LeBron James - top 5 player in NBA history, Kobe/Hakeem outside top 10

[2010splash]

Without question LeBron now moves into the top 4-5 all time by winning his 4th MVP and 2nd straight Finals MVP. In terms of pure dominance, he's the second greatest player ever, but people seem to place heavy emphasis on team-based accomplishments, so even though they were worse players, maybe you'd rank guys like Kareem and Russell over LeBron. LeBron is also probably the second most clutch player ever as proven by his stats in elimination games and in Game 7s (just destroys so called clutch legends like Bird and Kobe). At this point I can say with a straight face that Jordan is the only player clearly ahead of LeBron.

LeBron now has literally the same r

[fiddy]

Stop riding his dick, ok?

[rhythmic]

[QUOTE=2010splash]Without question LeBron now moves into the top 4-5 all time by winning his 4th MVP and 2nd straight Finals MVP. In terms of pure dominance, he's the second greatest player ever, but people seem to place heavy emphasis on team-based accomplishments, so even though they were worse players, maybe you'd rank guys like Kareem and Russell over LeBron. LeBron is also probably the second most clutch player ever as proven by his stats in elimination games and in Game 7s (just destroys so called clutch legends like Bird and Kobe). At this point I can say with a straight face that Jordan is the only player clearly ahead of LeBron.

LeBron now has literally the same r

[n00bie]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[2010splash]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Mr Exlax]

How exactly does Hakeem get bumped out of the Top 10? Is this skill level or career accomplishments?

[ripthekik]

lmao.
Lebron stan, before you go any further, please convince us how lebron can bump hakeem out of the top 10 spot first. I'll wait :rolleyes:

[2010splash]

How exactly does Hakeem get bumped out of the Top 10? Is this skill level or career accomplishments?
It's simple math. Either him or Kobe. I listed the top 9 in the first post, so either Kobe or Hakeem have to be kicked out for there to be only 10 players who fit into a list of top 10 players ever.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Not better than Kobe and I'm not even a Kobe fan.

[sportjames23]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3f09bSUpT1qfw2dno1_500.gif


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[2010splash]

lmao.
Lebron stan, before you go any further, please convince us how lebron can bump hakeem out of the top 10 spot first. I'll wait :rolleyes:
Are you crazy? LeBron is top 4-5 all time. Hakeem has 3 fewer MVP's and the same team success. He's not even close. He's basically with Kobe at the 10-11 spot.

[ripthekik]

Are you crazy? LeBron is top 4-5 all time. Hakeem has 3 fewer MVP's and the same team success. He's not even close. He's basically with Kobe at the 10-11 spot.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

hakeem took a mediocre team to the finals while lebron needed an all star team and ray allen to bail his ass out. All of a sudden he's top 4? :oldlol:
if ray allen had missed that 3, lebron would be barely top 20 right now. You should print ray's picture a4 size and paste it in your bathroom to pray to everyday.

[Magic 32]

Big men - top 5

1.Russell
2.Kareem
3.Wilt
4.Duncan
5.Hakeem

Perimeters players - Top 5

1.MJ
2.Magic
3.Bird
4.Kobe
5.Lebron

[r15mohd]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

hakeem took a mediocre team to the finals while lebron needed an all star team and ray allen to bail his ass out. All of a sudden he's top 4? :oldlol:
if ray allen had missed that 3, lebron would be barely top 20 right now. You should print ray's picture a4 size and paste it in your bathroom to pray to everyday.

do you have the same thing of Fisher, Horry, and Gasol in your bathroom? :lol :lol :lol

[ConanRulesNBC]

I think at this point you have to start making a top 10 of each era. Because LeBron isn't as good as some players that only won a championship or two and there are players from and teams from the '90s that didn't win that would beat this Miami team ('93 Suns, '97 and '98 Jazz, '96 Sonics, '95 Magic).

[2010splash]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

hakeem took a mediocre team to the finals while lebron needed an all star team and ray allen to bail his ass out. All of a sudden he's top 4? :oldlol:
if ray allen had missed that 3, lebron would be barely top 20 right now. You should print ray's picture a4 size and paste it in your bathroom to pray to everyday.
Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh 12/7 for the playoffs. All-stars in name of course, but they hardly played like all-stars throughout the playoffs. Hakeem never had a dominant playoff run like 2012 LeBron (30+ PER) and he was a much worse regular season player (1 MVP to LeBron's 4 MVPs). Similar to Kobe, 1 MVP shows you weren't dominant enough to warrant top 5 mention.

