How long will it take for Kobe to demand a trade if Dwight Howard leaves?

[TonyMontana]

I'll say 2 months into the season TOPS.

[secund2nun]

Without Howard they will have a .500 record at best. If Howard leaves and they amnesty Gasol they will be a lottery team. He will probably wait until 2014 to leave if Howard leaves and they can't sign top free agents.

[KingLeBronJames]

Why would they do that since they already improved the team? They do have a way better roster than in '06 and '07.

[kennethgriffin]

sometimes less is more


like with wade/bron on the floor having a bad +/- together



i think kobe/nash/gasol or kobe/nash/howard is 10 times better than kobe/nash/howard/gasol

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Kobe probably just wants that scoring record now. He might want to just chuck up 40 shots a game carefree without a Dwight complaining in the media.

[RandyMarsh1]

sometimes less is more


like with wade/bron on the floor having a bad +/- together



i think kobe/nash/gasol or kobe/nash/howard is 10 times better than kobe/nash/howard/gasol

Not really...Wade and Bron play the style and have the same role

Where as the Lakers 4 players are completely different

[Jacks3]

how long will it take before OP stops making dumbass threads?

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe probably just wants that scoring record now. He might want to just chuck up 40 shots a game carefree without a Dwight complaining in the media.


well he already has 5 rings

what he doesnt have is the greatest nba record of all time tho

i'm sure 5 rings and kareems legendary mark is better than 6 rings and 3rd all time leading scorer

its like having 5 titles and 800 homeruns

or 5 superbowl rings and the most touchdowns ever


just goes well together and helps his goat status more

[SpecialQue]

Bed, Bed I couldn't go to bed

[TonyMontana]

Why would they do that since they already improved the team? They do have a way better roster than in '06 and '07.

Kobe has never won a playoff series without a dominant two-way playing hall of fame 7 footer in their prime on his team.

Dwight Howard is the top center in the league when hes healthy and when he goes so does Kobes hopes of being relevant. Kobe couldn't muster anything more than a 7th seed WITH HIM, let alone without him.

[SpecialQue]

My head's to light to try to set it down

[SpecialQue]

Sleep, Sleep I couldn't sleep tonight

[SpecialQue]

Not for all the jewels in the crown

[Psycho]

Not for all the jewels in the crown

Your spam just keeps his thread on the front page longer.

[SpecialQue]

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/e/0/3/e035a08e616468d1b0500bc12dcc11e9.gifhttp://content.ytmnd.com/content/e/0/3/e035a08e616468d1b0500bc12dcc11e9.gif
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[kennethgriffin]

Kobe has never won a playoff series without a dominant two-way playing hall of fame 7 footer in their prime on his team.

Dwight Howard is the top center in the league when hes healthy and when he goes so does Kobes hopes of being relevant. Kobe couldn't muster anything more than a 7th seed WITH HIM, let alone without him.


pau gasol is a crap defender, soft as hell, and even in his prime he was never a superstar or dominant in any way shape or form. he was a reserve allstar a few times, the highlight of his career was making the third team all nba. hes not a hall of famer as an nba player. only as an international contributor to the game at best


4 total reserve allstar games in well over a decade is nothing impressive

now gtfo

[SpecialQue]

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/e/0/3/e035a08e616468d1b0500bc12dcc11e9.gifhttp://content.ytmnd.com/content/e/0/3/e035a08e616468d1b0500bc12dcc11e9.gif
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[TonyMontana]

This message is hidden because SpecialQue is on your ignore list.

your spam is irrelevant, just like Kobes NBA career. Keep it up if it helps you sleep better kid. :oldlol:


well he already has 5 rings

what he doesnt have is the greatest nba record of all time tho

i'm sure 5 rings and kareems legendary mark is better than 6 rings and 3rd all time leading scorer

its like having 5 titles and 800 homeruns

or 5 superbowl rings and the most touchdowns ever


just goes well together and helps his goat status more

Noone cares about longevity awards.

Only way for Kobe to increase his all-time ranking is to actually become a better player. And we all know thats not happening. :oldlol:


pau gasol is a crap defender, soft as hell, and even in his prime he was never a superstar or dominant in any way shape or form. he was a reserve allstar a few times, the highlight of his career was making the third team all nba. hes not a hall of famer as an nba player. only as an international contributor to the game at best


4 total reserve allstar games in well over a decade is nothing impressive

now gtfo

What NBA Team from 08-10 had a better or equal frontcourt to LA in that span?

Other than Boston who beat them the one year their frontcourt wasn't hurt.

Keep in mind Kobe isn't even a frontcourt player so you can't say hes the reason they were the best. :oldlol:

[SpecialQue]

Tell me, O muse, of that ingenious hero who travelled far and wide after he had sacked the famous town of Troy. Many cities did he visit, and many were the nations with whose manners and customs he was acquainted; moreover he suffered much by sea while trying to save his own life and bring his men safely home; but do what he might he could not save his men, for they perished through their own sheer folly in eating the cattle of the Sun-god Hyperion; so the god prevented them from ever reaching home. Tell me, too, about all these things, O daughter of Jove, from whatsoever source you may know them.

