Here is the definition of anti-finals MVP, the cancer, worst finals performance ever

[Derivative]

2004 Finals:

Shaquille O'Neal:
26.6ppg, 10.8rpg, 1.6apg, 63.1%fg, 84 field goals attempted

Kobe Bryant:
22.6ppg, 2.8rpg, 4.4apg, 38.1%fg, 113 field goals attempted


This is worse than when Lebron was passive 2011 finals because at least when Lebron was passive, he wasn't being a ballhog and stopping other teammates to scoring. Here Kobe bryant is taking away 63% shots from Shaq, and instead settling for his 38% shot.

Kobe is the definition of anti-finals mvp, preventing his team from winning the finals and preventing the best player on his team from winning the finals mvp. Here is the worst performance in NBA finals history is a shame.

[NumberSix]

Yes. This is a much bigger stain on Kobe's record than anything any other "superstar" has done. Single handedly chucked them out of a series they clearly should have won.

[gengiskhan]

Yes. This is a much bigger stain on Kobe's record than anything any other "superstar" has done. Single handedly chucked them out of a series they clearly should have won.

this

chucking 38%FG :banghead: when fellow teammate is shooting 63%FG :bowdown:

Talk about desperation to win FMVP which resulted in anti-FMVP. :biggums:

[Trollsmasher]

I agree.

I always laugh when Kobe stans mention LeBron in 2011 as the worst Finals ever, somehow forgetting about this:lol

[KobesFinger]

It was Detroit's game plan to lock down the perimeter and force Shaq to win the series alone. Let's also ignore the fact that he led the team in assists. And LeBron in 2011 is much worse. How do you go from averaging 26/8/6 against Chicago to 18/7/7? He was the 5th leading scorer overall in the series behind Jason Terry who played 12 fewer minutes per game. He prevented D-Wade winning another FMVP

[TheFan]

In Kobe's favor:

Malone and Fisher were injured.

The only game they won, guess who was the hero?

Bad chemistry.

The problem was not offense, it was defense, they couldn't stop Billups.

[ProfessorMurder]

The problem was not offense, it was defense, they couldn't stop Billups.

I thought Kobe was all-d team amazing defender who could stop the other team's best player and still drop 30?

[305Baller]

This was my initial beef with the Kobester. He made up for it though in some ways.

[Young X]

Lebron in 2007 was worse.

[Trollsmasher]

It was Detroit's game plan to lock down the perimeter and force Shaq to win the series alone. Let's also ignore the fact that he led the team in assists. And LeBron in 2011 is much worse. How do you go from averaging 26/8/6 against Chicago to 18/7/7? He was the 5th leading scorer overall in the series behind Jason Terry who played 12 fewer minutes per game. He prevented D-Wade winning another FMVP
So Kobe took 30 shots more:hammerhead:

[KobesFinger]

So Kobe took 30 shots more:hammerhead:

It seems so. If you can't get the ball to your best player, who's the next best option? Injured 40 year old Malone? 35 year old Payton who couldn't play in the triangle? Deavan George?

[kennethgriffin]

i think its worse for a guy whos gonna be 1 for 4 in nba finals with a stain such as 2007, 2011 and 2013 than a guy who is 5 for 7 in nba finals with a stain such as 2004


the reason is... kobe will go down as a legend that was successful in the finals

lebron will go down as a bum who fails 75% of the time

[ripthekik]

Wasn't it Shaq's team?
So Shaq was the one that lost the series. Maybe he's the one that went passive like Lebron in 2011 and forced Kobe to take the heavy burden and those shots :confusedshrug:

Seems like this is on Shaq.

[jzek]

Got carried by Shaq in those 3 titles. Should only have 2 rings, really.

[eliteballer]

Kobe was out of shape from offseason knee and shoulder surgeries, was taking IV's during the playoffs flying to colorado.

Shaq got outblocked and outrebounded by wallace.

Lebrons 2007 and 2011 finals are worse...a lot worse.

[NumberSix]

Got carried by Shaq in those 3 titles. Should only have 2 rings, really.
No, he should have all 5 rings. He was a member of the winning team. They all get the same ring.

[NumberSix]

Kobe was out of shape from offseason knee and shoulder surgeries, was taking IV's during the playoffs flying to colorado.

Shaq got outblocked and outrebounded by wallace.

Lebrons 2007 and 2011 finals are worse...a lot worse.
Yeah, keep trying to convince yourself of that. :roll:

[oh the horror]

Yeah, keep trying to convince yourself of that. :roll:


We don't have to convince ourselves. It's spoken about by a lot of sports media dude. Cry all you want but in collapses people mention Lebron with his 2011 performance.

[NumberSix]

We don't have to convince ourselves. It's spoken about by a lot of sports media dude. Cry all you want but in collapses people mention Lebron with his 2011 performance.
No, that's legit. 2011 is one of the worst finals fails of all time. That's not the debate. 2007 though? :roll:

[Haks]

I think its a known fact that that Kobe's performance in that finals was absolutely terrible but overall it would be insane to say that you would take Lebrons 2011 over kobe's 04

[NumberSix]

I think its a known fact that that Kobe's performance in that finals was absolutely terrible but overall it would be insane to say that you would take Lebrons 2011 over kobe's 04
Its debatable. They both single handedly cost their team a title they clearly should have won.

