Report: Alex Len "likely" choice for Cavs at No. 1

[D-Rose]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/17/report-alex-len-likely-choice-for-cavaliers-at-no-1/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[QUOTE] Jimmy Smith @JimmySmith504

Hearing that C Alex Len, who visited with #Pelicans on Friday, is now the likely choice for #Cavs at No. 1 spot in next week's draft.

The Cavaliers probably don

[KyrieTheFuture]

el oh el yea right

[TheWINdyCity]

Cav fans better hope not lol

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Apparently, Len has been crushing it on the circuit.
Solid all around with lots of upside.

With no clearcut #1, teams are going to be taking these guys based on need.
And the Cavs certainly have NEED at his position.

[Shade8780]

Wtf!

[FreezingTsmoove]

^^^^ Oh look the ISH draft scouts are out again!

Alex Len will be a great pick.

[dbk123]

Lol

[dzav323]

Apparently, Len has been crushing it on the circuit.
Solid all around with lots of upside.

With no clearcut #1, teams are going to be taking these guys based on need.
And the Cavs certainly have NEED at his position.
Len was in a boot when he "workout" with the Pelicans. Please define crushing it.

[Rekindled]

el oh el yea right

actually multiple cavs reporters like Jason lloyd also reported the same thing. Cavs have good connection to Len with Big Z working for them.

[LosBulls]

People are underrating this draft. Len has potential to be a great player.

[Johnny Jones]

Porter might fall to the Pels! If Cavs take Len with the first pick, I see the Wizards taking Noel, causing Porter to fall. :rockon: :rockon:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Len was in a boot when he "workout" with the Pelicans. Please define crushing it.

He is still making the circuit.
"crushing it": moving up everyone's draft board.
See rumors page and Sam Amico's twitter.

[IGOTGAME]

In that case, trade the pick!

[outbreak]

I was on the Len bandwagon watching him match up with Noel early in the year.I'd never heard of him but his game looked smooth and he had great offence. Thought he'd climb once teams actually saw him play but first pick though? Not so sure on that....
I'd still take Noel on potential, mclemore, oladipo and porter over him.
Noel could be a guy who gets a GM fired though.

[RedBlackAttack]

This time last year, the Cavs were "very likely" to take Harrison Barnes. He and Kyrie are great friends, it was reported. He had awesome workouts, they said.

In actuality, Waiters and MKG were going to be the guys all along. Waiters never even worked out for the Cavs (or anyone else).

Smoke. Screen.

[DukeDelonte13]

I don't get why a lot of people link Z and len together. I don't think Z has any special connection to the guy.


Also all the cavs beat writers have maintained that they really don't know, and that the cavs are extremely tight-lipped with draft stuff. They only speculate as to who is going first and its usually the flavor of the week prospect.

Len will probably contribute more the Noel in the short term but Noel's ceiling is so much higher, and his advanced stats are so much better.

Len also has a stess fracture in his ankle which has a much higher chance of being a recurring problem than Noel's torn acl.

Len also played inconsistently while Noel just kept on getting better and better.

I really don't understand why so many cavs fans are OBSESSED with len.

[IGOTGAME]

I haven't watch many unlv games but Bennett seems like the most intriguing prospect. Why not trade down for him?

[DukeDelonte13]

I haven't watch many unlv games but Bennett seems like the most intriguing prospect. Why not trade down for him?

he's def. intriguing. Potential ROY candidate. Trading down from #1 in this draft would be damn near impossible.

[Rekindled]

I haven't watch many unlv games but Bennett seems like the most intriguing prospect. Why not trade down for him?

because he is a 6'6 PF that plays no defense?

[IGOTGAME]

he's def. intriguing. Potential ROY candidate. Trading down from #1 in this draft would be damn near impossible.
I really wanted the Cavs to get a legit talent at #1...sucks that this draft is so weak up top. One year off from two franchise changing players! I'd still gamble with Bennett or try to trade down to 2 -5.

[IGOTGAME]

because he is a 6'6 PF that plays no defense?
He is 6"7 with a 7"1 wingspan and seems to really no how to play. He also seems like a top notch athlete. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned into a knock down shooter either based on his form. I could see a legit scoring threat on the high and a good defender as well. No one posts up anymore so he should be more than fine against at pf.

[Twiens]

I haven't watch many unlv games but Bennett seems like the most intriguing prospect. Why not trade down for him?
Agreed, best player in this draft. Would actually be a perfect #2 option beside Kyrie

[PleezeBelieve]

Drafting 6'7 PF who play poor D... we off that.

You people are clueless. Just like you hyped Thmas Robinson as a perfect running mate for Kyrie last year.

Anyway, Cavs better not blow this. Noel needs to be the pick because he will be the best player from this draft. It's really, really, really simple.

[Twiens]

Drafting 6'7 PF who play poor D... we off that.

You people are clueless. Just like you hyped Thmas Robinson as a perfect running mate for Kyrie last year.

Anyway, Cavs better not blow this. Noel needs to be the pick because he will be the best player from this draft. It's really, really, really simple.
Robinson is just an athlete, Bennett is a stone cold baller. But good luck with your Larry Sanders clone.

[Bobcats2013]

Alex Len belongs in Philly. I hope the Cavs don't take him.

[IGOTGAME]

Drafting 6'7 PF who play poor D... we off that.

You people are clueless. Just like you hyped Thmas Robinson as a perfect running mate for Kyrie last year.

Anyway, Cavs better not blow this. Noel needs to be the pick because he will be the best player from this draft. It's really, really, really simple.
Your history of draft analysis is quite....:facepalm

Btw...I told y'all bums to draft Drummond. Again, right move.

[GOBB]

Trade the pick. That is the best move to make.


Alex Len belongs in Philly. I hope the Cavs don't take him.

No thanks. :no:

[iDunk]

Worst 1st pick since "Kwamay" Brown.

[PleezeBelieve]

Robinson is just an athlete, Bennett is a stone cold baller. But good luck with your Larry Sanders clone.
What the hell is a stone cold baller? :oldlol:

Good luck to a 6'7 PF playing against 6'9 PFs every day.

I mean, you all are serious right?

[IGOTGAME]

Guy looks like he has a little Anthony Mason or LJ in him based on highlights...but they are only highlights and I'd have to see a lot more. Just seems like everyone is poop in this draft. At least he is interesting.

[FreezingTsmoove]

This time last year, the Cavs were "very likely" to take Harrison Barnes. He and Kyrie are great friends, it was reported. He had awesome workouts, they said.

In actuality, Waiters and MKG were going to be the guys all along. Waiters never even worked out for the Cavs (or anyone else).

Smoke. Screen.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269154&page=2

[CJ Mustard]

This time last year, the Cavs were "very likely" to take Harrison Barnes. He and Kyrie are great friends, it was reported. He had awesome workouts, they said.

In actuality, Waiters and MKG were going to be the guys all along. Waiters never even worked out for the Cavs (or anyone else).

Smoke. Screen.
Why would you need a smoke screen when you're drafting 1st overall?

[FreezingTsmoove]

Why would you need a smoke screen when you're drafting 1st overall?

:applause:

[IGOTGAME]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269154&page=2
Yea, should have just drafted Barnes...

[RedBlackAttack]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269154&page=2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266517

The thread you posted was put up the day of the draft, when someone finally got wind of their actual plan. Up until then, it was Barnes, Beal, MKG.... Whichever guy was there.

[DukeDelonte13]

Why would you need a smoke screen when you're drafting 1st overall?

if you are trying to trade the pick you don't want teams knowing which guy you really like.

