Tmac: Jordan played vs men

[andgar923]

For what it

[ripthekik]

[QUOTE=andgar923]For what it

[diamenz]

tonymontana will not be seen in this thread.

[ripthekik]

tonymontana will not be seen in this thread.
There will only be men in this thread.

[Meticode]

One word...

Oakley

[Inferno]

There will only be men in this thread.

:lol

[ripthekik]

One word...

Oakley
Oakley, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, David Robinson, etc

btw I did a quick google search and found that someone else said the exact same thing:

[QUOTE]I asked Monty whether or not LeBron dominates games the same way that Jordan does, given that he played against both, and the response was stellar

[Anfernee]

One word...

Oakley

I had the exact same thought :oldlol:

[HardwoodLegend]

LeBron is too athletic for those creaky men though.

Too fast, too high-flying.

[Vragrant]

You want to look at Jordan's contemporaries in his prime?

http://cdn.tss.uproxx.com/TSS/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/dream-team-photo.jpg

Some of the best players of all time.

Some players are not even on there like Hakeem and Thomas.

What is Lebron's biggest competition these days? Kevin Durant and he's a pretty much a baby. Then a major dropoff after that. You know its a watered down boys' league when the supposed 2nd best player in the league still wears a backpack to the arena:oldlol:

[Nebraskanball]

Players are the same age now.

I think the surplus of mustaches is throwing everyone off.

[andgar923]

You want to look at Jordan's contemporaries in his prime?

http://cdn.tss.uproxx.com/TSS/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/dream-team-photo.jpg

Some of the best players of all time.

Some players are not even on there like Hakeem and Thomas.

What is Lebron's biggest competition these days? Kevin Durant and he's a pretty much a baby. Then a major dropoff after that. You know its a watered down boys' league when the supposed 2nd best player in the league still wears a backpack to the arena:oldlol:

Almost all of those players were grimy, tough and physical. At the very least they were smarter and experienced.

But the scary part isn't the main stars, it was the role playing enforcers those were the ones to fear the most. Cats like Otis Thorpe wasn't gonna play, Kevin Willis will bust yo teef, you can go down the line of tough players from top to bottom almost an entire roster that will elbow you as you passed by for no reason other than that's how they were thought to play, and that's what their coach expects them to do.

Scott Skiles would be the hardest mufuhka in the league today (exaggerating a bit, but point is made). And he's a small Rob Corddry, Genesis drum playing, Jason Alexander lookalike .

[inclinerator]

t back is just mad he cant get playing time over boys

[elementally morale]

More like: It's McGrady who got a lot older. There were and are a lot of 25-30 year old guy in the NBA.

At 20, he saw 30 year-olds as grown men. At 35, he sees 25 year-olds as little boys. To someone like Bill Russell, even your father is a youngster.

[Ca$H]

More like: It's McGrady who got a lot older. There were and are a lot of 25-30 year old guy in the NBA.

At 20, he saw 30 year-olds as grown men. At 35, he sees 25 year-olds as little boys. To someone like Bill Russell, even your father is a youngster.

he is talking about age. He is talking about manliness/toughness

[andgar923]

:facepalm

People not understanding that he's not referring to age.

[Nebraskanball]

:facepalm

People not understanding that he's not referring to age.
We understand it fine. It's just a stupid comment, that's all.

[andgar923]

We understand it fine. It's just a stupid comment, that's all.

Not all you undestand what he meant.

No it's not.

He hasn't been the first nor will he be the last to mention it.

[K Xerxes]

The league became softer by the late 90s, so I'm not sure what Tmac is referring to unless it's tape he watched.

[Orlando Magic]

It's not a stupid comment because I can guarantee you without looking it up that the average age of an NBA player has decreased since the 80s and 90s.

KG, KB, TMG etc all coming out of HS and being successful started a trend of drafting guys that were extremely young. whereas most players from the previous era were college graduates.

And even if he's not talking about actual age but maturity level and the way the players approach the game or carry themselves... Well he'd be right on that count too.




But on the flip side of the coin... LeBron was also one of those "boys" so how can that be held against him? LeBron at 19 is probably the indisputable GOAT 19 year old.


It's crazy to think we have 10 year vets that aren't even 30 though lol.

[andgar923]

The league became softer by the late 90s, so I'm not sure what Tmac is referring to unless it's tape he watched.

It started to become softer I agree. That's because the amount of physical contact was getting out of hand for some.

