Kobe: Dirk is the best foreign player ever, period.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Kobe Bryant: Dirk Nowitzki is the best foreign player ever, period. After him, I have to put on the list Pau. Pau has always been one of the best players, one of the best skillsets I have ever seen. And after him, maybe Manu. And then, you know, there is Drazen Petrovic, Vlade Divac, Arvydas Sabonis. I am sure I am forgetting several players, but these are the ones who come up to my mind. And Tony Parker.


source (in spanish) Quote above is translated.

http://www.basketeria.com.br/pt/nba/item/6499-kobe-considera-dirk-nowitzki-melhor-n%C3%A3o-americano-da-%20hist%C3%B3ria.html

:bowdown: :bowdown:

greatness recognizes greatness. the mutual respect these two have, :cheers:

[Electric Slide]

This guy takes the cake

http://nbaat90s.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/hakeem-olajuwon.jpg

[SilkkTheShocker]

It's either him or Maciej Lampe

[fpliii]

This guy takes the cake

http://nbaat90s.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/hakeem-olajuwon.jpg

Hakeem was a naturalized US Citizen I believe (played for the USA in the Olympics), so he isn't eligible.

[CanYouDigIt]

Op is phaqqot, Kobe is even BIGGER phaqqot

[BoutPractice]

Good list.
I'm sure Euroleague will come in this thread to argue that foreigners in the NBA are all overrated compared to Nick Galis and the GOAT Spanoulis, though.

[SpecialQue]

Op is phaqqot, Kobe is even BIGGER phaqqot

Your avy and this post went together perfectly.

[Euroleague]

Hakeem was a naturalized US Citizen I believe (played for the USA in the Olympics), so he isn't eligible.

WTF?

:lol :roll: :rolleyes: :facepalm

Put down the crack pipe MORON. Hakeem is Nigerian born and Jordanian citizen and Jordanian person by his own personal statements and he IS the best foreign player ever.

Both you and Kobe are ****ing idiots.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Op is phaqqot, Kobe is even BIGGER phaqqot

u = :mad:

[SpecialQue]

WTF?

:lol :roll: :rolleyes: :facepalm

Put down the crack pipe MORON. Hakeem is Nigerian born and Jordanian citizen and Jordanian person by his own personal statements and he IS the best non-US player ever.

Both you and Kobe are ****ing idiots.

I love when Euroleague goes bonkers.

[DMAVS41]

If you count Hakeem...it's clearly him

Then Dirk.

Easily the two best foreign players ever

[fpliii]

WTF?

:lol :roll: :rolleyes: :facepalm

Put down the crack pipe MORON. Hakeem is Nigerian born and Jordanian citizen and Jordanian person by his own personal statements and he IS the best non-US player ever.

Both you and Kobe are ****ing idiots.

What the hell is the matter with you?


This is the rare team whose standard of behavior may be set by a rookie, of sorts. The Nigerian-born Olajuwon, nicknamed Hakeem the Dream, became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 1993 and is representing his new country for the first time in international competition at the Atlanta Games. In a sense, this really is Dream's Team. "These are Hakeem's Olympics in a lot of ways," Miller says. "He's the best player in the league who hasn't had the chance yet to wear USA on his chest. Playing in the Olympics means a lot to all of us, but I'm not sure anybody appreciates it more than he does. I'm sure that, in a sense, we're all going to follow his lead."

Above quote from SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/events/1996/olympics/daily/july20/dream.html). I've never had a problem with you on this board before, so I don't know where this is coming from. Check yourself.

[Le Shaqtus]

Godamnit no one mentions V Span :facepalm the ignorance.

[MavsSuperFan]

WTF?

:lol :roll: :rolleyes: :facepalm

Put down the crack pipe MORON. Hakeem is Nigerian born and Jordanian citizen and Jordanian person by his own personal statements and he IS the best non-US player ever.

Both you and Kobe are ****ing idiots.

I am actually impressed you are willing to admit someone playing in the NBA was the best foreign player ever. :cheers: Dat low expectations

[dh144498]

Godamnit no one mentions V Span :facepalm the ignorance.

:lol :oldlol:
:roll:

[Euroleague]

What the hell is the matter with you?



Above quote from SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/events/1996/olympics/daily/july20/dream.html). I've never had a problem with you on this board before, so I don't know where this is coming from. Check yourself.

WTF is wrong with YOU? Where the **** does it say in what you posted that Hakeem isn't foreign?

Even counted as foreign under FIBA rules, who listed him as Team USA foreign player. They allowed 3 on a team back then, and don't allow it now.

Good god you are a ****ing idiot.

[Orlando Magic]

I came here to post Hakeem but a bunch of you beat me to it.

All I've ever heard is how much of a great student of the game Kobe is. Turns out that he was just a Jordan stalker.

How else do you explain such an ignorant statement?

[Euroleague]

I came here to post Hakeem but a bunch of you beat me to it.

All I've ever heard is how much of a great student of the game Kobe is. Turns out that he was just a Jordan stalker.

How else do you explain such an ignorant statement?

Based on this comment, Kobe is either a Dirk nut rider, or he is just a freaking moron.

[scm5]

WTF is wrong with YOU? Where the **** does it say in what you posted that Hakeem isn't foreign?

Even counted as foreign under FIBA rules, who listed him as Team USA foreign player. They allowed 3 on a team back then, and don't allow it now.

Good god you are a ****ing idiot.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/bio/_/id/619/hakeem-olajuwon

"In 1996, Olajuwon enjoyed a pair of immense honors. After gaining American citizenship, Olajuwon was named to the US Olympic team that won a gold medal at the Atlanta Olympics. Another honor was being named one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History, which was announced on October 29th of that year."

http://www.nba.com/history/legends/hakeem-olajuwon/index.html

"The eight-year veteran, who later in the season became a naturalized United States citizen on April 2, 1993, was simply spectacular throughout the year."

[kennethgriffin]

pretty sure steve nash is foreign

born in africa, raised in canada

played for team canada


laker team mate? lol and he forgets him. hes atleast the 3rd or 4th best non US player ever

[Euroleague]

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/bio/_/id/619/hakeem-olajuwon

"In 1996, Olajuwon enjoyed a pair of immense honors. After gaining American citizenship, Olajuwon was named to the US Olympic team that won a gold medal at the Atlanta Olympics. Another honor was being named one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History, which was announced on October 29th of that year."

http://www.nba.com/history/legends/hakeem-olajuwon/index.html

"The eight-year veteran, who later in the season became a naturalized United States citizen on April 2, 1993, was simply spectacular throughout the year."

Are you people retarded? Kobe said "the best foreign player".

Where the **** does it say in any of that crap you posted that Olajuwon is not foreign?

ONCE AGAIN idiot, Olajuwon is a JORDANIAN CITIZEN. He was born and raised in Nigeria, and lived there until adulthood.

He has lived in JORDAN for many years now.

So again, how the **** does him having US citizenship mean he is not a foreign player? Tony Parker is a US citizen.............so what? He's not a foreign player anymore?

[Orlando Magic]

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/bio/_/id/619/hakeem-olajuwon

"In 1996, Olajuwon enjoyed a pair of immense honors. After gaining American citizenship, Olajuwon was named to the US Olympic team that won a gold medal at the Atlanta Olympics. Another honor was being named one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History, which was announced on October 29th of that year."

http://www.nba.com/history/legends/hakeem-olajuwon/index.html

"The eight-year veteran, who later in the season became a naturalized United States citizen on April 2, 1993, was simply spectacular throughout the year."

Semantics, ******. He's a foreigner.

Question... If Dirk becomes a US citizen in 2032 does he then relinquish his title of best foreigner ever? Lol.

I'd also take Sabonis and Yao over Dirk to start a team.

[fpliii]

WTF is wrong with YOU? Where the **** does it say in what you posted that Hakeem isn't foreign?

Even counted as foreign under FIBA rules, who listed him as Team USA foreign player. They allowed 3 on a team back then, and don't allow it now.

Good god you are a ****ing idiot.

No need for that, watch what you say.

I'm trying to parse Kobe's intent. Look who he named:

[Euroleague]

pretty sure steve nash is foreign

born in africa, raised in canada

played for team canada


laker team mate? lol and he forgets him. hes atleast the 3rd or 4th best non US player ever

Maybe Kobe meant best European players, and just worded it wrong?

Because he really sounds like a moron with that comment.

[PickernRoller]

10 year old kids in this thread.

Who cares. The King reigns supreme over all...

[scm5]

Maybe Kobe meant best European players, and just worded it wrong?

Because he really sounds like a moron with that comment.

You sound like such a little man.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Semantics, ******. He's a foreigner.

Question... If Dirk becomes a US citizen in 2032 does he then relinquish his title of best foreigner ever? Lol.

I'd also take Sabonis and Yao over Dirk to start a team.
:biggums:

[Euroleague]

No need for that, watch what you say.

I'm trying to parse Kobe's intent. Look who he named:

• Dirk
• Pau
• Manu
• Drazen
• Divac
• Sabonis
• possibly Parker

If he's going to name seven guys, and Hakeem's name doesn't come up, obviously it's not a slight. Kobe's worked with the man over the summer, and considers himself a student of NBA history. Hakeem obviously didn't even cross his mind when he was asked the question, so he clearly considers him to be non-foreign (likely due to his naturalized US citizenship). What's the problem?

My bad on the personal attack, sorry. But then, don't say Olajwuon "does not count", simply because Kobe is an idiot and forgot to mention him.

Not to mention he forgot other players as well. Does he really think Divac is one of the best foreign players ever or Parker?

I can name many guys just in Europe that were better than them. Kobe sounded like he does not know jack shit about international basketball history and it's really odd considering he grew up in Italy.

Hell, Kobe idolized Oscar Schmidt as a child in Italy and did not even mention him.

Kobe either misunderstood the question, is an idiot, or he actually knows nothing nearly as much of the game's history as he claims he does.

You don't have to make untrue claims like "Hakeem isn't foreign" to cover up Kobe being an ass with those comments.

Even if it was just supposed to be best European players ever, that list is ridiculous.

[scm5]

My bad on the personal attack, sorry. But then, don't say Olajwuon "does not count", simply because Kobe is an idiot and forgot to mention him.

Not to mention he forgot other players as well. Does he really think Divac is one of the best foreign players ever or Parker?

I can name many guys just in Europe that were better than them. Kobe sounded like he does not know jack shit about basketball history and it's really odd considering he grew up in Italy.

Hell, Kobe idolized Oscar Schmidt as a child in Italy and did not even mention him.

Kobe either misunderstood the question, is an idiot, or he actually knows nothing much of the game's history as he claims he does.

You don't have to make untrue claims like "Hakeem isn't foreign" to cover up Kobe being ass with those comments.

Even if it was just supposed to be best European players ever, that list is ridiculous.

No, you're ridiculous.

[alexd]

i would go with
http://www.nba.com/media/act_arvydas_sabonis.jpg

most of u never saw him play in his prime..he was unstoppable
and ofc
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/drazen-petrovic/drazen-petrovic-300c.jpg

those 2 are legends

[SilkkTheShocker]

If we aren't counting Hakeem, than I don't see the argument how it isn't Dirk. Dirk 2011 Finals team was expected to lose 3 of the 4 playoff series they were in. And even in the Blazers series, a lot of people were expecting a Dallas meltdown. Beats Portland, absolutely rapes the defending champs and later OKC. And than hits two game winners and seals the win over the Heat. And his team was nothing special when it came to his 2nd and 3rd options.

[Orlando Magic]

If we aren't counting Hakeem, than I don't see the argument how it isn't Dirk. Dirk 2011 Finals team was expected to lose 3 of the 4 playoff series they were in. And even in the Blazers series, a lot of people were expecting a Dallas meltdown. Beats Portland, absolutely rapes the defending champs and later OKC. And than hits two game winners and seals the win over the Heat. And his team was nothing special when it came to his 2nd and 3rd options.

Sabonis.

[fpliii]

My bad on the personal attack, sorry. But then, don't say Olajwuon "does not count", simply because Kobe is an idiot and forgot to mention him.

Not to mention he forgot other players as well. Does he really think Divac is one of the best foreign players ever or Parker?

I can name many guys just in Europe that were better than them. Kobe sounded like he does not know jack shit about international basketball history and it's really odd considering he grew up in Italy.

Hell, Kobe idolized Oscar Schmidt as a child in Italy and did not even mention him.

Kobe either misunderstood the question, is an idiot, or he actually knows nothing nearly as much of the game's history as he claims he does.

You don't have to make untrue claims like "Hakeem isn't foreign" to cover up Kobe being an ass with those comments.

Even if it was just supposed to be best European players ever, that list is ridiculous.

NP, I guess I was being confrontational too. What do you think Kobe was going for? His list is really arbitrary.

I'm not trying to defend Kobe, but for some reason I had the OP on my ignore list (not sure why, just took him off) so I was basing my thoughts on the title alone.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Sabonis.

He didn't play his prime in the NBA so I could give two shits about him. Dirk has NBA hardware. MVP, championship, etc. Zabonis has a bunch of garbage Euroleague awards that you would be lucky to sell for $5 at a yard sale.

[Mr Know It All]

Sabonis.

Based on what? European play? Gotta love the Dirk haters coming out of the woodwork.

[TonyMontana]

Pau Gasol, 2nd best foreign player ever, Basketball ambassador for his country. Transformed the Lakers from a first round and out team to 3 consecutive Finals team.

Other than LeBron James going to Miami, Pau Gasol going to LA was the most monumental NBA transaction of the last 15 years. As of now they are actually on equal footing.(Finals appearences in 1st year, followed up by two rings).

It is a shame this guy will NEVER get the recognition he deserves by casual NBA fans. Robbed of at least one Finals MVP award.

[alexd]

another one i forgot and i just remembered that i think is better than dirk is bodiroga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4

damn those yugoslavian / serbian people really know basketball..they master fundamentals and almost all of them can shoot
they are one of the oldest basketball european schools..too bad the war happened

and ofc nikos galis a legend in greece and in europe

[Orlando Magic]

He didn't play his prime in the NBA so I could give two shits about him. Dirk has NBA hardware. MVP, championship, etc. Zabonis has a bunch of garbage Euroleague awards that you would be lucky to sell for $5 at a yard sale.

How many German Olympic gold medals has Dirk led his country to?

Shut the **** up you ignorant slob.

[Euroleague]

If we aren't counting Hakeem, than I don't see the argument how it isn't Dirk. Dirk 2011 Finals team was expected to lose 3 of the 4 playoff series they were in. And even in the Blazers series, a lot of people were expecting a Dallas meltdown. Beats Portland, absolutely rapes the defending champs and later OKC. And than hits two game winners and seals the win over the Heat. And his team was nothing special when it came to his 2nd and 3rd options.

Yeah, IF you never saw anything other than NBA games.

Drazen Petrovic
Oscar Schmidt
Nikos Galis
Drazen Dalipagic
Dino Meneghin

I got them all as better than Dirk.........and if we consider achievements then so are guys like Sergey Belov way better also, but it's hard to compare because it's from such a long time ago.

Anyway, no freaking way is Dirk at the level of guys like Petrovic and Galis.

[Euroleague]

NP, I guess I was being confrontational too. What do you think Kobe was going for? His list is really arbitrary.

I'm not trying to defend Kobe, but for some reason I had the OP on my ignore list (not sure why, just took him off) so I was basing my thoughts on the title alone.

Well, it reads to me like best European players that played in the NBA list, to be honest.

[alexd]

Based on what? European play? Gotta love the Dirk haters coming out of the woodwork.

most people here havent seen sabonis or drazen play on their prime because they were not in the nba.anyone who is from europe can tell u how dominant they were.and its not that their competition was low as u think,but they were really really good.don t underestimate them.and don t overrate dirk.yeah he s a deadly scorer,but he can t defend or rebound.just because he went godlike mode offensively for one year doesn t make him the better european player ever.if u havent really seen anyone else you can t really judge

[Euroleague]

another one i forgot and i just remembered that i think is better than dirk is bodiroga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4

damn those yugoslavian / serbian people really know basketball..they master fundamentals and almost all of them can shoot
they are one of the oldest basketball european schools..too bad the war happened

See, this is the damn problem with NBA only fans.........

All these guys like Dalipagic, Belov, Kosic, Galis, Bodiroga, Meneghin, Schmidt and such types of players...........

Just because they never played in the NBA these NBA only fans refuse to even acknowledge their existence. It's unbelievable.

I've seen Dirk play just about every EuroBasket game he ever played in his career I think. It's honestly laughable to me that some really think he's the best European player ever.

[SilkkTheShocker]

How many German Olympic gold medals has Dirk led his country to?

Shut the **** up you ignorant slob.

Don't remember Sabonis winning any gold medals either. At the end of the day Dirk led his team to the promise land twice, won an MVP, and was a dominant PF in the same league with Duncan, KG, Webber, etc. At the end of the day, its all about what you did in the NBA. Anything overseas is just meh.

[TonyMontana]

another one i forgot and i just remembered that i think is better than dirk is bodiroga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4

damn those yugoslavian / serbian people really know basketball..they master fundamentals and almost all of them can shoot
they are one of the oldest basketball european schools..too bad the war happened

THIS GUY? better than Dirk?

I understand that people think their gurus if they name these unknown guys that never played in the NBA, but lets be real.

If your THAT good, your going to be playing in the NBA. The NBA is where all of the fame and money is, even if you just want to stay in your comfortable enviroment like Sabonis did your going to at least give the NBA a shot at some point.

You think a team building around BODIROGO would be winning 50+ games every year for a decade? taking into account that the Mavericks never had a great second star or a dominant rim protector until Chandler(who they only had for one year and won a title).

Noone compares to Dirk except Hakeem who played college ball in the US and played for the US in the Olympics. If your not playing for your home country in the olympics, you dont qualify as "foreign".

[Mr Know It All]

most people here havent seen sabonis or drazen play on their prime because they were not in the nba.anyone who is from europe can tell u how dominant they were.and its not that their competition was low as u think,but they were really really good.don t underestimate them.and don t overrate dirk.yeah he s a deadly scorer,but he can t defend or rebound.just because he went godlike mode offensively for one year doesn t make him the better european player ever.if u havent really seen anyone else you can t really judge

One year?

Dirk was consistently a monster since 2001. Lead the league in PER and Win Shares in 2005-06 and 2006-07. His defense also wasn't nearly as bad as people made out, especially after the Avery Johnson years.

Perhaps you shouldn't talk about not watching people really play when you're ignorant as to the play and accolades of a guy who is right in front of us. Petrovic and Sabonis both played in the NBA anyway. Petrovic was good but not on Dirk's level, while Sabonis was in his early thirties and past his prime, yet still was not on Dirk's level at the same age.

[secund2nun]

See, this is the damn problem with NBA only fans.........

All these guys like Dalipagic, Belov, Kosic, Galis, Bodiroga, Meneghin, Schmidt and such types of players...........

Just because they never played in the NBA these NBA only fans refuse to even acknowledge their existence. It's unbelievable.

I've seen Dirk play just about every EuroBasket game he ever played in his career I think. It's honestly laughable to me that some really think he's the best European player ever.

None of those players were as good as Dirk, which is why most did not come to the NBA, which they would have if they were better than Dirk because they could have earned 20 million a year. The few that did come were nothing compared to Dirk.

Dirk is a guy that battled prime Duncan to near even and you think some Euro-scrub is better than Dirk? :roll:

[KyleKong]

Dirk is better than Steve Nash, probably.

But Hakeem shits on everyone else.

[alexd]

scoring the basketball efficiently doesn t make you the best player ever.dirk is god only in 1 side of the court.you can t call some1 the best just for that.he has no defense,he can t pass that great like sabonis, he can t rebound.he s just a really great scorer.that doesn t make you the best player.by that logic iverson > bill russell ..there are many things in basketball apart from scoring.but people tend to pay attetion only to that.btw dirk was never really really good in fiba basketball because he needs room to play.many people struggle with the rule changes and difference in playstyle like lebron

[Euroleague]

Pau Gasol, 2nd best foreign player ever, Basketball ambassador for his country. Transformed the Lakers from a first round and out team to 3 consecutive Finals team.

Other than LeBron James going to Miami, Pau Gasol going to LA was the most monumental NBA transaction of the last 15 years. As of now they are actually on equal footing.(Finals appearences in 1st year, followed up by two rings).

It is a shame this guy will NEVER get the recognition he deserves by casual NBA fans. Robbed of at least one Finals MVP award.

Well, Pau has been better than Dirk in national team play without a doubt. But in the NBA Dirk has been better.

[Euroleague]

Don't remember Sabonis winning any gold medals either. At the end of the day Dirk led his team to the promise land twice, won an MVP, and was a dominant PF in the same league with Duncan, KG, Webber, etc. At the end of the day, its all about what you did in the NBA. Anything overseas is just meh.

Once.

[DirkNowitzki41]

One year?

Dirk was consistently a monster since 2001. Lead the league in PER and Win Shares in 2005-06 and 2006-07. His defense also wasn't nearly as bad as people made out, especially after the Avery Johnson years.

Perhaps you shouldn't talk about not watching people really play when you're ignorant as to the play and accolades of a guy who is right in front of us. Petrovic and Sabonis both played in the NBA anyway. Petrovic was good but not on Dirk's level, while Sabonis was in his early thirties and past his prime, yet still was not on Dirk's level at the same age.

:roll: :roll: I love how people think Dirk was only good one year.. pathetic. Dude kills it in the playoffs every year. He's underrating Dirk big time

And why do people act like Dirk can't rebound? He is a good rebounder, especially in the playoffs. Dirk in his younger days with some athleticism was a monster. Grabbing 15boards while scoring 25+ against prime Duncan and KG.

[Euroleague]

THIS GUY? better than Dirk?

I understand that people think their gurus if they name these unknown guys that never played in the NBA, but lets be real.

If your THAT good, your going to be playing in the NBA. The NBA is where all of the fame and money is, even if you just want to stay in your comfortable enviroment like Sabonis did your going to at least give the NBA a shot at some point.

You think a team building around BODIROGO would be winning 50+ games every year for a decade? taking into account that the Mavericks never had a great second star or a dominant rim protector until Chandler(who they only had for one year and won a title).

Noone compares to Dirk except Hakeem who played college ball in the US and played for the US in the Olympics. If your not playing for your home country in the olympics, you dont qualify as "foreign".

I don't know if Bodi was better than Dirk or not, but he was by far better than 95% of NBA players.

And Hakeem is a FOREIGN player you xenophobic POS.

**** OFF.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Don't remember Sabonis winning any gold medals either. At the end of the day Dirk led his team to the promise land twice, won an MVP, and was a dominant PF in the same league with Duncan, KG, Webber, etc. At the end of the day, its all about what you did in the NBA. Anything overseas is just meh.

:applause:

[Euroleague]

None of those players were as good as Dirk, which is why most did not come to the NBA, which they would have if they were better than Dirk because they could have earned 20 million a year. The few that did come were nothing compared to Dirk.

Dirk is a guy that battled prime Duncan to near even and you think some Euro-scrub is better than Dirk? :roll:

You are a ****ing IDIOT.

[DirkNowitzki41]

THIS GUY? better than Dirk?

I understand that people think their gurus if they name these unknown guys that never played in the NBA, but lets be real.

If your THAT good, your going to be playing in the NBA. The NBA is where all of the fame and money is, even if you just want to stay in your comfortable enviroment like Sabonis did your going to at least give the NBA a shot at some point.

You think a team building around BODIROGO would be winning 50+ games every year for a decade? taking into account that the Mavericks never had a great second star or a dominant rim protector until Chandler(who they only had for one year and won a title).

Noone compares to Dirk except Hakeem who played college ball in the US and played for the US in the Olympics. If your not playing for your home country in the olympics, you dont qualify as "foreign".

ouch :lol

:applause:

[Euroleague]

scoring the basketball efficiently doesn t make you the best player ever.dirk is god only in 1 side of the court.you can t call some1 the best just for that.he has no defense,he can t pass that great like sabonis, he can t rebound.he s just a really great scorer.that doesn t make you the best player.by that logic iverson > bill russell ..there are many things in basketball apart from scoring.but people tend to pay attetion only to that.btw dirk was never really really good in fiba basketball because he needs room to play.many people struggle with the rule changes and difference in playstyle like lebron

Give it up man. Most of these guys in this thread are clearly retarded.

[Mr Know It All]

Give it up man. Most of these guys in this thread are clearly retarded.

Can you justify why we should consider results and play from a clearly inferior league talent wise over the NBA when evaluating someone like Dirk or the other names you dropped?

Honestly, I just want an explanation.

[secund2nun]

You are a ****ing IDIOT.

Not only is your euro>NBA belief trash as the NBA is a billion miles superior to your little euroleague, you also have the mental capacity of a 5 year old and hurl curse words at any one who disagrees with you. You are the worst poster on this board.

Imagine your little euro sissy all-time squad taking on this team:

C Shaq Hakeem Wilt Robinson
PF Duncan Garnett Barkley Malone
SF Lebron Bird Durant Pippen
SG Jordan Wade Drexler Kobe
PF Magic Stockton CP3 Thomas

LOL The sooner you accept that the NBA is far superior to the Euroleague the sooner you will find happiness and not curse anyone who tries to pull you out of your matrix fictional euroleague world :roll:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Once.

Im referring to the Finals in general, genius. Try to keep up.

[Euroleague]

Can you justify why we should consider results and play from a clearly inferior league talent wise over the NBA when evaluating someone like Dirk or the other names you dropped?

Honestly, I just want an explanation.

If you can't see how refusing to consider anything non-NBA for rating basketball players makes you an ignorant, stupid, xenophobic jackass and a total POS, then you do NOT deserve to even have it discussed with you.

You are a closed minded dumb ass.

[Euroleague]

Not only is your euro>NBA belief trash as the NBA is a billion miles superior to your little euroleague, you also have the mental capacity of a 5 year old and hurl curse words at any one who disagrees with you. You are the worst poster on this board.

Imagine your little euro sissy all-time squad taking on this team:

C Shaq Hakeem Wilt Robinson
PF Duncan Garnett Barkley Malone
SF Lebron Bird Durant Pippen
SG Jordan Wade Drexler Kobe
PF Magic Stockton CP3 Thomas

LOL The sooner you accept that the NBA is far superior to the Euroleague the sooner you will find happiness and not curse anyone who tries to pull you out of your matrix fictional euroleague world :roll:

Perma ignore list.

[Euroleague]

Im referring to the Finals in general, genius. Try to keep up.

Losing in the finals is not "leading your team to the promise land".

Evidently, you are just a huge troll.

[dannywpt]

Are you people retarded? Kobe said "the best foreign player".

Where the **** does it say in any of that crap you posted that Olajuwon is not foreign?

ONCE AGAIN idiot, Olajuwon is a JORDANIAN CITIZEN. He was born and raised in Nigeria, and lived there until adulthood.

He has lived in JORDAN for many years now.

So again, how the **** does him having US citizenship mean he is not a foreign player? Tony Parker is a US citizen.............so what? He's not a foreign player anymore?

Is that you THeooo? :oldlol:

[Mr Know It All]

If you can't see how refusing to consider anything non-NBA for rating basketball players makes you an ignorant, stupid, xenophobic jackass and a total POS, then you do NOT deserve to even have it discussed with you.

You are a closed minded dumb ass.

I see, you are a malcontent.

[Shade8780]

Alex Ajinca is the GOAT

[7_cody]

My bad on the personal attack, sorry. But then, don't say Olajwuon "does not count", simply because Kobe is an idiot and forgot to mention him.

Not to mention he forgot other players as well. Does he really think Divac is one of the best foreign players ever or Parker?

I can name many guys just in Europe that were better than them. Kobe sounded like he does not know jack shit about international basketball history and it's really odd considering he grew up in Italy.

Hell, Kobe idolized Oscar Schmidt as a child in Italy and did not even mention him.

Kobe either misunderstood the question, is an idiot, or he actually knows nothing nearly as much of the game's history as he claims he does.

You don't have to make untrue claims like "Hakeem isn't foreign" to cover up Kobe being an ass with those comments.

Even if it was just supposed to be best European players ever, that list is ridiculous.

You take these forums way too seriously

Obviously Kobe was using a different definition and criteria for "foreign player". It is good to know that this is a matter of life and death for you, however. Don't go kill yourself over it.

[Euroleague]

I see, you are a malcontent.

You are the one believing in absurdity. To actually believe nothing but NBA play can be used to judge a basketball player makes you a moron and a xenophobe.

It also pushes into racist category.

[Segatti]

One year?

Dirk was consistently a monster since 2001. Lead the league in PER and Win Shares in 2005-06 and 2006-07. His defense also wasn't nearly as bad as people made out, especially after the Avery Johnson years.

Perhaps you shouldn't talk about not watching people really play when you're ignorant as to the play and accolades of a guy who is right in front of us. Petrovic and Sabonis both played in the NBA anyway. Petrovic was good but not on Dirk's level, while Sabonis was in his early thirties and past his prime, yet still was not on Dirk's level at the same age.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[sportjames23]

This guy takes the cake

http://nbaat90s.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/hakeem-olajuwon.jpg


Yup.

I was thinking of European players, as that's what we're automatically used to comparing, but yeah, Dream is the best foreign player ever.

Now, if we're talking Euro players only, I'd probably have to disagree with Kobe--Sabonis was a beast from what I've seen of old vids.

[tomtucker]

has to be tony parker

[Psileas]

Just because the question asks in general who the GOAT foreign players were doesn't mean that Kobe understood the question in this exact way. After all, apart from Hakeem, there's also Ewing (born in Jamaica), Steve Nash and Rolando Blackman (Panama), and he mentioned none of them. Dominique Wilkins was born in France to American parents. On the other hand, Bob Cousy was born in the US to French parents.

I guess Kobe's mind went just to European NBA players, as would the mind of lots of other NBAers.

[jstern]

Hakeem was a naturalized US Citizen I believe (played for the USA in the Olympics), so he isn't eligible.
I was thinking that he's probably right, and then I saw this picture.

[bettalaylow]

I don't know if Bodi was better than Dirk or not, but he was by far better than 95% of NBA players.

And Hakeem is a FOREIGN player you xenophobic POS.

**** OFF.


Did you not take your Ritalin or maybe it's your zit cream that makes you spaz out so bad.

[alexd]

u saw dirk develop u haven t seen sabonis and they way he dominated.when dirk has an off shooting night he cant hurt u in many ways.he s not that great rebounder or passer.sabonis is 1 of the best big man passers.he s tougher and higher iq.i love dirk but he s not the unstoppable force u want him to be
btw i bet 90% people here haven t heard bodiroga or galis.both of them could go in the nba and be a force.not everyone wants to go to the nba.they asked galis to come he said no.nba is the best league in the league but doesn t have all the best players ever.european stars who can dominate and operate in the european style can do it in the nba too.what i mean is that no one could guard bodiroga 1vs1.now put him in a larger arena like the nba and u think they could guard him there?the defense in the nba is a joke compared to europe.nba has by far the best athletes.there s not comparison.but basketball players?no
to clarify what i mean.lebron is the best player in the nba now but not because of his basketball skills (lack of funadmentals etc)but because of his work as an athlete and his work ethic
another example is rubio and prigioni.both of them are now considered scrubs in the european style but one 1 solid role player and u think rubio is a young perhaps someday all start caliber player.i m not saying the opposite but its the nba style that helps them.they are fundamentally sound and have much more room to operate and dribble.same is with sabonis galis etc.u just have never seen them playing.i grew up and saw all of them and bodiroga is up there with drazen sabonis dirk pau

[Mr Know It All]

You are the one believing in absurdity. To actually believe nothing but NBA play can be used to judge a basketball player makes you a moron and a xenophobe.

It also pushes into racist category.

Now this is some good baiting.

Your arguments are about as relevant and popular as the folks at the flat earth society. Which leads me to believe you are getting lulz out of this or are completely insane. Either way, you are a waste.

[Jameerthefear]

LOL Euroclown and alexd are fvcking morons.

[alexd]

LOL Euroclown and alexd are fvcking morons.

some valid points from an educated and sharped mind

[TheBigVeto]

If Hakeem is excluded then yeah Dirk is the best.
But he shouldn't be excluded.

[winnnaz]

Although not the best, a fully fit Yao has to be up there yet has not been mentioned yet.

[PickernRoller]

Who cares?

I am the best ever - cry about it for 4 more pages.

[Hank]

Who cares?

I am the best ever - cry about it for 4 more pages.

we have a winner. :applause:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Hakeem clearly wanted to and considered himself to be American. By choice, so he's out of the running. Kid played college ball here, played for our Olympic team. His stance is clear. So the best foreign born players of all-time?

Dirk
Gasol
Petrovic
Sabonis
Divac
Ginobili
T. Parker

[The_Yearning]

Hakeem clearly wanted to and considered himself to be American. By choice, so he's out of the running. Kid played college ball here, played for our Olympic team. His stance is clear. So the best foreign born players of all-time?

Dirk
Gasol
Petrovic
Sabonis
Divac
Ginobili
T. Parker

Kobe still butt hurt from the years SA beat Shaq's Lakers.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

After going thru this thread, all I have to say is....LOL @ people trying to argue that Sabonis was better than Dirk..:oldlol:

LOL @ the argument that anyone other than Olajuwon (if you want to get real technical about who's "foreign") being better than or having a better career than Dirk.

Put down the crack pipe, srsly :biggums:

[Dr.J4ever]

u saw dirk develop u haven t seen sabonis and they way he dominated.when dirk has an off shooting night he cant hurt u in many ways.he s not that great rebounder or passer.sabonis is 1 of the best big man passers.he s tougher and higher iq.i love dirk but he s not the unstoppable force u want him to be
btw i bet 90% people here haven t heard bodiroga or galis.both of them could go in the nba and be a force.not everyone wants to go to the nba.they asked galis to come he said no.nba is the best league in the league but doesn t have all the best players ever.european stars who can dominate and operate in the european style can do it in the nba too.what i mean is that no one could guard bodiroga 1vs1.now put him in a larger arena like the nba and u think they could guard him there?the defense in the nba is a joke compared to europe.nba has by far the best athletes.there s not comparison.but basketball players?no
to clarify what i mean.lebron is the best player in the nba now but not because of his basketball skills (lack of funadmentals etc)but because of his work as an athlete and his work ethic
another example is rubio and prigioni.both of them are now considered scrubs in the european style but one 1 solid role player and u think rubio is a young perhaps someday all start caliber player.i m not saying the opposite but its the nba style that helps them.they are fundamentally sound and have much more room to operate and dribble.same is with sabonis galis etc.u just have never seen them playing.i grew up and saw all of them and bodiroga is up there with drazen sabonis dirk pau

Well, Alexd, I know you're not like Euroleague, and you can be reasoned with.
Where Kobe is coming from simply is from a perspective that players that prove themselves in the NBA are the best players. As one poster here said, do you honestly believe 1 NBA team can build around Bodiroga and he leads them to a decade of 50 plus wins and an NBA Title? ..... Really?

Saying, for example, that the NBA defense is a joke compared to Europe makes your arguments weaker, and gives you less credibility. We all know some of the best Euros have come to the NBA and struggled mightily. This is a long list led by Spanoulis, Jasikevicious, and many others. (Sorry Euroleague Nazi) . Rubio is not a "scrub" in the European style. Let's see how Spain's National team treats him in the Eurobasket. If he is not one of their prime time players, I will believe you. Okay?

Now, does this mean all basketball outside of the NBA doesn't count in your resume? By all means, no. Look at Manu. He's a sure fire HOF. Why? Even though he has not accomplished top of the line NBA All Star stats, you have to consider Manu's entire body of work. 3 NBA TItles, 1 Euroleague Title, Olympic Gold beating Team USA led by Duncan in 2004.

Even Sabonis made it to the HOF on the back of his FIBA career, but his NBA stint reaffirmed that he was one of the great centers of all time. Sadly, we never saw his best. So yes, FIBA play can make you a GOAT list type player,but an NBA stint makes it crystal clear.

Hope this enlightens you a little.

[eklip]

Well, Pau has been better than Dirk in national team play without a doubt. But in the NBA Dirk has been better.
Pau just had better teammates.

[9erempiree]

Although Hakeem is from Nigeria, I don't consider him a foreign player or a foreigner.

He came to the States when he was 18. His entire basketball career in the states spanned for 22 years. Hakeem played basketball here more in the States than him living in his mother country.

Not a foreigner, or at least, his game wasn't derived from back home. He had plenty of coaching to get him to where he is. Kobe's pretty much right.

I think when we think "foreign players" we usually think about those guys that didn't go to college here. If you went to college here, you are no longer considered a foreign player.

Foreign player would mean foreign coaching and that's all they had coming to the NBA. It depends on who their last coach was.

[rhythmic]

WTF?

:lol :roll: :rolleyes: :facepalm

Put down the crack pipe MORON. Hakeem is Nigerian born and Jordanian citizen and Jordanian person by his own personal statements and he IS the best foreign player ever.

Both you and Kobe are ****ing idiots.

Why do you have to be so rude?
Uneducated people can't express their opinion without offending others, think about that before clicking reply next time.

I make exceptions to certain posts (like Indian Guy) because quite frankly they are idiots; but you're hostile towards everyone.

[Fiba basketball]

Well, Alexd, I know you're not like Euroleague, and you can be reasoned with.
Where Kobe is coming from simply is from a perspective that players that prove themselves in the NBA are the best players. As one poster here said, do you honestly believe 1 NBA team can build around Bodiroga and he leads them to a decade of 50 plus wins and an NBA Title? ..... Really?

Saying, for example, that the NBA defense is a joke compared to Europe makes your arguments weaker, and gives you less credibility. We all know some of the best Euros have come to the NBA and struggled mightily. This is a long list led by Spanoulis, Jasikevicious, and many others. (Sorry Euroleague Nazi) . Rubio is not a "scrub" in the European style. Let's see how Spain's National team treats him in the Eurobasket. If he is not one of their prime time players, I will believe you. Okay?

Now, does this mean all basketball outside of the NBA doesn't count in your resume? By all means, no. Look at Manu. He's a sure fire HOF. Why? Even though he has not accomplished top of the line NBA All Star stats, you have to consider Manu's entire body of work. 3 NBA TItles, 1 Euroleague Title, Olympic Gold beating Team USA led by Duncan in 2004.

Even Sabonis made it to the HOF on the back of his FIBA career, but his NBA stint reaffirmed that he was one of the great centers of all time. Sadly, we never saw his best. So yes, FIBA play can make you a GOAT list type player,but an NBA stint makes it crystal clear.

Hope this enlightens you a little.

Bodiroga is considered by most to be the best Serbian player eve , better than Divac and Stojakovic who was an MVP candidate. I'm not saying he would be better than Dirk who is my favorite foreign player and who I considered the best player in the world in the last years but I don't consider him best European player of all time.

What Kobe said is to me wrong not because of where he ranked Dirk, you can argue that he is right about that, but because where he ranked otheres. I'm sorry but Gasol 2nd best player , Manu better than Petrovic and Sabonis :facepalm. Does he know about Bodiroga, Galis, Schmidt, Kukoc ,Djordjevic and let's not talk about Korac who no one here except very few know about and we are talking about a player after who the league was named .

[Mr Know It All]

u saw dirk develop u haven t seen sabonis and they way he dominated.when dirk has an off shooting night he cant hurt u in many ways.he s not that great rebounder or passer.sabonis is 1 of the best big man passers.he s tougher and higher iq.i love dirk but he s not the unstoppable force u want him to be

See this is just untrue. First of all, we can't judge Sabonis' early play properly because he didn't play against the best basketball talent in the world during his tenure. Still impressive? No doubt. But you are making huge leaps to say he is a superior player to Dirk.

When Dirk has an off shooting night he has plenty of ways to hurt you. Don't know why being a great shooter is considered a minus by some of you people. Dirk is a consistent 47-51% shooter during the season, plus a 40% 3 point shooter and 90% free throw shooter. He is not some chucker who disappears when his shot is off. The Mavericks thrived off of Dirk's post up passing game during their 2011 run and in year's passed.

In his younger days Dirk had the speed and athleticism to go to the rim and be a real threat. And after Avery he became one of the deadliest post up players in the league with one of the most unstoppable shots of all time (the one legged fade away).


btw i bet 90% people here haven t heard bodiroga or galis.both of them could go in the nba and be a force.not everyone wants to go to the nba.they asked galis to come he said no.nba is the best league in the league but doesn t have all the best players ever.european stars who can dominate and operate in the european style can do it in the nba too.what i mean is that no one could guard bodiroga 1vs1.now put him in a larger arena like the nba and u think they could guard him there?the defense in the nba is a joke compared to europe.nba has by far the best athletes.there s not comparison.but basketball players?no
to clarify what i mean.lebron is the best player in the nba now but not because of his basketball skills (lack of funadmentals etc)but because of his work as an athlete and his work ethic
another example is rubio and prigioni.both of them are now considered scrubs in the european style but one 1 solid role player and u think rubio is a young perhaps someday all start caliber player.i m not saying the opposite but its the nba style that helps them.they are fundamentally sound and have much more room to operate and dribble.same is with sabonis galis etc.u just have never seen them playing.i grew up and saw all of them and bodiroga is up there with drazen sabonis dirk pau

Again, no one is saying Euroleague is without value in evaluating players or that Europeans are generally inferior. The NBA is the best basketball league in the world, and we evaluate the best players in the world based on their play in said league. For the same reason you don't argue that performance in MLS should be as valued as player performance in La Liga or Bundesliga when we're talking about soccer/football.

[Euroleague]

Hakeem clearly wanted to and considered himself to be American. By choice, so he's out of the running. Kid played college ball here, played for our Olympic team. His stance is clear. So the best foreign born players of all-time?

Dirk
Gasol
Petrovic
Sabonis
Divac
Ginobili
T. Parker

Hakeem considers himself JORDANIAN, not American dumb ass.

[Euroleague]

Well, Alexd, I know you're not like Euroleague, and you can be reasoned with.
Where Kobe is coming from simply is from a perspective that players that prove themselves in the NBA are the best players. As one poster here said, do you honestly believe 1 NBA team can build around Bodiroga and he leads them to a decade of 50 plus wins and an NBA Title? ..... Really?

Saying, for example, that the NBA defense is a joke compared to Europe makes your arguments weaker, and gives you less credibility. We all know some of the best Euros have come to the NBA and struggled mightily. This is a long list led by Spanoulis, Jasikevicious, and many others. (Sorry Euroleague Nazi) . Rubio is not a "scrub" in the European style. Let's see how Spain's National team treats him in the Eurobasket. If he is not one of their prime time players, I will believe you. Okay?

Now, does this mean all basketball outside of the NBA doesn't count in your resume? By all means, no. Look at Manu. He's a sure fire HOF. Why? Even though he has not accomplished top of the line NBA All Star stats, you have to consider Manu's entire body of work. 3 NBA TItles, 1 Euroleague Title, Olympic Gold beating Team USA led by Duncan in 2004.

Even Sabonis made it to the HOF on the back of his FIBA career, but his NBA stint reaffirmed that he was one of the great centers of all time. Sadly, we never saw his best. So yes, FIBA play can make you a GOAT list type player,but an NBA stint makes it crystal clear.

Hope this enlightens you a little.

Rubio is one of the biggest scrubs that played in Euroleague in the last 10 years.

[Euroleague]

Although Hakeem is from Nigeria, I don't consider him a foreign player or a foreigner.

He came to the States when he was 18. His entire basketball career in the states spanned for 22 years. Hakeem played basketball here more in the States than him living in his mother country.

Not a foreigner, or at least, his game wasn't derived from back home. He had plenty of coaching to get him to where he is. Kobe's pretty much right.

I think when we think "foreign players" we usually think about those guys that didn't go to college here. If you went to college here, you are no longer considered a foreign player.

Foreign player would mean foreign coaching and that's all they had coming to the NBA. It depends on who their last coach was.

According to your logic, Linas Kleiza, Marcelo Huertas, Detlef Schrempf, Sarunas Jasikevicius, and many other foreign players are "Americans" then.

I am sorry, but this is absolutely bullshit.

Playing high school and or college basketball in USA does not make you American.

Unbelievable to have in the same thread some NBA only fan calling Jasikevicius a "Euro scrub", and then in the same thread another NBA only fan comes and says playing high school and college basketball automatically makes you American.

Why are American NBA only fans always bashing Jasikevicius and calling him a "Euro scrub".............????

HE'S AN AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

[Bandito]

Why is Euroleague and some idiots going bonkers about what Kobe said? he has a lot of respect for Dirk and even he said that forgot a lot of players so calm down.



According to your logic, Linas Kleiza, Marcelo Huertas, Detlef Shchrempf, Sarunas Jasikevicius, and many other foreign players are "Americans" then.

I am sorry, but this is absolutely bullshit.

Playing high school and or college basketball in USA does not make you American.

Unbelievable to have in the same thread some NBA only fan calling Jasikevicius a "Euro scrub", and then in the same thread another NBA only fan comes and says playing high school and college basketball automatically makes you American.

Why are American NBA only fans always bashing Jasikevicius and calling him a "Euro scrub".............????

HE'S AN AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You are right, Hakeem is foreign and not American. He just forgot about him because he just forgot about him and has a lot of respect for Dirk. Why are you so mad about what he said though?

[Euroleague]

Bodiroga is considered by most to be the best Serbian player eve , better than Divac and Stojakovic who was an MVP candidate. I'm not saying he would be better than Dirk who is my favorite foreign player and who I considered the best player in the world in the last years but I don't consider him best European player of all time.

What Kobe said is to me wrong not because of where he ranked Dirk, you can argue that he is right about that, but because where he ranked otheres. I'm sorry but Gasol 2nd best player , Manu better than Petrovic and Sabonis :facepalm. Does he know about Bodiroga, Galis, Schmidt, Kukoc ,Djordjevic and let's not talk about Korac who no one here except very few know about and we are talking about a player after who the league was named .

Dalipagic, Kosic, Meneghin, S. Belov...............hell even Giannakis was better than some of the guys Kobe mentioned.

I am just thinking...........guys like Danilovic, Myers, Djordevic that were such great players in the 90s and it is like no one from NBA fans even knows who they are.

The bottom line is these American NBA fans don't know a damn thing about basketball. I see over and over they know nothing of FIBA, nothing of Olympics basketball, nothing of any league other than NBA, and 90%+ of them don't even know a thing about NCAA even.

But should we be surprised they don't know Bodiroga, or Korac, or Dalipagic, or whatever?

We are talking about the same MORONS that claim guys like Rubio, Dragic, Lawson, Neal, Childress, Weems, Jennings, Farmar, Bobby Brown, and on and on were "dominant superstars in Europe" and were "the best players ever in Euroleague".

We are talking about the same MORONS that claim guys like Navarro and Spanoulis can't make an NBA roster.

We should be surprised at literally nothing these IDIOTS here say. I mean, guys like Bodiroga and Galis are among the probably top 20-30 most famous basketball players (maybe even top 10-15 for Galis) that ever lived.

And yet, these RETARDS here say no one has ever even heard of them.

Galis in his prime was like Jordan of Europe...........even rivaled the biggest football players. He was an ICON of sport on a whole continent.

The ISH's "basketball experts" will say he is a "scrub no one ever heard of".

[Euroleague]

Pau just had better teammates.

He did. He had much better teammates in general. But also, Dirk did not play that well for Germany once European teams started to figure his game out. The last few years he played with Germany, Dirk was not very good.

[Dr.J4ever]

Dalipagic, Kosic, Meneghin, S. Belov...............hell even Giannakis was better than some of the guys Kobe mentioned.

I am just thinking...........guys like Danilovic, Myers, Djordevic that were such great players in the 90s and it is like no one from NBA fans even knows who they are.

The bottom line is these American NBA fans don't know a damn thing about basketball. I see over and over they know nothing of FIBA, nothing of Olympics basketball, nothing of any league other than NBA, and 90%+ of them don't even know a thing about NCAA even.

But should we be surprised they don't know Bodiroga, or Korac, or Dalipagic, or whatever?

We are talking about the same MORONS that claim guys like Rubio, Dragic, Lawson, Neal, Childress, Weems, Jennings, Farmar, Bobby Brown, and on and on were "dominant superstars in Europe" and were "the best players ever in Euroleague".

We are talking about the same MORONS that claim guys like Navarro and Spanoulis can't make an NBA roster.

We should be surprised at literally nothing these IDIOTS here say. I mean, guys like Bodiroga and Galis are among the probably top 10 most famous basketball players (maybe even top 10 for Galis) that ever lived.

And yet, these RETARDS here say no one has ever even heard of them.

Galis in his prime was like Jordan of Europe...........even rivaled the biggest football players. He was an ICON of sport on a whole continent.

The ISH's "basketball experts" will say he is a "scrub no one ever heard of".

All I can say regarding this rant is this: Spanoulis " Who doesn't want to be in the NBA? The best players play there."

End of the story.

[Euroleague]

Again, no one is saying Euroleague is without value in evaluating players or that Europeans are generally inferior. The NBA is the best basketball league in the world, and we evaluate the best players in the world based on their play in said league. For the same reason you don't argue that performance in MLS should be as valued as player performance in La Liga or Bundesliga when we're talking about soccer/football.

You are a true dumb ass.

MLS is like the level of the national basketball league in Belgium.

Euroleague is like the level of Champions league.

Piss off.

[Euroleague]

Why is Euroleague and some idiots going bonkers about what Kobe said? he has a lot of respect for Dirk and even he said that forgot a lot of players so calm down.

You are right, Hakeem is foreign and not American. He just forgot about him because he just forgot about him and has a lot of respect for Dirk. Why are you so mad about what he said though?

I'm not. I'm mad at these xenophobic clowns saying Hakeem is not foreign or that anyone that played high school or college basketball in USA is American, or that no basketball other than NBA games can be used to judge any basketball player.

Kobe made an error, that's not what i am mad about. I'm mad about all the ridiculous trash lies and xenophobic, arrogant bullshit being spewed by American NBA only fans in this thread.

[Bandito]

I'm not. I'm mad at these xenophobic clowns saying Hakeem is not foreign or that anyone that played high school or college basketball in USA is American, or that no basketball other than NBA games can be used to judge any basketball player.

Kobe made an error, that's not what i am mad about. I'm mad about all the ridiculous trash lies and xenophobic, arrogant bullshit being spewed by American NBA only fans in this thread.
Bro you are clearly mad because all I've seen in the first page was you insulting people when they said Hakeem is not foreign. He is obviously foreign, even though he is a naturalized american. Just make your point, stop insulting people and ignore them. Take a chill pill or something...

[Dr.J4ever]

Bodiroga is considered by most to be the best Serbian player eve , better than Divac and Stojakovic who was an MVP candidate. I'm not saying he would be better than Dirk who is my favorite foreign player and who I considered the best player in the world in the last years but I don't consider him best European player of all time.

What Kobe said is to me wrong not because of where he ranked Dirk, you can argue that he is right about that, but because where he ranked otheres. I'm sorry but Gasol 2nd best player , Manu better than Petrovic and Sabonis :facepalm. Does he know about Bodiroga, Galis, Schmidt, Kukoc ,Djordjevic and let's not talk about Korac who no one here except very few know about and we are talking about a player after who the league was named .

Bodiroga is interesting because if I remember correctly, he played a key role on that Serbian team, along with Divac, Stojako, that beat the US in the 2002 Worlds to eventually take the Gold after beating Manu and Argentina in the Gold Medal game. So okay, we can consider that.

As for the rest of those unknown players to most Americans, we will have to respectfully disagree. We consider the NBA the ultimate proving ground. Performances outside of the NBA cannot be on the same level as within the NBA, the world's best. Sorry.

[Andrew Wiggins]

Hakeem considers himself JORDANIAN, not American dumb ass.

no, i've read a recent interview by him and he says he considers himself nigerian but lives in jordan for religious reasons.

[Euroleague]

All I can say regarding this rant is this: Spanoulis " Who doesn't want to be in the NBA? The best players play there."

End of the story.

Spanoulis: "I saw the very best players the NBA has up close and they did not not impress me that much. To be honest, I do not really think that any of the players there are better than me."

End of the story.

[alexd]

Well, Alexd, I know you're not like Euroleague, and you can be reasoned with.
Where Kobe is coming from simply is from a perspective that players that prove themselves in the NBA are the best players. As one poster here said, do you honestly believe 1 NBA team can build around Bodiroga and he leads them to a decade of 50 plus wins and an NBA Title? ..... Really?

Saying, for example, that the NBA defense is a joke compared to Europe makes your arguments weaker, and gives you less credibility. We all know some of the best Euros have come to the NBA and struggled mightily. This is a long list led by Spanoulis, Jasikevicious, and many others. (Sorry Euroleague Nazi) . Rubio is not a "scrub" in the European style. Let's see how Spain's National team treats him in the Eurobasket. If he is not one of their prime time players, I will believe you. Okay?

Now, does this mean all basketball outside of the NBA doesn't count in your resume? By all means, no. Look at Manu. He's a sure fire HOF. Why? Even though he has not accomplished top of the line NBA All Star stats, you have to consider Manu's entire body of work. 3 NBA TItles, 1 Euroleague Title, Olympic Gold beating Team USA led by Duncan in 2004.

Even Sabonis made it to the HOF on the back of his FIBA career, but his NBA stint reaffirmed that he was one of the great centers of all time. Sadly, we never saw his best. So yes, FIBA play can make you a GOAT list type player,but an NBA stint makes it crystal clear.

Hope this enlightens you a little.

yes defense in the nba is a joke.by that i mean u have defensive sec in the paint violation,back to the basket violation.bigger arenas,and ofc illegal defense.in europe if u play with a team that can t shoot u can just camp in the paint.players like spanoulis and saras failed in the nba not because of the defense is better in nba.its because in the nba they have much much better athletes so its much more difficult for players that count on their skills and not their athleticism.rubio succeed in the nba because he has great court vision and he s young.spanoulis for example has very low iq and isn t a pass first pg like rubio.perhaps its better if say that in the nba you can t defend the way you can in europe.europe is somewhat like the nba in the 90s where you can hand check and camp in the paint.hope i made clear my point
don t get me wrong i love dirk.i still remember the 50 point 15 rebound game he had vs tmac but its hard to me to put him above players like sabonis.perhaps i m kinda biased because these players i grew up watching
and yeah for those who haven t seen bodiroga he could dominate games and be a force in the nba.
in regard to rubio he s considered a scrub in europe now.in europe if u can t shoot u better play top defense or be a great athlete or really really tall.rubio is none of those.he can play in the nba because of the pace of the game and the fact that illegal defense etc force the defense to leave open lanes and its easier to make assists if u are such a great passer as he is.ofc he ll be in team spain but in the last moments of a crutial game trust me he s going to be on the bench.and i root for the kid.i had him on fantasy :oldlol:

[Euroleague]

Bodiroga is interesting because if I remember correctly, he played a key role on that Serbian team, along with Divac, Stojako, that beat the US in the 2002 Worlds to eventually take the Gold after beating Manu and Argentina in the Gold Medal game. So okay, we can consider that.

As for the rest of those unknown players to most Americans, we will have to respectfully disagree. We consider the NBA the ultimate proving ground. Performances outside of the NBA cannot be on the same level as within the NBA, the world's best. Sorry.

And in Europe, American NBA only fans like you are considered a total joke that people laugh at and make fun of. Sorry.

[Euroleague]

no, i've read a recent interview by him and he says he considers himself nigerian but lives in jordan for religious reasons.

He considers himself Jordanian citizen, which is what we are talking about. Of course he considers himself Nigerian descent.

But the argument is over some Americans saying Hakeem is not foreign because he considers himself a US citizen, which really is not true.

Because he considers himself a Jordanian citizen.

Also, the religious reasons is a bit of a bullshit comment from Hakeem. Yes, it is due to religious reasons somewhat, but the truth is that Nigeria basically kicked him out of that country. So it's really more political than religious.

But the relevant issue is that a bunch of people here are claiming Hakeem claims himself as American citizen, which is not actually true.

As far as I know he only spends a month or two in the US to run his camps.

[Euroleague]

yes defense in the nba is a joke.by that i mean u have defensive sec in the paint violation,back to the basket violation.bigger arenas,and ofc illegal defense.in europe if u play with a team that can t shoot u can just camp in the paint.players like spanoulis and saras failed in the nba not because of the defense is better in nba.its because in the nba they have much much better athletes so its much more difficult for players that count on their skills and not their athleticism.rubio succeed in the nba because he has great court vision and he s young.spanoulis for example has very low iq and isn t a pass first pg like rubio.perhaps its better if say that in the nba you can t defend the way you can in europe.europe is somewhat like the nba in the 90s where you can hand check and camp in the paint.hope i made clear my point
don t get me wrong i love dirk.i still remember the 50 point 15 rebound game he had vs tmac but its hard to me to put him above players like sabonis.perhaps i m kinda biased because these players i grew up watching
and yeah for those who haven t seen bodiroga he could dominate games and be a force in the nba.
in regard to rubio he s considered a scrub in europe now.in europe if u can t shoot u better play top defense or be a great athlete or really really tall.rubio is none of those.he can play in the nba because of the pace of the game and the fact that illegal defense etc force the defense to leave open lanes and its easier to make assists if u are such a great passer as he is.ofc he ll be in team spain but in the last moments of a crutial game trust me he s going to be on the bench.and i root for the kid.i had him on fantasy :oldlol:

Spanoulis did not fail in the NBA. His coach refused to let him play. Spanoulis is more athletic than all kinds of NBA point guards. Saras did not fail in the NBA. He was a rotation player on a playoff team.

Don't start trolling like the NBA only fans are. You were in troll territory with those comments.

[Andrew Wiggins]

Spanoulis: "I saw the very best players the NBA has up close and they did not not impress me that much. To be honest, I do not really think that any of the players there are better than me."

End of the story.

link?

not a single quote appears verbatim to that online. it looks fabricated

[Andrew Wiggins]

yes defense in the nba is a joke.by that i mean u have defensive sec in the paint violation,back to the basket violation.bigger arenas,and ofc illegal defense.in europe if u play with a team that can t shoot u can just camp in the paint.players like spanoulis and saras failed in the nba not because of the defense is better in nba.its because in the nba they have much much better athletes so its much more difficult for players that count on their skills and not their athleticism.rubio succeed in the nba because he has great court vision and he s young.spanoulis for example has very low iq and isn t a pass first pg like rubio.perhaps its better if say that in the nba you can t defend the way you can in europe.europe is somewhat like the nba in the 90s where you can hand check and camp in the paint.hope i made clear my point
don t get me wrong i love dirk.i still remember the 50 point 15 rebound game he had vs tmac but its hard to me to put him above players like sabonis.perhaps i m kinda biased because these players i grew up watching
and yeah for those who haven t seen bodiroga he could dominate games and be a force in the nba.
in regard to rubio he s considered a scrub in europe now.in europe if u can t shoot u better play top defense or be a great athlete or really really tall.rubio is none of those.he can play in the nba because of the pace of the game and the fact that illegal defense etc force the defense to leave open lanes and its easier to make assists if u are such a great passer as he is.ofc he ll be in team spain but in the last moments of a crutial game trust me he s going to be on the bench.and i root for the kid.i had him on fantasy :oldlol:


true

good points

[Dr.J4ever]

yes defense in the nba is a joke.by that i mean u have defensive sec in the paint violation,back to the basket violation.bigger arenas,and ofc illegal defense.in europe if u play with a team that can t shoot u can just camp in the paint.players like spanoulis and saras failed in the nba not because of the defense is better in nba.its because in the nba they have much much better athletes so its much more difficult for players that count on their skills and not their athleticism.rubio succeed in the nba because he has great court vision and he s young.spanoulis for example has very low iq and isn t a pass first pg like rubio.perhaps its better if say that in the nba you can t defend the way you can in europe.europe is somewhat like the nba in the 90s where you can hand check and camp in the paint.hope i made clear my point
don t get me wrong i love dirk.i still remember the 50 point 15 rebound game he had vs tmac but its hard to me to put him above players like sabonis.perhaps i m kinda biased because these players i grew up watching
and yeah for those who haven t seen bodiroga he could dominate games and be a force in the nba.
in regard to rubio he s considered a scrub in europe now.in europe if u can t shoot u better play top defense or be a great athlete or really really tall.rubio is none of those.he can play in the nba because of the pace of the game and the fact that illegal defense etc force the defense to leave open lanes and its easier to make assists if u are such a great passer as he is.ofc he ll be in team spain but in the last moments of a crutial game trust me he s going to be on the bench.and i root for the kid.i had him on fantasy :oldlol:


Well, if I understand correctly, basically what you're saying is that the FIBA game is different than the NBA game. And yes, I agree with this. It takes a different skill set to succeed in FIBA than the NBA. This is true. I agree with the possible reasons Spanoulis failed in the NBA. Saras though is a high IQ guy, but failed miserably in the NBA, especially on the defensive end.

BTW, wasn't Rubio a Defensive Player of the Year or something in the ACB? I believe I saw this somewhere. The guy has a ton of awards, and if they were all just "hyped" or fakes, I don't Know. It seems a bunch of people really think the world of him in Europe. I know he degenerated towards end of his Euro stint, but he's still in the National Team of Spain, which is the 2nd best team in the world. Right? That has to count for something.

[Dr.J4ever]

link?

not a single quote appears verbatim to that online. it looks fabricated

It is fabricated by the Nazi.

[alexd]

Well, if I understand correctly, basically what you're saying is that the FIBA game is different than the NBA game. And yes, I agree with this. It takes a different skill set to succeed in FIBA than the NBA. This is true. I agree with the possible reasons Spanoulis failed in the NBA. Saras though is a high IQ guy, but failed miserably in the NBA, especially on the defensive end.

BTW, wasn't Rubio a Defensive Player of the Year or something in the ACB? I believe I saw this somewhere. The guy has a ton of awards, and if they were all just "hyped" or fakes, I don't Know. It seems a bunch of people really think the world of him in Europe. I know he degenerated towards end of his Euro stint, but he's still in the National Team of Spain, which is the 2nd best team in the world. Right? That has to count for something.

saras is high iq and unbelievable shooter especially from mid range but he cant defend to save his life.he was the best pnr pg in europe for years.
Rubio isn t that great of a defender.he won t shut someone down.but he ll get many steals.i m more of a thibs defensive mind.i prefer to lock someone down than attempt steals.he is a great point guard but has flaws.he can t score on will.he has no shooting.as of now he s great to attract people and have that wow factor.he s not a player you want to win championships.perhaps he ll get better and i hope he is.but he made the right call to go to the nba cause here in europe they would exploit his shooting slumps and leave him open and clog the lane and other players.to be honest he played much better than i thought he would.timberwolves are a completely different team with him

[Dr.J4ever]

Also, Alexd, FIBA, please address this. How can the Spanish ACB vote that Rubio was their to PG in 2008 and 2010? Ask them because this is exactly what they did. See, whether it was hype or not, you simply can't dismiss Rubio because a lot of other Euros believe he was a good to great player in Europe.

After all, he's still on the National Team of Spain, the world's 2nd best program.

[Dr.J4ever]

TYPO..... I meant TOP PG in 2008 and 2010 in the ACB, arguably Europe's toughest domestic league.

[alexd]

Also, Alexd, FIBA, please address this. How can the Spanish ACB vote that Rubio was their to PG in 2008 and 2010? Ask them because this is exactly what they did. See, whether it was hype or not, you simply can't dismiss Rubio because a lot of other Euros believe he was a good to great player in Europe.

After all, he's still on the National Team of Spain, the world's 2nd best program.

keep in mind that he started playing at the age of 16.ofc they would promote him.but he s been the same for the last 3 years.he hasn t developed.a jason kidd style player can t thrive in european basketball.but he can in the nba.if u want to see the best point guard of the past decade look at diamantidis.he eats rubio for breakfast.some may also mention papaloukas but he actually is a 6.6 ft slower rubio.i mean u play basketball at least 15 years.how u don t develop a decent shooting?not even great just decent

[Dr.J4ever]

keep in mind that he started playing at the age of 16.ofc they would promote him.but he s been the same for the last 3 years.he hasn t developed.a jason kidd style player can t thrive in european basketball.but he can in the nba.if u want to see the best point guard of the past decade look at diamantidis.he eats rubio for breakfast.some may also mention papaloukas but he actually is a 6.6 ft slower rubio.i mean u play basketball at least 15 years.how u don t develop a decent shooting?not even great just decent

I agree with most of what you said, except about Kidd.. Kidd developed his spot up jump shot later in his career.. He sank some wide open jumpers for the Mavs at crucial points in the NBA Finals a couple years ago.. With rubio, yes, he is not a scoring PG like D. Rose, for example, but that's okay with me. I'm a traditionalist. If you've ever heard of Maurice Cheeks, he's my type of PG.

I like the unselfish, defensively sound PG. Rubio will need to improve his shooting, but if he does, his leadership skills and charisma, and overall game is capable, I think(a big if), of lifting a team to the NBA Title. That's how high I think of Rubio.

We will see. I could be wrong.

[Rooster]

Spanoulis did not fail in the NBA. His coach refused to let him play. Spanoulis is more athletic than all kinds of NBA point guards. Saras did not fail in the NBA. He was a rotation player on a playoff team.

Don't start trolling like the NBA only fans are. You were in troll territory with those comments.

Yes when he played more than 20 minutes:oldlol:

He turnover over the ball

And bricked shot after shot:oldlol:

How can he get minutes

If he he can't shoot at their scrimmages and practice :oldlol:

[Fiba basketball]

Also, Alexd, FIBA, please address this. How can the Spanish ACB vote that Rubio was their to PG in 2008 and 2010? Ask them because this is exactly what they did. See, whether it was hype or not, you simply can't dismiss Rubio because a lot of other Euros believe he was a good to great player in Europe.

After all, he's still on the National Team of Spain, the world's 2nd best program.

Look if you don't belive me go to some forums about international basketball and ask there.

[eklip]

He did. He had much better teammates in general. But also, Dirk did not play that well for Germany once European teams started to figure his game out. The last few years he played with Germany, Dirk was not very good.

He wasn't great in 2008 and 2011 with Germany, but he was still on a similar level to Gasol. I don't think it had anything to do with European teams figuring his game out. I'm German, so I watched most of Dirk's international games.

Here is a short summery (Link (http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/rpp//q/dirk%20nowitzki/pid//_//players.html)):
2001 EC: 28.7 ppg (1.), 9.1 rpg (3.) -> Germany 4th
2002 WC: 24 ppg (1.), 8.2 rpg (5.) -> Germany 3rd, Dirk MVP
2003 EC: 22.5 ppg (3.), 6.3 rpg ... -> Germany 9th (The main story in Germany was Dirk's foot injury which he suffered in a preparation game.)
2005 EC: 26.1 ppg (1.), 10.6 rpg (2.) -> Germany 2nd, Dirk MVP
2006 WC: 23.2 ppg (2.), 9.2 rpg (4.) -> Germany 8th
2007 EC: 24.0 ppg (1.), 8.7 rpg (2.) -> Germany 5th
2008 Olympic Qualifying Tournament: 26.6 (1.), 8.2 (7.) -> Germany 3rd and qualified (felt almost like an a won world championship for German basketball fans, because the team was so bad)
2008 Olympic Games: 17 ppg 8.4 rpg -> Germany 10th
2009 EC: skipped by Dirk-> Germany 11th
2010 WC: skipped by Dirk -> Germany didn't advance out of the group (behind Serbia, Australia, Argentina, Angola)
2011 EC: 19.5 ppg (4.), 6,6 rpg (8.) -> Germany 9th (Dirk said that the knee bothered him after his championship run, he also had problems with his knee in the next two NBA seasons resulting in a surgery)

Pau (http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/rpp//q/Pau%20GASOL/pid/28569/_//players.html) was better 2003, 2008 and 2011 and that's it. Dirk's performances in international tournaments are definitely not a reason why he shouldn't be the considered as the best ever European player. Pau would have probably achieved much less with Dirk's teammates.

It will be interesting to see if Dirk will play in the 2015 European Championship. I think he would like to qualify for Rio 2016.

Peja also said that Dirk is the best European player ever in an German interview (http://www.spox.com/de/sport/ussport/nba/1210/Artikel/peja-stojakovic-interview-sacramento-kings-chris-webber-dirk-nowitzki-drazen-petrovic.html):

[QUOTE]SPOX: Sie begleiteten die Mavs w

[Kiddlovesnets]

Pau Gasol says hi.

[Jon_Koncak]

Bodiroga is interesting because if I remember correctly, he played a key role on that Serbian team, along with Divac, Stojako, that beat the US in the 2002 Worlds to eventually take the Gold after beating Manu and Argentina in the Gold Medal game. So okay, we can consider that.
.

Bodiroga had 9 points in that game on 1/7 fgs.he was pretty much a non factor.Bodiroga fans are the worst,taking advantage of the fact that 99% of americans have never heard of him,have created this mythical player who would have dominated NBA if he wanted but for some reason no NBA team ever showed interest in him.:lol

Bodiroga better than Dirk,only thing to do is laugh.