ESPN ranks the greatest individual playoff runs

[Leftimage]

Pretty thorough examination, see the full article here here. (http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9357345/greatest-individual-postseasons-1-5)

Author's top 5

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1011/grantland_g_jordan_gb1_576.jpg

1. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1991

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0531/nba_2lebron_576.jpg

2. LeBron James, Heat, 2012

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0609/nba_g_duncan01jr_576.jpg

3. Tim Duncan, Spurs, 2003

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0606/nba_a_shaqts_576.jpg

4. Shaquille O'Neal, Lakers, 2000

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0531/nba_5jordan_576.jpg

5. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1993

EDIT they also included #6 in the ''free'' portion of the article (ESPN insider)

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0531/nba_6oneal_576.jpg

6. Shaquille O'Neal, Lakers, 2001


Discuss.

[NumberSix]

Not bad.

[dh144498]

lebron number 2. :roll: :lol :oldlol:

[LongLiveTheKing]

Good list.

[StocktonFan]

wtf


Shaq is completely underrated here... he should be 1.

If we're talking dominance, didnt shaq led lakers only lose 1 game the entire playoffs?

While lebron went to game 7 with atlanta i believe?

[NumberSix]

wtf


Shaq is completely underrated here... he should be 1.
Weak finals matchup though.

[StocktonFan]

Weak finals matchup though.

so what, conference and semi's were 10x tougher anything the east had to offer and shaq in the finals averaged what 38 and 16 something ridiculous?

[Nick Young]

Lebron #2?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


No Dirk?

Shaq below lebron?:roll: :roll: :roll:


ESPN trying to rewrite history. Retarded fans will have a completely unrealistic view of the NBA. They are trying to write out MDE shaq! Tim Duncan even ahead of him? WTF:facepalm

And Lebron #2? DOESN'T EVEN BELONG TOP 5! WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT!

[shortsoptional]

Dirk 2011 > LeBron 2012

[dh144498]

Weak finals matchup though.

Weak finals matchup?

a series that went 6 games is weaker than a series that went 5?

:lol
:oldlol:
:roll:

[Leftimage]

wtf


Shaq is completely underrated here... he should be 1.

If we're talking dominance, didnt shaq led lakers only lose 1 game the entire playoffs?

While lebron went to game 7 with atlanta i believe?

He should definitely be above Duncan, but otherwise it appears the author has docked him for lower TS% and usage rate. His points are articulated rather simply, but the fact he looks at TS and usage tells me he's a bit of a stats dork who knows his shit.

[Trollsmasher]

The author speaks the truth:applause:

[DMV2]

Shaq's 2000 run should be #2.

[BlazerRed]

Dirk 2011 > LeBron 2012
This. Dirk was incredible. So underrated that run.

[Nick Young]

The author speaks the truth:applause:
Lebron 2011 playoff run is nowhere near one of the top playoff run of all time.

That writeup about it is pure spin doctoring.

Why is Dirk not mentioned and that halfassed run is?:facepalm

[dh144498]

Bird in 84 and 86 is better than Lebron 2012.
Magic in 87 and 88 is better as well.

[shortsoptional]

I can't wait for ESPN to do another "Who's Now" :banana:

[StocktonFan]

Shaq entire 1999-2000 playoff average:

31ppg, 15rpg, 3ast 2blks

Opponents
Round1: Kings record: 49-33 went to game 5 - ranked 1 at ppg that year
Round2: Phoenix record: 56-26 went to 5 games ranked 3rd at defensive rating that year
Round3: Portland record: 59-23 went to game 7 ranked offensive and defensive both top 5 in rating that year

Finals: Indiana record: 54-28 and ranked first in offensive rating that year, went to game 6

Shaq's finals average: 38/17/2/3

Name one other player the last 3 decades to put up similar numbers

[PickernRoller]

Kevin who?

At least he got the page hits he wanted. That's all he gets paid on - page hits. Commendable...the comment section is lively - did his job. Enjoy the dough...

[livinglegend]

Great list :applause: :applause:

Kobetards getting mad also :applause: :roll:

[Magic 32]

The author speaks the truth:applause:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me9hixlv2l1qz8x31o1_500.gif

[LongLiveTheKing]

Dirk 2011 > LeBron 2012
Lebron's run was better.

[Magic 32]

Great list :applause: :applause:

Kobetards getting mad also :applause: :roll:

Fans of any of the top 10 players of all time should be offended by this travesty.

[lebron06]

Lol haters panicking over a list.. Calm down

[PickernRoller]

Fans of any of the top 10 players of all time should be offended by this travesty.

Indeed.

The list keeps on builing Magic...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1663779-julius-erving-picks-spurs-over-heat-in-finals-says-hed-take-kobe-over-lebron

How many more do we need...? Or was the discussion dead long ago.....my opinion anyways.

------------------------------------------------------------------
On Topic - Shaq should be # 3. Needless to say - laughable #2 pick.

[tazb]

Good list. Surprised another superstar isn't on this list. I wonder why.:roll:

[LongLiveTheKing]

Lebron had better stats than Dirk, and what is the most points Dirk scored in his run?

[shortsoptional]

Lebron had better stats than Dirk, and what is the most points Dirk scored in his run?


I guess stats tell the whole story.

LeBron's stats kill Dirk...

I still think Dirk's overall individual performance was more impressive.

[Magic 32]

Good list. Surprised another superstar isn't on this list. I wonder why.:roll:

Kobe is on the list.....many times.

[K Xerxes]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Hakeem's 1995 run... now that was extraordinary.

LeBron's should not be two, definitely.

[Magic 32]

Anyway. Does anyone have ESPN insider.

[cos88]

where the **** is kobe run in 2004.


:facepalm fantastic finals performance too :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm #faillist

[shortsoptional]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Hakeem's 1995 run... now that was extraordinary.

LeBron's should not be two, definitely.


The fact that it isn't top 5 says all you need to know about the list.

[Trollsmasher]

where the **** is kobe run in 2004.


:facepalm fantastic finals performance too :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm #faillist
This. Kobe's best and most spirited performance and they don't even include it...:facepalm

[Flash31]

This. Dirk was incredible. So underrated that run.

This. Dirk was incredible. So underrated that run.


dIRK WAS GOOD but LeBrons run was better
though on the Other hand LeBrons playoff run in 2012
should no way be num 2 or even top 5 at all

Wades playoff run in the 06 Playoffs was better,Wilt Chamberlains games,Shaqs playoff runs,Larry Bird,Magic Johnson,Isiah Thomas,Bill Russells,Kareem

Though I guess ESPN goes as far back as the 90s,and the 90s is ONLY Jordan to them

lEbRON NUM 2 SERIOUSLY WTF,AND IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM SHOULD dIRK BE IN THE TOP 5,
He shot Horribly in the Finals,DWYANE WADE Outplayed Dirk in those Finals
Its just that LeBron Mo Williamsed those finals and the Mavs won.


Dirks run is extremely overhyped and overrated,the ONLY,ONLY REASON
its seen as this great run is because his TEAM beat the HEAT,AND LEBRON LOST
and had A HORRIBLE Finals.

[Heavincent]

ESPN obviously has an agenda.

[LongLiveTheKing]

I guess stats tell the whole story.

LeBron's stats kill Dirk...

I still think Dirk's overall individual performance was more impressive.
Lebron had games of 40-18-9 and 45-5-5. That's some pretty good individual performancs.

[KyrieTheFuture]

LeBron's performance was absolutely amazing and absolutely did NOT deserve to be number 2 on this list.

[Magic 32]

This. Kobe's best and most spirited performance and they don't even include it...:facepalm

I would like to see Lebron play under those circumstances.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/incoming/2011/12/23/jail-prison-cell-light-xgold/ALTERNATES/crop_630x400/jail+prison+cell+light+xgold

[Leftimage]

Anyway. Does anyone have ESPN insider.

+1. I posted the thread in the hopes someone would chime in with full article.

[Blue&Orange]

Lebron most overrated player in sports history thanks to ESPN

Heat 2012 n

[dh144498]

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]Lebron most overrated player in sports history thanks to ESPN

Heat 2012 n

[Deuce Bigalow]

MJ 91, 92, 93
Shaq 00, 01
Magic 87
Wilt 67
Russell 62, 65
Hakeem 94, 95
Kareem 80
Bird 84, 86
Duncan 03
MJ 96, 97, 98
Shaq 02
Dirk 11
Kobe 09
Wade 06
Lebron 12*
Barry 75
Duncan 99*

[DirkNowitzki41]

Lebron's run was better.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

nope

[NBASTATMAN]

garbage list

where is hakeem, how the hell is bron at two

[KG215]

Wait, that's just a list for the best playoff runs since 1990, right? Granted almost any iteration of first 3-peat Jordan and 3-peat Shaq could and would be in the top 5 if it is a true "all-time" list; but 2012 LeBron at #2? No Hakeem? That just doesn't seem or feel right.

[Uncle Drew]

Wait, that's just a list for the best playoff runs since 1990, right? Granted almost any iteration of first 3-peat Jordan and 3-peat Shaq could and would be in the top 5 if it is a true "all-time" list; but 2012 LeBron at #2? No Hakeem? That just doesn't seem or feel right.
Which is what brings us here. Using my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric, we've ranked the best overall postseason performances dating back to 1978, the first year the NBA tracked a full box score including player turnovers.

[LongLiveTheKing]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

nope
Yes it was he averaged 30-10-6 compared to 28-8-3. And Lebron had great individual games such as his 40-18-9 and 45-5-5.
Lebron scored 697 points Dir scored 582.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes it was he averaged 30-10-6 compared to 28-8-3. And Lebron had great individual games such as his 40-18-9 and 45-5-5.
Lebron scored 697 points Dir scored 582.
Lebron's was in a lockout season. Dirk's was legendary.

[KG215]

Which is what brings us here. Using my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric, we've ranked the best overall postseason performances dating back to 1978, the first year the NBA tracked a full box score including player turnovers.
Sorry, I didn't see the link to the article in the OP.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Lebron's was in a lockout season. Dirk's was legendary.
Obvious troll is obvious.

[cos88]

I would like to see Lebron play under those circumstances.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/incoming/2011/12/23/jail-prison-cell-light-xgold/ALTERNATES/crop_630x400/jail+prison+cell+light+xgold


i know a guy who was so close of playing in jail for some kind of rape. :hammerhead: stupid me can't remember his name.


this days he has 10 idiots here that lick his dikc 25 times a day.

[Blue&Orange]

Knicks without half roster
Pacers worse team than this year
Celtics old and Done

OKC youngest and most inexperience team in the finals.


= 2nd best playoffs run

:lol


Question? How many of this low IQ ESPN writers spend their time on this forum, making thread about how great LEbron and the Heat are?


:lol

[dh144498]

Obvious troll is obvious.

dirk's was legendary in an all time scale.
lebron's was just great in that it saved his legacy.

so Dirk's was more impressive. History will remember it as the finals that Dirk destroyed the Heat's big 3. Dirk led the huge underdog Mavs to a 4-2 victory.

[R.I.P.]

Dirk

[shortsoptional]

Lebron had games of 40-18-9 and 45-5-5. That's some pretty good individual performancs.

Right and i think Dirk had something like a 48 point game on 12-15 shooting once... and another 40 point game in a huge comeback... so yea... we can go back and forth with stats all day

Circumstances and talent around Dirk is why i say his run was better.

[R.I.P.]

dirk's was legendary in an all time scale.
lebron's was just great in that it saved his legacy.

so Dirk's was more impressive. History will remember it as the finals that Dirk destroyed the Heat's big 3. Dirk led the huge underdog Mavs to a 4-2 victory.

...and Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka, and swept the defending champions Kobe/Gasol/Bynum with P. Jackson.

[2010splash]

Absolutely perfect list. Nothing wrong with it.

*waits for some bozo to say that Hakeem, Bird, Magic, or Russell had a playoff run worthy of being #2*

[KG215]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Dirk

[KG215]

Absolutely perfect list. Nothing wrong with it.

*waits for some bozo to say that Hakeem, Bird, Magic, or Russell had a playoff run worthy of being #2*
What's funny/annoying is that you think LeBron is already clearly better and more accomplished than all of those guys. I know you're trolling, and I know you're someone's alt account, I'm just having trouble pegging whose right now.

[Flash31]

Right and i think Dirk had something like a 48 point game on 12-15 shooting once... and another 40 point game in a huge comeback... so yea... we can go back and forth with stats all day

Circumstances and talent around Dirk is why i say his run was better.

Right and i think Dirk had something like a 48 point game on 12-15 shooting once... and another 40 point game in a huge comeback... so yea... we can go back and forth with stats all day

Circumstances and talent around Dirk is why i say his run was better.


yep 24-24 FT MADE

Him and Durant MADE HISTOY

AVG 40-50 FTA Between the Two of them that series

There were games of 60-80 fta.

It was CALLED the FREE THROW SERIES

Dirk AVG 20 FTA that Series.

[DFish24]

Terrible list. Lebron shouldn't touch the Top 10.

[Le Shaqtus]

I don't care where they put it but Dirks needs to be up there. His Championship run was one for the ages. LeBron's should be up up there.. But it shouldn't be #2, thats a little nuts.

[Donkey4trading]

Not bad. Although the EPSN falls to their Jordan biase once again..:facepalm

Lebrons run to me was more impressive, Lebron led his team in every major statistical category & was facing more adversity than any other player on that list during his 2012 run. Also, its the first championship for the eventual greatest of all time.

[b4uc.23]

Where's Kobe?


oh wait..














http://www.shoot-hoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Shaq-carries-Kobe.jpg

:lol

[Ne 1]

Hakeem's 1995 run in route to a championship is more impressive to me than any other individual run in history to me actually. The '95 Rockets were actually weaker than the '94 team and at the same time they faced stiffer competition (60 win teams starting in the first round), even though he had a better "#2 option", the overall team was weaker. 33/10/5 averages throughout the playoffs.

35/9/4 vs Jazz, 30/9/4 vs Suns, 35/13/5 vs Spurs, 33/12/6 vs Magic.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Lebron's run was better and him a Dirk got equal help.

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ with two top five performances.

:pimp:

[Nick Young]

Lebron's run was better and him a Dirk got equal help.
http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

[shortsoptional]

Lebron's run was better and him a Dirk got equal help.

If you say so, then I guess that means it's true.

[LongLiveTheKing]

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg
That doesn't have to do with anything? :confusedshrug:



If you say so, then I guess that means it's true.
Kidd, Terry, and Chandler helped Dirk out a lot without Chandler defending the paint the Mavericks wouldn't have won. Lebron got different help every games in the finals.

[K Xerxes]

Hakeem's 1995 run in route to a championship is more impressive to me than any other individual run in history to me actually. The '95 Rockets were actually weaker than the '94 team and at the same time they faced stiffer competition (60 win teams starting in the first round), even though he had a better "#2 option", the overall team was weaker. 33/10/5 averages throughout the playoffs.

35/9/4 vs Jazz, 30/9/4 vs Suns, 35/13/5 vs Spurs, 33/12/6 vs Magic.

I agree with this. He put up arguably the greatest series performance ever in the WCF where he tore 'MVP' David Robinson a new asshole. Robinson was completely dominated...

Finals against Shaq too. I would put his playoff run at 1 (from the ones I've seen, definitely top 3 at least, and without a shadow of a doubt better than LeBron's.

[KG215]

In some order, my top 3 would be '91 Jordan, '00 Shaq, and probably '95 Hakeem. I don't know enough about some of Bird and Magic's playoff runs in the 80's, but I'm sure they've each got at least one on par with LeBron's in 2012.

[Ne 1]

Where's Kobe?


I'd put his 2009 run right up there. 30ppg in route to a championship. Only 5 other players have ever done that. (Kareem, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, LeBron)



http://www.shoot-hoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Shaq-carries-Kobe.jpg



:confusedshrug:

http://oi43.tinypic.com/65u4n5.jpg

[chosen_wun]

Lebron #2?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


No Dirk?

Shaq below lebron?:roll: :roll: :roll:


ESPN trying to rewrite history. Retarded fans will have a completely unrealistic view of the NBA. They are trying to write out MDE shaq! Tim Duncan even ahead of him? WTF:facepalm

And Lebron #2? DOESN'T EVEN BELONG TOP 5! WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT!
Oohhhhhh ....now yall recognize Shaq as MDE ? :applause:

[Skip Bayless]

LeBron at 2#:facepalm

Shameful list by ESPN.

[StocktonFan]

Oohhhhhh ....now yall recognize Shaq as MDE ? :applause:

Find ONE post that says kobe was more dominant than shaq

[Nick Young]

Oohhhhhh ....now yall recognize Shaq as MDE ? :applause:
i always did and always have. I started watching basketball two years before Shaq got to LA and Shaq shitting on triple teams on a regular basis is my biggest basketball memory, other then Mambas gamewinner vs the heat which is the only game at Staples Ive been to

[chosen_wun]

Find ONE post that says kobe was more dominant than shaq
I wasn't implying that...you just hardly ever hear Kobe fans praise Shaq, this is the FIRST TIME EVER i've seen a Kobetard refer to Shaq as MDE.

EDIT: I can't find Kobe on ESPN's list, did the OP leave him off by accident ?

[chosen_wun]

i always did and always have. I started watching basketball two years before Shaq got to LA and Shaq shitting on triple teams on a regular basis is my biggest basketball memory, other then Mambas gamewinner vs the heat which is the only game at Staples Ive been to
Oh well then I commend you on that, my regards.:cheers:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Where's Kobe?


oh wait..














http://www.shoot-hoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Shaq-carries-Kobe.jpg

:lol
2009: 30-5-6 46fg/56ts/49efg
32-6-7 43fg - Finals
34-6-6 48fg/64ts - WCF

http://blog.syracuse.com/today/2009/06/large_APTOPIX_NBA_Finals_Lakers_M.JPG

2010: 29-6-6 46fg/57ts/50efg
29-8-4 41fg - Finals
34-7-8 52fg/64ts - WCF
32-4-6 52fg - WCSF

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/punkboi/main_2010_lakerschamps02.jpg

[R.I.P.]

2009: 30-5-6 46fg/56ts/49efg
32-6-7 43fg - Finals
34-6-6 48fg/64ts - WCF

http://blog.syracuse.com/today/2009/06/large_APTOPIX_NBA_Finals_Lakers_M.JPG

2010: 29-6-6 46fg/57ts/50efg
29-8-4 41fg - Finals
34-7-8 52fg/64ts - WCF
32-4-6 52fg - WCSF

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/punkboi/main_2010_lakerschamps02.jpg

:no:

According to that ESPN list 2010 was Gasol

[2010splash]

What's funny/annoying is that you think LeBron is already clearly better and more accomplished than all of those guys. I know you're trolling, and I know you're someone's alt account, I'm just having trouble pegging whose right now.
Not more accomplished, though that's only because he was playing on a terrible team for 7 years while these other guys had stacked teams for basically their entire career. But he is better, yes, as in a better player individually with a greater impact on the game.

And I just saw your list. '00 Shaq and '95 Hakeem over '12 LeBron?:roll: :roll:

LeBron is at worst #2 on this list. Some of you need to be checked for amnesia or something. 2012 was legendary. The entire run itself from the first round to the Finals was pure dominance, but Game 6 2012 ECF alone puts LeBron at #2 at least.