Comparing Hakeem to LeBron at this point is simply retarded. Anyone who thinks LeBron is outside the top 5 at this point is just using wack logic.

[2010splash]

I think at this point you have to start making a top 10 of each era. Because LeBron isn't as good as some players that only won a championship or two and there are players from and teams from the '90s that didn't win that would beat this Miami team ('93 Suns, '97 and '98 Jazz, '96 Sonics, '95 Magic).
:roll: :roll:

LeBron is better than anyone to play this game with the exception of Jordan.

The 2013 Heat would slaughter those sh-t 90s teams like the Suns, Sonics, Jazz and Magic. Quit living in the past.

[ripthekik]

Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh 12/7 for the playoffs. All-stars in name of course, but they hardly played like all-stars throughout the playoffs. Hakeem never had a dominant playoff run like 2012 LeBron (30+ PER) and he was a much worse regular season player (1 MVP to LeBron's 4 MVPs).

Comparing Hakeem to LeBron at this point is simply retarded. Anyone who thinks LeBron is outside the top 5 at this point is just using wack logic.
All stars are all stars. The 2013 Miami Heat had 3 of the East's starting all stars. Think about that. Look at wade's stats in the last couple of games. It's something only top SG's can produce.

Hakeem took a much worse team and won the same amount of championship that lebron needed an all star team for. Think about that again.

Rings 2 - 2
FMVP 2 - 2

Difference? Lebron had a stacked team, Hakeem took a mediocre team all onto his shoulders.

[jzek]

Hakeem was never in the top 10 to begin with. I think this is the NEW most popular top 10 rankings:

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
LeBron

[Mr Exlax]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

hakeem took a mediocre team to the finals while lebron needed an all star team and ray allen to bail his ass out. All of a sudden he's top 4? :oldlol:
if ray allen had missed that 3, lebron would be barely top 20 right now. You should print ray's picture a4 size and paste it in your bathroom to pray to everyday.

^^^^^^ This is why I say you're mad Rip.

Hakeem is the only player that I can think of that won with a mediocre team. Kobe didn't do it. Jordan didn't do it. Lebron didn't do it. Kareem didn't do it. Shaq didn't do it. Wade didn't do it. Russell didin't do it. Wilt didn't do it.

[FKAri]

In terms of pure dominance, he's the second greatest player ever

How is he more dominant than Shaq or Wilt?

[alexd]

[QUOTE=2010splash]Without question LeBron now moves into the top 4-5 all time by winning his 4th MVP and 2nd straight Finals MVP. In terms of pure dominance, he's the second greatest player ever, but people seem to place heavy emphasis on team-based accomplishments, so even though they were worse players, maybe you'd rank guys like Kareem and Russell over LeBron. LeBron is also probably the second most clutch player ever as proven by his stats in elimination games and in Game 7s (just destroys so called clutch legends like Bird and Kobe). At this point I can say with a straight face that Jordan is the only player clearly ahead of LeBron.

LeBron now has literally the same r

[ripthekik]

^^^^^^ This is why I say you're mad Rip.

Hakeem is the only player that I can think of that won with a mediocre team. Kobe didn't do it. Jordan didn't do it. Lebron didn't do it. Kareem didn't do it. Shaq didn't do it. Wade didn't do it. Russell didin't do it. Wilt didn't do it.
Right. So you're agreeing with me then.
We have a level head, we're not in the moment like these lebron fans.
Good job not being washed over, although I know you're a big fan of lebron too.

[rhythmic]

Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh 12/7 for the playoffs. All-stars in name of course, but they hardly played like all-stars throughout the playoffs. Hakeem never had a dominant playoff run like 2012 LeBron (30+ PER) and he was a much worse regular season player (1 MVP to LeBron's 4 MVPs). Similar to Kobe, 1 MVP shows you weren't dominant enough to warrant top 5 mention.

Comparing Hakeem to LeBron at this point is simply retarded. Anyone who thinks LeBron is outside the top 5 at this point is just using wack logic.

:roll: You lost all credibility with that remark.