[branslowski]

Yup, worst ever Finals performer...worst than gettin swept....Kobe 0 rings, 0 finals Mvps..:rolleyes:

[branslowski]

We don't have to convince ourselves. It's spoken about by a lot of sports media dude. Cry all you want but in collapses people mention Lebron with his 2011 performance.

This...Atleast Kobe tried, and hit the clutch shot to win us 1 game....Was garbage, but not worst than Bron, thats a fact.

[DFish24]

Lebron in 2011 was much worse. Worst performance by a super star of all time.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Got carried by Shaq in those 3 titles. Should only have 2 rings, really.

Kobe had a surprisingly good Finals in 2002. Against the leagues best defense no less.

[Magic 32]

Its debatable. They both single handedly cost their team a title they clearly should have won.

Not really.

The Lakers were not close to winning that series.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/bhgh6w.jpg

Shaq averaged 3 shots less than he did in the 2002 finals. Someone had to take shots.

[Nero Tulip]

Yes. This is a much bigger stain on Kobe's record than anything any other "superstar" has done. Single handedly chucked them out of a series they clearly should have won.

People need to stop acting like this series was competitive. The Lakers were really lucky to win one game. It doesn't matter how Kobe played, they were completely outmatched.

[Nero Tulip]

You know what's the problem there? People can't admit they were wrong. That they let hype get to their heads.

The truth is, the Mavs and the Pistons were ****ing great teams.

I believe the Pistons were among the best defensive teams in history. They were one game away from winning it again the next year, against a Spurs team that was a lot better than the 04 Lakers. They also made the conference finals every year for a long time.

As for the Mavs, some people including myself predicted they would win. They were playing insane basketball after the all star break, and I believe they had the highest point differential in the league.

But, people won't admit they were clouded by the Heat and Lakers big names. So they have to blame it on something. Truth is, they deserved to lose, the other team was better.

[Bandito]

Why does people take away from that Pistons team. Those Pistons team dominated the perimeter and the inside to perfection. In the offense Billups was a master strategist and Hamilton, Prince and Rasheed executed their roles perfectly. And Ben was Ben. That team played their hearts out and beat the Titans that are the Lakers.

The Lakers had the Malone injury which was the thing that made them lose honestly.

But nonetheless the Pistons team beat the Lakers because they played their HEARTS out, something Lebron has still to gain after all this years.

[jzek]

Why does people take away from that Pistons team.

Because that team shouldn't have won. They only won because Kobe shot the Lakers out of the title because he wanted to prove that he was The Man.

[Nebraskanball]

Got carried by Shaq in those 3 titles. Should only have 2 rings, really.
You couldn't make it more obvious that you don't watch basketball at all. This is the post of a clueless 13 year old.

[tmacattack33]

It was Detroit's game plan to lock down the perimeter and force Shaq to win the series alone. Let's also ignore the fact that he led the team in assists. And LeBron in 2011 is much worse. How do you go from averaging 26/8/6 against Chicago to 18/7/7? He was the 5th leading scorer overall in the series behind Jason Terry who played 12 fewer minutes per game. He prevented D-Wade winning another FMVP


Whose side are you on here? :oldlol:

That sounds like an argument in favor of why Kobe was such an idiot for not feeding Shaq more and letting LA play through the post.

Yet the rest of what you said seems like ur on Kobe's side here.

[Ca$H]

2004 Finals:

Shaquille O'Neal:
26.6ppg, 10.8rpg, 1.6apg, 63.1%fg, 84 field goals attempted

Kobe Bryant:
22.6ppg, 2.8rpg, 4.4apg, 38.1%fg, 113 field goals attempted


[B]This is worse than when Lebron was passive 2011 finals because at least when Lebron was passive, he wasn't being a ballhog and stopping other teammates to scoring. Here Kobe bryant is taking away 63% shots from Shaq, and instead settling for his 38% shot.

Kobe is the definition of anti-finals mvp, preventing his team from winning the finals and preventing the best player on his team from winning the finals mvp. Here is the worst performance in NBA finals history is a shame.

Kobe was terrible that season due to the rape case. If LeBron had those allegations against him he would sit out the season. If Karl Malone didn't get injured then they would have won.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Lebron in 2007 was worse.
Exactly. Especially considering all they were doing was going under on pick and rolls and asking him to shoot the jumper. And he had a smaller defender on him, who was just negating dribble penetration. He should've been able to shoot over him all day long.

2011 is a crime of a whole different breed, guy was in his absolute prime, was the favorites with a squad talented enough to beat the opposition so there was no excuses there. The total disengaged attitude was appalling as a basketball fan, when you're on the biggest stage with all the world watching, and the biggest prize in basketball is at stake.

They are both major skid marks on his resume. And then throw in the 2010 debacle where he quit on his team, not even giving them a chance to win after game 3 (when they took a 2-1 lead) ... those are some major issues I have with him.

Yea, Kobe shot his team out of contention in 2004 with selfish play. He was focusing on trying to prove himself, and was selfish ... obviously, but at least he was trying to win and compete. Even if the way he went about it was wrong. Yes, he quit and pouted in the 2nd half of game 7 v.s. Phoenix. But he hung in there for the entire series against a superior team. He didn't quit mid way through the series. That's a lesser of two evils compared to LeBron's Quitness.

