Kobe gets so much s**t for his Finals fg%, but Lebron gets a pass?

[theoneneo]

Kobe's Finals Stats... 24.7 PPG 5.2 RPG 5.0 APG 1.75 SPG 0.89 BPG 323-784 FG 41.1% 213-248 85.8% FT

Lebron... 23.4ppg on 44%

Yes, at first glance a stan would take that 44% and say Lebron is better, but a real nicca would look a little closer and realize Lebron's fg% drops by a significantly larger margin come Nba Finals time, including this year where his fg% dip by 12% in the finals(Gawddd dayum nicca):lol . Yes Kobe's fg% dips from about 45% to 42% but Kobe's a jump shooter unlike Lebron who pounds his way to the basket and attempts some of the most god awful shots I've ever seen. Prior to game 7 this nicca Lebron was shooting something like under 30% from outside the paint, :biggums: C'mon guys :no: lets ease on the praise, I'm glad Lebron got it done, but I think the finals proved he's honestly not that much better than his peers. And lets kill all these MJ comparisons. Till next time niccas.

[alexd]

Kobe's Finals Stats... 24.7 PPG 5.2 RPG 5.0 APG 1.75 SPG 0.89 BPG 323-784 FG 41.1% 213-248 85.8% FT

Lebron... 23.4ppg on 44%

Yes, at first glance a stan would take that 44% and say Lebron is better, but a real nicca would look a little closer and realize Lebron's fg% drops by a significantly larger margin come Nba Finals time, including this year where his fg% dip by 12% in the finals(Gawddd dayum nicca):lol . Yes Kobe's fg% dips from about 45% to 42% but Kobe's a jump shooter unlike Lebron who pounds his way to the basket and attempts some of the most god awful shots I've ever seen. Prior to game 7 this nicca Lebron was shooting something like under 30% from outside the paint, :biggums: C'mon guys :no: lets ease on the praise, I'm glad Lebron got it done, but I think the finals proved he's honestly not that much better than his peers. And lets kill all these MJ comparisons. Till next time niccas.

:facepalm you also forgot lebron in the finals : 10.9 rpg 7apg 2.3 spg
its not even close.plus lebron is not a scorer he s an all around player unlike kobe who is considered scorer(kobe is NOT a jump shooter.he s a scorer.its not the same)..a scorer that gets 1.1 ppg with less efficiency
and less rebounds,assists,steals..actually everything else you can think of..stats do all the talking

[selrahc]

44 > 41

[Electric Slide]

look at his Finals FG% in 2012

[Segatti]

FG is overrated

[Rose'sACL]

:facepalm you also forgot lebron in the finals : 10.9 rpg 7apg 2.3 spg
its not even close.plus lebron is not a scorer he s an all around player unlike kobe who is considered scorer(kobe is NOT a jump shooter.he s a scorer.its not the same)..a scorer that gets 1.1 ppg with less efficiency
and less rebounds,assists,steals..actually everything else you can think of..stats do all the talking
This. Why do people forget this?

[theoneneo]

:facepalm you also forgot lebron in the finals : 10.9 rpg 7apg 2.3 spg
its not even close.plus lebron is not a scorer he s an all around player unlike kobe who is considered scorer(kobe is NOT a jump shooter.he s a scorer.its not the same)..a scorer that gets 1.1 ppg with less efficiency
and less rebounds,assists,steals..actually everything else you can think of..stats do all the talking

Nicca, we talking about fg%... Kobe Av 7apg in 09... and 8rpg in 10 finals. Lol @ Lebron isn't a scorer, so what the fuq is he then?

[Rose'sACL]

FG is overrated
No, it is not but you have to understand what it means. If 2 players are scoring same amount of points and are their team's main scoring threat then FG% or rather eFG% is a great way to judge them.

[theoneneo]

44 > 41

i'm not defending either, two of my favorite players of all time. But 44% while bulldozing to the rim isn't much better than 41% while taking contested jumpshots and whatnot.

[Rose'sACL]

Nicca, we talking about fg%... Kobe Av 7apg in 09... and 8rpg in 10 finals. Lol @ Lebron isn't a scorer, so what the fuq is he then?
Stop using the word "nicca".
also, great that you pulled that stat but forgot that lebron averaged 7APG, 10.9RPG with 25.3PPG on 44.7% shooting these finals while making same amount of 3s.

[Rose'sACL]

i'm not defending either, two of my favorite players of all time. But 44% while bulldozing to the rim isn't much better than 41% while taking contested jumpshots and whatnot.
first, scoring is scoring and second, lebron attempted and made same amount of 3s per game as kobe did in 09. also, lebron played against pacers, bulls and spurs and all 3 protected rim the most so i have no idea how getting to the rim and finishing is any less harder. also, kobe got a lot more free throws than lebron did. so, either kobe went to the rim more or he got ref's help. Decide yourself you idiot.

[theoneneo]

Stop using the word "nicca".
also, great that you pulled that stat but forgot that lebron averaged 7APG, 10.9RPG with 25.3PPG on 44.7% shooting these finals while making same amount of 3s.

Again, we're talking about fg% not anything else. I'm not disputing anything else.

I find it funny that whenever people bring up the boston game 7 where Kobe shot 6/24 he gets shit for it, but when us Kobe "Stans" bring up the fact that he grabbed 15 rebounds that suddenly doesn't matter. But now you wanna talk about Lebrons 10rpg :rolleyes:

[tpols]

Lebrons FG dips more than Kobes in the Finals.. is what this fine gentleman is getting at.

And its 100% true

[theoneneo]

first, scoring is scoring and second, lebron attempted and made same amount of 3s per game as kobe did in 09. also, lebron played against pacers, bulls and spurs and all 3 protected rim the most so i have no idea how getting to the rim and finishing is any less harder.

Lol, they we're Literally leaving him wide open LITERALLY. They wanted him to hit those shots. Don't bring up the fact that he hit the same amount of threes. Orlando defended Kobe on the 3 point line unlike Lebron.

[Psycho]

Probably because there were more efficient players on the Lakers that Kobe was taking shots from.

Lebron was the most efficient player on his team, he was the best option and still wasn't chucking.

[Rose'sACL]

Again, we're talking about fg% not anything else. I'm not disputing anything else.

I find it funny that whenever people bring up the boston game 7 where Kobe shot 6/24 he gets shit for it, but when us Kobe "Stans" bring up the fact that he grabbed 15 rebounds that suddenly doesn't matter. But now you wanna talk about Lebrons 10rpg :rolleyes:
lebron grabbed 18 in a game. he also averaged more for the whole series. I don't think LeBron had a legendary finals this year but you are comparing it to kobe so i gave you the fact as compared to kobe.
Lebron in 2012 finals was legendary.

[theoneneo]

Lebrons FG dips more than Kobes in the Finals.. is what this fine gentleman is getting at.

And its 100% true

:applause: That's all I'm trying to say, all we hear all season long is how efficient Lebron is, then his fg% drops substantially come finals time. Why the double standard?

[Rose'sACL]

Lol, they we're Literally leaving him wide open LITERALLY. They wanted him to hit those shots. Don't bring up the fact that he hit the same amount of threes. Orlando defended Kobe on the 3 point line unlike Lebron.
So you are saying that teams are so afraid of lebron's ability to finish at the rim that he get open jumpers. This just proves that lebron makes the game easier for himself and his team more than kobe does.
Your line of thinking is like saying that a programmer who uses 2000 lines of code is better than a programmer who does the same thing by only writing 500 lines of code.

[alexd]

Nicca, we talking about fg%... Kobe Av 7apg in 09... and 8rpg in 10 finals. Lol @ Lebron isn't a scorer, so what the fuq is he then?

lebron is not a scorer.wtf do u even play basketball?was magic a scorer?no.just because some1 can score does not defy his playstyle.lebron above all is an all around player.he can score he can rebound he can play defense.he doesn t excel in any role but he s good at all of them.a rich man s andre iguodala.what exactly u don t understand?on the other hand kobe is a scorer.he s not as a good defender as you want him to be,he s not as good as playmaking u want him to be.but he can score in many ways either post drive shooting.i guess you ve never played basketball
at people are annoyed by bryant not only because he shoots too much but because he shoots idiotic shots.like fade aways fro the 3pt line even if he can t buy a basket.lebron won t make alot of shots when he s off.plus he takes much better shots.even at the finals most shots he took are uncontested.they were good shots its just that he missed them due to low morale and the fact that he s not that great shooter.but again they were GOOD shots.not ill advised fadeaways from the corner 3 with 2 people on you like kobe aka hero ball all the time bryant

[Segatti]

first, scoring is scoring and second, lebron attempted and made same amount of 3s per game as kobe did in 09. also, lebron played against pacers, bulls and spurs and all 3 protected rim the most so i have no idea how getting to the rim and finishing is any less harder. also, kobe got a lot more free throws than lebron did. so, either kobe went to the rim more or he got ref's help. Decide yourself you idiot.

This is one of the reasons why fg is overrated, people compare without any kind of context. It's like saying Lebron was so more effective in 2012 finals ignoring the fact that he faced much better defensive teams/coaches in 2011 and in 2013.

[KBryant24]

SA packed the paint. Lebron wasn't able to get the easy shots that he is used to. Give the guy credit for improving his midrange game, but 44% is no way a bad finals percentage.

[KyrieTheFuture]

When all you do is score you're supposed to do it well that's why Kobe gets flak

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When all you do is score you're supposed to do it well that's why Kobe gets flak

Why do people act like Kobe is Ben Gordon or something? :oldlol: He's an above average playmaker, and in his prime (MOST of those finals), an ELITE defender.

[DMAVS41]

I don't get this. Lebron has been and should be hammered for his low efficiency in the finals for his career so far. And it was the same this series in large part as well.

Obviously though...efficiency isn't quite as important for a player like Lebron because he's superior in pretty much every area of the game over Kobe other than shooting.

This is why I can't stand Kobe fans. Kobe shoots 6-24 and grabs 15 boards...and everyone goes nuts about how grabbing 15 boards was huge and how scoring isn't the only thing etc.

But then those same fans rail on Lebron...even when he plays a great all around game. I just don't get...that is actually the double standard.

I don't know anyone propping lebron for his efficiency in the finals...it wasn't good.

[7_cody]

I don't get this. Lebron has been and should be hammered for his low efficiency in the finals for his career so far. And it was the same this series in large part as well.

Obviously though...efficiency isn't quite as important for a player like Lebron because he's superior in pretty much every area of the game over Kobe other than shooting.

This is why I can't stand Kobe fans. Kobe shoots 6-24 and grabs 15 boards...and everyone goes nuts about how grabbing 15 boards was huge and how scoring isn't the only thing etc.

But then those same fans rail on Lebron...even when he plays a great all around game. I just don't get...that is actually the double standard.

I don't know anyone propping lebron for his efficiency in the finals...it wasn't good.

Not all Kobe fans say that, just some of the 13-year old ones that flood this site. I am sure that you don't consider yourself the same as all Dirk fans or Maverick fans.

I have no problem mentioning that Kobe, while he played good, was not on MJ-level in the 2010 Finals. In fact, I don't even consider his 2010 Finals to be among the best. We all know that he didn't put up the stats that we expected. At the very least, he did keep his defender honest and improve spacing for his team ;)

[Flash31]

Lol, they we're Literally leaving him wide open LITERALLY. They wanted him to hit those shots. Don't bring up the fact that he hit the same amount of threes. Orlando defended Kobe on the 3 point line unlike Lebron.


Seriously Really?

Your main argument is Lebrons jumpshots
were open so its not impressive
bc he was supposed to make them,
Wow the stupidity and ignorance on you.

Doesnt matter HOW you make your shots,open,contested,rim
whatever
you still made them.

Let me guess,to you clutch is considered shooting over two defenders 15ft plus
out and layups dont count or if youre open.

You probably hate shaq too,bc he only scored near the rim
so it doesnt count as impressive
unless its a jumpshot.

