Better overall passer: Larry Bird or LeBron James?

[hawkfan]

Better overall passer: Larry Bird (during his prime) or LeBron James (currently in his prime)?

By overall, that means in all situations: out of double teams, in the post, pick and rolls, driving to the basket, etc.?

This is a tough call. Might be even.

[FatComputerNerd]

Too close to call really, but I think LeBron might have the slight edge via his amazing court-vision.

Larry was an amazing passer though...

[Harison]

Anyone who watched both its an easy question - Larry. Not only he had a greater court vision, but also off the charts BBIQ. He also didnt had to dominate the ball to get the assists.

[Derka]

I've watched a ton of both and I go with Larry.

[andgar923]

Not this stupid shit again.

Bron aint even a better passer than MJ let alone Bird.

[Replay32]

I'll give a slight edge to Bird. He could get you the ball in more ways.

[DaSeba5]

Slight edge to Bird

[tikay0]

Bird. C'mon OP. Come up with a harder question than this.

[DatAsh]

Not this stupid shit again.

Bron aint even a better passer than MJ let alone Bird.

James by his 2nd year in the league was a better passer than Jordan.

[sportjames23]

Anyone who watched both its an easy question - Larry. Not only he had a greater court vision, but also off the charts BBIQ. He also didnt had to dominate the ball to get the assists.


/thread

[sportjames23]

James by his 2nd year in the league was a better passer than Jordan.


LOL, no.


/thread Part 2

[andgar923]

Slight edge to Bird?

He made plays before they even happened, while Bron holds the ball forever more times than not.

Technically speaking Bron is on his level, but in regards to IQ and timing Bird is miles ahead so I don't see how it's a 'slight' edge for Bird.

I think Magic cringes and laughs inside when they make comparisons to him as well. Magic didn't need an entire shot clock to dribble dribble dribble and decide, he was almost immediate with his decisions and execution.

Yes Bron is great in his own right but people as usual get carried away living in the now and quickly forget about how great Bird and Magic were. With Magic and Bird you never knew how, to whom or when the passes were gonna come. Meanwhile you can see Bron telegraph many of his passes, almost predictable to see what he's gonna do.

[andgar923]

James by his 2nd year in the league was a better passer than Jordan.
:roll: :roll:

[Electric Slide]

Passer: Bird
Playmaker: Lebron

[FatComputerNerd]

Bump.

Would love to see more peoples' opinion on this one.

The "Most dominant possible team" (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=313121) thread got me thinking about it.

[OldSkoolball#52]

OP u slippin dawg

[Iceman#44]

Bird

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bird

Had this discussion plenty of times here.

Bird could see the play before it fully developed (simply, higher IQ than James), it was like he was watching the game in his TV at home instead of actually being there playing, knew where his teammates were going to and you didn't even understand the pass before it all went down, he could, literally, create all types of passes, he made it extremely flashy but with a purpose, put the proper spin, made the bounce when needed, just flicks of the wrist, his touches passes were unreal and he's also, imo, the greatest outlet passer ever as he would throw the full length with enormous precision and with either hand, QB-like. Plenty of Bird-like passes I've never seen Lebron doing as opposed to the other way around. Regarding passing, Bird is top 5 in my book, Lebron's like top 15/20.
People who've seen enough from Bird, whether back then or now with youtube and whatnot, and understand the game, can tell that Larry was the better passer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk

^ Lebron can't really **** with that, and that's footage from a guy who've played like 30 years ago.

You also hear some people say Lebron can handle the point, playmake and pass like Magic, while not all that far is still :facepalm worthy.

Larry didn't have the lateral quickness to play like a "real" PG like Lebron does countless times though, that's also one of the reasons that makes James so valuable.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Theres a difference between passing IQ and ability to create off the dribble.

Dont get me wrong Lebron still has a high passing IQ, but a lot of his effectiveness is bc how he can handle the ball at his size and create.

Bird could see and fire off instantaneous passes all over the court. Magic combined both things which is why hes Magic.

Actually Wade is probably the most creative passer on the Heat. Lebron is obviously still the most effective overall.

[Trollsmasher]

Bird's erratic, hot potato passing would earn him 6 TOs per game in today's superior defensive league.