I think the main reason the NBA insituted the new rules was to protect their highly payed stars. The owners had to protect their investments, the league's reputation was also taking a hit partially aided by the new influx of younger hip hop era who were associated with having a 'thug' attitude. They were however posers, the old school cats were actually tougher.

Young bloods trying to earn a rep, old school trying to show them how its done.

[KOBE143]

In the late 90s, Kobe was the man among men.. Dude dropped 30+ points easily against the Defending Champs MJ Bulls and he's only 17.. I think that is what T-Mac means.. You dont need to be old to be a man.. Even a teen Kobe can be a man among men.. ManBe :bowdown:

[Poetry]

Dude dropped 30+ points easily against the Defending Champs MJ Bulls and he's only 17..

I thought he was 19 (not 17) during that game?

[AintNoSunshine]

:bowdown: cant get out the first round against boys

[sportjames23]

There will only be men in this thread.


Say word. :cheers:

[icewill36]

I've always been a big tmac fan, but he is always saying dumb sh!t in interviews

[vegasbigshots]

One word...

Oakley

I ll add Mahorn and Rodman. A team like the bad boys of Detriot and Birds Celtic 's. Dirty players but effective.

[jlip]

I'm a couple of years older than T-Mac, and I've said this many times in the past. The one thing that I've feared is happening. That is my generation is turning into our father's generation. We're becoming the "old men", past our prime glorifying the "good old days" and how tough it used to be back in the day. I talked about this in my "Back in my Day' Phenomenon" thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290786). Wilt and Russell's generation spoke of how tough it was to play in the 60's and 70's and how soft the league had gotten by the late 80's and 90's. I just finished watching this interview between Bill Russell and Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/russell_duncan_pt1.html), and the issue of the difference between eras was brought up. At the 3:40 mark Bill Russell said,

"We [players of his era] almost threw up when they threw in flagrant fouls...That's why those guys wear those long shorts, cause they play like girls."

Flagrant fouls were introduced into the league during the 80's if I'm not mistaken. Long shorts were introduced into the NBA during the 90's. Actually MJ went to the long shorts style in 1989. (http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/shaun_powell/07/20/michael-jordan-long-shorts/index.html) So basically by the mid- late 90's according to Russell, MJ was playing in a league that played like girls.

I'm not implying that things may not have been more physical in the past. They probably were. I have been watching the NBA since 1987, but a lot of the stuff being spewed by older players who are on the verge of retirement or have retired are borderline nostalgic hyperbole, and in 20 years, Lebron, CP3, and Wade will be telling us how tough it was to play in the 2010's and how the players of the 2030's couldn't make it in their era.

[miller-time]

The league became softer by the late 90s, so I'm not sure what Tmac is referring to unless it's tape he watched.

He came in at the tail end of the Jordan era. Guys like Hakeem, Malone, Stockton, Robinson, Ewing, Mutombo, Pippen were still getting around.

But I think T-mac's observation is actually reflection of society today in general. Men are acting softer, I mean I will even admit I am nearly 30 and have only just started getting to the point where my parents were at when they were in their early 20s. My life has been a lot easier than it was for my parents - both for better and worse. I can say in my early 20s I was still pretty immature and not interested in doing hard work, I assumed because nearly everything had been handed to me up to that point the free ride would just continue. Not so. Men back then knew that working was the difference between living and falling to the bottom. If I don't work, even now, I won't fall too far before my parents catch me. The difference is I am starting to realize the value of hard work simply in and of itself. Working in a way IS the reward.

[jzek]

Greatest of all time.

[STATUTORY]

I'm a couple of years older than T-Mac, and I've said this many times in the past. The one thing that I've feared is happening. That is my generation is turning into our father's generation. We're becoming the "old men", past our prime glorifying the "good old days" and how tough it used to be back in the day. I talked about this in my "Back in my Day' Phenomenon" thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290786). Wilt and Russell's generation spoke of how tough it was to play in the 60's and 70's and how soft the league had gotten by the late 80's and 90's. I just finished watching this interview between Bill Russell and Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/russell_duncan_pt1.html), and the issue of the difference between eras was brought up. At the 3:40 mark Bill Russell said,

"We [players of his era] almost threw up when they threw in flagrant fouls...That's why those guys wear those long shorts, cause they play like girls."

Flagrant fouls were introduced into the league during the 80's if I'm not mistaken. Long shorts were introduced into the NBA during the 90's. Actually MJ went to the long shorts style in 1989. (http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/shaun_powell/07/20/michael-jordan-long-shorts/index.html) So basically by the mid- late 90's according to Russell, MJ was playing in a league that played like girls.