[rhythmic]

1) Jordan (100/100 dominance, 95/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 100/100winning, 80/100 longevity)
2) Kareem (90/100 dominance, 95/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 100/100 winning, 98/100 longevity)
3) Russell (75/100, 100/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 100/100 winning, 80/100 longevity)
4) Magic (95/100 dominance, 100/100 fundamentals, 90/100 achievements, 95/100 winning, 60/100 longevity)
5) Wilt (100/100 dominance, 90/100 achievements, 80/100 fundamentals, 70/100 winning, 80/100 longevity)
6) Bird (90/100 dominance, 90/100 achievements, 95/100 fundamentals, 90/100 winning, 60/100 longevity)
7) Kobe (95/100 dominance, 70/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 95/100 winning, 100/100 longevity)
8) Duncan (90/100 dominance, 100/100fundamentals, 95/100 achievements, 100/100 winning, 80/100 longevity)
9) Shaquille (100/100 dominance, 75/100 fundamentals, 90/100 achievements, 90/100 winning, 75/100 longevity)
10) LeBron (95/100 dominance, 100/100 fundamentals, 90/100 achievements (so far), 70/100 winning (so far), TBD for longevity)

[Mr Exlax]

Right. So you're agreeing with me then.
We have a level head, we're not in the moment like these lebron fans.
Good job not being washed over, although I know you're a big fan of lebron too.

I'm not agreeing with you. The rest of the Heat didn't play up to their potential this season. It's clear as day. They had their moments of course, but we all know Wade and Bosh can play better than they did. I'll say they're stacked, but I'm smart enough to know they didn't perform like a stacked team.

I said he was a top 10 player in terms of skill level and impact on games before he won his first championship. When people say these top 10 lists, are they talking skill or are they talking career accomplishments? Again though, I'm not hung up on players. I love the game. For somebody to say Kobe is better than Lebron because he has 5 rings is stupid as hell to me. That's how fans evaluate players. That's not how coaches and students of the game evaluate players. Have you played organized basketball before Rip?

[ripthekik]

I'm not agreeing with you. The rest of the Heat didn't play up to their potential this season. It's clear as day. They had their moments of course, but we all know Wade and Bosh can play better than they did. I'll say they're stacked, but I'm smart enough to know they didn't perform like a stacked team.

I said he was a top 10 player in terms of skill level and impact on games before he won his first championship. When people say these top 10 lists, are they talking skill or are they talking career accomplishments? Again though, I'm not hung up on players. I love the game. For somebody to say Kobe is better than Lebron because he has 5 rings is stupid as hell to me. That's how fans evaluate players. That's not how coaches and students of the game evaluate players. Have you played organized basketball before Rip?
I definitely have. Started 2 years in varsity, and played intramural pretty often in college. What does that have to do with anything?

I disagree with the potential part. They don't always have to produce their superstar numbers. That doesn't make sense. If you put team USA together, everyone's stats suffers. That doesn't mean they are playing at a less level.
What's important is their potential. Such as how Wade always coming up in big moments and played like a top 2 SG. Bosh stepping up in game 6 to snatch the rebounds and block big shots. Ray stepping up to make those threes.

That's the reason for having a stacked team. Every gets to do less than they did before, but they just have to provide in spurts and it helps the team.

[r15mohd]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

your top 5 is good, but Kobe that high and even greater than Shaq? :wtf:

1-Jordan
2-Kareem
3-Russel
4-Magic
5-Wilt
6-Bird/Shaq
6-Shaq/Bird
8-Duncan
9-Hakeem
10-Lebron

after last night...it's as solid as concrete that James is top 10

:rolleyes: Kobe won more, achieved more accolodes, and has far greater longevity then Shaquille. Kobe isn't top 10 and LeBron is? :biggums:

Jesus this board is infected with idiots & haters.

[r15mohd]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Jacks3]

Kobe without Shaq: 2 rings, 3 Finals, NBA MVP, 2X Finals MVP

Shaq without Kobe: 1 ring,

Moron.


:oldlol:

[livinglegend]

Kobe without Shaq: 2 rings, 3 Finals, NBA MVP, 2X Finals MVP

Shaq without Kobe: 1 ring,

Moron.


:oldlol:

Fisher without Kobe: Finals, 2nd round exit
Kobe without Fisher: 2nd round exit, 1 round exit

[DMAVS41]

I need to think a little more, but right now my list looks like;

MJ
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Lebron
Bird
Hakeem
Kobe

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

[QUOTE=2010splash]Without question LeBron now moves into the top 4-5 all time by winning his 4th MVP and 2nd straight Finals MVP. In terms of pure dominance, he's the second greatest player ever, but people seem to place heavy emphasis on team-based accomplishments, so even though they were worse players, maybe you'd rank guys like Kareem and Russell over LeBron. LeBron is also probably the second most clutch player ever as proven by his stats in elimination games and in Game 7s (just destroys so called clutch legends like Bird and Kobe). At this point I can say with a straight face that Jordan is the only player clearly ahead of LeBron.