[RedBlackAttack]

Yea, should have just drafted Barnes...
Still not wild about Barnes. I think Waiters has a much higher ceiling.

[RedBlackAttack]

Why would you need a smoke screen when you're drafting 1st overall?
The answer is quite obvious if you think about it.

[DukeDelonte13]

Yea, should have just drafted Barnes...

Dion > Barnes and its not even that close.

[IGOTGAME]

Still not wild about Barnes. I think Waiters has a much higher ceiling.
Really, I've been impressed. What's not to like? Good shooter n finisher who is developing a nice mid post game. Looks like a championship piece.

I'm shocked by this Waiters love...undersized wild slashing combo guards ftw! I just don't see him as a starter on a really good team.

[chips93]

Apparently, Len has been crushing it on the circuit.
Solid all around with lots of upside.

hasnt he been hurt and unable to workout?

id be happy enough with len.

in terms of fit he is perfect. tristan is short doesnt really block shots and cant shoot, and len could potentially make up for tristans main deficiencies.

[CJ Mustard]

The answer is quite obvious if you think about it.
I don't see the Cavs trading down. This is a weak all around draft and you're not gonna get much for that pick IMO.

[chips93]

Len will probably contribute more the Noel in the short term but Noel's ceiling is so much higher, and his advanced stats are so much better.

Len also has a stess fracture in his ankle which has a much higher chance of being a recurring problem than Noel's torn acl.

noel has had issues with that same knee in HS though, this is, as far as i know, the first time len has hurt that ankle.

im not sure about noels ceiling being higher either. len has far more potential offensively. he is bigger, he has shooting touch, and some post game. noel has pretty much no offensive game. i have a hard time seeing noel developing a decent offensive game, pretty much from scratch.

what are the advanced stats you are talking about?

[chips93]

Your history of draft analysis is quite....:facepalm

Btw...I told y'all bums to draft Drummond. Again, right move.

you also told me valanciunas was a cant miss all-star, and that jeremy lamb would be great :rolleyes:

[BlazersDozen]

People are still saying Bennett has defensive potential? He doesn't even look interested in playing defense at all.

How is somebody who doesn't WANT to play defense have any defensive potential?

Let us not forget about the last 6'6" PF who came into the league who was actually a good defender in college...where is he now?

Obviously, Bennett's offense is going to keep him off the end of the bench like Blair but he's undersized to play PF & too slow to play SF in the NBA. He'll be a scorer off the bench by his 3rd-4th year in the league, maybe contending for 6th man of the year honors. Reminds me more of Rodney Rogers than Larry Johnson.

[IGOTGAME]

you also told me valanciunas was a cant miss all-star, and that jeremy lamb would be great :rolleyes:
Said Jonas will be an all star. Stay tuned. He just wasn't used properly.

Said lamb would develop into really good player. Said he would be an all star. I stand by both of these statements. Especially the Lamb one.

I also told you about Drummond.

Edit: lol @ you writing off a young talented 7 footer after his rookie season.

I'd take Jonas over Len 10/10 times. If Jonas was in a real organization he development would be a lot quicker. Too bad the Raptors are crap.

[RedBlackAttack]

Really, I've been impressed. What's not to like? Good shooter n finisher who is developing a nice mid post game. Looks like a championship piece.

I'm shocked by this Waiters love...undersized wild slashing combo guards ftw! I just don't see him as a starter on a really good team.
Waiters was pigeon-holed early in his rookie season as being an inefficient chucker. If you watched him a lot after the All-Star break, you might feel a little differently. His efficiency really started to come around (I think he was around 45% from the floor in the last couple months of the season) and his mid-range game took some major leaps forward.

I don't think 6-4 is undersized for a 2 in today's game. That is probably close to the median height, I'd guess. And, the guy is built like a brick sh!thouse.

Very athletic with a wicked first step and a very nice handle. By all indications, he is a total gym rat, too. Reports say he has been working like a wildman this offseason.


Barnes stepped his game up in the playoffs which is obviously a great sign for him, but I don't think GSW fans were exactly overwhelmed with his production in the regular season. He has a nice shooting stroke and is athletic around the basket, but he has a very unsteady handle and he has trouble in a playmaking role.

Good all-around player, but not someone I see as improving by leaps and bounds over the next few years.

[chips93]

this draft thing can be kinda easy

anybody could go out and pick some high risk high reward prospects, say ''players X,Y & Z are all gonna be all-stars'', gloss over their weaknesses, amplify their strengths, and then when one of them fulfills his potential, bump the threads, and act like a genius

it doesnt make you some draft guru.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't see the Cavs trading down. This is a weak all around draft and you're not gonna get much for that pick IMO.
You work all possible scenarios if you're the Cavs, regardless of how likely or unlikely you think a trade would be.

There is no good reason for them to tip their hand. It serves no productive purpose. Keeping teams behind you guessing that maybe you'll take the guy they want? That could feasibly result in something positive.

The Cavs didn't even tell Kyrie he was going to be the pick in 2011. He didn't know, all the way up until the draft. I doubt Sam Amico, who has a history of getting it totally wrong, is being told the Cavs' real plans at this stage of the process.

[GoRapz]

Oh please this would be a great way to compensate for the Cavs lucking out and getting high picks every year. Screw up your draft selections like you have the past two years :oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

Oh please this would be a great way to compensate for the Cavs lucking out and getting high picks every year. Screw up your draft selections like you have the past two years :oldlol:
Oh yes... Common wisdom is the Cavs should have taken Val in 2011 and TRob in 2012.

Kyrie/Dion/Thompson >>>> Kyrie/Val/TRob

Everyone was crushing the Cavs last year because, had we not taking TT in 2011, that would free the franchise up to take TRob, who was obviously the best player at No. 4. Guy has already been traded twice. lol

[fos]

They should draft McLemore and use Waiters as a 6th man. Would have been sweet if they drafted Barnes last year... Cavs have been doing some terrible drafting (Waiters, Thompson). Could you imagine what they'd look like with Kyrie, McLemore, Barnes, and Jonas Valančiūnas??? That would be tits. Still can't believe they took Thompson over Valančiūnas. :hammerhead: :banghead:

[RedBlackAttack]

They should draft McLemore and use Waiters as a 6th man. Would have been sweet if they drafted Barnes last year... Cavs have been doing some terrible drafting (Waiters, Thompson). Could you imagine what they'd look like with Kyrie, McLemore, Barnes, and Jonas Valančiūnas??? That would be tits. Still can't believe they took Thompson over Valančiūnas. :hammerhead: :banghead:
Thompson averaged a double-double last year as a 21-year-old and he still hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential. Waiters was second in the rookie class in scoring and First Team All Rookie in a pretty damn good class.

McLemore is overrated, too.

[IGOTGAME]

this draft thing can be kinda easy

anybody could go out and pick some high risk high reward prospects, say ''players X,Y & Z are all gonna be all-stars'', gloss over their weaknesses, amplify their strengths, and then when one of them fulfills his potential, bump the threads, and act like a genius

it doesnt make you some draft guru.
Never said I was a draft guru. But I've been on ish 10 years and I've done pretty well projecting guys. I've had misses like Danny Green and Roy Hibbert and but I've had hits like Drummond and DAndre Jordan and Rubio etc.

I'm not glossing over weaknesses, I just don't interpret there skill sets the same as many, this is especially true with post players.

But, all in all, it's just good ole fun. I enjoy talking about prospects even more than watching the games at times.