I'm not implying that things may not have been more physical in the past. They probably were. I have been watching the NBA since 1987, but a lot of the stuff being spewed by older players who are on the verge of retirement or have retired are borderline nostalgic hyperbole, and in 20 years, Lebron, CP3, and Wade will be telling us how tough it was to play in the 2010's and how the players of the 2030's couldn't make it in their era.

every generation becomes their father's generation, people are relatively constant in their development

[Doranku]

Yeah, it must've been Hell out there going against Dan Majerle and Jeff Hornacek every night. :roll:

[K Xerxes]

I'm a couple of years older than T-Mac, and I've said this many times in the past. The one thing that I've feared is happening. That is my generation is turning into our father's generation. We're becoming the "old men", past our prime glorifying the "good old days" and how tough it used to be back in the day. I talked about this in my "Back in my Day' Phenomenon" thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290786). Wilt and Russell's generation spoke of how tough it was to play in the 60's and 70's and how soft the league had gotten by the late 80's and 90's. I just finished watching this interview between Bill Russell and Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/russell_duncan_pt1.html), and the issue of the difference between eras was brought up. At the 3:40 mark Bill Russell said,

"We [players of his era] almost threw up when they threw in flagrant fouls...That's why those guys wear those long shorts, cause they play like girls."

Flagrant fouls were introduced into the league during the 80's if I'm not mistaken. Long shorts were introduced into the NBA during the 90's. Actually MJ went to the long shorts style in 1989. (http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/shaun_powell/07/20/michael-jordan-long-shorts/index.html) So basically by the mid- late 90's according to Russell, MJ was playing in a league that played like girls.

I'm not implying that things may not have been more physical in the past. They probably were. I have been watching the NBA since 1987, but a lot of the stuff being spewed by older players who are on the verge of retirement or have retired are borderline nostalgic hyperbole, and in 20 years, Lebron, CP3, and Wade will be telling us how tough it was to play in the 2010's and how the players of the 2030's couldn't make it in their era.

This is a brilliant post (and thread btw). I thought that this nostalgia would manifest itself from the 60s/70s but I couldn't really find much quotes on it. Thanks.

I never take the era comparisons seriously because it's skewed by nostalgia, all eras have their own strengths and weaknesses, and each player can only play the era in front of them. For example, a critical point that the 'LeBron in the 80/90s would suck' argument misses is that launching him into a different era and style of basketball fails to account for adjustments he would make in modelling his game. How is it fair?

I was there for most of the 90s, 00s and now in the 10s, and I'm not interested in ranking eras or crossing eras over. Who knows what would happen, really? The same thing will happen in 20 years anyway.

[Psileas]

I'm a couple of years older than T-Mac, and I've said this many times in the past. The one thing that I've feared is happening. That is my generation is turning into our father's generation. We're becoming the "old men", past our prime glorifying the "good old days" and how tough it used to be back in the day. I talked about this in my "Back in my Day' Phenomenon" thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290786). Wilt and Russell's generation spoke of how tough it was to play in the 60's and 70's and how soft the league had gotten by the late 80's and 90's. I just finished watching this interview between Bill Russell and Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/russell_duncan_pt1.html), and the issue of the difference between eras was brought up. At the 3:40 mark Bill Russell said,

"We [players of his era] almost threw up when they threw in flagrant fouls...That's why those guys wear those long shorts, cause they play like girls."

Flagrant fouls were introduced into the league during the 80's if I'm not mistaken. Long shorts were introduced into the NBA during the 90's. Actually MJ went to the long shorts style in 1989. (http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/shaun_powell/07/20/michael-jordan-long-shorts/index.html) So basically by the mid- late 90's according to Russell, MJ was playing in a league that played like girls.

I'm not implying that things may not have been more physical in the past. They probably were. I have been watching the NBA since 1987, but a lot of the stuff being spewed by older players who are on the verge of retirement or have retired are borderline nostalgic hyperbole, and in 20 years, Lebron, CP3, and Wade will be telling us how tough it was to play in the 2010's and how the players of the 2030's couldn't make it in their era.

Pretty much. The world changes, technology improves, the standards of life in developed countries increase and of course this includes organizations like the NBA. These increased standards of life lead older generations to the conclusion that younger ones have everything without even trying hard to acquire it. I agree that older generations per average DID have it harder, but this doesn't mean humans become more pussified. It's just our nature to seek the best, most comfortable way of living. Take whichever older generation and have it grown nowadays, I assure you it will become equally "pussified" and they will love it.
There was nothing magical about the 60's-70's-80's-90's NBA. It was just a league where players per average had less luxuries in their disposal. Switch the birth dates of NBA legends and TMac would also switch names in his claims.