LeBron now has literally the same r

[BBallZen83]

I think its safe to say that Lebron is a top 5 talent and if his career ends up matching his talent when it is all said and done, he can very well end up a top 5 player. He will never surpass Jordan. Just not gonna happen. With his combination of talent and career achievements at this point I think most people are going to start ranking him around 10 after this championship

[rhythmic]

a lot of Kobe's success is due to Shaq, not the other way around...might want to rethink this a little for yourself

and funny how you mention accolades btwn Shaq and Kobe but then in uproar over Lebron being in my top 10 over Kobe...wanna guess who has the better "accolades" to date?

1) Shaq hasn't won anything prior to Kobe becoming a star. In fact he was swept quite often. He has won 1 championship after departing from LA, surprisingly with another superstar (Wade). Kobe won more titles without Shaquille while playing alongside an inferior player (Gasol). They won together, Shaquille being a bigger part, but Kobe was a superstar in 01' & 02' (top five player). He also proved he can win without Shaq later in his career, it's such a stupid cop-out.

2) Kobe has achieved more accolodes then LeBron (more all-stars, 1st team All-NBA & 1st team All-Defense etc.). LeBron has more MVPs but then again so does Nash. In fact Nash has more MVPs then both Kobe & Shaq. James is on his way to becoming a more accomplished player but he is not there yet. Lets wait and see if he can sustain the same longevity as Kobe has. Kobe also has won more titles in his career, which should obviously be taken into account.

James is 10th on my list but he isn't even 30 yet; so I don't understand how it isn't a compliment of the highest regard. Not even Jordan was considered this highly at 28 years of age...

Just be realistic, some of you are overrating LeBron so much it's sickening. Lets his career unfold, all you're doing is disrespecting the other legends. Those guys have simply achieved more then James has at this point, but he is well on his way to becoming a top five player of all-time (something Kobe probably won't achieve at this point).

As it stands right now? There's just no way James is ahead of Kobe, Shaq, or Duncan.

[2010splash]

All stars are all stars. The 2013 Miami Heat had 3 of the East's starting all stars. Think about that. Look at wade's stats in the last couple of games. It's something only top SG's can produce.

Hakeem took a much worse team and won the same amount of championship that lebron needed an all star team for. Think about that again.

Rings 2 - 2
FMVP 2 - 2

Difference? Lebron had a stacked team, Hakeem took a mediocre team all onto his shoulders.
Nope. Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh averaged 12/7 in the playoffs. Thus, they were not all-stars in the playoffs, which is what we are talking about. Hakeem also led his team to a pathetic 6th seed while LeBron led his team to one of the all-time greatest regular seasons.

LeBron had far more dominant playoff runs than Hakeem (30.3 PER, 28.1 PER is something Hakeem has never done in his life) and with far more memorable/iconic legendary playoff games. LeBron dropped 40/18/9 in a crucial Game 4 at Indiana in 2012 and had the greatest playoff game ever with 45/15/5 on 19/26 in an elimination game at Boston. Then just dropped 37/12/4 on 12/23 in a Game 7 must-win. Hakeem by contrast shot a pitiful 10/25 in his Game 7 in 1994.

LeBron is much better than Hakeem and Kobe. If the 4 MVP

[gengiskhan]

Kobe without Shaq: 2 rings, 3 Finals, NBA MVP, 2X Finals MVP

Shaq without Kobe: 1 ring,

Moron.


:oldlol:

Kobe was never in Top 10 to begin with.

LBJ locked #10th or #9 position on GOAT list threatening Big O.

Kobe is an "all-timer". #11-#15 not a GOAT.

Hakeem is safe above Shaq in Top 8 GOAT list

HINT: 1995 NBA Finals FMVP over Shaq.

[Le Shaqtus]

Insecurities at an all time high.

[2010splash]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[LockoutOver11]

No reason to ever post here again.... 90 percent of u are just like op.

Guess what? Fuke bron... **** kobe... *** stern... **** nba.... **** insidehoops....

Queers.....

[Magic 32]

[QUOTE=2010splash]Nope. Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh averaged 12/7 in the playoffs. Thus, they were not all-stars in the playoffs, which is what we are talking about. Hakeem also led his team to a pathetic 6th seed while LeBron led his team to one of the all-time greatest regular seasons.

LeBron had far more dominant playoff runs than Hakeem (30.3 PER, 28.1 PER is something Hakeem has never done in his life) and with far more memorable/iconic legendary playoff games. LeBron dropped 40/18/9 in a crucial Game 4 at Indiana in 2012 and had the greatest playoff game ever with 45/15/5 on 19/26 in an elimination game at Boston. Then just dropped 37/12/4 on 12/23 in a Game 7 must-win. Hakeem by contrast shot a pitiful 10/25 in his Game 7 in 1994.

