Timberwolves offer Kevin Martin 4 years, $30 million

[bagelred]

Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick 5m

The Minnesota Timberwolves have offered Kevin Martin a 4-year deal that could be worth as much as $30 million with incentives. Story to come

D'oh!!!

[Fudge]

Accept K Mart!

[bagelred]

Accept K Mart!

SHUT THE FCUK UP FUDGE!!!!!




ahole

[D-Rose]

That's a lot. No AK would mean this deal reduces their defense. Meh.

[EnoughSaid]

If he accepts, and unless Lamb and Adams develop into great players, OKC isn't winning shit for a long time. :oldlol:

[Levity]

good for kmart. i hope they offered Mayo the same thing. especially with no more JJ available.

[PickernRoller]

Intradesting.


If he accepts, and unless Lamb and Adams develop into great players, OKC isn't winning shit for a long time. :oldlol:

OKC will make some moves. They usually play it out quiet like right now. But yeah... I wouldn't mind that either - not that I am hater, just business.

[Young X]

dat Harden trade

[Fudge]

SHUT THE FCUK UP FUDGE!!!!!




ahole
:(

[poido123]

Timberwolves have lost their mind.

Kevin Martin is a skinny, overrated hack who has a history of injuries.

Oh man, some of these franchises will never learn. Over 7 Mill a year for a guy who is useless unless he's hitting 3's?

He is 30 years old too let's not forget :facepalm:

I'm disappointed because I don't like seeing struggling small market franchises continue to make stupid mistakes.

[Levity]

Timberwolves have lost their mind.

Kevin Martin is a skinny, overrated hack who has a history of injuries.

Oh man, some of these franchises will never learn. Over 7 Mill a year for a guy who is useless unless he's hitting 3's?

He is 30 years old too let's not forget :facepalm:

I'm disappointed because I don't like seeing struggling small market franchises continue to make stupid mistakes.

ye i think there are better SG pick ups out there for the wolves, as well. THey were the worst 3pt shooting team in the season last year, so im guessing theyre looking at kmarts 3pt % to justify the signing. but still, there are better complete players out there.

[brantonli]

Rick Adelman will know how to use him very well, so utilising K Mart won't be the problem. But at that price? When K-Mart is 34, the wolves will be kicking themselves for giving him nearly 8 million a year.

[Levity]

Rick Adelman will know how to use him very well, so utilising K Mart won't be the problem. But at that price? When K-Mart is 34, the wolves will be kicking themselves for giving him nearly 8 million a year.

seeing that your a rockets fan, didnt adleman not play martin his last year coaching the rockets? Or was that mchale that kept him in the dog house? i cant really remember

[FireMcFailPlease]

So I guess we'll have to trot Luke Ridnour out there at the starting 2, just like the last 3 years because ISH thinks Kmart is too old.

[Da_Bulls_23]

D'oh!!!

Good for K-Mart, Bad for MIN & OKC.

This guys is over rated though. Interesting to see if he takes the money or takes less to win a 'Ship...

I say he takes the money...

[Brokenbeat]

dat Harden trade

Presti when the news broke:

http://www.sanitaryum.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Girl-in-the-News-FAIL.gif

[Fudge]

He accepted.

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[FireDavidKahn]

7 million a year for Martin isn't so bad. The length of the contract may bite us in year 4 but his ability to score and shoot the 3 is invaluable to this team right now.

[poido123]

ye i think there are better SG pick ups out there for the wolves, as well. THey were the worst 3pt shooting team in the season last year, so im guessing theyre looking at kmarts 3pt % to justify the signing. but still, there are better complete players out there.

Reddick was available for the same amount? Unless they missed the boat and that Clips/Bucks/Suns trade was already done before they tryed to get him.

But even still, I don't understand teams laying out money like that, why not save the capspace for impact players like defensive centres or superstars in the league who will be worth the money. 3 point shooters are easier to find.

Yeah he shot .420, but that is in relation to playing for OKC.

Bulls picked up Dunleavy for 3 mill a year, who can also do a bit of everything and shot last year at .420

I'm amazed Martin got payed off one good shooting year.