BTW, does TMac also include himself in the "boys" category? Last time I checked, fans didn't always consider he filled many of the "manly" attributes he implies. But now that time has softened the passion of TMac haters, I'm sure I'll be seeing a lot more people calling him a "real man", a legend, etc. It's funny how many people I see nowadays that wish TMac gets a ring. When in/near his prime, people would typically call him a *****, a loser and few (usually his team's fans) would wish to see him a champion.

[Scholar]

The "back-in-my-day" train of thought.. Nice.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's not really nostalgia. Back in that ERA you were allowed to play physical. Whether basketball was better / more exciting is completely subjective.

[K Xerxes]

It's not really nostalgia. Back in that ERA you were allowed to play physical. Whether basketball was better / more exciting is completely subjective.

I believe that's the point. Is more physical basketball better basketball, especially with that era in relation to this?

I mean, I would say yes, but it's important to keep in mind that it's subjective.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

What TMac said is very on point and you can only understand it if you truly understand what it means to be a man. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread it also has a lot to do with society just becoming softer in general. Back then players werent coddled and treated like princesses as they made their path to the NBA. Unlike now, where pretty much everyone gets pampered on their way to the NBA and when they make it they are already spoiled primadonnas. The whole man thing has a lot to do with accountability, with respect, reputation, paying your dues. The current young adult generation has no idea what any of those things even mean. They throw little hissy fits, they act entitled etc... Why its like that? I dont know, times in general were just tougher then.

Like if a war broke out between the 80s early 90s nba and todays nba whos side would you want to be on? The ruthless stoic Karl Malones, vicious Jordans, unphaseable Stocktons, stone cold Oakleys, heartless Laimbeers, killer Birds? Or would you be on the side with the indecisive Dwight Howards, The scared Derrick Rose? Chocking LEbrons? Hissy fit Wades? Bird brain JR Smith? Mens bootyhole smelling Chris Bosh? The only killers left in todays game are Kobe, maybe even Tony Parker, other than that.. these dudes would shit their pants in a real war. Back then? It was full of ruthless killers, who are out for blood. Whole teams like the bad boy pistons or the Knicks were made of them and their game plan was to destroy.

Kids dont get shit like that nowadays.

[andgar923]

What people are forgetting is that some of the people that have said these things have played IN BOTH eras.

So it aint like Russell is talking about the 90s an era in which he never played in. These are players, coaches, executives etc.etc. that have played or taken part in both eras. In some cases some players played in the 80s, 90s and 00 eras.

Another reason why some consider today's era weaker is due to the rule changes and the overall mentality of flop filled players. Not that flopping never existed in the past, it just wasn't part of their 'instinct' to flop immediately. They seem to flop as natural as breathing or blinking. Today's players also feel more priviliged than players in the past, which only adds to their soft mentality. They feel the automatically 'deserve' shit. Players from the past didn't come into the league with that mentality. MJ talked about 'earning' repeatedly, the hype machine that he later created hadn't evolved yet. Its as if the players form the past were self made millionaires and today's players are their spoiled children with a sense of entitlement.

All of this adds up and creates an era of soft players with a weak mentality.

[andgar923]

What TMac said is very on point and you can only understand it if you truly understand what it means to be a man. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread it also has a lot to do with society just becoming softer in general. Back then players werent coddled and treated like princesses as they made their path to the NBA. Unlike now, where pretty much everyone gets pampered on their way to the NBA and when they make it they are already spoiled primadonnas. The whole man thing has a lot to do with accountability, with respect, reputation, paying your dues. The current young adult generation has no idea what any of those things even mean. They throw little hissy fits, they act entitled etc... Why its like that? I dont know, times in general were just tougher then.

Like if a war broke out between the 80s early 90s nba and todays nba whos side would you want to be on? The ruthless stoic Karl Malones, vicious Jordans, unphaseable Stocktons, stone cold Oakleys, heartless Laimbeers, killer Birds? Or would you be on the side with the indecisive Dwight Howards, The scared Derrick Rose? Chocking LEbrons? Hissy fit Wades? Bird brain JR Smith? Mens bootyhole smelling Chris Bosh? The only killers left in todays game are Kobe, maybe even Tony Parker, other than that.. these dudes would shit their pants in a real war. Back then? It was full of ruthless killers, who are out for blood. Whole teams like the bad boy pistons or the Knicks were made of them and their game plan was to destroy.

Kids dont get shit like that nowadays.