[chips93]

They should draft McLemore and use Waiters as a 6th man. Would have been sweet if they drafted Barnes last year... Cavs have been doing some terrible drafting (Waiters, Thompson). Could you imagine what they'd look like with Kyrie, McLemore, Barnes, and Jonas Valančiūnas??? That would be tits. Still can't believe they took Thompson over Valančiūnas. :hammerhead: :banghead:

jonas made it clear to the cavs that he didnt want to come to cleveland.

so tristan in hindsight was still probably the best option. leonard would have been a huge reach at the time, hes the only other player available that is definitely better than tristan.

[GoRapz]

Oh yes... Common wisdom is the Cavs should have taken Val in 2011 and TRob in 2012.

Kyrie/Dion/Thompson >>>> Kyrie/Val/TRob

Everyone was crushing the Cavs last year because, had we not taking TT in 2011, that would free the franchise up to take TRob, who was obviously the best player at No. 4. Guy has already been traded twice. lol

Kyrie/Val/Barnes >>> Kyrie/Thompson/Dion

[Twiens]

you also told me valanciunas was a cant miss all-star, and that jeremy lamb would be great :rolleyes:
You serious? Val was already dominating games late in his rookie year. He'll be an all star eventually.

[chips93]

Never said I was a draft guru. But I've been on ish 10 years and I've done pretty well projecting guys. I've had misses like Danny Green and Roy Hibbert and but I've had hits like Drummond and DAndre Jordan and Rubio etc.

I'm not glossing over weaknesses, I just don't interpret there skill sets the same as many, this is especially true with post players.

But, all in all, it's just good ole fun. I enjoy talking about prospects even more than watching the games at times.

its all good :cheers:

i definitely take the draft way too serious at times. no point getting upset on draft night, nothing is certain, gotta wait and see how the players perform.

[chips93]

FWIW waiters scored more than mclemore on a per minute basis.

mclemore just got more minutes

[Sarcastic]

Cavs about to mess up another post Kyrie draft.

[GoRapz]

jonas made it clear to the cavs that he didnt want to come to cleveland.

No he didn't. He made it clear that whatever team was going to draft him that he was going to stay overseas for a year before coming over. With the Cavs rebuilding that year I still don't see why they don't take JV @ 4. Stash him overseas for a year and likely get a higher pick the next year too

[noob cake]

Kyrie/Val/Barnes >>> Kyrie/Thompson/Dion

Where are the Knight/Williams > Irving/Thompson or Val crowd?

They were pretty loud pre-draft.

[chips93]

Kyrie/Val/Barnes >>> Kyrie/Thompson/Dion

who at the time, had barnes as a better prospect than robinson?

[chips93]

No he didn't. He made it clear that whatever team was going to draft him that he was going to stay overseas for a year before coming over. With the Cavs rebuilding that year I still don't see why they don't take JV @ 4. Stash him overseas for a year and likely get a higher pick the next year too

chad ford claims he gave the cavs the run around, and let them know that he could stay overseas for several years, if they drafted him.

[GoRapz]

who at the time, had barnes as a better prospect than robinson?

Yeah, at the time TRob was rated as a better prospect than Barnes but I think the real question you want to ask is Barnes or Dion? I don't see why the Cavs would even contemplate on taking TRob seeing as how they already have TT.

[ReturnofJPR]

He's the Next Big Z. Why not?

[chips93]

Yeah, at the time TRob was rated as a better prospect than Barnes but I think the real question you want to ask is Barnes or Dion? I don't see why the Cavs would even contemplate on taking TRob seeing as how they already have TT.

i thought it was what the cavs could have done, if they could re-do the last two drafts, so they could have taken valanciunas in 2011, and then could have taken barnes or robinson



i think RBA already made the cavs fans' case for dion over barnes. dions a more dynamic player, a more skilled guy, a player who is capable of actually creating offense.

[RedBlackAttack]

The Cavs were very high on Val and I have no doubt he would have been the pick had his agent not given the team the runaround. It is well documented that his agent wanted him in Toronto, for whatever reason. He was telling the Cavs it might be several years before he could come over.

And, Tristan has been very good, both on and off the court. From reports I've heard from insiders, Tristan has already grown into a leadership role on the team in the lockerroom. That is something that can't be measured statistically.

The growth he's made over his first two years is so massive, no one who hasn't witnessed it on a night-in, night-out basis could appreciate it. His offensive game is lightyears ahead of where I thought it would be at this stage and he's already a borderline elite rebounder and a very good defender.

He has absolutely lived up to his slot in the 2011 draft so far.

As for Barnes, I think people watched him the in the playoffs and deduced that he had played that way all season. He hadn't.

There is a reason Waiters received more votes than him for the All-Rookie team. He had a better season and I think he has much more upside.

[StocktonFan]

Just like you don't question laker's ability to rebuild, you dont question Cav's ability to draft.

[IGOTGAME]

Just like you don't question laker's ability to rebuild, you dont question Cav's ability to draft.
Why wouldn't you question the Lakers ability to rebuild. They have done a shitty job of it lately?

[chips93]

Just like you don't question laker's ability to rebuild, you dont question Cav's ability to draft.

why not actually respond to any of the claims otherwise?

there have been several posts in this thread, detailing why, some of us believe that the cavs have done pretty decently in the draft. why not just respond to one of these, explaing why you think otherwise?

[StocktonFan]

why not actually respond to any of the claims otherwise?

there have been several posts in this thread, detailing why, some of us believe that the cavs have done pretty decently in the draft. why not just respond to one of these, explaing why you think otherwise?

Well historically, cavs have drafted great players... do i really need any more of a reason to not question their moves?

Same for the lakers ability to rebuild. Sure last year was a disappointment, but who wouldn't have taken a chance of nash/gasol/dwight/kobe/whoever? high risk big gains, generally how business goes. Lakers did it in 04 and failed but hey, that' business.

[chips93]

Well historically, cavs have drafted great players... do i really need any more of a reason to not question their moves?

im not sure 'historically' is relevent though. the current fron office has only been in place for 3 years.

[PleezeBelieve]

Waiters had a better year than Beal. Shot better from the floor except from the 3 point line.

People's fascination with the Cavs is baffling. They're the only team I see around here getting criticized from different people for not drafting multiple different players from the same draft.

Or better yet, people completely gloss over the draft busts they campaigned for only to move on to different player of choice three years later. All just to criticize the team.

Is it because we keep getting the #1 pick? :confusedshrug:

[PleezeBelieve]

Kyrie: 21 years old
Dion: 21 years old
Tristan: 22 years old
Zeller: 23 years old

#1 pick, #19 pick: less than 21 years old


Cavs bout to have a dynasty, suckas. :oldlol:

[Fiasco]

This draft really is terrible.

[brandonislegend]

This time last year, the Cavs were "very likely" to take Harrison Barnes. He and Kyrie are great friends, it was reported. He had awesome workouts, they said.

In actuality, Waiters and MKG were going to be the guys all along. Waiters never even worked out for the Cavs (or anyone else).

Smoke. Screen.

They should have took Barnes.

[RedBlackAttack]

They should have took Barnes.
You're missing the point.

Also, *taken.

[brandonislegend]

and to those that think Waiters will be better than McLemore, get real.

[RedBlackAttack]

im not sure 'historically' is relevent though. the current fron office has only been in place for 3 years.
Agreed. I feel the current FO has made some very heady moves, both in acquiring picks and in the selection process.

No one will recognize it until this team starts winning games, though.

