Lebron-Wade BIG PROBLEM Fantastic Piece

[arifgokcen]

First of all lebron is choking(no denying that) but wade is killing the entire team literally.I was watching the finals in my native language commentators were talking about wade the entire time(how spurs completely ignores him.)Its amazing.

Insider article by

http://a.espncdn.com/i/columnists/haberstroh_tom_m.jpg

[QUOTE]

Tom Haberstroh ‏@tomhaberstroh
The Heat have a Dwyane Wade problem and the Spurs are exploiting it to stop LeBron. http://es.pn/12myksk

If you were to design a co-pilot for LeBron James on the court, would it look anything like this version of Dwyane Wade?

That

[TonyMontana]

VERY good article.

Not only does he hurt the spacing, but he hurts LeBrons game because LeBron and Wade are obvious bros so LeBron will look to actively involve Wade trying way too hard to set him up.

Popovich must've been reading my posts during the rest of the playoff series. I kept wondering why teams would even bother to guard Wade. EVERY SINGLE TIME he goes for some lame pump fake when he catches the ball 15 feet away from the hoop, EVERY time. Its obvious he doesn't want to shoot it. When he does take a shot it is way off and ugly as hell.. His handle isn't even good anymore, hes dribbled it off his foot plenty of times.

A 6'3 32 year old guard has no place on an NBA court if he can't make anything other than layups/dunks.

[L8kersfan222]

Popovich must've been reading my posts
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/339048/gregg-popovich-approved-o.gif

[WolfGang]

Omfg I have been saying this for the longest time. When I first started watching basketball I somehow became a Dwyane Wade stan and worshipped him. I used to hate Lebron at the time because I honestly felt like Wade was better but didn't get the same recognition. Lebron is doing waaaay too much work on the court; has been since the season started. If you switched Wade with Kobe would the Heat be having these problems? Wade is useless when he gets the ball and doesn't need to be guarded as hard as most teams do. He just isn't that good anymore.

[Akhenaten]

VERY good article.

Not only does he hurt the spacing, but he hurts LeBrons game because LeBron and Wade are obvious bros so LeBron will look to actively involve Wade trying way too hard to set him up.

Popovich must've been reading my posts during the rest of the playoff series. I kept wondering why teams would even bother to guard Wade. EVERY SINGLE TIME he goes for some lame pump fake when he catches the ball 15 feet away from the hoop, EVERY time. Its obvious he doesn't want to shoot it. When he does take a shot it is way off and ugly as hell.. His handle isn't even good anymore, hes dribbled it off his foot plenty of times.

A 6'3 32 year old guard has no place on an NBA court if he can't make anything other than layups/dunks.

I like how you took an inch off his height and added a year onto his age :roll:
Imma HUGE Wade guy but the article definitely has much merit

I just cannot understand for the life of me how a 10 year NBA vet SG has still not developed a catch and shoot game. Many times Wade's guy will be 5-10 ft away from him and he'll pump fake then dribble RIGHT towards the thick of the defense.

It's mind-numbing, even if you shoot below 40% on those shots, just by catching and shooting in those situations it's better for offensive continuity and rhythm EVEN WHEN YOU'RE NOT MAKING THE SHOTS.

Certain situations in basketball you HAVE to shoot the ball IMO. Wade has always been a guy who is way too concerned about missing, being able to finish at 70% rate at the rim on 8+ attempts is a gift and curse.

Players who've never had that kind of athletic ability are FORCED to maximize their jumpshots, Wade has never had to RELY on his jump shot. Now that he's older and only 6'4 his game looks REALLY clunky.

same for his handles, he could always get right to the bucket for a dunk off a high screen with 1 or two dribbles. He hasn't spent enough time developing his "little guard" skills.

[Frozen1]

So ESPN trys to find a excuse for lebron choking.

And of course they are blaming Wade. In the end, it will not be Lebron`s fault.

It is also wade fault that Lebron can`t hit a jumper when they are guarding him 10 feet away, and that Lebron facial expression is of someone completely shitted and scared.

The same can be said about james. They pack wade`s drives because lebron is scared to shoot a jumper.

[La Frescobaldi]

been saying this all playoffs. Wade is poison on the court. Don't know when it happened, or how, or why, nor care.
But it's fact and about time somebody else noticed it because I was getting lonesome telling all that truth by myself.

Best way to destroy Miami is to go straight at Dwyane Wade and run him through multiple down low screens.

Run him through Leonard, then Duncan, then flatten him with a Splitter screen.... and you got easy basket after easy basket and Wade will be whining by halftime.

[arifgokcen]

I like how you took an inch off his height and added a year onto his age :roll:
Imma HUGE Wade guy but the article definitely has much merit

I just cannot understand for the life of me how a 10 year NBA vet SG has still not developed a catch and shoot game. Many times Wade's guy will be 5-10 ft away from him and he'll pump fake then dribble RIGHT towards the thick of the defense.

It's mind-numbing, even if you shoot below 40% on those shots, just by catching and shooting in those situations it's better for offensive continuity and rhythm EVEN WHEN YOU'RE NOT MAKING THE SHOTS.

Certain situations in basketball you HAVE to shoot the ball IMO. Wade has always been a guy who is way too concerned about missing, being able to finish at 70% rate at the rim on 8+ attempts is a gift and curse.

Players who've never had that kind of athletic ability are FORCED to maximize their jumpshots, Wade has never had to RELY on his jump shot. Now that he's older and only 6'4 his game looks REALLY clunky.

same for his handles, he could always get right to the bucket for a dunk off a high screen with 1 or two dribbles. He hasn't spent enough time developing his "little guard" skills.
He is 6'3 though.

He said it himself
lebron talked about it.

Though he plays bigger than he is because of his incredible ath.ability(past) and wingspan and his size 220+ at 6'3-6'4

Though it still doesnt change the fact that he cant shoot to save his life as you talked about

[PickernRoller]

Wade as a 6th man is a fantastic idea?

:lol :lol ,,,what has the world come down to. It's all about making excuses for the K..bleep...bleep....the Queen. Looks like another ESPN writer that voted James for MVP. Series prediction 4-0 Miami Sweep.

[TonyMontana]

Wades mid range game used to be money too.

I dont think this man puts the necesary reps in to maintain those skills. More concerned with his fashion.

[Derka]

Good piece and you can't deny the numbers and what we're seeing...but it reads like ESPN deflecting blame from Lebron by deriding the armchair psychology aspects that are equally as valid as the stats.

[veilside23]

but but i thought dwade is light years better than TP right??

oh damn .... its hard when are a team mate of the best player ever... your game gets a hard blow if your team loses but they dont even lick at your performance if you win they give all praises to LeGawd....

[KG215]

Originally Posted by TonyMontana
VERY good article.

Not only does he hurt the spacing, but he hurts LeBrons game because LeBron and Wade are obvious bros so LeBron will look to actively involve Wade trying way too hard to set him up.

Popovich must've been reading my posts during the rest of the playoff series. I kept wondering why teams would even bother to guard Wade. EVERY SINGLE TIME he goes for some lame pump fake when he catches the ball 15 feet away from the hoop, EVERY time. Its obvious he doesn't want to shoot it. When he does take a shot it is way off and ugly as hell.. His handle isn't even good anymore, hes dribbled it off his foot plenty of times.

A 6'3 32 year old guard has no place on an NBA court if he can't make anything other than layups/dunks.
I'm almost convinced you're a pauk alt.

[PickernRoller]

I'm almost convinced you're a pauk alt.

Any Lebron or self-proclaimed Heat fan can be an alt in this forum.

[Akhenaten]

He is 6'3 though.



his official pre-draft measurement without shoes is 6'3 and 3/4

just like Lebron is really only 6'7 (officially measured at 6'7 and 1/4)

[Haks]

Its incredible how a player in his 10th year can barely make a WIDE OPEN mid range shot, all this crap about an injured knee is incredibly overblown. Im pretty sure its harder to dunk on an injured knee than pull up from mid range.
. I cant even remember the last time he hit a 3.