Bird has the IQ on the same level or maybe even higher than LeBron, but he simply does not have an arm strenght to compete with LeBron in terms of precision and speed in which LeBron can get the ball to his open man.

You kids, who did not watch Larry play, see a video on youtube and think that Bird always completed his crazy passes, while in fact he turned the ball over half of the time. There is a reason you won't see that kind of hot potato basketball in today's league.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV1wATe1sNs

[CavaliersFTW]

Bird's erratic, hot potato passing would earn him 6 TOs per game in today's superior defensive league.

Bird has the IQ on the same level or maybe even higher than LeBron, but he simply does not have an arm strenght to compete with LeBron in terms of precision and speed in which LeBron can get the ball to his open man.

You kids, who did not watch Larry play, see a video on youtube and think that Bird always completed his crazy passes, while in fact he turned the ball over half of the time. There is a reason you won't see that kind of hot potato basketball in today's league.
Turnovers per game:

Reg Season
Bird 3.1 > Lebron 3.3

Playoffs
Bird 3.1 >> Lebron 3.5 (gets guarded by guys like Diaw)

:confusedshrug:

[mugiwara]

Bird's erratic, hot potato passing would earn him 6 TOs per game in today's superior defensive league.

Bird has the IQ on the same level or maybe even higher than LeBron, but he simply does not have an arm strenght to compete with LeBron in terms of precision and speed in which LeBron can get the ball to his open man.

You kids, who did not watch Larry play, see a video on youtube and think that Bird always completed his crazy passes, while in fact he turned the ball over half of the time. There is a reason you won't see that kind of hot potato basketball in today's league.

arm strength? are you ****ing serious? ****

[ProfessorMurder]

Turnovers per game:

Reg Season
Bird 3.1 > Lebron 3.3

Playoffs
Bird 3.1 >> Lebron 3.5 (gets guarded by guys like Diaw)

:confusedshrug:

Don't forget how much more stretched out the game is now, and how zones are allowed now.

Bird would feast.

[Mass Debator]

Passer: Bird
Playmaker: Lebron
It's the other way around. Lebron is probably one of the best at running sets and Larry is one of the best at feeling the game and making something out of nothing.

[pauk]

As far as only vision/passing skills go you could go with either imo, i have seen as much as possible from both and all i can say for very certain is that their vision & passing skills is the best i ever seen from any non-PG....

But..... if with "overall passer" you mean a combination of all facets in that department..... facilitating/playmaking/assists, vision & passing skills? Then the answer is Lebron.... due to better ballhandling/ballcontrol it allows him to be more of a point-forward/distributor, these tools accompanied with that great vision/passing skills puts Lebron in a position to exercise that vision/passing skills more than Bird did... its kindof like comparing Magic Johnson to Larry Bird in this department, except Magic was better than Lebron or Bird (best ever afterall) in any type of department there is about passing....

[CavaliersFTW]

As far as only vision/passing skills go you could go with either imo, i have seen as much as possible from both and all i can say for very certain is that their vision & passing skills is the best i ever seen from any non-PG....

But..... if with "overall passer" you mean a combination of all facets in that department..... facilitating/playmaking/assists, vision & passing skills? Then the answer is Lebron.... due to better ballhandling/ballcontrol it allows him to be more of a point-forward/distributor, these tools accompanied with that great vision/passing skills puts Lebron in a position to exercise that vision/passing skills more than Bird did... its kindof like comparing Magic Johnson to Larry Bird in this department, except Magic was better than Lebron or Bird (best ever afterall) in any type of department there is about passing....
So, just so that we're all clear - you think Lebron has AS MUCH vision and skill as Larry Bird at passing (a dubious claim as it is) - but not only that, you feel that Larry Bird at the end of the day is actually somehow 'worse' than Lebron at 'overall' passing ability?




























:biggums:

[pauk]

Turnovers per game:

Reg Season
Bird 3.1 > Lebron 3.3

Playoffs
Bird 3.1 >> Lebron 3.5 (gets guarded by guys like Diaw)

:confusedshrug:

What does that have to do with any type of passing anyways? Lebron handles the ball more, the turnovers could be caused by much more than just passing.... like offensive fouls, fumbling the ball and better yet miscommunication in which even your teammates own actual fault for the turnover gives only the distributor a turnover on the statsheet....