So now all who escaped death in battle or by shipwreck had got safely home except Ulysses, and he, though he was longing to return to his wife and country, was detained by the goddess Calypso, who had got him into a large cave and wanted to marry him. But as years went by, there came a time when the gods settled that he should go back to Ithaca; even then, however, when he was among his own people, his troubles were not yet over; nevertheless all the gods had now begun to pity him except Neptune, who still persecuted him without ceasing and would not let him get home.

Now Neptune had gone off to the Ethiopians, who are at the world's end, and lie in two halves, the one looking West and the other East. He had gone there to accept a hecatomb of sheep and oxen, and was enjoying himself at his festival; but the other gods met in the house of Olympian Jove, and the sire of gods and men spoke first. At that moment he was thinking of Aegisthus, who had been killed by Agamemnon's son Orestes; so he said to the other gods:

"See now, how men lay blame upon us gods for what is after all nothing but their own folly. Look at Aegisthus; he must needs make love to Agamemnon's wife unrighteously and then kill Agamemnon, though he knew it would be the death of him; for I sent Mercury to warn him not to do either of these things, inasmuch as Orestes would be sure to take his revenge when he grew up and wanted to return home. Mercury told him this in all good will but he would not listen, and now he has paid for everything in full."

Then Minerva said, "Father, son of Saturn, King of kings, it served Aegisthus right, and so it would any one else who does as he did; but Aegisthus is neither here nor there; it is for Ulysses that my heart bleeds, when I think of his sufferings in that lonely sea-girt island, far away, poor man, from all his friends. It is an island covered with forest, in the very middle of the sea, and a goddess lives there, daughter of the magician Atlas, who looks after the bottom of the ocean, and carries the great columns that keep heaven and earth asunder. This daughter of Atlas has got hold of poor unhappy Ulysses, and keeps trying by every kind of blandishment to make him forget his home, so that he is tired of life, and thinks of nothing but how he may once more see the smoke of his own chimneys. You, sir, take no heed of this, and yet when Ulysses was before Troy did he not propitiate you with many a burnt sacrifice? Why then should you keep on being so angry with him?"

And Jove said, "My child, what are you talking about? How can I forget Ulysses than whom there is no more capable man on earth, nor more liberal in his offerings to the immortal gods that live in heaven? Bear in mind, however, that Neptune is still furious with Ulysses for having blinded an eye of Polyphemus king of the Cyclopes. Polyphemus is son to Neptune by the nymph Thoosa, daughter to the sea-king Phorcys; therefore though he will not kill Ulysses outright, he torments him by preventing him from getting home. Still, let us lay our heads together and see how we can help him to return; Neptune will then be pacified, for if we are all of a mind he can hardly stand out against us."

And Minerva said, "Father, son of Saturn, King of kings, if, then, the gods now mean that Ulysses should get home, we should first send Mercury to the Ogygian island to tell Calypso that we have made up our minds and that he is to return. In the meantime I will go to Ithaca, to put heart into Ulysses' son Telemachus; I will embolden him to call the Achaeans in assembly, and speak out to the suitors of his mother Penelope, who persist in eating up any number of his sheep and oxen; I will also conduct him to Sparta and to Pylos, to see if he can hear anything about the return of his dear father- for this will make people speak well of him."

[SpecialQue]

So saying she bound on her glittering golden sandals, imperishable, with which she can fly like the wind over land or sea; she grasped the redoubtable bronze-shod spear, so stout and sturdy and strong, wherewith she quells the ranks of heroes who have displeased her, and down she darted from the topmost summits of Olympus, whereon forthwith she was in Ithaca, at the gateway of Ulysses' house, disguised as a visitor, Mentes, chief of the Taphians, and she held a bronze spear in her hand. There she found the lordly suitors seated on hides of the oxen which they had killed and eaten, and playing draughts in front of the house. Men-servants and pages were bustling about to wait upon them, some mixing wine with water in the mixing-bowls, some cleaning down the tables with wet sponges and laying them out again, and some cutting up great quantities of meat.

Telemachus saw her long before any one else did. He was sitting moodily among the suitors thinking about his brave father, and how he would send them flying out of the house, if he were to come to his own again and be honoured as in days gone by. Thus brooding as he sat among them, he caught sight of Minerva and went straight to the gate, for he was vexed that a stranger should be kept waiting for admittance. He took her right hand in his own, and bade her give him her spear. "Welcome," said he, "to our house, and when you have partaken of food you shall tell us what you have come for."

He led the way as he spoke, and Minerva followed him. When they were within he took her spear and set it in the spear- stand against a strong bearing-post along with the many other spears of his unhappy father, and he conducted her to a richly decorated seat under which he threw a cloth of damask. There was a footstool also for her feet, and he set another seat near her for himself, away from the suitors, that she might not be annoyed while eating by their noise and insolence, and that he might ask her more freely about his father.