[Deuce Bigalow]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]:no:

According to that ESPN list 2010 was Gasol

[R.I.P.]

Can you post this joke of a list?

I only saw some pieces. I don

[Doranku]

Why is anyone surprised by this list?

ESPN's agenda should be pretty obvious by now.

[oh the horror]

Anyone shocked by this? ESPN is the Fox News of the sports world. I don't support anything they do anymore. It's BS.

[HurricaneKid]

I want to lick all the tears.

Sorry Stans. The mathematics are in. LeBron is <3

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Did they really put Gasol in for 2010 :roll:

[shortsoptional]

Did they really put Gasol in for 2010 :roll:

yea.. actually heard that they ranked Gasol 2010 at #40 and Dirk 2011 at #50

[oh the horror]

I want to lick all the tears.

Sorry Stans. The mathematics are in. LeBron is <3


The funny thing is. No one is crying and no one is mad.


As basketball fans unless you've only watched the NBA for 5 years then this "all time" list is a joke. Espn IS under a particular payroll and they DO have an agenda.

You don't think these corporations have cash sponsors and such to look out for?


Matematics. Right. Cash money math. This list is ridiculous.


It's the same stuff when Maxim releases their "hottest women" lists and it's some broad that has a great PR team and trying to gain

[DirkNowitzki41]

yea.. actually heard that they ranked Gasol 2010 at #40 and Dirk 2011 at #50

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma5lqmICnz1rtzle6o1_500.gif

[KG215]

It should be noted this isn't the writer's opinion. The entire list is WARP (wins above replacement player) based. Reading through his Twitter timeline, he apparently has some version of Scottie Pippen ahead of Hakeem, too. So, that, along with 2010 Gasol being higher than 2011 Dirk should be enough to tell you that this should be taken with a grain of salt when pounding your chest about your favorite player being ranked at a particular spot. I thought LeBron's 2012 run was incredible, and I'm not trying to purposefully belittle it, but I just don't feel like it was truly the second greatest playoff run ever.

[hitmanyr2k]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]I only saw some pieces. I don

[Mr. Jabbar]

Lebron run was a joke, you gotta be kidding me, put dan crawford there, he had a better run than lebron that year

[Dbrog]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

WTF IS THIS?!

:roll: :roll: :roll:
:banghead: :hammerhead: :facepalm

[KG215]

If it were based on stats alone then Olajuwon's run in '95 should be Top 3 at the very least and if it includes level of opposition he should be #1. The '95 Rockets didn't face one shit team the entire playoffs. They went through THREE 60 win teams (and a 59 win team :oldlol: ) without HCA and Olajuwon dominated throughout that run on both ends.
Yeah, it wasn't based on stats alone which would explain some of the rankings ('11 Dirk being ranked below '10 Gasol; '95 Hakeem being ranked below some version of Pippen). It was based on WARP and only WARP.

[G-Funk]

Lebrons shouldn't even be top 10, Bspn be overhyping dafuq out this dude Rolol at that run in the weakest comnference of all time!

[Mr. Jabbar]

the ESPN hype machine is a humongous joke :facepalm . Good thing I prefer this site than ESPN or NBA.com for basketball information

[Jacks3]

Pau in the top 50.

Pau above Dirk.

Kobe 2001 at 31.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Statistically, Bron's 2009 run was on some Oscar Robertson / Jordan type ish.


Yeah, it wasn't based on stats alone which would explain some of the rankings ('11 Dirk being ranked below '10 Gasol; '95 Hakeem being ranked below some version of Pippen). It was based on WARP and only WARP.

What the ****?

[Frozen1]

We are witnessing one of the gratest media manipulations of all time.

If it wasn't for Wade and Bosh lebron would be a ringless joke.

Too bad they decided to abandon their careers and being called scrubs just to win rings for Lebron.

[Duncan21formvp]

Duncan and Shaq should be 2 and 3. How is Lebron's #2 when he had to go the distance against a team that didn't even win 50 games when you prorate the series and was down in the series and also had two top 5 players in the league out for the entire playoffs including the guy who was on the #1 seeded team in Rose.

[Xsatyr]

I can't take this list srsly with Hakeem not being in the top five and Lebron at two.

[KG215]

Statistically, Bron's 2009 run was on some Oscar Robertson / Jordan type ish.



What the ****?
Wins Above Replacement Player. I've never seen it used for basketball, but it's a very popular advanced stat in baseball. I don't know Pelton's formula for WARP, either.

But it basically means a league average player is 0.00, so a player with 5.00 WARP add 5 wins to a team if he took the place of a Replacement Player on some team and took all of his minutes. The actual formula and explanation is a lot more complex, and it's way over my head, but here's a link where Pelton (the guy who did this list) explains it all if you want to read it.

http://www.sonicscentral.com/warp.html


So, this wasn't an opinion-based ranking, or a list put together by a panel of experts or whatever voting on each player. It was a list compiled by one guy based on his WARP formula.

SO the people that are pissed off about where a particular player is ranked, take it up with the WARP formula, because that's how Pelton ranked the players. Jordan had the highest WARP in the playoffs, LeBron 2nd highest, Shaq 3rd, etc.

I still have no f**king clue how that formula came to the conclusion Pau Gasol had a higher WARP than '11 Dirk, or how any version of Pippen had a higher WARP than '95 Hakeem, though.

[plowking]

Some of the people ridiculing Lebron's spot on the list and placing other runs above it haven't even seen the other runs they are putting above Lebron, and in some cases probably weren't even born yet...
Its funny how fickle people are.

I'm not saying Lebron's is top 2, but it certainly is top 10.

[2010splash]

Duncan and Shaq should be 2 and 3. How is Lebron's #2 when he had to go the distance against a team that didn't even win 50 games when you prorate the series and was down in the series and also had two top 5 players in the league out for the entire playoffs including the guy who was on the #1 seeded team in Rose.
LeBron is easily 2. He averaged 30/10/6 with a 30.3 PER and elite defense. Duncan never approached a 30 PER and Shaq's competition was a joke as well, except he was playing with Kobe. Plus the dude barely even got past the Blazers in 7 games. LeBron played with an injured Wade and Bosh and put up probably the greatest performance in NBA history (Game 6 2012 ECF). LeBron is 2 at worst. Stop overrating these past players just because they played a long time ago.

[KenneBell]

One of the worst ESPN lists in a long, long time. The stat geeks have ruined yet another one. :facepalm

[coin24]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

ESPN:facepalm Got to keep pushing the LeBron hype train.. Hes having a pathetic finals series so far but yeah, compare him to Jordan.

[KG215]

People please read my post. I hate ESPN and how much they're hyping up LeBron's block last night, but this isn't them trying to hype him up even more. This is one guy that writes for them from time to time, ranking these players based on a formula HE (not ESPN) created.

It's not ESPN's opinion. It's not something that was compiled by a panel of basketball "experts" that work for ESPN. It's a list that is ranks players based on the results of a formula.

[KG215]

LeBron is easily 2. He averaged 30/10/6 with a 30.3 PER and elite defense. Duncan never approached a 30 PER and Shaq's competition was a joke as well, except he was playing with Kobe. Plus the dude barely even got past the Blazers in 7 games. LeBron played with an injured Wade and Bosh and put up probably the greatest performance in NBA history (Game 6 2012 ECF). LeBron is 2 at worst. Stop overrating these past players just because they played a long time ago.
:facepalm

Quit overselling it and try to at least be somewhat objective. Every time you say things like "easily" or "it's not even close" you just look like an even bigger fanboy.

[Jameerthefear]

This list is a fvcking joke.

[ThaRegul8r]

LeBron is easily 2. He averaged 30/10/6 with a 30.3 PER and elite defense. Duncan never approached a 30 PER and Shaq's competition was a joke as well, except he was playing with Kobe. Plus the dude barely even got past the Blazers in 7 games. LeBron played with an injured Wade and Bosh and put up probably the greatest performance in NBA history (Game 6 2012 ECF). LeBron is 2 at worst. Stop overrating these past players just because they played a long time ago.

Anyone else find it disturbing that Duncan and Shaq are now considered past players who "played a long time ago?"

:wtf:

[Jameerthefear]

Anyone else find it disturbing that Duncan and Shaq are now considered past players who "played a long time ago?"

:wtf:
Don't listen to that dude. He's a clown. I've never seen someone with such an infatuation for another grown ass man.

[plowking]

:facepalm

Quit overselling it and try to at least be somewhat objective. Every time you say things like "easily" or "it's not even close" you just look like an even bigger fanboy.

I think people on this board are underrating if anything (nothing new), just because its Lebron.

Am I the only one that remembers the 45 point game against Boston in that 11-12 run on the brink of elimination?
How about the 40/18/9 game against Indiana when down 2-1 and things looking bad with Bosh injured?
Destroying the Knicks with relative ease?
Then going into the finals and beating his biggest rival decisively. Destroying them from the post, which was said to be his weak point.

Its an all time great run, and the more you look into it, the more favorable it looks once you actually look back at what he accomplished. 30/10/6 are some great numbers to round off the argument.

[Young X]

:oldlol: at Lebron being 2nd. dat media hype.

There should be 6-7 Jordan playoff runs in the top 10.

Why is '06 Dirk AND '11 Lebron higher than '11 Dirk?

Never seen a player more overrated by media hype than Lebron.

[shortsoptional]

People please read my post. I hate ESPN and how much they're hyping up LeBron's block last night, but this isn't them trying to hype him up even more. This is one guy that writes for them from time to time, ranking these players based on a formula HE (not ESPN) created.

It's not ESPN's opinion. It's not something that was compiled by a panel of basketball "experts" that work for ESPN. It's a list that is ranks players based on the results of a formula.

Thank you for pointing that out...

I will say, however, that the fact that WARP isn't mentioned in the title of the article, nor does it say anything about it on the NBA homepage description. It's a misleading list that doesn't mention WARP until the third paragraph.

[KG215]

:oldlol: at Lebron being 2nd. dat media hype.

There should be 6-7 Jordan playoff runs in the top 10.

Why is '06 Dirk AND '11 Lebron higher than '11 Dirk?

Never seen a player more overrated by media hype than Lebron.
:confusedshrug:

Because, based on the formula the writer used, '06 Dirk and '11 LeBron had a higher WARP than '11 Dirk; so did '10 Gasol. It's based on the results of a formula. Not his opinion.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wins Above Replacement Player. I've never seen it used for basketball, but it's a very popular advanced stat in baseball. I don't know Pelton's formula for WARP, either.

But it basically means a league average player is 0.00, so a player with 5.00 WARP add 5 wins to a team if he took the place of a Replacement Player on some team and took all of his minutes. The actual formula and explanation is a lot more complex, and it's way over my head, but here's a link where Pelton (the guy who did this list) explains it all if you want to read it.

http://www.sonicscentral.com/warp.html


So, this wasn't an opinion-based ranking, or a list put together by a panel of experts or whatever voting on each player. It was a list compiled by one guy based on his WARP formula.

SO the people that are pissed off about where a particular player is ranked, take it up with the WARP formula, because that's how Pelton ranked the players. Jordan had the highest WARP in the playoffs, LeBron 2nd highest, Shaq 3rd, etc.

I still have no f**king clue how that formula came to the conclusion Pau Gasol had a higher WARP than '11 Dirk, or how any version of Pippen had a higher WARP than '95 Hakeem, though.

Thanks for the info. Now I see why OP left this out of his title. :oldlol:

[chazzy]

Simply using one "catch-all" stat to rank the greatest playoffs of all time is just lazy journalism.

[2010splash]

:facepalm

Quit overselling it and try to at least be somewhat objective. Every time you say things like "easily" or "it's not even close" you just look like an even bigger fanboy.
Anyone who thinks LeBron 2012 doesn't have a legitimate case for 2nd best playoff run of all-time is just insane. Even if you think it's not #2, it was without question one of the single most dominant runs ever, definitely far more impressive than anything Kobe did. And Shaq never had to drag his team nearly single-handedly because his team was injury-ridden. Duncan never carried the entire offensive load and had to average 33 per game just to scrape by in 7 games because his best teammates were hurt.

Bosh was out for half the playoffs and Wade was playing basically on one healthy leg and struggled in several games. You don't even have to look at the stats. All you need is a properly functioning memory to remember how legendary it was. :facepalm

[Ne 1]

with a 30.3 PER

http://i.imm.io/xcrG.png

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/John-Hollinger.jpg


Shaq's competition was a joke as well, except he was playing with Kobe. Plus the dude barely even got past the Blazers in 7 games. LeBron played with an injured Wade and Bosh


What makes the 2000 Pacers team "a joke" compared to the 2012 Thunder? The 2000 Blazers were better than the 2012 Celtics. The Celtics were also decimated by injuries and had a horrible bench.

The Blazers depth was a big advantage over L.A. The Lakers were actually called "two deep" during the series while Portland was called "too deep".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR7P3DOCTJw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izs53PMDE8s#t=2m24s

It's easy to see why Portland almost beat them. The Lakers had a lot of weaknesses that year and Portland caused a lot of match up problems and were far more stacked. Also for the injury argument, Shaq didn't have Kobe for Games 2 and 3 of the Finals, Kobe twisted his ankle early in the 1st quarter of Game 2 and he was hobbled and limped around in Games 4, 5, and 6.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Lebron at 2 seems ridiculous enough, but '95 Hakeem at 30? :facepalm There's really no way to justify that. They have Hakeem's own '86 run ahead of it! And Dirk at 50?! I mean look at some of the runs they put ahead of these. They had Lebron's own playoff run ahead of Dirk's in 2011. :roll: Both Lebron and Wade are ranked ahead of him that year actually.

[KG215]

Lebron at 2 seems ridiculous enough, but '95 Hakeem at 30? :facepalm There's really no way to justify that. They have Hakeem's own '86 run ahead of it! And Dirk at 50?! I mean look at some of the runs they put ahead of these. They had Lebron's own playoff run ahead of Dirk's in 2011. :roll: Both Lebron and Wade are ranked ahead of him that year actually.
Again, it's based on Kevin Pelton's WARP formula. He ranks the players based on WARP, and I think he added 1-full WARP if they won a championship and 0.5 WARP for a Finals MVP.

This list does make me seriously question WARP, though, although I'm pretty high on it when it comes to baseball.

[YAWN]

Not surprised. He works for ESPN. The company with a "Heat Index" tab on their main website for Lebron :oldlol:

If they can find a way to prop up LeBron they take it.

Im sure they will create a stat they can point to tomorrow about LeBron putting up the greatest performance in history from a forward when playing a game 3 on the road in Texas when the series is tied at 1 a piece and there was only 1 day rest between games 2 & 3...

[KG215]

Anyone who thinks LeBron 2012 doesn't have a legitimate case for 2nd best playoff run of all-time is just insane. Even if you think it's not #2, it was without question one of the single most dominant runs ever, definitely far more impressive than anything Kobe did. And Shaq never had to drag his team nearly single-handedly because his team was injury-ridden. Duncan never carried the entire offensive load and had to average 33 per game just to scrape by in 7 games because his best teammates were hurt.

Bosh was out for half the playoffs and Wade was playing basically on one healthy leg and struggled in several games. You don't even have to look at the stats. All you need is a properly functioning memory to remember how legendary it was. :facepalm
It doesn'thave a case for #2. I'd take 2000 or 2001 Shaq, EASILY (as you would put it), over '12 LeBron. I'd take almost any iteration of first 3-peat Jordan's run over '12 LeBron almost solely based on how legendary Jordan was in all 3 Finals. I'd also take '95 Hakeem over '12 LeBron without hesitation. LeBron has a case for top 5-10, but you're overselling his run last year, and you're way overselling it when you say it's "easily" #2 like you originally stated.

[ShaqAttack3234]

LeBron is easily 2. He averaged 30/10/6 with a 30.3 PER and elite defense. Duncan never approached a 30 PER

Sure, Duncan never approached some made up stat, but he completely dominated the 2003 playoffs in every facet of the game. He only ended the Lakers run of 3 straight finals with a 37/16 in the clinching game, clinched the championship with a 21/20/10/8 game and led his team in scoring, rebounding, assists and blocks throughout the playoffs at 25/15/5/3 while playing dominant defense. But yeah, PER matters more than that. :rolleyes:


and Shaq's competition was a joke as well, except he was playing with Kobe. Plus the dude barely even got past the Blazers in 7 games. LeBron played with an injured Wade and Bosh and put up probably the greatest performance in NBA history (Game 6 2012 ECF). LeBron is 2 at worst. Stop overrating these past players just because they played a long time ago.

:oldlol: Shaq's competition was a joke? The 2000 Blazers were EASILY better than any team Lebron faced in 2012. Portland was the consensus most talented team in the league that year and extremely balanced, both offensively and defensively.

You're talking about Shaq's help in 2000 because he had Kobe? Kobe was 21 and had a 21/5/4, 44%, while Wade had a 23/5/4, 46% postseason. Granted, Kobe was a better defender, but Wade was the more mature player.

And Bosh? Where the hell was Shaq's Chris Bosh? Lebron had a 3rd guy who has now made 8 all-star teams in a row, Shaq didn't have a 3rd guy who was even near all-star level in 2000. As a matter of fact, Lebron's 2nd, 3rd and 4th leading scorers in the 2012 playoffs all scored more than Shaq's 2nd, 3rd and 4th guys.

In addition to that, Miami was top 10 in 3 point shooting that season, while Shaq's Lakers were one of the 5 worst 3 point shooting teams.

If Lebron "dragged" a team to a championship in 2012, then what exactly did Shaq do in 2000?

Then again, it's obvious you weren't watching basketball at the time, otherwise you would have known how good Portland was considered and that everyone was looking ahead to what was expected to be a great series between LA and Portland, and it was.

Besides, that Indiana team was no joke. It's true that the Lakers were the clear favorites, but Indiana had played in the conference finals the 2 previous years(including '98 when they took Jordan's Bulls to 7) and were a very well-built team, particularly their starting lineup. They had two perimeter scorers capable of 20 per game(which they both exceeded in the playoffs) with one being the off the ball scorer(Miller) and the other being more of a 1 on 1 scorer(Rose) and the pass first point guard in Mark Jackson. They had a post scorer in Smits, as well as the more physical banger Dale Davis who covered up Smits deficiencies with his defense and rebounding while improving his offense to the point that he could clean up about 10 ppg in 30 or so mpg. They also had threats coming off the bench in Travis Best, a scoring point guard to give them a different look from Jackson and Austin Croshere, a versatile stretch 4 and hustle player whose play that postseason got him a nice contract. Indiana was also the best 3 point shooting team in the league.

In the end, Shaq averaged 38/17 in the series and Indiana still almost took them to 7, so it's safe to say that Shaq didn't get to just coast in the finals vs any easy opponent. If that was a close series with Shaq averaging 38/17, we have to wonder what it would have been if Shaq had averaged his usual 31/15 as he did for the postseason, or 30/14 as he did for the regular season, much less an average series.

[chazzy]

2010splash is a gimmick account. He doesn't actually believe what he says

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4620615&postcount=63

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6016780&postcount=50

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6016809&postcount=52

[tpols]

Lebron at 2 seems ridiculous enough, but '95 Hakeem at 30? :facepalm There's really no way to justify that. They have Hakeem's own '86 run ahead of it! And Dirk at 50?! I mean look at some of the runs they put ahead of these. They had Lebron's own playoff run ahead of Dirk's in 2011. :roll: Both Lebron and Wade are ranked ahead of him that year actually.
It's pure marketing lol

Dirk 2011 run was easily better than brons 2012 run.. Bron had a more stacked team, easier competition, and was an overwhelming favorite in every series. Dirk and the Mavs were the opposite and balled out of their minds to win.