LeBron is much better than Hakeem and Kobe. If the 4 MVP

[2010splash]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[2010splash]

Yet one shot away from complete humiliation. Send Ray a christmas card.
You should send Artest one too. If he doesn't rebound Kobe's airball for a buzzer beater in Game 5 of the 2010 WCF against Phoenix, it's possible Kobe never repeats.

[ripthekik]

Kobe doesn't get credit for being gifted a prime Shaq (and thus several titles)

and Lebron shouldn't get full credit for having a stacked team, two all star starters, one of the best shooters of all time to bail him out.

Lebron is getting Kobe's shaq rings currently, and he only has two. When he gets three, AND get 2 where he only needed 1 star, THEN we can talk.

As of now Hakeem still >>> Lebron. Check his stats.

[dh144498]

[QUOTE=2010splash]:roll:
You put Wilt and Shaq at 100/100 dominance and yet you rank LeBron at 95/100 with Kobe and Magic? LeBron is at 100/100 dominance along with Jordan, Wilt and Shaq. Magic, Kobe and Kareem were perhaps fit to be LeBron

[2010splash]

I think its safe to say that Lebron is a top 5 talent and if his career ends up matching his talent when it is all said and done, he can very well end up a top 5 player. He will never surpass Jordan. Just not gonna happen. With his combination of talent and career achievements at this point I think most people are going to start ranking him around 10 after this championship
"Around 10"? :oldlol:

I wonder where people rank Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Wilt, etc. If LeBron is "around 10" then those guys are even lower.

[dh144498]

1) Jordan (100/100 dominance, 95/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 100/100winning, 80/100 longevity)
2) Kareem (90/100 dominance, 95/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 100/100 winning, 98/100 longevity)
3) Russell (75/100, 100/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 100/100 winning, 80/100 longevity)
4) Magic (95/100 dominance, 100/100 fundamentals, 90/100 achievements, 95/100 winning, 60/100 longevity)
5) Wilt (100/100 dominance, 90/100 achievements, 80/100 fundamentals, 70/100 winning, 80/100 longevity)
6) Bird (90/100 dominance, 90/100 achievements, 95/100 fundamentals, 90/100 winning, 60/100 longevity)
7) Kobe (95/100 dominance, 70/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 95/100 winning, 100/100 longevity)
8) Duncan (90/100 dominance, 100/100fundamentals, 95/100 achievements, 100/100 winning, 80/100 longevity)
9) Shaquille (100/100 dominance, 75/100 fundamentals, 90/100 achievements, 90/100 winning, 75/100 longevity)
10) LeBron (95/100 dominance, 100/100 fundamentals, 90/100 achievements (so far), 70/100 winning (so far), TBD for longevity)

just a question, why do you have Kobe's fundamentals at 70? Is fundamentals on this list "approach to the game"?

[Magic 32]

You should send Artest one too. If he doesn't rebound Kobe's airball for a buzzer beater in Game 5 of the 2010 WCF against Phoenix, it's possible Kobe never repeats.

Still a 4 time champion if he lost that game. And he was in his last prime year (and 3 years removed from his peak years).

Losing 2 finals at your peak (with home court) would have been devastating.

Lebron just became the luckiest player in NBA history.

[2010splash]

and Lebron shouldn't get full credit for having a stacked team, two all star starters, one of the best shooters of all time to bail him out.

Lebron is getting Kobe's shaq rings currently, and he only has two. When he gets three, AND get 2 where he only needed 1 star, THEN we can talk.

As of now Hakeem still >>> Lebron. Check his stats.
Kobe was riding the coattails of the most dominant center in NBA history. LeBron teamed up with a superstar and an all-star who didn't play like a superstar or all-star in either of his two championship playoff runs. Wade played at an all-star level last year in the playoffs but not this season, and Bosh has not played at an all-star level in either of the two titles (last year was injured for half of it anyway).

Meanwhile Kobe was playing second fiddle to a guy averaging 30/15/3 in the playoffs. LeBron LEADS HIS TEAM in literally everything

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Duncan
Lebron
Kobe/Hakeem

No order, top 10 IMO.

[2010splash]

Still a 4 time champion if he lost that game. And he was in his last prime year (and 3 years removed from his peak years).

Losing 2 finals at your peak (with home court) would have been devastating.

Lebron just became the luckiest player in NBA history.
Win = win. Championship = championship. Finals MVP = Finals MVP. Doesn't matter how it's done as long as you dominated and were clutch.