[La Frescobaldi]

So I guess we'll have to trot Luke Ridnour out there at the starting 2, just like the last 3 years because ISH thinks Kmart is too old.
the beef I have with it is Ridnour probly IS better (and I ain't no freaking ridnour stan) because at least his body don't cave on him over and over and he's got a clue about basketball

[FireMcFailPlease]

the beef I have with it is Ridnour probly IS better (and I ain't no freaking ridnour stan) because at least his body don't cave on him over and over and he's got a clue about basketball
Ridnour is a horrible starting 2 dude.

[KG215]

If he accepts, and unless Lamb and Adams develop into great players, OKC isn't winning shit for a long time. :oldlol:
Based on what? It's not like Martin was the longterm solution or anything. That's why Presti got Lamb in the trade, too.

[ALBballer]

I would have liked to see them get OJ Mayo but this is a decent signing. Wolves need players that can create their own shot and score and having Barea, Ridnour and etc playing the 2 isn't a great idea.

[EnoughSaid]

Based on what? It's not like Martin was the longterm solution or anything. That's why Presti got Lamb in the trade, too.

I mean if you're looking at this build up of a team. Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Perkins isn't a championship building block. Unless Durant develops into a LeBron type of player, and Westbrook goes off for a playoff run, these guys won't be beating Miami anytime soon.

[KG215]

I mean if you're looking at this build up of a team. Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Perkins isn't a championship building block. Unless Durant develops into a LeBron type of player, and Westbrook goes off for a playoff run, these guys won't be beating Miami anytime soon.
Yeah, you're probably right. Given their age, it's highly unlikely Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka get any better than they already are. All three are probably capped out as players.

[raid09]

I mean if you're looking at this build up of a team. Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Perkins isn't a championship building block. Unless Durant develops into a LeBron type of player, and Westbrook goes off for a playoff run, these guys won't be beating Miami anytime soon.

Why won't Durant develop, as he's 24 years old? Why won't Westbrook, a top 10 player, go off for a playoff run?

Isn't OKC banking on those things happening?

[EnoughSaid]

Yeah, you're probably right. Given their age, it's highly unlikely Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka get any better than they already are. All three are probably capped out as players.

:facepalm Dude, come on now. You know I didn't mean that. I'm just saying that OKC is not going to be at that same level as 2012 unless they sign another key guy to help out on offense, or as you said, Durant and Westbrook develop into great, great all around players.

[DMAVS41]

:facepalm Dude, come on now. You know I didn't mean that. I'm just saying that OKC is not going to be at that same level as 2012 unless they sign another key guy to help out on offense, or as you said, Durant and Westbrook develop into great, great all around players.

Durant and Westbrook already are great, great all around players. Certainly Westbrook is. Westbrook can create, score, rebound, and defend about as well as anyone in the league at his position. In fact....he's probably the best all around guard. Maybe Paul, but his defense has slipped a little the last two years. Doc will probably get him back to where he used to be though.

I can't wait to watch next year. I bet the Thunder win the West.

[KG215]

It's just really grinding on my nerves reading here, and other boards, that now this somehow means OKC is done, finished, etc. This was a very real possibility all along. What did people think was going to happen? Did you not realize that when he was traded, Martin had an expiring contract, and that's why Presti got Lamb in the trade?

And what do you mean develop into great all-around players? Durant's already on the verge of developing into a very good all-around player. He just had a 28-8-5 season and a 30-10-6 playoffs. Westbrook is arguably the best all-around PG in the NBA. Hell, he's probably one of the 3 best all-around guards (not just PG's) in the NBA. And they're both just 24 years old. It's not like their clock is about to expire.

I don't think people understand that under the new CBA, small market teams can't afford to be a repeat tax offender. The penalties are too steep. That's why they couldn't do more than offer Harden 4yr/$55M. He turned it down for the 5-year deal. Yes, it sucked. But people shutting the door on OKC for good are as ignorant as it gets. We've still got a the second best player on the planet, who's just 24 years old, another top 10 (borderline top 5) player who's just 24 years old, and a very good third piece in Ibaka who's just 23 years old.

But we let Martin walk in FA and, despite the major inconsistencies in the regular season, and the disappearing act in the playoffs, people think OKC is dead? People were saying the same thing last year after the Harden trade, too, and all we did was manage to go out and win 60 games, finish 1st in the West, and improve across the board in every offensive category. And there's a very good chance we would've been back in the Finals this year if Westbrook hadn't got hurt.