ESPN gotta get that money

[Leftimage]

It's pure marketing lol

ESPN gotta get that money


Ranking Lebron ridiculously low on this list (say in the 30s-40s) would have generated far more page views due to controversy, hence better advertising revenue down the line for ESPN.

And why would they exclude Kobe, the most marketable NBA star, from the top 5, if they are so ''agenda-driven''

???

[tpols]

Ranking Lebron ridiculously low on this list (say in the 30s-40s) would have generated far more page views due to controversy, hence better advertising revenue down the line for ESPN.

And why would they exclude Kobe, the most marketable NBA star, from the top 5, if they are so ''agenda-driven''

???
Kobe? Old news.

Back in 2010 after he won the fifth ring there were Jordan comparisons for DAYS.. talking about getting the sixth soon and tieing him up as GOAT. Kobe was getting rated number two all time in polls. ESPN ran their scheme for kobe already.

Now it's brons turn. He's the next big story. Like they're gonna focus on old white no sneaker having low revenue generating german dude? ROFL. Dirk took his team into a series versus prime Bron wade and Bosh with terry and chandler as his two biggest weapons and shit on them in crunch time. Dirk shit on the Thunder more than Bron did in 2011 WITHOUT the refs taking Durant out of the game to prevent a collapse.

[Le Shaqtus]

2010splash is a gimmick account. He doesn't actually believe what he says

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4620615&postcount=63

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6016780&postcount=50

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6016809&postcount=52

Chazzy exposing fake ass LeBron stans left and right :applause:

[Trollsmasher]

50. Nowitzki - 2011
49. Wade - 2011
44. LeBron - 2011

:roll: :facepalm

[KG215]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Complete ownage. Chazzy is hands down the best at this. Not the first time he's dug up old posts by a troll-like poster where the old posts contradict everything they post now. And just in case no one wants to click on the links....


Hahahahaha. Miami getting owned here badly. :roll:

LeBron and Wade are both chumps compared to Jordan. Neither of these cowards has the willpower to be a true champion like the GOAT.

Heat fans mad right now.:lol


ROTFLMAO.:roll:

Seriously, dude goes 8-19 in the series clinching game and he's the 2nd greatest player of all time?

Is 25/5 really that impressive?

Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Jordan have all had far more dominant postseason runs than the overrated LeBron.

LeBron is winning titles because he has the best supporting cast of all time. Good for him, but he'll be lucky to crack the top 5 all time, let alone top 2.


Chris Bosh was a top 7 player who averaged 24/11/3 on great efficiency as the #1 option on a borderline playoff team (with crummy teammates) the season before he joined Miami.

Dwyane Wade was a top 3 player.

Nobody has ever had as much help as the wussy LeBron hahaha. Anybody can take the easy way out and win with a supporting cast like this.

Give Jordan a Larry Bird and Kevin Mchale on his team and he'd win 10 titles instead of 6.

Give Shaq a Chris Bosh level player in addition to Kobe and the Lakers would do better than 3 peat.

Jeez, give Duncan both Wade and Bosh (who are much better than Parker and Ginobili) and he'd win more too.

Comparing LeBron's supporting cast to any other player's is a joke. How can people be this dumb?:roll:

"Everyone needed great teammates."

Yeah, but not everyone needed two top 7 players from the previous year. :roll:


You'd think people that create an account for the sole purposes of trolling would be smart enough to stick to one agenda, and know that someone is going to be able to dig up old posts like this. In a matter of two years he's gone from being completely and totally anti-LeBron, to one of the biggest LeBron fanboys on ISH.

[KG215]

Originally Posted by tpols
It's pure marketing lol

ESPN gotta get that money
It's not marketing. The guy who wrote the article came up with a WARP formula for the NBA. WARP has been a "mainstream" advanced stat for quite awhile in baseball, but not so much in basketball. However, it's been around for awhile, so this isn't something Pelton just recently came-up with and manipulated the formula just to get LeBron at or near the top. The players are ranked by highest to lowest WARP with 1.0 WARP added for a championship and 0.5 WARP added for a Finals MVP.

[tpols]

It's not marketing. The guy who wrote the article came up with a WARP formula for the NBA. WARP has been used for quite awhile now in baseball. Now, there's an off-chance ESPN told him to do whatever it takes to manipulate the formula so LeBron finishes #1 or #2, but I doubt it. The players are ranked by highest to lowest WARP with 1.0 WARP added for a championship and 0.5 WARP added for a Finals MVP.
Some guy came up with some bogus formula that says taking Bron off the 2011 heat would make the heat worse than taking dirk off his 2011 squad? LOL.. we saw Bron replace himself with a role player in the finals and his squad was still balling almost pulling a finals series out.

This is just another PER like bs stat.. That accounts for no context. Just numbers. This ain't baseball, there are many more moving parts.

[KG215]

Some guy came up with some bogus formula that says taking Bron off the 2011 heat would make the heat worse than taking dirk off his 2011 squad? LOL.. we saw Bron replace himself with a role player in the finals and his squad was still balling almost pulling a finals series out.

This is just another PER like bs stat.. That accounts for no context. Just numbers. This ain't baseball, there are many more moving parts.
I didn't say I agreed with it. I linked his website where he explains the stat, and he even says it doesn't account for defense. I'm just saying this article wasn't done as a marketing tool for LeBron. It wasn't opinion-based or anything like that.

[Crystallas]

Individual playoff runs?

#1. Rookie Magic 1980 (and I'm a Bulls homer)
#2. 1992 Jordan, not 91, Ninety-TWO.
#3. 1994 Hakeem.
#4. 2000 Shaq
#5. 2011 Dirk

[tpols]

I didn't say I agreed with it. I linked his website where he explains the stat, and he even says it doesn't account for defense. I'm just saying this article wasn't done as a marketing tool for LeBron. It wasn't opinion-based or anything like that.
ESPN has been promoting Bron nonstop.. This article may not have been created for the sole purpose of propping him, but they will take it all the way to the bank for what it is.

When Bron carries his teammates against Indy they're the Miami cavaliers.. When he gets spooked in the finals and is scared to shoot it and Mario Chalmers goes off for more buckets than him(a role player) all we here is how great his unselfishness is and how hes getting his teammates involved. They've got every angle covered. :oldlol:

They did the same thing with Kobe back then and will continue to do it with every big seller that comes along.

[360crazy]

I lol@ people who say stats mean little. Replace the numbers at the end of the game with 0's and let's see how much of a game you have left. :facepalm:


Stats ARE EVERYTHING. Not just something...but EVERYTHING.


Like I said fill that stat sheet with nothing but 0's since stats don't mean anything. Fools with fool logic I tell you.

[KG215]

Rookie Magic wasn't even his team's best player in the 1980 run. Kareem averaged 32-12-4-3 on 57% shooting and should've won Finals MVP. Magic was great in the clinching game 6 but he had better playoff runs as an individual.

[Ne 1]

Stats ARE EVERYTHING. Not just something...but EVERYTHING.


Maybe in baseball, not in baksetball though. Stats are only an indicator of what happened, not absolute, concrete proof and we all know that stats can be manipulated in various ways.

Stats do not tell the whole story of a player, a team, a game, series, or a season. There are a lot of things that go into an NBA game that you can't measure with stats. You have to actually watch games to accurately know the whole story. There will always be things that you can't see by looking at stats. That's the problem with guys who don't watch games and just throw out a bunch of numbers and come to conclusions by simply looking at box scores. Read Simmon's "the book of basketball." Do you know the "secret" of basketball? You do not judge a player strictly by points, rebounds and assists. These only account for at most 20% of what happens on the court.

[chazzy]

Beyond the fact that it relies entirely on one metric, it gives no weight to more important series - meaning stats in the first round are as important as stats in the finals. Doesn't factor in context of competition and help. You would think a site that has the resources it has would actually do a thorough breakdown, instead of slapping together this lazy piece.

[Legends66NBA7]

Well, I've decided to not take Kevin P's formula seriously. Someone with Insider needs to post the whole list, but I skimmed through some of the selections here and the rankings are absurd.


Stats ARE EVERYTHING. Not just something...but EVERYTHING.

No, watch the games, then look at the statistics and put it all into CONTEXT. That's everything.

[Ca$H]

I want LBJ to penetrate my backdoor

:wtf:

[Ca$H]

I want the King's scepter to enter my backdoor.

:biggums:

[DMAVS41]

tpols going HAM on the morons here...

I nearly fell over laughing with 12 Lebron's ranking...hilarious.

And then I nearly shit myself with 11 Lebron being ranked over Dirk...wow

I'll never understand the need to try to use 1 stat to rank things. Does his metric not factor in clutch play? I mean...at least assign value to things we know have value.

I didn't see Wilt play...and no doubt he was amazing, but Lebron really does seem to be the Wilt of this era. Which isn't really a knock, but these stats and advanced metrics really do over-rate his actual impact

Shaq at his peak was simply far more dominant. Not a person that watched them both would disagree.

[Bandito]

Dirk 2011 > LeBron 2012
Yes oh Yes.

[Magic 32]

6. Shaquille O'Neal, Lakers, 2001

Position: C | Age: 298

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
16 30.4 15.4 3.2 2.4 0.4 56.4 32.0

The Lakers defended their championship with a 15-1 playoff run, one John Hollinger ranked the greatest in post-merger history, and O'Neal put up nearly a carbon copy of his 2000 performance, averaging identical rebound totals, 0.3 points per game fewer and 0.1 assists per game more. Why does 2000 get the nod? The big difference is in turnovers -- O'Neal averaged 2.4 in 2000 and 3.6 in 2001, enough to bump this one down two spots lower.

There were plenty of impressive performances along the way. O'Neal dropped consecutive 40-20 games on Vlade Divac and the Sacramento Kings (44-21 in Game 1, 43-20 in Game 2). He bounced back from his worst performance of the playoffs (19 points on 8-of-21 shooting in a Game 2 win at San Antonio) with 35 points on 16-of-23 shooting from the field in a 39-point Game 3 evisceration en route to the sweep. The Lakers' lone loss, Game 1 of the NBA Finals against the Philadelphia 76ers, came despite O'Neal's 44 points and 20 rebounds. But his best all-around performance of the series might have come in Game 2, as the Lakers rebounded with the first of four consecutive wins: 28 points, 20 rebounds, nine assists and eight blocks.



7. Hakeem Olajuwon, Rockets, 1994

Position: C | Age: 31

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 28.9 11.0 4.3 4.0 1.7 56.8 31.4

The year before he was reunited with college teammate Clyde Drexler, Olajuwon dragged a Rockets team without a second star to the first of back-to-back championships. Olajuwon averaged more than twice as many points in the playoffs as Houston's second-leading scorer (Vernon Maxwell, 13.8 points per game), the highest such ratio ever for a championship team. But the Rockets' fleet of outside shooters ideally suited Olajuwon's game, and he dominated the defensive end, becoming the only player to average 4.0 blocks per game in a Finals run.

Houston needed Olajuwon to be great every night, and he scored at least 20 points in 22 of 23 playoff games, including a pair of 40-point efforts. In the NBA Finals, Olajuwon outdueled Patrick Ewing of the New York Knicks, averaging 26.1 points while holding Ewing to 18.9 PPG on 36.3 percent shooting in the Rockets' seven-game triumph.


8. Moses Malone, 76ers, 1983

Position: C | Age: 28

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
13 26.0 15.8 1.5 1.9 1.5 58.7 26.0

While the 76ers couldn't quite live up to Malone's famous "fo', fo', fo'" declaration -- they actually went fo', fi', fo', losing Game 4 at Milwaukee in the Eastern Conference finals -- they came as close to playoff perfect as any team before or since. Malone carried the team there in far and away his best postseason run. His 15.8 rebounds per game was the highest of any player to reach the Finals post-merger, and Malone's 53.6 percent shooting tied his best in a playoff run.

Aside from a 38-point outing in as many minutes during the first game of the postseason against New York, Malone was more about consistency than big performances. He recorded a double-double in all 13 games Philadelphia played and wrapped up an NBA Finals sweep of the Lakers with his only 20-20 effort (24 points, 23 rebounds). In the Finals, Malone outscored Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 103-94 and outrebounded him 72-30 in virtually identical minute totals.


9. Larry Bird, Celtics, 1984


Position: SF | Age: 27

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 27.5 11.0 5.9 1.2 2.3 60.7 25.9

A playoff run that culminated with the Celtics beating the Lakers in seven games in the first of their three meetings goes down as the best of Larry Legend's career -- barely. Bird's 27.5 points per game marked his highest postseason scoring average, and he managed that figure while shooting a career-high 52.4 percent from the field. He scored at least 20 points in 22 of 23 games.

Bird's best outing came in Game 5 of the conference semifinals, as Boston closed out New York behind his 39 points, 12 rebounds and 10 assists. Bird outscored Bernard King in the series, 30.4 PPG to 29.1. Going against Lakers stopper Michael Cooper in the Finals, Bird alternated tough shooting nights with great ones. In a crucial Game 4 win at L.A., he scored 29 points, grabbed 21 rebounds and put the Celtics ahead for good with a jumper in overtime.


10. Larry Bird, Celtics, 1986

Position: SF | Age: 29

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
18 25.9 9.3 8.2 0.6 2.1 61.5 23.3


Picking between Bird's 1984 and 1986 playoff runs is like choosing between Biggie or 2Pac: Either way, you're arguing for greatness. By 1986, Bird's evolution into a perimeter-oriented small forward was complete. He became the first NBA player to make 50 percent from the field, 40 percent on 3-point shots and 90 percent of free throws taken in a playoff run with at least 50 3-point attempts (Ray Allen in 2011 is the other one to date, and Bird is the only player do to so over 10 games or more). Bird also averaged 8.2 assists, the best mark of his playoff career at the time, taking advantage of the deepest roster the Celtics put together in the 1980s.

If anything, Bird wasn't tested enough as Boston was forced to a Game 6 just once. He peaked at 36 points in both Game 2 and Game 5 against the Atlanta Hawks in the conference semifinals. During the NBA Finals, facing the Houston Rockets, Bird topped the 30-point mark just once but recorded two of his three playoff triple-doubles, including 29 points, 12 assists and 11 rebounds as Boston closed out the series in Game 6.

[Magic 32]

11. Tim Duncan, Spurs, 1999

Position: PF | Age: 23

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
17 23.2 11.5 2.8 2.6 0.8 57.3 26.8

No asterisk here. Duncan's first championship run saw him average 43.1 minutes per game, his highest playoff average, for a team that rolled through the post-lockout playoffs 15-2. In the NBA Finals, Duncan played 229 of a possible 240 minutes as the Spurs defeated the New York Knicks 4-1, averaging 27.4 points and 14.0 rebounds. The hidden key to Duncan's playoff success? He made 74.8 percent of his free throw attempts, including 35 of 44 (79.5 percent) in the Finals.


12. Shaquille O'Neal, Lakers, 2002

Position: C | Age: 30

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
19 28.5 12.6 2.8 2.5 0.5 56.9 31.4

With Kobe Bryant emerging as a co-star, O'Neal carried a slightly lighter load in terms of scoring and rebounding in the Lakers' third consecutive title. But he was still capable of taking over, including a 41-point, 17-board effort in the infamous Game 6 win over Sacramento in the Western Conference finals. O'Neal obliterated rookie Jason Collins and Todd MacCulloch in the NBA Finals, averaging 36.1 points, 12.0 rebounds and 17.0 free throw attempts (shooting a timely 66.2 percent at the line) in a four-game sweep of the New Jersey Nets.


13. Dwyane Wade, Heat, 2006

Position: SG | Age: 24

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 28.4 5.9 5.7 1.1 2.2 59.3 31.7

John Hollinger ranked Wade's Finals performance against the Dallas Mavericks (34.7 PPG, 7.8 RPG, 97 free throw attempts in six games) the greatest in post-merger history. A young, explosive Wade lived at the foul line all postseason; his 250 attempts rank fourth over the past 35 years, and only then-teammate Shaquille O'Neal has taken more in that span, having done it three times. Wade's playmaking -- he recorded four point-assist double-doubles -- also helped get Miami to the NBA Finals.


14. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1992

Position: SG | Age: 29

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
22 34.5 6.2 5.8 0.7 2.0 57.1 37.1

The longest of Jordan's championship runs at 22 games saw his second-highest scoring average in a title year. It came at a price: Jordan was much more prone to turnovers, which bumped him out of the top 10. Jordan had big moments throughout the postseason. He dropped 56 on an overmatched Miami squad to complete a sweep and came through with 42 points in a blowout after the Knicks forced a Game 7.

The defining memory remains Game 1 of the NBA Finals versus Portland, when Jordan hit six 3-pointers in the first half against rival Clyde Drexler and shrugged at Magic Johnson (broadcasting the game for NBC) to indicate his own disbelief. Jordan finished the game with 39 points and averaged 35.8 in the Finals.


15. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Lakers, 1980

Position: C | Age: 33

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
15 31.9 12.1 3.1 3.9 1.1 61.1 28.5

If not for an ill-timed sprained ankle, Abdul-Jabbar might have placed in the top 10. Abdul-Jabbar rolled his ankle in the third quarter of Game 5 of the NBA Finals against the 76ers. Though he came back to score 14 points in the fourth quarter of the win, swelling prevented Abdul-Jabbar from traveling back to Philadelphia for Game 6. Magic Johnson moved to center in his place, led the Lakers to an improbable win and claimed Finals MVP honors despite Abdul-Jabbar averaging 33.4 points, 13.6 rebounds and 4.6 blocks in the five games he was able to play.

[Magic 32]

16. Magic Johnson, Lakers, 1987

Position: PG | Age: 27

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
18 21.8 7.7 12.2 0.4 1.7 60.7 23.1

Fittingly, Johnson's best postseason run puts him right behind Abdul-Jabbar. In 1986-87, Johnson replaced the aging captain as the Lakers' go-to guy. That was on full display in the NBA Finals against the rival Celtics, as Johnson averaged 26.2 points, 13.0 assists and 8.2 rebounds to beat Boston in six games and earn MVP honors. Johnson's "junior, junior sky hook" won Game 4 of the series at the Garden, and he had three playoff triple-doubles, though surprisingly none in the Finals.


17. Kobe Bryant, Lakers, 2009

Position: SG | Age: 30

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 30.2 5.3 5.5 0.9 1.7 56.4 32.9

Bryant earned his first championship as a go-to guy with his best postseason run. After a tough series with Houston's Shane Battier, who held him to 14 points in Game 7(Bulls*it), Bryant was nearly unstoppable the rest of the way to the title. He averaged 34.0 points, including a pair of 40-plus efforts, against Denver in the Western Conference finals. Bryant started the NBA Finals versus Orlando with a 40-point effort and handed out eight assists in four of the five games.


18. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1997

Position: SG | Age: 34

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
19 31.1 7.9 4.8 0.9 1.6 52.4 35.5

The highest-rated title run from Jordan's second three-peat is remembered best for the "Flu Game." (Or was it, as Jordan's trainer Tim Grover recently suggested on TrueHoop TV, the "Food Poisoning Game"?) Either way, Jordan was ill to the point of nausea when he dropped 38 points at Utah, and the Bulls needed every one of them in a two-point Game 5 win that gave them the series lead. Chicago would finish the Jazz in Game 6, with Jordan setting up Steve Kerr's championship-securing jumper. If that wasn't enough, Jordan also made the winning shot at the buzzer in Game 1.