[RedBlackAttack]

and to those that think Waiters will be better than McLemore, get real.
No offense, but people said the same thing about Thomas Robinson compared to Tristan Thompson going into last year's draft. From what we know now, no GM in their right mind would choose TRob over Tristan now.

And people always love the new shiny toy.

[PleezeBelieve]

The Warriors can have Barnes. He's a role player now and for the rest of his career. With his team scoring 100+ ppg, did he even average 1 apg this year?

[HeatFanSince88]

Cleveland, absolutely irrelevant ever since LeBron.

[brandonislegend]

No offense, but people said the same thing about Thomas Robinson compared to Tristan Thompson going into last year's draft. From what we know now, no GM in their right mind would choose TRob over Tristan now.

And people always love the new shiny toy.

You are comparing Thomas Robinson in college to Ben McLemore in college? Really?

[PleezeBelieve]

and to those that think Waiters will be better than McLemore, get real.
You fukkin idiot. :roll:

Waiters will be at least 18/4/3/1.5 this year on 44/34/78

Mclemore is the next Jason Richardson

[brandonislegend]

You fukkin idiot. :roll:

Waiters will be at least 18/4/3/1.5 this year on 44/34/78

Mclemore is the next Jason Richardson

ok.

[PleezeBelieve]

Golden State averaged 101 ppg

Harrison Barnes averaged 1.2 apg

Yep, I called it. That guy is a must have, I say

[RedBlackAttack]

You are comparing Thomas Robinson in college to Ben McLemore in college? Really?
Yes. Really. He was considered the second best big man in what was called a very good, very deep draft. Do you forget the TRob hype?

McLemore had a chance to be the consensus top pick in this draft when Noel got injured. He completely flamed out down the stretch and in the tournament. Also, his advanced stats are very mediocre for a guy that high on draft boards.

His class is also misleading. Yes, he was a freshman last year, but he's older than many of the top picks in last year's draft (Davis, Beal, MKG).

He couldn't be more different from Waiters. Dion has a fantastic first step and finishes like a monster at the rim. He's also a good playmaker. McLemore is a solid shooter and a high leaper, but has a suspect handle and doesn't create well for others.

We'll see how it goes. I think McLemore will be a pretty good player in the league, but no way do I see him as a top pick in any draft, including this one.

[PleezeBelieve]

ok.
Dion averaged 15/3/3 on 41/31/74 as a 20-21 year old rookie sucka.

What, you think he getting worse? LMAO

McLemore will be a 12 ppg 2 apg 4 rpg guy on 42/36/83

Basically he'll be a transition and catch & shoot dude.

Congrates to him.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm pretty much in line with what Brocato thinks of McLemore.

I Wouldn’t Take Ben McLemore Number One If I Were You

Don’t get me wrong. I think McLemore is a solid wing prospect. He’s a fantastic athlete and his shooting stroke is great. But I’m just not sure he has the characteristics of a player that a team wants to spend its coveted first overall pick on. And I’m gonna tell you why.

This Draft Isn’t As Weak As the Pundits Would Have You Believe

The more time passes, the more I hear how “weak” this draft is. I hear people make this assertion every year, but this year the notion has become particularly popular. Chad Ford has been saying it for a while, and I think the more people say it, the more others buy in. Just the other day I heard Jay Williams claim that it’s the weakest draft in the last twenty years. Yet, somehow I can’t imagine that Williams would be picked second in this draft. Regardless, the “weak” draft claim is the reason why McLemore has a good chance of going number one. “Oh, he’s not as good as your typical number one pick, but it’s a weak draft.” I simply can’t get behind this.

According to my projections, this may be the best draft since 2009. It’s still early, and some lottery projected players could still certainly take their names out and decide to stay in school, but consider this: my model projects six players this year as being +1 or better in the NBA. Compare this to the three players from last year’s draft, just two from the previous year, and four from 2010. You have to go back to 2009 (7) to find a draft that had more guys projected at +1 or better than this year.

And it’s even more impressive that I’m projecting four guys at +2 or better. This has only happened in three drafts since 2002. Sure, maybe this changes by the end of June, and maybe this isn’t one of the strongest drafts in history, but the point is this: there just isn’t any evidence that this draft is as “weak” as people are claiming. As a result, picking McLemore – who is a solid shooter and may develop into a good offensive player – first overall just because it’s a “weak” draft is not just silly, it’s flat out uninformed.

McLemore’s Size-Skillset Combination Poses Legitimate Issues

McLemore, who is 6-5 on platform shoes, can really only play one position in the league – shooting guard. He is simply not big enough to guard opposing small forwards today’s league. And he can’t play point guard because he is below average at ballhandling and penetrating and his court vision is poor. In general, one-position-only guys are only particularly valuable if they’re point guards who run offenses and centers who anchor defenses. Think about it, how many great NBA players can you think of that could only play shooting guard and weren’t great with the ball? Jordan and Kobe were both ball dominant players with an ability to create good shots in practically any given possession. Jordan proved he could play point guard in 1989, and both he and Kobe could swing to the three position if their team needed them to. Wade could play point – and did early in his career. But Wade isn’t a good comparison either anyway – unlike McLemore, Wade’s strengths have always been slashing and either finishing or finding the open man. Same goes for James Harden – a ball dominant guard whose value primarily lies in his ability to get to the basket. McLemore has not demonstrated this kind of ability. To compare, Harden and Wade at McLemore’s age both averaged well over twice as many assists per pace-adjusted 36 as McLemore while maintaining a significantly higher usage rate.

So who does that leave? The only comparison that’s even partly legitimate is the guy I guess everyone is comparing Ben to: Ray Allen. But is McLemore Ray Allen? I’m not so sure. For one, Allen was a much more prolific scorer than McLemore, even at the same age. Allen’s ability to create good shots for himself seems to have been much more advanced than McLemore’s. But even if McLemore does become Ray Allen (and I don’t think he will), is Ray Allen the guy you want with a #1 pick? Yeah, he led some good Milwaukee and Seattle teams, but he is a player better suited to be a second or third option.

McLemore’s position limitations are even more problematic when we look at some of the bottom teams – who are most likely to wind up with the top pick. New Orleans just gave up the best point guard of the last decade for Eric Gordon and used its lottery pick last year on a 19-year-old shooting guard. Neither of these guys can play the 3. Sacramento has 15 shooting guards. Washington and Cleveland used their #3 and #4 overall picks, respectively, last year on small shooting guards. So that leaves Orlando and Charlotte. Both these teams could use a shooting guard, but would both be smarter to take a different position. Orlando starts Arron Afflalo (also small) at the 2, and while he’s certainly not great, he might be their strongest starter at this point. Charlotte would be better off going after a big or a true point guard – two areas where the team lacks big time. A guy who can only play shooting guard just doesn’t meet any of these teams’ needs. And yeah, team needs go out the window if we’re talking about a big time player, but remember, “he’s not as good as your typical number one pick, but it’s a weak draft.”

He Isn’t As Young As You Think

Ok, you might think I’m just being nitpicky, but this kind of stuff matters. I’ve said before age is one of the most (if not THE most) important factor in predicting a college player’s future success. Hell, I even revised my model to make sure my values for age were exact to the day. So when you hear that McLemore is the highest scoring “freshman” in college basketball, take it with a grain of salt. McLemore is older than, among others, Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, and Bradley Beal (the top three picks of last year’s draft).