That's why LeBron has cornered himself into having to do more to re-prove himself in my book. He's taken some nice steps, but still has ways to go to erase the memories of: 2007, 2010, the Decision and 2011.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Inconvenient facts about that series:

- Kobe was the 2nd most efficient Laker for the series
- Field goal attempts and field goal percentage mask Shaq's true offensive involvement in the offense.
-Shaq averaged 11 FTs a game and only made 49% of them
- The 04 Pistons had a defensive rating of 95.4. The 11 Mavs on the other hand had a defensive rating of 105.0.

:confusedshrug:

[Jacks3]

-Rest of the Lakers outside Shaq shot 33%.
-The Lakers lost by an average margin of 15 PPG. Saying that he "shot them out of it" is retarded when they were getting blown out every game. Even if he has an average series, they still lose comfortably.
-The 04 Pistons might be the best defense in history. Statistically, their defense after the Rasheed trade was by far the best in NBA history. The best defenses today are the Pacers and Grizz and the Pistons are wayyyyyy ahead.

LeBron's 2011 Finals were way, way worse.

[DMAVS41]

On a scale of 1 to 10...10 being the worst performance.

Lebron's was a 10 and Kobe's was a 9.5.

Both pathetic.

[qrich]

All hail Chuckbe :bowdown:

[knicksman]

2004 Finals:

Shaquille O'Neal:
26.6ppg, 10.8rpg, 1.6apg, 63.1%fg, 84 field goals attempted

Kobe Bryant:
22.6ppg, 2.8rpg, 4.4apg, 38.1%fg, 113 field goals attempted


This is worse than when Lebron was passive 2011 finals because at least when Lebron was passive, he wasn't being a ballhog and stopping other teammates to scoring. Here Kobe bryant is taking away 63% shots from Shaq, and instead settling for his 38% shot.

Kobe is the definition of anti-finals mvp, preventing his team from winning the finals and preventing the best player on his team from winning the finals mvp. Here is the worst performance in NBA finals history is a shame.

a true definition of alpha. You wouldnt understand this coz you have beta mentality.

[2010splash]

Bar none, the worst Finals performance in NBA history. 2008 was almost as bad, but not quite bad because 1) the Celtics were clearly a better team and 2) in 2004 he had maybe the most stacked team ever featuring prime Shaq and still jacked away at a 38 FG% clip, losing to maybe the biggest underdogs ever (nobody thought Detroit had a prayer).

LeBron's 17/7/7 on like 47 FG% are underwhelming for a player of his caliber but not as bad as what Kobe did.

[Bandito]

Whose side are you on here? :oldlol:

That sounds like an argument in favor of why Kobe was such an idiot for not feeding Shaq more and letting LA play through the post.

Yet the rest of what you said seems like ur on Kobe's side here.
How the fvck are you going to pass it to Shaq when the whole team is preventing that from happening? Only him could create in the backcourt as Payton was useless for some reason and he everytime he tried he was double and sometimes tripleteaming the passing lanes. The Pistons made sure that happened. Why do you think they never double team Shaq?

[Bandito]

On a scale of 1 to 10...10 being the worst performance.

Lebron's was a 10 and Kobe's was a 9.5.

Both pathetic.
I know you are a Kobe hater but it is more like Kobe performance was like an 8 at worst. The Pistons were just playing him good and he got overwhelmed.

Anytime I see members like you underrating the Pistons play in this series it makes me :( . Truth is this Pistons team played way better than they were supposed to play and they did it as a TEAM. because TEAMPLAY > Hero Ball.

[NumberSix]

I know you are a Kobe hater but it is more like Kobe performance was like an 8 at worst. The Pistons were just playing him good and he got overwhelmed.

Anytime I see members like you underrating the Pistons play in this series it makes me :( . Truth is this Pistons team played way better than they were supposed to play and they did it as a TEAM. because TEAMPLAY > Hero Ball.
DMAVS41 is a known Kobe hater.

[TonyMontana]

Kobes performance in that series was truly ****ing pathetic. Lebron underperformed.

Both of these guys guys sucked because they were worried about who was going to get Finals MVP.

Kobe was at the height of his butthurt towards Shaq went. He was tired of everyone calling it Shaqs team and knew he was never going to be taken serious as a basketball legend. So Kobe started chucking shots. He would rather get more shots and lose than take less shots and win. He'd rather see the Pistons hold up the Trophy than see Shaq hold up another Finals MVP.

LeBron on the otherhand didn't want to steal Wades thunder as "the man" in Miami. So he figured he'd try and be an all around guy while letting Wade take the most shots and lead the team. Problem is that isn't LeBrons game so he was wasting his talent.

Both guys learned from their mistakes. LeBron learned if Miami is going to win it all he has to play to his strengths and dominate the way while maximizing his talents(because that is what makes Miami special) while Kobe realized he can't lead a team past the first round, let alone a championship. He ended up throwing another tantrum throwing his players under the bus until LA got hall of famer Pau Gasol in his prime straight up for Kwame brown. Luckily for LA Gasol doesn't have an ego at all, so he didn't care about Kobe taking all of the credit.

[Bandito]

DMAVS41 is a known Kobe hater.