Only way you could go forward here with turnovers is if you used assist-to-turnover ratio, which Lebron unfortunately is better at than Bird was.... and no that still doesnt make Lebron or Bird better/worse passers compared to eachother....

I understand your Lebron distaste for obvious Cleveland reasons but you need to stop that from getting in your way of being an objective basketball fan....

[secund2nun]

Don't forget how much more stretched out the game is now, and how zones are allowed now.

Bird would feast.

Lebron would average double digits assists back then in some seasons with the faster pace not to mention more scoring and rebounding.

[pauk]

So, just so that we're all clear - you think Lebron has AS MUCH vision and skill as Larry Bird at passing (a dubious claim as it is)

Yes? Why not? Is that really dubious!? Tell me why? Considering you are a Cavs fan i would expect you to have seen at least one game with Lebron and seen something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA and understood the degree of skill he has in this department.... but for the same reason of you being a Cavs fan, like i said, i could understand why that would be the culprit behind your objections against anything that has to do with Lebron....



but not only that, you feel that Larry Bird at the end of the day is actually somehow 'worse' than Lebron at 'overall' passing ability?

Did you actually read & comprehend what i said above?

[jstern]

Though I've watched a lot more Lebron I have to go with Bird. Lebron makes the correct pass, but Bird from what I've seen of Bird he makes a lot of passes that I had no idea were there. Just so out of the box. And I'm not talking about highlight reel of his passing, but actual games.

[La Frescobaldi]

Bird

Had this discussion plenty of times here.

Bird could see the play before it fully developed (simply, higher IQ than James), it was like he was watching the game in his TV at home instead of actually being there playing, knew where his teammates were going to and you didn't even understand the pass before it all went down, he could, literally, create all types of passes, he made it extremely flashy but with a purpose, put the proper spin, made the bounce when needed, just flicks of the wrist, his touches passes were unreal and he's also, imo, the greatest outlet passer ever as he would throw the full length with enormous precision and with either hand, QB-like. Plenty of Bird-like passes I've never seen Lebron doing as opposed to the other way around. Regarding passing, Bird is top 5 in my book, Lebron's like top 15/20.
People who've seen enough from Bird, whether back then or now with youtube and whatnot, and understand the game, can tell that Larry was the better passer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk

^ Lebron can't really **** with that, and that's footage from a guy who've played like 30 years ago.

You also hear some people say Lebron can handle the point, playmake and pass like Magic, while not all that far is still :facepalm worthy.

Larry didn't have the lateral quickness to play like a "real" PG like Lebron does countless times though, that's also one of the reasons that makes James so valuable.
Dang didn't they have the rep thing turned on for like 2 hours? I went to click the button or however it works and it's already gone. You deserve about 10 of em

[Pushxx]

Bird. He figured out where his teammates would go instead of just where they are.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Bird, but both may be the 2 best passing non-guards ever

[bdreason]

Gimme Bird.

[Round Mound]

Passer: Bird = The Greatest Non Guard Passer Ever
Creator of Offense: Lebron (cause of ballhandling and driving skills)

[TheBigVeto]

Bird but not by much. Lebron is no slouch.

[CavaliersFTW]

Bird knows where his teammates are, and more importantly where they will go or be at in a split second at all times - his passes end up where his team mates WILL be. Lebron just passes to where his players currently ARE, and having him run an offense lends itself to a team with a rather stagnant looking team offense off the ball. There's a reason the '86 Celtics were one of the best passing teams of all-time where as all of Lebron's teams end up with Lebron dribbling at the top of the key draining the shot clock. Bird is a better passer... and a better player. If he had Lebron's athleticism he'd be far far superior than Lebron because he is so much more skilled and aware.

[sundizz]

The true difference is a representation more of the era they play in than whether one is better than the other or not. People that actually play basketball a lot understand that the type of game is dictated by everyone, not just one player.

In Bird's era there was a lot of movement with the pass, with creating with the pass, going inside out, etc. He was the KING of this. For us nowadays it seems like he was doing it on the fly...but he was simply an extension (the best extension) of his era. He made the quick pass, the pass that led to the pass, the creative pass, the seemingly ahead of the game pass. However, and this is a big however, it would not work the same for him today. Players nowadays rarely just all run and anticipate getting the ball. Nowadays, running in basketball is more part of the offense (e.g., Klay running off screens). Not to say it doesn't happen (e.g., Nash Suns), but the game tempo is drastically different, and the habits of players is drastically different.