This

[andgar923]

For those that are saying we're being nostalgic

[Goldrush25]

Completely different league today. Rules changes are mostly to blame for that.

Does anyone think that they wouldn't still be clotheslining people if the rules allowed for it? The league created what they have today. The players have to play the game a certain way or suffer the consequences.

I happen to think the game today is faster paced and more exciting, and I first watched basketball in the mid-late 80s.

I do get tired of hearing the "back-in-my-day" talk. If we let them tell it, everything back then was better than everything right now, and I don't think that's ever the case. Certain things are better and certain things are worse.

[nightprowler10]

The fact is that NBA players, especially stars, are in general more pampered. It's a product of NBA being much bigger, depending much more on its superstars making it money through ratings, the media pouncing on every hard foul and creating drama, etc. There are a lot of reasons why the league is softer, and I don't think you can blame society directly. Well maybe indirectly, so if we weren't okay paying out the ass for everything NBA it wouldn't such a powerhouse and it wouldn't need to protect its image/superstars.

My two cents.

[Goldrush25]

The fact is that NBA players, especially stars, are in general more pampered. It's a product of NBA being much bigger, depending much more on its superstars making it money through ratings, the media pouncing on every hard foul and creating drama, etc. There are a lot of reasons why the league is softer, and I don't think you can blame society directly. Well maybe indirectly, so if we weren't okay paying out the ass for everything NBA it wouldn't such a powerhouse and it wouldn't need to protect its image/superstars.

My two cents.

MJ was as pampered as any star today, moreso even.

[nightprowler10]

MJ was as pampered as any star today, moreso even.
Oh absolutely, but I think most of that pampering happened later on in his career when the game was much more globalized. He is absolutely the biggest reason the league rules got softer.

This phenomenon isn't new or exclusive to basketball btw. Cricket has seen a lot of rule changes to help scoring and limit defensive play over the years, probably more so than any other sport.

[Orlando Magic]

lol @ these dumb bastards simply attributing it to nostalgia and nothing else. Hahaha, how ignorant are you? I mean, really?

There are many contributing factors as to why today's NBA is softer and less manly than the previous generations. Early 2000s is when the NBA really started to get "soft".

I'm 29 years old and have followed the NBA since 1992 at the age of 9. I only really understood what I was watching and how to read plays and understand exactly what players were doing on the court in order to help their team starting in the early 2000s... so there is no "nostalgia" for me to be a part of.

Here, I'll list SOME of the factors because I'm probably going to overlook a lot.

1) Lack of big men in today's league. In short? Michael Jordan coming into existence and bringing ungodly amounts of glamour and notoriety to perimeter scoring. People grew up wanting to be him and not wanting to be anything other than perimeter scorers. Why do you think a guy like Dwight Howard saw himself as a small forward / power forward coming into the league? Hahaha. He wanted the ball on the perimeter and to shoot jumpers. To this day the guy still has not dropped the being the primary scorer mentality which is a result of our culture and again, the glamour thrown onto scoring. If Dwight would shut up and focus on defense he could be an all time great WINNER which is all that truly matters. But he can't let the scoring go... and neither can a lot of fans. Because Dwight & the fans are both on average, stupid people.

2) Athletes getting paid ungodly amounts of money to play a game which as previous posters have mentioned, has brought about an INCREDIBLY strong sense of entitlement.

3) Athletes getting drafted straight out of high school and the overall age of the league dropping. These guys are just flat out immature. It's not their fault, exactly. Most people in life don't start to mature until they are out of the house living away from mommy and daddy and have to pay their own bills. Four years of college still isn't all the way there but it's a start, which has been ripped away compared to yesteryear's league.

4) The massive expansion of media(the internet) covering these guys from really young ages contributes to that sense of entitlement/destinty, just like the money does. This also contributes to a lack of maturity.

5) Rule changes to encourage perimeter scoring and take away from big guys dominating the paint on the offensive side and defensive side. It's all about escorting guys to the rim untouched so they can try to even sniff the popularity that Jordan brought to the league. Sorry though, hasn't happened NBA. Keep trying.

6) As a result of 5 with the refs getting tighter on perimeter players ability to draw fouls... has led to a significant increase in flopping and once again contributed to the overall bitch made and immature mentality of the entire league.

There have been many factors... some I'm probably overlooking... but the people that dismiss this topic as nostalgia have their heads so far up their own asses that it's simply... mind blowing. I have no better way to describe it.