...I know you are a Kobe hater...I know:roll: :roll: :roll: . Thanks for the info though...:applause:

[Bandito]

LeBron on the otherhand didn't want to steal Wades thunder as "the man" in Miami. So he figured he'd try and be an all around guy while letting Wade take the most shots and lead the team. Problem is that isn't LeBrons game so he was wasting his talent. Sure and that wasn't why he didn't overdribble and pass at the last seconds for 20 seconds per 24 seconds of each play :roll:

[longtime lurker]

2004 Finals:

Shaquille O'Neal:
26.6ppg, 10.8rpg, 1.6apg, 63.1%fg, 84 field goals attempted

Kobe Bryant:
22.6ppg, 2.8rpg, 4.4apg, 38.1%fg, 113 field goals attempted


This is worse than when Lebron was passive 2011 finals because at least when Lebron was passive, he wasn't being a ballhog and stopping other teammates to scoring. Here Kobe bryant is taking away 63% shots from Shaq, and instead settling for his 38% shot.

Kobe is the definition of anti-finals mvp, preventing his team from winning the finals and preventing the best player on his team from winning the finals mvp. Here is the worst performance in NBA finals history is a shame.

Lebron fans feeling the Heat so as always they need to make a thread about Kobe. Typical Derivative trash. You should post as your real account you fakkit

[Ca$H]

If Shaq was so good that he "gifted" and "carried" Kobe to three rings it should be irrelevant how Kobe plays right haters? I mean why couldn't he just rebound all of Kobe's missed shots since he was apparently so good that he is the only man in NBA history capable of winning an NBA title by himself. If Kobe gets no credit for playing well for the 1st three titles then he should also be exempt from his 2004 performance since it is Shaq's responsibility to carry and gift all of his teammates. If you haters want to erase his three rings with Shaq then you have to erase his failures with shaq as well.

Why did Shaq fail to carry/gift Kobe in 2004?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

If Shaq was so good that he "gifted" and "carried" Kobe to three rings it should be irrelevant how Kobe plays right haters? I mean why couldn't he just rebound all of Kobe's missed shots since he was apparently so good that he is the only man in NBA history capable of winning an NBA title by himself. If Kobe gets no credit for playing well for the 1st three titles then he should also be exempt from his 2004 performance since it is Shaq's responsibility to carry and gift all of his teammates. If you haters want to erase his three rings with Shaq then you have to erase his failures with shaq as well.

Why did Shaq fail to carry/gift Kobe in 2004?

He didn't get a chance to. How could he carry Kobe when Kobe refused to pass him the ball?

[Bandito]

He didn't get a chance to. How could he carry Kobe when Kobe refused to pass him the ball?
Sure and the Pistons were just standing there while Kobe shot and missed everything...riiiiiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhhhtttttttt tt...

[TonyMontana]

Why did Shaq fail to carry/gift Kobe in 2004?

Because Shaq is a bigman, he cant get the ball if Kobe is shooting 22.6 FG attempts per game on 38.1% field goal percentage. :oldlol:

[CAstill]

He didn't get a chance to. How could he carry Kobe when Kobe refused to pass him the ball?


Kobe didn't refuse to pass him the ball, Shaq got D'd up by Ben Wallace. If the Lakers would of had Malone or just simply not had Payton on the floor we could be talking abut a whole different outcome.

[Ca$H]

Because Shaq is a bigman, he cant get the ball if Kobe is shooting 22.6 FG attempts per game on 38.1% field goal percentage. :oldlol:

Why couldn't Shaq get every offensive rebound. I thought he was god? Someone who carries all of his teammates means he is responsible for their every action both positive and negative. If he gets all the credit for Kobe's postive contributions then he gets all the blame for his negative contributions. That is the way carrying works. If Kobe gets no credit for the wins then he gets no blame for losses. Kobe Bryant's career began in the 2004-2005 season.

[Bandito]

Why couldn't Shaq get every offensive rebound. I thought he was god? Someone who carries all of his teammates means he is responsible for their every action both positive and negative. If he gets all the credit for Kobe's postive contributions then he gets all the blame for his negative contributions. That is the way carrying works.
Not in his delusional world. In his world Lebron is..wait for it....better than MJ!!!:roll: :roll: :lol :lol :lol :oldlol: :oldlol: :banana:

[CAstill]

Because Shaq is a bigman, he cant get the ball if Kobe is shooting 22.6 FG attempts per game on 38.1% field goal percentage. :oldlol:

What? Kobe missing all those shots and the MDE can't rebound and dictate the paint over way smaller defenders? Should be easy since Kobe was so useless right?

[Scholar]

I love how after LeBron proves he's still bitch made under pressure, LeBron dick riders have to make a thread bashing Kobe. It just goes to show how pathetic these "fans" really are.

[branslowski]

I love how after LeBron proves he's still bitch made under pressure, LeBron dick riders have to make a thread bashing Kobe. It just goes to show how pathetic these "fans" really are.

Tru:oldlol:

[No_Look604]

Are you guys serious?

I'd rather go out swinging than tucking my ******* in between my legs like Lebron did in the 2011 finals. True biiiiltch

[9512]

Got carried by Shaq in those 3 titles. Should only have 2 rings, really.

