A History of Flopping in the NBA (Long Read)

[jlip]

This started off as a search for flopping during just the 80

[SpecialQue]

I've watched some old games and saw some flops. Nice to see some research on it. :cheers:

[Magic 32]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302139

[tmacattack33]

No surprise.

Most of the people who claim that the game was so much better in the 80's are probably like 25 years old :facepalm, or they could indeed be an older person who lived through those times, but it's pretty hard to remember random stuff from 30 years ago.

[Djahjaga]

Give this man some rep :applause:

Great research.

Edit: I would add that, while I don't defend flopping, I understand how the players might have their hands forced. If the entire Clippers team is gonna flop the whole game and the refs are gonna reward that bs, you might be tempted to do the same to even it out. Blows.

[jlip]

Barkley admits to flopping during a 1997 playoff game against the Jazz.

[I]

[Hoopz2332]

Give this man some rep :applause:

Great research.

Edit: I would add that, while I don't defend flopping, I understand how the players might have their hands forced. If the entire Clippers team is gonna flop the whole game and the refs are gonna reward that bs, you might be tempted to do the same to even it out. Blows.


:applause:

[Straight_Ballin]

No surprise.

Most of the people who claim that the game was so much better in the 80's are probably like 25 years old :facepalm, or they could indeed be an older person who lived through those times, but it's pretty hard to remember random stuff from 30 years ago.

Yes, knowing that flopping was less prevalent back then completely escapes ones mind.

The constant attempts to justify today's league is better only to fail on every argument is rather entertaining.

[jlip]

No surprise.

Most of the people who claim that the game was so much better in the 80's are probably like 25 years old :facepalm, or they could indeed be an older person who lived through those times, but it's pretty hard to remember random stuff from 30 years ago.


Yes, knowing that flopping was less prevalent back then completely escapes ones mind.

The constant attempts to justify today's league is better only to fail on every argument is rather entertaining.

I didn't make this thread to claim that any era was better. Honestly, at age 36 I often find myself conflicted. There are moments where I will defend the past, and other moments where I will defend the present, usually against extremes and generalizations on both sides.

But I do somewhat understand tmac33's point about remembering the past. Have you ever witnessed something, and someone later pointed out a certain detail to you that you hadn't initially observed? Then you reply, "I hadn't seen that at first, but now that you mentioned it..." That's how it is with memory. We usually remember the important things that are talked about and played over and over again. Other details that were not discussed are forgotten or ignored unless pointed out. When I was researching this thread I came across accusations of flopping in games that I watched live in the 90's while in college and didn't remember, partially because flopping was not the focus of popular basketball discourse back then. Also, some of those flops back then were often referred to less derisively as, "savvy, veteran moves" if performed by a seasoned player.

Again flopping may be more commonplace today than it was in the past. I won't argue against that, but it was obviously prevalent enough in the 70's for Red Auerbach to do a four minute video trying to get it stopped. It was present enough in the 90's for the New York Times to do an article on it in '96, and for coach Jack Ramsey to claim basically, "They [NBA players] all flop" in '98.

[andgar923]

I alluded to flopping being in existence for decades before, but it was never as common and ridiculous as it is now.

Players used it sparringly and calculated when to do it, today it appears to be a natural reaction.

It's so bad today that there's actual RULES that are meant to curtail it.

[Hoopz2332]

This thread needs more feedback

[DCL]

i never flopped in my life.

if i got hit hard, i actually did the opposite and pretended it didn't hurt.

flopping are for b!tches.

[Greg Oden 50]

No surprise.

Most of the people who claim that the game was so much better in the 80's are probably like 25 years old :facepalm, or they could indeed be an older person who lived through those times, but it's pretty hard to remember random stuff from 30 years ago.

no one ever flop as worse as Leflop did :hammerhead:

[Ai2death]

no one ever flop as worse as Leflop did :hammerhead:

No one was the best player in the league when they did it.

That said, flopping is more noticeable now due to our access to information. We can replay a flop on a friggen mobile. Once apon a time, you would have to record the game on your vhs, or find a friend who had one. Find the exact moment in a routine of play, stop, fast forward, play.
Then, instead of just tapping where the video was to play, you had to play, rewind, play, etc etc.