19. Larry Bird, Celtics, 1981

Position: SF | Age: 24

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
17 21.9 14.0 6.1 1.0 2.3 53.2 23.2

Bird's 1981 run is the second of the top 20 that did not result in a Finals MVP. The Rockets held Bird to 15.3 points and 41.9 percent shooting in the Finals, while Cedric Maxwell averaged 17.7 points and 9.5 rebounds on 56.8 percent shooting from the field to win MVP honors.

Bird did contribute 15.3 rebounds per game in the Finals, capping his best playoff run on the glass. And he got the better of Julius Erving in the Eastern Conference finals, averaging 26.7 points as the Celtics knocked off the defending East champs.


20. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1996

Position: SG | Age: 33

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
18 30.7 4.9 4.1 0.3 1.8 56.4 32.9

Jordan's first full season back from retirement ended with a 72-win Chicago team claiming the championship on Father's Day, less than three years after Jordan's father, James, was murdered. John Hollinger rated this as Jordan's worst Finals; he averaged 23.7 points on 36.7 percent shooting after Gary Payton switched onto him for Game 4, and the Sonics were able to extend the series to six games.

Jordan was better earlier in the playoffs, dropping a pair of 40-plus efforts on the Knicks and scoring 45 in Game 4 against Orlando as the Bulls avenged their 1995 loss with an Eastern Conference finals sweep.


21. Tim Duncan, Spurs, 2007

Position: PF | Age: 31

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
20 22.2 11.5 3.3 3.1 0.7 55.6 29.5

Tony Parker claimed Finals MVP honors by leading all scorers with 24.5 points on 56.8 percent shooting in a defense-first sweep of Cleveland. But Duncan, who shot just 44.6 percent while averaging 18.3 points and 11.5 rebounds in the Finals, came through in San Antonio's most difficult series -- a 4-2 win over the rival Phoenix Suns in the conference semifinals. Duncan torched the Suns for 26.8 points, 13.7 rebounds and 4.2 blocks per game.


22. LeBron James, Cavaliers, 2009

Position: SF | Age: 24

Result: Lost in East finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
14 35.3 9.1 7.3 0.9 1.6 61.8 36.4

Unlike everyone ahead of him on the list, James didn't win a championship. In fact, the Cavaliers didn't even reach the NBA Finals, losing to the Orlando Magic in six games in the Eastern Conference finals. But James was more valuable in three series than any Finals loser was in four. On a per-minute basis, James' .879 individual win percentage (the estimate of how often James and four average players would win) blows away any playoff performance since the merger. He used 36.4 percent of Cleveland's plays with a true shooting percentage north of 60 percent, rebounded like a big man and passed like a point guard.

In the East finals, James averaged 38.5 points, 8.3 rebounds and 8.0 assists, making a buzzer-beating 3 for one of the Cavaliers' two wins. Alas, Cleveland's supporting cast wasn't up to the task. No reserve averaged more than 3.6 points per game in the series.


23. Magic Johnson, Lakers, 1980

Position: PG | Age: 20

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
16 18.3 10.5 9.4 0.4 3.1 59.6 18.6

The precocious Johnson put together the finest postseason by a rookie since the merger to become the only first-year player to win Finals MVP honors. As a 20-year-old, Johnson nearly averaged a triple-double and better than three steals per game. And, of course, he saved his best performance for the clinching Game 6 of the NBA Finals at Philadelphia. After moving to center in place of the injured Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Johnson scored 42 points, grabbed 15 rebounds and handed out seven assists in the win.


24. Magic Johnson, Lakers, 1982

Position: PG | Age: 22

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
14 17.4 11.3 9.3 0.2 2.9 61.4 16.9

After an embarrassing 1981 playoffs -- the Rockets upset the Lakers in the best-of-three first round, with Johnson airballing a shot in the closing seconds of Game 3 -- a healthy Johnson put together a near-carbon copy of his 1980 run to lead the Lakers to a second title. This time, Johnson finished off the Sixers with a triple-double in Game 6, clinching his second Finals MVP award.


25. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1998

Position: SG | Age: 35

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
21 32.4 5.1 3.5 0.6 1.5 54.5 36.6

With Scottie Pippen injured for most of the regular season, the 35-year-old Jordan was worn down by the end of Chicago's second three-peat. Increasingly prone to off shooting nights, Jordan compensated with his ability to get to the free throw line. He had enough left for one last signature performance: 45 points in Game 6 at Utah, including a steal and the game-winning jumper over Byron Russell in the closing seconds to secure a sixth title.

[Magic 32]

26. Isiah Thomas, Pistons, 1990

Position: PG | Age: 29

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
20 20.5 5.5 8.2 0.4 2.2 56.0 25.4

Thomas was at his best in the playoffs during the second of the Pistons' back-to-back championship runs in large part because of a well-timed hot streak beyond the arc. A 29 percent career 3-point shooter, Thomas went 11-of-16 (68.8 percent) from downtown as Detroit took care of Portland in five games. Thomas averaged 27.6 points and 7.0 assists in the series.


27. Hakeem Olajuwon, Rockets, 1986

Position: C | Age: 23

Result: Lost NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
20 26.9 11.8 2.0 3.5 2.0 56.6 27.3

Olajuwon's 1986 run ranks as the best ever by a Finals loser. On a per-minute basis, Olajuwon was even more effective than when he led the 1994 Rockets to the championship. He averaged nearly 10 free throw attempts per game and was huge in a Western Conference finals upset of the Lakers, averaging 31.0 points and 11.2 rebounds. (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar averaged 27.0 ppg and 6.8 rpg.)


28. Scottie Pippen, Bulls, 1996

Position: SF | Age: 30

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
18 16.9 8.5 5.9 0.9 2.6 47.3 22.2

Pippen's 1996 playoff run rates as the most valuable by a second banana, just ahead of Magic Johnson's 1980 postseason (Johnson appears higher in the rankings because he won Finals MVP). While he struggled with his shot (34.3 percent in the Finals), Pippen was at his best defensively, averaging 2.6 steals and 0.9 blocks per game. And he put together one of his best all-around performances with 22 points, 18 boards and 10 assists in Game 3 against Miami in the opening round.


29. Tim Duncan, Spurs, 2005

Position: PF | Age: 29

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 23.6 12.4 2.7 2.3 0.3 52.6 31.1

Like the title run itself, Duncan's 2005 playoffs were the most workmanlike of his four championship seasons. He shot just 46.7 percent from the field in the postseason, including 41.9 percent in a rugged seven-game NBA Finals against Detroit. Yet Duncan was his usual consistent presence, contributing 18 double-doubles in 23 games and anchoring the defense, which earned him Finals MVP honors.


30. Hakeem Olajuwon, Rockets, 1995

Position: C | Age: 32

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
22 33.0 10.3 4.5 2.8 1.2 56.0 35.9

Olajuwon actually scored more in the Rockets' repeat despite the arrival of Clyde Drexler. The center topped 40 points five times, including three alone in his Western Conference finals destruction of MVP David Robinson. (Olajuwon: 35.3 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, 4.2 bpg; Robinson: 23.8 ppg, 11.7 rpg, 2.7 apg, 2.2 bpg.) So why does 1995 rate so much lower? Olajuwon wasn't the same defensive presence, blocking shots about 20 percent less frequently than in 1994.


31. Kobe Bryant, Lakers, 2001

Position: SG | Age: 22

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
16 29.4 7.3 6.1 0.8 1.6 55.5 30.3

Far and away Bryant's best effort as a sidekick came during the Lakers' 15-1 playoff run. He was supremely versatile, recording five point-rebound double-doubles and one of the point-assist variety. Bryant's best scoring output came in consecutive games as the Lakers swept away Sacramento and started a sweep of San Antonio. He put up 93 points on just 76 shooting possessions (field goal attempts and trips to the free throw line) in the two wins.


32. Scottie Pippen, Bulls, 1991

Position: SF | Age: 25

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
17 21.6 8.9 5.8 1.1 2.5 56.4 25.2

The Bulls' first championship was also Pippen's highest scoring as a No. 2 option (he averaged 22.8 ppg in 1994 when Michael Jordan was in retirement). Pippen made a solid 52.1 percent of his 2-point shots while supplying his usual all-around brilliance. He recorded seven point-rebound double-doubles and two more of the point-assist variety. Pippen capped the title run with 32 points, 13 rebounds, seven assists and five steals in Game 5 of the Finals as Chicago closed out the Lakers.


33. Charles Barkley, Suns, 1993

Position: PF | Age: 30

Result: Lost NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
24 26.6 13.6 4.3 1.0 1.6 55.2 27.3

After Game 5 of the NBA Finals, Barkley told Ahmad Rashad that God wanted the Suns to beat the Chicago Bulls. Alas, neither divine intervention nor one of the best playoff efforts by a Finals loser could prevent the Bulls from completing their first three-peat. Earlier in the playoffs, Barkley hit a buzzer-beater to complete a 4-2 series win over San Antonio and came through with 44 points and 24 points in the deciding Game 7 of the Western Conference finals against Seattle, one of three 40-plus efforts from Barkley during the postseason.


34. Kobe Bryant, Lakers, 2010

Position: SG | Age: 31

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 29.2 6.0 5.5 0.7 1.3 56.7 33.2

In a rare NBA Finals Game 7 -- one of just two since 1994 -- Bryant suffered through a 6-of-24 shooting night but still helped the Lakers beat the rival Celtics by grabbing 15 rebounds and getting to the free throw line 15 times. Bryant also earned Finals MVP honors despite shooting just 40.5 percent from the field. His best series was the Western Conference finals against Phoenix, in which he averaged 33.7 points, 8.3 assists and 7.2 rebounds.


35. Kevin Durant, Thunder, 2012

Position: SF | Age: 23

Result: Lost NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
20 28.5 7.4 3.7 1.2 1.5 63.2 28.8

Durant opened the playoffs with a game-winning jumper that kicked off a four-game sweep of the Dallas Mavericks and rode the momentum all the way to the NBA Finals. Despite facing the opposition's best defender and double-teams, Durant made 57.5 percent of his 2-pointers and 37.3 percent beyond the arc. He scored at least 20 points in every Oklahoma City game and averaged 30.6 ppg during the NBA Finals, which wasn't enough to avoid a five-game loss to the Heat.

[Magic 32]

36. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1990

Position: SG | Age: 27

Result: Lost in East finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
16 36.7 7.2 6.8 0.9 2.8 59.2 36.1

Before the maturation of teammates Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen, Jordan's heroics alone weren't enough to get the Bulls past the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons -- but they were close. Responsible for creating more than 36 percent of Chicago's plays, Jordan still shot better than 50 percent from the field in a run nearly the per-minute equal of the 1991 postseason that tops this list. He scored 40-plus points six times in 16 games, yet Detroit was able to hold him to 26.8 ppg in four losses in a seven-game Eastern Conference finals.


37. Dwight Howard, Magic, 2009

Position: C | Age: 23

Result: Lost NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 20.3 15.3 1.9 2.6 0.9 63.4 23.3

Tucking his cape beneath his Magic jersey, Howard became Superman to lead Orlando to an unexpected spot in the NBA Finals. Howard grabbed better than one in four rebounds in the postseason, the best postmerger mark by any regular not named Dennis Rodman. Howard finished an Eastern Conference finals upset of LeBron James and the Cavaliers with 40 points and 14 boards, shooting 14-of-21 from the field and 12-of-16 from the free throw line.


38. David Robinson, Spurs, 1999

Position: C | Age: 33

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
17 15.6 9.9 2.5 2.4 1.6 56.3 22.7

After nearly a decade of playoff frustration, Robinson won his first championship by making room for a young Tim Duncan to emerge as the Spurs' go-to player. But a 33-year-old Robinson still had plenty left to contribute to the effort, averaging nearly a double-double and 2.4 blocks per game. Against the Knicks in the NBA Finals, Robinson averaged 16.6 points and 11.8 rebounds and recorded four double-doubles in five games.


39. LeBron James, Cavs, 2007

Position: SF | Age: 22

Result: Lost NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
20 25.1 8.1 8.0 0.5 1.7 51.6 29.7

The 2007 Eastern Conference finals served notice that James, at 22, had made the leap to superstardom. After the veteran Pistons took a 2-0 lead at home, James led the Cavaliers to four consecutive wins. His "48 special" in Game 5 at Detroit saw James score 29 of the team's last 30 points, most of which came in the paint, and he followed it up with 20 points, 14 rebounds and eight assists as Cleveland clinched its first trip to the NBA Finals. Even a four-game sweep at the hands of the Spurs could not diminish James' postseason.


40. Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks, 2006

Position: PF | Age: 27

Result: Lost NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 27.0 11.7 2.9 0.6 1.1 59.6 26.9

With a run to the 2006 NBA Finals, Nowitzki kicked off a 12-month stretch in which he was the world's best player. He dragged the Mavericks past the defending champion Spurs by scoring 37 points and grabbing 15 rebounds in a Game 7 at San Antonio, including the three-point play that forced overtime. After shooting 3-of-13 as Phoenix tied the Western Conference finals at two, Nowitzki dropped 50 points in Game 5 en route to a 4-2 series win. But Miami finally found an answer for Nowitzki in the NBA Finals, holding him to 39.2 percent shooting in a six-game triumph over his Mavs.


41. Pau Gasol, Lakers, 2010

Position: PF | Age: 29

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 19.6 11.1 3.5 2.1 0.4 59.9 21.0

Few NBA Finals have sparked as much debate about MVP as 2010. When Bryant was shooting 6-of-24 in Game 7, Gasol had 19 points and 18 boards in the clincher. (In fairness, he shot 6-of-16 himself.) Bryant got the award, but Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP) favors Gasol, who averaged 18.6 points, 11.6 rebounds, 3.7 assists and 2.6 blocks per game against the Celtics. Gasol also had the better WARP total throughout the postseason -- the best of his career -- but Bryant edges him on these rankings because of the Finals MVP bonus.


42. Shaquille O'Neal, Lakers, 2004

Position:C | Age: 32

Result: Lost NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
22 21.5 13.2 2.5 2.8 0.3 56.5 25.2

As part of a lineup with four Hall of Famers, O'Neal got fewer touches for the 2004 Lakers team that lost to Detroit in the NBA Finals. His scoring average was his lowest in eight playoff runs with the Lakers. Otherwise, O'Neal was his usual dominant force, shooting nearly 60 percent from the field. Going against reigning defensive player of the year Ben Wallace, O'Neal was still effective in the Finals, averaging 26.6 points on 63.1 percent shooting.


43. Elvin Hayes, Bullets, 1978

Position: PF-C | Age: 32

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
21 21.8 13.3 2.0 2.5 1.5 51.5 22.5

The only '70s representative on the list, the Big E couldn't entirely silence his critics while leading the Bullets to their lone championship. While Hayes was the team's leading scorer (20.7) and rebounder (11.9) in the Finals, he struggled as the series went on and scored just 12 points in the clinching Game 7 at Seattle. Teammate Wes Unseld won Finals MVP honors, but Hayes can point to his contributions throughout the postseason.


44. LeBron James, Heat, 2011

Position: SF | Age: 26

Result: Lost NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
21 23.7 8.4 5.9 1.2 1.7 56.3 26.9

The worst per-minute postseason for James since his 2007 breakthrough still cracks the top 50. (2008 and 2010 are missing because the Cavaliers were knocked out too early in the postseason.) Of course, an off playoffs for James still saw him top the 30-point mark five times and deliver clutch shots in both a semifinal win over Boston and an Eastern Conference finals upset of Chicago. However, James ran out of gas in an inexplicably poor NBA Finals, averaging just 17.8 points in a 4-2 Dallas victory.


45. Scottie Pippen, Bulls, 1992

Position: SF | Age: 26

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
22 19.5 8.8 6.7 1.1 1.9 54.4 23.6

Pippen embraced the role of point forward during the 1991-92 season and 1992 playoffs, leading the Bulls in assists. In his most-versatile Finals performance, Pippen averaged 20.8 points, 8.3 rebounds and 7.7 assists as the Bulls beat Portland 4-2. Over the postseason, Pippen had seven point-rebound double-doubles, three point-assist double-doubles and one of his four career playoff triple-doubles.

[Magic 32]

46. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1989

Position: SG | Age: 26

Result: Lost East finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
17 34.8 7.0 7.6 0.8 2.5 60.2 35.4

Jordan's earliest playoff appearance on the list came when he took the Bulls to the Eastern Conference finals for the first time. First, Jordan finished the Cavaliers with "The Shot" in Game 5 at Cleveland, capping a run of 138 points in three games. Chicago then upset New York behind three 40-plus scoring outings in six games, but the eventual champion Pistons limited Jordan to just 29.7 ppg in a six-game Eastern Conference finals victory in which just two other Bulls averaged double figures.


47. Magic Johnson, Lakers, 1988

Position: PG | Age: 28

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
24 19.9 5.4 12.6 0.2 1.4 60.0 22.1

In turnabout for the 1980 Finals, Johnson lost MVP honors to teammate James Worthy, who had the only triple-double of his career (36 points, 16 rebounds and 10 assists) in a Game 7 win over Detroit. But Johnson, who averaged 21.1 points, 13.0 assists and 5.7 rebounds in the series, was far more valuable over the course of the playoffs, handing out double-digit assists 19 times in 24 games.


48. Manu Ginobili, Spurs, 2005

Position: SG | Age: 27

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 20.8 5.8 4.2 0.3 1.2 65.2 26.3

Ginobili emerged as the Spurs' second-leading scorer and a worthy perimeter complement to Tim Duncan in his third NBA campaign. Ginobili served notice of his scoring prowess with a 39-point outburst against Seattle in the conference finals, then set up Duncan for the series-clinching basket in Game 6. In the Finals, Ginobili averaged 22.8 points in San Antonio's four wins of the seven-game series with Detroit.


49. Dwyane Wade, Heat, 2011

Position: SG | Age: 29

Result: Lost NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
21 24.5 7.1 4.4 1.3 1.6 57.0 30.4

Wade was the team's leading scorer during the first postseason run for the Heat's Big Three. With LeBron James struggling in the NBA Finals, Wade took over, averaging 26.5 points on 54.6 percent shooting in the 4-2 series loss to Dallas. He was also at his best in a five-game semifinal win against the Boston Celtics, averaging 30.2 points on 52.6 percent shooting and making key late buckets.


50. Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks, 2011

Position: PF | Age: 32

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
21 27.7 8.1 2.5 0.6 0.6 60.9 32.0

With time running out to win a championship in his prime, Nowitzki reached the pinnacle in his 13th season. At 32, Nowitzki remained as integral as ever to the Mavericks offense, using nearly a third of the team's plays while maintaining strong efficiency with 46.0 percent shooting from 3-point range and near-perfect accuracy at the foul line (175 of 186, 94.1 percent). Nowitzki averaged 32.2 points on 55.7 percent shooting in a Western Conference finals win over the Oklahoma City Thunder, then put up four 20-10 performances in the six-game Finals win over Miami to earn MVP honors.

[plowking]

Dirk 2011 has absolutely no case over Lebron 2012. None.