And amongst those 2 rings, Gasol should've been FMVP in 2010

[Magic 32]

And amongst those 2 rings, Gasol should've been FMVP in 2010

http://i53.tinypic.com/iwkilw.gif

[pauk]

He wasnt that good in 2000 Finals either, they still won but anyways (Shaq was just to much)

15.6 ppg @ 18 FGA (33 of 90 = 36.6 FG%)
4.6 rpg
4.2 apg

[dh144498]

you can clearly see the trend that everyone who agrees with OP, including OP himself, are all lebron stans. :oldlol:

[Derivative]

you can clearly see the trend that everyone who agrees with OP, including OP himself, are all lebron stans. :oldlol:


or with an above average IQ

[Boomerang]

or with an above average IQ
for an retard.

[deja vu]

This is just like voting who is the smellier sh*t. :roll:

[dh144498]

or with an above average IQ

yes, lebron stans think Lebron > MJ and they also have high IQs.
everyone else are inferior.
:oldlol:

[Magic 32]

He wasnt that good in 2000 Finals either, they still won but anyways (Shaq was just to much)

15.6 ppg @ 18 FGA (33 of 90 = 36.6 FG%)
4.6 rpg
4.2 apg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Ankle_en.svg/230px-Ankle_en.svg.png

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/sites/default/files/images/11w/2011/03/jalen-rose.jpg

[Sarcastic]

Kobe sucked in 2004, but at least he was trying to win.

Lebron in 2011 was trying to lose, to make sure Wade didn't get the FMVP.

[K Xerxes]

It was an awful awful performance, and up there with LeBron's disappearance as the worst in NBA history by a superstar. He gave his team no chance with the amount of shots he took, while in a couple of games I remember, Shaq had frightening efficiency but took a paltry number of shots. I do not expect Kobe fanatics to understand thsi of course.

[Magic 32]

He gave his team no chance with the amount of shots he took, while in a couple of games I remember, Shaq had frightening efficiency but took a paltry number of shots.

Explain this:

http://oi39.tinypic.com/ohljix.jpg

[K Xerxes]

Explain this:

http://oi39.tinypic.com/ohljix.jpg

Explain what? Shaq shot 20% better than Kobe,only had one more shot attempt, shot less FTs.

Game 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406060LAL.html) - 11 more shots, 3 less shots made

Game 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406130DET.html) - 4 more shots, 8 less shots made

Game 5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406150DET.html) - 8 more shots, 0 more shots made

Only game Kobe played well was game 2, where they actually won the game. Every other game, he had extremely poor efficiency, jacked up similar, if not far more, shots than Shaq did. And they lost those games. Surprise surprise.

[Magic 32]

Explain what? Shaq shot 20% better than Kobe,only had one more shot attempt, shot less FTs.

Game 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406060LAL.html) - 11 more shots, 3 less shots made

Game 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406130DET.html) - 4 more shots, 8 less shots made

Game 5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406150DET.html) - 8 more shots, 0 more shots made

Only game Kobe played well was game 2, where they actually won the game. Every other game, he had extremely poor efficiency, jacked up similar, if not far more, shots than Shaq did. And they lost those games. Surprise surprise.

Why did Shaq only shot 14 times?

Surely it was Kobe who took shots away from him.

Or could it be that Kobe was more willing to take bailout shots when the offence broke down (as it did all the time).

[K Xerxes]

Why did Shaq only shot 14 times?

Surely it was Kobe who took shots away from him.

Or could it be that Kobe was more willing to take bailout shots when the offence broke down (as it did all the time).

Was wondering when this excuse would come out. You did not disappoint. :applause:

[Magic 32]

Was wondering when this excuse would come out. You did not disappoint. :applause:

Great defence. You did not disappoint

The lakers offence was in complete chaos in that series.

[K Xerxes]

Great defence. You did not disappoint

The lakers offence was in complete chaos in that series.

Not as good as Kobe's defence on Shaq... who else could hold him to 17 shots per game when he's averaging 27-11 on 63% shooting.

Kobe = true FMVP for Pistons. :bowdown:

[Magic 32]

Not as good as Kobe's defence on Shaq... who else could hold him to 17 shots per game when he's averaging 27-11 on 63% shooting.

Kobe = true FMVP for Pistons. :bowdown:

http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/assets_c/2011/07/BOBSAGIF_ohh-thumb-350x233-21185.gif

[Dengness9]

You know what's the problem there? People can't admit they were wrong. That they let hype get to their heads.

The truth is, the Mavs and the Pistons were ****ing great teams.

I believe the Pistons were among the best defensive teams in history. They were one game away from winning it again the next year, against a Spurs team that was a lot better than the 04 Lakers. They also made the conference finals every year for a long time.

As for the Mavs, some people including myself predicted they would win. They were playing insane basketball after the all star break, and I believe they had the highest point differential in the league.

But, people won't admit they were clouded by the Heat and Lakers big names. So they have to blame it on something. Truth is, they deserved to lose, the other team was better.


I really like the honesty and props here. I mostly agree with this.

I must throw an angle in the mix.

I think the Wade/James celebration in front of the Mavs bench and the Wade James mocking Dirk being "sick" tunnel entrance, might have been the 2nd most instrumental part of the Mavs knocking off the Heat.

I mostly blame Lebron for completely disappearing as a superstar and as the top dog in the NBA. I don't blame the kid in 07 for the loss to the Spurs.

But this was different. I don't care what excuse anyone gives me about age, experience, nothing. He was the best player in the L w/out question and turned into a shell of himself which is still better than most players TBH.