A maid servant then brought them water in a beautiful golden ewer and poured it into a silver basin for them to wash their hands, and she drew a clean table beside them. An upper servant brought them bread, and offered them many good things of what there was in the house, the carver fetched them plates of all manner of meats and set cups of gold by their side, and a man-servant brought them wine and poured it out for them.

Then the suitors came in and took their places on the benches and seats. Forthwith men servants poured water over their hands, maids went round with the bread-baskets, pages filled the mixing-bowls with wine and water, and they laid their hands upon the good things that were before them. As soon as they had had enough to eat and drink they wanted music and dancing, which are the crowning embellishments of a banquet, so a servant brought a lyre to Phemius, whom they compelled perforce to sing to them. As soon as he touched his lyre and began to sing Telemachus spoke low to Minerva, with his head close to hers that no man might hear.

"I hope, sir," said he, "that you will not be offended with what I am going to say. Singing comes cheap to those who do not pay for it, and all this is done at the cost of one whose bones lie rotting in some wilderness or grinding to powder in the surf. If these men were to see my father come back to Ithaca they would pray for longer legs rather than a longer purse, for money would not serve them; but he, alas, has fallen on an ill fate, and even when people do sometimes say that he is coming, we no longer heed them; we shall never see him again. And now, sir, tell me and tell me true, who you are and where you come from. Tell me of your town and parents, what manner of ship you came in, how your crew brought you to Ithaca, and of what nation they declared themselves to be- for you cannot have come by land. Tell me also truly, for I want to know, are you a stranger to this house, or have you been here in my father's time? In the old days we had many visitors for my father went about much himself."

[kennethgriffin]

This message is hidden because SpecialQue is on your ignore list.

your spam is irrelevant



Noone cares about longevity awards.

Only way for Kobe to increase his all-time ranking is to actually become a better player. And we all know thats not happening. :oldlol:


oh i'm pretty sure people care about the all time leading scoring record


it has nothing to do with just sticking around. you can't just be healthy and hit 38k

you gotta average pretty much 25+ppg for 2 decades son

get a clue


99% of hof legends could only manage that for one decade

kobe and kareem are on another level

[SpecialQue]

And Minerva answered, "I will tell you truly and particularly all about it. I am Mentes, son of Anchialus, and I am King of the Taphians. I have come here with my ship and crew, on a voyage to men of a foreign tongue being bound for Temesa with a cargo of iron, and I shall bring back copper. As for my ship, it lies over yonder off the open country away from the town, in the harbour Rheithron under the wooded mountain Neritum. Our fathers were friends before us, as old Laertes will tell you, if you will go and ask him. They say, however, that he never comes to town now, and lives by himself in the country, faring hardly, with an old woman to look after him and get his dinner for him, when he comes in tired from pottering about his vineyard. They told me your father was at home again, and that was why I came, but it seems the gods are still keeping him back, for he is not dead yet not on the mainland. It is more likely he is on some sea-girt island in mid ocean, or a prisoner among savages who are detaining him against his will I am no prophet, and know very little about omens, but I speak as it is borne in upon me from heaven, and assure you that he will not be away much longer; for he is a man of such resource that even though he were in chains of iron he would find some means of getting home again. But tell me, and tell me true, can Ulysses really have such a fine looking fellow for a son? You are indeed wonderfully like him about the head and eyes, for we were close friends before he set sail for Troy where the flower of all the Argives went also. Since that time we have never either of us seen the other."

"My mother," answered Telemachus, tells me I am son to Ulysses, but it is a wise child that knows his own father. Would that I were son to one who had grown old upon his own estates, for, since you ask me, there is no more ill-starred man under heaven than he who they tell me is my father."

And Minerva said, "There is no fear of your race dying out yet, while Penelope has such a fine son as you are. But tell me, and tell me true, what is the meaning of all this feasting, and who are these people? What is it all about? Have you some banquet, or is there a wedding in the family- for no one seems to be bringing any provisions of his own? And the guests- how atrociously they are behaving; what riot they make over the whole house; it is enough to disgust any respectable person who comes near them."

"Sir," said Telemachus, "as regards your question, so long as my father was here it was well with us and with the house, but the gods in their displeasure have willed it otherwise, and have hidden him away more closely than mortal man was ever yet hidden. I could have borne it better even though he were dead, if he had fallen with his men before Troy, or had died with friends around him when the days of his fighting were done; for then the Achaeans would have built a mound over his ashes, and I should myself have been heir to his renown; but now the storm-winds have spirited him away we know not wither; he is gone without leaving so much as a trace behind him, and I inherit nothing but dismay. Nor does the matter end simply with grief for the loss of my father; heaven has laid sorrows upon me of yet another kind; for the chiefs from all our islands, Dulichium, Same, and the woodland island of Zacynthus, as also all the principal men of Ithaca itself, are eating up my house under the pretext of paying their court to my mother, who will neither point blank say that she will not marry, nor yet bring matters to an end; so they are making havoc of my estate, and before long will do so also with myself."

[KingLeBronJames]

Kobe has never won a playoff series without a dominant two-way playing hall of fame 7 footer in their prime on his team.