Lebron does it the way that players of this era understand basketball. He does it with the dribble. He dominates the game usage. That is what players (post Jordan) are taught growing up, and how they play the game in the NBA (for better or worse). If he makes a Bird-esque pass to Chris Bosh..it is very unlikely Chris Bosh is going to be equally quick with his pass and swing it. Nowadays, it is a stop, stop type of basketball. However, he is by far the best at using the pass at this type of basketball. The fear of defenders of his athleticism, his ability to make shots at the rim, his pure power all create openings. He exploits this with high usage, creating just enough space and using his amazing accuracy, vision and pass speed (very underrated aspect of passing) to get players the ball where they are open long enough to shoot (e.g., Battier).

If you took Lebron and put him back in Bird's era...he could adapt and be just as deadly as Bird in that type of passing. He has the skill, the understanding, and the ability....he just doesn't have the same type of mentality around him in the NBA. People back then lived by the pass. People live by the dribble now.

Conversely, if you took Bird and put him in today's NBA he would not be able to use his teammates as well. However, he would still be an amazing passer. It just wouldn't look as much the same. It would come more through conventional pick and rolls, dribble drives pass outs, etc.

The only one that combined the two is Magic (as someone said). He is not era specific. He is Steve Nash IQ combined with Lebron size. He dictates how the game is played for the other 9 players. Lebron and Bird dictate the game, but are still constrained by the players natural tendencies in their respective eras.

Anyone, from high school on, should know that Lebron is a top 3 non-pg passer ever, and same with Bird. What is more debateable is whether Lebron's passing is effective, or whether he should dominate more by being more of an aggressive scorer.

[plowking]

I'd say Bird was the flashier, more dynamic passer.

Though, those raving on about how much better his vision and IQ is are simply hating the Heat or Lebron, because its popular to do on here.
Bron is throwing pin point, laser beam passes across the whole court. From one side to the other.
I've never seen anyone as good as Lebron in terms of getting it to the shooters pocket. He is the best, hands down, IMO. And I don't particular think anyone is close.

Its like asking who the better passer is between Kidd and Stockton. Kidd threw passes Stockton could never dream of, but then again, Stockton always got it to where the guys wanted it.

I grew up on Bird tapes, so I've played basketball emulating his play, but there is no way in hell I can emulate the type of passes Lebron makes, due to the sheer wrist strength needed. Never seen someone zip passes like that.

People on this forum are so intent on tearing down a particular player just to try and get a point across. Both are great passers.

[Fresh Kid]

bird was a better passer.

[senelcoolidge]

Watching Lebron hold the ball for nearly the whole shot clock is no fun. He's not aesthetically pleasing to watch. Like someone said with him the offense seems stagnant. Can Lebron play off the ball? I know Bird definitely could. Bird's passes were pin point and choreographed. Bird was just fluid. Didn't seem forced.

[Rose'sACL]

Watching Lebron hold the ball for nearly the whole shot clock is no fun. He's not aesthetically pleasing to watch. Like someone said with him the offense seems stagnant. Can Lebron play off the ball? I know Bird definitely could. Bird's passes were pin point and choreographed. Bird was just fluid. Didn't seem forced.
bird played in a different ERA where pace of the game was much quicker. Stop making stupid statements like most people in this thread.
Average points scored during lebron's prime has been around 97-99 pts whereas during bird's prime it was around 108-110 ppg.
Pace(possessions per 48 mins) has been around 90-92 during lebron's time whereas it was 100-103 during bird's time.

Assists per game during lebron's time has been around 20-22 apg whereas druing bird's time it was around 26 apg.

How can you guys not account for these factors before making stupid statements?

[pauk]

I'd say Bird was the flashier, more dynamic passer.

Though, those raving on about how much better his vision and IQ is are simply hating the Heat or Lebron, because its popular to do on here.
Bron is throwing pin point, laser beam passes across the whole court. From one side to the other.
I've never seen anyone as good as Lebron in terms of getting it to the shooters pocket. He is the best, hands down, IMO. And I don't particular think anyone is close.