Lebron put up the better stats, put up clutch performances himself, and put in some of the most memorable playoff games of all time. 45 points against the Celtics and his 40/18/9 games against the Pacers.
Not to mention Lebron had a historically good finals, where as Dirk's finals series was probably his worst in his playoff run.

Some of you simply will do anything to diminish what Lebron has done.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk 2011 has absolutely no case over Lebron 2012. None.

Lebron put up the better stats, put up clutch performances himself, and put in some of the most memorable playoff games of all time. 45 points against the Celtics and his 40/18/9 games against the Pacers.
Not to mention Lebron had a historically good finals, where as Dirk's finals series was probably his worst in his playoff run.

Some of you simply will do anything to diminish what Lebron has done.

I actually have no problem with this. I think it's closer than you do, but would probably rank Lebron's higher because of his dominance on both ends...

But 11? Completely laughable...

Oh...and Lebron's 12 playoffs have no business being 2. That is the biggest joke ever.

[plowking]

I actually have no problem with this. I think it's closer than you do, but would probably rank Lebron's higher because of his dominance on both ends...

But 11? Completely laughable...

Oh...and Lebron's 12 playoffs have no business being 2. That is the biggest joke ever.

Agreed that its not second, but then again Jordan's 91 run isn't first either, and no one batted an eyelid at that.

2011, agreed. That is just stupid. People seem to forget (or seriously hate) Lebron to not rate that 2012 run highly.

[Magic 32]

If Lebron's 09 run can make the list (22!), where is Kobe's 08 run.

Until the last 3 games of the finals, it was the best basketball he had ever played.

[Legends66NBA7]

Magic32, thanks. Future repped.

For the shorter version of the whole list and no detail, here you go:

1. 1991 Jordan
2. 2012 James
3. 2003 Duncan
4. 2000 O'Neal
5. 1993 Jordan
6. 2001 O'Neal
7. 1994 Olajuwon
8. 1983 Malone
9. 1984 Bird
10. 1986 Bird
11. 1999 Duncan
12. 2002 O'Neal
13. 2006 Wade
14. 1992 Jordan
15. 1980 Abdul-Jabbar
16. 1987 Johnson
17. 2009 Bryant
18. 1997 Jordan
19. 1981 Bird
20. 1996 Jordan
21. 2007 Duncan
22. 2009 James
23. 1980 Johnson
24. 1982 Johnson
25. 1998 Jordan
26. 1990 Thomas
27. 1986 Olajuwon
28. 1996 Pippen
29. 2005 Duncan
30. 1995 Olajuwon
31. 2001 Bryant
32. 1991 Pippen
33. 1993 Barkley
34. 2010 Bryant
35. 2012 Durant
36. 1990 Jordan
37. 2009 Howard
38. 1999 Robinson
39. 2007 James
40. 2006 Nowitzki
41. 2010 Gasol
42. 2004 O'Neal
43. 1978 Hayes
44. 2011 James
45. 1992 Pippen
46. 1989 Jordan
47. 1988 Worthy
48. 2005 Ginobili
49. 2011 Wade
50. 2011 Nowitzki


Some flat out terrible selections. I also see this formula is favoring the modern era too, as only 1 pre-1980 selection made the list (Hayes at #43) and I'm going to go out on limb that 78 Hayes wouldn't even make the Top 10 of a pre-modern playoff run list.

[Doranku]

Gasol 2010 over Magic 1988.
Pippen 1996 over Hakeem 1995.

Great list.

[R.I.P.]

26. Isiah Thomas, Pistons, 1990

Position: PG | Age: 29

Result: Won NBA Finals | Finals MVP

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
20 20.5 5.5 8.2 0.4 2.2 56.0 25.4

Not on list: Rajon Rondo

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
19 17.3 6.7 11.9 0.1 2.4 50.5 24.0

[TonyMontana]

41. Pau Gasol, Lakers, 2010

Position: PF | Age: 29

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 19.6 11.1 3.5 2.1 0.4 59.9 21.0

Few NBA Finals have sparked as much debate about MVP as 2010. When Bryant was shooting 6-of-24 in Game 7, Gasol had 19 points and 18 boards in the clincher. (In fairness, he shot 6-of-16 himself.) Bryant got the award, but Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP) favors Gasol, who averaged 18.6 points, 11.6 rebounds, 3.7 assists and 2.6 blocks per game against the Celtics. Gasol also had the better WARP total throughout the postseason -- the best of his career -- but Bryant edges him on these rankings because of the Finals MVP bonus.

Absolutely pathetic that Bryant won that award over Gasol. This is why media awards are a joke. Kobe wins the award because he had more of his little fanboys spamming the voting booth even though the stats show that Gasol was by far the superior player. :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

Pippen 1996 over Kobe 2001.

1996 Pippen over 2005 Duncan and 1995 Olajuwon too.

[Doranku]

1996 Pippen over 2005 Duncan and 1995 Olajuwon too.

Yeah, I saw that it was over 1995 Hakeem and edited it to replace Kobe w/ him.

I mean that's really all that needs to be said about this "stat". Arguably the greatest playoff run of all time is #30 on the list behind a player who was a clear second option and had a TS% of 47% during the playoffs which is absolutely atrocious.

It's just a very, very poor "stat" and an even worse way to measure individual playoff runs.

[bluechox2]

lebron being carried by 2 superstars is one of greatest?

[Lebron23]

30/9/8 againts the best defensive team, top 5 and 6 defensive team, and the 2nd best offensive team in the 2011-2012 NBA Season.

[Magic 32]

Absolutely pathetic that Bryant won that award over Gasol. This is why media awards are a joke. Kobe wins the award because he had more of his little fanboys spamming the voting booth even though the stats show that Gasol was by far the superior player. :oldlol:

Just go away.

I know they are working on a video on clublakers.com that will destroy this pathetic argument once and for all.

[TonyMontana]

Just go away.

I know they are working on a video on clublakers.com that will destroy this pathetic argument once and for all.

Guess that will give Kobes little fanboys who can't come up with an argument of their own something to spam when their getting destroyed by facts.

:oldlol:

[Magic 32]

Guess that will give Kobes little fanboys who can't come up with an argument of their own something to spam when their getting destroyed by facts.

:oldlol:

I think you know you are wrong.

and I helped with the video.

[Rysio]

lol at lebrick at #2 not only did he play against some of the worst competition in nba playoffs history he need the most stacked team of all time to win. as soon as one of the big 3 was out for a couple of games he got exposed and was getting beat by 50 year old celtics. ::applause:

[Magic 32]

Guess that will give Kobes little fanboys who can't come up with an argument of their own something to spam when their getting destroyed by facts.

:oldlol:

Game 1 MVP: Kobe>Pau
Game 2 MVP: Pau>Kobe
Game 3 MVP: Kobe>Pau
Game 4 MVP: Kobe>Pau
Game 5 MVP: Kobe>Pau
Game 6 MVP: Pau>Kobe
Game 7 MVP: Pau>Kobe

4-3 = Kobe

[AintNoSunshine]

Weak finals matchup?

a series that went 6 games is weaker than a series that went 5?

:lol
:oldlol:
:roll:

Your post defines stupidity. So longer series should be rewarded? I guess Shaq's 16-1 runs is the worst of all time, because matchup is the weakest?

:lol
:oldlol:
:roll:
:facepalm

[AintNoSunshine]

Game 1 MVP: Kobe>Pau
Game 2 MVP: Pau>Kobe
Game 3 MVP: Kobe>Pau
Game 4 MVP: Kobe>Pau
Game 5 MVP: Kobe>Pau
Game 6 MVP: Pau>Kobe
Game 7 MVP: Pau>Kobe

4-3 = Kobe


:roll: This thread is about the most dominant playoffs run, about guys like MJ, Shaq, Lebron, and you're here trying to prove kobe BARELY outplaying his sidekick?? :bowdown:

[Mr. Jabbar]

TonyMontana is like his movie idol, in his terminal phase, dudes very high on drugs with his agenda, but the end is coming, total collapse. Just like tony, only with no money nor girls :oldlol:

[Element]

This. Dirk was incredible. So underrated that run.

LeBron's 2012 run isn't even on 08 Kobe's WCF run level, or 09 Kobe's entire run

And it definitively ain't ever fukking one bit with MJ and Shaq

Zero chance

[Magic 32]

:roll: This thread is about the most dominant playoffs run, about guys like MJ, Shaq, Lebron, and you're here trying to prove kobe BARELY outplaying his sidekick?? :bowdown:

The "sidekick" is on the list as well.

[Nick Young]

LeBron's 2012 run isn't even on 08 Kobe's WCF run level, or 09 Kobe's entire run

And it definitively ain't ever fukking one bit with MJ and Shaq

Zero chance
ESPN is rewriting history, and idiots are falling for it.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Again, it's based on Kevin Pelton's WARP formula. He ranks the players based on WARP, and I think he added 1-full WARP if they won a championship and 0.5 WARP for a Finals MVP.

This list does make me seriously question WARP, though, although I'm pretty high on it when it comes to baseball.

I don't just question those formula stats, I disregard them altogether. And have pretty much since I started hearing about them.


It's pure marketing lol

Dirk 2011 run was easily better than brons 2012 run.. Bron had a more stacked team, easier competition, and was an overwhelming favorite in every series. Dirk and the Mavs were the opposite and balled out of their minds to win.

ESPN gotta get that money

I actually have Lebron's 2012 run ahead of Dirk's 2011 based on level of play. Granted, Dirk's was more impressive in context considering he's not held in the same regard as Lebron, and many had Dallas losing to Portland. I didn't, I had them beating Portland and losing to LA, though once they got past LA, I had them over OKC, but losing to Miami in the finals, especially after game 1.

[aj1987]

LeBron's 2012 run isn't even on 08 Kobe's WCF run level, or 09 Kobe's entire run
Lebron against the Pistons in '09 >>>>> Any Kobe Playoff series
32/11/8 on 50%

Lebron against the Pacers in 2012 - 30/11/6/3 on 50%

Lebron against the Celtics in 2012 - 34/11/4 on 53%

Lebron 2012 Playoffs - 30/10/6/2 on 50%

Kobe 2009 Playoffs - 30/5/6/2 on 46%

[AintNoSunshine]

[QUOTE=Element]LeBron's 2012 run isn't even on 08 Kobe's WCF run level, or 09 Kobe's entire run/QUOTE]
Lebron against the Pistons in '09 >>>>> Any Kobe Playoff series
32/11/8 on 50%

Lebron against the Pacers in 2012 - 30/11/6/3 on 50%

Lebron against the Celtics in 2012 - 34/11/4 on 53%

Lebron 2012 Playoffs - 30/10/6/2 on 50%

Kobe 2009 Playoffs - 30/5/6/2 on 46%


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: God-like

[ripthekik]

41. Pau Gasol, Lakers, 2010

Position: PF | Age: 29

Result: Won NBA Finals

GP PPG RPG APG BPG SPG TS% USG
23 19.6 11.1 3.5 2.1 0.4 59.9 21.0

Few NBA Finals have sparked as much debate about MVP as 2010. When Bryant was shooting 6-of-24 in Game 7, Gasol had 19 points and 18 boards in the clincher. (In fairness, he shot 6-of-16 himself.) Bryant got the award, but Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP) favors Gasol, who averaged 18.6 points, 11.6 rebounds, 3.7 assists and 2.6 blocks per game against the Celtics. Gasol also had the better WARP total throughout the postseason -- the best of his career -- but Bryant edges him on these rankings because of the Finals MVP bonus.

Absolutely pathetic that Bryant won that award over Gasol. This is why media awards are a joke. Kobe wins the award because he had more of his little fanboys spamming the voting booth even though the stats show that Gasol was by far the superior player. :oldlol:
How sad are you that you have to bold your posts because you know no one else would read them? :oldlol:

I agree with you that media awards are a joke. MVP's = media voted awards :facepalm :facepalm

[Element]

You do realize that Bron Bron's 30 ppg @ 50% last year was essentially on the same efficiency as Kobe's 30 ppg in 2009 @ 46%, right? Welcome to calculating efficiency, where Free throws and Three pointers exist also...

Also, Kobe went through a stack-ed ass conference...LeBron went through a rofl-worthy injury riddled Celtics, an awful Knicks team and a Pacers team that had no business not being swept. LeBron's defense in the playoffs didn't matter much, also. KD got his 30ppg, Pierce had been sucking before as well, same with Granger and Melo was guarded by Battier.

Kobe locked up D-Will, played firefighter on Chauncey and Melo, played incredible help on D12 and made Hedo etc look like dummies

Kobe in 09 was at the very least equal and most likely better than LeBron 12 PO

Kobe's impact and level of play during that run was incredible. Nuggets literally looked helpless, they could not stop him because he either torched their ass at the most opportune time (G1 anyone? G6?), always made the right pass and frustrated their perimeter stars.

[Harison]

Weak list, author should try better next time.

[Ne 1]

(G1 anyone? G6?).


That Game 6 was a masterful performance. Seemed like everyone thought the Lakers were going to loss to Denver on the road, and Kobe ended their dream season with 35/6/10 on 60% shooting from the field, 50% from 3 and 9-9 at the line.

[guy]

Wow, I don't agree that Lebron should be #2, but wow there's some overreaction here. Biggest joke ever? Shouldn't even touch top 10? Dirk's 2011 was better? He put up 30/10/6 with elite defense, had two of the greatest playoff performances ever, and outplayed the 2nd best player in the league and the next 3 best players at his position. I would say the only ones I've seen that are definitely better are Jordan's first 3, Hakeem's 2, and Shaq's first 2. Its better then everything else or debateable with it, and either way I wouldn't say there's any playoff run thats miles ahead of it. Once again, people are really overstating how rich of a history the league has.

And yes, I realize its based on WARP, so I don't definitely don't agree with the logic, and as a result I disagree strongly with the list. Just saying, Lebron's 2012 run was still one of the greatest ever regardless. Its not like we're talking about his current playoff run, which I would say really hasn't been that great.

[Clutch]

Dirk 2011 > LeBron 2012
this :applause:

[tpols]

Wow, I don't agree that Lebron should be #2, but wow there's some overreaction here. Biggest joke ever? Shouldn't even touch top 10? Dirk's 2011 was better? He put up 30/10/6 with elite defense, had two of the greatest playoff performances ever, and outplayed the 2nd best player in the league and the next 3 best players at his position. I would say the only ones I've seen that are definitely better are Jordan's first 3, Hakeem's 2, and Shaq's first 2. Its better then everything else or debateable with it, and either way I wouldn't say there's any playoff run thats miles ahead of it. Once again, people are really overstating how rich of a history the league has.

And yes, I realize its based on WARP, so I don't definitely don't agree with the logic, and as a result I disagree strongly with the list. Just saying, Lebron's 2012 run was still one of the greatest ever regardless. Its not like we're talking about his current playoff run, which I would say really hasn't been that great.
His competition in the east was a joke.. Indy, New York, and old Celtics. You're not accounting for that at all. Thunder were legit competition.. too bad refs took Durant out at critical points in games following game 1. But they were the only competition.

Dirk played better against the Thunder than Lebron did the year prior and he was the catalyst for winning the finals against bron + his superior supporting cast when he went off in crunchtime and bron folded in crunchtime.

Dirk had to face a portland team with aldridge and roy going OFF.. than Bynum-Gasol-Kobe, then Durant-Westbrook, then Wade-Lebron-Bosh.. and he was BURYING teams straight winning whole games for the Mavs. The way Dirk plays, hell give you a few minutes of unstoppable offense that allows his team to build a lead, or if its at the end of the game, win the game. NOBODY could stop him back then.

Dirk had 45 points on THIRTEEN shots against OKC in that one game.. a better more dominant individual performance than Bron ever had in 2012(yes better than game 6). And Dirk vdid it mainly off the ball and in 5 seconds or less if he caught it in the high post. It allowed his teammates to get burn and flourish. Of course he couldnt accumulate the same stats not holding the ball for 10x the amount Lebron James did.

[tpols]

Guy, this list has 2011 Lebron's playoff run over Dirk's.:oldlol:

This isnt some minor eh it could go either way.. they have Dirk's 11 run at 50, and brons 2012 run at 2.. Youre really gonna tell me the runs are that far apart? There is a good case for dirk's run being better given the CONTEXT.. who he beat and how he beat them. Inferior supporting cast + harder competition + head to head domination of Lebron James himself the year prior.

[guy]

His competition in the east was a joke.. Indy, New York, and old Celtics. You're not accounting for that at all. Thunder were legit competition.. too bad refs took Durant out at critical points in games following game 1. But they were the only competition.

Dirk played better against the Thunder than Lebron did the year prior and he was the catalyst for winning the finals against bron + his superior supporting cast when he went off in crunchtime and bron folded in crunchtime.

Dirk had to face a portland team with aldridge and roy going OFF.. than Bynum-Gasol-Kobe, then Durant-Westbrook, then Wade-Lebron-Bosh.. and he was BURYING teams straight winning whole games for the Mavs. The way Dirk plays, hell give you a few minutes of unstoppable offense that allows his team to build a lead, or if its at the end of the game, win the game. NOBODY could stop him back then.

Dirk had 45 points on THIRTEEN shots against OKC in that one game.. a better more dominant individual performance than Bron ever had in 2012(yes better than game 6). And Dirk vdid it mainly off the ball and in 5 seconds or less if he caught it in the high post. It allowed his teammates to get burn and flourish. Of course he couldnt accumulate the same stats not holding the ball for 10x the amount Lebron James did.

Don't really see how it was a joke. New York was your average low seed first round team, in fact maybe considerably better then that since it actually looked like they were playing up to their potential after D'Antoni was fired. Pacers weren't great, I'll give you that, but the Heat were missing their third best player for basically the whole series. Celtics were legit i.e. great old veteran team with 4 potential HOFers that takes the regular season and lesser competition lightly, but can turn it on and give anyone a competitive series, which is what they have done every single season since they big 3 got together. I wouldn't say it was the greatest competition ever or better then Dirk's, but it wasn't a joke.

Dirk didn't really do much in that playoff run but score. Doesn't make it not an all-time great run, but I have a hard time saying it was better then Lebron's who contributed to every aspect of the game, and was arguably even a better scorer then Dirk in 2011.

[CeltsGarlic]

Damn, theyre pushing lebron way too hard. They are doing J Lin with him. Soon everyone will hate him.

What dirk did in 2011 was absolutely amazing.

[guy]

Guy, this list has 2011 Lebron's playoff run over Dirk's.:oldlol:

This isnt some minor eh it could go either way.. they have Dirk's 11 run at 50, and brons 2012 run at 2.. Youre really gonna tell me the runs are that far apart? There is a good case for dirk's run being better given the CONTEXT.. who he beat and how he beat them. Inferior supporting cast + harder competition + head to head domination of Lebron James himself the year prior.

I said I disagree strongly with the list and the logic behind it. I just think that some of the responses to the idea that Lebron's run was one of the greatest ever are a bit ridiculous and just sounds alot like people automatically overrating history and discounting the recent past.

[AirFederer]

His competition in the east was a joke.. Indy, New York, and old Celtics. You're not accounting for that at all. Thunder were legit competition.. too bad refs took Durant out at critical points in games following game 1. But they were the only competition.

Dirk played better against the Thunder than Lebron did the year prior and he was the catalyst for winning the finals against bron + his superior supporting cast when he went off in crunchtime and bron folded in crunchtime.

