NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

[LJJ]

Edward Snowden, of NSA whistleblowing fame, just landed in Moscow after Hong Kong allowed him to leave the country despite an extradition request from the US.

See news here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-arrives-moscow
Read Hong Kong's official statement here: http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201306/23/P201306230476.htm (the ending paragraph is priceless)

Reportedly he's only in Moscow for a pit stop, en route to Cuba/Venezuela/Equador. Looks like this story is going to dominate the news for a couple more weeks.

[kNIOKAS]

Very happy for Snowden and **** US government. :cheers:

[RidonKs]

i wonder if HK is playing games or if they genuinely didn't have enough info to extradite.. the charges of espionage are pretty easily dismissed i think by a neutral gov't but the theft of government documents is pretty much universal around the world im pretty sure. then again they might just be toying with the US and trying to extract a confession re cyber warfare like that last paragraph suggests


anyway, this was bound to dominate the news cycle for many more weeks, the Guardian (and to a lesser extent the Post) has been planning this thing for months -- Greenwald will likely be revealing more in the next week or so. he's always had major gripes with the MSM so he's probably looking (forward) to play it like a violin, let each exposure sink in for a week or so until it's just at the brink of being old news, then build into a crescendo to really emphasize the overall scandal

depends what else he's got in his pocket but everything he's said suggests that revelations so far are just the tip of the iceberg. lately he's continued to hammer home on the falseness of Obama's claims that a) nobody's listening to your phones and b) if they do it goes through a legal judicial process. his last two articles are about how empty that process really is given the rubber stamp nature of the FISA court.


im hoping the next series might well involve international / cyber warfare stuff. so far all i've really seen regarding "state on state" style spying is the UK/US maneuvers at the summit and the snapshot of "boundless informant" (http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/8/1370715185657/boundless-heatmap-large-001.jpg) which tracks amount of data the US takes from each country

if the guardian starts wading into that territory, greenwald/snowden may have a tougher time denying those "harming national security" / "aiding the enemy" charges that so far they haven't slipped into. i still wanna hear all about it of course lol



edit: apparently iceland is also a conceivable destination, they aren't so friendly with the US after the financial meltdown left them in ruins tho they haven't committed to granting asylum. an icelandish business man supposedly had a jet ready to take Snowden straight there from the mainland before he took off to russia

[Derka]

Headline startled me for a second there. Putin's ballsy but if it was a dude leaking Russian state secrets, you can bet your ass he'd want him back pronto.

[Lebowsky]

He's meeting Ecuadorian diplomats in Moscow. He's asking Ecuador for asylum.

[StocktonFan]

isn't it Switzerland that doesnt extradite? someone needs to tell him asap, much better quality of living.

[gigantes]

guess he's far too explosive for either china or russia to try squirreling away.

assuming china has sufficient leverage in HK, it does seem like they're playing with fire letting him walk. their banking system is *extremely* fragile from what i've read, and i'm not sure they really want to destabilise their #1 trading partner in any way, shape or form. *shrug*

thank god i don't follow politics.

[ace23]

So that's who this guy is. Been seeing his face everywhere lately.

[Done_And_Done]

edit: apparently iceland is also a conceivable destination, they aren't so friendly with the US after the financial meltdown left them in ruins tho they haven't committed to granting asylum. an icelandish business man supposedly had a jet ready to take Snowden straight there from the mainland before he took off to russia

Im hearing much the same. It wouldn't be the first time Iceland harboured an American refugee either {Bobby FIscher etc}

[Blue&Orange]

I don't get why he needs to be on the run, governments work for the people, they are people's employees, the fact they become this private club for half of dozen people, that act like they own what they have and create this obscure agencies that respond to no one, and people not only are ok with it, but label traitor when someone expose their fascist plans it's mind boggling, i guess as long there's fried chicken...

[brantonli]

guess he's far too explosive for either china or russia to try squirreling away.

assuming china has sufficient leverage in HK, it does seem like they're playing with fire letting him walk. their banking system is *extremely* fragile from what i've read, and i'm not sure they really want to destabilise their #1 trading partner in any way, shape or form. *shrug*

thank god i don't follow politics.