Dwight Howard is the top center in the league when hes healthy and when he goes so does Kobes hopes of being relevant. Kobe couldn't muster anything more than a 7th seed WITH HIM, let alone without him.
Pau is a dominant center? :facepalm He's not even close to being a dominant center. What's next? You're gonna say "Robert Parish was a dominant center?" "Andrew Bynum was a dominant center?"

[SpecialQue]

http://kterrl.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/936full-kate-upton.jpg

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[kennethgriffin]

This message is hidden because SpecialQue is on your ignore list.

your spam is irrelevant, just like Kobes NBA career. Keep it up if it helps you sleep better kid. :oldlol:



Noone cares about longevity awards.

Only way for Kobe to increase his all-time ranking is to actually become a better player. And we all know thats not happening. :oldlol:



What NBA Team from 08-10 had a better or equal frontcourt to LA in that span?

Other than Boston who beat them the one year their frontcourt wasn't hurt.

Keep in mind Kobe isn't even a frontcourt player so you can't say hes the reason they were the best. :oldlol:


it was just gasol and odom


bynum didn't even play

6ppg in the 2009 playoffs
8ppg in the 2010 playoffs... his first real healthy productive year came after the lakers were done winning titles



and i wouldnt call a reserve allstar gasol 18ppg no defense playin softy + lamar never been an allstar in his career odom as such an overwhelming front court..

you're actling like kobe had prime duncan/robinson on his side


lol



its gasol and odom.


gasol is a top 80-90 player all time.... odom isnt even top 200 all time



kobe won with a team full of mostly jordan farmars and sasha vujacic's

[TonyMontana]

Pau is a dominant center? :facepalm He's not even close to being a dominant center. What's next? You're gonna say "Robert Parish was a dominant center?" "Andrew Bynum was a dominant center?"

What bigman was better than Pau in 08-10?

There's Dwight Howard.....and Dirk. Pau is right in that class. His length and wingspan makes him a good rim protector and he is pretty good post defender.

He had the best low post moves in the NBA when they were winning and his passing was utilized great in the triangle. Top 3 BIGMAN in the NBA, a league where bigman is what wins.

3 years before Gasol: 0 playoff series won
3 years after Gasol: 11 playoff series won

Gasol going to LA was the biggest transaction of the past 15 years after LeBron going to Miami.

[TonyMontana]

it was just gasol and odom


bynum didn't even play

6ppg in the 2009 playoffs
8ppg in the 2010 playoffs... his first real healthy productive year came after the lakers were done winning titles



and i wouldnt call a reserve allstar gasol 18ppg no defense playin softy + lamar never been an allstar in his career odom as such an overwhelming front court..

you're actling like kobe had prime duncan/robinson on his side


lol



its gasol and odom.


gasol is a top 80-90 player all time.... odom isnt even top 200 all time



kobe won with a team full of mostly jordan farmars and sasha vujacic's

You didn't answer my question.

Which other NBA team had a frontcourt that was as good as LAs. Bostons was hurt the two years LA won the title.

You can downplay thme all you want, but the fact is LA was a dominant team because noone could match up with their length on the frontline.

[kennethgriffin]

What bigman was better than Pau in 08-10?

There's Dwight Howard.....and Dirk. Pau is right in that class. His length and wingspan makes him a good rim protector and he is pretty good post defender.

He had the best low post moves in the NBA when they were winning and his passing was utilized great in the triangle. Top 3 BIGMAN in the NBA, a league where bigman is what wins.

3 years before Gasol: 0 playoff series won
3 years after Gasol: 11 playoff series won

Gasol going to LA was the biggest transaction of the past 15 years after LeBron going to Miami.


jordans record without a great team or a good sidekick is pretty awful too..

kobe with kwame/smush isnt winning anything

jordan with kwame/smush wouldnt win anything either




kobe with gasol gets titles. but that doesnt automatically make gasol a legendary big. it just means he played well and helped win a title



are you really this poor of a basketball fan to still not know these things? common man i'm sure you've had this exact same conversation 1000000000000000 times on this board alone


quit rehashing the same bs arguments man


lol fuc*kin f@g


i'm out

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

Kobe has never won a playoff series without a dominant two-way playing hall of fame 7 footer in their prime on his team.

Dwight Howard is the top center in the league when hes healthy and when he goes so does Kobes hopes of being relevant. Kobe couldn't muster anything more than a 7th seed WITH HIM, let alone without him.
:wtf: :oldlol: Pau was never dominant, bro. He never had a dominating performance. Making sound like he's Shaq, KG, Duncan or Kevin Love. Pau in '08-'10 is on the same level as Chris Bosh through out his career and Amar'e (During the Suns days).

[TonyMontana]

:wtf: :oldlol: Pau was never dominant, bro. He never had a dominating performance. Making sound like he's Shaq, KG, Duncan or Kevin Love. Pau in '08-'10 is on the same level as Chris Bosh through out his career and Amar'e (During the Suns days).

You are telling me it is not a coincidence that LA missed the playoffs and lost in the first round twice in the 3 years prior to Gasol while they make the Finals 3 consecutive years(with 2 titles) as soon as they acquire him?