Dirk had to face a portland team with aldridge and roy going OFF.. than Bynum-Gasol-Kobe, then Durant-Westbrook, then Wade-Lebron-Bosh.. and he was BURYING teams straight winning whole games for the Mavs. The way Dirk plays, hell give you a few minutes of unstoppable offense that allows his team to build a lead, or if its at the end of the game, win the game. NOBODY could stop him back then.

Dirk had 45 points on THIRTEEN shots against OKC in that one game.. a better more dominant individual performance than Bron ever had in 2012(yes better than game 6). And Dirk vdid it mainly off the ball and in 5 seconds or less if he caught it in the high post. It allowed his teammates to get burn and flourish. Of course he couldnt accumulate the same stats not holding the ball for 10x the amount Lebron James did.


This.

Dirk:bowdown:

ESPN needs to get off of Lebrons cawk to clear space for the ISH stans :rockon:

I`d put Lebron`s performance among top 25

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Is it just me or is Dirk's 2011 Finals overrated? He had a great playoff run until the Finals but he wasn't all that great in the Finals. Wade was the best player that series.

Dirk scored 26 ppg on 41.6% while Wade scored 26.5 ppg on 54.6%. And I don't agree with the Lebron being number 2, but I definitely think he should be above Dirk in 2011.

[tpols]

Don't really see how it was a joke. New York was your average low seed first round team, in fact maybe considerably better then that since it actually looked like they were playing up to their potential after D'Antoni was fired. Pacers weren't great, I'll give you that, but the Heat were missing their third best player for basically the whole series. Celtics were legit i.e. great old veteran team with 4 potential HOFers that takes the regular season and lesser competition lightly, but can turn it on and give anyone a competitive series, which is what they have done every single season since they big 3 got together. I wouldn't say it was the greatest competition ever or better then Dirk's, but it wasn't a joke.

Dirk didn't really do much in that playoff run but score. Doesn't make it not an all-time great run, but I have a hard time saying it was better then Lebron's who contributed to every aspect of the game, and was arguably even a better scorer then Dirk in 2011.
New York was a MESS back then.. that was the year amare broke his hand on a fire extinguisher:roll: Tyson was hurt.. it was literally Melo chucking up shots all game playing with straight scrubs since his two next best players were either dumbasses, Amare, or hurt, Tyson. That was a circus show.

Indy? Joke.. And dont give me his third option was out lol He had Wade going off for 40+ points in critical games.. 26ppg on 47% shooting from your second option for the entire series against the pacers.

Boston was decent, ECF material not really. Dirk faced the Thunder in his WCF a much much higher quality opponent and he buried them with two 40 point games and some of the most ridiculous clutchness ever in 5 games.. less than what it took the Heat to beat Boston in their ECF.

Your argument that all Dirk did was score is garbage because he dominated games with his scoring and won the team so many matches with it.

In basketball, theres overall play that accumulates stats throughout games.. like Lebron will score consistently throughout games, hell keep hitting his 3 pt shooters and hell rebound hard all game, but aside from his game 6 against boston and a few games in the finals where his shooters were going off on his passing, he tends to accumulate stats throughout the game in a fairly steady manner. He doesnt explode for dominant stretches that put teams away single-handedly all that often. We see him do it from time to time, but even in the 2011 Finals he was recording triple doubles in less than stellar performances.. even in this years finals hes been on triple double alert while never dominating anything. Lebron accumulates stats in a spread out manner that are much more easily replaceable..

Dirk was giving his team stretches of scoring where he was literally unstoppable.. burying teams with play after play where they couldnt stop him.

In game 1 against the thunder where his Mavs defense gave up 112 points, Dirk used 27 possesions. He scored on 24 of them. It was sheer dominance.. Shaq like over and over scoring to put teams out. Not a layup here a shot there adding up over 4 quarters. It was explosive scoring that wins games.

[K Xerxes]

Is it just me or is Dirk's 2011 Finals overrated? He had a great playoff run until the Finals but he wasn't all that great in the Finals. Wade was the best player that series.

Dirk scored 26 ppg on 41.6% while Wade scored 26.5 ppg on 54.6%. And I don't agree with the Lebron being number 2, but I definitely think he should be above Dirk in 2011.

Yes, it is ridiculously overrated on this board.

[dh144498]

Oohhhhhh ....now yall recognize Shaq as MDE ? :applause:

he doesn't have to be the MDE to have had a run better than LEbron's. What is this logic?

[Ass Dan]

Pretty thorough examination, see the full article here here. (http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9357345/greatest-individual-postseasons-1-5)

Author's top 5

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1011/grantland_g_jordan_gb1_576.jpg

1. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1991

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0531/nba_2lebron_576.jpg

2. LeBron James, Heat, 2012

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0609/nba_g_duncan01jr_576.jpg

3. Tim Duncan, Spurs, 2003

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0606/nba_a_shaqts_576.jpg

4. Shaquille O'Neal, Lakers, 2000

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0531/nba_5jordan_576.jpg

5. Michael Jordan, Bulls, 1993

EDIT they also included #6 in the ''free'' portion of the article (ESPN insider)

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0531/nba_6oneal_576.jpg

6. Shaquille O'Neal, Lakers, 2001


Discuss.

Kobe = GOAT

[guy]

New York was a MESS back then.. that was the year amare broke his hand on a fire extinguisher:roll: Tyson was hurt.. it was literally Melo chucking up shots all game playing with straight scrubs since his two next best players were either dumbasses, Amare, or hurt, Tyson. That was a circus show.

Indy? Joke.. And dont give me his third option was out lol He had Wade going off for 40+ points in critical games.. 26ppg on 47% shooting from your second option for the entire series against the pacers.

Boston was decent, ECF material not really. Dirk faced the Thunder in his WCF a much much higher quality opponent and he buried them with two 40 point games and some of the most ridiculous clutchness ever in 5 games.. less than what it took the Heat to beat Boston in their ECF.

Your argument that all Dirk did was score is garbage because he dominated games with his scoring and won the team so many matches with it.

In basketball, theres overall play that accumulates stats throughout games.. like Lebron will score consistently throughout games, hell keep hitting his 3 pt shooters and hell rebound hard all game, but aside from his game 6 against boston and a few games in the finals where his shooters were going off on his passing, he tends to accumulate stats throughout the game in a fairly steady manner. He doesnt explode for dominant stretches that put teams away single-handedly all that often. We see him do it from time to time, but even in the 2011 Finals he was recording triple doubles in less than stellar performances.. even in this years finals hes been on triple double alert while never dominating anything. Lebron accumulates stats in a spread out manner that are much more easily replaceable..

Dirk was giving his team stretches of scoring where he was literally unstoppable.. burying teams with play after play where they couldnt stop him.

In game 1 against the thunder where his Mavs defense gave up 112 points, Dirk used 27 possesions. He scored on 24 of them. It was sheer dominance.. Shaq like over and over scoring to put teams out. Not a layup here a shot there adding up over 4 quarters. It was explosive scoring that wins games.

Assess the competition round by round.

2011 Blazers vs. 2012 Knicks - Blazers
2011 Lakers vs. 2012 Pacers - Lakers
2011 Thunder vs. 2012 Celtics - Celtics (Sorry, I completely disagree. in a hypothetical matchup the veteran Celtics would've beaten the young, immature Thunder, just like the veteran Mavs did. In fact, you can argue that they were the best team out of all 8 of these teams given Lebron's weak mentality in 2011 and the Thunder still being somewhat young and immature in 2012)
2011 Heat vs. 2012 Thunder - Thunder (If Lebron is going to shrink like he did, cleary the 2012 Thunder were harder competition)

So, 2-2. I don't see much of a difference.

Now, I don't really understand the big difference between one just putting the opposition out of a game through one stretch of domination, while the other does it steadily throughout the game.

The argument that all Dirk did was score isn't garbage, its close to true. Its one thing if Lebron wasn't scoring as well, but thats not the case. Dirk simply wasn't relied upon as much as Lebron was nor was he capable of it. Its one of the same reasons you can't put Dirk's up there with some, if not all, of the title runs of Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, etc. They just did more. I'd understand if Lebron's overall box score was better but he then constantly choked at the end of games like he did in the 2011 Finals. Thats not the case though.

Like another poster said, Dirk's is better when it comes to how it relates to his overall expectations. That doesn't actually mean it was better.

[tpols]

Assess the competition round by round.

2011 Blazers vs. 2012 Knicks - Blazers
2011 Lakers vs. 2012 Pacers - Lakers
2011 Thunder vs. 2012 Celtics - Celtics (Sorry, I completely disagree. in a hypothetical matchup the veteran Celtics would've beaten the young, immature Thunder, just like the veteran Mavs did.)
2011 Heat vs. 2012 Thunder - Thunder (If Lebron is going to shrink like he did, cleary the 2012 Thunder were harder competition)

So, 2-2. I don't see the difference.

holy shit.. you cant even be serious. Inexperienced Thunder team? That team had already been to the playoffs as a core and was a serious contender. They were infinitely more talented than Boston and EASILY better competition. This is such a joke.:oldlol:

And then you turn around and say the Thunder the very next year are better than the fvcking HEAT?? After saying a single year prior they werent even as good as the Celtics.

Im sorry nothing you say can be taken even remotely seriously.

Not even conceeding the massive difference in competition throughout the playoffs.. 2-2 lol. Kindly GTFO.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

holy shit.. you cant even be serious. Inexperienced Thunder team? That team had already been to the playoffs as a core and was a serious contender. They were infinitely more talented than Boston and EASILY better competition. This is such a joke.:oldlol:

And then you turn around and say the Thunder the very next year are better than the fvcking HEAT?? After saying a single year prior they werent even as good as the Celtics.

Im sorry nothing you say can be taken even remotely seriously.

Not even conceeding the massive difference in competition throughout the playoffs.. 2-2 lol. Kindly GTFO.

A little reading comprehension will get you far in life. He said the Celtics were better than the 2011 Finals version of the Heat where Lebron was practically non-existent.

[ErhnamDjinn]

Dirk 2011 > LeBron 2012
this that run was a Cinderella story as you can possibly get,I believe each and every playoff run so called experts voted for the other team, no one gave them a chance. They also played the light side and took down the evil empire that was the Heat hehehe :applause:

[HurricaneKid]

WARP is calculated by the set of data from a series of information. So a guy that hits a game winning shot doesn't get any more credit for it than hitting a 1st qtr shot. Dirk shot 42% in the 11 Finals and was the team's 7th best 3 pt shooter. He did work down the stretch but it was his supporting cast hitting 47% from 3 that won the series (on paper anyhow). So yeah, Dirk's run isn't close to comparable to LeBron's run last year and diminished because he isn't given credit for his clutch play.

I trust this also means LeBron 09 is well above Kobe 09 too.

WARP is also affected by pace of play and game totals. So LeBron going for 45/5/5 in a game where the opposing team scores 79 points is far more impressive than scoring 63 in a game that ends 135-131.

And lets be honest, he had one helluva run. Place is overflowing with haters.

[tpols]

A little reading comprehension will get you far in life. He said the Celtics were better than the 2011 Finals version of the Heat where Lebron was practically non-existent.
Yea I read what he said.. and he said the 2012 THUNDER were better than the 2011 heat not the Celtics. If youre gonna try to correct me get it right pal.

And the whole post was a joke. The difference in competition in the first two rounds was enormous, and Mavs also had better conference finals and finals competition. Lebron choked.. doesnt mean they werent an incredibly dominant team up to that point. You can judge a team after the fact on a few games where they were outplayed to asses their overall strength. Thats retarded.

[2010splash]

It doesn'thave a case for #2. I'd take 2000 or 2001 Shaq, EASILY (as you would put it), over '12 LeBron. I'd take almost any iteration of first 3-peat Jordan's run over '12 LeBron almost solely based on how legendary Jordan was in all 3 Finals. I'd also take '95 Hakeem over '12 LeBron without hesitation. LeBron has a case for top 5-10, but you're overselling his run last year, and you're way overselling it when you say it's "easily" #2 like you originally stated.
Of course it does. Shaq 2000 is arguable at best, and it’s simply idiotic to rank his 2001 over LeBron 2012. Shaq needed the help of a 30/7/6 #2 option to win 2001. In 2000, he wasn’t even the most instrumental player in leading his team to the Game 7 comeback against Portland. Kobe OUTPLAYED Shaq in Game 7 when it mattered most. :roll: LeBron’s is #3 at the very worst, with a strong argument for #2. Saying it’s top 5-10 is pure lunacy. Shaq's playoff stats are not one bit better than LeBron's. And mentioning Hakeem, Kobe, Duncan or Bird in this conversation is just nonsensical.


Sure, Duncan never approached some made up stat, but he completely dominated the 2003 playoffs in every facet of the game. He only ended the Lakers run of 3 straight finals with a 37/16 in the clinching game, clinched the championship with a 21/20/10/8 game and led his team in scoring, rebounding, assists and blocks throughout the playoffs at 25/15/5/3 while playing dominant defense. But yeah, PER matters more than that. :rolleyes:
So what? LeBron led his team in every category and had more impressive raw stats than Duncan while having the single greatest playoff game in NBA history. Duncan never did anything like Game 6 2012 ECF. And made up stat? Last I checked, Hollinger and his “made up stat” have found themselves a gig as VP of basketball operations on an actual NBA team that was highly successful. Others are following suit as well. But you know more than Hollinger, right?


:oldlol: Shaq's competition was a joke? The 2000 Blazers were EASILY better than any team Lebron faced in 2012. Portland was the consensus most talented team in the league that year and extremely balanced, both offensively and defensively.
2000 Blazers were a joke. The third best player on the 2012 Thunder was at least as good as their best player. Durant and Westbrook are waaaaay better than anyone on those Blazers. It was a team loaded with super role players, a WC version of the 2004 Pistons.


You're talking about Shaq's help in 2000 because he had Kobe? Kobe was 21 and had a 21/5/4, 44%, while Wade had a 23/5/4, 46% postseason. Granted, Kobe was a better defender, but Wade was the more mature player.
A wash then.


And Bosh? Where the hell was Shaq's Chris Bosh? Lebron had a 3rd guy who has now made 8 all-star teams in a row, Shaq didn't have a 3rd guy who was even near all-star level in 2000. As a matter of fact, Lebron's 2nd, 3rd and 4th leading scorers in the 2012 playoffs all scored more than Shaq's 2nd, 3rd and 4th guys.
Yeah, an 8-time all star who missed the entire second round and whose only meaningful contribution in the ECF was in Game 7. So essentially a non-factor in pretty much all of the second and third rounds. Rice/Harper/Horry in 2000 were better than Chalmers/Battier/Miller in 2012.


If Lebron "dragged" a team to a championship in 2012, then what exactly did Shaq do in 2000?
You mean a guy who scored 18 points in the Game 7 elimination at home vs. Portland? :oldlol:


Then again, it's obvious you weren't watching basketball at the time, otherwise you would have known how good Portland was considered and that everyone was looking ahead to what was expected to be a great series between LA and Portland, and it was.
Doesn’t matter what everyone expected it to be. Everyone expected the 2013 Lakers to be juggernauts, the 2004 Lakers to approach the 72-win record, the 2007 Mavs to get out of the first round, etc. That’s a terrible reason to consider them to be some incredible team. One simple look at their roster shows you how overrated that team was. Zero top-level talent and an entire roster full of good role players is what is was.


Besides, that Indiana team was no joke. It's true that the Lakers were the clear favorites, but Indiana had played in the conference finals the 2 previous years(including '98 when they took Jordan's Bulls to 7) and were a very well-built team, particularly their starting lineup. They had two perimeter scorers capable of 20 per game(which they both exceeded in the playoffs) with one being the off the ball scorer(Miller) and the other being more of a 1 on 1 scorer(Rose) and the pass first point guard in Mark Jackson. They had a post scorer in Smits, as well as the more physical banger Dale Davis who covered up Smits deficiencies with his defense and rebounding while improving his offense to the point that he could clean up about 10 ppg in 30 or so mpg. They also had threats coming off the bench in Travis Best, a scoring point guard to give them a different look from Jackson and Austin Croshere, a versatile stretch 4 and hustle player whose play that postseason got him a nice contract. Indiana was also the best 3 point shooting team in the league.
Indiana was a joke Finals team compared to Oklahoma City. The Pacers were expected to get mauled. The Heat weren’t even viewed as favorites by most pundits at the time of the Finals. Everyone was riding the OKC bandwagon and thought it would be a competitive series. LeBron, however, led his team to a 5-game rape of the Thunder. Shaq struggled to beat a sh-t Finals team. LeBron destroyed an insanely stacked Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka team. Shaq played jokers compared to the 2012 Thunder. If you want to argue for Shaq, the last thing you should do is bring up the competition he faced.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Yea I read what he said.. and he said the 2012 THUNDER were better than the 2011 heat not the Celtics. If youre gonna try to correct me get it right pal.

And the whole post was a joke. The difference in competition in the first two rounds was enormous, and Mavs also had better conference finals and finals competition. Lebron choked.. doesnt mean they werent an incredibly dominant team up to that point. You can judge a team after the fact on a few games where they were outplayed to asses their overall strength. Thats retarded.

Yes. Until the finals, they were dominant because Lebron was playing up to his standards. He's talking about the Heat from the Finals, not the Bulls series or any other series prior.

[guy]

holy shit.. you cant even be serious. Inexperienced Thunder team? That team had already been to the playoffs as a core and was a serious contender. They were infinitely more talented than Boston and EASILY better competition. This is such a joke.:oldlol:

And then you turn around and say the Thunder the very next year are better than the fvcking HEAT?? After saying a single year prior they werent even as good as the Celtics.

Im sorry nothing you say can be taken even remotely seriously.

Not even conceeding the massive difference in competition throughout the playoffs.. 2-2 lol. Kindly GTFO.

HUH? What exactly did I say that was wrong?

2012 Celtics > 2011 Thunder? The 2011 Thunder were inexperienced. It was their first year out of the first round. What the **** are you talking about? They took out their starting all-star PG for the backup in critical moments of the series because he was questionable in running an offense, which he still was a year later by the way. You think a team like the 2012 Celtics wouldn't be able to capitalize against a team with problems like that??????

2012 Thunder > 2011 Heat? Yes, if Lebron plays like a ****ing zombie, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

The very next year, the Heat and Thunder got better. OMG WTF, a year later two teams, including one of the youngest in the league, grew and got better with maturity and experience, what a RIDICULOUS ****ING THING TO SAY :wtf: :eek: :rolleyes: :oldlol:

Come up with better shit to overreact to :oldlol: .

[tpols]

Yes. Until the finals, they were dominant because Lebron was playing up to his standards. He's talking about the Heat from the Finals, not the Bulls series or any other series prior.
They were outplayed by the Mavs.. Bron choked while Dirk did the opposite. Doesnt mean you judge the team based on a 4 game sample from the fourth quarter of game 2 where the epic collapse took place til the end of the series.

They were a brutal team all year.. Bosh was a legit 19/9 player, Wade a 25/5/5 second option and Lebron was Lebron. He choked under the big lights and ENORMOUS expectations being that his squad was so heavily favored because they were a much better team. They got squashed by a team with superior heart and leadership a lot stemming from Dirk's heroics and the faith he inspired in his teammates.. while bron did the exact opposite and tucked tail. That was still a very tough series for Dallas to pull out because of how much raw talent Miami had over them.

