 2010), yet all 5 of Magic's "count"?

"Rings as the man" is not always clear. Why should it even matter? If one player was 40% responsible, another 30% responsible, and the other 10 players 30% responsible does that 10% really matter? I look at whether a player was indispensable. If you replaced a player with an above average player at his position would his team still win? If so, I give him less credit.

Magic was clearly better than KAJ in the '82, '87, and '88 Finals (in fact, the Lakers won a title in '88 despite Kareem's awful play.) As for '80, Magic played all six games, and was absolutely brilliant in the clinching game six win, and without Kareem. You can claim that KAJ was the better player in the first five games, but we will never know what Magic would have done had KAJ not played in that series. We do know how the Lakers performed without Kareem.

And Magic was arguably the best Laker in '84, and over the course of the entire playoffs, in '85, as well.

And we know how LA performed before Magic, after Kareem, and then after Magic.