Your telling me the reason LA became a 3 year Finalist and two time champion is because Kobe suddenly got better?

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[MJ23forever]

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2673/4161124626_445c726e18_o.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

You are telling me it is not a coincidence that LA missed the playoffs and lost in the first round twice in the 3 years prior to Gasol while they make the Finals 3 consecutive years(with 2 titles) as soon as they acquire him?

Your telling me the reason LA became a 3 year Finalist and two time champion is because Kobe suddenly got better?

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

they were in 1st place for most of the year before gasol got there in 2008

the lakers were in a rebuilding process and slowly getting better

10 new players out of 12 compared from 2004 to 2005

kobe and george were the only 2 guys who stayed

the team started off crappy due to having a bum coach that quit the team ( rudy t ) and a crap replacement

they had chucky atkens as their starting pg.. he sucks.. they replaced him with smush... he sucks

kwame was their main center



when they got phil back, then bynum started to break through.. then fisher came back.. this is when they started to climb.

then gasol was the final piece they got to change the team from a boarderline contender to a championship club


know your history son. what are you f*ckin 12 years old?

[KG215]

I'll say 2 months into the season TOPS.
Three months and nearly 800 posts in, and you've yet to provide anything useful, insightful, or even noteworthy.

But keep trying. I'm sure you'll eventually, accidentally, post something good.

[Heavincent]

http://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/lucy-pinder-gif-1.gif

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[TonyMontana]

they were in 1st place for most of the year before gasol got there in 2008

the lakers were in a rebuilding process and slowly getting better

10 new players out of 12 compared from 2004 to 2005

kobe and george were the only 2 guys who stayed

the team started off crappy due to having a bum coach that quit the team ( rudy t ) and a crap replacement

they had chucky atkens as their starting pg.. he sucks.. they replaced him with smush... he sucks

kwame was their main center



when they got phil back, then bynum started to break through.. then fisher came back.. this is when they started to climb.

then gasol was the final piece they got to change the team from a boarderline contender to a championship club


know your history son. what are you f*ckin 12 years old?




If Kobe is as good as you say, don't you think your Black Mamba would be able to get just ONE playoff victory in his prime in a 3 year span? This is in HIS PRIME.

Is Prime Shaq missing the playoffs or even losing in the first round for 3 consecutive years WITH GOAT coach Phil Jackson, 15 PPG 9 RPG Lamar Odom, and 15 PPG Caron Butler on their team? How about Tim Duncan or LeBron? Are they losing in the first round(or even missing the playoffs!!) for 3 consecutive years. Thats why its a ****ing joke that anyone wants to put Kobe in the same conversation as these REAL legends.

ROOKIE Wade pretty much took Kobes 2005 cast of Odom, Butler, Brian Grant to the second round of the playoffs. Prime Kobe couldn't even make the playoffs. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Ca$H]

I have a vestigial schlong.


:biggums:

[VIntageNOvel]

Tonymontana (pauk) and kenneth debate :applause:

can we just seal the thread off and burn it down with both of them inside :cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

If Kobe is as good as you say, don't you think your Black Mamba would be able to get just ONE playoff victory in his prime in a 3 year span? This is in HIS PRIME.

Is Prime Shaq missing the playoffs or even losing in the first round for 3 consecutive years WITH GOAT coach Phil Jackson, 15 PPG 9 RPG Lamar Odom, and 15 PPG Caron Butler on their team? How about Tim Duncan or LeBron? Are they losing in the first round(or even missing the playoffs!!) for 3 consecutive years. Thats why its a ****ing joke that anyone wants to put Kobe in the same conversation as these REAL legends.

ROOKIE Wade pretty much took Kobes 2005 cast of Odom, Butler, Brian Grant to the second round of the playoffs. Prime Kobe couldn't even make the playoffs. :oldlol: :oldlol:


oh i'm sorry

i guess i'l have to start over


05 - kobe injured, missed half the year ( 10 out of 12 new players, coach quit )

06 and 07 - kwame brown, smush parker were starters. team was garbage




get it?

how does a guy do more than average 35/5/5 with 1st team all defense on top of it


get it now? the team was bad. jordans the goat but even he couldnt win when his team was garbage

nobody wins by themselves

even the best player needs atleast a good 2nd fiddle. kobe got gasol who was that guy.


i've never said kobe didnt need gasol. i'm just pointing out that he only had a few reserve allstar games, 2 third team awards, and was soft on defense.

other than that he was really good


but not legendary like you make him out to be

[TonyMontana]

oh i'm sorry

i guess i'l have to start over


05 - kobe injured, missed half the year ( 10 out of 12 new players, coach quit )

06 and 07 - kwame brown, smush parker were starters. team was garbage




get it?

how does a guy do more than average 35/5/5 with 1st team all defense on top of it


get it now? the team was bad. jordans the goat but even he couldnt win when his team was garbage

nobody wins by themselves

even the best player needs atleast a good 2nd fiddle. kobe got gasol who was that guy.


i've never said kobe didnt need gasol. i'm just pointing out that he only had a few reserve allstar games, 2 third team awards, and was soft on defense.

other than that he was really good


but not legendary like you make him out to be

I'm not asking Kobe to win a championship with that kind of cast. But if your really a top ten player all-time you are going to make your team relevant no matter who else is on the team. No playoff appearence, and two first round losses is not relevant.