However the 4th quarters he had ,are what to me, makes his 11 finals the biggest failure a superstar has had in the finals. It's absolutely inexcusable and frankly still hard to believe. He was a ghost in the 4th on the biggest stage and moments of his life, completely shook.

Wade and James provoking Dirk and the veteran Mavs was fatal. To disrespect Dirk, who had been at for more years than them already having squandered a 2-0 finals lead himself, he wasnt gonna take that shit from those punks. Jason Terry was so pissed he said he was gonna out score Lebron and did it fearlessly showing LBJ what it's like to get punked. Chandler and Marion are competitors who weren't gonna lose to a team like the Heat. I just can't say enough how much those 2 acts revved up Dallas, it was already personal, but that stuff took it to a level of extreme pride. The Mavs just wouldn't be denied.

Lebron told us not 7, not 8 but then put up 2 pts a game in the 4th in a 6 game finals loss with home court and arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player in the NBA as a teammate, plus Bosh an Allstar. It was shocking not seeing Lebron going fiercely at the Mavs, especially not in the 4th. Especially since he knew the whole world wanted him to lose. It looked like no one would deny him after the Bulls series. Being shook is the only explanation for me.


Worst finals performance/choke ever.


Sidenote: KOBE IS LUCKY AS **** HE HAD SHAQUILLE O'NEAL. 3 FMVPS says it all and he would of won the 4th FMVP if the lakers would have won.

[K Xerxes]

http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/assets_c/2011/07/BOBSAGIF_ohh-thumb-350x233-21185.gif

Just trolling a seasoned troll.

[Magic 32]

Sidenote: KOBE IS LUCKY AS **** HE HAD SHAQUILLE O'NEAL. 3 FMVPS says it all and he would of won the 4th FMVP if the lakers would have won.

How is he lucky when nobody gives him credit for 25 5 5.

[Scholar]

He wasnt that good in 2000 Finals either, they still won but anyways (Shaq was just to much)

15.6 ppg @ 18 FGA (33 of 90 = 36.6 FG%)
4.6 rpg
4.2 apg

STFU, man. You probably didn't even know what basketball was back then. Jalen Rose intentionally injured Kobe because his teammates couldn't stop him.

If you watched basketball games other than ones involving LeBron James, you'd know a lot more than you do now.

[Doranku]

Like others have said, Bronzy in 2007 and 2011 was much worse.

2007 was just a flat out awful performance from every standpoint. Completely trash the entire series. 35% shooting, 6 TOs a game, invisible in the clutch... pretty much everything that Bronzy is criticized for magnified in one series.

2011, supposed best player in the league DISAPPEARS yet again and is outscored by 6th man Jason Terry over the course of 6 games. Unparalleled in NBA history where the best player in the league is outperformed by such an inferior player.

[FLDFSU]

Like others have said, Bronzy in 2007 and 2011 was much worse.

2007 was just a flat out awful performance from every standpoint. Completely trash the entire series. 35% shooting, 6 TOs a game, invisible in the clutch... pretty much everything that Bronzy is criticized for magnified in one series.

2011, supposed best player in the league DISAPPEARS yet again and is outscored by 6th man Jason Terry over the course of 6 games. Unparalleled in NBA history where the best player in the league is outperformed by such an inferior player.


Kobe was the best player in the league in 2011 though.

[NBASTATMAN]

Yes. This is a much bigger stain on Kobe's record than anything any other "superstar" has done. Single handedly chucked them out of a series they clearly should have won.


THANK YOU KOBE:applause:

[K Xerxes]

You can definitely make the argument that LeBron's 2011 performance was far worse, but, seriously, there is no way that LeBron's 2007 performance is worse. He was 22, first finals, against a far superior experienced team that prepared for him perfectly, with vastly inferior team mates. He wasn't great, but he had no chance.

[Brunch@Five]

Kobe tried to do things he shouldn't have done.
Lebron didn't try to do things he should have done.

What Kobe did is more reprehensible IMO, because he ostensibly only played for himself and no one else. Bron at least COULD have been bailed out by Wade and Bosh. Kobe didn't give anyone the chance and actively kept the Lakers out of contending for the series.

Anyone who was old enough in 2004 knows this.

[Purch]

You guys seriously can't be arguing that Lebron's 07 finals performance was worse than Kobe's in 04. I can understand 11, but 07? Really?

[Doranku]

You guys seriously can't be arguing that Lebron's 07 finals performance was worse than Kobe's in 04. I can understand 11, but 07? Really?

22 ppg on 35/20/69 with 6 TOs a game. Doesn't get much worse than that. :roll:

[K Xerxes]

22 ppg on 35/20/69 with 6 TOs a game. Doesn't get much worse than that. :roll:

LeBron haters despise LeBron stans using stats without context, and yet you're doing the exact same thing here. No surprise since it's all agenda driven bs.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe tried to do things he shouldn't have done.
Lebron didn't try to do things he should have done.

What Kobe did is more reprehensible IMO, because he ostensibly only played for himself and no one else. Bron at least COULD have been bailed out by Wade and Bosh. Kobe didn't give anyone the chance and actively kept the Lakers out of contending for the series.

Anyone who was old enough in 2004 knows this.

What is the origin of this fantasy?

How many shot attempts do you imagine Shaq is going to get when they can send him to the line at will?