[Akhenaten]

Good piece and you can't deny the numbers and what we're seeing...but it reads like ESPN deflecting blame from Lebron by deriding the armchair psychology aspects that are equally as valid as the stats.

yup, we all know this typical ESPN spinning for Lebron
but the arguments made in the article is apparent to any objective observer

[Derka]

yup, we all know this typical ESPN spinning for Lebron
but the arguments made in the article is apparent to any objective observer
I definitely don't dispute the numbers and my own eye test tells me Wade is killing them right now...but I don't callously shrug the psychology of Lebron the way ESPN does, either. It does matter to a degree.

[WolfGang]

Lebron has played bad the last two games, but Wade has been absolute shiit the entire season. I think he needs to lose 15lbs and move to the pg spot. He definitely should start taking shot...no matter how horrible.

[Kingwillball]

[QUOTE=WolfGang]Lebron has played bad the last two games, but Wade has been absolute shiit the entire season. I think he needs to lose 15lbs and move to the pg spot. He definitely should start taking shot...no matter how horrible.[/QUOTE

Nah Wade was great from about dec to march that was when Heat were playing best ball cause Lebron and Wade could both score 30 any night and Bosh was also playing alot better.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Lebron has played bad the last two games, but Wade has been absolute shiit the entire season. I think he needs to lose 15lbs and move to the pg spot. He definitely should start taking shot...no matter how horrible.

Nope. He was actually pretty good in the regular season, especially for a stretch during their win streak. He has been absolute shit in the postseason though. The only times I can really remember him playing good was the 4th quarter in game 5 against the Bulls and game 7 against the Pacers.

[I.R.Beast]

If other star players are smart and have any concern for their own productivity and actually being allowed to help a team win by contributing their full skillset instead of just catching and shooting they'd steer clear of team with lebron on it.
It sickens me to see what his ball dominant style has reduced two players the caliber of wade and bosh to. Designated cutter and spot up shooter is all they've become. They must make all the sacrifice and changes to their game to accommodate him while he doesn't have to make any adjustment which would allow them to better help the team. Say what you want about Melo, Kobe and durant, but their offensive versatility at least allows other players to contribute without sacrificing an aspect of their game.

If Lebron could shoot the jumpers conceded to him would this article have even surfaced? I know wade and bosh never saw this coming. It's sad, really sad. The lineup suggested in the article puts Lebron right back in CLEVELAND playing 5 on 1 kicking out bailout passes for 3 and expecting to win a title.

[Ikill]

If other star players are smart and have any concern for their own productivity and actually be allowed to help a team win by contributing their full skillset instead of just catching and shooting they'd steer clear of team with lebron on it.
It sickens me to see what his ball dominant style has reduced two players the caliber of wade and bosh to. Designated cutter and spot up shooter is all they've become. They must make all the sacrifice and changes to their game to accommodate him while he doesn't have to make any adjustment which would allow them to better help the team. Say what you want about Melo, Kobe and durant, but their offensive versatility at least allows other players to contribute without sacrificing an aspect of their game.

If Lebron could shoot the jumpers conceded to him would this article have even surfaced? I know wade adn bosh never saw this coming. It's sad, really sad. The lineup suggest in the article puts Lebron right back in CLEVELAND playing 5 on 1 kicking out bailout passes for 3 and expecting to win a title.
Agree with everything

[jzek]

Washed up.

[eriX]

If other star players are smart and have any concern for their own productivity and actually be allowed to help a team win by contributing their full skillset instead of just catching and shooting they'd steer clear of team with lebron on it.
It sickens me to see what his ball dominant style has reduced two players the caliber of wade and bosh to. Designated cutter and spot up shooter is all they've become. They must make all the sacrifice and changes to their game to accommodate him while he doesn't have to make any adjustment which would allow them to better help the team. Say what you want about Melo, Kobe and durant, but their offensive versatility at least allows other players to contribute without sacrificing an aspect of their game.

If Lebron could shoot the jumpers conceded to him would this article have even surfaced? I know wade adn bosh never saw this coming. It's sad, really sad. The lineup suggest in the article puts Lebron right back in CLEVELAND playing 5 on 1 kicking out bailout passes for 3 and expecting to win a title.

whats also sad here is that you amongst many other poster here don't realize that a player does not dictate the type of offense they run. They can call a play but thats a set play that should get people involved. Honestly do you even know what plays the heat run? In fact so much the heat offense is about ball movement for open 3s that besides lebron being dumb and dribbling out the clock without running a play they are more likely to run some kind of set plays that they seem to always change up and deliver no results. No one said here lebron shouldn't take any blame btw so...

[360crazy]

Wade/chalmers for Carmelo

[NumberSix]

I'm not buying this "EVERYTHING is Wade's fault" analysis either.

[I.R.Beast]

whats also sad here is that you amongst many other poster here don't realize that a player does not dictate the type of offense they run. They can call a play but thats a set play that should get people involved. Honestly do you even know what plays the heat run? In fact so much the heat offense is about ball movement for open 3s that besides lebron being dumb and dribbling out the clock without running a play they are more likely to run some kind of set plays that they seem to always change up and deliver no results. No one said here lebron shouldn't take any blame btw so...
what are you blabbering about?.... I'm talking about what LeBron's style of play has done to wade and bosh and how he has made no adjustments to his game to allow them to work in unison... The heat offense is catered to LeBron instead of the Big 3 as a unit.

[Anfernee]

This piece is spot on. Sorry it disappoints all of you who would rather just blame LeBron. James definitely needs to step it up, but the bulk of why the Heat are losing is that Wade is not only lacking in contribution, he's become a liability.


Its incredible how a player in his 10th year can barely make a WIDE OPEN mid range shot, all this crap about an injured knee is incredibly overblown. Im pretty sure its harder to dunk on an injured knee than pull up from mid range.
. I cant even remember the last time he hit a 3.

It was Saturday, June 1, Game 7 against the Pacers. That was also the last game he even attempted a 3.

[TrueRob]

Also, D-Wade shoots only 72% from the free throw line. That's pretty lousy for a guy who calls himself a "shooting" guard. He is who he is. He's not going to get much better before he's out of the league. Same for LeBron.

[eriX]

what are you blabbering about?.... I'm talking about what LeBron's style of play has done to wade and bosh and how he has made no adjustments to his game to allow them to work in unison... The heat offense is catered to LeBron instead of the Big 3 as a unit.

lebrons' playstyle in your sense is just ball dominate? How can you be ball dominate if the offense you run doesn't allow you to be? You just said the offense is catered to lebron yet you said he made no adjustment to his game to allow them to work in unison... so if spo decides to run the offense through lebron causing him to hold the ball more it's his fault that his ball dominate and that the offense doesnt involve wade and bosh as much? do i need to go further cause you pretty much ridiculed yourself.

[I.R.Beast]

lebrons' playstyle in your sense is just ball dominate? How can you be ball dominate if the offense you run doesn't allow you to be? You just said the offense is catered to lebron yet you said he made no adjustment to his game to allow them to work in unison... so if spo decides to run the offense through lebron causing him to hold the ball more it's his fault that his ball dominate and that the offense doesn't involve wade and bosh as much? do i need to go further cause you pretty much ridiculed yourself.

the phrase is "ball DOMINANT" not "ball DOMINATE". I am not ridiculing myself. Please show me where I've done that in my post. I merely stated that LeBron's style of play renders star teammates ineffective. You decided to ramble about how offenses are ran etc.

[FPJ]

Wade's fault the Spurs have 500 off rebs, Wade's fault Lebron cant play off the ball, Wade's fault Bosh is a sissy and cant do anything except shoot mid range shots, Wade's fault Lebron doesnt play in the post, Wade's fault Chalmers and Haslem are just standing there on the field.

All this being said, Spo should bench him.