Their banking system doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the US anyway, and what is the US going to do in terms of trade, cut off their own citizen's goods and services? Anyway, in this regard, it should be largely HK's government calling the shots, rather than central.

[Jailblazers7]

Their banking system doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the US anyway, and what is the US going to do in terms of trade, cut off their own citizen's goods and services? Anyway, in this regard, it should be largely HK's government calling the shots, rather than central.

Yeah, the US doesn't really have any leverage in that situation economically. The shit happening with the Shibor is really interesting tho for the banking system in China. It certainly brings a lot of China's economic problems to light that the US press likes to ignore.

[gigantes]

Their banking system doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the US anyway, and what is the US going to do in terms of trade, cut off their own citizen's goods and services? Anyway, in this regard, it should be largely HK's government calling the shots, rather than central.
no no, ships passing in the night on that thought.

i simply meant that the way markets and economies impact each other so greatly these days, i would think no major player should want any significant destabilisation in any economy anywhere in the world, but china must be particularly sensitive right now. they should want as much stability and status quo as possible.

if snowden continues to cause problems for the US, who knows what the full fallout of that would be? i could easily see it impacting US markets, at the least. trade wouldn't directly be an issue, although if the dollar slumped, say, that could actually help the china banks with their liquidity problem as i understand it. so i guess it could sort of swing either way, but in any case should be a very calculated move if they have their heads on straight.

of course i don't actually know if any of this holds water unless someone who sees where i'm coming from can respond.

[kNicKz]

I don't get why he needs to be on the run, governments work for the people, they are people's employees, the fact they become this private club for half of dozen people, that act like they own what they have and create this obscure agencies that respond to no one, and people not only are ok with it, but label traitor when someone expose their fascist plans it's mind boggling, i guess as long there's fried chicken...

^^ this **** the government

[falc39]

Remember that women's soccer finals against that Japan team that went through some horrible natural disasters? I was rooting for USA, obviously. It's like watching the Mighty ducks 2 and rooting for Iceland. I hate that feeling. We are the bad guys in this situation...

[StocktonFan]

I don't get why he needs to be on the run, governments work for the people, they are people's employees, the fact they become this private club for half of dozen people, that act like they own what they have and create this obscure agencies that respond to no one, and people not only are ok with it, but label traitor when someone expose their fascist plans it's mind boggling, i guess as long there's fried chicken...

:roll:

[LJJ]

Snowden now "underground" as he failed to show up for his booked Moscow-Havana flight.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/24/edward-snowden-booked-on-plane-from-moscow-to-havana-live-coverage


Not boarding a plane that has to move through US territory is probably a good move. I doubt the US would do anything, but better safe than sorry. If he has the support of some foreign goverment he should be able to do better than a public Aeroflot flight.

I'm not sure about Snowden now associating himself with Wikileaks though. I'm sure he appreciates the legal and financial help, but Assange has been steadily hacking away at Wikileaks' credibility.

[MavsSuperFan]

Whatever happens from here I am grateful to him for exposing this government program of spying on us.

[Nanners]

but Assange has been steadily hacking away at Wikileaks' credibility.

the mainstream media has been slowly hacking away at wikileaks credibility.

[LJJ]

the mainstream media has been slowly hacking away at wikileaks credibility.

True, but Assange isn't too shy about providing them with ammunition. He either needs to go ahead and face those flimsy rape charges, or distance himself from Wikileaks.

[Nanners]

True, but Assange isn't too shy about providing them with ammunition. He either needs to go ahead and face those flimsy rape charges, or distance himself from Wikileaks.

disagree. those "flimsy rape charges" are simply intended to get him out in the open so he can be captured by swedish/uk officials and extradited to the US. i think he should stay inside the ecuador embassy and keep doing what he is doing.

[miller-time]

disagree. those "flimsy rape charges" are simply intended to get him out in the open so he can be captured by swedish/uk officials and extradited to the US. i think he should stay inside the ecuador embassy and keep doing what he is doing.