Basically we shouldn't assign equal weight/credit to Kobe's 2010 Finals MVP and LeBron's 2013 Finals MVP. Many people don't even believe Kobe was the Finals MVP that year AND he shot 6/24 in the closeout Game 7. Meanwhile nobody disputes that LeBron is Finals MVP AND he had one of the best Game 7‘s ever and hit a clutch dagger to seal the game and the Finals.

Otherwise we might as well give Billups or Pierce the same amount of credit as Jordan/Shaq/LeBron for a single Finals MVP.

[rhythmic]

just a question, why do you have Kobe's fundamentals at 70? Is fundamentals on this list "approach to the game"?

Yep, I consider fundamentals things like decision-making.

[rhythmic]

Kobe was riding the coattails of the most dominant center in NBA history. LeBron teamed up with a superstar and an all-star who didn't play like a superstar or all-star in either of his two championship playoff runs. Wade played at an all-star level last year in the playoffs but not this season, and Bosh has not played at an all-star level in either of the two titles (last year was injured for half of it anyway).

Meanwhile Kobe was playing second fiddle to a guy averaging 30/15/3 in the playoffs. LeBron LEADS HIS TEAM in literally everything – scores the most, assists the most, rebounds the most, steals/blocks the most, shuts down the other team’s best player the most, makes the most clutch plays, etc.

I checked the stats. LeBron's stats put Hakeem's to shame. Hakeem is on Kobe's level at around #10 or #11. LeBron is currently at #4, very similar to Wilt.

:roll: What a troll.
You put Magic on Cleveland & Miami and I bet you any money he has more success then LeBron has had. Dude is quickly becoming the most overrated player ever. His fans (like you) are so desperate to include him with players like Kareem, Jordan & Magic... :rolleyes:

Kid hasn't achieved thier greatness; he's basically Oscar Robertson with 1 more ring and played in a media happy era that gifted him MVPs to boost his legacy. His competition for MVP's was pathetic to boost.

Chris Paul, aging Kobe/Garnett/Duncan, injury prone Wade, Howard was his main competition. :rolleyes:

Jordan would have won 6-7 straight MVPs during that time span, and Magic too.

Problem with people like you is that you never consider context.

[deja vu]

LeBron is still outside top 10 in my opinion. He still has lots of time to move up higher, so I don't why LeBron stans are so quick to rank him in the top 5. :facepalm

[2010splash]

LeBron is still outside top 10 in my opinion. He still has lots of time to move up higher, so I don't why LeBron stans are so quick to rank him in the top 5. :facepalm
Keep up the trolling gee. I gotta admit I always get a kick out of reading your posts.

Outside the top 10? :roll: Top 5 easily. If Wilt is top 3-4, so is LeBron.

[rule1223]

2 asterisk championships and finals mvps put lebron in the top 5? do you think the nba is a joke? bring up the topic again when lebron doesnt struggle to win a championship in the weakest playoffs of all time, armed with the most stacked team relative to the league of all time

[ripthekik]

2 asterisk championships and finals mvps put lebron in the top 5? do you think the nba is a joke? bring up the topic again when lebron doesnt struggle to win a championship in the weakest playoffs of all time, armed with the most stacked team relative to the league of all time
:applause:

[2010splash]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[r15mohd]

1) Shaq hasn't won anything prior to Kobe becoming a star. In fact he was swept quite often. He has won 1 championship after departing from LA, surprisingly with another superstar (Wade). Kobe won more titles without Shaquille while playing alongside an inferior player (Gasol). They won together, Shaquille being a bigger part, but Kobe was a superstar in 01' & 02' (top five player). He also proved he can win without Shaq later in his career, it's such a stupid cop-out.

2) Kobe has achieved more accolodes then LeBron (more all-stars, 1st team All-NBA & 1st team All-Defense etc.). LeBron has more MVPs but then again so does Nash. In fact Nash has more MVPs then both Kobe & Shaq. James is on his way to becoming a more accomplished player but he is not there yet. Lets wait and see if he can sustain the same longevity as Kobe has. Kobe also has won more titles in his career, which should obviously be taken into account.

James is 10th on my list but he isn't even 30 yet; so I don't understand how it isn't a compliment of the highest regard. Not even Jordan was considered this highly at 28 years of age...

Just be realistic, some of you are overrating LeBron so much it's sickening. Lets his career unfold, all you're doing is disrespecting the other legends. Those guys have simply achieved more then James has at this point, but he is well on his way to becoming a top five player of all-time (something Kobe probably won't achieve at this point).