Even more the reason to give Dirks run the nod seeing as how he shit on Bron and his team head to head.. on top of having to go through much better competition throughout his whole run.

[tpols]

HUH? What exactly did I say that was wrong?

2012 Celtics > 2011 Thunder? The 2011 Thunder were inexperienced. It was their first year out of the first round. What the **** are you talking about? They took out their starting all-star PG for the backup in critical moments of the series because he was questionable in running an offense, which he still was a year later by the way. You think a team like the 2012 Celtics wouldn't be able to capitalize against a team with problems like that??????

2012 Thunder > 2011 Heat? Yes, if Lebron plays like a ****ing zombie, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

The very next year, the Heat and Thunder got better. OMG WTF, a year later two teams, including one of the youngest in the league, grew and got better with maturity and experience, what a RIDICULOUS ****ING THING TO SAY :wtf: :eek: :rolleyes: :oldlol:

Come up with better shit to overreact to :oldlol: .
Youre a joke dude.. make a thread comparing Dallas 11 competition vs heat 12 competition youll get laughed out of it.:oldlol:

[Lebron23]

2012 Thunder was a formidable opponent they swept the defending NBA Champion The Dallas Mavericks in the first round (Dallas became a weaker defensive team after Chandler signed with the Knicks), beat a good Lakers team in the 2nd round (4-1), and came back from a 0-2 deficit againts a good Spurs team.

They only won 1 game againts Miami in the NBA Finals. 2012 LeBron puts up far superior numbers than 2011 Nowitzki in the playoffs and NBA Finals.

[guy]

Youre a joke dude.. make a thread comparing Dallas 11 competition vs heat 12 competition youll get laughed out of it.:oldlol:

Right, by incredibly smart posters like you that can't fathom the thought of teams being better one year vs. another year. :oldlol:

[tpols]

Right, by incredibly smart posters like you that can't fathom the thought of teams being better one year vs. another year. :oldlol:
Make the thread.. I dont want to embarrass you. I want you to see for yourself.

2-2

:oldlol:

You are a retard lol

[HoopsFanNumero1]

They were outplayed by the Mavs.. Bron choked while Dirk did the opposite. Doesnt mean you judge the team based on a 4 game sample from the fourth quarter of game 2 where the epic collapse took place til the end of the series.

They were a brutal team all year.. Bosh was a legit 19/9 player, Wade a 25/5/5 second option and Lebron was Lebron. He choked under the big lights and ENORMOUS expectations being that his squad was so heavily favored because they were a much better team. They got squashed by a team with superior heart and leadership a lot stemming from Dirk's heroics and the faith he inspired in his teammates.. while bron did the exact opposite and tucked tail. That was still a very tough series for Dallas to pull out because of how much raw talent Miami had over them.

Even more the reason to give Dirks run the nod seeing as how he shit on Bron and his team head to head.. on top of having to go through much better competition throughout his whole run.

I'm not even gonna bother with that bs. And how exactly did Dirk "shit" on Lebron? People love fabricating these stories. Dirk had nothing to with Lebron's performance. Dirk was actually pretty mediocre throughout the Finals.

[guy]

Make the thread.. I dont want to embarrass you. I want you to see for yourself.

2-2

:oldlol:

You are a retard lol

The dude that thinks experience doesn't mean anything calls me a retard :oldlol:

The dude that refers to talent as the reason for the 2011 Thunder being better then the 2012 Celtics, ignoring the fact that the 2011 Mavs beat the 2011 Thunder and Heat despite being less talented calls me a retard. :oldlol:

I'm so embarrassed buddy :oldlol: .

[2010splash]

2012 Thunder was a formidable opponent they swept the defending NBA Champion and One hit Wonder Dallas MaBricks (they became a $hittier defensive team after Chandler signed with the Knicks), beat a good Lakers team in the 2nd round (4-1), and came back from a 0-2 deficit againts a good Spurs team.

They only won 1 game againts Miami in the NBA Finals. 2012 LeBron puts up far superior numbers than 2011 Nowitzki in the playoffs and NBA Finals.You tell them son. People on here seriously arguing that the 2000 Blazers were better than the 2012 Thunder. :roll: :roll:

Then arguing Dirk 2011 had a better run than LeBron 2012 when his stats are worse at literally every category basically and he has absolutely no impact on their defense at all. :facepalm :facepalm Like I said, #3 at worst with a strong case for #2.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Of course it does. Shaq 2000 is arguable at best, and it’s simply idiotic to rank his 2001 over LeBron 2012. Shaq needed the help of a 30/7/6 #2 option to win 2001.

The 2001 team went 15-1, a playoff record. It's not like Shaq was carrying a light load either. You like stats so much, here's one. Shaq averaged 30/15 for that playoff run, only the 3rd time it's ever been done over at least 15 games or a trip to the finals. The other 2? Kareem in '74 and Shaq the previous year in 2000. He also became the first player in NBA history with back to back 40/20 games, in addition to a 40/20 game followed up with a near quadruple double(which was also a 20/20 game) in the finals vs the DPOY and a top 5 defensive team no less.


So what? LeBron led his team in every category and had more impressive raw stats than Duncan while having the single greatest playoff game in NBA history. Duncan never did anything like Game 6 2012 ECF. And made up stat? Last I checked, Hollinger and his “made up stat” have found themselves a gig as VP of basketball operations on an actual NBA team that was highly successful. Others are following suit as well. But you know more than Hollinger, right?

Yet Duncan's defense was on another level, and I wouldn't even necessarily give Lebron the statistical edge. 30/10/6 is great, but so is 25/15/5/3. And yeah, PER is a made up stat. Just all the stats we always had mashed up into one with subjective values and adjustments based on Hollinger's opinion.


2000 Blazers were a joke. The third best player on the 2012 Thunder was at least as good as their best player. Durant and Westbrook are waaaaay better than anyone on those Blazers. It was a team loaded with super role players, a WC version of the 2004 Pistons.

You've already been exposed as a troll account, and even if you weren't, posts like this would have made it clear. Oh, and those 2004 Pistons were champions and got to game 7 of the finals the following year. Also a better team than the 2012 Thunder, quite clearly actually.


Yeah, an 8-time all star who missed the entire second round and whose only meaningful contribution in the ECF was in Game 7. So essentially a non-factor in pretty much all of the second and third rounds. Rice/Harper/Horry in 2000 were better than Chalmers/Battier/Miller in 2012.

Still much better than the Lakers 3rd guy who was post-elbow surgery Glen Rice who was declining fast at that point. Put up 12/4/2, 41% for the playoffs and really didn't make an impact since he was benched late in games throughout the year(most famously in the finals when his wife called out Phil) for not moving without the ball and failing to fit into the triangle as well as being a defensive liability.


You mean a guy who scored 18 points in the Game 7 elimination at home vs. Portland? :oldlol:

Probably his worst game of the playoffs, yet he still had 9 points in the 4th quarter comeback while making some big defensive plays and setting up the shooters for open shots that also proved to be huge.


Doesn’t matter what everyone expected it to be. Everyone expected the 2013 Lakers to be juggernauts, the 2004 Lakers to approach the 72-win record, the 2007 Mavs to get out of the first round, etc. That’s a terrible reason to consider them to be some incredible team. One simple look at their roster shows you how overrated that team was. Zero top-level talent and an entire roster full of good role players is what is was.

One simple look at the roster shows how stacked they were. Sheed, Pippen, Steve Smith, Sabonis, Damon Stoudamire, Detlef Schrempf, Bonzi Wells, Brian Grant and Greg Anthony. They're as good an example of a stacked team as you'll find.

In fact, they added Pippen, Steve Smith and Detlef Schrempf to a team that was in the WCF the year before while really subtracting only Isaiah Rider(not known as a winning player) in addition to Sheed having a breakout season.

Blazers were the most talented team in the league that year and they had some match up problems vs Portland. Sheed feasted on AC Green's corpse in the post, and Horry could handle him either, while Pippen was assigned to Harper since he was not a threat offensively for the sole purpose of doubling Shaq on the catch with not only Pippen as the best perimeter help defender in the league, but Sabonis as the one guy as big as Shaq who could prevent him from getting good position as frequently as usual.

I'd love to see Lebron vs that type of defense and defensive attention.


Indiana was a joke Finals team compared to Oklahoma City. The Pacers were expected to get mauled. The Heat weren’t even viewed as favorites by most pundits at the time of the Finals. Everyone was riding the OKC bandwagon and thought it would be a competitive series. LeBron, however, led his team to a 5-game rape of the Thunder. Shaq struggled to beat a sh-t Finals team. LeBron destroyed an insanely stacked Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka team. Shaq played jokers compared to the 2012 Thunder. If you want to argue for Shaq, the last thing you should do is bring up the competition he faced.

Indiana was an exceptionally well-built, battle-tested team with arguably more offensive firepower than any team in the league that season. They were certainly on par with the 2012 Thunder as a team. Maybe not as far as star talent, but as far as being a very good team.

Anyone with half a brain knows Lebron had more help in 2012 than Shaq did in 2000 and faced worse competition.

[shortsoptional]

I like the explanation given for Hakeems 95 run being ranked so low.


So why does 1995 rate so much lower? Olajuwon wasn't the same defensive presence, blocking shots about 20 percent less frequently than in 1994.

Because blocks are the determining factor in defense. :facepalm

[Ne 1]

Shaq needed the help of a 30/7/6 #2 option to win 2001.

And LeBron needed the help of a 24/5/4 # 2 option+ the help of a 15/8 #3 option to win in 2012.


[QUOTE]In 2000, he wasn

[dh144498]

The 2001 team went 15-1, a playoff record. It's not like Shaq was carrying a light load either. You like stats so much, here's one. Shaq averaged 30/15 for that playoff run, only the 3rd time it's ever been done over at least 15 games or a trip to the finals. The other 2? Kareem in '74 and Shaq the previous year in 2000. He also became the first player in NBA history with back to back 40/20 games, in addition to a 40/20 game followed up with a near quadruple double(which was also a 20/20 game) in the finals vs the DPOY and a top 5 defensive team no less.



Yet Duncan's defense was on another level, and I wouldn't even necessarily give Lebron the statistical edge. 30/10/6 is great, but so is 25/15/5/3. And yeah, PER is a made up stat. Just all the stats we always had mashed up into one with subjective values and adjustments based on Hollinger's opinion.



You've already been exposed as a troll account, and even if you weren't, posts like this would have made it clear. Oh, and those 2004 Pistons were champions and got to game 7 of the finals the following year. Also a better team than the 2012 Thunder, quite clearly actually.



Still much better than the Lakers 3rd guy who was post-elbow surgery Glen Rice who was declining fast at that point. Put up 12/4/2, 41% for the playoffs and really didn't make an impact since he was benched late in games throughout the year(most famously in the finals when his wife called out Phil) for not moving without the ball and failing to fit into the triangle as well as being a defensive liability.



Probably his worst game of the playoffs, yet he still had 9 points in the 4th quarter comeback while making some big defensive plays and setting up the shooters for open shots that also proved to be huge.

.

One simple look at the roster shows how stacked they were. Sheed, Pippen, Steve Smith, Sabonis, Damon Stoudamire, Detlef Schrempf, Bonzi Wells, Brian Grant and Greg Anthony. They're as good an example of a stacked team as you'll find.

In fact, they added Pippen, Steve Smith and Detlef Schrempf to a team that was in the WCF the year before while really subtracting only Isaiah Rider(not known as a winning player) in addition to Sheed having a breakout season.

Blazers were the most talented team in the league that year and they had some match up problems vs Portland. Sheed feasted on AC Green's corpse in the post, and Horry could handle him either, while Pippen was assigned to Harper since he was not a threat offensively for the sole purpose of doubling Shaq on the catch with not only Pippen as the best perimeter help defender in the league, but Sabonis as the one guy as big as Shaq who could prevent him from getting good position as frequently as usual.

I'd love to see Lebron vs that type of defense and defensive attention.



Indiana was an exceptionally well-built, battle-tested team with arguably more offensive firepower than any team in the league that season. They were certainly on par with the 2012 Thunder as a team. Maybe not as far as star talent, but as far as being a very good team.

Anyone with half a brain knows Lebron had more help in 2012 than Shaq did in 2000 and faced worse competition.


dam.... straight ethering those lebron stans.
:applause:

[tpols]

The dude that thinks experience doesn't mean anything calls me a retard :oldlol:
One year accounting for a massive difference in experience haha.. saying Thunder were better than the Heat but worse than the Celtics based off of one more year one where they lost in the WCF and one in the finals.:oldlol:


The dude that refers to talent as the reason for the 2011 Thunder being better then the 2012 Celtics, ignoring the fact that the 2011 Mavs beat the 2011 Thunder and Heat despite being less talented calls me a retard.
That all the more reason their competition was harder.. they were less talented than every team they faced. This isnt that hard. Youre not even making sense anymore and NO ONE would agree with your dumbass premise.


I'm so embarrassed buddy :oldlol: .
As you should be.:oldlol:

You came out with a one, one, one , one 2=2 comparison when I explained the contextual differences in opponents.

Lakers and Portland were infinitely more talented and better teams than Indy and NY.. Celtics and Thunder is clearly Thunder even if you want to make it a toss up to make the two equals two argument. And the 2011 Heat were a better team than the 2012 Thunder.. you say they werent because they played worse in a series they lost.. makes lots of sense.:oldlol:

Bottom line even using your retarded line of thinking.. you gave two pushes at best(Heat<Thunder and Celtics>Thunder) BOTH to Miami and then equaled those differentials out despite the massive disparity in competition that results from comparisons of Portland and LA to NY and Indy.

Great logic there buddy

[DirkNowitzki41]

lol @ people actually believing 2012 lebron >> 2011 dirk. and their argument is stats. :oldlol:

i love bron, but jesus get off his nuts.

either way, both are one of the best playoff performances of all time. just lebron #2 is wayy too high

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

My championship runs from superstars since 89:

1) 91, 92, 93 MJ
2) 94 and 95 Hakeem
3) 2k Shaq
4) 2k12 LeBron
5) 2k3 Duncan

Honorable Mentions:

6) 2k1 and 2k2 Shaq
7) 97 and 98 MJ
8) 2006 Wade
9) 2009 Kobe
10) 96 MJ
11) 2010 Kobe
12) 2k1 Kobe

Nice list

[tpols]

lol @ people actually believing 2012 lebron >> 2011 dirk. and their argument is stats. :oldlol:

i love bron, but jesus get off his nuts.

either way, both are one of the best playoff performances of all time. just lebron #2 is wayy too high
No.. guy is saying Lebron had harder competition as well. Its hilarious.

[SamuraiSWISH]

My championship runs from superstars since 89:

1) 91, 92, 93 MJ
2) 94 and 95 Hakeem
3) 2k Shaq
4) 2k12 LeBron
5) 2k3 Duncan

Honorable Mentions:

6) 2k1 and 2k2 Shaq
7) 97 and 98 MJ
8) 2006 Wade
9) 2009 Kobe
10) 96 MJ
11) 2010 Kobe
12) 2k1 Kobe

Dirk fans on ISH severely overrating his run in 2011. He balled in the Portland and OKC series. Was underwhelming in comparison in the Finals. He was also more one dimensional than all the guy's listed above. He scored and rebounded, but many of the guy's here matched his PPG output, while also being playmakers and being significantly bigger contributors on the defensive end than Dirk.

[DirkNowitzki41]

No.. guy is saying Lebron had harder competition as well. Its hilarious.

:lol hell no

mavs had a very tough road. they were underdogs in every series for a reason. they had tougher opponents and a weaker supporting cast than what the heat had last year easily.

oh well, thats just how i saw it...

[tpols]

My championship runs from superstars since 89:

1) 91, 92, 93 MJ
2) 94 and 95 Hakeem
3) 2k Shaq
4) 2k12 LeBron
5) 2k3 Duncan

Honorable Mentions:

6) 2k1 and 2k2 Shaq
7) 97 and 98 MJ
8) 2006 Wade
9) 2009 Kobe
10) 96 MJ
11) 2010 Kobe
12) 2k1 Kobe

Dirk fans on ISH severely overrating his run in 2011. He balled in the Portland and OKC series. Was underwhelming in comparison in the Finals. He was also more one dimensional than all the guy's listed above. He scored and rebounded, but many of the guy's here matched his PPG output, while also being playmakers and being significantly bigger contributors on the defensive end than Dirk.
No love for the clutch statistics? Dirk had by far the best and most efficient fourth quarter scoring in the playoffs that year.

He demolished bron and the Heat in the clutch. Wish someone had the exact stats.. it was a landslide. Sure his team helped him out to get to that point in the finals since he wasnt amazing in quarters 1-3, but to put them over the top the way he did was special.

I saw both Kobe's 09 and 10 runs in totality and even being a huge Kobe fan he never had clutchness like what I saw from Dirk. WCF against the Nugz and WCF against the suns where his long range fadeaway was unstoppable.. but the way Dirk strung it together... was something else. Never seen such dominant point blank scoring with games on the oline. Funny thing is even though he struggled against the Heat all series long, whenever they needed a basket in the waning minutes he ALWAYS came through. Every time.

[DirkNowitzki41]

No love for the clutch statistics? Dirk had by far the best and most efficient fourth quarter scoring in the playoffs that year.

He demolished bron and the Heat in the clutch. Wish someone had the exact stats.. it was a landslide. Sure his team helped him out to get to that point in the finals since he wasnt amazing in quarters 1-3, but to put them over the top the way he did was special.

I saw both Kobe's 09 and 10 runs in totality and even being a huge Kobe fan he never had clutchness like what I saw from Dirk. WCF against the Nugz and WCF against the suns where his long range fadeaway was unstoppable.. but the way Dirk strung it together... was something else. Never seen such dominant point blank scoring with games on the oline. Funny thing is even though he struggled against the Heat all series long, whenever they needed a basket in the waning minutes he ALWAYS came through. Every time.

:applause:

2 game winners in the finals :bowdown:

[tpols]

:lol hell no

mavs had a very tough road. they were underdogs in every series for a reason. they had tougher opponents and a weaker supporting cast than what the heat had last year easily.

oh well, thats just how i saw it...
^That is how everybody saw it.. theres no argument otherwise. Completely ridiculous its even being debated.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Wade was better than Dirk in the Finals. Anybody disagree with this?

[guy]

One year accounting for a massive difference in experience haha.. saying Thunder were better than the Heat but worse than the Celtics based off of one more year one where they lost in the WCF and one in the finals.:oldlol:

We're not talking about a team with going from 5 years to 6 years of playoff experience. There is a huge difference between having 1 year of playoff experience vs. 2 years. Are you that stupid to not see the difference?

The 2012 Celtics took the 2012 Heat to a competitive 7 game series. The 2012 Heat had a much easier time beating the 2012 Thunder in a 5 game series. The 2012 Thunder were clearly better then the 2011 Thunder, who were taking their all star PG out in critical moments OF THE ****ING PLAYOFFS due to his questionable play that was probably largely the result of his lack of experience, which the 2012 Celtics clearly weren't lacking.

So with that being the case, PLEASE tell me how its so farfetched that the 2012 Celtics would've beaten the 2011 Thunder in a series? Until you can come up with a legitimate response get your ****ing head out of your ass.