Its like asking who the better passer is between Kidd and Stockton. Kidd threw passes Stockton could never dream of, but then again, Stockton always got it to where the guys wanted it.

I grew up on Bird tapes, so I've played basketball emulating his play, but there is no way in hell I can emulate the type of passes Lebron makes, due to the sheer wrist strength needed. Never seen someone zip passes like that.

People on this forum are so intent on tearing down a particular player just to try and get a point across. Both are great passers.

Look, Bird is right up there only behind Reggie my favorite player of all time... growing up i did nothing but watch recorded VHS tapes of 80s Bird as my father was a huge Celtic fan before his departure, trying to emulate his shot/moves etc... i too am very nostalgic & more biased towards that era, but i try very hard to not let that stop me from being an objective fan of the game....
My point is, I dont know if its due to agenda or knowledge or nostalgia, but some of these guys are definitely underestimating Lebron's passing ability..... he is right up there with Bird in this department... and maybe even better...

[Champ]

Bird was the more creative, improvisational passer. His assists came in greater variety than James'. Also better off the catch, the shot fake, and the pick and roll.

James is better off the dribble, and just might have the best zip on his passes in NBA history (though Bird is very, very close).

A see a few other clear advantages for Bird that haven't been mentioned yet.

- A better ambidextrous passer (he had a phenomenal left hand).
- A better outlet passer (aided by his superior defensive rebounding abilities, and the ability to throw the outlet with either hand).
- A better "touch" passer.

Something else that rarely comes up is that Bird was the Celtics' de facto inbound passer for the majority of his career, and to this day did it better than anyone I've ever seen. He was especially potent under the opposition's basket, often using a variety of lobs and bounce passes that led to easy buckets.

[colts19]

Bird was the more creative, improvisational passer. His assists came in greater variety than James'. Also better off the catch, the shot fake, and the pick and roll.

James is better off the dribble, and just might have the best zip on his passes in NBA history (though Bird is very, very close).

A see a few other clear advantages for Bird that haven't been mentioned yet.

- A better ambidextrous passer (he had a phenomenal left hand).
- A better outlet passer (aided by his superior defensive rebounding abilities, and the ability to throw the outlet with either hand).
- A better "touch" passer.

Something else that rarely comes up is that Bird was the Celtics' de facto inbound passer for the majority of his career, and to this day did it better than anyone I've ever seen. He was especially potent under the opposition's basket, often using a variety of lobs and bounce passes that led to easy buckets.

You Sir are a correct.

[KG215]

Look, Bird is right up there only behind Reggie my favorite player of all time... growing up i did nothing but watch recorded VHS tapes of 80s Bird as my father was a huge Celtic fan before his departure, trying to emulate his shot/moves etc... i too am very nostalgic & more biased towards that era, but i try very hard to not let that stop me from being an objective fan of the game....
My point is, I dont know if its due to agenda or knowledge or nostalgia, but some of these guys are definitely underestimating Lebron's passing ability..... he is right up there with Bird in this department... and maybe even better...
:oldlol:

So much bullshit in one post. You're about as biased as it gets when it comes to talking about LeBron. I mean hell, you started a thread about this where you cherry-picked some Youtube highlights, a 13 or 14 game stretch where LeBron played PG for the Cavs, and referenced APG numbers as to why LeBron is the better passer.

[La Frescobaldi]

The true difference is a representation more of the era they play in than whether one is better than the other or not. People that actually play basketball a lot understand that the type of game is dictated by everyone, not just one player.

In Bird's era there was a lot of movement with the pass, with creating with the pass, going inside out, etc. He was the KING of this. For us nowadays it seems like he was doing it on the fly...but he was simply an extension (the best extension) of his era. He made the quick pass, the pass that led to the pass, the creative pass, the seemingly ahead of the game pass. However, and this is a big however, it would not work the same for him today. Players nowadays rarely just all run and anticipate getting the ball. Nowadays, running in basketball is more part of the offense (e.g., Klay running off screens). Not to say it doesn't happen (e.g., Nash Suns), but the game tempo is drastically different, and the habits of players is drastically different.