[Living Being]

What TMac said is very on point and you can only understand it if you truly understand what it means to be a man. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread it also has a lot to do with society just becoming softer in general. Back then players werent coddled and treated like princesses as they made their path to the NBA. Unlike now, where pretty much everyone gets pampered on their way to the NBA and when they make it they are already spoiled primadonnas. The whole man thing has a lot to do with accountability, with respect, reputation, paying your dues. The current young adult generation has no idea what any of those things even mean. They throw little hissy fits, they act entitled etc... Why its like that? I dont know, times in general were just tougher then.

Like if a war broke out between the 80s early 90s nba and todays nba whos side would you want to be on? The ruthless stoic Karl Malones, vicious Jordans, unphaseable Stocktons, stone cold Oakleys, heartless Laimbeers, killer Birds? Or would you be on the side with the indecisive Dwight Howards, The scared Derrick Rose? Chocking LEbrons? Hissy fit Wades? Bird brain JR Smith? Mens bootyhole smelling Chris Bosh? The only killers left in todays game are Kobe, maybe even Tony Parker, other than that.. these dudes would shit their pants in a real war. Back then? It was full of ruthless killers, who are out for blood. Whole teams like the bad boy pistons or the Knicks were made of them and their game plan was to destroy.

Kids dont get shit like that nowadays.:cheers: :applause:
Thanks for making this forum not completely worthless.

[tmacattack33]

That's just anecdotal bullshit....


Average height and weight in 1990: 6'7 215 lbs

Average height and weight in 2008: 6'7 221 lbs


Average age in 1990: 26.8 years old

Average age in 2008: 26.9 years old

:confusedshrug:



* I listed 2008 and not 2013 because that's as far as the stats go in my link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing _experience

[andgar923]

That's just anecdotal bullshit....


Average height and weight in 1990: 6'7 215 lbs

Average height and weight in 2008: 6'7 221 lbs


Average age in 1990: 26.8 years old

Average age in 2008: 26.9 years old

:confusedshrug:



* I listed 2008 and not 2013 because that's as far as the stats go in my link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing _experience:facepalm

[Orlando Magic]

That's just anecdotal bullshit....


Average height and weight in 1990: 6'7 215 lbs

Average height and weight in 2008: 6'7 221 lbs


Average age in 1990: 26.8 years old

Average age in 2008: 26.9 years old

:confusedshrug:



* I listed 2008 and not 2013 because that's as far as the stats go in my link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing _experience

More players get to stay in the league longer due to expansion of teams. Only rational explanation.

If you honestly believe that today's players are as tough or as mature as the players from yesterday, lol.

[Orlando Magic]

By the way, the statistic I am most notably interested in would be... average age of NBA rookies.

[Ne 1]

I wish people would actually watch games from their "golden era" and realize how common 70+ FTA games were, how so many flagrant fouls were "soft" in the '90s due to the bad boys era, and realize how many touch fouls were called amongst other things. The most physical era in the NBA was actually the '70s. And rules eliminated REAL, physical hand-checking in '79:

1978-79:
[QUOTE]Clarification added to prohibit hand-checking through

[diamenz]

lol @ these dumb bastards simply attributing it to nostalgia and nothing else. Hahaha, how ignorant are you? I mean, really?

There are many contributing factors as to why today's NBA is softer and less manly than the previous generations. Early 2000s is when the NBA really started to get "soft".

I'm 29 years old and have followed the NBA since 1992 at the age of 9. I only really understood what I was watching and how to read plays and understand exactly what players were doing on the court in order to help their team starting in the early 2000s... so there is no "nostalgia" for me to be a part of.

Here, I'll list SOME of the factors because I'm probably going to overlook a lot.

1) Lack of big men in today's league. In short? Michael Jordan coming into existence and bringing ungodly amounts of glamour and notoriety to perimeter scoring. People grew up wanting to be him and not wanting to be anything other than perimeter scorers. Why do you think a guy like Dwight Howard saw himself as a small forward / power forward coming into the league? Hahaha. He wanted the ball on the perimeter and to shoot jumpers. To this day the guy still has not dropped the being the primary scorer mentality which is a result of our culture and again, the glamour thrown onto scoring. If Dwight would shut up and focus on defense he could be an all time great WINNER which is all that truly matters. But he can't let the scoring go... and neither can a lot of fans. Because Dwight & the fans are both on average, stupid people.

2) Athletes getting paid ungodly amounts of money to play a game which as previous posters have mentioned, has brought about an INCREDIBLY strong sense of entitlement.

