Videos on a number of players who I dont believe....

[Kblaze8855]

....give the least semblance of a ****.


Nick Van Exel up first.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jBmr9yJKvY


He and 5 others I have in mind are among the best examples of a rather important basketball quality that people seem torn about.

For all the complaining about shot selection of a lot of guys...we will all still watch a Lebron or a KG in his prime and wonder why they arent making an effort to take over on offense when they clearly could.

Both of them are NBA champions so in the end it doesnt much matter....but fact remains...it gets discussed.

This recent trend of stars(Bron, Wade, and KD for example) talking about how much they care about shooting percentage and all...

Some players really would be much more dangerous if they just didnt care. If they had the Van exel/Jennings "**** it" quality about them.

Among the most "**** it...." players of all time is Kobe. I wont bother with a video on him since ive made like...4-5...and so have the 200 people who also do these things. Nobody needs to see another.

I had guys like Nick and some others I wont mention just yet in mind.

Guys who seemed to bask in the defiance of a transition three or two move too many isolation that ends in a floater that is never a good shot.

These players are often hated on but I do respect the confidence.

If I were building players from scratch id love a "**** it...." rating. For my superstar id want it at least around an 80.

Role players should be cautious. Superstars need a little "Its my world...." to them in most cases.

To be clear I dont consider it the exact same as confidence. Steve Nash is confident. KEvin Durant too. But they arent "**** it then......" players. all such players arent even scorers. Lindsey Hunter in his prime...total "**** it" player. Darrell Armstrong as well. Probably rondo too even with the stat padding.

Ive been drinking and I can see how this might be confusing so im gonna try to gauge your understanding of what im talking about by giving you 10 players. On a scale of 1(Kwame Brown on the Lakers) to 10(Gilbert Arenas on a hot streak vs a coach who cut him from the olympic team) rank a few or all as far as.....your understanding of what im getting at.



Dirk
Russell Westbrook
Lebron
Dwight Howard
Mike Miller
Joakim Noah
Tyreke Evans
Pau Gasol
Stephon Curry
Manu

Would you say anyone there ever hit the Gilbert level of not giving a ****?

And if you could add or remove this trait to your teams franchise player...what adjustment would you make?

I think Rose gives an appropriately tiny portion of a ****. I might want to dial it back from the 9 or so id give him to an 8 if we get a solid and healthy shot creator to pair with him for a while. But as constructed...hes not supposed to give a ****.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQLEk4ov9dQ

natE robinson #2



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77deuyV1t4

Rick barry #3

[keep-itreal]

Jason Terry comes to mind.

that n999a don't give a **** and shoots a 3 right in Lebron's face in the finals.

[Quizno]

awesome video. nick van exel really was the shit back in the day

hey kblaze, didn't you make a mix of the mid-late 90s lakers? with eddie jones, nick, shaq and young kobe? i think the theme of the video was basically a lakers team that didn't give a **** and played with an attitude haha. which is really how it was. it was one of my favorite NBA mixes

[Kblaze8855]

Here that is :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JNNDskWNGg


They didnt give a damn what the coach said, what the gameplan was, or what the fundamental play should be. You have Nick out there throwing floaters to the rafters, lobs from halfcourt, shoving refs, loudly arguing with the coach on national TV with Shaq dunking on guys and shoving them out of bounds then acting suprised when they get up and throw the ball at him. Meanwhile Kobe was in full "Turn my swag on" mode breaking ankles, jumping up and stealing lobs clearly thrown to Eddie Jones, and already disregarding Shaq now and then to go one on one despite shooting 42 and 43% his first 2 years. And Eddie? Im sure he didnt mean it to be insulting but some of the things he did were just rude. This guy came down the court on the break and took off from a step inside the 3 point line for a layup...which he made. Not the Ft line. He took off from about one step past the 3 point line and put it in. The **** is that? And then of course the famous dunk on Glen Robinson from the general area of the FT line. This guy was just getting in the vicinity of the paint and taking off with no regard for human life.

That was such a lovable team but they were also so easy to hate. They were good for the NBA though. Id swap out the current lakers for them in a second. Even knowing the 09 Lakers won it all I think the 98 Lakers would be better if only for Shaq. By potential....one night? They might be as talented as any team ever. That team had so many weapons...guys who could win the game on their own...I think they could matchup with any team ever...on one night. Over 7 games a great team destroys them but them at their best could play with anyone to ever step on the court.

If they were not the rudest most vicious team of all time...who was? The 80s Celtics were up there. They didnt care if you lived or died. Badboys of course. The 88-90 Knicks. mark Jackson had them at a high level of not giving a ****. But there are not many who can stand with this team from a lack of human decency standpoint.

[COnDEMnED]

Thanks for the video, this was my favorite player on the Lakers when I was growing up.

[fpliii]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Other than the 98 Lakers, what other **** you teams come to mind?

[Quizno]

Here that is :
thanks man, i appreciate it. 90s/early 00s shaq my GOD. especially 90s shaq (even though early 00s shaq was better) with that athleticism. and kobe's swag was really on some next level shit :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

Off the top of my head...

Late 80s Mavs
The 96 Bulls
The LJ/Zo Hornets
The nets with Kenny and Coleman
The 95 Bullets
The Hornets team with I think Baron, Eddie Robinson, and Ricky Davis

Most of the Ewing era Knicks.

Lot of good "**** it" teams.

[Kblaze8855]

Looking for the 98 video once I stumbled across a blog entry on it:



Set to Slaughterhouse’s “Sound Off”, this tribute to “Shaq, Kobe, Eddie, and Nick”, “the Fantastic Four” is all about one raw, disrespectful team. Each of the four gets their own “verse” during which their best plays are highlighted, and the verses fit perfectly. Shaq gets Royce Da 5’9″, “I am the General, Bow Now/ **** Salutin!”. Kobe, set to Joell Ortiz: “I pour sweat when I perform shows /What I record goes down as the best, but the vets won’t let that torch go /Y’all could keep it, they got flashlights now.” Perfect for Kobe, at that age when he was still #8, still new to the league, and angrily trying to make his mark as the Next Big Thing.

And Nick Van Exel gets this, as he’s shoving a ref in an incident that showcases some of his (in)famous swagger: “My one goal’s to astonish/Tell the President, VP, notify the Congress/They say I’m arrogant, pompous, but I’m honest.” Perfect. Watch this video, then watch it again. K-Blaze is a pure genius.


While the genius thing is pushing it I am glad to know someone understands.

Its not random music. Its there because it makes sense. I dont always even like the songs.

They just have to make sense......

First time I heard that song I thought "Lakers". The Ortiz verse might be the most Young Kobeish words ever put to record.

[Legends66NBA7]

T-Mac and Vince are players that can hit the 10 (Gilbert) at any given time.

[Quizno]

Looking for the 98 video once I stumbled across a blog entry on it:





While the genius thing is pushing it I am glad to know someone understands.

Its not random music. Its there because it makes sense. I dont always even like the songs.

They just have to make sense......

First time I heard that song I thought "Lakers". The Ortiz verse might be the most Young Kobeish words ever put to record.
i didn't catch that at all, that is really good stuff

[Geriatric]

Some names that come to mind:

Allen Iverson
Michael Adams (Nuggets days)
Latrell Sprewell
Vernon Maxwell

[BoutPractice]

"**** it" players are great to have when they're hot.

I'm not sure I'd want my team's superstar to be like that - I prefer a Duncan or Dirk who you consistently can get the ball to down the stretch, get the hell out of the way AND still expect to turn every possession into a good shot opportunity.

I do love a sixth man with that attitude (Jason Terry, Manu Ginobili, etc.), though. They make the game so much more exciting... Manu in particular is just boss, he plays for one of the strictest coaches in the league and still manages to do his thing. Tied in the fourth with one minute left, he'll jack up a 3 with 18 seconds in the shot clock, go for a wild drive complete with behind-the-back dribble and Eurostep, or jump in the air to make a no-look pass... With him you just never know if he's going to win or lose you the game. He's the ultimate joker. Popovich summed it up best when he talked about wanting to trade him on the spot, than cook him breakfast in the span of a few seconds.

Some role players too, like Eddie House, who never met a 3 he didn't like.

In fact if I'm being honest I also love seeing stars do this. Just not on my team. Arenas was pure popcorn, he'd take the most ridiculous 3s, and the worst part is they'd actually go in... Antoine Walker and his 4s.

Current players that come to mind with a "don't give a ****" attitude:
Kobe
Westbrook
Curry when he's feeling it
Gino
Terry
Crawford
JR
McGee
Cousins

[sportjames23]

Off the top of my head...

Late 80s Mavs
The 96 Bulls
The LJ/Zo Hornets
The nets with Kenny and Coleman
The 95 Bullets
The Hornets team with I think Baron, Eddie Robinson, and Ricky Davis

Most of the Ewing era Knicks.

Lot of good "**** it" teams.


Kblaze back on my Christmas list with this thread.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[ILLsmak]

....give the least semblance of a ****.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jBmr9yJKvY


He and 5 others I have in mind are among the best examples of a rather important basketball quality that people seem torn about.

For all the complaining about shot selection of a lot of guys...we will all still watch a Lebron or a KG in his prime and wonder why they arent making an effort to take over on offense when they clearly could.

Both of them are NBA champions so in the end it doesnt much matter....but fact remains...it gets discussed.

This recent trend of stars(Bron, Wade, and KD for example) talking about how much they care about shooting percentage and all...

Some players really would be much more dangerous if they just didnt care. If they had the Van exel/Jennings "**** it" quality about them.

Among the most "**** it...." players of all time is Kobe. I wont bother with a video on him since ive made like...4-5...and so have the 200 people who also do these things. Nobody needs to see another.

I had guys like Nick and some others I wont mention just yet in mind.

Guys who seemed to bask in the defiance of a transition three or two move too many isolation that ends in a floater that is never a good shot.

These players are often hated on but I do respect the confidence.

If I were building players from scratch id love a "**** it...." rating. For my superstar id want it at least around an 80.

Role players should be cautious. Superstars need a little "Its my world...." to them in most cases.

To be clear I dont consider it the exact same as confidence. Steve Nash is confident. KEvin Durant too. But they arent "**** it then......" players. all such players arent even scorers. Lindsey Hunter in his prime...total "**** it" player. Darrell Armstrong as well. Probably rondo too even with the stat padding.

Ive been drinking and I can see how this might be confusing so im gonna try to gauge your understanding of what im talking about by giving you 10 players. On a scale of 1(Kwame Brown on the Lakers) to 10(Gilbert Arenas on a hot streak vs a coach who cut him from the olympic team) rank a few or all as far as.....your understanding of what im getting at.



Dirk
Russell Westbrook
Lebron
Dwight Howard
Mike Miller
Joakim Noah
Tyreke Evans
Pau Gasol
Stephon Curry
Manu

Would you say anyone there ever hit the Gilbert level of not giving a ****?

And if you could add or remove this trait to your teams franchise player...what adjustment would you make?

I think Rose gives an appropriately tiny portion of a ****. I might want to dial it back from the 9 or so id give him to an 8 if we get a solid and healthy shot creator to pair with him for a while. But as constructed...hes not supposed to give a ****.

I like that Nick didn't give a **** but you should give a **** when you are getting killed. I dunno if he didn't give a **** with how he shit the bed vs Stockton in the playoffs...

-Smak

[wang4three]

Nick was the best. Spent the early years of my basketball career trying to mimic his dribble moves, head fakes, and eye fakes. Gah, he was so fun to watch. Even spent a year of middle school basketball shooting from way behind the free-throw line like him.

[raiderfan19]

Antoine walker in the middle of his career should be up there. He wasn't even a good shooter and he'd jack up shots from 30 feet for no particular reason.(also people forget how good he was when he was young) Ben Gordon was up there for a non superstar. Nate Robinson is up there. Jamal Crawford is to me the most obvious example of a non superstar version of this. Ai was this but a little less than I think people think. Young Kerry stackhouse though was absolutely this way.

[raiderfan19]

Oh yeah and tmac after he became a super star and before he broke down was right there with arenas.

[To4]

i remember when i was a kid, i tried to mimic NVE freethrow,,, airballed it everytime.. haha :lol

[DKLaker]

Nick is one of my all-time favorite Lakers, I loved watching this clip, dude was so clutch!!!! If only he had made it to the Phil Jackson era on the team :(

[Kblaze8855]

I decided to just put all of the videos/topics in one to not clutter things up with the same basic topic. So...#2...who represents a different breed of these players:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQLEk4ov9dQ

Nate robinson.

Yes ive decided that players who dont give a **** have breeds. nate is of the Littleman complex mold.

Nick id say was the Something to prove/They said id never make it breed. Gilbert Arenas is also of that breed.

Nate though?

Id say Nate, AI, and JJ Barea fall into this breed. Guys who arent so much selfish as....out to prove a point. Play hard as hell and go right at the giants.

An easy to understand breed.

The two other breeds I plan to cover are the

"He thinks hes a lot better than he is" breed and the "He thinks he works harder than everyone else and feels entitled to take these shots" breed.

Feel free to guess who I have in mind for each.

[Kblaze8855]

And let me add:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4087/naterobinson.gif

[BoutPractice]

And let me add:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4087/naterobinson.gif
This still stands to me as the single most hilarious gif in NBA history :oldlol:

[Peteballa]

Awesome videos. One current role player who really doesn't give a ****: Mario Chalmers. Dude plays with the mindset like he is the best player in the NBA

[HylianNightmare]

Steve Francis

[ProfessorMurder]

Jason Williams' Kings days.

[Rubio2Gasol]

JR Smith = He thinks he's alot better than he is.

[Dro]

Damn...great thread bro...

Some others....is Reggie Miller a ****it player? I don't know but I think he might qualify...Wasn't scared to pullup for a DEEP 3, late in the game....Or pullup for 3's on transition...Didn't really matter if he was open, it was a rhythm shot for him. What about Chuck Person? He wasn't nicknamed the rifleman for nothing.

Vernon Maxwell?
I almost want to add John Starks to this list but I'm not sure...
Vinnie Johnson?
J.R. Smith HAS to be on this list...
Hell, Carmelo might make this list with his horrible shot selection...

[Jacks3]

Difference is that Kobe is a extraordinarily, insanely talented and skilled player who has maintained excellent efficiency throughout his career.

Rest of these guys are scrubs.

Insulting.

:facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

Only if you are looking for one.

If Kobe isnt a "**** it..." type player nobody has ever been. You can take it as an insult if you wish. Nothing I said suggests I think it is though.

I said my favorite player is a 9 out of 10 if I rated it but you think I think its a bad thing?

[Kblaze8855]

A comment on youtube in the NVE one has me wondering...

You think that ref flopped with Nick pushed him?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4749938/nickshovesref-o.gif

Kinda choppy but still...it seems clear he wasnt hit that hard. Refs dont often get the chance to flop. He probably couldnt help himself.

[rhowen4]

Dirk: 7
Russell Westbrook: 8 to 9
Lebron: 6 to 7
Dwight Howard: 5
Mike Miller: 7?
Joakim Noah: 7?
Tyreke Evans: 7
Pau Gasol: 3
Stephen Curry: 7 to 8
Manu: 8 to 9

maybe ratings across the board are inflated

PS around 7 might be ideal for a superstar/franchise player. i think 9-10 is too volatile. exceptions to the rule of course.

[Twiens]

This thread got me thinking about the Hibachi look away game-winner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upjWBobZlns

So badass


And.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOBdik__FgI

[Living Being]

Latrell Sprewell - 10

[nightprowler10]

Great thread. Surely Ray Allen must be an 8 or 9?

[The Macho Man]

Bynum doesn't give a fvk about anything on or off the court

[#number6ix#]

Gilbert Arenas is one of my favorite players of all-time so I'll nominate a guy of a similar mold JAMES HARDEN!!! he gives zero ****s...

Also Jordan Crawford and Norris Cole

[Dro]

Difference is that Kobe is a extraordinarily, insanely talented and skilled player who has maintained excellent efficiency throughout his career.

Rest of these guys are scrubs.

Insulting.

:facepalm
stan alerted....:bowdown:

[hangintheair]

No love for Earl Boykins..

[hateraid]

Damn...great thread bro...

Some others....is Reggie Miller a ****it player? I don't know but I think he might qualify...Wasn't scared to pullup for a DEEP 3, late in the game....Or pullup for 3's on transition...Didn't really matter if he was open, it was a rhythm shot for him. What about Chuck Person? He wasn't nicknamed the rifleman for nothing.

Vernon Maxwell?
I almost want to add John Starks to this list but I'm not sure...
Vinnie Johnson?
J.R. Smith HAS to be on this list...
Hell, Carmelo might make this list with his horrible shot selection...

Chuck Person was the first name that came to mind

Barkley too. Auburn screams ****it

[Horde of Temujin]

I liked Eddie House when he was on the Clips.
These guys are great, I like the term "Irrational confidence guys" that Bill Simmons uses. Im not sure if he coined it.

[mrpibb]

I liked Eddie House when he was on the Clips.
These guys are great, I like the term "Irrational confidence guys" that Bill Simmons uses. Im not sure if he coined it.

It's certainly more family-friendly than "**** it guys."

[Kblaze8855]

But its not all irrational. In many cases its exactly the approach they should be taking.

[NickTheQuick31]

Hey KBlaze, you stole a bunch of those NVE clips from the video's I uploaded on my Van Exel channel!

All good, Im not mad at people who use them to help show how fun Nick was to watch in his prime.

Oh and the Ref defiantly flopped, Nick was trying to yank his arm away from the equipment manager trying to hold him back.

[Psileas]

Joe Barely Cares.
I think a player with this nickname deserves his own mention.

[guy]

Only 1 mention of AI?

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Joe Barely Cares.
I think a player with this nickname deserves his own mention.

Unfortunately for his teams, he cared enough to cash his checks.

[Kblaze8855]

Hey KBlaze, you stole a bunch of those NVE clips from the video's I uploaded on my Van Exel channel!

All good, Im not mad at people who use them to help show how fun Nick was to watch in his prime.

Oh and the Ref defiantly flopped, Nick was trying to yank his arm away from the equipment manager trying to hold him back.

You the guy nick wished a happy birthday too?

Anyway I couldnt say where all of it came from. There were at least 20 videos in my nick folder. NBA action segments(I have every 96 and 97 NBa action). Top 10s. Inside stuff segments. Interviews with Nash and Nick. His beyond the glory. Interview with Shaq and West on Nick leaving. A talk with Antionio Mcdyess about he and Nick. Im sure some was from your channel but I have too much footage on everyone to remember it all.

I just save everything that catches my eye. I have external hard drives from when the NBA still uploaded AVIs.

[LT Ice Cream]

No mention of the '07 Warriors? Monta Ellis, Al Hurrington, and Cap'n Jack all on the same run and gun team? Oh yeah J-Rich too. That was the very definition of WE DON'T GIVE A ****

[eurobum]

Thanks, Blaze. Loving the aspect ratio.

[Kblaze8855]

A discussion earlier brought someone to mind who...after some thought....just might beat out Kobe for the player who gave the least number of ****s per game on average. Perhaps the most confident, "get mine", "Forget the last shot" player in the history of the game....

Mr. Rick Barry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77deuyV1t4

Not so much a highlight video as...just showing how he played as best I can.

I will explain my choice of him as the #1 shortly. My food is ready......and the upload was faster than I expected.

[Kblaze8855]

Ok...Rick Barry.

He scored like 38 a game in college...and came into the NBA and put up 26 and 36ppg his first two years. Shot 29 times a game. If you think thats an era thing everyone did...oscar robertson was second with 21.5. Exactly the same as Kobe in 2012. So Barry was out ahead of his peers.

Then went to the ABa and put up 34ppg....but lets put that aside for now.

Im gonna go back to his 36ppg last NBA season before leaving for a moment.

Chucking or not he led a great team...and he took 33 shots a game in the 67 playoffs.

In the finals it got out of hand...

He went 3-16...in the FIRST QUARTER of his first finals game.

Finished that game 15-43

Had 37/8/7.

Game 2 he went 10-28 and they lost by 30 as he scored 30 points.

Game 3 is where the shit hit the fan....

Since shooting a lot wasnt working Barry decided to shoot...a whole ****ing lot.

So he comes out and drops 17 in the first quarter on 17 shot attempts. finishes the game with 55 points on 22-48 shooting with 19FTA. but in an odd turn...the best FT shooter ever only went 11 of 19. He should have the playoff scoring record really. Anyway....they won. Validating his evil ways.

So next game he has what...if the legends are true...may be the most selfish game in history.

Barry in game 4 got 59 touches.

He took 43 shots.

Had 5 assists.

Several turnovers on fouls...

And supposedly only passed the ball 11 times.

On 59 touches. he passed it back to someone 11 times. 5 of those were assists to a no doubt wide open teammate demanding the ball.

Anyway he had 41 points on 43 shots.

You see how this is going. Over the next/final two games he took 75 shots. Scored 80 points.

Ignoring for a moment how destroyed he would be by modern fans for that performance....

Imagine the balls you need to come take 48 shots. Probably no less than 35-38 straight up long jumpers. If you watch the video you see hes not getting gimmes. hes wetting jumper after jumper from 15-20 feet.

The game he passed 11 of 59 touches would be a marvel to behold.

To his credit...clearly someone was ok with it. They rode him all year and pushed him t othe limit when they got there.

He proved capable of supporting a cast of role players who need him to score...but still play good ball. He did win the title in 75 in a huge upset with no all star teammates. He still scored his ass off(28 a game those playoffs) but he did it all. He was a 31ppg scorer, got 3 steals a game, and was 5th in assists(He was 5th to 8th 6 years in a row).

By most accounts he was a dick...but he led 2 finals team, and I think 2 other teams to game 7s of the WCF, won it all, was a finals MVP, and was a top 2-3 forward in the world for 10 years. All NBA or ABA first team 10 years straight aside from when he had to sit out due to a court ruling when he first left for the ABA.

He shot sooooooooooooo sooooooooo much...but it worked.

But if he had less of a "**** it" mentality day to day perhaps the media doesnt hate him and he gets the credit due. Instead...hes the other guy.

Never getting elite ranking even if players at the time did give it to him. I read Bill sharman saying Barry was the greatest offensive forward ever.

But nobody rememberes or gives a shit.

Sometimes...you need to not give a **** to be great....but not giving a **** hurts peoples opinion of you. Here he is being too real for his own good and going in on Lebron James:




"His shot, first and foremost, because I think that's where it all comes down to. If you don't have confidence in your shot, it destroys the rest of your game...Then, little nuances, facing up, learning how to be the guy learning to use your first dribble to go by instead of everything off the dribble...learning how to use screens probably, then of course the coach running more plays for him where he can run off double and triple staggered screens, learning to curl it properly, learning how to do the little things in the game which, unfortunately, have not been taught to him, which I don't blame him for. I blame the people who have coached him over the years. To have a talent like this and to not maximize the full potential of this talent is inexcusable and reprehensible to me and the coaches who have had him should be ashamed of themselves."

These days a guy who speaks his mind like barry would be a much bigger star.

Talk shit like Arenas but back it up at a higher rate.

[Jacks3]

Such ignorance. "**** it" players don't put up 26/5/5/2/56% TS/112 ORTG for their careers over 17 seasons, or win 5 rings, or put up the BEST +/- offensive numbers of the 00's. or establsih themselves as one of the best non-PG passers/play-makers ever. such ignorance. :facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

Oh and he had a 64 point game and only took 4fts.

Imagine that...just,,,,making 30 shots.

I bet 26 of them were midrange jumpers.

[Straight_Ballin]

Anthony Peeler just didn't give a ****!

[Kblaze8855]

Thank you for your emotions and abbreviated formula numbers.... but ive seen Kobe Bryant play.

THe man does not give a ****. And he would probably tell you himself. Im reasonably sure ive seen him say "I dont give a shit" in regards to big shots.

He plays that way all the time. Hes one of the most fearless people in NBA history and you act like im insulting him by saying so.

[Jacks3]

you are insulting him but putting his name in the same sentence as some of these scrubs. kobe is one of the smartest, most cerebral, and craftiest players players in history. he reads defenses in a way few players in history have. obviously you haven't watched him play. :facepalm

comparing him to these dumbass players. :facepalm

[Graviton]

you are insulting him but putting his name in the same sentence as some of these scrubs. kobe is one of the smartest, most cerebral, and craftiest players players in history. he reads defenses in a way few players in history have. obviously you haven't watched him play. :facepalm

comparing him to these dumbass players. :facepalm
http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/attachments/mens-basketball/19123d1363451050-excited-selection-sunday-point_over_your_head.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

Oh so...everyone who shares a personality trait is on the same level as a player? That what you are....taking this to mean?

Fearless/non giving a **** people arent all on the same level any more than unselfish players or players who statpad or want to be liked.

Stop finding insults where none exist.

[Droid101]

kblaze is a bad poster. He tries way too hard.

Terrible.

[NickTheQuick31]

KBlaze, Yeah Im the short white guy at the end of the vids and the guy Nick wished happy birthday too.

Basically have collected games featuring Nick for years, I probably have around 350 total. Considering I live in Australia 99% of his games were never televised here so its been some task tracking all those games down.

A relative of Nick's contacted me after seeing my website which lists every Van Exel game I own on DVD. The relative asked for copies of the games in return for $, but how could I charge NVE money? Instead Nick sent me a bunch of Hawks gear, recorded the video for my 30th birthday party is sending me a bunch of signed stuff from himself and other Hawks players. Still waiting for the autographed stuff to arrive, apparently he has yet to send it off.

Id love to get some of the footage you talked about, if you can email me, my email address is on my webpage here:

http://bradssportgames.weebly.com

[ProfessorMurder]

KBlaze, Yeah Im the short white guy at the end of the vids and the guy Nick wished happy birthday too.

Basically have collected games featuring Nick for years, I probably have around 350 total. Considering I live in Australia 99% of his games were never televised here so its been some task tracking all those games down.

A relative of Nick's contacted me after seeing my website which lists every Van Exel game I own on DVD. The relative asked for copies of the games in return for $, but how could I charge NVE money? Instead Nick sent me a bunch of Hawks gear, recorded the video for my 30th birthday party is sending me a bunch of signed stuff from himself and other Hawks players. Still waiting for the autographed stuff to arrive, apparently he has yet to send it off.

Id love to get some of the footage you talked about, if you can email me, my email address is on my webpage here:

http://bradssportgames.weebly.com

That's cool man. You're definitely a true fan :cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

Ill see what I can get you. I know he has a few features on the 96 NBA action around the time Magic returned. But I never even look up half wha I probably have when I do these. Especially for a short one and not one of the 30-45 minutes career mixes which I almost never do.



kblaze is a bad poster. He tries way too hard.

Terrible.



I'll care a bit less in the future. Just for you.

[SpanishACB]

it's rich to assume it's all about an "i don't care" attitude.

It's not.

It's just idiots with talent. When a bad play turns good, it's always exciting, but it's only circumstantial.

It's not that they have extreme confidence, it's that they're stupid enough that they cannot value the risk-reward in real time, they take guesses.

If Kobe was a smart person, non deluded and with proper perspective, he would have won more or would have won more clearly. Just because he has enough talent and delusion to cover up for his bad decision making (bad decisions turning good just because the ball hits net) doesn't mean he play like he doesn't care. He ain't got the IQ to do something else.

[Psileas]

Oh and he had a 64 point game and only took 4fts.

Imagine that...just,,,,making 30 shots.

I bet 26 of them were midrange jumpers.

As a sidenote, this was almost a triple-double as well. He got 64/10/9 and 5+ steals.

But he was just a bizarre character. You never knew when he would take 30-40 shots and when he'd give you a no-show.
Look at these lines:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barryri01/gamelog/1978/

This is a player who averages 23.1 ppg, yet, he has almost 20 games below 15 points, 4 games below 10, including one when he got 2, while commiting 6 fouls (!) for the first and only time in the season, then he gets 6 40-pointers, including 2 50-pointers.

In his first 15 games alone:
Game 1: 6 points
Game 4: 44 points
Game 7: 51 points
Game 10: 13 points
Game 12: 45 points
Game 14: 14 points

And the rest of his seasons weren't dramatically different.

[artificial]

Ok...Rick Barry.

He scored like 38 a game in college...and came into the NBA and put up 26 and 36ppg his first two years. Shot 29 times a game. If you think thats an era thing everyone did...oscar robertson was second with 21.5. Exactly the same as Kobe in 2012. So Barry was out ahead of his peers.

Then went to the ABa and put up 34ppg....but lets put that aside for now.

Im gonna go back to his 36ppg last NBA season before leaving for a moment.

Chucking or not he led a great team...and he took 33 shots a game in the 67 playoffs.

In the finals it got out of hand...

He went 3-16...in the FIRST QUARTER of his first finals game.

Finished that game 15-43

Had 37/8/7.

Game 2 he went 10-28 and they lost by 30 as he scored 30 points.

Game 3 is where the shit hit the fan....

Since shooting a lot wasnt working Barry decided to shoot...a whole ****ing lot.

So he comes out and drops 17 in the first quarter on 17 shot attempts. finishes the game with 55 points on 22-48 shooting with 19FTA. but in an odd turn...the best FT shooter ever only went 11 of 19. He should have the playoff scoring record really. Anyway....they won. Validating his evil ways.

So next game he has what...if the legends are true...may be the most selfish game in history.

Barry in game 4 got 59 touches.

He took 43 shots.

Had 5 assists.

Several turnovers on fouls...

And supposedly only passed the ball 11 times.

On 59 touches. he passed it back to someone 11 times. 5 of those were assists to a no doubt wide open teammate demanding the ball.

Anyway he had 41 points on 43 shots.

You see how this is going. Over the next/final two games he took 75 shots. Scored 80 points.

Ignoring for a moment how destroyed he would be by modern fans for that performance....

Imagine the balls you need to come take 48 shots. Probably no less than 35-38 straight up long jumpers. If you watch the video you see hes not getting gimmes. hes wetting jumper after jumper from 15-20 feet.

The game he passed 11 of 59 touches would be a marvel to behold.

To his credit...clearly someone was ok with it. They rode him all year and pushed him t othe limit when they got there.

He proved capable of supporting a cast of role players who need him to score...but still play good ball. He did win the title in 75 in a huge upset with no all star teammates. He still scored his ass off(28 a game those playoffs) but he did it all. He was a 31ppg scorer, got 3 steals a game, and was 5th in assists(He was 5th to 8th 6 years in a row).

By most accounts he was a dick...but he led 2 finals team, and I think 2 other teams to game 7s of the WCF, won it all, was a finals MVP, and was a top 2-3 forward in the world for 10 years. All NBA or ABA first team 10 years straight aside from when he had to sit out due to a court ruling when he first left for the ABA.

He shot sooooooooooooo sooooooooo much...but it worked.

But if he had less of a "**** it" mentality day to day perhaps the media doesnt hate him and he gets the credit due. Instead...hes the other guy.

Never getting elite ranking even if players at the time did give it to him. I read Bill sharman saying Barry was the greatest offensive forward ever.

But nobody rememberes or gives a shit.

Sometimes...you need to not give a **** to be great....but not giving a **** hurts peoples opinion of you. Here he is being too real for his own good and going in on Lebron James:





These days a guy who speaks his mind like barry would be a much bigger star.

Talk shit like Arenas but back it up at a higher rate.

Just felt like bumping that. It's always fun to read about Barry. Always hearing how much of an a$$hole he was, and how unstoppable he was. It's just that you never really hear from him.

[Kblaze8855]

As a sidenote, this was almost a triple-double as well. He got 64/10/9 and 5+ steals.

But he was just a bizarre character. You never knew when he would take 30-40 shots and when he'd give you a no-show.
Look at these lines:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barryri01/gamelog/1978/

This is a player who averages 23.1 ppg, yet, he has almost 20 games below 15 points, 4 games below 10, including one when he got 2, while commiting 6 fouls (!) for the first and only time in the season, then he gets 6 40-pointers, including 2 50-pointers.

In his first 15 games alone:
Game 1: 6 points
Game 4: 44 points
Game 7: 51 points
Game 10: 13 points
Game 12: 45 points
Game 14: 14 points

And the rest of his seasons weren't dramatically different.

Yea he could just....not shoot at all...or shoot 50 times. I wonder if that was an issue back then. Maybe a way to prove they needed him to shoot like MJ did once and I believe Kobe was accused of not long ago.

I wish he had hung around longer. But he was still a good player in the early 80s. He won the 4th ever NBA player of the month award in 1980. Also set the NBA record with 8 made 3s.

[Kblaze8855]

Just felt like bumping that. It's always fun to read about Barry. Always hearing how much of an a$$hole he was, and how unstoppable he was. It's just that you never really hear from him.




"You could send him to the U.N., and he'd start World War III."


^
Coach Mike Dunleavy who played with him

[Jacks3]

kblaze is a bad poster. He tries way too hard.

Terrible.
:applause:

[Kblaze8855]

Having read a bit more about him he seems a bit more real than...assholish. for example:


One consequence of all this publicity is a rash of Barry-endorsed products, ranging from Snickers candy bars to Clorox, from sportswear to a savings and loan association to sneakers. Another consequence is the enmity Rick's popularity has engendered among the admirers of Nate Thurmond. Thurmond, as even Barry admits, just happens to be the most valuable player on the Warriors. The fact may be unknown to the casual basketball public but it is accepted without argument by anyone close to the situation. "It's very simple," Barry says. "The most important guy on the Warriors is Nate. You can't win in this league without a good center, and Nate is a great one now. I missed three games earlier in the year and we won all of them. If Nate misses any, we don't win."

No matter how valuable Thurmond may be, however, Barry attracts more attention. For one thing, he is more spectacular. For another, he is white. The situation is hardly new to the NBA (before Barry and Thurmond there were Cousy and Russell, West and Baylor) but it has become a potential team problem in San Francisco because of some remarks made by a Negro journalist named Samuel J. Skinner. After offering an admirable defense for Thurmond, Skinner fell back upon an unfair, searing attack directed at everyone white—particularly Barry.

Barry, it seems, is guilty on two counts: shooting too much and winning the racially inspired admiration of the "white folks." The nadir of Skinner's crusade occurred when an unidentified Negro friend, introduced in his column, sneered at Barry. "I hope he breaks his leg."

As long as he scores 30, 40, even 50 points a game, Barry must be prepared to face accusations about gunning. Sharman, who was a shooter himself, defends Barry. "Selfish?" Sharman says. "They always say the shooter is selfish. That's his job—to shoot. Did they ever say Russell was selfish for taking all the rebounds?" It is a false charge anyway. Barry is, as noted, a fine passer, and the Warrior offense is a fluid one that is not set up especially for him. "He gives the ball up real well," Thurmond says. And Nate, who has played with Chamberlain, adds: "There is a great difference between Wilt making 40 and Rick making 40."

Im not sure how many current stars who can score 30-35+ a game if pushed to do so would ever admit a bigman was more important.

[Ne 1]

If Kobe was a smart person, non deluded and with proper perspective, he would have won more or would have won more clearly. Just because he has enough talent and delusion to cover up for his bad decision making (bad decisions turning good just because the ball hits net) doesn't mean he play like he doesn't care. He ain't got the IQ to do something else.

Uh, no. Kobe himself and Phil Jackson have already talked about this

Kobe has SMALL HANDS and can't control the ball when going to the basket like Jordan could. Jordan was more athletic, which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate. Kobe doesn't take tougher shots because he's not smart or has a low basketball IQ, he just didn't get the same physical gifts as Jordan or LeBron for example. He's already on the record saying that if he had bigger hands, that he would take it to the basket every play and dunk the ball or lay it up. He just can't do it because he didn't win the genetic lottery like LeBron or Mike.

Which is why him being who he is becomes so impressive. This is a guy with average-good athleticism, but not the outta this world athleticism that Mike, LeBron or even Vince Carter have, yet he's been able to place himself right there with Bron and MJ. That is why I respect and admire Kobe. He dedicated time to develop his skills and worked around his short-comings. He isn't who he is because he's an anomaly of biology like LeBron James who simply cannot be stopped because he's a 6'8" 270 pound freak of nature with the speed and agility of a 6'4 200 pound point guard.

[BoutPractice]

Ah... The good old "Kobe is not athletic" nonsense. This is just plain false, but anyway.

Thanks a lot for the Barry stuff. I can't even begin to imagine how the fans would react today if anyone shot 50 times in a Finals game...

[Kblaze8855]

Kobe doesnt take tough shots because he isnt athletic. He took them when he was 20 and athletic as hell.

He takes them because he can make them. Doesnt make them good shots....but they are shots he makes at a rate few ever could.

Hes not Doctor J but hes hardly Spud Webb either...

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8398/kobebryantbellaz6.jpg

[eliteballer]

Uh, no. Kobe himself and Phil Jackson have already talked about this

Kobe has SMALL HANDS and can't control the ball when going to the basket like Jordan could. Jordan was more athletic, which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate. Kobe doesn't take tougher shots because he's not smart or has a low basketball IQ, he just didn't get the same physical gifts as Jordan or LeBron for example. He's already on the record saying that if he had bigger hands, that he would take it to the basket every play and dunk the ball or lay it up. He just can't do it because he didn't win the genetic lottery like LeBron or Mike.

Which is why him being who he is becomes so impressive. This is a guy with average-good athleticism, but not the outta this world athleticism that Mike, LeBron or even Vince Carter have, yet he's been able to place himself right there with Bron and MJ. That is why I respect and admire Kobe. He dedicated time to develop his skills and worked around his short-comings. He isn't who he is because he's an anomaly of biology like LeBron James who simply cannot be stopped because he's a 6'8" 270 pound freak of nature with the speed and agility of a 6'4 200 pound point guard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvWy9liwC7U

and when Kobe was young he was as fast and explosive as any swingman, and his first step was way ahead of LeBrons.

[Jacks3]

Uh, no. Kobe himself and Phil Jackson have already talked about this

Kobe has SMALL HANDS and can't control the ball when going to the basket like Jordan could. Jordan was more athletic, which allowed him to get to the basket at a better rate. Kobe doesn't take tougher shots because he's not smart or has a low basketball IQ, he just didn't get the same physical gifts as Jordan or LeBron for example. He's already on the record saying that if he had bigger hands, that he would take it to the basket every play and dunk the ball or lay it up. He just can't do it because he didn't win the genetic lottery like LeBron or Mike.

Which is why him being who he is becomes so impressive. This is a guy with average-good athleticism, but not the outta this world athleticism that Mike, LeBron or even Vince Carter have, yet he's been able to place himself right there with Bron and MJ. That is why I respect and admire Kobe. He dedicated time to develop his skills and worked around his short-comings. He isn't who he is because he's an anomaly of biology like LeBron James who simply cannot be stopped because he's a 6'8" 270 pound freak of nature with the speed and agility of a 6'4 200 pound point guard.

Very true. Kobe doesn't have anywhere near the physical gifts of LeBron/MJ/Carter or even McGrady or Wade. His strengths are his GOAT work-ethic, intelligence, and skill-set. But if he did have that type of athleticism he would have been the best player ever easily.


Greatest overachiever ever.

:bowdown:

[9erempiree]

Another drunken rambling by OP.

Nobody understands what the hell he's typing. You need to structure your thread better.

Do not and I mean do not post while drunk again.

[Legends66NBA7]

Having read a bit more about him he seems a bit more real than...assholish. for example:



Im not sure how many current stars who can score 30-35+ a game if pushed to do so would ever admit a bigman was more important.

That was a good read. Definitely cool that Barry and Thurmond got each other's back from the media and public scrutiny.

Also, what was Thurmond elobrating on with the Chamberlain/Barry comparisons on scoring ? Is it just how they are scoring in terms of versatility of scoring and/or rhythm of the offense ?

[Sumter15]

Another drunken rambling by OP.

Nobody understands what the hell he's typing. You need to structure your thread better.

Do not and I mean do not post while drunk again.

The butthurt is strong in 9erempire's post.

[Dasher]

Sam Cassell has to figure into the ****-free player rankings.

[Kblaze8855]

That was a good read. Definitely cool that Barry and Thurmond got each other's back from the media and public scrutiny.

Also, what was Thurmond elobrating on with the Chamberlain/Barry comparisons on scoring ? Is it just how they are scoring in terms of versatility of scoring and/or rhythm of the offense ?

I got the impression he meant that Barry scores without ball hogging. And will give the ball up.

As many shots as he took it doesnt seem his teammates has an issue with it.

Which brings to mind the other best forward of the 70s....

Dr.J. If anyone is totally removed from consideration in this topic its the Doc. This guy gave too much of a ****:







Says one of Erving (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Julius_Erving/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm)'s staunchest fans, who also happens to be an NBA (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/National_Basketball_Association/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) coach, "I don't know if it's the big contract, plain disgust, concern about his longevity or just that he's burnt out and can't do it nightly anymore, but Dr. J is not the player we once knew. The electricity isn't there. The truth is that—except for a few playoff games in '77 and the all-star games—the guy has been on vacation for three years. Somebody else has been masquerading as No. 6. On a consistent basis Julius has played to about 40%, tops, of the ability he showed in the ABA."


That may be a bit harsh since in any discussion of Erving (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Julius_Erving/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm)'s effect on a won-lost record, the variable of team cooperation cannot be emphasized enough. Dr. J's flash and overwhelming game domination in the golden days was made possible by his cohorts' intelligence, their willingness to respond and work hard, a learned ability to play off Erving (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Julius_Erving/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm)'s skills. There is considerable doubt that the 76ers (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Philadelphia_76ers/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) of "Dunk you very much" Dawkins (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Darryl_Dawkins/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm), "Jellybean" Bryant, Eric Money and their ilk—"those bubbleheads," one rival coach calls them—can ever exorcise their individual furies long enough to concentrate on the above.


The Doctor himself seems resigned to his fate. "What people don't understand is the apples to oranges context of this change I made," he says. "The situation was created on day one in Philly that I would not play my game. I mean here I was that very first week playing tough and going all out, playing my game, when Fred Carter (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Fred_Carter/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) said, 'Hey, easy man, you're working too hard.' Then I found out what he meant. In Philly when a man got hot and, you know, made three or four in a row, the defense didn't have to adjust to stop him because our own offense made an adjustment to stop him. By not giving him the ball. The first two years it was a ball-distribution thing—when it was your time, you had to do it even if you were swarmed under. You did it then because you knew you wouldn't see the ball again for a long time.

"I got into terrible habits. Caldwell Jones (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Caldwell_Jones/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) said one day, 'Man, why you shooting with three men on you? I never saw you do that before.' I said, 'Did I do that?' For Caldwell to say that to me, I must have done it. But that's not the way I learned how to play. That's not my game. Now we've got another offense in here, but there's no direction, and the same things happen. I don't think it's conscious. People have just been conditioned. I'll get turned on, you know, really want it, then I suddenly stop. Guys start looking at you funny, like you're hogging the ball. So we do something else.
"The problem is we have no offensive identity. Seattle (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Seattle/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) walks it up, so we walk it up. L.A. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Los_Angeles/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) wants to run it and push it, so we do the same and get blown out. There is no time when we stop and say, O.K., this is Philadelphia (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Philadelphia_76ers/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm)'s game, and we're going to play it. We always play the other people's game.

"Look, yes, I think about what might have been had I stayed with the Nets," Erving (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Julius_Erving/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) says. "But that's counterproductive. I was the primary guy there. I think we could have been contenders for years because what we lacked in talent we would have made up for with Kevin Loughery (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Kevin_Loughery/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm)'s innovativeness. It was fun in the huddles when all else failed and Kevin would say to me, 'It's time to do something.' And, you know, I would. But I refuse to be pressured into forcing myself to take over here. I'm a follower."

"I know the city is hungry for a championship. But I don't want anyone telling me I should be scoring 50 points a game unless we talk about that in the Philadelphia (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Philadelphia_76ers/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) locker room. We don't."
And if the 76ers (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Philadelphia_76ers/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm) did?
"If we did," says Erving (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Julius_Erving/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm), "I'd go out and do it."



Imagine Lebron saying:

"Im a follower" when his team isnt playing to expectations. He would be destroyed these days.

Doc with a pinch of Barrys lack of concern might have been top 3 all time.