[KG215]

Durant and Westbrook already are great, great all around players. Certainly Westbrook is. Westbrook can create, score, rebound, and defend about as well as anyone in the league at his position. In fact....he's probably the best all around guard. Maybe Paul, but his defense has slipped a little the last two years. Doc will probably get him back to where he used to be though.

I can't wait to watch next year. I bet the Thunder win the West.
Nope, we lost Kevin Martin. Our title hopes are officially dead. His awful defense and the 14-3-1 38% FG statline he gave us in the playoffs (inflated by the only two really good games he had), despite getting even more touches and looks with Westbrook out, is going to be irreplaceable. I mean even without Russ and Martin being inconsistent (and bad more often than not), we still had a lead or within one possession late in the 4th quarter of every game against the Grizzlies.

[DMAVS41]

It's just really grinding on my nerves reading here,and other boards, that now this somehow means OKC is done, finished, etc. This was a very real possibility all along. What did people think was going to happen? Did you not realize that when he was traded, Martin had an expiring contract, and that's why Presti got Lamb in the trade?

And what do you mean develop into great all-around players? Durant's already on the verge of developing into a very good all-around player. He just had a 28-8-5 season and a 30-10-6 playoffs. Westbrook is arguably the best all-around PG in the NBA. Hell, he's probably one of the 3 best all-around guards (not just PG's) in the NBA. And they're both just 24 years old. It's not like their clock is about to expire.

I don't think people understand that under the new CBA, small market teams can't afford to be a repeat tax offender. The penalties are too sharp. That's why they couldn't do more than offer Harden 4yr/$55M. He turned it down for the 5-year deal. Yes, it sucked. But people shutting the door on OKC for good are as ignorant as it gets. We've still got a the second best player on the planet, who's just 24 years old, another top 10 (borderline top 5) player who's just 24 years old, and a very good third piece in Ibaka who's just 23 years old.

But we let Martin walk in FA and, despite the major inconsistencies in the regular season, and the disappearing act in the playoffs, people want to OKC is dead?

And none of it matters because they weren't winning shit with Harden last year anyway. Westbrook got hurt. So it doesn't even matter...not even worth talking about.

The true weakness of the Thunder is Scott Brooks. They either need to get rid of him or he needs to get better.

And the Thunder aren't done moving pieces around yet. I mean...who is the favorite to come out of the West if everyone is healthy next year? Thunder would be my favorite.

[Heavincent]

I'm sorry, but I don't think the Thunder won't have enough to win it all next year. After Durant, Westbrook, Sefoloshoa, and Ibaka, it's nothing but question marks on the roster. And Scott Brooks is their coach.

[KG215]

And did people forget Reggie Jackson's emergence the second half of the season and in the playoffs? We'll probably be closing games with a Westbrook-Jackson-Durant-Ibaka-Collison lineup quite a bit. And if we go small: Westbrook-Jackson-Lamb-Durant-Ibaka/Collison. Jackson was better than Martin in the playoffs.

[Heavincent]

And none of it matters because they weren't winning shit with Harden last year anyway. Westbrook got hurt. So it doesn't even matter...not even worth talking about.


Actually, if Harden stays on the Thunder, the Rockets don't make the playoffs thus Westbrook's injury never happens. Trading Harden to Houston essentially led to Westbrook's injury.

If only Presti had access to parallel dimensions.

[DMAVS41]

Actually, if Harden stays on the Thunder, the Rockets don't make the playoffs thus Westbrook's injury never happens. Trading Harden to Houston essentially led to Westbrook's injury.

If only Presti had access to parallel dimensions.

As long as you are making this argument as a joke...I find it funny.

But I actually had someone try to tell me that the trade was responsible for Westbrook's injury...

[Kujo]

How many guards does Minny need? :oldlol: Rubio, now possibly Martin, Barea, Shved, and Ridnour. I'm guessing they deal Ridnour, maybe Barea as well.

Let's a lot of coin for a 1 dimensional chucker. No way OKC matches that.

I'll interesting to see what OKC does. They'll need to replace Martin. I'm not buying Lamb is ready to take over is role just yet, though I'm sure he'll get minutes next season.