LeBron is a nice example. His best teammate in 8 years of Cleveland was Mo Williams, a player that is WAY WORSE than Lamar Odom. His coach was Mike Brown, WAY WORSE than Phil Jackson.

Despite this LeBron had no problems winning 60+ games and making his team RELEVANT. He even convinced Vegas to make his Cavs the favorite over teams like Boston despite them having 4 of the top 5 players in the series. :oldlol: Thats the power of a real top ten player.

Kobe doesn't make his teammates better, nor does he do anything to win you the battle in the paint. You need the best coach of all-time combined with the best frontcourt in the league to win with him.

With real legends they can elevate the play of an otherwise ordinary franchise.

[bdreason]

Nobody is going to trade for Kobe and his $30 mil per year contract... coming off an achilles injury. :oldlol:

[fpliii]

TonyMontana - I'm not a Kobe stan, but I can't really blame his play for those years (he and Shaq both deserve blame for the feud/break up). I think Kobe's prime years probably spanned from 02-03 through 07-08. Those two were his best defensive (and perhaps best all-around) years. Had he achieved more of a balance on that end from 03-04 through 06-07, it might've helped his teams, but likely not. They didn't have scorers. While Kobe is an able passer and he can initiate an offense, his game is about scoring first to open up his teammates, not vice versa.

[kennethgriffin]

prime wilt, prime mj, prime shaq all wouldn't have won a playoff series with those 05,06,07 laker squads


they were some of the worst players ever after kobe/odom


chris mihm
chucky atkins
tierre brown
stanislav medvidenko
sasha vujacic
tony bobbit
kareem rush
smush parker
laron profit
von wafer
kwame brown
jordan farmar
?? common

[fpliii]

prime wilt, prime mj, prime shaq all wouldn't have won a playoff series with those 05,06,07 laker squads


they were some of the worst players ever after kobe/odom

Well a center like Wilt/Shaq could have. I don't know about Jordan.

[kennethgriffin]

Well a center like Wilt/Shaq could have. I don't know about Jordan.


no lol.. they wouldn't have

kobe averaged 35/5/5, dropped 81 in a game, 40ppg multiple months

so even with once every 2 decade type numbers being thrown around by 1 guy wasnt enough to get out of the 1st round. they came close. but the team was just too much of a sorry sack of nobodies

[TonyMontana]

TonyMontana - I'm not a Kobe stan, but I can't really blame his play for those years (he and Shaq both deserve blame for the feud/break up). I think Kobe's prime years probably spanned from 02-03 through 07-08. Those two were his best defensive (and perhaps best all-around) years. Had he achieved more of a balance on that end from 03-04 through 06-07, it might've helped his teams, but likely not. They didn't have scorers. While Kobe is an able passer and he can initiate an offense, his game is about scoring first to open up his teammates, not vice versa.

I'm not blaming Kobe either, Im just saying he wasn't good enough to get the job done.

Dominant Bigman make more of an impact on games than Kobe. They score almost as much as Kobe(on MUCH BETTER efficiency) while also protecting the rim, rebounding at an elite level, and making their teammates better. Dominant bigs are what wins.

LeBron is better too and it is reflected in how these guys can make their teams relevant no matter what. LeBron overcomes not being 7 feet tall, by being able to do everything else at an elite level. Score, rebound, post defense, perimeter defense, ball handling, faciliating. All at an elite level.


prime wilt, prime mj, prime shaq all wouldn't have won a playoff series with those 05,06,07 laker squads


they were some of the worst players ever after kobe/odom

Prime Shaq and Phil won a NBA CHAMPIONSHIP with Kobe averaging 15 PPG on 36% in that NBA championship series. A CHAMPIONSHIP

You are trying to tell me Prime Shaq and Phil wouldn't be able to win a single series in 3 years with 15 PPG-10 RPG Lamar Odom and 15 PPG Caron Butler?

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[AintNoSunshine]

5 hours?

[TonyMontana]

no lol.. they wouldn't have

kobe averaged 35/5/5, dropped 81 in a game, 40ppg multiple months

so even with once every 2 decade type numbers being thrown around by 1 guy wasnt enough to get out of the 1st round. they came close. but the team was just too much of a sorry sack of nobodies

The Lakers were up 3-1 on the Suns and choked. Including the famous Game 7 31 point loss where Kobe famously gave up on his teammates because he was so butthurt.

They were in a position to win, not just one oppurtunity to close the series, but 3.

[fpliii]

no lol.. they wouldn't have

kobe averaged 35/5/5, dropped 81 in a game, 40ppg multiple months

so even with once every 2 decade type numbers being thrown around by 1 guy wasnt enough to get out of the 1st round. they came close. but the team was just too much of a sorry sack of nobodies

Eh, to each his own but I strongly disagree. Kobe's a great, great player, but bigs present more matchup problems. If you're talking prime Wilt/Shaq (or a couple of other bigs, but not to the same extent), they're giving you the best chance to win. I don't think any guards (or many/any wings period) are going to win those series for you, but a handful of bigs might.

