how come Jordan never lost in the Finals?

[jzek]

Was he really that good or was his competition really not that good? He played in an era too in which true dominant centers played (Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Mourning, etc.) as well as dominant big men (Webber, Barkley, Kemp, Malone, etc.) and yet all these other teams still couldn't beat Jordan.

Also, bonus question - can you guys name another player who never lost in the Finals ***and*** was also the FMVP each time?

[TheReal Kendall]

His team scored more points

[Nuff Said]

Dirk?

[HomieWeMajor]

Nike gave his opponent free shoes.

-HomieWeMajor

[KG215]

Dirk?
Ummm...2006.

[Nuff Said]

Ummm...2006.

Damn how could I forget.

[Nuff Said]

Pippen?

[Electric Slide]

Because every time he made the finals his team was always a lot better than everyone else's.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Damn how could I forget.

Wtf? How do you have Wade as your avy and screw that up?

[Trollsmasher]

Because every time he made the finals his team was always a lot better than everyone else's.
This

He was basically a definition of a frontrunner

Never won a single series in which he was not a favourite

[Nuff Said]

Because every time he made the finals his team was always a lot better than everyone else's.

People act like Jordan made the finals every year of his career. He made the finals when he finally had a good team. A mixture of individual and team dominance. Jordan gets a lot but not all the credit.

[Rose'sACL]

Because bulls only made to the finals when they had the best squad in the NBA. Don't get mad that i just wrote that. Them being best was because jordan played for them but also because their team had all the right pieces to complement Jordan.

[Johnny Jones]

Pippen?
Wade?

[bdreason]

A combination of hard work, talent... and a little luck.

[irriducibili]

Moses.

[Sarcastic]

This

He was basically a definition of a frontrunner

Never won a single series in which he was not a favourite


1989. Chicago Bulls were the 6 seed and beat the 3 seed Cleveland Cavaliers.

[Psileas]

Willis Reed. And he had to face Wilt himself. And that's head to head competition.

[Glide2keva]

1989. Chicago Bulls were the 6 seed and beat the 3 seed Cleveland Cavaliers.
The stupid shit people say, right?

And what's with penalizing someone for being better than everyone else, or their team? The Bulls were mostly draft picks and timely trades in the first three peat, and more of the same with a couple of big free agent signings in the second three peat. But the core of the team was always draft picks.

[SamuraiSWISH]

GOAT gonna GOAT?

MJ's Bulls could out defend the best defensive team (New York) or out score the best offensive team (Phoenix)

Pick your poison. Plus, MJ refused to lose when the money was on the table on the biggest stage. That simple. It's called will.

[Kiddlovesnets]

'cause he had been by far the best player in the league since he entered his prime? Its not only that he never lost in NBA Finals, but that he only lost once in a playoffs series from 91-98, the one right after his comeback season, still feeling rusty after playing way too much baseball.

[tikay0]

How noobish can one man get, that he has to ask such deranged and idiotic questions?

[guy]

People call it weak competition, but the fact is that Jordan made his competition look weak. Its funny, cause in alot of ways, somehow the Bulls losing the 90s Cavs, Knicks, Pacers, or Jazz and having one or two less titles would probably make their dynasty look even more impressive in some people's eyes because it makes their competition look much better in their eyes.

[get these NETS]

once bulls beat pistons there was no way they would ever lose in playoffs with jordan pip and phil

it's like working out wit weight vest....and ankle weights....and then taking them to workout

[ivienthol]

Jazz were the favorites going into the finals in '98. Bulls were called too old and worn out after the Pacers series while the Jazz were well rested. And since they had experience against the Bulls the previous year people thought it was their time.

[InfiniteBaskets]

Moses.
Moses lost to Celtics and Bird in 1980.

I'm curious who this Finals MVP who never lost in the finals before is.

[Electric Slide]

Moses lost to Celtics and Bird in 1980.

I'm curious who this Finals MVP who never lost in the finals before is.
prol some guy in the 70s that played their once.

[tikay0]

People call it weak competition, but the fact is that Jordan made his competition look weak. Its funny, cause in alot of ways, somehow the Bulls losing the 90s Cavs, Knicks, Pacers, or Jazz and having one or two less titles would probably make their dynasty look even more impressive in some people's eyes because it makes their competition look much better in their eyes.

:biggums: No one calls it weak competition. It's almost universally recognized that he went through much tougher teams than today's players. :facepalm

[Sarcastic]

Moses lost to Celtics and Bird in 1980.

I'm curious who this Finals MVP who never lost in the finals before is.


It's already been posted. Willis Reed.

[sportjames23]

What kinda dumb shit is this?

He never lost because his teams were better and he was the best player in the game.