Lebron does it the way that players of this era understand basketball. He does it with the dribble. He dominates the game usage. That is what players (post Jordan) are taught growing up, and how they play the game in the NBA (for better or worse). If he makes a Bird-esque pass to Chris Bosh..it is very unlikely Chris Bosh is going to be equally quick with his pass and swing it. Nowadays, it is a stop, stop type of basketball. However, he is by far the best at using the pass at this type of basketball. The fear of defenders of his athleticism, his ability to make shots at the rim, his pure power all create openings. He exploits this with high usage, creating just enough space and using his amazing accuracy, vision and pass speed (very underrated aspect of passing) to get players the ball where they are open long enough to shoot (e.g., Battier).

If you took Lebron and put him back in Bird's era...he could adapt and be just as deadly as Bird in that type of passing. He has the skill, the understanding, and the ability....he just doesn't have the same type of mentality around him in the NBA. People back then lived by the pass. People live by the dribble now.

Conversely, if you took Bird and put him in today's NBA he would not be able to use his teammates as well. However, he would still be an amazing passer. It just wouldn't look as much the same. It would come more through conventional pick and rolls, dribble drives pass outs, etc.

The only one that combined the two is Magic (as someone said). He is not era specific. He is Steve Nash IQ combined with Lebron size. He dictates how the game is played for the other 9 players. Lebron and Bird dictate the game, but are still constrained by the players natural tendencies in their respective eras.

Anyone, from high school on, should know that Lebron is a top 3 non-pg passer ever, and same with Bird. What is more debateable is whether Lebron's passing is effective, or whether he should dominate more by being more of an aggressive scorer.

This is very interesting. Yes.

I agree with a lot of it however, consider. If somebody waved a magic wand (no pun on Magic!) and Larry Bird were to appear in the NBA at 23 or 25, I submit that would change the entire way the League plays basketball today. Bird warped the entire League back then with his pure amazing-ness, and I believe he would do the same if he showed up today. The NBA would be forced to play by "Larry's Rules," just like it did back then. Fast, wide open, run and gun but with terrific focus on set plays and monstrous team defense in every aspect. Of course, Magic was equally a power in those days, but that doesn't change anything.

Conversely, if LeBron James were to jump in a time portal to 1983 he'd be a power forward or even, perhaps, a center. He's the same size as Magic, yes, but stronger, heavier. Of course, LBJ in those days may have weighed 215 instead of 250 or 260 but I doubt it. Big guys like him have been attracted to the weight room since Wilt Chamberlain showed the world what that could translate into on the basketball court. I doubt LBJ would stop being a gym rat just because he'd grown up in the '70s instead of the '90s - there were lots of plates getting banged on weight benches back then too.

Indeed, Bird had such impact that, I would submit further, the current NBA is built as much on the Bird model down low (overlaid, if you will, on the foundations of John Havlicek & Elgin Baylor), as it is the Jordan model for perimeter guys.

It is a measure of LBJ's greatness that in my view if he WERE playing in the '80s he would be viewed today as top 5 if not top #1 at the PF. That drastically different role would still suit LeBron James right down to the ground.

[cltcfn2924]

Bird's erratic, hot potato passing would earn him 6 TOs per game in today's superior defensive league.

Bird has the IQ on the same level or maybe even higher than LeBron, but he simply does not have an arm strenght to compete with LeBron in terms of precision and speed in which LeBron can get the ball to his open man.

You kids, who did not watch Larry play, see a video on youtube and think that Bird always completed his crazy passes, while in fact he turned the ball over half of the time. There is a reason you won't see that kind of hot potato basketball in today's league.

Half the time? Less t/o than Lebron. You lose.

[jayfan]

Lebron's name doesn't belong in the same sentence as Larry Bird when it comes to passing ability.

.

[Round Mound]

Bird's stationary passing is GOAT. Lebron is a great paasser better than MJ at that but not in the level of Magic, Bird, Stockton, Kidd, Nash etc

[Meticode]

Lebron's name doesn't belong in the same sentence as Larry Bird when it comes to passing ability.

.

But yet here you are, putting both their names in a sentence regarding passing ability. :lol

[Full Court]

Too close to call really, but I think LeBron might have the slight edge via his amazing court-vision.

Larry was an amazing passer though...


https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fc9PngtH RYl6xO%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

[Nowitness]

Halfcourt - LeBron
Fullcourt - Bird

Bird was a far better passer when it came to 'feel', he'd make plays on instinct when guys were trailing him or near the baseline, while James is more of an orchestrator who can read the defence and by doing so, know who will be open based on the move he makes.