[fpliii]

I'm not blaming Kobe either, Im just saying he wasn't good enough to get the job done.

Dominant Bigman make more of an impact on games than Kobe. They score almost as much as Kobe(on MUCH BETTER efficiency) while also protecting the rim, rebounding at an elite level, and making their teammates better. Dominant bigs are what wins.

LeBron is better too and it is reflected in how these guys can make their teams relevant no matter what. LeBron overcomes not being 7 feet tall, by being able to do everything else at an elite level. Score, rebound, post defense, perimeter defense, ball handling, faciliating. All at an elite level.

I don't know if I'd say he wasn't good enough, but as you said guards are at a tremendous disadvantage. Scoring aside, the defense/rebounding are big. Smaller guys have to bring the ball up generally and are better ball-handlers, but I'll take a center over a comparable PG any day. This is NOT an indictment of Kobe, it just is what it is.

LeBron's a weird guy, but I think for all intents and purposes he's closer to being a big than not. Skilled players with size (LeBron, Bird, Magic, Pippen, Erving, etc.) create major matchup problems. If they're also giving you top-notch help defense, you're going to win multiple championships.

[disel]

wouldn't be surprised if he asked for an amnesty

[PickernRoller]

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-love-kobe-14.png

So, Kenny: you're playing Glastonbury!
[Chuckles] Yes I am. What's wrong with that picture? They showed me a photo of 250,000 people. Now, I've played to that number of people before, but it was a long time ago. They all knew my music and they were all my age, too. When they started talking about Glastonbury, I said, now wait a minute: I know the acts that play Glastonbury and that just does not sound like me. But I figured, somebody asked for me, so here I come. The rain? Nothing stops me.

What happened at Bonnaroo last year? The reviews of your set were incredible. (1)
They were! I was as shocked as you are. It was a weird thing. I think it was because I admitted right off the box, which I'll do at Glastonbury too, that I was way out of my comfort zone. You just have to do what you do and hope somebody knows what you're doing. I'm convinced that all these kids' parents played my music for them when they were young. I think that counts as child abuse, heh heh heh. So they kind of know it vicariously.

You've been inducted into the Country Music Hall Of Fame this year. I don't mean to be rude, but they took their time about that, didn't they?
Well, I'm glad it came now, rather than at the peak of my career. I think that, when you're in the fast lane, you don't take notes. I had so much going on in my life at that time. I almost would have expected it. They gave it to me now at a time when I can fully enjoy it. I have twin boys that are nine years old. I have a 46-year-old son and a 30-year-old son. So it'll be fun for me to share it with them and my wife, and really make it a family thing when we go. It's a huge honour and I don't want to belittle that, but I'm glad it happened now rather than then.

You're nearly 75 and you have nine-year-old twins. You must be knackered!
Someone needs to say a prayer for me! If I take them out individually, they're wonderful children. Polite, sweet, they do everything right. You take them out together, you have to rope 'em to keep 'em together. I've never seen anything like it. The difference in their personalities when they have each other to support them… it's wonderful but in a dangerous way.

Between songs, you're very funny onstage, almost like a comedian.
I went to see Ray Charles when I was about 12 years old and I think that's what made me want to get into the business. Everybody laughed at everything he said. They clapped for every song. It's never been important to me for people to leave my shows and say, "He's the best singer I've ever heard". But it's important that everyone leaves saying "I enjoyed that". I think that's probably one of the things that happened at Bonnaroo. The fact that I talked to people, having a mini-conversation. In amidst all these great bands, who got up there and played for four hours straight and never said anything. Incredible musicians, but I'm an entertainer.

You're huge in Jamaica. Why do you think that is?
I didn't know anything about it until I went there. We just assumed it was a show, until we got on the road and it took us four hours to get from our hotel to the concert venue because so many people were walking to the venue. I think they were all stoned, because they were walking real slow. Anyway, it was quite an experience out there. I got up there – and I never assume people know my music, the minute you assume that you're in trouble – and they knew every word. One of the most fun performances I've ever done. Jamaicans live music, they don't just listen to it. It was wonderful.

You've played jazz, psychedelic rock, pop, folk, and yet you always come back to country. What keeps drawing you back?
My mom used to listen to Hank Williams while she was ironing. A big pitcher of iced tea on the ironing board, Hank Williams on the radio, or Little Jimmy Dickins (2). That's what I was raised on. But I met a guy who invited me to play bass in his jazz group. I said: "I don't play bass". He said: "I'll teach you – there's more demand for bad bass players than bad guitarists." I spent 10 years in a very avant-garde jazz group. And then I joined the New Christy Minstrels (3), which was the ultimate in simplicity in music. It was through them I learned the power of a story-song about the problems of the people. From there, I went to the First Edition, who, with the exception of I Just Dropped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In), a psychedelic song, were country rock with a little pop flavour. And from there I made my way to Nashville.