Should Shaq averaged 50? 60? 70 points?

[DMV2]

Does anybody remember who the unsung hero of Lakers Game 2 win over Detroit was? Most remembered Kobe tying 3 to sent the game to OT but.....

It was rookie guard Luke Walton who sparked their comeback. I don't remember his stats but his energy and hustle got them back in the game.

They would have been swept if it wasn't for Luke fcking Walton. :lol

[Ne 1]

The easy narrative of the Lakers losing that series that people like to latch onto (particularly Kobe detractors) is that Kobe was gunning for Finals MVP because he was tired of being viewed as Shaq's second fiddle and then after that he forced Shaq out of L.A., but that's pretty far from the actual truth on both accounts. It's not a coincidence that the biggest blow-out for Detroit that series came in the game where Bryant only took 13 shots. They literally had nobody who could create anything on the perimeter and nobody who could shoot. At times they were running a lineup of Kobe, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, Devean George, and Derek Fisher. With Malone, Grant, and Rick Fox injured, they no longer had Robert Horry, and as I already pointed out Payton was totally ineffective, this may be a worse team top to bottom than Kobe's 2006 squad outside of Shaq. But its more fun to imagine Kobe dribbling down the court with devil horns sticking out of his head, cackling like a mad scientist as he jacks up 30 foot fade-aways over 5 defenders while Shaq is under the rim wide open, on both knees, hands clasped together begging for the ball. We actually tried to force-feed Shaq plenty. It was almost as good for a turnover as it was a field goal. The game Kobe had the least shot attempts, 13, Shaq still only shot 14 times. If Bryant's chucking was the only thing preventing Shaq from getting the rock and putting it in the hole, you'd think he'd have shot 25+ times with Kobe easing up, but that's not how basketball works.

It is how good the Pistons defense was though. "You want to get the ball inside? Good luck." They weren't holding teams to <80ppg because they didn't know how to handle post players. Actually getting the basketball in the paint was a bitch, be you perimeter player or bigman.

The guards outside of Kobe shot 30% for the series. The small forwards (Walton and George) shot 40%. The team as a whole shot 33% outside of Shaq. Nobody was making shots from the perimeter when Kobe fed them, and the Pistons made it difficult to feed Shaq inside the way they would have liked to. Kobe is Kobe, and he thinks he can make anything no matter what. Do the math.

[Dengness9]

You can definitely make the argument that LeBron's 2011 performance was far worse, but, seriously, there is no way that LeBron's 2007 performance is worse. He was 22, first finals, against a far superior experienced team that prepared for him perfectly, with vastly inferior team mates. He wasn't great, but he had no chance.


This.

[Dengness9]

LeBron haters despise LeBron stans using stats without context, and yet you're doing the exact same thing here. No surprise since it's all agenda driven bs.


This again.


Doranku, you can't be serious with that BS. I wouldn't mind if Lebron stopped breathing today but 07 hate? He had no chance against the Spurs and rightfully so.

You have no credibility with the argument you're trying to pull.

Kobe or any 22yr old star would fail trying to beat that 07 Spurs team. Kobe would have shot under 40 percent too.

[Bandito]

The easy narrative of the Lakers losing that series that people like to latch onto (particularly Kobe detractors) is that Kobe was gunning for Finals MVP because he was tired of being viewed as Shaq's second fiddle and then after that he forced Shaq out of L.A., but that's pretty far from the actual truth on both accounts. It's not a coincidence that the biggest blow-out for Detroit that series came in the game where Bryant only took 13 shots. They literally had nobody who could create anything on the perimeter and nobody who could shoot. At times they were running a lineup of Kobe, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, Devean George, and Derek Fisher. With Malone, Grant, and Rick Fox injured, they no longer had Robert Horry, and as I already pointed out Payton was totally ineffective, this may be a worse team top to bottom than Kobe's 2006 squad outside of Shaq. But its more fun to imagine Kobe dribbling down the court with devil horns sticking out of his head, cackling like a mad scientist as he jacks up 30 foot fade-aways over 5 defenders while Shaq is under the rim wide open, on both knees, hands clasped together begging for the ball. We actually tried to force-feed Shaq plenty. It was almost as good for a turnover as it was a field goal. The game Kobe had the least shot attempts, 13, Shaq still only shot 14 times. If Bryant's chucking was the only thing preventing Shaq from getting the rock and putting it in the hole, you'd think he'd have shot 25+ times with Kobe easing up, but that's not how basketball works.

It is how good the Pistons defense was though. "You want to get the ball inside? Good luck." They weren't holding teams to <80ppg because they didn't know how to handle post players. Actually getting the basketball in the paint was a bitch, be you perimeter player or bigman.

The guards outside of Kobe shot 30% for the series. The small forwards (Walton and George) shot 40%. The team as a whole shot 33% outside of Shaq. Nobody was making shots from the perimeter when Kobe fed them, and the Pistons made it difficult to feed Shaq inside the way they would have liked to. Kobe is Kobe, and he thinks he can make anything no matter what. Do the math.
:applause:

The Pistons were just that good. THe played as perfectly as they could and won.

[LAZERUSS]

An interesting sidenote, and something which is seldom mentioned...

Shaq came into the Finals, well rested, and in game one, he shot 13-16 for 34 points. In game four, and on two days rest, he shot 16-21 for 38 points.