He Doesn’t Steal the Basketball

Now this just seems silly. But I’m not so sure it is. Whether the number in the steals column measures hustle, athleticism, a general feel for the game, a combination of the three, or something else, it is highly indicative of future success for wings. And when we look at the results, it’s pretty telling. McLemore averages 1.4 steals per pace-adjusted 40 minutes. When we look at all the players who were drafted between 2002 and now who averaged 1.5 or fewer steals, very few have been successful in the NBA by any player measure, and none have been all-stars (or, if you don’t like the all-star measure, none have been better than above average players). That’s not to say that a player can’t be good if he doesn’t rack up the steals in college, I’m just saying that history isn’t on Ben’s side here.

(cont)

[RedBlackAttack]

Who I'd take instead: (this was written March 8, so that explains the inclusion of Smart)

It wouldn’t be fair to McLemore or the reader if I didn’t at least offer some alternatives. In my mind, there are three reasonable choices a team could use its number one pick on: Nerlens Noel, Marcus Smart, and Otto Porter. Each of these three guys plays a different position, and each of them boasts a very unique skillset. Oh yeah, and they all project as +2 or better in my model (if you recall what I’ve said before, +2 is basically the threshold where a player is all but guaranteed to be successful in the NBA if he crosses it).

Nerlens Noel

Yes, Mr. Noel had a knee injury. But I’m still confident he will have a solid NBA career and I think he’ll be able to help a team’s interior defense immediately once he recovers. Noel leads the entire NCAA in blocks per game (as a freshman!) and he’s second in the SEC in steals per game (as a center!!). He’s a solid rebounder as well. The one nitpick, besides his ACL injury I guess, is his offensive game, which is miles behind his defense. He is sloppy with the basketball and very unpolished in the post. His jumper is basically nonexistant: he shot 37% on his jump shots in college. But despite offensive struggles, his defensive prowess – and particularly his ability to protect the rim – is very intriguing. At the risk of sounding cliche, offensive skills can be taught. Defensive instincts can’t. Having an elite interior defensive presence can change a team’s fortunes quickly. And when we consider what Noel is – a giant teenage super-athlete – I think we should be willing to look past his hiccup of a knee injury, assuming of course his recovery continues to go as planned.

Marcus Smart

Smart has been on top of or very close to the top of my draft rankings since I first put them out last month. The reasons are simple: he’s 18, he’s built like a brick shithouse, and he’s really good at basketball, specifically with respect to the aspects of the game that reflect hustle and athleticism. Of the point guards in the draft discussion this year, Smart is the best at rebounding (and is particularly good on the offensive glass), the best at stealing the ball, and the best at shot-blocking. My favorite way-too-early comparisons are Westbrook and Wade – where Smart loses ground in athleticism he makes up for it in strength. Smart is very good at getting to the rim and he’s especially good at posting up – with his size there are few if any point guards who can guard him in the post. Smart’s primary weakness appears to be his jump shooting. But again, he’s 18 and there’s lots of time to work on this – he’s not that bad at shooting. Smart could also become a better passer, which I think will happen. His instincts and court vision are there, he just needs to polish his decision-making. Perhaps the most intriguing thing about Smart is his reputation for being a leader and willingness to fill that role. With everything he brings to the table, I’m taking Smart first if I need a point guard for the future. If I need interior defense I’m taking Noel. And if I need a solid all-around wing, I’m taking…

Otto Porter

Porter was able to fly under my radar for a few weeks until I fixed an error I had in my data. Then he immediately shot up to the #4 prospect in my top 100. Then he started playing out of his mind, including a game where he scored 58% of his team’s points in a win over Syracuse. Now he’s my #1 prospect. He has a fantastic size-skill combination, which will cause nightmare matchups for teams with small small forwards or slow power forwards. He’s an underrated shooter – he shoots 45% from three (!) and he’s basically a scoring threat from anywhere on the court. But his skills don’t end with his shooting: he is a very good rebounder, he is quite adept at forcing turnovers (2.4 pace-adjusted stl/40) and blocking shots, and he’s exceptionally good at taking care of the ball. I think an old exercise that I used to use quite frequently would be particularly enlightening here. The following table compares Porter’s numbers with McLemore’s:
Player Age Height points TS% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% impact
Porter 20.1 6’8″ 20.2 0.610 7.1 18.9 13.4 18.0 3.6 3.3 10.3 24.5 12.4
McLemore 20.4 6’5″ 20.2 0.636 5.6 12.5 9.4 13.5 2.2 2.5 13.0 23.6 9.3



Compared to McLemore, Porter is younger, bigger, and better at just about everything. McLemore is a bit more efficient from the field, but his usage is a bit lower. And just about all of Porter’s other numbers are substantially stronger. In other words, the two are comparable scorers, but Porter is better at every other facet of the game. Plus he’s younger and his size allows him to be much more versatile both as an offensive threat and as a defender who can check multiple positions. In fact, Porter’s production and versatility make him the best wing prospect in this draft – my draft model rates him as the best player. So if I were a team in need of a wing, I’d take Porter first overall.

Again, I don’t mean to get too down on McLemore. I think he’s a very good prospect. I also think he could be a very good NBA player. I just wouldn’t use a number one overall pick on him. I’d go for Noel, Smart, or Porter instead.

-James

http://shutupandjam.net/2013/03/08/i-wouldnt-take-ben-mclemore-number-one-if-i-were-you/

[waseem780]

You fukkin idiot. :roll:

Waiters will be at least 18/4/3/1.5 this year on 44/34/78

Mclemore is the next Jason Richardson
ok.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm starting to think maybe Porter is the pick, simply based on how little connection there has been publicly between he and the Cavs.

Consider this, though...

A. He plays absolutely a position of need. It is arguably the biggest position of need in fact, besides (ironically) a rim protecting big man.

B. He projects to be an elite defensive wing, which I'm sure Mike Brown would love to utilize, and the Cavs also need a young great spot-up shooter for drive-and-kicks from Dion/Kyrie. Porter is an excellent outside shooter.

C. His advanced metrics are through the roof pretty much across the board. Every advanced rating system I've seen has Noel at No. 1, a small gap, then Porter at No. 2... And then a huge gulf between Porter and the next guy (which seems to vary depending on who you are reading). And, we know the Cavs put a lot of stock in advanced stats, which largely explains the Waiters/Thompson surprise picks. Both guys generally graded very well in advanced stats, much higher than their projected draft position. The Cavs have their own team of mathematicians that do these advanced stats, so it is not like they're putting a ton of stock into Brocato's system or anyone else on the Internet. But, it's hard to imagine their homegrown numbers would vary so much from the rest of the guys, especially since they've seemed to have aligned in the past.

D. He seems to fit that high-character model Grant has been trying to put together since he took over.

E. We've heard little to nothing about him going to the Cavs... If history is an example, that means he's probably a serious target.

[Twiens]

Marcus Smart really should've stayed in the draft. I think he would have went #1 despite Waiters being there.

[chips93]

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack][B]He Doesn

[PleezeBelieve]

Marcus Smart really should've stayed in the draft. I think he would have went #1 despite Waiters being there.
Just stop

[RedBlackAttack]

Marcus Smart really should've stayed in the draft. I think he would have went #1 despite Waiters being there.
No way. Isn't Smart a point guard? He absolutely would have gone 2nd, though. He is exactly what the Magic need.