3) Athletes getting drafted straight out of high school and the overall age of the league dropping. These guys are just flat out immature. It's not their fault, exactly. Most people in life don't start to mature until they are out of the house living away from mommy and daddy and have to pay their own bills. Four years of college still isn't all the way there but it's a start, which has been ripped away compared to yesteryear's league.

4) The massive expansion of media(the internet) covering these guys from really young ages contributes to that sense of entitlement/destinty, just like the money does. This also contributes to a lack of maturity.

5) Rule changes to encourage perimeter scoring and take away from big guys dominating the paint on the offensive side and defensive side. It's all about escorting guys to the rim untouched so they can try to even sniff the popularity that Jordan brought to the league. Sorry though, hasn't happened NBA. Keep trying.

6) As a result of 5 with the refs getting tighter on perimeter players ability to draw fouls... has led to a significant increase in flopping and once again contributed to the overall bitch made and immature mentality of the entire league.

There have been many factors... some I'm probably overlooking... but the people that dismiss this topic as nostalgia have their heads so far up their own asses that it's simply... mind blowing. I have no better way to describe it.

great post - would rep.

[BoutPractice]

TMac giving a lecture on toughness. I've seen everything.

[Poetry]

Meh, forget it.

[hitmanyr2k]

lol @ these dumb bastards simply attributing it to nostalgia and nothing else. Hahaha, how ignorant are you? I mean, really?

There are many contributing factors as to why today's NBA is softer and less manly than the previous generations. Early 2000s is when the NBA really started to get "soft".

I'm 29 years old and have followed the NBA since 1992 at the age of 9. I only really understood what I was watching and how to read plays and understand exactly what players were doing on the court in order to help their team starting in the early 2000s... so there is no "nostalgia" for me to be a part of.

Here, I'll list SOME of the factors because I'm probably going to overlook a lot.

1) Lack of big men in today's league. In short? Michael Jordan coming into existence and bringing ungodly amounts of glamour and notoriety to perimeter scoring. People grew up wanting to be him and not wanting to be anything other than perimeter scorers. Why do you think a guy like Dwight Howard saw himself as a small forward / power forward coming into the league? Hahaha. He wanted the ball on the perimeter and to shoot jumpers. To this day the guy still has not dropped the being the primary scorer mentality which is a result of our culture and again, the glamour thrown onto scoring. If Dwight would shut up and focus on defense he could be an all time great WINNER which is all that truly matters. But he can't let the scoring go... and neither can a lot of fans. Because Dwight & the fans are both on average, stupid people.

2) Athletes getting paid ungodly amounts of money to play a game which as previous posters have mentioned, has brought about an INCREDIBLY strong sense of entitlement.

3) Athletes getting drafted straight out of high school and the overall age of the league dropping. These guys are just flat out immature. It's not their fault, exactly. Most people in life don't start to mature until they are out of the house living away from mommy and daddy and have to pay their own bills. Four years of college still isn't all the way there but it's a start, which has been ripped away compared to yesteryear's league.

4) The massive expansion of media(the internet) covering these guys from really young ages contributes to that sense of entitlement/destinty, just like the money does. This also contributes to a lack of maturity.

5) Rule changes to encourage perimeter scoring and take away from big guys dominating the paint on the offensive side and defensive side. It's all about escorting guys to the rim untouched so they can try to even sniff the popularity that Jordan brought to the league. Sorry though, hasn't happened NBA. Keep trying.

6) As a result of 5 with the refs getting tighter on perimeter players ability to draw fouls... has led to a significant increase in flopping and once again contributed to the overall bitch made and immature mentality of the entire league.

There have been many factors... some I'm probably overlooking... but the people that dismiss this topic as nostalgia have their heads so far up their own asses that it's simply... mind blowing. I have no better way to describe it.

Can't say it any better than this....especially the bolded parts.

[tpols]

It's not really nostalgia. Back in that ERA you were allowed to play physical. Whether basketball was better / more exciting is completely subjective.
It all goes along with the political correctness movement.. You can't just say anything nowadays have to be squeaky clean as not to offend. Can't have a league of thuggery because it offends and perpetuates stereotypes.

That being said there is a nostalgia effect going on at the same time.. I've watched a couple hours worth of baylor/wilt/west highlights and I just don't see crazy physicality. Guys weren't getting hit at all and contact didn't seem that crazy. The 80s era they call soft features some of the best fight footage I've ever seen.. Maybe it's because they're wasn't as much clip captured back in the 60s?? Idk

[JellyBean]

[QUOTE=andgar923]For what it

[miller-time]

MJ was as pampered as any star today, moreso even.