In games in which he played with only one day of rest inbetween, he played considerably worse.

Now, I am not blaming Shaq for that series loss. Kobe played poorly, and the rest of the Laker roster contributed absolutely nothing, but if there was one area in which you could possible find fault with Shaq, it was that he seemed to play considerably better with more rest, at least later in his career.

[Element]

Lol Op is a retard

Shaq wasnt drawing any defensive attention. The Wallace's played him with single coverage throughout the entire series

Meanwhile, when Kobe gave up the ball, who was supposed to make a shot? Injured Malone? Washed up GP? Fish? Slava?

Of course his shot selection was horrible but he went up against the GOAT defensive team. It's no coincidence that the only game they won was won by Kobe. Plus GP was getting torched big time by Billups while Kobr was busy playing firefighter on Tayshaun and Rip, until GP manned up and said he straight up couldn't guard Chauncey, at which point Kobe did his job and locked him up.

Healthy Malone and I say we would've won. Offensively his mere presence would've openend up the floor big time and given us a legit scoring option , let alone his production.

I don't believe any wing player could've won that series with the same Laker team. Not Lebron, not MJ, not Wade or Tmac etc. Yeah, even MJ would need to get hot to have a chance with the way everyone else was sucking as well.

[Doranku]

LeBron haters despise LeBron stans using stats without context, and yet you're doing the exact same thing here. No surprise since it's all agenda driven bs.
What context?

His team got swept because he played like dogshit. Is that the context you're talking about? He shot 8-56 on shots outside the paint. That is flat out embarrassing. There is no context that justifies missing 48 of 56 jump shots.

He was awful. Plain and simple.

[Brunch@Five]

Of course his shot selection was horrible but he went up against the GOAT defensive team. It's no coincidence that the only game they won was won by Kobe. Plus GP was getting torched big time by Billups while Kobr was busy playing firefighter on Tayshaun and Rip, until GP manned up and said he straight up couldn't guard Chauncey, at which point Kobe did his job and locked him up.


Kobe played horrible defense that series. What are you talking about.

Kobe CLEARLY lost the Lakers that series. Take the pivotal game 4, Lakers down 1-2. Shaq goes off for 36/20/2 on 16/21 shooting, only 2 TOs. Kobe? 20/0/2 on 8/25 shooting.
No one is saying that Shaq could have put up '00 or '01 numbers had Kobe only let him. Kobe simply stunk it up, didn't play team ball and didn't hit shots. Played with low BBall IQ all around.

[aau]

Kobe played horrible defense that series. What are you talking about. Kobe CLEARLY lost the Lakers that series.

make sh!t up much

his defense wasn't the problem

.

A Look Back at Kobe's First NBA Finals Loss

Game One

With Kobe Bryant struggling against the defense of Tayshaun Prince, the scoring burden fell on O'Neal and the rest of the Lakers. Shaq answered, making 13-of-16 shots for 34 points. However, the rest of the Lakers would score only 16 points.

Despite poor shooting, Bryant's defense on Pistons leading scorer Richard Hamilton was key to holding Detroit to just 87 points. Hamilton went just 5-of-16 from the field. However, Gary Payton's sub-par defense on Chauncey Billups, who hit 8-of-14 shots, as well as Derek Fisher's 1-for-9 shooting performance, would be just enough for Detroit to win.

(nope , kobe's man)

.

Game Two

Coming off a Game One loss at home, L.A. desperately needed a victory. Bryant would provide it, with one of the great clutch performances in NBA Finals history.

Bryant began the game by providing more sensational defense on Richard Hamilton. Hamilton would finish shooting 10-for-25. However, this game would not be defined by defense. It would defined by the shooting of Kobe Bryant.

After scoring 26 points on some of the most difficult shots imaginable, Bryant would hit one of the biggest shots of his career up to that point. Trailing by three, Bryant would rise up and nail a three-pointer over of the defense of Hamilton with 2.1 seconds remaining in regulation.

(imagine that)

.

Game Three

Having turned in one of his greatest Finals performances in Game Two, Bryant would follow with perhaps his worst. While every one of Lakers struggled mightily, the struggles of O'Neal and Bryant were the most shocking. The fact that the two had already won three titles together made the Pistons' defensive dominance all the more dumbfounding.

Bryant would struggle at both ends of the court. He scored 11 points while
Hamilton and Billips combined for 50 points. Shaq had career low 14 points.

(only bad game defensively)

.

Game Four

In a game that demonstrated Bryant's importance to the team over O'Neal's, the Lakers were pushed to the brink of their first Finals loss since 1991. O'Neal would dominate with 36 points and 20 rebounds, but Bryant would struggle through an 8-for-25 shooting performance.

The game was tied entering the fourth quarter when Detroit exploded for 32 points in the final frame, with Rasheed Wallace abusing an injured Karl Malone and an overwhelmed Slava Medvedenko.

(nope , kobe was guarding them)

.

Game Five

In shockingly dominant fashion, the Detroit Pistons finished off the Los Angeles Lakers in Game Five. Bryant would struggle spectacularly, taking and missing difficult jump shots throughout the game. While two Lakers outside of O'Neal and Bryant would finally score in double figures, it was not enough.

.

no doubt he played a bad series

but to blame his effort defensively is just sad