[chips93]

C. His advanced metrics are through the roof pretty much across the board. Every advanced rating system I've seen has Noel at No. 1, a small gap, then Porter at No. 2... And then a huge gulf between Porter and the next guy (which seems to vary depending on who you are reading). And, we know the Cavs put a lot of stock in advanced stats, which largely explains the Waiters/Thompson surprise picks. Both guys generally graded very well in advanced stats, much higher than their projected draft position. The Cavs have their own team of mathematicians that do these advanced stats, so it is not like they're putting a ton of stock into Brocato's system or anyone else on the Internet. But, it's hard to imagine their homegrown numbers would vary so much from the rest of the guys, especially since they've seemed to have aligned in the past

i could definitely be wrong, but i dont think the advanced metrics that grant and co are supposed to be high on, are these algorithm type metrics, where a bunch of stats are put together, and it boils down to one number.

i think its more synergy type stats. i remember hearing how the cavs were impressed with waiters production out of the pick and roll, and how that could translate to the next level.

i think it comes down to looking at players, and finding small parts of their games, and what translates. like you look at shabazz muhammad. he got tons of his points in transition and on the offensive glass, because he was bigger and stronger than most pac12 players. that wont be the case in the nba, so it probably wont translate.

i think that is what front offices look into, when they talk about advanced stats.

[RedBlackAttack]

i could definitely be wrong, but i dont think the advanced metrics that grant and co are supposed to be high on, are these algorithm type metrics, where a bunch of stats are put together, and it boils down to one number.

i think its more synergy type stats. i remember hearing how the cavs were impressed with waiters production out of the pick and roll, and how that could translate to the next level.

i think it comes down to looking at players, and finding small parts of their games, and what translates. like you look at shabazz muhammad. he got tons of his points in transition and on the offensive glass, because he was bigger and stronger than most pac12 players. that wont be the case in the nba, so it probably wont translate.

i think that is what front offices look into, when they talk about advanced stats.

You're definitely right about boiling things down to specific offensive/defense sets and how a player may excel in that particular system, but I've always thought that was just one of the aspects taken into account.

I've heard the Cavs have a literal team of advanced stats/synergy stats guys who all focus on different aspects of it. I would assume there would be some broad analysis to go along with the very specific stuff.

I'd really love to see them in action, because we really just see the basic stuff with guys like Brocato, Hollinger and Kevin Pelton.

However, when you have Brocato, Pelton and others with Noel and Porter way ahead of the field, it seems unlikely that the Cavs' team is going to vary all that much, at least when it comes to the broad stuff.

[RedBlackAttack]

interesting article on the whole. i dont like his idea on steals though. they are, more than almost any other stat, a product of what system a player plays in.

some coaches give their players free reign to go after steals, like louisville, while other coaches will be far more conservative, and prohibit their players gambling.

this is just in general though. i didnt watch much of kansas this year, so i cant really comment on their defensive philosophy.
I actually sort of agree that, on the collegiate level, superior athletes will naturally force a lot of steals just because they are so much naturally quicker/faster/longer than the guy they're matched up against.

I think it's an interesting little tidbit, although certainly not a reason to avoid a guy completely. Just one of a myriad of issues Brocato (and I) have with McLemore on the next level.


As for Kansas' system, I guess the last high-potential guard they had in the draft was Mario Chalmers. It was the same system McLemore played in (Bill Self) and Chalmers shined in that aspect of the game.

Chalmers averaged 2.7 steals per game in 26 minutes a game in his freshman year (2006) and he was actually younger than McLemore.

McLemore averaged 1.0 steals per game this past season in 32.2 minutes per game.

Yeah, I think the point has some merit.

[tontoz]

The Cavs have been tight lipped about who they actually wanted the last two drafts. I wouldn't give this any credibility at all.

[RedBlackAttack]

The Cavs have been tight lipped about who they actually wanted the last two drafts. I wouldn't give this any credibility at all.
Exactly.

In fact, like I said above, the idea that this Len rumor is coming out with a couple weeks left before the draft, it makes me think that he absolutely won't be the pick. This just isn't how they operate and every time a "leak" like this has happened under Grant at this stage of the process, it has been completely wrong.

[Meticode]

I'm not going to read any pre-draft rumors. Personally I hope it's either Noel or Porter. Last draft worked out pretty good, I didn't even follow Waiters so I was surprised by the pick. Also I was surprised by the Thompson pick and he turned out to 10/10 on his sophomore season.

Cavaliers have had a great two drafts.

[DukeDelonte13]

the waiters and thompson hate is very indicative of the actual nba knowledge of some of these posters.

Chris Grant drafts two universally penned reaches in two consecutive years who are both at the very least legit talented NBA starters and people want to act like the Cavs have no idea what they are doing come draft time.

[IGOTGAME]

the waiters and thompson hate is very indicative of the actual nba knowledge of some of these posters.

Chris Grant drafts two universally penned reaches in two consecutive years who are both at the very least legit talented NBA starters and people want to act like the Cavs have no idea what they are doing come draft time.

Everyone is saying the Cavs left better players on the board that could have reasonably been picked. I don't agree with the fact that Thompson is a legit talented power forward. I think he is a player who will look worst the better the team gets and will eventually be a fringe starter. I also don't see Waiters becoming a sought after player based on his playing style.

Bottom line is people think they could have done better. It's not just them...the raptors have also way worst moves. That Terrance Ross pick was a friable offense in my book.

[RedBlackAttack]

Everyone is saying the Cavs left better players on the board that could have reasonably been picked. I don't agree with the fact that Thompson is a legit talented power forward. I think he is a player who will look worst the better the team gets and will eventually be a fringe starter. I also don't see Waiters becoming a sought after player based on his playing style.

Bottom line is people think they could have done better. It's not just them...the raptors have also way worst moves. That Terrance Ross pick was a friable offense in my book.
I actually think it has more to do with people just having not watched the team play and still holding onto the "reach" cards that were played the night of the draft.

Like I said, no one is going to give the Cavs credit for making heady picks until the team starts winning.

Still, as someone who has watched every Cavs game (some multiple times) for the past two seasons, I'm very happy with where both Waiters and Thompson are right now in their growth as players.

You can always go back and look at drafts and say, "Hey look... that guy turned out great. He should have gone higher."

You can do that with EVERY draft and teams like Sacramento who have drafted the likes of Thomas Robinson and Jimmer Fredette in the Top 10 deserve ridicule.

I'm sorry, but anyone who has seen the progression of both our No. 4 picks should not be putting us in that boat. I don't really care where you "project" Thompson to be years down the road, because I sort of doubt you've watched him a ton anyway.

But, a guy in his second season who averaged 12/10 with good defense at 21 just doesn't seem like the kind of player people should be panning as a bad pick at No. 4, at least at this stage. Also, he averaged something like 14/11 in the 50+ games he started without Varejao. And, he also played in all 82 games, which has to count for something.

Waiters took time to get accustomed to finishing among the trees in his first few months but, again, he made massive steps toward the end of the season and, right now, he's lived up to his draft status.


No one has a crystal ball and can see exactly what these players will become, but the point is both guys have played up to their selection so far. That's all I can ask at this stage.

[kNicKz]

People are underrating this draft.

Every year is a "weak draft" :roll:

[Kurosawa0]

No way. Isn't Smart a point guard? He absolutely would have gone 2nd, though. He is exactly what the Magic need.

Or Marcus Smart might have generated more interest in a trade for the #1.

[RedBlackAttack]

Or Marcus Smart might have generated more interest in a trade for the #1.
Good point.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Cavs scouts are definitely hipsters. If you want a center - why not the consensus number 1 center. I myself think it would be a waste...if you want Alex Len trade up and get him. Don't waste the #1 pick on him.

[Kurosawa0]

Good point.

Orlando probably at least tries to move up and ensure getting him.