[sportjames23]

1989. Chicago Bulls were the 6 seed and beat the 3 seed Cleveland Cavaliers.


And the 2 seed Knicks.

[Rasheed1]

Robert Horry

[gengiskhan]

Was he really that good or was his competition really not that good? He played in an era too in which true dominant centers played (Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Mourning, etc.) as well as dominant big men (Webber, Barkley, Kemp, Malone, etc.) and yet all these other teams still couldn't beat Jordan.

Also, bonus question - can you guys name another player who never lost in the Finals ***and*** was also the FMVP each time?

Greatest compliment one can pay Michael Jeffery Jordan is

"He was always, I mean ALWAYS!..Better than the Hype created about him"

A reason why he came CLOSE to losing NBA finals but pulled it off by a single point.

example :1993 finals
example :1998 finals.

[InfiniteBaskets]

It's already been posted. Willis Reed.

That's kind of a trick question, especially the way phrased in the OP. Reed was on the Knicks in 1972 and the Knicks lost to the Lakers in the finals that year. Sure you can say Reed didn't play because he was injured, but he was on the team and thus he would have gotten a championship ring had they won.

His 1970 finals MVP is also one of the weaker ones. Reed gets injured in game 5 in the 2nd quarter while the series is tied 2-2. The Knicks afterwards are down by 18 points before rallying all the way back, without Reed to lead the series 3-2 with Walt Frazier scoring a team high 21 points.
Reed does not play at all in game 6. Then he goes on and plays a few minutes in game 7, more for a symbolic spirit-raising gesture than anything while Walt Frazier scores a game high 36 points to clinch the series in game 7. Finals MVP goes to Reed.

I didn't see the whole series live, but imo just looking into the story and box scores it seems like Frazier was more of an impact after the series was tied 2-2. Granted, Reed was a BEAST prior to his game 5 injury, but those weren't the games that won the title for New York. Imo it should've been a shared FMVP between Reed and Frazier.

[tikay0]

Greatest compliment one can pay Michael Jeffery Jordan is

"He was always, I mean ALWAYS!..Better than the Hype created about him"

A reason why he came CLOSE to losing NBA finals but pulled it off by a single point.

example :1993 finals
example :1998 finals.

I get your point, but neither of those were elimination games. :confusedshrug:

[gengiskhan]

I get your point, but neither of those were elimination games. :confusedshrug:

But

Game 6 ON THE ROAD is an ELIMINATION game 99% of the time for the visiting team.

Game 7 just becomes a formality.


Bulls lost either game 6s even by single pt. 1993 suns win the ring.

definitely 1998 Jazz win the ring.

[tmacattack33]

Biggest he was never on second place team. His Bulls were either outside the top 2, or they were the best team in the league.

[The Choken One]

He's the fhcking GOAT ( though I believe KAJ is better personally ), so of course Jordan is a god and has some godly stats.

[Soundwave]

They did almost lose in 1998, but Jordan basically just won that game six on will alone.

Because if there was a game 7 in that series, it would have been tough, I don't know if Pippen would be able to play, and even if he could his effectiveness would be limited.

[Soundwave]

Biggest he was never on second place team. His Bulls were either outside the top 2, or they were the best team in the league.

Well they were third best in '93, and they beat both of the teams ahead of them in the playoffs (New York and Phoenix), versus New York they came back from 0-2 at that. I remember a lot of people saying the Bulls were done for sure then.

[poido123]

This Tzek guy is coming accross as some type of Bulls fan. I never see him in Bulls forums and he seems to have a mancrush on Lebron.

I was confident that the Bulls fans on here don't make stupid threads like this, but I was wrong. :facepalm:

[3LiftHeatCurse]

This

He was basically a definition of a frontrunner

Never won a single series in which he was not a favourite

Bulls were underdogs in 1998. THey were an old team and Jazz were favorites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPYseUjOBAc

Listen to that MJ interview during the 98 finals.

Both the Interviewer Ahmad Rashad AND JOrdan both talk about how the Jazz were the heavy favorites, and everyone saw the Bulls as old and tired , and how the Jazz thought they would wipe the floor with the old bulls.

[Soundwave]

Bulls were underdogs in 1998. THey were an old team and Jazz were favorites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPYseUjOBAc

And the Bulls were coming off a grueling 7 game series against Indiana, whereas Utah was rested and had home court and won game 1 to boot.

A lot of people were picking Utah to win that series.

New York was also heavily favored in '93, especially when they went up 2-0. Most people said the Bulls were done.

Phoenix was favored by a lot of people in '93 also. Team of destiny nonsense.

A lot of people even felt like the Bulls could still be beaten by Orlando in '96.

[clutch18]

Because bulls only made to the finals when they had the best squad in the NBA. Don't get mad that i just wrote that. Them being best was because jordan played for them but also because their team had all the right pieces to complement Jordan.

Well put

[I<3NBA]

because when the times his team was weak, he didn't make it.

[LeBird]

Because whenever they weren't the best team in the league they lost before the finals.

[Legends66NBA7]

Because whenever they weren't the best team in the league they lost before the finals.

Were the Bulls the best team all year in 92-93 and 97-98 too ?

[KG215]

I don't understand why he bumped a thread where the last post was made 6 hours before his, just to post essentially the same ignorant comment as the previous poster.

[ThaRegul8r]

That's kind of a trick question, especially the way phrased in the OP. Reed was on the Knicks in 1972 and the Knicks lost to the Lakers in the finals that year. Sure you can say Reed didn't play because he was injured, but he was on the team and thus he would have gotten a championship ring had they won.

That's a bunch of crap. A player doesn't lose a series he never plays in. It's like when a certain player attributed to Duncan a playoff loss in 2000 when he never played a second in the postseason.

[greymatter]

He had the vastly superior team in 4 of 6 of those Finals and slightly better team in 1 (98 Jazz). The only opponent that was very evenly matched and possibly slightly better was the 93 Suns.

[LeBird]

Were the Bulls the best team all year in 92-93 and 97-98 too ?

Of course they were. What, you think because in 92-93 they were 3-5 games behind NY/PS in the regular season they weren't the best? The team that had won 2 titles prior shouldn't be regarded as the best?

And why weren't they the best in 97-98?

[greymatter]

All in all, Jordan should have easily won no less than 4 titles. Replay each of those series 1000 times over and he probably wins 5/6 about 75% of the time.

[Legends66NBA7]

That's a bunch of crap. A player doesn't lose a Finals he never plays in.

Yup.

It's like saying Tim Duncan lost in the first round of the 2000 playoffs. Or for a more recent example, Kobe Bryant losing in the first round of the 2013 playoffs.

[LeBird]

I don't understand why he bumped a thread where the last post was made 6 hours before his, just to post essentially the same ignorant comment as the previous poster.

Or worse, if you think a post is useless to then give it further attention by posting a non-statement like the above.

FYI, I don't care when a poster posted the last comment in a thread and I don't read all posts all the time before I post my opinion.

[greymatter]

Were the Bulls the best team all year in 92-93 and 97-98 too ?

Pip only played 44 games in 97-98 and the Bulls still won 62. Even though he didn't play well at all in the playoffs, true (non-Jazz/Bull) junkies of the game weren't seriously picking Utah over Chicago (despite the fact that the dumbass Vegas oddsmakers were).

[ai9]

brian cardinal has also never lost in the finals :bowdown:

[juju151111]

Of course they were. What, you think because in 92-93 they were 3-5 games behind NY/PS in the regular season they weren't the best? The team that had won 2 titles prior shouldn't be regarded as the best?

And why weren't they the best in 97-98?
Pip barly played and when he came back he played horrible in the playoffs in fact he was out of a finals game. Mj still led tat team to 62 wins even through himself was 35 years old with a crack knuckle.

[TonyMontana]

People call it weak competition, but the fact is that Jordan made his competition look weak. Its funny, cause in alot of ways, somehow the Bulls losing the 90s Cavs, Knicks, Pacers, or Jazz and having one or two less titles would probably make their dynasty look even more impressive in some people's eyes because it makes their competition look much better in their eyes.

Not really.

Its weak competition because it was weak.

The 80s were VERY strong. Teams were a lot better.

Even teams who are known for their 90s play like the Jazz were better in the 80s. Younger Malone, younger Stockton, 7'4 Mark Eaton who was averaging 4 BPG(the late 90s teams had Ostertag for comparisons sake), and Thurl Bailey guy(who was an extremely long defender and 20 PPG scorer). The best Jazz team of the Malone era was the 1988 Jazz, they took the 88 Lakers to 7 games in the semifinals, but because the league as a whole was better they didn't make the Finals either.

Jordan couldn't win until these teams broke down. The only 90s team that actually had comparable talent to the Bulls that they ever played was Shaqs Magic(who beat them in 95)

[Legends66NBA7]

Of course they were. What, you think because in 92-93 they were 3-5 games behind NY/PS in the regular season they weren't the best? The team that had won 2 titles prior shouldn't be regarded as the best?

And why weren't they the best in 97-98?

Off course a 2-time champion should be recognized as the best, at least as the preview of those seasons. All-year in 92-93 ? I don't think they were and weren't supposed to come back down 0-2 vs the Knicks. Took Jordan a masterful series vs the Suns after.

Like others have mentioned, they weren't supposed to win in 97-98. Pippen missed a big chunk of that season, his worst version of the title years... team was much older overall, team management breaking up pieces of the roster due to an on going feud with the players/coaches, etc. They weren't even supposed to be in the finals.

I believe a majority of the reason why those particular teams won is because of their experience factor, "will to win", and having the best player in the game.

[Legends66NBA7]

Pip only played 44 games in 97-98 and the Bulls still won 62. Even though he didn't play well at all in the playoffs, true (non-Jazz/Bull) junkies of the game weren't seriously picking Utah over Chicago (despite the fact that the dumbass Vegas oddsmakers were).

This is true too.

[ripthekik]

Not really.

Its weak competition because it was weak.

The 80s were VERY strong. Teams were a lot better.

Even teams who are known for their 90s play like the Jazz were better in the 80s. Younger Malone, younger Stockton, 7'4 Mark Eaton who was averaging 4 BPG(the late 90s teams had Ostertag for comparisons sake), and Thurl Bailey guy(who was an extremely long defender and 20 PPG scorer). The best Jazz team of the Malone era was the 1988 Jazz, they took the 88 Lakers to 7 games in the semifinals, but because the league as a whole was better they didn't make the Finals either.

Jordan couldn't win until these teams broke down. The only 90s team that actually had comparable talent to the Bulls that they ever played was Shaqs Magic(who beat them in 95)
Exact same thing for Current day Lebron :roll: :roll: :roll:

[prodigyjazz]

Some pretty obvious missed calls didn't help the jazz in those finals

[LeBird]

Pip barly played and when he came back he played horrible in the playoffs in fact he was out of a finals game. Mj still led tat team to 62 wins even through himself was 35 years old with a crack knuckle.

How does this prove that the Bulls weren't the best? 97-98 Pippen regular season is on par with 96-97 Pippen output-wise despite the fact that he missed half the season. During the playoffs Pippen's role was to concentrate on defense more as Jordan had lost a bit of his energy and that hurt his scoring numbers but he still facilitated well.

IIRC the Bulls that year purposely slowed down during the regular season to have one last hurrah in the playoffs.

[greymatter]

Jordan couldn't win until these teams broke down. The only 90s team that actually had comparable talent to the Bulls that they ever played was Shaqs Magic(who beat them in 95)

Shaq's Magic team lost Horace Grant in game 1 of the ECF to that 72 win Bulls team. The Magic simply had no shot after that since he was the heart/hustle of the Magic's defense even though he wasn't the most physically dominating defensive presence. Shaq was always more interested in focusing his energies on offense. It's no surprise that his best defensive season was his rookie year.

Talent wise, that Magic team had all the potential in the world. They just had one of the shittiest coaches in Brian Hill (think Mike Brown before there was a Mike Brown) who always played his starters too long (starting 5 averaged over 36mpg) and never bothered to develop a good bench rotation.

You'd think that a team with Shaq and Grant anchoring the paint would be an elite defensive team, but that wasn't the case. That Magic team was 12/29 in defensive rating. If it were Phil Jackson coaching that team, they'd have been the ones to win 70+ games that season.

[LeBird]

I believe a majority of the reason why those particular teams won is because of their experience factor, "will to win", and having the best player in the game.

And how is that not a factor in picking the best team? One which has more experience is better than another, even if the other team is performing better during the regular season.

If next season Golden State put up a 62 win season and Memphis puts up 60 with Miami putting up 57 who is going to say Miami still isn't the best team in the league?

[TonyMontana]

Shaq's Magic team lost Horace Grant in game 1 of the ECF to that 72 win Bulls team. The Magic simply had no shot after that since he was the heart/hustle of the Magic's defense even though he wasn't the most physically dominating defensive presence. Shaq was always more interested in focusing his energies on offense. It's no surprise that his best defensive season was his rookie year.

Talent wise, that Magic team had all the potential in the world. They just had one of the shittiest coaches in Brian Hill (think Mike Brown before there was a Mike Brown) who always played his starters too long (starting 5 averaged over 36mpg) and never bothered to develop a good bench rotation.

You'd think that a team with Shaq and Grant anchoring the paint would be an elite defensive team, but that wasn't the case. That Magic team was 12/29 in defensive rating. If it were Phil Jackson coaching that team, they'd have been the ones to win 70+ games that season.

agreed, people like to say Phil just rode stars to titles, but this guy was an amazing coach. None of his stars won without him except for Shaq who got 1 with Wade and Riley. 11 titles in 20 seasons in the modern era where there are 25+ teams. Amazing

Just look at what he did with Shaq in their first year together(2000). He turned Shaq into the monster people call Prime Shaq. NBA History would be completely different if Shaq had Phil for the entirety of his prime.

[juju151111]

How does this prove that the Bulls weren't the best? 97-98 Pippen regular season is on par with 96-97 Pippen output-wise despite the fact that he missed half the season. During the playoffs Pippen's role was to concentrate on defense more as Jordan had lost a bit of his energy and that hurt his scoring numbers but he still facilitated well.

IIRC the Bulls that year purposely slowed down during the regular season to have one last hurrah in the playoffs.
Gtfo the bulls didn't purposely do crap. Your just making stuff up. The 98 season was full with drama and injuires to starters and key role players. Pippen was asking for a trade and they were looking into shopping him. Mj was playing with a broken knuckle on top of everything. They started off the season rough because of lineup problems and drama within. :biggums: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/Mag15lastrunningofthebullspart1/chicago-bulls-coach-phil-jackson-recounts-historic-1998-season-part-1-espn-magazine-archive

[LeBird]

I didn't say they purposely did crap haha. I said they knew themselves that without Pippen it was going to be tough so they paced themselves to do better in the playoffs. But, they won 62 games anyway. Missing their 2nd best player for half the season yet they equalled Utah for the #1 record.

There was a lot of off-field stuff...but it doesn't mean they weren't the best team. Even Phil Jackson in his writing blog during the time wrote that after sweeping the Nets and only losing 1 game against Charlotte that people expected them to sweep the rest of the playoffs.

[cos88]

some people on this thread are idiots :facepalm

[juju151111]

Mj didn't wait till any teams broke down.Mj never got a team thats decent unti l the 90s. Like Larry bird said the only reason Mj didn't win earlier was the he didn't have a team. Give Give 87 Jordan his his 97 team and no wwy the same result happens. Those pistons teams wouldnt of been able to focus on only Mj if Mj had a more complete teqm. Pistons targeted young scottie pippen and made him their bitch for 3 years he couldn't take the beaten until he matured.

[Rose'sACL]

some people on this thread are idiots :facepalm
in*

[madmax]

This

He was basically a definition of a frontrunner

Never won a single series in which he was not a favourite

that is the most hilarious thing about this so called "GOAT" of basketball:lol
And haters call Lebron a frontrunner, when this fakkit was a true definition of manufactured all-time great, riding on the back of Pippen and Phil to them rings

[Sarcastic]

Lebron couldn't get past Boston till they got old and injured, and he joined forces with Wade and Bosh in order to finally get over that hump which still took 7 games. That's 10x worse than what Jordan faced, when he went up against up and coming teams from NY, Ind, Pho, as well as a super talented Portland team, another super talented Seattle team, and the Jazz with 2 legit hall of famers.

Lebron beat a super young OKC team last year, that was not ready for the moment, and a super old Spurs team.

[Legends66NBA7]

Lebron couldn't get past Boston till they got old and injured, and he joined forces with Wade and Bosh in order to finally get over that hump which still took 7 games.

2011 in 5 games.

[uber]

that is the most hilarious thing about this so called "GOAT" of basketball:lol
And haters call Lebron a frontrunner, when this fakkit was a true definition of manufactured all-time great, riding on the back of Pippen and Phil to them rings

:facepalm


1989. Chicago Bulls were the 6 seed and beat the 3 seed Cleveland Cavaliers.


And the 2 seed Knicks.

[Rose'sACL]

Lebron couldn't get past Boston till they got old and injured, and he joined forces with Wade and Bosh in order to finally get over that hump which still took 7 games. That's 10x worse than what Jordan faced, when he went up against up and coming teams from NY, Ind, Pho, as well as a super talented Portland team, another super talented Seattle team, and the Jazz with 2 legit hall of famers.

Lebron beat a super young OKC team last year, that was not ready for the moment, and a super old Spurs team.
that spurs team is younger than heat. That thunder team beat Spurs team which had not lost a single game till game 3 of WCF.
Why am i even wasting time ? you don't even know that heat beat celtics in 5 in 2011. If anyone got lucky with celtics getting injured, it was lakers in the finals.

[andgar923]

MJ never lost because he's MJ.

[dh144498]

This

He was basically a definition of a frontrunner

Never won a single series in which he was not a favourite

and Lebron the choker lost playoffs series while being the heavy favorite even after being up 2-1 with homecourt advantage.
:roll:

and even being taken to 7 game series by old and/or inexperienced teams who were predicted to get swept or backdoor swept.
:roll:

lebron james for you, everybody.
:bowdown:

[SilkkTheShocker]

and Lebron the choker lost playoffs series while being the heavy favorite even after being up 2-1 with homecourt advantage.
:roll:

and even being taken to 7 game series by old and/or inexperienced teams who were predicted to get swept or backdoor swept.
:roll:

lebron james for you, everybody.
:bowdown:

1. Kobe was swept the 2011 Mavs with HCA
2. Thunder weren't inexperienced. They were in the WCF the season before

[lilgodfather1]

He just lost in the first round instead.