As it stands right now? There's just no way James is ahead of Kobe, Shaq, or Duncan.


I don't rate James ahead of Shaq or Duncan, nor do I have Kobe ahead of them either. Your justification for Kobe being higher than the two is accolades based, however the other ranks you list include dominance and other leaning factors, yet Kobe is excused from this for what reason?

Where does Kobe’s dismal years place him, why is it overlooked that he couldn’t get a team to the playoffs or out the 1st round, all while being in his prime. To me, you have to factor in everything…you mention Shaq being swept before, yes that’s true, but he got them into contention of playoff basketball and even into the Finals the year after (albeit against the better Hakeem at the time). Shaq was in the beginning stages of becoming the most dominant player to ever touch a basketball…you can’t refute that when comparing Kobe and Shaq, nor can you state that Shaq wasn’t the leading force behind those 3 rings. Kobe did contribute his fair share…but those titles were built around Shaq, not the other way around. It’s not a cop-out, to indicate Kobe was the driving factor is using it as a scapegoat to heighten his stature amongst this list.

Also, Kobe has no reason to be ranked higher than TD, TD has been by far the most consistent and a dominating factor throughout his tenure since stepping into the league, not to mention the longevity which you tout with Kobe as well. If you’re trying to build a team and you have TD, Shaq or Kobe to pick from…Kobe isn’t being taken #1 or 2 by organizations. This is the most dominant center and the best PF to ever play the game, and teams build around these powerhouses. With Kobe, you still need that extra body to get you a winning record, much less playoff hopes.

You have an issue with me ranking Kobe out of the top 10 and replacing him with Lebron…I can see how that can be but I do disagree as Lebron has that dominating factor on the court as he is doing almost everything Magic did, and at times, at a higher level too as well as the stats, accolades, etcs to support it. But to then rank Kobe above Duncan and Shaq? This is definitely more emotionally built IMO.

[Jacks3]

2 asterisk championships and finals mvps put lebron in the top 5? do you think the nba is a joke? bring up the topic again when lebron doesnt struggle to win a championship in the weakest playoffs of all time, armed with the most stacked team relative to the league of all time
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[2010splash]

Kobe has 3 sidekick titles and never had a truly great Finals performance out of 7 attempts besides 2002. That

[KG215]

You people realize 2010splash is trolling, right? He was a huge LeBron hater when he first joined the Heat. The guy is a f***ing moron.

[2010splash]

KG215 = troll, to be ignored. You don't have anything of value to contribute, then get out of my thread. Not my fault your arguments are always so weak they aren't even worthy of rebuttals. :oldlol:

[fiddy]

KG215 = troll, to be ignored. You don't have anything of value to contribute, then get out of my thread.
Get out of our world, ****ing retard.

[rhythmic]

I don't rate James ahead of Shaq or Duncan, nor do I have Kobe ahead of them either. Your justification for Kobe being higher than the two is accolades based, however the other ranks you list include dominance and other leaning factors, yet Kobe is excused from this for what reason? (1)

Where does Kobe’s dismal years place him, why is it overlooked that he couldn’t get a team to the playoffs or out the 1st round, all while being in his prime. (2) To me, you have to factor in everything…you mention Shaq being swept before, yes that’s true, but he got them into contention of playoff basketball and even into the Finals the year after (albeit against the better Hakeem at the time). Shaq was in the beginning stages of becoming the most dominant player to ever touch a basketball…you can’t refute that when comparing Kobe and Shaq, nor can you state that Shaq wasn’t the leading force behind those 3 rings. (3) Kobe did contribute his fair share…but those titles were built around Shaq, not the other way around. (4) It’s not a cop-out, to indicate Kobe was the driving factor is using it as a scapegoat to heighten his stature amongst this list.

Also, Kobe has no reason to be ranked higher than TD, TD has been by far the most consistent and a dominating factor throughout his tenure since (5) stepping into the league, not to mention the longevity which you tout with Kobe as well. If you’re trying to build a team and you have TD, Shaq or Kobe to pick from…Kobe isn’t being taken #1 or 2 by organizations (6). This is the most dominant center and the best PF to ever play the game, and teams build around these powerhouses. With Kobe, you still need that extra body to get you a winning record, much less playoff hopes.

You have an issue with me ranking Kobe out of the top 10 and replacing him with Lebron…I can see how that can be but I do disagree as Lebron has that dominating factor on the court as he is doing almost everything Magic did, and at times, at a higher level too as well as the stats, accolades, etcs to support it. But to then rank Kobe above Duncan and Shaq? This is definitely more emotionally built IMO.