The sheer ignorance of your statement

You mustve hated Greens performance bc he was taking and making wide open 3s,thats what hes supposed to do right make them at a 60% clip having 18 ppg
right?

Logic and common sense you dont have

[Kiddlovesnets]

Yeah, comparing an all-around player to an almost pure scorer... Same reason why its a problem for a PG not to average 7-8+ apg but not for a SG or forward.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I don't get this. Lebron has been and should be hammered for his low efficiency in the finals for his career so far. And it was the same this series in large part as well.

Obviously though...efficiency isn't quite as important for a player like Lebron because he's superior in pretty much every area of the game over Kobe other than shooting.

This is why I can't stand Kobe fans. Kobe shoots 6-24 and grabs 15 boards...and everyone goes nuts about how grabbing 15 boards was huge and how scoring isn't the only thing etc.

But then those same fans rail on Lebron...even when he plays a great all around game. I just don't get...that is actually the double standard.

I don't know anyone propping lebron for his efficiency in the finals...it wasn't good.


The heats game plan and personnel makes it easy for lebron to grab almost all heat rebound, kobes 14 boards in the finals came out of pure hustle playing along with real bigs. Context is your friend, gotta stay in touch with him...

[StocktonFan]

Are we also comparing celtics defense to spurs defense this year? I mean for lebron it was open jumpshot after jumpshot

[Nash]

Lol, they we're Literally leaving him wide open LITERALLY. They wanted him to hit those shots. Don't bring up the fact that he hit the same amount of threes. Orlando defended Kobe on the 3 point line unlike Lebron.
and why do you think they left him open? Why do you think Orlando can afford to defend Kobe's shot? Because Lebron is a double threat and giving him the jump shot is way better than defending the J and see him just run past you to the paint.

[7_cody]

Seriously Really?

Your main argument is Lebrons jumpshots
were open so its not impressive
bc he was supposed to make them,
Wow the stupidity and ignorance on you.

Doesnt matter HOW you make your shots,open,contested,rim
whatever
you still made them.

Let me guess,to you clutch is considered shooting over two defenders 15ft plus
out and layups dont count or if youre open.

You probably hate shaq too,bc he only scored near the rim
so it doesnt count as impressive
unless its a jumpshot.

The sheer ignorance of your statement

You mustve hated Greens performance bc he was taking and making wide open 3s,thats what hes supposed to do right make them at a 60% clip having 18 ppg
right?

Logic and common sense you dont have

With all due respect you are ignorant in bball if you do not believe that a player should not take and knock down wide open jump shots. Pop would NEVER guard any other superstar wing player that way, just LeBron, and there is a reason why. LeBron failing to score at will with the defense he faced considering how they played him is actually a relevant and strong argument.

[theoneneo]

:lol These stans running scared talking bout he grabbed 10rpg, I'm talking bout his big drop in fg%. Why is fg% only brought up when it comes to Kobe? Lebron's is just as bad:confusedshrug: That's a fact. Explain him shooting 30% outside the paint? Explain this? That's horrible. lol.

[TheCorporation]

44> 41

You're welcome for your math lesson.

[7_cody]

44> 41

You're welcome for your math lesson.

When it is that close then context becomes even that more important.

[BlackVVaves]

Probably because there were more efficient players on the Lakers that Kobe was taking shots from.

Lebron was the most efficient player on his team, he was the best option and still wasn't chucking.

If starting games 3-14 and 3-11 isn't chucking, what's it called? Sucking?

[GrapeApe]

With all due respect you are ignorant in bball if you do not believe that a player should not take and knock down wide open jump shots. Pop would NEVER guard any other superstar wing player that way, just LeBron, and there is a reason why. LeBron failing to score at will with the defense he faced considering how they played him is actually a relevant and strong argument.

The Spurs were baiting him. They WANTED LeBron to fall in love with the jumper. The strategy wasn't about LeBron being a poor shooter, because he's been outstanding from the perimeter all year. It was the Spurs refusing to let him get to the rim at any cost. They were content with him taking and making jumpers in the hope that he would settle and play less aggressively. They defended Wade the exact same way. Both were able to knock down jumpers in game 7 and that ultimately won the game.

[7_cody]

The Spurs were baiting him. They WANTED LeBron to fall in love with the jumper. The strategy wasn't about LeBron being a poor shooter, because he's been outstanding from the perimeter all year. It was the Spurs refusing to let him get to the rim at any cost. They were content with him taking and making jumpers in the hope that he would settle and play less aggressively. They defended Wade the exact same way. Both were able to knock down jumpers in game 7 and that ultimately won the game.

That actually is a pretty clever excuse.

The truth is LeBron should fall in love with his jumpshot if they give him the open look all game long. He should fall in love with it, and he should make them. But he couldn't, until game 7. Dirk would have fallen in love with it. He would have set the Finals scoring record. So would Durant. So would many other superstar wing players.

You can still defend a player tight and prevent him from getting to the rim (no, you cannot do this to LeBron on single coverage - well, maybe Diaw can ;)-) That kind of defense is actually less humiliating to the superstar wing player.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Why do people act like Kobe is Ben Gordon or something? :oldlol: He's an above average playmaker, and in his prime (MOST of those finals), an ELITE defender.


I'm totally trolling I don't understand why anyone really cares about field goal percentage when you're winning.

[steve]

Are we also comparing celtics defense to spurs defense this year? I mean for lebron it was open jumpshot after jumpshot

They were leaving him the jump shot but making sure he wasn't able to get in the lane because even the best jump shooters in the league only make about 44% of their jump shots on average (and that's being generous, considering the average is closer to about 38%). Lebron could've just taken those all game and even if he had made them at a good clip, it doesn't really help the Heat at all and the Spurs were never going to guard it even he was making them at an insane clip because it never really maximized his points per possession nor does it get the rest of his team involved.

[7_cody]

They were leaving him the jump shot but making sure he wasn't able to get in the lane because even the best jump shooters in the league only make about 44% of their jump shots on average (and that's being generous, considering the average is closer to about 38%). Lebron could've just taken those all game and even if he had made them at a good clip, it doesn't really help the Heat at all and the Spurs were never going to guard it even he was making them at an insane clip because it never really maximized his points per possession nor does it get the rest of his team involved.

A team can still guard his jumpshot while preventing him from getting to the lane. The Spurs begged him to shoot. There is a big difference. They could have played him tight and shut down the lane from him.

You can't really do this to LeBron on single coverage, but with help defense and proper rotations it can be done. Teams do it to Kobe all the time. Do you really think that teams are giving Kobe the lane when the guard him tight? No, they are glued to him every second and the defense is rotated to stop Kobe from driving if he breaks down the initial defender.

[tmacattack33]

44 > 41

And the 44 includes Lebron's Cleveland series, in which he had no teammates to rely on (oh, and he was also 22 years old in it...but nobody ever gives Lebron a pass for being so young, because he was so amazing at a young age). Kobe had Shaq in 2004 yet still decided to chuck inefficiently.

[Indian guy]

LeBron failed to shoot at least 45% in only one NBA Finals. Kobe on the other hand has shot below 42% in 5 of his 7 NBA Finals. Sub-40% in 2 of them.

[Element]

Wait a second?

Kobe being defended at the three point line is a bad thing? LeBron being given open space on his jumpers isn't because of how much teams fear his drive but because his jumper plain sucks. Simple.

Kobe opens up the paint for guys like Gasol (whose most efficeint and productive years came alongside Kobe. And he's a known cherry picker "Gasoft"). He creates space in close, by drawing in defenses from EVERYWHERE not just the paint. LeBron lets opponents pack the paint, where, if you ever played basketball, you'd know it is easier to score from lol. Which is better for a team?

[aburre21]

delusional Kobe stans :lol




if they guard Kobe close, why doesn't he take it to the rim? Durant does it all the time. The threat of his jump shot has made his driving game deadly and he's explosive off the first step.

Kobe on the other hand is not a great driver to the rim, he's not as great at finishing at the rim as LeBron. That's a skill. If you dudes think it's so easy to drive and finish, how come you clowns can't do it? Why aren't you in the NBA? You ****s probably couldn't even drive and finish in High School :lol


You can say what you want about them giving Bron the jumper....but they gave him the jumper because they're afraid of his ability to penetrate and not only score but pass as well

[Nanners]

Lebrons FG dips more than Kobes in the Finals.. is what this fine gentleman is getting at.

And its 100% true

lebrons fg% dips a lot more than kobes in the finals yet he STILL shoots a better % than kobe. hilarious :oldlol:

[chosen_wun]

Lebrons FG dips more than Kobes in the Finals.. is what this fine gentleman is getting at.

And its 100% true
The difference is LeBron's FG comes back down to earth in the finalsl, while Kobe is just straight up terrible.

LeBron is going from 150 mph to 60. Kobe is going from 60 to parked.

[fpliii]

Both Kobe & LeBron have faced tough defenses in the Finals:

Kobe

00 IND -0.4%
01 PHI -1.4%
02 NJN -5.0%
04 DET -7.5% (-9.4% with Sheed, incl. playoffs)
08 BOS -8.2%
09 ORL -6.0%
10 BOS -3.6%

LeBron

07 SAS -6.3%
11 DAL -2.1%
12 OKC -1.4%
13 SAS -4.1%

The bolded are among the 25 best defenses in league history (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dE5jQnJyOG50ODNCZ0hpZFZpaGhnRW c&type=view&gid=3&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=NBA&sortcolid=16&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=25) (the 04 Pistons with Sheed rate as the 3rd best ever, after the 64 and 65 Celtics). You aren't going to put up the same numbers in the Finals against top defenses, so the criticism is unwarranted.

[jstern]

Perhaps because he shot terrible the first few games and then took over. He would have gotten more shit if it was the other way around, or consistent. Still bad for him, and will hurt him when being compared to Jordan.

[Flash31]

With all due respect you are ignorant in bball if you do not believe that a player should not take and knock down wide open jump shots. Pop would NEVER guard any other superstar wing player that way, just LeBron, and there is a reason why. LeBron failing to score at will with the defense he faced considering how they played him is actually a relevant and strong argument.


Im saying they SHOULD
take open shots rather than over doubles,contested
and going hero ball

But the hate he gets from Making
open shots and criticism
is mind boggling stupid,
peoplre discrediting him
bc hes open and making it is what I find funny

They left him open on jumpshots bc they feared him driving
and two A SHOT Make is a Shot made

I have never seen somebody besides LeBron
get this much hate for taking and making open jumpshots

its like to these haters he should not get open,not take the easy shot,and not
get layups
instead to them he should take the hardest shot possible,only make jumpshptd
but only when theyre contested and go hero
ball and thatll be impressive to them

which that logic is beyond ignorant

[ripthekik]

Yeap. Kobe never scored 8 points in his prime.
Looking at Lebron's 2007 stats, he also shot 25% :confusedshrug:
He actually shot like below 40% in the whole series and got swept.

His 2011?

Lebron's final performance is a joke.

[jrong]

LeBron failed to shoot at least 45% in only one NBA Finals. Kobe on the other hand has shot below 42% in 5 of his 7 NBA Finals. Sub-40% in 2 of them.

LeBron shot 36% against the Spurs in 07.

[Lebron23]

Both Kobe & LeBron have faced tough defenses in the Finals:

Kobe

00 IND -0.4%
01 PHI -1.4%
02 NJN -5.0%
04 DET -7.5% (-9.4% with Sheed, incl. playoffs)
08 BOS -8.2%
09 ORL -6.0%
10 BOS -3.6%

LeBron

07 SAS -6.3%
11 DAL -2.1%
12 OKC -1.4%
13 SAS -4.1%

The bolded are among the 25 best defenses in league history (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dE5jQnJyOG50ODNCZ0hpZFZpaGhnRW c&type=view&gid=3&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=NBA&sortcolid=16&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=25) (the 04 Pistons with Sheed rate as the 3rd best ever, after the 64 and 65 Celtics). You aren't going to put up the same numbers in the Finals against top defenses, so the criticism is unwarranted.

Best post in this thread. I think Lebron is going to put up his best finals stats this season.