[SamuraiSWISH]

dat Harden trade
First thought in my mind. Besides the fact that by that 2012 season I felt he was the superior player to even Westbrook. Thing is coming back to bite them even harder if K-Martin bounces. I mean, if they kept Harden, I think they could've won that series v.s. Memphis.

[PickernRoller]

Actually, if Harden stays on the Thunder, the Rockets don't make the playoffs thus Westbrook's injury never happens. Trading Harden to Houston essentially led to Westbrook's injury.

If only Presti had access to parallel dimensions.

^...still thou, they should be good this coming season + they'll make a move or two.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

How many guards does Minny need? :oldlol: Rubio, now possibly Martin, Barea, Shved, and Ridnour. I'm guessing they deal Ridnour, maybe Barea as well.
5 isn't that many...(see the Kings...) especially considering Rubio and Martin are the only obvious starters.


I'll interesting to see what OKC does. That Harden trade just continues to look worse, and worse.
Can we wait to see how Lamb and Adams pan out first, please?

[SamuraiSWISH]

I'm sorry, but I don't think the Thunder won't have enough to win it all next year. After Durant, Westbrook, Sefoloshoa, and Ibaka, it's nothing but question marks on the roster. And Scott Brooks is their coach.
Questionable how Westbrook will be back from injury, no Kevin Martin, and yes Brooks as their coach still, the Western Conference (if Martin accepts) just became a lot more wide open. Best team remains the Spurs, by default, with Memphis banging on the door. Both teams need to make moves to stay competitive. I think the Eastern Conference is beginning to supplant the West as the superior conference.

[StocktonFan]

SHUT THE FCUK UP FUDGE!!!!!




ahole

Are you not 30+? Grow up

Kmart should accept this deal unless he wants a ring. In that case maybe pacers have something to offer.

[KG215]

First thought in my mind. Besides the fact that by that 2012 season I felt he was the superior player to even Westbrook. Thing is coming back to bite them even harder if K-Martin bounces. I mean, if they kept Harden, I think they could've won that series v.s. Memphis.
Harden was not better than Westbrook by 2012. I guess you could make a case for him over Westbrook this year, but I'd still take Westbrook because he at least plays defense while Harden doesn't do anything on that end of the floor that's even a semblance of defense.

[KG215]

I'm just failing to grasp how this makes OKC drastically worse. Martin was awful in the playoffs and inconsistent in the regular season. What's wrong with this rotation? Or, better yet, how is this much worse or any worse than last year if Lamb emerges?

Westbrook
Thabo
Durant
Ibaka
Perkins

Jackson
Collison
Lamb
Perry Jones
Thabeet
Adams

Unless I missed something, Jackson came on strong at the end of the year and outplayed Martin in the playoffs. Like I said, I'd rather be closing games with a Westbrook-Jackson-Thabo-Durant-Ibaka/Collison or Westbrook-Jackson-Durant-Ibaka-Collison lineup anyway. Thabo was just as consistent with his 3P shot as Martin, neither can create off the bounce, but Martin at least plays defense.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Will Brooks give Lamb some time next year? If so then they could replace Martin.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I'm just failing to grasp how this makes OKC drastically worse. Martin was awful in the playoffs and inconsistent in the regular season. What's wrong with this rotation? Or, better yet, how is this much worse or any worse than last year if Lamb emerges?

I agree and pretty much said the exact same thing in another thread. If Lamb, and even Adams or PJ3, develop in any sort of way this season, OKC will be just fine, possibly even better off than last season.

[juju151111]

And none of it matters because they weren't winning shit with Harden last year anyway. Westbrook got hurt. So it doesn't even matter...not even worth talking about.

The true weakness of the Thunder is Scott Brooks. They either need to get rid of him or he needs to get better.