[Bigsmoke]

by having his team win 4 games in each of the Finals he been in

[dh144498]

1. Kobe was swept the 2011 Mavs with HCA
2. Thunder weren't inexperienced. They were in the WCF the season before

what does this thread have to do with Kobe? I didn't mention Kobe at all. You paranoid unstable pos. :roll: Even if you mentioned Kobe, why does it matter? they never won a game, while Lebron the King was ahead 2-1 and choked away their series lead even with homecourt advantage. :roll: :roll: :roll:
:applause: :applause:

When did I mention the Thunder? I said being taken to 7 games by inexperienced/old teams: 2012 Celtics who were predicted to get backdoor swept, 2013 Pacers, etc.
:oldlol:

[guy]

:biggums: No one calls it weak competition. It's almost universally recognized that he went through much tougher teams than today's players. :facepalm

You're telling me you haven't noticed stupid posts like this?



Not really.

Its weak competition because it was weak.

The 80s were VERY strong. Teams were a lot better.

Even teams who are known for their 90s play like the Jazz were better in the 80s. Younger Malone, younger Stockton, 7'4 Mark Eaton who was averaging 4 BPG(the late 90s teams had Ostertag for comparisons sake), and Thurl Bailey guy(who was an extremely long defender and 20 PPG scorer). The best Jazz team of the Malone era was the 1988 Jazz, they took the 88 Lakers to 7 games in the semifinals, but because the league as a whole was better they didn't make the Finals either.

Jordan couldn't win until these teams broke down. The only 90s team that actually had comparable talent to the Bulls that they ever played was Shaqs Magic(who beat them in 95)

[Bigsmoke]

and even being taken to 7 game series by old and/or inexperienced teams who were predicted to get swept or backdoor swept. :roll:

:

nice try dumbass

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/MATW88/imagesCA7YLAA2_zpseb9f0cab.jpg (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/MATW88/media/imagesCA7YLAA2_zpseb9f0cab.jpg.html)

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/MATW88/NBA-Finals-2012-Vote-Results_zps2842e60d.jpg (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/MATW88/media/NBA-Finals-2012-Vote-Results_zps2842e60d.jpg.html)

http://www.nbacircle.com/nba-finals-vote-results-2012-okc-win-67-heat-win-33-nba-final-2012-votes-state-results.html

[dh144498]

nice try dumbass

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/MATW88/imagesCA7YLAA2_zpseb9f0cab.jpg (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/MATW88/media/imagesCA7YLAA2_zpseb9f0cab.jpg.html)

http://www.nbacircle.com/nba-finals-vote-results-2012-okc-win-67-heat-win-33-nba-final-2012-votes-state-results.html

"even being taken to 7 game series"
7
7
7

did Lebron's *** flood your brain? can't read? :lol

[Bigsmoke]

"even being taken to 7 game series"
7
7
7

did Lebron's *** flood your brain? can't read? :lol

i was looking at SilkkTheShocker thinking u was talking about the Thunder from last year.

as a team the Spurs aren't not even that old

http://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison

[sc19]

He played in a weak era. Jordan can't even get to the finals with Prime Bird and other elites holding the league hostage.

[dh144498]

i was looking at SilkkTheShocker thinking u was talking about the Thunder from last year.

as a team the Spurs aren't not even that old

http://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison

i was talking about the 2012 celtics and the 2013 pacers.

[Element]

Because he never faced Hakeem in the Finals, or lost before he even reached them

[JellyBean]

Jordan had great teammates who understood their roles within the team.

[TheMan]

Not really.

Its weak competition because it was weak.

The 80s were VERY strong. Teams were a lot better.

Even teams who are known for their 90s play like the Jazz were better in the 80s. Younger Malone, younger Stockton, 7'4 Mark Eaton who was averaging 4 BPG(the late 90s teams had Ostertag for comparisons sake), and Thurl Bailey guy(who was an extremely long defender and 20 PPG scorer). The best Jazz team of the Malone era was the 1988 Jazz, they took the 88 Lakers to 7 games in the semifinals, but because the league as a whole was better they didn't make the Finals either.

Jordan couldn't win until these teams broke down. The only 90s team that actually had comparable talent to the Bulls that they ever played was Shaqs Magic(who beat them in 95)

Well, LBJ had it easy this year too, weak era coupled with the fact that most of his competitionin the EC had injury problems (Bulls were a MASH, New York, Boston, Indiana missing it's best offensive player). Easiest path to the Finals and still it took 7 games to get past Indy.

Then in the Finals, old ass Spurs with a hobbled Parker should've beaten Miami if they could shoot FTs or grab a defensive rebound or if Allen hadn't bailed out LeBron.

Two can play this game, junior.

[dh144498]

Well, LBJ had it easy this year too, weak era coupled with the fact that most of his competitionin the EC had injury problems (Bulls were a MASH, New York, Boston, Indiana missing it's best offensive player). Easiest path to the Finals and still it took 7 games to get past Indy.

Then in the Finals, old ass Spurs with a hobbled Parker should've beaten Miami if they could shoot FTs or grab a defensive rebound or if Allen hadn't bailed out LeBron.

Two can play this game, junior.

:applause:

[KG215]

that is the most hilarious thing about this so called "GOAT" of basketball:lol
And haters call Lebron a frontrunner, when this fakkit was a true definition of manufactured all-time great, riding on the back of Pippen and Phil to them rings
:confusedshrug:

LeBron's lost multiple series with HCA and as the favorite. Wouldn't that be worse? Oh, and Jordan did win playoff series where he wasn't the favorite.

[TheMan]

:confusedshrug:

LeBron's mlost multiple series with HCA and as the favorite. Wouldn't the be worse? Oh, and Jordan did win playoff series where he wasn't the favorite.
Yes, it is worse but TonyMontana, MadMax, Trollsmasher etc will choose to ignore that.:oldlol:

[TonyMontana]

Well, LBJ had it easy this year too, weak era coupled with the fact that most of his competitionin the EC had injury problems (Bulls were a MASH, New York, Boston, Indiana missing it's best offensive player). Easiest path to the Finals and still it took 7 games to get past Indy.

Then in the Finals, old ass Spurs with a hobbled Parker should've beaten Miami if they could shoot FTs or grab a defensive rebound or if Allen hadn't bailed out LeBron.

Two can play this game, junior.

Always trying to turn the argument around on LeBron instead of explain why Jordan could only win in the 90s when all the other great teams declined?

:oldlol:

Sure we'll play your game.

LeBron has already won series where he was expected to lose.

See Bigsmokes image about the Thunder-Heat series. The Thunder had 3 superstars and were expected to run over the Heat.

The media was counting him out when the Heat were down 3-2 to the Celtics and LeBron responded with a 45 point 15 rebound game? Do I need to show you all of LeBrons stats in elimination games? I trust you've seen the data Pablo. They were counting them out vs IND last year when Bosh went down too. LBJ wasn't having that.

How about all of the kids on this site who already had their zippers down in Game 6 ready to celebrate a SA victory? Sorry bro, but LeBron had other things in mind.

And I'm just talking about Heat. He's done this shit with the shittty Cavs teams too(Pistons).

Jordans Bulls casts were WAY better than LeBrons Heat. The Heat have the biggest weakness any team could possibly have. Shitty interior play.

If you saw the Heat get a guy like Joakim Noah on their team then the Heat would indeed be comparable to a team like the Bulls who had no exploitable weaknesses on the court and the greatest coach in history at the helm.

As of now the Heat still have a glaring weakness that still leaves them vulnerable to other teams. This is a team that has gone and will go more adversity than Jordans teams ever did who simply beat teams because the roster is stacked and noone else in the league could compare.

[dh144498]

Always trying to turn the argument around on LeBron instead of explain why Jordan could only win in the 90s when all the other great teams declined?

:oldlol:

Sure we'll play your game.

LeBron has already won series where he was expected to lose.

See Bigsmokes image about the Thunder-Heat series. The Thunder had 3 superstars and were expected to run over the Heat.

The media was counting him out when the Heat were down 3-2 to the Celtics and LeBron responded with a 45 point 15 rebound game? Do I need to show you all of LeBrons stats in elimination games? I trust you've seen the data Pablo. They were counting them out vs IND last year when Bosh went down too. LBJ wasn't having that.

How about all of the kids on this site who already had their zippers down in Game 6 ready to celebrate a SA victory? Sorry bro, but LeBron had other things in mind.

And I'm just talking about Heat. He's done this shit with the shittty Cavs teams too(Pistons).

Jordans Bulls casts were WAY better than LeBrons Heat. The Heat have the biggest weakness any team could possibly have. Shitty interior play.

If you saw the Heat get a guy like Joakim Noah on their team then the Heat would indeed be comparable to a team like the Bulls who had no exploitable weaknesses on the court and the greatest coach in history at the helm.

As of now the Heat still have a glaring weakness that still leaves them vulnerable to other teams. This is a team that has gone and will go more adversity than Jordans teams ever did who simply beat teams because the roster is stacked and noone else in the league could compare.

lebron has lost many series where he was expected to win.

MJ never lost when he was expected to win.

[TonyMontana]

lebron has lost many series where he was expected to win.

MJ never lost when he was expected to win.

Like when? The only series LeBron should ever get blame for under performing is the 2011 Finals and guys have certainly had worst series. Look at Kobe averaging 15 PPG and 35% in the 00 Finals, but he got carried by a Peak Shaq so noone cares.

The only reason people were picking CLE over teams like ORL/BOS was because they were in awe at LeBrons ability.

CLE vs BOS
Boston has 4 of the top 5 players in the series. LeBron, Pierce, KG, Allen, Rondo.

CLE vs ORL
Orlando with 3 of the top 4 players in the series. LeBron, Shard, Hedo Dwight. I trust you've seen LeBrons quote about him having to guard Shard and Hedo and whoever he didn't guard was going off.

Teams win championships, not players.

Show me series Jordan won where the oppenent had 4 of the top 5 players in the series. Jordan had an MVP caliber player on his team in a league where no other superstar had a teammate like that. Add the greatest rebounder EVER and the greatest coach EVER, and you really think this team was going to lose?

57 wins with Jordan
55 wins without Jordan

Nice impact

:oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

07 Detroit was always far and away the favorite to beat Cleveland. The same Detroit team that had the next best 5-6 players after LeBron.

[juju151111]

Like when? The only series LeBron should ever get blame for under performing is the 2011 Finals and guys have certainly had worst series. Look at Kobe averaging 15 PPG and 35% in the 00 Finals, but he got carried by a Peak Shaq so noone cares.

The only reason people were picking CLE over teams like ORL/BOS was because they were in awe at LeBrons ability.

CLE vs BOS
Boston has 4 of the top 5 players in the series. LeBron, Pierce, KG, Allen, Rondo.

CLE vs ORL
Orlando with 3 of the top 4 players in the series. LeBron, Shard, Hedo Dwight. I trust you've seen LeBrons quote about him having to guard Shard and Hedo and whoever he didn't guard was going off.

Teams win championships, not players.

Show me series Jordan won where the oppenent had 4 of the top 5 players in the series. Jordan had an MVP caliber player on his team in a league where no other superstar had a teammate like that. Add the greatest rebounder EVER and the greatest coach EVER, and you really think this team was going to lose?

57 wins with Jordan
55 wins without Jordan

Nice impact


:oldlol:
Pippen wasn't any MVP caliber player in 91 and where was Pippen in 98. LJ choked in key moments in the series against the Celtics and Orlando. Stockton and Malone were better then injured Pippen. Shit pippen was getting taken out ogle finals games because of back injuries which Mj had to carry his old ads team to a chip.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Pippen wasn't any MVP caliber player in 91 and where was Pippen in 98. LJ choked in key moments in the series against the Celtics and Orlando. Stockton and Malone were better then injured Pippen. Shit pippen was getting taken out ogle finals games because of back injuries which Mj had to carry his old ads team to a chip.

LeBron is the only reason the Orlando series wasn't a sweep. Take a look at the averages LeBron's teammates put up in the 09 ECF. Go ahead, i'll wait.

[AceManIII]

Like when? The only series LeBron should ever get blame for under performing is the 2011 Finals

Alright, now name one series that we can blame Jordan

[dh144498]

LeBron is the only reason the Orlando series wasn't a sweep. Take a look at the averages LeBron's teammates put up in the 09 ECF. Go ahead, i'll wait.

they didn't put anything up because Lebron took all their shots. :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

they didn't put anything up because Lebron took all their shots. :oldlol:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905200CLE.html

Mo Williams- 6-19
Delonte West 4-13
LeBron James 20-30
Varejao 6-8
Big Z - 5-11

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905220CLE.html

Mo Williams 7-21
Delonte West 4-7
LeBron James 12-23
Varejao 2-5
Big Z 5-13

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905240ORL.html

Mo Williams 5-16
Delonte West 5-11
LeBron James -11-28
Varejao- 1-2
Big Z 3-10

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905260ORL.html

Mo Williams -5-15
Delonte West 7-15
LeBron James 13-29
Varejao 4-8
Big Z 5-9

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905280CLE.html

Mo Williams 7-14
Delonte West - 6-13
LeBron James 11-24
Varejao 3-6
Big Z 6-8

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905300ORL.html

Mo Williams 6-12
Delonte West - 9-19
LeBron James- 8-20
Varejao 7-12
Big Z 1-5


They got there shots. They couldn't hit anything. Nice try though. And this isn't even counting the bench that got outscored by one guy (Pietrus) for a whole series. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda, Kobe stan.