[LBJMVP]

why is everyone talking about the cavs screwing up another pick?

every pick we have made in the last 2 years have been all rookie, and two were all rookie first team?

we drafted the best point guard in 11, and the best shooting guard last year. (yes, waiters is better than beal.)

chad ford (i think) said in his 2011 redraft that irving and thompson would have gone one and two.

cleveland has had the best two drafts out of anyone the past two years.

[returnofthemack]

i really dont get all the hate for the cavs drafts. i understand the arguement that they should have taken drummond over waiters but alot of teams passed on drummond. waiters and thompson are both good players right now and they still have room for growth.

as for thompson vs valanciunas. i just dont get it. lets look at the numbers shall we?

jonas
(2012) 9/6 and 1 block in 24 minutes a game and is 21 years old

tristan
(2011) 8/6 and 1 block in 24 minutes a game at 21 years old
(2012) 12/9 and 1 block in 31 minutes a game at 22 years old

i just dont see how you can look at the numbers and say "yeah one guy is just so much better then the other".

compared to some of the crap that teams have drafted in the last 2 years i would say the cavs have done pretty well. kyrie, waiters and thompson are not busts. at the time were the picks considered reaches? yes but i would rather have those guys then derrick williams or thomas robinson any day.

as for taking len with the first pick i dont really think it will happen unless they trade down but who knows. i would like to see noel or porter with the first pick. the cavs front office has done a pretty good job the last few years and i would like to think that they know what they are doing. even though some of the picks have been head scratchers at the time none of them have busted

[Shade8780]

Cavs scouts know their shlt. I now know that Alex Len is gonna be an All-Star.

[DukeDelonte13]

len is not going #1. No way, no how. He has just as many question marks as Noel without Noel's potentially elite upside. Too many cavs fans are in love with Len and I really don't understand why. I see Len at best becoming an average starting center if he doesn't continue to have ankle problems.

[BoutPractice]

I used to think he was underrated for not being even "considered" as the No. 1. Now that he is, I think that actually going through with it would be a huge gamble.

[RedBlackAttack]

len is not going #1. No way, no how. He has just as many question marks as Noel without Noel's potentially elite upside. Too many cavs fans are in love with Len and I really don't understand why. I see Len at best becoming an average starting center if he doesn't continue to have ankle problems.
I can tell you why...

The average fan just listens to what they're told and the Cleveland media has been against Noel pretty much across the board.

Throw in that Len is 255 pounds with a more advanced offensive game than Noel and that is enough to sell the average fan.

It's no secret that most casual fans tend to overlook defensive capabilities and overrate offensive capabilities. Noel is a potential once in every decade type defensive player, but who cares about defense if the guy can't make a jumpshot, the casual fan will say.

Fortunately, the Cavs' front office is not comprised of casual fans. I don't see any way Len is the pick.

[GOBB]

I can tell you why...

The average fan just listens to what they're told and the Cleveland media has been against Noel pretty much across the board.

Throw in that Len is 255 pounds with a more advanced offensive game than Noel and that is enough to sell the average fan.

It's no secret that most casual fans tend to overlook defensive capabilities and overrate offensive capabilities. Noel is a potential once in every decade type defensive player, but who cares about defense if the guy can't make a jumpshot, the casual fan will say.

Fortunately, the Cavs' front office is not comprised of casual fans. I don't see any way Len is the pick.

Greg Oden?

[RedBlackAttack]

Greg Oden?
Noel is the better defensive talent, no question. Oden had an offensive game that was further along, but Noel's defensive prowess is just absurd.

At 18 years old, he led the nation with 4.5 blocks per game and was second in the SEC in steals (2.1 per game) as a freaking center.

Oden was more of a complete player coming out of college and he was a much larger man (which helped lead to his downfall), but not close from an individual defensive perspective. I think Oden averaged like 3 blocks per and under a steal a game.

Noel is a complete freak of nature on the defensive end. Incredible wingspan, can jump out of the gym and pitch-perfect timing.

If there was any player in this draft even close to as good on the offensive end as Noel is on the defensive end, people would be saying he's the no-brainer No. 1 pick.

[ReturnofJPR]

Kyrie: 21 years old
Dion: 21 years old
Tristan: 22 years old
Zeller: 23 years old

#1 pick, #19 pick: less than 21 years old


Cavs bout to have a dynasty, suckas. :oldlol:

Dumbass, I have been warning you Cavalier fans for months now that once free agency hits, The league will pick apart your young talent.

[veilside23]

larry sanders 2.0 for noel right now ?

will he get better offensively yes maybe... dwight howard has been on the league for how long ... howard i believe was also a great shot blocker.. and is better defensively... can noel reach howard's 80% maybe..

Big men right now when you draft you either have a good one or a bust...

lets see when was the last time that a big that got drafted that has been an all star... and a consistent one... maybe blake griffin just simply because of popularity.

if noel turns out to be an animal good for the cavs.. but i guess thats how draft works pick a player fall in love with him and hate him later ...

[PleezeBelieve]

Dumbass, I have been warning you Cavalier fans for months now that once free agency hits, The league will pick apart your young talent.
That's the great thing about this collection of talent, there is no one player that can undercut the development of the overall team.

You want Kyrie? You can have him. We still would have Dion/Trsitan/ Noel.

I know this is all hypothetical but the point still stands. Cavs will have flexibility for years to come with this roster.

[RedBlackAttack]

larry sanders 2.0 for noel right now ?

will he get better offensively yes maybe... dwight howard has been on the league for how long ... howard i believe was also a great shot blocker.. and is better defensively... can noel reach howard's 80% maybe..

Big men right now when you draft you either have a good one or a bust...

lets see when was the last time that a big that got drafted that has been an all star... and a consistent one... maybe blake griffin just simply because of popularity.

if noel turns out to be an animal good for the cavs.. but i guess thats how draft works pick a player fall in love with him and hate him later ...

As good a shot-blocker as Larry Sanders is/was, Noel is way further along at the same stage. Like I said, Noel averaged 4.5 blocks a game as an 18-year-old.

Sanders didn't even get to VCU until he was 19 and he averaged a very respectable 2.9 blocks a game as a freshman.

That's not even mentioning Noel's quick hands and ability to steal the ball, which Sanders never had.

Noel is just everything you want in a rim protecting big man, which if you've watched these playoffs, can completely change the game. In fact, the Bucks made the playoffs in large part to Sanders' growth as a player and his ability to shrink the court on the defensive end.

[PleezeBelieve]

larry sanders 2.0 for noel right now ?

will he get better offensively yes maybe... dwight howard has been on the league for how long ... howard i believe was also a great shot blocker.. and is better defensively... can noel reach howard's 80% maybe..

Big men right now when you draft you either have a good one or a bust...

lets see when was the last time that a big that got drafted that has been an all star... and a consistent one... maybe blake griffin just simply because of popularity.

if noel turns out to be an animal good for the cavs.. but i guess thats how draft works pick a player fall in love with him and hate him later ...
Noel is not Larry Sanders 2.0. He's a better offensive and defensive player. He will impact the game far beyond the amount of blocks he gets every game.

[RedBlackAttack]

That's the great thing about this collection of talent, there is no one player that can undercut the development of the overall team.

You want Kyrie? You can have him. We still would have Dion/Trsitan/ Noel.

I know this is all hypothetical but the point still stands. Cavs will have flexibility for years to come with this roster.
Kyrie isn't going anywhere for another 6-7 years. What's the last elite young guy who didn't re-sign when his rookie contract was up? It's silly. He'll be in Cleveland for the foreseeable future.