And the Thunder aren't done moving pieces around yet. I mean...who is the favorite to come out of the West if everyone is healthy next year? Thunder would be my favorite.
Players get better and just because they lose one year doesn't mean they going to lose again. The main reason they lose was Harden got cold has hell. It wasn't even do to Miami defense. He was getting gimme layups and missing. I agree through Scott brooks need to go

[KG215]

Will Brooks give Lamb some time next year? If so then they could replace Martin.
I'm starting to think this was probably the plan all along back in October when he made the trade. Let Lamb develop in the D-League this year (which may not seem ideal but he played very well in the D-League) while Martin holds the spot down for one year, let Martin walk in the off-season, and move Lamb into the rotation this year. I mean it ultimately comes down to Brooks, and there's no telling with him, but I don't think he has much of a choice now. It's not like Martin was having a Harden-esque 6th MOY season or anything, and OKC still won 60 games and finished 1st in the West. Considering Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka will probably continue to improve, it's not like we'll need Lamb to completely replace Martin's production all by himself. Jackson will do most of that anyway.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Harden was not better than Westbrook by 2012. I guess you could make a case for him over Westbrook this year, but I'd still take Westbrook because he at least plays defense while Harden doesn't do anything on that end of the floor that's even a semblance of defense.
Ok, fair enough. But the Harden trade may still forever haunt this young franchise. They were on the cusp of something great, in a post 2008 league where it seems to win a ring you need at least three legit players. They gave him away, IMO, for no reason.

Heat - LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Allen
Spurs - Duncan, Leonard, Ginobili, Parker
Celtics - Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo
Mavericks - Dirk, Terry, Butler, Kidd
Lakers - Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum
Pacers - West, Hibbert, George
Nets - Garnett, Pierce, Johnson, D. Williams

It's proven, you need at least three guys now to win. The league is top heavy stacked with contenders or winners who had multiple game changing talents. Very much like the 80's era of super teams.

OKC could've been something very special with Durant, Westbrook, Harden. In my mind, they blew it up way too early.

[KG215]

I agree and pretty much said the exact same thing in another thread. If Lamb, and even Adams or PJ3, develop in any sort of way this season, OKC will be just fine, possibly even better off than last season.
If Reggie Jackson hadn't emerged the last half of the season, and especially in the playoffs (where he outplayed Martin and was our second most consistent/second best player), I'd be kind of worried.

[Young X]

First thought in my mind. Besides the fact that by that 2012 season I felt he was the superior player to even Westbrook. Thing is coming back to bite them even harder if K-Martin bounces. I mean, if they kept Harden, I think they could've won that series v.s. Memphis.
dat Harden trade might forever haunt OKC.

When you have 3 players like that on a team that keeps improving every year to the point that they make the finals, you do whatever you can to keep them together.

When you consider how bad Bosh played in the finals, OKC could've beaten Miami if they'd have kept Harden.

If it aint broke don't fix it.

[DMAVS41]

Players get better and just because they lose one year doesn't mean they going to lose again. The main reason they lose was Harden got cold has hell. It wasn't even do to Miami defense. He was getting gimme layups and missing. I agree through Scott brooks need to go

I wasn't saying that they would have lost last year if healthy with Westbrook and Harden. I was saying that they weren't going to win with Harden and Durant and no Westbrook because he got hurt.

I have said this many times. I called for Presti to trade Westbrook a while back because I thought the Thunder could find a better fit than the trio of Harden/Russ/Durant...and I thought Westbrook would have huge trade value.

But if they were committed to keeping Durant and Westbrook...then Ibaka or Harden had to go in my opinion. And I would have traded Harden as well...and I thought the deal they got was actually just fine. And I think the Westbrook injury is messing with people right now. The Thunder likely would have come out of the West with a healthy Westbrook. So I just don't think they regressed all that much. Martin was a 1 year filler in order to give them another shot at the title while also building towards the future at the same time.

And that is exactly what happened and was happening before Westbrook went down.

I like Lamb...and I like what the Thunder have built obviously...and there is room to improve for this coming year even more.

And if I had to pick one team to come out of the West with every team healthy...it would be the Thunder.

[KG215]

Ok, fair enough. But the Harden trade may still forever haunt this young franchise. They were on the cusp of something great, in a post 2008 league where it seems to win a ring you need at least three legit players. They gave him away, IMO, for no reason.

It's proven, you need at least three guys now to win. The league is top heavy stacked with contenders or winners who had multiple game changing talents. Very much like the 80's era of super teams.

Seems like you, like a lot of other people, are sleeping on Ibaka. I understand he has deficiencies, but I'm fairly confident, if he keeps improving at the same rate for another couple of seasons, he can be more than adequate as the 3rd best player if our two best players are as good as Durant and Westbrook and the other young guys (Jackson, Lamb, Jones, and Adams) develop and improve.