I'm pretty sure he said he would face those charges if he was assured he wouldn't be extradited.

[bagelred]

I don't get why he needs to be on the run, governments work for the people, they are people's employees, the fact they become this private club for half of dozen people, that act like they own what they have and create this obscure agencies that respond to no one, and people not only are ok with it, but label traitor when someone expose their fascist plans it's mind boggling, i guess as long there's fried chicken...

Did you say fried chicken? Dude, I am starving!!!...pass that shit over. :cheers:

Mmmmmmmm........delcious!!!....I didn't read the rest of your post....probably nothing important.







But seriously, it is mindblowing someone who should be labeled a hero, is considered a traitor.

[Nanners]

But seriously, it is mindblowing someone who should be labeled a hero, is considered a traitor.

When Cheney leaked Valarie Plames identity, that was just as much an act of espionage as the Snowden leak. It is public knowledge that Cheney is guilty of espionage, but he will never be charged for it (or war crimes, or any of the other shit he got away with).

The most mind boggling irony in the universe occured when Cheney called Snowden a traitor the other day. The reality is that Cheney and his merry band of neocons are probably the biggest traitors our country has ever witnessed.

[LJJ]

disagree. those "flimsy rape charges" are simply intended to get him out in the open so he can be captured by swedish/uk officials and extradited to the US. i think he should stay inside the ecuador embassy and keep doing what he is doing.

I'm pretty sure he said he would face those charges if he was assured he wouldn't be extradited.

Please, he knows the Swedish government cannot legally promise him immunity to extradition. First of all that would run counter to the principle of trias politica, secondly and more importantly: how can you promise someone immunity before you know what the alledged crime is?

The entire premise is false. It would be against European and Swedish law to extradite Assange to the US for anything related to Wikileaks. Assange's assertion is that if the USA puts on the pressure the UK and Sweden will simply ignore their laws and extradite him anyway, yet the only reason he isn't in custody right now is because the UK is following their laws.

If the UK or Sweden were willing to ignore their laws to placate the US, why didn't they simply extradite him when he was in the UK's custody? They could have send him on a plane right then and there, instead they released him on bail. Why don't they just come and pick him up at the Ecuadorian embassy? Sure, that would be against certain Vienna Convetions, but Assange's entire argument is based around the fact that Sweden and the UK would be willing to break laws and conventions to extradite him to the US. Or if Assange says he'll only come if they guarantee they won't extradite him, why not guarantee and ship him out anyway? Sweden would have no problem throwing their human rights laws out of the window, but lying is where they draw the line?

It's essentially a conspiracy theory. And even if there was truth to the conspiracy theory, it's still hurting Wikileaks' reputation and credibility right now.

[Nanners]

Please, he knows the Swedish government cannot legally promise him immunity to extradition. First of all that would run counter to the principle of trias politica, secondly and more importantly: how can you promise someone immunity before you know what the alledged crime is?

The entire premise is false. It would be against European and Swedish law to extradite Assange to the US for anything related to Wikileaks. Assange's assertion is that if the USA puts on the pressure the UK and Sweden will simply ignore their laws and extradite him anyway, yet the only reason he isn't in custody right now is because the UK is following their laws.


There is an absolutely enormous difference between UK officials arresting and extraditing Assange while he is walking down a public street, and arresting and extraditing him while he is hiding inside a foreign countries embassy.

The fact that the UK is currently "following their laws" (following international laws really) by respecting the sovereign territory of Ecuador cannot be used as evidence that they will continue to follow their laws by not extraditing Assange when he ventures out into the open.

Why didnt they extradite him when he was in UK custody earlier? I dont know, but I do know that the fact they did not extradite him earlier does not preclude them from extraditing him in the future.

[Brunch@Five]

interesting article on cnn.com:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/25/opinion/snowden-us-humilation/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

excerpts:


Like too many American politicians, Kerry seems to believe "the law" is what the White House counsel and U.S. Justice Department deem it to be on any given day, and that this made-in-America "law" applies inexorably to every country and every corner of the world.
Wrong, John. It's like invading somebody else's country without a U.N. Security Council resolution, or entering a home without a warrant. Not advisable, unless you relish hand-to-hand combat and endless sarcasm.

Russia says it feels "threatened" by U.S. criticism. This is as close as Sergei Lavrov, Moscow's dour foreign minister, has ever got to making a joke. If Putin and pals can stiff Obama on Syria and Iran, they can certainly "lift" a tale-teller and endure a cyber-tiff or two. These are tears of laughter, not pain

L'affaire Snowden has provided a glorious field day for all those "surrender monkey Commie pinko crypto-Marxist long-haired G8-loathing eco-friendly global-warming anti-free market anti-capitalist anti-McDonald's (anti-stereotype)" anti-Americans who just love to hate the "Land of the Free."
It's surprising how many of them there are these days.
Perhaps it has something to do with Guantanamo. For sure, the Beijing Politburo has no problem with detaining people indefinitely without charge. After all, they've been doing it for years. But it comes hard from a global superpower that is constantly lecturing China and everybody else about the inviolability of human rights.
Perhaps it's a Bradley Manning thing. There's a lot of sympathy out there for the pint-sized soldier who dared to share the State Department's incredibly tedious cables, then got treated worse than a mass murderer.

Extra-judicial assassination, drones, killer robots, extraordinary rendition, black ops, wet ops, psy-ops, silly ops... The world is a bit tired of all this American posturing, grandstanding, and self-serving banditry.
So now it's cyber-ops, but wholly unofficial, courtesy Mr E. Snowden. It would hard to accept it is real, if you didn't suspect it was virtual. Rather than decry it, many applaud it.
The White House is furious at the non-cooperation it has received. But has it occurred to them that maybe not just the Russians and the Chinese, but those soft, liberal Europeans and all the other neutrals also don't like the idea of being spied on by an out-of-control transnational agency beyond the reach of the law, any law, anywhere?
Obama and Kerry can talk about security until they lose signal. Right now, the rest of the world is talking sovereignty, privacy and individual rights. And enjoying the moment when the big guy takes a fall.

some heavy US-bashing :hammerhead:

[Legend of Josh]

guess he's far too explosive for either china or russia to try squirreling away.

assuming china has sufficient leverage in HK, it does seem like they're playing with fire letting him walk. their banking system is *extremely* fragile from what i've read, and i'm not sure they really want to destabilise their #1 trading partner in any way, shape or form. *shrug*

thank god i don't follow politics.

LOL, do you know how many millionaires and even billionaires greatly, even desperately depend on China's cooperation with the US to thrive in the manner in which they currently do? We need China more than they need us, not the other way around.

[DCL]

the united states was once a great country.

too bad our kids and grand kids will never experience that feeling.

[rufuspaul]

Now would be the time for Snowden to hop a flight, what with all the attention on the Supreme Court, but I doubt he's going anywhere anytime soon. He's in a transit terminal (supposedly) and his passport has been revoked. So he has to wait for any country that wants to take him to provide the appropriate paperwork. If you think our government works slowly...

[Take Your Lumps]

the united states was once a great country.

too bad our kids and grand kids will never experience that feeling.

I think they will, and it will grow into something even better. They're just going to have to be the ones to pick up the pieces when the house of cards that is our "economy" really comes tumbling down.

[LJJ]

The net around Snowden is closing a bit:

Correa says helping Snowden was a mistake and Ecuador won't grant him asylum:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/ecuador-rafael-correa-snowden-mistake

Putin says Snowden won't get asylum in Russia if he doesn't stop leaking: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23135734

Snowden issued a statement (although it looks to be ghostwritten by Wikileaks):
http://wikileaks.org/Statement-from-Edward-Snowden-in.html?snow

[Rolando]

Snowden is going to have a nervous breakdown at some point. The pressure on him must be immense. I wonder how he is living in the airport, where his money is coming from and so forth.

[Nanners]

Has there been any visual confirmation that snowden is actually in moscow? As far as I know, he has not given any interviews and has not even been photographed since arriving in Russia. Remember when all those reporters jumped on that plane to Cuba that Snowden was supposedly flying on.... did any of those reporters make it back to Russia yet?

Despite what Putin might be saying, I am starting to think that Snowden was never in Russia. My guess is that either the entire Russia thing is a rouse created by Snowden to draw attention away from his actual travel plans, or that the US govt already captured snowden and they are the originators of this Russia rumor.

[Lebowsky]

Snowden is going to have a nervous breakdown at some point. The pressure on him must be immense. I wonder how he is living in the airport, where his money is coming from and so forth.
He used to have a 6 figure salary, so he should have a decent amount saved up. Furthermore, he's probably getting financial help from Wikileaks.

[LJJ]

Has there been any visual confirmation that snowden is actually in moscow? As far as I know, he has not given any interviews and has not even been photographed since arriving in Russia. Remember when all those reporters jumped on that plane to Cuba that Snowden was supposedly flying on.... did any of those reporters make it back to Russia yet?

Despite what Putin might be saying, I am starting to think that Snowden was never in Russia. My guess is that either the entire Russia thing is a rouse created by Snowden to draw attention away from his actual travel plans, or that the US govt already captured snowden and they are the originators of this Russia rumor.

Eh, Snowden flew from HK to Moscow and is now held at the local airport hotel in Russian custody. He hasn't appeared in public, but I can't see a reason why Russia would allow him to do that while he is in their custody and his situation remains unclear.

Too many parties involved for this entire Snowden in Russia thing to be a ruse.

[rufuspaul]

Eh, Snowden flew from HK to Moscow and is now held at the local airport hotel in Russian custody. He hasn't appeared in public, but I can't see a reason why Russia would allow him to do that while he is in their custody and his situation remains unclear.

Too many parties involved for this entire Snowden in Russia thing to be a ruse.


It has to end soon. How much Russian room service can any sane human take?

[Nanners]

Eh, Snowden flew from HK to Moscow and is now held at the local airport hotel in Russian custody. He hasn't appeared in public, but I can't see a reason why Russia would allow him to do that while he is in their custody and his situation remains unclear.

Too many parties involved for this entire Snowden in Russia thing to be a ruse.

Snowden allegedly flew from HK to Moscow. There are no photographs of Snowden boarding the plane in HK, no photos of him on the plane in transit, and no photos of him de-planing in Moscow. Also, he has not done a single interview or any sort of public appearance whatsoever since arriving in Russia. You dont think that is a little strange?

We are living in the smartphone era, there are more than a billion people on this planet have cameras in their pocket at this moment, yet as far as I can tell the last time anybody saw photographic evidence of Snowden was when he was being interviewed in a HK hotel room 2 weeks ago. Seems bizzare to me considering how many people are looking for this guy.

The fact that many parties are involved with this is not mutually exclusive from the possibility that this is all a ruse.

[andgar923]

Am I the only one that thinks Eric from True Blood looks like him?

http://truebloodfansource.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tumblr_llzjwaYZvI1qc5buuo1_1280.png

[LJJ]

Snowden allegedly flew from HK to Moscow. There are no photographs of Snowden boarding the plane in HK, no photos of him on the plane in transit, and no photos of him de-planing in Moscow. You dont think that is a little strange?

We are living in the smartphone era, there are more than a billion people on this planet have cameras in their pocket at this moment, yet as far as I can tell the last time anybody saw photographic evidence of Snowden was when he was being interviewed in a HK hotel room 2 weeks ago. Seems quite strange to me considering how many people are looking for this guy.

Also, the fact that many parties are involved with this is not mutually exclusive from the possibility that this is a ruse.

I don't think it's strange at all. Airports can be some of the most controlled, secure places in the world when they have to be.

This guy is not necessarily out there flying coach, sitting in the back of the plane. He's not necessarily entering the airport through the main entrance walking around looking for his gate, stopping to buy some Toblerone. He's arriving at, moving through and leaving from these airports through non-public channels. He's one of the last guys on the plane and the first off the plane. The only real opportunity for anyone to photograph him is either the crew or one of the limited number of business class travelers. With, in this case, the FSB waiting on the other side.

[Nanners]

I don't think it's strange at all. Airports can be some of the most controlled, secure places in the world when they have to be.

This guy is not necessarily out there flying coach, sitting in the back of the plane. He's not necessarily entering the airport through the main entrance walking around looking for his gate, stopping to buy some Toblerone. He's arriving at, moving through and leaving from these airports through non-public channels. He's one of the last guys on the plane and the first off the plane. The only real opportunity for anyone to photograph him is either the crew or one of the limited number of business class travelers. With, in this case, the FSB waiting on the other side.

So Snowden is avoiding the public and reporters by moving through airports through "non-public channels"? Why are airports allowing Snowden to do this? Also, source please.

So the people in business class dont have smart phones? Reporters dont fly business class?

[LJJ]

So Snowden is avoiding the public and reporters by moving through airports through "non-public channels"? Why are airports allowing Snowden to do this? Also, source please.

So the people in business class dont have smart phones? Reporters dont fly business class?

He was given emergency travel documents from Ecuador to travel in the first place, you think that type of stuff happens at the regular booth at the airport? And there actual was a ton of news coverage of a massive FSB and governmental presence waiting for Snowden's arrival in Moscow, so obviously he didn't go through the regular channels there.

People in business class have smart phones, but if you think a handful of people in a random Aeroflot business class section are standing in line to take photos of Snowden you need a dose of reality. Most of the people there either don't care, don't even know the story or know better than to meddle in Russian state affairs.

You want to believe the conspiracy a bit too bad. Asking for me to show proof this isn't a conspiracy?! Why the hell would you think China, Russia and Wikileaks would be working together so merily? Sounds a bit insane to me.

[Nanners]

He was given emergency travel documents from Ecuador to travel in the first place, you think that type of stuff happens at the regular booth at the airport? And there actual was a ton of news coverage of a massive FSB and governmental presence waiting for Snowden's arrival in Moscow, so obviously he didn't go through the regular channels there.

People in business class have smart phones, but if you think a handful of people in a random Aeroflot business class section are standing in line to take photos of Snowden you need a dose of reality. Most of the people there either don't care, don't even know the story or know better than to meddle in Russian state affairs.

You want to believe the conspiracy a bit too bad. Asking for me to show proof this isn't a conspiracy?! Why the hell would you think China, Russia and Wikileaks would be working together so merily? Sounds a bit insane to me.

China, Russia and Wikileaks do not need to be "merily working together" in order for Snowden to be somewhere other than Moscow right now.

Show me one single photograph of Snowden on his plane ride or inside Russia, or any actual evidence other than "the media says hes inside Russia", and I will happily shut my mouth about this conspiracy. Prove me wrong.

[LJJ]

China, Russia and Wikileaks do not need to be "merily working together" in order for Snowden to be somewhere other than Moscow right now.

Show me one single photograph of Snowden on his plane ride or inside Russia, or any actual evidence other than "the media says hes there", and I will happily shut my mouth about this conspiracy.

The HK and Russian governments say he's there, as well as Wikileaks. None of them is the media.

[Rasheed1]

Its funny to me how intense the manhunt is for this guy.. Revoked his passport, Pulling planes out of the sky...

Seems you are a bigger criminal in the government's eyes if you happen to snitch and tell their secrets to the public, then if you are a real criminal.

Obama Admin isnt looking like "change we can believe in" right now... all the various scandals, this NSA thing, NDAA, force feeding prisoners in Guantanimo (prisoners who should be freed by now)

Looking more like the sequel to the Bush years...

[Nanners]

The HK and Russian governments say he's there, as well as Wikileaks. None of them is the media.

Yeah, because Chinese and Russian govt officials are completely trustworthy. Wikileaks is completely trustworthy too, they would never peddle a lie in order to protect Snowden.

The fact of the matter is that there is no physical evidence available to the public proving that snowden ever left HK.

A russian official said he is there? Russian officials say a lot of things...

[LJJ]

yeah because Chinese and Russian govt officials are completely trustworthy.

the fact of the matter is there is no physical evidence available to the public proving that snowden ever left HK.

You base this on absolutely nothing other than that you haven't seen a picture. There are dozens of direct sources and hundreds of indirect sources documenting that Snowden is in Moscow, and literally zero evidence that he isn't. Russia and China and Wikileaks are working together meticulously because......?

This is where your little theory belongs: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

[rufuspaul]

Its funny to me how intense the manhunt is for this guy.. Revoked his passport, Pulling planes out of the sky...

Seems you are a bigger criminal in the government's eyes if you happen to snitch and tell their secrets to the public, then if you are a real criminal.

Obama Admin isnt looking like "change we can believe in" right now... all the various scandals, this NSA thing, NDAA, force feeding prisoners in Guantanimo (prisoners who should be freed by now)

Looking more like the sequel to the Bush years...


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[Nanners]

You base this on absolutely nothing other than that you haven't seen a picture. There are dozens of direct sources and hundreds of indirect sources documenting that Snowden is in Moscow, and literally zero evidence that he isn't. Russia and China and Wikileaks are working together meticulously because......?

This is where your little theory belongs: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

I base this theory on the fact that NOBODY has seen any physical proof. Literally 100% of the "evidence" that Snowden is currently in Russia is second/third hand word of mouth information.

How about you shut your pie hole on how improbable you think my theory is, and post one bit of evidence that can actually poke a hole in it. Hopefully I dont have to remind you that a quote from a govt official or news report is not evidence.

[daily]

Didn't a CNN corespondent say they saw Snowden on the flight from HK to Moscow?

[LJJ]

I base this theory on the fact that NOBODY has seen any physical proof. Literally 100% of the "evidence" that Snowden is currently in Russia is second/third hand word of mouth information.

How about you shut your pie hole on how improbable you think my theory is, and post one bit of evidence that can actually poke a hole in it. Hopefully I dont have to remind you that a quote from a govt official or news report is not evidence.

If the only proof you accept is "physical proof" in the form of a photograph or video than no such proof has been released.

Of course everything in "the news", any statement from literally anybody involved wether it's government related, independent organisations, journalists, independent companies, independent eye witnesses, all corroboration one another perfectly, all of that is "circumstantial" evidence. You are a clown.

[Nanners]

If the only proof you accept is "physical proof" in the form of a photograph or video than no such proof has been released.

Of course everything in "the news", any statement from literally anybody involved wether it's government related, independent organisations, journalists, independent companies, independent eye witnesses, all corroboration one another, all of that is "circumstantial" evidence. You are a clown.

The only "proof" that Snowden is in Moscow is a bunch of quotes from Putin. The fact that these Putin quotes have been endlessly repeated on CNN does not make them magically true.

Go ahead and spend all day talking about how you think my theory is absurd. Until you are able to actually prove me wrong you can go fvck yourself, simpleton.

[LJJ]

The only "proof" that Snowden is in Moscow is a bunch of quotes from Putin. The fact that these Putin quotes have been endlessly repeated on CNN does not make them magically true.

You can talk all day about how you think my theory is improbable. Until you are able to prove me wrong you can go fvck yourself, simpleton.

And what exactly happens when you are proven wrong? :rolleyes:

[Nanners]

And what exactly happens when you are proven wrong? :rolleyes:

you dont read well do you



Show me one single photograph of Snowden on his plane ride or inside Russia, or any actual evidence other than "the media says hes inside Russia", and I will happily shut my mouth about this conspiracy.

[LJJ]

you dont read well do you

You already backtracked on that quote.

"or any actual evidence other than "the media says hes inside Russia"

Official statements from Russia, or Hong Kong, or Aeroflot, or Wikileaks are a google search away. None of whom are the media. Plenty of sources besides the media have confirmed Snowden is in Russia. But suddenly it became "oh no, not just the media, governments and wikileaks aren't trustworthy either!"

[Jello]

Nanners is so dumb.:facepalm

[Nanners]

You already backtracked on that quote.

"or any actual evidence other than "the media says hes inside Russia"


The fvck are you talking about I "backtracked"? Read my first post on this topic.



Despite what Putin might be saying, I am starting to think that Snowden was never in Russia. My guess is that either the entire Russia thing is a rouse created by Snowden to draw attention away from his actual travel plans, or that the US govt already captured snowden and they are the originators of this Russia rumor.



Official statements from Russia, or Hong Kong, or Aeroflot, or Wikileaks are a google search away. None of whom are the media. Plenty of sources besides the media have confirmed Snowden is in Russia. But suddenly it became "oh no, not just the media, governments and wikileaks aren't trustworthy either!"

"official statements" =\= evidence

[Rasheed1]

Nanners goes hard :oldlol:

I have no idea where Snowden is in reality.. I assume he is in Russia or on a plane somewhere, but I dont totally discount Nanners theory. Alot of people have been saying different things every day, and Im not too inclined to take any of these guy's word for anything...

The lies and deception is the reason for this fiasco to begin with.. we'll see in due time what the truth of all this is..

Until then, I wouldnt mock or discount anybody's suspicions about what is truly going on

[Jello]

The fvck are you talking about I "backtracked"? Read my first post on this topic.





"official statements" =\= evidence
A rouse created by snowden huh? :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[Nanners]

A rouse created by snowden huh? :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

my bad

*ruse

[Rasheed1]

According to the media and all these official reports, he was supposedly on a plane to Cuba not too long ago... How'd that turn out?


most importantly, the true story isnt about where Snowden is.. The true story is: what should be the consequence for the government systematically destroying our 4th amendment rights (and trying to destroy the 1st amendment as well)

I think it is a bigger story that Clapper lied directly to Congress, and yet there are no perjury charges pending..:confusedshrug: WTF??

If I lie to congress, do I get to simply write a letter to Diane Feinstein apologizing and everything is all good? I doubt it..

[LJJ]

The fvck are you talking about I "backtracked"? Read my first post on this topic.





"official statements" =\= evidence

How is a multitude of sources, all independent from another saying they were directly involved with putting Snowden on a plane to Moscow not evidence? You are backtracking all over the place here, shitting all over yourself.

[Nanners]

According to the media and all these official reports, he was supposedly on a plane to Cuba not too long ago... How'd that turn out?


most importantly, the true story isnt about where Snowden is.. The true story is: what should be the consequence for the government systematically destroying our 4th amendment rights (and trying to destroy the 1st amendment as well)

I think it is a bigger story that Clapper lied directly to Congress, and yet there are no perjury charges pending..:confusedshrug: WTF??

If I lie to congress, do I get to simply write a letter to Diane Feinstein apologizing and everything is all good? I doubt it..

These are all excellent points.

Ultimately, the location of Snowden does not matter, and discussing his location is distracting us from the real issues at hand.

[Nanners]

How is a multitude of sources, all independent from another saying they were directly involved with putting Snowden on a plane to Moscow not evidence? You are backtracking all over the place here, shitting all over yourself.

are you really asking me how multiple sources saying things independently does not equal evidence?

[LJJ]

Hey Nanners, your tinfoil hat status has just been confirmed. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/12/edward-snowden-to-meet-amnesty-and-human-rights-watch-at-moscow-airport-live-coverag)

:roll:

[Take Your Lumps]

His statement today:

[QUOTE]Hello. My name is Ed Snowden. A little over one month ago, I had family, a home in paradise, and I lived in great comfort. I also had the capability without any warrant to search for, seize, and read your communications. Anyone

[nightprowler10]

What have we become...?

[miller-time]

What have we become...?

Become? Has anything really changed? The past is as sordid as the present man, same shi, different day.

[highwhey]

What's he up to these days?