[PleezeBelieve]

Kyrie isn't going anywhere for another 6-7 years. What's the last elite young guy who didn't re-sign when his rookie contract was up? It's silly. He'll be in Cleveland for the foreseeable future.
I'm not that big on Kyrie. He's a good talent but I like Dion as much or more. He doesn't have Kyrie's fanfare but I like the way Dion controls the game when he has the ball. Even more than Kyrie who I think looks for his own offense at the expense of the other four players on the court.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm not that big on Kyrie. He's a good talent but I like Dion as much or more. He doesn't have Kyrie's fanfare but I like the way Dion controls the game when he has the ball. Even more than Kyrie who I think looks for his own offense at the expense of the other four players on the court.
Erm, wouldn't the idea be to have both players? Not sure why we need to pick favorites.

[DukeDelonte13]

I'm not that big on Kyrie. He's a good talent but I like Dion as much or more. He doesn't have Kyrie's fanfare but I like the way Dion controls the game when he has the ball. Even more than Kyrie who I think looks for his own offense at the expense of the other four players on the court.



kyrie is the better talent but Dion is just a straight up G. He's def. my favorite player on the roster. I love his assertiveness and attitude. He has an absolute insane work ethic and drive to be the best. He has all the tools and the intangibles to become a top NBA SG.

It's going to be really interesting watching Kyrie and Dion's respective games and personalities grow together.

[chips93]

#TeamDion

[chips93]

Dumbass, I have been warning you Cavalier fans for months now that once free agency hits, The league will pick apart your young talent.

none of our young players will reach unrestricted free agency for like 4 years

[veilside23]

As good a shot-blocker as Larry Sanders is/was, Noel is way further along at the same stage. Like I said, Noel averaged 4.5 blocks a game as an 18-year-old.

Sanders didn't even get to VCU until he was 19 and he averaged a very respectable 2.9 blocks a game as a freshman.

That's not even mentioning Noel's quick hands and ability to steal the ball, which Sanders never had.

Noel is just everything you want in a rim protecting big man, which if you've watched these playoffs, can completely change the game. In fact, the Bucks made the playoffs in large part to Sanders' growth as a player and his ability to shrink the court on the defensive end.


While noel has shown he can definitely alter shots at the college level lets see sanders on nba 2.8 bpg .. thats against elite players not midgets in college there is a big difference there... he may have average a bit less in college than noel but honestly college stats is a joke when it comes to nba.. very few players was able to adapt their game to college = same nba .

again i dont hate noel i just dont see him being other than a rim protector that if he gets injured there goes your #1 pick ... and please tell me will he have a better offesive game than horford ?

tell me what is his ceiling offensively ... defense its sky rocket ... is that what you want from a number 1 pick ... a player who is a shot blocker in college? he may be good but would it be ok for you to have a player to average 10 10 3 per game ? may not even be consistent ?

[ReturnofJPR]

That's the great thing about this collection of talent, there is no one player that can undercut the development of the overall team.

You want Kyrie? You can have him. We still would have Dion/Trsitan/ Noel.

I know this is all hypothetical but the point still stands. Cavs will have flexibility for years to come with this roster.

I love how you are counting your eggs before they hatch

Bust city!

Cleveland will never be anything if they lose Kyrie too

Get ready for the bottom feeding teams of the NBA to offer any player that pans out Ben Gordon-like contracts

[veilside23]

Noel is not Larry Sanders 2.0. He's a better offensive and defensive player. He will impact the game far beyond the amount of blocks he gets every game.
again in college... can he do it in nba.. yes sure ... will he score better than sanders maybe

[fatboy11]

The #1 pick should be Nerlens Noel or Otto Porter.

I want no part of Alex Len at #1 because his injury is more scary than Noel's and he's proven to be an inconsistent, unaggressive player at times. And he's about a year older than Noel.

There's reason to be concerned with Noel between the ACL tear, the weight (which might have been embellished during his stay at UK), and the characters surrounding him, but give me him over Len. What scares me about Len scares me more than that scares me about Noel.

Otto Porter fills an obvious hole, tests well in advanced metrics, is a mature player for his age, and has a ton of potential and versatility to his game. He's a very safe pick at #1. Maybe he doesn't end up an annual All-Star, but he at least ends up in the Nicolas Batum/Caron Butler class, IMO.

[ReturnofJPR]

The #1 pick should be Nerlens Noel or Otto Porter.

I want no part of Alex Lin at #1 because his injury is more scary than Noel's and he's proven to be an inconsistent, unaggressive player at times. And he's about a year older than Noel.

There's reason to be concerned with Noel between the ACL tear, the weight (which might have been embellished during his stay at UK), and the characters surrounding him, but give me him over Lin. What scares me about Lin scares me more than that scares me about Noel.

Otto Porter fills an obvious hole, tests well in advanced metrics, is a mature player for his age, and has a ton of potential and versatility to his game. He's a very safe pick at #1. Maybe he doesn't end up an annual All-Star, but he at least ends up in the Nicolas Batum/Caron Butler class, IMO.

Jeremy Lin's brother, Alex, doesn't enter the Draft till 2014.

[chips93]

again i dont hate noel i just dont see him being other than a rim protector that if he gets injured there goes your #1 pick ... and please tell me will he have a better offesive game than horford ?

if noel had horfords offensive game, passing, post scoring, wet jumper, he would be a perenial all-star

there is a lot of shitting on noel, but its hard to make a great case for anybody else going number 1. who do you think the cavs should take?

[DukeDelonte13]

While noel has shown he can definitely alter shots at the college level lets see sanders on nba 2.8 bpg .. thats against elite players not midgets in college there is a big difference there... he may have average a bit less in college than noel but honestly college stats is a joke when it comes to nba.. very few players was able to adapt their game to college = same nba .

again i dont hate noel i just dont see him being other than a rim protector that if he gets injured there goes your #1 pick ... and please tell me will he have a better offesive game than horford ?

tell me what is his ceiling offensively ... defense its sky rocket ... is that what you want from a number 1 pick ... a player who is a shot blocker in college? he may be good but would it be ok for you to have a player to average 10 10 3 per game ? may not even be consistent ?

Tristan Thompson came to the cavs even more raw than noel and thanks to his coachability + work ethic + coaching ala Mosely and big Z (Mosely is the only Scott assistant coach retained by Mike Brown) Thompson improved his FT % from sub 50% in college to near 60% as a soph. Thompson is now hitting jump hooks with consistency, has much improved footwork, and is actually becoming an offensive option for the team.

Like Thompson, Noel by all accounts is a hard worker and a good kid. (also shown by his complete dedication to his rehab) He has those same great intangibles as TT. He also even had a very similar upbringing as TT.

Unlike TT, i think Noel is coming into a much better situation with a defensive minded head coach, an established leader, no sh*theads in the lockeroom, and an overall better team.


There have been reports that he has been doing a lot of shooting work while hes rehabbing.

I think the cavs are the perfect situation for Noel to reach his ultimate potential.

[Jackass18]

As a Terps fan I can say he has the potential, but he's a big risk at #1. He should have stayed at Maryland for another year, but I don't blame him for going after the money.

[chips93]

character is probably the hardest thing to get a good idea of, when looking at prospects, and ive heard some people rave about noel, and others really shit on him. saying he was very disprespectful to agents that wanted to represent him, blowing off multiple appointments.

[brandonislegend]

That's the great thing about this collection of talent, there is no one player that can undercut the development of the overall team.

You want Kyrie? You can have him. We still would have Dion/Trsitan/ Noel.

I know this is all hypothetical but the point still stands. Cavs will have flexibility for years to come with this roster.

:oldlol: