The Clippers are stupid

[SpecialQue]

Doc Rivers is NOT worth that draft pick. I can see the Clips getting burned on this one later...they always seem to miss out on amazing players due to making idiotic decisions with their picks.

[2013 Lakers]

Doc Rivers alone, no. But I'm guessing their plan is to get Garnett next.

Also if hiring Doc is a key piece to re-signing Chris Paul, that has value too.

[longtime lurker]

Doc Rivers alone, no. But I'm guessing their plan is to get Garnett next.

Also if hiring Doc is a key piece to re-signing Chris Paul, that has value too.

Apparently they can't trade for Garnett now because the league is blocking it. Anyways who cares about Doc Rivers I want to know where Rondo's gonna land.

[Bandito]

Garnett has a trade clause, so if he doesn't want to go he doesn't have too. Or am I wrong?

[G-train]

When a player forces you to hire a coach for $21m and an unprotected pick, yes you are stupid. Especially when said player has not re-signed. Don't say he will re-sign now either - things change quickly.

[Darius]

Yeah a Top 5 coach for some (likely) end of the first round scrub is a terrible trade. :oldlol:

Clips needed this.

They need to show all the players and personnel in the league they can bring in one of the most highly respected coaches in the league (and highest paid) to lead their franchise.

OP doesn't understand business or basketball.

[outbreak]

League sources say stern will block any move for garnett now as they will view it as trying to do 2 deals to avoid the league rules of players not being included in a coach deal.

[buddha]

League sources say stern will block any move for garnett now as they will view it as trying to do 2 deals to avoid the league rules of players not being included in a coach deal.

That's pretty jewish.

[qrich]

All depends on if Paul stays and what moves follow, but I do agree Rivers is overhyped.

[COnDEMnED]

League sources say stern will block any move for garnett now as they will view it as trying to do 2 deals to avoid the league rules of players not being included in a coach deal.
this.. no garnett for the clippers this year.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Yeah a Top 5 coach for some (likely) end of the first round scrub is a terrible trade. :oldlol:

Clips needed this.

They need to show all the players and personnel in the league they can bring in one of the most highly respected coaches in the league (and highest paid) to lead their franchise.

OP doesn't understand business or basketball.


:facepalm


Terrible post.

Rivers wasn't so "Top 5" before he had three HOFers still at the end of their prime years. I seem to recall a couple years when his Celtics were in the basement and participating in the league's annual "tank-a-thon".

Coaches are an overrated element on most team's. A team that has the ABILITY to win it all may get a boost over the hump from good coaching. But you still have to have the pieces to legitimately get there anyway. The Clippers do not have that. They are not a championship team with Doc Rivers, with Greg Popovich, with Red Aurbach, with Pat Summit, with Eric Musselman.

The most important thing is players. A number 1 pick, regardless of the ODDS of it turning out to be a really useful player, is still valuable because of that possibility. ESPECIALLY in the new CBA where salary caps and free agent movement will be limited. Getting a good player on a rookie deal in the draft and having his bird rights is very important, provided you know how to draft.

The Clippers should have gave up nothing. The Celtics were GOING to let Doc walk. He clearly didn't want to be there, and they knew it. He would have been willing to let them buy him out for virtually nothing, knowing the Clips would pay him that money. Boston was going to save the money either way, but they shirked the Clippers for a first round pick. This is why Danny Ainge is Danny Ainge, and... whoever runs the Clippers... is whoever runs the Clippers. (I know his actual name, the point is he's nobody)

[Sarcastic]

League sources say stern will block any move for garnett now as they will view it as trying to do 2 deals to avoid the league rules of players not being included in a coach deal.


If they don't get Garnett, then what's the point of doing this? There are a ton of good coaches that don't cost a draft pick to get.

[COnDEMnED]

That's pretty jewish.
At least he listed the rules as a reason why he's going to block any Garnett trade. How hilarious would it be if he just said, "No Garnett to Clippers trade, Basketball Reasons" and walked out of the room.

[COnDEMnED]

If they don't get Garnett, then what's the point of doing this? There are a ton of good coaches that don't cost a draft pick to get.
Point blank, to make CP3 happy enough to sign on the dotted line. Will it be enough since really he wanted Garnett? I don't know. For sure we know CP3 wont get exactly what he wants, Stern has already made that clear.

[2013 Lakers]

Garnett has a trade clause, so if he doesn't want to go he doesn't have too. Or am I wrong?

According to Woj, KG had to waive his no-trade clause for some reason.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

If the league blocks the garnett trade, that's twice now that Paul got shafted by Stern. :oldlol:

Also I don't understand how they can rationalize a blocking of this trade. It's two separate deals technically. How else was this suppose to happen? Garnett will still be traded for Clipper players, so how does that equate to Doc being traded for players? ....

[OldSkoolball#52]

Point blank, to make CP3 happy enough to sign on the dotted line. Will it be enough since really he wanted Garnett? I don't know. For sure we know CP3 wont get exactly what he wants, Stern has already made that clear.


Well, Paul did get a coach who fits the description of what he demands: African American.

I hope he appreciates how good he's got it! White folks don't get to publicly demand coaches of a specific race. Any one who did would be tared and feathered and ran out of the league. But apparently if your skin is beyond a certain threshold of melanin, it's permissable. White liberals literally view you as handicapped, limited, inferior, sympathetic figures etc. and get their rocks off by "letting you win" a few.

If I was a black dude I would hate that. Being implicitly exempt from certain standards of public behavior and expectation, just because a bunch of white people feel 'sorry' for me about my skin color. But, so it goes..

[Meticode]

Garnett has a trade clause, so if he doesn't want to go he doesn't have too. Or am I wrong?
It doesn't really matter. The league has a rule in place since the last bargaining agreement that you cannot have trades involving players/coaches at the same time. The league will block it.

[SourGrapes]

Well, Paul did get a coach who fits the description of what he demands: African American.

I hope he appreciates how good he's got it! White folks don't get to publicly demand coaches of a specific race. Any one who did would be tared and feathered and ran out of the league. But apparently if your skin is beyond a certain threshold of melanin, it's permissable. White liberals literally view you as handicapped, limited, inferior, sympathetic figures etc. and get their rocks off by "letting you win" a few.

If I was a black dude I would hate that. Being implicitly exempt from certain standards of public behavior and expectation, just because a bunch of white people feel 'sorry' for me about my skin color. But, so it goes..

Yikes

[oh the horror]

Well, Paul did get a coach who fits the description of what he demands: African American.

I hope he appreciates how good he's got it! White folks don't get to publicly demand coaches of a specific race. Any one who did would be tared and feathered and ran out of the league. But apparently if your skin is beyond a certain threshold of melanin, it's permissable. White liberals literally view you as handicapped, limited, inferior, sympathetic figures etc. and get their rocks off by "letting you win" a few.

If I was a black dude I would hate that. Being implicitly exempt from certain standards of public behavior and expectation, just because a bunch of white people feel 'sorry' for me about my skin color. But, so it goes..



You'd better back peddle fast dude.

[OldSkoolball#52]

You'd better back peddle fast dude.


Hell no.


It's a well known fact that overzealous white liberals basically "tier" people on how inferior or in need of special treatment they should feel. Then they give them proportionate leeway to do or say things they would not tolerate from those who are "higher" on the scale of expectation.

A wealthy, straight, christian male basically can make no public comment other than "I love everyone" without generating massive backlash and labels of bigotry.

But if Chris Paul, for instance, says "I want my coach to be black"... it's no big deal. Democrats who like to arbitrarily grade everyone on a subjective PC scale, deem Paul as not really being able to offend anyone, because he's black. It's like saying nobody takes his comments seriously, because he's black. But if he were white, they could do damage. So it's not allowed.

Hey, I'm just tellin ya. Liberals hate when "America" polices "the world" but they absolutely love when the government polices its people (at least in the ways they prefer).

Don't shoot the messenger.

[SpecialQue]

Well, Paul did get a coach who fits the description of what he demands: African American.

I hope he appreciates how good he's got it! White folks don't get to publicly demand coaches of a specific race. Any one who did would be tared and feathered and ran out of the league. But apparently if your skin is beyond a certain threshold of melanin, it's permissable. White liberals literally view you as handicapped, limited, inferior, sympathetic figures etc. and get their rocks off by "letting you win" a few.

If I was a black dude I would hate that. Being implicitly exempt from certain standards of public behavior and expectation, just because a bunch of white people feel 'sorry' for me about my skin color. But, so it goes..

http://replygif.net/i/568.gif

[Sarcastic]

If the league blocks the garnett trade, that's twice now that Paul got shafted by Stern. :oldlol:

Also I don't understand how they can rationalize a blocking of this trade. It's two separate deals technically. How else was this suppose to happen? Garnett will still be traded for Clipper players, so how does that equate to Doc being traded for players? ....


Which the NBA forbids. You are not allowed to make a trade contingent on another separate trade later on. Goes against the CBA.

[b0bab0i]

Which the NBA forbids. You are not allowed to make a trade contingent on another separate trade later on. Goes against the CBA.
So Stern judges? Does this mean Clippers and Celtics can never make a trade ever again? :confusedshrug:

[COnDEMnED]

So Stern judges? Does this mean Clippers and Celtics can never make a trade ever again? :confusedshrug:
Not involving Garnett this year. Maybe they could get away with a Paul Pierce trade this year, but I would think Adam Silver will follow through with what his mentor has decided on. No Garnett to the Clippers this year.

Basketball Reasons

[Fiasco]

Which the NBA forbids. You are not allowed to make a trade contingent on another separate trade later on. Goes against the CBA.

If there's nothing in the paperwork that says the trades are contingent on each other, then it should be allowed.

[Sarcastic]

If there's nothing in the paperwork that says the trades are contingent on each other, then it should be allowed.


It's been all over the media. Prove that they are not. You can't have side deals.

[Fiasco]

It's been all over the media. Prove that they are not. You can't have side deals.

You don't prove that something doesn't exist... you prove it does. LOL

[kshutts1]

It's been all over the media. Prove that they are not. You can't have side deals.

One deal being "contingent" on another means that... If KG doesn't go the Clips in a future deal, Doc, and the first round pick, are returned to their original owners. AKA the initial deal falls through, because the second deal (upon which the first deal was contingent) fell through.

So... by virtue of the first trade being completed, it is not contingent upon another trade.

[qrich]

It's been all over the media. Prove that they are not. You can't have side deals.

Is the burden of proof not on the accuser?

The media has made numerous reports that could easily be proven false as well.

And what if the Clippers and, say, Indiana, also agree to a Eric Bledsoe/Caron Butler for Danny Granger/G. Green/#23 deal and make it a 3 way such as:

Bos Out: KG
Bos In: DeAndre Jordan, #23

Ind Out: Granger, Green, #23, #53, Cash Considerations to buy two seconds
Ind In: Bledsoe, Butler, #25

LAC Out: Jordan, Butler, Bledsoe, #25
LAC In: KG, Granger, #53, Cash Considerations


Where is the contingency here?

[bdreason]

The real question should be, why are trade talks being leaked all over ESPN? The only people who should know about a potential deal are the 2 team owners, the 2 team GM's, Doc Rivers, and maybe KG (because of the no-trade clause). So which one of those 5-6 people leaked the info to the media? And why?


As a Warriors fan, I'm fine with the trade. Clippers giving away 1st rnd draft picks and young players for KG and Doc Rivers? Do Clippers fans really think Doc and KG make the Clipps contenders? Maybe a prime KG, but I think people are overestimating how much he has left in the tank.

[Clutch]

So league doesn't allow a KG to the Clippers trade ?

Stern screwing CP3 once again :roll: :roll: :roll:

[SpurrDurr]

Gotta love how Stern is always c0ckblocking CP3.

Serves that b1tch right.

[fiddy]

So league doesn't allow a KG to the Clippers trade ?

Stern screwing CP3 once again :roll: :roll: :roll:
Source?

[b0bab0i]

The real question should be, why are trade talks being leaked all over ESPN? The only people who should know about a potential deal are the 2 team owners, the 2 team GM's, Doc Rivers, and maybe KG (because of the no-trade clause). So which one of those 5-6 people leaked the info to the media? And why?


As a Warriors fan, I'm fine with the trade. Clippers giving away 1st rnd draft picks and young players for KG and Doc Rivers? Do Clippers fans really think Doc and KG make the Clipps contenders? Maybe a prime KG, but I think people are overestimating how much he has left in the tank.
You guys fvcked us for offering DJ such a massive contract that we had to match.:roll: :roll: :roll:
He isn't developing fast enough for the amount he's being paid in clippers fans eyes. $11 Million and sitting on the bench for 4th quarters.

We improve greatly with a better coach and player in Doc & KG compared to Vinny & DJ.

[Clutch]

Source?
League and teams sources also confirmed that for now, any deal involving Garnett and the Clippers is on hold in light of commissioner David Stern's objections to the appearance that the KG deal (for DeAndre Jordan) and Rivers were related.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9415256/los-angeles-clippers-agree-principle-doc-rivers-deal-sources

[icewill36]

I think the move is also about changing the culture and perception that the ownership won't do what they need to do to win. They are in L.A., they should be a free agent destination just as much as the lakers. They want players to want to come there and know they want to win at all costs.

[francesco totti]

there are like 5000 great coaches in world, some names we never heard off either

coaches can go as far as their players can take them. some nobody like spoelstra just won 2 rings. its utterly stupid to give away draft pick for rivers

[All Net]

Doc Rivers alone, no. But I'm guessing their plan is to get Garnett next.

Also if hiring Doc is a key piece to re-signing Chris Paul, that has value too.

They can't though.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Is the burden of proof not on the accuser?

The media has made numerous reports that could easily be proven false as well.

And what if the Clippers and, say, Indiana, also agree to a Eric Bledsoe/Caron Butler for Danny Granger/G. Green/#23 deal and make it a 3 way such as:

Bos Out: KG
Bos In: DeAndre Jordan, #23

Ind Out: Granger, Green, #23, #53, Cash Considerations to buy two seconds
Ind In: Bledsoe, Butler, #25

LAC Out: Jordan, Butler, Bledsoe, #25
LAC In: KG, Granger, #53, Cash Considerations


Where is the contingency here?

3 team trades are the way to go here - because the Celtics and Clippers are both receiving something from Indiana it's obviously not just a LA-Boston trade. Imo the Celts sending something to Indiana (future 2nd maybe) would be ideal to try and prove its not linked to Doc.

[Sarcastic]

You don't prove that something doesn't exist... you prove it does. LOL


It's proven it exists. There are stories about it for weeks.

[G-train]

Stern could gather a mountain of evidence and statements indicating Garnett and Doc deals are related. Including direct admissions from staff.

[PickernRoller]

There is mediocrity and then there is success and then there is a 1st round draft pick.

Yes, Rivers is worth it. Considering how bad these draft picks are turning out.....

[bagelred]

If Doc Rivers is going to be the coach next 5 years or so, and that's the guy they really want, and convinces Chris Paul to stay, and makes Clippers are more attractive free agency destination....then its easily worth some non lottery first rounder. People overrate these mid round draft picks so much....as long as its not a potential lottery pick, then its fine......

[D-Rose]

Wow, really? It's ONE draft pick. It'd be one in the mid to late twenties anyway. What are the chances of picks in that range even becoming starters? Seriously? Doc Rivers is a huge acquisition and will maximize that team's talent. Not to mention the Clippers won't be taken as a joke with him in charge.

[daily]

It's proven it exists. There are stories about it for weeks.

Besides being reported they already have told the league about it in a phone call last week.

The problem is it was part of the original deal the NBA blocked. If they do it now it's just finding a way around what the NBA already told them they couldn't do.

Moral of the story for NBA teams, read all of the CBA so the league doesn't have to tell you what's in it and don't talk to the media.
The league literally had to tell two NBA team front offices of something that's outlined in the CBA and somebody in one of these front offices leaked a story that should have been kept quiet until the deal was done.

[qrich]

3 team trades are the way to go here - because the Celtics and Clippers are both receiving something from Indiana it's obviously not just a LA-Boston trade. Imo the Celts sending something to Indiana (future 2nd maybe) would be ideal to try and prove its not linked to Doc.

Basically. It isn't dead for the Clippers to try to acquire Garnett, just more difficult. Another possible scenario:

Bos Out: KG, 2015 2nd
Bos In: DJ, #25

Wash Out: Ariza, 2nd
Wash In: Butler, 2015 Bos 2nd, 2014 & 2016 LA 2nd

LA Out: Butler, DJ, #25, 2014 & 2016 2nd
LA In: KG, Ariza, Wash 2nd

Could work just as well. It was rumored that Clips were the ones who turned down a Butler/Ariza swap back in February, so they just add that in now.

Numerous plausible scenarios.

[COnDEMnED]

Basically. It isn't dead for the Clippers to try to acquire Garnett, just more difficult. Another possible scenario:

Bos Out: KG, 2015 2nd
Bos In: DJ, #25

Wash Out: Ariza, 2nd
Wash In: Butler, 2015 Bos 2nd, 2014 & 2016 LA 2nd

LA Out: Butler, DJ, #25, 2014 & 2016 2nd
LA In: KG, Ariza, Wash 2nd

Could work just as well. It was rumored that Clips were the ones who turned down a Butler/Ariza swap back in February, so they just add that in now.

Numerous plausible scenarios.
You really think David Stern wouldn't be insulted with a three team deal involving exactly the same players to exactly the same city as the trade he flushed, being KG to Clippers and DJ to Boston? You really think he doesn't clearly already know what the plan is? Would you not fear MORE backlash from someone you're trying to trick when its clear as day to everyone who even remotely follows basketball what the backup plan is? If you were going to insult the man, at least send DJ to the third team in the trade right, don't make it so obvious, right? :eek:

[qrich]

You really think David Stern wouldn't be insulted with a three team deal involving exactly the same players to exactly the same city as the trade he flushed, being KG to Clippers and DJ to Boston? You really think he doesn't clearly already know what the plan is? Would you not fear MORE backlash from someone you're trying to trick when its clear as day to everyone who even remotely follows basketball what the backup plan is? If you were going to insult the man, at least send DJ to the third team in the trade right, don't make it so obvious, right? :eek:

If the third team is sending/receiving assets from both the Clippers & Celtics, I don't see why not. But sure, DJ to a third team, how about:

Bos Out: KG, 2015 & 2016 2nd
Bos In: Marcin Gortat, Suns 2nd

Phx Out: Gortat, Dudley, 2nd
Phx In: Jordan, #25

LA Out: Jordan, G. Hill Contract, W. Green, #25
LA In: Garnett, Dudley, Phx 2nd

[COnDEMnED]

If the third team is sending/receiving assets from both the Clippers & Celtics, I don't see why not. But sure, DJ to a third team, how about:

Bos Out: KG, 2015 & 2016 2nd
Bos In: Marcin Gortat, Suns 2nd

Phx Out: Gortat, Dudley, 2nd
Phx In: Jordan, #25

LA Out: Jordan, G. Hill Contract, W. Green, #25
LA In: Garnett, Dudley, Phx 2nd
I think David could swallow this one much easier than the last one. I mean the dude is a powerhouse lawyer, if we as fans can see the back door tricks the Clippers could use to get what they want, I'm sure an intelligent person like David is well aware of it too. He doesn't seem like someone you would really want to push buttons with, even though he is retiring, I'm sure he can still do damage. You don't want to be the first team Adam Silver gets the chance to make an example of.

[9512]

The Clippers are stupid

They are regressing back to their mean, which has historically been league bottom feeders.

[Droid101]

At least he listed the rules as a reason why he's going to block any Garnett trade. How hilarious would it be if he just said, "No Garnett to Clippers trade, Basketball Reasons" and walked out of the room.
Funny that getting a coach and an over the hill player is "colluding" but colluding to sign two free agents to form the current Miami team is fine?

Wtf is this shit?

[Bandito]

Funny that getting a coach and an over the hill player is "colluding" but colluding to sign two free agents to form the current Miami team is fine?

Wtf is this shit?
Actually Stern is still butthurt about what the Heat did, main reason the did whatever they did with the CBA...

[SpecialQue]

OK, so getting Doc possibly means:

CP3 temporarily stops being a bitch and agrees to re-sign with the Clippers.
Doc helps change the culture of the team and gets people to take them more seriously than they were when Del Negro was just yelling "PLAY HARD!" at the team during crunch time.
The Clippers finally become an attractive destination for free agents, since they're starting to shake off the "Clippers are cheap bastards" reputation.

I might be wrong, then. The Clippers aren't stupid. Overreaction on my part because I think Doc's overrated.

[COnDEMnED]

OK, so getting Doc possibly means:

CP3 temporarily stops being a bitch and agrees to re-sign with the Clippers.
Doc helps change the culture of the team and gets people to take them more seriously than they were when Del Negro was just yelling "PLAY HARD!" at the team during crunch time.
The Clippers finally become an attractive destination for free agents, since they're starting to shake off the "Clippers are cheap bastards" reputation.

I might be wrong, then. The Clippers aren't stupid. Overreaction on my part because I think Doc's overrated.
You're not wrong in thinking that Doc is being overrated, but he's still better than Negro. In my gut I believe if KG or Pierce do someday end up on the Clippers, it will be a mistake in CP3's judgment, and the team will be unsuccessful.

[Fiasco]

It's proven it exists. There are stories about it for weeks.

Speculation isn't evidence lol

And the deal being written about was KG and Doc being moved at the same time

The fact that Rivers has signed on as the Clippers coach in a single compensation transaction means Stern has zero grounds to deny another trade between the Celtics and Clippers.

If the paperwork doesn't show any contingency the NBPA has grounds for grievance if KG does in fact want to play here.