[360crazy]

Wade's fault the Spurs have 500 off rebs, Wade's fault Lebron cant play off the ball, Wade's fault Bosh is a sissy and cant do anything except shoot mid range shots, Wade's fault Lebron doesnt play in the post, Wade's fault Chalmers and Haslem are just standing there on the field.

All this being said, Spo should bench him.

and after the Finals try to get rid of him and chalmers for Carmelo. Someone that is totally comfortable with shooting and would compliment Lebron perfectly.

PG-Lebron
SG- Ray Allen
SF-Carmelo
PF Bosh
C-Greg Oden

[MetsPackers]

Wade has been shit the entire playoffs. He'll literally be wide open then proceed to pump fake nobody and drive into defenders, get stripped and complain to the refs. Lebron definitely hasn't been playing at his best but Wade and Bosh to a degree are playing far much worse and far less aggressive. You can't say Lebron hasn't atleast tried. Wade and Bosh seem like they just don't want it at times, don't even touch the ball for long periods


This team does have it in them to turn it around and win this thing but it's gona take everybody playing at 100%. But if the series ended today, i'd say far more blame should go to Wade and Bosh than Lebron. I think the article is right as far as the spacing and on/off court stuff. I think Wade would be great playing a Ginobili role but he's got too much of an ego for that,

[MetsPackers]

Plus i'm watching ESPN right now and they're shitting on Lebron. That keep showing this clip of him saying "i'll be much better tomorrow night" and going "WILL THE REAL LEBRON JAMES PLEASE STAND UP!?! dun nu nu DUN NU NU"

[tpols]

Plus i'm watching ESPN right now and they're shitting on Lebron. That keep showing this clip of him saying "i'll be much better tomorrow night" and going "WILL THE REAL LEBRON JAMES PLEASE STAND UP!?! dun nu nu DUN NU NU"
Lebron just averaged 30/9/8 or whatever his ridiculous statline was against Indy.. Wade and bosh have at least continued to put up their mediocre/bad numbers, while Lebron has dipped from 30 on 50+% to 16 on 38%. Dropoffs are not comparable.. Bosh is actually playing better in this round. Lebron has had full reigns of this team for two years now, cant decide to fall off a cliff in the Finals a week after being dominant. All on him.

[Jacks3]

Serious question.

Is Wade having the worst post-season for any "superstar" in history?

14/5/4 on historically bad efficiency (49% TS) after a 21/5/5/2/57% TS reg season.

Honestly, I've never seen a star have such a HUGE drop-off.

And what's even more amazing is how little the national media is talking about it.

It's ridiculous.

[AintNoSunshine]

Serious question.

Is Wade having the worst post-season for any "superstar" in history?

14/5/4 on historically bad efficiency (49% TS) after a 21/5/5/2/57% TS reg season.

Honestly, I've never seen a star have such a HUGE drop-off.

And what's even more amazing is how little the national media is talking about it.

It's ridiculous.


Can't drive, can't shoot, can't chase shooters, doesn't rebound anymore. He's been literally shiit. If he somehow catches a sickness and have to sit out the rest of the way, Heat might actually have a better chance.

Otherwise no chance Spo sits him tho:facepalm

[TonyMontana]

Serious question.

Is Wade having the worst post-season for any "superstar" in history?

14/5/4 on historically bad efficiency (49% TS) after a 21/5/5/2/57% TS reg season.

Honestly, I've never seen a star have such a HUGE drop-off.

And what's even more amazing is how little the national media is talking about it.

It's ridiculous.

Wade storylines dont sell. Only LeBron ones do. Its all about the $$$

Just look at this board. Check the first page topics of the site and see how many are about LeBron. League and media knows LeBron is the ticket to $$$$.

Wade is pathetic. The statistical drop off is because the playoffs become more half court oriented. Wade can still run around and put up numbers/efficiency when the game is out of control(which happened a lot with Miami winning 66 games), but he is useless offensively in the half court game. His skills have deteriorated like ****.

[mugiwara]

Wades inability to play in the offense is what drives me crazy. Catches the ball in good spots and thence pumps and spins himself away from where you would want to be. Unless his posting up it should be, pass, shoot or drive. no mucking about trying to look cool all the damn time, he always looks like his trying to flashily out fox players and it segregates him from team play. the ball moves fairly smoothly then wade catches it and its awkward pump fake near travel step double pump fake brick. If you want to play them at the same time post one and have the other handle the ball.

[eriX]

the phrase is "ball DOMINANT" not "ball DOMINATE". I am not ridiculing myself. Please show me where I've done that in my post. I merely stated that LeBron's style of play renders star teammates ineffective. You decided to ramble about how offenses are ran etc.

my bad i was suppose to say dominant not dominate. You said that lebrons play style requires a lot touches yes? And hence because others arent getting as much touch they aren't as useful? Actually now that i look back at your post you didn't even mention how it renders them ineffective and why...

[360crazy]

the phrase is "ball DOMINANT" not "ball DOMINATE". I am not ridiculing myself. Please show me where I've done that in my post. I merely stated that LeBron's style of play renders star teammates ineffective. You decided to ramble about how offenses are ran etc.

This is simply not true. It just depends on the kind of player those teammates are.

Shooters like Durant , Pierce and Carmelo would greatly benefit from playing with a slasher like Lebron. Do you see what the Spurs offense has to do to keep Lebron out of the paint? 3 or 4 defenders close in on him! That would leave guys like Durant, Pierce, and Carmelo wide open. Just think about it.

[arifgokcen]

the phrase is "ball DOMINANT" not "ball DOMINATE". I am not ridiculing myself. Please show me where I've done that in my post. I merely stated that LeBron's style of play renders star teammates ineffective. You decided to ramble about how offenses are ran etc.

Dude please try to look at things objectively.Lebron also plays for USA and we know what he can do with other superstars.Did you know he averaged more assists then anybody on the team including CP.

and look at my post i know he is choking(he probably has some kind of pysh. problem like anxiety disorder) but all these said wade is literally killing the entire heat defense and offense.He doesnt try to defend.Look at green's numbers thats not luck.He is getting wide open looks and moreover as i said nobody defends wade outside paint.Entire spurs defense collapses which kills the miami historically good offense.

[360crazy]

Dude please try to look at things objectively.Lebron also plays for USA and we know what he can do with other superstars.Did you know he averaged more assists then anybody on the team including CP.

and look at my post i know he is choking(he probably has some kind of pysh. problem like anxiety disorder) but all these said wade is literally killing the entire heat defense and offense.He doesnt try to defend.Look at green's numbers thats not luck.He is getting wide open looks and moreover as i said nobody defends wade outside paint.Entire spurs defense collapses which kills the miami historically good offense.

I think the reason Lebron is choking is because he is afraid. AFRAID OF BEING A BALL HOG. He doesn't want his teammates to feel inferior to him...so he isn't as aggressive as he should be. I am 90% sure this is why he chokes and passes when he should be attacking.

[9erempiree]

I think the reason Lebron is choking is because he is afraid. AFRAID OF BEING A BALL HOG. He doesn't want his teammates to feel inferior to him...so he isn't as aggressive as he should be. I am 90% sure this is why he chokes and passes when he should be attacking.

Sounds about right and what's sad, is that he's suppose to be an all time great, you should at least try and break the rules. He should just say F everyone, I'm doing it my way. My teammates are not equal, I am a MVP for a reason. Maybe he knows the award is a joke.

[360crazy]

Sounds about right and what's sad, is that he's suppose to be an all time great, you should at least try and break the rules. He should just say F everyone, I'm doing it my way.

That's not everyone's personality though. I understand because I'm the same way on the court...although I get to the rim at will...I am still passive and pass the ball to scrubs. I understand allll to well. I'm not scared...I'm just too fair. Which I am almost positive is the case with Lebron.

[K Xerxes]

Miami would be a lot better off breaking up the parternship. LeBron and Wade have not found a way to coexist in three years. When one runs the offense, the other stands in the corner and does nothing. And involving Bosh more could be beneficial for LeBron, as is the prospect of Wade no longer being marginalised by LeBron in another team.