1) Shaquille was more dominant then Kobe (in his prime), I would never disagree with that. However, Kobe has won more, achieved more accolodes and has had a longer longevity. I mean he's arguably the 3rd best player in the league in his 17th season. He has also won more titles, achieved more accolodes then Tim Duncan; I see Duncan & Kobe as equally dominant, however, I would also pick Duncan over Kobe (in their respective prime) because big man are more valuable to a team.

2) Kobe has missed the playoffs once in 2005. Him, Odom & Butler all missed time and their head coach left with an illness during the middle of the season. LA actually had a winning record and were in the playoff picture before Rudy left the team. They had a 10-28 record under the interim coach (when all the injuries started to occur). He almost helped upset a 2nd seeded Phoenix squad in 06' (dropping 50 in game 6, and hitting a game winner to take a commanding 3-1 lead). He even started off great in game 7 but Phoenix were far superior as a team and just blew LA out of the water. He had terrible teammates those years; Smush, Walton, Mihm, Kwame (all are either out of the league or playing small roles). Those were his STARTERS man, plus they had an inconsistent Lamar Odom as the 2nd best player. Kobe still won over 40 games with them, dominating the league in scoring those years. Those were his weakest seasons (win wise) besides this past year (but again, this season everyone on LA were injured).

3) Shaquille was obviously the most important player on LA during that dynasty. He was (to me) the most dominant force during those 3 years in league history. However, you also can't dispute that in 01' & 02' Kobe was a superstar (top five player easily). He was to go to guy on LA while Shaq was a liability due to his poor free throw shooting. Fact is, Shaquille had a great team before Kobe established himself in the league. He had Campbell, Jones & Van Axel and still got swept more then once. He had Penny before that in Orlando and couldn't win a title. Kobe did so with Pau Gasol, who's arguably worse then Penny was. Kobe was an essential piece to that dynasty; and he did quite a bit of damage during that run.

4) Those titles were built around Shaquille; in fact the whole roster complimented Shaq's talent and not Kobe's. But it's an absolute cop-out to say that Kobe's first 3 titles don't count. They won together, and history proves that Shaquille couldn't get it done without Kobe. So how exactly did Shaq carry Kobe to those championships? If he couldn't do it himself... just makes no sense to me.

5) Duncan has had a good team around since 99'. He has had Pop by his side his entire career. Duncan has not been more consistent as a player, what are you even talking about? Duncan hasn't been a superstar since like 08'. Kobe is still considered a superstar and he entered the league before Duncan did. You mean Duncan's team has consistently won more? Then yes, but there are other variables to consider (which you haven't). Kobe has won more titles, achieved more accolodes and has had Duncan's number their entire careers. So I don't understand how it's a poor choice on my part to select Kobe over Duncan.

6) If we were comparing Kobe, Duncan & Shaq's respective peak years; then I would have to pick Kobe last. But you just can't ignore the fact that Kobe has achieved more in this league and has won more titles then either of them due to his longer longevity. I pick Kobe above both of them because he has been a dominant force in this league far longer then either.

[KG215]

KG215 = troll, to be ignored. You don't have anything of value to contribute, then get out of my thread. Not my fault your arguments are always so weak they aren't even worthy of rebuttals. :oldlol:
How are my arguemtns weak?

You just say things like "LeBron is top 5 all-time" as if it's a fact, and just move on to the next post. Which I find odd coming from a poster who was on the other side of the fence just a few years ago, and were posting about how much you hated LeBron and had no respect for him for joining the Heat.

[2010splash]

You resort to off-topic ad hominems because your arguments on actual basketball-related matter get shredded to pieces. You post outlandish nonsense like "Bird > LeBron" and "Kareem = GOAT" and complain when people disagree. I always get a kick out of reading your posts. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[rhythmic]

You resort to off-topic ad hominems because your arguments on actual basketball-related matter get shredded to pieces. You post outlandish nonsense like "Bird > LeBron" and "Kareem = GOAT" and complain when people disagree. I always get a kick out of reading your posts. :oldlol: :oldlol:

Bird is better then LeBron, how is that outlandish nonsense? :facepalm

[2010splash]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[dh144498]

Sure he is... at darts or checkers.

Bird does nothing better than LeBron. His stats are worse than LeBron's. He's a scrub defender compared to LeBron. Can you imagine if Bird was asked to guard a Parker or Rose? They'd run circles around him. LeBron shuts down everyone.

:biggums:

Bird averages 10 rebounds for his whole career.

now suddenly 10 < 7. lebron-tard logic. :roll: