Whos your top 10 defenders Alltime?

[Dionysus]

For me

1. Pippen- often guarded the best player on the other team so that Jordan could rest on D and shoot on the other end. Lock down perimeter defense and shadow guarding paint drives.

2. Hakeem
3. Dennis Rodman
4. Ben Wallace
5. Joe Dumars
6. Bill Russell *(not competetive era)
7. Kevin Mchale
8. Mutombo
9. Ron Harper
10. LeBron James

Whos yours?

[cos88]

For me

1. Pippen- often guarded the best player on the other team so that Jordan could rest on D and shoot on the other end. Lock down perimeter defense and shadow guarding paint drives.

2. Hakeem
3. Dennis Rodman
4. Ben Wallace
5. Joe Dumars
6. Bill Russell *(not competetive era)
7. Kevin Mchale
8. Mutombo
9. Ron Harper
10. LeBron James

Whos yours?


embarassing list :facepalm

bill russell is the greatest defender of all time it's a known fact.

ron harper ?? really? heard of gary payton ?

also wilt at his defensive peak, late in his career was fantastic.



this players should be on every list:

russell
pippen
jordan
payton
hakeem
rodman
mutombo

+ guys like kareem, wilt, dumars, frazier etc

[LAZERUSS]

Top-3 are easy.

Russell
Wilt
Thurmond

[Dr.J4ever]

Bobby Jones has to be on any list of defensive players.

[Haymaker]

In no given order:

Dikembe Mutombo
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman
Bill Russell
Bruce Bowen
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Dennis Johnson
Alvin Robertson
Gary Payton

[Johnny Jones]

Bobby Jones has to be on any list of defensive players.
This. Dude was a monster.

[Dionysus]

This. Dude was a monster.

No

[LAZERUSS]

Russell was the greatest overall court defender in NBA history.

Thurmond was the greatest one-on-one defender in NBA history.

And Wilt was the greatest "paint" defender (and shot-blocker) in NBA history. And he was right there with Nate in one-on-one defending, too. He routinely reduced his opposing centers to way below their normal efficiencies (especially in the post-season.)

[Dionysus]

Russell was the greatest overall court defender in NBA history.

Thurmond was the greatest one-on-one defender in NBA history.

And Wilt was the greatest "paint" defender (and shot-blocker) in NBA history. And he was right there with Nate in one-on-one defending, too. He routinely reduced his opposing centers to way below their normal efficiencies (especially in the post-season.)

50s/60's weak era

[Nastradamus]

Duncan(2nd best defensive rating ever, a solid 95 year in and year out)
Russell
Rodman
Hakeem
Garnett
B.Wallace
Pippen
Payton
Elvin Hayes
Lebron

Honorable mention to Wilt,MJ,Kidd,Moncrief and a few otehrs.

[gengiskhan]

1. Rodman
2. Hakeem
3. Jordan
4. Dumars
5. Motombo
6. Mourning
7. Oakley
8. Pippen
9. Wallace
10.Payton

[LAZERUSS]

50s/60's weak era


Well, with regards to Wilt and Thurmond, at least, let's include the 70's, as well.

And speaking of which...


For me

1. Pippen- often guarded the best player on the other team so that Jordan could rest on D and shoot on the other end. Lock down perimeter defense and shadow guarding paint drives.

2. Hakeem
3. Dennis Rodman
4. Ben Wallace
5. Joe Dumars
6. Bill Russell *(not competetive era)
7. Kevin Mchale
8. Mutombo
9. Ron Harper
10. LeBron James

Whos yours?

You have Hakeem at #2.

Interesting. How about this in that "weak era?" Nate Thurmond faced a prime KAJ in 40 h2h games. Kareem had a total of seven games against Nate in which he scored 30+ points, with a high game of 34. In fact, he had as many games, under 20 points against Nate, as over 30. Furthermore, he seldom even shot 50% against Thurmond, and overall, he shot about .440 against him in their 40 h2h games. In fact, in his three straight post-seasons against Nate, he shot .486, .405, and .428.

Now, fast forward to the mid-80's. A 38-39 year old KAJ, who averaged a combined 22.7 ppg on .580 shooting against the NBA in those two seasons...faced a 22-23 year old Hakeem in ten straight games. In those ten straight games, he had SIX of 30+, including games of 40, 43, and 46 points (btw, in that 46 point game, KAJ shot 21-30 from the field, and in only 37 minutes of play.) Overall in those ten straight games? KAJ averaged 33 ppg on a staggering .630 FG%. One can only wonder how many 50-60 point games a peak KAJ would have shelled Hakeem with.

And btw, Artis Gilmore just annihilated Hakeem's Rockets in his firts ten h2h's as well, averaging 24 ppg on an unbelievable .677 FG%. Now, whether Hakeem was being torched, or Sampson, it was obvious who the best player on the floor was in those ten games.

In any case, we KNOW that Hakeem was the primary defender on the 38-39 year KAJ in their ten straight h2h's. It was such a bloodbath, that Hakeem's coach was forced to put Sampson on KAJ in the '86 playoffs.

Yep...weak era.

[LAZERUSS]

As a sidenote to the above, a prime "scoring" Chamberlain faced Thurmond in 11 straight games from the end of the '65 season thru the early '67 season. In those 11 games, he averaged 30 ppg, with six of 30+, and which included games of 34, 34, 38, and even a 45 point shellacking. And in his three post-season series against Thurmond, he shot .560 (in Nate's greatest season BTW), .500, and .550.

[andgar923]

For me

1. Pippen- often guarded the best player on the other team so that Jordan could rest on D and shoot on the other end. Lock down perimeter defense and shadow guarding paint drives.


one of the biggest myths ever

[andgar923]

It's sad that KG isn't on everybody's list.


The only player that could literally guard every single position on the court effectively and consistently on any type of situation.

I'm not talking about backing away from smaller players and daring them to shoot or shadowing them. I'm talking about straight up defense on any player regardless of position or height.

Some players can do that at times with perhaps some success.

But Kg was more consistent at defending them well than anybody I've seen (to be honest never seen Russell).

[Harison]

Russell
Hakeem
Thurmond
Garnett
Rodman
Wilt
DRob (its weird nobody mentioned him yet, before the injury he was actually better defender than Duncan).
TD

Wings:
Jordan
Pippen
Frazier
Payton

[fpliii]

In no particular order:

Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Dikembe Mutombo
Hakeem Olajuwon
David Robinson
Bill Russell
Nate Thurmond
Ben Wallace

That's 9 I guess. Walton and Kareem both have cases for the last spot. Guys who weren't interior defenders might come close too (Pippen, Rodman, Moncrief, Cooper, Payton, Jordan, Artest, etc. help defense is more important than man D so some guys stand out more), but size is a huge advantage. Ewing, Mourning, Peak Shaq are HMs. I think Bobby Jones is going to be my tenth guy, based on what I've read/watched of him. Dwight can make a case with more top-shelf seasons.

[LAZERUSS]

In no particular order:

Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Dikembe Mutombo
Hakeem Olajuwon
David Robinson
Bill Russell
Nate Thurmond
Ben Wallace

That's 9 I guess. Walton and Kareem both have cases for the last spot. Guys who weren't interior defenders might come close too (Pippen, Rodman, Moncrief, Cooper, Payton, Jordan, Artest, etc. help defense is more important than man D so some guys stand out more), but size is a huge advantage. Ewing, Mourning, Peak Shaq are HMs. I think Bobby Jones is going to be my tenth guy, based on what I've read/watched of him. Dwight can make a case with more top-shelf seasons.

Kareem is a tough one. Early in his career, he was anchoring four straight teams that had the best FG% agaist mark in the league each season, as well as top-3 in ppg allowed. And I would say he was still an excellent defender up until his last MVP season, in 79-80. After that he was pretty much just an offensive player. Both his rebounding and defense declined each season thereafter.

[fpliii]

Kareem is a tough one. Early in his career, he was anchoring four straight teams that had the best FG% agaist mark in the league each season, as well as top-3 in ppg allowed. And I would say he was still an excellent defender up until his last MVP season, in 79-80. After that he was pretty much just an offensive player. Both his rebounding and defense declined each season thereafter.

Walton is tough as well, given the short prime. Do you have the same top 9? Of so, who's the last guy in? If not, who do you have instead?

[fpliii]

Regarding Kareem, here's a post of mine from another site:


The defense is tough for Kareem. I'm taking a break from MJ/Russ and moving on to Cap, but here are his teams' relative DRtgs compared to the league average (minutes played in parentheses):

MIL
69 +2.2% (0)
70 -1.1% (3534)
71 -3.5% (3288)
72 -4.9% (3583)
73 -5.5% (3254)
74 -4.2% (3548)
75 +0.2% (2747)
76 +0.4% (0)

LAL
75 +2.3% (0)
76 +0.5% (3379)
77 -0.7% (3016)
78 -0.1% (2265)
79 -0.6% (3157)
80 -1.3% (3143)
81 -1.6% (2976)
82 -1.3% (2677)
83 +0.5% (2554)
84 -0.3% (2622)
85 -0.8% (2630)
86 -1.3% (2629)
87 -1.7% (2441)
88 -0.7% (2308)
89 -1.0% (1695)
90 -1.0% (0)

The first set of bolded years seem to be impressive, as do 80-82 (after which I don't feel comfortable assigning him too much credit/blame). 75-79 seem out of place here, though we can discount 75 due to injury. 76-79 don't seem what you'd expect based on his earlier career, but based on LAL in 75, maybe the rest of the team was awful defensively? I'll have to do more research, but the numbers seem odd. At the moment, I'm going with:

75 - injury
76 - getting used to the team
77,78,79 - had to anchor the offense, so didn't have enough energy to dedicate himself as much to defense; these numbers aren't terrible, but you'd expect more based on 71-74...maybe we have to take the split leagues/expansion into account, and those seasons overstate his defensive impact?

Anyhow, what do you guys think?

I think he was good through 82 based on these numbers, but 75-79 is tough to explain. I tried to figure it out in the post, but based on the years before and after you'd think the defenses would be better.

[LAZERUSS]

Regarding Kareem, here's a post of mine from another site:



I think he was good through 82 based on these numbers, but 75-79 is tough to explain. I tried to figure it out in the post, but based on the years before and after you'd think the defenses would be better.

I have said this before, but the evidence certainly suggests it...KAJ simply went thru the motions for much of '75 thru '79. He could be brilliant in spurts, but his overall play declined sharply from his '71 thru '74 dominance.

And I honestly believe that had not Magic arrived in '80, that Kareem would have retired in the mid-80's with one ring, and his career would have been somewhat of a disappointment, and an under-achievement.

[fpliii]

I have said this before, but the evidence certainly suggests it...KAJ simply went thru the motions for much of '75 thru '79. He could be brilliant in spurts, but his overall play declined sharply from his '71 thru '74 dominance.

And I honestly believe that had not Magic arrived in '80, that Kareem would have retired in the mid-80's with one ring, and his career would have been somewhat of a disappointment, and an under-achievement.

Perhaps. BTW other than the big three, who are your top 10 defenders?

[LAZERUSS]

Perhaps. BTW other than the big three, who are your top 10 defenders?

Outside of centers, it's difficult. In most cases, the centers are at least battling each other, and you can get a better perspective of at least their one-on-one defense. And the better shot-blockers are usually centers, too, and that is an example of controlling the entire paint on defense.

But I always liked Michael Cooper, who was considered "the Bird-stopper." Jerry West was a brilliant defensive player who probably had multiple games of 10+ steals. So was Walt Frazier.

Bruce Bowen, Bobby Jones, Kobe, MJ, Pippen, a young Rodman, and certainly Lebron.

Other centers? Robinson, Hakeem, Lanier, Wallace, and Howard.

[fpliii]

Outside of centers, it's difficult. In most cases, the centers are at least battling each other, and you can get a better perspective of at least their one-on-one defense. And the better shot-blockers are usually centers, too, and that is an example of controlling the entire paint on defense.

But I always liked Michael Cooper, who was considered "the Bird-stopper." Jerry West was a brilliant defensive player who probably had multiple games of 10+ steals. So was Walt Frazier.

Bruce Bowen, Bobby Jones, Kobe, MJ, Pippen, a young Rodman, and certainly Lebron.

Other centers? Robinson, Hakeem, Lanier, Wallace, and Howard.

Does Bellamy warrant a mention?

[LAZERUSS]

Does Bellamy warrant a mention?

Well, he certainly couldn't come close to containing a prime Chamberlain. Wilt had entire seasons, covering ten games in each season, of averaging 43.7 and a mind-boggling 52.7 ppg against him. Even as late as his '65-66 season, Chamberlain averaged 33 ppg (including yet another 50 point game), in his nine h2h's with Bellamy. Then, in the '68 playoffs, Wilt not only averaged 25.5 ppg on .584 shooting against Bellamy, he held Walt, who had shot .541 over the course of the entire season, to .421 shooting in that series.

This is not a knock on Bellamy, as a whole, but to my knowledge, he was never considered a good defender.

Bob Lanier certainly was, though, and yet a 35-36 year old Wilt, in his last two seasons, and covering 11 h2h games against Lanier, averaged 23.9 ppg on .784 shooting against him...including one 32-31 game.

[Smoke117]

Russell
Hakeem
Thurmond
Garnett
Rodman
Wilt
DRob (its weird nobody mentioned him yet, before the injury he was actually better defender than Duncan).
TD

Wings:
Jordan
Pippen
Frazier
Payton


Seriously. Besides Hakeem he was the most dominant defensive player in he league. He was a BETTER defender than Duncan even after his back injury as it allowed him to put more effort into his defense. Up until around 2002, 2003, he was their best defensive player. His 1992 season stands as one of the most dominant defensive seasons ever. Putting Mutombo while leaving out Robinson is laughable. Mutombo was so slow he couldn't even defend anyone. There's a 1995 game that someone put up with the Spurs vs the Hawks and Mutombo isn't even defending Robinson...because he couldn't.

Robinson was also a much better team/help defender because of his speed and quickness. Mutombo blocked a lot of shots, but he had piss poor foot movement. The year Robinson won the DPOY he averaged a crazy 4.5bpg and 2.3spg. He led the league in total blocks despite only playing 68 games. The Spurs were first in drating with 104.1 and Robinson was a 94...10 below the teams rating. The only defensive player better than Robinson over the last 30 odd years is Hakeem Olajuwon.

[fsvr54]

It's sad that KG isn't on everybody's list.


The only player that could literally guard every single position on the court effectively and consistently on any type of situation.

I'm not talking about backing away from smaller players and daring them to shoot or shadowing them. I'm talking about straight up defense on any player regardless of position or height.

Some players can do that at times with perhaps some success.

But Kg was more consistent at defending them well than anybody I've seen (to be honest never seen Russell).

I agree, KG is the best defensive anchor of this era.

[LAZERUSS]

Seriously. Besides Hakeem he was the most dominant defensive player in he league. He was a BETTER defender than Duncan even after his back injury as it allowed him to put more effort into his defense. Up until around 2002, 2003, he was there best defensive player. His 1992 season stands as one of the most dominant defensive seasons ever. Putting Mutombo while leaving out Robinson is laughable. Mutombo was so slow he couldn't even defend anyone. There's a 1995 game that someone put up with the Spurs vs the Hawks and Mutombo isn't even defending Robinson...because he couldn't.

Robinson was also a much better team/help defender because of his speed and quickness. Mutombo blocked a lot of shots, but he had piss poor foot movement. The year Robinson won the DPOY he averaged a crazy 4.5bpg and 2.3spg. He led the league in total blocks despite only playing 68 games. The Spurs were first in drating with 104.1 and Robinson was a 94...10 below the teams rating. The only defensive player better than Robinson over the last 30 odd years is Hakeem Olajuwon.

Aside from the '95 WCF's, when Hakeem destroyed Robinson, the rest of their 42 career h2h's were almost dead even statistically. MPG, RPG, BPG, APG, etc. were all equal, and while Hakeem slightly outscored D-Rob in those 42 games, Robinson outshot Hakeem from the field by a .488 to .441 margin. Oh, and btw, Robinson's Spurs also went 30-12 against Hakeem's Rockets in that span.

Unfortunately for the Admiral, his entire career seems to be judged by that one six game series (and he was only outplayed in four of them.)

[alexd]

no love for mookie blaylock?
my top 10 is for 90s until today cause then i started watching
in no order
mookie
gp
stockton(he was a dirty bastard)
hakeem
dunckan
kg
rodman
pippen
jordan
ron artest

[Harison]

@ Smoke117 and LAZERUSS

Exactly, DRob is criminally underrated, especially defensively. Duncan got all the laurels, and Robinson got... what exactly? He gets no credit for Spurs championships, and his entire career seems to be judged entirely by 95 WCF...

I'm quite confident if we swap TD with Robinson, their careers would be completely different, with Duncan getting no respect and DRob getting all the credit, just as unfairly.

[hangintheair]

on the top of my list would be either Bargnani or Boozer.. :D

[Psileas]

For me

1. Pippen- often guarded the best player on the other team so that Jordan could rest on D and shoot on the other end. Lock down perimeter defense and shadow guarding paint drives.

2. Hakeem
3. Dennis Rodman
4. Ben Wallace
5. Joe Dumars
6. Bill Russell *(not competetive era)
7. Kevin Mchale
8. Mutombo
9. Ron Harper
10. LeBron James

Whos yours?


Location: Islington, London

Non NBA-competitive city.
List rejected.

[tpols]

In no given order:

Dikembe Mutombo
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman
Bill Russell
Bruce Bowen
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Dennis Johnson
Alvin Robertson
Gary Payton
No Ben Wallace? Hes up there with rodman and mutumbo, way better than bruce..

[Smoke117]

In no given order:

Dikembe Mutombo
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman
Bill Russell
Bruce Bowen
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Dennis Johnson
Alvin Robertson
Gary Payton


This a terrible list. You dont' even have Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson on it, but have Mutombo? :biggums: This is laughable.

[ProfessorMurder]

Mutombo couldn't guard anyone? :rolleyes:

He was one of the best one on one defenders and paint protectors EVER. Per blocked shot he also fouled less than Hakeem.

[Smoke117]

Mutombo couldn't guard anyone? :rolleyes:

He was one of the best one on one defenders and paint protectors EVER. Per blocked shot he also fouled less than Hakeem.


You are going to argue Mutombo was a better defensive player than Hakeem Olajuwon? Good luck...

And no he was not one of the best one on one defenders. He couldn't even guard David Robinson because he was TOO SLOW. They had their PF guard Robinson because Mutombo couldn't keep up.

[Smoke117]

Top 10 defenders of all time:
Hakeem Olajuwon
David Robinson
Bill Walton (short period, but he was a beast when healthy)
Bill Russell
Scottie Pippen
Michael Jordan
Sidney Moncrief
Bob Lanier
Jason Kidd
Dennis Rodman

[TheWalkman]

Another agenda driven thread by a terrible poster. Welcome to ISH

[Haymaker]

There are so many good defenders that a top 10 isn't even fair. I tried though.

[Haks]

SMH when I see Lebron and no KG and TD

[Dionysus]

There are so many good defenders that a top 10 isn't even fair. I tried though.

I know, I had a tough time compiling the list, KG was on my mind but couldn't crack LeBrons dominate defense.

[T_L_P]

1. Ben Wallace
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. David Robinson
4. Bill Russell
5. Tim Duncan
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Dennis Rodman
8. Dikembe Mutombo
9. Wilt Chamberlain


Really struggling for a #10. Dwight gets pretty underrated, but I don't know if he was that good. Certainly Bill Walton if we're talking about peaks, but he wasn't on the floor enough for an entire prime. Maybe Bob Lanier? Maybe AK47? I don't know if I could put a non-PF/C in the top 10 (though Rodman did play a fair share of SF).

[hateraid]

There is a lack of Mark Eaton

[Nowitness]

1. Ben Wallace
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. David Robinson
4. Bill Russell
5. Tim Duncan
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Dennis Rodman
8. Dikembe Mutombo
9. Wilt Chamberlain


Really struggling for a #10. Dwight gets pretty underrated, but I don't know if he was that good. Certainly Bill Walton if we're talking about peaks, but he wasn't on the floor enough for an entire prime. Maybe Bob Lanier? Maybe AK47? I don't know if I could put a non-PF/C in the top 10 (though Rodman did play a fair share of SF).

No GP. List isn't credible.

[T_L_P]

No GP. List isn't credible.

Eh, relative to the position he'd be there (along with Pippen, Jordan and Moncrief). But just in terms of impacting the defense? He's not even top 25.

[ArbitraryWater]

1. Ben Wallace
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. David Robinson
4. Bill Russell
5. Tim Duncan
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Dennis Rodman
8. Dikembe Mutombo
9. Wilt Chamberlain


Really struggling for a #10. Dwight gets pretty underrated, but I don't know if he was that good. Certainly Bill Walton if we're talking about peaks, but he wasn't on the floor enough for an entire prime. Maybe Bob Lanier? Maybe AK47? I don't know if I could put a non-PF/C in the top 10 (though Rodman did play a fair share of SF).

Ben Wallace?

[ProfessorMurder]

You are going to argue Mutombo was a better defensive player than Hakeem Olajuwon? Good luck...

And no he was not one of the best one on one defenders. He couldn't even guard David Robinson because he was TOO SLOW. They had their PF guard Robinson because Mutombo couldn't keep up.
In certain aspects, yes.

Mutombo was one of the best rim protectors, one on one post defenders and shot blockers ever.

Who is 'they'? The Nuggets? The Hawks? Philadelphia? Couldn't possibly have been a strategy play by the coach. Couldn't possibly be because Robinson played away from the basket a little more than a lot of centers and they wanted Mutombo to grab boards and protect the paint...

Feel free to tell me minute by minute stats of when they defended each other, because head to head stats clearly show that Robinson didn't torch Mutombo's teams any more than he did to anyone else. How is it a slight on Mutombo that he may have had a hard time keeping up with one of the biggest athletic freaks of all time and one of the top players ever? Mutombo had a tough time with Shaq too, guess he sucked as a defender because Shaq was allowed to elbow him in the teeth all day.

[pudman13]

Jerry West also deserves to be on this list.

[Marchesk]

Sidney Moncrief is the only* perimeter player to win 2 DPOY awards, and he's only on a couple lists?

*Granted, they didn't give it out before he won it.

[CasterL]

Bigs have such a bigger defensive impact than wing players I think there should be two lists. And Lebron on the lists? GTFO