But LeBron is too valuable and Wade is too sentimental to trade.

[9erempiree]

Miami would be a lot better off breaking up the parternship. LeBron and Wade have not found a way to coexist in three years. When one runs the offense, the other stands in the corner and does nothing. And involving Bosh more could be beneficial for LeBron, as is the prospect of Wade no longer being marginalised by LeBron in another team.

But LeBron is too valuable and Wade is too sentimental to trade.

Lebron and Wade never had a problem coexisting. They did it before and were great. They were once unstoppable but they never got everything together. They never peaked in their relationship as a duo or trio.

Something is always wrong. I agree they should break it up or play Wade off the bench.

Teams usually have a 3 year window, than they have to add pieces or rebuild. Few teams go to 3 straight Finals and win it all. 2 out of 3 seems like the maximum amount to win. Too many games in that 3 year span. Wade, Bosh and Lebron look tired and old and not very hungry since they won very easily. By joining forces.

[arifgokcen]

I think the reason Lebron is choking is because he is afraid. AFRAID OF BEING A BALL HOG. He doesn't want his teammates to feel inferior to him...so he isn't as aggressive as he should be. I am 90% sure this is why he chokes and passes when he should be attacking.

+11111

The real problem could also be this.Wade-lebron friendship could cost them this series.:roll: :roll: :roll:

That said for the first time in a long time i agree with 9empiree partially at least



Something is always wrong. I agree they should break it up or play Wade off the bench.

They should seriously bring wade off the bench because teams dont defend him.Thats why heat has been much better with lebron on the floor and wade on the bench.

[K Xerxes]

Lebron and Wade never had a problem coexisting. They did it before and were great. They were once unstoppable but they never got everything together. They never peaked in their relationship as a duo or trio.

Yes, they have. Just because they're best buddies or were successful last year doesn't mean they have been cohesive at all in their time together. LeBron is basically a bigger and better version of Wade; their skillset is far too simliar to work together. As I said, when one runs the offense, the other doesn't complement it. I rarely ever see Wade screening for LeBron or the other way around, and whenever they do run the offense, all they get is isos out of it.


Teams usually have a 3 year window, than they have to add pieces or rebuild. Few teams go to 3 straight Finals and win it all. 2 out of 3 seems like the maximum amount to win. Too many games in that 3 year span. Wade, Bosh and Lebron look tired and old and not very hungry since they won very easily. By joining forces.

But the thing is, they haven't won easily. They came close to losing last year and blowing up the whole project. This year, it might happen. The way the team is constructed with LeBron and Wade is wrong. LeBron would be far better with a big man that can grab boards and protect the rim than anything else at this point. When one is on the bench, the others production skyrockets.

[360crazy]

+11111

The real problem could also be this.Wade-lebron friendship could cost them this series.:roll: :roll: :roll:

That said for the first time in a long time i agree with 9empiree partially at least



They should seriously bring wade off the bench because teams dont defend him.Thats why heat has been much better with lebron on the floor and wade on the bench.

Wade has the "killer" mentality. Lebron has the "I'ma look out for you" mentality. In all honesty Wade just hasn't shown up. Lebron is partially at fault too because when wade isn't showing up...Lebron is supposed to tuck that ball into his chest and force defenders to smack him on the way to the rim. NO EXCEPTIONS. When there are 3 or 4 defenders on Lebron...Wade is supposed to be 10 to 15 feet away waiting to knock down a 2 along with Chris Bosh.

[arifgokcen]

Wade has the "killer" mentality. Lebron has the "I'ma look out for you" mentality. In all honesty Wade just hasn't shown up. Lebron is partially at fault too because when wade isn't showing up...Lebron is supposed to tuck that ball into his chest and force defenders to smack him on the way to the rim. NO EXCEPTIONS. When there are 3 or 4 defenders on Lebron...Wade is supposed to be 10 to 15 feet away waiting to knock down a 2 along with Chris Bosh.
He has the killer mentality no doubt but if your body betrays you,you can have all the killer mentality its not gonna matter.I can have all the killer mentality that doesnt mean i can win a game based on my killer mentality.

Dude spurs is giving wade all the space in the world literally.

Again dont get me wrong lebron is choking right now as i said repeatedly but wade is killing the entire heat offense and defense.Spurs at least try to defend miller or allen.They dont defend wade at all.It has been so obvious that commentators(i was watching the finals in my native language) were talking about wade entire time that he shouldnt be starting because he is simply not healthy and his entire game is predicated on getting to the rim its not like he has a jumpshot to rely on like kobe.

I dont like overreactions over a loss but pacers werent able to take advantage of this but pop is the best coach and spurs taking advantage of wade's inability to make any kind of jumper.I still cant understand how a player of his caliber doesnt develop a reliable jumper its baffling.

[360crazy]

He has the killer mentality no doubt but if your body betrays you,you can have all the killer mentality its not gonna matter.I can have all the killer mentality that doesnt mean i can win a game based on my killer mentality.

Dude spurs is giving wade all the space in the world literally.

Again dont get me wrong lebron is choking right now as i said repeatedly but wade is killing the entire heat offense and defense.Spurs at least try to defend miller or allen.They dont defend wade at all.It has been so obvious that commentators(i was watching the finals in my native language) were talking about wade entire time that he shouldnt be starting because he is simply not healthy and his entire game is predicated on getting to the rim its not like he has a jumpshot to rely on like kobe.

I dont like overreactions over a loss but pacers werent able to take advantage of this but pop is the best coach and spurs taking advantage of wade's inability to make any kind of jumper.I still cant understand how a player of his caliber doesnt develop a reliable jumper its baffling.

I agree 100%. Wade is the main cause of the current failure. He's jsut not holding up his end of the bargain. He's putting a lot of weight on Lebron's back.

[aj1987]

Wade is shooting 44% and Lebron 39%. Also, Lebron shouldn't be averaging 2 FT's per game. To the people who haven't watched the games, Miami would be down 3-0, if Wade hadn't kept the game close in the first half.

[r15mohd]

Wade is shooting 44% and Lebron 39%. Also, Lebron shouldn't be averaging 2 FT's per game. To the people who haven't watched the games, Miami would be down 3-0, if Wade hadn't kept the game close in the first half.


Understand that you're a Wade fan and all but he's a liability...he's helped in spurts during these games but for the most part he's been destructive to the Heat more-so than destructive to the Spurs.

The Heat would be better off with Allen in the starting lineup and running PnR's between Bosh and Lebron, having Bosh open for the midrange off the PnR switch or a kickout corner shot to Allen when Lebron's on the drive and the help defender committs. Wade can come in and, hopefully, keep momentum on the 2nd string against the Spurs role fillers.

I remember when the playoffs started and they were interviewing DWade, he was stating this title is all about him...he said 2006 was for Zo, last year for Lebron and this year the title is for himself. Sure isn't playing like he wants it tho :confusedshrug:

[305Baller]

Maybe Spo will start Mike Miller tonight.

[arifgokcen]

Maybe Spo will start Mike Miller tonight.
I really think you guys would beat spurs if miller was starting.

[HurricaneKid]

To the people who haven't watched the games, Miami would be down 3-0, if Wade hadn't kept the game close in the first half.

Wade is -36 for the series with some shameful defense (on top of the embarrassing offense). Mike Miller is +26 for the series. That is an enormous differential based almost entirely on the spacing differences.

If Wade never came in its quite possible Miami would be UP 2-1.

[ReturnofJPR]

Wade is one of the most overreated, most STD infested, dead beat dads that ever lived. That's why his nickname is STD-Wade.

[DMAVS41]

Of course Wade playing poorly/injured is not helping, but that isn't the issue.

Wade is not preventing Lebron from playing well. It's Lebron's inept jumper that has failed him yet again when the bright lights are on. That is it. It's quite simple.

Pack the paint...go under screens...dare Lebron to shoot. Lebron isn't a great shooter to begin with, but he's not only in a slump, but has lost his confidence as well.

This is 2011 all over again. And Lebron looks just as mentally weak as he did then...he's letting it impact (so far) the other parts of his game. He isn't as aggressive...his defense is suffering. He just looks lost out there.

Not on anyone but Lebron.

It's fascinating to watch really.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Wade was doing very well off the ball in the first half. Like....pretty much the best you can do off the ball without a jumper. When he has the ball in his hands the Spurs pick him up and he literally can't score, but off the ball he's a decent threat.

So the premise that he kills their spacing is wrong. Bosh missing 17 footers kills their spacing much more than Wade does.

It's annoying that Wade fans are crying about his injury as if that's preventing him from playing well. Dude had a bone bruise or something - literally nothing. He was resting for the playoffs the entire damn season. If he's not healthy that is one him. Find another excuse. Unless you want to cry about a knee injury from three years ago. Equally stupid.

[Jacks3]

How is he not killing their spacing? Look at how far his man is cheating off him.

They're literally not bothering to guard him when he's stationed out behind the 3-pt line. There's a reason the Heat offense has been far, far better when he's on the bench.

[PJR]

Wade's my favorite player ever, but he's learned a hard lesson this postseason. And it's that you can only go so long with out being able to catch and shoot, or shoot without a live dribble. He's been able to get away with it for so long due to natural talent, and a great first step. But now it's caught up, and he is killing the spacing.


Dude's been out there pumpfaking when guys go < 5 feet under the screen. No one around him. He's just gotta start shooting that shot. Hit or miss.

[ReturnofJPR]

Wade's my favorite player ever, but he's learned a hard lesson this postseason. And it's that you can only go so long with out being able to catch and shoot, or shoot without a live dribble. He's been able to get away with it for so long due to natural talent, and a great first step. But now it's caught up, and he is killing the spacing.


Dude's been out there pumpfaking when guys go < 5 feet under the screen. No one around him. He's just gotta start shooting that shot. Hit or miss.

Wade is not good enough to flip a switch and turn it on although he thinks he is. Wade has long disrespected the NBA, the fans, his team, and his competitors by not giving it his all. Wade didn't even try until the NBA Finals. That's nothing short of disrespectful.

[arifgokcen]

Of course Wade playing poorly/injured is not helping, but that isn't the issue.

Wade is not preventing Lebron from playing well. It's Lebron's inept jumper that has failed him yet again when the bright lights are on. That is it. It's quite simple.

Pack the paint...go under screens...dare Lebron to shoot. Lebron isn't a great shooter to begin with, but he's not only in a slump, but has lost his confidence as well.

This is 2011 all over again. And Lebron looks just as mentally weak as he did then...he's letting it impact (so far) the other parts of his game. He isn't as aggressive...his defense is suffering. He just looks lost out there.

Not on anyone but Lebron.

It's fascinating to watch really.

Dude as i said in my first post lebron is choking no denying that but wade is killing the entire team.Even with this lebron they could still win because of their bench as long as they keep wade off the floor.There is a reason lebron without wade produces some amazing numbers.Lebron lost confidence but when floor is spread he still has the most lethal drive game so you gotta respect him.

[plowking]

Wade is not good enough to flip a switch and turn it on although he thinks he is. Wade has long disrespected the NBA, the fans, his team, and his competitors by not giving it his all. Wade didn't even try until the NBA Finals. That's nothing short of disrespectful.

I thought I was reading a post about Rose til it got to the finals sentence, and then I remember Rose has never reached the finals.

[zizozain]

ReturnofJPR
why is that **** following you in every thread

[aj1987]

Wade is -36 for the series with some shameful defense (on top of the embarrassing offense). Mike Miller is +26 for the series. That is an enormous differential based almost entirely on the spacing differences.

If Wade never came in its quite possible Miami would be UP 2-1.
And Lebron is -6 for the series. You want to bench him as well? Andersen is +6. You want him to start as well? +/- is a horrible indicator of how a person is actually playing. Lebrons TS% is 44% for the series. Sure, you can play Mike Miller for the 40 minutes instead of Wade. What he scores on the offensive end, he'll give up on the defensive end. Granted, Wade played horrible defense in game 2, he was pretty decent in the first 2.

There's a reason why Miller comes of the bench and plays 15 minutes. He can't handle the load of playing a whole game. Also, he has been hot this series. In the other 3 series, he was shooting near 35% and 28%. (from the 3). His DRTG, btw, is 121.

Miami would be up 2-1? Miami would've lost game 3 even if Allen and Miller played for 48 minutes. As for game 2, it would've been a blowout, if Wade didn't go off for 12 points and 6 assists in the first half. Lebron was non existent during the first half and Wade was keeping the game close. Lets not forget that in game 3, Wade actually kept the game close in the first half. He was 5-7 for 12 points. Wade has been playing shitty this series, but he's not the reason for Miami being down 2-1. You can blame Lebron for scoring 16 points on 18 shots per game.

[konex]

Wade isn't playing great but blaming him for LeBron's struggles is GARBAGE. When Bron plays well, no one gives Wade any credit

[tpols]

The +26 and -36 stats are misleading because the bulk of that plus action came during game 2 for Mike Miller when the Heat went on a 3 pt scoring barrage coupled with the fact hes shooting like 90% from 3 for the series and the minus action came when Wade was in while they got curb stomped in game 3.

Aside from those two stretches they havent been remarkeably better with miller on the floor over Wade. Plus miller has a bad back.. he cant go for more than 20 minutes per game and hes a straight defensive liability. Spurs also started to attack him in the PnR last game to wear him out since he was the only one keeping them in the game with his unreal shooting.

[r15mohd]

Wade isn't great but blaming him for LeBron's struggles is GARBAGE. When Bron plays well, no one gives Wade any credit

All 3 have stunk it up but Wade is equally to blame for the teams downfall with Lebron on this one. It's clear a day to see that, if Wade can create for himself and not just throw up bricks or unforced turnovers, it would releive some pressure off Lebron to attack and get something going. But with the defense collapsing onto Lebron everytime he penetrates, it's almost impossible to attack and draw a legitimate foul or a descent shot.

Bosh can take some of the blame too, but Spo misuses him by putting him behind the arc...so it's more Spo for that error. Keep Bosh at the elbow and have him hit that automatic jumper and have defenders commit to his presence on the court.

as far as Wade getting credit...majority of the Heat games it's Lebron creating for himself and for others. You don't see that much from Wade so giving Wade credit is hard-pressed when he's gaining off of Lebron or pump-faking for a shot majority of the time.

[konex]

I'm not saying Wade can't be criticized (his defense has been bad and he's doing nothing in the 2nd halves)

However, I'm not going to blame him for LeBron's inability (so far) to make wide open jumpers when the Heat don't have a comfortable lead

[r15mohd]

And Lebron is -6 for the series. You want to bench him as well? Andersen is +6. You want him to start as well? +/- is a horrible indicator of how a person is actually playing. Lebrons TS% is 44% for the series. Sure, you can play Mike Miller for the 40 minutes instead of Wade. What he scores on the offensive end, he'll give up on the defensive end. Granted, Wade played horrible defense in game 2, he was pretty decent in the first 2.

There's a reason why Miller comes of the bench and plays 15 minutes. He can't handle the load of playing a whole game. Also, he has been hot this series. In the other 3 series, he was shooting near 35% and 28%. (from the 3). His DRTG, btw, is 121.

Miami would be up 2-1? Miami would've lost game 3 even if Allen and Miller played for 48 minutes. As for game 2, it would've been a blowout, if Wade didn't go off for 12 points and 6 assists in the first half. Lebron was non existent during the first half and Wade was keeping the game close. Lets not forget that in game 3, Wade actually kept the game close in the first half. He was 5-7 for 12 points. Wade has been playing shitty this series, but he's not the reason for Miami being down 2-1. You can blame Lebron for scoring 16 points on 18 shots per game.

again, you gotta put aside your love for Wade...it's Lebron and Wade, and to a lesser extent Bosh that they aren't performing (Spo too). Allen is sinking shots, so is Miller. Chalmers is filling in, at times, as well so the role players are there. But it's equal on Lebron and Wade for this bad play, more so Wade because this post season he's had maybe 1-2 games where he's been average, not even great...just average. Lebron can only do so much...every penetration its 2-3 defenders minimum, Wade is being played straight up and no help on any drives. They don't respect him one bit, as the article highlighted, right now.

whether it be hurt or decline, Wade is hampering Miami and they would benefit with a shooter sinking down shots right now rather than Wade's bricklaying and pump-faking/unforced turnovers. yea he's had a couple good spurts during the playoffs but if you can't see that he's underperforming at a huge level, then it's more your emotional tie to Wade than objective view of the playoffs so far.

[r15mohd]

I'm not saying Wade can't be criticized (his defense has been bad and he's doing nothing in the 2nd halves)

However, I'm not going to blame him for LeBron's inability (so far) to make wide open jumpers when the Heat don't have a comfortable lead


this is tru...it is wide open jumpers, there is no excuse for Lebron to be missing so many open shots other than him being out of touch with his jumper. however, this is when Lebron resorts to driving and forcing his way to the rim...hard to do that when Wade is also playing passive and just irrelevant on the court to where his defender is almost always playing help defense on Lebron once he puts the ball on the floor, not to mention other collapsing Spurs to Lebron.

everyone goes cold time n again on their shots, but superstars are supposed to find other ways to score and (at times) rely on outside presence to assist in that. this is especially tru with the Heat and the way they've been contructed, and their overall gameplan under Spo.

Lebron will be attacking from the get go tonight, we can foresee that happening after these first 3 games...he should play this way outright, but due to gameplan it's been about getting everyone else involved first, which is a step backwards to winning for the Heat IMO. Want to win, let Lebron take off and everyone follow suit...it's a proven method, all last year in the playoffs...all throughout this season and earlier in the playoffs. Just gotta hold your end when on the court in spacing the floor to help him create...everyone wins when he's able to do this.

[DMAVS41]

Obviously Lebron is a much better player right now than Wade, but it goes both ways.

Could you pick a worse running mate for Wade? Wade has had to change his entire game to play with the ball dominant Lebron that doesn't like to shoot outside shots.

If you made Lebron play off the ball this much and cut...etc. He wouldn't be as good at it as Wade has been (when healthy) the last couple years.

[DMAVS41]

The +26 and -36 stats are misleading because the bulk of that plus action came during game 2 for Mike Miller when the Heat went on a 3 pt scoring barrage coupled with the fact hes shooting like 90% from 3 for the series and the minus action came when Wade was in while they got curb stomped in game 3.

Aside from those two stretches they havent been remarkeably better with miller on the floor over Wade. Plus miller has a bad back.. he cant go for more than 20 minutes per game and hes a straight defensive liability. Spurs also started to attack him in the PnR last game to wear him out since he was the only one keeping them in the game with his unreal shooting.

This. Even with Miller virtually not missing...the Heat's defense suffers so much.

Like you said...the Heat live off of turnovers and misses..and with Miller out there...it just seems so much harder for the Heat to do both.

They really might have to go back to Battier and just hope he starts hitting again...

[tpols]

Obviously Lebron is a much better player right now than Wade, but it goes both ways.

Could you pick a worse running mate for Wade? Wade has had to change his entire game to play with the ball dominant Lebron that doesn't like to shoot outside shots.

If you made Lebron play off the ball this much and cut...etc. He wouldn't be as good at it as Wade has been (when healthy) the last couple years.
Lebron is a difficult teammate for a superstar or even allstar teammate to play alongside. People think its just hating but his ball dominance is worse than anybody in the history of the game..

Allen Iverson chucked up tons of shots but he also played off the ball and used a lot of screens to get open before he would attack. He could play a game that wasnt just isos. As much as Kobe is criticized for chucking, he still played many years in a triangle system where he would feed the ball to his big men and move without the ball. It allows others to shine.

Lebron, for the vast majority of the time in a half court set, is all about isos and PnRs where the finisher is either spot up shooting or getting some other type of open shot.

And it honestly works most of the time because Lebron is too big and skilled to steal the ball from, but when he shrinks like he has so many times in the playoffs and people start criticizing his teammates its like WTF? This dude has been running everything and now he decides he wants to take a step back and let others shine? lol shouldve thought about that a long time ago Bron.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron is a difficult teammate for a superstar or even allstar teammate to play alongside. People think its just hating but his ball dominance is worse than anybody in the history of the game..

Allen Iverson chucked up tons of shots but he also played off the ball and used a lot of screens to get open before he would attack. He could play a game that wasnt just isos. As much as Kobe is criticized for chucking, he still played many years in a triangle system where he would feed the ball to his big men and move without the ball. It allows others to shine.

Lebron, for the vast majority of the time in a half court set, is all about isos and PnRs where the finisher is either spot up shooting or getting some other type of open shot.

And it honestly works most of the time because Lebron is too big and skilled to steal the ball from, but when he shrinks like he has so many times in the playoffs and people start criticizing his teammates its like WTF? This dude has been running everything and now he decides he wants to take a step back and let others shine? lol shouldve thought about that a long time ago Bron.

I agree with a lot of this. I also think Wade happens to play a style that is a terrible fit around Lebron.

I mean. Guys like Duncan, KG, and Dirk would be great fits around Lebron's style. Dirk especially with his lack of need to dominate the ball...3 point shooting to space the floor...and post up game late in games...etc.

The perfect superstar team for Lebron would have been prime Ray Allen at sg and prime Dirk at pf....

But you don't always get a perfect team...and like you said...when he shrinks like this....he's just not good.

[ReturnofJPR]

Lebron is a difficult teammate for a superstar or even allstar teammate to play alongside. People think its just hating but his ball dominance is worse than anybody in the history of the game..

Allen Iverson chucked up tons of shots but he also played off the ball and used a lot of screens to get open before he would attack. He could play a game that wasnt just isos. As much as Kobe is criticized for chucking, he still played many years in a triangle system where he would feed the ball to his big men and move without the ball. It allows others to shine.

Lebron, for the vast majority of the time in a half court set, is all about isos and PnRs where the finisher is either spot up shooting or getting some other type of open shot.

And it honestly works most of the time because Lebron is too big and skilled to steal the ball from, but when he shrinks like he has so many times in the playoffs and people start criticizing his teammates its like WTF? This dude has been running everything and now he decides he wants to take a step back and let others shine? lol shouldve thought about that a long time ago Bron.

And this is why LeBron will fail time and again. He's a cancer for a team. He doesn't know what sharing the ball is because it is so out of character for himself to do so. When he actually does get players involved, he plays himself right out of the game because that's not who he is. He's a ball hog. He's good enough to beat 95% of the teams out there, but not the Spurs...

[Rubio2Gasol]

When the defense ignores him he keeps the defense honest with his cuts. The Heat usually have 2-3 good shooters out there, they just have to make shots. It's pointless getting on the guy who has never had anything resembling a good shot.

[aj1987]

again, you gotta put aside your love for Wade...it's Lebron and Wade, and to a lesser extent Bosh that they aren't performing (Spo too). Allen is sinking shots, so is Miller. Chalmers is filling in, at times, as well so the role players are there. But it's equal on Lebron and Wade for this bad play, more so Wade because this post season he's had maybe 1-2 games where he's been average, not even great...just average. Lebron can only do so much...every penetration its 2-3 defenders minimum, Wade is being played straight up and no help on any drives. They don't respect him one bit, as the article highlighted, right now.

whether it be hurt or decline, Wade is hampering Miami and they would benefit with a shooter sinking down shots right now rather than Wade's bricklaying and pump-faking/unforced turnovers. yea he's had a couple good spurts during the playoffs but if you can't see that he's underperforming at a huge level, then it's more your emotional tie to Wade than objective view of the playoffs so far.
I did say that Wade is playing like shit, but you can't ignore facts. Game 2 would've been a blowout in favor of the Spurs, if not for Wade in the first half. 12 points and 6 assists when Lebron went MIA. In game 3, Wade was the one who kept the game close in the first half. 5/7 for 12 points. If Lebron showed up in the second half, the Heat might've won. I'll blame Wade as well, as he was virtually nonexistent in the second half. All I'm stating are facts. Not my opinions.

As I said before, playing Miller in place of Wade for 40 minutes won't work. The guy can hardly play for 20 minutes. With his broken back, he would give up more points that he scores, even if he hits 80% of his 3's. Even though Wade is horrible right now, he's better than Miller or even Allen. Have you seen Miller play in Game 3? He was holding onto his back after every shot he took and after every time he sprinted.

Also, it's absolutely bullshit that Lebron can't get past Kawhi. Remember Kobe going against a Prime Spurs team? He was guarded by Bowen. One of the best defenders of all time. He totally destroyed them. A Spurs team with a Prime Duncan. He scored 26/6/6 on 46% in 2004. Although they lost in '03, he scored 32/5/4 on 44%. 26/5/5 on 46% in '02. 33/7/7 on 52% in '01. Please don't use the excuse that Lebron's being double teamed. The guy's a 4 time MVP. He should be averaging more than 16 points on 18 shots per game.

[BlazersDozen]

This is funny because I was going to make a thread before Game 3 asking for opinions on starting Ray Allen or Mike Miller over Dwyane Wade but didn't do it because I didn't want to be flamed to Hell.

I feel like the way the Spurs are playing LeBron, he needs to ALWAYS have shooters on the floor & he's doesn't have that with the starting line up at all. Spo sat Battier out of the Indy series because of match ups and not playing well, he needs to do the same with Wade because I feel Miami would be much more effective offensively if Allen or Miller started at shooting guard because they have a higher chance of hitting shots.

[tmacattack33]

The +26 and -36 stats are misleading because the bulk of that plus action came during game 2 for Mike Miller when the Heat went on a 3 pt scoring barrage coupled with the fact hes shooting like 90% from 3 for the series and the minus action came when Wade was in while they got curb stomped in game 3.

Aside from those two stretches they havent been remarkeably better with miller on the floor over Wade. Plus miller has a bad back.. he cant go for more than 20 minutes per game and hes a straight defensive liability. Spurs also started to attack him in the PnR last game to wear him out since he was the only one keeping them in the game with his unreal shooting.

So that stat is misleading because when Miller was on the floor in game 2 they went on an amazing run, and their big drought in game 3 came when Wade was on the floor?

I guess what you are saying is there is a small sample size right now in the Finals, since it's only been three games.

But I bet that over the entire playoffs, Miami has played better when Wade's been on the bench as well.

Him and Lebron are a terrible match. This isn't groundbreaking news though. We knew they weren't a good match, but they used to be good enough that it didn't matter.

[arifgokcen]

When the defense ignores him he keeps the defense honest with his cuts. The Heat usually have 2-3 good shooters out there, they just have to make shots. It's pointless getting on the guy who has never had anything resembling a good shot.
Right now good shot for him is only layup or dunk.He can make anything outside paint.Thats the problem.You can live off the cuts but only if someone else is penetrating or there is space to operate in the paint.With wade's man in paint constantly those cuts are very rare.

[catquickspider]

Blame Wade for Lebron's inability to hit jumpers! :biggums:

[pauk]

Blame Wade for Lebron's inability to hit jumpers! :biggums:


Due to Wade/Bosh playing bad it allows them to go all in on Lebron, it becomes often 1 vs 5.... Lebron drives past the first one just to meet a trap of 4 bodies, either forcing to take a circus shot or pass the ball.... the guy that will be open in that situation is most often Wade on the perimeter, they have ZERO respect for Wade on the perimeter.... forcing him to pass him the ball there which still becomes a bad offensive possession because Wade has completely lost his jumpshot...

Spurs are extremly smart... and when Lebron doesnt have his jumpshot they make it even tougher for him to drive as they retreat back and dare him to shoot....

This defensive system Spurs are using is the best against one-man-army teams... which Miami is playing right now, due to Wade/Bosh.... if Wade/Bosh were playing up to their standards then Lebron wouldnt be scoring this bad either as it opens up lanes for him and everybody........

Lebron would be able to get MUCH easier baskets and MUCH more baskets if Wade was playing up to his standards.... because then the Spurs wouldnt be able to get away with going all in on Lebron defensively, it would relieve defensive pressure on Lebron.... right now they are throwing everybody and their mamas at him defensively.... and its working great as long as Wade/Bosh keep doing their 12 PPG in Finals....

[r15mohd]

I did say that Wade is playing like shit, but you can't ignore facts. Game 2 would've been a blowout in favor of the Spurs, if not for Wade in the first half. 12 points and 6 assists when Lebron went MIA. In game 3, Wade was the one who kept the game close in the first half. 5/7 for 12 points. If Lebron showed up in the second half, the Heat might've won. I'll blame Wade as well, as he was virtually nonexistent in the second half. All I'm stating are facts. Not my opinions.

As I said before, playing Miller in place of Wade for 40 minutes won't work. The guy can hardly play for 20 minutes. With his broken back, he would give up more points that he scores, even if he hits 80% of his 3's. Even though Wade is horrible right now, he's better than Miller or even Allen. Have you seen Miller play in Game 3? He was holding onto his back after every shot he took and after every time he sprinted.

Also, it's absolutely bullshit that Lebron can't get past Kawhi. Remember Kobe going against a Prime Spurs team? He was guarded by Bowen. One of the best defenders of all time. He totally destroyed them. A Spurs team with a Prime Duncan. He scored 26/6/6 on 46% in 2004. Although they lost in '03, he scored 32/5/4 on 44%. 26/5/5 on 46% in '02. 33/7/7 on 52% in '01. Please don't use the excuse that Lebron's being double teamed. The guy's a 4 time MVP. He should be averaging more than 16 points on 18 shots per game.

I'm not ignoring them, definitely understand where you

[Rubio2Gasol]

Right now good shot for him is only layup or dunk.He can make anything outside paint.Thats the problem.You can live off the cuts but only if someone else is penetrating or there is space to operate in the paint.With wade's man in paint constantly those cuts are very rare.

Nope.

1. You can live off cuts if you have a passer with the acuity, vision and contextual awareness to play the defense and find you on cuts instead a) Taking a jumper or b) Driving himself or c) Pass to a closed down shooter.

2. The Heat have the best outside shooting in the league other than Golden State. They prepared for this. They built their team to assuage the spacing problem. In the paint - Duncan and Splitter are the ones making life difficult, and the people responsible for making these guys a non factor can't make a shot.

[r15mohd]

So that stat is misleading because when Miller was on the floor in game 2 they went on an amazing run, and their big drought in game 3 came when Wade was on the floor?

I guess what you are saying is there is a small sample size right now in the Finals, since it's only been three games.

But I bet that over the entire playoffs, Miami has played better when Wade's been on the bench as well.

Him and Lebron are a terrible match. This isn't groundbreaking news though. We knew they weren't a good match, but they used to be good enough that it didn't matter.


they bump heads, thats for sure...but when both healthy, their athleticism allows them to play great together. we've seen it...the win streak had a healthy Wade and him putting up 24+ pts a game I beleive, all while Lebron constructed the offense and got his. Wade's injury/decline (whatever it is) doesn't allow that right now and why the Heat are suffering in the Finals.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Pauk - So basically - it's difficult having huge offensive responsibility when other players can't make shots?

Who knew.......

[arifgokcen]

Nope.