Pacers - West, Hibbert, George
As a whole, Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka are easily better than this trio.


Mavericks - Dirk, Terry, Butler, Kidd
And, again, Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka are better than that group. Not to mention Butler didn't even play in the 2011 playoffs when the Mavs won, and Kidd was just a good veteran role player. The Mavs didn't win because they had 3 really good players; or at least not because they had a 3-some better than Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka. They won because Dirk went God Mode, and Terry and the rest of the role players got hot in the playoffs and stepped-up their game.


Spurs - Duncan, Leonard, Ginobili, Parker
I didn't see anything that would have led me to believe OKC couldn't have beaten the Spurs, or at least taken them to 6 or 7 games, if Westbrook hadn't gotten hurt. Don't know why people are just assuming OKC wouldn't have gotten back to the Finals if Russ hadn't gotten hurt after a 60-win season where they actually were better than the year before.


Nets - Garnett, Pierce, Johnson, D. Williams
They haven't even played a game together, yet, so I don't know why you included them.

I'll give you the Heat, but the only team that's beaten them so far are the Mavericks, who didn't have 3 very good players.

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone or something, and people have just forgotten or don't realize how great Durant and Westbrook already are at just 24 years old. I don't know why they'd need a great trio with two players that good; especially when the best player on the team is the second best player on the planet and probably hasn't even peaked yet.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Ok, fair enough. But the Harden trade may still forever haunt this young franchise. They were on the cusp of something great, in a post 2008 league where it seems to win a ring you need at least three legit players. They gave him away, IMO, for no reason.

Heat - LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Allen
Spurs - Duncan, Leonard, Ginobili, Parker
Celtics - Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo
Mavericks - Dirk, Terry, Butler, Kidd
Lakers - Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum
Pacers - West, Hibbert, George
Nets - Garnett, Pierce, Johnson, D. Williams

It's proven, you need at least three guys now to win. The league is top heavy stacked with contenders or winners who had multiple game changing talents. Very much like the 80's era of super teams.

OKC could've been something very special with Durant, Westbrook, Harden. In my mind, they blew it up way too early.
ok...

1. the post-2008 era you need 3 "legit players"? How about since the 80s every title team has had 2 stars/elite players except the Pistons? They were the exception. This really isn't anything new. Hell, arguably the Mavs, too...

2. there are always exceptions. Don't say "it's proven" when it's simply a correlation.

3. Kidd, Butler, and Jason Terry (why not include Chandler or Marion?)? Leonard? Allen for the 1 season he was w/ the Heat? Are we talking stars here or just "legit players"? Plenty of teams have 3+ "legit" players and don't even make the playoffs. Just last year - Mavs had Dirk, Mayo, Marion. Jazz had Jefferson, Millsap, Hayward (he's about same level as Kawhi, just doesn't get the pub). Hell, BLAZERS had Lillard, LMA, and JJ Hickson. that list is just, so biased to focus only on contenders... :facepalm

4. your whole post is stupid. Though I like the point it was trying to make. :cheers:

[went_worth]

Ricky-Martin starting guard duo for Minnesota. :lol

[DMAVS41]

Seems like you, like a lot of other people, are sleeping on Ibaka. I understand he has deficiencies, but I'm fairly confident, if he keeps improving at the same rate for another couple of seasons, he can be more than adequate as the 3rd best player if our two best players are as good as Durant and Westbrook and the other young guys (Jackson, Lamb, Jones, and Adams) develop and improve.


As a whole, Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka are easily better than this trio.


And, again, Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka are better than that group. Not to mention Butler didn't even play in the 2011 playoffs when the Mavs won, and Kidd was just a good veteran role player. The Mavs didn't win because they had 3 really good players; or at least not because they had a 3-some better than Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka. They won because Dirk went God Mode, and Terry and the rest of the role players got hot in the playoffs and stepped-up their game.


I didn't see anything that would have led me to believe OKC couldn't have beaten the Spurs, or at least taken them to 6 or 7 games, if Westbrook hadn't gotten hurt. Don't know why people are just assuming OKC wouldn't have gotten back to the Finals if Russ hadn't gotten hurt after a 60-win season where they actually were better than the year before.