Yeah but Jordan was an anomaly. First he was the first player to be promoted and paid like he was, and second he had a competitive drive that was probably bordering on a mental health problem. I don't think it would matter how pampered Jordan was, he would still play as hard as he did.

[bluechox2]

tmac came to the league as a child, paved the way, hypocrite

[jstern]

Softer rules.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So we're listening to a guy who's never scored a point in the 2nd/3rd/finals round and only made it out of the 1st round this year as a bench-warmer and actually got to play in a blowout game and STILL couldn't score?:confusedshrug:

[mugiwara]

perspective shift/

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Yeah ok, I'm going to take the word of a dress wearing, suicidal psychotic drug addict and a washed up never-won-a-playoff-series in his career player?


LeBron is top 3 all time GOAT already if the Heat win this finals.

[poido123]

MJ was as pampered as any star today, moreso even.

Did Jordan really need it? No. Jordan was tough as nails and earnt every foul call that he got, as Im sure there were a few he didnt get too.

To say he is more pampered than the players today is absolutely ridiculous. You do realise this is the flopping era?

Techs and foul calls have changed considerably since the 80's/90's. Jordan got layed out and beaten up but he was tough.

[Doranku]

Did Jordan really need it? No. Jordan was tough as nails and earnt every foul call that he got, as Im sure there were a few he didnt get too.

To say he is more pampered than the players today is absolutely ridiculous. You do realise this is the flopping era?

Techs and foul calls have changed considerably since the 80's/90's. Jordan got layed out and beaten up but he was tough.
Incredible. :oldlol:

[Deltron3030]

Players today are investments. They are all multi-millionaiares. Sports in general is going to continue protecting these players with rules/fines/penalties etc. It's not really a boy vs man thing than it is the league protecting the players who is making them a sh!t load of money. I can only imagine how the rules will be different in another 10 years. You won't be able to breathe on a player. I wouldn't be surprised in 20 years if they made man defense illegal and you had to play a soft zone.

[Nebraskanball]

What TMac said is very on point and you can only understand it if you truly understand what it means to be a man. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread it also has a lot to do with society just becoming softer in general. Back then players werent coddled and treated like princesses as they made their path to the NBA. Unlike now, where pretty much everyone gets pampered on their way to the NBA and when they make it they are already spoiled primadonnas. The whole man thing has a lot to do with accountability, with respect, reputation, paying your dues. The current young adult generation has no idea what any of those things even mean. They throw little hissy fits, they act entitled etc... Why its like that? I dont know, times in general were just tougher then.

Like if a war broke out between the 80s early 90s nba and todays nba whos side would you want to be on? The ruthless stoic Karl Malones, vicious Jordans, unphaseable Stocktons, stone cold Oakleys, heartless Laimbeers, killer Birds? Or would you be on the side with the indecisive Dwight Howards, The scared Derrick Rose? Chocking LEbrons? Hissy fit Wades? Bird brain JR Smith? Mens bootyhole smelling Chris Bosh? The only killers left in todays game are Kobe, maybe even Tony Parker, other than that.. these dudes would shit their pants in a real war. Back then? It was full of ruthless killers, who are out for blood. Whole teams like the bad boy pistons or the Knicks were made of them and their game plan was to destroy.

Kids dont get shit like that nowadays.
Ok. Please explain what it means to be a man then. You know, since none of us have any idea.
Tyson Chandler would have been considered an all-time great/physical player if he played during Russell's era.
Ron Artest would f*ck anyone from that era up. Bad. (Maybe not Wilt)
Kobe would embarrass every single player in Russell's era.
Hell, if CP3 played back then, he would be considered the best PG of all time.

You can't cherry pick the toughest guys from one era and compare them to some of the softest from this era. That's how a child argues. Oh yeah, but you're a "man?"

Stupid shit.

[get these NETS]

tmac is talking out of his ass

lebron has gotten knocked around


kenyon martin pushed tmac around in nets/magic game and he didn't do shitt


league still has goons who will knock stars on their butts

[boozehound]

yawn. go back to china tmac

[get these NETS]

could be worse

at least he didn't say that "we're in the driver's seat"

[AlphaWolf24]

Did Jordan really need it? No. Jordan was tough as nails and earnt every foul call that he got, as Im sure there were a few he didnt get too.

To say he is more pampered than the players today is absolutely ridiculous. You do realise this is the flopping era?

Techs and foul calls have changed considerably since the 80's/90's. Jordan got layed out and beaten up but he was tough.


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr275/CrestOfLove/mj-laughing.gif




was MJ tough?....absolutley.......did you get a foul if you looked at him wrong?.....best believe it.