That all the more reason their competition was harder.. they were less talented than every team they faced. This isnt that hard. Youre not even making sense anymore and NO ONE would agree with your dumbass premise.


Actually, my premise is that talent doesn't always dictate the results, which means it doesn't determine how much more difficult one's competition is. And how talented the 2012 Heat/2011 Mavs were has nothing to do with how good their competition was.



As you should be.:oldlol:

You came out with a one, one, one , one 2=2 comparison when I explained the contextual differences in opponents.

Lakers and Portland were infinitely more talented and better teams than Indy and NY.. Celtics and Thunder is clearly Thunder even if you want to make it a toss up to make the two equals two argument. And the 2011 Heat were a better team than the 2012 Thunder.. you say they werent because they played worse in a series they lost.. makes lots of sense.:oldlol:

Bottom line even using your retarded line of thinking.. you gave two pushes at best(Heat<Thunder and Celtics>Thunder) BOTH to Miami and then equaled those differentials out despite the massive disparity in competition that results from comparisons of Portland and LA to NY and Indy.

Great logic there buddy

Actually no I never said they were equal. I didn't bother going through the differentials, cause my whole point was the competition wasn't so much better to account for every other reason why Lebron's was better.


Like I said, come up with better shit to overreact to. :oldlol:




No.. guy is saying Lebron had harder competition as well. Its hilarious.

Keep twisting shit you ****in moron :oldlol:

[Odinn]

When I first saw it, I said it was not bad. But when you think about it, it's a clear agenda to glorify LeBron. Nothing else. The most terrifying one is 2006 Wade > 1980 Kareem. WTF?!?!?!

[K Xerxes]

Top 5 (from ones I've seen):

1) Hakeem '95
2) Jordan '91
3) Jordan '93
4) Shaq '00
5) Duncan '03/Jordan '92

IMO

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wade was better than Dirk in the Finals. Anybody disagree with this?
Wade was absolutely better until he had the hip flexor injury (story of his career not being healthy) ... but I'd definitely agree. He was bringing it on both ends of the floor. Clutch even on defense. Blocking Tyson Chandler's dunk attempts STRAIGHT UP vertical. That's absurd, a 6'3 SG blocking a 7'1 center's dunk straight at the rim. Jason Terry bailed Dirk out a lot and sucked a lot of defensive attention his way. Contrast that to Wade having a LeBron refusing to be engaged and aggressive, moping out on the three point land doing NOTHING and the CONTEXT makes things even more stark in comparison. The Mavs even had JJ Barrea all playoffs stepping up HUGE.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Wade was absolutely better until he had the hip flexor injury (story of his career not being healthy) ... but I'd definitely agree. He was bringing it on both ends of the floor. Clutch even on defense. Blocking Tyson Chandler's dunk attempts STRAIGHT UP vertical. That's absurd, a 6'3 SG blocking a 7'1 center's dunk straight at the rim. Jason Terry bailed Dirk out a lot and sucked a lot of defensive attention his way. Contrast that to Wade having a LeBron refusing to be engaged and aggressive, moping out on the three point land doing NOTHING and the CONTEXT makes things even more stark in comparison. The Mavs even had JJ Barrea all playoffs stepping up HUGE.

Exactly my point. Dirk scored 26 ppg on 41% and people act like he had no help even though Jason Terry scored 18 ppg on nearly 50%. Meanwhile, Wade was absolutely balling that series, scoring 26.5 ppg on nearly 55% FG / 1.5 SPG / 1.5 BPG. It pisses me off when people say Dirk outplayed Wade and had to carry everyone in the Finals.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Exactly my point. Dirk scored 26 ppg on 41% and people act like he had no help even though Jason Terry scored 18 ppg on nearly 50%. Meanwhile, Wade was absolutely balling that series, scoring 26.5 ppg on nearly 55% FG / 1.5 SPG / 1.5 BPG. It pisses me off when people say Dirk outplayed Wade and had to carry everyone in the Finals.
He didn't. And his poor play in the Finals is why anyone calling Dirk's 2011 run as elite or all-time great level is kidding themselves. Especially my boy DMAVS41. He'd crucify Kobe for scoring 26 ppg on 41% (and he's not 7 feet tall) in the Finals. But for Dirk, it's swept under the rug. Why? Because he's white? Because his team beat LeBron / Wade? And they did so with plenty of help, clutch help at that. The Heat beat themselves that series. I chalk that entire series up to LeBron's mental, competitive issues. Nothing more, nothing less. If LeBron simply puts up 20 - 22 ppg, Miami takes that series. People act like Dirk had some godly Jordan-esque 40+ ppg Finals dragging the Mavericks past a Miami team lead by James and Wade both playing at their best. It's hyperbole and a clear cut twisting of agenda to make it sound more heroic than it was.

[2010splash]

The 2001 team went 15-1, a playoff record. It's not like Shaq was carrying a light load either. You like stats so much, here's one. Shaq averaged 30/15 for that playoff run, only the 3rd time it's ever been done over at least 15 games or a trip to the finals. The other 2? Kareem in '74 and Shaq the previous year in 2000. He also became the first player in NBA history with back to back 40/20 games, in addition to a 40/20 game followed up with a near quadruple double(which was also a 20/20 game) in the finals vs the DPOY and a top 5 defensive team no less.
So what? He had way more help than LeBron in 2001. Dude wasn’t even the best player in his own team in the Western Conference Finals vs. San Antonio. The so-called “MDE” who “easily” had the second most dominant playoff run ever wasn’t even the most dominant player on his own squad for a series. :roll:

30/10/6 is every bit as impressive as 30/15/3. Those 40/20 games are nice and all, but nothing Shaq did compares to LeBron’s 45/15/5 in an elimination game on the road against the #1 ranked defense in the league. And before you spout off about Shaq’s random 40/20 games in no pressure situations, realize that LeBron’s 45/15/5 was basically with sitting out nearly the entire 4th quarter because he single-handedly put the game out of Boston’s reach by mid-3rd quarter. Had the game even been close, the line would have looked like 55/20/8 or something like that.


Yet Duncan's defense was on another level, and I wouldn't even necessarily give Lebron the statistical edge. 30/10/6 is great, but so is 25/15/5/3. And yeah, PER is a made up stat. Just all the stats we always had mashed up into one with subjective values and adjustments based on Hollinger's opinion.
The gap between their offense > the minor gap between defense. LeBron was a much more dominant and unstoppable offensive player than Duncan. PER holds more value than your opinion on it. Jordan, LeBron, Shaq, Wilt = 4 best players of all-time = 4 highest PERs of all-time. Bird, Kobe, Magic = great but overrated players who were not as dominant as the media hype suggested they were = relatively pedestrian PERs compared to truly dominant greats. Coincidence? I think not.


You've already been exposed as a troll account, and even if you weren't, posts like this would have made it clear. Oh, and those 2004 Pistons were champions and got to game 7 of the finals the following year. Also a better team than the 2012 Thunder, quite clearly actually.
2004 Pistons were a sh-t offensive team that ranked somewhere around 20th on that end. If Kobe didn’t jack like there was no tomorrow, the Pistons go down as merely one of the weakest Finals teams ever. That you honestly believe they were better than the 2012 Thunder is a sad indictment on your basketball knowledge. The 2012 Thunder would embarrass the 2004 Pistons.




Still much better than the Lakers 3rd guy who was post-elbow surgery Glen Rice who was declining fast at that point. Put up 12/4/2, 41% for the playoffs and really didn't make an impact since he was benched late in games throughout the year(most famously in the finals when his wife called out Phil) for not moving without the ball and failing to fit into the triangle as well as being a defensive liability.
Of course he’s much better than the Lakers’ third guy when he’s actually playing/healthy. The point is he essentially missed all of the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Thus, for a good chunk of the playoffs Shaq easily had a better #3 than LeBron because LeBron’s #3 was not playing.


Probably his worst game of the playoffs, yet he still had 9 points in the 4th quarter comeback while making some big defensive plays and setting up the shooters for open shots that also proved to be huge.
So what? 2012 LeBron never came up that small in a crucial game.


One simple look at the roster shows how stacked they were. Sheed, Pippen, Steve Smith, Sabonis, Damon Stoudamire, Detlef Schrempf, Bonzi Wells, Brian Grant and Greg Anthony. They're as good an example of a stacked team as you'll find.
Stacked with role players, sure.

In fact, they added Pippen, Steve Smith and Detlef Schrempf to a team that was in the WCF the year before while really subtracting only Isaiah Rider(not known as a winning player) in addition to Sheed having a breakout season.
In the WCF during a lockout season littered with out of shape and underachieving players, a season widely considered to be one of the worst in history? Not impressive at all. Them being in the WCF the year before is evidence of how awful the West (and 1999 in general) was that year, not that the Blazers were as good as you pretend they were.



Indiana was an exceptionally well-built, battle-tested team with arguably more offensive firepower than any team in the league that season. They were certainly on par with the 2012 Thunder as a team. Maybe not as far as star talent, but as far as being a very good team.

Anyone with half a brain knows Lebron had more help in 2012 than Shaq did in 2000 and faced worse competition.
Only people with screws loose in their heads think that. LeBron was consistently dominant for virtually every single game of the entire 2012 playoffs. Fatty Shaq never carried as much of a load as LeBron did that year. In fact, here is a list of all the games where Shaq wasn’t even that good during the 2000 playoff run: Game 3 Round 1 vs. SAC, Game 5 Round 2 vs. PHX, Game 6 Round 3 vs. POR, Game 7 Round 4 vs. POR. Dude wilted in BACK TO BACK games of the WCF while being carried in Game 7. Meanwhile LeBron almost single-handedly dragged Miami past Boston in the ECF, night in and night out destroying them to the tune of 34/11 or so.

Man, forget this Shaq at #2 bullsh-t. Dude has no business being mentioned with Jordan and LeBron (#1 and #2 in this list).

[2010splash]

And LeBron needed the help of a 24/5/4 # 2 option+ the help of a 15/8 #3 option to win in 2012.
No, those were not Wade’s stats during the playoff run and he was also inconsistent/seriously injured throughout most of it. Bosh was absent for virtually everything in between the first round and Finals.


The WHOLE team contributed to the come back against Portland. It sure as hell wasn't like Kobe just saved Shaq from a choke job. Brian Shaw hit 3 three pointers to start the run, Shaq had a 3 point play sandwiched between a Robert Horry 3 pointer. The Blazers swarmed Shaq with double and triple teams daring someone else to beat them and the roleplayers finally got on track in the 4th qtr.
Yes, exactly. Shaq’s teammates bailed him out. LeBron’s teammates never bailed him out because he was sucking for even one game, never mind BACK TO BACK games like Shaq did in the 2000 WCF. LeBron’s dominance was a given for every single game basically.



It's essentially a formulated opinion. He gave certain stats a value and decided to run with it. It means exactly nothing when it comes to basketball.
Says you.


PER doesn't measure who the best player is. Nor does it measure one player being better than another. All PER does is give an indication of a player's performance based on Hollingers calculated rankings of measured statistics. Hollinger gave the most value to what he thought was most important. Essentially anyone could make a similar stat to PER crediting one category more then another, and thus the list would change.
Sure it does. It comes closer than anything else. It’s no coincidence that Jordan and LeBron have the two highest PERs ever. Most knowledgeable fans recognize them as the two best players ever, at worst the two most dominant perimeter players ever. And no coincidence that Wilt, Shaq and Kareem have the next 3 highest PERs when it’s pretty much accepted by everyone that these were the three most dominant C’s ever.


:roll: The 2000 Blazers were one of the deepest teams the NBA has ever seen. One of the most perfectly balanced teams ever assembled. They took a Lakers team that won 67 games to 7 games and if they didn't collapse in the 4th quarter, they would be champions. They were also great defensively, with Wallace, Pippen, Augmon, Anthony, Grant and even Sabonis (who didn't have a lot of quickness but was good at denying position to big men) all as good to great defenders. That series was truly a match between 5 stars with a deep bench vs 1 superstar, 1 budding superstar and a bunch of below average role players.
As I’ve said several times now, this is a gross and comical exaggeration of the talent level of the 2000 Blazers. “One of the most perfectly balanced teams ever assembled?”:oldlol: A team without a single legitimate all-star level player is far from perfect. A big reason why they even got as far as they did and pushed the Lakers to the brink of elimination was because Shaq choked in Game 6 and Game 7.

[Bigsmoke]

Lebron #2?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


No Dirk?

Shaq below lebron?:roll: :roll: :roll:


ESPN trying to rewrite history. Retarded fans will have a completely unrealistic view of the NBA. They are trying to write out MDE shaq! Tim Duncan even ahead of him? WTF:facepalm

And Lebron #2? DOESN'T EVEN BELONG TOP 5! WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT!


30/10/5 50%

-game 6 in that Celtics series
-clutch in game 2 in the FInals
-game 4 in the Pacers game...
-won it all with Bosh missing nearly 2 rounds and Wade being hurt. Bosh had to miss playing in the olympics because of their injuries.

I can only see hater or morons not thinking LeBron's 2012 run wasn't anything special.

[KG215]

Of course it does. Shaq 2000 is arguable at best, and it’s simply idiotic to rank his 2001 over LeBron 2012. Shaq needed the help of a 30/7/6 #2 option to win 2001. In 2000, he wasn’t even the most instrumental player in leading his team to the Game 7 comeback against Portland. Kobe OUTPLAYED Shaq in Game 7 when it mattered most. :roll: LeBron’s is #3 at the very worst, with a strong argument for #2. Saying it’s top 5-10 is pure lunacy. Shaq's playoff stats are not one bit better than LeBron's. And mentioning Hakeem, Kobe, Duncan or Bird in this conversation is just nonsensical.
So are you going to actually man-up and address this and just admit you're a troll account?


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4620615&postcount=63

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6016780&postcount=50

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6016809&postcount=52

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So are you going to actually man-up and address this and just admit you're a troll account?

That or a bandwagon piece of trash. Any way you slice it, he's a terrible poster.

[2010splash]

So are you going to actually man-up and address this and just admit you're a troll account?
Are you going to address my points that rip your grade school arguments to shreds or are you going to just continue rehashing proof of chazzy

[HoopsFanNumero1]

[QUOTE=2010splash]Are you going to address my points that rip your grade school arguments to shreds or are you going to just continue rehashing proof of chazzy

[KG215]

Are you going to address my points that rip your grade school arguments to shreds or are you going to just continue rehashing proof of chazzy’s pathetic stalking and obsession with me? I have shared this account in the past with a good buddy who happens to hate the Heat. Making a mockery out of you and all the other dimwits who keep bringing up those old posts is simply too easy.
First off, in no way did your arguments "rip mine to shreds" because all you did was state your opinion. You just did it in a hyperbolic manner in attempt to try and add more validity to what you were saying. Word of advice, going over the top with things like "way better", "easily", "not even close" and calling people names while doing so doesn't make your arguments better, it makes them worse.

Secondly, I'm not going to address you until you can explain why, just 2-3 years ago, you were ripping LeBron and the Heat, and pretty much taking the exact opposite stance on them as you do now. Until then, you're not worthy of any halfway intelligent response from anyone because you're either: a.) an obvious troll or b.) a bandwagonning piece of shit.

I'm not buying that lame "I shared this account with a buddy in the past" bullshit story, either. That's the most overused excuse I've seen on here from people. That tazb just recently got caught for doing basically exactly what you're doing (used to be a LeBron/Heat hater and now he's a LeBron d**krider), and said he took over someone else's account not too long ago.

[2010splash]

First off, in no way did your arguments "rip mine to shreds" because all you did was state your opinion. You just did it in a hyperbolic manner in attempt to try and add more validity to what you were saying.

Secondly, I'm not going to address you until you can explain why, just 2-3 years ago, you were ripping LeBron and the Heat, and pretty much taking the exact opposite stance on them as you do now. Until then, you're not worthy of any halfway intelligent response from anyone because you're either: a.) an obvious troll or b.) a bandwagonning piece of shit.

I'm not buying that lame "I shared this account with a buddy in the past" bullshit story, either.
In other words, you have no counterargument. That's all you needed to say. :applause: I couldn't care less if you buy the story. Not my fault you can't handle the truth.

[Ne 1]

[QUOTE]No, those were not Wade

[KG215]

In other words, you have no counterargument. That's all you needed to say. :applause: I couldn't care less if you buy the story. Not my fault you can't handle the truth.
I'd have a counterargument if you actually had valid ones. All your counterarguments consist of are hyperbole and name-calling.

[dh144498]

lol.... i love how all the lebron bandwagoners who used to criticize him all say they shared the account with their friends. :oldlol: :lol

so far on the list:

tazb
2010splash

:lol

[Ne 1]

Yeah, now I'm sure 2010splash is a gino/DMAVS41 sock puppet account. Likes to say "owned" or "lol owned" at the end of his posts and often comes off as condescending in his arguments. Also used the shared account excuse before when people called him out on his bullshit.



Originally Posted by DMAVS41

For the record, it actually wasn't always me, just like this account isn't. My two other brothers get on this all the time name.

We have similar views, but not always. That is why you will see some differences from time to time.




It was also weird how when I accused splash of being DMAVS, both of them turned on the feature where you can hide when you're online because someone else pointed out that right after spalsh posted, he logged out, and then DMAVS logged in and posted in that thread.

[2010splash]

Yeah, now I'm sure 2010splash is a gino/DMAVS41 sock puppet account. Likes to say "owned" or "lol owned" at the end of his posts and often comes off as condescending in his arguments. Also used the shared account excuse before when people called him out on his bullshit.




It was also weird how when I accused splash of being DMAVS, both of them turned on the feature where you can hide when you're online because someone else pointed out that right after spalsh posted, he logged out, and then DMAVS logged in and posted in that thread.
Da fuq are you talking about? Gino? DMAVS? :oldlol: Seriously, you are getting pretty desperate.

[DMAVS41]

HUH? What exactly did I say that was wrong?

2012 Celtics > 2011 Thunder? The 2011 Thunder were inexperienced. It was their first year out of the first round. What the **** are you talking about? They took out their starting all-star PG for the backup in critical moments of the series because he was questionable in running an offense, which he still was a year later by the way. You think a team like the 2012 Celtics wouldn't be able to capitalize against a team with problems like that??????

2012 Thunder > 2011 Heat? Yes, if Lebron plays like a ****ing zombie, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

The very next year, the Heat and Thunder got better. OMG WTF, a year later two teams, including one of the youngest in the league, grew and got better with maturity and experience, what a RIDICULOUS ****ING THING TO SAY :wtf: :eek: :rolleyes: :oldlol:

Come up with better shit to overreact to :oldlol: .

12 Thunder in the finals weren't very good using yours standards then...as Harden choked completely and was way worse than Lebron was against the Mavs actually.

Mavs clearly faced tougher competition. They just happened to make every team they played look average to poor...

Heat happened to make the Celtics in 12, for example, look way better than they were.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, now I'm sure 2010splash is a gino/DMAVS41 sock puppet account. Likes to say "owned" or "lol owned" at the end of his posts and often comes off as condescending in his arguments. Also used the shared account excuse before when people called him out on his bullshit.




It was also weird how when I accused splash of being DMAVS, both of them turned on the feature where you can hide when you're online because someone else pointed out that right after spalsh posted, he logged out, and then DMAVS logged in and posted in that thread.

I can tell you it's not me, but I probably shouldn't because it's hilarious watching you waste this kind of time on who is behind posts on an anonymous message board...