I think James style of passing is more valuable overall, but both guys styles fit their era well.

[light]

Definitely LeBron. I mean, LeBron is a real point guard. He's perennially voted a top 3-5 point guard in the league by GMs. In the 2022 survey he's still ranked 4th at PG.

Bird was famous for setting passing records for forwards and LeBron has demolished all of Bird's records.

Take the assist per game record for forwards for example. Bird set that record with 7.6 assists per game. Bird was famous for setting that record. That record was mentioned on TV whenever the show praised Bird. Bird's passing reputation was based in part on him setting that record. LeBron broke Bird's record when he was 25 and he kept setting new records and now the current record is LeBron's unholy 10.2.

Bron is truly on another level in terms of sustained greatness as a passer whether over the course of a season or over the course of a career. Not even close.

https://i.ibb.co/wdbDLd2/Screen-Shot-2022-08-15-at-5-02-55-AM.png

[TheGoatest]

Lebron's name doesn't belong in the same sentence as Larry Bird when it comes to passing ability.

.

Agree. The claim that a player who has half as many career assists on a lower apg, as well as half as many career playoff assists, also on a lower playoff apg, being a better passer shouldn't even be dignified with a response.

[mr4speed]

Definitely LeBron. I mean, LeBron is a real point guard. He's perennially voted a top 3-5 point guard in the league by GMs. In the 2022 survey he's still ranked 4th at PG.

Bird was famous for setting passing records for forwards and LeBron has demolished all of Bird's records.

Take the assist per game record for forwards for example. Bird set that record with 7.6 assists per game. Bird was famous for setting that record. That record was mentioned on TV whenever the show praised Bird. Bird's passing reputation was based in part on him setting that record. LeBron broke Bird's record when he was 25 and he kept setting new records and now the current record is LeBron's unholy 10.2.

Bron is truly on another level in terms of sustained greatness as a passer whether over the course of a season or over the course of a career. Not even close.

https://i.ibb.co/wdbDLd2/Screen-Shot-2022-08-15-at-5-02-55-AM.png

Both are great passers and you just answered the question about why Lebron has more assists = "Lebron is a real point guard" meaning Lebron plays the point guard role and dominates by handling the ball. Bird NEVER played the PG position with relation to being the ball handler and ball dominator. If anything, I give the edge to Bird because the floor back then was much more packed with players as opposed to being spread out with the proliferation of 3 point shooting. Bird threw many of his passes through very tight windows and showed some amazing creativity, including full court bombs with great accuracy. Bird was the first guy I saw throwing bounce passes between the opponents legs . Also the argument over accumulating totals is silly when one player has played 19 years vs another player that played 12 years.

[jayfan]

But yet here you are, putting both their names in a sentence regarding passing ability. :lol
Ha. Well, OP put them in the same sentence. I'm merely responding to the notion.

[8Ball]

LeBron can play point guard.

Bird can't.

[jayfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am56lEY2kVQ

[8Ball]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Am56lEY2kVQ

Yeah bron has a million passing high lights.

Bron can play point guard at 35 and lead the league in assists.

Bird is up there for sure but just not as good.

[jayfan]

Yeah bron has a million passing high lights.

Bron can play point guard at 35 and lead the league in assists.

Bird is up there for sure but just not as good.

Leading the lead in assists is a different category. Westbrook has done it 3 times. Harden has done it as many times as Lebron has. Doesn't mean they're the greatest passers.

[1987_Lakers]

Both are the greatest passing forwards we have ever seen.

Bird probably had better vision, while LeBron's ability to handle the ball & drive to the hoop and collapsing the defense made him rack up more assists.

[John8204]

Lebron is great at a lot of things...but he's not the greatest at anything. Bird was the greatest passer I ever saw...he was basically a Harlem Globetrotter in the NBA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baBdnA7cui0

[SATAN]

Leading the lead in assists is a different category. Westbrook has done it 3 times. Harden has done it as many times as Lebron has. Doesn't mean they're the greatest passers.

LeBron is widely recognized as one of the best ever. :confusedshrug:

The other two are mainly recognized as selfish players.

[Full Court]

Lebron is the undisputed GOAT of turnovers. Don't forget about that.