Is Jeff Van Gundy on crack?

[Knicksfever2010]

Saying that Wade is in the top 4-5 in terms of 2-guards?

-Jerry West
-Kobe Bryant
-Michael Jordan
-Clyde Drexler
-Allen Iverson

[dawsey6]

2-time champ with one of the greatest Finals performances of all-time, is it really that much of a stretch to say he's better than AI?

[Knicksfever2010]

2-time champ with one of the greatest Finals performances of all-time, is it really that much of a stretch to say he's better than AI?

Just to be clear, championships = better player? I guess Robert Horry is better than Patrick Ewing.

Has Allen Iverson ever had a teamate like Shaq or Lebron James?

[CelticBaller]

that greatest dickriding

[chips93]

jordan
kobe
west
wade

[dude77]

Just to be clear, championships = better player? I guess Robert Horry is better than Patrick Ewing.

Has Allen Iverson ever had a teamate like Shaq or Lebron James?

it's not just the championship .. it's his performance in it .. one of the BEST EVER on the BIGGEST STAGE ..

using that argument about having a star teammate is stupid .. all great teams have multiple stars on it

[Day La Ghetto]

Hes regarded 3rd by most. west most people havent seen and clyde?? Thats a joke

[bmulls]

You act like he has no business being in the discussion and then you list Clyde Drexler and Allen Iverson :roll: :roll: :roll:

[MavsSuperFan]

can splitter ever finish?

[fpliii]

:wtf:

He's near-universally top 5. Most lists I've seen have him top 4.

[dawsey6]

Just to be clear, championships = better player? I guess Robert Horry is better than Patrick Ewing.

Has Allen Iverson ever had a teamate like Shaq or Lebron James?

Way to miss the point. Has AI ever played a Finals series as well as Wade in 06?

I didn't think so.

[alexd]

Saying that Wade is in the top 4-5 in terms of 2-guards?

-Jerry West
-Kobe Bryant
-Michael Jordan
-Clyde Drexler
-Allen Iverson

how can u put clyde and not oscar robertson?

[AintNoSunshine]

Just to be clear, championships = better player? I guess Robert Horry is better than Patrick Ewing.

Has Allen Iverson ever had a teamate like Shaq or Lebron James?


Retarded comment:oldlol:

[The JKidd Kid]

This has to be one of the best thread titles ever :roll: :roll: :roll:

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Jordan
Kobe
Wade


that's your top 3 all-time SG's.

[Heavincent]

I don't like Wade at all, but he's definitely a top 5 SG. Probably 4th best.

[pmj]

Just to be clear, championships = better player? I guess Robert Horry is better than Patrick Ewing.

Has Allen Iverson ever had a teamate like Shaq or Lebron James?

Umm Nuggets?

[Warners0]

I guess Rick Barry never played basketball

[dawsey6]

I guess Rick Barry never played basketball

He did play basketball. He was a great small forward.

[1987_Lakers]

Wade is better than Drexler and Iverson.

[Champ]

I guess Rick Barry never played basketball

Or John Havlicek.

[memetherapy]

He's right. 3rd best all time... and Iverson??? Seriously?

[deja vu]

I rank Drexler and Jerry West ahead of Wade.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

I rank Drexler and Jerry West ahead of Wade.

And some people still think the world is flat :lol:

[TheCorporation]

Saying that Wade is in the top 4-5 in terms of 2-guards?

-Jerry West
-Kobe Bryant
-Michael Jordan
-Clyde Drexler
-Allen Iverson

West is overrated.
Kobe and Jordan are obviously in the top 3.
Drexler had great teammates around him, but if Wade gets another chip, he has to be considered better. Hell, he already is right now by most anyway...
Iverson um lol...Volume scorer? No Championships. Not efficient. I'd say you are on crack for putting Iverson in the top 5 over Wade.

[TheReal Kendall]

He has been saying crazy shit all night but I see nothing wrong with putting Wade up there.

I thought A.I was a pg but I still got Wade over him.

[StackzUp]

Jordan
Kobe/Wade

Wade is 2 or 3 depending on who you ask. Iverson is not even in the same league.

[chopchop20]

West is overrated.
Kobe and Jordan are obviously in the top 3.
Drexler had great teammates around him, but if Wade gets another chip, he has to be considered better. Hell, he already is right now by most anyway...
Iverson um lol...Volume scorer? No Championships. Not efficient. I'd say you are on crack for putting Iverson in the top 5 over Wade.

If you think Wade is better than Jerry West, you're on crack

[fpliii]

If you think Wade is better than Jerry West, you're on crack

He could have West as a PG instead.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

If you think Wade is better than Jerry West, you're on crack

West was a PG.

And if you want to place him at SG, West is the 2nd best all time then. he's better than kobe, go look up his stats and accomplishments. And he did that before the 3pt line ever existed. West has better scoring on better efficiency and better stats.

[Human Error]

Saying that Wade is in the top 4-5 in terms of 2-guards?

-Jerry West
-Kobe Bryant
-Michael Jordan
-Clyde Drexler
-Allen Iverson
Drop dead you idiot. Iverson and Drexler?? :roll:

[chopchop20]

Later in his career, West was a point guard (led the league in assists)

[chopchop20]

West was a PG.

And if you want to place him at SG, West is the 2nd best all time then. he's better than kobe, go look up his stats and accomplishments. And he did that before the 3pt line ever existed. West has better scoring on better efficiency and better stats.

West was the original "MJ' in terms of clutchness and greatness. That's why he's the logo. He'll never be higher than Kobe because of his record in the Finals though.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

West was the original "MJ' in terms of clutchness and greatness. That's why he's the logo. He'll never be higher than Kobe because of his record in the Finals though.

That's not fair though. Celtics had a ton of HoFers.

[chopchop20]

That's not fair though. Celtics had a ton of HoFers.

If you listen to interviews with those old Celtic players, they always said Wes t was the best.

One interesting fact about West.... he won the Finals MVP when his team LOST. Think he averaged like 39 points per game

[deja vu]

And some people still think the world is flat :lol:
It's my opinion, not an undisputed fact.

[Clifton]

LOL @ OP. Has anything ever looked more out of place than AI next to the "Big 4" of Jordan, West, Drexler, and Kobe?

And yes Wade is obviously the fifth guy. We can argue about the order of Kobe, Wade, Drex, and West, but that's the second tier at that position it seems to me.

[DMAVS41]

He's the 4th best sg ever in my opinion.

Not crazy at all.

Why do people think 1 playoffs makes a career?

Wade has averaged;

24/5/5/2/1 on 56% TS for his career in the playoffs (9 years)

4 trips to the finals, 2 titles (maybe 3 in a few days), 1 finals mvp

honestly, the only two sg's that for sure deserve to be ranked over him are MJ and Kobe if he racks up another title this year...

[DaSeba5]

He's the 4th best sg ever in my opinion.

Not crazy at all.

Why do people think 1 playoffs makes a career?

Wade has averaged;

24/5/5/2/1 on 56% TS for his career in the playoffs (9 years)

4 trips to the finals, 2 titles (maybe 3 in a few days), 1 finals mvp

honestly, the only two sg's that for sure deserve to be ranked over him are MJ and Kobe if he racks up another title this year...

This

[LikeABosh]

Yea, because it's soooo abundantly clear that Iverson and Drexler are far superior, right? I think you are on crack.

[aj1987]

Can the people listing Drexler and AI tell me why they are better than Wade?

[chopchop20]

He's the 4th best sg ever in my opinion.

Not crazy at all.

Why do people think 1 playoffs makes a career?

Wade has averaged;

24/5/5/2/1 on 56% TS for his career in the playoffs (9 years)

4 trips to the finals, 2 titles (maybe 3 in a few days), 1 finals mvp

honestly, the only two sg's that for sure deserve to be ranked over him are MJ and Kobe if he racks up another title this year...

Wade disappears a LOT lately in the playoffs. And his excuse is always injuries.

[aj1987]

Wade disappears a LOT lately in the playoffs. And his excuse is always injuries.
Still doesn't take away the fact that he had one of the greatest Finals performances of all time. Another legendary one 2011 (should've won that one!). Lastly a pretty good one in 2012. He hasn't even had a single bad playoff run untill this years. Last year, he scored 23/5/4/2/2 on 46% playing with an injury that required surgery.

Also, Wade is miles ahead of Drexler and AI on the defensive end.

[jrong]

Saying that Wade is in the top 4-5 in terms of 2-guards?

-Jerry West
-Kobe Bryant
-Michael Jordan
-Clyde Drexler
-Allen Iverson

Wade blew past Drexler long ago. I'm not going to do the work for you. Go to Basketball Reference and spend five minutes looking at each player's page.

And the only possible way you can rank Iverson over him is if you think all that matters is scoring. And he's not even a better scorer because Wade is so much more efficient. He may be a better outside shooter, but even that is debatable because AI was such a volume chucker.

And Wade is literally better at everything else a player can do on the basketball court.

Jordan/Bryant/West/Wade

[chopchop20]

Still doesn't take away the fact that he had one of the greatest Finals performances of all time. Another legendary one 2011 (should've won that one!). Lastly a pretty good one in 2012. He hasn't even had a single bad playoff run untill this years. Last year, he scored 23/5/4/2/2 on 46% playing with an injury that required surgery.

Also, Wade is miles ahead of Drexler and AI on the defensive end.

Still... too many questions every year about his head and heart. And spare me the stats... on paper, LeBron looks like he's had a great Finals this year

[chopchop20]

Wade blew past Drexler long ago. I'm not going to do the work for you. Go to Basketball Reference and spend five minutes looking at each player's page.

And the only possible way you can rank Iverson over him is if you think all that matters is scoring. And he's not even a better scorer because Wade is so much more efficient. He may be a better outside shooter, but even that is debatable because AI was such a volume chucker.

And Wade is literally better at everything else a player can do on the basketball court.

Jordan/Bryant/West/Wade

1st three are in order... Maybe Drexler? Though he never was really dominant IMO

AI had heart, and he was a fearless gunner. But Wade's impact on defense trumps that

[Dro]

Im not sure if this thread was ever supposed to be taken serious...

[aj1987]

Still... too many questions every year about his head and heart. And spare me the stats... on paper, LeBron looks like he's had a great Finals this year
Doesn't matter how many people question him. Is he delivering? Hell yeah (except this years playoffs). Only the results matter. The critics and people who question him can shut up.
I'll forget about the stats and look at achievements.

2X NBA Champion
1X NBA FMVP
9X All-Star
Multiple All-NBA Teams
Multiple All-Defensive Teams
If I ignore the stats, his resume looks better than West's resume (considering that Wade hasn't retired yet and will make more All-Star and All-NBA teams)

Once again, bro. Please tell me a single reason as to why Wade isn't #4?

[chopchop20]

Doesn't matter how many people question him. Is he delivering? Hell yeah (except this years playoffs). Only the results matter. The critics and people who question him can shut up.
I'll forget about the stats and look at achievements.

2X NBA Champion
1X NBA FMVP
9X All-Star
Multiple All-NBA Teams
Multiple All-Defensive Teams
If I ignore the stats, his resume looks better than West's resume (considering that Wade hasn't retired yet and will make more All-Star and All-NBA teams)

Once again, bro. Please tell me a single reason as to why Wade isn't #4?

Dude, you can't just "turn it on" every other game or ever few games.

Wade disappeared against the Bulls

Wade disappeared against Indiana

Wade has disappeared against the Spurs.

Luckily, he has the luxury of playing with LeBron. So when he doesn't show up, Miami still has a good chance of winning.

AND... you need to check all the stats before you say Wade is better than West. Dude was called Mr Clutch for a reason

[aj1987]

Dude, you can't just "turn it on" every other game or ever few games.

Wade disappeared against the Bulls

Wade disappeared against Indiana

Wade has disappeared against the Spurs.

Luckily, he has the luxury of playing with LeBron. So when he doesn't show up, Miami still has a good chance of winning.

AND... you need to check all the stats before you say Wade is better than West. Dude was called Mr Clutch for a reason
As I said plenty of times before, Wade played like shit this year. I'm not arguing against that all. I just wanted to know what reason there is to put Drexler or AI ahead of Wade.

Dude was indeed clutch as ****, except for when it mattered the most.

[chopchop20]

As I said plenty of times before, Wade played like shit this year. I'm not arguing against that all. I just wanted to know what reason there is to put Drexler or AI ahead of Wade.

Dude was indeed clutch as ****, except for when it mattered the most.

Honestly, I wouldn't put Drexler ahead of Wade, WHEN Wade is giving 100% effort.

Personally, AI doesn't compare to Wade... though others might argue

West actually put up better numbers during the playoffs. It's not too common that guys have better playoff numbers than regular season. And I think that West's 29 PPG in the playoffs is still Top 5 all time. Better than Kobe (26) and Wade (24)

[aj1987]

Honestly, I wouldn't put Drexler ahead of Wade, WHEN Wade is giving 100% effort.

Personally, AI doesn't compare to Wade... though others might argue

West actually put up better numbers during the playoffs. It's not too common that guys have better playoff numbers than regular season. And I think that West's 29 PPG in the playoffs is still Top 5 all time. Better than Kobe (26) and Wade (24)
Well, I guess we do have similar opinions. You might reconsider Wade/Drexler after Wade retires. Until then, :cheers:

[chopchop20]

Well, I guess we do have similar opinions. You might reconsider Wade/Drexler after Wade retires. Until then, :cheers:

Indeed :cheers:

[LikeABosh]

Wade>>>Iverson. Not even worth discussing with anyone who thinks otherwise, because it's clear they are a basketball retard

[KG215]

Umm....it's be more absurd if he didn't think Wade was a top 5 SG all-time.

[jrong]

Still... too many questions every year about his head and heart.

What?? I'll give you that he's dealt with psychological factors at times since James came to town, but heart? His heart has never been in question.

Of course, the eternal question is his body....


Honestly, I wouldn't put Drexler ahead of Wade, WHEN Wade is giving 100% effort.

Seriously, basketballreference.com

Look at Wade's page then Drexler's. But, here's the Cliff Notes:

Wade > Drexler in:

1. career stats
2. peak stats
3. prime stats
4. Wade's top 8 seasons are already better than Drexler's top 8
5. advanced stats
6. accolades
7. Wade can go left and dribbles with his head up.
8. Wade only defers to LeBron James, not Terry Porter.

(Ok, the last two you can't get from B-Ref. But, seriously, Wade settled this shit long ago.)

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Wade is not "disappearing"

He's playing the 2nd option role to LeBron, and he's not always comfortable with it.

Wade is still the same guy who could lead a team if LeBron was still in Cleveland, as you saw tonight.

[chopchop20]

Wade is not "disappearing"

He's playing the 2nd option role to LeBron, and he's not always comfortable with it.

Wade is still the same guy who could lead a team if LeBron was still in Cleveland, as you saw tonight.

Good point. And the media always assumes that Wade is 100% OK with that

[DMAVS41]

Wade disappears a LOT lately in the playoffs. And his excuse is always injuries.

A LOT? Then how has he averaged 24/5/5/2/1 on high efficiency over a 9 year playoff career. With 41 of his 128 playoff games being played as a 2nd option on a team that directly impacts his numbers?

People keep acting like this year in the playoffs is normal Wade. That is a joke. This is the first time in his career he's looked even remotely like this in the playoffs.

[chopchop20]

What?? I'll give you that he's dealt with psychological factors at times since James came to town, but heart? His heart has never been in question.

Of course, the eternal question is his body....



Seriously, basketballreference.com

Look at Wade's page then Drexler's. But, here's the Cliff Notes:

Wade > Drexler in:

1. career stats
2. peak stats
3. prime stats
4. Wade's top 8 seasons are already better than Drexler's top 8
5. advanced stats
6. accolades
7. Wade can go left and dribbles with his head up
8. Wade only defers to LeBron James, not Terry Porter.

(Ok, the last two you can't get from B-Ref. But, seriously, Wade settled this shit long ago.)

Please don't confuse me as being a Drexler fan. I respect his career but he'll never be anywhere near my all-time great list.

Wade just leaves you scratching your head way too much. But when he's on, he's a beast

[chopchop20]

A LOT? Then how has he averaged 24/5/5/2/1 on high efficiency over a 9 year playoff career. With 41 of his 128 playoff games being played as a 2nd option on a team that directly impacts his numbers?

People keep acting like this year in the playoffs is normal Wade. That is a joke. This is the first time in his career he's looked even remotely like this in the playoffs.

I watch the Games, not the Stats... Same questions were there last year too.

It goes without saying how great he can be when he's at his best.

[DMAVS41]

I watch the Games, not the Stats... Same questions were there last year too.

It goes without saying how great he can be when he's at his best.

But the stats are what they are for a reason. You don't gets stats without producing. You simply can't disappear a LOT for a 9 year playoff career and average those numbers. It's actually impossible.

And those numbers are obviously hampered by playing next to Lebron...and some of that inconsistency comes from playing out of his comfort zone.

[chopchop20]

But the stats are what they are for a reason. You don't gets stats without producing. You simply can't disappear a LOT for a 9 year playoff career and average those numbers. It's actually impossible.

And those numbers are obviously hampered by playing next to Lebron...and some of that inconsistency comes from playing out of his comfort zone.

Stats don't measure impact. Some guys put up great stats when they win, but what are the stats when they lose? Are the numbers still as consistent?

Do stats measure clutchness? A player could shoot 0 -12 during the 1st 3 quarters and hit 8 - 8 in the 4th quarter. FG% under 50%, but could be the deciding factor in the win.

I think it's interesting that Wade has talked recently about the struggles of finding his flow while playing with LeBron. I don't think many people really consider that.. similar to Shaq/Kobe. It's not easy when you're a dominant player

[DMAVS41]

Stats don't measure impact. Some guys put up great stats when they win, but what are the stats when they lose? Are the numbers still as consistent?

Do stats measure clutchness? A player could shoot 0 -12 during the 1st 3 quarters and hit 8 - 8 in the 4th quarter. FG% under 50%, but could be the deciding factor in the win.

I think it's interesting that Wade has talked recently about the struggles of finding his flow while playing with LeBron. I don't think many people really consider that.. similar to Shaq/Kobe. It's not easy when you're a dominant player

Of course. And Wade has been good to great in all of those areas his entire playoff career.

Wade having to play with Lebron is a lot harder than Kobe playing with Shaq. Lebron and Wade essentially play the exact same style....and Wade has to share looks with Bosh as well.

Kobe/Shaq were essentially a big 2...and they complimented each other very well actually. That is just infinitely different than 2 ball dominant perimeter players that don't consistently hit from range trying to make it work together.

[sportjames23]

Saying that Wade is in the top 4-5 in terms of 2-guards?

-Jerry West
-Kobe Bryant
-Michael Jordan
-Clyde Drexler
-Allen Iverson


Wade >>>>> Iverson, bro.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Wade >>>>> Iverson, bro.
Wrong.

[atljonesbro]

If any of you actually think Drexler or Iverson should be ranked higher than Wade you probably need to go get an MRI.

[FPJ]

Wrong.

Wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iverson? :confusedshrug:

[sportjames23]

Wrong.


How so? Tell me how Iverson is better than Wade.

[TheReturn]

I'm not going to get into Jerry West being better or not, but as far as 'recent' years go, Wade is the third best SG I've seen. Only Kobe and MJ are better.

[305Baller]

Wrong.
It's pretty established that Wade>Iverson

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wade is definitely better than Drexler and Iverson. In his prime, he simply had a better skill set than Drexler, and was a more dominant player who was more capable of taking over a game and getting his shot whenever he wanted. As far as Iverson, Wade was more well-rounded and a much easier player to build around and incorporate into a contending team due to Iverson being 6'0" shooting guard and a volume shooter.

[Mr Exlax]

Wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iverson? :confusedshrug:

Wade>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iverson? :confusedshrug:

[Akhenaten]

West was the original "MJ' in terms of clutchness and greatness. That's why he's the logo. He'll never be higher than Kobe because of his record in the Finals though.

So if Wade ends up winning 3 of 4 or 4 of 5 Finals, you'll have him ahead of West right.

Could you imagine a superstar player in this rea going 1-8 in the Finals, that guy wouldn't be able to walk the streets :oldlol:

this is why I don't get into comparing people who played 30-50 yrs ago to current players, old guys are given allowances that would NEVER be given to current payers.

I don't care what the mitigating factors are, if DWade, Lebron, CP, Tim Duncan, Dirk, Durant had a 1-8 record in the Finals NO ONE WOULD GIVE A CRAP ABOUT "WHY"...NOBODY!

if any of these guys had a 1-8 record in the Finals they would be CRUCIFIED, much less with multiple HOF teammates, they DAMN SURE wouldn't be no damn logo or be considered "clutch". West got MOPPED by Walt Frazier in the Finals and the one Finals he did win in he didn't play particularly well.

Get the hell outta here with Jerry West and his inflated stats.

Jordan
Kobe/Wade
Drex
Iverson