They haven't even played a game together, yet, so I don't know why you included them.

I'll give you the Heat, but the only team that's beaten them so far are the Mavericks, who didn't have 3 very good players.

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone or something, and people have just forgotten or don't realize how great Durant and Westbrook already are at just 24 years old. I don't know why they'd need a great trio with two players that good; especially when the best player on the team is the second best player on the planet and probably hasn't even peaked yet.

People are just stupid and jumping on the "Bill Simmons" narrative that it was the the dumbest trade ever. It wasn't. You don't want another ball dominant guard to play with Westbrook and Durant. It just doesn't even make sense to begin with. It's actually a worse trio in terms of chemistry than Bosh/Lebron/Wade....people want there to be 3 perimeter guys on the same team...and Harden has a clear aversion to playing defense as well.

It's just not a great fit...on either end. The Heat trio isn't a great fit either, but at least Lebron and Wade wreak havoc on defense and that is what makes it a great fit. That wasn't happening with those 3 in OKC.

The Thunder don't need more scoring or offense anyway. They need to just continue to get better and fill out the roster with a few better defenders/shooters...and someone to play a bit more at center instead of Perk.

Not to mention all the rumblings of benching Westbrook in favor of Harden that started happening. Oh...and how long was Harden going to want to come off the bench? And in the playoffs it's hard because Durant and Westbrook are out on the floor so often...and if Westbrook doesn't have the ball...he's not that good.

Again...Thunder likely win the West last year if Westbrook doesn't get hurt and they will likely win it this coming year as well.

[DMAVS41]

Ok, fair enough. But the Harden trade may still forever haunt this young franchise. They were on the cusp of something great, in a post 2008 league where it seems to win a ring you need at least three legit players. They gave him away, IMO, for no reason.

Heat - LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Allen
Spurs - Duncan, Leonard, Ginobili, Parker
Celtics - Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo
Mavericks - Dirk, Terry, Butler, Kidd
Lakers - Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum
Pacers - West, Hibbert, George
Nets - Garnett, Pierce, Johnson, D. Williams

It's proven, you need at least three guys now to win. The league is top heavy stacked with contenders or winners who had multiple game changing talents. Very much like the 80's era of super teams.

OKC could've been something very special with Durant, Westbrook, Harden. In my mind, they blew it up way too early.

Literally the funniest thing I've read. The Mavs didn't even have Butler in the playoffs and Kidd was nothing more than a role player. ROFL...

[KG215]

And this is to just back-up why this doesn't bother me or worry me. Martin progressively got worse as the season went on. He came out of the gates hot, and it just went downhill from there. I know not everyone wants to or gets to watch almost every Thunder game like I do, but OKC fans, by January or February, were pretty fed-up with Martin's inconsistency and clamoring for Lamb to get a shot.


November - December: 15.6 PPG, 2.6 RPG, 1.6 APG, 1.0 SPG, .454 FG%, .454 3P%, .926 FT%, .634 TS%

January - April: 13.0 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 1.3 APG, 0.9 SPG, .447 FG%, .409 3P%, .855 FT%, .590 TS%

Post All-Star Break: 12.1 PPG, 2.4 RPG, 1.6 APG, 0.8 SPG, .441 FG%, .402 3P%, .855 FT%, .585 TS%


OKC got off to a 24-5 start in November and December, but part of that was due to a favorable, home-heavy schedule. Martin playing well obviously helped. And while the records from January on, and post All-Star break aren't as good, we still went 33-15 from January on and 19-7 after the All-Star break with Martin being very inconsistent and his play dropping-off quite a bit; and part of the problem post All-Star break was Durant slumping/struggling in March.

[B-Easy8]

This is great for us.

Probably paid a bit too much but the only other viable option was OJ which from all reports and my own viewing was hot garbage last season.

Martin, Budinger and Bazz provide us with the wing scoring and shooting that we desperately needed around our big frontcourt and Ricky.

[FireMcFailPlease]

How many guards does Minny need? :oldlol: Rubio, now possibly Martin, Barea, Shved, and Ridnour. I'm guessing they deal Ridnour, maybe Barea as well.