Nashville is seen as a very conservative place, but you've never shied away from controversial subjects: Reuben James is about race, Coward Of The County is about rape.
That's what I think my strength in music is. I looked for two kinds of song when I started. Ballads that say what every man would like to say and every woman would like to hear: She Believes In Me, You Decorated My Life. And then I looked for socially significant, important songs. Reuben James was about a black man who raised a white child. Ruby Don't Take Your Love To Town is about a disabled Vietnam veteran, Coward Of The County as you said is about a rape. I love those types of songs.

[WayOfWade]

Well, at least the thread managed to stay on topic.

[PickernRoller]

Well, at least the thread managed to stay on topic.

This paper is on a very interesting and hi
ghly relevant topic. I very much like the
paper and I strongly support (and have enga
ged myself with) this kind of ideas and
work. However, I doubt whether the current
version is sufficiently informative and
convincing for a broader readership of social
psychologists. I tried to read the paper
with such an audience in mind.
The paper addresses many different issues
and questions, and also in a rather

[SamuraiSWISH]

The Lakers were up 3-1 on the Suns and choked. Including the famous Game 7 31 point loss where Kobe famously gave up on his teammates because he was so butthurt.
LeBron did the same thing, not in just one pouty half of a game 7 ... he did it in winnable series mid way through with multiple games left to be played. And he did it in consecutive seasons.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[9erempiree]

LeBron did the same thing, not in just one pouty half of a game 7 ... he did it in winnable series mid way through with multiple games left to be played. And he did it in consecutive seasons.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

You still getting laughed at on the other thread.

[Lakers2877]

You are telling me it is not a coincidence that LA missed the playoffs and lost in the first round twice in the 3 years prior to Gasol while they make the Finals 3 consecutive years(with 2 titles) as soon as they acquire him?

Your telling me the reason LA became a 3 year Finalist and two time champion is because Kobe suddenly got better?

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
I can't believe Kobe is the only star to need help winning titles. No other all time greats needed any help

I'm sure Jordan would gotten his 6 rings play with smush Parker, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown in the starting lineup

[INDI]

I'm not asking Kobe to win a championship with that kind of cast. But if your really a top ten player all-time you are going to make your team relevant no matter who else is on the team. No playoff appearence, and two first round losses is not relevant.

LeBron is a nice example. His best teammate in 8 years of Cleveland was Mo Williams, a player that is WAY WORSE than Lamar Odom. His coach was Mike Brown, WAY WORSE than Phil Jackson.

Despite this LeBron had no problems winning 60+ games and making his team RELEVANT. He even convinced Vegas to make his Cavs the favorite over teams like Boston despite them having 4 of the top 5 players in the series. :oldlol: Thats the power of a real top ten player.

Kobe doesn't make his teammates better, nor does he do anything to win you the battle in the paint. You need the best coach of all-time combined with the best frontcourt in the league to win with him.

With real legends they can elevate the play of an otherwise ordinary franchise.

There is a huge difference when your team is in the east instead of west. Kobe faced teams like spurs/mavs/suns (they were great during this time), playing these teams 3-4 times per year vs lebron playing (pistons/bucks/knicks kind of teams.

place lebrons cavs in the west and that alone would knock of at least 10 games my man.

[TonyMontana]

There is a huge difference when your team is in the east instead of west. Kobe faced teams like spurs/mavs/suns (they were great during this time), playing these teams 3-4 times per year vs lebron playing (pistons/bucks/knicks kind of teams.

place lebrons cavs in the west and that alone would knock of at least 10 games my man.

2007 Cavs: 50-32(.610)
Vs East: 31-21(.596)
Vs West: 19-10(.655)

2008 Cavs: 45-37 (.549)
Vs East: 28-24 (.538)
Vs West: 17-13 (.567)

2009 Cavs: 66-16(.805)
Vs East: 40-12(.769)
Vs West: 26-4(.867)

2010 Cavs: 61-21(.744)
Vs East: 38-14(.730)
Vs West: 23-7(.767)

Good try "my man", but the Cavs posted an EVEN BETTER record against the West every single year. If they got to play against the no defense playing West teams more often they would have won even more games.

[kennethgriffin]

Eh, to each his own but I strongly disagree. Kobe's a great, great player, but bigs present more matchup problems. If you're talking prime Wilt/Shaq (or a couple of other bigs, but not to the same extent), they're giving you the best chance to win. I don't think any guards (or many/any wings period) are going to win those series for you, but a handful of bigs might.


he dropped 81 on like 70% fg's and barely beat the raptors

the team sucked. to say shaq or wilt could have made these guys a playoff threat is a serious insult to kobe bryant

even wilt and shaq never averaged over 81ppg for a series... thats what they would have needed just to beat toronto in a playoff series with those scrubs.

[wakencdukest]

Kobe will retire a Laker. He's about done anyway after this achilles tear. There's no guarantee he'll ever be the same player, and Buss is stupid enough to pay him the very max to stay in LA, so he isn't going anywhere.