[jlip]

No one was the best player in the league when they did it.

That said, flopping is more noticeable now due to our access to information. We can replay a flop on a friggen mobile. Once apon a time, you would have to record the game on your vhs, or find a friend who had one. Find the exact moment in a routine of play, stop, fast forward, play.
Then, instead of just tapping where the video was to play, you had to play, rewind, play, etc etc.



As a side note I did come across a 1985 PPV article which accused league MVP, Larry Bird, of flopping (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/access/661936351.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Apr+19%2C+1985&author=Michael+Madden%2C+Globe+Staff&pub=Boston+Globe+%28pre-1997+Fulltext%29&desc=THOSE+CALLS+MADE+A+WORLD+OF+DIFFERENCE&pqatl=google)
..

[hahaitme]

No one was the best player in the league when they did it.

That said, flopping is more noticeable now due to our access to information. We can replay a flop on a friggen mobile. Once apon a time, you would have to record the game on your vhs, or find a friend who had one. Find the exact moment in a routine of play, stop, fast forward, play.
Then, instead of just tapping where the video was to play, you had to play, rewind, play, etc etc.

Pretty much this. Also, I suspect most people were either:
a) too young to even watch anything before the 00's.
b) did watch the older players play, but are in heavy denial.

[Rake2204]

I still maintain there are various levels of flops. The flops I have the biggest issue with are those where a player pretends he was hit when he wasn't (ex: Derrick Rose's "finger poke" on LeBron James).

However, I do not have as much of a problem with slight theatrics if it's in response to legitimate illegal contact. Growing up idolizing the Detroit Bad Boys and their mental warfare, I used to often go out of my way to put myself in position to be legitimately hit. Or, if I felt an opponent were attempting to illegally establish position in some regard (whether by strong-arming or grabbing) I'd make sure to draw attention to such a maneuver by letting him push me over and by me moving my body in a manner that'd draw attention to his fouling antics, all in lieu of just trying to just let him illegally outstrongarm me.

Basically,

What I don't like = Players pretending there was contact when zero existed

What I don't mind as much = Players drawing attention to an opponent's illegal play (or foul) by perhaps allowing their body's momentum to be shifted in the opposite direction a little more readily

[SHAQisGOAT]

As a side note I did come across a 1985 PPV article which accused league MVP, Larry Bird, of flopping. (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/access/661936351.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Apr+19%2C+1985&author=Michael+Madden%2C+Globe+Staff&pub=Boston+Globe+%28pre-1997+Fulltext%29&desc=THOSE+CALLS+MADE+A+WORLD+OF+DIFFERENCE&pqatl=google)



Tbh that's not an article accusing Bird of flopping.. Flopping is mentioned in a quote from World B Free who said Bird flopped, and that's after getting beaten by Bird's Celtics in the EC 1st round. So stop trying to twist things and saying Larry was a flopper or something.

There's plenty of footage from Bird to go around and I'm willing to bet nobody can show me footage of him flopping, and I mean flopping not stuff like putting himself in a position to take the contact or even selling the call a bit, let's say.

On a side note, here's Red Auerbach really critizing flopping, back in the 70's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IK3bvlyzpg

[jlip]

Tbh that's not an article accusing Bird of flopping.. Flopping is mentioned in a quote from World B Free who said Bird flopped, and that's after getting beaten by Bird's Celtics in the EC 1st round. So stop trying to twist things and saying Larry was a flopper or something.

There's plenty of footage from Bird to go around and I'm willing to bet nobody can show me footage of him flopping, and I mean flopping not stuff like putting himself in a position to take the contact or even selling the call a bit, let's say.

On a side note, here's Red Auerbach really critizing flopping, back in the 70's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IK3bvlyzpg

Please stop trying to defend one of your favorite players. This is merely semantics. While "the article" itself may not have accused Bird of flopping. Someone, World B. Free, who is quoted in the article, accused Bird of flopping. That was the simple point of the post. Bird was accused of flopping in 1985. That's it. I never once said that Bird was a flopper.

In addition to that, did you read the OP. I clearly included Red Auerbach's quote in the OP.

[QUOTE=jlip] It appears that during the 70