L.
you really need to move on from the 2009 jokes.

Minnesota has an ideal amount of guards

[SamuraiSWISH]

Literally the funniest thing I've read. The Mavs didn't even have Butler in the playoffs and Kidd was nothing more than a role player. ROFL...
Kidd was putting up basically 10 ppg, 7 apg, 4 rpg, and 2 spg in the 2010 - 2011 post season. That's a run of the mill role player to you?

[raprap]

Ricky-Martin starting guard duo for Minnesota. :lol
:lol

[KG215]

Kidd was putting up basically 10 ppg, 7 apg, 4 rpg, and 2 spg in the 2010 - 2011 post season. That's a run of the mill role player to you?
But your point was that the Mavs won in 2011 because they had 3 really good players, something OKC apparently doesn't have. Why can't OKC get something along those lines of production from Ibaka (or maybe Jackson or Lamb) while also getting similar Dirk-type numbers from Durant, and Westbrook giving them better production than the Mavs got from Terry? Westbrook's a better player than Terry's ever been, and Durant is quickly gaining on any version of Dirk.

[DMAVS41]

Kidd was putting up basically 10 ppg, 7 apg, 4 rpg, and 2 spg in the 2010 - 2011 post season. That's a run of the mill role player to you?

Why do you have to insert "run of the mill"?

He was a role player. Certainly not part of a big 3. Hell, he might not have been one of the 4 best players on that roster. Dirk, Terry, and Chandler were all better overall in my opinion. And Marion might have been as impactful as well.

Kidd was great for his role. And his role was that of a role player. Putting up 9/7/5 just isn't even close to enough to warrant a comparison to you saying teams need a big 3.

Using the 11 Mavs as an example of that is just idiotic, but including Butler in the list just takes the cake for one of the dumber things said on here in a while.

[DMAVS41]

But your point was that the Mavs won in 2011 because they had 3 really good players, something OKC apparently doesn't have. Why can't OKC get something along those lines of production from Ibaka (or maybe Jackson or Lamb) while also getting similar Dirk-type numbers from Durant, and Westbrook giving them better production than the Mavs got from Terry? Westbrook's a better player than Terry's ever been, and Durant is quickly gaining on any version of Dirk.

Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka is clearly a better trio than Dirk/Terry/Any other player on the 11 Mavs roster.

It's not even debatable.

[FireMcFailPlease]

But your point was that the Mavs won in 2011 because they had 3 really good players, something OKC apparently doesn't have. Why can't OKC get something along those lines of production from Ibaka (or maybe Jackson or Lamb) while also getting similar Dirk-type numbers from Durant, and Westbrook giving them better production than the Mavs got from Terry? Westbrook's a better player than Terry's ever been, and Durant is quickly gaining on any version of Dirk.
Maybe Carslile is that much better of a coach than Brooks

[JimmyMcAdocious]

You replace Mavs Chandler with Ibaka for a series against Miami and OKC would be better off.

[Heavincent]

Maybe Carslile is that much better of a coach than Brooks

Maybe?

[KG215]

Maybe Carslile is that much better of a coach than Brooks
There's no maybe about. Carlisle is one of the 3-5 best coaches in the NBA and Brooks is in the bottom 1/3rd. But his point was that you need 3 really good players to win a championship in today's NBA, and brings up the '11 Mavs like their 3 best players were better than Durant-Westbrook-Ibaka.

[BlazerRed]

Good for K-Mart, Bad for MIN & OKC.

This guys is over rated though. Interesting to see if he takes the money or takes less to win a 'Ship...

I say he takes the money...
Most OKC fans want him gone. I reckon they should let him go too. Martin was basically a spot up 3 point shooter last year.. They should play and develop Lamb instead who can bring nearly as much as Martin on a FAR smaller contact. Sign Martin at 7mil and the Thunder have no room to move.

[KG215]

Most OKC fans want him gone. I reckon they should let him go too. Martin was basically a spot up 3 point shooter last year.. They should play and develop Lamb instead who can bring nearly as much as Martin on a FAR smaller contact. Sign Martin at 7mil and the Thunder have no room to move.
Which was probably the plan all along last October when Presti made the trade unless Martin was willing to sign for $4M-$5M/year; but now that he's officially gone people are overreacting and acting like this is the end for OKC.