1. You can live off cuts if you have a passer with the acuity, vision and contextual awareness to play the defense and find you on cuts instead a) Taking a jumper or b) Driving himself or c) Pass to a closed down shooter.

2. The Heat have the best outside shooting in the league other than Golden State. They prepared for this. They built their team to assuage the spacing problem. In the paint - Duncan and Splitter are the ones making life difficult, and the people responsible for making these guys a non factor can't make a shot.

Dude first of all nice post.I have never seen anyone use so many different words here in a long time

1-Dude in order to live off cuts you have to have space and spurs and pop are well aware of this fact so they dont allow anything in the paint by completely collapsing.Pop will lose the game outside not inside.Even in the second game they gave away wide open shots but no free shots in the paint.Thats the point.

2-Well true

[Rubio2Gasol]

I must be watching something different. But when Wade is in the paint he is still looking good. Finishing around the rim and making some pretty tough shots. You don't need space to live off cuts.

You need someone to deliver the ball into the paint (not exactly a cakewalk) - so that Wade can catch and make a move. Once in the paint he can do basically anything.

It's only when the defense focuses on Wade and makes him force up a jumper that he looks truly shit.

[arifgokcen]

I must be watching something different. But when Wade is in the paint he is still looking good. Finishing around the rim and making some pretty tough shots. You don't need space to live off cuts.

You need someone to deliver the ball into the paint (not exactly a cakewalk) - so that Wade can catch and make a move. Once in the paint he can do basically anything.

It's only when the defense focuses on Wade and makes him force up a jumper that he looks truly shit.
I guess you must be watching something different

lets see what happens

6 hours and 2 minutes

[HurricaneKid]

And Lebron is -6 for the series. You want to bench him as well? Andersen is +6. You want him to start as well? +/- is a horrible indicator of how a person is actually playing. Lebrons TS% is 44% for the series. Sure, you can play Mike Miller for the 40 minutes instead of Wade. What he scores on the offensive end, he'll give up on the defensive end. Granted, Wade played horrible defense in game 2, he was pretty decent in the first 2.

There's a reason why Miller comes of the bench and plays 15 minutes. He can't handle the load of playing a whole game. Also, he has been hot this series. In the other 3 series, he was shooting near 35% and 28%. (from the 3). His DRTG, btw, is 121.

Miami would be up 2-1? Miami would've lost game 3 even if Allen and Miller played for 48 minutes. As for game 2, it would've been a blowout, if Wade didn't go off for 12 points and 6 assists in the first half. Lebron was non existent during the first half and Wade was keeping the game close. Lets not forget that in game 3, Wade actually kept the game close in the first half. He was 5-7 for 12 points. Wade has been playing shitty this series, but he's not the reason for Miami being down 2-1. You can blame Lebron for scoring 16 points on 18 shots per game.

The thing is Wade has been worse defensively. And if you think a 3 game stretch is a poor sample size why are you pointing to a guy who was playing :13 in some games. In fact, Miller had only played more than 6 1/2minutes in 4 games this postseason; Miami won 3 of those games by a combined 71 points.

The floor just looks better when both Miller and Allen out there. And while you would think they would be poor defensively with them out there they really haven't been bad against SA who doesn't exactly have them overmatched athletically.

You grossly overstate Miller's limitations. He started Miami's last 13 games, playing >20 min in each with a high of >36 min. This is with B2Bs and everything.

And its weird the cherrypicking you do. Saying the Heat couldn't have possibly have won without Wade's 5 1st half baskets and completely ignoring his 0-6 second half. The truth is Wade hasn't been efficient enough to make a point of taking the ball from the best player on earth to get him his stats. I REALLY hope they don't make a point of doing it again either.

[arifgokcen]

The thing is miami doesnt need ath. guys against spurs.They need healthy guys who can consistently chase around shooters of spurs.Spurs are not gonna beat you as a individual unlike OKC.They will beat you as a team so you have to have discipline and energy to consistently defend those guys.You only need a great defender against parker thats it.Even duncan is not a threat(at least at 37)

So starting miller and allen would do wonders for miami.

Of course lebron has to play like lebron instead of choking but i feel like this move would open up the floor and allow lebron to penetrate.Lets see what happens

I still expect a spurs win tonight

[HurricaneKid]

His DRTG, btw, is 121.


Well in this series his DRTG is 102.5 (ORTG 128.3)

Wade's DRTG is 114.7 and his ORTG is a mere 97.1.

Soo...

[TheMarkMadsen]

Damn the Alts come out

[aj1987]

The thing is Wade has been worse defensively. And if you think a 3 game stretch is a poor sample size why are you pointing to a guy who was playing :13 in some games. In fact, Miller had only played more than 6 1/2minutes in 4 games this postseason; Miami won 3 of those games by a combined 71 points.
Are you serious? Wade has been terrible on defense in the third game alone. He was pretty decent in the other two. So, Mike Miller playing over 6 and 1/2 minutes in those 3 games helped Miami win them by a combines 71 points?
FYI, Mike Miller played for over 10 minuted in 7 games this post season.


You grossly overstate Miller's limitations. He started Miami's last 13 games, playing >20 min in each with a high of >36 min. This is with B2Bs and everything.
And? Regular Season =/= Post Season. If you watch Miller play, he constantly holds his back is sometimes very slow to get back. Especially after taking a shot are sprinting for a short while. If he does play over 35 minutes, he might be fine for the first 15-20 minutes. After that he's going to hurt Miami defensively. Miller also can't create his own shot so he'll be redundant if his defender decides to stick on him. Pop knows that Wade can create his own shot, even if he's hurt. He won't take as many risks on Wade that he will on Miller. That's the difference between a superstar and a role player.


And its weird the cherrypicking you do. Saying the Heat couldn't have possibly have won without Wade's 5 1st half baskets and completely ignoring his 0-6 second half. The truth is Wade hasn't been efficient enough to make a point of taking the ball from the best player on earth to get him his stats. I REALLY hope they don't make a point of doing it again either.
Wade scored 10 (my bad. said he scored 12 in my previous post) points in the first half, when Lebron went off for 4 points on 2-7. Not only did he score 10 points, he also has 6 assists. Watch the game again and tell me that the Miami would have led the Spurs by 5, if it wasn't for Wade scoring and distributing in the first half. Please do. Wade made 5-10 in the first half in game two. He missed a tip in and two floaters after that. One of which was in garbage time. That's 0-3 not 0-6. The shooters we hitting their shots in the third and Wade didn't bother much. He missed a tip in and a floater during the third.
Well, the best player in the world is taking 18 shots a game and scoring 16 points. Wade is taking 14.3 and scoring 14.3 points. If you want to use TS%, Wade is scoring at 46.2% and Lebron is at 44.1%. EFG%? Wade is at 44.2% and Lebron is at 41.7%. Wade also doesn't eat up the shotclock as much as Lebron does. Now tell me. WHY shouldn't Wade take more shots than Lebron, when Wade's more efficient? However you look at it, Wade has been scoring more efficiently than Lebron. At this point, we should just replace Lebron with Miller.

I saw several plays in the 3rd game, during which "the best player in the world" dribbled the ball around for ~16 seconds and couldn't do crap with it.
Well in this series his DRTG is 102.5 (ORTG 128.3)


Wade's DRTG is 114.7 and his ORTG is a mere 97.1.

Miller is at 121.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millemi01/gamelog/2013/#72-74-sum:pgl_advanced_playoffs

[aj1987]

Do people still want to replace Wade with Miller?

[Rubio2Gasol]

Wade entered the classic - "So overrated he became underrated" mold - it's hilarious :roll:

It will switch around again if they win too :lol

[Hoopz2332]

they only looked bad because Wade isn't/wasn't healthy. They had perfect chemistry during 20 of the 27 games of the streak until Wade got hurt. Wade is going at cutting off lebron when he's healthy but Wade can't cut with a bum knew so he was staying in one spot which was bad for the Heat because wade doesn't hit spot up shots.